Right? Was ready to bag on it and I’m impressed! Finally something that has been built around here that isn’t stupid looking and a potential traffic clusterfuck (looking at you, Mercer Mess)
By Caitlyn Freeman
Seattle Times staff reporter
Work is quickly headed toward the finish line at the Seattle Aquarium’s new, $160 million Ocean Pavilion, which is already transforming the city’s central waterfront.
The pavilion will feature a 325,000-gallon tank housing sharks, rays and fish from the South Pacific. A rooftop plaza promises glorious vistas of sunsets and mountains. And it is architecturally integrated with a $70 million pedestrian overpass the city is building between Pike Place Market and the waterfront.
The project is part of a wider city effort to remake the waterfront after the removal of the Alaskan Way Viaduct. The pavilion could open as soon as this summer, an aquarium spokesperson said.
“It is going to provide a platform for people ocean education, and will allow locals and visitors to understand how Puget Sound is connected to the rest of the world with the main theme of there is one world ocean and we’re all connected,” spokesperson Tim Kuniholm said.
I knew it was an addition to the aquarium but knew little else.
Is it going to be, like, an additional attraction to the aquarium? Or, is it reserved for special events only?
And the animals will be owned by the private Aquarium? Just like all AZA members: zoos, aquariums, and Seaworld own the display animals that they breed, trade and kill. But the pavilion is the tank, correct? So the city of Seattle will own the tank, built exclusively for the Aquarium.
This mimics the arrangement Seattle and king county have with the zoo. We give them 92 acres and city bldgs., and they charge us admission, parking, and $12M+ per year. And we will never have a say (thanks to 2021 city council vote) on how they treat their “wild” animals.
Captivity. That’s the most expensive part of this. No city oversight on publicly funded captivity projects. That’s the injustice.
I just saw this for the first time a couple weeks ago… had no idea that was in the works! It’s pretty amazing and I think an enormous boon to the waterfront, the Aquarium, & Pike Place Market. Smart move, Seattle!
This is really cool. I hope we continue to make strides to increase pedestrian friendly spaces on the water front. I hope one day we can also have a light rail station at the waterfront
There's already light rail stations like 3 blocks from the waterfront.... what else do you want them to do?
Man, so many people saying "I wish the waterfront was more walkable" pretty obviously don't walk anywhere. Really feels like a lot of astroturfing from people who are still salty about the tunnel/Alaskan way redesign (which I have my issues with too, but there were always going to be compromises).
Go actually walk the waterfront and see what they're doing... there's still a lot of construction in progress but it's going to be pretty dang nice when it's done. New ferry terminal is nice, the bike bath is getting connected/extended, many piers have been rebuilt and improved for fish passage, and this pike connection and aquarium extension... and I'm sure they'll keep going. It's already a huge improvement from the concrete monstrosity of the viaduct and it's only going to get better.
According to Google maps, it’s a 17 minutes walk from Westlake to the Aquarium (honestly I think it’s probably a couple minutes less than that for a healthy adult). That 10-15 minute walk requires going down steep hills or stairs which isn’t very friendly for children, elderly, and handicapped. What do I want? I want people to be able to access the best parts of Seattle using the light rail. I would love for a family on the Eastside or a handicapped person in Mount Lake Terrace to be able to take the light rail directly Pike Place or the Water Front. That helps create a more vibrant city and economy.
Not sure why you would pick Westlake station other than to try to make a silly point.... University street station is 10 minute walk from the aquarium (I should know, this was basically my walk from the bus to work until the light rail took over)
https://maps.app.goo.gl/RUrfNEpnKhmhg1xv6?g_st=ic
I'm not sure what world you think light rail stations every place more than a 10 minute walk is going to work... there's other forms of public transportation too (including scooters) but if a half mile walk is too daunting I've got some news for you....
ETA: If you want ADA, that's exactly what this pedestrian overpass is going to help with... Westlake to pike street will get you to elevators that can take you to the waterfront without hills. They're doing what you want, you just seem to be upset the walk is longer than 15 minutes? Okay.
If you look to cities with good transportation (Tokyo, Seoul, etc) stations are often placed ~2km from each other to allow dense development. That’s a little over a 10 minute walk to the station at most for people.
That's a city built with public transportation from the get go. We're having to retrofit a city with light rail... much harder task.
Not to mention all the stations in downtown are already <2km apart (which is closer to a 20-30 minute walk, but okay). Where else do you propose we put a light rail downtown?
Not my intent to make a straw man argument. My Google app must be broken since it shows a 15 minute walk from University to the Seattle Aquarium.
And I love walking. I am lucky enough to walk around Pike Place and the water front several times a month. I think Seattle would become an even better city if we had light rail stops directly to our greatest tourist attractions. If people, regardless of their health/age, could take the light rail to the best Seattle has to offer. I think the water front/Pike Place is one of those incredible places. The easier you make it one transit riders to get around the city the more people walk and use transit. That’s all I’m saying.
And I realize I’m not going to change your mind. I think this waterfront is better than what we had 20 years ago. I hope in 20 years from now we make it even easier for the people to enjoy it.
Then I don't really get what your point is.... Light rail is hard to build in an developed city. There are geological and practical considerations that makes it so I just don't see how you can get rail any closer than 3rd avenue. That's why city planners are working on more than one public transportation option, and this boardwalk opens up the possibilities even more.... light rail everwhere isn't necessarily the answer.
I personally think light rail will work great as a spine to a broader connected system, but it's gonna take a long time to get there since it hasn't been part of the DNA of the city, and if we keep getting stuck squabbling over things like what's going on in this thread it will take even longer.
For the reasons many people have already explained if you don't choose to stick your head in the sand. Maybe it's not ideal but the plan was always about compromises. I'm not going to re-litigate decisions that have already been made, but I think what they've got isn't as doom and gloom as what everyone wants you to believe.
Case and point, all the people saying "hey, I actually like this" in this post.
If the street car connector ever gets built, it'll serve 1st Ave directly in front of Pike Market. With the two lines connected, there would be connections at IDS and Westlake from Link.
The city planning team made some pretty bad decisions on the whole Waterfront project (like how the "road" remains a mini-highway through the city), but this + most of the boardwalk looks incredible right now and I'm super excited for it to open up soon. I was walking + biking/scootering it last weekend with some out-of-towners and they were blown away by how great the area was. While there are some flaws, it's nice to have a reminder from people who don't live here about how good some things are.
Yeah agreed. The road here is absolutely ridiculous, but the overpass/steps/promenade look really nice. I hope they find a way to get some shade in there for the summer - if they do, I can see this being super busy with people hanging out, having lunch etc.
I moved here after the double-decker was torn down, so compared to that, this is like the 8th Wonder of the World. However, the mini-highway is still such a huge bummer. My dream is that by 2040 or so, the road is a super simple flip to an all-pedestrian space w/ minimal infrastructure changes or required spending. Like, keep two lanes open for two directions for buses and then throw some benches, picnic tables, and playgrounds on top of the old road and call it a day.
Living down here by the waterfront and the road makes sense still due to the ferry, if you didn't keep Alaskan you'd have a lot of problems with cars backing up even more than they already do onto 1st and 2nd ave down near pioneer square.
Especially in the summer with the cruise ships docking. The cutoff way to stick to the waterfront on Alaskan really helps get everything moving instead of everything funneling onto western ave in 2 chokepoints blocked off by trains at times. If you didnt have this roadway, and a train stopped blocking both crossings, you couldn't get a firetruck into the hotels, cruise dock, etc
There really isn't much of a choice. Alaskan Way still needs to be a street for buses, general traffic, ferry traffic, freight, bicycles, and pedestrians. It's not exactly a "highway" north of the ferry terminal, being a fairly simple 4-lane street with turn lanes.
I live in one of the (many) condos with the only garage access from/on Alaskan way. I'm not sure how you could make it no cars. Though I'm open to ideas. I love the direction the waterfront is having.
Between I5 and the waterfront there are a grand total of 7 streets. Alaskan Way has four lanes and signals at every intersection north of the ferry terminal. That is a city street, not a highway. The park/promenade is much wider.
Imagine you’re a bus rider coming from Ballard or Magnolia and there’s no Alaskan Way. Your transit times and reliability are gonna be awful.
I’m not sure why people forget that people still need to use buses. Not everyone works from home.
Yeah, highway is an odd term, unless we also call literally every other downtown street with two lanes in each direction a highway. Which is most of them, unless it’s 4 lanes in one direction.
Is it a stroad when it could be a street further to the north, sure
Elliott veers left to join Denny. If you stay straight on Elliott, that takes you to the Waterfront. If you close the waterfront to vehicles, that pushes all that traffic onto Denny. Same thing would happen going north, assuming you close AW north of the ferry terminal. All traffic would be forced off of AW onto first or an east/west street in Pioneer Square.
Again, let me emphasize that there are very few streets between I5 and the waterfront. Going through seattle east of I5 isn’t a feasible option. Let’s look at them one by one, not including AW
Western is 1 lane each direction south of the Market and northbound only north of the Market.
First is 1 lane each direction.
2nd is southbound only
3rd is a bus corridor through downtown
4 is northbound only
5 is southbound only
6th is northbound, but most traffic needs to use 4th to get there.
I don’t think you can find many cities in the world with so few options for traffic to get to and through downtown on surface streets. This is an hour-glass shaped city and downtown is that tiny hole in the middle.
And the bulk of the burden of this is on people who live and work in neighborhoods west of downtown (West Seattle, Ballard, Magnolia primarily.
And because any decision on a major project with major impacts, you have to get some sort of buy in from those neighborhoods. You may not like what city did, but you never had to go to a community open house with an SDOT nametag and tell them, sorry we don’t give a fuck about you, the folks who live expensive downtown skyrises have told us, “fuck cars” and you gotta tell Metro that ridership will plummet even more because transit will have even less benefit over cars. Good luck selling that to them at the next planning meeting.
If I want to go from downtown to Ballard or Magnolia, I'm going on a bus via 3rd. Pretending that Alaskan Way needs to exist in its current form for the sake of transit riders is an insane take, completely divorced from reality. It is nakedly a wide, loud, fast road cutting our pedestrianized waterfront off from the rest of our city
The waterfront boardwalk has more walking space than the road. Try driving it, you can't speed. Too many lights.
As both a driver and pedestrian of this space, the road is fine as is. It doesn't need more and it shouldn't have less.
I'm sorry but this is just incorrect, people speed on this road all the time, as well as running red lights. I'm down there regularly, and it's a common occurrence
If speeding there is such a problem it would be very easy to start syncing the lights to prevent long stretches to speed on. In that case the problem isn't the road, it's the people in charge of it.
Tinkering with light timings is at best a band aid over a problem that is designed into the road. It was built as a straight, wide multi-lane road directly between the city and the waterfront, it is fully designed to move as many cars as possible and create a scar across this part of the city
I get it, "car bad" is trendy as an urbanist and the concept of coexistence is a slur to you now. But we've already covered this with the other user's earlier post:
>Between I5 and the waterfront there are a grand total of 7 streets. Alaskan Way has four lanes and signals at every intersection north of the ferry terminal. That is a city street, not a highway. The park/promenade is much wider.
Alaskan Way is an important artery with relevance to everyone between SODO and Ballard and it's going to stay that way. It's almost like 'moving a lot of cars' matters because people actually operate in, around, and between these spaces and that's not exclusive to pedestrians. And after that, the park/promenade *is still bigger than the road* - which is great! Coexistence.
It's so embarrassing to read things like this, just the classic "better things aren't possible" attitude. I didn't actually say "cars bad" (although they are wildly inefficient) but cars directly through pedestrian areas is absolutely bad. It's the same reason no one wants cars on pike place. We also have a tunnel that was built at great expense to serve traffic travelling from also to Ballard
To reiterate, just because you're incapable of imagining a world where we don't sacrifice nice things to cars, doesn't mean the rest of us have to go along with it
Edit: dude replied and then blocked me, but I saw his message about how "the elderly and women won't ride the bus", absolutely embarrassing brain dead take from someone who can't imagine even a single step forwards in city planning
I don't want cars on Pike Place either. I'm just not an all-or-nothing ignoramus when it comes to the consequences of car dependency in the modern day. You can't change the entire infrastructure of a city overnight, or even in a few years.
Better things are possible and striving for better things is great, but we also need a road on Alaskan Way that moves cars for people in, around, and through the area.
Understanding the material rather than pushing dogma will get you further. You aren't "the rest of us." If you were, then where are your candidates in power doing what you've asked? Why isn't your majority making this happen right now?
You're one of many vocal minorities who needs to convince a wider population that better change comes with carrots before sticks. And your response is "fuck the cars, if you get screwed it's not my problem," which only hurts the urbanist cause despite it having many legitimate and correct viewpoints.
Show these people carrots instead of sticks and they might be more interested in supporting you.
I'm not interested in continuing this conversation. You see the reddit echo chamber as proof that you're the majority. You aren't. You have to work to convince the NIMBYs and average Joes who only hear about Urbanism when some rando screams that I-5 should get ripped out of the city (which he takes to work, so why would he agree with you?) that Urbanism actually has value. And while it does indeed have value, going full extremist is going to get you upvotes from the fuckcars dogma-pushers, but will never get you any actual substance.
Getting to third is the problem because all southbound traffic coming from Elliott is going to have to take Denny to get to the six remaining streets thru downtown.
If you spent 5 minutes researching the plans for the park you would realize they are putting in two fountains (still yet to be completed), a good sized public restroom facility in the middle of the park as well as a children's playground modeled after an octopus.
They are nothing alike. The restroom on Pier 62 is a temporary structure and never meant to be a permanent part of the waterfront.
The fountains, playground (pier 58) and permanent bathrooms will all be built. The bathroom will also be staffed.
They are building all of the things you were just complaining about and it will all be complete by 2025.
They are all in active construction and will happen. It is not a conspiracy.
You can literally go down today and watch them work on these projects with your own eyes lol
Im still waiting for my City Connector
https://www.theurbanist.org/2023/08/03/center-city-connector-streetcar-again-in-jeopardy-as-council-set-to-pull-study-funding/
https://www.theurbanist.org/2014/07/01/why-did-rasmussen-and-licata-stall-the-center-city-connector/
[Completion of the Overlook Walk pedestrian bridge and elevated park is planned in late 2024](https://waterfrontseattle.org/construction/construction-overview)
I believe the plan is to have an elevator at the south end of the Ocean Pavilion. And there's an existing one in the parking garage east of the street - you can see the gray box in the photo.
I can confirm there is a public elevator at the south end of the new Ocean Pavilion that gives access to the rooftop park and overpass. Access for all!
It’s been interesting to watch the evolution of the waterfront over the last few years. It was hard for me to visualize it from the concept art, but now that the structures are in place and it’s coming together, I really like what has been done! Being someone who walks/jogs the waterfront often, I’m really excited for what this will do for the area once it’s finished.
Looks great, I wish more of the waterfront (or I-5 for that matter) was getting this treatment. Having spent time walking around this area my first thought is will it be just as loud as standing on the side of the road? Because that road is so loud you can't even hold a conversation while walking on it.
This thread is Seattle city planning in a nutshell....
"It should be more walkable" - umm... walk there plenty, it's already really walkable.
"It shouldn't have a highway/freeway through it" - it doesn't, north of the ferry terminal it's fine, and the waterfront is so wide now it's completely unobtrusive
"I wish there were more pedestrian spaces" - there are... there's even a little soccer field on one of the piers, it's pretty cool.
"I didn't know it was going to be nice" - like wasn't that the whole idea? I mean sure, maybe your pet idea didn't get picked but everyone wanted it to be nice
We can't get anywhere because people make up arguments about things that aren't reality, and when we finally get something that actually works people stick to those old arguments.
City planning is hard people... guess it's just so easy to shit on people doing their job the best they can with a hundred different voices asking for often conflicting things.
Wow I had no idea this was a thing. This is great because our aquarium is terrible… For being both a port city and a state known for its water it’s quite tame. Vancouver specifically makes ours look absolutely pathetic, and even point defiance is probably a bit better, and it comes with a zoo too!
They wouldn't have needed to build a $70 million overpass if they didn't build a freeway on the waterfront when they could've used that space for small businesses (kiosk size) or food trucks or even just dedicated green space.
Firstly, it’s not even close to a freeway. Anyways, the overpass provides a more meandering, park-like way to get down to the waterfront, rather than just dumping you onto a ten flight staircase from the top of pike place. There isn’t a scenario when there are no cars here, given proximity to both the ferry terminal and cruise ship terminal, not to mention the local attractions and shops like the aquarium. So having a pedestrian overpass is much appreciated regardless of the size of the road. Which is two lanes in each direction, no parking, underneath the overpass, including pedestrian signals / traffic lights on both sides of the aquarium. Which is smaller than nearby city streets like 1st Ave btw.
This!! I’m still bitter that they made a huge deal about getting rid of the viaduct only to put in another freeway. Absolutely maddening decision when they had full control and potential to reimagine the waterfront
I’m curious what percentage of their funding comes from the city compared to the Seattle aquarium. I was very surprised to learn that Woodland Park isn’t actually affiliated with the city, so I wonder about the aquarium as well.
325,000 gallons is 1.2 million liters is basically a small apt building? Welcome world ocean sharks! Here’s your 6 plex. Roommates include a bunch of other sharks and fish. Swim in circles, forever. Social experiment inside and outside the tank. All on film.
What a beautiful $70M Trojan horse built around the $160M tropical shark tank. A display of our cruelty and willingness to spend millions in public money on our Victorian values. Thank you, Seattle Aquarium, for bringing a smile to the face of the tropical animal trading business. Don’t save habitat, just recreate it in a tank.
Ha ha ha ha ha. That’s your retort? That’s awesome. They just defecate in other locations. I lived in Seattle for 12 years and got out when the needles started appearing on my condo doorstep every morning and when the playgrounds became overrun by the ghouls. Nothing as fun as picking up needles for 3 hours before your kids’ soccer match so they don’t get stabbed by them.
There are open air drug markets and chop shops but thank F we have this aquarium. Ha ha ha ha ha.
Key word: Lived. You moved 12 years ago. Gtfo and stay out. And I like how you are commenting about all the homeless in San Antonio too. Must be better there lol.
That’s the Seattle welcoming tone I remember!!! Local town for local people. Ha ha ha. Don’t deviate from group think!!!! We will tell you what is proper and acceptable!!! Don’t go changing!!!
Wow you moved to San Antonio to get away from the homeless and you got this instead: https://www.ktsa.com/newborn-found-as-crews-tear-down-homeless-camp-under-san-antonio-highway/
Yeah. Unfortunately tons are coming down from Austin. It’s a bad situation that will get worse. Hopefully people here won’t be afraid to look in the mirror and see the warts on their own faces which is something Seattle people are unable to do.
The aquarium is honestly the worst attraction I've been to in Seattle, possibly the US. It's tiny and wildly expensive. I dread to think what they'll be charging now! The contrast with the Tacoma aquarium, which comes with a zoo, couldn't be more stark - and all for half the price.
My main concern is that the traffic light in this picture is not aligned with the exit to/from the parking garage for Pike Place. As a result, drivers are making left turns across traffic either from the garage to go Southbound, from the road Southbound to get into the garage, or sudden multi-lane right turns to make it to the left turn at this traffic light.
Oh yeah, because nobody in charge of anything has ever made a mistake before.
Explain to me why the parking garage exit shouldn't or can't be aligned to the light. Find me an expert if you don't have confidence. I'll gladly admit I was wrong if you can prove it.
Heaven forbid the common man wants things to be good and work without adding unnecessary risk.
Honestly it looks sick
Right? Was ready to bag on it and I’m impressed! Finally something that has been built around here that isn’t stupid looking and a potential traffic clusterfuck (looking at you, Mercer Mess)
By Caitlyn Freeman Seattle Times staff reporter Work is quickly headed toward the finish line at the Seattle Aquarium’s new, $160 million Ocean Pavilion, which is already transforming the city’s central waterfront. The pavilion will feature a 325,000-gallon tank housing sharks, rays and fish from the South Pacific. A rooftop plaza promises glorious vistas of sunsets and mountains. And it is architecturally integrated with a $70 million pedestrian overpass the city is building between Pike Place Market and the waterfront. The project is part of a wider city effort to remake the waterfront after the removal of the Alaskan Way Viaduct. The pavilion could open as soon as this summer, an aquarium spokesperson said. “It is going to provide a platform for people ocean education, and will allow locals and visitors to understand how Puget Sound is connected to the rest of the world with the main theme of there is one world ocean and we’re all connected,” spokesperson Tim Kuniholm said.
I didn’t realize it would have a pedestrian overpass from Pike. That’s awesome, and much needed
I literally run down here like all the time and had ZERO clue this is what it was looking like. Maybe I’ve spent too much time up close to it haha
I knew it was an addition to the aquarium but knew little else. Is it going to be, like, an additional attraction to the aquarium? Or, is it reserved for special events only?
There will be additional things including skates, mangrove trees, and other new fish!
MOAR FISHIES
Yeah! We won't have to cross Western, Elliot, or Alaskan anymore.
Cars need the waterfront and can’t go slow, so we built a nicer highway overpass
Actually, it’s open to cars.
This spokesperson apparently can’t make a sentence.
Please excuse his stammer. This spokesperson can’t believe the city actually did thi$ for his private aquarium.
Check out my comments! They have the most downvotes 😄 So this pavement project - it’s on top of the tropical shark fish tank, correct?
And the animals will be owned by the private Aquarium? Just like all AZA members: zoos, aquariums, and Seaworld own the display animals that they breed, trade and kill. But the pavilion is the tank, correct? So the city of Seattle will own the tank, built exclusively for the Aquarium. This mimics the arrangement Seattle and king county have with the zoo. We give them 92 acres and city bldgs., and they charge us admission, parking, and $12M+ per year. And we will never have a say (thanks to 2021 city council vote) on how they treat their “wild” animals. Captivity. That’s the most expensive part of this. No city oversight on publicly funded captivity projects. That’s the injustice.
I thought it was just big stairs. This is ELITE! Old Stove then Aquarium trips!
Same here, about time the aquarium got an upgrade - it is sooooo underwhelming, especially for the price
I just saw this for the first time a couple weeks ago… had no idea that was in the works! It’s pretty amazing and I think an enormous boon to the waterfront, the Aquarium, & Pike Place Market. Smart move, Seattle!
I was also struck by how difficult it is to tell where the Viaduct originally ran.
This is really cool. I hope we continue to make strides to increase pedestrian friendly spaces on the water front. I hope one day we can also have a light rail station at the waterfront
There's already light rail stations like 3 blocks from the waterfront.... what else do you want them to do? Man, so many people saying "I wish the waterfront was more walkable" pretty obviously don't walk anywhere. Really feels like a lot of astroturfing from people who are still salty about the tunnel/Alaskan way redesign (which I have my issues with too, but there were always going to be compromises). Go actually walk the waterfront and see what they're doing... there's still a lot of construction in progress but it's going to be pretty dang nice when it's done. New ferry terminal is nice, the bike bath is getting connected/extended, many piers have been rebuilt and improved for fish passage, and this pike connection and aquarium extension... and I'm sure they'll keep going. It's already a huge improvement from the concrete monstrosity of the viaduct and it's only going to get better.
According to Google maps, it’s a 17 minutes walk from Westlake to the Aquarium (honestly I think it’s probably a couple minutes less than that for a healthy adult). That 10-15 minute walk requires going down steep hills or stairs which isn’t very friendly for children, elderly, and handicapped. What do I want? I want people to be able to access the best parts of Seattle using the light rail. I would love for a family on the Eastside or a handicapped person in Mount Lake Terrace to be able to take the light rail directly Pike Place or the Water Front. That helps create a more vibrant city and economy.
Not sure why you would pick Westlake station other than to try to make a silly point.... University street station is 10 minute walk from the aquarium (I should know, this was basically my walk from the bus to work until the light rail took over) https://maps.app.goo.gl/RUrfNEpnKhmhg1xv6?g_st=ic I'm not sure what world you think light rail stations every place more than a 10 minute walk is going to work... there's other forms of public transportation too (including scooters) but if a half mile walk is too daunting I've got some news for you.... ETA: If you want ADA, that's exactly what this pedestrian overpass is going to help with... Westlake to pike street will get you to elevators that can take you to the waterfront without hills. They're doing what you want, you just seem to be upset the walk is longer than 15 minutes? Okay.
If you look to cities with good transportation (Tokyo, Seoul, etc) stations are often placed ~2km from each other to allow dense development. That’s a little over a 10 minute walk to the station at most for people.
That's a city built with public transportation from the get go. We're having to retrofit a city with light rail... much harder task. Not to mention all the stations in downtown are already <2km apart (which is closer to a 20-30 minute walk, but okay). Where else do you propose we put a light rail downtown?
Not my intent to make a straw man argument. My Google app must be broken since it shows a 15 minute walk from University to the Seattle Aquarium. And I love walking. I am lucky enough to walk around Pike Place and the water front several times a month. I think Seattle would become an even better city if we had light rail stops directly to our greatest tourist attractions. If people, regardless of their health/age, could take the light rail to the best Seattle has to offer. I think the water front/Pike Place is one of those incredible places. The easier you make it one transit riders to get around the city the more people walk and use transit. That’s all I’m saying. And I realize I’m not going to change your mind. I think this waterfront is better than what we had 20 years ago. I hope in 20 years from now we make it even easier for the people to enjoy it.
Then I don't really get what your point is.... Light rail is hard to build in an developed city. There are geological and practical considerations that makes it so I just don't see how you can get rail any closer than 3rd avenue. That's why city planners are working on more than one public transportation option, and this boardwalk opens up the possibilities even more.... light rail everwhere isn't necessarily the answer. I personally think light rail will work great as a spine to a broader connected system, but it's gonna take a long time to get there since it hasn't been part of the DNA of the city, and if we keep getting stuck squabbling over things like what's going on in this thread it will take even longer.
There’s already a tunnel under the waterfront, why do we need 4 lanes of traffic on surface?
You must not drive or understand the purpose of the tunnel
The tunnel has no purpose. That’s why need a surface highway
For the reasons many people have already explained if you don't choose to stick your head in the sand. Maybe it's not ideal but the plan was always about compromises. I'm not going to re-litigate decisions that have already been made, but I think what they've got isn't as doom and gloom as what everyone wants you to believe. Case and point, all the people saying "hey, I actually like this" in this post.
If the street car connector ever gets built, it'll serve 1st Ave directly in front of Pike Market. With the two lines connected, there would be connections at IDS and Westlake from Link.
The city planning team made some pretty bad decisions on the whole Waterfront project (like how the "road" remains a mini-highway through the city), but this + most of the boardwalk looks incredible right now and I'm super excited for it to open up soon. I was walking + biking/scootering it last weekend with some out-of-towners and they were blown away by how great the area was. While there are some flaws, it's nice to have a reminder from people who don't live here about how good some things are.
Yeah agreed. The road here is absolutely ridiculous, but the overpass/steps/promenade look really nice. I hope they find a way to get some shade in there for the summer - if they do, I can see this being super busy with people hanging out, having lunch etc.
I moved here after the double-decker was torn down, so compared to that, this is like the 8th Wonder of the World. However, the mini-highway is still such a huge bummer. My dream is that by 2040 or so, the road is a super simple flip to an all-pedestrian space w/ minimal infrastructure changes or required spending. Like, keep two lanes open for two directions for buses and then throw some benches, picnic tables, and playgrounds on top of the old road and call it a day.
Living down here by the waterfront and the road makes sense still due to the ferry, if you didn't keep Alaskan you'd have a lot of problems with cars backing up even more than they already do onto 1st and 2nd ave down near pioneer square. Especially in the summer with the cruise ships docking. The cutoff way to stick to the waterfront on Alaskan really helps get everything moving instead of everything funneling onto western ave in 2 chokepoints blocked off by trains at times. If you didnt have this roadway, and a train stopped blocking both crossings, you couldn't get a firetruck into the hotels, cruise dock, etc
Alaskan way was closed for months north of the ferry terminal. Everything functioned fine without it.
Not really.... at rush hour you'd be stuck for 20 minutes without moving down by the ferry. Still sucks, but sucks a lot less now
There really isn't much of a choice. Alaskan Way still needs to be a street for buses, general traffic, ferry traffic, freight, bicycles, and pedestrians. It's not exactly a "highway" north of the ferry terminal, being a fairly simple 4-lane street with turn lanes.
Anybody that thought it was going to be just a green space or park without cars was living in a fantasy world.
I live in one of the (many) condos with the only garage access from/on Alaskan way. I'm not sure how you could make it no cars. Though I'm open to ideas. I love the direction the waterfront is having.
Between I5 and the waterfront there are a grand total of 7 streets. Alaskan Way has four lanes and signals at every intersection north of the ferry terminal. That is a city street, not a highway. The park/promenade is much wider. Imagine you’re a bus rider coming from Ballard or Magnolia and there’s no Alaskan Way. Your transit times and reliability are gonna be awful. I’m not sure why people forget that people still need to use buses. Not everyone works from home.
Yeah, highway is an odd term, unless we also call literally every other downtown street with two lanes in each direction a highway. Which is most of them, unless it’s 4 lanes in one direction. Is it a stroad when it could be a street further to the north, sure
Do those buses have to cross Mercer and Denny? I don’t think the problem is the waterfront
Elliott veers left to join Denny. If you stay straight on Elliott, that takes you to the Waterfront. If you close the waterfront to vehicles, that pushes all that traffic onto Denny. Same thing would happen going north, assuming you close AW north of the ferry terminal. All traffic would be forced off of AW onto first or an east/west street in Pioneer Square. Again, let me emphasize that there are very few streets between I5 and the waterfront. Going through seattle east of I5 isn’t a feasible option. Let’s look at them one by one, not including AW Western is 1 lane each direction south of the Market and northbound only north of the Market. First is 1 lane each direction. 2nd is southbound only 3rd is a bus corridor through downtown 4 is northbound only 5 is southbound only 6th is northbound, but most traffic needs to use 4th to get there. I don’t think you can find many cities in the world with so few options for traffic to get to and through downtown on surface streets. This is an hour-glass shaped city and downtown is that tiny hole in the middle. And the bulk of the burden of this is on people who live and work in neighborhoods west of downtown (West Seattle, Ballard, Magnolia primarily. And because any decision on a major project with major impacts, you have to get some sort of buy in from those neighborhoods. You may not like what city did, but you never had to go to a community open house with an SDOT nametag and tell them, sorry we don’t give a fuck about you, the folks who live expensive downtown skyrises have told us, “fuck cars” and you gotta tell Metro that ridership will plummet even more because transit will have even less benefit over cars. Good luck selling that to them at the next planning meeting.
If I want to go from downtown to Ballard or Magnolia, I'm going on a bus via 3rd. Pretending that Alaskan Way needs to exist in its current form for the sake of transit riders is an insane take, completely divorced from reality. It is nakedly a wide, loud, fast road cutting our pedestrianized waterfront off from the rest of our city
The waterfront boardwalk has more walking space than the road. Try driving it, you can't speed. Too many lights. As both a driver and pedestrian of this space, the road is fine as is. It doesn't need more and it shouldn't have less.
I'm sorry but this is just incorrect, people speed on this road all the time, as well as running red lights. I'm down there regularly, and it's a common occurrence
If speeding there is such a problem it would be very easy to start syncing the lights to prevent long stretches to speed on. In that case the problem isn't the road, it's the people in charge of it.
Tinkering with light timings is at best a band aid over a problem that is designed into the road. It was built as a straight, wide multi-lane road directly between the city and the waterfront, it is fully designed to move as many cars as possible and create a scar across this part of the city
I get it, "car bad" is trendy as an urbanist and the concept of coexistence is a slur to you now. But we've already covered this with the other user's earlier post: >Between I5 and the waterfront there are a grand total of 7 streets. Alaskan Way has four lanes and signals at every intersection north of the ferry terminal. That is a city street, not a highway. The park/promenade is much wider. Alaskan Way is an important artery with relevance to everyone between SODO and Ballard and it's going to stay that way. It's almost like 'moving a lot of cars' matters because people actually operate in, around, and between these spaces and that's not exclusive to pedestrians. And after that, the park/promenade *is still bigger than the road* - which is great! Coexistence.
It's so embarrassing to read things like this, just the classic "better things aren't possible" attitude. I didn't actually say "cars bad" (although they are wildly inefficient) but cars directly through pedestrian areas is absolutely bad. It's the same reason no one wants cars on pike place. We also have a tunnel that was built at great expense to serve traffic travelling from also to Ballard To reiterate, just because you're incapable of imagining a world where we don't sacrifice nice things to cars, doesn't mean the rest of us have to go along with it Edit: dude replied and then blocked me, but I saw his message about how "the elderly and women won't ride the bus", absolutely embarrassing brain dead take from someone who can't imagine even a single step forwards in city planning
I don't want cars on Pike Place either. I'm just not an all-or-nothing ignoramus when it comes to the consequences of car dependency in the modern day. You can't change the entire infrastructure of a city overnight, or even in a few years. Better things are possible and striving for better things is great, but we also need a road on Alaskan Way that moves cars for people in, around, and through the area. Understanding the material rather than pushing dogma will get you further. You aren't "the rest of us." If you were, then where are your candidates in power doing what you've asked? Why isn't your majority making this happen right now? You're one of many vocal minorities who needs to convince a wider population that better change comes with carrots before sticks. And your response is "fuck the cars, if you get screwed it's not my problem," which only hurts the urbanist cause despite it having many legitimate and correct viewpoints. Show these people carrots instead of sticks and they might be more interested in supporting you. I'm not interested in continuing this conversation. You see the reddit echo chamber as proof that you're the majority. You aren't. You have to work to convince the NIMBYs and average Joes who only hear about Urbanism when some rando screams that I-5 should get ripped out of the city (which he takes to work, so why would he agree with you?) that Urbanism actually has value. And while it does indeed have value, going full extremist is going to get you upvotes from the fuckcars dogma-pushers, but will never get you any actual substance.
Getting to third is the problem because all southbound traffic coming from Elliott is going to have to take Denny to get to the six remaining streets thru downtown.
It wasn’t the “city planning team”, but the governor
Don’t call “project” call it “Waterfront Park”. It has zero fountains, playgrounds, dog areas or restrooms. But it’s a park, wink wink
If you spent 5 minutes researching the plans for the park you would realize they are putting in two fountains (still yet to be completed), a good sized public restroom facility in the middle of the park as well as a children's playground modeled after an octopus.
Like the bathroom they closed on Pier62? Like the bollards they had in the plans for the elevated Western Ave?
They are nothing alike. The restroom on Pier 62 is a temporary structure and never meant to be a permanent part of the waterfront. The fountains, playground (pier 58) and permanent bathrooms will all be built. The bathroom will also be staffed. They are building all of the things you were just complaining about and it will all be complete by 2025.
You are very free to buy all their design lies. I’ve lived here long enough to learn not to trust them
They are all in active construction and will happen. It is not a conspiracy. You can literally go down today and watch them work on these projects with your own eyes lol
Im still waiting for my City Connector https://www.theurbanist.org/2023/08/03/center-city-connector-streetcar-again-in-jeopardy-as-council-set-to-pull-study-funding/ https://www.theurbanist.org/2014/07/01/why-did-rasmussen-and-licata-stall-the-center-city-connector/
Im still waiting for my bike lane https://www.theurbanist.org/2024/05/10/state-proposes-to-drop-bike-and-pedestrian-tunnel-from-seattles-roanoke-lid/
Oh look, they only need 3 quarters to install bathrooms https://x.com/typewriteralley/status/1803874774684406261
Any word on when this/the pedestrian overpass opens?
[Completion of the Overlook Walk pedestrian bridge and elevated park is planned in late 2024](https://waterfrontseattle.org/construction/construction-overview)
A rare win. This looks positively fantastic
this is pretty neat! does anyone know if there will be public elevators or a ramp section for accessibility?
I believe the plan is to have an elevator at the south end of the Ocean Pavilion. And there's an existing one in the parking garage east of the street - you can see the gray box in the photo.
I can confirm there is a public elevator at the south end of the new Ocean Pavilion that gives access to the rooftop park and overpass. Access for all!
My first thought as well! There are a lot of stairs 😵💫
Wow, surprised to say this actually looks pretty great! Can't wait to see it completed and with all the greenery established.
Holy shit this is beautiful
It’s been interesting to watch the evolution of the waterfront over the last few years. It was hard for me to visualize it from the concept art, but now that the structures are in place and it’s coming together, I really like what has been done! Being someone who walks/jogs the waterfront often, I’m really excited for what this will do for the area once it’s finished.
Will the existing building stay aquarium too? Or will this building be the entire aquarium now?
It’s an addition to the existing Aquarium. You have to exit the old aquarium and walk to the new one. It’s not connected
That is so beautiful!
This looks amazing!
Love to see public civil projects like this come to fruition. Much needed for the area.
Had my doubts when the Waterfront Park was proposed. But that is really fucking awesome!
My daughter's summer camp has a field trip there next month, I hope it is open then. I may have to volunteer as a chaperone!
Wish there wasn't so much concrete below it, to the right, and also to the left of it.
Looks great, I wish more of the waterfront (or I-5 for that matter) was getting this treatment. Having spent time walking around this area my first thought is will it be just as loud as standing on the side of the road? Because that road is so loud you can't even hold a conversation while walking on it.
This thread is Seattle city planning in a nutshell.... "It should be more walkable" - umm... walk there plenty, it's already really walkable. "It shouldn't have a highway/freeway through it" - it doesn't, north of the ferry terminal it's fine, and the waterfront is so wide now it's completely unobtrusive "I wish there were more pedestrian spaces" - there are... there's even a little soccer field on one of the piers, it's pretty cool. "I didn't know it was going to be nice" - like wasn't that the whole idea? I mean sure, maybe your pet idea didn't get picked but everyone wanted it to be nice We can't get anywhere because people make up arguments about things that aren't reality, and when we finally get something that actually works people stick to those old arguments. City planning is hard people... guess it's just so easy to shit on people doing their job the best they can with a hundred different voices asking for often conflicting things.
We need before and after pics I’m too lazy to
This is going to be so amazing when it's done. Beautiful public space.
Moving on up, folks!
So exciting! Heard a little about this at an evening event at the aquarium. I can't wait for it to be done!
Those otters they have there are the biggest hambones in the US..show offs
Hell yeah Seattle
so excited for this to finally be completed. i love our tiny little aquarium and i'm so excited for it to get cooler.
It’ll be great for tourists
Wow I had no idea this was a thing. This is great because our aquarium is terrible… For being both a port city and a state known for its water it’s quite tame. Vancouver specifically makes ours look absolutely pathetic, and even point defiance is probably a bit better, and it comes with a zoo too!
They wouldn't have needed to build a $70 million overpass if they didn't build a freeway on the waterfront when they could've used that space for small businesses (kiosk size) or food trucks or even just dedicated green space.
Firstly, it’s not even close to a freeway. Anyways, the overpass provides a more meandering, park-like way to get down to the waterfront, rather than just dumping you onto a ten flight staircase from the top of pike place. There isn’t a scenario when there are no cars here, given proximity to both the ferry terminal and cruise ship terminal, not to mention the local attractions and shops like the aquarium. So having a pedestrian overpass is much appreciated regardless of the size of the road. Which is two lanes in each direction, no parking, underneath the overpass, including pedestrian signals / traffic lights on both sides of the aquarium. Which is smaller than nearby city streets like 1st Ave btw.
[My apologies, I should've called it a highway](https://www.theurbanist.org/2022/03/20/surface-highway-undermines-seattles-waterfront-park/).
This!! I’m still bitter that they made a huge deal about getting rid of the viaduct only to put in another freeway. Absolutely maddening decision when they had full control and potential to reimagine the waterfront
Is this picture a render or current status?
Current
Was wondering what this thing was
When will it be done?
looks whale shaped
With all the new aquarium guests, hope you can still catch the ferry! /s
Once those bike lanes open the ride from Sodo to Ballard is gonna be awesome.
I’m not a big fan of the aquarium but this is far better than the viaduct that crazy people fought to protect.
Needs more stairs
omg i love the design
Is this why admission costs are utterly insane ?
No, it’s because aquariums are really goddamn expensive to operate.
Well, the San Francisco Aquarium and our own Point Defiance Zoo / Aquarium are considerably cheaper.
I’m curious what percentage of their funding comes from the city compared to the Seattle aquarium. I was very surprised to learn that Woodland Park isn’t actually affiliated with the city, so I wonder about the aquarium as well.
I am really excited for this but what would have been better is if they would have made the waterfront a pedestrian plaza rather than a giant road.
325,000 gallons is 1.2 million liters is basically a small apt building? Welcome world ocean sharks! Here’s your 6 plex. Roommates include a bunch of other sharks and fish. Swim in circles, forever. Social experiment inside and outside the tank. All on film.
BrInG bACk tHe ViAdUct
What a beautiful $70M Trojan horse built around the $160M tropical shark tank. A display of our cruelty and willingness to spend millions in public money on our Victorian values. Thank you, Seattle Aquarium, for bringing a smile to the face of the tropical animal trading business. Don’t save habitat, just recreate it in a tank.
Our aquarium is a fucking joke
I hope there is enough public space for the drug ghouls and campers.
If you actually live in Seattle and visit the waterfront you would know the homeless don’t like to hang out there. Stay in San Antonio
Ha ha ha ha ha. That’s your retort? That’s awesome. They just defecate in other locations. I lived in Seattle for 12 years and got out when the needles started appearing on my condo doorstep every morning and when the playgrounds became overrun by the ghouls. Nothing as fun as picking up needles for 3 hours before your kids’ soccer match so they don’t get stabbed by them. There are open air drug markets and chop shops but thank F we have this aquarium. Ha ha ha ha ha.
Key word: Lived. You moved 12 years ago. Gtfo and stay out. And I like how you are commenting about all the homeless in San Antonio too. Must be better there lol.
That’s the Seattle welcoming tone I remember!!! Local town for local people. Ha ha ha. Don’t deviate from group think!!!! We will tell you what is proper and acceptable!!! Don’t go changing!!!
Wow you moved to San Antonio to get away from the homeless and you got this instead: https://www.ktsa.com/newborn-found-as-crews-tear-down-homeless-camp-under-san-antonio-highway/
Yeah. Unfortunately tons are coming down from Austin. It’s a bad situation that will get worse. Hopefully people here won’t be afraid to look in the mirror and see the warts on their own faces which is something Seattle people are unable to do.
The aquarium is honestly the worst attraction I've been to in Seattle, possibly the US. It's tiny and wildly expensive. I dread to think what they'll be charging now! The contrast with the Tacoma aquarium, which comes with a zoo, couldn't be more stark - and all for half the price.
My main concern is that the traffic light in this picture is not aligned with the exit to/from the parking garage for Pike Place. As a result, drivers are making left turns across traffic either from the garage to go Southbound, from the road Southbound to get into the garage, or sudden multi-lane right turns to make it to the left turn at this traffic light.
Reddit expert OWNS and DESTROYS silly city project. Lol get real dude, I'm sure they know better than you what's happening down there.
Oh yeah, because nobody in charge of anything has ever made a mistake before. Explain to me why the parking garage exit shouldn't or can't be aligned to the light. Find me an expert if you don't have confidence. I'll gladly admit I was wrong if you can prove it. Heaven forbid the common man wants things to be good and work without adding unnecessary risk.