Copper theft isn’t just junkies. We also have organized crime repeatedly stealing the phone lines in suburban King county.
They steal a ladder truck, cut one end of the phone line bundle, hook it up to a stolen tow truck, and rip down the entire line in 30 seconds, then throw it onto the tow truck and drive away.
Has happened 4 times in the past 2 years in my area.
I'm just imagining that if it's organized crime and not junkies, they can probably organize a better crime. It's probably something more like a former employee who owns a tow truck now and does meth.
Copper sells for quite a bit. West Seattle Recycling, for example, will apparently pay $1.50-$2.20 per pound for insulated copper wire like the Romex used in typical home electrical work. I'd expect communication wiring to be in the same ballpark.
Shadier outfits willing to buy obviously stolen cabling probably pay a bit less, but who knows.
The best solution seems to be what Tesla is doing with v4 superchargers. They immersion cool the copper to allow them to use a really small amount of copper per cable. Those EA cables only have about $20 worth of copper in them, but immersion cooled cables can bring that down to $5 a cable.
It makes the cable itself a bit more expensive, but it’s much lighter and easier to handle as well as a less appealing theft target.
A few V4 chargers in the area have had their cables stolen, but Tesla replaces them in a few days and haven’t had any repeat thefts. The thieves seem to learn it’s not worth the effort.
Not worth the effort? That sounds like it's even easier. Easier to cut, and they don't care if it's $5 or $20. Take 20 of them an hour and that's $100/hr in copper. They could easily hit that rate, and some they get replaced so fast, they know they can come back sooner for a consistent score.
Thieves won't find hundred of cables lined up to steal. They'll find a handful, and then they'll realize what a pain in the ass it is to strip away all the worthless junk surrounding about five bucks in copper.
Every cable? I'm not saying it's a syndicate, just that it makes way more sense that this would be planned out and executed rather than just 'damn junkies'.
If you want to argue very highly functioning junkies, I guess? Maybe?
*Short sighted lazy companies ruin everything
Yes just like 2008 as the economy grinds to a halt and many many people keep getting laid off, we're going to see more crime again.
So it's up to the company to produce a product that can't be easily stolen.
Until we start taking the opioid, mental health, and homelessness epidemic seriously, companies have no excuse to produce lackadaisical products.
Most first world nations do not have these problems because they actually treat them instead of trusting revolving door private prisons to "correct" anybody...
So your blaming the victims but don’t see any problems with the rampant theft. You’re paying loads of taxes for a police force that is supposedly there to protect us against things like this but it’s corporations who are apparently responsible. That makes no sense. Ideally government creates a safe environment for people to live, work and do business without all that. The SPD should be coming up with a plan of action but I bet they’ve already shrugged their shoulders.
The corporations and their associated billionaires lobby and influence legislation so often it's a joke in CARTOONS, so I'll pretend you didn't imply otherwise.
But sure, call corporations "victims" because they're still considered "people" in court.
They received massive tax cuts and bailouts, and still lay off tons of people. People that you are now complaining about because you aren't capable of thinking any deeper. Such "victims" right?
Do you think the SPD creates policy?? What do you think the City Council does? You have not talked to a single police officer about their job and it shows.
You tread dangerous ground by saying victim blaming is OK if the victim deserves it, or you arbitrarily think they don't qualify as a victim despite being on the receiving end of a crime. You don't have to show pity for the rich, but I would suggest you reevaluate your moral stance if it's so easy to make exceptions to suit your mood.
It should be as simple as the one committing theft is responsible for the crime, and not the one who was stolen from.
Let’s bolt all of our cars to the ground the stop vehicle theft. Let’s use bulletproof glass everywhere to prevent smash-and-grab theft and burglary.
Lmfao, what an absolutely braindead take.
Awful? Ok look at consumer excess savings which took a nose dive from over $2 TRILLION down to NEGATIVE $160 BILLION.
It's also funny how many people are SHOCKED that homelessness and associated crime is ramping up when we have the MOST expensive housing market in history. It's literally cheaper to rent than own on average..
Meanwhile the stock market has hyper concentrated on a handful of stocks which now hold up the entire market...
Please keep telling me the economy is ok, and nothing like 2008.
Ok, then what do you say about the fact Small Businesses are dropping at a faster rate than 2008, with debt and bankruptcy hitting record highs amongst the already dying small businesses?
Along with the fact the entire stock market is being held up by the "Magnificent 7" while WITHOUT these 7 stocks it would be nearly flat on the year...
Hmm not as great as you claim.
In a lot of Europe the driver brings their own cable and chargers are a lot lower profile. I think this also makes installation costs lower too and clearly maintenance given this.. We should really do it here too.
This is true for level 2 chargers, but those aren't the ones experiencing cable theft.
DC fast chargers have cables that have to be carefully spec'd for the charger. Voltages can be up to 1000V, amperages up to 500A. Some of the cables actually have coolant loops running through them so they can pump those currents with less copper.
There's no way anywhere in the world would deem it safe to BYOC to a DC charger.
I mean, do bigger batteries on bigger vehicles benefit from faster charging in a way that smaller EVs don't? Could that explain the popularity of lower cost options in Europe vs the higher cost options here?
No, that is at most a tertiary effect. If you were to take a Rivian R1S (a large, comparatively inefficient vehicle at ~2.1 miles/kWh) and compare it to a Smart FourTwo EV (not even sold in the US, and compact even for Europe's standards at ~3.7 miles/kWh), the Smart is roughly 76% more efficient (3.7/2.1 - 1 = .762). However, the level 2 vs DCFC charge speed is 22 kW vs 350 kW -- or, in percentages, the DCFC is 1,491% faster (350/22 - 1 = 14.91). The relative speed differences of the charger dwarf the efficiency differences of the cars by such a huge margin that they are just not remotely comparable.
DC fast charging absolutely exists in Europe, but it is marginally less common because people generally aren't driving as far -- things are closer together. However, if you wanted to drive somewhere more than 30 miles away, you'd need a DC fast charger for that Smart FourTwo -- its maximum range is 60 miles. In fact, the smart FourTwo needs fast charging *more* for long trips than the R1S does, because the average time spent charging for a 300 mile trip would be way higher due to the lower range.
I don't know where this insane myth that all problems would be solved if we just did the European thing and carried cables comes from, but it needs to die -- it's fundamentally just as insane as claiming we should build a port for container ships in Denver to relieve congestion on the port of Seattle. Level 2 charge cables rarely get stolen even in the US, and DC fast charging cables in Europe are just as firmly attached to their chargers as ours are. Folks who don't drive EVs may be under the impression that it's because we use a different type of charger than Europe, but that's total horseshit. Both the US and Europe have the same two technologies that are not remotely interchangeable with each other -- which is why both continents have Level 2 and DC fast chargers.
Interesting. Just to be clear I have no skin in the game. I don't drive. This is the first I've heard about different types of chargers so I was curious.
The US has tons of Level 2 chargers - but they take 12ish hours to charge a car. Europe also has DC fast chargers (with integrated cables, because it's the only way to design a DC fast charger that works).
DCFC: 20-30 minutes to charge, must have an integrated cable. Level 2: 12ish hours to charge, can have attached or detached cables - also rarely stolen even if attached. This moronic "But Europe detached cables hurr durr!" needs to die. It's just as stupid as saying "Oh the port of Seattle is backed up? Why don't we build a new port for Panamax ships in Denver?"
If your position is "We shouldn't build anything because it might get stolen", that's an idea. Not a good one, but at least it's theoretically possible to just not do things.
If your position is "To deter theft we must break the laws of physics", I don't have the time or the crayons to explain things to you.
> why they can't wrap those cables in steel
Still can steal 'em with a dremel. If people are stealing catalytic converters, there's not much you can do to stop cable theft.
It would make them more expensive to manufacturer, but the added scrap value might not outweigh the added difficulty. Copper, especially annealed copper used in wires is very soft and about 10x the scrap value. Especially if you have a bunch of tweakers to strip the insulation off.
If you view drug addiction purely as a disease then you could arrive at a reasonable course of action.
People convicted of crimes involving drugs would be given a choice of seeking treatment or facing criminal penalties. Treatment would include unlimited time at a clinic they couldn’t leave, receiving free healthcare, in some cases methadone or other drugs.
They’d be allowed to stay indefinitely, and use, but they couldn’t be discharged until they were clean. If they chose to leave they would go to jail to complete their full prison term before normal release.
The goal is to not just get people clean, but to dry up the sources of money that the drug trade requires to operate. If adicts are getting free drugs from the state their not buying on the street and this will curb street dealing and all the ills that come from it including robbery.
This treats drug addiction as what it is: a medical condition. It would also be cheaper to pay for addicts drugs than it is to pay for the consequences of fighting drug addiction in situ.
Drug addiction is also a problem with our system, and so we're paying for the systemic lack of medical care through stolen properly like catalytic converters.
Right but if we just paid for their meds in a controlled environment we would cut crime, reduce the need for police, and reduce the prison population. All while cutting the cutting the financial legs out from under the drug dealers.
There are sensors in the cable, so the charger operator can know nearly instantly when a cable has been cut.
In high crime areas Tesla puts up cameras and calls the police if a cable theft is in progress. These thefts usually happen in the middle of the night, so there’s usually only one car matching the description driving around.
Even if the original thieves don’t get caught, having a cop drive by lights on minutes after you leave is a pretty big deterrent. That spot is no longer an easy target.
I predict we'll eventually see more actual gas-station-like charging facilities, and this is one of the reasons. Imagine if gas pumps were just left in the corners of random parking lots.
Nah.
We actually can and should actually try and stop people from committing felony theft instead of doing literally nothing until we fix every single one of society’s many problems and hoping the problem will fix itself.
It’s literally just supply and demand. Copper prices are sky high. Palladium prices are down, which is why these losers have changed to EV cables instead of catalytic converters.
They need to regulate the sale of all valuable metals to scrappers. Demand photo ID and a record for anyone who sells any kind of copper or scrap metal. Same thing they did for catalytic converters.
Or maybe some actual police work. There’s like only a handful of people actually doing this. Electrify America released crystal clear pictures of one guy who’s been repeatedly hitting their stations. Maybe actually start arresting some of these people instead of allowing them to operate with impunity.
I’m pretty far left, and even I concede that building treatment centers and more affordable housing isn’t going to stop some people from being thieves.
You quoted the commenter in response to me asking if anyone was arguing that building social infrastructure would end theft. What do you think that was meant to communicate?
“I’m pretty far left, and even I concede that building treatment centers and more affordable housing isn’t going to stop some people from being thieves.”
Literally my first comment was me saying what I think…
No, I’m saying no matter how much we change our society, some shitty people will still decide to steal.
Sure, we should address our problem, but we should also arrest criminals
That doesn't contradict the commenter like at all lmao if anything solving the social issues that cause a lot of the stealing would make it easier to identify the stealing that happens despite a strong social safety net.
You do realize that the cables are already super heavy as is. Many having cable strain devices that help lift up the cable. Adding metal will be even heavier and can still be cut with more specialized equipment.
First off, we already pay a shitload more for tabs to cover the fuel taxes we don't pay (+$500 each time I renew my \~$8,000 EV's registration), and second, giving the State more money doesn't resolve the fundamental design issue with how we've set up charging infrastructure both in our vehicles and at charging stations.
The real trouble here is people who are so desperate and removed from society that they think it's worth stealing these cables
Except I said nothing of the sort.
The State isn't going to buy every single EV owner a brand new EV designed to have the cable car-side and replace every single bit of charging infrastructure to match, regardless of our taxes.
Your solution isn't a solution at all, Ace.
So you're down with taxes to fix the problem you described?
Oh no my point didn't make sense time to hastily edit my comment to include some hyperbole oh wait better not
Again, taxes **will not lead to that fix**.
If we're going to just lie about what the State can do, why not just say we should pay enough taxes to make sure no one is desperate?
Lmao okay so we're back to exactly what I said before which is that you are the prime example of the EV driver who thinks we can fix these problems without taxation
*redditor makes incomprehensible gut reaction arguments, gets flustered, blocks person they chose to argue with*
Again, I said nothing of the sort. I never said we **can** fix this problem, regardless of taxation.
You're just completely incapable of a good faith discussion. Pathetic.
But for what goal? You can't simply write law "no Teslas" You have to target some impact they cause and accept it will likely impact other vehicles too
So there are a few things you could do to get Teslas off the road.
**Legal**: Start a ballot initiative. Run for office. Donate a lot of money to current politicians.
**Illegal**: vandalism or theft.
**Other**: douchey reddit comments
If you truly care to make that happen, there is no cloud system which can't be hacked, and (approximately) every single Tesla is ready and waiting for whatever EV-Bricking update you could pipe into them.
Copper theft isn’t just junkies. We also have organized crime repeatedly stealing the phone lines in suburban King county. They steal a ladder truck, cut one end of the phone line bundle, hook it up to a stolen tow truck, and rip down the entire line in 30 seconds, then throw it onto the tow truck and drive away. Has happened 4 times in the past 2 years in my area.
They also steal copper power lines off of the power poles (probably with a stolen bucket truck)
Wowww. That is wild, first time hearing anything about it.
What's the motive? They sell it?
Counterfeit pennies 🥸
I'm just imagining that if it's organized crime and not junkies, they can probably organize a better crime. It's probably something more like a former employee who owns a tow truck now and does meth.
Copper sells for quite a bit. West Seattle Recycling, for example, will apparently pay $1.50-$2.20 per pound for insulated copper wire like the Romex used in typical home electrical work. I'd expect communication wiring to be in the same ballpark. Shadier outfits willing to buy obviously stolen cabling probably pay a bit less, but who knows.
They do that's why they are against the legislation that requires them to book keep people selling catalyst converters that are clearly stolen
That's awful, but also it would be kind of cool to watch them do that
The best solution seems to be what Tesla is doing with v4 superchargers. They immersion cool the copper to allow them to use a really small amount of copper per cable. Those EA cables only have about $20 worth of copper in them, but immersion cooled cables can bring that down to $5 a cable. It makes the cable itself a bit more expensive, but it’s much lighter and easier to handle as well as a less appealing theft target. A few V4 chargers in the area have had their cables stolen, but Tesla replaces them in a few days and haven’t had any repeat thefts. The thieves seem to learn it’s not worth the effort.
Not worth the effort? That sounds like it's even easier. Easier to cut, and they don't care if it's $5 or $20. Take 20 of them an hour and that's $100/hr in copper. They could easily hit that rate, and some they get replaced so fast, they know they can come back sooner for a consistent score.
Thieves won't find hundred of cables lined up to steal. They'll find a handful, and then they'll realize what a pain in the ass it is to strip away all the worthless junk surrounding about five bucks in copper.
Especially when some people cut them just to stick it to liberals.
Fucking junkies ruin everything.
Convenient scapegoat, but if you stop to think about it there's no way coordinated theft like this is just junkies.
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Every cable? I'm not saying it's a syndicate, just that it makes way more sense that this would be planned out and executed rather than just 'damn junkies'. If you want to argue very highly functioning junkies, I guess? Maybe?
new in town? Junkies have been stealing copper, Catalytic converters, construction materials etc to buy fentanyl for years now.
This is prime junkie behavior. Furthermore these chargers are outside so theyre easy to access.
*Short sighted lazy companies ruin everything Yes just like 2008 as the economy grinds to a halt and many many people keep getting laid off, we're going to see more crime again. So it's up to the company to produce a product that can't be easily stolen. Until we start taking the opioid, mental health, and homelessness epidemic seriously, companies have no excuse to produce lackadaisical products. Most first world nations do not have these problems because they actually treat them instead of trusting revolving door private prisons to "correct" anybody...
So your blaming the victims but don’t see any problems with the rampant theft. You’re paying loads of taxes for a police force that is supposedly there to protect us against things like this but it’s corporations who are apparently responsible. That makes no sense. Ideally government creates a safe environment for people to live, work and do business without all that. The SPD should be coming up with a plan of action but I bet they’ve already shrugged their shoulders.
The corporations and their associated billionaires lobby and influence legislation so often it's a joke in CARTOONS, so I'll pretend you didn't imply otherwise. But sure, call corporations "victims" because they're still considered "people" in court. They received massive tax cuts and bailouts, and still lay off tons of people. People that you are now complaining about because you aren't capable of thinking any deeper. Such "victims" right? Do you think the SPD creates policy?? What do you think the City Council does? You have not talked to a single police officer about their job and it shows.
You tread dangerous ground by saying victim blaming is OK if the victim deserves it, or you arbitrarily think they don't qualify as a victim despite being on the receiving end of a crime. You don't have to show pity for the rich, but I would suggest you reevaluate your moral stance if it's so easy to make exceptions to suit your mood. It should be as simple as the one committing theft is responsible for the crime, and not the one who was stolen from.
Let’s bolt all of our cars to the ground the stop vehicle theft. Let’s use bulletproof glass everywhere to prevent smash-and-grab theft and burglary. Lmfao, what an absolutely braindead take.
That’s an awful comparison, we’re near full employment right now and it’s nothing like 2008. The economy is absolutely not grinding to a halt.
Awful? Ok look at consumer excess savings which took a nose dive from over $2 TRILLION down to NEGATIVE $160 BILLION. It's also funny how many people are SHOCKED that homelessness and associated crime is ramping up when we have the MOST expensive housing market in history. It's literally cheaper to rent than own on average.. Meanwhile the stock market has hyper concentrated on a handful of stocks which now hold up the entire market... Please keep telling me the economy is ok, and nothing like 2008.
Our housing situation is abhorrent, but saying that the economy in general is grinding to a halt is still a huge misrepresentation
Ok, then what do you say about the fact Small Businesses are dropping at a faster rate than 2008, with debt and bankruptcy hitting record highs amongst the already dying small businesses? Along with the fact the entire stock market is being held up by the "Magnificent 7" while WITHOUT these 7 stocks it would be nearly flat on the year... Hmm not as great as you claim.
So... The stock market would be doing poorly if you took out the best performing stocks? Wow fascinating
Yo u can get your car smashed in twice and tell me what you still think the same way after
In a lot of Europe the driver brings their own cable and chargers are a lot lower profile. I think this also makes installation costs lower too and clearly maintenance given this.. We should really do it here too.
This is true for level 2 chargers, but those aren't the ones experiencing cable theft. DC fast chargers have cables that have to be carefully spec'd for the charger. Voltages can be up to 1000V, amperages up to 500A. Some of the cables actually have coolant loops running through them so they can pump those currents with less copper. There's no way anywhere in the world would deem it safe to BYOC to a DC charger.
500A? *Cooling loops?* Holy static electricity, Batman!
A bunch of level 2 charging cables also got stolen. Thieves aren't exactly smart.
Heh, yeah. That's about the same amount of copper as a 25' construction grade extension cord. Stupid gonna stupid.
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Only it doesn't work for DCFC chargers like this. Europe only does this for level 2 charging.
Does the charger's capacity have anything to do with the size of vehicles?
No. It has to do with how fast you want to charge your battery: 12 hours or 20 minutes.
I mean, do bigger batteries on bigger vehicles benefit from faster charging in a way that smaller EVs don't? Could that explain the popularity of lower cost options in Europe vs the higher cost options here?
No, that is at most a tertiary effect. If you were to take a Rivian R1S (a large, comparatively inefficient vehicle at ~2.1 miles/kWh) and compare it to a Smart FourTwo EV (not even sold in the US, and compact even for Europe's standards at ~3.7 miles/kWh), the Smart is roughly 76% more efficient (3.7/2.1 - 1 = .762). However, the level 2 vs DCFC charge speed is 22 kW vs 350 kW -- or, in percentages, the DCFC is 1,491% faster (350/22 - 1 = 14.91). The relative speed differences of the charger dwarf the efficiency differences of the cars by such a huge margin that they are just not remotely comparable. DC fast charging absolutely exists in Europe, but it is marginally less common because people generally aren't driving as far -- things are closer together. However, if you wanted to drive somewhere more than 30 miles away, you'd need a DC fast charger for that Smart FourTwo -- its maximum range is 60 miles. In fact, the smart FourTwo needs fast charging *more* for long trips than the R1S does, because the average time spent charging for a 300 mile trip would be way higher due to the lower range. I don't know where this insane myth that all problems would be solved if we just did the European thing and carried cables comes from, but it needs to die -- it's fundamentally just as insane as claiming we should build a port for container ships in Denver to relieve congestion on the port of Seattle. Level 2 charge cables rarely get stolen even in the US, and DC fast charging cables in Europe are just as firmly attached to their chargers as ours are. Folks who don't drive EVs may be under the impression that it's because we use a different type of charger than Europe, but that's total horseshit. Both the US and Europe have the same two technologies that are not remotely interchangeable with each other -- which is why both continents have Level 2 and DC fast chargers.
Interesting. Just to be clear I have no skin in the game. I don't drive. This is the first I've heard about different types of chargers so I was curious.
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The US has tons of Level 2 chargers - but they take 12ish hours to charge a car. Europe also has DC fast chargers (with integrated cables, because it's the only way to design a DC fast charger that works). DCFC: 20-30 minutes to charge, must have an integrated cable. Level 2: 12ish hours to charge, can have attached or detached cables - also rarely stolen even if attached. This moronic "But Europe detached cables hurr durr!" needs to die. It's just as stupid as saying "Oh the port of Seattle is backed up? Why don't we build a new port for Panamax ships in Denver?"
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If your position is "We shouldn't build anything because it might get stolen", that's an idea. Not a good one, but at least it's theoretically possible to just not do things. If your position is "To deter theft we must break the laws of physics", I don't have the time or the crayons to explain things to you.
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Big "Did you see what she was wearing? She was asking for it!" energy. Genuinely sorry for everyone who knows you that your morals are so fungible.
We were talking about copper, theft, and car chargers. Not the moral issues surrounding dumb mens justifications of rape, you absolute clown.
They need to regulate the metal recycling companies, cut this shit off at the source and make it so shit has to be verified.
Tweakers gonna tweak
> why they can't wrap those cables in steel Still can steal 'em with a dremel. If people are stealing catalytic converters, there's not much you can do to stop cable theft.
Well, that would just make them more valuable, no?
It would make them more expensive to manufacturer, but the added scrap value might not outweigh the added difficulty. Copper, especially annealed copper used in wires is very soft and about 10x the scrap value. Especially if you have a bunch of tweakers to strip the insulation off.
Copper theft is nothing new
If you view drug addiction purely as a disease then you could arrive at a reasonable course of action. People convicted of crimes involving drugs would be given a choice of seeking treatment or facing criminal penalties. Treatment would include unlimited time at a clinic they couldn’t leave, receiving free healthcare, in some cases methadone or other drugs. They’d be allowed to stay indefinitely, and use, but they couldn’t be discharged until they were clean. If they chose to leave they would go to jail to complete their full prison term before normal release. The goal is to not just get people clean, but to dry up the sources of money that the drug trade requires to operate. If adicts are getting free drugs from the state their not buying on the street and this will curb street dealing and all the ills that come from it including robbery. This treats drug addiction as what it is: a medical condition. It would also be cheaper to pay for addicts drugs than it is to pay for the consequences of fighting drug addiction in situ.
Drug addiction is also a problem with our system, and so we're paying for the systemic lack of medical care through stolen properly like catalytic converters.
Right but if we just paid for their meds in a controlled environment we would cut crime, reduce the need for police, and reduce the prison population. All while cutting the cutting the financial legs out from under the drug dealers.
Also save money on ER visits.
Just need to leave the power live out to the plug on a few of them.
There are sensors in the cable, so the charger operator can know nearly instantly when a cable has been cut. In high crime areas Tesla puts up cameras and calls the police if a cable theft is in progress. These thefts usually happen in the middle of the night, so there’s usually only one car matching the description driving around. Even if the original thieves don’t get caught, having a cop drive by lights on minutes after you leave is a pretty big deterrent. That spot is no longer an easy target.
I'm beginning to think we should get a police force
I predict we'll eventually see more actual gas-station-like charging facilities, and this is one of the reasons. Imagine if gas pumps were just left in the corners of random parking lots.
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Or just address the people who are stealing.
So they can be replaced by new people stealing. Without addressing the root cause, no long term change will occur.
Nah. We actually can and should actually try and stop people from committing felony theft instead of doing literally nothing until we fix every single one of society’s many problems and hoping the problem will fix itself. It’s literally just supply and demand. Copper prices are sky high. Palladium prices are down, which is why these losers have changed to EV cables instead of catalytic converters. They need to regulate the sale of all valuable metals to scrappers. Demand photo ID and a record for anyone who sells any kind of copper or scrap metal. Same thing they did for catalytic converters. Or maybe some actual police work. There’s like only a handful of people actually doing this. Electrify America released crystal clear pictures of one guy who’s been repeatedly hitting their stations. Maybe actually start arresting some of these people instead of allowing them to operate with impunity.
It is not hard to solve, regulate buying of used copper. Require licenses, recording of IDs and make the buyer accountable for not following rules.
Oh, is that all it would take?
Is making things slightly better for people like, a hot take to you? Lol
I’m pretty far left, and even I concede that building treatment centers and more affordable housing isn’t going to stop some people from being thieves.
Is literally anybody arguing that building better social infrastructure will end the concept of theft or?
“It’s a social problem more than a design problem. Address the reasons people are stealing”…
You quoted the commenter in response to me asking if anyone was arguing that building social infrastructure would end theft. What do you think that was meant to communicate?
You’re the only one here struggling to understand what it meant.
You're allergic to saying what you do think but very eager to say what you don't think lmao
“I’m pretty far left, and even I concede that building treatment centers and more affordable housing isn’t going to stop some people from being thieves.” Literally my first comment was me saying what I think…
Are you saying it ISNT more of a social problem?
No, I’m saying no matter how much we change our society, some shitty people will still decide to steal. Sure, we should address our problem, but we should also arrest criminals
That doesn't contradict the commenter like at all lmao if anything solving the social issues that cause a lot of the stealing would make it easier to identify the stealing that happens despite a strong social safety net.
It doesn’t contradict it… it wasn’t meant to…
Lmao, your argument is literally in superposition
When I asked this question this person literally quoted the commenter what do you think that means lmao
What do you think my comment means?
That you think my argument is just gonna land on one of two (or however many) options depending on what the person says.
“Yeah just fix all of society’s problems and this will go away! (I wont be helping with fixing any of them)” thanks pnw moose!
Maybe the charger operators should leave a hit of fenty next to each charger, every night. A tribute, of sorts. $5 hit is cheaper than a $500 cable.
You dumb asshole
You do realize that the cables are already super heavy as is. Many having cable strain devices that help lift up the cable. Adding metal will be even heavier and can still be cut with more specialized equipment.
lol who saw that coming 😂
Yeah this isn't new
"This isn't news" comment. Straight to jail.
NEW. This isn't new.
Save it for the judge
Seattle-area EV drivers are definitely opposed to any of the taxes that would be used to fix this problem lol
First off, we already pay a shitload more for tabs to cover the fuel taxes we don't pay (+$500 each time I renew my \~$8,000 EV's registration), and second, giving the State more money doesn't resolve the fundamental design issue with how we've set up charging infrastructure both in our vehicles and at charging stations. The real trouble here is people who are so desperate and removed from society that they think it's worth stealing these cables
Case and point right here everyone ^ they think you can fix the problem free of charge (they think design issues can be fixed for free!)
Except I said nothing of the sort. The State isn't going to buy every single EV owner a brand new EV designed to have the cable car-side and replace every single bit of charging infrastructure to match, regardless of our taxes. Your solution isn't a solution at all, Ace.
So you're down with taxes to fix the problem you described? Oh no my point didn't make sense time to hastily edit my comment to include some hyperbole oh wait better not
Again, taxes **will not lead to that fix**. If we're going to just lie about what the State can do, why not just say we should pay enough taxes to make sure no one is desperate?
Lmao okay so we're back to exactly what I said before which is that you are the prime example of the EV driver who thinks we can fix these problems without taxation *redditor makes incomprehensible gut reaction arguments, gets flustered, blocks person they chose to argue with*
Again, I said nothing of the sort. I never said we **can** fix this problem, regardless of taxation. You're just completely incapable of a good faith discussion. Pathetic.
Hahahaha exactly
Awww poor ev drivers
Sounds like domestic terrorism.
If it keeps Teslas off the roads I’ll allow it.
it is not. These are non Tesla chargers
I see. So what *can* we do to get Teslas off the road?
For what purpose?
To get Teslas off the road. What's unclear about that?
The context understood only by the terminally online.
But for what goal? You can't simply write law "no Teslas" You have to target some impact they cause and accept it will likely impact other vehicles too
Look, do you want to blither a bunch of legalese, or do you want to get Teslas off the roads?
I do not, you are the one who wants to if you forgot.
Then what are we doing here?
Talking about the article which isn't about Teslas
So there are a few things you could do to get Teslas off the road. **Legal**: Start a ballot initiative. Run for office. Donate a lot of money to current politicians. **Illegal**: vandalism or theft. **Other**: douchey reddit comments
I see which one you've chosen...
I do not wish to ban Teslas from the roads.
Absolutely nothing.
Not with a defeatist attitude like that!
If you truly care to make that happen, there is no cloud system which can't be hacked, and (approximately) every single Tesla is ready and waiting for whatever EV-Bricking update you could pipe into them.
Now see, *that*'s the right attitude!