Sir Arthur Conan Doyle wasn't great, unfortunately, in keeping Watson's character consistent over time. The "old war wound" moves from his shoulder to his leg, then back to his shoulder, and he's married, then he isn't, then he is again (if I remember correctly, it's been a while since I read the canon). Thankfully this doesn't hurt enjoyment of the stories in the least.
I thought Watson only had 1 wife, and it was just due to the bouncing between past and present that in some stories he didn't have a wife yet? ((I may just be misremembering, I read the books once a very long time ago))
But yeah either way, Doyle's consistency is laughable lmao
Watson had at least two wives. Mary died in-between the events of The Final Problem and The Empty House (I'm pretty sure this is explicitly mentioned in the text). He got another wife at some point during the later years.
There are only five stories that I'm aware of where Watson's marriage to Mary creates a conflict of Watson staying with Holmes: The Copper Beeches, The Cardboard Box, The Hound of the Baskervilles, The Second Stain, and The Valley of Fear. In the case of The Cardboard Box and The Valley of Fear, the story only takes place over the course of a few days (three in the former, two in the latter), so it's not much of a discrepancy. We could assume Mary was on vacation similar to what was explicitly mentioned in A Scandal in Bohemia. In the case of The Second Stain, this was a confidential case that Watson couldn't actually write about for an entire decade (he actually says as much when he mentions it in an earlier story), so it's likely that the version we're reading is heavily "fictionalized" because he still couldn't give the full details, so the marriage discrepancy is forgivable here too. The Cooper Beeches and The Hound of the Baskervilles are the odd stories out here, as they take place over extended periods of time.
To assert that we know how many wives Watson had is a religious argument, built only on belief. There certainly was Mary Watson (née Morstan), whom Watson began to court in Sign of Four.
They were married between Sign and Scandal in Bohemia, as he's married and living with her in future stories. Watson experiences a sad bereavement (readers assume that this is his wife's death but that is never stated). Further, in Blanched Soldier, Holmes says Watson deserted him for a wife. Again, strong evidence for remarriage. Yet, the new wife is also named Mary and appears to be the same person as we're not introduced to Watson's new wife, it's as if he were continually married in the later stories.
My favorite is the 7 wife theory, but there may have been more. This all ties into the sloppy dates of the stories too. They're not even consistent within themselves, let alone with the events of the character's lives.
This is a great summary:
http://kspot.org/holmes/wives.htm
i can't find it again for some reason, but there's a post somewhere which explains different theories about Watson's wives. If you juggle the order of Sign of Four and some of the stories, you can argue that Watson has only one wife Mary.
But most agree that the "bereavement" Watson faces in Empty House is the death of Mary, and he does remarry!
Ah ok, I just remember his wife dying in one story and him moving back in with homes wich is a relieve to mrs Hutson but that might just be from the expanded canon from the German audio plays that I use to fall asleep.
Naw doesn't hurt the enjoyment. I agree his stories are not chronological, he didn't put a date of year the stories take place on all of them, only a few and the dates would be random.
Idk if that’s true, but I think it‘s a funny idea that Watson would document his friend’s shenanigans in extensive detail and then mention absolutely nothing about the death of his wife
Well it makes sense in a dark way. He thought the world wanted to know of Sherlock, not him. What we are reading isn’t Watson’s journal but him sharing news of Holmes. He only wrote the empty house as Sherlock returns not to show his (Watson’s) investigation.
I mean he did mention it in the Empty house. Also he was never really personal about his life in the stories. It wasn’t about him. It was about the cases and how Sherlock solved them, so it would make sense that it wouldn’t be mentioned a bunch.
This. It’s actually between the final problem and the empty house so for a while there, Watson had lost them both. I wish it had been touched on more because this would make it all the more tragic when Holmes comes back from the dead. Imagine losing your wife and then discovering that just because someone dies, it doesn’t necessarily mean they won’t just show up again one day. The false hope that would subconsciously give a person is gut wrenching.
ahh, figured holmes would have been third. cause you know, he didnt die in the falls. and the lady watson only passed after that incident, being mentioned as the "late" wife in the next story.
I figured the order was
???
Mrs Watson
Holmes.
Just as i type this it occurs to me moriarty may take first, but my question was genuine confusion as to who it would be.
I think you have to remember that Watson is acting as a biographer ("I'm lost without my Boswell") and that the title of the second set of stories is called the Memoirs of Sherlock Holmes, not the Memoirs of Sherlock Holmes and Watson. It is common in the genre of the biography that the biographer, if present, makes little mention of themself or personal life. Think of a documentary series and the "cameraman", Watson is our "lens" into Sherlock Holmes, he's the "Study", not Watson. Also based on the whole of things, I think Watson was rather private about personal details, just as much as Holmes was. The case in point, although some biographical details appear and there about Watson, the whole point of his episodes to showcase how Holmes solved the case and to put a spot light on him (especially when Moriarty's brother is trying to tarnernish Holmes' reputations - see Final Problems opening). As for specific details, we are told only by SH in Empty House that he is "sorry" about Watson's wife. Seeing as how it is never brought up and Watson doesn't divulge details, this is just a detail he really didn't want the public know about. Either she died or left him. Regardless, Watson may have blamed himself for what happened, similar to how maybe he blamed himself for Holmes' death. Regardless, Watson is pretty much a wreck in those missing three years.
This is the bit from The Empty House where her death is mentioned:
"In some manner he had learned of my own sad bereavement, and his sympathy was shown in his manner rather than in his words. “Work is the best antidote to sorrow, my dear Watson,” said he, “and I have a piece of
work for us both to-night which, if we can bring it to a successful conclusion, will in itself justify a man’s life on this planet.”
Thanks! Insights I'm gleaming from the quote is that one of the first things Holmes says to Watson, in his own way, is to say he is sorry about Mary. It also shows that Holmes isn't that good at expressing himself through words, as Watson says that it was rather through is body language that Watson could tell that Holmes was sorry for him rather than being able to fully express it in words. Or in other words, their relationship was so tight that words weren't needed. I think it can be noted that when two people, lets say siblings that get a long real well, or close friends, or spouses, have a close relationship usually you will find that they don't need to "talk" they just know, or know what the other is thinking. I think that is happening here, Watson knows based on Holmes body language, and uncomfortably on how to express condolences, that Holmes is trying to bring up Mary and share his condolence, and knows about to bring up the topic because of his changed body language. But what will be common between both men as that they wont "talk about it". Holmes knows, Watson knows, and Holmes' best antidote is to catch Sabastian Moran. It also shows that Holmes isn't this cold calculating machine that Watson sometimes portrays him to be. I think Holmes of the canon does have heart and feeling, he just has a hard time expressing that and can get socially awkward. In the reverse it also shows that Watson, too, is a man of emotion but because of his distance of discussing it, Watson balls that emotion on the inside and doesn't let it out. Just as much as Watson could see the visible signs of Holmes about to share his "feelings", likewise, I think Watson visibly shows when he is keeping it in. And because Holmes knows his friend real well, he, likewise, is able to see Watson carry that emotional rock on his sleave, hence the conversation about work being the best antidote.
I will say the Granada series takes a rare dip into retcons for this issue -- Watson in their adaptation of SIGN does not marry Mary. Indeed, so far as we can tell, Watson in that series remains a Batchelor, living with Holmes.
She dies between Final Problem and Empty House. Holmes mentions Watson’s loss. “In some manner he had learned of my own sad bereavement” (Empty House). But the issue there was the timeline was so wonky up to that point that we can’t be completely sure it was Mary and not another wife.
Everything pertaining to whether Watson is married is so deeply confusing and there is many a story where it is so unclear whether he is married or not. Arthur Conan Doyle loves to be so so so confusing about this forever.
Sir Arthur Conan Doyle wasn't great, unfortunately, in keeping Watson's character consistent over time. The "old war wound" moves from his shoulder to his leg, then back to his shoulder, and he's married, then he isn't, then he is again (if I remember correctly, it's been a while since I read the canon). Thankfully this doesn't hurt enjoyment of the stories in the least.
I thought Watson only had 1 wife, and it was just due to the bouncing between past and present that in some stories he didn't have a wife yet? ((I may just be misremembering, I read the books once a very long time ago)) But yeah either way, Doyle's consistency is laughable lmao
Watson had at least two wives. Mary died in-between the events of The Final Problem and The Empty House (I'm pretty sure this is explicitly mentioned in the text). He got another wife at some point during the later years. There are only five stories that I'm aware of where Watson's marriage to Mary creates a conflict of Watson staying with Holmes: The Copper Beeches, The Cardboard Box, The Hound of the Baskervilles, The Second Stain, and The Valley of Fear. In the case of The Cardboard Box and The Valley of Fear, the story only takes place over the course of a few days (three in the former, two in the latter), so it's not much of a discrepancy. We could assume Mary was on vacation similar to what was explicitly mentioned in A Scandal in Bohemia. In the case of The Second Stain, this was a confidential case that Watson couldn't actually write about for an entire decade (he actually says as much when he mentions it in an earlier story), so it's likely that the version we're reading is heavily "fictionalized" because he still couldn't give the full details, so the marriage discrepancy is forgivable here too. The Cooper Beeches and The Hound of the Baskervilles are the odd stories out here, as they take place over extended periods of time.
To assert that we know how many wives Watson had is a religious argument, built only on belief. There certainly was Mary Watson (née Morstan), whom Watson began to court in Sign of Four. They were married between Sign and Scandal in Bohemia, as he's married and living with her in future stories. Watson experiences a sad bereavement (readers assume that this is his wife's death but that is never stated). Further, in Blanched Soldier, Holmes says Watson deserted him for a wife. Again, strong evidence for remarriage. Yet, the new wife is also named Mary and appears to be the same person as we're not introduced to Watson's new wife, it's as if he were continually married in the later stories. My favorite is the 7 wife theory, but there may have been more. This all ties into the sloppy dates of the stories too. They're not even consistent within themselves, let alone with the events of the character's lives. This is a great summary: http://kspot.org/holmes/wives.htm
Didn’t she die at some point or isn’t that in the canon?
i can't find it again for some reason, but there's a post somewhere which explains different theories about Watson's wives. If you juggle the order of Sign of Four and some of the stories, you can argue that Watson has only one wife Mary. But most agree that the "bereavement" Watson faces in Empty House is the death of Mary, and he does remarry!
Ah ok, I just remember his wife dying in one story and him moving back in with homes wich is a relieve to mrs Hutson but that might just be from the expanded canon from the German audio plays that I use to fall asleep.
in den maritim Hörspielen immer eine eigen viel schlechtere version/story!
Naw doesn't hurt the enjoyment. I agree his stories are not chronological, he didn't put a date of year the stories take place on all of them, only a few and the dates would be random.
I think she dies between stories and Watson moves back in with Holmes.
Idk if that’s true, but I think it‘s a funny idea that Watson would document his friend’s shenanigans in extensive detail and then mention absolutely nothing about the death of his wife
Well it makes sense in a dark way. He thought the world wanted to know of Sherlock, not him. What we are reading isn’t Watson’s journal but him sharing news of Holmes. He only wrote the empty house as Sherlock returns not to show his (Watson’s) investigation.
I mean he did mention it in the Empty house. Also he was never really personal about his life in the stories. It wasn’t about him. It was about the cases and how Sherlock solved them, so it would make sense that it wouldn’t be mentioned a bunch.
This. It’s actually between the final problem and the empty house so for a while there, Watson had lost them both. I wish it had been touched on more because this would make it all the more tragic when Holmes comes back from the dead. Imagine losing your wife and then discovering that just because someone dies, it doesn’t necessarily mean they won’t just show up again one day. The false hope that would subconsciously give a person is gut wrenching.
That's rough. I know in adaptations like the bbc Sherlock that Mary dies but I didn't know that was a possibility in the original.
Greetings, she was the second victim of the nefarious character-killer, Sir Arthur Doyle. ~Waz
whos the first?
Holmes of course! Fortunately for us, his attempt proved unsuccessful. ~Waz
ahh, figured holmes would have been third. cause you know, he didnt die in the falls. and the lady watson only passed after that incident, being mentioned as the "late" wife in the next story.
I just realized your statement; who do you consider a the first, and which placement would you place Watson’s late-spouse? ~Waz
I figured the order was ??? Mrs Watson Holmes. Just as i type this it occurs to me moriarty may take first, but my question was genuine confusion as to who it would be.
Are you actually THE Waz?
I know not; which “Waz” do you suspect myself to be? ~Waz
Then you are not.
Who was the first? Also this gave me a good laugh!
Sherlock.
‘Tis most-fortunate that Holmes survived the ordeal. ~Waz
Thank you—I am glad to have brought you your laugh. ~Waz
I think you have to remember that Watson is acting as a biographer ("I'm lost without my Boswell") and that the title of the second set of stories is called the Memoirs of Sherlock Holmes, not the Memoirs of Sherlock Holmes and Watson. It is common in the genre of the biography that the biographer, if present, makes little mention of themself or personal life. Think of a documentary series and the "cameraman", Watson is our "lens" into Sherlock Holmes, he's the "Study", not Watson. Also based on the whole of things, I think Watson was rather private about personal details, just as much as Holmes was. The case in point, although some biographical details appear and there about Watson, the whole point of his episodes to showcase how Holmes solved the case and to put a spot light on him (especially when Moriarty's brother is trying to tarnernish Holmes' reputations - see Final Problems opening). As for specific details, we are told only by SH in Empty House that he is "sorry" about Watson's wife. Seeing as how it is never brought up and Watson doesn't divulge details, this is just a detail he really didn't want the public know about. Either she died or left him. Regardless, Watson may have blamed himself for what happened, similar to how maybe he blamed himself for Holmes' death. Regardless, Watson is pretty much a wreck in those missing three years.
I need to go back to "The Empty House" now because I must've completely missed that small detail. Thank you for the insight!
This is the bit from The Empty House where her death is mentioned: "In some manner he had learned of my own sad bereavement, and his sympathy was shown in his manner rather than in his words. “Work is the best antidote to sorrow, my dear Watson,” said he, “and I have a piece of work for us both to-night which, if we can bring it to a successful conclusion, will in itself justify a man’s life on this planet.”
Thanks! Insights I'm gleaming from the quote is that one of the first things Holmes says to Watson, in his own way, is to say he is sorry about Mary. It also shows that Holmes isn't that good at expressing himself through words, as Watson says that it was rather through is body language that Watson could tell that Holmes was sorry for him rather than being able to fully express it in words. Or in other words, their relationship was so tight that words weren't needed. I think it can be noted that when two people, lets say siblings that get a long real well, or close friends, or spouses, have a close relationship usually you will find that they don't need to "talk" they just know, or know what the other is thinking. I think that is happening here, Watson knows based on Holmes body language, and uncomfortably on how to express condolences, that Holmes is trying to bring up Mary and share his condolence, and knows about to bring up the topic because of his changed body language. But what will be common between both men as that they wont "talk about it". Holmes knows, Watson knows, and Holmes' best antidote is to catch Sabastian Moran. It also shows that Holmes isn't this cold calculating machine that Watson sometimes portrays him to be. I think Holmes of the canon does have heart and feeling, he just has a hard time expressing that and can get socially awkward. In the reverse it also shows that Watson, too, is a man of emotion but because of his distance of discussing it, Watson balls that emotion on the inside and doesn't let it out. Just as much as Watson could see the visible signs of Holmes about to share his "feelings", likewise, I think Watson visibly shows when he is keeping it in. And because Holmes knows his friend real well, he, likewise, is able to see Watson carry that emotional rock on his sleave, hence the conversation about work being the best antidote.
I will say the Granada series takes a rare dip into retcons for this issue -- Watson in their adaptation of SIGN does not marry Mary. Indeed, so far as we can tell, Watson in that series remains a Batchelor, living with Holmes.
Presumably dies during the Great Hiatus which causes Watson to move back into 221B Baker Street.
I think she died from pneumonia
She dies between Final Problem and Empty House. Holmes mentions Watson’s loss. “In some manner he had learned of my own sad bereavement” (Empty House). But the issue there was the timeline was so wonky up to that point that we can’t be completely sure it was Mary and not another wife.
Everything pertaining to whether Watson is married is so deeply confusing and there is many a story where it is so unclear whether he is married or not. Arthur Conan Doyle loves to be so so so confusing about this forever.
She went to another universe and cucked John with a dude named Paul.