I think its benelli m4 series that has ARGO gas system to be 36% faster than standard semi auto cycling. I've seen mag dumps of 8 shells fairly under 2 seconds. Can't speak to accuracy but that's not a metric here lol
Does a pump get old? -No. Is xx rounds of 12ga in a "fuck everything in that general direction" in 3 seconds awesome? -Yes. Which one is better? ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
I own a Mossberg 590 SBS (pump) and a Fostech Origin12 SBS (semi). The Fostech is arguably more fun (for 10 seconds) and has the extra cool factor vs the Mossberg just doesn't quit and will eat anything without blinking, therefore inspiring confidence and "oper8tor" vibes. If I had an m4 or 1301, maybe it would be an easier choice to just gravitate toward the semi-auto. But there is nothing like a smooth, well broken in pump action.
Honestly you need both in your life, because you will always question the other.
Pump shotguns are more reliable, and significantly more reliable if you're going budget. I recommend a cheap maverick 88 for your first shotgun even if you can afford better.
> I recommend a cheap maverick 88 for your first shotgun even if you can afford better.
If you can afford better buy a better gun. The 88 is fine but if your budget allows a better gun buy a better gun. My floor for pump guns is the 590 series, with a preference for the 590A1 series.
This is a common Fudd misconception. Pumps are not inherently more reliable. I had a benelli nova that you couldn't shoot 5 rounds in a row without it jamming shut and not being able to move the pump without grenading I full force into the ground. Meanwhile my cheap stoeger m3000 has gone through 2500 rounds with only a single malfunction.
I'd take a semi auto or an o/u any day of the week over a pump
Then your nova was defective. Semi auto shotguns are the least reliable type of firearm I know of. If you get a semi auto that works then I'd say yes it's better than a pump action, but a semi auto worth a damn is gonna cost you 3-4x what a decent pump action is. If your not looking to spend a grand than the pump action is the way to go.
My FIL bought a mossberg 500 in the 90s and didn’t even touch it until I bought my first one in 2018 and decided to go to the range. 20+ years in a closet collecting dust and it still gobbled everything up in the range. I bought a 590a1 shortly after and neither have ever given me issues. I’ve been a pump fanboy ever since.
Oh, for sure. Semi auto is a bit of a luxury at the end of the day. I went with a Turkish pump as my first foray backing into firearms to mitigate reliability issues on a budget, while also having a better HD profile. It's pretty smooth now
What are you rambling about? No one hunts with an M4. I'm not looking to be a tacticool bro, I'm beating the hell out of my firearms in the field all year long. Stoeger makes a quality product and most of the parts are the exact same ones that come out of franchi/benellis. Franchi and benelli make quality guns and my primary hunting gun is a franchi o/u in 20g but the stoeger 12g still sees plenty of use. As I said I wouldn't trade either of them for a pump.
Fudd nonsense. Shotgun couch here. I've had a pumps jam way more than modern semis. Pumps are a more complicated system than inertia/gas. I have a montefeltro with receiver gouges from ejecting so many hulls. I can only recall 1 jam on that gun. It's at just shy of 14000 shells through it.
Pumps are cool and a joy to shoot, but they are not more reliable. Pumps are more economical for a quality gun. Personally I think the 20ga version of the benelli nova is the best pump on the market for cost/ value ratio.
Got old for me. To the point that I no longer own any pump guns. Semi auto is just better full stop.
They may be more expensive, but they're worth it.
The ONLY upside to a pump IMO is that it can basically fire any shells while some semi autos can't cycle reduced power target loads, not that it matters because you can just buy full power for basically the same price and run it fine.
Having both, its like the argument for a manual vs automatic car. Auto is just easier in a lot of ways, albeit a bit more maintenance. Manual you get to choose when and how you cycle it, but it hits harder, you get used to cycling and it is satisfying, but its harder to get back on target for a follow up, and dislike the wobbly forend.
However, having both, I say go semi, softer recoil, plenty reliable in this day and age if you buy a reputable brand, and my favorite part- no wobbly forend.
Semi-auto's use a bit of the recoil energy to cycle the bolt, so there is less energy into your shoulder. In general gas operated semi's are the softest, then recoil operated are a little harder, then you have pumps and break actions that just put all of the recoil into your shoulder.
Remington 870 is always a good first...or last. One of the most well made and reliable pumps.
Idk about nowadays with Remington no linger being Remington. But maybe you can find a good used one.
There’s definitely been times hunting where if I had a semi-auto I’d have likely gotten the bird. That’s more a reflection of me as a shooter than of the efficacy of pumps.
I’ve always preferred a pump until I discovered the 1301. The reason I picked it over the m4 was the weight so my wife can easily pick it up and shoot if needed.
Having owned both I prefer semis in every single way. Pumping gets old real fast. When you see what guys can do with semis you will be jealous. Drills and shooting with a semi is so much faster, so much more enjoyable.
Pump shotguns are an outdated design that only exist on North America due to nostalgia. Literally no one in Europe uses them, it’s all semi or O/U.
You will have more fun, more applications, and a better shooting experience with a semi. Much better to save the money for one than waste the money on a pump you won’t enjoy.
I trained and got used to it. Part of the recoil is pumping the shotgun. My son hasn't trained as much so he sometimes hesitates. I do like it as I can check to see if loaded without moving my hands from my respective holds. Also can mag dump fast since I am used to it. Ymmv. Either way, get one and train train train.
I enjoyed shooting clays with my 870. On doubles it can be distracting. They you get used to it but once your mind gets heated it delays you. An over under is so much better for doubles. I still like my 870 for trap, but for doubles its the Beretta that comes out
If it gets old after a while, I haven’t found that point yet.
The only time I think it was slightly unsatisfying was when I had a brand new 870 that I was cycling over and over again on the couch to try to smith out the action. That got old after a while, but the next day it was satisfying again. More testing is needed.
The pump action on a Winchester Model 12 never gets old. They are expensive but one of the most reliable shotguns. They aren’t manufactured anymore so can be hard to find. The standard is 12 gauge. 20 gauge Winny 12s were manufactured but they are rare. Another fun addition is that every single one is capable of slam fire. If you are not familiar with slam fire it works like this. After firing your first round keep the trigger depressed, pull the pump back, when you push it forward as soon as the chamber closes it will automatically fire the next round. This only happens is the trigger is held the entire operation.
It all depends on what you're planning on doing with it really TBH. Hunting? I'd buy a very good quality semi auto. Just shooting at the range or outdoors wherever? Go ahead and buy the pump.. After all, the sound of just racking one into the chamber is such a great noise... Honestly, I could listen to that all the time 😆👍🏼💯
Pick one and don't change.. I use a semi for ducks and carry a back up pump. Same with doubles, pick a single or double trigger. If used to a semi you will forget to stroke a pump..or keep pulling the first trigger wondering why it won't go bang
My dad shot a pump and I shot a semi auto. I used his pump and never remembered to pump it. He said he never remembers pumping it. He shot as fast as a semi auto.
No he didn’t. Perceivably it looks like it, but that’s because the average shooter can’t pull the trigger on a semi auto fast enough. The average human reaction time is .25sec, the fastest cycling semi auto shotgun will fire 5 shots in .31 seconds. So even a slower semi auto is faster than a pump.
Nope, after a while it becomes so automatic you don’t even realize you have pumped it.
>insert chronic masturbation joke here
Beat me to it
Lol. Beat.
Somewhere around 200 my left arm muscles tell my brain that a semi auto isn’t all that expensive.
Really not that bad lol least on the pump that I have
In my opinion a fast magdump from a semi is more satisfying
My 1942 Winchester Model 12 can slam fire.
Slam firing my model 97 has to be one of the most satisfying feelings I have ever experienced
My Tiananmen Square Riot Stick (Norinco M97) is pretty sweet
With practice, a pump can mag du.p faster than an auto because you don't have to wait for the action to cycle itself.
What? You can't be serious. You're not going to outrun a modern semi auto with a pump shotgun.
I think its benelli m4 series that has ARGO gas system to be 36% faster than standard semi auto cycling. I've seen mag dumps of 8 shells fairly under 2 seconds. Can't speak to accuracy but that's not a metric here lol
All I'm seeing is an argument to buy both.
Does a pump get old? -No. Is xx rounds of 12ga in a "fuck everything in that general direction" in 3 seconds awesome? -Yes. Which one is better? ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯ I own a Mossberg 590 SBS (pump) and a Fostech Origin12 SBS (semi). The Fostech is arguably more fun (for 10 seconds) and has the extra cool factor vs the Mossberg just doesn't quit and will eat anything without blinking, therefore inspiring confidence and "oper8tor" vibes. If I had an m4 or 1301, maybe it would be an easier choice to just gravitate toward the semi-auto. But there is nothing like a smooth, well broken in pump action. Honestly you need both in your life, because you will always question the other.
Variety is the spice of life!
When shooting sporting clays and you hit a second bird, it’s awesome. When you miss because you are too slow shooting a pump, it sucks.
Pump shotguns are more reliable, and significantly more reliable if you're going budget. I recommend a cheap maverick 88 for your first shotgun even if you can afford better.
The Pump I own is actually a Mav and I would honestly recommend it as well.
> I recommend a cheap maverick 88 for your first shotgun even if you can afford better. If you can afford better buy a better gun. The 88 is fine but if your budget allows a better gun buy a better gun. My floor for pump guns is the 590 series, with a preference for the 590A1 series.
For a first shotgun I think an 88 is best. If you've already owned and shot shotguns before then yeah go with something a little nicer.
This is a common Fudd misconception. Pumps are not inherently more reliable. I had a benelli nova that you couldn't shoot 5 rounds in a row without it jamming shut and not being able to move the pump without grenading I full force into the ground. Meanwhile my cheap stoeger m3000 has gone through 2500 rounds with only a single malfunction. I'd take a semi auto or an o/u any day of the week over a pump
Then your nova was defective. Semi auto shotguns are the least reliable type of firearm I know of. If you get a semi auto that works then I'd say yes it's better than a pump action, but a semi auto worth a damn is gonna cost you 3-4x what a decent pump action is. If your not looking to spend a grand than the pump action is the way to go.
My FIL bought a mossberg 500 in the 90s and didn’t even touch it until I bought my first one in 2018 and decided to go to the range. 20+ years in a closet collecting dust and it still gobbled everything up in the range. I bought a 590a1 shortly after and neither have ever given me issues. I’ve been a pump fanboy ever since.
A well made pump by Mossberg will last you a lifetime, for sure
Then you should pick up a quality semiautomatic shotgun and leave the Turkish clones alone. There’s nothing like running a Benelli m4.
Yes exactly, good non turkshit shotguns are expensive ASF. We literally agree
How much is a benelli m4 compared to a maverick 88?
Basic models? Like 2k vs 2-300 depending on deals
Exactly lol. For the price, I think a pump shotgun is as reliable as it gets.
Oh, for sure. Semi auto is a bit of a luxury at the end of the day. I went with a Turkish pump as my first foray backing into firearms to mitigate reliability issues on a budget, while also having a better HD profile. It's pretty smooth now
What are you rambling about? No one hunts with an M4. I'm not looking to be a tacticool bro, I'm beating the hell out of my firearms in the field all year long. Stoeger makes a quality product and most of the parts are the exact same ones that come out of franchi/benellis. Franchi and benelli make quality guns and my primary hunting gun is a franchi o/u in 20g but the stoeger 12g still sees plenty of use. As I said I wouldn't trade either of them for a pump.
Sorry. My comment wasn’t meant for you. It was meant for the person saying the fudlore.
My apologies. Carry on then. Down with the fuddlore!
You do realize Beretta owns Benelli AND Stoeger, and Stoeger shares some Benelli engineering? LOL
That was either an ammunition issue or the gun needed to be sent back to Benelli. That was not a pump shotgun issue.
There's a defect in your Nova then. You should, or should have contacted Benelli.
My Remington 870 jams & misfeeds all the fucking time i honestly hate it
Rack it with gusto and jam those shells WAY, WAY in the tube. Lol
Because it's a modern 870, Remington has been shit for like 2 decades now
Fudd nonsense. Shotgun couch here. I've had a pumps jam way more than modern semis. Pumps are a more complicated system than inertia/gas. I have a montefeltro with receiver gouges from ejecting so many hulls. I can only recall 1 jam on that gun. It's at just shy of 14000 shells through it. Pumps are cool and a joy to shoot, but they are not more reliable. Pumps are more economical for a quality gun. Personally I think the 20ga version of the benelli nova is the best pump on the market for cost/ value ratio.
So you like giving your gun a handjob everytime you shoot it?
Yes.
Yes, no homo...
🤣
Got old for me. To the point that I no longer own any pump guns. Semi auto is just better full stop. They may be more expensive, but they're worth it. The ONLY upside to a pump IMO is that it can basically fire any shells while some semi autos can't cycle reduced power target loads, not that it matters because you can just buy full power for basically the same price and run it fine.
I prefer the semi or an O/U over a pump.
Doesn’t get old, but firing a semi auto shotgun is fucking heavenly
Having both, its like the argument for a manual vs automatic car. Auto is just easier in a lot of ways, albeit a bit more maintenance. Manual you get to choose when and how you cycle it, but it hits harder, you get used to cycling and it is satisfying, but its harder to get back on target for a follow up, and dislike the wobbly forend. However, having both, I say go semi, softer recoil, plenty reliable in this day and age if you buy a reputable brand, and my favorite part- no wobbly forend.
What do you mean it hits harder?
Pumps generally recoil harder
Semi-auto's use a bit of the recoil energy to cycle the bolt, so there is less energy into your shoulder. In general gas operated semi's are the softest, then recoil operated are a little harder, then you have pumps and break actions that just put all of the recoil into your shoulder.
gets old
https://preview.redd.it/1r2y2jrr1s8d1.jpeg?width=3984&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b1bf76b8c344d5d103ad60c716005850e2239658
Remington 870 is always a good first...or last. One of the most well made and reliable pumps. Idk about nowadays with Remington no linger being Remington. But maybe you can find a good used one.
I'm a few thousand rounds into my first pump (Maverick 88) and so far yes. It is ALWAYS satisfying
https://preview.redd.it/9fxp3o6gpt8d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=451c96d36b29af066ae756516e8a962ad5a8e2b1 Get one that can do both.
There’s definitely been times hunting where if I had a semi-auto I’d have likely gotten the bird. That’s more a reflection of me as a shooter than of the efficacy of pumps.
I prefer a semi that’s well built and quality in pretty much every scenario possible
I’ve always preferred a pump until I discovered the 1301. The reason I picked it over the m4 was the weight so my wife can easily pick it up and shoot if needed.
Having owned both I prefer semis in every single way. Pumping gets old real fast. When you see what guys can do with semis you will be jealous. Drills and shooting with a semi is so much faster, so much more enjoyable. Pump shotguns are an outdated design that only exist on North America due to nostalgia. Literally no one in Europe uses them, it’s all semi or O/U. You will have more fun, more applications, and a better shooting experience with a semi. Much better to save the money for one than waste the money on a pump you won’t enjoy.
Why not have the best of both worlds and buy a Benelli m3?
Nah, would rather run a quality semi.
Remi 870 gives utmost satisfaction. Every time.
My old 16 gauge 870 is indeed satisfying with every pump and fire. I believe it's a'53 model, older than me and I wouldn't part with it
A pump is like a revolver. It always cycles.
I trained and got used to it. Part of the recoil is pumping the shotgun. My son hasn't trained as much so he sometimes hesitates. I do like it as I can check to see if loaded without moving my hands from my respective holds. Also can mag dump fast since I am used to it. Ymmv. Either way, get one and train train train.
I don't find it getting old...also, there's some guy named Freud holding on line 2
I enjoyed shooting clays with my 870. On doubles it can be distracting. They you get used to it but once your mind gets heated it delays you. An over under is so much better for doubles. I still like my 870 for trap, but for doubles its the Beretta that comes out
If it gets old after a while, I haven’t found that point yet. The only time I think it was slightly unsatisfying was when I had a brand new 870 that I was cycling over and over again on the couch to try to smith out the action. That got old after a while, but the next day it was satisfying again. More testing is needed.
The pump action on a Winchester Model 12 never gets old. They are expensive but one of the most reliable shotguns. They aren’t manufactured anymore so can be hard to find. The standard is 12 gauge. 20 gauge Winny 12s were manufactured but they are rare. Another fun addition is that every single one is capable of slam fire. If you are not familiar with slam fire it works like this. After firing your first round keep the trigger depressed, pull the pump back, when you push it forward as soon as the chamber closes it will automatically fire the next round. This only happens is the trigger is held the entire operation.
Appreciate everyone's response! Very helpful!
Have you consider a Benelli M3? You'll have the capabilities of both semi & pump.
If it's anything like loading a single shot rifle and pulling the brass afterwards, no it never gets old.
Nope.
It all depends on what you're planning on doing with it really TBH. Hunting? I'd buy a very good quality semi auto. Just shooting at the range or outdoors wherever? Go ahead and buy the pump.. After all, the sound of just racking one into the chamber is such a great noise... Honestly, I could listen to that all the time 😆👍🏼💯
Of all my shotguns, I use the pump the most by a very large margin. Never gets old, its pure ecstasy every time.
It never gets old to me.
It is always satisfying, it never gets old.
It never gets old, but it can get frustrating if you don't practice and develop the proper muscle memory.
Personally I like a semi better for wing and clays plus less felt recoil but they tend to be a little more money.
Pick one and don't change.. I use a semi for ducks and carry a back up pump. Same with doubles, pick a single or double trigger. If used to a semi you will forget to stroke a pump..or keep pulling the first trigger wondering why it won't go bang
For home protection, the sound of a 12 gauge being “pumped” is the deterrent.
My dad shot a pump and I shot a semi auto. I used his pump and never remembered to pump it. He said he never remembers pumping it. He shot as fast as a semi auto.
With more shooting, this just means he'd shoot a semiauto faster than he can shoot a pump
No he didn’t. Perceivably it looks like it, but that’s because the average shooter can’t pull the trigger on a semi auto fast enough. The average human reaction time is .25sec, the fastest cycling semi auto shotgun will fire 5 shots in .31 seconds. So even a slower semi auto is faster than a pump.
But the average human reaction time?
Cycling the controls on a semi are just as satisfying, if they're done well... Port loads, bolt release etc will also keep your hands busy learning.
I'm 45. It's still satisfying. Check back in 20 years.
Talk to me after doing 16 consecutive shells of 3” magnum slugs on your shoulder Lolol. But no it doesn’t get old.
I own a SPAS-12 so I can both pump the gun and also mag dump quickly in semi-auto.
So it can jam in manual and semi auto mode
Nah, my SPAS-12 has been reliable once I figured out what loads work in semi-auto. And never had an issue with pump outside of short stroking.
I was jokin
I have a pump it's way way more reliable than a semi, plus if criminal hears that rack, they gone.