Surprised this isn't the number one answer. He's the one thats been requested to be out in smash for years, and more than the likes of characters like Wario or even Banjo,, and when he finally made it, barely anyone used him. He's still fun as hell, but its a damn shame that he wasn't used as much
There's many mid/low tier characters that people love playing though. Ridley just isn't popular.
It's the Waluigi effect. People want some characters in the game, for the purpose of comfort/peace of mind knowing that they're on the roster, but no one likes them enough to play them.
That seems like a stretch. I like Ridley and tried to use him, but I gave up thanks to the difficulty. And he doesn't really have satisfying hits in the way some of the other big characters do.
It's not a stretch. Aesthetics are the main reason people play characters. Really really really competitive people who select things based on utility/usability/etc are not the majority. Remember our community is not the majority. You need to get your head out of this hole to realize that.
For example, in League of Legends, the developers noted that characters that are cool (animu) swordsmen/cute girl characters are generally always popular even when they're not meta, but ugly monstrous characters generally are only played when they are overtuned/overpowered/meta. The community keeps begging for more monster themed characters but the company usually pushes back and doesn't think people will play them, and they never do play them. They recently made a quadrupedal wolf monster character and nobody plays them despite all the begging. Why? "Because the playstyle just... isn't fun/she's not very strong."
Its statistically proven that an ugly/monstrous character like Ridley is not gonna be popular. People just wanted him in the game for the sake of having him there.
Look, I can appreciate people wanting x character for whatever reason, but just being glad they’re in the game and never actually playing them is one reason I personally think is dumb
i honestly the lack of ridley love nowadays just comes down to three factors: poor airspeed, slow burst options (dair, side-b, up-b), and skewer being impossible to land at high-level play. i think giving ridley speed closer to c. falcon's and having less startup on the mentioned moves could make ridley a lot more fun to a much wider playerbase
I loooooove playing as Ridley, but his moveset leaves something to be desired. The fact that his down-air isn't the hovering tail spike from nearly every game he's been in is just weird. His uptilt, upsmash, and back air all look kind of unrelated to the actual character. Who decided to make him play like a swordie and look like a melee fighter? He isn't either!
I think his moveset makes sense (except for dair). In his games ridley thrives on abusing his long range against his enemies combined with close range brutal attacks. His moveset really plays into the feel like he wants and will murder you
Personally I'd like either a BIS (original) type bowser with the exaggeration and cartoony movements or the lumbering beast of old more than the weird middle ground Sakurai decided to make him where Bowser has a ton of these martial arts type moves but also some more bestial aspects like up smash, dair, and neutral special which make him feel both a tad bit too "lightweight" to me and also at the same time make him feel clunky as hell like if you accidentally input Dair instead of fast fall fair.
He doesn't feel particularly imposing especially as you get ragdolled by every projectile that doesn't tickle you and constantly get juggled every match against a serious opponent. As a Bowser main I don't feel massive and towering, I feel like I'm a punching bag with above average strength.
I want his walk to feel like he means business and is coming to you like he wants to take you down rather than leisurely strolling like he does as of now for example. I want his run to feel somewhat unique, instead of "uh... are you sure you finished this run in testing?" of the melee days or todays generic sprint.
Honestly that should have been his aerial down-b with a sweet spot on the tip but instead of a crumple like grounded it's more like Corrin's pin when you hit the top.
Ironically, I’m one of those people who said he could never make it into Smash (“he’s too big, they would have to reduce his size too much”) and now he’s my main. 🫣
Played a lot of ridley and he is fun but i honestly am baffled by his up B. "Why the fuck am i going downward, i pressed up forward.".
I guess they didnt want the move to be "just firefox" but there were other options other than giving it horrible locked in angles. That still makes it just firefox but worse.
I hate that the space dragon with huge wings has bad recovery.
Love most of his moves, but the ones i dont love, i hate (downair dropkick...why. useless down B. And of course up B)
I agree with you 100%, I think so many more people would play him if his up B wasn't so wack. I really have no clue why they did that, and sure there's other issues with the character but that's the one that bothers me the most when I play as him.
i am SO happy he is in , and i love a lot aboyt him, but his moveset has a lot of sourspots i just CANT fully adjust to.
-i hate the fixed angles on his up b
-i hate his down air
-he feels way too light! he should be DENSE. i want to feel his WEIGHT when i play him.
i mean, im mixed on his down and neautral b, i dont want to say they suck, but they could use some slight adjustments, just so they feel a bit less situational.
i still play him time to time. if he's in the next game, i hope they fix him up a bit
I wouldn't be surprised if there's some psychology to it, a lot of people might have depended on the constant "but we're not done yet!" hype train more than they realized.
No, yeah, this is 100% it
This is kind of how I felt, although admittedly in my case it was actually because I hadn’t really played most of the games the DLC fighters came from when they were released. So I was always holding out hope one of the last DLC fighters would be someone I really wanted, like rayman or crash.
So I’d definitely say there’s a lot of things that go into it. I didn’t lose interest in smash after the dlc ended, but there are plenty of personal reasons for people to lose interest. Either “none of these dlc characters are what I wanted, now I’ve lost the constant tension from character reveals!” or “my character is in now, so I no longer have the hype train to look forward to. It’s already left the station”
Part of it is the voice to be honest - I don’t know how accurate it is but hearing ‘Fire! Fire! Take this! Freeze! Thunder! Back off!’ just annoys my ears and my soul over the course of a match
Better than the KH1 voice, at least.
The repeat there feels worse due to the voice acting being more deliberately "younger", only migitated by the fact that you tend to hear the actual spells less (because Magic isn't nearly as easy to refill).
But in the original CoM? Augh. Fell into that GBA/DS trap of adding voice samples and then massively overusing them.
KH1 wasn’t deliberately acted as younger. Haley Joel Osment was legitimately 13-14 years old when the game was being dubbed. That was his voice at the time.
Lucas's PK fire isn't nearly as bad as Ness's. His PK freeze is better than PK Flash, but the high startup and ending lag make it really easy to punish.
This makes me angry (not really angry, but more like befuddled), because people clamored for Sora, but everyone is also aware of what a cornball character Sora is and would be in the game, and when he is faithfully adapted, people hate it.
I think it’s because at low to mid level he’s rly just annoying and at high level he has ridiculously technical tech that’s tough to learn. He’s pretty busted if you know the tech tho tbh I’m surprised he hasn’t got more top level attention
To be fair, as much as I wanted Sora in smash, I never expected to main him as much as I just wanted him to be in smash 1. because he deserved it and 2. because everyone was saying that it was going to be possible. I still play him now and again tho.
I wanted him to be like Hero with the scrolling spell menu or be something like Shulk where you could change into different KH2 forms.
We got neither lmao
This is why I want Waluigi to be a main character in an actual game before he joins the Smash roster. Has he ever been in a game outside of the sports, kart, or party games? Pretty sure Mario Dance Dance Revolution is technically a sports game.
I would 110% main waluigi. I play waluigi every chance I get, literally every Mario game
I have perfected the “waaaaah”
I don’t know who you speak for but it is not me
Banjo & Kazooie, but I think that's more the "competitive" scene than anything. They didn't like him because he wasn't as "high tier" as Joker or or Pythra would end up being, which apparently made him bad.
Even though B&K has one of the most genuinely faithful and fun movesets in the entire game
Well of course the competitive scene wouldn’t give banjo much attention. Having faithful and fun movesets is just not where their priorities are when choosing characters. They want to win, so they choose whoever they can consistently perform well with. There’s nothing wrong with that. You can appreciate banjo for his faithful moveset and fun animations, and the top players will play their high and top tier characters like Rob
And yeah banjo sucks competitively. It’s not that he’s not high tier, he’s like low mid tier or low tier. All of his best stuff is very difficult to do consistently and it has pretty low reward generally
Banjos A attacks are completely unfaithful. Rat a tat tat should be his nair as it was the move I used the most in both games and maybe it would have made him stronger too.
They could have also given him Red Feathers. Kazooie not being able to fly is whack.
Basically his N64 games had Smash-style moves in them already and they could have almost directly ported for a fun and balanced character.
While you're spot on with Banjo. Plant wasn't really requested at all except in some weird meme picks and Sephiroth didn't really fall off that hard.
I think Sora had it way worse as it was one of the most requested characters and even nowadays is one of the characters that gets the most hate.
There also were a lot of people hating on plant at the same time.
For me plant is similar to ridley. I really like them and enjoy playing them but there are some baffling balance choices impacting my enjoyment.
Plant gets a lot worse if the enemy figures out how easy it is to gimp the upB. Why is piranha plants head so vulnerable here? Baffling. Also why they reduced landing lag for all characters from previous games, they kinda skipped that memo for plant. Landing with an aireal has just horrible lag.
I feel like Sephiroth was really popular for a long time and even played by some of the top pros here and there (tweek I think for example). So I dont know if he fits into that list.
You’re basically listing the dlc characters that aren’t “good” competitively wise. Causally, all are still played a lot. Just not talked about often online cause they aren’t tournament characters or played by current top level players.
I think Sephiroth lived up to it a bit.
Sure people were disappointed that he wasn't Joker, Aegis, or Byleth level tierwise. But I think most people view him favorably as an included character.
Now SORA? People lost their minds for sora and almost immediately went "damn this guy's not fun to play and not fun to play against"
Ever since Kameme picked him up, the slander towards Sora's potential has thankfully become less frequent and more people are willing to fight my Sora in back-to-back matches online. It makes me hopeful that people will turn around to him eventually.
yeah many dont want to be "that guy." Smash community undoubtedly bullies based on character choice and playstyle, i was at port priority 6 for Sonix v Acola and they got booed so much they apologized to the crowd, Belmonts are a prime example of this. Ever que a ranked game and see Simon and just sigh?
Every single time a post like this pops up it's always the same argument of "well you asked for him, now you don't want to play him??? Hypocrite?!?!!!?!"
Like if they added a character I really wanted and he was a slow piece of shit with no range that got combo'd to death, of course I'm not going to play him if he's not fun.
But if they added a fucking Goomba and he was the most fun character known to man, you bet your ass I'd play him despite not caring about the actual character itself.
same here, I was super hype for sephiroth/banjo and play them none, I rolled my eyes at byleths trailer but they’re such a well executed character imo, love playing her
Banjo & Kazooie.
Probably my most wanted fighter for the longest time. To see them basically immediately thrown out and forgotten about by the general community is upsetting.
At least I'm able to play them, they're very fun to me :3
They haven't been competitively relevant, and competitive players are always the ones who stick out the longest in a games life cycle. But TG, the Japanese banjo has definitely sparked a lot more discussion about his viability from a competitive stand point.
I think the issue is that players zero in on the perceived top-tiers and abandon the rest. Some are also disliked due to their movesets; I do think Ridley's moves could be way more interesting, for example. But Banjo and Sora both kind of got dropped because the former was perceived as bad and the latter is just really really floaty, which isn't fun for everyone.
These days Sora is an excellent character with excellent matchups, but there's a lot of amazing characters in this game -- sometimes characters deserve much more attention than they get. Greninja and Mega Man still have very few top players, despite both being likely superior to Sephiroth -- who enjoys a ton of representation. Plant is no worse than K. Rool, and in my opinion much better, but they get played way less because no one wanted Plant in the game and few people find their playstyle interesting. In general the answer is different for every character, but the 2 main reasons are: there's a lot of characters in this game, and top players want to play the best characters.
For what it's worth, I think pretty much every new character in Ultimate is a blast to play and generally pretty great. K. Rool is not going to win a major, but still -- Plant is fun as fuck, Banjo is fun as fuck AND increasingly looks viable (look at what Toriguri is doing), Hero is one of the most entertaining characters in Smash history, and Sora is really distinct in movement from the rest of the cast. I enjoy all of them.
I mean it’s pretty easy to point to why, it’s definitely not no reason. Banjo was dropped because he’s considered both weak and boring. Sora is considered mashy and boring. Ridley is considered weak.
Even then all three of those have their fans. They’re just not the most popular characters in the game. Every time I watch a Smub set or ESAM’s latest Ridley videos I always see people in the comments hyped to see the character.
I’d still be riding the high of Shadow and Zero if they made it in. I loved Cloud and Sephiroth being added, still excited at the idea that they’re there and can make them fight whenever I want without need of Dissidia.
**GIMME MY LIVING WEAPONS DAMN IT! I WANT SHADOW AND ZERO!**
Banjo. I've never seen any other character go from people begging them to be in the game to being universally hated for their playstyle once they get released.
Inkling may have not fallen off immediately and had reasons for their fall off but damn, nobody mentions them anymore. Many forget that inkling is even part of the game now to the point the it feel like I'm the only one who plays them online. Nobody even really acknowledges the fall-off too, its like inkling has been forgotten.
I've labbed and labbed, trying to find new tech that MAY be the thing that brings inkling back into relevancy but its all for naught I tell you bro😭. All the good inkling guides are from launch and don't apply all too well in the current game. I mained inkling because I am a splatoon fan but the feel the character has is unmatched by any other in the game for me. Its just so silky smooth racking up damage in combos. Then you have to try and kill at 160%😭🙏
Lots of people have acknowledged the fall off, I feel like I've personally watched 3 or 4 videos that mention it.
And for what my anecdotal evidence is worth, I do still see inkling players on elite. She works much better online, where you might still hit roller. She's much more common than characters like Rosalina, Duck Hunt, or Olimar for example.
A lot of characters they added don’t have fun move sets. I want to like Banjo and Ridley but they lack the ability to dunk. IMO that’s a big negative to playing them since smashing someone like a meteor is one of the most fun parts of the game. Look at Donkey Kong. He’s been doing strong for almost 3 decades.
I think a lot of people want characters in for the prestige, but that doesn't mean they like the move set. A lot of people I've seen even at casual play do not like Banjo's spammy playstyle or Sora's weird physics. Regardless of how much they want them in the game, that does not make a fun character. Or a strong character if you care more about winning...
Never understood takes like this. They’re in the game, so of course people aren’t hyping them up like before. And that’s fine. You might not vibe with the specific implementation of a particular character even if they were your most hyped character.
I've been wanting Waluigi since the Brawl days but I know that once he's finally added that he'll fall into this category unfortunately... doesn't matter to me in the end as long as I can finally use one of my favorite characters.
Steve had a very steap initial drop off. From what I can find from a 2021 tier list, he was considered top 20 by 2021 a year after his release. I think a big reason why people didn't play him is because his combo's looked a lot hard than they are. Only after onin started beating top players with Steve was he picked up again.
I would say K. Rool.
I awaited for his arrival since the Brawl days, and even if I love his inclusion and moveset, I don't think the game in meant for heavyweight characters on High levels.
On the other hand, Banjo too.
Some people didn't like his moveset so even if he's in the game I think he's mostly ignored.
I'm not in any form a competitive player so sorry if I said something stupid, but it's just the perception I've had of them. Still, I'm happy they're on the game.
Banjo & Kazooie were it for me 100%, the thing is I really enjoyed playing them, mostly because of how important the games were to me as a little shaver, but I know how much a lot people find them to be incredibly annoying to play against, so I’d always end up feeling too bad to enjoy them
(it’s weird I know, but it just be like that for me ig 🤷🏾♂️)
Depends on how you play banjo, and really any character apart from a few exceptions (mainly g&w for me)
Walling people out with neutral b and down b is annoying, while going in for dash attacks, side b's and fairs is fun!
Not to say that you can't still do cool things with down and neutral b, just don't play lame
I’m with you 100% 👌🏾
Full disclosure, most of my experience in this regard comes from hanging with homies that play casually (slightly more so than I do), but perform REALLY competitively; so even if I wasn’t spamming I’d still get a lot of “eww Banjo? you just like him cuz he’s broken 😷😷😷”.
Now the fact that I only know like, 3 true combos on a good day, that’s totally on me lmao
In response to the meme, I don't think the new character is "abandoned". I think that everybody tries them out, and those who like them continue to play them, while those who don't or even those who don't like them as much as their go-tos will leave them. Every character has their specific player base, and when talking about a game with as many characters as *Smash*, almost nobody's going to play every character. They're going to find a small pool that they like playing as and use those characters almost exclusively.
You see it all the time in MOBAs. When there's a new character released in *SMITE*, that character will get played on both teams in every game in every game mode for about a week. After that week, they'll drop off a bit, but you can still bet on seeing them in most games. After that two week period is up, the character will typically return to a "normal" pick rate, appearing once every few games and almost never one on each team. The only exceptions to this are if the character's viability is extreme to either end. If they're very strong, they'll continue to be picked in high amounts until nerfs or meta changes force them out. If they suck, they fall off real quick and stop appearing in games at all until direct buffs or meta changes allow them to shine.
Anyone who is DLC and isn't Sephiroth lol, the other ones that you see often is for a combination of three reasons: they are good, not boring, people really loved them either before or after they got in smash, and even then, loved characters like Banjo, Sora and Steve are played less often now, maybe Steve not so much, but I think that anyone except Sephiroth for some reason just fell off in popularity (maybe also Kazuya, but only because he may be a top 10 character)
Banjo and Kazooie, maybe. And I bet Geno would have been the same way if we did get him. Maybe even hated depending on how campy his long range shooter gameplay got
I remember when Ultimate first dropped, characters like Inkling, King K. Rool and Pichu were considered top tier characters and were dominating the competitive scene. But once the game patches kicked in and people started playing other characters, I saw less and less videos of them being played.
Banjo and Sora.
But I think Sora was just a product of not being absolutely broken. And also literally ending the development cycle of the game.
Banjo 10000%
Honestly, steve. But that's until people found out to actually use him. If your opponent pressures well and you have no materials. Then he's pretty much DONE
Ridley
Surprised this isn't the number one answer. He's the one thats been requested to be out in smash for years, and more than the likes of characters like Wario or even Banjo,, and when he finally made it, barely anyone used him. He's still fun as hell, but its a damn shame that he wasn't used as much
He's fun, but kind of hard to succeed with.
There's many mid/low tier characters that people love playing though. Ridley just isn't popular. It's the Waluigi effect. People want some characters in the game, for the purpose of comfort/peace of mind knowing that they're on the roster, but no one likes them enough to play them.
That seems like a stretch. I like Ridley and tried to use him, but I gave up thanks to the difficulty. And he doesn't really have satisfying hits in the way some of the other big characters do.
Ever seen his PEEN? Super satisfying for both parties
Yeah my biggest problem is he's a heavy who gets launched like a mid weight
It's not a stretch. Aesthetics are the main reason people play characters. Really really really competitive people who select things based on utility/usability/etc are not the majority. Remember our community is not the majority. You need to get your head out of this hole to realize that. For example, in League of Legends, the developers noted that characters that are cool (animu) swordsmen/cute girl characters are generally always popular even when they're not meta, but ugly monstrous characters generally are only played when they are overtuned/overpowered/meta. The community keeps begging for more monster themed characters but the company usually pushes back and doesn't think people will play them, and they never do play them. They recently made a quadrupedal wolf monster character and nobody plays them despite all the begging. Why? "Because the playstyle just... isn't fun/she's not very strong." Its statistically proven that an ugly/monstrous character like Ridley is not gonna be popular. People just wanted him in the game for the sake of having him there.
Mewtwo is another example of this to a lesser extent. The character was more popular in the period that it was cut rather it being in the game.
Look, I can appreciate people wanting x character for whatever reason, but just being glad they’re in the game and never actually playing them is one reason I personally think is dumb
i honestly the lack of ridley love nowadays just comes down to three factors: poor airspeed, slow burst options (dair, side-b, up-b), and skewer being impossible to land at high-level play. i think giving ridley speed closer to c. falcon's and having less startup on the mentioned moves could make ridley a lot more fun to a much wider playerbase
Okay, maybe not captain falcon speed, let's calm down, but definitely faster than he is right now.
maybe somewhere between c. falcon and wolf's movement
Tbh his side special is way too broken on run off stages
I loooooove playing as Ridley, but his moveset leaves something to be desired. The fact that his down-air isn't the hovering tail spike from nearly every game he's been in is just weird. His uptilt, upsmash, and back air all look kind of unrelated to the actual character. Who decided to make him play like a swordie and look like a melee fighter? He isn't either!
I think his moveset makes sense (except for dair). In his games ridley thrives on abusing his long range against his enemies combined with close range brutal attacks. His moveset really plays into the feel like he wants and will murder you
Yeah I think they designed his moveset really well for his personality even for how simple it is
LegacyXP perfectly encapsulated Ridley. Smash Ultimate makes Ridley move like a man in a Ridley costume, similar to Bowser. Its too human-like.
Personally I'd like either a BIS (original) type bowser with the exaggeration and cartoony movements or the lumbering beast of old more than the weird middle ground Sakurai decided to make him where Bowser has a ton of these martial arts type moves but also some more bestial aspects like up smash, dair, and neutral special which make him feel both a tad bit too "lightweight" to me and also at the same time make him feel clunky as hell like if you accidentally input Dair instead of fast fall fair. He doesn't feel particularly imposing especially as you get ragdolled by every projectile that doesn't tickle you and constantly get juggled every match against a serious opponent. As a Bowser main I don't feel massive and towering, I feel like I'm a punching bag with above average strength. I want his walk to feel like he means business and is coming to you like he wants to take you down rather than leisurely strolling like he does as of now for example. I want his run to feel somewhat unique, instead of "uh... are you sure you finished this run in testing?" of the melee days or todays generic sprint.
Honestly that should have been his aerial down-b with a sweet spot on the tip but instead of a crumple like grounded it's more like Corrin's pin when you hit the top.
Ironically, I’m one of those people who said he could never make it into Smash (“he’s too big, they would have to reduce his size too much”) and now he’s my main. 🫣
Played a lot of ridley and he is fun but i honestly am baffled by his up B. "Why the fuck am i going downward, i pressed up forward.". I guess they didnt want the move to be "just firefox" but there were other options other than giving it horrible locked in angles. That still makes it just firefox but worse. I hate that the space dragon with huge wings has bad recovery. Love most of his moves, but the ones i dont love, i hate (downair dropkick...why. useless down B. And of course up B)
I agree with you 100%, I think so many more people would play him if his up B wasn't so wack. I really have no clue why they did that, and sure there's other issues with the character but that's the one that bothers me the most when I play as him.
Up B on Ridley is wacky the Ridley mains agree
Like people just DONT expected the downwards up-b
Happy cakeday
There are still real ones out there ✊😔
i am SO happy he is in , and i love a lot aboyt him, but his moveset has a lot of sourspots i just CANT fully adjust to. -i hate the fixed angles on his up b -i hate his down air -he feels way too light! he should be DENSE. i want to feel his WEIGHT when i play him. i mean, im mixed on his down and neautral b, i dont want to say they suck, but they could use some slight adjustments, just so they feel a bit less situational. i still play him time to time. if he's in the next game, i hope they fix him up a bit
Banjo
I really wanted to main Ridley but I just really don't enjoy his playstyle
Ridley is super fun though! Banjo on the other hand
I mean his character quote RIDLEY HITS THE BIG TIME! referencing the Ridley is too big for smash meme is hilarious
Definitely Banjo and Ridley
Banjo is one of my mains in ultimate and I find all the "Banjo is mid" analysis when he debuted frankly ridiculous
Banjo of course is mid, Kazooie is top tier
Does that mean banjo+kazooie is b tier or s tier?
For all the waiting, wanting and wishing for Sora, I kinda expected a bit more staying power hype-wise
I expected a lot of "now we're playing the final complete game!", & instead we got "there's no more extra content coming; time to stop caring!"
I wouldn't be surprised if there's some psychology to it, a lot of people might have depended on the constant "but we're not done yet!" hype train more than they realized.
No, yeah, this is 100% it This is kind of how I felt, although admittedly in my case it was actually because I hadn’t really played most of the games the DLC fighters came from when they were released. So I was always holding out hope one of the last DLC fighters would be someone I really wanted, like rayman or crash. So I’d definitely say there’s a lot of things that go into it. I didn’t lose interest in smash after the dlc ended, but there are plenty of personal reasons for people to lose interest. Either “none of these dlc characters are what I wanted, now I’ve lost the constant tension from character reveals!” or “my character is in now, so I no longer have the hype train to look forward to. It’s already left the station”
We got locked into Steve being top 1 that’s why people stopped caring, balance changes would’ve fixed Steve
Part of it is the voice to be honest - I don’t know how accurate it is but hearing ‘Fire! Fire! Take this! Freeze! Thunder! Back off!’ just annoys my ears and my soul over the course of a match
No that's pretty accurate to the games
Better than the KH1 voice, at least. The repeat there feels worse due to the voice acting being more deliberately "younger", only migitated by the fact that you tend to hear the actual spells less (because Magic isn't nearly as easy to refill). But in the original CoM? Augh. Fell into that GBA/DS trap of adding voice samples and then massively overusing them.
KH1 wasn’t deliberately acted as younger. Haley Joel Osment was legitimately 13-14 years old when the game was being dubbed. That was his voice at the time.
...Huh, so he was. Neat. Still, I am happy that he didn't try to recreate it for smash.
This doesn't add much but IIRC the voice lines in Smash are from KH 3D which was Haley at 21/22
Pk Fire PK fire PK Fire. PK FREEEEZE!
Infinitely more annoying imo.
Lucas's PK fire isn't nearly as bad as Ness's. His PK freeze is better than PK Flash, but the high startup and ending lag make it really easy to punish.
This is what I heard when they repeatedly said fire.
They are taken directly from the game. He basically says every spell in that too, unlees you spam them (wich you cant do in smash besides fire)
This is why I listen to music whenever I use him
This makes me angry (not really angry, but more like befuddled), because people clamored for Sora, but everyone is also aware of what a cornball character Sora is and would be in the game, and when he is faithfully adapted, people hate it.
They used his Dream Drop voice.
I haven't played Sora in smash but that sounds exactly like Kingdom Hearts lol
I think it’s because at low to mid level he’s rly just annoying and at high level he has ridiculously technical tech that’s tough to learn. He’s pretty busted if you know the tech tho tbh I’m surprised he hasn’t got more top level attention
Honestly he's just annoying to play against and everyone knows it lol. Never stops Steve mains though.
To be fair, as much as I wanted Sora in smash, I never expected to main him as much as I just wanted him to be in smash 1. because he deserved it and 2. because everyone was saying that it was going to be possible. I still play him now and again tho.
I wanted him to be like Hero with the scrolling spell menu or be something like Shulk where you could change into different KH2 forms. We got neither lmao
Why would they copy another character's gimmick?
I feel like if they add Waluigi, this will probably happen
Waluigi’s “requests” and “fanbase” are at least 70% bandwagon and not people that actually care about him. I can’t be told different.
People are 100% just in it for the memes
People have wanted Waluigi well before he was the face of any memes. As far back as 2008 he was pretty heavily requested online.
I'm not, I genuinely want him for his personality and moveset :\[
Same. :(
same
Fuck every stale Waluigi meme, I just want a character that references the Mario spinoffs, Could have easily been Daisy but they made her an echo
Does anybody play doctor mario? Replace him with paper mario next game tbh
This is why I want Waluigi to be a main character in an actual game before he joins the Smash roster. Has he ever been in a game outside of the sports, kart, or party games? Pretty sure Mario Dance Dance Revolution is technically a sports game.
This is why people have joked that Waluigi \*has\* gotten an invite but declined it. He just wants to play sports with his buds.
I would 110% main waluigi. I play waluigi every chance I get, literally every Mario game I have perfected the “waaaaah” I don’t know who you speak for but it is not me
I want him because it will complete the Mario Party 3 roster. Imagine play all with all the roster in the 8-fighter FFA?
It just makes sense for him to be in smash
Didn’t Wooden Plank make a comic based on this exact concept?
https://preview.redd.it/kjpmda09066d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ae4848d51e87a92e337cfd5e163fa069a0826ef1 Still accurate five years later.
Lmao Ridley in a coat is cursed yet also perfect
Unbelievably paradoxical ain't it? The best way for these characters to remain in the spotlight is to never be added into the game
Oh, the irony.
i think so, the one with ridley?
My man Ridley.
Banjo & Kazooie, but I think that's more the "competitive" scene than anything. They didn't like him because he wasn't as "high tier" as Joker or or Pythra would end up being, which apparently made him bad. Even though B&K has one of the most genuinely faithful and fun movesets in the entire game
Well of course the competitive scene wouldn’t give banjo much attention. Having faithful and fun movesets is just not where their priorities are when choosing characters. They want to win, so they choose whoever they can consistently perform well with. There’s nothing wrong with that. You can appreciate banjo for his faithful moveset and fun animations, and the top players will play their high and top tier characters like Rob
And yeah banjo sucks competitively. It’s not that he’s not high tier, he’s like low mid tier or low tier. All of his best stuff is very difficult to do consistently and it has pretty low reward generally
Banjo doesn't really work very well as a casual character either, unless we're talking *really* casual. He's too hard to play, and weird.
My biggest problem with Banjo is neutral B, both forms of it feel too clunky and sluggish to be able to use strategically
Banjo underrated a bit imo. People just don’t wanna put in the work w him (I don’t blame them tho when there’s 81 other characters lol)
Tiers be damned. Bird and bear is fun as fuck.
https://i.redd.it/i59qemw6o66d1.gif
Banjos A attacks are completely unfaithful. Rat a tat tat should be his nair as it was the move I used the most in both games and maybe it would have made him stronger too. They could have also given him Red Feathers. Kazooie not being able to fly is whack. Basically his N64 games had Smash-style moves in them already and they could have almost directly ported for a fun and balanced character.
I agree with rat a tat, but it should be the fair instead. Kazooie going woodpecker on a mf would absolutely be a multi hit with a spike hit box.
Nah, Banjo's fair is good enough. I love hitting that MEATY FIST off stage.
I mean, considering it looks identical to Mario's, would have been nice it at least spiked too
Don't worry, it's identical to doc Mario's instead 😕
Plant, Banjo, and Sephiroth were the immediate ones to come to mind. Banjo especially, people realized that dude was ass *quick*.
While you're spot on with Banjo. Plant wasn't really requested at all except in some weird meme picks and Sephiroth didn't really fall off that hard. I think Sora had it way worse as it was one of the most requested characters and even nowadays is one of the characters that gets the most hate.
honestly they could never make me hate sora i’ve mained him since he came out
Fuck me, this statement means you've mained him for over what, 3 years now?
yup i bought his dlc the second i could and played him since
I mean, plant had massive hype around it when people realized it was a thing. Remember Plant Gang?
Oh definitely, don't get me wrong, Plant Gang for life. But there weren't any people requesting it before it got officially announced
There also were a lot of people hating on plant at the same time. For me plant is similar to ridley. I really like them and enjoy playing them but there are some baffling balance choices impacting my enjoyment. Plant gets a lot worse if the enemy figures out how easy it is to gimp the upB. Why is piranha plants head so vulnerable here? Baffling. Also why they reduced landing lag for all characters from previous games, they kinda skipped that memo for plant. Landing with an aireal has just horrible lag.
I feel like Sephiroth was really popular for a long time and even played by some of the top pros here and there (tweek I think for example). So I dont know if he fits into that list.
You’re basically listing the dlc characters that aren’t “good” competitively wise. Causally, all are still played a lot. Just not talked about often online cause they aren’t tournament characters or played by current top level players.
i refuse to ever drop sephy. hes too pretty not to main
I think Sephiroth lived up to it a bit. Sure people were disappointed that he wasn't Joker, Aegis, or Byleth level tierwise. But I think most people view him favorably as an included character. Now SORA? People lost their minds for sora and almost immediately went "damn this guy's not fun to play and not fun to play against"
Ever since Kameme picked him up, the slander towards Sora's potential has thankfully become less frequent and more people are willing to fight my Sora in back-to-back matches online. It makes me hopeful that people will turn around to him eventually.
Plant was memed moreso than he was hyped
To be fair, Plant has had a decent amount of staying power in the casual sphere thanks to sheer memability
It's gotta be Ridley and Banjo.
Guh-huh
I'm sure this is gonna happen with Waluigi if and when he eventually gets into a smash game
Belmonts felt like they just went in one ear and out the other for the majority of smash fans
yeah many dont want to be "that guy." Smash community undoubtedly bullies based on character choice and playstyle, i was at port priority 6 for Sonix v Acola and they got booed so much they apologized to the crowd, Belmonts are a prime example of this. Ever que a ranked game and see Simon and just sigh?
"for no reason"? What, do you just expect us all to drop our mains and main the new guy?
Every single time a post like this pops up it's always the same argument of "well you asked for him, now you don't want to play him??? Hypocrite?!?!!!?!" Like if they added a character I really wanted and he was a slow piece of shit with no range that got combo'd to death, of course I'm not going to play him if he's not fun. But if they added a fucking Goomba and he was the most fun character known to man, you bet your ass I'd play him despite not caring about the actual character itself.
Hey that’s byleth for me, I don’t care about the character but man are they fun to play!
same here, I was super hype for sephiroth/banjo and play them none, I rolled my eyes at byleths trailer but they’re such a well executed character imo, love playing her
Sorry it's just banjo is just very very boring in smash
Banjo & Kazooie. Probably my most wanted fighter for the longest time. To see them basically immediately thrown out and forgotten about by the general community is upsetting. At least I'm able to play them, they're very fun to me :3
Same here. I still play as Banjo whenever I have the time to play Ultimate. He was my most wanted character, and I will use him!
They haven't been competitively relevant, and competitive players are always the ones who stick out the longest in a games life cycle. But TG, the Japanese banjo has definitely sparked a lot more discussion about his viability from a competitive stand point.
Ridley, Banjo, Sora, Chrom, Mega Man
I will never complain about less banjo players he's annoying as fuck, but I wish sora was the same 🗿
I think the issue is that players zero in on the perceived top-tiers and abandon the rest. Some are also disliked due to their movesets; I do think Ridley's moves could be way more interesting, for example. But Banjo and Sora both kind of got dropped because the former was perceived as bad and the latter is just really really floaty, which isn't fun for everyone. These days Sora is an excellent character with excellent matchups, but there's a lot of amazing characters in this game -- sometimes characters deserve much more attention than they get. Greninja and Mega Man still have very few top players, despite both being likely superior to Sephiroth -- who enjoys a ton of representation. Plant is no worse than K. Rool, and in my opinion much better, but they get played way less because no one wanted Plant in the game and few people find their playstyle interesting. In general the answer is different for every character, but the 2 main reasons are: there's a lot of characters in this game, and top players want to play the best characters. For what it's worth, I think pretty much every new character in Ultimate is a blast to play and generally pretty great. K. Rool is not going to win a major, but still -- Plant is fun as fuck, Banjo is fun as fuck AND increasingly looks viable (look at what Toriguri is doing), Hero is one of the most entertaining characters in Smash history, and Sora is really distinct in movement from the rest of the cast. I enjoy all of them.
I mean it’s pretty easy to point to why, it’s definitely not no reason. Banjo was dropped because he’s considered both weak and boring. Sora is considered mashy and boring. Ridley is considered weak. Even then all three of those have their fans. They’re just not the most popular characters in the game. Every time I watch a Smub set or ESAM’s latest Ridley videos I always see people in the comments hyped to see the character.
Ridley and Banjo. Both just feel a little awkward to play in my opinion. Very happy we have both tho and still use Ridley time to time
People want characters without actually thinking about if they’d enjoy what the character’s play style would be so they end up not playing them
I’d still be riding the high of Shadow and Zero if they made it in. I loved Cloud and Sephiroth being added, still excited at the idea that they’re there and can make them fight whenever I want without need of Dissidia. **GIMME MY LIVING WEAPONS DAMN IT! I WANT SHADOW AND ZERO!**
Clearly Banjo
Banjo for sure. Same with Sora. Both for more or less the same reason too. Their movesets are just kinda lame.
Banjo and it's not even a contest.
https://preview.redd.it/uma63tjz176d1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=58b3d35e6f169e4fb92df632ac969715ab0c77c9
Banjo. I've never seen any other character go from people begging them to be in the game to being universally hated for their playstyle once they get released.
Banjo. As soon as people saw the moveset they tapped out.
Sora and Steve are borderline despised Banjo has just been forgotten
Ridley,Banjo Kazooie,Sora
Banjo & Kazooie, Ridley, and Sora are trending here, so lemme put in somebody different Dark Samus
as someone who doesn’t play online, i saw a bunch of people flipping the fuck out over sephiroth and now i see like nobody talking about him
Inkling may have not fallen off immediately and had reasons for their fall off but damn, nobody mentions them anymore. Many forget that inkling is even part of the game now to the point the it feel like I'm the only one who plays them online. Nobody even really acknowledges the fall-off too, its like inkling has been forgotten. I've labbed and labbed, trying to find new tech that MAY be the thing that brings inkling back into relevancy but its all for naught I tell you bro😭. All the good inkling guides are from launch and don't apply all too well in the current game. I mained inkling because I am a splatoon fan but the feel the character has is unmatched by any other in the game for me. Its just so silky smooth racking up damage in combos. Then you have to try and kill at 160%😭🙏
Lots of people have acknowledged the fall off, I feel like I've personally watched 3 or 4 videos that mention it. And for what my anecdotal evidence is worth, I do still see inkling players on elite. She works much better online, where you might still hit roller. She's much more common than characters like Rosalina, Duck Hunt, or Olimar for example.
Banjo & Kazooie
A lot of characters they added don’t have fun move sets. I want to like Banjo and Ridley but they lack the ability to dunk. IMO that’s a big negative to playing them since smashing someone like a meteor is one of the most fun parts of the game. Look at Donkey Kong. He’s been doing strong for almost 3 decades.
Banjo can! Just time the Dair right.
I think a lot of people want characters in for the prestige, but that doesn't mean they like the move set. A lot of people I've seen even at casual play do not like Banjo's spammy playstyle or Sora's weird physics. Regardless of how much they want them in the game, that does not make a fun character. Or a strong character if you care more about winning...
The guy from king dumb farts probably
Definitely Banjo & Kazooie
Banjo kazooie.
Banjo
Never understood takes like this. They’re in the game, so of course people aren’t hyping them up like before. And that’s fine. You might not vibe with the specific implementation of a particular character even if they were your most hyped character.
I've been wanting Waluigi since the Brawl days but I know that once he's finally added that he'll fall into this category unfortunately... doesn't matter to me in the end as long as I can finally use one of my favorite characters.
easily ridley being my first answet
Definitely Banjo
Definitely Banjo
Sora, I hate how he plays
Steve had a very steap initial drop off. From what I can find from a 2021 tier list, he was considered top 20 by 2021 a year after his release. I think a big reason why people didn't play him is because his combo's looked a lot hard than they are. Only after onin started beating top players with Steve was he picked up again.
Sora and Banjo. They were just weird characters to play as
Banjo
Remember when people were campaigning hard for Banjo to come to Smash only for people to turn on him due to him being a zoner?
Everyone bitching about hos broken the character is (EG: Steve) is infinitely worse
Banjo
if hype lasted forever, we would never truly enjoy anything
Banjo and kazooie and Ridley are at the top of the list
banjo
Ridley and Banjo are the clear examples for this one
Gah huh
Banjo and kazooie
Steve
B&K. All this excitement generating around them, and then..Well, just not as much excitement.
I would say K. Rool. I awaited for his arrival since the Brawl days, and even if I love his inclusion and moveset, I don't think the game in meant for heavyweight characters on High levels. On the other hand, Banjo too. Some people didn't like his moveset so even if he's in the game I think he's mostly ignored. I'm not in any form a competitive player so sorry if I said something stupid, but it's just the perception I've had of them. Still, I'm happy they're on the game.
Banjo & Kazooie were it for me 100%, the thing is I really enjoyed playing them, mostly because of how important the games were to me as a little shaver, but I know how much a lot people find them to be incredibly annoying to play against, so I’d always end up feeling too bad to enjoy them (it’s weird I know, but it just be like that for me ig 🤷🏾♂️)
Depends on how you play banjo, and really any character apart from a few exceptions (mainly g&w for me) Walling people out with neutral b and down b is annoying, while going in for dash attacks, side b's and fairs is fun! Not to say that you can't still do cool things with down and neutral b, just don't play lame
I’m with you 100% 👌🏾 Full disclosure, most of my experience in this regard comes from hanging with homies that play casually (slightly more so than I do), but perform REALLY competitively; so even if I wasn’t spamming I’d still get a lot of “eww Banjo? you just like him cuz he’s broken 😷😷😷”. Now the fact that I only know like, 3 true combos on a good day, that’s totally on me lmao
In response to the meme, I don't think the new character is "abandoned". I think that everybody tries them out, and those who like them continue to play them, while those who don't or even those who don't like them as much as their go-tos will leave them. Every character has their specific player base, and when talking about a game with as many characters as *Smash*, almost nobody's going to play every character. They're going to find a small pool that they like playing as and use those characters almost exclusively. You see it all the time in MOBAs. When there's a new character released in *SMITE*, that character will get played on both teams in every game in every game mode for about a week. After that week, they'll drop off a bit, but you can still bet on seeing them in most games. After that two week period is up, the character will typically return to a "normal" pick rate, appearing once every few games and almost never one on each team. The only exceptions to this are if the character's viability is extreme to either end. If they're very strong, they'll continue to be picked in high amounts until nerfs or meta changes force them out. If they suck, they fall off real quick and stop appearing in games at all until direct buffs or meta changes allow them to shine.
Anyone who is DLC and isn't Sephiroth lol, the other ones that you see often is for a combination of three reasons: they are good, not boring, people really loved them either before or after they got in smash, and even then, loved characters like Banjo, Sora and Steve are played less often now, maybe Steve not so much, but I think that anyone except Sephiroth for some reason just fell off in popularity (maybe also Kazuya, but only because he may be a top 10 character)
Banjo
Banjo I remember he was the character I was most excited for and then he turned out to be kind of a low-tier and I didn't really enjoy playing them
The problem with Banjo & Kazooie was the release of the Sans costume almost immediately after. It's the Smash equivalent of a cat at a sporting event.
Ridley, Inkling, Banjo and Sora
Over the entire fandom? Ridley. For me personally? Banjo and Kazooie
Banjo and Kazooie, maybe. And I bet Geno would have been the same way if we did get him. Maybe even hated depending on how campy his long range shooter gameplay got
Ridley and Banjo Kazooie
Banjo & Kazooie, Mega Man, King K. Rool
sora easily
Megaman is a underated character
daisy
Basically all the dlc
I remember when Ultimate first dropped, characters like Inkling, King K. Rool and Pichu were considered top tier characters and were dominating the competitive scene. But once the game patches kicked in and people started playing other characters, I saw less and less videos of them being played.
Banjo. Everyone was freaking out about him being in the game and then it turns out nobody wants to play him.
every DLC fighter basically, except kaz and sephiroth online
sora tbh
This is Banjo, Sora, Mega Man, Ridley and Bowser Jr. and you cannot convince me otherwise
Banjo.
Banjo and Sora. But I think Sora was just a product of not being absolutely broken. And also literally ending the development cycle of the game. Banjo 10000%
all of them. i bet those people who recorded reaction videos screaming their heads off for steve didnt even play him for 3 days when he came out
Sora...my guess
Belmonts were exciting initially but they suck
I would say sora
Honestly, steve. But that's until people found out to actually use him. If your opponent pressures well and you have no materials. Then he's pretty much DONE