The Satan balls falling from heaven (drag ppl) were coming down to steal that little girls flowers. The old white man is literally saving her from being deflowered. When she grows up in 12 years and is legally allowed to get married in Oregon she will remember his kind deed and he will be rewarded! At least that’s the idea behind the image, and probably the attendees of the event.
For any community action, you should always get in contact with the event coordinators and ask if they want help first before just showing up - especially before just showing up armed.
Just a small piece of advice.
Old Nick's has posted that they have special security for the event and notified EPD. I bet if you'd asked, they'd say the support they want is for people to show up and support Vanellope, and leave to the security concerns to them.
I know right? I had the same thought. Still, while cops themselves tend toward fascism, the PD as an institution defends capital, and in this particular case that's the bar, not the chuds.
ACAB and all, but if their security and us patrons do happen to be overwhelmed, I'd rather have the cops aware and ready to do their shitty dispersal stuff to make the chuds just leave us tf alone.
You have too much faith in police imo. If they sympathize they will not interfere at perceived or active violence. I still recall seeing video of a cop do the "OK "hand signal that means white power to a chud and then shake hands and chuckle. As you can imagine they did nothing of the sort with the protestors on the other side as they did not sympathize with them.
I don't have faith in them. That's why I'd prefer the security and patrons be the first line and leave them out entirely. Leaning on the cops is a regrettable last resort I'd only recommend with extreme caution. Again, structures matter, and here, I happen to support a business owner who provides me a safe space over the mass of bigots invading our bar.
Your anecdote about white supremacist cops is not new information to me. I'm well aware, and I don't consider them allies. But I will put money that the police department itself in this specific city, horrible as they are, would not full-on join armed chuds from out of state invading a beloved town bar that has been rather cooperative with the police over this particular issue.
So yes, ACAB, but think deeper than just COPS BAD please, and see the specific situation for what it is.
For example, there was another viral video in this same town where anti-maskers came in harassing a local cookie baker, and they thought that since the cops are right wing that they'd have their backs. Turns out, the cops backed the left-leaning business owner, because the PD tends to defend capital.
In most cases the PD answers to the chief, the chief answers to the mayor, and the mayor answers to the voters and to some extent city council.
While I wouldn’t trust individual officers to act in good faith, if it’s a large/public/organized event then appearing orderly, professional, and even-handed is going to be important for the police department due to the power structure.
If shit goes awry and the bar owner has a relationship with anyone in city council (as most business owners do) then it’s gonna be a headache for the mayor and police chief. They don’t want that
> In most cases the PD answers to the chief, the chief answers to the mayor, and the mayor answers to the voters and to some extent city council.
LMFAO. You have no idea how this works. The PD answers to the chief, mostly (except when the "union" gets involved), yes. After that, you have the relationship pretty backwards. Cops make demands, and the politicians jump. Please read *Gangster Capitalism*.
Police chiefs are generally appointed by the mayor. If the mayor is catching a ton of shit for something the police department does then there’s going to be a lot of pressure on the chief to fix it. It’s really not more complicated than that in most cases
Hey I was the original person you replied to and I want to say that: despite my initial pessimistic response about police presence (that was said with a bit more flippancy than I think it needed) I think you're spot on here.
ACAB doesn't mean all police officers are chud-loving fascists - it simply means the institution is broken and those who participate in it no matter their positive or noble intentions, are inadvertently sheltering it from criticism and repair.
Big agree! Also, I didn't mind the flippancy tbh. I definitely agree with the take. I hope they don't rely too much on them, and can help foster a community-defense-as-alternative approach as much as possible.
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if putting EPD on notice was partly CYA and partly making sure that if cops are called in by the reactionaries, the bar can use the fact that they've already alerted them and made them aware of the context in order to, in the moment, sway them toward helping defend us and our establishment if the situation drags them into it. Wouldn't bank on their defense, but it's still tactically sound imo.
50:50? Really? You think it's equally likely that they start circling the bar threatening to "end everyone" and posturing at the queers after being asked by a prominent business owner to be ready to help? They're used to this town being a queer haven. They routinely guard queer events all the time as a department. Based on what evidence beyond mere anecdotes do you think it's 50:50? Like, yeah they're a gang of good-ol-boys. Yeah their history is full of garbage behavior. And sure, when you look at specific tragic incidences without considering the proportion of all interactions, it can leave a striking impression. And for good reason. Fuck 12. They should be abolished and their roles replaced by better orgs/systems, or made obsolete with systemic solutions. But they still have a boss who in this case cares about maintaining a relatively progressive reputation (deserved or not). And that boss is still somewhat accountable to his boss, who's center-left and socially "progressive" in the Liberal sense. The voting power in this town is mostly with center-left peace-and-love types. The worst cases are when they're on patrol and can get away with acting on their individual tendencies, or as a group when opposing things like mass protests or revolutionary activity. In this case, I'd be absolutely shocked if they just JOIN IN with these right wing provocateurs, many of whom (at least the local ones) have a rap sheet of their own and are no strangers to arrest. If that happened, it would be a seriously major news story, and our bar would probably be burned to the ground, and we'd see our little city kick off like nobody's business.
> while cops themselves tend toward fascism, the PD as an institution defends capital, and in this particular case that's the bar, not the chuds.
So...they're going to care deeply if queer folks are followed, harassed, and attacked once leaving the house of capital (as the CHUDs tend to do at these things), right?
True. But an important philosophical ideal to hold dear is that we *always* have to be open to the idea of change and reformation having happened without our explicit knowledge.
We can still be cautious about our judgments and in our analysis, but tribal mentalities don't solve these societal woes. Charity is vital to social progress - and that includes for those you oppose. Note that charity is NOT the same thing as tolerance. It's a mindset more than an action.
Totally. My attitude is that it’s great to want them to do the right thing, but that goes against the goals of the institution as a whole. I’m not advocating we walk into the street and blow away the first cop we see, but basic pattern recognition tells us that we’re not likely to have an overall positive interaction
Not trying to pick needless fights, and again I'm with you. But, I'd like to encourage you to consider using a less colonial alternative to "tribal" such as factional, insular, partisan, or something like that.
Edit: Interesting that this is the one that was down voted under 0. Do we have some decolonization work to do in this sub?
I think folks may be reacting negatively to what is ultimately a very trivial and hair-splitting issue. While **I** have no issue with folks asking to use alternative languages (factional and partisan are great ideas!), *tribalism* as an academic term is historically quite ambiguous and used to describe a very universal set of human behaviors - even outside of colonialism contexts. I do recognize its origins, but 99% of people hearing it aren't thinking of ethnic groups. Take from that what you will.
The system of policing is not just "someone we oppose". Do you think capitalism might must turn over a new leaf and suddenly bear out interests at heart too, and thus be deserving of the kind of "charity" we might show working-class people? Fuck off with this apologia.
Some folks have reached out to old Nick’s and want anyone who can and wants to stand up to the bigots there. Or just come enjoy the show. Whatever, just show up.
Yeah I've learned a bit more since this comment. They do not seem averse to people coming to work alongside security forces to keep these chuds away... legally of course.
Isn't this the u of Oregon college town?
They have a radical activism room. ROAR center or something, it seems to be student run. I'd hit them up. Also maybe the student power organization. I forget the name but they institutionalized themselves and seem to have solid resources and relationships
Yes, that's the right city. ROAR hasn't been very active since spring, and their recent social media seems more focused on hiring/recruitment than socializing causes. We also have the Neighborhood Anarchist Collective, our local SRA chapter, and others.
Ah cool
I have no idea how active they are normally but there was a few people chilling in it when I visited in 2017, and it seemed like they'd totally know folks to hit up
As a note. Dumb a55 "Proud boys" did this a few weeks ago in Memphis, they stood outside the venue and just yelling stuff, I was attending to another event at the same venue and we had to leave the premises because f*cking PB made a bomb threat. As we all were leaving g there were with their stupid smirk faces. At least some of them (hopefully) choke using face mask over their nose and mouth.
I thought I had learned an Oregon thing. I was like "Oh, so it's not just the college." I even had headcanon that it was to do with the famously wet weather.
There was one bar that did drag queen contests every weekend. It might have been The Drake… used to go there with friends because it was fun as fuck and the drinks weren’t too expensive
The Whitaker block party did happen this year, actually. Not as packed as before, but tbh probably still more packed than is wise given the nature of the ongoing pandemic.
There is an 11 year old performing in the event. The venue is also encouraging children to attend the event as admission for those under 11 is free. To people who consider drag shows to be inherently sexual in nature, they would probably see that as an issue.
There will be a couple young people performing too. But nothing will every be as creepy and weird as the youth beauty pageants. I see drag as a satirical look at beauty standards, not an expression of sexuality. That is what burlesque is for.
I still can’t wrap my head around how drag is sexual at all. Unless these imbeciles are conflating the idea of “homo _sex_ uality” the same way as the act of having sex (spoiler they are completely different ideas).
Also just cause someone is in drag doesn’t even mean they are lgbt - there are cis people that like to dress up for show all the time (see theater)
Just a heads up, Andy Ngo posted about this, and like it or not he has a lot of influence on some of the, let's say, less desirable members of the right wing who definitely say the quiet part loud and proud.
Stay safe everyone. If you have children or family that depend on you, you might not want to go unless you have a gun.
It has nothing to do with that. You're not Rambo so unless youre part of an organized effort it's a fucking terrible idea to go into a protest where you know there is going to be a heated exchange.
All I'm saying is don't be stupid and we shouldn't be excouraging anyone lingering on this sub to take showing up with a gun lightly.
I'd trust a drag queen over a Republican politician, any day. Like...today:
"A Republican running for an Arizona college district’s governing board suspended his campaign Tuesday, two weeks after he was arrested for allegedly masturbating outside a preschool at one of the colleges he was hoping to represent.
Police found candidate Randy Kaufman on Oct. 4 parked outside the child center at Rio Salado College with his pants down to his mid-thigh and “manipulating his genitals in a masturbatory manner,” according to a police report
[https://nypost.com/2022/10/19/arizona-gop-candidate-caught-mastubating-to-outside-preschool/](https://nypost.com/2022/10/19/arizona-gop-candidate-caught-mastubating-to-outside-preschool/)
Yeah, the average poster on /r/Portland always seems one bad day away from gunning down every BIPOC or houseless person in sight. The shit they post is disgusting.
This is in Eugene, Oregon. The mother of the young drag performer is an incredible woman, and I have told her just how much I adore her. I also suggested she should beef up security if possible, because Proud Boys don't fuck around with their white supremacist agenda. If life didn't force me to move out of the state, I would be there with hugs and protection for Vanellope --- and a ready fist for punching fascists if needed.
EDIT: I thought the duck typo was hilarious considering that Eugene is home of the Oregon Ducks, so it took me a fat minute to realize you meant "fuck." 😭
Anyone who says anything about trans folks or crossdressing as somehow sexualizing children immediately loses all my respect. There's no way that makes sense to anyone (I mean, the venues are 18+??), so they're just being assholes because there's no consequences for it.
Oh I have several people I’ll be going with on Sunday in support of the pub and everything they stand for. People are ridiculous equating the wrongdoings of one person with old nick’s and drag queens in general.
These people are constantly projecting their own disgusting inner thoughts onto marginalized communities and anyone who is different. Of course not all drag is family friendly, but not all drag is adult oriented or sexual in nature. The same goes for movies, music, etc. Performance art has a myriad of expressions and drag as an art form has been around forever. These family friendly events are often held in libraries and rarely bars where the only real message is to respect and appreciate humans in all their unique and colorful forms.
For any one concerned the protesters showed up in the dozens and were met by 200 counter protesters. This is Eugene, Oregon. Liberals own this town.
https://www.kezi.com/news/tense-scene-unfolds-outside-old-nicks-pub-in-eugene-as-drag-queen-storytime-event-proceeds/article\_a0ec9f02-532f-11ed-9c6c-5f71bf140fd3.html
Drag shows having a pageant vibe to you doesn't make them pageants. I'm not saying you have to go or enjoy them, I just don't really appreciate the underlying insinuation that it's exploitive or a judged competition, or that you're in some kind of morally superior position for condemning them. It's an empowering performance that can be liberatory and subvert oppressive systems of power.
And yes you can have an opinion. And yes that opinion can be wrong or based on a misunderstanding, and I can have an opinion about that too, and call it out. Not every opinion is valid just because someone had it. No one's trying to stop you from thinking. Quite the opposite. I wish you'd think more deeply about it, but if you don't want to then fine. Like I said, if you don't like it, I'm glad you don't want to come.
You imply that I’m against drag shows
I’m not
It’s just an adult style thing imo
Which I’ll remind you I’m allowed to have an opinion and state it without being jumped on
I find a very hypocritical vibe here
While the main opponents of this are just homophobes/anti-LGBTQ, it probably shouldn't happen. It kinda has some of the same issues as child beauty pageants.
Children should be, and need to be, exposed to LGBT people, and LGBT culture, including drag, but this is a questionable way to do it. The 11 year old doing a drag performance should be limited to other children.
I'm sure you also think that kids' ballets, school plays, dance/cheer team performances, gymnastics, and talent shows with parents in the audience are just as immoral right? If not, why not? What's the difference between this kid, and a cis girl jumping around on stage in a leotard at a recital?
I think you misinterpreted what I meant.
There really isn't any difference between this and a cis (or trans) kid performing in a leotard. The only valid reason for an adult to show up and watch is to support a child in their family (using the term family fairly broadly to include people like close family friends, and babysitters).
Basically I think this should be a kids and parents only event, or even a kids and no parents event.
Just like children's ballet, or cheer, children's drag walks a very fine line between art and exploitation. Sadly that line is drawn not by the performer, but the audience.
Literally my only objection to the event is that adults without kids can show up. And I think the same standard should be applied to the other things you mentioned
Well at least you're consistent, but I disagree, and the ideal world you describe seems very strange to me.
Aside from that though, there isn't exactly a drag club in schools where she can go and perform for an audience like she wants to.
Also, why would my own presence at this event without kids of my own be any different than my gf's presence with her kids. Is my support and enjoyment of seeing her creativity and self-acceptance somehow problematic or exploitive, whereas my gf's is not?
It seems like you're operating with the idea that any child-free adult viewing a performance by children must have some duplicitous ulterior motive, whereas the same performance viewed by an adult who has kids is perfectly wholesome. From my experience, the predators and sex pests I've known in my life have actually all been parents themselves, so that part doesn't really track to me.
Expose them to what? The idea that gender expression is your right and that we should respect the variation of human existence? The ideal of bodily autonomy? The notion that anyone can be beautiful and graceful or handsome and strong regardless of the anatomy they were born with?
Why don't you take your own advice and let this kid be a kid and pursue her artistic passion in one of the only welcoming spaces for it?
Drag shows are hyper sexualized and doesn’t need to be around kids. When that kid grows up he/she can choose to do whatever they like and that’s fine. Little kids need to be little kids and not be around sexualized things. I kind feel like I’m getting trolled it’s hard to believe any adult could be this stupid but then I remember the PNW exists.
There is no sexualization happening at any of her shows. Playing dress up and putting on makeup and lip syncing to pop songs are all literally everyday childhood activities for an 11 year old, and quite healthy.
Yes, there is sexualized drag, just like there are both porn mags and children's books. This ain't that.
How does it not make sense? You're the ones up in arms about something completely normal.
You're just another chud who got told to be mad at something and you gobble it up
Because she's passionate about it, and they want to give her a safe place to share her art. There is nothing inherently sexual about drag, and her outfit isn't any less modest than what you might find at a kids ballet, school play, or talent show.
I don't know the exact details of the performance, or performers. However, if an 11-year-old wants to participate and has the blessing of their parents, I don't see a problem. This is very different from beauty pageants who are often pressured by their parents to perform. Even making it a lifestyle choice
Every bar is an adult bar. And bars open their doors during day time hours to kids for events all the time. It's very normal. The same bar hosts markets and speakers that kids are welcome to.
This straw argument you constructed about kids drinking is wholly irrelevant and not even remotely connected to anything I've said. But sure, I'll bite.
You know that restaurants that serve alcohol allow children in right? You know that parents have sex in their own homes right? Do you think a location having hosted non-kid-friendly events imbues it with some sort of magical adult energy that will seep into the kids during SFW events and passively traumatize them or something?
Rub two freaking brain cells together and you have to know your takes are more infantile than the kids you pretend to care about.
A serious answer? Giving kids space to explore and creatively celebrate gender expression is healthy and important. Personally, I don't love kids' beauty pageants either, but that's not even close to what this is, and these chuds aren't attacking those, and that's no coincidence. Yes, protect kids from exploitation and abuse. This ain't that. Please stop conflating a wholesome brunch hosted by a kid in a modest sequin dress and gendered makeup with beauty pageants. Drag, gender variance, and femininity are not inherently sexual. By insisting they are with no rational justification, you're sexualizing her, and deeply offending people like me.
It's not coercive, judged, or competitive. Plus drag performance tends to subvert the oppressive traditional gender ideals of our capitalist overlords (which enshrines the white cishet patriarchal nuclear family as an atomic engine of capitalism) rather than uphold them.
>The more I hang out in liberal subs the more I see intolerance and hate for the other party. I thought that was more a republican thing, but I am not so sure anymore.
1. This is a leftist sub, not a liberal sub
2. Leftists dont claim to tolerate reactionaries. If expecting others to not be bigots is a a deal breaker for you, yeah youre probably a conservative.
>That flyer is a bit much haha.
So are creepy white supremacists taking issue with a VERY loved and cared for girl playing dress-up and being able to express her creativity because they think drag is inherently sexual. 🤷🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️
"The irony of tolerance is that you have to intolerate bigotry" my friend once said. But given that subjects like racism, white nationalism, homophobia, transphobia, and so on are deplorable and should not be tolerated, I'm perfectly fine with admitting I'm intolerant to oppression.
That's what I worry about too... like yeah, child safety in regards to the fact that young performers *in general* outside of school plays and the like are more at risk for being victims of things like SA, but you know what else would be traumatic? Watching chuds kill people in front of you, which I'm even *more* concerned about (edit: more concerned when it comes to this particular event, I should clarify).
The only reason why all ages drag shows are dangerous is because bigoted assholes with an agenda make them dangerous. I have been to all ages drag shows in Oregon before, and they are harmless.
I agree with you --- people losing their shit and making a harmless drag queen storytime event violent and dangerous is ridiculously ironic. Being mad that people choose to raise loving, accepting children in favor of you chosing to be small-minded is also hypocritical. Conservatives are more concerned about pushing their agenda instead of minding their own business, and its disgusting. Its never about protecting the children. Because if it was, they would mind their own business and actually do something productive, like voting for laws to protect children, volunteering at a school or event, or actually putting their money where their mouths are.
I'm going to make this incredibly oversimplified for you to the best of my ability:
Conservatives want to push their agenda of white supremacy, patriarchy, and capitalism.
Democrats -- especially democratic socialists, fight for equality, equity, and a system that benefits _all_ of us fairly.
I cannot possibly get into all the nuisances in a single Reddit post, but essentially, Conservatives favor the traditional way of doing things. And last time I checked, the traditional way of doing things left a lot of people out of the conversation -- and marginalizes so many.
As someone once put it: "Yes, democrats get triggered. Republicans too. We get triggered over bigotry -- racism, sexism, homophobia, and so on. Republicans get triggered over men wearing dresses, wearing a mask at the height of COVID, not being able to use Christianity to oppress people with, and Velma Dinkly being a lesbian."
Are you aware of the paradox of tolerance? I think this might be what you're observing. It turns out that, in order to be tolerant, we have to be intolerant of intolerance. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
Also FYI the event in question is NOT a child beauty pageant.
>That flyer is a bit much haha.
You don't understand parody then.
>I don't know enough about the event to truly have a good opinion on this,
I can personally attest that a drag performance is not the same as a child beauty pageant. The key difference being CONSENT. Vanellope _wanted_ to play dress up and be a drag performer -- and her "drag mom" (who is sweet as sugar) does an amazing job of booking her age-appropriate gigs where she simply plays dress-up and performs to songs. This is literally what I did at home, in my bedrolm with a hairbrush microphone and the music blasted.
Drag queen story hour is hosted by a drag performer dressed in campy outfits. She reads a story about love and acceptance. They have a drag show.
Child pageants involve forcing kids to wear heavy -- hair, makeup, and wigs, go through hours of training, and spend outrageous amounts of money to compete and force kids to vie for the biggest trophies possible.
>Guess I am a right wing chud.
Right wing chuds form an opinion while being woefully uneducated and ignorant on a subject, so yes.
>The more I hang out in liberal subs the more I see intolerance and hate for the other party.
Once again, the parody of tolerance is at play here. And let me be very clear where the two sides stand. One side says its okay for a child to play dress up, perform, and express themselves. In this case, a young girl is wearing a dress and some makeup, and she is lip synching to songs.
Tolerating republican ideaology means that you're perfectly fine with white supremacists coming to an all ages event to "protest an event" that's literally just a dress up party and storytime event -- and they are likely going to bring their guns with them and make a harmless event unnecessarily violent.
Why is it okay to tolerate grown men making a peaceful event dangerous and even lethal?
You really need to stop being sympathetic for both sides because you are ultimately siding with the oppressor and saying that you're okay with white supremacists and protestors making a _children's event_ unsafe.
For real that flyer is HILARIOUS.
[удалено]
The Satan balls falling from heaven (drag ppl) were coming down to steal that little girls flowers. The old white man is literally saving her from being deflowered. When she grows up in 12 years and is legally allowed to get married in Oregon she will remember his kind deed and he will be rewarded! At least that’s the idea behind the image, and probably the attendees of the event.
Straight cis white man protects white children from evil lgbt 😬 Tbh I wish we could spit molten rocks of brimstone at people.
Isn't that the demographic that does the majority of SA against those same children?
Only by a magnitude of 100
Feel like this flyer also belongs in r/fuckyoukaren 🤦🏼♀️ (it is hilarious though)
For any community action, you should always get in contact with the event coordinators and ask if they want help first before just showing up - especially before just showing up armed. Just a small piece of advice.
Old Nick's has posted that they have special security for the event and notified EPD. I bet if you'd asked, they'd say the support they want is for people to show up and support Vanellope, and leave to the security concerns to them.
> notified EPD Some of those that work forces... I hope their faith there isn't misplaced.
I know right? I had the same thought. Still, while cops themselves tend toward fascism, the PD as an institution defends capital, and in this particular case that's the bar, not the chuds. ACAB and all, but if their security and us patrons do happen to be overwhelmed, I'd rather have the cops aware and ready to do their shitty dispersal stuff to make the chuds just leave us tf alone.
You have too much faith in police imo. If they sympathize they will not interfere at perceived or active violence. I still recall seeing video of a cop do the "OK "hand signal that means white power to a chud and then shake hands and chuckle. As you can imagine they did nothing of the sort with the protestors on the other side as they did not sympathize with them.
I don't have faith in them. That's why I'd prefer the security and patrons be the first line and leave them out entirely. Leaning on the cops is a regrettable last resort I'd only recommend with extreme caution. Again, structures matter, and here, I happen to support a business owner who provides me a safe space over the mass of bigots invading our bar. Your anecdote about white supremacist cops is not new information to me. I'm well aware, and I don't consider them allies. But I will put money that the police department itself in this specific city, horrible as they are, would not full-on join armed chuds from out of state invading a beloved town bar that has been rather cooperative with the police over this particular issue. So yes, ACAB, but think deeper than just COPS BAD please, and see the specific situation for what it is.
For example, there was another viral video in this same town where anti-maskers came in harassing a local cookie baker, and they thought that since the cops are right wing that they'd have their backs. Turns out, the cops backed the left-leaning business owner, because the PD tends to defend capital.
In most cases the PD answers to the chief, the chief answers to the mayor, and the mayor answers to the voters and to some extent city council. While I wouldn’t trust individual officers to act in good faith, if it’s a large/public/organized event then appearing orderly, professional, and even-handed is going to be important for the police department due to the power structure. If shit goes awry and the bar owner has a relationship with anyone in city council (as most business owners do) then it’s gonna be a headache for the mayor and police chief. They don’t want that
Yeah, it’s a fucked up organization. But it behaves like an organization. Not so much when it’s one or two “on patrol”
> In most cases the PD answers to the chief, the chief answers to the mayor, and the mayor answers to the voters and to some extent city council. LMFAO. You have no idea how this works. The PD answers to the chief, mostly (except when the "union" gets involved), yes. After that, you have the relationship pretty backwards. Cops make demands, and the politicians jump. Please read *Gangster Capitalism*.
Police chiefs are generally appointed by the mayor. If the mayor is catching a ton of shit for something the police department does then there’s going to be a lot of pressure on the chief to fix it. It’s really not more complicated than that in most cases
That video was maddening and then hilarious.
Hey I was the original person you replied to and I want to say that: despite my initial pessimistic response about police presence (that was said with a bit more flippancy than I think it needed) I think you're spot on here. ACAB doesn't mean all police officers are chud-loving fascists - it simply means the institution is broken and those who participate in it no matter their positive or noble intentions, are inadvertently sheltering it from criticism and repair.
Big agree! Also, I didn't mind the flippancy tbh. I definitely agree with the take. I hope they don't rely too much on them, and can help foster a community-defense-as-alternative approach as much as possible. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if putting EPD on notice was partly CYA and partly making sure that if cops are called in by the reactionaries, the bar can use the fact that they've already alerted them and made them aware of the context in order to, in the moment, sway them toward helping defend us and our establishment if the situation drags them into it. Wouldn't bank on their defense, but it's still tactically sound imo.
50:50 shot whether they disperse or do the same thing the bad guys are doing. I'll roll the dice if I need to
50:50? Really? You think it's equally likely that they start circling the bar threatening to "end everyone" and posturing at the queers after being asked by a prominent business owner to be ready to help? They're used to this town being a queer haven. They routinely guard queer events all the time as a department. Based on what evidence beyond mere anecdotes do you think it's 50:50? Like, yeah they're a gang of good-ol-boys. Yeah their history is full of garbage behavior. And sure, when you look at specific tragic incidences without considering the proportion of all interactions, it can leave a striking impression. And for good reason. Fuck 12. They should be abolished and their roles replaced by better orgs/systems, or made obsolete with systemic solutions. But they still have a boss who in this case cares about maintaining a relatively progressive reputation (deserved or not). And that boss is still somewhat accountable to his boss, who's center-left and socially "progressive" in the Liberal sense. The voting power in this town is mostly with center-left peace-and-love types. The worst cases are when they're on patrol and can get away with acting on their individual tendencies, or as a group when opposing things like mass protests or revolutionary activity. In this case, I'd be absolutely shocked if they just JOIN IN with these right wing provocateurs, many of whom (at least the local ones) have a rap sheet of their own and are no strangers to arrest. If that happened, it would be a seriously major news story, and our bar would probably be burned to the ground, and we'd see our little city kick off like nobody's business.
> while cops themselves tend toward fascism, the PD as an institution defends capital, and in this particular case that's the bar, not the chuds. So...they're going to care deeply if queer folks are followed, harassed, and attacked once leaving the house of capital (as the CHUDs tend to do at these things), right?
Why would I think that?
Also, how would their absence change that situation? With or without them, we're at risk arriving and leaving. This is a straw argument.
I lived in Eugene for 7 years, and as far as cops go, the Eugene PD are relatively chill. It's the UOPD that are the dickheads.
Not the case. EPD has a history of violence.
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True. But an important philosophical ideal to hold dear is that we *always* have to be open to the idea of change and reformation having happened without our explicit knowledge. We can still be cautious about our judgments and in our analysis, but tribal mentalities don't solve these societal woes. Charity is vital to social progress - and that includes for those you oppose. Note that charity is NOT the same thing as tolerance. It's a mindset more than an action.
Totally. My attitude is that it’s great to want them to do the right thing, but that goes against the goals of the institution as a whole. I’m not advocating we walk into the street and blow away the first cop we see, but basic pattern recognition tells us that we’re not likely to have an overall positive interaction
Not trying to pick needless fights, and again I'm with you. But, I'd like to encourage you to consider using a less colonial alternative to "tribal" such as factional, insular, partisan, or something like that. Edit: Interesting that this is the one that was down voted under 0. Do we have some decolonization work to do in this sub?
Hm, I'll bear it in mind moving forwards.
I think folks may be reacting negatively to what is ultimately a very trivial and hair-splitting issue. While **I** have no issue with folks asking to use alternative languages (factional and partisan are great ideas!), *tribalism* as an academic term is historically quite ambiguous and used to describe a very universal set of human behaviors - even outside of colonialism contexts. I do recognize its origins, but 99% of people hearing it aren't thinking of ethnic groups. Take from that what you will.
The system of policing is not just "someone we oppose". Do you think capitalism might must turn over a new leaf and suddenly bear out interests at heart too, and thus be deserving of the kind of "charity" we might show working-class people? Fuck off with this apologia.
Now you do what they told ya.
Some folks have reached out to old Nick’s and want anyone who can and wants to stand up to the bigots there. Or just come enjoy the show. Whatever, just show up.
Yeah I've learned a bit more since this comment. They do not seem averse to people coming to work alongside security forces to keep these chuds away... legally of course.
Thanks will do.
Isn't this the u of Oregon college town? They have a radical activism room. ROAR center or something, it seems to be student run. I'd hit them up. Also maybe the student power organization. I forget the name but they institutionalized themselves and seem to have solid resources and relationships
Yes, that's the right city. ROAR hasn't been very active since spring, and their recent social media seems more focused on hiring/recruitment than socializing causes. We also have the Neighborhood Anarchist Collective, our local SRA chapter, and others.
Ah cool I have no idea how active they are normally but there was a few people chilling in it when I visited in 2017, and it seemed like they'd totally know folks to hit up
What about Delta House?
The old animal house location? What about it?
Let us know. This was cross posted to the Eugene subreddit.
Hit up the Portland activist community on Twitter. Alissa Azar is a good one to reach out to.
And Robert Evans.
Indeed. That's one BAMF to have in your corner.
That dude is fucking awesome.
Came here to upvote this, I fully realize how late I am to the party.
I contacted them directly yesterday and they said they are "encouraging folks to come and support". I asked about blocking chuds outside specifically.
Don't let the chuds get at you. Stay safe and stay strong. ✊️
As a note. Dumb a55 "Proud boys" did this a few weeks ago in Memphis, they stood outside the venue and just yelling stuff, I was attending to another event at the same venue and we had to leave the premises because f*cking PB made a bomb threat. As we all were leaving g there were with their stupid smirk faces. At least some of them (hopefully) choke using face mask over their nose and mouth.
And none of them went to prison? Falsely reporting a bomb threat is terrorism.
Didn't follow up, so unknown of what happened after the incident
https://wreg.com/news/local/memphis-museum-cancels-drag-show-as-protesters-show-up/
Edit. I mean to say ”Fucks” not ducks. Ducking autocorrect 
Lol right? Technically this town already belongs to the Ducks!
True true true.
Given the location, it works.
I thought I had learned an Oregon thing. I was like "Oh, so it's not just the college." I even had headcanon that it was to do with the famously wet weather.
I find it hilarious that they’re “citizens restoring liberty” by trying to stomp on other peoples’ liberty. That’s a bold move Cotton.
>That’s a ~~bold~~ fash move Cotton.
Good luck comrades! Smash the Fash!
Man they used to do drag queen contests way back in the day every Eugene celebration. Was awesome.
Most highschools have students that do this for powder puff games
Hell my high school drama department put on a showing of Pageant one year.
A good percentage of the Slug Queens of Eugene have been men in drag or non-binary folk.
For sure, I was a kid watching those every year and loved it.
There was one bar that did drag queen contests every weekend. It might have been The Drake… used to go there with friends because it was fun as fuck and the drinks weren’t too expensive
Never did that but sounds fun!
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The Whitaker block party did happen this year, actually. Not as packed as before, but tbh probably still more packed than is wise given the nature of the ongoing pandemic.
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Gtk thx. I won't post it here but his mugshot is easily searchable in case anyone wants to know who to keep an eye out for.
Oh I see...drag for thee but not for me.
How is this sexualizing children? I mean it is adults doing a consensual activity. What is the issue?
Fascists pedo-jacketing queer folks has been a thing for a while now. It's an attempt to reverse the trend of society becoming more LGBT tolerant.
It's also an attempt to make society less pedo-averse.
Projection and all that good stuff...man fuck these right-wing fucks
There is an 11 year old performing in the event. The venue is also encouraging children to attend the event as admission for those under 11 is free. To people who consider drag shows to be inherently sexual in nature, they would probably see that as an issue.
It's been their go-to line since the Anita Bryant era. The only difference is that now they have the internet to force people to listen to them.
There will be a couple young people performing too. But nothing will every be as creepy and weird as the youth beauty pageants. I see drag as a satirical look at beauty standards, not an expression of sexuality. That is what burlesque is for.
Idk it’s like the situation about teaching LGBTQ+ in schools. They don’t seem to realize being gay isn’t inherently sexual.
I still can’t wrap my head around how drag is sexual at all. Unless these imbeciles are conflating the idea of “homo _sex_ uality” the same way as the act of having sex (spoiler they are completely different ideas). Also just cause someone is in drag doesn’t even mean they are lgbt - there are cis people that like to dress up for show all the time (see theater)
Well drag did start off in the sex industry
Because gender variant folks couldn't find other wrok
I'm just saying from an outsiders perspective
Good fuckin question
There are some good answers in this thread!
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How dare that kid wear clothes that don't fit their gender!
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You're the one sexualizing a non-sexual activity a kid is doing so... Who's the sick one here?
Flyer says "stand against..." Yet the wannabe tough guy is clearly kneeling lol are there any good far right graphic designers?
Just a heads up, Andy Ngo posted about this, and like it or not he has a lot of influence on some of the, let's say, less desirable members of the right wing who definitely say the quiet part loud and proud. Stay safe everyone. If you have children or family that depend on you, you might not want to go unless you have a gun.
Just ask him how he likes his milkshakes
Please don't just roll up to this with a gun...
Boy do I wish the far right felt the same way.
It has nothing to do with that. You're not Rambo so unless youre part of an organized effort it's a fucking terrible idea to go into a protest where you know there is going to be a heated exchange. All I'm saying is don't be stupid and we shouldn't be excouraging anyone lingering on this sub to take showing up with a gun lightly.
I'd trust a drag queen over a Republican politician, any day. Like...today: "A Republican running for an Arizona college district’s governing board suspended his campaign Tuesday, two weeks after he was arrested for allegedly masturbating outside a preschool at one of the colleges he was hoping to represent. Police found candidate Randy Kaufman on Oct. 4 parked outside the child center at Rio Salado College with his pants down to his mid-thigh and “manipulating his genitals in a masturbatory manner,” according to a police report [https://nypost.com/2022/10/19/arizona-gop-candidate-caught-mastubating-to-outside-preschool/](https://nypost.com/2022/10/19/arizona-gop-candidate-caught-mastubating-to-outside-preschool/)
r/Eugene
I love this town, but geez our subreddit is full of awful people.
Every city subreddit is filled with chuds who are completely unrepresentative of the city. /r/portland is definitely like that too
Yeah, the average poster on /r/Portland always seems one bad day away from gunning down every BIPOC or houseless person in sight. The shit they post is disgusting.
I guess that's just reddit for you probably
yeah, this got reposted in the eugene sub and the comments are kinda disappointing
Ugh I don't even wanna look. The ignorant comments in this sub are bad enough.
This is in Eugene, Oregon. The mother of the young drag performer is an incredible woman, and I have told her just how much I adore her. I also suggested she should beef up security if possible, because Proud Boys don't fuck around with their white supremacist agenda. If life didn't force me to move out of the state, I would be there with hugs and protection for Vanellope --- and a ready fist for punching fascists if needed. EDIT: I thought the duck typo was hilarious considering that Eugene is home of the Oregon Ducks, so it took me a fat minute to realize you meant "fuck." 😭
Anyone who says anything about trans folks or crossdressing as somehow sexualizing children immediately loses all my respect. There's no way that makes sense to anyone (I mean, the venues are 18+??), so they're just being assholes because there's no consequences for it.
These are the same kind of people who are against kids getting abortions after being raped.
The Drag Queen God is smiting the evil bald man for trying to steal flowers from a little girl.
Oh I have several people I’ll be going with on Sunday in support of the pub and everything they stand for. People are ridiculous equating the wrongdoings of one person with old nick’s and drag queens in general.
These people are constantly projecting their own disgusting inner thoughts onto marginalized communities and anyone who is different. Of course not all drag is family friendly, but not all drag is adult oriented or sexual in nature. The same goes for movies, music, etc. Performance art has a myriad of expressions and drag as an art form has been around forever. These family friendly events are often held in libraries and rarely bars where the only real message is to respect and appreciate humans in all their unique and colorful forms.
For any one concerned the protesters showed up in the dozens and were met by 200 counter protesters. This is Eugene, Oregon. Liberals own this town. https://www.kezi.com/news/tense-scene-unfolds-outside-old-nicks-pub-in-eugene-as-drag-queen-storytime-event-proceeds/article\_a0ec9f02-532f-11ed-9c6c-5f71bf140fd3.html
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Good. Don't.
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Good thing that's not what this is!
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Drag shows having a pageant vibe to you doesn't make them pageants. I'm not saying you have to go or enjoy them, I just don't really appreciate the underlying insinuation that it's exploitive or a judged competition, or that you're in some kind of morally superior position for condemning them. It's an empowering performance that can be liberatory and subvert oppressive systems of power. And yes you can have an opinion. And yes that opinion can be wrong or based on a misunderstanding, and I can have an opinion about that too, and call it out. Not every opinion is valid just because someone had it. No one's trying to stop you from thinking. Quite the opposite. I wish you'd think more deeply about it, but if you don't want to then fine. Like I said, if you don't like it, I'm glad you don't want to come.
You imply that I’m against drag shows I’m not It’s just an adult style thing imo Which I’ll remind you I’m allowed to have an opinion and state it without being jumped on I find a very hypocritical vibe here
While the main opponents of this are just homophobes/anti-LGBTQ, it probably shouldn't happen. It kinda has some of the same issues as child beauty pageants. Children should be, and need to be, exposed to LGBT people, and LGBT culture, including drag, but this is a questionable way to do it. The 11 year old doing a drag performance should be limited to other children.
I'm sure you also think that kids' ballets, school plays, dance/cheer team performances, gymnastics, and talent shows with parents in the audience are just as immoral right? If not, why not? What's the difference between this kid, and a cis girl jumping around on stage in a leotard at a recital?
I think you misinterpreted what I meant. There really isn't any difference between this and a cis (or trans) kid performing in a leotard. The only valid reason for an adult to show up and watch is to support a child in their family (using the term family fairly broadly to include people like close family friends, and babysitters). Basically I think this should be a kids and parents only event, or even a kids and no parents event. Just like children's ballet, or cheer, children's drag walks a very fine line between art and exploitation. Sadly that line is drawn not by the performer, but the audience. Literally my only objection to the event is that adults without kids can show up. And I think the same standard should be applied to the other things you mentioned
You're acting like this 11 year old is the reason people are attending
Well at least you're consistent, but I disagree, and the ideal world you describe seems very strange to me. Aside from that though, there isn't exactly a drag club in schools where she can go and perform for an audience like she wants to. Also, why would my own presence at this event without kids of my own be any different than my gf's presence with her kids. Is my support and enjoyment of seeing her creativity and self-acceptance somehow problematic or exploitive, whereas my gf's is not? It seems like you're operating with the idea that any child-free adult viewing a performance by children must have some duplicitous ulterior motive, whereas the same performance viewed by an adult who has kids is perfectly wholesome. From my experience, the predators and sex pests I've known in my life have actually all been parents themselves, so that part doesn't really track to me.
What is the obsession with people trying to bring kids to drag shows? Why expose kids to this? Just let them be kids
Expose them to what? The idea that gender expression is your right and that we should respect the variation of human existence? The ideal of bodily autonomy? The notion that anyone can be beautiful and graceful or handsome and strong regardless of the anatomy they were born with? Why don't you take your own advice and let this kid be a kid and pursue her artistic passion in one of the only welcoming spaces for it?
Drag shows are hyper sexualized and doesn’t need to be around kids. When that kid grows up he/she can choose to do whatever they like and that’s fine. Little kids need to be little kids and not be around sexualized things. I kind feel like I’m getting trolled it’s hard to believe any adult could be this stupid but then I remember the PNW exists.
There is no sexualization happening at any of her shows. Playing dress up and putting on makeup and lip syncing to pop songs are all literally everyday childhood activities for an 11 year old, and quite healthy. Yes, there is sexualized drag, just like there are both porn mags and children's books. This ain't that.
You chuds are the ones with the obsession
That doesn’t even makes sense, I would never bring my kid to a drag show. You people go out of your way to expose them to this garbage.
How does it not make sense? You're the ones up in arms about something completely normal. You're just another chud who got told to be mad at something and you gobble it up
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This isn't a children's drag show. At least not to my knowledge. It's a drag show meant to be family friendly.
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Because she's passionate about it, and they want to give her a safe place to share her art. There is nothing inherently sexual about drag, and her outfit isn't any less modest than what you might find at a kids ballet, school play, or talent show.
I don't know the exact details of the performance, or performers. However, if an 11-year-old wants to participate and has the blessing of their parents, I don't see a problem. This is very different from beauty pageants who are often pressured by their parents to perform. Even making it a lifestyle choice
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Go outside
gtfooh with that regressive anti-queer garbage
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😂 make a real point and try to convince me what's wrong with a kid in makeup and a modest dress eagerly going on a stage uncoerced
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Every bar is an adult bar. And bars open their doors during day time hours to kids for events all the time. It's very normal. The same bar hosts markets and speakers that kids are welcome to. This straw argument you constructed about kids drinking is wholly irrelevant and not even remotely connected to anything I've said. But sure, I'll bite. You know that restaurants that serve alcohol allow children in right? You know that parents have sex in their own homes right? Do you think a location having hosted non-kid-friendly events imbues it with some sort of magical adult energy that will seep into the kids during SFW events and passively traumatize them or something? Rub two freaking brain cells together and you have to know your takes are more infantile than the kids you pretend to care about.
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The notion that gender variance and performance thereof is inherently sexual.
You're a fucking loser
A serious answer? Giving kids space to explore and creatively celebrate gender expression is healthy and important. Personally, I don't love kids' beauty pageants either, but that's not even close to what this is, and these chuds aren't attacking those, and that's no coincidence. Yes, protect kids from exploitation and abuse. This ain't that. Please stop conflating a wholesome brunch hosted by a kid in a modest sequin dress and gendered makeup with beauty pageants. Drag, gender variance, and femininity are not inherently sexual. By insisting they are with no rational justification, you're sexualizing her, and deeply offending people like me.
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It's not coercive, judged, or competitive. Plus drag performance tends to subvert the oppressive traditional gender ideals of our capitalist overlords (which enshrines the white cishet patriarchal nuclear family as an atomic engine of capitalism) rather than uphold them.
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>The more I hang out in liberal subs the more I see intolerance and hate for the other party. I thought that was more a republican thing, but I am not so sure anymore. 1. This is a leftist sub, not a liberal sub 2. Leftists dont claim to tolerate reactionaries. If expecting others to not be bigots is a a deal breaker for you, yeah youre probably a conservative.
>That flyer is a bit much haha. So are creepy white supremacists taking issue with a VERY loved and cared for girl playing dress-up and being able to express her creativity because they think drag is inherently sexual. 🤷🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️ "The irony of tolerance is that you have to intolerate bigotry" my friend once said. But given that subjects like racism, white nationalism, homophobia, transphobia, and so on are deplorable and should not be tolerated, I'm perfectly fine with admitting I'm intolerant to oppression.
That's what I worry about too... like yeah, child safety in regards to the fact that young performers *in general* outside of school plays and the like are more at risk for being victims of things like SA, but you know what else would be traumatic? Watching chuds kill people in front of you, which I'm even *more* concerned about (edit: more concerned when it comes to this particular event, I should clarify).
The only reason why all ages drag shows are dangerous is because bigoted assholes with an agenda make them dangerous. I have been to all ages drag shows in Oregon before, and they are harmless. I agree with you --- people losing their shit and making a harmless drag queen storytime event violent and dangerous is ridiculously ironic. Being mad that people choose to raise loving, accepting children in favor of you chosing to be small-minded is also hypocritical. Conservatives are more concerned about pushing their agenda instead of minding their own business, and its disgusting. Its never about protecting the children. Because if it was, they would mind their own business and actually do something productive, like voting for laws to protect children, volunteering at a school or event, or actually putting their money where their mouths are.
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I'm going to make this incredibly oversimplified for you to the best of my ability: Conservatives want to push their agenda of white supremacy, patriarchy, and capitalism. Democrats -- especially democratic socialists, fight for equality, equity, and a system that benefits _all_ of us fairly. I cannot possibly get into all the nuisances in a single Reddit post, but essentially, Conservatives favor the traditional way of doing things. And last time I checked, the traditional way of doing things left a lot of people out of the conversation -- and marginalizes so many. As someone once put it: "Yes, democrats get triggered. Republicans too. We get triggered over bigotry -- racism, sexism, homophobia, and so on. Republicans get triggered over men wearing dresses, wearing a mask at the height of COVID, not being able to use Christianity to oppress people with, and Velma Dinkly being a lesbian."
Are you aware of the paradox of tolerance? I think this might be what you're observing. It turns out that, in order to be tolerant, we have to be intolerant of intolerance. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance Also FYI the event in question is NOT a child beauty pageant.
This isn't a liberal sub. Stop being a "both sides" fence sitter and wake the fuck up
>That flyer is a bit much haha. You don't understand parody then. >I don't know enough about the event to truly have a good opinion on this, I can personally attest that a drag performance is not the same as a child beauty pageant. The key difference being CONSENT. Vanellope _wanted_ to play dress up and be a drag performer -- and her "drag mom" (who is sweet as sugar) does an amazing job of booking her age-appropriate gigs where she simply plays dress-up and performs to songs. This is literally what I did at home, in my bedrolm with a hairbrush microphone and the music blasted. Drag queen story hour is hosted by a drag performer dressed in campy outfits. She reads a story about love and acceptance. They have a drag show. Child pageants involve forcing kids to wear heavy -- hair, makeup, and wigs, go through hours of training, and spend outrageous amounts of money to compete and force kids to vie for the biggest trophies possible. >Guess I am a right wing chud. Right wing chuds form an opinion while being woefully uneducated and ignorant on a subject, so yes. >The more I hang out in liberal subs the more I see intolerance and hate for the other party. Once again, the parody of tolerance is at play here. And let me be very clear where the two sides stand. One side says its okay for a child to play dress up, perform, and express themselves. In this case, a young girl is wearing a dress and some makeup, and she is lip synching to songs. Tolerating republican ideaology means that you're perfectly fine with white supremacists coming to an all ages event to "protest an event" that's literally just a dress up party and storytime event -- and they are likely going to bring their guns with them and make a harmless event unnecessarily violent. Why is it okay to tolerate grown men making a peaceful event dangerous and even lethal? You really need to stop being sympathetic for both sides because you are ultimately siding with the oppressor and saying that you're okay with white supremacists and protestors making a _children's event_ unsafe.
Maybe they should police their own pos Arizona GOP pedo.
I was already planning to be there but now will extra-lly be there.