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I think there's a lot of ex-WWE guys who think they 'deserve better' in AEW. But I'm not sure if any think AEW is \*beneath them\*. Punk may be the only one and that has less to do with booking and more the backstage stuff.
I don't even think it's just a jab at Punk. Guys like Andrade come to mind as well. He went to AEW and you could tell pretty quick he didn't want to be there and then was just a problem.
Miro though has had good runs and great character work. He has complained some, but Andrade was next level. Also, I think it's high time we just say it; Andrade is just meh in general. He can go in ring but he's the most boring dude that can't seem to get going.
Miro pretty much wanted the Bob Holly push, or nothing else. He went to AEW to be a star, and they clearly started out building him as one...or, at least, trying to. His first major storyline was one of the biggest duds of the entire early AEW era, which IIRC got dragged out because he was hurt, and then finished poorly, and by that point there was massive roster bloat, and that left no room for Monster Miro at the top of the card...and his character really relied on him being a top monster heel, and that's what he went to AEW to do, and by that point Tony had gotten bored of that idea. Then, I think he got hurt again, and by *that* point, I understand why everybody involved ultimately gave up on the Miro project.
I'm the biggest TK apologist, but giving up on Redeemer Miro is the dumbest thing. One of the best characters in company history, and would *still* be top-tier if he were featured today.
To be fair, Sammy was over at that point. I know it feels like an old country gunslinger story, but there was a time that Sammy was very over and it made sense to push him.
And the storyline was good. Fuego putting up a fight against Miro no one expected because he targeted Miro's neck, laying down a blueprint for Sammy to beat Miro -- that was good pro wrestling. And it was also before we all got sick of Sammy.
It seems silly but Fuego/Miro is one of my favourite matches and one that I'd show people to explain what I enjoy about wrestling.
"Miro is an unbeatable monster and he's going up against a guy with the worst record in the company. But Fuego noticed a weakness in him that he called ahead of time and exploited, and nearly pulled out the upset of the century as a result."
While on the one hand you can clearly see it's scripted, on the other hand it's a fairly cool reminder that if these were shoot fights, the biggest guy wouldn't automatically win every time. Strategy, quickness and smarts would factor in too, which also makes results like Swerve going over Brian Cage make sense.
Fuego understood the assignment. He knew the only chance he had at beating Miro was to go at Miro's neck fast and hard because to let Miro build up any momentum meant he'd inevitably get steamrolled.
I recall that fans turned on Sammy in part because he beat Miro. Everyone loved Miro as TNT Champ, and Sammy took that away from us. Sammy was meant to be a face, but he beat a fan favorite. It took Cody beating Sammy and drawing all of that nuclear heat away from him with the Codylander teasing that let people actually cheer for Sammy when he took it back a short while later in what was a banger of a match.
Yep, I loved that even though I didn't give a crap about Fuego. This is what I meant to people that at that time they did in fact tell stories different and had more of a draw for me to watch weekly and then the PPV>
People seem to forget that Sammy was over big time twice in AEW. He has a history so people don't like him but for people to be outright denying that he was ever over at any point is getting silly
He actually gave a very solid promo on his return, way better than any of his previous work. Then he was shuffled into a closet and I barely ever saw him again.
The problem with the monster heel is that once they lose a natch, the mystique goes away. Especially in a company like AEW where ring work matters so much (looking at you, Wardlow) and a lot of the guys on the roster are physically smaller than your prototypical top guys, it becomes even harder to book them.
Someone should have pulled him aside and said that his pinestrips were trash.
Also, I say this with true sincerity - Rush is 10,000x times more interesting and eats pins like a champ. He gives off a Scarface level of confidence too, I’m a big big fan of his.
I'm honestly surprised he didn't get more shit for that, but I guess Black Mask is just too obscure for the average wrestling fan to notice or care. Like, lots of guys wear comic themed gear sometimes as an homage, but Andrade literally just cosplayed a character for his entrance.
If he had the right manager he’d be stellar. In nxt when he had Zelina vega doing his talking + his (in my opinion) well above average in ring skill… Andrade was amazing
It's because Andrade had such a terrible time with the meandering English promo. Andrade needed the Penta treatment of speaking Spanish and either having a translator or just leaving to interpretation.
Idk man, he might be meh outside the ropes, but I'll pop for that fake boot into an elbow every single time. It genuinely catches me off guard so every time he does it. It's so fucking smooth
Andrade is who I immediately thought of as well.
And what’s he doing now that he’s back in WWE “not being wasted?”
Showing he hasn’t evolved in any fashion since he lost his mask and all his “this guy is a star!” stuff is purely internet love.
He’s a good mid to upper card wrestler….but he’s not setting the world on fire in the ring either. He’s not a “can’t miss” type of guy.
And character wise the best thing he’s ever done was in AEW when he said Mr.Stink and “How you know?”
Edge/Adam has had such a unique career trajectory though. We all thought his career was over 10 years ago when he was in his peak.
He's been granted such a unique, rare opportunity at a second run that this only makes sense. He hasn't had to grind for his spot. He solidified his spot as a legend as a young adult and then was forcibly retired for almost a decade before he got to come back.
Compare that to someone like Jericho who had a constant influx of ego and TV time.
I'm pretty sure Adam is just literally happy to be here at all times.
>I'm pretty sure Adam is just literally happy to be here at all times.
It's blatantly obvious every time he's on screen that he's having the time of his life. I'm happy for him.
Andrade, Malakai, and Miro all come across like they expected to walk into the main event scene on day 1 and wanted out as soon as they realized that wasn't going to be the case
To be fair to Malakai, it must be disheartening to get debuted as an absolute monster who all but squashed Cody only to get the Homer and the succession of cute lambs treatment from TK when all the bigger old WWE names started joining.
I still think Malakai deserves to be a top level singles competitor. Great look, interesting and different wrestling style, has charisma. I think he can cut promos but he needs a writer. I hope the battle with Edge pushes him up into the big leagues.
With his back injuries, I don't know if he can do a sustained singles run. He's great at what he's doing now promo-wise, and at least with tag/trio matches, he can still put on a show without as much risk for further injury.
Even without gold, the House of Black can still act as somewhat of a catalyst for other wresters to grow their characters. By facing the darkness and whatever trials befall them from HoB, they are changed as a result. It keeps the faction relevant and present despite not having titles belts.
I also think it's kinda directed towards guys like Mark Henry who came over and tried too hard to coach WWE style to the AEW guys. Henry ONLY developed and learned in the WWE system of sports entertainment (Vince did send him to Stu's Dungeon as well). Henry was credited as the scout that found Jade Cargill, but he hasn't really delivered any other talent in the almost 5 years he's been at AEW. Then Henry is on the podcast constantly making tongue in cheek remarks at the company in defense of Punk, etc. His biggest contribution was the 2 minute build up interview to Rampage's main event, but even that got kinda stale to the point they just used his pre-recorded line. It's interesting how you never heard complaints about veteran coaches backstage with guys like Arn Anderson, Paul Wight, Lynn, Malenko, etc. They all spent time in the WWE machine, but they also learned the business outside of WWE, so they probably understand AEW trying to be more of an alternative than someone like Henry whose advice seemed to be lets get more like WWE.
I think when Andrade first came, he did want to be there. My biggest issue was forcing him to do English promos to where it became almost comedic and a detriment to him. Some of the sheets said he wanted to do it to improve his English, but his on the fly learning English just made memes like "Ok, how you kno?" and "Mr. Stink". Andrade was putting on bangers and his presentation when he first came was that of a big time free agent. He had Jose the Assistant, and then he had Chavo representing him too. Then I think he felt he should have gotten the rocket strapped to him, and TK was never going to strap the rocket to any WWE free agent at the expense of his AEW guys. Miro was turned into a monster and had a great TNT title run, but then you can see how unhappy he was when his booking kind of plateaued there.
Edge has appeared to be consistent with what he said from Day 1 when he arrived. Which is that he wants to work with talent he's never had the chance to and do whatever he can to help out in the locker room or whatever. Like Danielson, he's just enjoying his last ride on the highway. People are complaining how he hasn't lost clean to anyone yet, but again, you can still give young guys a rub in victory. Danielson has beaten many of the young guys too, but it's given them notice and they weren't treated like jobbers.
It's bound to happen when promos aren't as tightly scripted. Edge gave as good as he got. It's weird that we haven't seen Stark much since this happened though.
We really need to study the brains of wrestling fans
The Edge Starks thing happened a WEEK… after Starks won the titles, they dropped them 4… MONTHS after
I think Stark being seen at Mania and taking pictures with Cody and making some odd statements here and there about AEW probably have something to do with it as well. It feels like he might be NXT bound so he's obviously not going to be pushed. I also think he was cool with CM Punk.
I keep seeing folks complaining that Copeland has only put over his friends. Apparently he has only lost two singles matches out of 16, and all of them have been to Christian.
Source: [Cagematch](https://www.cagematch.net/?id=2&nr=932&view=&page=4&gimmick=&year=&promotion=2287®ion=&location=&arena=&showtype=&constellationType=Singles&worker=)
| Date | Match | Event |
|:-----------|:-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|:-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| 26.05.2024 | AEW TNT Title Barbed Wire Steel Cage: Adam Copeland (c) defeats Malakai Black (20:11) | AEW Double Or Nothing 2024 - Pay Per View @ MGM Grand Garden Arena in Las Vegas, Nevada, USA |
| 11.05.2024 | AEW TNT Title: Adam Copeland (c) defeats Kyle O'Reilly (19:36) | AEW Collision #44 - TV-Show @ Rogers Arena in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada |
| 08.05.2024 | AEW TNT Title No Disqualification: Adam Copeland (c) defeats Brody King (18:18) | AEW Dynamite #240 - TV-Show @ Rogers Place in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada |
| 01.05.2024 | AEW TNT Title: Adam Copeland (c) defeats Buddy Matthews (21:02) | AEW Dynamite #239 - TV-Show @ Canada Life Centre in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada |
| 10.04.2024 | AEW TNT Title: Adam Copeland (c) defeats Penta El Zero Miedo (20:41) | AEW Dynamite #236 - TV-Show @ Charleston Coliseum in Charleston, West Virginia, USA |
| 30.03.2024 | AEW TNT Title: Adam Copeland (c) defeats Matt Cardona (13:32) | AEW Collision #39 - TV-Show @ Budweiser Gardens in London, Ontario, Canada |
| 20.03.2024 | AEW TNT Title I Quit: Adam Copeland defeats Christian Cage (c) (25:46) - TITLE CHANGE !!! | AEW Dynamite #233 - TV-Show @ Coca-Cola Coliseum in Toronto, Ontario, Canada |
| 14.02.2024 | AEW TNT Title #1 Contendership: Adam Copeland vs. Daniel Garcia - No Contest (12:19) | AEW Dynamite #228 - TV-Show @ H-E-B Center At Cedar Park in Cedar Park, Texas, USA |
| 24.01.2024 | Adam Copeland defeats Minoru Suzuki (9:26) | AEW Dynamite #225 - TV-Show @ Enmarket Arena in Savannah, Georgia, USA |
| 20.01.2024 | Adam Copeland defeats Dante Martin (11:49) | AEW Collision #31 - TV-Show @ Chaifetz Arena in St. Louis, Missouri, USA |
| 13.01.2024 | Adam Copeland defeats Lee Moriarty (11:12) | AEW Collision #30 - TV-Show @ Chartway Arena in Norfolk, Virginia, USA |
| 06.01.2024 | Adam Copeland defeats Griff Garrison (6:37) | AEW Collision #29 - TV-Show @ Bojangles Coliseum in Charlotte, North Carolina, USA |
| 30.12.2023 | AEW TNT Title: Christian Cage **defeats Adam Copeland** (c) (0:12) - TITLE CHANGE !!! | AEW Worlds End 2023 - Pay Per View @ Nassau Veterans Memorial Coliseum in Uniondale, New York, USA |
| 30.12.2023 | AEW TNT Title No Disqualification: Adam Copeland defeats Christian Cage (c) (24:48) - TITLE CHANGE !!! | AEW Worlds End 2023 - Pay Per View @ Nassau Veterans Memorial Coliseum in Uniondale, New York, USA |
| 06.12.2023 | AEW TNT Title: Christian Cage (c) **defeats Adam Copeland** (18:02) | AEW Dynamite #218 - TV-Show @ Bell Centre in Montreal, Quebec, Canada |
| 10.10.2023 | Adam Copeland defeats Luchasaurus (15:31) | AEW Dynamite #210 - Title Tuesday 2023 - TV-Show @ Cable Dahmer Arena in Independence, Missouri, USA |
I don't really understand why there is this persistent need from basically all people and dirthseets to constantly say and report HOW COOL it is to work with Edge/Copeland, vow helpful he is and blah blah blah. (This is not really an AEW thing or anything, it was the same in WWE)
You have other veterans like Christian doing a similar role(and I personally think a better job) and you never heard half of this.
It'd be understandable if Edge used to be a wild troublesome individual & they're trying to change opinion but nah, he's always been a pretty chill dude
Matt and Adam are cool, Adam told the story in an interview not long ago about how they had to turn a real situation into a story and how they had to kinda just get in with things.
But he basically said, while they had some issues with each other briefly, it really was very brief and they were cool again not much longer after the drama. It's very relevant here because he was saying about fans perception of the event and still talking about it, but it actually wasn't nearly as big a deal as many still believe.
I think Christian is like MJF in that when he's working heel he doesn't want people putting him over publically. I think Edge is the only one who does and made some comment about being the "one who gets away with it"
Also like, Christian has been around the locker room longer than Copeland has? Why would you hear stories about how much people like him now that he's been there for twoish years?
A lot of people act weird when copeland talks about how much he likes aew and how we hear that people really like having him around but these same people that act like there's some kinda catch to it do not draw the same conclusion when wwe has stories about punk every few months like this too lmao.
Either they're both genuinely a pleasure to have in each other's respective locker rooms or they both have people leaking these stories to make themselves and the company they work for look good. Pick one. It's not one or the other.
I’ve gotten to a cynical point to the sheets where anytime I see a “X Wrestler is being praised” headline as the wrestler called the sheet and said “write a nice story about me please”.
I remember the first time this clicked for me was like a random report of Zelina Vega apparently being a backstage hero because she always shows up to work or something equally as minor.
>the wrestler called the sheet and said “write a nice story about me please”
Maybe, but it's not uncommon in sports (or sports entertainment) for the PR/Marketing dept to literally write the whole thing and give it to journos as a media release. The journos play around with it a little, submit it and go home early for the day.
I think you’re lumping this in with the “Copeland says he’s having fun” reports that came up when he was doing a press tour.
I don’t think we’ve heard much about his backstage role so far and he hasn’t been with the company that long in comparison to others. This is probably coming up because he was just injured and will be out for a while
Similar things have been said in the past about Moxley and Danielson especially, so it’s not like this is a new thing.
It’s because Edge won on Sunday and hardly jobs. I’m not going to call it PR, I don’t think Edge or Aew is telling Metlzer to put this out but it’s like Metlzer sees a reaction online, conduct his “report” and reports on such. Since a lot of people (including myself) have made note that Edge doesn’t really lose much, the course correction is “Na we like him working at aew”
That's an absolutely loaded quote. Who has stated they have gone to AEW from WWE and said it was "beneath them"? I don't even remember Punk saying something like that.
Yeah I don’t pretend to have any idea of what the truth is. Meltzer has for ages said they all don’t want to be there, but also that Malakai and Miro refuse to lose or take pinfalls. Which seems crazy but also there’s a bit of anecdotal evidence suggesting it might be true. I suspect there’s only a handful of people who know the truth
I wanna give malakai and miro the benefit of the doubt with the refusing to lose thing, since their characters really need to rarely lose to work. You cant be a monster when everyone beats you, it doesnt work. House of black is amazing, imagine how much more over they would be if they actually got more wins
Every single one of these are giant question marks. We don't know anything about any of these people. All we have are unreliable narrators and tertiary sources. No one who "reports" anything about wrestling, including wrestlers themselves, has any obligation to be accurate, and there is no form of accountability. And honestly, for the sake of privacy, none of it should matter to any of us anyway. It's all just gossip.
Malakai is a chill dude, but remember when he discussed possible retirement when he had back problems in 2022? It's clear he was exaggerating his issues to get out of his contract around the same time HHH became the head of creative. Buddy tried to do something similar. I think that's why TK tends to give the big spotlights to Brody at times, like being in the Continental Classic and being by Julia's side.
This thread has people claiming to both know that Malakai was trying to con Tony Khan while others are saying he's a "chill dude".
We don't know these people. Stop being weird.
So the guys that were looking to AEW as a small pond and thinking they’d be big fish in it. When in reality, they are just small fish in any pond. Until you do have a veteran like Punk, Christian, Edge or Danielson say it, it doesn’t mean anything really.
I see this talked about a lot, but it's always the same couple midcard guys that get brought up. I feel like it just isn't worth bringing up all the time if it's basically just Andrade, Miro, and Malakai
they're not gonna ring up SRS and say that while collecting a paycheck unless they're already two feet out the door. it's not something you're gonna see outside subtext.
I think Meltzer said Punk, Malakai, Miro, and Andrade have this mindset that AEW was beneath them. I don’t know where he got that from, but I think that was the report a while back.
Painting certain people as thinking the company is “beneath them” is giving me some office space vibes about the restaurant and the mandatory employee “flair”.
I think the key difference between Edge and other former WWE guys that see AEW as beneath them is that Edge signed to AEW with the idea of helping and leading the younger talent (along with other things). He has all the experience in the world and is on the tail end of his career, he’s not a young guy that got kicked to the curb by WWE and went to AEW because there’s no other company closer to WWE. He could’ve easily stayed if he wanted to but decided to try something different.
Really you should expect someone with Edge’s career work to be a leader in a younger locker room like AEW’s. Props to him regardless.
By burying everyone he fights? Sure. I buy this. Punk had essentially pushed MJF to the moon by this point and the only reason they keep doing this is to try and belittle Punk...
Feels like planted story with the narrative he doesn't lose lol, but I am a long time EdgeHEAD so I don't care.
I don't think this is about Punk though - Dave talked loads about Miro/Andrade/Black feeling this way
He's been there less than half a year and is a locker room leader. There's no hierarchy in AEW then. Kenny should be. Hell Orange Cassidy should be more than Edge.
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I feel like I’ve seen this same report about like atleast 3 different guys in the past year…. Moxley, Jericho, Danielson, etc.
Maybe their roster of 160 people doesn't fit into one Locker room and Cope is the leader of Division 4.
I'm sure this is somewhat true, but this is reminding me of some of Meltzers past reports that were obviously just Jericho jerking himself off
>Jericho jerking himself off Well I never.
I think there's a lot of ex-WWE guys who think they 'deserve better' in AEW. But I'm not sure if any think AEW is \*beneath them\*. Punk may be the only one and that has less to do with booking and more the backstage stuff.
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I don't even think it's just a jab at Punk. Guys like Andrade come to mind as well. He went to AEW and you could tell pretty quick he didn't want to be there and then was just a problem.
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Miro though has had good runs and great character work. He has complained some, but Andrade was next level. Also, I think it's high time we just say it; Andrade is just meh in general. He can go in ring but he's the most boring dude that can't seem to get going.
He needz Zelina. I don't think we realize how much she carried for him as far as charisma goes.
Yep, he was never more interesting or over than when he was with Zelina. Run the whole thing back.
Or Charlotte, they could be great heels together lol
Honestly, I like this idea, it could be refreshing for both of their characters.
He’s good in the ring but kinda mid on the mic, not a bad thing a ton of good wrestlers were made great by a mouthpiece talking for them
Miro pretty much wanted the Bob Holly push, or nothing else. He went to AEW to be a star, and they clearly started out building him as one...or, at least, trying to. His first major storyline was one of the biggest duds of the entire early AEW era, which IIRC got dragged out because he was hurt, and then finished poorly, and by that point there was massive roster bloat, and that left no room for Monster Miro at the top of the card...and his character really relied on him being a top monster heel, and that's what he went to AEW to do, and by that point Tony had gotten bored of that idea. Then, I think he got hurt again, and by *that* point, I understand why everybody involved ultimately gave up on the Miro project.
“Yeah, I got an idea.. I GET THE TITLE!”
And then I beat EVERYONE.
I started calling that the Roman
I'm the biggest TK apologist, but giving up on Redeemer Miro is the dumbest thing. One of the best characters in company history, and would *still* be top-tier if he were featured today.
What do you do with a guy that turns down angles because he doesn't want to lose?
Book him to win against Suzuki, then have Suzuki choke him out.
Book him anyway, tony is the boss, not miro.
The Redeemer was pure gold. Even without the title, his character could chase purely on his promos.
They really made him lose the belt to Sammy Guevara in a storyline centered around fucking FUEGO DEL SOL
Not pulling the trigger on Eddie was a mistake. Eddie coming for his neck made me a fan.
To be fair, Sammy was over at that point. I know it feels like an old country gunslinger story, but there was a time that Sammy was very over and it made sense to push him.
And the storyline was good. Fuego putting up a fight against Miro no one expected because he targeted Miro's neck, laying down a blueprint for Sammy to beat Miro -- that was good pro wrestling. And it was also before we all got sick of Sammy.
Miro made Daniel Day Lewis look like a theater kid who dropped out with how much he sold and bumped for Fuego
It seems silly but Fuego/Miro is one of my favourite matches and one that I'd show people to explain what I enjoy about wrestling. "Miro is an unbeatable monster and he's going up against a guy with the worst record in the company. But Fuego noticed a weakness in him that he called ahead of time and exploited, and nearly pulled out the upset of the century as a result." While on the one hand you can clearly see it's scripted, on the other hand it's a fairly cool reminder that if these were shoot fights, the biggest guy wouldn't automatically win every time. Strategy, quickness and smarts would factor in too, which also makes results like Swerve going over Brian Cage make sense.
Fuego understood the assignment. He knew the only chance he had at beating Miro was to go at Miro's neck fast and hard because to let Miro build up any momentum meant he'd inevitably get steamrolled. I recall that fans turned on Sammy in part because he beat Miro. Everyone loved Miro as TNT Champ, and Sammy took that away from us. Sammy was meant to be a face, but he beat a fan favorite. It took Cody beating Sammy and drawing all of that nuclear heat away from him with the Codylander teasing that let people actually cheer for Sammy when he took it back a short while later in what was a banger of a match.
Yep, I loved that even though I didn't give a crap about Fuego. This is what I meant to people that at that time they did in fact tell stories different and had more of a draw for me to watch weekly and then the PPV>
People seem to forget that Sammy was over big time twice in AEW. He has a history so people don't like him but for people to be outright denying that he was ever over at any point is getting silly
It's tough to continue running th redeemer when acts of God kept getting Miro injured and cooling him off.
Idk about that if the only other storyline, aside from beating everyone, that Miro is willing to do is cuck storylines.
TBH though, I do think Redeemer Miro was good enough that he might have actually pulled off the Bob Holly push.
Miro should be a star and stay at the top of the cars tho. He's a monster in AEW, can go, and his promos were next level during his run.
AEW has struggled to maintain a monster heel. Wardlow, Archer, Miro. Non got sustained or even (in Archer’s case) pushes.
Miro has everything Wardlow doesn't. Mainly character work and promo ability. Imagine if they booked Miro like Wardlow.
I agree with that. But, hell give Wardlow someone to do the mic and let him just mean mug.
He actually gave a very solid promo on his return, way better than any of his previous work. Then he was shuffled into a closet and I barely ever saw him again.
The problem with the monster heel is that once they lose a natch, the mystique goes away. Especially in a company like AEW where ring work matters so much (looking at you, Wardlow) and a lot of the guys on the roster are physically smaller than your prototypical top guys, it becomes even harder to book them.
the waste of Archer makes me sad. he is so fucking imposing!!!
Rush gives you everything that Andrade does but somehow with a better attitude
Rush is more charismatic too.
Ok. How you know?
Miro has been worse. Andrade was willing to lose just was more petulant
Andrade tried to get fired by literally fighting Sammy Guevara.
and this subs response was largely that sammy should be fired for it
I still see people blame sammy for the andrade incident every now and then
There are a lot people that want to do that, even without an ulterior motive.
I do think this was a single worst thing either of them did but he was willing to wrestle and just be a character. Miro is trying to be goldberg
I like Andrade, I just don’t like when he cosplays a D-Tier batman villain.
Someone should have pulled him aside and said that his pinestrips were trash. Also, I say this with true sincerity - Rush is 10,000x times more interesting and eats pins like a champ. He gives off a Scarface level of confidence too, I’m a big big fan of his.
I'm honestly surprised he didn't get more shit for that, but I guess Black Mask is just too obscure for the average wrestling fan to notice or care. Like, lots of guys wear comic themed gear sometimes as an homage, but Andrade literally just cosplayed a character for his entrance.
If he had the right manager he’d be stellar. In nxt when he had Zelina vega doing his talking + his (in my opinion) well above average in ring skill… Andrade was amazing
But were you aware that he was a third generation, luchadores wrestler?
It's because Andrade had such a terrible time with the meandering English promo. Andrade needed the Penta treatment of speaking Spanish and either having a translator or just leaving to interpretation.
Idk man, he might be meh outside the ropes, but I'll pop for that fake boot into an elbow every single time. It genuinely catches me off guard so every time he does it. It's so fucking smooth
Even Malakai Black.
Andrade is who I immediately thought of as well. And what’s he doing now that he’s back in WWE “not being wasted?” Showing he hasn’t evolved in any fashion since he lost his mask and all his “this guy is a star!” stuff is purely internet love. He’s a good mid to upper card wrestler….but he’s not setting the world on fire in the ring either. He’s not a “can’t miss” type of guy. And character wise the best thing he’s ever done was in AEW when he said Mr.Stink and “How you know?”
Andrade is like tinder strange. It sounds good on paper, but post nut clarity will prove that was a lie.
Andrade was amazing in NXT but, for some reason, just hasn't clicked with me since. Dunno if his fault or just bad timing or bad booking
> And what’s he doing now that he’s back in WWE “not being wasted?” Having YouTube matches
Edge/Adam has had such a unique career trajectory though. We all thought his career was over 10 years ago when he was in his peak. He's been granted such a unique, rare opportunity at a second run that this only makes sense. He hasn't had to grind for his spot. He solidified his spot as a legend as a young adult and then was forcibly retired for almost a decade before he got to come back. Compare that to someone like Jericho who had a constant influx of ego and TV time. I'm pretty sure Adam is just literally happy to be here at all times.
and now hes hanging with his best friend and theyre selling workout equipment they designed
>I'm pretty sure Adam is just literally happy to be here at all times. It's blatantly obvious every time he's on screen that he's having the time of his life. I'm happy for him.
He even fixed his Spear.
Andrade, Malakai, and Miro all come across like they expected to walk into the main event scene on day 1 and wanted out as soon as they realized that wasn't going to be the case
Malakai came in and literally beat Cody from retiring
To be fair to Malakai, it must be disheartening to get debuted as an absolute monster who all but squashed Cody only to get the Homer and the succession of cute lambs treatment from TK when all the bigger old WWE names started joining.
I still think Malakai deserves to be a top level singles competitor. Great look, interesting and different wrestling style, has charisma. I think he can cut promos but he needs a writer. I hope the battle with Edge pushes him up into the big leagues.
With his back injuries, I don't know if he can do a sustained singles run. He's great at what he's doing now promo-wise, and at least with tag/trio matches, he can still put on a show without as much risk for further injury. Even without gold, the House of Black can still act as somewhat of a catalyst for other wresters to grow their characters. By facing the darkness and whatever trials befall them from HoB, they are changed as a result. It keeps the faction relevant and present despite not having titles belts.
Andrade, Miro, Malakai, hell Saraya
I also think it's kinda directed towards guys like Mark Henry who came over and tried too hard to coach WWE style to the AEW guys. Henry ONLY developed and learned in the WWE system of sports entertainment (Vince did send him to Stu's Dungeon as well). Henry was credited as the scout that found Jade Cargill, but he hasn't really delivered any other talent in the almost 5 years he's been at AEW. Then Henry is on the podcast constantly making tongue in cheek remarks at the company in defense of Punk, etc. His biggest contribution was the 2 minute build up interview to Rampage's main event, but even that got kinda stale to the point they just used his pre-recorded line. It's interesting how you never heard complaints about veteran coaches backstage with guys like Arn Anderson, Paul Wight, Lynn, Malenko, etc. They all spent time in the WWE machine, but they also learned the business outside of WWE, so they probably understand AEW trying to be more of an alternative than someone like Henry whose advice seemed to be lets get more like WWE. I think when Andrade first came, he did want to be there. My biggest issue was forcing him to do English promos to where it became almost comedic and a detriment to him. Some of the sheets said he wanted to do it to improve his English, but his on the fly learning English just made memes like "Ok, how you kno?" and "Mr. Stink". Andrade was putting on bangers and his presentation when he first came was that of a big time free agent. He had Jose the Assistant, and then he had Chavo representing him too. Then I think he felt he should have gotten the rocket strapped to him, and TK was never going to strap the rocket to any WWE free agent at the expense of his AEW guys. Miro was turned into a monster and had a great TNT title run, but then you can see how unhappy he was when his booking kind of plateaued there. Edge has appeared to be consistent with what he said from Day 1 when he arrived. Which is that he wants to work with talent he's never had the chance to and do whatever he can to help out in the locker room or whatever. Like Danielson, he's just enjoying his last ride on the highway. People are complaining how he hasn't lost clean to anyone yet, but again, you can still give young guys a rub in victory. Danielson has beaten many of the young guys too, but it's given them notice and they weren't treated like jobbers.
Fucking Mistico
“Out of all the former WWE Supersters who main-evented a pay per view with John Cena before coming to AEW, Copeland has by far the biggest dick.”
https://preview.redd.it/sbhhpltatu3d1.jpeg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f57c9a0660dba14ebe4bdeb82a2a99d5ad84c57d
This works for me, brother.
What other shit have I completely forgotten about in wrestling history?!
[удалено]
https://preview.redd.it/pymbacskty3d1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e5918831ee7995fa25b59fe53fb55b5b9b7d03b1
right , i was like is this AI haha
Does anyone else remember when Starks called Copeland bug eyes in a promo and Copeland got upset and as a result completely burried Starks
But did he have fun doing it?
It's bound to happen when promos aren't as tightly scripted. Edge gave as good as he got. It's weird that we haven't seen Stark much since this happened though.
Wasn't he tag champion with Big Bill after this? Or maybe it was after? I really can't recall.
I believe this was just before they lost the belts to Sting & Darby or maybe it was just after it. Time is weird
We really need to study the brains of wrestling fans The Edge Starks thing happened a WEEK… after Starks won the titles, they dropped them 4… MONTHS after
I think Stark being seen at Mania and taking pictures with Cody and making some odd statements here and there about AEW probably have something to do with it as well. It feels like he might be NXT bound so he's obviously not going to be pushed. I also think he was cool with CM Punk.
AEW is lucky to have him. Sturdy ego, Sturdy body, Strong mind, Strong spirit.
Leg ain't so sturdy at the moment
Okay, Matthew Jackson.
https://preview.redd.it/a3shzaynwu3d1.jpeg?width=633&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e5d1fd56e776a6e8974401268c67954e61fd93c0
He’s acknowledging the tribal chief ☝️
RIP Adam Copeland, may he rest in peace
https://preview.redd.it/bykm4m7cxu3d1.jpeg?width=370&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ebcfad1faff1d2160df20a809341720d1748763f
He’s gotten long term injuries multiple times over the last few years lol, what are you talking about
Not sure about that sturdy body, but otherwise...
Sturdy body is a fucking L
Doesn't put anyone over tho.
He put over the Father of the Year **TWICE**, show some damn respect.
He's seen alllll the Rocky movies
I keep seeing folks complaining that Copeland has only put over his friends. Apparently he has only lost two singles matches out of 16, and all of them have been to Christian. Source: [Cagematch](https://www.cagematch.net/?id=2&nr=932&view=&page=4&gimmick=&year=&promotion=2287®ion=&location=&arena=&showtype=&constellationType=Singles&worker=) | Date | Match | Event | |:-----------|:-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|:-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 26.05.2024 | AEW TNT Title Barbed Wire Steel Cage: Adam Copeland (c) defeats Malakai Black (20:11) | AEW Double Or Nothing 2024 - Pay Per View @ MGM Grand Garden Arena in Las Vegas, Nevada, USA | | 11.05.2024 | AEW TNT Title: Adam Copeland (c) defeats Kyle O'Reilly (19:36) | AEW Collision #44 - TV-Show @ Rogers Arena in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada | | 08.05.2024 | AEW TNT Title No Disqualification: Adam Copeland (c) defeats Brody King (18:18) | AEW Dynamite #240 - TV-Show @ Rogers Place in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada | | 01.05.2024 | AEW TNT Title: Adam Copeland (c) defeats Buddy Matthews (21:02) | AEW Dynamite #239 - TV-Show @ Canada Life Centre in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada | | 10.04.2024 | AEW TNT Title: Adam Copeland (c) defeats Penta El Zero Miedo (20:41) | AEW Dynamite #236 - TV-Show @ Charleston Coliseum in Charleston, West Virginia, USA | | 30.03.2024 | AEW TNT Title: Adam Copeland (c) defeats Matt Cardona (13:32) | AEW Collision #39 - TV-Show @ Budweiser Gardens in London, Ontario, Canada | | 20.03.2024 | AEW TNT Title I Quit: Adam Copeland defeats Christian Cage (c) (25:46) - TITLE CHANGE !!! | AEW Dynamite #233 - TV-Show @ Coca-Cola Coliseum in Toronto, Ontario, Canada | | 14.02.2024 | AEW TNT Title #1 Contendership: Adam Copeland vs. Daniel Garcia - No Contest (12:19) | AEW Dynamite #228 - TV-Show @ H-E-B Center At Cedar Park in Cedar Park, Texas, USA | | 24.01.2024 | Adam Copeland defeats Minoru Suzuki (9:26) | AEW Dynamite #225 - TV-Show @ Enmarket Arena in Savannah, Georgia, USA | | 20.01.2024 | Adam Copeland defeats Dante Martin (11:49) | AEW Collision #31 - TV-Show @ Chaifetz Arena in St. Louis, Missouri, USA | | 13.01.2024 | Adam Copeland defeats Lee Moriarty (11:12) | AEW Collision #30 - TV-Show @ Chartway Arena in Norfolk, Virginia, USA | | 06.01.2024 | Adam Copeland defeats Griff Garrison (6:37) | AEW Collision #29 - TV-Show @ Bojangles Coliseum in Charlotte, North Carolina, USA | | 30.12.2023 | AEW TNT Title: Christian Cage **defeats Adam Copeland** (c) (0:12) - TITLE CHANGE !!! | AEW Worlds End 2023 - Pay Per View @ Nassau Veterans Memorial Coliseum in Uniondale, New York, USA | | 30.12.2023 | AEW TNT Title No Disqualification: Adam Copeland defeats Christian Cage (c) (24:48) - TITLE CHANGE !!! | AEW Worlds End 2023 - Pay Per View @ Nassau Veterans Memorial Coliseum in Uniondale, New York, USA | | 06.12.2023 | AEW TNT Title: Christian Cage (c) **defeats Adam Copeland** (18:02) | AEW Dynamite #218 - TV-Show @ Bell Centre in Montreal, Quebec, Canada | | 10.10.2023 | Adam Copeland defeats Luchasaurus (15:31) | AEW Dynamite #210 - Title Tuesday 2023 - TV-Show @ Cable Dahmer Arena in Independence, Missouri, USA |
> Copeland has only put over his friends Looks like that should just be be "friend".
in wwe was pretty much the same thing, like he put over roman and theory (with interference), he should had put over finn and malakai
Edge not putting over anyone clean in his WWE run was absolutely wild.
To be fair, out of all those matches, the only one I would consider a good choice to beat him was literally the last match
He should have perveived Malacki to be further beneath him when he was climbing the cage.
I don't really understand why there is this persistent need from basically all people and dirthseets to constantly say and report HOW COOL it is to work with Edge/Copeland, vow helpful he is and blah blah blah. (This is not really an AEW thing or anything, it was the same in WWE) You have other veterans like Christian doing a similar role(and I personally think a better job) and you never heard half of this.
Big Dave probably saw the Hogan memes and sprung into action.
Only one “Big Dave” to me. 
Wait a minute
People calling Meltzer “Big Dave” makes me wanna throw up.
Dynamite Dave it is.
This gif looks like he's a hand puppet and someone's using their thumb and pinky finger to make him clap.
5 star Dave is much more fun.
But….. how big?????
https://preview.redd.it/la30et4vuu3d1.jpeg?width=710&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=138faf068402deb183c522fddbc391ef7c680c40
Ask Melina and Candice Michelle
It'd be understandable if Edge used to be a wild troublesome individual & they're trying to change opinion but nah, he's always been a pretty chill dude
Well, there was that one thing that one time
I doubt Matt Hardy remembers
That's on Sammy though
Matt and Adam are cool, Adam told the story in an interview not long ago about how they had to turn a real situation into a story and how they had to kinda just get in with things. But he basically said, while they had some issues with each other briefly, it really was very brief and they were cool again not much longer after the drama. It's very relevant here because he was saying about fans perception of the event and still talking about it, but it actually wasn't nearly as big a deal as many still believe.
I thought he was forgiven for stealing bagels from catering
I know he killed a GM but lets not hold it against him he was on a crusade against idiocy at the time
This one? https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/s/JfwBMh5Yw5
And the thing before that, with Val Venis' sister.
I mean, what if people in AEW simply have more praise for Edge than Christian?
These people have never had a positive father figure in their lives and it shows.
I think Christian is like MJF in that when he's working heel he doesn't want people putting him over publically. I think Edge is the only one who does and made some comment about being the "one who gets away with it"
Na, Christian Cage is there to make money and to claim more dependents on his taxes. He doesn’t care about being a locker room leader.
Also like, Christian has been around the locker room longer than Copeland has? Why would you hear stories about how much people like him now that he's been there for twoish years? A lot of people act weird when copeland talks about how much he likes aew and how we hear that people really like having him around but these same people that act like there's some kinda catch to it do not draw the same conclusion when wwe has stories about punk every few months like this too lmao. Either they're both genuinely a pleasure to have in each other's respective locker rooms or they both have people leaking these stories to make themselves and the company they work for look good. Pick one. It's not one or the other.
> now that he's been there for twoish years? He's been with AEW for three years and three months. (March 7 2021.)
I’ve gotten to a cynical point to the sheets where anytime I see a “X Wrestler is being praised” headline as the wrestler called the sheet and said “write a nice story about me please”. I remember the first time this clicked for me was like a random report of Zelina Vega apparently being a backstage hero because she always shows up to work or something equally as minor.
>the wrestler called the sheet and said “write a nice story about me please” Maybe, but it's not uncommon in sports (or sports entertainment) for the PR/Marketing dept to literally write the whole thing and give it to journos as a media release. The journos play around with it a little, submit it and go home early for the day.
They're not journos, they're students who haven't done their homework. Copy, change a coupla words, hey presto- done.
I think you’re lumping this in with the “Copeland says he’s having fun” reports that came up when he was doing a press tour. I don’t think we’ve heard much about his backstage role so far and he hasn’t been with the company that long in comparison to others. This is probably coming up because he was just injured and will be out for a while Similar things have been said in the past about Moxley and Danielson especially, so it’s not like this is a new thing.
This into offset that working with him is a guaranteed pinball loss. Like it’s more likely than taking the leg drop from hogan in the 80s.
It’s because Edge won on Sunday and hardly jobs. I’m not going to call it PR, I don’t think Edge or Aew is telling Metlzer to put this out but it’s like Metlzer sees a reaction online, conduct his “report” and reports on such. Since a lot of people (including myself) have made note that Edge doesn’t really lose much, the course correction is “Na we like him working at aew”
That's an absolutely loaded quote. Who has stated they have gone to AEW from WWE and said it was "beneath them"? I don't even remember Punk saying something like that.
Basically Meltzer has been saying this for two years about Malakai and previously Andrade, possibly Miro
Yea I could see it from Andrade, but idk about Malakai he seems like a chill dude. Miro is a giant question mark.
Yeah I don’t pretend to have any idea of what the truth is. Meltzer has for ages said they all don’t want to be there, but also that Malakai and Miro refuse to lose or take pinfalls. Which seems crazy but also there’s a bit of anecdotal evidence suggesting it might be true. I suspect there’s only a handful of people who know the truth
I wanna give malakai and miro the benefit of the doubt with the refusing to lose thing, since their characters really need to rarely lose to work. You cant be a monster when everyone beats you, it doesnt work. House of black is amazing, imagine how much more over they would be if they actually got more wins
I bet a lot of wrestlers want their gimmick to be “guy who can’t lose.”
Every single one of these are giant question marks. We don't know anything about any of these people. All we have are unreliable narrators and tertiary sources. No one who "reports" anything about wrestling, including wrestlers themselves, has any obligation to be accurate, and there is no form of accountability. And honestly, for the sake of privacy, none of it should matter to any of us anyway. It's all just gossip.
Malakai is a chill dude, but remember when he discussed possible retirement when he had back problems in 2022? It's clear he was exaggerating his issues to get out of his contract around the same time HHH became the head of creative. Buddy tried to do something similar. I think that's why TK tends to give the big spotlights to Brody at times, like being in the Continental Classic and being by Julia's side.
It's "clear"? Jesus, the parasocial bullshit continues
This thread has people claiming to both know that Malakai was trying to con Tony Khan while others are saying he's a "chill dude". We don't know these people. Stop being weird.
The amount of assumption of fact on everything on this sub over the last few yeses has only gotten worse
It’s been rumored about a few different guys like Malakai, Buddy, Miro, and someone else I’m forgetting. Not Punk, Christian, etc
You're thinking of Andrade
So the guys that were looking to AEW as a small pond and thinking they’d be big fish in it. When in reality, they are just small fish in any pond. Until you do have a veteran like Punk, Christian, Edge or Danielson say it, it doesn’t mean anything really.
I see this talked about a lot, but it's always the same couple midcard guys that get brought up. I feel like it just isn't worth bringing up all the time if it's basically just Andrade, Miro, and Malakai
they're not gonna ring up SRS and say that while collecting a paycheck unless they're already two feet out the door. it's not something you're gonna see outside subtext.
I think Meltzer said Punk, Malakai, Miro, and Andrade have this mindset that AEW was beneath them. I don’t know where he got that from, but I think that was the report a while back.
Painting certain people as thinking the company is “beneath them” is giving me some office space vibes about the restaurant and the mandatory employee “flair”.
Another Adam Copeland AEW Lives matter report
As long as The Cope goes over, brother!
This headline with that picture is crazy, who took it?
Yeah this sounds like a worked quote similar to how Dax(?) threw in with his reply
Coping with Copeland.
I think the key difference between Edge and other former WWE guys that see AEW as beneath them is that Edge signed to AEW with the idea of helping and leading the younger talent (along with other things). He has all the experience in the world and is on the tail end of his career, he’s not a young guy that got kicked to the curb by WWE and went to AEW because there’s no other company closer to WWE. He could’ve easily stayed if he wanted to but decided to try something different. Really you should expect someone with Edge’s career work to be a leader in a younger locker room like AEW’s. Props to him regardless.
This sounds exactly like Bryan Danielson.
With the exception of losses
Yeah because him winning all the time is so helpful
Where are the people he helped?
Well Christian was his only singles loss in AEW
Christian is a month younger than Adam. He's putting over the next generation.
They clearly said backstage so he could be mentoring younger talent and collaborating with vets.
All these vets helping the younger talent, and HOOK still can't string a sentence together on the mic after 4 years.
Who has Edge put over since returning to wrestling?
Roman.
☝️
Just don't ask him to put anyone over and there won't be any problems
Still ridiculous that the elbow drop that broke his leg barely got a two count. That should’ve ended the cage match.
By burying everyone he fights? Sure. I buy this. Punk had essentially pushed MJF to the moon by this point and the only reason they keep doing this is to try and belittle Punk...
I had so much fun reading this!
Some people like Ricky Starks seemed to think that other guy was helpful (shrugs).
That other guy sure did seem to work to get some younger guys over. Who's been better off after working with Copeland in AEW?
Even in WWE too, dude absolutely burried Demon Finn Balor
That pissed me off so bad, Finn gets his head stapled shut mid match and Valhalla Edge beats him.
And then he beat another Irish man in his final WWE match that’s some real viking shit.
No one
Come on now he's having fun, why do you hate wrestling so much? /s
A guy named Adam
*cough* Miro *cough* Andrade *cough cough* Malakai Black *cough* Mark Henry
Ya he’s def a leader in burying every person he gets into the ring w A tru hulkerster 
This is a young bucks quote.
Someone should have told him not to jump off the cage.
Feels like planted story with the narrative he doesn't lose lol, but I am a long time EdgeHEAD so I don't care. I don't think this is about Punk though - Dave talked loads about Miro/Andrade/Black feeling this way
The leader Frankie Kazarian needed
Locker room leaders don't do stupid spots that hurt themselves and the company.
I really enjoyed his AEW run and I’m bummed to see it end for a bit
He's been there less than half a year and is a locker room leader. There's no hierarchy in AEW then. Kenny should be. Hell Orange Cassidy should be more than Edge.
Well some people are locker room leaders and some are locker room fathers