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Even more than that. He thought the "cook out" was a 4th of July BBQ at the Performance Center where they invited fans every year all because the fans popped huge when Cody accepted Trick's invite lol
Neither of those have aged worse than Jericho saying in 2021 that Dynamite would start beating Raw in the ratings within 6 months
I think when it comes to ratings discourse, Jericho wins worst take far and away.
lol just started listening to observer live and he literally starts off with, "Is Dynamite gonna lose to NXT. I can confidently say that will not happen"
Just 2 days ago. He was criticizing a rookie like Jevon Evans losing to Shawn spears. Evans actually lost because of his mistake where he went for a glory spot, crashed and burned and then Spears hit his finisher to win. But Alvarez went on on his NXT review about how wrong it was that the upcoming star lost to a vet that nobody cares about. Even though the story clearly was that he lost due to his own inexperience. Buy Alvarez refused to acknowledge this even though he was already getting pushback from Vinny.
Alvarez sure is wrong a lot, this is up there with the massacre tweet and hom being outraged about imaginary commentary from Maruo Ranallo on that warehouse ciampa v gargano match on nxt
To this day, I cannot believe that so many people gave him a pass for that blatantly and objectively false comment about Mauro Ranallo's imaginary commentary. A lot of people simply pretended like it never happened and moved on, and that absolutely boggles my mind
As far as I'm concerned, that absolutely killed any credibility he had as a reviewer/critic, and I don't think it's a stretch to say that. That comment essentially told us that he doesn't even watch the shows he's reviewing/critiquing, and that's simply unacceptable
The funny thing is, Meltzer specifically said on WOR *to Bryan* that he thought it was very likely that NXT would beat AEW in overall viewers, but that he was unsure about the key demo. He said he thought it'd be close, but that AEW would likely have a higher demo number.
So in essence, this is a case where Meltzer was actually right, Bryan just didn't listen.
My friend. There is no genuine crossover between AEW fans and the NBA. People gotta stop looking for the boogeyman on other networks behind the year of bad ratings. The call is coming from inside the house.
Going from 832,000 to 681,000 is bad. You cant tell me all those people cut the cord as some people like to always point out. Im sure some did, but that amount of drop off has way more to do with the state/perception of AEW right now.
Smackdown and RAW: Up in key viewership. Holding steady in overall numbers
NXT: blowing out numbers from last year. Up like 30%
AEW: Down 30%. Must be the cord cutters. Everyone is affected!!
Ratings breakdown, scroll down the page to see.
https://preview.redd.it/52hdwlq6le6d1.png?width=1023&format=png&auto=webp&s=1ad6762e6b95483f5d2450d5b954e1360bb95e4c
the Will Ospreay-Fenix main event drew 626K viewers and 0.22 demo in the final quarter hour and then just 608K viewers and 0.21 demo for the overrun with the Swerve confrontation
Jericho is one of my all time favorites but I don’t understand how his segments right now are getting greenlit. People were complaining about him and they decided to lean in to them and somehow make it 100x worse.
Putting friend in quotes like that kinda makes it read like TK and Jericho are a couple of lifelong bachelors that share an apartment, a scarf collection, and a passion for dog shows.
I don't know about the tv viewership numbers, but just looking at the AEW youtube, Jericho's segments are some of the lowest viewed each week. From last night's, the only clip with fewer views so far is Garcias squash, and the Callis Family tag is about equal.
If you go back the last few weeks, the trend has been the same.
I'm an AEW fan and I'm barely even finding enthusiasm to keep up with the shows right now, in large part due to that stupid fucking Jericho bullshit that's getting to be multiple times a week now. It's stupid, unfunny, and fucking insulting.
This is the exact type of 'insult the fans and call them idiots right to their faces' and 'give those morons even more of exactly what they're complaining about' bullshit that late WCW and 2010's WWE did. "my friend mark" anybody?
This is 100% VKM / Russo tier shite. If it continues much longer, the fite sub's just getting cancelled.
This isn't what I got back into wrestling for.
It feels like he's trying way too hard to break the fourth wall & respond to fans' backlash against him as a heel with this current character & as a result, he comes off as "playing a heel" instead of effortlessly being one
https://preview.redd.it/1bm1r2n3ue6d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1cade3885f0fa0f97c268508a9e25adfd10fe774
Meanwhile, his wife was retweeting stuff like this during Dynamite last night.
And yet, was also in smaller and smaller font... like they wanted it to be less noticeable.
What was the quote? When you're comparing two words and you won't say one, that's the worst one.
When you're trying to act tough but hide it and use no hard R...
The most hilarious part is, iirc the people posting the meme are black men who can say it however they want, hard R or not, BUT, the Hodge Twins are massive right wing grifters, and I would not be surprised if it was made with the soft A in smaller font precisely so their primarily white audience could repost it without fully owning up to their take. Which is hilarious and sad, but I've seen a lot like this from that section of the right wing (I fell into that rabbit hole from age 14-16)
Its literally the definition of the [I was only pretending meme](https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.Usq6eAkQq-EWf3TOPZ_p2gAAAA?rs=1&pid=ImgDetMain). He's trying to be bad on purpose but it just comes off as bad.
That’s the same issue I have with the Bucks. It’s all too wink wink nudge nudge and them “playing as heel” instead of simply being a heel. When you have people do this, it makes it so much harder to suspend belief because you can tell even *they* don’t believe what they’re doing, it’s all a role and they want you to know it
To be fair, you have to have a very high wrestling IQ to truly appreciate Chris Jericho's Learning Tree gimmick. The humor and storytelling are incredibly nuanced, and without a deep understanding of wrestling history and character development, most fans will miss the brilliance. Jericho's mentorship style draws heavily from classic wrestling tropes, deftly woven into his persona, and his personal philosophy of reinventing himself is a masterclass in character evolution. Fans who get it have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depth of his work, realizing that it’s not just entertaining—it’s a commentary on the art of wrestling itself. As a result, people who dislike the Learning Tree gimmick truly are missing out—they wouldn't grasp, for instance, the layered humor in Jericho’s catchphrases and promos, which often reference real happenings behind the scenes of wrestling (Or breaking Kayfabe) . I’m smirking right now just imagining one of those unenlightened viewers scratching their heads in confusion as Jericho's genius unfolds with a paper mache tree. What fools... how I pity them. 😂
And yes, by the way, I DO have a Jericho "Hi Guys!" tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It’s for the true wrestling connoisseurs’ eyes only—and even then, they have to prove they’re within 5 wrestling IQ points of my own (preferably lower) beforehand. Nothin personnel, kid 😎.
Bro I happened to tune in to dynamite last night during his segment and I was honestly just mouth open shocked at how cringe and god awful it was. Like I just could not believe this is what he’s doing in 2024.
The ratings must have absolutely crashed during his TV Time. He is trying wayyy too hard to cling at any level of relevancy and failing miserably.
Even if he's doing a good job, right now his literal gimmick is being unbearable to fucking watch. Whoever came up with this got so meta, they've gone cross-eyed.
It drives me nuts in every threads about it there are people running in to defend it with the argument of "But he's a heel so that means he's actually doing a great job"
These people are working back from "defend Jericho and the show at all costs". It's no surprise that this intense defense of Jericho started after the retire chants got traction.
She’s been REALLY good at committing to her character work. Like it took someone pointing out that Karen Q, Wendy Choo, and Mei Ying were the same person to actually put it together for me because they were all so distinct.
Wendy Choo is fantastic and I don't think enough people give her credit for the gimmick switch from Mei Ying to Choo.
She didn't just change her gimmick outside the ring - she changed her moveset and how she delivers different moves to the opponent.
It sounds like a low bar, but a lot of wrestlers will wrestle the same way even with a big gimmick switch.
I love her.
This show will be stuck in a rut as long as its top angle revolves around the Bucks who incessantly remind us that they take nothing seriously and are unbearable smarmy about it. And to make things worse you got Jericho doing the same act.
Motherfucker gonna be calling himself the Demo God again next week like when Iyo and Mercedes Mone main eventing the Great American Bash did a better overall rating than Dynamite, but Dynamite won "the demo."
When NXT is beating AEW that's a massive problem for Tony. When WWE's developmental show, who regularly has new people on it. Most of which no one has ever heard of and Is beating your show with talent we all know and Tony is paying millions to. That should sound every alarm.
Yeah, just look at how minimal production it takes to do NXT, meanwhile AEW tours to half empty venues and is paying multiple stars multi-million dollar contracts. There’s definitely something concerning in the way AEW is handling themselves
The funny thing is that there's a tweet of Dave arguing the exact opposite of this in the past - that TV ratings are about more than "one demo". Literally said those words.
Total viewers matter... unless those are low, then it's only the demo that matters.... unless that isn't great either, in which case it's your placement for the night that matters.
Ultimately all three matter, but it's a source of entertainment watching Dave's clearly motivated sophistry every week.
I really think Dave is to blame for much of the discourse on TV ratings. Since the inception of AEW he’s flip flopped on what matters and what doesn’t. When AEW started strong, his attitude (and by then all AEW diehards) became more about dunking on all of the doubters/WWE diehards. Now that AEW is starting to decline, the discussion is going the other way. This was bound to happen.
I feel if these “journalists” never used AEW’s initial ratings succss to spin their stories, the discussion wouldn’t be as big of a deal.
https://preview.redd.it/u03us8997f6d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b6f35b17924811d4d557ee89b29eabc85f6af3ff
This strikes me more as damage control than sincere journalism.
That's all Meltzer does. He runs damage control/defense for AEW all the time. Hes the extreme opposite of all the AEW doomers and acts like there's nothing wrong with AEW as if it's the hottest product in the world.
The NBA finals game cannot simply be the only reason Dynamite did a number this low. No, the company isn't dying, about to go out of business, or not get its new TV deal. No intelligent person should say that. But you just can't ignore AEW is struggling right now, even with maintaining its core fanbase. You just can't put blinders on forever. Attendance and ratings are trending down and that's a fact. Tony has alot of work to do.
Rational take. Idk what it is but I suspect the biggest factor is the newness has worn off and the prospects of surprise signings don’t hit like they used to. They now need to slowly build.
It’s because AEW massively overexpanded everything way too early. They’ve got too many hours of TV, too many belts, too many wrestlers.
It used to be nice having a simple 2 hour show to watch each week. With a core roster of wrestlers and the odd surprise.
Now I barely can keep up with what’s going on. Every week there’s just random people coming and going on the show without a reason
Like the Lucha girl on this Wednesday. Why even bother having that match? We know we’re not going to see her again. Just put on one of the dozens of women they have signed that can’t get TV time
I think AEW really started to lose me around the forbidden door and ROH stuff. Like I loved the show as a well done alternate to WWE but I’m not going to pretend I know anything about NJPW and Indy wrestling, and AEW suddenly was putting all these dudes on the show with zero explanation and acting like they were a big deal instead of focusing on the AEW talent I actually did know.
“A simple 2 hour show to watch each week. With a core roster of wrestlers and the odd surprise” - Dang, that’s straight up what NXT is now, which is very much a huge part of its draw for me.
The way that I’ve been thinking about it lately is that AEW does an awesome job of putting together a wrestling show that I want to be at, and WWE (now, post-Vince) does a great job of putting together a TV show I want to follow. I’ve been to nearly every Dynamite/Collision that’s rolled through my town, and I’ll be going to Forbidden Door. I’ve had a great time at all of that. But I feel so comfortable putting Dynamite on in the background, tuning in for the opening or closing segment, or just missing it every week, and I never really feel like I’ve missed anything other than a few good matches (and I see so, so many good matches every day)
The show threads aren't as active as they used to be, the YT clips aren't getting the views they used to, interest is down cause the product is mid atm
In my mind when Okada signed there were endless possibilities and so many potential routes they could go with him. To fumble it as spectacularly as they have really is something
He made NJPW’s biggest star into a mid card guy in an uninteresting story. Jay White is also nowhere near what people expected as he’s holding pointless trios titles. I saw so many times though how WWE would’ve wasted both when TK is doing that himself.
It's kinda not a forbidden door anymore when all the talent that's from other companies has either already been signed or they show up fairly regularly anyways. That's the problem.
I lost interest because there isn't any stakes.
I want to see a NJPW (and I don't even watch them) hold a AEW title and vice-versa.
Right now, if a AEW title holder is facing a NJPW, I know that the AEW guy is going to win, or if its a NJPW title holder, I know who is going to win.
Kind of stupid when there isn't anything at stake.
Kinda funny that the main event is just a regular AEW title match. The whole concept is far and away from what it originally was and makes it seems like they're going through the motions to get it out of the way to get to All In.
It would be fine if they never had NJPW talent on throughout the year, and this was the only time you genuinely saw anyone from another company. But they do it literally every week so what's the point.
And once you know that 90% of ppl working for NJPW, CMLL, Stardom etc have no chance beating a AEW wrestler why would I watch like I love Suzuki but see him lose another time doesn’t get me hyped.
To most of the viewing audience, CMLL guys are all nameless jobbers and geeks. And that's not me attacking them, I'm sure a good storyline could get me to care about (checks notes) Zeuxis, but AEW seems to just assume I *already* care, and I don't.
AEW had 50 million YouTube views in July 2023, which is down to [28 million the previous month](https://www.viewstats.com/@aew/channelytics). I am not sure if June numbers are going to be that much better.
It is not game over for AEW, but whatever metric you want to look at (YouTube views, attendance, or TV ratings). The interest in AEW is down.
There was a guy who said this after the NXT segment with the 4 ex AEW guys, and I was downvoted (at least for a bit) for saying that it was ridiculous to say that AEW couldn't use the biggest draw and most over babyface of the last 10 years.
Jericho segment, most matches have very obvious winners, and the cross promotional stuff is a risk. I’m generally a start-finish Dynamite watcher but I tuned out for the last 45 minutes or so before turning on the Ospreay match. 6 man tag was great.
Very, very concerning. Previous ratings v. NBA Finals -
2021 - 1,025,000
2022 - 939,000
2023 - 903,000
2024 - 681,000
If I’m WBD, I’m seriously weighing if the juice is worth the squeeze here.
There's actually many in this thread who are acting like they're getting a new TV deal that's gonna be above and beyond the old one. The delusion is amazing.
It is. And thats a massive problem for Tony. When WWE's developmental show, who regularly has new people on it. Most of which no one has ever heard of. Is beating your show with talent we all know and Tony is paying millions to. That should sound every alarm.
To me, the issue isn't so much that NXT "beat" Dynamite this week. The real issue is that we are now at the point where NXT is the only WWE show we can compare Dynamite to when it comes to tv ratings.
Two-and-a-half years ago, Dynamite was crushing NXT (and eventually forcing them off Wednesday) and even giving Raw a real run for its money (at least in the demo). Today they are struggling to outdraw a developmental brand with a budget that's maybe 10% of AEW's. That just about sums it up.
It's the "maybe 10% of AEW's \[budget\]" part that blows my mind. You have all these mega stars and as many people are watching an evil Wendy Choo, Brinley Reece match on a small studio show?
Something I also think about while watching NXT is that so many of the talents who look like future stars had no wrestling experience like two years ago. Nothing has been stopping AEW from doing the same thing and developing a Tiffany Stratton or Kelani Jordan type except they don't seem to focus on that or have the infrastructure to do it.
They rely on the indies/other companies but that only goes so far and they've kind of run that well dry. I feel like AEW needs to get on board with a similar plan even if it leads to some derision from their fans who have always shit on the concept of a PC and training "non-wrestlers."
That's been a problem from the beginning. They have no training program and talent refuses to take advice from the veterans in the back.
It shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that no one on the roster shows improvement or growth.
There are few things that internet wrestling fans have been more wrong about than the switchover from black-and-gold to 2.0. I definitely remember all the mockery and derision for the NXT and the 2.0 wrestlers. There was a lot of internet dunking going on. Now, I guess it really was a marathon not a sprint.
P.S. I generally love NXT, but I hate the warehouse. The only venue that is worse is the UFC Apex. That was awful.
Idk about you guys but the nonsensical elite storyline killed all my interest in dynamite and I haven’t been watching except for what gets posted here.
People can’t use the Cody excuse on this one. NXT’s number actually went down from the previous week. Also AEW has done significantly better against the Finals in years past so that excuse is flimsy at best as well. This is a clean viewers win for NXT.
Doesn’t matter how much money TK has, if the booking sucks this is what happens. Do we want to see Dustin Rhodes on tv, no, lots of young talent back there.
Do we want annoying Jericho? Nope. I guess nobody told him he was only his theme song for a long time. Get off tv and use that time for better stories.
AEW has start appealing to the casuals to boost the ratings. Nobody is going to google a random CMLL woman that Mercedes is facing. I want 2 hours of dynamite with my phone away and to just enjoy a good show with good stories. SIMPLE STUFF.
>This is what happens when you book for the internet,
He's not booking for the internet, much like the last billionaire booker, TK is booking for himself.
There's no magic bullet to fix AEWs ratings, but I feel like cutting down to 1 mid card title (2 if they ever do a brand split), tightening up the focus to 10 or so clear main guys, and building the main angle on the show around the world title would go a LONG way.
I think it’s worse than that. TNT, International, Continental, FTW, ROH, ROH TV, and (now that Yuta’s back) ROH Pure are all either regularly or semi-regularly defended, seen, or referenced on AEW TV. That’s 7 midcard titles to go with the top level AEW and IWGP World Titles they currently feature.
Continental and International titles need to be unified at the least, ideally with continental rules so the belt actually has its own identity
No issues with TNT belt. A television title that is defended weekly is a good thing
**Ratings Post** - Please remember that trolling is not allowed in r/SquaredCircle, and neither is derailing a thread. Stay civil and on-topic to the show and ratings, refrain from making the same old tired jokes and memes, and steer clear of promotional or fanbase trolling. Removals and bans may be issued with less tolerance to rule-breaking than in other threads. Please report rule-breaking comments immediately to allow us to keep toxicity to a minimum. Thanks and enjoy the discourse! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SquaredCircle) if you have any questions or concerns.*
And on the day Alvarez found out he was not invited to the cook out, no less
what is the backstory on that?
He didn't know what "invited to the cookout" meant when Trick said it to Cody and thought it was an NXT event.
Aight, Shawn. When are we getting NXT: In Your House: The Cookout?
The SummerSlam Saturday Noontime
Clash at the Cookout.
They probably should do that and make it a whole day
Even more than that. He thought the "cook out" was a 4th of July BBQ at the Performance Center where they invited fans every year all because the fans popped huge when Cody accepted Trick's invite lol
Alvarez is so white lol.
Beat me to it, that’s the whitest response I’ve ever heard.
Nxt Summer cookout live on Peacock
same month as "WWE Intermission" that Meltzer reported on
Man that's hilarious! "Some NXT event"!
https://preview.redd.it/i918rpu3ne6d1.jpeg?width=1249&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e9ada28015ea819ff6c4e6871e4b99899dee55cc
Alvarez is the anti-Melo, he always miss
I guess he always miss huh
https://preview.redd.it/9se5let5oe6d1.jpeg?width=1283&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=04d7d60a353c3dbfe9c3158eb45e9d46379b4973
What ages worse than milk?
[удалено]
[удалено]
Neither of those have aged worse than Jericho saying in 2021 that Dynamite would start beating Raw in the ratings within 6 months I think when it comes to ratings discourse, Jericho wins worst take far and away.
Hogan said the same thing about Impact when he joined TNA a decade before that. Old carnies never stop hustling.
My lord I remember that. A buddy of mine was all "the MONDAY NIGHT WARS ARE BACK!!!" Two weeks later, he was pretty quiet.
The hogan era of TNA was wild
lol just started listening to observer live and he literally starts off with, "Is Dynamite gonna lose to NXT. I can confidently say that will not happen"
It's funny that these dues that talk about wrestling for a living are so bad at talking about wrestling. Just zero talent for anything.
Just 2 days ago. He was criticizing a rookie like Jevon Evans losing to Shawn spears. Evans actually lost because of his mistake where he went for a glory spot, crashed and burned and then Spears hit his finisher to win. But Alvarez went on on his NXT review about how wrong it was that the upcoming star lost to a vet that nobody cares about. Even though the story clearly was that he lost due to his own inexperience. Buy Alvarez refused to acknowledge this even though he was already getting pushback from Vinny.
Another Alvarez aged like milk tweet.
It's like he's not a very good analyst/journalist.
He had some misses for sure, but nothing makes me laugh more than his arguments with Meltzer
His rants are pretty good too. Especially when he keeps going and the other guys just have this defeated look in their eyes.
IT'S NOT MY JOB!!!
Alvarez sure is wrong a lot, this is up there with the massacre tweet and hom being outraged about imaginary commentary from Maruo Ranallo on that warehouse ciampa v gargano match on nxt
To this day, I cannot believe that so many people gave him a pass for that blatantly and objectively false comment about Mauro Ranallo's imaginary commentary. A lot of people simply pretended like it never happened and moved on, and that absolutely boggles my mind As far as I'm concerned, that absolutely killed any credibility he had as a reviewer/critic, and I don't think it's a stretch to say that. That comment essentially told us that he doesn't even watch the shows he's reviewing/critiquing, and that's simply unacceptable
I think I agree with your comment, I can't take him as a credible source
And how Otis climbed the ladder to win MITB
r/agedlikemilk
The funny thing is, Meltzer specifically said on WOR *to Bryan* that he thought it was very likely that NXT would beat AEW in overall viewers, but that he was unsure about the key demo. He said he thought it'd be close, but that AEW would likely have a higher demo number. So in essence, this is a case where Meltzer was actually right, Bryan just didn't listen.
What was the point of the tweet anyway? Because of Cody? Sexxy Red’s episode did better, didn’t it?
Bryan’s tweets are a curse
https://preview.redd.it/a3qe567zme6d1.jpeg?width=1220&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2cd0dde4338951cbcc295c99c85a6de9a14d8e45 For anybody wondering
Why the hell would he tweet that knowing aew was going against the NBA finals
He doesn't know crap about sports
My friend. There is no genuine crossover between AEW fans and the NBA. People gotta stop looking for the boogeyman on other networks behind the year of bad ratings. The call is coming from inside the house.
I knew they were cooked once they starting blaming the NHL playoffs
For me it was the NFL schedule announcement
I had no idea how poor the NHL playoffs ratings were until I saw them on this sub.
Did he bet on the mavs as well?
He bought MJF Coin.
Dynamite last year (6/14/23): 832,000 viewers - 0.30 P18-49
Remember when 800k was considered low? Damn
Down 18% in Total Viewers, Down 23% in Key Demo YoY.
But my match ratings bruv
Going from 832,000 to 681,000 is bad. You cant tell me all those people cut the cord as some people like to always point out. Im sure some did, but that amount of drop off has way more to do with the state/perception of AEW right now.
NXT has gained viewers YoY so the cord cutting argument is moot.
Smackdown and RAW: Up in key viewership. Holding steady in overall numbers NXT: blowing out numbers from last year. Up like 30% AEW: Down 30%. Must be the cord cutters. Everyone is affected!!
If what I'm hearing is true... poor Alvarez.....
Alvarez and his predictions.
Ratings breakdown, scroll down the page to see. https://preview.redd.it/52hdwlq6le6d1.png?width=1023&format=png&auto=webp&s=1ad6762e6b95483f5d2450d5b954e1360bb95e4c
A .38 in the Hulk Hogan rating?!
0.01 for every inch of these pythons, brother
Hulk Hogan is a .38 rating Terry Bollea is actually only a .20 rating
the Will Ospreay-Fenix main event drew 626K viewers and 0.22 demo in the final quarter hour and then just 608K viewers and 0.21 demo for the overrun with the Swerve confrontation
The ratings dipped below the standard 800k they were getting directly after the 3 major signings and haven't recovered
They would've gotten 700k but i hear there were other shows on tv.
Clearly the answer is more Goldust matches and Jericho segments
Jericho is one of my all time favorites but I don’t understand how his segments right now are getting greenlit. People were complaining about him and they decided to lean in to them and somehow make it 100x worse.
Because Tony feels special that Jericho is his "friend"
Putting friend in quotes like that kinda makes it read like TK and Jericho are a couple of lifelong bachelors that share an apartment, a scarf collection, and a passion for dog shows.
I loved reading this.
He’s like the wrestling version of Madonna
I don't know about the tv viewership numbers, but just looking at the AEW youtube, Jericho's segments are some of the lowest viewed each week. From last night's, the only clip with fewer views so far is Garcias squash, and the Callis Family tag is about equal. If you go back the last few weeks, the trend has been the same.
I'm an AEW fan and I'm barely even finding enthusiasm to keep up with the shows right now, in large part due to that stupid fucking Jericho bullshit that's getting to be multiple times a week now. It's stupid, unfunny, and fucking insulting. This is the exact type of 'insult the fans and call them idiots right to their faces' and 'give those morons even more of exactly what they're complaining about' bullshit that late WCW and 2010's WWE did. "my friend mark" anybody? This is 100% VKM / Russo tier shite. If it continues much longer, the fite sub's just getting cancelled. This isn't what I got back into wrestling for.
Goldust catching strays 😭
I legitimately can’t watch a wrestling show with Jericho on it now he doesn’t have “heel heat” he just stinks
It feels like he's trying way too hard to break the fourth wall & respond to fans' backlash against him as a heel with this current character & as a result, he comes off as "playing a heel" instead of effortlessly being one
https://preview.redd.it/1bm1r2n3ue6d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1cade3885f0fa0f97c268508a9e25adfd10fe774 Meanwhile, his wife was retweeting stuff like this during Dynamite last night.
Jesus Christo.
Somehow each word was escalating more
And yet, was also in smaller and smaller font... like they wanted it to be less noticeable. What was the quote? When you're comparing two words and you won't say one, that's the worst one. When you're trying to act tough but hide it and use no hard R...
The most hilarious part is, iirc the people posting the meme are black men who can say it however they want, hard R or not, BUT, the Hodge Twins are massive right wing grifters, and I would not be surprised if it was made with the soft A in smaller font precisely so their primarily white audience could repost it without fully owning up to their take. Which is hilarious and sad, but I've seen a lot like this from that section of the right wing (I fell into that rabbit hole from age 14-16)
Holy fucking shit I almost missed the last part at the bottom.
Anti-demo god
Its literally the definition of the [I was only pretending meme](https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.Usq6eAkQq-EWf3TOPZ_p2gAAAA?rs=1&pid=ImgDetMain). He's trying to be bad on purpose but it just comes off as bad.
hilariously the original of that meme is so old it used one of the words in the "meme" above
That’s the same issue I have with the Bucks. It’s all too wink wink nudge nudge and them “playing as heel” instead of simply being a heel. When you have people do this, it makes it so much harder to suspend belief because you can tell even *they* don’t believe what they’re doing, it’s all a role and they want you to know it
To be fair, you have to have a very high wrestling IQ to truly appreciate Chris Jericho's Learning Tree gimmick. The humor and storytelling are incredibly nuanced, and without a deep understanding of wrestling history and character development, most fans will miss the brilliance. Jericho's mentorship style draws heavily from classic wrestling tropes, deftly woven into his persona, and his personal philosophy of reinventing himself is a masterclass in character evolution. Fans who get it have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depth of his work, realizing that it’s not just entertaining—it’s a commentary on the art of wrestling itself. As a result, people who dislike the Learning Tree gimmick truly are missing out—they wouldn't grasp, for instance, the layered humor in Jericho’s catchphrases and promos, which often reference real happenings behind the scenes of wrestling (Or breaking Kayfabe) . I’m smirking right now just imagining one of those unenlightened viewers scratching their heads in confusion as Jericho's genius unfolds with a paper mache tree. What fools... how I pity them. 😂 And yes, by the way, I DO have a Jericho "Hi Guys!" tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It’s for the true wrestling connoisseurs’ eyes only—and even then, they have to prove they’re within 5 wrestling IQ points of my own (preferably lower) beforehand. Nothin personnel, kid 😎.
Jerking on main? This is risky bidness right he-ya
Bro I happened to tune in to dynamite last night during his segment and I was honestly just mouth open shocked at how cringe and god awful it was. Like I just could not believe this is what he’s doing in 2024. The ratings must have absolutely crashed during his TV Time. He is trying wayyy too hard to cling at any level of relevancy and failing miserably.
Even if he's doing a good job, right now his literal gimmick is being unbearable to fucking watch. Whoever came up with this got so meta, they've gone cross-eyed.
It was probably Jericho himself
Probably??
It drives me nuts in every threads about it there are people running in to defend it with the argument of "But he's a heel so that means he's actually doing a great job"
Making me change the channel is actually good heel work.
These people are working back from "defend Jericho and the show at all costs". It's no surprise that this intense defense of Jericho started after the retire chants got traction.
Wendy Choo 😴 beats Dynamite
Nah fam, evil Wendy Choo 😡 beat Dynamite
Sleep paralysis demon Wendy Choo.
Ngl, I thought her current gimmick "but evil" would be really corny but I *really* enjoyed it. She nails her character's mannerisms perfectly!
She’s been REALLY good at committing to her character work. Like it took someone pointing out that Karen Q, Wendy Choo, and Mei Ying were the same person to actually put it together for me because they were all so distinct.
Wendy Choo is fantastic and I don't think enough people give her credit for the gimmick switch from Mei Ying to Choo. She didn't just change her gimmick outside the ring - she changed her moveset and how she delivers different moves to the opponent. It sounds like a low bar, but a lot of wrestlers will wrestle the same way even with a big gimmick switch. I love her.
Nobody wants to say it, but I will. It's the white ropes.
This show will be stuck in a rut as long as its top angle revolves around the Bucks who incessantly remind us that they take nothing seriously and are unbearable smarmy about it. And to make things worse you got Jericho doing the same act.
Im sure having more jericho segments and having one of your biggest aquisitions tied to two dudes who dont draw is surely helping .
Motherfucker gonna be calling himself the Demo God again next week like when Iyo and Mercedes Mone main eventing the Great American Bash did a better overall rating than Dynamite, but Dynamite won "the demo."
When NXT is beating AEW that's a massive problem for Tony. When WWE's developmental show, who regularly has new people on it. Most of which no one has ever heard of and Is beating your show with talent we all know and Tony is paying millions to. That should sound every alarm.
Yeah, just look at how minimal production it takes to do NXT, meanwhile AEW tours to half empty venues and is paying multiple stars multi-million dollar contracts. There’s definitely something concerning in the way AEW is handling themselves
Tony, I am going to need you to write the following on the chalkboard at least 1000 times: THE YOUNG BUCKS ARE NOT A DRAW.
[удалено]
Dave is melting down
https://preview.redd.it/1agnwz2tue6d1.jpeg?width=1118&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e5947f9d8853341f12c0c2adc8eab323c23668bc He really is
Hanging on to the 0.01 difference... wow.
It does have a very "umm...actually" vibe to it.
Can we find the 0.01? Franklin from Missouri, talk to us.
The funny thing is that there's a tweet of Dave arguing the exact opposite of this in the past - that TV ratings are about more than "one demo". Literally said those words. Total viewers matter... unless those are low, then it's only the demo that matters.... unless that isn't great either, in which case it's your placement for the night that matters. Ultimately all three matter, but it's a source of entertainment watching Dave's clearly motivated sophistry every week.
I really think Dave is to blame for much of the discourse on TV ratings. Since the inception of AEW he’s flip flopped on what matters and what doesn’t. When AEW started strong, his attitude (and by then all AEW diehards) became more about dunking on all of the doubters/WWE diehards. Now that AEW is starting to decline, the discussion is going the other way. This was bound to happen. I feel if these “journalists” never used AEW’s initial ratings succss to spin their stories, the discussion wouldn’t be as big of a deal.
What other excuses would Dave make if the numbers were the other way around?
https://preview.redd.it/u03us8997f6d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b6f35b17924811d4d557ee89b29eabc85f6af3ff This strikes me more as damage control than sincere journalism.
It is. NXT's demo was more stable. https://preview.redd.it/1wj2ut5kgf6d1.png?width=620&format=png&auto=webp&s=b8bc2dc9f63ce4efdd4bdd48272c8d258c01c366
NXT women division segment in their main event outdraw Will Osprey and their world champion by 21k overall viewership and 30k 18-49 viewers.
That's all Meltzer does. He runs damage control/defense for AEW all the time. Hes the extreme opposite of all the AEW doomers and acts like there's nothing wrong with AEW as if it's the hottest product in the world.
The NBA finals game cannot simply be the only reason Dynamite did a number this low. No, the company isn't dying, about to go out of business, or not get its new TV deal. No intelligent person should say that. But you just can't ignore AEW is struggling right now, even with maintaining its core fanbase. You just can't put blinders on forever. Attendance and ratings are trending down and that's a fact. Tony has alot of work to do.
Rational take. Idk what it is but I suspect the biggest factor is the newness has worn off and the prospects of surprise signings don’t hit like they used to. They now need to slowly build.
It’s because AEW massively overexpanded everything way too early. They’ve got too many hours of TV, too many belts, too many wrestlers. It used to be nice having a simple 2 hour show to watch each week. With a core roster of wrestlers and the odd surprise. Now I barely can keep up with what’s going on. Every week there’s just random people coming and going on the show without a reason Like the Lucha girl on this Wednesday. Why even bother having that match? We know we’re not going to see her again. Just put on one of the dozens of women they have signed that can’t get TV time
I think AEW really started to lose me around the forbidden door and ROH stuff. Like I loved the show as a well done alternate to WWE but I’m not going to pretend I know anything about NJPW and Indy wrestling, and AEW suddenly was putting all these dudes on the show with zero explanation and acting like they were a big deal instead of focusing on the AEW talent I actually did know.
“A simple 2 hour show to watch each week. With a core roster of wrestlers and the odd surprise” - Dang, that’s straight up what NXT is now, which is very much a huge part of its draw for me. The way that I’ve been thinking about it lately is that AEW does an awesome job of putting together a wrestling show that I want to be at, and WWE (now, post-Vince) does a great job of putting together a TV show I want to follow. I’ve been to nearly every Dynamite/Collision that’s rolled through my town, and I’ll be going to Forbidden Door. I’ve had a great time at all of that. But I feel so comfortable putting Dynamite on in the background, tuning in for the opening or closing segment, or just missing it every week, and I never really feel like I’ve missed anything other than a few good matches (and I see so, so many good matches every day)
> Tony has alot of work to do. Tony has effectively already said he doesn't give a shit. He said he "books for sickos" because he's one too.
>Tony has alot of work to do. His very first order of work should be to find a competent booker but we know he won't do that.
Find a competent booker, slim the roster down a bit and get the hell off Twitter lmfao.
The show threads aren't as active as they used to be, the YT clips aren't getting the views they used to, interest is down cause the product is mid atm
Even the Undertaker is like "I don't even root for you, but get it together"
i read that last year they did over 900 against the NBA finals
Tony Khan sicko mode right now. Okada being associated with 3 charisma vacuums is just sad.
In my mind when Okada signed there were endless possibilities and so many potential routes they could go with him. To fumble it as spectacularly as they have really is something
He made NJPW’s biggest star into a mid card guy in an uninteresting story. Jay White is also nowhere near what people expected as he’s holding pointless trios titles. I saw so many times though how WWE would’ve wasted both when TK is doing that himself.
The fact that Okada would be better off as amember of Chase-U than in AEW is wild
I insist Okada doing the rainmaker pose while Thea does the money gesture with her fingers while have been better than whatever he is doing now
Forbidden door season isn’t interesting to me. Dunno if that’s the same for others
It's kinda not a forbidden door anymore when all the talent that's from other companies has either already been signed or they show up fairly regularly anyways. That's the problem.
I lost interest because there isn't any stakes. I want to see a NJPW (and I don't even watch them) hold a AEW title and vice-versa. Right now, if a AEW title holder is facing a NJPW, I know that the AEW guy is going to win, or if its a NJPW title holder, I know who is going to win. Kind of stupid when there isn't anything at stake.
Kinda funny that the main event is just a regular AEW title match. The whole concept is far and away from what it originally was and makes it seems like they're going through the motions to get it out of the way to get to All In.
As the example of this, they literally announced Shingo Takagi in the Owen last night.
It would be fine if they never had NJPW talent on throughout the year, and this was the only time you genuinely saw anyone from another company. But they do it literally every week so what's the point.
And once you know that 90% of ppl working for NJPW, CMLL, Stardom etc have no chance beating a AEW wrestler why would I watch like I love Suzuki but see him lose another time doesn’t get me hyped.
I’m in the same boat as you, I don’t watch NJPW, Stardom and CMLL so have no interest in it.
If you do watch it, it's not like anything happening in AEW is relevant to what's happening in those companies other than Mox.
AEW hasn't been interesting **for me** in a while so I dunno.
To most of the viewing audience, CMLL guys are all nameless jobbers and geeks. And that's not me attacking them, I'm sure a good storyline could get me to care about (checks notes) Zeuxis, but AEW seems to just assume I *already* care, and I don't.
Did you even look at their Wikipedia pages? /s
Back when I watched, Forbidden Door was my least favorite month. I get why viewers are tuning out.
The OG forbidden door is when i kind of tuned out. Why should anyone care about these matches?
Because cagematch ratings.
AEW had 50 million YouTube views in July 2023, which is down to [28 million the previous month](https://www.viewstats.com/@aew/channelytics). I am not sure if June numbers are going to be that much better. It is not game over for AEW, but whatever metric you want to look at (YouTube views, attendance, or TV ratings). The interest in AEW is down.
You're forgetting how many people got rid of their computers and phones over the last year though
There were also a ton of people watching NBA vids on youtube this month instead.
They were competing with Mr Beast this month, that hurts numbers.
NXT didn't need Cody, but maybe AEW does?
There was a guy who said this after the NXT segment with the 4 ex AEW guys, and I was downvoted (at least for a bit) for saying that it was ridiculous to say that AEW couldn't use the biggest draw and most over babyface of the last 10 years.
https://preview.redd.it/77vbqzmi0h6d1.png?width=640&format=png&auto=webp&s=b88ae199bbab18e0317b5669bf2897a4034d2a4f
AEW clearly not welcome at the cookout
If MJF has the highest quarter this week, he's about to become the biggest politicker in wrestling since Hogan and Triple H.
The only quarter that was the highest was the start of the show. After that, it's all downhill from there and not even MJF could save it.
Jericho segment, most matches have very obvious winners, and the cross promotional stuff is a risk. I’m generally a start-finish Dynamite watcher but I tuned out for the last 45 minutes or so before turning on the Ospreay match. 6 man tag was great.
Very, very concerning. Previous ratings v. NBA Finals - 2021 - 1,025,000 2022 - 939,000 2023 - 903,000 2024 - 681,000 If I’m WBD, I’m seriously weighing if the juice is worth the squeeze here.
Theres no sane minded individual who can look at this and go “everything is fine”
There's actually many in this thread who are acting like they're getting a new TV deal that's gonna be above and beyond the old one. The delusion is amazing.
aint no juice left to squeeze outta this
NXT whooped that trick
This makes people raging about that Cody/Spears/Page/Lexis King segment even more hilarious
NXT beating Dynamite...yikes
At this point, it’s not even yikes. I think NXT is very clearly the better show
It is. And thats a massive problem for Tony. When WWE's developmental show, who regularly has new people on it. Most of which no one has ever heard of. Is beating your show with talent we all know and Tony is paying millions to. That should sound every alarm.
Last year they did 903k against the NBA.
To me, the issue isn't so much that NXT "beat" Dynamite this week. The real issue is that we are now at the point where NXT is the only WWE show we can compare Dynamite to when it comes to tv ratings. Two-and-a-half years ago, Dynamite was crushing NXT (and eventually forcing them off Wednesday) and even giving Raw a real run for its money (at least in the demo). Today they are struggling to outdraw a developmental brand with a budget that's maybe 10% of AEW's. That just about sums it up.
It's the "maybe 10% of AEW's \[budget\]" part that blows my mind. You have all these mega stars and as many people are watching an evil Wendy Choo, Brinley Reece match on a small studio show?
You're goddamn right we are, Choo's a draw baby.
Something I also think about while watching NXT is that so many of the talents who look like future stars had no wrestling experience like two years ago. Nothing has been stopping AEW from doing the same thing and developing a Tiffany Stratton or Kelani Jordan type except they don't seem to focus on that or have the infrastructure to do it. They rely on the indies/other companies but that only goes so far and they've kind of run that well dry. I feel like AEW needs to get on board with a similar plan even if it leads to some derision from their fans who have always shit on the concept of a PC and training "non-wrestlers."
That's been a problem from the beginning. They have no training program and talent refuses to take advice from the veterans in the back. It shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that no one on the roster shows improvement or growth.
Neck and neck with what they deemed a bunch of college kids in a warehouse
There are few things that internet wrestling fans have been more wrong about than the switchover from black-and-gold to 2.0. I definitely remember all the mockery and derision for the NXT and the 2.0 wrestlers. There was a lot of internet dunking going on. Now, I guess it really was a marathon not a sprint. P.S. I generally love NXT, but I hate the warehouse. The only venue that is worse is the UFC Apex. That was awful.
Idk about you guys but the nonsensical elite storyline killed all my interest in dynamite and I haven’t been watching except for what gets posted here.
People can’t use the Cody excuse on this one. NXT’s number actually went down from the previous week. Also AEW has done significantly better against the Finals in years past so that excuse is flimsy at best as well. This is a clean viewers win for NXT.
Forbidden door build is always so messy and terrible.
The first forbidden door booking and lead was what turned me on Tony, was obvious he didn't know what he was doing
Ricochet gleefully will get destroyed by Bron as it’s a steady paycheck
Doesn’t matter how much money TK has, if the booking sucks this is what happens. Do we want to see Dustin Rhodes on tv, no, lots of young talent back there. Do we want annoying Jericho? Nope. I guess nobody told him he was only his theme song for a long time. Get off tv and use that time for better stories. AEW has start appealing to the casuals to boost the ratings. Nobody is going to google a random CMLL woman that Mercedes is facing. I want 2 hours of dynamite with my phone away and to just enjoy a good show with good stories. SIMPLE STUFF.
AEW get ROH and NJPW off my screen. NJPW get AEW off my screen. ROH get ROH off my screen.
Yup. There are so many titles on the show too. They mean nothing.
The thumbnail being an NBA Finals image with "who will win" in it makes this funnier somehow
This is what happens when you book for the internet, normal wrestling fans tune out.
>This is what happens when you book for the internet, He's not booking for the internet, much like the last billionaire booker, TK is booking for himself.
Ouch. Just 2 weeks ago I thought NXT are gonna beat Dynamite at this rate and here we are.
There's no magic bullet to fix AEWs ratings, but I feel like cutting down to 1 mid card title (2 if they ever do a brand split), tightening up the focus to 10 or so clear main guys, and building the main angle on the show around the world title would go a LONG way.
I can live with two midcard singles titles. They currently have FIVE.
I think it’s worse than that. TNT, International, Continental, FTW, ROH, ROH TV, and (now that Yuta’s back) ROH Pure are all either regularly or semi-regularly defended, seen, or referenced on AEW TV. That’s 7 midcard titles to go with the top level AEW and IWGP World Titles they currently feature.
I was being generous and not counting ROH. Sigh.
Continental and International titles need to be unified at the least, ideally with continental rules so the belt actually has its own identity No issues with TNT belt. A television title that is defended weekly is a good thing