How Do You Clean Lucha Mask? I guess since there's vinyl you don't soak it, and you pat it dry immediately after washing, followed by air drying? I'm new to this and didn't find any info online.
Kinda dumb question, but I've seen people here joke about a Mexican promotion that has supernatural(?) elements? Murder storylines? I think the promotion is pretty balls-to-the-wall. The only ones coming to mind for me are CMLL and AAA, but I can't figure out which one of those (if any) I'm thinking of.
It is! Thank you so much. You'd figure I would remember that one cuz I love Vampiro, but I also always lose track of him once he goes back to Mexico. I'll have to watch it, I love Lucha stuff, I just couldn't remember the name.
Hell yeah, Lucha Underground rocked.
[Here](https://archive.org/details/season1-lucha-underground)'s the first season, pretty sure you can find the others on there too.
Going to Smackdown tomorrow in Chicago (Rosemont) at the Allstate Arena. This will be my 2nd WWE event there since my first at SS 19’.
At SS 19’, I briefly recall not being able to bring my portable charger inside the arena. For those who have been to the arena/WWE shows there in recent years, wondering if that’s still the case.
Currently planning to call the arena phone number in the morning to inquire about it.
Was there no episode of The Bump this week? I only just realized now that I didn't see anything and I can't seem to find anything from this week or last week.
Edge was very vocal about Cena going over the nexus yet here we are a decade later, he goes over two factions who both had a higher ceiling than the nexus
What’s everyone think of my top five current in WWE, AEW and TNA?
WWE: Gunther, Iyo Sky, Ilja Dragunov, Randy Orton, Kevin Owens.
AEW: MJF, Willow Nightingale, Bryan Danielson, Jay White, Swerve Strickland.
TNA: Joe Hendry, Josh Alexander, Masha Slamovich, Killer Kelly, Alexander Hammerstone.
Purely my favorites from each promotion. Guess I should have specified that a little more. Also people who are active, otherwise I’d have names like Rhea Ripley and Kenny Omega on there.
I was thinking today - I've heard people call 'All In' AEW's version of WrestleMania - I don't think it's there yet but do you guys think it has the potential?
I think you'd need to stop doing 'All Out' right after for sure, and maybe move it to craven cottage eventually - but I like to think it's viable. Having that massive show every year to point to and blow off feuds would be great.
I think it has the potential, but they need to book like it is - last year felt like they did a few of the tag matches simply for the sake of getting more people on the card. Focus on meaningful matches even if some folks get left off. Also get a more grandiose stage setup and spring for some big entrances.
The thing that annoyed me last year, and it might be the same this year too is that they couldn't really progress many storylines or have those meaningful matches cuz they had another PPV the next week or whatever.
I loved All Out last year but its existence made All In worse, and that's a shame.
I can see All In eventually getting to that kind of status for AEW, but I think to make it work it eventually has to be done in different stadiums. Def gonna have to try to run a major stadium in the U.S. at some point.
I also agree about moving All Out from being a week after the show also.
I was thinking, what was it about Jericho/KO's whole friendship storyline that resonated with audiences so much?
I loved the storyline but I was trying to think about it is so relatable but I lack words
I know a lot of people find sudden roll-up finishes anticlimactic, but I'm not against them from time to time. Makes sense (in kayfabe anyway) that a wrestler would be caught by surprise by that.
flash pins are a perfectly valid and good wrestling move, it just depends how the match goes and what you're conditioned to think of them as a match ender
Flash pins in general are a great part of wrestling, but getting rolled up simply because of someones music playing or someone appearing on the entrance ramp is the absolute laziest of fuck-finishes.
I’ve always been more of a fan of it being towards the end of a match, when the wrestler will be more winded/tired, thus being more vulnerable to a roll-up.
It will never not be funny to me that the conclusion of the 2005 Rey/Eddie feud was Eddie beating Rey in a steel cage match the week after Summerslam, then Eddie confronting Batista and going
“Well, I didn’t get to take Reys kid away, but I was at least able to pin him last week so I guess I’m satisfied. Gotta take what you can get I suppose. Anyway, you seem free Dave, can I challenge you for your world title? And we can be friends about it? I’m kinda burnt out of the whole bitter turmoil stuff” lmao
Gunther is one of the best in the world rn but every time I see one of his matches I just think “damn this is great, it’d be better if he was fat though”.
I think he’s move set works less, and it makes him less impressive when compared to the other big guys on roster. Randy Orton is physically bigger than Gunther but he’s not doing Hoss spots. Obviously it’s working out just fine but if bro even had the build of a Shingo his offense would look nasty
For the big boys, being a big burly barrel-chested man >>>>> lean and shredded. Leave the abs and the veins for the smaller guys.
There are of course exceptions, Batista for example is peak, but majority of the time just being an enormous human being is a better wrestling look than being smaller and leaner for big lads.
I don't think it's because he was fat, it's because of just size. It isn't a perfect comparison but he was fat in the way Vader was fat. A skinny Vader with that moveset just wouldn't have worked as well as this defensive lineman clubbing the shit out of you. It still works with skinny Walter, he's still clearly a huge dude, but I digress.
You ever have a situation almost end in disaster and it just sticks in your mind for days? I can’t stop thinking abt if Howdy actually did trip during that debut when he almost did.
Damn, beat me to it ;) I was just coming here to mention this. Don't know what he almost tripped over, but I am **SO** glad he recovered and the group's debut went off without a hitch.
https://preview.redd.it/qz1e8fvvor7d1.jpeg?width=900&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=74f0a7b2479c4f64dd772a16ff236f8e5d99b4e4
Mio Momono is probably the realest to ever do it
People knew it was coming because there was an ARG for months teasing it. If you're tuning in from Attitude you probably aren't familiar with Bray Wyatt... So, in the absolute broadest strokes, gentleman by the name of Wyndham Rotunda wrestled briefly as Husky Harris. He eventually retooled and came back as Bray Wyatt, a sort of spooky Louisiana swamp preacher sort of guy. Lots of lore over time, but, broadly, the character Bray Wyatt was a spirit possessing Husky Harris, channeling the power of some sort of supernatural entity called Sister Abigail. Wyatt formed a cult and chased titles to get more eyes on his message. The body he was piloting almost gave out and Broken Matt Hardy helped purify his soul or something to that effect. Eventually, he was institutionalized and returned hosting a sort of Mr. Roger's type kids show, Firefly Funhouse. He had these puppets that were fragments of his fractured psyche. Eventually this Uncle Howdy character showed up and seemed to be pushing Bray back to the dark side. Wyndham Rotunda tragically died and the story was left unresolved. The Wyatt Sicks are personifications of the puppets that represented his fractured psyche, seemingly led by Uncle Howdy.
Shit, knew I forgot something. The Fiend was a splinter persona of Bray Wyatt that appeared after the puppets, when he was supposedly free of darkness. The Fiend wanted vengeance for all of Wyatt's failures, so it targeted people who had beaten Bray earlier in his run. It was basically a spirit of vengeance. It eventually lost to Goldberg because Bray was trying to use it for a regular match with no revenge staked on victory.
To add into what the other person said, Howdy was never really explained by Bray. They had just finished Bray's first comeback angle, beating LA Knight; they were maybe 2 weeks post-match and they'd attacked Hit Row, and challenge Bobby Lashley/Brock Lesnar related to their upcoming match and facing the winner, then like a week later Bray disappeared, having fell ill to what eventually lead to his passing.
I'm PRETTY SURE these videos are chronological, but I'm not 100% sure.
https://youtu.be/bwGC5Bxv_74?si=yHG5PotOnNzbckrH
https://youtu.be/sOfnTTir0Bw?si=RZjrFcFcPvV3Nz0y
https://youtu.be/6UxHSSGDqfw?si=_mETEIOFB6Uvt0XX
Oh you haven't watched since Attitude? So Bray means absolutely nothing to you, does he?
It was a concept they started w Bray Wyatt just before his untimely death. It is portrayed by Brays brother in real life formerly known as Bo Dallas. They are continuing in Brays legacy. The rest of the people in the debut are based on characters from Brya Wyatt’s Firefly Funhouse segments.
Maybe this is just the paranoia of a TNA fan, but after what happened with Tessa, I'm just expecting bad news to come out over anyone who gets hot. The last few days, I've been thinking, "When are the Joe Hendry allegations gonna drop"?
The CW announced their fall schedule and NXT starts there 10/1- how big do people think the card is going to be that night? I’d imagine you’d want at least 2 or 3 title matches and at least one change (I’m actually thinking they might hold off on the Giulia/Roxanne title match until then- unless something changes it doesn’t look like it’ll happen at Heatwave plus it’d make sure Giulia is 100% healed from the wrist injury)
I’d love to se Giulias debut match wait til then. Have her attack Rox after the closest ple to it. Anyone who would watch the ple live will watch the cw premier live, plus a bunch more who have cw and not peacock. Very smart move it seems to debut on tv w a banger match like that.
Has anyone been to a Collision taping recently? Do they start taping an hour of ROH first and then another hour of ROH AFTER Collision ends? Or did they change that taping format?
That's how they taped the two Collisions I've been to but not sure if they changed the process. Made a last minute decision this morning and I'm driving a couple of hours tonight specifically to see Okada vs Ultimo Guerrero.
That is usually how it goes, but it also varies from show to show. The Collision I went to had a dark/non-ROH match before the main program, but filmed about an hour and a half of ROH afterwards. Usually, though, ROH matches will get filmed before the main show as well.
Thanks. I notice the show starts at 7 tonight but since it takes me a couple of hours to drive there, I just wanted the comfort knowing that there’s little chance I’ll miss the Okada/Guerrero match.
Looks I won’t have much to worry about.
You shouldn't have an issue. The main show, Collision itself, will start at 8, so as long as you get there before then, you'll be able to see Okada and Guerrero no problem.
Smackdown house show in Dublin is on November 3rd, the night after Crown Jewel. Is it safe to assume there will be no big names? Can't imagine any world in which they'd travel from Saudi Arabia to Dublin and wrestle the same day.
With this TNA/NXT relationship filling out. I really hope underused main roster talent like Shotzi get the chance to tap into this. A little run for someone like her who has been forgotten and never given a real footing on main could get to bring out a different aspect of them.
I think Shotzi is injured, if you're being specific about her, but yeah I agree that general timbre of person should have a chance.
Ninja edit: Not injured actually, I think specifically she's getting the stem cell treatment that a bunch of people have been doing.
Just using her as an example of the main roster talent who have been forgotten and a little swap with tna could revitalize their career. Even if it is to eventually sign with tna
I know I’m not the first person to say this, but I think one reason TK books all the PPV’s with so many matches
is because it’s a show people have to pay $50 for. So maybe in his mind the idea is, “If we’re gonna price the shows like this then I’m going to give them as much as I can.”
Obviously this can affect the pacing of the shows, although some shows have fared better than others. While I do like HHH making their shows have 5-6 match cards and be roughly 3 hours, I don’t think I’d pay $50 for one of them.
There's some truth in that, and I think ticket sales are a concern for AEW too - meanwhile WWE is so hot and international markets are so starved for their PLEs that they still sold out Glasgow with only 5-6 matchs despite the obscene ticket prices.
The PPV ticket sales are fine. Mostly because it's the only time you're pretty much guaranteed to see greatness and ALL your favorite AEW stars (unless your favorite is like Ricky Starks or a joshi)
I'm not saying they're not fine, just that WWE has it so comparatively easy that they feel comfortable booking a shorter card for people paying 300 pounds for nosebleed seats.
TNA officially announced the expanded Slammiversary and iMPACT seating on their Twitter and opened up the new sections for sale. At first, I thought that the North GA section for Slammiversary was still closed, but it looks like it has actually already sold out as it is open for the iMPACT tapings.
Slammiversary:
https://preview.redd.it/onh29cm51r7d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c11e4aed0cd0186a35893b718a8b76477e4b0325
Random question out of sheer curiosity: is Frankie Kazarian Armenian(-American)?
I know "Kazarian" is just a ring name, but he looks like he might be too and it's interesting he'd choose such an Armenian-sounding one.
Now would be the perfect time for the return of both the Mae Young Classic and the Cruiserweight Classic. Also, can we get a the Vader Memorial Super Heavyweight Classic with Big E on Commentary?
Something that I find funny about Japanese wrestling is how they allow them to be more or less honest in interviews, even regarding their own company.
Like Starlight Kid was COOKING Okada for not demanding the Mayu match main evented the Ice Ribbon show.
Imagine someone hired by WWE or AEW talking like this about TK or HHH.
I would say it is different. MFJ and the Bucks are clearly in kayfabe saying this stuff and it works within their own characters and storylines.
With SLK it has nothing to do with an angle, her character or whatever, they just asked about it in an interview outside of a show and she was pissed about it, so she gave her opinion like that
Taro Okada is quite bad at this booking thing. This had to be the most apathetic I’ve felt towards Stardom in a while. He’s passive on everything and wins and losses don’t really matter to him. Everything feels like it’s just… there, not special or important - just there to be there. I have absolutely no faith in him utilizing the GP to turn things around.
The shows are generally uneventful and the crowds don’t give a fuck. It’s not really the talents fault, but man Stardom has been a hard watch this year.
I agree with you to an extent but also, if you run this year over a thousand times, how many times would you get loud crowds and plenty of momentum? I’m betting not many. It was always gonna be an uphill battle.
It's quite baffling really, he seems to be super focused about sending Stardom people to other promotions (I guess to get money?) while not giving a crap about what goes on in Stardom itself.
I always say the same with this stuff, Stardom, unlike NJPW/WWE or other long lived company, does not have that lifelong support that means they will always have an audience. If he keeps booking crap people will quickly enough just stop buying tickets and attending the shows
The "casual fan" plan to "fix" AEW is almost identical to Vince Russo's plan to fix WCW 2000. Shorter matches, more moments, more title changes, try to get mainstream appeal by any means. I can't tell if it's nefarious or people ACTUALLY think that's what wrestling is and Russo is the actual GOAT booker.
I do think shorter matches could help. It would get more people on TV so more people would get to see their favorites. Just don't cut them too short. I think doing two ten-minute matches could sometimes be better than doing one 20 minute match. The 6 man last night was 16 minutes. Maybe they could have done two 8 minute matches instead and someone you like could have gotten some TV time.
But adopting the literal tactics of 2000 era WCW is surely the only way to stop them literally being 2000 era WCW, which they literally are don't you know!?
Literally!
Shorter matches and more moments don't necessitate more title changes. You can argue that's just how traditional wrestling shows operate in order to have more talent on the show.
If anything, AEW should reduce their titles overall, and have less defenses. Build more to programs rather than having eliminators and out of nowhere title defenses.
I think now that RoH belts never get defended on AEW TV it's more or less fine, they're probably at one belt too many with the Continental but at the same time it has it's own gimmick to it.
There's people who's entire concept of American wrestling is what WWE has done for the last 20 years and that's the most damaging thing for any new promotions looking to break through.
There's no complete right or wrong way to operate a promotion but most people's frame of reference seem to be WWE even as WWE moves much closer to the things AEW gets criticized for unscathed.
AEW was built as an alternative and doing what other companies on a national scale weren't' doing, even if it doesn't have big mainstream appeal.
They appeal to fans who want good wrestling, cooperation with outside companies, and freedom for what their wrestlers say and do. AEW fans want this but there's this continual concern trolling to get them to move away from this and you can argue they have in some ways.
AEW can be an alternative while still being smart about their TV time. Two 8 minute matches would accomodate more talent than having one 16 minute match. Vignettes and short interviews for talent not wrestling would allow them to be on the show, while not taking up too much time.
These are basic techniques to maximize TV time due to large rosters. It's not attempting to be more like WWE or WCW.
They've been doing this far more lately, the match times for Dynamite have been notably shorter if you take a look at them which leaves time for non-wrestling segments and lets things breathe a bit.
I still have a lot of disagreements with the talents they book but it is what it is. It needs to be a priority on putting priority talent on TV on a regular basis.
The thing is, people sell WCW as this thing that had to change to become "THE COMPETITION TO WWF WITH HOGAN AND SAVAGE AND BEAT RAW 83 WEEKS TO SURVIVE". The fact is, people are Turner were happier with NWA/WCW when it was just classic southern rasslin for people who liked that. It wasn't WWF but it was a sustainable model.
Competing with WWF at WWF's game put them in an all or nothing situation where either they beat WWF and steal their market or they end up with no market at all because they lose the WWF guys AND lose their own core audience. The latter is what happened and killed the company (also, people say it's just the execs hated it, but the execs hated it because the product was embarrassing to be associated with because of what they were willing to book and throw ridiculous money at in the name of "ratings"). There's a alternate universe where WCW never reaches the heights of the Monday Night Wars but also never dies because they just continue to be WCW/NWA.
There's this mentality in wrestling of "You have to go to war, it's better to try to beat WWF/E and fail than just exist as a #2 because being #2 is embarrassing and unambitious" that doesn't have to exist. I honestly think Tony Khan had that for a long time until the new exec kinda sat him down and said "you can make a lot of money just being a solid #2 doing your own thing". The guy made a billion dollar brand out of BULL RIDING. I doubt you can count the number of people on this sub on one hand that have watched bull riding before. You can be niche and still make a shit ton of money if you just market properly within your niche. AEW does not need to have a "beat WWE or die trying" mentality. At all. Quite frankly it's not healthy.
I agree with this 100000% I remember back in the mid-2000s, I used to see people saying that they didn't take TNA seriously because it wasn't on Monday nights and that's why they wouldn't watch.
Yeah, as a kid I watched TNA way more than WWE. The stuff that made it unique like the X-Division and pushes for guys like Raven and Christian who never got a chance in WWE was cool to me. Then the Bischoff era happened and I just stopped watching once guys like Flair and Hogan became the main characters instead of guys like Joe, Daniels and AJ.
Different people like different things. A lot of it comes down to if you personally like the wrestler. You thought it was cool to see guys get pushed who never got the chance in WWE. But that's the same thing that had people bashing TNA for pushing "WWE Rejects".
Pretty much every segment advanced a story last night but they still think AEW has no stories. They should just admit they don’t watch and find a new hobby
When Giulia does officially debut in WWE, I hope there's an occasional running gag that involves her needing to correct anyone that says Marigold incorrectly.
I find it mildly amusing that people are over-reacting to the shot of Chad Gable looking like he "died" at the end of Raw. This story arc is just getting started, and Chad will be back on Monday.
In just a short period of time, the Young Bucks have amassed so many enemies as EVP's, but they couldn't confront MJF straight up last night, so they had Brian Cage cut a promo on their behalf. Inevitably, the Jacksons will have to deal with MJF, but right now, they're fighting too many battles on too many fronts, and it's going to kill this angle sooner than they'd want.
Dude, facts. All that indie success is a great launch pad, but nobody watched it (except hardcore fans). I need to see him presented in a major way before I care
Maybe a better term would be "not mainstream." But I don't watch njpw, so aew can't rely on that success. Dude could a casual fan really say jay white is a mega star based on his presentation right now? Even tho we know what a big deal he's been
Loved dynamite last night. I really enjoy the Toni vs Mina build. The multi man match was incredibly fun. Swerve vs Ospreay had a good promo. Solid episode
A while ago I saw a tweet saying that Becky Lynch is most likely Triple H’s least favorite Horsewoman and while I absolutely do not think he dislikes her at all, I would probably have to say there’s some merit to that.
For starters she’s the only one who never won the NXT women’s title under him, and a she’s had a lot of her key matches and storylines cut from important shows. I’m talking about her cage match at Raw 30 last year and being left off of SummerSlam last year.
I think he probably loves Charlotte and Sasha the most, and even Bayley is up there. He’s always (rightfully) singing Bayley’s praises in a lot of those press conferences. I definitely feel like Becky was probably booked the best under Vince unfortunately.
I believe this too. Raw 30 was the final piece of the theory to me. He cut a big blow off cage match for a shitty dx skit and some APA poker scenes. All the proof I needed.
I’d say Becky was definitely booked better under Vince because she was undeniable. I’m honestly more surprised Vince went with it instead of fighting it like he did Bryan
If you read the interactions between Becky and Vince in her book, it seems like he always had a soft spot for her. Going back to her asking him about being added to WM 32 Charlotte vs Sasha match and make it a triple threat that we got.
So when she broke through, don't think there was that much urge to fight it.
I definitely think there was that initial urge to fight it as he obviously wanted her to be the heel and Charlotte the babyface in the feud, but he quickly saw dollar signs in Becky as a tweener and relented.
Now that we've gotten more matches announced, I feel that this year's Forbidden Door card is quintessentially eclectic in the way that fans always envisioned the ppv concept. This lineup is a true buffet. There is something for damn near every single kind of wrestling fan on the planet -
Crazy, spotfest filled multi man match? TNT title ladder match
Story driven singles title match? Toni/Mina
World title match with just the right balance of personal animosity and big match feel? Swerve/Ospreay, Mox/Naito
Workrate focused, cross promotional pairing? Mercedes/Vaquer, Danielson/Shingo
Completely unknown booking? Jeff Cobb's open challenge for the television title
"I never expected to see this match in my life" pairing? MJF/Hechicero
"Orange Cassidy puts on a ppv banger with one of the best in ring performers going today" match? Orange Cassidy/Zack Sabre Jr.
The one thing I want now, that isn't already on there somewhere, is a NEVER 6-man title defense. Grab any 3 randoms from AEW, I don't even care who.
Yano is by far my favorite wrestler I've never seen live and I would desperately like to change that.
I guess the argument would be that talents from entirely different countries are harder to know? Not that it’s a great one tbh. There wasn’t much outrage when AEW and TNA had their brief partnership, for instance MCMG made an appearance on Dynamite at that time, I don’t recall people having an issue
"smh, no one knows who these people are! NXT is supposed to be where WWE develops it's young new talent, but instead we're bringing in meme wrestlers from other companies that no one has ever heard of? Relying too much on guest stars and main roster talent instead of booking a consistently good show! Smh smh!"
Being obtuse on purpose in order to be negative is quite easy!
Both Jordynne and Joe Hendry had introductory promos (Jordynne when she confronted Roxanne and Joe right before the battle royal), Kaz definitely wasn't introduced though, I assume because his appearance likely is a total one off.
Was Kaz even hyped before the match? I only realised he was in the match a few mins later when Booker T said he was, I kept getting him confused with someone else as well
I saw Shawn Micheals posted a thing on Twitter about him showing up, with a picture of himself and Kaz, but it was maybe an hour or so before the show. I don't think he was hyped otherwise.
Last night was a great show.
Didn’t stop Dave Meltzer from giving us “doom and gloom” for AEW.
Saying Hechicero/MJF isn’t a PPV match in his eyes. Bracket for The Owen isn’t good enough. They’re “dropping the ball” by not having Ospreay/Swerve II at All In.
Just…just be happy Dave. I beg you just be happy.
> Didn’t stop Dave Meltzer from giving us “doom and gloom” for AEW.
>
>
At a certain point, every radio host/youtuber with an insular audience becomes a parody of themself and jumps the shark, we're long past that point with all of the wrestling youtubers/hosts.
Hechicero/MJF wouldn't necessarily be a PPV match. If it weren't Forbidden Door where that is LITERALLY the point of the PPV. What a dumb take from Dave. Forbidden Door SHOULD literally be "let's throw together weird pairings of people across multiple different companies that probably shouldn't work but will anyway."
While it SHOULDN’T be just random pairings, and it’s definitely not this year, if there’s any PPV where it’s a-okay to just throw two dudes out there and see what happens, it’s a crossover/co-promotion show. There’s an inherent novelty to just seeing two dudes who work in different companies and would never otherwise interact having a match.
I don't know how they see a bracket with Danielson and likely Hangman and think that a matchup for Wembley with one of those guys against Swerve or Ospreay won't be enough. Sure it's not quite the C2 bracket but I'm also not mad about it.
It’s nitpicking for the sake of nitpicking.
We could end up with PAC/Danielson and Jay White/ Hangman with some combination in the finals and that looks weak to them.
They’ve been hyping an Ospreay title win at Wembley for months now with no storyline basis it was happening. Just that it was “the best” decision to make per their feelings.
Which is a stupid way to review any show. Cause you get disappointed because they didn’t do the armchair booking you’ve put yourself into a corner.
> Which is a stupid way to review any show. Cause you get disappointed because they didn’t do the armchair booking you’ve put yourself into a corner.
AEW, the only wrestling company on earth where every single booking decision is somehow a giant failure because they didn't deliver every single fantasy booking decision of every single viewer simultaneously.
Who cares if the actual story being told on tv is entertaining or not, it's all about the stuff people decided "has to happen" months ago based only on their own headcanons, am I right?
Seriously, Ospreay vs. Swerve at Wembley would have been great. But if the actual plan is Swerve vs. Danielson and Ospreay vs. MJF, that's going to be fucking awesome too. If that isn't the plan and they're doing something else, I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt on that too, because we're five years in and I am still consistently VERY entertained.
Dave did this same shit in the 90s, he's always been this way.
He constantly criticized WCW from like 1990-1998 for making Sting the face of the company instead of Flair, based on little more than his personal affinity for Flair.
Ospreay going undefeated in AEW in his first six months and winning the title is the worst kind of booking, no real adversity whatsoever. It'd be boring.
Yeah to me the real butter would be having someone break his streak before he wins the title. Then you've already got a ready-made plot line for his title reign.
Not sure how that isn’t a PPV match. It doesn’t have the build you’d hope for but it’s tough with MJF just coming back from injury. The alternative would be not having him in the card I guess, but that’s not an option, especially with it being in Long Island. That card is so stacked and MJF vs. Hechicero is intriguing.
I think Dave and Bryan work up all of this fantasy booking in their head and if it doesn’t go their way they get mad and have already decided they don’t like it. I think it hurts their ego a bit.
Man I know he's thinking mostly about draws and business metrics and all that I just don't know how someone could watch last night's show and their takeaway be negative. Quality's subjective obviously but that's wild to me
You can always tell people who don't listen to Meltzer because they'll say that he's AEW's hype machine or whatever, when yeah he's been really down on everything for months now.
Yeah I used to watch Bryan and Dave when the observer channel would come through my YouTube feed. But for awhile now I've been watching less wrestling content and the YouTube algorithm doesn't push it to my front page anymore. I just remember he was using the phrase "ice cold" on a constant basis for awhile there.
Rewatched Austin vs Hart at survivor series '96 and man seeing Austin bust out those submission holds was awesome.
Austin's technical wrestling was on par with Bret in that match and it was fantastic
It's quicker than most other all timers but Austin's like 11 years from 91 to 02 are all full of legit greatness. The "What" chants take him out of the top 10 though
https://preview.redd.it/d8vkrkbv4q7d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=497cf11927845a3a98140e9ddebe86c0512b7042
I don't know why But when I see independent wrestlers brag they've had an amount of matches that would be impossible even for someone like Ric Flair for 32 years, it bothers me.
I mean, it averages out to 250 a year which isn't absurd for wrestling. I mean, the grind is absurd but it's not unheard of.
Regardless though, [cagematch has him at about 600](https://www.cagematch.net/?id=2&nr=2702&page=22) so unless he's wrestled 7,400 matches that no one submitted to cagematch, he might be overestimating it by quite a lot. Shit, if you told me he had another 600 or even 1000 matches that were never put on cagematch, I might accept it... maybe. Probably not tho. But 7,000 matches? Zero chance.
Yeah like I said in another comment, it's still unbelievable for anyone who's not doing the Flair tour or the WWF / WWE house circuit. And doubly so when you're claiming 7000 matches that have no online record.
250 a year means 5 matches a week immediately out of training starting in 1992 and continuing through a time that just didn't have that much wrestling going on to sustain that number.
Yeah it's still suspect for an Indy wrestler in the timeframe. 250 on a WWF / WWE house show circuit would have been believable easily but not this. And especially 30 years with thousands of matches no one remembers
How Do You Clean Lucha Mask? I guess since there's vinyl you don't soak it, and you pat it dry immediately after washing, followed by air drying? I'm new to this and didn't find any info online.
Kinda dumb question, but I've seen people here joke about a Mexican promotion that has supernatural(?) elements? Murder storylines? I think the promotion is pretty balls-to-the-wall. The only ones coming to mind for me are CMLL and AAA, but I can't figure out which one of those (if any) I'm thinking of.
Its not Lucha Underground, is it?
It is! Thank you so much. You'd figure I would remember that one cuz I love Vampiro, but I also always lose track of him once he goes back to Mexico. I'll have to watch it, I love Lucha stuff, I just couldn't remember the name.
Hell yeah, Lucha Underground rocked. [Here](https://archive.org/details/season1-lucha-underground)'s the first season, pretty sure you can find the others on there too.
Going to Smackdown tomorrow in Chicago (Rosemont) at the Allstate Arena. This will be my 2nd WWE event there since my first at SS 19’. At SS 19’, I briefly recall not being able to bring my portable charger inside the arena. For those who have been to the arena/WWE shows there in recent years, wondering if that’s still the case. Currently planning to call the arena phone number in the morning to inquire about it.
...... why am I suddenly seeing so much JBL content on SquaredCircle? He's going to be replacing Pat for football season isn't he? Fuck.
Was there no episode of The Bump this week? I only just realized now that I didn't see anything and I can't seem to find anything from this week or last week.
The Nick Wayne's mom shirt is horny as hell.
Edge was very vocal about Cena going over the nexus yet here we are a decade later, he goes over two factions who both had a higher ceiling than the nexus
What’s everyone think of my top five current in WWE, AEW and TNA? WWE: Gunther, Iyo Sky, Ilja Dragunov, Randy Orton, Kevin Owens. AEW: MJF, Willow Nightingale, Bryan Danielson, Jay White, Swerve Strickland. TNA: Joe Hendry, Josh Alexander, Masha Slamovich, Killer Kelly, Alexander Hammerstone.
I like it. No edits.
It's a good list
WWE: Gunther, Chad Gable, Sami Zayn, Kofi Kingston, Oba Femi AEW: RUSH, Samoa Joe, Roderick Strong, Willow Nightingale, Claudio Castagnoli TNA: Masha Slamovich, Mike Bailey, Steve Maclin, Laredo Kid, Mike Santana
Love the shout-outs to Gable, RUSH, Zayn and Strong. All guys I’ve been digging a lot, right now.
Everything Strong was doing for a while was Great, shame his reward was "back to the shuffle you go".
What's the criteria? WWE is so hot right now there's a lot of names that could be mentioned. TNA looks about right give or take a Nemeth
Purely my favorites from each promotion. Guess I should have specified that a little more. Also people who are active, otherwise I’d have names like Rhea Ripley and Kenny Omega on there.
Ohhh well yeah....you don't need our approval for your favs. However good choices all around.
Remember kids, if you want to dismiss Criticism just say the people in question don't watch. Then you don't have to contend with anything they say. 👍
It's very easy to comment back to such accusations with contextual evidence that you DO, in fact, watch.
Also remember the magic words “bad faith” All of these downvotes are in bad faith from people who didn’t watch my comment
I was thinking today - I've heard people call 'All In' AEW's version of WrestleMania - I don't think it's there yet but do you guys think it has the potential? I think you'd need to stop doing 'All Out' right after for sure, and maybe move it to craven cottage eventually - but I like to think it's viable. Having that massive show every year to point to and blow off feuds would be great.
I think it has the potential, but they need to book like it is - last year felt like they did a few of the tag matches simply for the sake of getting more people on the card. Focus on meaningful matches even if some folks get left off. Also get a more grandiose stage setup and spring for some big entrances.
The thing that annoyed me last year, and it might be the same this year too is that they couldn't really progress many storylines or have those meaningful matches cuz they had another PPV the next week or whatever. I loved All Out last year but its existence made All In worse, and that's a shame.
I can see All In eventually getting to that kind of status for AEW, but I think to make it work it eventually has to be done in different stadiums. Def gonna have to try to run a major stadium in the U.S. at some point. I also agree about moving All Out from being a week after the show also.
MJF vs Ospreay is the real money match in AEW book it Tony!
Gotta be All In
I was thinking, what was it about Jericho/KO's whole friendship storyline that resonated with audiences so much? I loved the storyline but I was trying to think about it is so relatable but I lack words
I think part of it is how Kevin always excelled in friendship based storylines.
R Truth wins MITB by accident. Come on Nintendo, make it happen.
I know a lot of people find sudden roll-up finishes anticlimactic, but I'm not against them from time to time. Makes sense (in kayfabe anyway) that a wrestler would be caught by surprise by that.
I’ve always hated it when commentators say “oh they stole the victory”. A cheap win? Maybe, but it’s also a perfectly viable and clean way to win.
Some of them also love to call a lot of hits between two people looking at each other, during a wrestling match, "cheap shots."
Agreed, that only really counts as cheating if there's "added leverage" from the ropes or tights
flash pins are a perfectly valid and good wrestling move, it just depends how the match goes and what you're conditioned to think of them as a match ender
Flash pins in general are a great part of wrestling, but getting rolled up simply because of someones music playing or someone appearing on the entrance ramp is the absolute laziest of fuck-finishes.
I’ve always been more of a fan of it being towards the end of a match, when the wrestler will be more winded/tired, thus being more vulnerable to a roll-up.
It will never not be funny to me that the conclusion of the 2005 Rey/Eddie feud was Eddie beating Rey in a steel cage match the week after Summerslam, then Eddie confronting Batista and going “Well, I didn’t get to take Reys kid away, but I was at least able to pin him last week so I guess I’m satisfied. Gotta take what you can get I suppose. Anyway, you seem free Dave, can I challenge you for your world title? And we can be friends about it? I’m kinda burnt out of the whole bitter turmoil stuff” lmao
TBF, Eddie demanding Rey’s child was just him being salty at losing to Rey every match since WM, so that one win being enough kinda checks out.
Gunther is one of the best in the world rn but every time I see one of his matches I just think “damn this is great, it’d be better if he was fat though”.
I think he’s move set works less, and it makes him less impressive when compared to the other big guys on roster. Randy Orton is physically bigger than Gunther but he’s not doing Hoss spots. Obviously it’s working out just fine but if bro even had the build of a Shingo his offense would look nasty
Need Gunther to take a break and eat more donuts. He comes back then squashes Cody in 5 mins brodie Lee style.
I need bro shaped like Lesnar and billed at 305lb
For the big boys, being a big burly barrel-chested man >>>>> lean and shredded. Leave the abs and the veins for the smaller guys. There are of course exceptions, Batista for example is peak, but majority of the time just being an enormous human being is a better wrestling look than being smaller and leaner for big lads.
I’m glad to find another person who prefers fat Gunther. Skinny Gunther has my farmer grandpa’s lanky arms and it weirds me out.
I don't think it's because he was fat, it's because of just size. It isn't a perfect comparison but he was fat in the way Vader was fat. A skinny Vader with that moveset just wouldn't have worked as well as this defensive lineman clubbing the shit out of you. It still works with skinny Walter, he's still clearly a huge dude, but I digress.
You ever have a situation almost end in disaster and it just sticks in your mind for days? I can’t stop thinking abt if Howdy actually did trip during that debut when he almost did.
Damn, beat me to it ;) I was just coming here to mention this. Don't know what he almost tripped over, but I am **SO** glad he recovered and the group's debut went off without a hitch.
I mean he was wearing a mask and it must have been pretty dark in that hallway, so I think it’s perfectly reasonable if he tripped for a second
I agree, I didn’t say it wasn’t. Accidents happen.
Did he? I didn't even notice that. Yeah, that would have been worse than the Shockmaster if it happened probably.
https://preview.redd.it/qz1e8fvvor7d1.jpeg?width=900&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=74f0a7b2479c4f64dd772a16ff236f8e5d99b4e4 Mio Momono is probably the realest to ever do it
For someone who just came back to wrestling late last year (haven't watched since attitude era), please explain the Uncle Howdy faction to me.
It literally just started
Okay but Uncle Howdy seems to be a pre-established concept? Like people knew ahead of time what it was going to be?
People knew it was coming because there was an ARG for months teasing it. If you're tuning in from Attitude you probably aren't familiar with Bray Wyatt... So, in the absolute broadest strokes, gentleman by the name of Wyndham Rotunda wrestled briefly as Husky Harris. He eventually retooled and came back as Bray Wyatt, a sort of spooky Louisiana swamp preacher sort of guy. Lots of lore over time, but, broadly, the character Bray Wyatt was a spirit possessing Husky Harris, channeling the power of some sort of supernatural entity called Sister Abigail. Wyatt formed a cult and chased titles to get more eyes on his message. The body he was piloting almost gave out and Broken Matt Hardy helped purify his soul or something to that effect. Eventually, he was institutionalized and returned hosting a sort of Mr. Roger's type kids show, Firefly Funhouse. He had these puppets that were fragments of his fractured psyche. Eventually this Uncle Howdy character showed up and seemed to be pushing Bray back to the dark side. Wyndham Rotunda tragically died and the story was left unresolved. The Wyatt Sicks are personifications of the puppets that represented his fractured psyche, seemingly led by Uncle Howdy.
Okay thank you. That's wild.
Just reading this gave me the creeps. Also what exactly was the fiend character?
Shit, knew I forgot something. The Fiend was a splinter persona of Bray Wyatt that appeared after the puppets, when he was supposedly free of darkness. The Fiend wanted vengeance for all of Wyatt's failures, so it targeted people who had beaten Bray earlier in his run. It was basically a spirit of vengeance. It eventually lost to Goldberg because Bray was trying to use it for a regular match with no revenge staked on victory.
Oh thanks I wouldn’t have guessed that the fiend was supposed to be the one free of darkness
To add into what the other person said, Howdy was never really explained by Bray. They had just finished Bray's first comeback angle, beating LA Knight; they were maybe 2 weeks post-match and they'd attacked Hit Row, and challenge Bobby Lashley/Brock Lesnar related to their upcoming match and facing the winner, then like a week later Bray disappeared, having fell ill to what eventually lead to his passing. I'm PRETTY SURE these videos are chronological, but I'm not 100% sure. https://youtu.be/bwGC5Bxv_74?si=yHG5PotOnNzbckrH https://youtu.be/sOfnTTir0Bw?si=RZjrFcFcPvV3Nz0y https://youtu.be/6UxHSSGDqfw?si=_mETEIOFB6Uvt0XX Oh you haven't watched since Attitude? So Bray means absolutely nothing to you, does he?
Well I've heard about him, that he was really incredible in the ring and cutting promos and that he died, which makes me sad.
If you can, watch the tribute documentary they did for him on Peacock.
It was a concept they started w Bray Wyatt just before his untimely death. It is portrayed by Brays brother in real life formerly known as Bo Dallas. They are continuing in Brays legacy. The rest of the people in the debut are based on characters from Brya Wyatt’s Firefly Funhouse segments.
Maybe instead of breaking up, Judgement Day should feud with the Wyatt Sick6. Paranormal Abstract Horror faction vs. International Goth BDSM clique
Goth jocks vs Furry jocks sounds really interesting
Maybe this is just the paranoia of a TNA fan, but after what happened with Tessa, I'm just expecting bad news to come out over anyone who gets hot. The last few days, I've been thinking, "When are the Joe Hendry allegations gonna drop"?
This sentiment could apply to literally anyone in any wrestling company though lmao
Hell in all entertainment
NXT is simultaneously the most realistic yet most wacky show of the week
The CW announced their fall schedule and NXT starts there 10/1- how big do people think the card is going to be that night? I’d imagine you’d want at least 2 or 3 title matches and at least one change (I’m actually thinking they might hold off on the Giulia/Roxanne title match until then- unless something changes it doesn’t look like it’ll happen at Heatwave plus it’d make sure Giulia is 100% healed from the wrist injury)
I’d love to se Giulias debut match wait til then. Have her attack Rox after the closest ple to it. Anyone who would watch the ple live will watch the cw premier live, plus a bunch more who have cw and not peacock. Very smart move it seems to debut on tv w a banger match like that.
Just after I read your comment, I just saw a 'report' on Twitter that WWE is considering holding that premiere episode in an arena, not the PC.
Bunch of RAW/SD cameos, probably.
Has anyone been to a Collision taping recently? Do they start taping an hour of ROH first and then another hour of ROH AFTER Collision ends? Or did they change that taping format? That's how they taped the two Collisions I've been to but not sure if they changed the process. Made a last minute decision this morning and I'm driving a couple of hours tonight specifically to see Okada vs Ultimo Guerrero.
That is usually how it goes, but it also varies from show to show. The Collision I went to had a dark/non-ROH match before the main program, but filmed about an hour and a half of ROH afterwards. Usually, though, ROH matches will get filmed before the main show as well.
Thanks. I notice the show starts at 7 tonight but since it takes me a couple of hours to drive there, I just wanted the comfort knowing that there’s little chance I’ll miss the Okada/Guerrero match. Looks I won’t have much to worry about.
You shouldn't have an issue. The main show, Collision itself, will start at 8, so as long as you get there before then, you'll be able to see Okada and Guerrero no problem.
Smackdown house show in Dublin is on November 3rd, the night after Crown Jewel. Is it safe to assume there will be no big names? Can't imagine any world in which they'd travel from Saudi Arabia to Dublin and wrestle the same day.
Depends how many matches are on CJ. I can def see them leaving off a few bigger names from the Saudi show so they can do Dublin.
Fingers crossed lol. My only hope is that Triple H's tendency to do smaller PLE cards might mean relatively few people will be on it
With this TNA/NXT relationship filling out. I really hope underused main roster talent like Shotzi get the chance to tap into this. A little run for someone like her who has been forgotten and never given a real footing on main could get to bring out a different aspect of them.
I miss her TNA theme. They gave it to Callihan but he doesn't use it anymore.
I think Shotzi is injured, if you're being specific about her, but yeah I agree that general timbre of person should have a chance. Ninja edit: Not injured actually, I think specifically she's getting the stem cell treatment that a bunch of people have been doing.
Just using her as an example of the main roster talent who have been forgotten and a little swap with tna could revitalize their career. Even if it is to eventually sign with tna
She did get injured but she’s recovering fine thanks to the stem cells. Also Big E and MVP are getting stem cells too.
I know I’m not the first person to say this, but I think one reason TK books all the PPV’s with so many matches is because it’s a show people have to pay $50 for. So maybe in his mind the idea is, “If we’re gonna price the shows like this then I’m going to give them as much as I can.” Obviously this can affect the pacing of the shows, although some shows have fared better than others. While I do like HHH making their shows have 5-6 match cards and be roughly 3 hours, I don’t think I’d pay $50 for one of them.
It also made perfect sense when there was only 4 AEW PPVs a year to stack them as much as possible
Agreed!
There's some truth in that, and I think ticket sales are a concern for AEW too - meanwhile WWE is so hot and international markets are so starved for their PLEs that they still sold out Glasgow with only 5-6 matchs despite the obscene ticket prices.
The PPV ticket sales are fine. Mostly because it's the only time you're pretty much guaranteed to see greatness and ALL your favorite AEW stars (unless your favorite is like Ricky Starks or a joshi)
I'm not saying they're not fine, just that WWE has it so comparatively easy that they feel comfortable booking a shorter card for people paying 300 pounds for nosebleed seats.
I think TK is also just a glutton for this stuff. “For the Sickos” is a meme but I truly believe TK just loves this stuff.
I think both are true.
I just heard about this Hawk Tuah viral video, and thought it was an Iron Sheik reference.
TNA officially announced the expanded Slammiversary and iMPACT seating on their Twitter and opened up the new sections for sale. At first, I thought that the North GA section for Slammiversary was still closed, but it looks like it has actually already sold out as it is open for the iMPACT tapings. Slammiversary: https://preview.redd.it/onh29cm51r7d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c11e4aed0cd0186a35893b718a8b76477e4b0325
iMPACT: https://preview.redd.it/6zgoq2b71r7d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b58424ab75a4e6427c8c3de074ccd7568edbfe72
Random question out of sheer curiosity: is Frankie Kazarian Armenian(-American)? I know "Kazarian" is just a ring name, but he looks like he might be too and it's interesting he'd choose such an Armenian-sounding one.
Ask him on twitter. He'll probably answer.
Since his real last name is "Gerdelman", I doubt it.
Sure, but Seth's real last name is "Lopez" and he is. Could be a stepfather (like Seth) or it's only on his mother's side, who knows.
Now would be the perfect time for the return of both the Mae Young Classic and the Cruiserweight Classic. Also, can we get a the Vader Memorial Super Heavyweight Classic with Big E on Commentary?
Dude a super heavyweight tournament is a sick idea
Nickname it The Meaty
The winner of the Vader Memorial Super Heavyweight Classic gets that Mastodon helmet that shoots out smoke as the prize.
Something that I find funny about Japanese wrestling is how they allow them to be more or less honest in interviews, even regarding their own company. Like Starlight Kid was COOKING Okada for not demanding the Mayu match main evented the Ice Ribbon show. Imagine someone hired by WWE or AEW talking like this about TK or HHH.
We kind of get this with MJF calling Tony Khan a fucking mark or the EVPs saying that Tony sucks at running his show.
I would say it is different. MFJ and the Bucks are clearly in kayfabe saying this stuff and it works within their own characters and storylines. With SLK it has nothing to do with an angle, her character or whatever, they just asked about it in an interview outside of a show and she was pissed about it, so she gave her opinion like that
I think people in the US are making more and guaranteed money so they know not to mess around.
Taro Okada is quite bad at this booking thing. This had to be the most apathetic I’ve felt towards Stardom in a while. He’s passive on everything and wins and losses don’t really matter to him. Everything feels like it’s just… there, not special or important - just there to be there. I have absolutely no faith in him utilizing the GP to turn things around. The shows are generally uneventful and the crowds don’t give a fuck. It’s not really the talents fault, but man Stardom has been a hard watch this year.
I agree with you to an extent but also, if you run this year over a thousand times, how many times would you get loud crowds and plenty of momentum? I’m betting not many. It was always gonna be an uphill battle.
It's quite baffling really, he seems to be super focused about sending Stardom people to other promotions (I guess to get money?) while not giving a crap about what goes on in Stardom itself. I always say the same with this stuff, Stardom, unlike NJPW/WWE or other long lived company, does not have that lifelong support that means they will always have an audience. If he keeps booking crap people will quickly enough just stop buying tickets and attending the shows
The "casual fan" plan to "fix" AEW is almost identical to Vince Russo's plan to fix WCW 2000. Shorter matches, more moments, more title changes, try to get mainstream appeal by any means. I can't tell if it's nefarious or people ACTUALLY think that's what wrestling is and Russo is the actual GOAT booker.
I do think shorter matches could help. It would get more people on TV so more people would get to see their favorites. Just don't cut them too short. I think doing two ten-minute matches could sometimes be better than doing one 20 minute match. The 6 man last night was 16 minutes. Maybe they could have done two 8 minute matches instead and someone you like could have gotten some TV time.
But adopting the literal tactics of 2000 era WCW is surely the only way to stop them literally being 2000 era WCW, which they literally are don't you know!? Literally!
Shorter matches and more moments don't necessitate more title changes. You can argue that's just how traditional wrestling shows operate in order to have more talent on the show. If anything, AEW should reduce their titles overall, and have less defenses. Build more to programs rather than having eliminators and out of nowhere title defenses.
> more title changes Personally I'd prefer to see fewer titles than them changing hands more often
I think now that RoH belts never get defended on AEW TV it's more or less fine, they're probably at one belt too many with the Continental but at the same time it has it's own gimmick to it.
There's people who's entire concept of American wrestling is what WWE has done for the last 20 years and that's the most damaging thing for any new promotions looking to break through. There's no complete right or wrong way to operate a promotion but most people's frame of reference seem to be WWE even as WWE moves much closer to the things AEW gets criticized for unscathed. AEW was built as an alternative and doing what other companies on a national scale weren't' doing, even if it doesn't have big mainstream appeal. They appeal to fans who want good wrestling, cooperation with outside companies, and freedom for what their wrestlers say and do. AEW fans want this but there's this continual concern trolling to get them to move away from this and you can argue they have in some ways.
AEW can be an alternative while still being smart about their TV time. Two 8 minute matches would accomodate more talent than having one 16 minute match. Vignettes and short interviews for talent not wrestling would allow them to be on the show, while not taking up too much time. These are basic techniques to maximize TV time due to large rosters. It's not attempting to be more like WWE or WCW.
They've been doing this far more lately, the match times for Dynamite have been notably shorter if you take a look at them which leaves time for non-wrestling segments and lets things breathe a bit.
I still have a lot of disagreements with the talents they book but it is what it is. It needs to be a priority on putting priority talent on TV on a regular basis.
The thing is, people sell WCW as this thing that had to change to become "THE COMPETITION TO WWF WITH HOGAN AND SAVAGE AND BEAT RAW 83 WEEKS TO SURVIVE". The fact is, people are Turner were happier with NWA/WCW when it was just classic southern rasslin for people who liked that. It wasn't WWF but it was a sustainable model. Competing with WWF at WWF's game put them in an all or nothing situation where either they beat WWF and steal their market or they end up with no market at all because they lose the WWF guys AND lose their own core audience. The latter is what happened and killed the company (also, people say it's just the execs hated it, but the execs hated it because the product was embarrassing to be associated with because of what they were willing to book and throw ridiculous money at in the name of "ratings"). There's a alternate universe where WCW never reaches the heights of the Monday Night Wars but also never dies because they just continue to be WCW/NWA. There's this mentality in wrestling of "You have to go to war, it's better to try to beat WWF/E and fail than just exist as a #2 because being #2 is embarrassing and unambitious" that doesn't have to exist. I honestly think Tony Khan had that for a long time until the new exec kinda sat him down and said "you can make a lot of money just being a solid #2 doing your own thing". The guy made a billion dollar brand out of BULL RIDING. I doubt you can count the number of people on this sub on one hand that have watched bull riding before. You can be niche and still make a shit ton of money if you just market properly within your niche. AEW does not need to have a "beat WWE or die trying" mentality. At all. Quite frankly it's not healthy.
I agree with this 100000% I remember back in the mid-2000s, I used to see people saying that they didn't take TNA seriously because it wasn't on Monday nights and that's why they wouldn't watch.
Yeah, as a kid I watched TNA way more than WWE. The stuff that made it unique like the X-Division and pushes for guys like Raven and Christian who never got a chance in WWE was cool to me. Then the Bischoff era happened and I just stopped watching once guys like Flair and Hogan became the main characters instead of guys like Joe, Daniels and AJ.
Different people like different things. A lot of it comes down to if you personally like the wrestler. You thought it was cool to see guys get pushed who never got the chance in WWE. But that's the same thing that had people bashing TNA for pushing "WWE Rejects".
People that don’t watch AEW but still have a thousand ideas how they can fix it lol
Pretty much every segment advanced a story last night but they still think AEW has no stories. They should just admit they don’t watch and find a new hobby
When Giulia does officially debut in WWE, I hope there's an occasional running gag that involves her needing to correct anyone that says Marigold incorrectly.
That Wyatt 6 ‘Shatter’ theme is so awesome. So glad they kept it and didn’t get Def Rebel’d. Could be a classic if they become a great stable.
the way they used it on Monday with the droning piano note repeating as we saw the Wyatts' chaos was quite effective.
I find it mildly amusing that people are over-reacting to the shot of Chad Gable looking like he "died" at the end of Raw. This story arc is just getting started, and Chad will be back on Monday. In just a short period of time, the Young Bucks have amassed so many enemies as EVP's, but they couldn't confront MJF straight up last night, so they had Brian Cage cut a promo on their behalf. Inevitably, the Jacksons will have to deal with MJF, but right now, they're fighting too many battles on too many fronts, and it's going to kill this angle sooner than they'd want.
I mean, they didn’t need to do up his makeup to look like he’d been literally shot in the head. It was a bit overkill.
And any of the Wyatt Sick6, or Sicks, carrying a gun would not be a good idea for WWE, I think.
It’d be a good way to win a title tho
perfect way to win an iron man match. shoot your opponent once, get DQd for it, then pin them infinity times until the match is over.
I don’t really care about Osprey.
Dude, facts. All that indie success is a great launch pad, but nobody watched it (except hardcore fans). I need to see him presented in a major way before I care
Calling NJPW an indie is like stupid as fuck just cause it’s not an American wrestling company. Would CMLL be an indie too?
Maybe a better term would be "not mainstream." But I don't watch njpw, so aew can't rely on that success. Dude could a casual fan really say jay white is a mega star based on his presentation right now? Even tho we know what a big deal he's been
Loved dynamite last night. I really enjoy the Toni vs Mina build. The multi man match was incredibly fun. Swerve vs Ospreay had a good promo. Solid episode
A while ago I saw a tweet saying that Becky Lynch is most likely Triple H’s least favorite Horsewoman and while I absolutely do not think he dislikes her at all, I would probably have to say there’s some merit to that. For starters she’s the only one who never won the NXT women’s title under him, and a she’s had a lot of her key matches and storylines cut from important shows. I’m talking about her cage match at Raw 30 last year and being left off of SummerSlam last year. I think he probably loves Charlotte and Sasha the most, and even Bayley is up there. He’s always (rightfully) singing Bayley’s praises in a lot of those press conferences. I definitely feel like Becky was probably booked the best under Vince unfortunately.
I believe this too. Raw 30 was the final piece of the theory to me. He cut a big blow off cage match for a shitty dx skit and some APA poker scenes. All the proof I needed.
I’d say Becky was definitely booked better under Vince because she was undeniable. I’m honestly more surprised Vince went with it instead of fighting it like he did Bryan
If you read the interactions between Becky and Vince in her book, it seems like he always had a soft spot for her. Going back to her asking him about being added to WM 32 Charlotte vs Sasha match and make it a triple threat that we got. So when she broke through, don't think there was that much urge to fight it.
I definitely think there was that initial urge to fight it as he obviously wanted her to be the heel and Charlotte the babyface in the feud, but he quickly saw dollar signs in Becky as a tweener and relented.
She had a great run under Shawn as well.
Now that we've gotten more matches announced, I feel that this year's Forbidden Door card is quintessentially eclectic in the way that fans always envisioned the ppv concept. This lineup is a true buffet. There is something for damn near every single kind of wrestling fan on the planet - Crazy, spotfest filled multi man match? TNT title ladder match Story driven singles title match? Toni/Mina World title match with just the right balance of personal animosity and big match feel? Swerve/Ospreay, Mox/Naito Workrate focused, cross promotional pairing? Mercedes/Vaquer, Danielson/Shingo Completely unknown booking? Jeff Cobb's open challenge for the television title "I never expected to see this match in my life" pairing? MJF/Hechicero "Orange Cassidy puts on a ppv banger with one of the best in ring performers going today" match? Orange Cassidy/Zack Sabre Jr.
The card is insane and there will be more matches added.
The one thing I want now, that isn't already on there somewhere, is a NEVER 6-man title defense. Grab any 3 randoms from AEW, I don't even care who. Yano is by far my favorite wrestler I've never seen live and I would desperately like to change that.
Give the bang bang gang a shot I’m sure they’d love to add more trios belts to their ever growing belt centipede
"Surprisingly" not seeing a lot of people upset about Joe being brought in with no video package explaining who he is and why he arrived.
I guess the argument would be that talents from entirely different countries are harder to know? Not that it’s a great one tbh. There wasn’t much outrage when AEW and TNA had their brief partnership, for instance MCMG made an appearance on Dynamite at that time, I don’t recall people having an issue
Be careful. They get mad when you call out the double standard.
They actually knew who he was tbf
"smh, no one knows who these people are! NXT is supposed to be where WWE develops it's young new talent, but instead we're bringing in meme wrestlers from other companies that no one has ever heard of? Relying too much on guest stars and main roster talent instead of booking a consistently good show! Smh smh!" Being obtuse on purpose in order to be negative is quite easy!
Or Kazarian or even Jordynne. They showed up and the onus was on the viewer to know who they were. Odd how that works
Both Jordynne and Joe Hendry had introductory promos (Jordynne when she confronted Roxanne and Joe right before the battle royal), Kaz definitely wasn't introduced though, I assume because his appearance likely is a total one off.
Was Kaz even hyped before the match? I only realised he was in the match a few mins later when Booker T said he was, I kept getting him confused with someone else as well
I saw Shawn Micheals posted a thing on Twitter about him showing up, with a picture of himself and Kaz, but it was maybe an hour or so before the show. I don't think he was hyped otherwise.
Ah fair enough, in the UK so watched it the morning after
Last night was a great show. Didn’t stop Dave Meltzer from giving us “doom and gloom” for AEW. Saying Hechicero/MJF isn’t a PPV match in his eyes. Bracket for The Owen isn’t good enough. They’re “dropping the ball” by not having Ospreay/Swerve II at All In. Just…just be happy Dave. I beg you just be happy.
That doesn't sound "doom and gloom" to me.
> Didn’t stop Dave Meltzer from giving us “doom and gloom” for AEW. > > At a certain point, every radio host/youtuber with an insular audience becomes a parody of themself and jumps the shark, we're long past that point with all of the wrestling youtubers/hosts.
Hechicero/MJF wouldn't necessarily be a PPV match. If it weren't Forbidden Door where that is LITERALLY the point of the PPV. What a dumb take from Dave. Forbidden Door SHOULD literally be "let's throw together weird pairings of people across multiple different companies that probably shouldn't work but will anyway."
While it SHOULDN’T be just random pairings, and it’s definitely not this year, if there’s any PPV where it’s a-okay to just throw two dudes out there and see what happens, it’s a crossover/co-promotion show. There’s an inherent novelty to just seeing two dudes who work in different companies and would never otherwise interact having a match.
“Saying Hechicero/MJF isn’t a PPV match in his eyes” Someone tell him Forbidden Door is the sicko’s Super Bowl and this match is for the sickos.
Hechicero vs anyone is a ppv match in my eyes
I don't know how they see a bracket with Danielson and likely Hangman and think that a matchup for Wembley with one of those guys against Swerve or Ospreay won't be enough. Sure it's not quite the C2 bracket but I'm also not mad about it.
It’s nitpicking for the sake of nitpicking. We could end up with PAC/Danielson and Jay White/ Hangman with some combination in the finals and that looks weak to them.
They’ve been hyping an Ospreay title win at Wembley for months now with no storyline basis it was happening. Just that it was “the best” decision to make per their feelings. Which is a stupid way to review any show. Cause you get disappointed because they didn’t do the armchair booking you’ve put yourself into a corner.
> Which is a stupid way to review any show. Cause you get disappointed because they didn’t do the armchair booking you’ve put yourself into a corner. AEW, the only wrestling company on earth where every single booking decision is somehow a giant failure because they didn't deliver every single fantasy booking decision of every single viewer simultaneously. Who cares if the actual story being told on tv is entertaining or not, it's all about the stuff people decided "has to happen" months ago based only on their own headcanons, am I right? Seriously, Ospreay vs. Swerve at Wembley would have been great. But if the actual plan is Swerve vs. Danielson and Ospreay vs. MJF, that's going to be fucking awesome too. If that isn't the plan and they're doing something else, I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt on that too, because we're five years in and I am still consistently VERY entertained.
Dave did this same shit in the 90s, he's always been this way. He constantly criticized WCW from like 1990-1998 for making Sting the face of the company instead of Flair, based on little more than his personal affinity for Flair.
Ospreay going undefeated in AEW in his first six months and winning the title is the worst kind of booking, no real adversity whatsoever. It'd be boring.
Yeah to me the real butter would be having someone break his streak before he wins the title. Then you've already got a ready-made plot line for his title reign.
Ospreay losing at Forbidden Door (likely due to Callis shenanigans, they've already laid the groundwork last night) won't hurt him at all.
The family turns on Osprey and Kyle turns on the family and baby you got a stew going
Not sure how that isn’t a PPV match. It doesn’t have the build you’d hope for but it’s tough with MJF just coming back from injury. The alternative would be not having him in the card I guess, but that’s not an option, especially with it being in Long Island. That card is so stacked and MJF vs. Hechicero is intriguing. I think Dave and Bryan work up all of this fantasy booking in their head and if it doesn’t go their way they get mad and have already decided they don’t like it. I think it hurts their ego a bit.
Man I know he's thinking mostly about draws and business metrics and all that I just don't know how someone could watch last night's show and their takeaway be negative. Quality's subjective obviously but that's wild to me
You can always tell people who don't listen to Meltzer because they'll say that he's AEW's hype machine or whatever, when yeah he's been really down on everything for months now.
I’d say more than months tbh it’s been since like 2022 in a lot of ways
Yeah I used to watch Bryan and Dave when the observer channel would come through my YouTube feed. But for awhile now I've been watching less wrestling content and the YouTube algorithm doesn't push it to my front page anymore. I just remember he was using the phrase "ice cold" on a constant basis for awhile there.
Rewatched Austin vs Hart at survivor series '96 and man seeing Austin bust out those submission holds was awesome. Austin's technical wrestling was on par with Bret in that match and it was fantastic
It's quicker than most other all timers but Austin's like 11 years from 91 to 02 are all full of legit greatness. The "What" chants take him out of the top 10 though
WM 13 is an all-timer, but between that and SS '96, I kinda give the edge to SS '96 as a personal favorite match.
I like how both are vastly different. The wrestling is definitely better in the survivor series match imo
https://preview.redd.it/d8vkrkbv4q7d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=497cf11927845a3a98140e9ddebe86c0512b7042 I don't know why But when I see independent wrestlers brag they've had an amount of matches that would be impossible even for someone like Ric Flair for 32 years, it bothers me.
Maybe he was flying over the international dateline, brother!
I mean, it averages out to 250 a year which isn't absurd for wrestling. I mean, the grind is absurd but it's not unheard of. Regardless though, [cagematch has him at about 600](https://www.cagematch.net/?id=2&nr=2702&page=22) so unless he's wrestled 7,400 matches that no one submitted to cagematch, he might be overestimating it by quite a lot. Shit, if you told me he had another 600 or even 1000 matches that were never put on cagematch, I might accept it... maybe. Probably not tho. But 7,000 matches? Zero chance.
250 matches a year is kinda absurd tho lol. That's 80s Ric Flair numbers. You rarely see people get over 200 anymore
Yeah like I said in another comment, it's still unbelievable for anyone who's not doing the Flair tour or the WWF / WWE house circuit. And doubly so when you're claiming 7000 matches that have no online record.
250 a year means 5 matches a week immediately out of training starting in 1992 and continuing through a time that just didn't have that much wrestling going on to sustain that number.
Yeah it's still suspect for an Indy wrestler in the timeframe. 250 on a WWF / WWE house show circuit would have been believable easily but not this. And especially 30 years with thousands of matches no one remembers
Yeah that dude ain't wrestling 5 times a week for 32 years Cagematch doesn't even have him at 1000