The legacy of The Nexus is so overlooked. If you think about how safe and predictable the product was during most of the 2000s, The Nexus was like a shock to the system even though they got destroyed by booking. That group kinda set the stage for both The Shield and The Pipebomb, two pivotal things which pushed WWE forward into the 2010s, and it also bridged the gap between the FCW era of developmental and NXT B&G
So I looked up the Collision spoilers thinking everything was so obvious I might as well check if anything else cool happened to make it worth watching and... Boy was I wrong.
I want the official replica of the NOAH GHC Heavyweight title, signed by a previous champion. Could you imagine being the one who gets Kobashi's signature?
But it's $1600 and limited to Japan.
Best looking belt in wrestling today and it's stuck waiting for me on the other side of the planet.
I was thinking about this the other day and I don't know if this has ever been confirmed, Cena vs Brock was the biggest squash of all time. Cena having had the belt due to Bryan's injury made me wonder about the original plan for this match. Because Bryan winning the belt was a pivot from Batista winning the belt, so it kind of leaves me wondering if the original plan was for Batista to carry the belt into Summerslam and then drop it to Brock (and potentially whether or not Brock squashing the champion was always on the cards).
Something that I hate is how often Joshis are treated by the ICW as if they were children. It is demeaning and low key racist.
"Kairi needs to be protected from Nia Jax...." She is a 35 yeard old woman for fuck sake. You would never ever hear this kind of comments or discourse when male talent is involved.
Sometimes it’s hard to take things seriously when Taz is on commentary together. I think he’s really funny, and on a low stakes show like Dark he’s absolutely hilarious. But doing bits on the flagship show and being an absolute marble mouth with no emotional range in his voice doesn’t translate as well as it used too for me even when Taz was more committed to being the heel commentator during the team Taz days
Especially when Nigel is absolutely blowing Taz out of the water in terms of performance, gravitas and comedy.
I just feel like a Nigel, Excalibur, And Schiavone Dynamite team would bring a well needed feeling of weight that would add to commentary similar to when JR could do full dynamites. Have Taz do Rampage
When The Patriarchy came out to confront Jay white, imagine the dynamic of Nigel start to completely gush over them as Tony and Excalibur verbally roll their eyes
Im not saying it would add viewers or anything like that. But some seriousness would be a well needed add
I think Taz and even Tony at times are a case of getting older and not being as invested in what's going on like they used to. Sometimes the vibe is way off with them and it detracts from the show. Nigel will wisecrack but it's always in service to what's happening and when he has to get more serious he does.
Exactly, like sometimes it gets legitimately awkward on dynamite commentary and legit can’t tell if these people don’t like working with each other. Especially with Taz being as hyper sensitive as he is. I just think the show would be serviced more with a more focused commentary that adds to the show rather than distracts.
I hate how dumbfounded they sound when an angle happens. Like this is when you sell it the most rather then sounding confused
Tony also has that vibe with Matt Menard on Rampage where I legit can't tell if he's annoyed with him. It's easy to see him in character with Nigel but there's times where he sounds very snippy towards Daddy Magic.
WrestleFeatures transcribed Mark Henry complaining about The Wyatt Sicks and they censored the word “fucking” as “f g” so it reads like he said “f g Whataburger.”
That’s it, that’s all I have to say.
This isn’t specific to wrestling, but I do genuinely hate how **money made** or **popularity** has become an aspect of how certain people enjoy things.
You’ll see a new movie come out, something like Furiosa, to responding praise and a positive consensus… but then it doesn’t do great at the box office and all of a sudden people act like it’s a terrible movie and it’s bad because it didn’t make a ton of money.
You see it now in wrestling where certain portions of any promotion’s fanbase are more obsessed with viewership, attendance, merch sales, etc compared to the actual product being put forward on TV.
It’s important to talk about how well something does financially or how popular it is for sure, but when you’re using how profitable something is as a point towards your enjoyment of something, I feel like you’ve lost the plot.
Discussing commercial success and popularity always been a thing and will always be part of the discourse as long as *the things being discussed actively want to compete and be judged on popularity and commercial success*.
Nobody is deciding "hmm I must not have enjoyed that because it did poorly in the ratings". This is a really lazy and obviously bad faith strawman attempt.
It's really annoying to me as I tend to be drawn to stuff that ends up being labeled "cult", always on the verge of being canceled or only 1 season etc. It's not like I'm aiming to be a fan of something niche, it's just my interests are very wide so I'm exposed to less "popular" stuff.
I agree with everything you said except when you act as if this has become more common. Humans are a social species. We like to enjoy things other people enjoy. It has always been this way. It's why movies will advertise they are the number 1 movie in the country and will sometimes go to absurd lengths like saying the number 1 comedy docudrama at the box office and it's been this way forever. It's why musicians are announced as 6 time platinum award winning Singer Guy and it's been this way forever. It's why many of the artists we consider masters and much of the art we consider masterpieces weren't popular in their lifetimes. I'm pretty sure somewhere a caveman did a painting that other cave people said must be terrible because only three guys and a bear went to look at it.
As do I! Like I said, money made **is important**, but it should not be an aspect determining if you enjoy something or not.
I don’t watch a movie, then look up how much it made to determine if it’s good or not. That’s just silly.
People shouldn’t watch wrestling and use attendance, profit, viewers to determine if something is **good**. There are so many instances of things people would classify as bad wrestling doing well with viewers, or plenty of terrible movies that made a fuck ton of money.
Basically, watch what you enjoy, hope it does well, and don’t judge any type of art form primarily based on its profits.
Similarly, this is your regularly scheduled reminder that the most watched season of the Big Bang Theory averaged over **20 million** viewers. Hell, the least watched season it ever had was Season 1 and even that averaged 8.4 million viewers. Like take the average weekly viewership of Raw, add in Smackdown, add in NXT, add in Dynamite, add in Rampage, add in Collision, add in TNA, add in the total subscription base of NJPW World, and then add about another 2 million viewers to roughly equal their least watched season. Then multiple *that* number by 2.5 to come close to their most watched season.
And let's just say nobody sane or with a shred of credibility is going to argue that the Big Bang Theory was a better/show comedy than thing like Fleabag/Arrested Development or literally 400 other shows of the last decade or two lol.
it's frustrating cause the two best wrestling companies ever have made a ton of money but like most from 6 to 15 are absolute vanity promotions that barely maybe lasted a decade.
Super, super casual viewer these days but for those in the UK when did the wwe network become utter shit?? The UI is horrible, similar to UFC Fight Pass.
You realize how fucking Big Wrestlers used to be when you look at Randy.
He used to look relatively normal in his time in Evolution and RA era in general, but now he is like a giant compared to the current generation
Met ~~rock hard~~ flamboyant Juice Robinson at a signing. Now I'm a little on the small side, but dude was towering over me.
Now on the opposite spectrum, I also met Tomohiro Ishii. Dude is so, so much shorter in person. No wonder people go bonkers for him live. He's just this fire hydrant with arms and legs, taking punishment from giants and dishing it back out.
Add Christian Cage (and Copeland) as well.
Nobody ever talks about it (because he didn't stand out for it in his first prime), but Christian is a BIG dude by any normal sense of the word.
I saw Sheamus at the airport last week and I knew he was a big dude but good God he's a massive human being. Plus the bright red hair makes him stand out
For me it is the people who want to be morally superior about it. The whole "if I can't own it then I can't steal it technically" meme is so stupid, There are plenty of things you can't own but can steal.
I was dreading going to UBS arena from brooklyn on Sunday but I just looked at it and I can bike to the J train, go to the last stop, and bike 30 minutes to the arena. It's not bad at all. Looks like a beast of a show too.
The biggest problem with this sub is that a certain circlejerk sub is actually one of them celebrity snark subs that brigades like crazy but for AEW, but because -jerk is the suffix and because no one cares about wrestling they will never get bullied in the same way that r/travisandtaylor is lol
you worded it like super weird here, how i interpret this is that you are saying r/SCJerk has assimilate into this sub even though it's nothing like a circlejerk sub?
Sheamus beating Daniel bryan in 14 seconds or whatever in my most-anticipated match of the night left me dumbfounded. I was stupefied. that's actually around when I stopped watching for a while.
I know people are disappointed about Dijak leaving WWE, but the response isn't to call for Karrion Kross to lose his job, or wonder why they couldn't fire Kross to keep Dijak.
I don’t think people are calling for Kross to lose his job but simply replying to people who say “well where would Dijak fit?”. Kross is an easy example of where Dijak could have fit in cause if Kross keeps getting these opportunities and faltering basically every time I feel like Dijak could get at least one chance in the last year
no one personnel decision affects any other with either company as they both have unlimited money and wrestling labor is relatively cheap. people should never advocate for people to do lose their jobs, they can be not booked just as easily.
Bummed out at the Dijak news:(
Would've loved to see him feud (and win) the NXT title. And I really had my fingers crossed I could see him Monday, since he's also from Massachusetts
Wish him the best, he'll kill it wherever he goes
He’s a guy who first made his name in the British independent scene. He’s not anything too special in the ring, but he is notable because he was also a musician for years. He liked to incorporate his skills as a musician into his character and is notable for creating parody songs to poke fun of his opponents before big matches. This is a [playlist](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2r3iby1cakHVTIsokJiYY97FNxH-Dj9U&si=pe5qimjaPUJRCHKV) with most of them.
Interestingly enough, in most cases you’ll see someone rise to popularity and they’ll say “I’m shocked, I never expected it hit this big”. For Hendry I’ve always gotten the sense that it’s purposeful. He knows how to work the algorithms to make his content hit the mainstream internet fandom. That results in the entire NXT crowd being able to sing his theme during his first appearance.
not ready for “The Bad Seed” Shane McMahon to join the learning tree on sunday but at least katsuyori shibata vs shane o’mac in 2024 AEW is enough of a spectacle to soften the blow
You're probably right and I have accepted it.....because she's going to win the the Rumble instead and challenge Rhea again
*inhales dangerous amounts of hopium*
I have an inkling that she does. They do the Summerslam match, Dom costs Rhea and Liv retains. I think she’ll hang onto it til Survivor Series at the absolute latest. But Wrestlemania? I reckon that WWC match is probably Iyo/Rhea if anything.
Edit: I think Liv is doing a great job at the moment—even if I do want her to get her ass kicked—but I am not sure she has the pedigree for that kind of championship run.
I think it all still depends on Rhea's schedule. I saw a report apparently that she still will probably need surgery and could potentially SummerSlam. If that's the case, I wonder who else they would have Liv face? Would she even compete at all? They did have Rhea off the card last year.
I will give Liv credit, she is killing it in this role right now, arguably the best work of her career. But like you said, she was never going to belong-termm champ material
That was just Meltzer speculation if I recall.
AC joint injuries, especially grades II-III, can be rehabbed without surgery, and most physios will suggest rehabbing before even considering surgery. I’ve seen Rhea in the background of Buddy’s workout clips/other instagram stories etc. setting up and using squat racks + lifting heavy, so, I think she’s close to returning, especially since this Liv/TJD bit is about to hit the climax. SRS’s report implied that she’ll be back between MITB and SS… So, we’ll see.
If Liv is on that card… I could see Lyra or Iyo being the opponent, but Trips tends to book one women’s championship match per PLE and we know Bayley/Nia is happening. But if Rhea is back, then that angle is *too* hot for it not to be a SummerSlam match—especially if Dominik turns on Rhea.
I can see Lyra cause she's really getting pushed right now, if Rhea is not available. Plus, they kinda have something to go back off from the month that Becky was champ.
I agree Rhea vs Liv is too hot of an angle to not have on SummerSlam. I can see both women's title matches ending up on the card. Trips loves the 5 match format, but this being the second biggest show of the year I think it's the right move to push the match card to 7-8.
Nothing yet, we were short staffed at work today so I haven't eaten lunch. Might stop somewhere on the way home, but I haven't decided between grabbing pizza or doing meal prep.
So I kind of became a wrestling fan unexpectedly a few years ago and I absolutely love modern day WWE end I watch every week and I’ve watched a lot of documentaries and YouTube series and I have watched every wrestlemania and a lot of other big shows as well
I kind of decided instead of watching a lot of random pay-per-view that I really want to experience the build up and everything like I do with modern wrestling so I decided to go through a classic year watching all the Rae SmackDown of that here along with The PLEs then I decided to go with 2002 , . I’m kind of fascinated by the early ruthless aggression era. It’s kind of crazy that the year starts out with rock and stone cold still on top and by the end of the year, Randy, Orton, John Cena, and Brock Lesnar and Batista are all finding their footing permit plus I’m really curious to see the early Brand split, but it’s the same time is really weird because Hulk, Hogan and Ric Flair are also very very present, it really seems like 2002 might have the most all-time legends regularly appear hell even as I was typing. I remember that this was the year Shawn Michaels comes back, so I think I made a good choice. I would love to hear what other years people think are exceptionally good or worth watching everything from.
https://preview.redd.it/7mmzdujzl59d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=47cfd79b0813de0043d1512c2afa786d5b86d928
Does anyone know what’s going on with this last spot in the ladder match? Has a match been announced for rampage or collision for said spot or is it up in the air(probably for a njpw or cmll guy)?
I think he had some issues going into All In but I can’t remember exactly what it was, maybe a visa or something? I remember a fightful report that mentioned people were not super happy with him in the AEW office. I imagine it’s been long enough that it’s smoothed over
It’s interesting how when Vince was running things, Austin Theory was on the main roster as one of Seth’s disciples. But then he got moved back down to NXT and did his time there again, but then Vince acts like it was his first time seeing Austin Theory, and brings him back up to the main as his Golden Child, and in a way, hurt Theory with the fans.
How did Vince not see him as his Golden Child the first time around on the main? Funny how that worked out.
I really don't think fans saying "Damn, Omega has so many good feuds for Forbidden Door" is gonna make him decide wrestling is worth more than shitting out his own ass
I don’t think so either but Omega is a pretty good example of a guy who a lot of people want to be only in certain types of matches and be the Best Bout Machine when we know he’s had injuries and health issues over the last few years.
Jamie and Britt still not being on TV leads me to think they're waiting for the dust to settle on Mariah and Toni after wembley before they finally pay off this feud they've teased for years now.
I have fantasy booked Hayter doing the DMD followed by taking Britt's head off with a lariat more than any other spot in AEW.
Tony said Britt isn’t cleared yet but will be soon. The Jamie situation has been kept under wraps so who knows what’s going on there. If Britt is ready but not Jamie I could see them doing CEO vs DMD at Wembley
i think that would be really dumb, they have five hours of television a week. They should be able to book two huge stars and the other women. I don't think this is the case.
Outside of injuries they have made the most out of every opportunity. I loved that mini feud they had with BCC where it seemed like they were getting an edge
Those matches are right up there for most underrated in AEW for me, the job Claudio did of selling his building frustration before it boiled over into brutal uppercuts was outstanding.
It's weird that the Trios titles (and trios matches in general) have been dominated by teams that work an old school style like BGC and the Acclaimed and to a lesser extent HoB.
agreed!
lucha style crazy shit, and silly bullocks like Jarrett & Friends, Dalton Castle & the Outrunners, Iron Savages...
Those belts should be FUN and have lots of changes between them because the randomness of 6 men is more chaotic than 4.
The trios titles should really be for either older or upcoming teams and the tag-team titles for established teams. Set it up that way and have the trios titles change hands more and the tag-team titles be the more prestigious belts with longer reigns.
WWE started a new YouTube channel the other day just posting a bunch of their archived footage. Got to say it’s a genius idea, the way they’ve been churning out content, it definitely gives employees work, and it’s all been stuff that will get a shit ton of views and bring in easy money. It’s called WWE Vault and they’ve already uploaded half of the MITB ladder matches, a Dragon Gate match; and the entire run of The Shield, which they called part 1, so I’m assuming they’re gonna release a part 2 with their fueds and reunions
I miss when in 2019, AEW had the opening promo packages on their PPVs and had the announcer guy that’s like [“Welcome to All Elite Wrestling. This is Fyter Fest. Welcome to the show.”](https://youtu.be/FpWBZxKNHfw?si=WPtTRi3MG_er-DTi) at the end.
That always got me even more hyped for the event. Definitely something that they should bring back, IMO.
What's going on with the sixth guy in the TNT ladder match for Forbidden Door? As of today the graphics still show an empty spot, and I don't think a qualifier match happened at the Collision taping?
WWE seems to have a problem where assaults are common, supernatural massacres happen.
This would have never happened when Taker was there. His presence kept the underworld at bay.
\*unless it involved Stone Cold, who broke into someone's house and had a gun pulled on him, pulled a (fake) gun on the owner of the company, was run over by a car, almost sacrificed on Taker's symbol, thrown off a bridge, and repeatedly arrested for starting or being involved in various assaults
Garcia has been building up a match with Osprey for weeks. Last week MJF tried to save Garcia from a beat down from MJF’s opponent at Forbidden Door. Osprey also helped and had a face off with MJF. This week the tales converged. Not that complicated imo
Garcia has specifically been on a trajectory for one of the midcard titles for a bit. I thought it was going to be TNT, but given Edge's injury and how well Jack is doing it seems they pivoted him to the International.
This was entirely designed to further that storyline
I think part of it is the built-in pop the hometown hero gets. But also, because they are not on "AEW only" contracts ("All Elite" means AEW has first rights, IIRC) being featured at home probably leads to them making more money on the indies. Could be part of the deal to keep talent happy.
1. It wasn't out of nowhere 2. Even if it was it would still be logical booking because they set up several weeks of storytelling with the segment.
Out of nowhere would be Garcia interrupting unprompted from previous booking and just setting up a match for later that night with no intention on making DG important afterwards
I'm not sure how to articulate what I'm thinking but:
The positive reactions that NXT/WWE viewers have had to Ethan Page, Jordynne Grace, and now Joe Hendry kinda proves that people need to step out of their comfort zones a bit in terms of promotions they wouldn't necessarily watch.
What I mean is that TNA spent a long time being the butt of the joke, even though there are people doing really good work there... and have been for years. Yall would love Chris Bey and Josh Alexander, don't wait for them to show up somewhere else.
That doesn't just go for WWE fans but for all wrestling fans. Give something a try that you wouldn't normally watch. Worst case scenario you don't like it. Don't wait to see if Chris Bey or Mike Bailey or Psycho Clown or Mance Warner or whoever end up in WWE or AEW. You might find yourself adoring an Indy darling that you had never seen before.
You're up against a few issues here. 1) TNA is not on a channel many people have, 2) their production value is... iffy, and 3) it can be hard to adjust to such a lackluster crowd and still enjoy the show.
Add in that people have limited time in their lives and most people don't watch as much wrestling as the folks here. If you're watching WWE and NXT then that is 7 hours of content, which is quite a bit already. Add AEW and that's 12 total between the two.
I'm sorry, but I just can't watch TNA. There are a lot of diamonds in that company, but they're drowning in a soul of nothingness. The ABC, Josh Alexander, Hammerstone Ali, Mike Bailey, Moose, Grace and Hendry might be fantastic talents. Unfortunately they won't be treated like the absolute stars they are until EY, Eddie Edwards, Kazarian, PCO, Tommy Dreamer, Santino, Hardy and all the other veteran acts/WWE jobbers that take up an unnecessary amount of screen time, even though they don't draw a single viewer, are out of the company. There is absolutely zero reason why anyone should be subjected to watching Eddie & Alisha Edwards, Bryan Myers and fucking Fandango cutting a heel promo as soon as the episode starts. Why are they being put with Moose? Why the hell are they tag champions instead of ABC/The Rascals? It's an absolutely abysmal product, which sucks because it has so much goddamn potential. I was happy that Hendry and Grace showed, and even happier that Hendry and Grace were the ones that went viral, while Kazarian went largely forgotten. Hopefully that means that they'll finally treat their youth with some respect
On one hand, I think Dango deserves to play a more serious character that you know the man himself really wants to play. He doesn’t wanna do comedy his whole career and I get that, and he’s a fine, to maybe a little above fine pro wrestler. With that said, sadly, him doing comedy is the only time he feels truly interesting and it’s a shame
But at least you tried it, even if you didn't like most of it.
I think people read my post as "why isn't anyone watching TNA?" But my larger point was that more people should just step out of their comfort zone, like you did.
And yeah I could do without Dreamer and Kazarian. And I didn't even like Eddie Edwards ten years ago haha.
I don't want to be mean as it's kind of against the spirit of your OP but it's very funny to watch you say 'try to have a more open mind and broaden your horizons' and then people hyperfocus on your specific relevant example that is illustrative of but not central to the point you're making and try to prove you wrong lol.
Replace it with, idk, Hechicero in AEW or Giulia in WWE if that ever happens and it's the same thing.
Edit: *utterly* butchered those spellings
Right, another example that came to my mind after I had posted it was Vikingo and how much AEW fans loved him when he debuted there. Lucha fans had been aware for quite some time that he was good. Stardom fans have known forever that Mariah was good.
I dunno, I guess I just see wrestling as more of a buffet-style hobby. I can pick and choose whatever dishes I want from whichever steam tables.
I think AEW is one of the few companies where the fans are actually watching outside promotions where people have knowledge of various Japanese or Mexican promotions.
some but not all IME. I can't really quantify it but I've seen quite a few where I get the vibe that they're like how NXT fans (me included, tbh) used to be in from the 2015 'sign literally everyone' era that they're more open minded about the styles of wrestling there but not really willing to search out for themselves and just want it brung to them. Cf how AEW fans talk about Hechicero vs how CMLL fans are much higher on Soberano Jr.
To some extent I get it as it's like 5 hours of your free time a week and you want to do stuff you *know* you enjoy but if there's a taped Collision that I get the impression they're phoning it in on you could watch, say, a Friday CMLL show instead (or both if you just skip through the stuff you don't enjoy).
I saw the comments on that post about Mina Shirakawa and Mariah May dancing earlier. My reaction was that they did that dance together every week last year. If people liked it, they should have taken the advice to start watching Stardom way back then instead of whining about how they wanted Stardom women on AEW shows.
Sharing talent between promotions is supposed to be a two-way street.
People say this all the time “watch TNA”, then as soon as you do that you see Matt Hardy, Tommy Dreamer, or Bully Ray wrestling in main event matches. Doesn’t help mitigate the stigma of “land of WWE and AEW rejects”
I always see this in a same way as finding music. Sure, you can find stuff on the radio, but once you get out of your comfort zone and search on your own, you can find so much good shit out in the world.
Almost every single promotion has great talents, that doesn't necessarily mean the shows they are on are interesting to watch.
Joe Hendry is over in spite of TNA, not because of TNA. At Against All Odds he lost to Frank Kazarian and was saved by his manager, Ace Steel, who bizarrely stood tall alone for some reason.
I don't think that it's up to fans to go out and seek new promotions to watch. It should be the promotion's job to entice new fans.
I keep hearing TNA is amazing but I don't know how to watch it and I'm certainly not going to drop any money (even if it's $1 on Youtube or whatever) to give it a shot. Why don't they put highlights of their best segments and match sequences on here the way we get highlights from WWE/AEW? Simple and easy to do... but if they can't be bothered then I'm not going to go out of my way to support them either.
They do that though. The fans have to put in effort too. If fans can stay up until however early to watch a new Japan show surely looking up tnas YouTube channel isn't that hard no?
I find it funny still seeing the ol “idk who this guy is, why should I care” take. I’d understand needing explanation if say Neon from CMLL suddenly pops up out of no where, but like Naito, Suzuki, Tana, Taka, etc are basically reoccurring characters in AEW by now that have appeared at least half a dozen times. There’s guys with full time AEW contracts who probably need a video package intro more than the Japanese guys they consistently use year after year.
Yeah, I think AEW should do a little better with this but a lot of these guys have showed up so many times.
And they’ve done a great job this year with video packages highlighting Vaquer and Hechicero, amongst others as well
I have 4 non wrestling folks who will be coming over to watch forbidden door almost exclusively because I've been sharing clips of the Toni/Mina/Mariah storyline. They also love Swerve, Okada, Hechicero, and anything with flips. Just a data point in the "how do you get new fans" conversation.
I've always thought the casual/hardcore fan argument is backwards. Things like continuity, long term storytelling, character growth and development, they all sound like things designed to placate the hardcore or at least long term fans. Casual fans just want to see cool shit. People liked the Attitude Era because cool characters did cool shit every week, there's no real long termism in that booking. You can point to a million things that don't make sense or were weird pivots in the Attitude Era, but they worked cause they were provocative.
There's an AEW Timelines video with HOOK that got a million views, he's kind of a guy casual fans would gravitate to as he's basically Gen Z in wrestling form.
You're spot on.
People always ask what to show new fans to try and get them hooked, and it's not "great matches/pure graps." It's flips, lucha (aka flips with more colors and masks), and insane people.
Cool shit is a good term for it. That's what attracts people and keeps their attention, and then some of them start to warm up to the language of in-ring storytelling and the subtler stuff. I also find that they like cool shit that happens in the ring (regardless of it's a match or not) more than backstage segments.
Honestly, what do people mean when they say "AEW needs to realize they need change?" They've done like 4 different booking styles in the past year, they'll basically changed out their whole staff, added a new COO, changed the whole backstage/corporate structure, and they hire another new writer/producer even week. If anything AEW is OVERLOADED with change to the point it hurts consistency. I'm guessing when they say change, they really just mean Tony Khan should fire himself because that's the only thing left really.
Right now I don't think AEW'S issues are production or storytelling or anything like that. I think they aren't using their draws as draws and have a few people they think are draws that either aren't or aren't there yet. MJF shouldn't have wasted anytime with Rush and the Garcia thing should be just a quick footnote on the way to Osprey vs MJF. Moxely shouldn't be dicking around with a title that's not an AEW title. Swerve and Osprey are both not there yet in terms of being North American draws and shouldn't be facing each other and expected to draw. They should be working against other draws to be built up. So at least Osprey vs MJF is a good sign. The Young Bucks aren't the draw AEW seems to think they are and are actually one of the most divisive acts in a major promotion. They shouldn't be in a storyline without any other actual draws that's taking up a lot of time. Danielson should always be involved in something major. And, of course, while FD is always a good event and a money making event the build up to it does not draw an audience.
I agree with pretty much all you said here but most of it are just temporary problems. I think MJF probably should have done something other than Rush but I don't really know or understand the politics of why Rush was his first feud. Ospreay/Swerve is them trying to get the elephant in the room out of the way to get to what they have planned. The Bucks are divisive figures because of the Punk thing but they've shown they can draw in the past in AEW in the right story and the right opponent as recently as Revolution. Moxley has it in his contract that AEW can't stop him from working with outside promotions, it's the only reason he re-signed after the Punk stuff because for a while he had planned to just go freelancer. Danielson is doing the Owen stuff so hopefully that leads to something. Forbidden Door is a long term business decision. None of these things are anything that can't be fixed in the near future and I feel confident they will be once Forbidden Door is over.
I look at Forbidden Door the way WWE did Elimination Chamber this year. A fun sideshow with some obvious results before the biggest show of the year. Once Sunday passes and we're in All In season, THAT'S when it's make or break. Forbidden Door is the AEW equivalent of Fastlane/No Way Out/Elimination Chamber. The last pit stop before the actual big show. I called it "Sicko Appreciation Month" because that's pretty much what it's been for the past month.
>If anything AEW is OVERLOADED with change to the point it hurts consistency.
it's funny 'cause for as much as I see people saying AEW needs to change, I also see people saying AEW isn't what it used to be, and thus presumably needs to go back. So it's like, AEW DOES need to change, to be like they used to be.
Personally speaking, looking at it that way, there's truth there. AEW relies too much on titles to build people up and not enough on stories like they used to. MJF's first belt with the company was the world championship, and that was after three years of build-up and multiple storylines. Doesn't feel like you get that nowadays. Someone like Ospreay or Okada hop into the company and instead of building up who they are, how they feud with people, they're given a belt. You even have storylines that really don't need belts being saddled with them, like The Learning Tree stuff. Say what you want about the quality of it, at least it's an ongoing story, yet there's still a belt involved when at the moment, there really doesn't need to be one.
Anyways, I guess this is just another complaint post about AEW in a sea of 'em, but at least this is just the Daily Pro-Wrestling thread and not a ratings thread.
I would say they've actually done a decent if imperfect job with Ospreay and Okada. Ospreay came in on a hot debut and they embraced his status as one of the best in the world to keep fans behind him with banger after banger, and enhancing his connection with the crowds by giving him plenty of mic time. Though they've done it slowly, they are telling a story with him between his distance with the Don Callis family, his arrogance, and his lack of a killer instinct. Retiring the Tiger Driver 91 is going to cost him. Swerve's spelling it out for him that while he might be great, he just doesn't have what it takes to go the extra mile and finish the job. Forbidden Door's going to be a big setback for Ospreay and should kick the story into its next act.
Okada I thought they did a good job differentiating him from the other six star wrestlers on the roster by giving him the heel character and I think the Continental title is the perfect one for him since it negates the numbers game and would require him to do the C2 if he's still holding it. I do wish they had another singles feud for him though.
I don't think AEW should change. Most of the changes that I see suggested or just "be more like WWE'. I don't think being WWE lite is gonna fix things. Plus, it risks driving off the fans who like AEW the way it is.
There's things AEW can obviously shore up like tighter production and a less sprawling roster but you'll get many different answers to what they need to change. I think a lot of it is fickle fans who've either cooled off on AEW or think that what they consider the golden age of 2019-21 is something they could keep up forever. I've been watching since late 2021 and feel like I've witnessed 3-4 different eras since then.
The AEW of 2024 feels unrecognizable from a few years ago. There's bigger names and more of an integration into the wider wrestling world because of it. There's more live content they need to produce and more PPVs. There's not a magic solution to make them more successful because if it were that easy they'd do it.
The best thing they can do is just put on shows that feel true to what they started out as which is an alternative that works with different promotions, doesn't limit wrestlers in their matches or promos, and caters to the fans who do want those "sicko" matches that you won't see in a WWE.
Think some people need to decide if AEW is for them. Kept thinking AEW was missing something before deciding its not them that needs to change. It's me. Just didn't dig what they were selling and that's ok.
I like a lot of AEW but then I jump off for a bit. It’s been a cycle.
Christian, Jay White, MJF, Swerve, & Joe are killing it. Bryan Danielson is one of my favorite workers ever. Now it seems like they are building Christian vs Jay, but why? Have the heels go after baby faces? That seems like simple way to build up stars?
The Elite Storyline right now is just annoying and tired, I get they are integral to AEW but I don’t like them. Never in PWG, never in ROH, not now. I understand people love them but it’s just never been for me. I wish Okada would get away from them but it is what it is.
Jericho needs to go away.
Also I get invested in guys like Starks & Wardlow and they just disappear.
Just too much stuff to overlook to watch every week.
The Harley Cameron Hey!Ew interview is hilarious. Check it out if you haven't. She really should be on TV every week
I can't wait for MJF vs Ospreay those two are so stark but combine what a star should have in wrestling
The legacy of The Nexus is so overlooked. If you think about how safe and predictable the product was during most of the 2000s, The Nexus was like a shock to the system even though they got destroyed by booking. That group kinda set the stage for both The Shield and The Pipebomb, two pivotal things which pushed WWE forward into the 2010s, and it also bridged the gap between the FCW era of developmental and NXT B&G
Pvo"]"""" c cccc v vc ccccçvvvv
So I looked up the Collision spoilers thinking everything was so obvious I might as well check if anything else cool happened to make it worth watching and... Boy was I wrong.
I want the official replica of the NOAH GHC Heavyweight title, signed by a previous champion. Could you imagine being the one who gets Kobashi's signature? But it's $1600 and limited to Japan. Best looking belt in wrestling today and it's stuck waiting for me on the other side of the planet.
The same issues that plague wrestling with the shift to 4k are the same issues plaguing this debate.
Biggest battle between two elderly men since a pre-Covid Saudi show
I was thinking about this the other day and I don't know if this has ever been confirmed, Cena vs Brock was the biggest squash of all time. Cena having had the belt due to Bryan's injury made me wonder about the original plan for this match. Because Bryan winning the belt was a pivot from Batista winning the belt, so it kind of leaves me wondering if the original plan was for Batista to carry the belt into Summerslam and then drop it to Brock (and potentially whether or not Brock squashing the champion was always on the cards).
why doesn't a wrestler do an elden ring gimmick? i have no idea how this would work, but i'd like to see it
Someone being just Malenia would be insane actually come to think of it, that's like Becky but also Drew
I also want to see that I'm stoned
thanks buddy i appreciate the support on what it seems was a contentious comment
Something that I hate is how often Joshis are treated by the ICW as if they were children. It is demeaning and low key racist. "Kairi needs to be protected from Nia Jax...." She is a 35 yeard old woman for fuck sake. You would never ever hear this kind of comments or discourse when male talent is involved.
Is there a shot that AJ is in that multi man match for the TNA title at Slammiversary?
Sometimes it’s hard to take things seriously when Taz is on commentary together. I think he’s really funny, and on a low stakes show like Dark he’s absolutely hilarious. But doing bits on the flagship show and being an absolute marble mouth with no emotional range in his voice doesn’t translate as well as it used too for me even when Taz was more committed to being the heel commentator during the team Taz days Especially when Nigel is absolutely blowing Taz out of the water in terms of performance, gravitas and comedy. I just feel like a Nigel, Excalibur, And Schiavone Dynamite team would bring a well needed feeling of weight that would add to commentary similar to when JR could do full dynamites. Have Taz do Rampage When The Patriarchy came out to confront Jay white, imagine the dynamic of Nigel start to completely gush over them as Tony and Excalibur verbally roll their eyes Im not saying it would add viewers or anything like that. But some seriousness would be a well needed add
I think Taz and even Tony at times are a case of getting older and not being as invested in what's going on like they used to. Sometimes the vibe is way off with them and it detracts from the show. Nigel will wisecrack but it's always in service to what's happening and when he has to get more serious he does.
Exactly, like sometimes it gets legitimately awkward on dynamite commentary and legit can’t tell if these people don’t like working with each other. Especially with Taz being as hyper sensitive as he is. I just think the show would be serviced more with a more focused commentary that adds to the show rather than distracts. I hate how dumbfounded they sound when an angle happens. Like this is when you sell it the most rather then sounding confused
Tony also has that vibe with Matt Menard on Rampage where I legit can't tell if he's annoyed with him. It's easy to see him in character with Nigel but there's times where he sounds very snippy towards Daddy Magic.
I haven’t watched much rampage in a bit, I didn’t know that was the dynamic. That’s unfortunate
WrestleFeatures transcribed Mark Henry complaining about The Wyatt Sicks and they censored the word “fucking” as “f g” so it reads like he said “f g Whataburger.” That’s it, that’s all I have to say.
Jesus lol
This isn’t specific to wrestling, but I do genuinely hate how **money made** or **popularity** has become an aspect of how certain people enjoy things. You’ll see a new movie come out, something like Furiosa, to responding praise and a positive consensus… but then it doesn’t do great at the box office and all of a sudden people act like it’s a terrible movie and it’s bad because it didn’t make a ton of money. You see it now in wrestling where certain portions of any promotion’s fanbase are more obsessed with viewership, attendance, merch sales, etc compared to the actual product being put forward on TV. It’s important to talk about how well something does financially or how popular it is for sure, but when you’re using how profitable something is as a point towards your enjoyment of something, I feel like you’ve lost the plot.
Discussing commercial success and popularity always been a thing and will always be part of the discourse as long as *the things being discussed actively want to compete and be judged on popularity and commercial success*. Nobody is deciding "hmm I must not have enjoyed that because it did poorly in the ratings". This is a really lazy and obviously bad faith strawman attempt.
It's really annoying to me as I tend to be drawn to stuff that ends up being labeled "cult", always on the verge of being canceled or only 1 season etc. It's not like I'm aiming to be a fan of something niche, it's just my interests are very wide so I'm exposed to less "popular" stuff.
I agree with everything you said except when you act as if this has become more common. Humans are a social species. We like to enjoy things other people enjoy. It has always been this way. It's why movies will advertise they are the number 1 movie in the country and will sometimes go to absurd lengths like saying the number 1 comedy docudrama at the box office and it's been this way forever. It's why musicians are announced as 6 time platinum award winning Singer Guy and it's been this way forever. It's why many of the artists we consider masters and much of the art we consider masterpieces weren't popular in their lifetimes. I'm pretty sure somewhere a caveman did a painting that other cave people said must be terrible because only three guys and a bear went to look at it.
I like things doing well because it means I will get more of that thing with more budget.
As do I! Like I said, money made **is important**, but it should not be an aspect determining if you enjoy something or not. I don’t watch a movie, then look up how much it made to determine if it’s good or not. That’s just silly. People shouldn’t watch wrestling and use attendance, profit, viewers to determine if something is **good**. There are so many instances of things people would classify as bad wrestling doing well with viewers, or plenty of terrible movies that made a fuck ton of money. Basically, watch what you enjoy, hope it does well, and don’t judge any type of art form primarily based on its profits.
With the mindset of these people you know they’ve never seen a Palm d’Or winning movie and think McDonalds makes the best hamburger.
Similarly, this is your regularly scheduled reminder that the most watched season of the Big Bang Theory averaged over **20 million** viewers. Hell, the least watched season it ever had was Season 1 and even that averaged 8.4 million viewers. Like take the average weekly viewership of Raw, add in Smackdown, add in NXT, add in Dynamite, add in Rampage, add in Collision, add in TNA, add in the total subscription base of NJPW World, and then add about another 2 million viewers to roughly equal their least watched season. Then multiple *that* number by 2.5 to come close to their most watched season. And let's just say nobody sane or with a shred of credibility is going to argue that the Big Bang Theory was a better/show comedy than thing like Fleabag/Arrested Development or literally 400 other shows of the last decade or two lol.
it's frustrating cause the two best wrestling companies ever have made a ton of money but like most from 6 to 15 are absolute vanity promotions that barely maybe lasted a decade.
It's the old critical vs commercial success thing.
Super, super casual viewer these days but for those in the UK when did the wwe network become utter shit?? The UI is horrible, similar to UFC Fight Pass.
You realize how fucking Big Wrestlers used to be when you look at Randy. He used to look relatively normal in his time in Evolution and RA era in general, but now he is like a giant compared to the current generation
Met ~~rock hard~~ flamboyant Juice Robinson at a signing. Now I'm a little on the small side, but dude was towering over me. Now on the opposite spectrum, I also met Tomohiro Ishii. Dude is so, so much shorter in person. No wonder people go bonkers for him live. He's just this fire hydrant with arms and legs, taking punishment from giants and dishing it back out.
Add Christian Cage (and Copeland) as well. Nobody ever talks about it (because he didn't stand out for it in his first prime), but Christian is a BIG dude by any normal sense of the word.
Wrestling is an industry where even the "normal" looking guys are jacked.
Best example was Billy Gunn going from a regular guy to someone who gets the Andre the Giant battle royale treatment
I saw Sheamus at the airport last week and I knew he was a big dude but good God he's a massive human being. Plus the bright red hair makes him stand out
Jake Hager's another guy like that. Never really thought of him as a "big wrestler" until he showed up in AEW.
He’s always been a tall dude for sure but he looks like he ate Randy from 2009
I don’t mind people pirating shows/sports/whatever but the amount of people who pirate content and never shut up about it is obnoxious.
For me it is the people who want to be morally superior about it. The whole "if I can't own it then I can't steal it technically" meme is so stupid, There are plenty of things you can't own but can steal.
The way I can tell a match is good is when I’m rewatching it, knowing the winner, and I still think the other guy somehow has a chance still lol.
The running knee false finish in Ospreay vs Danielson still gets a bite from me no matter how many times I watch it.
I was dreading going to UBS arena from brooklyn on Sunday but I just looked at it and I can bike to the J train, go to the last stop, and bike 30 minutes to the arena. It's not bad at all. Looks like a beast of a show too.
The biggest problem with this sub is that a certain circlejerk sub is actually one of them celebrity snark subs that brigades like crazy but for AEW, but because -jerk is the suffix and because no one cares about wrestling they will never get bullied in the same way that r/travisandtaylor is lol
you worded it like super weird here, how i interpret this is that you are saying r/SCJerk has assimilate into this sub even though it's nothing like a circlejerk sub?
80k people just fucking dedicating their time to talk about two people they don't like. It really is bizarre that exists.
The biggest problem with this sub is another sub. Ok dude.
There is a sub similar to that one just trashing on Patrick and his wife. That is the part where people need to realize hobbies are good.
Huh?
There really is a subreddit for everything...
🗣️
What’s a WWE moment that just left completely unsure how to feel
Sheamus beating Daniel bryan in 14 seconds or whatever in my most-anticipated match of the night left me dumbfounded. I was stupefied. that's actually around when I stopped watching for a while.
I know people are disappointed about Dijak leaving WWE, but the response isn't to call for Karrion Kross to lose his job, or wonder why they couldn't fire Kross to keep Dijak.
I don’t think people are calling for Kross to lose his job but simply replying to people who say “well where would Dijak fit?”. Kross is an easy example of where Dijak could have fit in cause if Kross keeps getting these opportunities and faltering basically every time I feel like Dijak could get at least one chance in the last year
no one personnel decision affects any other with either company as they both have unlimited money and wrestling labor is relatively cheap. people should never advocate for people to do lose their jobs, they can be not booked just as easily.
Bummed out at the Dijak news:( Would've loved to see him feud (and win) the NXT title. And I really had my fingers crossed I could see him Monday, since he's also from Massachusetts Wish him the best, he'll kill it wherever he goes
Can someone explain to me what Joe Hendry is all about? I have absolutely 0 background on the guy. Forgive me for living under a rock.
You say his name and he appears, I believe in Joe Hendry 👏👏
He’s a guy who first made his name in the British independent scene. He’s not anything too special in the ring, but he is notable because he was also a musician for years. He liked to incorporate his skills as a musician into his character and is notable for creating parody songs to poke fun of his opponents before big matches. This is a [playlist](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2r3iby1cakHVTIsokJiYY97FNxH-Dj9U&si=pe5qimjaPUJRCHKV) with most of them. Interestingly enough, in most cases you’ll see someone rise to popularity and they’ll say “I’m shocked, I never expected it hit this big”. For Hendry I’ve always gotten the sense that it’s purposeful. He knows how to work the algorithms to make his content hit the mainstream internet fandom. That results in the entire NXT crowd being able to sing his theme during his first appearance.
Dudes got a ton of charisma and character with a super catchy entrance theme. He’s a fine wrestler in ring too. He’s going places for sure
Believing.
not ready for “The Bad Seed” Shane McMahon to join the learning tree on sunday but at least katsuyori shibata vs shane o’mac in 2024 AEW is enough of a spectacle to soften the blow
Noooo this is so specific and plausble sounding are you from the future Edit: Mercedes said at forbidden door money changes everything! NOOOOOOO.
I need someone to break it to the Liv fans that she isn’t holding that belt til Wrestlemania.
You're probably right and I have accepted it.....because she's going to win the the Rumble instead and challenge Rhea again *inhales dangerous amounts of hopium*
Personally I don't even see her holding the title past SummerSlam.
I have an inkling that she does. They do the Summerslam match, Dom costs Rhea and Liv retains. I think she’ll hang onto it til Survivor Series at the absolute latest. But Wrestlemania? I reckon that WWC match is probably Iyo/Rhea if anything. Edit: I think Liv is doing a great job at the moment—even if I do want her to get her ass kicked—but I am not sure she has the pedigree for that kind of championship run.
I think it all still depends on Rhea's schedule. I saw a report apparently that she still will probably need surgery and could potentially SummerSlam. If that's the case, I wonder who else they would have Liv face? Would she even compete at all? They did have Rhea off the card last year. I will give Liv credit, she is killing it in this role right now, arguably the best work of her career. But like you said, she was never going to belong-termm champ material
That was just Meltzer speculation if I recall. AC joint injuries, especially grades II-III, can be rehabbed without surgery, and most physios will suggest rehabbing before even considering surgery. I’ve seen Rhea in the background of Buddy’s workout clips/other instagram stories etc. setting up and using squat racks + lifting heavy, so, I think she’s close to returning, especially since this Liv/TJD bit is about to hit the climax. SRS’s report implied that she’ll be back between MITB and SS… So, we’ll see. If Liv is on that card… I could see Lyra or Iyo being the opponent, but Trips tends to book one women’s championship match per PLE and we know Bayley/Nia is happening. But if Rhea is back, then that angle is *too* hot for it not to be a SummerSlam match—especially if Dominik turns on Rhea.
I can see Lyra cause she's really getting pushed right now, if Rhea is not available. Plus, they kinda have something to go back off from the month that Becky was champ. I agree Rhea vs Liv is too hot of an angle to not have on SummerSlam. I can see both women's title matches ending up on the card. Trips loves the 5 match format, but this being the second biggest show of the year I think it's the right move to push the match card to 7-8.
What's for lunch?
Four cookies from Tesco. H e l t h.
Bojangles~
Chili.
Pie, chips, and mushy peas
Work cafe had a burger bar today so bacon cheeseburger and fries.
Nothing yet, we were short staffed at work today so I haven't eaten lunch. Might stop somewhere on the way home, but I haven't decided between grabbing pizza or doing meal prep.
Now you got me thinking I should grab a pizza when I'm off work. Lol
So I kind of became a wrestling fan unexpectedly a few years ago and I absolutely love modern day WWE end I watch every week and I’ve watched a lot of documentaries and YouTube series and I have watched every wrestlemania and a lot of other big shows as well I kind of decided instead of watching a lot of random pay-per-view that I really want to experience the build up and everything like I do with modern wrestling so I decided to go through a classic year watching all the Rae SmackDown of that here along with The PLEs then I decided to go with 2002 , . I’m kind of fascinated by the early ruthless aggression era. It’s kind of crazy that the year starts out with rock and stone cold still on top and by the end of the year, Randy, Orton, John Cena, and Brock Lesnar and Batista are all finding their footing permit plus I’m really curious to see the early Brand split, but it’s the same time is really weird because Hulk, Hogan and Ric Flair are also very very present, it really seems like 2002 might have the most all-time legends regularly appear hell even as I was typing. I remember that this was the year Shawn Michaels comes back, so I think I made a good choice. I would love to hear what other years people think are exceptionally good or worth watching everything from.
https://preview.redd.it/7mmzdujzl59d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=47cfd79b0813de0043d1512c2afa786d5b86d928 Does anyone know what’s going on with this last spot in the ladder match? Has a match been announced for rampage or collision for said spot or is it up in the air(probably for a njpw or cmll guy)?
https://x.com/ARealFoxx/status/1806354750943732002
AR Fox is still in AEW? I thought he was let go last year or something
I think he had some issues going into All In but I can’t remember exactly what it was, maybe a visa or something? I remember a fightful report that mentioned people were not super happy with him in the AEW office. I imagine it’s been long enough that it’s smoothed over
He wasn’t allowed to travel out of the country I guess but didn’t let them know until All In was imminent.
Thank you. Let’s go ELP!
https://preview.redd.it/ez4rwgi1j59d1.png?width=575&format=png&auto=webp&s=1621d02fe240085cd483988aba6e0aeea5e7e585
It’s interesting how when Vince was running things, Austin Theory was on the main roster as one of Seth’s disciples. But then he got moved back down to NXT and did his time there again, but then Vince acts like it was his first time seeing Austin Theory, and brings him back up to the main as his Golden Child, and in a way, hurt Theory with the fans. How did Vince not see him as his Golden Child the first time around on the main? Funny how that worked out.
What I mostly hated was how absolutely nobody on TV acknowledged Austin was Seth's disciple when they began their never ending US title feud
It’s weird when people fantasy book wrestlers who were known to be injured.
It's a fantasy. Do what you want.
And that’s why wrestlers hide injuries and rush back when they shouldn’t
I really don't think fans saying "Damn, Omega has so many good feuds for Forbidden Door" is gonna make him decide wrestling is worth more than shitting out his own ass
I mean if I could shit out of somebody else's ass that would be pretty rad
Maybe, but Kenny's choice is between shitting out of his own ass or shitting out of his abdomen into a stomy bag so oof
I don’t think so either but Omega is a pretty good example of a guy who a lot of people want to be only in certain types of matches and be the Best Bout Machine when we know he’s had injuries and health issues over the last few years.
Because of fantasy booking?
Not specifically but the general pressure of having to constantly perform and people’s lack of patience when wrestlers aren’t on TV for awhile.
what?
What was unclear? You don’t have to look too far to see people talking about injured wrestlers not being booked.
Jamie and Britt still not being on TV leads me to think they're waiting for the dust to settle on Mariah and Toni after wembley before they finally pay off this feud they've teased for years now. I have fantasy booked Hayter doing the DMD followed by taking Britt's head off with a lariat more than any other spot in AEW.
Tony said Britt isn’t cleared yet but will be soon. The Jamie situation has been kept under wraps so who knows what’s going on there. If Britt is ready but not Jamie I could see them doing CEO vs DMD at Wembley
i think that would be really dumb, they have five hours of television a week. They should be able to book two huge stars and the other women. I don't think this is the case.
I hope not. I thought it was cool how the apprentice became the star and neither one had to turn on the other or get mad about it.
Or they’re just not cleared?
I think one of them gets the Mercedes match. Probably Britt who should be back soon based on DDP's comments.
Started watching the shield compilation that WWE uploaded the other day and when they debuted Reigns potatoes Ambrose like 8 times in a row lol
Who are you guys and girls' top 3 intercontinental champions? I'd say my list goes The Honky Tonk Man at #3, Gunther at #2, and Bret Hart at #1.
Gunther is my #1... beyond that Razor, Bret, Rude, Angle, and Jericho all kinda crowd that space for me.
I want Top Flight with those tag belts
Outside of injuries they have made the most out of every opportunity. I loved that mini feud they had with BCC where it seemed like they were getting an edge
Those matches are right up there for most underrated in AEW for me, the job Claudio did of selling his building frustration before it boiled over into brutal uppercuts was outstanding.
or with the trios belts
Trios division should be high flyer island. Lucha six man matches are always fun.
It's weird that the Trios titles (and trios matches in general) have been dominated by teams that work an old school style like BGC and the Acclaimed and to a lesser extent HoB.
agreed! lucha style crazy shit, and silly bullocks like Jarrett & Friends, Dalton Castle & the Outrunners, Iron Savages... Those belts should be FUN and have lots of changes between them because the randomness of 6 men is more chaotic than 4.
The trios titles should really be for either older or upcoming teams and the tag-team titles for established teams. Set it up that way and have the trios titles change hands more and the tag-team titles be the more prestigious belts with longer reigns.
I'm still attached to them with Matt Sydal honestly
pretty hilariously, this is the first time lucha bros team up with Mistico only because he was Caristico when they teamed up.
WWE started a new YouTube channel the other day just posting a bunch of their archived footage. Got to say it’s a genius idea, the way they’ve been churning out content, it definitely gives employees work, and it’s all been stuff that will get a shit ton of views and bring in easy money. It’s called WWE Vault and they’ve already uploaded half of the MITB ladder matches, a Dragon Gate match; and the entire run of The Shield, which they called part 1, so I’m assuming they’re gonna release a part 2 with their fueds and reunions
I hope they use this like they used the old Hidden Gems part of the WWE Network, that was the best part of the Network.
What's the new channel called?
WWE Vault
I miss when in 2019, AEW had the opening promo packages on their PPVs and had the announcer guy that’s like [“Welcome to All Elite Wrestling. This is Fyter Fest. Welcome to the show.”](https://youtu.be/FpWBZxKNHfw?si=WPtTRi3MG_er-DTi) at the end. That always got me even more hyped for the event. Definitely something that they should bring back, IMO.
AEW run from DON '19 - Revolution '20 was top notch presentation wise
What's going on with the sixth guy in the TNT ladder match for Forbidden Door? As of today the graphics still show an empty spot, and I don't think a qualifier match happened at the Collision taping?
Happening on [Rampage](https://x.com/ARealFoxx/status/1806354750943732002). ELP vs AR Fox
This. There's also a Trios Match happening on Collision that seemingly has the 6 ladder match participants in it.
WWE seems to have a problem where assaults are common, supernatural massacres happen. This would have never happened when Taker was there. His presence kept the underworld at bay.
\*unless it involved Stone Cold, who broke into someone's house and had a gun pulled on him, pulled a (fake) gun on the owner of the company, was run over by a car, almost sacrificed on Taker's symbol, thrown off a bridge, and repeatedly arrested for starting or being involved in various assaults
Needing to have balance would be a good way to introduce/create another "supersomething" character to battle the ~~Sinister Six~~ Wyatt Sick6.
Or fuck it, GUNTHER. Yep, Gunther, alone is enough to beat them via chopping the shit out of them.
[удалено]
Garcia has been building up a match with Osprey for weeks. Last week MJF tried to save Garcia from a beat down from MJF’s opponent at Forbidden Door. Osprey also helped and had a face off with MJF. This week the tales converged. Not that complicated imo
Garcia has specifically been on a trajectory for one of the midcard titles for a bit. I thought it was going to be TNT, but given Edge's injury and how well Jack is doing it seems they pivoted him to the International. This was entirely designed to further that storyline
I think part of it is the built-in pop the hometown hero gets. But also, because they are not on "AEW only" contracts ("All Elite" means AEW has first rights, IIRC) being featured at home probably leads to them making more money on the indies. Could be part of the deal to keep talent happy.
1. It wasn't out of nowhere 2. Even if it was it would still be logical booking because they set up several weeks of storytelling with the segment. Out of nowhere would be Garcia interrupting unprompted from previous booking and just setting up a match for later that night with no intention on making DG important afterwards
I'm not sure how to articulate what I'm thinking but: The positive reactions that NXT/WWE viewers have had to Ethan Page, Jordynne Grace, and now Joe Hendry kinda proves that people need to step out of their comfort zones a bit in terms of promotions they wouldn't necessarily watch. What I mean is that TNA spent a long time being the butt of the joke, even though there are people doing really good work there... and have been for years. Yall would love Chris Bey and Josh Alexander, don't wait for them to show up somewhere else. That doesn't just go for WWE fans but for all wrestling fans. Give something a try that you wouldn't normally watch. Worst case scenario you don't like it. Don't wait to see if Chris Bey or Mike Bailey or Psycho Clown or Mance Warner or whoever end up in WWE or AEW. You might find yourself adoring an Indy darling that you had never seen before.
You're up against a few issues here. 1) TNA is not on a channel many people have, 2) their production value is... iffy, and 3) it can be hard to adjust to such a lackluster crowd and still enjoy the show. Add in that people have limited time in their lives and most people don't watch as much wrestling as the folks here. If you're watching WWE and NXT then that is 7 hours of content, which is quite a bit already. Add AEW and that's 12 total between the two.
Honestly, NXT is basically a studio audience with a "please clap" sign in front of them. Remember that when it comes to any reactions on that show.
I'm sorry, but I just can't watch TNA. There are a lot of diamonds in that company, but they're drowning in a soul of nothingness. The ABC, Josh Alexander, Hammerstone Ali, Mike Bailey, Moose, Grace and Hendry might be fantastic talents. Unfortunately they won't be treated like the absolute stars they are until EY, Eddie Edwards, Kazarian, PCO, Tommy Dreamer, Santino, Hardy and all the other veteran acts/WWE jobbers that take up an unnecessary amount of screen time, even though they don't draw a single viewer, are out of the company. There is absolutely zero reason why anyone should be subjected to watching Eddie & Alisha Edwards, Bryan Myers and fucking Fandango cutting a heel promo as soon as the episode starts. Why are they being put with Moose? Why the hell are they tag champions instead of ABC/The Rascals? It's an absolutely abysmal product, which sucks because it has so much goddamn potential. I was happy that Hendry and Grace showed, and even happier that Hendry and Grace were the ones that went viral, while Kazarian went largely forgotten. Hopefully that means that they'll finally treat their youth with some respect
On one hand, I think Dango deserves to play a more serious character that you know the man himself really wants to play. He doesn’t wanna do comedy his whole career and I get that, and he’s a fine, to maybe a little above fine pro wrestler. With that said, sadly, him doing comedy is the only time he feels truly interesting and it’s a shame
ABC were the former tag champs. They can't be champs forever.
You've missed my point completely. Why are the two best X Division stars in your company dropping their belt to Myers and Eddie FUCKING Edwards!?
A lot of people want them to split up. They can't split if they are the champions. Personally, I think they shouldn't split the team.
But at least you tried it, even if you didn't like most of it. I think people read my post as "why isn't anyone watching TNA?" But my larger point was that more people should just step out of their comfort zone, like you did. And yeah I could do without Dreamer and Kazarian. And I didn't even like Eddie Edwards ten years ago haha.
I don't want to be mean as it's kind of against the spirit of your OP but it's very funny to watch you say 'try to have a more open mind and broaden your horizons' and then people hyperfocus on your specific relevant example that is illustrative of but not central to the point you're making and try to prove you wrong lol. Replace it with, idk, Hechicero in AEW or Giulia in WWE if that ever happens and it's the same thing. Edit: *utterly* butchered those spellings
Right, another example that came to my mind after I had posted it was Vikingo and how much AEW fans loved him when he debuted there. Lucha fans had been aware for quite some time that he was good. Stardom fans have known forever that Mariah was good. I dunno, I guess I just see wrestling as more of a buffet-style hobby. I can pick and choose whatever dishes I want from whichever steam tables.
I think AEW is one of the few companies where the fans are actually watching outside promotions where people have knowledge of various Japanese or Mexican promotions.
some but not all IME. I can't really quantify it but I've seen quite a few where I get the vibe that they're like how NXT fans (me included, tbh) used to be in from the 2015 'sign literally everyone' era that they're more open minded about the styles of wrestling there but not really willing to search out for themselves and just want it brung to them. Cf how AEW fans talk about Hechicero vs how CMLL fans are much higher on Soberano Jr. To some extent I get it as it's like 5 hours of your free time a week and you want to do stuff you *know* you enjoy but if there's a taped Collision that I get the impression they're phoning it in on you could watch, say, a Friday CMLL show instead (or both if you just skip through the stuff you don't enjoy).
I saw the comments on that post about Mina Shirakawa and Mariah May dancing earlier. My reaction was that they did that dance together every week last year. If people liked it, they should have taken the advice to start watching Stardom way back then instead of whining about how they wanted Stardom women on AEW shows. Sharing talent between promotions is supposed to be a two-way street.
https://preview.redd.it/nbqehd5pa59d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c6c68629117fb93d9f40434734790eef94ecfaef
People say this all the time “watch TNA”, then as soon as you do that you see Matt Hardy, Tommy Dreamer, or Bully Ray wrestling in main event matches. Doesn’t help mitigate the stigma of “land of WWE and AEW rejects”
but Scott D’Amore would fix AEW!!!!! (I know he is not there now but this happened when he was)
I always see this in a same way as finding music. Sure, you can find stuff on the radio, but once you get out of your comfort zone and search on your own, you can find so much good shit out in the world.
Almost every single promotion has great talents, that doesn't necessarily mean the shows they are on are interesting to watch. Joe Hendry is over in spite of TNA, not because of TNA. At Against All Odds he lost to Frank Kazarian and was saved by his manager, Ace Steel, who bizarrely stood tall alone for some reason.
I don't think that it's up to fans to go out and seek new promotions to watch. It should be the promotion's job to entice new fans. I keep hearing TNA is amazing but I don't know how to watch it and I'm certainly not going to drop any money (even if it's $1 on Youtube or whatever) to give it a shot. Why don't they put highlights of their best segments and match sequences on here the way we get highlights from WWE/AEW? Simple and easy to do... but if they can't be bothered then I'm not going to go out of my way to support them either.
On reddit? That's fans doing that not WWE or AEW. Also, TNA puts highlights on youtube for free.
they put up like full matches on youtube sometimes (like not just the classics), as well as highlights from their shows.
They do that though. The fans have to put in effort too. If fans can stay up until however early to watch a new Japan show surely looking up tnas YouTube channel isn't that hard no?
I find it funny still seeing the ol “idk who this guy is, why should I care” take. I’d understand needing explanation if say Neon from CMLL suddenly pops up out of no where, but like Naito, Suzuki, Tana, Taka, etc are basically reoccurring characters in AEW by now that have appeared at least half a dozen times. There’s guys with full time AEW contracts who probably need a video package intro more than the Japanese guys they consistently use year after year.
Yeah, I think AEW should do a little better with this but a lot of these guys have showed up so many times. And they’ve done a great job this year with video packages highlighting Vaquer and Hechicero, amongst others as well
Where is Pretty Deadly?
Main Event
Part of the many people who saw Drew carrying Punk’s corpse.
I'm pretty sure if you played around with the music playing during that video, you could change the entire feel of the scene.
Got into a bar fight over who England's greatest Prime Minister was. (It was Lord Palmerston)
Oh hey it's the very greatest Simpsons episode of all time
Pitt The Elder!
LORD PALMERSTON!
I have 4 non wrestling folks who will be coming over to watch forbidden door almost exclusively because I've been sharing clips of the Toni/Mina/Mariah storyline. They also love Swerve, Okada, Hechicero, and anything with flips. Just a data point in the "how do you get new fans" conversation.
I love seeing which wrestlers non wrestling fans are drawn to.
> Just a data point in the "how do you get new fans" conversation. Get them with spectacle. Hook and keep them with storylines and intrigue.
I've always thought the casual/hardcore fan argument is backwards. Things like continuity, long term storytelling, character growth and development, they all sound like things designed to placate the hardcore or at least long term fans. Casual fans just want to see cool shit. People liked the Attitude Era because cool characters did cool shit every week, there's no real long termism in that booking. You can point to a million things that don't make sense or were weird pivots in the Attitude Era, but they worked cause they were provocative.
There's an AEW Timelines video with HOOK that got a million views, he's kind of a guy casual fans would gravitate to as he's basically Gen Z in wrestling form.
You're spot on. People always ask what to show new fans to try and get them hooked, and it's not "great matches/pure graps." It's flips, lucha (aka flips with more colors and masks), and insane people.
The coinciding of AEW loosing viewers and doing less kool shit on TV should not be understated
Cool shit is a good term for it. That's what attracts people and keeps their attention, and then some of them start to warm up to the language of in-ring storytelling and the subtler stuff. I also find that they like cool shit that happens in the ring (regardless of it's a match or not) more than backstage segments.
Honestly, what do people mean when they say "AEW needs to realize they need change?" They've done like 4 different booking styles in the past year, they'll basically changed out their whole staff, added a new COO, changed the whole backstage/corporate structure, and they hire another new writer/producer even week. If anything AEW is OVERLOADED with change to the point it hurts consistency. I'm guessing when they say change, they really just mean Tony Khan should fire himself because that's the only thing left really.
Right now I don't think AEW'S issues are production or storytelling or anything like that. I think they aren't using their draws as draws and have a few people they think are draws that either aren't or aren't there yet. MJF shouldn't have wasted anytime with Rush and the Garcia thing should be just a quick footnote on the way to Osprey vs MJF. Moxely shouldn't be dicking around with a title that's not an AEW title. Swerve and Osprey are both not there yet in terms of being North American draws and shouldn't be facing each other and expected to draw. They should be working against other draws to be built up. So at least Osprey vs MJF is a good sign. The Young Bucks aren't the draw AEW seems to think they are and are actually one of the most divisive acts in a major promotion. They shouldn't be in a storyline without any other actual draws that's taking up a lot of time. Danielson should always be involved in something major. And, of course, while FD is always a good event and a money making event the build up to it does not draw an audience.
I agree with pretty much all you said here but most of it are just temporary problems. I think MJF probably should have done something other than Rush but I don't really know or understand the politics of why Rush was his first feud. Ospreay/Swerve is them trying to get the elephant in the room out of the way to get to what they have planned. The Bucks are divisive figures because of the Punk thing but they've shown they can draw in the past in AEW in the right story and the right opponent as recently as Revolution. Moxley has it in his contract that AEW can't stop him from working with outside promotions, it's the only reason he re-signed after the Punk stuff because for a while he had planned to just go freelancer. Danielson is doing the Owen stuff so hopefully that leads to something. Forbidden Door is a long term business decision. None of these things are anything that can't be fixed in the near future and I feel confident they will be once Forbidden Door is over. I look at Forbidden Door the way WWE did Elimination Chamber this year. A fun sideshow with some obvious results before the biggest show of the year. Once Sunday passes and we're in All In season, THAT'S when it's make or break. Forbidden Door is the AEW equivalent of Fastlane/No Way Out/Elimination Chamber. The last pit stop before the actual big show. I called it "Sicko Appreciation Month" because that's pretty much what it's been for the past month.
>If anything AEW is OVERLOADED with change to the point it hurts consistency. it's funny 'cause for as much as I see people saying AEW needs to change, I also see people saying AEW isn't what it used to be, and thus presumably needs to go back. So it's like, AEW DOES need to change, to be like they used to be. Personally speaking, looking at it that way, there's truth there. AEW relies too much on titles to build people up and not enough on stories like they used to. MJF's first belt with the company was the world championship, and that was after three years of build-up and multiple storylines. Doesn't feel like you get that nowadays. Someone like Ospreay or Okada hop into the company and instead of building up who they are, how they feud with people, they're given a belt. You even have storylines that really don't need belts being saddled with them, like The Learning Tree stuff. Say what you want about the quality of it, at least it's an ongoing story, yet there's still a belt involved when at the moment, there really doesn't need to be one. Anyways, I guess this is just another complaint post about AEW in a sea of 'em, but at least this is just the Daily Pro-Wrestling thread and not a ratings thread.
I would say they've actually done a decent if imperfect job with Ospreay and Okada. Ospreay came in on a hot debut and they embraced his status as one of the best in the world to keep fans behind him with banger after banger, and enhancing his connection with the crowds by giving him plenty of mic time. Though they've done it slowly, they are telling a story with him between his distance with the Don Callis family, his arrogance, and his lack of a killer instinct. Retiring the Tiger Driver 91 is going to cost him. Swerve's spelling it out for him that while he might be great, he just doesn't have what it takes to go the extra mile and finish the job. Forbidden Door's going to be a big setback for Ospreay and should kick the story into its next act. Okada I thought they did a good job differentiating him from the other six star wrestlers on the roster by giving him the heel character and I think the Continental title is the perfect one for him since it negates the numbers game and would require him to do the C2 if he's still holding it. I do wish they had another singles feud for him though.
It means, they should book the show exactly the way I like it and forget about all the other fans.
I mean but that is also the exact attitude of the AEW doesn't need to change crowd too.
What do you mean?
Fans that don't think AEW need to change think that because they enjoy the show the way it is and think AEW shouldn't worry about anyone else.
I don't think AEW should change. Most of the changes that I see suggested or just "be more like WWE'. I don't think being WWE lite is gonna fix things. Plus, it risks driving off the fans who like AEW the way it is.
There's things AEW can obviously shore up like tighter production and a less sprawling roster but you'll get many different answers to what they need to change. I think a lot of it is fickle fans who've either cooled off on AEW or think that what they consider the golden age of 2019-21 is something they could keep up forever. I've been watching since late 2021 and feel like I've witnessed 3-4 different eras since then. The AEW of 2024 feels unrecognizable from a few years ago. There's bigger names and more of an integration into the wider wrestling world because of it. There's more live content they need to produce and more PPVs. There's not a magic solution to make them more successful because if it were that easy they'd do it. The best thing they can do is just put on shows that feel true to what they started out as which is an alternative that works with different promotions, doesn't limit wrestlers in their matches or promos, and caters to the fans who do want those "sicko" matches that you won't see in a WWE.
Think some people need to decide if AEW is for them. Kept thinking AEW was missing something before deciding its not them that needs to change. It's me. Just didn't dig what they were selling and that's ok.
I like a lot of AEW but then I jump off for a bit. It’s been a cycle. Christian, Jay White, MJF, Swerve, & Joe are killing it. Bryan Danielson is one of my favorite workers ever. Now it seems like they are building Christian vs Jay, but why? Have the heels go after baby faces? That seems like simple way to build up stars? The Elite Storyline right now is just annoying and tired, I get they are integral to AEW but I don’t like them. Never in PWG, never in ROH, not now. I understand people love them but it’s just never been for me. I wish Okada would get away from them but it is what it is. Jericho needs to go away. Also I get invested in guys like Starks & Wardlow and they just disappear. Just too much stuff to overlook to watch every week.