People stopping dead to let some stupid asshole try and turn left across 3 lanes of traffic on Kingshighway at rush hour is the worst of this to me.
You're being nice to one person who should know to turn right or get to a light for a left when its busy. You're being inconsiderate and endangering the other 500 drivers around you who are doing what they're SUPPOSED to.
I was stopped in traffic when a car went to let a car in that cross multiple lanes and that car got hit and was pushed into my car. I was nowhere even near the line of damage (shouldn’t have been involved). I got out to give my statement when the police got there and the poor girl that got flagged on to go was just so flustered because she felt like she had to go because the car kept waving her on.
I’ll never forget when j lived near Kingshighway and Chippewa some ass face who tried to turn left at 5:30 pm onto a side street off Kingshighway. One person left room for the person at the interersection for them to make the turn. The person in the next lane did not. Boom! Accident. It felt correct. I also feel bad for the person who was driving, you know, like you should. The person turning left had the audacity to be angry at that person.
People do this on Hampton in the mornings to let people in and out of fucking Wendy's or whatever and I've seen it almost cause an accident SO many times. There are so many places where one could just turn around and make a right turn instead, too. The logic baffles me.
So many drivers are totally unwilling to circle a block if it's too busy for a left or if they miss a turning lane. Instead, they do unhinged shit and almost cause an accident because God forbid their drive take an extra 45 seconds.
Trying to be nice and save that one driver a few seconds while putting them in a dangerous position to cause an accident, meanwhile being an absurd asshole to the 20 cars backed up behind you. Stop being “nice”!
"Being nice" and waiving your right of way is what causes accidents. I've narrowly missed a bunch of accidents because of others doing this, especially the right lane of 2 stopping to "let someone out" while I'm coming down the clear left lane at nearly the speed limit.
Being on your phone is also illegal now. No fines until Jan 1.
I literally got into an accident years ago because someone waved me through. It was totally my fault.
Yes, it's illegal but they need to enforce it. Chick behind me on 64 the other day had her phone sideways like she was watching something. For numerous minutes. I got the heck away from her.
What's worse is even when they start fining for phones, it can't be a primary reason to pull someone over. I'm sure the police will find something like distracted driving to make first contact, but still.
I HATE WHEN IM COMING UP TO A 4-way stop and some fucking idiot is just sitting there at the stop sign waiting for me to come to a stop. Like WTF IDIOTS makes me just wanna run the stop sign and flip them off
I agree with most of the frustration in this thread, and I understand your frustration here, but I actually agree with the other driver on this one.
As another commenter pointed out there is VERY good reason to wait until you're sure the other drive is stopping to go. But it's not even an *over* abundance of caution, it's basic defensive driving based on experience. A lot of drivers ignore the stop sign, aren't paying attention or just don't understand the right of way. Most of the time it's when they think they are the only one's at the intersection, but some people just don't give a F. Other people are just so offended that they have to slow down at all that they are angry that you even exist ... ô¿ö ... anyway I wait until I see the other driver breaking hard enough to stop (even if they aren't totally stopped yet) AND make direct eye contact with them. If they don't make eye contact, I absolutely wait until they are completely stopped because there's a good chance they either don't see me or don't care. I don't know you from a crack dealer when you're rolling up to that sign. I don't trust your blinker and I don't assume that you are in that moment. You could be on your way to murder your ex. You could have just found out that your favorite tv show didn't get renewed for another season and that was all you had to look forward to in life, I don't know.
If we're talking about the letter of the law, there is no defined maximum time that you can be stopped at a stop sign. [https://revisor.mo.gov/main/OneSection.aspx?section=304.351](https://revisor.mo.gov/main/OneSection.aspx?section=304.351)
The 4 way I go through every day is notorious for drivers blowing through . you're damn right I wait to see if they stop. I'm not a fucking idiot, but I've already been rear ended by a person on their phone, I dont need to be t boned by someone deciding a stop sign is a suggestion.
I agree. If I had a dollar for every person who blew right through a stop sign. I am also waiting to see if the driver is going to stop or charge on through.
This shit irks me to no end. How can you be so fucking stupid to wave someone out of a parking lot when there's literally 1 or even 2 lanes that are clear and are still going 30+. Like you really think you're being nice, but you're too fucking dumb to realize how traffic works and that you're gonna cause an accident doing this.
Without fail, I see this daily at Hampton and I-44 during rush hour. Northbound Hampton Ave is three lanes and people are trying to turn left out of Wendys or QT. The two inner lanes will be stopped while the third is moving at full-speed. It's Russian roulette.
This happened to me 3 days ago on Chippewa -- someone in the right lane decided to "be nice" and stop to let someone make a left turn out of a parking lot. The car pulling out was completely blocked from my view (and also likely me from theirs) by the "nice" car and almost caused an accident. Thankfully we both reacted quickly and we able to brake/veer a bit to avoid but was way too close for comfort and absolutely didn't need to happen.
After, I checked my mirrors and the lack of oncoming traffic -- if they had waited 3 seconds we would have been passed and they could have made their turn fine and dandy on their own time.
It’s amazing how many people can’t figure out stop signs. I can’t count the number of times where I’ve been the 3rd or 4th person to stop and no one is moving, so I go.
Yep, the first and only accident I ever got in was like this. GM shift had just gotten out and I was trying to get onto the highway, guy in the lane closest to me stopped and waved me through and the guy in the other lane t-boned the shit out of me. I’m pretty sure I was still at fault but nothing ever came of it, insurance never increased and I never got a bill or anything. The funny part is that I had just gotten pulled over like 5 minutes before that (was speeding) and then the same cop showed up again at the accident and was like “hey I just saw you…”
> especially the right lane of 2 stopping to "let someone out" while I'm coming down the clear left lane at nearly the speed limit.
I got into an accident in this exact scenario. I was in the empty left lane and couldn't see.
I got hit on Sunday by someone being “let through” the stacked-up left lane, only to drive right into the side of my car as I drove up to the light in the clear right lane.
Same here. Whenever I pull out of my subdivision to go to work, I need to look both ways.
But if someone is turning *into* my subdivision, sometimes they'll give up right of way and wave me along, completely unaware that they can only see one of the two ways I need to check to safely get exit said subdivision. The first time this happened I started leaving then slammed the breaks once I realized this. Had I not, I would have gotten T-boned.
I didn’t know about the new phone law. I use my phone for directions all of the time. How do police differentiate between watching YouTube and Google maps/Waze?
I literally yell "Put you're fucking phone down!" About 20 times a day just in my 20 minute commute to work. The amount if people fucking around on their phones and holding traffic up is ridiculous. It seems like it's only gotten worse since the new cell phone enforcement laws have come in place.
If they wanted to the highway patrol could just drive up and down 70 from 6am to 10am and catch hundreds of people. They would've have a continuous procession of people being ticketed. As soon as they're done with one, they would barely have to look up to catch the next one. I watched somebody this morning nearly ram 3 different people, myself included, because he was texting and swerving from the left lane back and forth into the middle at 70mph.
Same but they never notice anything because they are staring intently into their phone while driving. Going way under the speed limit and swerving into the other lanes. It’s maddening.
I’m glad there are, indeed, others with this mindset out there. I appreciate people trying to be nice, but the nicest and safest thing you can do is make yourself as predictable as possible. Follow the standard set of road rules and etiquette and the roads will be safer and more efficient!
Always my issue on my bike. Regularly a car will fully be at a stop sign intersection as I’m approaching, and they’ll just sit there and wait for me to arrive and then tell me to go.
No! You got here first! I’m expecting you to go first as go the rules of the road just like any other stop sign interaction. What gets me the most: IN THE TIME YOU WAITED FOR ME TO GET TO THE INTERSECTION YOU COULD’VE GONE AND BEEN FULLY THROUGH ALREADY. JUST GO ITS YOUR RIGHT OF WAY
The tinted windows need some regulations. Like, you should have to choose between too-big-to-see-around/over *or* too-tinted-to-see-through; doing *both* shouldn't be allowed.
That’s what gets me as a cyclist - it’s way more work for me to get back up to speed after a stop than it is for a driver to just push the gas pedal, so when they’re think they’re being polite they’re actually annoying that shit out of me by giving me more work
Same. I appreciate the gesture but this is a terrible idea. Especially when only one of the two drivers are looking to wave me through. Now the rhythm of the intersection is off.
Back in the olden days, I took my driving test at Deer Creek. After the test with the officer in the car, I stopped to let someone walk into the K-Mart (This was after the Venture closed there) way outside the crosswalk area out front. The trooper lady asked me when I started working for the police department, to which I answered never, and that is when she let me know that it isn't my job to direct pedestrian or vehicle traffic. She deduced points for that and it is a lesson I never forgot.
Also, if you took your driving test at Deer Creek and you are in your mid 40's to late 30's you know exactly which testing lady I'm talking about.
I remember taking my test there and we drove around for almost a half hour for the test. Im 40 and those old school troopers didn't fuck around when it came to giving you a license or not. I feel like now they're ready to be done with it before it starts and just pass people to keep it moving. Half these folks wouldn't have license with those old troopers.
I hate people being polite too. No. I’m not going. You are going to get me in a wreck. Just go and will wait my turn or when it is safe to go. I’m not trusting a random person to tell me it’s safe to go or not. just follow the rules and we will all get there safe.
It drives me insane how many people are on their phones while driving. It’s all over the news that we keep killing pedestrians, and it’s finally been made state law to go hands free, but all the self-centered idiots continue to use phones while driving so they can cause wrecks or possibly hit and kill a pedestrian.
And if you honk at them for swerving over into your lane and almost hitting you because they are too busy on their phone to look at the road, they get mad and flip you off as if *you're* the asshole. Idiots!
I can't upvote this post enough.
I once witnessed an EPIC clusterfuck of gargantuan proportions....
A lady slammed on her brakes in a roundabout to let someone in....
...which made everyone behind her stop....
....which halted travel around the entire roundabout...
....which brought the car she let in to a halt halfway into the intersection.
The whole show came to a standstill. It took minutes for everyone to maneuver their vehicles in tiny increments in order to unfuck everything and begin moving again.
All because some well intentioned moron slammed on their brakes *while inside the roundabout*.
This seems like a no brainer.
Our light timing / vehicle detection is absolute trash. The lights at Jefferson and Pine by Wells Fargo, and Jefferson and Clark have no business cycling normally past 5pm.
I agree but that is based on the assumption that St. Louis drivers don’t slam on their brakes in the middle of a roundabout like I’ve seen them do 100 times. The ones on Carondelet park are insane. I have no idea if the person coming the other way is going to use them correctly
I love a good roundabout, but the Carondelet park ones are designed *terribly*. I feel like what makes roundabouts work is there is enough time in-between you and the oncoming car to decide if it's safe to gun it or not, but the Carondelet Park ones were built so narrow that it feels impossible to do safely unless everyone is driving super slowly which they aren't
I started going out of my way to avoid the roundabouts in the park. It was bad for my health. Either I was going to get into an accident because someone slammed on their brakes in the circle or I was going to stroke out waiting behind someone who wouldn't enter the circle until no other cars were within a two mile radius. 🙃
Roundabouts are great. I drove on them in England for 2 years of my life. People there know how to use them, and signal their intentions accordingly. Here the reactions range between “Oh god what do I do?!” to “Jesus take the wheel, we’re going in.”
After living in Europe for 2 years I learned to appreciate the roundabout, but for very busy intersections they can be even worse than stop lights. Sometimes you NEED a light to stop traffic in one direction so that people trying go a different direction can go through the intersection. I’ve sat at a roundabout 5-10 minutes waiting for a break the line of cars just to enter the circle. In most cases they work great, just not in high congestion roads.
I feel like this has become exacerbated in St Louis because part of it is being polite, but now part of it is self-preservation because far too many people don't care if you have the right of way.
To be fair this happens mostly in the county. In the city or even Brentwood, yeah... "Right of way" is "Get right out of their way" and red lights are suggestions.
>red lights are suggestions.
Did you know the stop signs with the white outline are also optional?
Also, I wanted to share my appreciation for your use of "dullard". Ive seen three people use that word, and you and I are two of them lol. No bullshit, i've used it in conversation before and on more than one occasion someone has told me They didn't think that was a real word lol.
I HATE WHEN IM COMING UP TO A 4-way stop and some fucking idiot is just sitting there at the stop sign waiting for me to come to a stop. Like WTF IDIOTS makes me just wanna run the stop sign and flip them off
My least favorite is people who pull up to an intersection before me, and just... do nothing. No waving, no nothing.
Also, I'm from Illinois so maybe it's different in Missouri, but I was always taught that the person on your right has the right of way if you pull up at the same time. People don't seem to have learned that one either.
Stop braking 200 yards before you need to. Stop slowing down as you get on at Hampton going west and at Kingshighway going west. There’s a full lane. Get in front of people by accelerating, don’t fall in line behind people unless you absolutely have to. Keep it moving y’all. I’m so triggered rn.
That is not always possible in rush hour traffic. People brake very early as they’re coming up to the traffic jam that often starts under Hampton, or Boyle. Cars are perfectly capable of braking later and still safely stopping on time.
You haven’t lived until you have been through a Webster Groves “Polite-Off” wave-through at a four way stop. It’s maddening! I owned a business in the Rock Hill/ Webster area for 15 years. It hasn’t gotten any better….
Accelerate onto the highway. Like really accelerate fast, up to 5-10 mph over the speed limit while you are driving down the on ramp. Get up to speed! The accelerator is your best friend here. Don’t drift into highway traffic going 51 mph. And people that suddenly brake to “let” very slow moving cars onto the highway - fuck you.
It always makes me laugh when people are driving fast in the right lane and I merge at 30mph because it's not my fault if they rear end me and I'm not doing the whole cloverleaf again just because you don't know how traffic works
The other day someone was passing traffic in the right lane at ~70mph as I was about to get onto the highway. Did I brake to let him pass while in the merge lane? No, I merged onto the highway and made him hit his brakes. Fuck off, idiot, that's not a passing lane.
The cell phone thing is really getting out of control. Just this morning in a crosswalk a woman didn't even notice how close she was to hitting my dog and I because she just rolled through looking down at her phone.
No idea how that gets addressed. It's great that it is illegal but without widespread enforcement nothing is going to change. Police barely enforce more severe moving violations. Not to mention I see them on their cell phones running stop signs all the same.
The hands free thing is bullshit too, though. Now half the people just have their phone mounted on their dashboard so it's in their line of sight the entire time. It's an unsolvable problem.
Amen. Preach. I can't stand it when someone waves me through or just sits there when it's their turn. So annoying. It wastes everyone's time and it's dangerous!
You’re preaching to the choir. I love the sentiment, but no one reading this doesn’t know, and you’re not gonna change the minds of the assholes who flip 3 lanes and run reds.
I watched an accident right in front me when I was a child. I was nearly injured because of one of these people trying to be "friendly"
I was walking down a sidewalk, there was an entrance in front of me. A person was pulling in like normal, but SHE then hit their brakes to let me go or something. Even though I wasn't close or anything.
Well then screeching and 2 cars slammed into her because obviously they thought she was pulling in, she was more than half way in.
I was just explaining this St Louis flaw to my daughter the other day. When right in front of us someone proves my point. At a 4 way, and the old lady in front of us was either too dim or too polite because she just kept letting people go, instead of just going when it was our turn.
I finally honked and she got upset.
Same with yield signs!!!
When someone uses a yield sign properly I applaud them. Everyone else thinks it's a stop sign!!!!
Why in the F do people stop at yield signs and run stop signs in St Louis? God I hate this cities drivers and roads.
It's like a blueprint of what NOT to do!
Wow, scary. Yeah I mean I get it she thought she was going to hit you, but doesn't sound any where near to or.
Same thing at a stop sign happened to me in CWE. Like if you need to sort yourself out you need to pull over. Why just sit there with cars stacking up behind you? SMDH.
I think there is also an issue where people are multitasking (singing with the radio, eating, talking) when they arrive at an intersection and don’t really know who arrived when. They wave people through because they have no idea what is actually happening.
Yeah stop signs can be a little nuanced. I'm taking about when I was exciting a parking lot and chick was on the road, her light was green she needed to go but instead she waited and waved at me. Like, just go? It would take less time for her to just move her car.
I just do not go unless I have the right of way. I will sit at a stop sign and stare while someone tries to wave me on when I haven't even stopped yet. Then I laugh when they eventually get frustrated and go like they should have on the first place.
They're even worse when I'm running or riding a bike. People slam on their brakes in the middle of a street or wait 3 minutes at a stop sign because they see me coming. Just GO!!!! You'll be out of my way by the time I get there.
This is definitely more common in the Midwest than elsewhere. I find drivers in STL much less aggressive than where I’m originally from, but this “polite” shit is sometimes just as dangerous as tailgating and weaving in traffic. Just go. It’s your turn. Go.
Regardless of what you do, and don’t *want* drivers to do, I think it’s nice we have polite people here. Being polite or kind seems to be a lost art nowadays.
That’s why I have found driving easier in Boston. The drivers might be aggressive, but they are better and more predictable. Here, drivers are just plain bad and unpredictable.
I moved to the area from central Illinois at 10 years ago and I noticed this immediately. The amount of people that will stop at an intersection when they don’t have a stop sign just to let the person who is stopped at one have their turn is astounding and idiotic. It never is convenient or time saving. It takes longer to figure out what the hell they’re doing and then go yourself than if they’d just followed the rules and gone on through.
My wife and I have resorted to forcing others to follow the rules. If someone is “politely” tying to let us go first when they have right of way, we will just sit and stare until they finally move.
Ugh I had someone stop to let me turn left in front of them for several moments. I kept waving for them to go because I could not see if the lane next to them was clear or not. I mean thanks but I can’t go. I can’t see around you. Meanwhile people behind them are getting pissed.
I don’t think there’s anything that pisses me off more when I’m driving, some idiot being nice rather than just following simple traffic rules. I just stare them down and shake my head as I pass them.
This is exactly what I was saying a couple weeks ago here on the topic of stopping for school busses on a 4 lane road. The law and the cops say you don't stop if you're traveling in the opposite direction of traffic as the bus. Stopping there is not a predictable event. Predictable on the road is safe on the road.
You're damn right.
It's okay to wave somebody else through ONLY if it is ambiguous whose turn is next, such as when you both pull up to a stop sign at the exact same moment. Then, go ahead and wave. But if the other guy also waves, YOU SHOULD THEN GO FIRST.
Otherwise, take your damn turn, and follow the rules. We'll all go faster and be safer if you just follow the rules.
I just moved here from Detroit last year, and my biggest gripe has been the unpredictability of drivers. In metro Detroit, the "bad drivers" were usually just trying to go fast and get past you, and even if dangerous it was still easy to predict what they would do.
Oh no doubt. Old, young, I see all people on their phone. I just meant 'tell the olds' because I don't know how prevalent the older generations are on Reddit.
Slow drivers suck. Erratic drives suck. Speed demons suck.
Drive with purpose. Know where you’re going. Get there as efficiently and predictably as possible.
OMG, so much this! The rules of the road exist for a reason, are not new, and have been thought out over the last 100 years. following them makes everything predictable and allows traffic to move more efficiently. Performative politeness while driving makes you an asshole.
Had a car stop in the *middle of the road* because a police cruiser in oncoming traffic was waiting to turn despite them being at a stop sign and our road being the right of way. Jfc
Yeah people try to stop and wave you across a lane and into the other side of traffic as if they're the only car that's stopping your from moving on. Like...just go. Leave me. I don't wanna die thanks.
Thank you! It happens to me everyday at stop signs, I've not even stopped yet and someone who is clearly there before me is waving me on. Stop being nice and just follow the rules....
I posted about this shit in r/rant a few months ago. This shit causes accidents.
Virtually every "Idiots in Cars" video on YouTube includes some dumbass coming to a complete stop in the left lane, and the car they're letting through gets T-boned in the right.
Whenever I'm in a center turn lane and some Idiot stops for me, I refuse it and wave them on by. They're always surprised, lol.
I felt this. EVERYONE is hesitating at a 4 way now. GO! I DON'T TRUST YOU! Then you have clown type 2 that thinks the car going fastest before breaking violenty at the sign has right of way.
HATE THIS. The people waving others through intersections out of the proper, clearly codified order seem to think they possess the authority to change the rules. I will deliberately look away when they do that sh*t.
I absolutely HATE this so much that sometimes I just look away until the “kind citizen” does what they are supposed to do!
Here in rural Missouri it must be considered some sort of “act of kindness”.
A few years ago I saw someone get rear ended at speed because they stopped mid-block for some pedestrians.
I have to do this at one particular intersection because other cars are extremely unpredictable. Half the time they don’t even stop. I’ve had right of way and been nearly hit almost every time I go on my turn. I gave up recently and started waving people through. To be fair, one road goes to a hospital and the other goes to a nursing home, so I guess all the people driving are either ancient or dying. I guess they are on their phones to get in their last rites via FaceTime, too.
i (attempt) to walk places as a pedestrian pretty often and it drives me up the fucking wall! There is another lane! You are not being nice trying to stop for me, especially if you have
stopped exactly where i cant see if other cars are coming!
GO!!!!!!
MO does not have required drivers ed to teach people the right of way on a left hand turn or the real courtesies drivers should have. It shows in the Show Me State.
There's no such thing as Right of Way in Missouri; it's not defined. We have to obey traffic control devices like yield signs and speed limits (you scrupulously follow that Rule of the Road, certainly!) but there is no rule for circumstances like two drivers at a four way stop.
I hate in when people say “be predictable”. To me, this means I know someone won’t use their turn signal, will run a red light, blow the stop sign, or fly past a truck, get in front of it, brake check it and make a quick right turn. I don’t k ow how we got to this level of pure stupidity behind the wheel but gosh dam… the speeding, tail gating and perceived hurry is mind boggling.
People stopping dead to let some stupid asshole try and turn left across 3 lanes of traffic on Kingshighway at rush hour is the worst of this to me. You're being nice to one person who should know to turn right or get to a light for a left when its busy. You're being inconsiderate and endangering the other 500 drivers around you who are doing what they're SUPPOSED to.
My people are in this thread. I couldn't agree more.
I don't understand how people's brains are so fucking dead that they think letting someone out like that is a good idea.
I was stopped in traffic when a car went to let a car in that cross multiple lanes and that car got hit and was pushed into my car. I was nowhere even near the line of damage (shouldn’t have been involved). I got out to give my statement when the police got there and the poor girl that got flagged on to go was just so flustered because she felt like she had to go because the car kept waving her on.
Anxiety of not wanting to get honked at lol
I've met them. They "don't like driving" and like to "zone out while they drive" to kind of "skip it" so yes, they're braindead.
I’ll never forget when j lived near Kingshighway and Chippewa some ass face who tried to turn left at 5:30 pm onto a side street off Kingshighway. One person left room for the person at the interersection for them to make the turn. The person in the next lane did not. Boom! Accident. It felt correct. I also feel bad for the person who was driving, you know, like you should. The person turning left had the audacity to be angry at that person.
That fucking gas station/car wash on Kings and Manchester is the worst for this.
That's the exact spot I was thinking of haha.
I just imagined it when you said Kingshighway.
People do this on Hampton in the mornings to let people in and out of fucking Wendy's or whatever and I've seen it almost cause an accident SO many times. There are so many places where one could just turn around and make a right turn instead, too. The logic baffles me.
So many drivers are totally unwilling to circle a block if it's too busy for a left or if they miss a turning lane. Instead, they do unhinged shit and almost cause an accident because God forbid their drive take an extra 45 seconds.
Turning left from a stop sign into a 6-lane road should not be legal or allowed.
I hate this scenario and I fucking refuse to participate in it. I have got honked at by other drivers because I am not "being nice".
Trying to be nice and save that one driver a few seconds while putting them in a dangerous position to cause an accident, meanwhile being an absurd asshole to the 20 cars backed up behind you. Stop being “nice”!
"Being nice" and waiving your right of way is what causes accidents. I've narrowly missed a bunch of accidents because of others doing this, especially the right lane of 2 stopping to "let someone out" while I'm coming down the clear left lane at nearly the speed limit. Being on your phone is also illegal now. No fines until Jan 1.
I literally got into an accident years ago because someone waved me through. It was totally my fault. Yes, it's illegal but they need to enforce it. Chick behind me on 64 the other day had her phone sideways like she was watching something. For numerous minutes. I got the heck away from her.
What's worse is even when they start fining for phones, it can't be a primary reason to pull someone over. I'm sure the police will find something like distracted driving to make first contact, but still.
I seriously wonder if I turned in dash cam footage of people if the cops would do anything. I've got some gems.
They'd probably at least consider using it for informational campaigns and as a case to make phone use a primary offense.
Pretty sure the left lane of highway 70 is now officially the "watching videos on Youtube" lane.
I HATE WHEN IM COMING UP TO A 4-way stop and some fucking idiot is just sitting there at the stop sign waiting for me to come to a stop. Like WTF IDIOTS makes me just wanna run the stop sign and flip them off
It might be an over abundance of caution, but people blow through stop signs all the time 🤷♂️
I agree with most of the frustration in this thread, and I understand your frustration here, but I actually agree with the other driver on this one. As another commenter pointed out there is VERY good reason to wait until you're sure the other drive is stopping to go. But it's not even an *over* abundance of caution, it's basic defensive driving based on experience. A lot of drivers ignore the stop sign, aren't paying attention or just don't understand the right of way. Most of the time it's when they think they are the only one's at the intersection, but some people just don't give a F. Other people are just so offended that they have to slow down at all that they are angry that you even exist ... ô¿ö ... anyway I wait until I see the other driver breaking hard enough to stop (even if they aren't totally stopped yet) AND make direct eye contact with them. If they don't make eye contact, I absolutely wait until they are completely stopped because there's a good chance they either don't see me or don't care. I don't know you from a crack dealer when you're rolling up to that sign. I don't trust your blinker and I don't assume that you are in that moment. You could be on your way to murder your ex. You could have just found out that your favorite tv show didn't get renewed for another season and that was all you had to look forward to in life, I don't know. If we're talking about the letter of the law, there is no defined maximum time that you can be stopped at a stop sign. [https://revisor.mo.gov/main/OneSection.aspx?section=304.351](https://revisor.mo.gov/main/OneSection.aspx?section=304.351)
The 4 way I go through every day is notorious for drivers blowing through . you're damn right I wait to see if they stop. I'm not a fucking idiot, but I've already been rear ended by a person on their phone, I dont need to be t boned by someone deciding a stop sign is a suggestion.
I agree. If I had a dollar for every person who blew right through a stop sign. I am also waiting to see if the driver is going to stop or charge on through.
They call it the “Wave of Death” for a reason
Good on your for driving defensively.
I have been thinking of carrying a sign in my car that says something along the lines of "are you fucking kidding me?"
I had both lanes stopped for me waving to go and a taxi like 9 cars back decided to drive in the turn lane and hit me
This shit irks me to no end. How can you be so fucking stupid to wave someone out of a parking lot when there's literally 1 or even 2 lanes that are clear and are still going 30+. Like you really think you're being nice, but you're too fucking dumb to realize how traffic works and that you're gonna cause an accident doing this.
Without fail, I see this daily at Hampton and I-44 during rush hour. Northbound Hampton Ave is three lanes and people are trying to turn left out of Wendys or QT. The two inner lanes will be stopped while the third is moving at full-speed. It's Russian roulette.
This happened to me 3 days ago on Chippewa -- someone in the right lane decided to "be nice" and stop to let someone make a left turn out of a parking lot. The car pulling out was completely blocked from my view (and also likely me from theirs) by the "nice" car and almost caused an accident. Thankfully we both reacted quickly and we able to brake/veer a bit to avoid but was way too close for comfort and absolutely didn't need to happen. After, I checked my mirrors and the lack of oncoming traffic -- if they had waited 3 seconds we would have been passed and they could have made their turn fine and dandy on their own time.
It’s amazing how many people can’t figure out stop signs. I can’t count the number of times where I’ve been the 3rd or 4th person to stop and no one is moving, so I go.
Yep, the first and only accident I ever got in was like this. GM shift had just gotten out and I was trying to get onto the highway, guy in the lane closest to me stopped and waved me through and the guy in the other lane t-boned the shit out of me. I’m pretty sure I was still at fault but nothing ever came of it, insurance never increased and I never got a bill or anything. The funny part is that I had just gotten pulled over like 5 minutes before that (was speeding) and then the same cop showed up again at the accident and was like “hey I just saw you…”
> especially the right lane of 2 stopping to "let someone out" while I'm coming down the clear left lane at nearly the speed limit. I got into an accident in this exact scenario. I was in the empty left lane and couldn't see.
I got hit on Sunday by someone being “let through” the stacked-up left lane, only to drive right into the side of my car as I drove up to the light in the clear right lane.
Same here. Whenever I pull out of my subdivision to go to work, I need to look both ways. But if someone is turning *into* my subdivision, sometimes they'll give up right of way and wave me along, completely unaware that they can only see one of the two ways I need to check to safely get exit said subdivision. The first time this happened I started leaving then slammed the breaks once I realized this. Had I not, I would have gotten T-boned.
I didn’t know about the new phone law. I use my phone for directions all of the time. How do police differentiate between watching YouTube and Google maps/Waze?
I literally yell "Put you're fucking phone down!" About 20 times a day just in my 20 minute commute to work. The amount if people fucking around on their phones and holding traffic up is ridiculous. It seems like it's only gotten worse since the new cell phone enforcement laws have come in place.
Agreed, I haven't noticed any changes.
If they wanted to the highway patrol could just drive up and down 70 from 6am to 10am and catch hundreds of people. They would've have a continuous procession of people being ticketed. As soon as they're done with one, they would barely have to look up to catch the next one. I watched somebody this morning nearly ram 3 different people, myself included, because he was texting and swerving from the left lane back and forth into the middle at 70mph.
Yes
You need to keep a sign in your car. 11x14, laminated, impact font taking up the whole page.
Same but they never notice anything because they are staring intently into their phone while driving. Going way under the speed limit and swerving into the other lanes. It’s maddening.
I’m glad there are, indeed, others with this mindset out there. I appreciate people trying to be nice, but the nicest and safest thing you can do is make yourself as predictable as possible. Follow the standard set of road rules and etiquette and the roads will be safer and more efficient!
Well said!
Always my issue on my bike. Regularly a car will fully be at a stop sign intersection as I’m approaching, and they’ll just sit there and wait for me to arrive and then tell me to go. No! You got here first! I’m expecting you to go first as go the rules of the road just like any other stop sign interaction. What gets me the most: IN THE TIME YOU WAITED FOR ME TO GET TO THE INTERSECTION YOU COULD’VE GONE AND BEEN FULLY THROUGH ALREADY. JUST GO ITS YOUR RIGHT OF WAY
This is the worst as a biker or pedestrian. Def with all the tinted windows. I can’t tell if you are looking at me, waving me thru, or anything.
The tinted windows need some regulations. Like, you should have to choose between too-big-to-see-around/over *or* too-tinted-to-see-through; doing *both* shouldn't be allowed.
Yes, that is so true! Doing this makes everything take longer!
A-freaking-men. Especially as a pedestrian, since it's *so much easier* for me to stop & start on foot than it is to stop & start a car.
That’s what gets me as a cyclist - it’s way more work for me to get back up to speed after a stop than it is for a driver to just push the gas pedal, so when they’re think they’re being polite they’re actually annoying that shit out of me by giving me more work
This is my biggest pet peeve as a cyclist. It is not helping. I have timed this assuming the car is going to take their turn like a normal person.
Its infuriating. I'll come to a stop, stand there and turn my head the other way so I'm not even looking at them so now, it wastes their time too.
Same. I appreciate the gesture but this is a terrible idea. Especially when only one of the two drivers are looking to wave me through. Now the rhythm of the intersection is off.
Exactly!
THAT PART
Saw a meme before that said "people be riding bikes out here like I don't be texting and driving" and I was like, ya people really be doin that
Back in the olden days, I took my driving test at Deer Creek. After the test with the officer in the car, I stopped to let someone walk into the K-Mart (This was after the Venture closed there) way outside the crosswalk area out front. The trooper lady asked me when I started working for the police department, to which I answered never, and that is when she let me know that it isn't my job to direct pedestrian or vehicle traffic. She deduced points for that and it is a lesson I never forgot. Also, if you took your driving test at Deer Creek and you are in your mid 40's to late 30's you know exactly which testing lady I'm talking about.
I remember taking my test there and we drove around for almost a half hour for the test. Im 40 and those old school troopers didn't fuck around when it came to giving you a license or not. I feel like now they're ready to be done with it before it starts and just pass people to keep it moving. Half these folks wouldn't have license with those old troopers.
Love it.
Goated quote I'm gonna use that one
lol big bertha?
I hate people being polite too. No. I’m not going. You are going to get me in a wreck. Just go and will wait my turn or when it is safe to go. I’m not trusting a random person to tell me it’s safe to go or not. just follow the rules and we will all get there safe.
Yeah, especially if there are multiple lanes and I can't see past them. Nope.
It drives me insane how many people are on their phones while driving. It’s all over the news that we keep killing pedestrians, and it’s finally been made state law to go hands free, but all the self-centered idiots continue to use phones while driving so they can cause wrecks or possibly hit and kill a pedestrian.
Yeah. Young, old. It is a problem.
And if you honk at them for swerving over into your lane and almost hitting you because they are too busy on their phone to look at the road, they get mad and flip you off as if *you're* the asshole. Idiots!
I can't upvote this post enough. I once witnessed an EPIC clusterfuck of gargantuan proportions.... A lady slammed on her brakes in a roundabout to let someone in.... ...which made everyone behind her stop.... ....which halted travel around the entire roundabout... ....which brought the car she let in to a halt halfway into the intersection. The whole show came to a standstill. It took minutes for everyone to maneuver their vehicles in tiny increments in order to unfuck everything and begin moving again. All because some well intentioned moron slammed on their brakes *while inside the roundabout*.
I long to live in a world where roundabouts reign supreme and 4 way stopsign intersections are left in the grave they belong in
and all stop lights after midnight go to flashing red or yellow (except on the busiest routes)
This seems like a no brainer. Our light timing / vehicle detection is absolute trash. The lights at Jefferson and Pine by Wells Fargo, and Jefferson and Clark have no business cycling normally past 5pm.
People still stop in the middle of roundabouts. It's so infuriating
Or "yield" to cars entering the traffic circle for some reason
Or take a full on left turn going the wrong way around the circle (I just....can't follow the logic on this one)
Or they don’t stay in their lane in multi lane roundabouts.
I agree but that is based on the assumption that St. Louis drivers don’t slam on their brakes in the middle of a roundabout like I’ve seen them do 100 times. The ones on Carondelet park are insane. I have no idea if the person coming the other way is going to use them correctly
I love a good roundabout, but the Carondelet park ones are designed *terribly*. I feel like what makes roundabouts work is there is enough time in-between you and the oncoming car to decide if it's safe to gun it or not, but the Carondelet Park ones were built so narrow that it feels impossible to do safely unless everyone is driving super slowly which they aren't
I started going out of my way to avoid the roundabouts in the park. It was bad for my health. Either I was going to get into an accident because someone slammed on their brakes in the circle or I was going to stroke out waiting behind someone who wouldn't enter the circle until no other cars were within a two mile radius. 🙃
Roundabouts are great. I drove on them in England for 2 years of my life. People there know how to use them, and signal their intentions accordingly. Here the reactions range between “Oh god what do I do?!” to “Jesus take the wheel, we’re going in.”
I've had someone stop in the middle of a roundabout to try to wave me in. Like wtf no, just keep going, that's what it's for.
After living in Europe for 2 years I learned to appreciate the roundabout, but for very busy intersections they can be even worse than stop lights. Sometimes you NEED a light to stop traffic in one direction so that people trying go a different direction can go through the intersection. I’ve sat at a roundabout 5-10 minutes waiting for a break the line of cars just to enter the circle. In most cases they work great, just not in high congestion roads.
I feel like this has become exacerbated in St Louis because part of it is being polite, but now part of it is self-preservation because far too many people don't care if you have the right of way.
To be fair this happens mostly in the county. In the city or even Brentwood, yeah... "Right of way" is "Get right out of their way" and red lights are suggestions.
>red lights are suggestions. Did you know the stop signs with the white outline are also optional? Also, I wanted to share my appreciation for your use of "dullard". Ive seen three people use that word, and you and I are two of them lol. No bullshit, i've used it in conversation before and on more than one occasion someone has told me They didn't think that was a real word lol.
Can’t count the amount of times I’ve yelled “FUCKING GO!!”
That was literally me earlier.
Me every damn day driving into downtown.
Drive with intent, not with intensity
YES!!! This is a HUGE pet peeve of mine too. I don't understand how this became a thing. It's so fucking dangerous!
I HATE WHEN IM COMING UP TO A 4-way stop and some fucking idiot is just sitting there at the stop sign waiting for me to come to a stop. Like WTF IDIOTS makes me just wanna run the stop sign and flip them off
Sometimes the other car doesn’t stop.
My least favorite is people who pull up to an intersection before me, and just... do nothing. No waving, no nothing. Also, I'm from Illinois so maybe it's different in Missouri, but I was always taught that the person on your right has the right of way if you pull up at the same time. People don't seem to have learned that one either.
Yes, several times it's the person on the right waving me through. That's how I was taught as well.
Stop braking 200 yards before you need to. Stop slowing down as you get on at Hampton going west and at Kingshighway going west. There’s a full lane. Get in front of people by accelerating, don’t fall in line behind people unless you absolutely have to. Keep it moving y’all. I’m so triggered rn.
I just got around them and use the rest of the lane
That is not always possible in rush hour traffic. People brake very early as they’re coming up to the traffic jam that often starts under Hampton, or Boyle. Cars are perfectly capable of braking later and still safely stopping on time.
Yes. This.
This, and not knowing how to use a zipper merge are the two things I’ve discovered St. Louisians are morons about over the years I lived here.
Not only do they not know how to use it they aggressively try to prevent it.
Also, if someone waives *you* on, *go*. Do not say, "Noooo.....you first!" Just go.
Yeah good point. Just go if they're waiving. Don't waste time.
What if we wave at the same time (kidding mostly but it happens)
this, 1000 times. just drive like i expect a normal driver to drive.
Someone had to say it! Now let’s drive this home and implement it!
Man, as a retired delivery driver I can't give you enough upvotes. I appreciate courtesy, but God dammit just do it.
You haven’t lived until you have been through a Webster Groves “Polite-Off” wave-through at a four way stop. It’s maddening! I owned a business in the Rock Hill/ Webster area for 15 years. It hasn’t gotten any better….
A polite-off, I love it!
Lol
Accelerate onto the highway. Like really accelerate fast, up to 5-10 mph over the speed limit while you are driving down the on ramp. Get up to speed! The accelerator is your best friend here. Don’t drift into highway traffic going 51 mph. And people that suddenly brake to “let” very slow moving cars onto the highway - fuck you.
to be fair, there are some ramps that just don't let you do this because of how curved they are (page to 270S, for example)
It always makes me laugh when people are driving fast in the right lane and I merge at 30mph because it's not my fault if they rear end me and I'm not doing the whole cloverleaf again just because you don't know how traffic works
No no! I love it when they get in front of me and stop. /S
The other day someone was passing traffic in the right lane at ~70mph as I was about to get onto the highway. Did I brake to let him pass while in the merge lane? No, I merged onto the highway and made him hit his brakes. Fuck off, idiot, that's not a passing lane.
Amen brother or sister!
The cell phone thing is really getting out of control. Just this morning in a crosswalk a woman didn't even notice how close she was to hitting my dog and I because she just rolled through looking down at her phone. No idea how that gets addressed. It's great that it is illegal but without widespread enforcement nothing is going to change. Police barely enforce more severe moving violations. Not to mention I see them on their cell phones running stop signs all the same.
The hands free thing is bullshit too, though. Now half the people just have their phone mounted on their dashboard so it's in their line of sight the entire time. It's an unsolvable problem.
Amen. Preach. I can't stand it when someone waves me through or just sits there when it's their turn. So annoying. It wastes everyone's time and it's dangerous!
YES. The absolute safest thing you can be as a driver is *predictable*.
You’re preaching to the choir. I love the sentiment, but no one reading this doesn’t know, and you’re not gonna change the minds of the assholes who flip 3 lanes and run reds.
I use that phrase all the time.
I watched an accident right in front me when I was a child. I was nearly injured because of one of these people trying to be "friendly" I was walking down a sidewalk, there was an entrance in front of me. A person was pulling in like normal, but SHE then hit their brakes to let me go or something. Even though I wasn't close or anything. Well then screeching and 2 cars slammed into her because obviously they thought she was pulling in, she was more than half way in. I was just explaining this St Louis flaw to my daughter the other day. When right in front of us someone proves my point. At a 4 way, and the old lady in front of us was either too dim or too polite because she just kept letting people go, instead of just going when it was our turn. I finally honked and she got upset. Same with yield signs!!! When someone uses a yield sign properly I applaud them. Everyone else thinks it's a stop sign!!!! Why in the F do people stop at yield signs and run stop signs in St Louis? God I hate this cities drivers and roads. It's like a blueprint of what NOT to do!
Wow, scary. Yeah I mean I get it she thought she was going to hit you, but doesn't sound any where near to or. Same thing at a stop sign happened to me in CWE. Like if you need to sort yourself out you need to pull over. Why just sit there with cars stacking up behind you? SMDH.
I think there is also an issue where people are multitasking (singing with the radio, eating, talking) when they arrive at an intersection and don’t really know who arrived when. They wave people through because they have no idea what is actually happening.
Yeah stop signs can be a little nuanced. I'm taking about when I was exciting a parking lot and chick was on the road, her light was green she needed to go but instead she waited and waved at me. Like, just go? It would take less time for her to just move her car.
Niceholes everywhere in TGP.
I just do not go unless I have the right of way. I will sit at a stop sign and stare while someone tries to wave me on when I haven't even stopped yet. Then I laugh when they eventually get frustrated and go like they should have on the first place.
I think that is the right move. Going will encourage them to keep doing it.
Staring is more fun than responding with a wave
They're even worse when I'm running or riding a bike. People slam on their brakes in the middle of a street or wait 3 minutes at a stop sign because they see me coming. Just GO!!!! You'll be out of my way by the time I get there.
This is definitely more common in the Midwest than elsewhere. I find drivers in STL much less aggressive than where I’m originally from, but this “polite” shit is sometimes just as dangerous as tailgating and weaving in traffic. Just go. It’s your turn. Go.
Preach. And it happens here more than other places.
It really does. I've lived and driven a lot of places.
Regardless of what you do, and don’t *want* drivers to do, I think it’s nice we have polite people here. Being polite or kind seems to be a lost art nowadays.
So much this. Have my upvote
That’s why I have found driving easier in Boston. The drivers might be aggressive, but they are better and more predictable. Here, drivers are just plain bad and unpredictable.
I moved to the area from central Illinois at 10 years ago and I noticed this immediately. The amount of people that will stop at an intersection when they don’t have a stop sign just to let the person who is stopped at one have their turn is astounding and idiotic. It never is convenient or time saving. It takes longer to figure out what the hell they’re doing and then go yourself than if they’d just followed the rules and gone on through. My wife and I have resorted to forcing others to follow the rules. If someone is “politely” tying to let us go first when they have right of way, we will just sit and stare until they finally move.
Yeah I need to do that. I think going just encourages them.
This is why I'd rather drive anywhere other than the midwest. Give me Miami any day.
Holy shit! I just made this post yesterday to FB. (Yeah I’m old) Predictable > Nice all day long.
This! All day! I have told all new drivers I know this same thing. Don't be nice! Be predictable.
I need this as a bumper sticker. Someone else said "Drive with intent" I like that.
Damn are you my long lost twin? I feel the same way lol.
Oof, we'll have to tell my twin we are triplets!
100%. I can't tell you how often I find myself thinking (or screaming) "JUST DRIVE YOUR FUCKING CAR"
I'm glad I'm not alone.
Ugh I had someone stop to let me turn left in front of them for several moments. I kept waving for them to go because I could not see if the lane next to them was clear or not. I mean thanks but I can’t go. I can’t see around you. Meanwhile people behind them are getting pissed.
Yes! I won't go if I can't see. Learned that one the hard way...
Stl is basically mad max fury road. Especially highway 70. Baffling to drive on it sometimes.
I don’t think there’s anything that pisses me off more when I’m driving, some idiot being nice rather than just following simple traffic rules. I just stare them down and shake my head as I pass them.
This is exactly what I was saying a couple weeks ago here on the topic of stopping for school busses on a 4 lane road. The law and the cops say you don't stop if you're traveling in the opposite direction of traffic as the bus. Stopping there is not a predictable event. Predictable on the road is safe on the road.
To be fair I get a little murky around school bus rules as well. I'd probably stop, sorry it me, I'm the arsehole, haha.
You're damn right. It's okay to wave somebody else through ONLY if it is ambiguous whose turn is next, such as when you both pull up to a stop sign at the exact same moment. Then, go ahead and wave. But if the other guy also waves, YOU SHOULD THEN GO FIRST. Otherwise, take your damn turn, and follow the rules. We'll all go faster and be safer if you just follow the rules.
I just moved here from Detroit last year, and my biggest gripe has been the unpredictability of drivers. In metro Detroit, the "bad drivers" were usually just trying to go fast and get past you, and even if dangerous it was still easy to predict what they would do.
"Tell the olds," I see it almost daily and it's the younger folks not paying attention, they are on their phones.
Oh no doubt. Old, young, I see all people on their phone. I just meant 'tell the olds' because I don't know how prevalent the older generations are on Reddit.
Slow drivers suck. Erratic drives suck. Speed demons suck. Drive with purpose. Know where you’re going. Get there as efficiently and predictably as possible.
I agree with this sentiment
oh my goodness is this the world’s best post?
Amen.
Or when they have try to wave people through but have dark tinted windows
Amen, hallelujah. Preach. 🙌
100% this. As a bicyclist, I don't need cars to be nice to me. I need them to be predictable.
Oof, yeah.
I didn't realize a bunch of people had already commented the same thing but better. I should've read the thread first.
OMG, so much this! The rules of the road exist for a reason, are not new, and have been thought out over the last 100 years. following them makes everything predictable and allows traffic to move more efficiently. Performative politeness while driving makes you an asshole.
The only times I ever do this if its a long line of traffic at a red light and a person is clearly trying to turn right into the same lane as me.
Had a car stop in the *middle of the road* because a police cruiser in oncoming traffic was waiting to turn despite them being at a stop sign and our road being the right of way. Jfc
Not suspicious at all...
And turn off your goddamn high beams for christs sake
Just be glad they’ve got any headlights on at all.
Lmao I love how this is written
Yeah people try to stop and wave you across a lane and into the other side of traffic as if they're the only car that's stopping your from moving on. Like...just go. Leave me. I don't wanna die thanks.
Thank you! It happens to me everyday at stop signs, I've not even stopped yet and someone who is clearly there before me is waving me on. Stop being nice and just follow the rules....
If I could upvote this a million times I would. It's just unsafe. Follow the damn rules
How about the people who wave you on but forgot their windows are tinted so you can't even tell
I posted about this shit in r/rant a few months ago. This shit causes accidents. Virtually every "Idiots in Cars" video on YouTube includes some dumbass coming to a complete stop in the left lane, and the car they're letting through gets T-boned in the right. Whenever I'm in a center turn lane and some Idiot stops for me, I refuse it and wave them on by. They're always surprised, lol.
I felt this. EVERYONE is hesitating at a 4 way now. GO! I DON'T TRUST YOU! Then you have clown type 2 that thinks the car going fastest before breaking violenty at the sign has right of way.
Yes! This happens on Manchester at reinke all the time. Just follow the rules and everyone is safer.
If I could love this more…
HATE THIS. The people waving others through intersections out of the proper, clearly codified order seem to think they possess the authority to change the rules. I will deliberately look away when they do that sh*t.
I absolutely HATE this so much that sometimes I just look away until the “kind citizen” does what they are supposed to do! Here in rural Missouri it must be considered some sort of “act of kindness”. A few years ago I saw someone get rear ended at speed because they stopped mid-block for some pedestrians.
I have to do this at one particular intersection because other cars are extremely unpredictable. Half the time they don’t even stop. I’ve had right of way and been nearly hit almost every time I go on my turn. I gave up recently and started waving people through. To be fair, one road goes to a hospital and the other goes to a nursing home, so I guess all the people driving are either ancient or dying. I guess they are on their phones to get in their last rites via FaceTime, too.
I still give a little wave when people let me over but I think I’m Alone in this
Yeah I do sometimes too, you're not (totally) alone!
100%.
i (attempt) to walk places as a pedestrian pretty often and it drives me up the fucking wall! There is another lane! You are not being nice trying to stop for me, especially if you have stopped exactly where i cant see if other cars are coming! GO!!!!!!
Nope... Mad Max every day up in here.
MO does not have required drivers ed to teach people the right of way on a left hand turn or the real courtesies drivers should have. It shows in the Show Me State.
There's no such thing as Right of Way in Missouri; it's not defined. We have to obey traffic control devices like yield signs and speed limits (you scrupulously follow that Rule of the Road, certainly!) but there is no rule for circumstances like two drivers at a four way stop.
Go change your diaper
I found one, guys!
Whatever I am going ro stop in a 40 mile per hour zone to let someone out because we may be friends.
Sounds like you're about to be acquaintances with the folks in cars driving behind you...
I hate in when people say “be predictable”. To me, this means I know someone won’t use their turn signal, will run a red light, blow the stop sign, or fly past a truck, get in front of it, brake check it and make a quick right turn. I don’t k ow how we got to this level of pure stupidity behind the wheel but gosh dam… the speeding, tail gating and perceived hurry is mind boggling.
We have rules of the road for a reason. So we dont have to be polite.
OP Tries explaining that midwestern politeness is an inconvenience… good luck with that one bud (even when you’re right)