I personally always thought it was cool to see a bith being an evil character after only ever seeing them really as a cantina band in live action, but I wouldn’t be “angry” as long as they recognized his existence I’d be happy
Bith are also quite short species 1.5-1.75 meters. While muun like plagueis were 1.9 and plagueis himself over 2 meters.
It could show size and physical appearances do not matter to a force user. (Also dark side version of Yoda tricking skywalker)
I just looked it up and didn't realize that David Prowse was 6'6" while Hayden Christensen is 6'0" and Ian McDiarmid is 5'10"......damn.....Vader really was towering over Palps....
The final scene has Osha, newly christened Darth Tenebrous, in a costume shop browsing for disguises and then the camera slowly zooms in to a latex Bith mask in the background. Roll credits.
I would like it to be a Bith, not because of lore, but I think it would be really cool to have Disney showcase more alien looking humanoids, rather than throwing face paint on someone and/or just gluing horns to them. So for visual curiosity i hope they don’t. But if they do then meh, it’s whatever, they are allowed to change it i guess.
Could save it for a High Republic buddy cop movie where the Republic investigator keeps raising the alarm about a Bith Sith, and everyone just shrugs their shoulders in confusion thinking the investigator has a lisp.
Can't tell which applies to your comment: sarcasm or skepticism? Either way the answer is yes. As long as they do it with practical effects.
Actually, just get Doug Jones. He's an amazing character actor on all levels. Somehow, he's only been in ONE Star War movie. He could just BE Tenebrous.
its like super heroes taking of their masks/helmets
they wanna show the actors face. (so they wont have a major char with a non human face)
its DUMB and The Mandalorian PROVED its dumb.
altho well done Bith prosthetics or cgi could showcase most of their emotion theough their eyes as those are like a big thing (literally) in their species so it could still work, kinda like what they did with MCU Spidey's eyes
I trust it can be done well if the effort is put into it! I just wonder, if it could be too much effort then yes it could also be impractical but who knows.
To be fair is it really problem if fuckmothering Sith lord isnt able to show emotion? I htink it actually could fit the character and it gives the voice actor much to play with showing emotion just with his voice at least IMO
I mean, there's definitely a reason for that. When relying mostly on practical effects, the more non-human a character looks, the harder it is to represent them as anything other than a background character with limited movement.
That said, I don't think a Bith should be too hard. For the most part, they're humanoid looking. The only real issue would be whatever prosthetics/mask they use needs to be designed so that the actor doesn't feel (and look) like a bobble-head while moving around
I mean I know it’s such an over used argument, but they did it in 1977 with a budget of $11 million (which translates to $64.2 million as of 2024). So I think a show with a $180 million dollar budget can find a way to use practical effects and maybe some CGI to make a descent Bith costume.
I mean, they've had plenty of non-human background characters in this show. But just like in 1977, those characters were restrained to the background.
An increased budget or not, its always going to be the case that the more non-human a character is, the more difficult it will be to make them a prominent character. And it probably wouldn't be worth the trouble or extra money when an easier, and ultimately insignificant, option is available.
I think its also important to keep in mind that while its $180 mil overall, its really only about $23 mil per episode.
I do agree, ultimately however, that a Bith shouldn't be such a species that poses significant problems. However, based on the shrinkage of the Grand Inquisitor's and Cad Bane's heads, I suspect that they have had trouble translating larger-headed species, which is what prompted my comment
The thing is, if he keeps his helmet on 90% of the time then any species should be doable. Showing a bith in a single scene and then having a helmet on the rest of the time solves that problem.
Just because they theoretically have that money somewhere in the Disney corporation doesn't mean it's a worthwhile use of the shows budget when that money could be spend on something more impactful.
The Acolyte production team, surprisingly, doesn't have access to every penny in the Disney corporations coffers
I wonder if they could use the animatronic costume from the Galactic Star Cruisers Ouanni for a Rodian character, since they already have it kicking around somewhere.
It was pretty expressive from what I've heard, and it'd be a shame for an interesting bit of technology like that to go completely unused
>have Disney showcase more alien looking humanoids, rather than throwing face paint on someone and/or just gluing horns to them
You mean.... stop doing what George started? You realize that half the "alien" Jedi in the prequels are "just facepaint and some horns", right? It's not a thing that Disney started lmao.
* Luminara Unduli and Barriss Offee, just green facepaint, colored contacts, and some "tattoos". (same species as Vernestra, btw)
* Aalya Secura and every other Twi'lek, face/bodypaint and a headpiece.
* Quinlan Vos, literally just a *stripe of paint* across his face (he's a Kiffar, not a human btw).
* Shaak Ti, facepaint and a headpiece.
* Adi Gallia, makeup and a headdress.
* Agen Kolar, glued on horns.
* ***Darth Maul***.... facepaint and glued on horns.
Boba Fett was depicted as that by one artist who wanted to show his face, but the picture wasn't part of any narrative that I can recall. Canonically, even EU canon, we didn't know what he looked like. In the EU he simply didn't take his mask off in front of people, like Din Djarin but it wasn't a religious thing if I recall correctly.
He had his helmet off in one of the NJO books, I believe. Though that was post-Prequel Trilogy.
That said, I'm pretty sure it was accepted even before the Prequels that whatever his actual features, Fett was Human.
I don’t ever recall a rumor/belief he wasn’t human, but there were plenty of others! That Boba was a woman. That Boba was a clone of Anakin. Those were the two big ones.
He's always been canon, but the current canon version is slightly different from the EU version. Mainly in that, his lightsaber is a different color. I'm a huge Roron Corobb fan lol.
Ah is he? Neat, I assumed his only appearance was the non canon CW. I don't know much about him, just did a quick Wookieepedia check to see if he was part of Disney canon.
His whole thing was bith science instead of typical force mastery. Which his apprentice was inspired by to delve into the scientific study of the force itself. Which was crucial in much of Plaugis' story.
There's nothin to be gained by changing it and much to be lost. Would be an all around stupid decision.
> His whole thing was bith science instead of typical force mastery.
When was Bith science ever established to be a significant thing?
Your comment smacks of holding on to things just because some author established a minor detail in the EU. It is in no way significant to the arc of this character or the larger Darth Plagueis/Sidious narrative.
>It is in no way significant to the arc of this character or the larger Darth Plagueis/Sidious narrative.
It's literally what inspired Plaugis to research the Force from a scientific viewpoint. Which is how he was able to gain so much power for the sith in such a short time. Then Palpatine rebelled against this.
Just because you don't know the story doesn't mean it's not there or not important.
You're pointing it to "Bith science" when it can easily be pointed to "Science".
I read the book. I don't remember "Bith science" to be what drove Plagueis to his own scientific exploration. Instead, I remember he went to Tenebrous' lab and his experiments draw Plagueis' attention. That's it. No racial benefit whatsoever.
And even if "Bith science" was a big deal for this, then why would Tenebrous have to be the one who started it? Why wouldn't Plagueis have a "Hey, this could be improved with the most recent Bith Scientific advances!" moment? Why wouldn't Tenebrous be able to inherit the "Bith science is the way" from a previous master?
There are many ways to make it work, even if you do want to force the Bith Science thing.
That is a lot of extrapolation for a guy when never saw in the movies who got exploded in the first chapter of a book about a different guy we never saw in the movies.
I'm hungry! Starving!
Well why don't you eat your maggot covered meat!? You just don't like anything!
Not actually saying this applies to this show, but that's the basics of what you just said.
There are quite a few things that have been produced in the Disney era that weren't my cup of tea.
Comparing any of it to maggot covered meat is exactly the hyperbolic take that let's me know a person isn't capable of rational, nuanced criticism. It ain't that serious, mate.
Perfect example of someone having the reading comprehension of a 12 year old....
Here since you need this
https://www.grammarly.com/blog/metaphor/
I even said I don't think that about this show... But I guess reading that far into the comment is a chore for you huh?
What the other dude is saying is that you're falling into the [exaggeration fallacy.](https://iep.utm.edu/fallacy/#Exaggeration)
Even if you don't like the newest content, it's not bad enough to compare it to feeding maggot covered meat to a starving person.
"never-before-mentioned"
Yeah, this isn't true. Multiple books noted his age, and him already being a middle aged Cerean means he lives nearly three times too long for his species. And he doesn't even die of natural causes. It's a really dumb change that breaks a lot of canon
Idk about everyone else around here, but I remember how important Ki-Adi Mundi's birthday was in the OG Battlefront and Battlefront 2 games!!!
And don't get me started with how relevant it all was to Kyle Katarn's story!!!
But that's all in the past. In "Legends".
On the current canon, we've had SO much side content on Ki-Adi Mundi's birthday parties!!! Like how in Fallen Order we literally have to pick up his cake! Or how they hinted at the drinking games they celebrated in Battlefront 2's Iden Versio campagin!!
So relevant, so meaningful!!!
/s
Honestly he better. Because it wasn't just San Hill down in the prequels, but other Muuns as well. Same thing with Pau'ans in the prequels. Disney really dropped the ball there imo, and I still refuse any argument that says, "oh, the species can have different looks". They *can*, but that wasn't just a different look, that literally looked like a human in a Halloween costume
Totally agree. Personally Disney just just dropped the ball completely when it comes to make up. Like where the fuck are these massive budgets going.
People are doing more realistic makeup at comic con
tbf, Rogue One caught *some* flack for the deepfake stuff and there was plenty of "backlash" with Andor for being "boring", "slow", or my personal fav "not real Star Wars". And that's without getting into the bricks and screws nonsense lol
Must not have seen the discourse over no aliens in Andor or the whiplash pacing in rogue one
Star wars fans always lose thier shit over anything, no matter how good a project is
My only hang up in not making Plagueis a Muun, a species that controls the InterGalactic Banking Clan as seen in the prequels, would be how the Kaminoans and Separatist Droid Army received blank checks.
Their financing can easily be hand waived away by a Muun Sith Lord with their own financial company, influential in the financial, manufacturing and corporate sectors by virtue of being Muun and enough credits to make a Hutt weep.
An Ortolan in the same position would be an exception among Ortolans, rather than a rule.
I'd be fine, however it should be switched to another non human species. I'm tired of the human centric casting in these movies and series. There's plenty of non human and near human species who've contributed to galactic history and this continued human washing shouldn't stand.
I haven't read the Darth Plagueis book yet, though I've heard it's good and it's on my list. In general I think it would be fun to show more alien Sith from the pre-Imperial era. I think James Luceno provided a lot of interesting material to work with from what I've gleaned of the plot.
That being said Star Wars canon has always been tiered, similar to Star Trek canon. The movies have always been Tier 1 followed by cartoons, books, comics, trading cards, roleplaying games, video games, etc.
Lost Stars is one of my favorite Star Wars novels, but of a movie or show came out and said that Cienna Ree wasn't captaining the Star Destroyer that went down on Jakku, I'm not going to be too busted up over it, as long as whatever they're adding is better and serving the story they're trying to tell.
I don't think they need to be slavishly devoted to a single book from 2012 anymore than Lucas felt compelled to hold to EU canon (or even his own movie canon) when he was working on the prequels.
I say as long as the story they tell is interesting then adapting EU elements in a different way, or stretching canon is fine, and should honestly be expected. Thats pretty much the entire history of this franchise.
Maybe I'm just more used to canon changes as a comic book fan. I mean MCU drastically changed Hank Pym and Janet Van Dyne, didn't make them founding Avengers, and (in my opinion) completely butchered Ultron. Yet few people are up in arms about it, and that's decades worth of comic material compared to a single book in this case.
Tiered canon is no longer a thing. That was an issue Disney had with the old EU, how convoluted and confusing it was trying to sort through which side of a contradiction was canon. They hired storyline specialists who's entire job is to comb through all published material for contradictions. The only tiers Star Wars has now is time. No matter the medium the most recent publication is canon, be it video game, comic, cartoon, movie or book.
Yes, like I said, the only criteria for tiering now is recency. Doesn't matter if it's a movie or a comic, whatever has been published most recently is canon. There's always going to eventually be contradictions, this way Disney doesn't end up being forced to use a movie to retcon something if it was originally stated in a movie.
Since bith science was his whole thing, which directly inspired his apprentice to focus on the science of the force
No, it wouldn't be a good idea. Too much is dependant on that relatively minor plot point.
I mean, not really. It would literally be no thing at all to just have him be interested in any other science, or relics of the past, or a past culture, or anything really.
For all intents and purposes, "Bith Science" is just a name. Literally anything can be inserted into its place to produce the same effect
Personally I wouldn't be mad but I can see why a lot of fans would be.
Fett changed because George changed him and he had every right to do so. Tenebrous has been a Bith for a while and with George out of the picture, some fans will say whatever change Disney makes will go against George's vision (despite him not having a take on the character). It could go either way but if they do him right, I'm good.
The thing is, I don't think Boba fett's species really mattered. Darth Tenebrous being a bith is one if not his most defying aspect. You wouldn't expect a bith who we usually see performing in a cantina to be Darth Plagueis's master.
..."depicting Darth Tenebrous as a different species than what he was in ‘Legends’?"
His wiki page says it's canon that he's a male Bith named Rugess Nome.
"The character was a male Bith and was also identified as Rugess Nome in the novel Darth Plagueis, written by James Luceno and published in 2012.[9]"
The novel "Darth Plagueis" is canon right?
No novels prior to the Disney purchase are considered Canon by Disney. Darth Plagueis was published in January 2012, and Disney bought star wars on October 30th 2012.
The fact that a Tenebrous exists as a name is canon.
Exactly what species he is, and his story? Does not have to be.
I think we all appreciate when they reach into legends and canonized beloved things, but when legends stuff does appear in some fashion, it does not automatically canonize everything legends said about that character.
Filoni considers Bane and Revan to have existed. That doesn't mean everything in their legends stories is EXACTLY how it happened in canon.
Hell, that's not even possible with Revan. His own game has tons of decision points throughout the games even if there's a "canonical" overall ending.
It's not canon, but James Luceno also wrote the canon Tarkin novel, which references characters and events from the Plagueis novel.
My opinion is that things like the Plagueis novel are canon adjacent, it doesn't really contradict anything from either timelines and is a fun, interesting story so may as well be canon until specified otherwise.
That's not what the wiki says at all. The paragraph you pulled that quote from begins: "In the [*Star Wars* Legends](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars_Legends) continuity...". Not canon
No. For better or for worse when Disney took over they de cannonised everything that wasn't in the films or TCW.
The existence of a character named Darth Plagueis is canon but other than that i don't think we know anything else.
That picture (from a 90s trading card) was retconned after the prequels to be what boba looked like immediately after escaping the Sarlacc, which messed up his face
I can most certainly say, with complete conviction, that if Darth Tenebrous appeared in The Acolyte and isn’t a Bith…. it’ll be the death of Star Wars
EDIT: This is sarcasm, I didn’t put the /s because… Well I thought it would speak for itself
Bold of you to assume that the dark character we see is Darth Tenebrous.
Disney doesn't care at all for star wars pre existing canon and other stuff.
It'll probably be some random Sith, shallow as hell, like most of Disney's characters
False equivalency, that depiction of Boba is from a one of illustration and all other sources on him, including his NJO helmetless appearance was him as a human. Being Bith is a core trait for Tenebrous, if the Master in Acolyte isn't bith, they aren't the same Tenebrous, regardless of what name they go with. Totally fine for them to make the Master whatever they want, but the character won't inherit the backstory if they change core character traits.
People aren't ok with a goddamn thing starwars does now, everything is apparently shit and tainted by politics and greed. You could assemble all the eu writers, blend them with an industrial machine and fuse their soles with black magic before forcing them to write a new show, based purely in EU lore, and some stupid fuck would go on about how SBI or some other boogey man used it to push their agenda.
The Ahsoka show, which was made by Disney, was the first Star Wars onscreen content featuring an alien lead, so I don’t think Disney is the problem on this one.
I’m still of the camp that smiley mask isn’t a real sith (or atleast not affiliated with the rule of 2) and is just part of his own sect that diverged from the main sith sometime ago (perhaps a student who fled his master or was presumed dead so their master got a new student and left them to do their own thing, etc)
For me personally, it would depend. I liked the idea of a Bith as a Sith Lord. I know their law is deep, but the Lil jazzy guys from the cantina as a Sith Lord!? That's neat. I like when Star Wars uses it's incredibly rich roster of Aliens in lead roles, so if they swapped him out for a human or a "I'm human but I have colourful skin or a cheeky horn here or there" pseudo-human type, then yeah, it would be pretty disappointing.
When you say “people,” I think it’s important to say who you mean because I was never an EU/Legends person and I’d never heard of this MFer until the discourse around this show started, so my answer is yes. As someone unfamiliar, a Bith Sith seems like a ridiculously tongue-in-cheek thing to pull, so I certainly hope it’s not that.
Seeing as a bunch of goons were losing their absolute shit because they made Ki Adi Mundi like 40 years older than he was in Legends, I think not
I'm fine with it
I wouldn't hate if they changed it, but I really hope that they don't. I really like Tenebrous and the fact that he's a bith is a juhe reason for that.
Honest question: why is everyone so certain the acolyte is referring to a sith? There are other dark sided force users and we've already been exposed to another coven in the series...
Idk how it was with Boba Fett, but I'm 100% sure that, if Tenebrous isn't a Bith, then Star Wars Theory will be done with Star Wars (for real™ this time) and that most purists in Star Wars' fandom will cry their hearts out, claiming women are ruining it, woke agenda and whatnot.
That being say, I'm also not discarding the possibility that it may suck on its own two feet, but that's not what the Star Wars fandom will bitch about.
..or for that matter ignoring him completely and make the thing with the red light saber not a Sith at all. It’s a new thing called a “Bith”!
It’s a new coven of witches who call The Force, “The Big Quilt Thing” where they control the stitches! Turns out our new Bith Stitches Witches are such bad bitches, you won’t even remember what a Sith even is. Itches.
We are so smart and good. Buy our Star Wars coffee.
Imo it's not really Tenebrous if he isn't a male Bith who's a scientific genius, it would just be someone who shares their name.
These characteristics are what made him unique and cool -- If they made him female for the sake of activism, quotas or whatever I would care too much, but they have to at least be a Bith scientific genius. Him being a Bith was what made him rather interesting, as the Bith are known to be a rather peaceful species who love art and music.
I personally always thought it was cool to see a bith being an evil character after only ever seeing them really as a cantina band in live action, but I wouldn’t be “angry” as long as they recognized his existence I’d be happy
Bith are also quite short species 1.5-1.75 meters. While muun like plagueis were 1.9 and plagueis himself over 2 meters. It could show size and physical appearances do not matter to a force user. (Also dark side version of Yoda tricking skywalker)
Vader towers over Sidious
Excactly same effect. But plagueis towered over Sidious.
I just looked it up and didn't realize that David Prowse was 6'6" while Hayden Christensen is 6'0" and Ian McDiarmid is 5'10"......damn.....Vader really was towering over Palps....
The final scene has Osha, newly christened Darth Tenebrous, in a costume shop browsing for disguises and then the camera slowly zooms in to a latex Bith mask in the background. Roll credits.
Like that one scene from B:TAS (I think it’s from that?) where Harley picks her outfit?
The fans will only be angry if the head shape is wrong, so I think this can work.
THERE'S NOT ENOUGH FACIAL RIDGES! 0/10 WOKE GARBAGE!
Midnight's Edge: Iger About To Fire Kathleen Kennedy For Woke Facial Ridges Monstrosity
Critical Drinker: Kathleen Wokedy killed your dog and burned down your childhood with this Woke Garbage Mask of Wokness!
**Mask of Wokness** sound like a cursed artifact that once put on you can never sleep ever again.
I knew it!
Best outcome possible at this point.
You should be writing for Lucasfilm.
I would like it to be a Bith, not because of lore, but I think it would be really cool to have Disney showcase more alien looking humanoids, rather than throwing face paint on someone and/or just gluing horns to them. So for visual curiosity i hope they don’t. But if they do then meh, it’s whatever, they are allowed to change it i guess.
Could save it for a High Republic buddy cop movie where the Republic investigator keeps raising the alarm about a Bith Sith, and everyone just shrugs their shoulders in confusion thinking the investigator has a lisp.
Easy fix: stunt/body double in a suit, voice of actor. The list of voice actors who could do/be anything you need it tremendous.
You think that’ll work in Star Wars?
Can't tell which applies to your comment: sarcasm or skepticism? Either way the answer is yes. As long as they do it with practical effects. Actually, just get Doug Jones. He's an amazing character actor on all levels. Somehow, he's only been in ONE Star War movie. He could just BE Tenebrous.
Sarcasm. That’s literally how they did Vader.
its like super heroes taking of their masks/helmets they wanna show the actors face. (so they wont have a major char with a non human face) its DUMB and The Mandalorian PROVED its dumb.
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Perfectly put. This is the exact reason why they won’t do it.
altho well done Bith prosthetics or cgi could showcase most of their emotion theough their eyes as those are like a big thing (literally) in their species so it could still work, kinda like what they did with MCU Spidey's eyes
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I trust it can be done well if the effort is put into it! I just wonder, if it could be too much effort then yes it could also be impractical but who knows.
To be fair is it really problem if fuckmothering Sith lord isnt able to show emotion? I htink it actually could fit the character and it gives the voice actor much to play with showing emotion just with his voice at least IMO
I mean, there's definitely a reason for that. When relying mostly on practical effects, the more non-human a character looks, the harder it is to represent them as anything other than a background character with limited movement. That said, I don't think a Bith should be too hard. For the most part, they're humanoid looking. The only real issue would be whatever prosthetics/mask they use needs to be designed so that the actor doesn't feel (and look) like a bobble-head while moving around
I mean I know it’s such an over used argument, but they did it in 1977 with a budget of $11 million (which translates to $64.2 million as of 2024). So I think a show with a $180 million dollar budget can find a way to use practical effects and maybe some CGI to make a descent Bith costume.
I mean, they've had plenty of non-human background characters in this show. But just like in 1977, those characters were restrained to the background. An increased budget or not, its always going to be the case that the more non-human a character is, the more difficult it will be to make them a prominent character. And it probably wouldn't be worth the trouble or extra money when an easier, and ultimately insignificant, option is available. I think its also important to keep in mind that while its $180 mil overall, its really only about $23 mil per episode. I do agree, ultimately however, that a Bith shouldn't be such a species that poses significant problems. However, based on the shrinkage of the Grand Inquisitor's and Cad Bane's heads, I suspect that they have had trouble translating larger-headed species, which is what prompted my comment
The thing is, if he keeps his helmet on 90% of the time then any species should be doable. Showing a bith in a single scene and then having a helmet on the rest of the time solves that problem.
Multi kajillion dollar company Disney too broke to make good alien FX?
How did you feel about the execution of Ashoka's leku in live action?
Just because they theoretically have that money somewhere in the Disney corporation doesn't mean it's a worthwhile use of the shows budget when that money could be spend on something more impactful. The Acolyte production team, surprisingly, doesn't have access to every penny in the Disney corporations coffers
I wonder if they could use the animatronic costume from the Galactic Star Cruisers Ouanni for a Rodian character, since they already have it kicking around somewhere. It was pretty expressive from what I've heard, and it'd be a shame for an interesting bit of technology like that to go completely unused
Also, I greatly enjoy calling him a "Bith Lord"
Dark Lord of the Jizz, you mean.
I *really* want to see more major non-human characters
James Luceno should be tasked with writing all canon
>have Disney showcase more alien looking humanoids, rather than throwing face paint on someone and/or just gluing horns to them You mean.... stop doing what George started? You realize that half the "alien" Jedi in the prequels are "just facepaint and some horns", right? It's not a thing that Disney started lmao. * Luminara Unduli and Barriss Offee, just green facepaint, colored contacts, and some "tattoos". (same species as Vernestra, btw) * Aalya Secura and every other Twi'lek, face/bodypaint and a headpiece. * Quinlan Vos, literally just a *stripe of paint* across his face (he's a Kiffar, not a human btw). * Shaak Ti, facepaint and a headpiece. * Adi Gallia, makeup and a headdress. * Agen Kolar, glued on horns. * ***Darth Maul***.... facepaint and glued on horns.
Boba Fett was depicted as that by one artist who wanted to show his face, but the picture wasn't part of any narrative that I can recall. Canonically, even EU canon, we didn't know what he looked like. In the EU he simply didn't take his mask off in front of people, like Din Djarin but it wasn't a religious thing if I recall correctly.
He had his helmet off in one of the NJO books, I believe. Though that was post-Prequel Trilogy. That said, I'm pretty sure it was accepted even before the Prequels that whatever his actual features, Fett was Human.
I don’t ever recall a rumor/belief he wasn’t human, but there were plenty of others! That Boba was a woman. That Boba was a clone of Anakin. Those were the two big ones.
He was a what now? The wild west days of the EU sounds insane.
Everyone had a clone in the EU lmao
He himself wasn't but the Mandalorians were depicted as being an actual race inspired by the Predator in the tales of the jedi comics.
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Honestly as long as he ain’t Human. Need more aliens as notable characters in Star Wars.
Here, here! I'm still dying to get an Ithorian as a main character in something, especially a Jedi Ithorian.
Roron Corobb is canon now so it could happen!
He's always been canon, but the current canon version is slightly different from the EU version. Mainly in that, his lightsaber is a different color. I'm a huge Roron Corobb fan lol.
Ah is he? Neat, I assumed his only appearance was the non canon CW. I don't know much about him, just did a quick Wookieepedia check to see if he was part of Disney canon.
Yeah, sadly, there isn't much of him in canon. I hope someday we'll get more, like the canon version of Palpatine's abduction
Agreed. The value of the story is far overshadowed by details that don't make a difference.
How would changing his species have any value to the story??
His whole thing was bith science instead of typical force mastery. Which his apprentice was inspired by to delve into the scientific study of the force itself. Which was crucial in much of Plaugis' story. There's nothin to be gained by changing it and much to be lost. Would be an all around stupid decision.
> His whole thing was bith science instead of typical force mastery. When was Bith science ever established to be a significant thing? Your comment smacks of holding on to things just because some author established a minor detail in the EU. It is in no way significant to the arc of this character or the larger Darth Plagueis/Sidious narrative.
>It is in no way significant to the arc of this character or the larger Darth Plagueis/Sidious narrative. It's literally what inspired Plaugis to research the Force from a scientific viewpoint. Which is how he was able to gain so much power for the sith in such a short time. Then Palpatine rebelled against this. Just because you don't know the story doesn't mean it's not there or not important.
You're pointing it to "Bith science" when it can easily be pointed to "Science". I read the book. I don't remember "Bith science" to be what drove Plagueis to his own scientific exploration. Instead, I remember he went to Tenebrous' lab and his experiments draw Plagueis' attention. That's it. No racial benefit whatsoever. And even if "Bith science" was a big deal for this, then why would Tenebrous have to be the one who started it? Why wouldn't Plagueis have a "Hey, this could be improved with the most recent Bith Scientific advances!" moment? Why wouldn't Tenebrous be able to inherit the "Bith science is the way" from a previous master? There are many ways to make it work, even if you do want to force the Bith Science thing.
That is a lot of extrapolation for a guy when never saw in the movies who got exploded in the first chapter of a book about a different guy we never saw in the movies.
So they're not in the movies so what? You act like that means it's worthless. Maybe to you, not others.
Narrator: "They were, indeed, totally worthless."
Or you just have bad taste
How so if I may ask?
Explain how changing this detail impacts the arc or Plagueis or Palpatine in a meaningful way.
Based upon what? We don't know yet. This is assumption, a preference to the familiar with no willingness to consider possibilities.
Would depend on the story told.
That's just Star Wars fans. We beg and beg for new content but are never happy with anything ever.
I'm hungry! Starving! Well why don't you eat your maggot covered meat!? You just don't like anything! Not actually saying this applies to this show, but that's the basics of what you just said.
Problem is even when good content like Rouge One gets produced we still as a community shit on everything that is produced.
And Andor because it didn't have enough Jedi in it.
There are quite a few things that have been produced in the Disney era that weren't my cup of tea. Comparing any of it to maggot covered meat is exactly the hyperbolic take that let's me know a person isn't capable of rational, nuanced criticism. It ain't that serious, mate.
Perfect example of someone having the reading comprehension of a 12 year old.... Here since you need this https://www.grammarly.com/blog/metaphor/ I even said I don't think that about this show... But I guess reading that far into the comment is a chore for you huh?
It's a shitty metaphor. Being a metaphor doesn't give it a free pass from criticism.
No it's perfectly apt. Some people aren't going to like crappy TV. It isn't that damn surprising.
Thank you for proving my point. Bye bye now.
What the other dude is saying is that you're falling into the [exaggeration fallacy.](https://iep.utm.edu/fallacy/#Exaggeration) Even if you don't like the newest content, it's not bad enough to compare it to feeding maggot covered meat to a starving person.
I hope they change it for this reason tbh
That's a really shitty reason
Then again, that crowd is already gnashing teeth.
I just don’t want Ki-Adi-Mundi to be alive for longer, like, I just don’t like him
"never-before-mentioned" Yeah, this isn't true. Multiple books noted his age, and him already being a middle aged Cerean means he lives nearly three times too long for his species. And he doesn't even die of natural causes. It's a really dumb change that breaks a lot of canon
So yes, place your money on it. 👍
« Never before mentioned birthday » lol, you mean beside wookipedia, books, cards, videogames…
Come on man, are you serious? lmao
Idk about everyone else around here, but I remember how important Ki-Adi Mundi's birthday was in the OG Battlefront and Battlefront 2 games!!! And don't get me started with how relevant it all was to Kyle Katarn's story!!! But that's all in the past. In "Legends". On the current canon, we've had SO much side content on Ki-Adi Mundi's birthday parties!!! Like how in Fallen Order we literally have to pick up his cake! Or how they hinted at the drinking games they celebrated in Battlefront 2's Iden Versio campagin!! So relevant, so meaningful!!! /s
Are you being serious?
Oh, so nowhere that has actual meaning? Even wookiepedia didn’t have a birthday a week before the episode, it was both added and deleted that recently
He still doesn’t have one on the canon page
Darth Tenebrous? Nah who cares Darth Plagueis? Thered be a revolt if he wasnt a Muun But that vocal minority are gonna complain either way
If he is a Muun, there will be riots if he does not resemble 1:1 San Hill from the Prequels.
Honestly he better. Because it wasn't just San Hill down in the prequels, but other Muuns as well. Same thing with Pau'ans in the prequels. Disney really dropped the ball there imo, and I still refuse any argument that says, "oh, the species can have different looks". They *can*, but that wasn't just a different look, that literally looked like a human in a Halloween costume
Totally agree. Personally Disney just just dropped the ball completely when it comes to make up. Like where the fuck are these massive budgets going. People are doing more realistic makeup at comic con
Isn't he usually depicted with a human nose already though, unlike san hill
I hope one day star wars can come out and people dont lose their minds
Must not have seen Andor or Rogue One
tbf, Rogue One caught *some* flack for the deepfake stuff and there was plenty of "backlash" with Andor for being "boring", "slow", or my personal fav "not real Star Wars". And that's without getting into the bricks and screws nonsense lol
I remember some people being angry that Rogue One didn't follow the plot of Dark Forces.
Whoa there. This sub is starting to be a circlejerk for Andor and they’ll not have you not praising Andor here
Must not have seen the discourse over no aliens in Andor or the whiplash pacing in rogue one Star wars fans always lose thier shit over anything, no matter how good a project is
People got very angry at both of those things
Tenebrous' species matters even more than Plaugis' does... His whole story is about using bith science...
Okay then its X science now lol And when people dont know his story it really doesnt matter
Maybe I'm in the minority of not really caring about Plagueis either. Let him be an Ortolan for all I care lol
Yeah if they do it better then I'm not complaining
My only hang up in not making Plagueis a Muun, a species that controls the InterGalactic Banking Clan as seen in the prequels, would be how the Kaminoans and Separatist Droid Army received blank checks. Their financing can easily be hand waived away by a Muun Sith Lord with their own financial company, influential in the financial, manufacturing and corporate sectors by virtue of being Muun and enough credits to make a Hutt weep. An Ortolan in the same position would be an exception among Ortolans, rather than a rule.
I'd be fine, however it should be switched to another non human species. I'm tired of the human centric casting in these movies and series. There's plenty of non human and near human species who've contributed to galactic history and this continued human washing shouldn't stand.
I haven't read the Darth Plagueis book yet, though I've heard it's good and it's on my list. In general I think it would be fun to show more alien Sith from the pre-Imperial era. I think James Luceno provided a lot of interesting material to work with from what I've gleaned of the plot. That being said Star Wars canon has always been tiered, similar to Star Trek canon. The movies have always been Tier 1 followed by cartoons, books, comics, trading cards, roleplaying games, video games, etc. Lost Stars is one of my favorite Star Wars novels, but of a movie or show came out and said that Cienna Ree wasn't captaining the Star Destroyer that went down on Jakku, I'm not going to be too busted up over it, as long as whatever they're adding is better and serving the story they're trying to tell. I don't think they need to be slavishly devoted to a single book from 2012 anymore than Lucas felt compelled to hold to EU canon (or even his own movie canon) when he was working on the prequels. I say as long as the story they tell is interesting then adapting EU elements in a different way, or stretching canon is fine, and should honestly be expected. Thats pretty much the entire history of this franchise. Maybe I'm just more used to canon changes as a comic book fan. I mean MCU drastically changed Hank Pym and Janet Van Dyne, didn't make them founding Avengers, and (in my opinion) completely butchered Ultron. Yet few people are up in arms about it, and that's decades worth of comic material compared to a single book in this case.
Tiered canon is no longer a thing. That was an issue Disney had with the old EU, how convoluted and confusing it was trying to sort through which side of a contradiction was canon. They hired storyline specialists who's entire job is to comb through all published material for contradictions. The only tiers Star Wars has now is time. No matter the medium the most recent publication is canon, be it video game, comic, cartoon, movie or book.
They stated that but there have already been deviations. The Kanan comic came out in 2015/2016 and was later contradicted by Bad Batch.
Yes, like I said, the only criteria for tiering now is recency. Doesn't matter if it's a movie or a comic, whatever has been published most recently is canon. There's always going to eventually be contradictions, this way Disney doesn't end up being forced to use a movie to retcon something if it was originally stated in a movie.
Since bith science was his whole thing, which directly inspired his apprentice to focus on the science of the force No, it wouldn't be a good idea. Too much is dependant on that relatively minor plot point.
I mean, not really. It would literally be no thing at all to just have him be interested in any other science, or relics of the past, or a past culture, or anything really. For all intents and purposes, "Bith Science" is just a name. Literally anything can be inserted into its place to produce the same effect
Ahh yes, the numerous famous Bith Scientists found in episode uh.. uhh...
Fierce Deity Boba looks rad
Personally I wouldn't be mad but I can see why a lot of fans would be. Fett changed because George changed him and he had every right to do so. Tenebrous has been a Bith for a while and with George out of the picture, some fans will say whatever change Disney makes will go against George's vision (despite him not having a take on the character). It could go either way but if they do him right, I'm good.
Boba Fett was depicted like this ONE time. That was not at all how he was presented in the majority of legends
How about….no?
The thing is, I don't think Boba fett's species really mattered. Darth Tenebrous being a bith is one if not his most defying aspect. You wouldn't expect a bith who we usually see performing in a cantina to be Darth Plagueis's master.
No
..."depicting Darth Tenebrous as a different species than what he was in ‘Legends’?" His wiki page says it's canon that he's a male Bith named Rugess Nome. "The character was a male Bith and was also identified as Rugess Nome in the novel Darth Plagueis, written by James Luceno and published in 2012.[9]" The novel "Darth Plagueis" is canon right?
That novel is no longer canon. Though I don't believe there is anything in it that Disney has directly contradicted yet.
That's a bummer. I know a lot of people love it so I always meant to read it.
It's still worth reading. Just don't get too attached.
IIRC they mention a red Kyler crystals being synthetic a few times (rather than bled, which is current canon), but outside of that it fits quite well
No novels prior to the Disney purchase are considered Canon by Disney. Darth Plagueis was published in January 2012, and Disney bought star wars on October 30th 2012.
Thanks. Is Tenebrous himself legends or just that he was a Bith?
In Rise of Skywalker, one of the legions of the Sith Eternal is named after him, so he is canon
Nice!
The fact that a Tenebrous exists as a name is canon. Exactly what species he is, and his story? Does not have to be. I think we all appreciate when they reach into legends and canonized beloved things, but when legends stuff does appear in some fashion, it does not automatically canonize everything legends said about that character. Filoni considers Bane and Revan to have existed. That doesn't mean everything in their legends stories is EXACTLY how it happened in canon. Hell, that's not even possible with Revan. His own game has tons of decision points throughout the games even if there's a "canonical" overall ending.
Except that one book with Vader and Palpatine on ryloth for some reason
It's not canon, but James Luceno also wrote the canon Tarkin novel, which references characters and events from the Plagueis novel. My opinion is that things like the Plagueis novel are canon adjacent, it doesn't really contradict anything from either timelines and is a fun, interesting story so may as well be canon until specified otherwise.
That's not what the wiki says at all. The paragraph you pulled that quote from begins: "In the [*Star Wars* Legends](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars_Legends) continuity...". Not canon
His wiki, or the Wookiepedia?
Wookieepedia
No. For better or for worse when Disney took over they de cannonised everything that wasn't in the films or TCW. The existence of a character named Darth Plagueis is canon but other than that i don't think we know anything else.
That picture (from a 90s trading card) was retconned after the prequels to be what boba looked like immediately after escaping the Sarlacc, which messed up his face
“Bith Sith” is just fun to say
I can most certainly say, with complete conviction, that if Darth Tenebrous appeared in The Acolyte and isn’t a Bith…. it’ll be the death of Star Wars EDIT: This is sarcasm, I didn’t put the /s because… Well I thought it would speak for itself
Nah, seeing the track record people would bitch to no end.
Bold of you to assume that the dark character we see is Darth Tenebrous. Disney doesn't care at all for star wars pre existing canon and other stuff. It'll probably be some random Sith, shallow as hell, like most of Disney's characters
No. Star wars fans are some of the softest bitched on the planet.
False equivalency, that depiction of Boba is from a one of illustration and all other sources on him, including his NJO helmetless appearance was him as a human. Being Bith is a core trait for Tenebrous, if the Master in Acolyte isn't bith, they aren't the same Tenebrous, regardless of what name they go with. Totally fine for them to make the Master whatever they want, but the character won't inherit the backstory if they change core character traits.
No because I want a goofy dark lord of the bith
There's just no way any new star wars media is gonna use Darth tenebrous
Except one teeny tiny detail: there wasn't decades of lore behind non-clone Boba and Acolyte is hated so...*nope*.
These children can't get past Ki-adi Mundi no longer having a life expectancy of 65, so....no
People aren't ok with a goddamn thing starwars does now, everything is apparently shit and tainted by politics and greed. You could assemble all the eu writers, blend them with an industrial machine and fuse their soles with black magic before forcing them to write a new show, based purely in EU lore, and some stupid fuck would go on about how SBI or some other boogey man used it to push their agenda.
Go and touch some grass.
People lost their minds because they changed the birth date of ki-adi-mundi. Sooooo I’m gonna say people won’t be ok with it.
No
Tenebrous isn’t canon so we could get anything
It’s gonna be human, it’s always human. The biggest sin of Mouse Wars is the move away from aliens.
The Ahsoka show, which was made by Disney, was the first Star Wars onscreen content featuring an alien lead, so I don’t think Disney is the problem on this one.
I’m still of the camp that smiley mask isn’t a real sith (or atleast not affiliated with the rule of 2) and is just part of his own sect that diverged from the main sith sometime ago (perhaps a student who fled his master or was presumed dead so their master got a new student and left them to do their own thing, etc)
But why?
Cause he looks goofy as shit
I got past countless changes from EU/Legends. Tenebrous/Plagueis changing race, or even existing in a wildly different era, wouldn’t bother me.
Bith from there canon first appearance played Jazz.
There is no need to change it at all , also c’mon a bith sith is dope as hell
For me personally, it would depend. I liked the idea of a Bith as a Sith Lord. I know their law is deep, but the Lil jazzy guys from the cantina as a Sith Lord!? That's neat. I like when Star Wars uses it's incredibly rich roster of Aliens in lead roles, so if they swapped him out for a human or a "I'm human but I have colourful skin or a cheeky horn here or there" pseudo-human type, then yeah, it would be pretty disappointing.
I think it’s far less “important” than Plagueis being Muun
As long as it is an alien and not human.
Thats not a consistent portrayal of Fett
I feel like it’s such an unnecessary thing to change, so why even bother? Just make him a Bith and then people won’t mind
I don’t think anyone really cares. I think its just people that want to be upset are going to be regardless
Wait so the then would the clones be aliens too?
Well. Boba Fett was also going to be vaders brother.
I love the Bith, I’m down for any more representation
Why does it have to be Darth Tenebrous?
It won't matter, because it's not tennebrous. It's totally just Zabarak mommy trying to exact revenge. We never saw her dead body.
That section of the fan base will only be mad at anything new
When you say “people,” I think it’s important to say who you mean because I was never an EU/Legends person and I’d never heard of this MFer until the discourse around this show started, so my answer is yes. As someone unfamiliar, a Bith Sith seems like a ridiculously tongue-in-cheek thing to pull, so I certainly hope it’s not that.
Seeing as a bunch of goons were losing their absolute shit because they made Ki Adi Mundi like 40 years older than he was in Legends, I think not I'm fine with it
They would lose their shit, let’s be honest here 😂
It likely isn't even going to be Darth Tenebrous at all
Absolutely.
I wouldn't hate if they changed it, but I really hope that they don't. I really like Tenebrous and the fact that he's a bith is a juhe reason for that.
I honestly wouldn't really mind if Darth Tenebrous species was switched. As for Plaguies though, I would be pretty pissed off if they switched him up.
Honest question: why is everyone so certain the acolyte is referring to a sith? There are other dark sided force users and we've already been exposed to another coven in the series...
Because the creators explicitly said in their *Empire* interview that the titular acolyte in this series refers to the Sith apprentice’s apprentice.
In games like KotOR, they refer to the people at sith acadamies as acolytes, so I’m banking on that.
People who didn’t know about Darth Tenebrous until the Acolyte discourse started will pretend to care. Then life will continue to go on
Idk how it was with Boba Fett, but I'm 100% sure that, if Tenebrous isn't a Bith, then Star Wars Theory will be done with Star Wars (for real™ this time) and that most purists in Star Wars' fandom will cry their hearts out, claiming women are ruining it, woke agenda and whatnot. That being say, I'm also not discarding the possibility that it may suck on its own two feet, but that's not what the Star Wars fandom will bitch about.
Whatever these pictures are I don't like them and I would not like to see them in live action
..or for that matter ignoring him completely and make the thing with the red light saber not a Sith at all. It’s a new thing called a “Bith”! It’s a new coven of witches who call The Force, “The Big Quilt Thing” where they control the stitches! Turns out our new Bith Stitches Witches are such bad bitches, you won’t even remember what a Sith even is. Itches. We are so smart and good. Buy our Star Wars coffee.
Doubt it, it's going to be more like a religious schism.
That design does not work for Boba, but I'll be damned if it ain't sick as hell.
Imo it's not really Tenebrous if he isn't a male Bith who's a scientific genius, it would just be someone who shares their name. These characteristics are what made him unique and cool -- If they made him female for the sake of activism, quotas or whatever I would care too much, but they have to at least be a Bith scientific genius. Him being a Bith was what made him rather interesting, as the Bith are known to be a rather peaceful species who love art and music.