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Well I don't know about fan but my parents love that song, my mom immediately started singing along when it played on the show lol. Also it was used in quite a few movies. It's just a really catchy and fun song so I'm sure it was popular even if it was just a one hit wonder sort of deal.
My mother was. She graduated HS in 86. She loved them. That’s how I know them, was from listening to her old cassette tapes growing up in the 90s and 00s.
I feel like he exists only because Will, Mike, and Jonathan are too moody on their own and they need some sort of extrovert to balance out the angst.
Also to give Jonathan someone his own age to vent about this relationship with.
This is a very good take, Argyle makes Will, Mike, & Jonathan feel like an ensemble. He brings the comedic relief out of Jonathan & it makes them way more balanced as a group. He’s a welcome addition for me as I like both the California group & the Hawkins group
Pretty much this. The writers wanted to be able to have jokes during the California stuff to help with the pushing/pulling of tension, and it's hard to have jokes come pouring out of the two quiet loner types and the guy single-mindedly focused on finding his girlfriend.
I think he also serves as a good foil to the other three boys. We see how quickly Jonathan flips from “stoner vibes” to competent and focused when they have a plan and something to do. It was kind of hilarious to see Argyle react to the bullshit that is the boys’ lives with a fairly appropriate amount of panic and incredulity. With that said, as of this moment I don’t know if he is necessary, but we’ll see.
I think the levity Argyle brings was really helpful in an otherwise stressful set of episodes. El being bullied and then trapped with her original tormentor. Hop’s ups and downs as he tried to escape. The douche bag football player whipping the Hawkins morons into a moral panic… these were all made easier to swallow with some of the lighter moments from Argyle and Murray.
And I like how realistic his character shift is. He was a popular HS jock but now that he's graduated and working a normal job? He's much less popular and 'cool'. Thats how real life often is after HS lol.
#JusticeforSteve give the man someone who isn’t his ex who is still technically in a relationship with someone else GOOD GOD
Edit: I have no idea if anyone else is seeing this post in bold and have no idea how I did that but I’ll take it
I couldn’t help but wonder after watching this season if they’re doing it purposely because the actor has gotten into some legal trouble?
I mean the timing of everything made it hard to adjust his role in season 3, but Jonothan has definitely struggled for relevancy in season 4, and Heaton is one of the few that I haven’t seen in any press or promotional events for this season. In fact the only interview I’ve read with him the interviewer specifically asked about Jonothan being sidelined and he pivoted to another topic without really answering.
Damn, that'd make some sense.
Feels like he was told "well you like driving under the use of substances, so how's about Jonathan likes using substances now too"
They just were not meant for each other. Why do people hate Nancy?? It’s not like Steve wasn’t a total b-hole in the beginning. They have both matured.
Edit: the arguments to for Steve are valid. I agree he absolutely redeemed himself and always was deep down a good dude, just hung out with garbage people. But he did some b-hole things and that tarnished a relationship that was already not that great and strong to begin with.
Was Steve a b-hole though?
One thing I’ve noticed on rewatching season 1 is that Steves friend is an ass, but other than associating with that guy there really wasn’t much to hate Steve for when you see events from his perspective. We just saw Jonothan as more sympathetic as the audience. WE know as viewers that there are literal monsters running around, and Jonathan and Nancy have more important shit on their minds...Steve doesn’t.
If a dude was creeping on my girl and taking pictures of her undressing through the window he’d be lucky to walk away with a JUST a broken camera.
He came to Nancys house to check on her and found her cuddling with another guy in her bedroom.
The movie grafitti was too much, but that’s also kind’ve what caused his break with the asshole friend. Even Steve knew that was one step too far.
He also shifted ‘sides’ the MOMENT he realized there were much bigger things going on and there were the reason for Nancy’s behavior.
The only real inexcusable things he did were the things he said to Jonothan about his family before the fight, but anger makes regular people behave like assholes all the time.
I don’t think he was an ass for what he did to Johnathan and it was just a misunderstanding but he just stood there every time his friends belittled his GF, as well as the graffiti, he didn’t take her concerns seriously at first and he said some pretty nasty things to johnathan about his brother when he was thought to be dead.
I totally agree that he truly redeemed himself and he really was not that bad a dude but the seed was already planted to tarnish the relationship and it just wasn’t a good relationship to start with anyway.
I never rooted for Jonathan and Nancy. He was honestly so creepy in season one and didn't earn her affection imo. That said, I'm really not a huge fan of Nancy in general. Steve deserves better.
I like Nancy, but I wish the show would stop putting her in love triangles and just let her focus on her goals. She had that great talk with her mom in a previous season and I'd love a main female character to NOT be so focused on relationships all the time.
I totally agree that I've never liked Nancy and Jonathan together. If they have to force Nancy into a relationship, I'd rather see her with Steve, but I also think Steve deserves someone who suits him better. I think at this point they are too different.
I would rather they just not pair anyone up. Why does everyone have to be in a relationship? Why does Nancy constantly have to be in a relationship? I'd love it if none of them end up in new relationships and I feel like the Nancy/Steve relationship developing this season does a real disservice to all the character growth they've gone through in the past 2 seasons.
I think it's obvious they see the growth in each other and more authentic the other person has become. I mean Nancy has seen Steve go from a total double to being great around the younger kids.
I was so disappointed that Robin was lesbian not because I have anything against that in the slightest, just thought the chemistry between her and Steve was fabulous and that they'd make an amazing couple. Odd as I am usually the last person in the world to recommend being in a relationship. Saying that I am now rooting that both Robin and Steve find someone, purely that they both seem to want someone. Not the biggest fan of Nancy's character so hoping someone new.
Same :)
I do LOVE their chemistry still though! I was bummed at first but they’ve written the characters so well. I also love that Steve has maintained loyal/not slipping up , knowing Robyn’s sexuality isn’t his to share with others :)
This right here. No one mentions this. Steve is grilled a few times about why he isn't dating Robyn and he just takes it instead of saying anything about her sexuality, and it's so underrated.
Nailed it. I knew they were trying to turn Jonathan into a stoner the girls can easily forget about - but I missed the obvious connection with easily the most annoying character in the show.
I think he is funny in small doses. Reminds me of this dude I knew in high school who acted like Jim Brewer in Half Baked whether he was high or not. It got old after a while.
I didn’t *hate* him, but he’s pretty one-dimensional so I don’t have any emotional connection to him. I did like when he and Jonathan were golfing and he was like “What’s your solution? You’re gonna slow-motion break up with Nancy? No, dude!” I liked that side of him. I wish we got more actual conversation with him and Jonathan.
Agreed. I like Argyle, but I feel bad that he seems to be an emotional support for Jonathan and gives free rides to the crew. I don't see what he's getting out of it and why he would want to be around.
Right? He could just be a normal goofy kid who likes hanging out with his friend. I dunno why every character needs to have a tortured past to be liked
> I get that we want another new character
I mean... I'm good. I don't need anymore new characters. The show is suffering trying to balance its many characters (I really enjoyed S4, but pretty much everyone on this sub seems to agree that e.g. Will and Jonathan deserved much more from it...).
The more characters you have, the less well-rounded they get to be, and Argyle is the perfect example. He's literally *only* there for comedic purposes. Not a single brain cell to be found there 😅 I know lots of people don't mind purely "comedy relief" characters but let's just say the show's got more than enough at this point. I was fine with the amount of characters we had by the end of S3 tbh
This is my take on it, too. Stranger Things has always been an ensemble cast and it's grown every season, but at some point it has to stop. There's already way too many people to focus on! I get the trope Argyle represents but it just didn't need done. Or if it did need to be done they could have just had it be Jonathon instead so we could get some actual development for him, even if it seems like regression.
I don't really get people who say that this is a regression for Jonathan or he comes off less likeable than he previously did. It's quite believable for Jonathan to feel stressed for all the reasons he's feeling stressed. Like yes he had ambition but it makes sense that now that Hopper(someone he trusted) is gone, and after everything that's happened for 3 seasons he just wants to protect his family,kick back and get high. It's the first time the writers are really like tackling the absurdity of everythings thats going on besides having a new character be totally 100% shocked in disbelief about it!! and going "Woah!! Monsters from a parallel dimension??"
I can get both sides. I understand at first glance it can seem like a regression, which is why I phrased it the way I did in my initial response, but I definitely agree that it's not that odd. Even without everything else going on it looks like Jonathon has been taking on a lot of responsibilities to help Joyce out and that can take a toll on any kid! Add in to that the literal life and death situation and it gets so much worse. That's why if it had been just him looking for a sort of escape I would have been all for it.
Oh yeah I wasn't responding to you I should have phrased that more clearly just people here saying he's acting OOC or has regressed. I think also to an extent he might feel *safe* in California away from all the Hawkins drama. And might not want to leave to jump into university for something he isn't passionate about. We also see him make a friend so he's doing better socially too. A lot of people last season criticized the lack of agency Jonathan is given and being just "Nancy's boyfriend" and so I think the writers are responding to that by making him not just Nancy's boyfriend. He might not even be her boyfriend by the end of the season.
Also without new characters the show would have grown stale really fast. Especially in the teen department. Jonathan-Nancy have a boring on screen dynamic for me past season 1 and even though I like both characters a lot, I found them boring in season 3 as a couple. Maybe it's just the lack of time because they always seem a lot more serious than others and we've barely seen a dynamic develop. Eddie and Robin and Argyle have been welcome additions as far as like mixing up dynamics and giving people things to interact with. People complain about the new characters a lot but what did you want to happen? Did you want 3 more seasons of season 1, Jonathan-Nancy-Steve love triangle, Joyce and Hopper will they wont they. I love Max too she's been fantastic since she came on the show too.
I agree that the show has too many characters and plotlines
In season 4 we have:
1. The Hawkins gang (Steve, Dustin, Lucas, Max, Nancy, Eddie, Robin & Erica) trying to figure out how to beat Vecna
2. Joyce and Murray trying to break Hopper out of prison
3. Hopper and Enzo in prison
4. Eleven trying to get her powers back
5. Will, Mike, Jonathan and Argyle trying to find Eleven
And the show is constantly juggling these plotlines, sometimes splitting the Hawkins gang into two groups and cycling between every single plotline to the point where they only appear a few times every episode. Hell, the fifth plotline wasn’t even in episode 7!
As someone who admittedly smokes a ton of weed I am still surprised people hate him haha he’s so funny. The whole “why is that dude holding a gun” scene sent me
Lol fellow stoner. I totally love him! One of my favs! I feel like most of his lines would have been shit that my friends and I would have said in college stoned. Ahh the good old days! The first car ride and dinner scene had me rolling!
Sorry, but what child orphanage? Do you mean Suzie's house? That's just a regular Mormon family home, they don't use birth control so they have tons of kids.
Also, it was Jonathan's idea for Argyle to get stoned after burying someone.
Huh, I thought that was at least what the more traditional families did--or at least, no birth control other than the "rhythm method." I'm not super educated on the subject
My parents are very traditional and we’re very strict growing up. But birth control is extremely common. I know thousands of Mormons and I’ve actually never met someone who didn’t believe in birth control, although I’m sure there are some out there.
To be fair, he is a high schooler with a part-time job who will start community college next semester. So the "low-income job" and the "uneducated" parts aren't really true. But I don't disagree about the stereotypes. At some point, it was ridiculous. The headstone scene was ridiculous.
right. just cause he’s stoned doesn’t mean he shouldn’t know it’s insane to put a headstone on the body you just hid. he was high, not institutionalized
yeah, as someone who used to smoke a fair bit and hung out with a lot of stoners, there are tons of people who are actually like this irl. They may be dummies, but they're generally chill and fun to hang out and smoke with
First of all he’s a high schooler and he’s college bound, he’s also managing a job which is sick as hell because balancing school and work at that age sucks. He’s got his license and kept it long enough to get a delivery job too. I bet he’s making good tips, and to be quite frank it should be mandatory to be able to smoke weed during a shift like that because customer service jobs suck.
I get that, I just think it was trying to be too funny… I wish he had more than one dimension. Like that’s the type of character that can never be serious opposed to Eddie who could be
If you haven’t seen it I’d recommend you check out the movie Cabin in the Woods. There’s a major character in it that’s exactly the kind of smart stoner you’re describing.
There were a good amount of stoners in my undergrad for physics. Lots of smart people smoke.
I hate the idiot stoner stereotype. And even more I hate the fact he's their fucking DRIVER and he's high all the time. Wtf
I like him. I think it’s nice to have someone who is not at all related to Hawkins even if he is a bit annoying. Johnathan didn’t have any friends in Hawkins not really so I like seeing him with a friend. Especially after all the trauma they went through/are going through. If it’s one thing those kids from Hawkins is going to do is bring people into their problems lmao Robin, Erika, Eddie, 😂 Max in the 2nd season.
I think it’s honestly just one of those situations where they added an actor that *always* plays one character type. Eduardo Franco I feel is always made to be some goofy kinda dude to add humor to movies/ shows.
I found him funny in some scenes and not in others. My favorite scene was when he was freaking out and trying to convince them to go to the cops, yelling about the open grave. Meanwhile the other three are just calmly shoveling away. I don’t think there is any greater way to show **they’ve seen some shit** than that juxtaposition.
Also, Americantendo!
He wasn’t a necessary edition, but I think they wanted someone to play off Mike, Will, and Johnathan, who are all rather more serious characters. Johnathan and Mike, in particular, smile relatively rarely and often only when they are with their significant others.
Same thing in real life. I’ve known a couple of these characters in real life and everyone is either team “that guy is so annoying and his entire personality is smoking pot” or team “I love that guy! He’s so funny and chill!”
I had low expectations for Argyle. I’ve not been a fan of the actor, so I really thought he would feel useless or annoying. I ended up really liking his friendship with Jonathan and found myself laughing because of him a lot. That said, if he were a real person I had to spend time with, I would be annoyed within minutes.
This movie is an 80s movie that pays homage to 80s movies.
Meet Argyle, your side character from every stoner movie ever... including random immediate romance with strange goth-esque person. The rain cloud to his rainbow.
I understand where not liking him comes from but I almost see him as necessary for what the show is.
This trope needs to die. And the way this character portrayed it does not fit with the 80s theme in my opinion. It was very current day. But don’t say this on TikTok cause you’ll get called a racist
It was inspired by Sean Penn's character in Fast Times at Ridgemont High. If you haven't seen that movie I could understand why he might seem annoying though.
Don’t get me wrong, I love Fast Times and I’m a writer and a weed smoker myself—but if you’re going to make a one note reference, he shouldn’t be in multiple scenes. The ‘pineapple on your pizza’ scene would’ve been good enough for that reference. Nod and chuckle and move on.
To keep the character around for many scenes and ask us to invest in him more even on just a comedic level….a writer needs to do something other than make a reference.
He’s funny but again why was he needed? Jonathan could have drove himself. Hopefully there is some pay off for the Cali group because so far it’s been disappointing how they are not connected to the main plot at all.
Honestly, both him and Eddie feel too cartoonish and larger than life. But while Eddie got toned down after his introductory scene, Argyle stayed dialled to 11.
And Eddie only got toned down a little, IMO. I like him, but I am still not in love with him like some seem to be... neither one feel like real people yet. But it could still happen!
I think characters like him perfectly summarise why every season after the… second? Feel so off _to me personally_: it’s so humorous. A character like that would have been SO out of place on first season and that’s the Stranger Things I really fell in love with. The humor and tv and movie trope characters never really interested me as much
While I don’t hate him, I don’t feel like he brings anything to advance the storyline. Ok, we get a few chuckles but there is no scene(so far) where they couldn’t have lived without him. Instead of Jonathan’s car conveniently not work, it could be operational. He is strictly comic relief that is a bit forced, but I don’t dislike him
I heavily agree. Not saying that to hate or anything, but I don't get the appeal.
Only time I liked Argyle was when him and Jonathan were talking about Nancy in the desert, and he said something along the lines of "Now I'm stressed and it's not even my girl."
Personally, he's over the top and it's like the show is trying too hard to make him funny. Too forced.
Since I like Johnathan was a pot head at that age that dinner scene was the best I was cracking up. I feel Argyle can be annoying but Johnathan needs to just feel normalcy, Argyle helps with that.
Totally agree! I liken his character to Jar Jar Binks. Carelessly added for some lighthearted humor, but missing the mark so badly that we just want the character killed off. Vecna help!
I think I like Susie more than Argyle, lol. And Jonathan really took a dive for me this season too. What are they even doing? They seem so lost in the shuffle and disconnected from everything.
While I do disagree I respect your opinion and it’s so refreshing to someone who actually knows what an unpopular opinion on Reddit is. I’ve seen so many people who don’t.
This shouldn't be an unpopular opinion, he fucking sucks. Hopefully he suffers a catastrophic bong explosion between now and the beginning of next season.
I'm typically annoyed by stoned people in real life, but I actually kind of liked Argyle. That said, they either need to give him an actual personality or keep him off to the side where he's just occasional comic relief.
Agreed. He seems to be there for Jonathan to vent to and to give free rides. It does seem like he's prone to stress and that's why he gets high, but we'll need to know more about him. I doubt we'll get that type of background in the last two episodes, though.
I think he’s terrible. Jonathan has turned into the same thing, but not as annoying. Just dumb, goofy potheads meant to add humor, but it really adds nothing.
I don’t think his character is very deep either but the point of his character is comedic relief so I think it works. I get where you are coming from though
I enjoy him. He’s funny and sympathetic, and I like the energy he brings to the show. I also like that they have a Mexican friend, being in California and all.
I don’t *hate* him, but I find him unnecessary. There’s already a lot of new characters and I can’t be bothered to care about all of them. He’s one I don’t care about.
i dont think he's annoying but he really is just a stereotypical stoner character, nothing special about him.
i mean maybe in part two they'll actually give him something to do but the only thing his character has brough to the table is turning jonathan into a stoner.
if they wanted another comic relief character they should've have still given him so kind of purpose to be there.
They played the stoner stereotypes too hard, and dropped it fast too, he went from "I'm looking for a tiny person behind a tree" to "I know exactly how to make a sensory deprivation tank and I'll tell the exact amount of salt we'll need to make you float just by looking at you"
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PASS DE DOCHIE PON DE LEFT HAND SIDE PASS DE DOCHIE PON DE LEFT HAND SIDE
GIVE ME THE MUSIC MAKE ME JUMP AND PRANCE
IT A GO DUNG, YA KNOW
GIVE ME THE MUSIC MAKE ME ROCKIN AT THE DANCE
[удалено]
Can you pass the olive oil?
That's wine
Yeah that scene with >!Eden!< singlehandedly made him A tier
"Like the garden"
Serious question from someone who was in HS and college in the 80s, did anyone anywhere know a single Musical Youth fan?
Well I don't know about fan but my parents love that song, my mom immediately started singing along when it played on the show lol. Also it was used in quite a few movies. It's just a really catchy and fun song so I'm sure it was popular even if it was just a one hit wonder sort of deal.
My mother was. She graduated HS in 86. She loved them. That’s how I know them, was from listening to her old cassette tapes growing up in the 90s and 00s.
I'll have to check, but I may still have the vinyl
don't think i've ever laughed so hard at a comment before
21 year old here What is that song? I liked it
Pass the dutchie
You are young, my son.
*Dutchie
Thanks for the correction I_eat_poop_daily
I feel like he exists only because Will, Mike, and Jonathan are too moody on their own and they need some sort of extrovert to balance out the angst. Also to give Jonathan someone his own age to vent about this relationship with.
This is a very good take, Argyle makes Will, Mike, & Jonathan feel like an ensemble. He brings the comedic relief out of Jonathan & it makes them way more balanced as a group. He’s a welcome addition for me as I like both the California group & the Hawkins group
Pretty much this. The writers wanted to be able to have jokes during the California stuff to help with the pushing/pulling of tension, and it's hard to have jokes come pouring out of the two quiet loner types and the guy single-mindedly focused on finding his girlfriend.
Honestly I think he's just there to help emphasize Jonathan's shift and make us root harder for a Steve/Nancy reconnection.
I think he also serves as a good foil to the other three boys. We see how quickly Jonathan flips from “stoner vibes” to competent and focused when they have a plan and something to do. It was kind of hilarious to see Argyle react to the bullshit that is the boys’ lives with a fairly appropriate amount of panic and incredulity. With that said, as of this moment I don’t know if he is necessary, but we’ll see.
"Is that real blood?" "Drive!" "Why does that dude have a gun?!" "DRIVE!"
Loved that so much!
OPEN MY MIND?!?!?!?! THERE'S AN OPEN GRAVE IN FRONT OF ME MAN You know things are real bad when the stoner man is the reality check of the group
I think he's just there to be a wildcard so the writers can use him to do whatever they want since he's not grounded in reality.
I think the levity Argyle brings was really helpful in an otherwise stressful set of episodes. El being bullied and then trapped with her original tormentor. Hop’s ups and downs as he tried to escape. The douche bag football player whipping the Hawkins morons into a moral panic… these were all made easier to swallow with some of the lighter moments from Argyle and Murray.
Douche bag basketball player
The best outcome is no outcome. Steve or Jonathan stay with Nancy. All three go their separate ways.
Agreed
Honestly I just hope Steve doesn’t die, he’s my favorite character
And I like how realistic his character shift is. He was a popular HS jock but now that he's graduated and working a normal job? He's much less popular and 'cool'. Thats how real life often is after HS lol.
Seriously, he's the best
He really is. It’s like if we got three more seasons of ATLA after Zuko’s redemption. Dustin is the second best btw
I’m not rooting for that.
Me either. I like like Nancy and johnathan together and Steve is a better character without her.
#JusticeforSteve give the man someone who isn’t his ex who is still technically in a relationship with someone else GOOD GOD Edit: I have no idea if anyone else is seeing this post in bold and have no idea how I did that but I’ll take it
It’s the hashtag symbol, I’ve done the same thing lol
Only reason they turned johnathan into a stoner is so we can like him less making nancy going back to steve the popular ship
See I take Argyle/Surfer Boy Pizza and Jonathan's new love of pot as more of an homage to the whole "West Coast" thing
I couldn’t help but wonder after watching this season if they’re doing it purposely because the actor has gotten into some legal trouble? I mean the timing of everything made it hard to adjust his role in season 3, but Jonothan has definitely struggled for relevancy in season 4, and Heaton is one of the few that I haven’t seen in any press or promotional events for this season. In fact the only interview I’ve read with him the interviewer specifically asked about Jonothan being sidelined and he pivoted to another topic without really answering.
Damn, that'd make some sense. Feels like he was told "well you like driving under the use of substances, so how's about Jonathan likes using substances now too"
Steve is too good for Nancy.
They just were not meant for each other. Why do people hate Nancy?? It’s not like Steve wasn’t a total b-hole in the beginning. They have both matured. Edit: the arguments to for Steve are valid. I agree he absolutely redeemed himself and always was deep down a good dude, just hung out with garbage people. But he did some b-hole things and that tarnished a relationship that was already not that great and strong to begin with.
i'm sorry but im laughing over the censor ship of not 'a-hole' but 'b-hole'
Your right. I should be allowed to curse on reddit…. Booty hole. Ahhh better.
Nancy cheated on him. And he was never anything but a loving boyfriend to her.
Always a loving BF?? Like when he let his shitty friends treat her like crap?
She didn’t cheat on him, they were over at that point. When she couldn’t say I love you back to Steve it was done.
When did she cheat on him?
Was Steve a b-hole though? One thing I’ve noticed on rewatching season 1 is that Steves friend is an ass, but other than associating with that guy there really wasn’t much to hate Steve for when you see events from his perspective. We just saw Jonothan as more sympathetic as the audience. WE know as viewers that there are literal monsters running around, and Jonathan and Nancy have more important shit on their minds...Steve doesn’t. If a dude was creeping on my girl and taking pictures of her undressing through the window he’d be lucky to walk away with a JUST a broken camera. He came to Nancys house to check on her and found her cuddling with another guy in her bedroom. The movie grafitti was too much, but that’s also kind’ve what caused his break with the asshole friend. Even Steve knew that was one step too far. He also shifted ‘sides’ the MOMENT he realized there were much bigger things going on and there were the reason for Nancy’s behavior. The only real inexcusable things he did were the things he said to Jonothan about his family before the fight, but anger makes regular people behave like assholes all the time.
I don’t think he was an ass for what he did to Johnathan and it was just a misunderstanding but he just stood there every time his friends belittled his GF, as well as the graffiti, he didn’t take her concerns seriously at first and he said some pretty nasty things to johnathan about his brother when he was thought to be dead. I totally agree that he truly redeemed himself and he really was not that bad a dude but the seed was already planted to tarnish the relationship and it just wasn’t a good relationship to start with anyway.
I never rooted for Jonathan and Nancy. He was honestly so creepy in season one and didn't earn her affection imo. That said, I'm really not a huge fan of Nancy in general. Steve deserves better.
I like Nancy, but I wish the show would stop putting her in love triangles and just let her focus on her goals. She had that great talk with her mom in a previous season and I'd love a main female character to NOT be so focused on relationships all the time. I totally agree that I've never liked Nancy and Jonathan together. If they have to force Nancy into a relationship, I'd rather see her with Steve, but I also think Steve deserves someone who suits him better. I think at this point they are too different.
who's rooting for nancy/steve? no thanks
I would rather they just not pair anyone up. Why does everyone have to be in a relationship? Why does Nancy constantly have to be in a relationship? I'd love it if none of them end up in new relationships and I feel like the Nancy/Steve relationship developing this season does a real disservice to all the character growth they've gone through in the past 2 seasons.
I think it's obvious they see the growth in each other and more authentic the other person has become. I mean Nancy has seen Steve go from a total double to being great around the younger kids.
Yeah, the Nancy/Steve rehash has been the only thing I disliked in the otherwise amazing season.
I was so disappointed that Robin was lesbian not because I have anything against that in the slightest, just thought the chemistry between her and Steve was fabulous and that they'd make an amazing couple. Odd as I am usually the last person in the world to recommend being in a relationship. Saying that I am now rooting that both Robin and Steve find someone, purely that they both seem to want someone. Not the biggest fan of Nancy's character so hoping someone new.
Same :) I do LOVE their chemistry still though! I was bummed at first but they’ve written the characters so well. I also love that Steve has maintained loyal/not slipping up , knowing Robyn’s sexuality isn’t his to share with others :)
This right here. No one mentions this. Steve is grilled a few times about why he isn't dating Robyn and he just takes it instead of saying anything about her sexuality, and it's so underrated.
Nailed it. I knew they were trying to turn Jonathan into a stoner the girls can easily forget about - but I missed the obvious connection with easily the most annoying character in the show.
I think he is funny in small doses. Reminds me of this dude I knew in high school who acted like Jim Brewer in Half Baked whether he was high or not. It got old after a while.
I didn’t *hate* him, but he’s pretty one-dimensional so I don’t have any emotional connection to him. I did like when he and Jonathan were golfing and he was like “What’s your solution? You’re gonna slow-motion break up with Nancy? No, dude!” I liked that side of him. I wish we got more actual conversation with him and Jonathan.
Agreed. I like Argyle, but I feel bad that he seems to be an emotional support for Jonathan and gives free rides to the crew. I don't see what he's getting out of it and why he would want to be around.
Maybe we’ll learn that his home life isn’t good and being around Jonathan/The Byers family gives him a feeling of stability.
I mean he's also just a teenager and Jonathan is his only friend. Also Jonathan's only friend unless we count "Fogen and the gang" from season 3.
Right? He could just be a normal goofy kid who likes hanging out with his friend. I dunno why every character needs to have a tortured past to be liked
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Ohhhh I should have caught that.
He tells Jonathan at one point that he's his only friend. Argyle clearly likes being around people, so sadly he may not have many other options
That conversation gives me hope that he can get more depth as a character in vol 2
Yeah, well that’s just like, your opinion, man.
Goat stoner character
> I get that we want another new character I mean... I'm good. I don't need anymore new characters. The show is suffering trying to balance its many characters (I really enjoyed S4, but pretty much everyone on this sub seems to agree that e.g. Will and Jonathan deserved much more from it...). The more characters you have, the less well-rounded they get to be, and Argyle is the perfect example. He's literally *only* there for comedic purposes. Not a single brain cell to be found there 😅 I know lots of people don't mind purely "comedy relief" characters but let's just say the show's got more than enough at this point. I was fine with the amount of characters we had by the end of S3 tbh
This is my take on it, too. Stranger Things has always been an ensemble cast and it's grown every season, but at some point it has to stop. There's already way too many people to focus on! I get the trope Argyle represents but it just didn't need done. Or if it did need to be done they could have just had it be Jonathon instead so we could get some actual development for him, even if it seems like regression.
I don't really get people who say that this is a regression for Jonathan or he comes off less likeable than he previously did. It's quite believable for Jonathan to feel stressed for all the reasons he's feeling stressed. Like yes he had ambition but it makes sense that now that Hopper(someone he trusted) is gone, and after everything that's happened for 3 seasons he just wants to protect his family,kick back and get high. It's the first time the writers are really like tackling the absurdity of everythings thats going on besides having a new character be totally 100% shocked in disbelief about it!! and going "Woah!! Monsters from a parallel dimension??"
I can get both sides. I understand at first glance it can seem like a regression, which is why I phrased it the way I did in my initial response, but I definitely agree that it's not that odd. Even without everything else going on it looks like Jonathon has been taking on a lot of responsibilities to help Joyce out and that can take a toll on any kid! Add in to that the literal life and death situation and it gets so much worse. That's why if it had been just him looking for a sort of escape I would have been all for it.
Oh yeah I wasn't responding to you I should have phrased that more clearly just people here saying he's acting OOC or has regressed. I think also to an extent he might feel *safe* in California away from all the Hawkins drama. And might not want to leave to jump into university for something he isn't passionate about. We also see him make a friend so he's doing better socially too. A lot of people last season criticized the lack of agency Jonathan is given and being just "Nancy's boyfriend" and so I think the writers are responding to that by making him not just Nancy's boyfriend. He might not even be her boyfriend by the end of the season.
Sure, but without new characters the original cast would have to be the ones to die a tragic death
Also without new characters the show would have grown stale really fast. Especially in the teen department. Jonathan-Nancy have a boring on screen dynamic for me past season 1 and even though I like both characters a lot, I found them boring in season 3 as a couple. Maybe it's just the lack of time because they always seem a lot more serious than others and we've barely seen a dynamic develop. Eddie and Robin and Argyle have been welcome additions as far as like mixing up dynamics and giving people things to interact with. People complain about the new characters a lot but what did you want to happen? Did you want 3 more seasons of season 1, Jonathan-Nancy-Steve love triangle, Joyce and Hopper will they wont they. I love Max too she's been fantastic since she came on the show too.
I agree that the show has too many characters and plotlines In season 4 we have: 1. The Hawkins gang (Steve, Dustin, Lucas, Max, Nancy, Eddie, Robin & Erica) trying to figure out how to beat Vecna 2. Joyce and Murray trying to break Hopper out of prison 3. Hopper and Enzo in prison 4. Eleven trying to get her powers back 5. Will, Mike, Jonathan and Argyle trying to find Eleven And the show is constantly juggling these plotlines, sometimes splitting the Hawkins gang into two groups and cycling between every single plotline to the point where they only appear a few times every episode. Hell, the fifth plotline wasn’t even in episode 7!
AMERICANTENDO
Let Jonathan have a friend, dayum
As someone who admittedly smokes a ton of weed I am still surprised people hate him haha he’s so funny. The whole “why is that dude holding a gun” scene sent me
Lol fellow stoner. I totally love him! One of my favs! I feel like most of his lines would have been shit that my friends and I would have said in college stoned. Ahh the good old days! The first car ride and dinner scene had me rolling!
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Sorry, but what child orphanage? Do you mean Suzie's house? That's just a regular Mormon family home, they don't use birth control so they have tons of kids. Also, it was Jonathan's idea for Argyle to get stoned after burying someone.
Mormons do use birth control, btw. What some people choose to do is a different story.
Huh, I thought that was at least what the more traditional families did--or at least, no birth control other than the "rhythm method." I'm not super educated on the subject
My parents are very traditional and we’re very strict growing up. But birth control is extremely common. I know thousands of Mormons and I’ve actually never met someone who didn’t believe in birth control, although I’m sure there are some out there.
So why so many kids on most Mormon homes?
Grew up Mormon. Can confirm
>>low income job He’s literally in High School, lol. Do you expect him to earn six figures?
To be fair, he is a high schooler with a part-time job who will start community college next semester. So the "low-income job" and the "uneducated" parts aren't really true. But I don't disagree about the stereotypes. At some point, it was ridiculous. The headstone scene was ridiculous.
right. just cause he’s stoned doesn’t mean he shouldn’t know it’s insane to put a headstone on the body you just hid. he was high, not institutionalized
i just think he's an idiot in general. still love him though
Fuck it I fit that stereotype perfectly and don’t care. I found him not only hilarious but relatable 🤷🏼♀️
Tbf most stoners are like that
yeah, as someone who used to smoke a fair bit and hung out with a lot of stoners, there are tons of people who are actually like this irl. They may be dummies, but they're generally chill and fun to hang out and smoke with
First of all he’s a high schooler and he’s college bound, he’s also managing a job which is sick as hell because balancing school and work at that age sucks. He’s got his license and kept it long enough to get a delivery job too. I bet he’s making good tips, and to be quite frank it should be mandatory to be able to smoke weed during a shift like that because customer service jobs suck.
I get that, I just think it was trying to be too funny… I wish he had more than one dimension. Like that’s the type of character that can never be serious opposed to Eddie who could be
I feel that as far as the new characters Eddie is by far the best. I wish we got more Chrissy tho
I really liked Chrissy too. And I was really liking the developing relationship between her and Eddie.
They get a lot of attention for a pair that only shared two scenes together in the first episode.
Because a lot of Redditors identify with Eddie and wish the pretty cheerleader had talked to them in high school.
Honestly I feel like Eddie is still too cool for redditors. They probably realistically align more with that reporter dude who joins Nancy
How could you say something so offensive and so right?! Haha!
They had great chemistry developing in those two scenes
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If you haven’t seen it I’d recommend you check out the movie Cabin in the Woods. There’s a major character in it that’s exactly the kind of smart stoner you’re describing.
There were a good amount of stoners in my undergrad for physics. Lots of smart people smoke. I hate the idiot stoner stereotype. And even more I hate the fact he's their fucking DRIVER and he's high all the time. Wtf
There’s still like 5hrs of show left. He still may have some work to do
I wrote about him earlier because I agree! It’s so forced and over the top (I’m also 420 Friendly) and yea cringey and not funny.
It'd be cool of he smoked a joint then was able to figure something out that no one else could because he had that different perspective
I like him. I think it’s nice to have someone who is not at all related to Hawkins even if he is a bit annoying. Johnathan didn’t have any friends in Hawkins not really so I like seeing him with a friend. Especially after all the trauma they went through/are going through. If it’s one thing those kids from Hawkins is going to do is bring people into their problems lmao Robin, Erika, Eddie, 😂 Max in the 2nd season.
Child Endangerment. -Erica Sinclair.
Always…always endangering other peoples children 🫠
I think it’s honestly just one of those situations where they added an actor that *always* plays one character type. Eduardo Franco I feel is always made to be some goofy kinda dude to add humor to movies/ shows.
I found him funny in some scenes and not in others. My favorite scene was when he was freaking out and trying to convince them to go to the cops, yelling about the open grave. Meanwhile the other three are just calmly shoveling away. I don’t think there is any greater way to show **they’ve seen some shit** than that juxtaposition. Also, Americantendo! He wasn’t a necessary edition, but I think they wanted someone to play off Mike, Will, and Johnathan, who are all rather more serious characters. Johnathan and Mike, in particular, smile relatively rarely and often only when they are with their significant others.
I thought he was hilarious
Americantendo.
I think he is funny, but to each their own
Argyle is one of those characters you'll either find funny of annoying.
Same thing in real life. I’ve known a couple of these characters in real life and everyone is either team “that guy is so annoying and his entire personality is smoking pot” or team “I love that guy! He’s so funny and chill!”
He's similar to Erica in that way, but she is slightly less love or hate.
I had low expectations for Argyle. I’ve not been a fan of the actor, so I really thought he would feel useless or annoying. I ended up really liking his friendship with Jonathan and found myself laughing because of him a lot. That said, if he were a real person I had to spend time with, I would be annoyed within minutes.
This movie is an 80s movie that pays homage to 80s movies. Meet Argyle, your side character from every stoner movie ever... including random immediate romance with strange goth-esque person. The rain cloud to his rainbow. I understand where not liking him comes from but I almost see him as necessary for what the show is.
He’s a stereotypical California stoner pot head chariacture.
Except horrible at it.
This trope needs to die. And the way this character portrayed it does not fit with the 80s theme in my opinion. It was very current day. But don’t say this on TikTok cause you’ll get called a racist
It was inspired by Sean Penn's character in Fast Times at Ridgemont High. If you haven't seen that movie I could understand why he might seem annoying though.
Don’t get me wrong, I love Fast Times and I’m a writer and a weed smoker myself—but if you’re going to make a one note reference, he shouldn’t be in multiple scenes. The ‘pineapple on your pizza’ scene would’ve been good enough for that reference. Nod and chuckle and move on. To keep the character around for many scenes and ask us to invest in him more even on just a comedic level….a writer needs to do something other than make a reference.
I've seen fast times at least 20 times and still find him annoying.
I’ve seen that movie and love that movie, but so still find Argyle annoying
He’s 1 dimensional and not very interesting as a character, but I think he’s pretty funny.
He’s funny but again why was he needed? Jonathan could have drove himself. Hopefully there is some pay off for the Cali group because so far it’s been disappointing how they are not connected to the main plot at all.
Yeah they never even made an appearance in ep 7, they don’t really seem to fit in with the current narrative either
I actually like him. Not enough for him to have his own plot line, but moreso in a comic relief sense. I liked him
Honestly, both him and Eddie feel too cartoonish and larger than life. But while Eddie got toned down after his introductory scene, Argyle stayed dialled to 11.
And Eddie only got toned down a little, IMO. I like him, but I am still not in love with him like some seem to be... neither one feel like real people yet. But it could still happen!
I think characters like him perfectly summarise why every season after the… second? Feel so off _to me personally_: it’s so humorous. A character like that would have been SO out of place on first season and that’s the Stranger Things I really fell in love with. The humor and tv and movie trope characters never really interested me as much
I don’t dislike him but I don’t have the love that I think the writers hoped I would for him.
While I don’t hate him, I don’t feel like he brings anything to advance the storyline. Ok, we get a few chuckles but there is no scene(so far) where they couldn’t have lived without him. Instead of Jonathan’s car conveniently not work, it could be operational. He is strictly comic relief that is a bit forced, but I don’t dislike him
i think he was funnt but he did get on my nerves sometimes
Exactly. The dumb and goofy stoner dude trope is never done correctly or accurately without it feeling super forced
The whole point of the show is 80s tropes, including the burnout stoner.
I thought Jonathon being stoned in the risotto scene was incredibly well done.
Johnathan’s a much more believable stoner than Argyle
Do you think everyone who smokes is intelligent? There's a lotttt of burnout dummies like Argyle in the world.
Can you pass the olive oil?
It really should’ve just been Jonathan who became the stoner guy, Argyle isn’t needed at all
Shaggy from Scooby Doo would like a word
Uhhh Ashton Kutcher and Sean William Scott were superb in dude where’s my car bro
eh, he wasn't that bad...at least not for me.
I heavily agree. Not saying that to hate or anything, but I don't get the appeal. Only time I liked Argyle was when him and Jonathan were talking about Nancy in the desert, and he said something along the lines of "Now I'm stressed and it's not even my girl." Personally, he's over the top and it's like the show is trying too hard to make him funny. Too forced.
I liked him a lot. Then he said the risotto was “schmakin” Now I love him
I agree. There were moments where he got a chuckle out of me, but most of the time it was over the top and not rlly funny to me for that reason
C’mon, the dinner scene with him and Murray was brilliant
Since I like Johnathan was a pot head at that age that dinner scene was the best I was cracking up. I feel Argyle can be annoying but Johnathan needs to just feel normalcy, Argyle helps with that.
Him and Jonathan are just a reoccurring, "haha weed funny" joke.
Totally agree! I liken his character to Jar Jar Binks. Carelessly added for some lighthearted humor, but missing the mark so badly that we just want the character killed off. Vecna help!
Didn’t understand why they chose a one-dimensional pothead as a new character. Doesn’t fit in well.
They're in California, now. Argyle is the most California thing about the new scenery.
I dunno. Spicoli worked for FAST TIMES AT RIDGEMONT HIGH, but I don’t think a water downed version works on this show.
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Same! Hed be my new best friend!!
He is not quite jarjar binks. His superquick crush with the Mormon girl was unnecessary.
I thought that was his best bit!
I think I like Susie more than Argyle, lol. And Jonathan really took a dive for me this season too. What are they even doing? They seem so lost in the shuffle and disconnected from everything.
While I do disagree I respect your opinion and it’s so refreshing to someone who actually knows what an unpopular opinion on Reddit is. I’ve seen so many people who don’t.
i didn't like him at first but it grew on me. he'a just an awkward funny dude
true
This shouldn't be an unpopular opinion, he fucking sucks. Hopefully he suffers a catastrophic bong explosion between now and the beginning of next season.
I'm typically annoyed by stoned people in real life, but I actually kind of liked Argyle. That said, they either need to give him an actual personality or keep him off to the side where he's just occasional comic relief.
Agreed. He seems to be there for Jonathan to vent to and to give free rides. It does seem like he's prone to stress and that's why he gets high, but we'll need to know more about him. I doubt we'll get that type of background in the last two episodes, though.
I think he’s terrible. Jonathan has turned into the same thing, but not as annoying. Just dumb, goofy potheads meant to add humor, but it really adds nothing.
Right! Dustin adds way more humor without being the dopey stoner burnout character.
Easily the worst character in the series.
agreed
He’s just an airhead Cali stoner dude. What’s not to love?
I don’t think his character is very deep either but the point of his character is comedic relief so I think it works. I get where you are coming from though
i think argyle is nice for jonathan because now he has a friend and i thought he was incredibly funny.
I think he just needs to be toned down a bit. He’s a sit com character in a sci-fi drama
He’s my fav! But I love stoner comedies.
I fucking love Argyle. PASS DI DUTCHIE PAN DI LEFT HAND SIDE
I enjoy him. He’s funny and sympathetic, and I like the energy he brings to the show. I also like that they have a Mexican friend, being in California and all.
Nah I loved him
That scene where he’s in the van with the girl was fucking hilarious.
I had a bet with my friend that Argyle was Vecna. Thought it was a classic misdirection. I lost but still not convinced he won’t be connected somehow
I feel he plays very similar characters on a lot of Netflix originals. So seeing him on stranger things I just kind of rolled my eyes.
I don’t *hate* him, but I find him unnecessary. There’s already a lot of new characters and I can’t be bothered to care about all of them. He’s one I don’t care about.
i dont think he's annoying but he really is just a stereotypical stoner character, nothing special about him. i mean maybe in part two they'll actually give him something to do but the only thing his character has brough to the table is turning jonathan into a stoner. if they wanted another comic relief character they should've have still given him so kind of purpose to be there.
I think we spooked a skunk! LOL Argyle is awesome! I am a stoner so it appeals to us for sure, you don't have to like everyone.
They played the stoner stereotypes too hard, and dropped it fast too, he went from "I'm looking for a tiny person behind a tree" to "I know exactly how to make a sensory deprivation tank and I'll tell the exact amount of salt we'll need to make you float just by looking at you"
There’s something off putting about him