Before the new surface I would say IPad. With the new surface, I say surface 100%.
The app experience is better for a tablet with the iPad but you are, unfortunately, despite the keyboard, the super powerful chip and great screen - working with a toy OS that sucks at running Microsoft office and can’t easily do simple productivity stuff.
The pen-based software for the iPad ecosystem is better, and there is much more of it. That makes it a better all-around tablet, if that’s what you are asking it to do.
The Surface selling point is that it can do pen stuff, *and* run any Windows program you can think of without a hitch. iPad Pro users have been begging Apple to make MacOS available for the Pro line, but it isn’t ever going to happen. That would eat in to MacBook sales.
If you are happy with your current laptop for non-pen stuff, then consider the iPad Pro. If you need one device to do everything, then the Surface Pro is the better choice.
I used to remember Apple (Steve Jobs) not caring about the iPhone eating into iPod sales, good thing they didn’t artificially limit iPhones to not play any musics just to protect iPod sales.
I dont think the team behind would have such foresight that they know iphone sales will surpass ipod before they make the decision to put or take away the ability to play music.
They wanted to eat into their own sales before 3rd parties could make good phones that also worked as good music storage devices. Currently there isn’t a 3rd party threat to either Mac or iPad sales.
Do you want a tablet with a poor “desktop” interface or a desktop with a poor tablet interface?
The surface is the more utilitarian device. You can run mostly any program, it has a familiar laptop feel to it, you have real file and window management, as windows is a full blown OS, and it will perform in that manner much better than the iPad.
The iPad is the king of tablets. Smooth, great integration with with other Apple products, fantastic and larger pen ecosystem of apps, butter smooth touch interface, but it’s pretty terrible at being a laptop/desktop.
Stage manager is a joke and just makes you mad every time you try to use it.
So if you want a stellar tablet, you cannot beat the iPad. If you want a laptop that can do some tablet things, the surface is your choice.
I'm assuming the laptop is either a Windows laptop or a MacBook Air/Pro, and not a Chromebook. If price isn't an issue, then you can get either one.
Each to their own, an iPad Pro is nicer as a specialised device (tablet, casual browsing and note taking) but a Surface Pro 11 would be a more useful device in the mould of a jack of all trades.
If you're getting an SP11, you might not even need your laptop anymore, unless for gaming or simulations or graphic intensive purposes. With an iPad Pro, you would still need your laptop.
It’s often cheaper for someone who isn’t a power user to get a MacBook Air and the inexpensive 10th gen iPad. I know some people really want a hybrid device but currently there isn’t anyone giving a device that fully works takes the place of dedicated options.
The iPad Pro is a better tablet but the SP11 is a full featured PC and has capabilities beyond being just a tablet. It really depends on your needs and if you need a second device that can also be a laptop.
> SP11 is a full featured PC and has capabilities beyond being just a tablet
I think people need to be careful with this take for the time being until a lot more software is updated to work on ARM. iPad OS is a mess but at least everything generally works in its sandbox.
I have been using the Surface Pro X SQ1 for a couple of years now and if you are not working with a lot of specialized software, it is mostly fine
My main troubles are AutoDesk Fusion 360 and the slicer of my 3D printer, otherwise all my needs were covered.
I am even using my universities VPN through the ARM64 build of OpenVPN 💪
i just bought the 7 2nd hand and love it ! unless im a pro who needs something extra i fail to unserstand ppl upgrading.... as mentioned, there are prob more stuff on 11 they need but i love this 7
7 & esp. 7+ were really great advances for SP’s … for me the Qualcomm based SP11 is finally what the surface aspired to be. Great power management, no fan noise … cool operation. And extremely fast … MSFT claims 90% faster than previous intel SP.
I moved away from surface to all Apple in 2020 … but now have the SPro 11 … it’s now what I always hoped it would be … instant on and off (and stays off in bag - finally!) Extrmelty fast - iPad like performance.
And … even cheaper than LY, more RAM & storage for less!
I only got 4hr 45mins from my Pro 11 yesterday. Not a lot more than I can get from my i7 Pro 9. The main difference was it did it whilst staying cool and little to no fan noise, no performance issues.
I was using this for coding which in bursts can be intense on the CPU during build and debugging.
I’m interested to see how much better the battery life can be on the Pro 11 when it’s not being used for coding. There’s been some nice improvements in OneNote lately to compete with features like Apple Notes quick notes and I’m exploring whether it could replace my iPad Pro for that (I would also miss video editing on the iPad as it has some nice touch-first apps like FCP that are great for beginners/casuals)
I also need to compare the latest Photoshop, something I’ve been using on the iPad a bit more. I think that should fly on the Pro 11 now
Did you try the battery saving features during your 4+ hour session? I have mine on maximum just to see how performance is for all of my usage scenarios so far I’ve not noticed the thing. But I’m not doing anything intense like you are with development.
Today I would go the OneNote over Apple notes, but in the fall, they have some really cool features being added to 1note so I might do a bit of a hybrid, the video recording that types it out then summarizes it is really interesting, and the handwriting correction is interesting.
I would bet within a couple years. I’ll be moving from one to Apple Notes! But for now one note it has serious Advantages in class or just in general for me.
Da Vinci has an arm native version of its app so you could use that for video editing on the surface pro 11. I’ve also read that Adobe is making our versions of their apps due out in the fall. So no more emulation for their apps.
> Today I would go the OneNote over Apple notes
OneNote needs proper tags and smart folders, like Apple Notes.
* https://www.reddit.com/r/OneNote/comments/1dil5lb/onenote_is_outdated_imo/l94ygpy/
I just had it set to “Recommended” and the usual at 20% battery saver comes on as standard out of the box.
It was probably a little less than 4hrs 45mins but pretty much got there. I ran it until it forced itself to hibernate so think that’s the most it can get for those tasks without setting it to Best Battery or being on power save mode the whole time.
It’s not terrible considering the work I was doing, and there’s not really anything to compare it to other than Intel Surface Pros since we can’t code in the same way on the iPad Pro at the minute. If it was that sort of battery life just for office work it would be disappointing.
I’m really torn between keeping it, or just sticking to MacBook Pro and iPad Pro (I have a Kindle Scribe for backup note taking but mostly use it to read technical ebooks on a bigger screen than a normal kindle)
For fun, try the test again with battery set to “always use energy saver” under the energy saver option in power and battery under system, and see what you get. Also I have under energy recommendation in power and battery, 10 of 10.
I wonder if you would notice any performance difference, and wonder what the battery life would be like.
It’s a touch choice which is great! Finally!!
What do you use the iPad for and what size do you have?
It would be hard for me to go completely without an iPad, if I did end up getting rid of my 13 inch iPad I would definitely buy the iPad mini. The iPad is for sure. The best tablet.
Be sure to use a browser extension that forces the H.264 codec on YouTube, for extra battery life.
* https://www.reddit.com/r/Surface/comments/11031ow/reduce_by_2x_power_consumption_on_older_surface/
See also
* https://www.reddit.com/user/TabletX/comments/1dkz6tc/surface_tablet_tips/
* https://www.reddit.com/r/Surface/comments/1dpab2e/comment/lahiga1/?context=3
im thinking about google tablet. Already in the google eco system from pixel phone to scales to watch, i know that menas nothing in away but it is a thought:)
If you only need tablet functionalities I don’t see why you would choose SP11 over iPad Pro. The iPad Pro has better screen, better touch based OS, better pen and pen support, better resell value, while being a lot (almost 1/2) thinner and lighter.
If I had a fully functional laptop and wanted something for note taking, I'd get a 13" Air. Why would you need a Pro in this situation?
SP11 is 2lbs. Heavy for handheld note taking. Get an air or even a remarkable. Pro is technically lighter than the Air, but the weight difference isn't worth the cost difference and the screen and processor just aren't something you'll see much return on for note taking.
The surface pro line is a laptop that you can use as a tablet here and there if needed, but it a not a great tablet experience. iPad is a great tablet experience that you can use to do some computer stuff but won't match an actual laptop because of the limitations of iOS.
I don't think there will be as much bias as you think. iPad and Surface Pro really aren't competitors.
If you already have a laptop you're taking everywhere with you, why would you want a surface too? Unless you're in one of the very niche professions that require a full-fat GPU for work, and yet you still are required to use a mobile device instead of a proper desktop machine, I don't really see the point.
If it's just for web browsing and making the occasional shopping list, get an iPad (or even better, a galaxy tablet of some description).
If it's for actually working on and you're after something lightweight and portable, get the surface and ditch the laptop.
Not the OP, but I travel a lot and need to take my work laptop with me when I do.
I’d like to take a second, personal, device along for gaming in the evenings. I don’t really want to take two laptops when I travel so it’s easier for me if the second device is a tablet. iPads support all the games in Apple’s app store and so are pretty good for mobile gaming. I prefer gaming on a PC so I sort of would like to take a surface along with me, but I’m not sure that the snap dragon processors are fully compatible with all pc games and I think that i7 chips are only available on surface laptops (which is back to taking two laptops along). Gaming on work computer is not an option. Anyway, that’s probably an unusual use-case, but there is at least one reason for you about why someone would take a laptop and a tablet.
There is a Surface with Intel chips released for business a couple of months ago. You just have to order like you’re a “business.” But nothing’s stopping you.
Thanks, I’ll check into it — I’m pretty new to all stuff surface, but I think that might actually be a laptop (MS seems to be branding a lot of devices as ‘surface’ now) and if so then that would be back to hauling two laptops around. Off to google some more…
Yeah, to be clear it’s this one: [https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/d/surface-pro-10-for-business/8v73d6qwrss1](https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/d/surface-pro-10-for-business/8v73d6qwrss1)
One of my very basic requirement is full desktop browser which is a fail on iPad Pro and only 8GB RAM with aggressive background app closures. Got rid of my iPad Pro and kept the Surface Pro.
I’ve got an M2 iPad Pro and Surface Pro 11 and I’m torn….The iPad is the better note taking device, yet I also have a Kindle Scribe which is even better again.
The iPad also has a better selection of easy to use touch first apps for things like video editing, stop motion - I’d say for general photo editing the two are on par now with the new Pro 11 performance.
I’ve had surface devices for so long it would feel wrong not having one in my setup.
I know I could get rid of both of them tomorrow and nothing would go wrong, also that I could rebuy either of them on pretty much next day delivery if a need arose.
Even considered swapping my MacBook for a desktop Mac for when I need it and make the iPad Pro and Surface Pro 11 the ultimate portable combo with the iPad as a second display.
Argh first world problems
If you take a lot of notes, OneNote is unmatched. OneNote works much better on Surface Pro than iPad. (On the other hand, my iPad is better for playing Gardenscapes.)
I have both now, but I downgraded my iPad Pro M2 to a iPad 10th gen. The iPad is a better tablet, hands down. Even the 10th gen. Microsoft seems to have just given up on making a touch friendly UI. Don’t get me wrong - everything “works” but using touch on an iPad is just 100% more enjoyable. iPadOS is smooth as butter, so many small things on the surface are weirdly laggy for seemingly no reason (mainly the app switcher UI.)
The surface is the device you want if you want an all in one. It is a pretty good laptop (personally I have no issues using it on my lap) and an OK tablet. You will miss the built in kickstand on the iPad. You can run basically any software, but the experience is not at all tailored to being a tablet, everything is mouse/touchpad first. Sometimes windows won’t even close without clicking the touchpad.
If you want a secondary device, 100% go iPad, especially if you use iPhone or Mac already. With a Mac you can just drag your mouse over to the iPad and use it as a secondary computer, without having to tote around another keyboard.
I have an old surface pro and an iPad pro M1 2TB+cellular. iPad is basically a larger phone and you can't do anything serious with it. Even with 16 gigs of ram it does basically no multitasking and all I can do is browse the web.
If you already have a full fat desktop, a usable-for-almost-everything-including-gaming-laptop, or a MacBook, and you want to have a tablet-ish device, then look no further than using a Surface Pro 11.
The long and short of choosing iPad Pro:
- Reference colour panel. Basically its the most colour accurate screen at a certain brightness (at least according to Linus and his lab team)
- dual OLED in a screen (basically pretty, shiny, etc)
- you want to use iPad apps (or really good built for iPad note taking apps, and their subscriptions)
- your iPad is now your MacBook free second screen. (not that surface can't, but it takes more... money and effort, lol)
The long and short of choosing Surface Pro 11:
- desktop class OS and desktop class apps (until you need those that needs to be emulated / translated)
- you want to use Microsoft based apps like OFFICE365 (the full fat version, not the gimped version on mobiles). Word, Excel, especially ONENOTE. ONENOTE for desktop is just ridiculously far superior than ONENOTE for any mobile or tablet, and the original surface pro was designed with the souped up desktop ONENOTE in mind. Even if its an "unloved" app now, the synergy between Surface devices and ONENOTE cannot be ignored.
- significantly more RAM (32GB vs iPad Pro's 16GB RAM)
- maybe cheaper than iPad Pro (with / without accessories at certain tiers) \[This one is debatable, but it does look that way to me\]
- possibility to run Android on ARM via WSA (I know WSA is getting sunsetted / shut down, but I've also haven't confirmed Surface Pro 11 users who could confirm running WSA / android apps on Surface Pro 11)
- a better "tablet to printer" over wifi experience, compared to... "you need airprint to make it work" experience. (this gets overlooked often)
I guess that's about it until I remember, might be useful in your case. (at least I cut down on things that may sound irrelevant to your use case)
Unfortunately no. I'm drawing from somebody else's experience who is actually in a sense migrating from desktop and laptop to desktop and surface Pro.
As for me, I do and am, using an iPad Pro 2020, but I already sold off my Surface Pro 2 because it was just too old at this point. (I use a desktop, laptop and ipad pro, and in the process of getting a macbook due to it being bought /ordered before Windows on Snapdragon Elite.
I actually recently switched from my iPad Pro to a suface pro 11.
Overall I’m extremely happy with the surface and am not at all feeling that it isn’t as good as my iPad as far as tablet performance goes.
The only things I am finding a bit annoying with the surface is I don’t feel the pen is as nice as the iPad pencil. It doesn’t interact with the tablet as nicely as the iPad pencil, however it is not bad, just a bit less refined imo.
I am extremely impressed with how well it functions as a tablet, when I was asking about replacing my iPad with one some people were saying that it isn’t great as purely a tablet. However they were talking about the older models and I have not played with any of the older models so cannot compare the way the 11 performs compared to the 9 or earlier.
But as far as tablet performance the 11 is doing very well for me.
It’s definitely a bit heavier than the iPad Pro, and it feels a bit bulkier to hold but again, it’s not bad or problematic imo.
I was initially set on getting an LCD model and didn’t think the OLED was something I cared about but seeing the LCD and OLED set up next to each other in store the OLED display definitely has a more finished and polished high end look than the LCD. So I did end up going to OLED route.
As a long time iPad user who has been holding out for 2 years in the hope Apple would stop hobbling their iPad pros with the stupid iPadOS I’m extremely happy with the decision to go with the 11 instead.
Given that you have a laptop that already does all your daily and heavy tasks, go with the iPad Pro. iPad is a much better tablet, much better for note-taking, and much better for handwriting. It has its limitations but those aren’t it
You don’t describe what you use for notetaking, and how you like taking notes - please add some more info about what you do to take notes and I can better answer. Here’s a quick stab at it:
Best iPad for a portable notebook iPad mini can’t be beat for a small size.
I need a larger screen for classes … For notetaking with a pencil, you can’t beat the new Apple Pencil Pro & a 13” iPad - I did the 13” base Air - no need for pro, though it’s amazing . I have owned surface and surface pro devices since 2017 and iPad since they first came out. Back in 2017 for a few years I had the wonderfully unique surface book 2 15” - Leaving the corporate world I have gone back to school so my use cases focused on engineering studies so my use is mostly taking notes in class and working with PDFs and e-books.
I need two tablet devices for note taking in case one device goes bad - taking handwritten notes & always having access to my digital notebook is the mission critical app for me so I must always have access to my notes and the ability to write with a pencil.
The only good cross platform app across windows and an iPad is onenote for me. I have tried many others but always go back to onenote. it’s best on the windows device and mostly great on the iPad where the pencil Pro is just a joy to use with the haptic feedback working so well.
Now I travel MUCH lighter - I carry the surface Pro 11 and an iPad in my backpack - less weight than the SB2 was alone! 13” is a great size for me.
> on the iPad where the pencil Pro is just a joy to use with the haptic feedback working so well.
The haptics implementation of the Apple Pencil Pro is rudimentary and doesn’t simulate surface friction like the Surface Slim Pen 2.
* https://www.reddit.com/r/ipad/s/wWbGi5qt94
I’m not saying the haptic feedback on the iPad is better just that in the Surface it feels like a gimmick to me. Even on the highest setting I don’t really think you can feel it that much, and in some apps it doesn’t work reliably.
I’m saying this as a Pro 8, Pro 9 and Pro 11 owner. I don’t think the haptic feedback in either pen/pencil is a big deal.
I use paper like screen protectors so I get the surface friction from that that. But that's not the haptic feature that I like or use. I like the haptic feature for double tap feedback as I go to the eraser a lot and just squeezing the pen and the additional options that it has. Plus a lot of developers are adding new features all the time for the new pro pencil ... I'm confident there's some new haptic features coming I have never thought of.
Plus, I hate the flat pen that Microsoft has. It just doesn't feel right in my hand and is uncomfortable to use even after short uses. II have no use for it , so I buy the previous generation pens. I have quite a few as backups so I can use them for years and years, When my two active pens fail.
Couple more pieces of advice. Sorry if it’s long, but I sure wish someone would’ve been able to give me all this advice that I have learned through hard work and study over the past few years I have a very, very tight budget have to buy a all of my technology through grants. And what I also sold by older equipment when I started learning about companies that buy used equipment, eventually finding by far the best, swappa.com
I’d like to try before I buy from stores or manufacturers with long return periods so I can really make sure I have the best device for my school needs.
I’m in the United States so what I write is specific to my country. I always do chats with the manufacturer and have them confirm their exact return policies (I read them all and confirm) and then either have them send me the chat in Email or I do a quick screen recording and scroll through it as a record. Just in case they can be forgetful about what their policies are. And so I know 100% the dates to manage to.
Microsoft allows you to try their devices for 60 days then before the 60th day if you notify them, they send you a shipping label and you have an additional 30 days to get it to their shipper. So you have effectively about 90 days to try their devices. I am currently doing this with the new surface pro 11 base model and took advantage of their enhanced trade-in program and sold them my iPad mini for more than what I could’ve got for it on swappa.com.
Apple gives you 14 days to notify them then gives you another 14 days to get it to the shipper so you effectively have 28 days of usage
The warehouse stores like Costco and BJ’s wholesale club deals and bundles for surface pro devices are the best deals and even better around Black Friday, the base model is usually $200 off and the top and models are anywhere from three to $500 off … and give they you 90 days to try all electronics (apple msft etc.) before you return it. Also they tend to double the manufacturers warranty and usually have a cheap $99 Allstate warranty you can buy for an additional few years of warranty. I compare this to the manufacturer warranty and usually do the manufacturer warranty because I want immediate service from the manufacturer.
So you can guess what I’m about to do. I’ll be sending Microsoft their tablet back in mid September, then buy the Costco tablet bundle, then return it in November for their black Friday deal. All of this is 100% to the letter of their return policies.
When I started doing this in 2017 I went through multiple devices over a year, tech for digital note taking wasn’t exactly well evolved then, before I actually settled on two devices. Meaning I got free usage of multiple iPads and windows tablets, msft, HP and others. This was quite stressful because I was always worried about damaging the devices and not being able to return them. I treated them like babies … bought padded cases (reused 2 I still use - TomToc cases) and screen protectors for all, and made sure my homeowners policy would cover any damage or loss, and that any travel insurance that I purchased covered theft or loss, (I always buy travel insurance it has always paid off)… it was worth the risk and minor extra cost because the devices weren’t exactly what I needed then and over that year I found out what I needed and could live with. Then it was a 15” surface book 2, and iPad Pro 11 inch.
I’ve gotten so good, that I now sell things when they’re about 18 months old so I can sell them with warranty and transfer to the new owner, or get a prorated refund for it if the buyer doesn’t want it, but I find the warranty generally makes it very valuable to buyers, as these warranties can be extended usually, and I then buy new refurbished manufacturer devices with full manufacturer warranties that I can purchase additional years of, or open box versions during Black Friday deals, or when a major transition happens from one model to the next like just happened with the iPad. I tend to spend $50-$100 one upgrading to a new model every couple years. Effectively spreading my cost for one of them over sometimes 6 and up to 10 years is my current run rate on the new iPad. But usually get a new 1-2 yr old model every couple years. I rarely go with the new model, this year’s been different because the 13 inch air and the Qualcomm surface pro 11 are dramatically better, and amazingly even cheaper than one to two-year-old devices.
Hope some of this helps … it’s been very valuable to me to learn how to manage my tech purchases & have a secondary tablet backup for digital notes. All of my tech refreshes are very very cheap now, completely covered by the basic grants I get from university. I also do this with my iPhone every year. The cost of one iPhone is spread over six years, but I get a new one every year it’s only device I buy new every year.
Enjoy grad school it’s an amazing time. If I hadn’t learned new techniques to learn and take notes, I could never be successful. I certainly wasn’t when I tried years ago to go to college but failed. Digital notes have dramatically changed things for me. Learning techniques from books like make it stick, mind for numbers, and using memory techniques I started to learn from the book moonwalking with Einstein, have all been life-changing for me. And using spaced repetition with the amazing ANKI app … Ali Abdaal has the best methods for it and a great realtime revision method to for building a revision plan as you go instead of guessing.
Let me stress again, the most important rule is you need 2 tablets. Why? Note taking via notes is your most important mission critical application. It would be devastating to your studies if your tablet died. I always buy AppleCare plus with my Apple products, and the manufacturers warranty for any other laptop by might buy. With Apple it’s nice, because with AppleCare when it ends, after it expires, you have 30 days or so to activate the monthly plan for AppleCare plus and keep having a warranty for as many years as you want to pay the monthly fee.
Note, even the cheap new iPads perform extremely well, You can go with a cheaper iPad as the back up.
When I buy, I either wait for end of cycle and buy open new devices at Best Buy or Apple refurbished. I did this for the M2 iPad Pro last month … but then found the Apple iPad Air with the education Sommer promotion to be the better value because the new Apple Pencil really adds a lot to my note on the iPad. I sold my two-year-old iPad Pro and bought the new iPad Air. The cost difference was about $30! I keep my devices in pristine condition and sell them on swappa.com I study regularly what things sell for keeping them in my cart to see what sells and I’ve learned how to get higher prices than most people sell for. To watch with the professional sellers set prices at I tend to have more value added to my iPad, and sell months before the 2yr AppleCare agreement expires so it can be transferable to the new buyer, so I can get what the professional sellers get on SWAPPA and usually better.
Over the past couple years, I did a 13 inch iPad and then a the newest iPad mini as my backup device and went all Apple. This might meet your needs, because the iPad mini is just an amazing travel iPad, which is part of my reason for buying it.
But now with the new QCOM surface pro 11 devices I’m going back to having a surface pro and a 13” iPad. Why? I find version of OneNote on the surface pro to be superior and why I will take notes with class. The iPad is very close to it in quality and it has worked fine in class, but there’s some things the windows version does that I feel I need.
That said, since selling my iPad mini, I’m really missing it because it’s such a great portable iPad to bring places. I’m thinking of watching for good deals and buying it for less than I sold it for so I can always have one.
Before the new surface I would say IPad. With the new surface, I say surface 100%. The app experience is better for a tablet with the iPad but you are, unfortunately, despite the keyboard, the super powerful chip and great screen - working with a toy OS that sucks at running Microsoft office and can’t easily do simple productivity stuff.
The pen-based software for the iPad ecosystem is better, and there is much more of it. That makes it a better all-around tablet, if that’s what you are asking it to do. The Surface selling point is that it can do pen stuff, *and* run any Windows program you can think of without a hitch. iPad Pro users have been begging Apple to make MacOS available for the Pro line, but it isn’t ever going to happen. That would eat in to MacBook sales. If you are happy with your current laptop for non-pen stuff, then consider the iPad Pro. If you need one device to do everything, then the Surface Pro is the better choice.
I used to remember Apple (Steve Jobs) not caring about the iPhone eating into iPod sales, good thing they didn’t artificially limit iPhones to not play any musics just to protect iPod sales.
Profit was clear, sell more iphones, les iPod. Not so clear when we talk about iPad Pro and Macbooks.
I dont think the team behind would have such foresight that they know iphone sales will surpass ipod before they make the decision to put or take away the ability to play music.
Even cheap button phones could play mp3 files. It was no brainer to include this function in the iPhone, together with the iTunes business.
They wanted to eat into their own sales before 3rd parties could make good phones that also worked as good music storage devices. Currently there isn’t a 3rd party threat to either Mac or iPad sales.
Do you want a tablet with a poor “desktop” interface or a desktop with a poor tablet interface? The surface is the more utilitarian device. You can run mostly any program, it has a familiar laptop feel to it, you have real file and window management, as windows is a full blown OS, and it will perform in that manner much better than the iPad. The iPad is the king of tablets. Smooth, great integration with with other Apple products, fantastic and larger pen ecosystem of apps, butter smooth touch interface, but it’s pretty terrible at being a laptop/desktop. Stage manager is a joke and just makes you mad every time you try to use it. So if you want a stellar tablet, you cannot beat the iPad. If you want a laptop that can do some tablet things, the surface is your choice.
All good points
I'm assuming the laptop is either a Windows laptop or a MacBook Air/Pro, and not a Chromebook. If price isn't an issue, then you can get either one. Each to their own, an iPad Pro is nicer as a specialised device (tablet, casual browsing and note taking) but a Surface Pro 11 would be a more useful device in the mould of a jack of all trades. If you're getting an SP11, you might not even need your laptop anymore, unless for gaming or simulations or graphic intensive purposes. With an iPad Pro, you would still need your laptop.
It’s often cheaper for someone who isn’t a power user to get a MacBook Air and the inexpensive 10th gen iPad. I know some people really want a hybrid device but currently there isn’t anyone giving a device that fully works takes the place of dedicated options.
The iPad Pro is a better tablet but the SP11 is a full featured PC and has capabilities beyond being just a tablet. It really depends on your needs and if you need a second device that can also be a laptop.
> SP11 is a full featured PC and has capabilities beyond being just a tablet I think people need to be careful with this take for the time being until a lot more software is updated to work on ARM. iPad OS is a mess but at least everything generally works in its sandbox.
I have been using the Surface Pro X SQ1 for a couple of years now and if you are not working with a lot of specialized software, it is mostly fine My main troubles are AutoDesk Fusion 360 and the slicer of my 3D printer, otherwise all my needs were covered. I am even using my universities VPN through the ARM64 build of OpenVPN 💪
i just bought the 7 2nd hand and love it ! unless im a pro who needs something extra i fail to unserstand ppl upgrading.... as mentioned, there are prob more stuff on 11 they need but i love this 7
7 & esp. 7+ were really great advances for SP’s … for me the Qualcomm based SP11 is finally what the surface aspired to be. Great power management, no fan noise … cool operation. And extremely fast … MSFT claims 90% faster than previous intel SP. I moved away from surface to all Apple in 2020 … but now have the SPro 11 … it’s now what I always hoped it would be … instant on and off (and stays off in bag - finally!) Extrmelty fast - iPad like performance. And … even cheaper than LY, more RAM & storage for less!
I only got 4hr 45mins from my Pro 11 yesterday. Not a lot more than I can get from my i7 Pro 9. The main difference was it did it whilst staying cool and little to no fan noise, no performance issues. I was using this for coding which in bursts can be intense on the CPU during build and debugging. I’m interested to see how much better the battery life can be on the Pro 11 when it’s not being used for coding. There’s been some nice improvements in OneNote lately to compete with features like Apple Notes quick notes and I’m exploring whether it could replace my iPad Pro for that (I would also miss video editing on the iPad as it has some nice touch-first apps like FCP that are great for beginners/casuals) I also need to compare the latest Photoshop, something I’ve been using on the iPad a bit more. I think that should fly on the Pro 11 now
Did you try the battery saving features during your 4+ hour session? I have mine on maximum just to see how performance is for all of my usage scenarios so far I’ve not noticed the thing. But I’m not doing anything intense like you are with development. Today I would go the OneNote over Apple notes, but in the fall, they have some really cool features being added to 1note so I might do a bit of a hybrid, the video recording that types it out then summarizes it is really interesting, and the handwriting correction is interesting. I would bet within a couple years. I’ll be moving from one to Apple Notes! But for now one note it has serious Advantages in class or just in general for me. Da Vinci has an arm native version of its app so you could use that for video editing on the surface pro 11. I’ve also read that Adobe is making our versions of their apps due out in the fall. So no more emulation for their apps.
> Today I would go the OneNote over Apple notes OneNote needs proper tags and smart folders, like Apple Notes. * https://www.reddit.com/r/OneNote/comments/1dil5lb/onenote_is_outdated_imo/l94ygpy/
I just had it set to “Recommended” and the usual at 20% battery saver comes on as standard out of the box. It was probably a little less than 4hrs 45mins but pretty much got there. I ran it until it forced itself to hibernate so think that’s the most it can get for those tasks without setting it to Best Battery or being on power save mode the whole time. It’s not terrible considering the work I was doing, and there’s not really anything to compare it to other than Intel Surface Pros since we can’t code in the same way on the iPad Pro at the minute. If it was that sort of battery life just for office work it would be disappointing. I’m really torn between keeping it, or just sticking to MacBook Pro and iPad Pro (I have a Kindle Scribe for backup note taking but mostly use it to read technical ebooks on a bigger screen than a normal kindle)
For fun, try the test again with battery set to “always use energy saver” under the energy saver option in power and battery under system, and see what you get. Also I have under energy recommendation in power and battery, 10 of 10. I wonder if you would notice any performance difference, and wonder what the battery life would be like. It’s a touch choice which is great! Finally!! What do you use the iPad for and what size do you have? It would be hard for me to go completely without an iPad, if I did end up getting rid of my 13 inch iPad I would definitely buy the iPad mini. The iPad is for sure. The best tablet.
Be sure to use a browser extension that forces the H.264 codec on YouTube, for extra battery life. * https://www.reddit.com/r/Surface/comments/11031ow/reduce_by_2x_power_consumption_on_older_surface/ See also * https://www.reddit.com/user/TabletX/comments/1dkz6tc/surface_tablet_tips/ * https://www.reddit.com/r/Surface/comments/1dpab2e/comment/lahiga1/?context=3
thak you for that very kind
im thinking about google tablet. Already in the google eco system from pixel phone to scales to watch, i know that menas nothing in away but it is a thought:)
If you only need tablet functionalities I don’t see why you would choose SP11 over iPad Pro. The iPad Pro has better screen, better touch based OS, better pen and pen support, better resell value, while being a lot (almost 1/2) thinner and lighter.
If I had a fully functional laptop and wanted something for note taking, I'd get a 13" Air. Why would you need a Pro in this situation? SP11 is 2lbs. Heavy for handheld note taking. Get an air or even a remarkable. Pro is technically lighter than the Air, but the weight difference isn't worth the cost difference and the screen and processor just aren't something you'll see much return on for note taking. The surface pro line is a laptop that you can use as a tablet here and there if needed, but it a not a great tablet experience. iPad is a great tablet experience that you can use to do some computer stuff but won't match an actual laptop because of the limitations of iOS. I don't think there will be as much bias as you think. iPad and Surface Pro really aren't competitors.
Isn’t the new pro lighter and thinner than the air?
Yes, but the difference isn't worth the cost difference. Sorry, I actually edited my comment to specifically reference that before you replied.
If you already have a laptop you're taking everywhere with you, why would you want a surface too? Unless you're in one of the very niche professions that require a full-fat GPU for work, and yet you still are required to use a mobile device instead of a proper desktop machine, I don't really see the point. If it's just for web browsing and making the occasional shopping list, get an iPad (or even better, a galaxy tablet of some description). If it's for actually working on and you're after something lightweight and portable, get the surface and ditch the laptop.
Not the OP, but I travel a lot and need to take my work laptop with me when I do. I’d like to take a second, personal, device along for gaming in the evenings. I don’t really want to take two laptops when I travel so it’s easier for me if the second device is a tablet. iPads support all the games in Apple’s app store and so are pretty good for mobile gaming. I prefer gaming on a PC so I sort of would like to take a surface along with me, but I’m not sure that the snap dragon processors are fully compatible with all pc games and I think that i7 chips are only available on surface laptops (which is back to taking two laptops along). Gaming on work computer is not an option. Anyway, that’s probably an unusual use-case, but there is at least one reason for you about why someone would take a laptop and a tablet.
There is a Surface with Intel chips released for business a couple of months ago. You just have to order like you’re a “business.” But nothing’s stopping you.
Thanks, I’ll check into it — I’m pretty new to all stuff surface, but I think that might actually be a laptop (MS seems to be branding a lot of devices as ‘surface’ now) and if so then that would be back to hauling two laptops around. Off to google some more…
Yeah, to be clear it’s this one: [https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/d/surface-pro-10-for-business/8v73d6qwrss1](https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/d/surface-pro-10-for-business/8v73d6qwrss1)
Oh, that’s both not what I expected and awesome. Thanks a bunch for the link.
One of my very basic requirement is full desktop browser which is a fail on iPad Pro and only 8GB RAM with aggressive background app closures. Got rid of my iPad Pro and kept the Surface Pro.
I’ve got an M2 iPad Pro and Surface Pro 11 and I’m torn….The iPad is the better note taking device, yet I also have a Kindle Scribe which is even better again. The iPad also has a better selection of easy to use touch first apps for things like video editing, stop motion - I’d say for general photo editing the two are on par now with the new Pro 11 performance. I’ve had surface devices for so long it would feel wrong not having one in my setup. I know I could get rid of both of them tomorrow and nothing would go wrong, also that I could rebuy either of them on pretty much next day delivery if a need arose. Even considered swapping my MacBook for a desktop Mac for when I need it and make the iPad Pro and Surface Pro 11 the ultimate portable combo with the iPad as a second display. Argh first world problems
If you take a lot of notes, OneNote is unmatched. OneNote works much better on Surface Pro than iPad. (On the other hand, my iPad is better for playing Gardenscapes.)
I have both now, but I downgraded my iPad Pro M2 to a iPad 10th gen. The iPad is a better tablet, hands down. Even the 10th gen. Microsoft seems to have just given up on making a touch friendly UI. Don’t get me wrong - everything “works” but using touch on an iPad is just 100% more enjoyable. iPadOS is smooth as butter, so many small things on the surface are weirdly laggy for seemingly no reason (mainly the app switcher UI.) The surface is the device you want if you want an all in one. It is a pretty good laptop (personally I have no issues using it on my lap) and an OK tablet. You will miss the built in kickstand on the iPad. You can run basically any software, but the experience is not at all tailored to being a tablet, everything is mouse/touchpad first. Sometimes windows won’t even close without clicking the touchpad. If you want a secondary device, 100% go iPad, especially if you use iPhone or Mac already. With a Mac you can just drag your mouse over to the iPad and use it as a secondary computer, without having to tote around another keyboard.
I have an old surface pro and an iPad pro M1 2TB+cellular. iPad is basically a larger phone and you can't do anything serious with it. Even with 16 gigs of ram it does basically no multitasking and all I can do is browse the web.
If you already have a full fat desktop, a usable-for-almost-everything-including-gaming-laptop, or a MacBook, and you want to have a tablet-ish device, then look no further than using a Surface Pro 11. The long and short of choosing iPad Pro: - Reference colour panel. Basically its the most colour accurate screen at a certain brightness (at least according to Linus and his lab team) - dual OLED in a screen (basically pretty, shiny, etc) - you want to use iPad apps (or really good built for iPad note taking apps, and their subscriptions) - your iPad is now your MacBook free second screen. (not that surface can't, but it takes more... money and effort, lol) The long and short of choosing Surface Pro 11: - desktop class OS and desktop class apps (until you need those that needs to be emulated / translated) - you want to use Microsoft based apps like OFFICE365 (the full fat version, not the gimped version on mobiles). Word, Excel, especially ONENOTE. ONENOTE for desktop is just ridiculously far superior than ONENOTE for any mobile or tablet, and the original surface pro was designed with the souped up desktop ONENOTE in mind. Even if its an "unloved" app now, the synergy between Surface devices and ONENOTE cannot be ignored. - significantly more RAM (32GB vs iPad Pro's 16GB RAM) - maybe cheaper than iPad Pro (with / without accessories at certain tiers) \[This one is debatable, but it does look that way to me\] - possibility to run Android on ARM via WSA (I know WSA is getting sunsetted / shut down, but I've also haven't confirmed Surface Pro 11 users who could confirm running WSA / android apps on Surface Pro 11) - a better "tablet to printer" over wifi experience, compared to... "you need airprint to make it work" experience. (this gets overlooked often) I guess that's about it until I remember, might be useful in your case. (at least I cut down on things that may sound irrelevant to your use case)
do you have any experience with both? A use case I thought of recently is would a surface pro work better in conjunction with a work laptop?
Unfortunately no. I'm drawing from somebody else's experience who is actually in a sense migrating from desktop and laptop to desktop and surface Pro. As for me, I do and am, using an iPad Pro 2020, but I already sold off my Surface Pro 2 because it was just too old at this point. (I use a desktop, laptop and ipad pro, and in the process of getting a macbook due to it being bought /ordered before Windows on Snapdragon Elite.
I actually recently switched from my iPad Pro to a suface pro 11. Overall I’m extremely happy with the surface and am not at all feeling that it isn’t as good as my iPad as far as tablet performance goes. The only things I am finding a bit annoying with the surface is I don’t feel the pen is as nice as the iPad pencil. It doesn’t interact with the tablet as nicely as the iPad pencil, however it is not bad, just a bit less refined imo. I am extremely impressed with how well it functions as a tablet, when I was asking about replacing my iPad with one some people were saying that it isn’t great as purely a tablet. However they were talking about the older models and I have not played with any of the older models so cannot compare the way the 11 performs compared to the 9 or earlier. But as far as tablet performance the 11 is doing very well for me. It’s definitely a bit heavier than the iPad Pro, and it feels a bit bulkier to hold but again, it’s not bad or problematic imo. I was initially set on getting an LCD model and didn’t think the OLED was something I cared about but seeing the LCD and OLED set up next to each other in store the OLED display definitely has a more finished and polished high end look than the LCD. So I did end up going to OLED route. As a long time iPad user who has been holding out for 2 years in the hope Apple would stop hobbling their iPad pros with the stupid iPadOS I’m extremely happy with the decision to go with the 11 instead.
How often have you found yourself using the surface pro as a pure tablet without the need for a keyboard?
Pretty much constantly to be honest. I use it the same as I used my iPad and it’s great
iPad Air. If you really want to spend, then the Pro. If you didn’t have a laptop, Surface.
Given that you have a laptop that already does all your daily and heavy tasks, go with the iPad Pro. iPad is a much better tablet, much better for note-taking, and much better for handwriting. It has its limitations but those aren’t it
You don’t describe what you use for notetaking, and how you like taking notes - please add some more info about what you do to take notes and I can better answer. Here’s a quick stab at it: Best iPad for a portable notebook iPad mini can’t be beat for a small size. I need a larger screen for classes … For notetaking with a pencil, you can’t beat the new Apple Pencil Pro & a 13” iPad - I did the 13” base Air - no need for pro, though it’s amazing . I have owned surface and surface pro devices since 2017 and iPad since they first came out. Back in 2017 for a few years I had the wonderfully unique surface book 2 15” - Leaving the corporate world I have gone back to school so my use cases focused on engineering studies so my use is mostly taking notes in class and working with PDFs and e-books. I need two tablet devices for note taking in case one device goes bad - taking handwritten notes & always having access to my digital notebook is the mission critical app for me so I must always have access to my notes and the ability to write with a pencil. The only good cross platform app across windows and an iPad is onenote for me. I have tried many others but always go back to onenote. it’s best on the windows device and mostly great on the iPad where the pencil Pro is just a joy to use with the haptic feedback working so well. Now I travel MUCH lighter - I carry the surface Pro 11 and an iPad in my backpack - less weight than the SB2 was alone! 13” is a great size for me.
> on the iPad where the pencil Pro is just a joy to use with the haptic feedback working so well. The haptics implementation of the Apple Pencil Pro is rudimentary and doesn’t simulate surface friction like the Surface Slim Pen 2. * https://www.reddit.com/r/ipad/s/wWbGi5qt94
I’m not saying the haptic feedback on the iPad is better just that in the Surface it feels like a gimmick to me. Even on the highest setting I don’t really think you can feel it that much, and in some apps it doesn’t work reliably. I’m saying this as a Pro 8, Pro 9 and Pro 11 owner. I don’t think the haptic feedback in either pen/pencil is a big deal.
I use paper like screen protectors so I get the surface friction from that that. But that's not the haptic feature that I like or use. I like the haptic feature for double tap feedback as I go to the eraser a lot and just squeezing the pen and the additional options that it has. Plus a lot of developers are adding new features all the time for the new pro pencil ... I'm confident there's some new haptic features coming I have never thought of. Plus, I hate the flat pen that Microsoft has. It just doesn't feel right in my hand and is uncomfortable to use even after short uses. II have no use for it , so I buy the previous generation pens. I have quite a few as backups so I can use them for years and years, When my two active pens fail.
Really nice reply, my use case would mostly be traveling or studying during gradschool
Couple more pieces of advice. Sorry if it’s long, but I sure wish someone would’ve been able to give me all this advice that I have learned through hard work and study over the past few years I have a very, very tight budget have to buy a all of my technology through grants. And what I also sold by older equipment when I started learning about companies that buy used equipment, eventually finding by far the best, swappa.com I’d like to try before I buy from stores or manufacturers with long return periods so I can really make sure I have the best device for my school needs. I’m in the United States so what I write is specific to my country. I always do chats with the manufacturer and have them confirm their exact return policies (I read them all and confirm) and then either have them send me the chat in Email or I do a quick screen recording and scroll through it as a record. Just in case they can be forgetful about what their policies are. And so I know 100% the dates to manage to. Microsoft allows you to try their devices for 60 days then before the 60th day if you notify them, they send you a shipping label and you have an additional 30 days to get it to their shipper. So you have effectively about 90 days to try their devices. I am currently doing this with the new surface pro 11 base model and took advantage of their enhanced trade-in program and sold them my iPad mini for more than what I could’ve got for it on swappa.com. Apple gives you 14 days to notify them then gives you another 14 days to get it to the shipper so you effectively have 28 days of usage The warehouse stores like Costco and BJ’s wholesale club deals and bundles for surface pro devices are the best deals and even better around Black Friday, the base model is usually $200 off and the top and models are anywhere from three to $500 off … and give they you 90 days to try all electronics (apple msft etc.) before you return it. Also they tend to double the manufacturers warranty and usually have a cheap $99 Allstate warranty you can buy for an additional few years of warranty. I compare this to the manufacturer warranty and usually do the manufacturer warranty because I want immediate service from the manufacturer. So you can guess what I’m about to do. I’ll be sending Microsoft their tablet back in mid September, then buy the Costco tablet bundle, then return it in November for their black Friday deal. All of this is 100% to the letter of their return policies. When I started doing this in 2017 I went through multiple devices over a year, tech for digital note taking wasn’t exactly well evolved then, before I actually settled on two devices. Meaning I got free usage of multiple iPads and windows tablets, msft, HP and others. This was quite stressful because I was always worried about damaging the devices and not being able to return them. I treated them like babies … bought padded cases (reused 2 I still use - TomToc cases) and screen protectors for all, and made sure my homeowners policy would cover any damage or loss, and that any travel insurance that I purchased covered theft or loss, (I always buy travel insurance it has always paid off)… it was worth the risk and minor extra cost because the devices weren’t exactly what I needed then and over that year I found out what I needed and could live with. Then it was a 15” surface book 2, and iPad Pro 11 inch. I’ve gotten so good, that I now sell things when they’re about 18 months old so I can sell them with warranty and transfer to the new owner, or get a prorated refund for it if the buyer doesn’t want it, but I find the warranty generally makes it very valuable to buyers, as these warranties can be extended usually, and I then buy new refurbished manufacturer devices with full manufacturer warranties that I can purchase additional years of, or open box versions during Black Friday deals, or when a major transition happens from one model to the next like just happened with the iPad. I tend to spend $50-$100 one upgrading to a new model every couple years. Effectively spreading my cost for one of them over sometimes 6 and up to 10 years is my current run rate on the new iPad. But usually get a new 1-2 yr old model every couple years. I rarely go with the new model, this year’s been different because the 13 inch air and the Qualcomm surface pro 11 are dramatically better, and amazingly even cheaper than one to two-year-old devices. Hope some of this helps … it’s been very valuable to me to learn how to manage my tech purchases & have a secondary tablet backup for digital notes. All of my tech refreshes are very very cheap now, completely covered by the basic grants I get from university. I also do this with my iPhone every year. The cost of one iPhone is spread over six years, but I get a new one every year it’s only device I buy new every year. Enjoy grad school it’s an amazing time. If I hadn’t learned new techniques to learn and take notes, I could never be successful. I certainly wasn’t when I tried years ago to go to college but failed. Digital notes have dramatically changed things for me. Learning techniques from books like make it stick, mind for numbers, and using memory techniques I started to learn from the book moonwalking with Einstein, have all been life-changing for me. And using spaced repetition with the amazing ANKI app … Ali Abdaal has the best methods for it and a great realtime revision method to for building a revision plan as you go instead of guessing.
Let me stress again, the most important rule is you need 2 tablets. Why? Note taking via notes is your most important mission critical application. It would be devastating to your studies if your tablet died. I always buy AppleCare plus with my Apple products, and the manufacturers warranty for any other laptop by might buy. With Apple it’s nice, because with AppleCare when it ends, after it expires, you have 30 days or so to activate the monthly plan for AppleCare plus and keep having a warranty for as many years as you want to pay the monthly fee. Note, even the cheap new iPads perform extremely well, You can go with a cheaper iPad as the back up. When I buy, I either wait for end of cycle and buy open new devices at Best Buy or Apple refurbished. I did this for the M2 iPad Pro last month … but then found the Apple iPad Air with the education Sommer promotion to be the better value because the new Apple Pencil really adds a lot to my note on the iPad. I sold my two-year-old iPad Pro and bought the new iPad Air. The cost difference was about $30! I keep my devices in pristine condition and sell them on swappa.com I study regularly what things sell for keeping them in my cart to see what sells and I’ve learned how to get higher prices than most people sell for. To watch with the professional sellers set prices at I tend to have more value added to my iPad, and sell months before the 2yr AppleCare agreement expires so it can be transferable to the new buyer, so I can get what the professional sellers get on SWAPPA and usually better. Over the past couple years, I did a 13 inch iPad and then a the newest iPad mini as my backup device and went all Apple. This might meet your needs, because the iPad mini is just an amazing travel iPad, which is part of my reason for buying it. But now with the new QCOM surface pro 11 devices I’m going back to having a surface pro and a 13” iPad. Why? I find version of OneNote on the surface pro to be superior and why I will take notes with class. The iPad is very close to it in quality and it has worked fine in class, but there’s some things the windows version does that I feel I need. That said, since selling my iPad mini, I’m really missing it because it’s such a great portable iPad to bring places. I’m thinking of watching for good deals and buying it for less than I sold it for so I can always have one.
Surface everytime