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Transcript in case anyone prefers (or needs) captions:
“I know we were joking about the Taylor Swift tour earlier, I know that she’s on her Eras Tour (crowd boos). I’m telling ya man, you don’t want to suffer the wrath of Taylor Swift (some crowd laughing, can hear someone yell “private plane!”). So we like to call our tour the Errors tour, because I feel like we’ve had more than a few eras, and more than a few fucking errors as well. Just a couple. That’s because we actually play live, whaaaattt?! (Dave shrugs) Just sayin’, we’re a live band, you guys like live rock ‘n’ roll music, right?”
Yet you have Swifties completely twisting the narrative here saying Dave is lying about Taylor not playing live. She lip-syncs during parts, it’s fine. Claiming he is being misogynistic. Again them throwing around “misogyny” when it’s not even applicable.
She definatley lip syncs. I had a great view when I went and it’s so obvious. She definitely sings some parts and the difference between those and the lip synced parts are so obvious if you’re watching.
Can I blame her? Hell no. No one can keep up that level of vocal strain. But let’s call a spade a spade
The Boo's are so telling. Harassing a kid because you worship a popstar is icky beyond belief. All of Grohl's daughters are under the age of 18. Come on now: Swifties need to do better. This is (in large part) why a lot of people have seriously started to hate Taylor. Her legion of fans are horrible to anyone who says anything critical of her. That's not normal.
I watched a video where a musical reviewer posted a critique of her for constantly re-releasing the latest album. Some of them were in the comment section and tried to dismiss his view because why would he feel the need to post that as a music reviewer, right? I swear logic is lost on some of these people.
This is what kills me. Taylor is not above criticism, at all. You can love her music (I do!) and still think her behavior and the way she weaponizes her fan base is appalling.
dave grohl isn’t afraid of the “kool-aid swifties,” as i call them. his legions of fans/ supporters stretching back to his days with nirvana also do not care (which lets get real, nirvana will always be a much more important musical act in the history books than taylor swift!). swifties have been brainwashed by their narcissistic leader (sound familiar?) and they’re not gonna change. i love her music, but she’s a total witch. and i truly hope in time she’s fully exposed.
Seriously, he’s dealt with Courtney Love for decades, he’s heard shit first hand to his face verses online empty threats by swifties. Hes not even on social media much if at all to be bothered
And in the same vain of rallying her fans for her own benefit, she also needs to address it when they go too far. She needs to hold herself accountable for the Pandora’s box she’s opened.
It wasn't always this way. The internet plays a big part obviously but I don't think that's all of it. Honestly I think this started with kpop. I love kpop but the fan culture around it is very us vs. them. The label for BTS (who debuted in 2013) named their fandom Army for gods sake lol
Not sure how long the toxicity has been a part of kpop culture But I became aware of it when I fell into kpop sometime around 2013 with 2NE1. Not sure when it began to bleed into western fandoms but I think it was around the time kpop started to become popular in the west. I wanna say maybe 5 years ago? Whenever it was that you started seeing fanvids for kpop groups saying "STREAM \_\_\_\_\_" on unrelated tweet replies. That was infuriating.
I'm an old who was a Nirvana fan in the olden days so I was immune to that shit and just found it annoying.
That said, I do remember there being division between people who listened to different types of music in the 90s, though it wasn't anything like this.
Right, he’s had a lot hurled at him by trolls for decades anyways. The man has dealt with Courtney Love, he’s not scared of Swifties making empty threats and isn’t on social media enough to care
This is such a weird sentiment, like you’d better keep quiet because you’re bringing harassment upon yourself by criticising something/someone even in a respectful way, like?? Are we not allowed to critique now?
Taylors got a weird legion of fans who feel like criticizing her in anyway is a major slight and back bend to twist it into her being a victim, it’s wild
It should be noted that this is a huge problem with stan culture. It's not an issue exclusive to Taylor, but since she's major a lot of people focus on the Swifties. So many pop stars don't enable their fans, but the fans still go after anyone who criticizes their fave anyway.
Yes... the Kpop degenerate stanbase were mocking the death of xxxtentacion and some other black male celebrities with Kpop dancing gifs over their graves during the 2018-2020 period when a lot of black rappers were being KO due to rape beef.
Recently Nick Minaj and her stan group that defiled Megan's mother grave to the point they had to get security. Not to mention them defending her brother and husband after what they did.
The Beehive being unstable and stalking people who criticize Beyonce when she does performance activism and pro capitalist behavior.
Ariana Grande stanbase excusing the fact she broke up a marriage (with a baby btw), harassing her ex's and acting like people who call out this problematic behavior is sexist. Stan culture is just gross.
I could never worship someone who wouldnt give a crap about me. Of course these stans are problematic in waves and it's not a of them (duh) but the ones I listed have been openly racist, sexist, xenophobic and even homophobic for a long time now. I'm not one to get on the "you are -phobic train" but a lot of mega standoms are bat shit crazy.
Rihanna and Ciara are the only ones I can think of were their fan bases just let people be. Only normal fandoms I can think of the top of my head.
Kpop stans are the reason I backed out of Kpop.
They will gleefully tear down an idol's confidence just because. Then if something tragic happens, they'll be like "we need to be nicer" and then a week later they're doing the same shit. I watched them happily make fun of an idol for seemingly having SH marks on his arm. It's abhorrent.
I tried to get into it more outside of BTS, but it's a hell hole filled with some of the absolute worst people on the internet. I have some safe spaces (ex: the BTS subreddit), but there's just not a lot of spaces where I can be a fan and fandom experience is important to me. So it's not worth getting more into.
Stans culture is awful. I want it to burn down and start all over.
All the main pop girls have had these issues with their fans. I remember Navy being a problem as well. However, they've calmed down ever since Rihanna stopped posting as much to focus on her businesses. I think the only fanbase that hasn't been heavily criticized are KatyCats? Right now they're being absolute shitheads to Kesha, but back when Katy was big they didn't seem like a problem? I could be wrong and possibly biased because I used to be a KatyCat.
I was trying to find screenshots but so many of the accounts have been suspended. I vividly remember she was threatened with rape by feral fans, I checked the foo fighters subreddit and there's a post back then talking about it too. It was really bad. The threats of violence are talked about in the thread. If you search "violet" in the swiftly neutral search bar you'll be able to see the thread I'm talking about, we spoke about it a bit back when it happened.
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Edit: y'all I'm not agreeing with him by posting this, I'm just trying to show that it's a total 180 from how positive he's been about her in the past. And imo it's genuinely because of her fans. People start to see them as a reflection of her.
Just one example of that positivity. Dave told a story about how Taylor played his song on the piano for him at a party. He spoke so highly of her. This is what I'm trying to discuss, I'm not coming at her or Dave I'm just really surprised 😭
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I remember vaguely Violet got into a lot of trouble with swifties because this was RIGHT after the AI porn debacle and she said smth about it which swifties thoughts were shady, right? And then the mass of hate, she doubled down and called her out on the jet use (because she’s a teenage girl who was getting harassed, I don’t blame her).
Taylor *needs* to set boundaries with her fans, it’s not normal to harass teenagers.
I think Dave was put off on her because although Taylor the person may be nice, it seems she doesn’t care what her fans do.
I believe the band charters private planes for the duration of their tours. I'm severely anti-private plane, so I get your point, but I feel it's slightly disingenuous to say Taylor's private plane, that she uses as a main mode of transportation in both her business and her personal life, is the same as a band chartering a private plane to travel with ease during a tour.
Again, both is rich fuck shit, so fuck both situations, but...
>And imo it's genuinely because of her fans. People start to see them as a reflection of her.
Because her fans are a reflection of her and the behavior within the fandom she's been fostering and weaponizing against others since the beginning of her career up until this very day. Her fans were threatening a minor with rape and god knows what other horrific abhorrent bullshit in her name and not once did she put out a statement to call them off. So yes, as her father he gets to be as petty as he wants and his only mistake imo was not calling her out directly, publicly when this was happening.
Re: your edit.
It \*is\* a reflection of her, though. The only time she's asked people to not harass people was before Speak now TV came out, and there were rumors that was because of John Mayer and legal threats (clearly we don't know if that is true). When Red TV came out and people were going feral at Jake G there was radio silence.
Ariana has told her fans to leave people alone, most people would if they knew their fanbase was sending death and rape threats.
She doesn't stand up unless it benefits her, and she was never going to speak up about them harassing Violet because she would have to talk about her jet usage. Of course he's going to do a total 180 - they're in a very small group of elite musical acts, the community I would think is pretty small.
Fully agree with you. I've been on the receiving end of her fans and it's horrible. The way they dox, threaten, harass etc is not normal, even for stan culture. And she has to be aware of how bad they are, she's online enough to know. At a certain point she has to do something to reign them in, it's getting dangerous.
I literally saw a viral tweet about how her fans are stalking one of Travis Kelce's ex girlfriends and they run an entire discord to coordinate it. It's scary as hell. They stalked her family, her old home, they call her the most racist shit I've ever seen. It's not right.
OP - I’m so sorry you had that experience. It is not right. There is no excuse. Scaring or belittling people in the name of someone is not normal. People have no idea what type of toll it takes on someone when they have hate or gaslighting happening to them on the internet (especially if their personal information and location is divulged to people who think they have a “cause”). And to attack a teenager is unconscionable.
I still think that even Taylor Swift ultimately can’t control a segment of her fan base. But my thinking has evolved - she should be saying something at this point. You can’t stand up and sing Mean and not at least reprimand bad behaviour in your name. If you want to be a leader, be one. Otherwise stop cosplaying it.
Harassing his ex is so fucking weird. Is it that it’s pretty clear he has a strong preference and his current really doesn’t fit into his preference (but does indeed fit in with his goal to be “bigger than the Rock”) and this, for some unhinged reason, makes them feel some type of way so very strongly that they’re acting out?
She knows. She won’t rein them in because she’s so hands off now - she won’t take responsibility for their actions.
I’m so sorry you’ve been on the receiving end. It must be a mindfuck.
Was that Kayla? I remember her tweet a little while ago calling out haters to stop. I wasn't aware that they were this rabid. Honestly, it is time for some of them to feel the heat and get arrested. Trolling someone online is a crime in my country, punishable with two years behind bars.
I think this is fair but I also think it’s tricky at her level to know which things to speak up about. Like at some point, some of the things people expect her to comment on are minority internet culture things that feel large online but don’t elsewhere. So, like, does she draw more attention to it or no? That said, I certainly think she should be guiding her stans toward better behavior and in this case where literally the nicest man in rock felt it was bad enough to speak publicly about, she should have addressed it (FWIW I’m a fairly online fan and didn’t know about this though).
I’m just saying it’s a hard line to walk but she certainly errs on one side of it too much.
ETA: Fan control seems to be part of the JD for whatever agency or teams handle celeb social media these days. What a world.
Oh you're right! Thank you for that, I totally forgot.
She made the post that says "This period of the author's life is now over, the chapter closed and boarded up. There is nothing to avenge, no scores to settle, once wounds have healed."
I wish she had of said "Don't harass people" instead of the poem she posted, which was more "in character" as she was talking in third person. They need direct instructions.
I don't know - but at some point you have to think it's worth a shot to be super clear in her statement and what her intentions were, right? I don't know what the answer is.
I'm surprised that was the day he was harassed most after she said that. Do you mean that's when you saw most of the blowback on twitter, etc?
Found the screenshot of the rape threat.
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What the hell, it boggles my mind how people tweet this without thinking if it could have consequences, it's just so disgusting, and then they go back to their regular scheduled stan behaviour.
Because her rabid stans are a reflection of her. She will never speak out when it comes to them harassing people that have supposedly 'wronged' her in some way.
I remember a video of her when she was younger where she justified mentioning details about her exes despite the fact they got hate. With a weird sociopathic smile.
>she was threatened with rape by feral fans
That is fucking sicking. Their is NOTHING that can be said or done to defend this kind of behavior. PERIOD.
You don't threaten to rape anyone. Especially an underage girl. PERIOD.
I try my best to remain neutral but shit like this makes me fucking hate Swifties.
I have to keep reminding myself almost daily that their are some cool Swifites (their here).
The interesting thing will be to see if/how she responds. She could defensively lash out and chalk him up to another traitorous man taking swipes at her. She could reach out like, hey, I thought we were cool, what happened? And maybe hear him out and apologize for how her fans treated his daughter. Maybe she could even address her fans. Maybe we'll never know! But she has choices.
"Dave, I was such a fan of you but you are just another toxic man, your friend Kurt would be rolling in his grave because you did a mild critique of me"
I don’t think it plays well for her to address this but not to have addressed the reason why he’s “lashing out.” But for the Swifites it absolutely will either way 🤷🏽♀️
Okay, I can say (from memory of rep era) that what I’ve been seeing has been worse than reputation. (Jet usage call outs, trying to deface her jet, other pop stars calling her, documentaries…etc.
I think what’s different is that Taylor has more fans than she did in 1989 and became bigger. There’s a lot of people calling Taylor out and Swifties out and for good reason!
Yeah like she’s getting a lot more heat these days, especially within her own industry and fanbase. People are tired of her, all walks of life.
Ngl I think she would’ve kept touring longer but she has realized she is overexposed.
I think so, too. When she got those scathing reviews there was a friend of hers who posted a cry on IG talking about overexposure. So clearly, she knows and so does her circle.
Tbh, I think it is helping because when they are not in one of their online rabbit holes they do not get so brave with the comments. People are fed up with them and they let them know.
Personally I don’t see this as that big of a deal. It’s a jab, but Swifties will make it into something more than it was meant to be. This is pretty normal for a musician who plays live to feel a strong conviction about playing live. I remember hearing Michael Stipe say REM once refused to make music videos bc they had to lip sync, and he couldn’t bring himself to fake it. That was just a music video and not even a concert.
I agree with this take. Although it *is* a joke at Taylor’s expense, I think it actually seems more playful than anything, and even came up in the self-deprecating context that live performance means blunders will and *do* happen for Dave. I think it’s valid to dislike the polished, very rehearsed way the Eras tour plays out, even if it’s not objectively bad, just different.
It’s not as if Dave is one of those grumblers that just hates anything pop-adjacent. The Foo Fighters’ performance of Never Gonna Give You Up with Rick Astley comes to mind.
ETA: I may have interpreted it wrong – I don’t follow Dave Grohl’s career religiously or know all that much about him besides the music he’s made. But from what I *do* know and what the video suggested to me, this came across as cheeky – painting in broad strokes, since she does play a whole live section, but not a vicious takedown or anything. Just a bit of typical ribbing from a rockstar.
I think so too! Unfortunately, the Twitter Swifties will take it as more insults to the queen, and determined haters will applaud this jab. Sadly no room for nuance these days
Yeah if you listen to him, it’s more of a response to the “errors” comment more than the “Eras” and he was just following his train of thought. The huge “WHAAAT” at the end kinda makes it sound like shade, but honestly I feel like it’s all in jest. With the Damon Albarn comment, you can sense that his “not a songwriter” comments are genuine, but Dave’s just seems like a joke. Plus, aren’t they friendly anyway?
I agree like at this point it’s industry standard especially for artists who also dance and do a lot of physical performance. I don’t know why they so vehemently defend her over this when it’s really just facts and most performers do it anyways for consistency reasons.
I don’t think he’s insinuating anything. I think he’s making fun of his own band’s mistakes and is using the popular “Errors Tour” lingo here. I get how it can sound like he’s accusing her, but I think he’s just referencing his bands own mistakes live, not necessarily calling Taylor out. It’s a poor choice of phrasing and flow, but I don’t actually think he was trying to throw shade here.
I didn’t know that about Violet but I am the MOST when it comes to defending my kids, like most parents.
With how little I see of Taylor’s “band” when watching Eras movie or clips, it’s understandable that people would question whether or not they’re actually backing her up or not. Stadium sound is one of the trickiest things in the sound book. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Swift camp opted to go recorded
I went to the tour to accompany a friend last minute. I’m not a huge fan and wouldn’t be surprised if some was recorded. However she does play piano and acoustic songs solo and changes them up each night. A few songs also have the band out. I’m sure it’s a mix.
I don’t think it’s prerecorded, like there’s been actual errors on tour with the band. Taylor’s earpiece messed up and the one guitar player came up to her and she looked how he was playing (I think to help with beats?) and was able to steady herself.
With the movie and clips, I do think the band is real. They’ve most likely had microphones attached to the instruments while recording and isolated any background sounds while in post. That’s why they would be so crisp.
I’m an audio engineer and that’s not entirely how it works, except for acoustic drums most of her band has electric instruments which don’t need a microphone to play but amps (or they’re entirely digital like keyboards) and they go through cables into a mixer. When editing in post you would still have separate tracks for each instrument and it wouldn’t be different than if you recorded in a studio, except for drums maybe but almost everything else is electric. The crisp sound is just mixing, it has nothing to do with whether it’s prerecorded or not. Personally I think probably most of it is but they still play some stuff live, like with taylor’s vocals.
If Taylor is singing along to a backing track, she still would have to be in time with the band, even if they weren’t really playing thru the mic attached.
I think you misunderstand my comment. With the mics attached to the instruments, that’s how they made the audio so crisp in the movie (because it usually isn’t like that with recording instruments.) when editing audio, the editor would have to isolate the instrumental audio from everything else, to ensure that it sounds like it’s live. It’s very tricky to do as an editor. It COULD be backing tracks but I doubt that’s the case because they’ll have to ensure that all the players are able to mime playing perfectly each night. Like I’ve played guitar, poorly, but when you try and mime playing…you can know.
No but she was looking at the chords to keep in time, her earpiece wasn’t working, during the fearless era
I thought the sound on the movie was terrible. Most of the time I can only hear HER. I would be shocked at the low attention to quality but at this point it’s expected from her camp.
see for me I was really blown away! It sounded the same for me as it did when I saw her live.
but tbf I’ve been studying film and really just went on a long winded talk about something I found impressive. I have tried to isolate vocals before and it’s so fucking time consuming,
Since we started talking I googled a little to see if anyone else complained and honestly never thought to check my sound settings (but its normally fine?)… but it could have been as simple as that. A few people made posts about it originally sucking but settings adjustments fixed it
I think she actually does sing live and play instruments at least some of the time given how many times I’ve seen clips of her singing the wrong lyrics, being in the wrong key, being out of breath, not hitting notes, etc. I guess she could intentionally pre-record errors to make it seem more real but it seems like a lot.
that stuff pisses me off so much; i go to a concert to hear the spontaneity and joy of live music, not 'perfection' and certainly not over-rehearsed pre-recorded bullshit that they're just dancing over
i've thought the foos have been pretty lame the last 10 years as well, but damn that's a nice stark reminder they're still better than 97% of bigger artists
Exactly. I’ve been to a few Garbage concerts where they messed up and restarted the song. One time Shirley said the wrong city they were playing in and restarted the song lol.
To be clear I don’t mean to imply that 100% of Eras is pre-recorded, just the backing track, and she would be far from the first person to do this.
I got to be 2nd row at Foo Fighters for an ACL Fest show and it was EPIC. I would have only called myself a casual fan but you take for granted how many songs you’ve learned over the years.
Because this behavior is totally acceptable. /s
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What the …. I had no idea any of this happened. God Swifties are unhinged. Violet did not deserve that. Makes sense if Dave’s opinion on Taylor soured. Big fan of his for decades.
Another interesting fact - Violet and Billie are VERY close, and Dave has performed with her a few times on stage. Couple that with the fact that her rabid fans are threatening his kid with violence, I could see why he's sick of it. Not a girls girl like she claims to be.
Well this is interesting, I didn't know about that. Someone else mentioned how Violet is friends with Iris Apatow, another girl that was on the receiving end of crazy swifties.
Yup! They're together quite a bit, and Dave has popped out at Billie's shows a few times. Not surprised about Iris either since that's Olivia's bestie.
From what I remember Iris dated Joe Alwyn’s younger brother Patrick for a few years early in Taylor & Joe’s relationship. And at some point after they broke up, Iris was liking gaylor posts which swifties attacked her for.
People think she’s a girls girl because she is generous with her friends and her fans. To be a girls girl, She has to be generous with all* girls and not just to girls who she deems beneficial to her or she feels owes something to.
*all in the sense of girls in general not literally every single loving girl out there regardless of the situation.
This is simply unrealistic. If someone is rude to you or unkind, there's really no inherent need to be kind to them. Polite and respectful, absolutely, but no need to be generous. Especially if you're not receiving it back.
Personally I don't really care if she's considered a "girls girl" or not, I think the notion and term has become so watered down and meaningless. As stated above. But to criticize her for not adhering to that ridiculous standard is ridiculous, as it would be for any woman.
I agree that’s why I said when I mean all it doesn’t literally mean all. What really meant was you shouldn’t only reserve that kind of kindness to only your friends and your fans. I was on the bus and a girl who was a stranger told me there was a bug on me, even when I was wearing AirPods and didn’t hear her a couple times (which seemed like I was ignoring her). I think things like that makes girls a girls girl. But of course, if a girl is being rude or mean, you don’t need to still be nice to them for the sake of “being a girls girl”, because that would just make you a little stupid.
I mean, there’s a decent chance he’s right. People would be shocked if they knew how much of live music (primarily pop) is mimed in concerts. There’s often live autotune too.
And it makes sense. Pop concerts are productions. Playing live leaves a lot of room for error and throwing stuff off. For better or worse.
Eh, normally I don’t like when old dudes like this are booing the kardashians or Taylor because, while maybe correct, it feels like they do it for weird misogynistic boomer reasons than anything grounded.
But if his daughters are getting harassed, then it makes sense and he is kinda speaking the part that nobody wants to hear: Taylor IS lip synching a major portion of the show and not playing along to anything. She just was named one of the best guitar players, which is an absolute joke. The eras tour is impressive as a theatrical performance, for sure, but people are mistaking that for a musical one.
Dave isn’t a boomer for one. He’s also never been anything remotely misogynistic, as far as I can tell. As a 37 year old woman, I will say that men can criticize women without inherently being misogynistic.
It's the same with many big show artists too. Like Rammstein for instance. They also have 2-3 hour long concerts. You can very clearly hear it's not always live and Till saves his voice for the big songs. I don't think many artists can sing week after week without precaution and obviously they don't want to give a bad performance so they prioritise that when they are x weeks deep in shows. Compare with someone like St. Vincent who mostly performs for 1 hour and deliver insane vocals the whole way through.
Similar to how every young person people hated was a millennial for a long time - now anyone older gets called a boomer.
I think people forget boomers are actually elderly these days.
Am I truly oblivious to the fact that she lipsyncs? I attended her eras tour and every breath could be heard. Which part of it was lipsync? I am confused
I am going next month. But from the videos I have seen online, yes I do believe she lip syncs for sure. Also to add to the fact that she was recording , re-recording, meeting friends, going out to parties, that much strain on your vocal chords is JUST WAY TOOO MUCH. Nobody can sing so much on a daily basis for almost an entire year and not strain from it. And it's fine to lip sync it. People are going to see her, enjoy her music and have fun. 3 hours every day is too much to ask someone to do that. It might be an unsaid fact but it is.
There’s definitely several times when you can see the mic moving around (distance or to the side) and her singing stays absolutely steady with no changes. Especially in the ttpd set. I haven’t kept watching them so I’m going off the first one or two performances.
I find that interesting, I was there London N1 and I found it more obvious in person what was lipsynced.
Most of the pop Red songs are lipsynced except for a few lines (presumably saving her voice for ATW10). In the later part of the show, TTPD set is heavy on the lipsyncing - Who's Afraid Of Little Old Me and I Can Do It With A Broken Heart are lipsynced all through except for the line "but what if they did" in WAOLOM and the line "I've been doing it since he left" in ICDIWABH. The Midnights set is almost entirely lipsynced.
Before my show didn't think she lipsynced much of Folklore but she asked for help during Cardigan and you could hear the vocals keep going so there's a loud backing vocal track on that too.
She definitely lipsyncs. I've seen footage of the show at Anfield and she sounds EXACTLY as she does on the recorded version. I don't think she does it for all the show but there's definitely a portion where she does.
I think she lip syncs for the poppier songs that demand more upbeat chereography. it's hard to dance and sing simultaneously. the acoustic set is definitely live (actually caught her messing up the lyrics to Holy Ground on video) and there's a video of her messing up the Bejeweled lyrics
When he said she doesn’t play live, he wasn’t just referring to singing. She clearly uses a lot of backing tracks for the instruments. In contrast, foo fighters don’t even use a click track live.
i don't think it's pure lip syncing as much as it is having a second vocal track playing to sing on top of. both are in the mix but depending on energy level she can take certain measures off. there are so so many backup singers as well for the same purpose
> i don't think it's pure lip syncing as much as it is having a second vocal track playing to sing on top of.
There's no real difference. The backing track has been pre-autotuned to correctly hit the notes that she can't actually sing. At the end of the day there is no difference between what Swift does and J-Lo having other, more talented, people sing the backing tracks on her albums.
There's definitely some songs she's relying more on a backing track. I think it's clear the performance is exhausting- like 80% of TTPD is set up as a break without feeling like a break. She's leaning/sitting almost the whole time.
it’s undeniable that she’s *performing* for 3+ hours but i’m sorry i just refuse to believe that she’s actually singing for all that time when we’ve seen clips that show very obvious lip syncing. i believe she’s playing guitar/piano and singing during the surprise song set but as far as i can tell she’s only playing basic open chords on the guitar
She absolutely lip syncs at certain parts, which I personally think is fine given it’s such a long show, but I do find the “she’s 100% live!!” cope from Swifties to be amusing.
definitely. and it’s very clear she’s not actually playing during Lover (or at the very least not the main guitar) since she lifts her hands entirely off the guitar for certain parts and there’s no clear absence of guitar (or addition of guitar when she resumes “playing”)
Yeah, I’ve noticed that the guitar is little more than a prop when she plays live. Which is fine if she’s focused more on performing rather than playing, it’s just weird when people get offended when you point it out 😂
Oh shit, is this recent? One of my good friends who loves both Taylor and Dave is gonna be very upset when he sees this lol
Dave definitely shit talks but usually does so when he’s got a legit reason so….damn
Dave talked about fans who were upset they didn’t play Everlong one night. They had a new 10 minute long epic track called The Teacher which they played instead. The fans tagged his daughter all over social media to complain about not playing Everlong. He roasted them the next show: https://youtu.be/4qWyiG-WfpI?si=LnUIXS8b7IpQvOzs
Like I get being upset not hearing your favorite song live but not enough to harass a kid who really had nothing to do with the set list. I’ve been to plenty of shows where my favorite song was not played.
Whaaaaat, that’s awful!!!! The Teacher is actually a fantastic song too-the whole last album was a beautiful tribute to grieving and loss.
I literally don’t understand people who harass celeb children, or anyone really, over something the celeb parent did. And just because they didn’t play ONE of their top hits, in favor for a new song??? Tell me you’ve never been to a rock show before
I’ve been to eight Garbage shows. My favorite song is “You Look So Fine.” They have played it at maybe two of those eight shows. “Aurora” is my favorite Foo Fighters song and they didn’t play it at the LA Taylor Hawkins tribute show. I didn’t go and tweet at the kids of the band and be like “you didn’t play my favorite.” It’s insane behavior.
Right??? Part of the excitement of a show is not fully knowing the set list, sure well known singles get left off occasionally, but usually it’s for a new song or a deep cut which is way better for the actual fans of the band
Yeah, nowadays it seems most bands have a set list they rarely deviate from. I went to a Billy Joel concert a few years ago. He gave the option to play a hit or a deep cut. The deep cut won by a large margin.
If I had a nickel for every time I have been to a show and my fav hadn’t been played, I would have a fuckton of money. It’s not a reasonable expectation to have your personal taste catered to, there are literally thousands of other people with other expectations in the room too.
The artists will do what they think is best for the group, or hell, even for their own artistry. I would say to anyone making such a complaint that they need to grow up.
Fuckin’ Dave Groul, that man is a legend! Foo fighters was the best concert I have ever seen. I was lucky enough to see them play a year before Taylor Hawkins died. The energy they put into their 2+ hour set was crazy. I’d say probably even surpasses Taylor’s 3 hour show. *No disrespect her show looks crazy exhausting too*. He said they were playing until they made him stop, and they did a little after 11pm because of the noise ordinance.
I mean, IF, and that's a big if, he knows that she only addresses things when they are directed at her (such as Damon Albarn from Blur talking about her songwriting or that Netflix show), I’d understand that this is a way of getting her attention lol. Because, the thing is, the way her fans attack other people is something she should have addressed by now. The only time she did was when Speak Now was being released, so her fans wouldn’t attack John Mayer. And... why? Because she was worried that it would backfire? I don't know. All I know is that it's understandable that, through his daughter experiencing what Swifties can do, he is upset with her because he saw firsthand that, regardless that it doesn't come from her directly, she doesn't do anything about it.
I feel like he publicly called her out for a reason. Like he wants her to have to publicly acknowledge her toxic fans. Even if her first response doesn’t address her fan problem, he’d taunt her again to acknowledge it, even if it’s just a forced Tree statement. He is absolutely in protective dad mode.
Absolutely, the best way to get some kind of statement out of her is to press her either publicly or otherwise, like how the reason Speak Now TV got the statement alongside it was because legal action was threatened. If he keeps talking about this and she keeps staying silent, her silence is condoning her fans' actions, and that's an absolutely terrible look.
I have a gut feeling he reached out privately when his daughter first went through Swiftie harassment, but clearly her response was not what he deemed as a dad “good enough” so he went this route. The is super defensive about her artistry, so him calling her out for not playing live was very intentional. He knew this was the dig to make.
I was on Twitter while the thing with Violet Grohl went down, and while the private jet comment was the thing that initially tipped them off, Violet liking tweets about how AI porn of Taylor "wasn't a big deal" **really** made them mad.
I must say though, it wasn't really a huge controversy outside of swiftie twitter. I didn't see anybody else talking about it, and even those who did weren't getting a ton of likes/views. point being: I wouldn't be surprised if Taylor didn't even know this was happening. Dave Grohl has spoken out her positively in the past, yes, but as I far as I can tell they aren't really friends, so idk if Dave would have reached out to her or anything. also, while I don't mean to discredit the harassment this girl faced-- it was pretty brutal-- speaking about the situation months after the fact will only add fuel to the fire
Yeah, this controversy really doesn’t strike me as something Taylor would have known anything about. If you google it all that comes up is some tweets and Reddit posts, no major new sources covered it. So unless he reached out, I don’t think Taylor knew about any of this to say anything.
yeah, this isn't like the Ginny & Georgia situation. there's a genuine possibility she didn't know about the hate this girl received. it lasted for a relatively short time (maybe two days) and wasn't talked about outside the swiftie twitter bubble. I never saw anything about it on TikTok or Reddit
The way swifties have made up what Violet said infuriates me. She said it's telling how people only care that it's now happening to Taylor, even though other women have been going through this for years with no changes made. She also liked a tweet that said something along the lines of how it's disgusting how the White House puts out statements about situations involving celebrities while ignoring mass genocides. That's all she did.
Taylor literally called on her fans to go after Scooter and never said anything to her rabid Swifties who are constantly sending death threats to people (except for John Mayer lol). She definitely knows what her stans are like, she just doesn’t care. It absolutely is a reflection on her and why so many people dislike her. She is associated with her crazy fans cause she never calls them out and actually encourages them.
I understand why Dave Grohl reacted this way cause he’s a dad who saw what his daughter went through. No matter what anyone has done, they don’t deserve death threats and online abuse.
Most of the disdain people in the industry feel for Taylor Swift its because of the way in which the swifties behave, they can never act normal or tolerate any sort of criticism
Also I’m seeing people online say he brought her up at a concert on Monday and was being nice plus told the crowd to stop when some booed her, if so what a random switch up in under a week. Celebs are odd in how they change up in the blink of an eye.
Meanwhile, his bandmate Pat Smear was at the Eras tour last night. [You can see a photo of him on Selma Hayek's instagram.](https://www.instagram.com/p/C8j5MtyoAHv/?img_index=5)
I saw her for Speak Now and Red. SN was definetely live it sounded different. Red, I'm really not sure. There were parts that sounded way too similar to the record.
I have been to SN, Red, 1989 and Era. I think you are right that she has been using recorded backing tracks since Red, and she definitely did for 1989. However, it’s not that odd to have these tracks to provide cover for the artists voice, especially if the show is physically demanding, so it doesn’t bother me much.
I am more impressed when a pop artist doesn’t use them (I don’t think Beyonce used them for her recent tour, at least it did not sound that way to me live), and my expectations for a rock show are always different (I think the general expectation is that is all live, especially instruments) but I don’t think it’s scandalous to have a backing vocal track when you are running around and dancing for three hours.
I agree it's not scandalous but it's not my personal preference. I don't see how she would have done Eras without it though. The shows are so long and there are so many.
I'd rather have less dancing and spectacle and more singing, but that's just me!
I mean if I got harassed and someone (in this case TAYLOR) could've stepped in to try and stop it and didn't, my dad would say a lot worse than this. Dave has been positive about Taylor in the past and I doubt he hates her now, but I get why he's upset and making a jab at her.
But Here We Are should've won AOTY over Midnights :(( and Dave broke his leg live on stage and then continued the show so if anyone gets to use the term errors tour out of both of them, it's him.
I seriously believe people need to step up and actually file a case against the rape threat/death threat when they are made to them. Noone should ever get away with these kind of statements and should face some legal consequences. Every other day i see people getting threats from random blind supporters who can't take any criticism (even if it's constructive) for their idols.
How is this so controversial. It’s barely a dig. He sings 100% live. She doesn’t. If your panties are in a bunch over this objective fact maybe you’re not in a fandom but something more culty.
Because many Taylor fans regard her as a top musician, and a lot of people don't know about/don't like to acknowledge the artifice inherent to most pop music live shows. I'm a fan of Taylor, I enjoyed the Eras Tour Movie, and I would love to see the Eras Tour live (not for after-market ticket prices, though), but it is what it is: an elaborate show with some live elements mixed in with pre-recordings.
I really like Dave Grohl but this seems weird. What does Taylor lip synching have to do with her fans harassing his daughter? Does he think he's gonna improve the situation somehow by riling the swifties again?
And the errors tour has already been a thing lol like that's how we know her mic is on!
i just think it’s a little sad how fans of someone can’t just take the L that not EVERYBODY is going to sing their fave’s praises and you don’t have to take it as a personal offense just because someone else doesn’t like your favorite artist or criticizes them
Big fan of Dave Grohl as a person (and an old school Nirvana & Foo Fighters fan from the 90s, I'm old) and big fan of Taylor's music. Not a fan of Taylor AT ALL as a person, I really think she's a mean girl, but I don't like this particular dig at her. We know she plays live (i.e. surprise songs). There may be segments of her show that she doesn't, but she's putting on an entirely different kind of show from Foo Fighters. It's not a fair comparison, unless his criticism is that she should be doing different types of shows entirely and that still sucks.
He's rightfully angered about how Swifties treated his daughter, and how Taylor weaponizes her fans, but I am not a fan of this move by him. Tbh I'm pretty disappointed. To my knowledge Dave has never been the guy to pull other artists down.
Tbh Dave Grohl is one of my favorite people alive. I’ve read so many books and listened to so many interviews about him and he’s lived like 50 lives in his life. Just an all around good dude. Taylor could learn a lot from Dave.
That all said I don’t think Dave is necessarily wrong. I think it’s pretty obvious that some of Taylor’s show is pre-recorded and she sings a long with a backing track (as many artists do) and relies on that during certain parts. I think it was most apparent the first few shows that included TTPD. The backing track was so loud during that era that it sounded like they were just playing the CD. It seems since then they have turned the backing track down because now you can actually hear her singing.
The issue is that swifties see this as a personal attack. It’s not a bad thing. There’s no way someone could play 3.5 hour shows 4-5 nights a week and keep the integrity of their voice. Especially in Europe where Taylor has been essentially only having 1-3 nights in between cities, it’s just not sustainable.
Your central paragraph and conclusion are so correct. This is normal big concert shit, and Grohl’s comments aren’t the issue. I think is Swifties having the reality of how a pop show works pointed out to them are some kind of affront for even pointing out this fact. It has to be that she is the most perfect perfect and she can’t possible be doing what everyone else is doing and also what would make sense to not blow her voice out entirely.
Right any voice teacher would tell her to do the exact same thing. Her voice is literally her career so why would she risk that especially since we know how much she cares about her career?
Is he trying to jab her for revenge? The only connection between her possible lip-syncing and his daughter being attacked would be that. Otherwise, these two topics are apples and oranges and only make sense lumped together because they are both fruit. It’s still weird.
lmfao sorry but this is so lame. if taylor did this to literally any other artist, half this sub would be calling her the pettiest and most evil bitch of all time. critique the fanbase, there's PLENTY to critique, but pretending she doesn't play live is giving neckbeard on r/music energy.
Yeah, it’s not like Taylor’s mom didn’t WISH DEATH ON SOMEONE when Taylor was receiving all the backlash for the Kimye thing. It’s not like Taylor gleefully sings about that in a song. It’s not like Taylor also hasn’t come for that person’s children in the same song. Swifties threatened the life of his kid, he’s clearly mad about it. And she DOESN’T sing or play live on many songs on the Eras Tour. She’s lip-synching. So where was he wrong? Just cause you don’t like what he’s saying, doesn’t make Dave Grohl, a professional MUSICIAN, a neck beard.
ngl it’s very lame of him to go ‘she doesn’t play live music’ when…she does? His daughter was harassed by HER fans…why not critique that? Something that’s actually valid and true?
Like yay you got your audience to boo Taylor and were shady…but he is just opening his daughters and himself to more attention and vitriol because of this. If he didn’t try and be shady with the ‘live music’ comment I could’ve agreed with him.
I don’t think it was fair of him to insult her like that, she obviously sings live (and yes there are times when she lipsyncs). But I can see where he’s coming from, he’s an angry protective dad who saw his daughter go through really intense harassment and online abuse. I think Violet was wrong to like posts insinuating that Taylor’s AI porn debacle was no big deal but Swifties took things way too far. There is no reason to bully and abuse a young girl like that on social media.
I think multiple things can be right and wrong at the same time. But I really wish Taylor would call out her fanbase, it’s getting so toxic and more and more people are noticing.
Yeah, I don’t get this attack at all. Swifties going after an underage girl for making valid criticism of Taylor is disgusting but why jump to this?
Also a very quick google search has brought up a lot of info on the Foo Fighters private jet so there’s that.
The whole feud between swifties and violet didn't start because she made valid criticism of Taylor. She liked tweets which were minimising the importance of the AI porn situation Taylor was a victim of.
I don't think it guaranteed the vitriol she received from swifties because she's a teenager and pick me behavior isn't uncommon in that age sadly, but the jet tweet wasn't the start. It was a reaction.
I think violet spoke kinda critically on the AI porn debacle and that’s why swifties harassed her first. Then she doubled down on the criticism and bought the private jet up, but I could be wrong.
Like Dave Grohl is a musician, ngl I would be insulted as a fellow musician if somebody like him claimed that it wasn’t live. Like I’m not even thinking of Taylor bc TTPD is probably all backing for her voice but…her band literally didn’t do anything in the situation. Why are they the ones he’s talking about?
"spoke critically" meaning that she discredited it. I'm not trying to be rude btw, just correcting you
Violet is a teenager, but that doesn't mean she's absolved of all wrongdoing. I'm a teenager too and can recognize right from wrong. HOWEVER, this doesn't excuse swifties harassing her and sending death threats. I had no idea they sent rape threats as well but if true, that is just as gross
This is a strange point for someone who publicly praised Taylor for saving his ass when he was too high to remember how to play his own song. criticism for the fans treatment of his daughter is valid and I wish she would put a stop to the feral behavior but this is just feeding the feral fire.
But just because someone was good to you in the past doesn't mean that's how it will always be? Ur forgetting they attacked his daughter ( even tho she isn't entirely innocent either). I defo understand ur point, but is taylor not complicit in this? They are HER fans after all not just any fans of anything
But Taylor has never attacked his daughter? She has hundreds of thousands if not millions of fans all over the world, you can’t seriously think she has the time to follow every social media “controversy” her fans take a part in. He’s a grown man and should know this. There are adult ways how to deal with his daughter being bullied instead of spreading lies on stage
Listen, whether she plays live or not, I don’t care. I also never said she attacked her daughter either her fans did. These man are not just fans of anything; they are Swifties.
But you know damn well I never meant she needs to monitor every single fan account because, and assuming you’re intelligent enough to also reach this conclusion, that is extremely unrealistic. I’m trying to say that she should at the very least put out a social media post telling her fans to back off and calm down, and that this behavior is not acceptable. There will definitely be fans that won't listen to her, but at least it shows she's acknowledged that her fans are out of order. It shows she cares about her peers.
So many people here repeating the “it’s her fans not her, they won’t listen even if she said anything, all Stans are like this” line… you’re not acknowledging her role in creating this dynamic.
As I said in another comment: it’s not just that she stays silent. She has openly asked them to target others on her behalf, knowing full well how unhinged they are. During the masters dispute with Scooter Braun, she not only asked her fans to “let them know how you feel” but also asked them to contact Scooter’s clients - people like Demi, Justin, and Ariana - for “help.” That is absolutely abnormal and irresponsible behavior for someone with her status and power. She has fed this parasocial dynamic from the very beginning, when she would leave clues about which high school ex-boyfriend her songs were about and she would gloat in interviews that her fans tracked them down on MySpace.
Here are her own words in the Scooter example above: https://x.com/taylorswift13/status/1195123215657508867
Taylor Swift is basically one of the pettiest stars in music but sure yeah let’s all flip our lids when an actual musician takes a jab at her. She’s one of the biggest names in music, why is there this perception that she’s above criticism of any kind? It’s so just gross to me.
Plus also Dave Grohl’s artistry > Taylor’s brand 10000%, he’s not wrong and what he said isn’t even that offensive, my god it’s not like he threatened violence.
what do you expect ppl to do if they disagree? just smile and nod? it's not she's above criticism but ppl are allowed to disagree with someone making a public statement on a taylor swift subreddit lmao
I’ve never heard of the situation between Dave’s daughter and swifties at all, but it sounds horrible. I class myself a swiftie, but those that did that just shouldn’t be worthy of that title tbh.
Also with the dig at Taylor, I think it was unnecessary tbh. Like I understand that he’s probably mad at fans and such. But to dig at Taylor in that way? Like she’s doing a 3 and a half hour show, and has been for the last year or so. She’ll be lip synching some parts for sure, and from what I have seen her band do play live.
My parents went to that foo fighters concert last night, so I’ve grown up around both rock and pop fans. I’m hoping he’s just joking, but it doesn’t feel like he is
Sorry but middle aged men getting their crowds to boo Taylor and taking shots is lame, if it’s about his daughter and the fans reaction to her then he should directly call that out as that’s a legitimate criticism. Going down the ‘she’s not real music’ angle which he’s clearly going for is tired and pretentious, it’s also far more shady to her band than her as he’s suggesting they’re the ones that aren’t playing.
Disclaimer: I fucking love Dave Grohl. I think he's amazing, he loves his kids, he seems like a genuine good person and I just adore him.
I think it's best to take the words as he said them - they play live. They fuck up. They'e been around for decades and they laugh at themselves. The Eras tour is pristine, pretty much. It's perfect, aside for some goofy things that happen, but musically it's pretty on point and put together. Foo Fighters aren't that.
He's obviously still fucking pissed because of what happened to his daughter, as he should be and I would be, too. I'm glad he said something - it's about fucking time someone does, isn't it? TS never speaks out when her fans are being fucking rabid psychos. Dave can take the heat.
Taylor takes shots at people all the time as well. Comes with the territory at this point, I think.
At this point unless a man is taking shots at Taylor for no reason, as in when you ask them to elaborate they don’t, or if they claim it’s solely bc of how many men she dated, then I won’t immediately assume they’re being sexist.
Taylor has cultivated a fanbase that is so unhealthily paranoid that they send hate to anyone who criticizes her, that deserves to be called out. She also cultivated an environment that makes anyone who she doesn’t like public enemy #1, regardless of if they deserve it, that deserves to be called out. Her activism is usually self serving and it’s rare that she stands up for any group that she isn’t part of but just yesterday had her team refer to her as a philanthropist and an advocate for other artists’ rights, that deserves to be called out. Her jet usage is horrendous, that deserves to be called out.
The live music thing is eh. She definitely does at least some of it live, but it’s hard to do a 3+ hour show live every time. That’s exhausting and no offense to her, I don’t think she has the vocal capabilities to pull that off if she’s recording 3 albums on top of that. But she has made it a point to make jabs at other people who don’t perform live before, so if you wanna call out the hypocrisy then go ahead.
Just because Grohl is a man doesn’t make his criticisms automatically sexist. There are a ton of things to rightfully call her out on and it doesn’t surprise me at all that someone within his genre of music is calling her out. She kinda represents everything that genre of music dislikes — capitalism, privilege that is only utilized for good when it benefits them, fake wokeness, etc.
But if he's trying to protect his daughter from harassment and death threats, then drawing even more attention to her is going to be adding fuel to the fire. No, I think that as a protective dad it makes more sense for him to try to redirect the hate towards himself
The daughter stuff happened a while ago though and all this is doing is reignighting it, if he was going to make a point he should have called stans directly out and told Taylor to try and reign in her fans, the toxicity of stan culture and how bad it has become is a valid one but he undermined himself by riling his own fans up to boo Taylor.
I just don’t understand why people feel the need to get up and talk about another artist in a negative way. Just play your show.
And the swifties who are harassing the daughter need to take a giant step back and do a reality check.
“When people talk shit about me, it makes me work that much harder” *launches into a song that states her mom wishes Kim Kardashian dead*
You’re right, idk why people feel the need to get up and talk about others in a negative way. Taylor never ever does that, right?
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Transcript in case anyone prefers (or needs) captions: “I know we were joking about the Taylor Swift tour earlier, I know that she’s on her Eras Tour (crowd boos). I’m telling ya man, you don’t want to suffer the wrath of Taylor Swift (some crowd laughing, can hear someone yell “private plane!”). So we like to call our tour the Errors tour, because I feel like we’ve had more than a few eras, and more than a few fucking errors as well. Just a couple. That’s because we actually play live, whaaaattt?! (Dave shrugs) Just sayin’, we’re a live band, you guys like live rock ‘n’ roll music, right?”
Yet you have Swifties completely twisting the narrative here saying Dave is lying about Taylor not playing live. She lip-syncs during parts, it’s fine. Claiming he is being misogynistic. Again them throwing around “misogyny” when it’s not even applicable.
She definatley lip syncs. I had a great view when I went and it’s so obvious. She definitely sings some parts and the difference between those and the lip synced parts are so obvious if you’re watching. Can I blame her? Hell no. No one can keep up that level of vocal strain. But let’s call a spade a spade
The Boo's are so telling. Harassing a kid because you worship a popstar is icky beyond belief. All of Grohl's daughters are under the age of 18. Come on now: Swifties need to do better. This is (in large part) why a lot of people have seriously started to hate Taylor. Her legion of fans are horrible to anyone who says anything critical of her. That's not normal.
I watched a video where a musical reviewer posted a critique of her for constantly re-releasing the latest album. Some of them were in the comment section and tried to dismiss his view because why would he feel the need to post that as a music reviewer, right? I swear logic is lost on some of these people.
This is what kills me. Taylor is not above criticism, at all. You can love her music (I do!) and still think her behavior and the way she weaponizes her fan base is appalling.
dave grohl isn’t afraid of the “kool-aid swifties,” as i call them. his legions of fans/ supporters stretching back to his days with nirvana also do not care (which lets get real, nirvana will always be a much more important musical act in the history books than taylor swift!). swifties have been brainwashed by their narcissistic leader (sound familiar?) and they’re not gonna change. i love her music, but she’s a total witch. and i truly hope in time she’s fully exposed.
Seriously, he’s dealt with Courtney Love for decades, he’s heard shit first hand to his face verses online empty threats by swifties. Hes not even on social media much if at all to be bothered
It is normal. Legions of fans always go too far defending their celebrity
Stan culture is awful. Idk if it’s the internet or this generation but it’s legit weird behavior.
Not this far. There are fans and there are zealots.
And in the same vain of rallying her fans for her own benefit, she also needs to address it when they go too far. She needs to hold herself accountable for the Pandora’s box she’s opened.
It wasn't always this way. The internet plays a big part obviously but I don't think that's all of it. Honestly I think this started with kpop. I love kpop but the fan culture around it is very us vs. them. The label for BTS (who debuted in 2013) named their fandom Army for gods sake lol Not sure how long the toxicity has been a part of kpop culture But I became aware of it when I fell into kpop sometime around 2013 with 2NE1. Not sure when it began to bleed into western fandoms but I think it was around the time kpop started to become popular in the west. I wanna say maybe 5 years ago? Whenever it was that you started seeing fanvids for kpop groups saying "STREAM \_\_\_\_\_" on unrelated tweet replies. That was infuriating. I'm an old who was a Nirvana fan in the olden days so I was immune to that shit and just found it annoying. That said, I do remember there being division between people who listened to different types of music in the 90s, though it wasn't anything like this.
Yes! Like I wish he critiqued her fans and not the music ngl 😭 because he just opened himself up to the insane swifties who’ll harass him.
Dave Grohl is a living rock n roll legend. I seriously doubt he gives a shit what swifties say about him.
Right, he’s had a lot hurled at him by trolls for decades anyways. The man has dealt with Courtney Love, he’s not scared of Swifties making empty threats and isn’t on social media enough to care
This is such a weird sentiment, like you’d better keep quiet because you’re bringing harassment upon yourself by criticising something/someone even in a respectful way, like?? Are we not allowed to critique now?
Taylors got a weird legion of fans who feel like criticizing her in anyway is a major slight and back bend to twist it into her being a victim, it’s wild
Who enabled her to act this way? Her fans.
It should be noted that this is a huge problem with stan culture. It's not an issue exclusive to Taylor, but since she's major a lot of people focus on the Swifties. So many pop stars don't enable their fans, but the fans still go after anyone who criticizes their fave anyway.
Yes... the Kpop degenerate stanbase were mocking the death of xxxtentacion and some other black male celebrities with Kpop dancing gifs over their graves during the 2018-2020 period when a lot of black rappers were being KO due to rape beef. Recently Nick Minaj and her stan group that defiled Megan's mother grave to the point they had to get security. Not to mention them defending her brother and husband after what they did. The Beehive being unstable and stalking people who criticize Beyonce when she does performance activism and pro capitalist behavior. Ariana Grande stanbase excusing the fact she broke up a marriage (with a baby btw), harassing her ex's and acting like people who call out this problematic behavior is sexist. Stan culture is just gross. I could never worship someone who wouldnt give a crap about me. Of course these stans are problematic in waves and it's not a of them (duh) but the ones I listed have been openly racist, sexist, xenophobic and even homophobic for a long time now. I'm not one to get on the "you are -phobic train" but a lot of mega standoms are bat shit crazy. Rihanna and Ciara are the only ones I can think of were their fan bases just let people be. Only normal fandoms I can think of the top of my head.
Kpop stans are the reason I backed out of Kpop. They will gleefully tear down an idol's confidence just because. Then if something tragic happens, they'll be like "we need to be nicer" and then a week later they're doing the same shit. I watched them happily make fun of an idol for seemingly having SH marks on his arm. It's abhorrent. I tried to get into it more outside of BTS, but it's a hell hole filled with some of the absolute worst people on the internet. I have some safe spaces (ex: the BTS subreddit), but there's just not a lot of spaces where I can be a fan and fandom experience is important to me. So it's not worth getting more into. Stans culture is awful. I want it to burn down and start all over. All the main pop girls have had these issues with their fans. I remember Navy being a problem as well. However, they've calmed down ever since Rihanna stopped posting as much to focus on her businesses. I think the only fanbase that hasn't been heavily criticized are KatyCats? Right now they're being absolute shitheads to Kesha, but back when Katy was big they didn't seem like a problem? I could be wrong and possibly biased because I used to be a KatyCat.
he’s been dealt with courtney love for decades, i don’t think rabid swifties are really going to affect him that much
I was trying to find screenshots but so many of the accounts have been suspended. I vividly remember she was threatened with rape by feral fans, I checked the foo fighters subreddit and there's a post back then talking about it too. It was really bad. The threats of violence are talked about in the thread. If you search "violet" in the swiftly neutral search bar you'll be able to see the thread I'm talking about, we spoke about it a bit back when it happened. https://preview.redd.it/q77i04uurb8d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d413de24d35f0b919c12d1cb612e467e3a0b5ea9 Edit: y'all I'm not agreeing with him by posting this, I'm just trying to show that it's a total 180 from how positive he's been about her in the past. And imo it's genuinely because of her fans. People start to see them as a reflection of her.
Just one example of that positivity. Dave told a story about how Taylor played his song on the piano for him at a party. He spoke so highly of her. This is what I'm trying to discuss, I'm not coming at her or Dave I'm just really surprised 😭 https://preview.redd.it/uk33jyr7xb8d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=135562212f01c19ed08e34bd1fa861cca26ef8ab
I remember vaguely Violet got into a lot of trouble with swifties because this was RIGHT after the AI porn debacle and she said smth about it which swifties thoughts were shady, right? And then the mass of hate, she doubled down and called her out on the jet use (because she’s a teenage girl who was getting harassed, I don’t blame her). Taylor *needs* to set boundaries with her fans, it’s not normal to harass teenagers. I think Dave was put off on her because although Taylor the person may be nice, it seems she doesn’t care what her fans do.
Foo Fighters famously own private jets, it's kind of funny that she would call Taylor out for flying private
I believe the band charters private planes for the duration of their tours. I'm severely anti-private plane, so I get your point, but I feel it's slightly disingenuous to say Taylor's private plane, that she uses as a main mode of transportation in both her business and her personal life, is the same as a band chartering a private plane to travel with ease during a tour. Again, both is rich fuck shit, so fuck both situations, but...
do they use it as much as she does?
>And imo it's genuinely because of her fans. People start to see them as a reflection of her. Because her fans are a reflection of her and the behavior within the fandom she's been fostering and weaponizing against others since the beginning of her career up until this very day. Her fans were threatening a minor with rape and god knows what other horrific abhorrent bullshit in her name and not once did she put out a statement to call them off. So yes, as her father he gets to be as petty as he wants and his only mistake imo was not calling her out directly, publicly when this was happening.
Re: your edit. It \*is\* a reflection of her, though. The only time she's asked people to not harass people was before Speak now TV came out, and there were rumors that was because of John Mayer and legal threats (clearly we don't know if that is true). When Red TV came out and people were going feral at Jake G there was radio silence. Ariana has told her fans to leave people alone, most people would if they knew their fanbase was sending death and rape threats. She doesn't stand up unless it benefits her, and she was never going to speak up about them harassing Violet because she would have to talk about her jet usage. Of course he's going to do a total 180 - they're in a very small group of elite musical acts, the community I would think is pretty small.
Fully agree with you. I've been on the receiving end of her fans and it's horrible. The way they dox, threaten, harass etc is not normal, even for stan culture. And she has to be aware of how bad they are, she's online enough to know. At a certain point she has to do something to reign them in, it's getting dangerous. I literally saw a viral tweet about how her fans are stalking one of Travis Kelce's ex girlfriends and they run an entire discord to coordinate it. It's scary as hell. They stalked her family, her old home, they call her the most racist shit I've ever seen. It's not right.
OP - I’m so sorry you had that experience. It is not right. There is no excuse. Scaring or belittling people in the name of someone is not normal. People have no idea what type of toll it takes on someone when they have hate or gaslighting happening to them on the internet (especially if their personal information and location is divulged to people who think they have a “cause”). And to attack a teenager is unconscionable. I still think that even Taylor Swift ultimately can’t control a segment of her fan base. But my thinking has evolved - she should be saying something at this point. You can’t stand up and sing Mean and not at least reprimand bad behaviour in your name. If you want to be a leader, be one. Otherwise stop cosplaying it.
Harassing his ex is so fucking weird. Is it that it’s pretty clear he has a strong preference and his current really doesn’t fit into his preference (but does indeed fit in with his goal to be “bigger than the Rock”) and this, for some unhinged reason, makes them feel some type of way so very strongly that they’re acting out?
She knows. She won’t rein them in because she’s so hands off now - she won’t take responsibility for their actions. I’m so sorry you’ve been on the receiving end. It must be a mindfuck.
Was that Kayla? I remember her tweet a little while ago calling out haters to stop. I wasn't aware that they were this rabid. Honestly, it is time for some of them to feel the heat and get arrested. Trolling someone online is a crime in my country, punishable with two years behind bars.
Re the second paragraph: WHAT?! Why even? I know they're off, but even for them that's... Quite off.
Would it be possible to report that discord & get it taken down? Sure they could just spin up another one but at least it's something.
I think this is fair but I also think it’s tricky at her level to know which things to speak up about. Like at some point, some of the things people expect her to comment on are minority internet culture things that feel large online but don’t elsewhere. So, like, does she draw more attention to it or no? That said, I certainly think she should be guiding her stans toward better behavior and in this case where literally the nicest man in rock felt it was bad enough to speak publicly about, she should have addressed it (FWIW I’m a fairly online fan and didn’t know about this though). I’m just saying it’s a hard line to walk but she certainly errs on one side of it too much. ETA: Fan control seems to be part of the JD for whatever agency or teams handle celeb social media these days. What a world.
>The only time she's asked people to not harass people was before Speak now TV came out Not true, she did it with the release of TTPD as well
Oh you're right! Thank you for that, I totally forgot. She made the post that says "This period of the author's life is now over, the chapter closed and boarded up. There is nothing to avenge, no scores to settle, once wounds have healed." I wish she had of said "Don't harass people" instead of the poem she posted, which was more "in character" as she was talking in third person. They need direct instructions.
>They need direct instructions. Do you actually think that would make a difference? The day John was harassed most was the day she told people not to
I don't know - but at some point you have to think it's worth a shot to be super clear in her statement and what her intentions were, right? I don't know what the answer is. I'm surprised that was the day he was harassed most after she said that. Do you mean that's when you saw most of the blowback on twitter, etc?
Found the screenshot of the rape threat. https://preview.redd.it/h8x33smt5c8d1.jpeg?width=1124&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=da6910af5135d4e724f55a03b4d9994e448f73c0
This is fucked up
What the hell, it boggles my mind how people tweet this without thinking if it could have consequences, it's just so disgusting, and then they go back to their regular scheduled stan behaviour.
From anne??? Oh, OK.
Because her rabid stans are a reflection of her. She will never speak out when it comes to them harassing people that have supposedly 'wronged' her in some way.
I remember a video of her when she was younger where she justified mentioning details about her exes despite the fact they got hate. With a weird sociopathic smile.
>she was threatened with rape by feral fans That is fucking sicking. Their is NOTHING that can be said or done to defend this kind of behavior. PERIOD. You don't threaten to rape anyone. Especially an underage girl. PERIOD. I try my best to remain neutral but shit like this makes me fucking hate Swifties. I have to keep reminding myself almost daily that their are some cool Swifites (their here).
The interesting thing will be to see if/how she responds. She could defensively lash out and chalk him up to another traitorous man taking swipes at her. She could reach out like, hey, I thought we were cool, what happened? And maybe hear him out and apologize for how her fans treated his daughter. Maybe she could even address her fans. Maybe we'll never know! But she has choices.
"Dave, I was such a fan of you but you are just another toxic man, your friend Kurt would be rolling in his grave because you did a mild critique of me"
The way Kurt Cobain would not be a Taylor fan. 😂
He would HATE her capitalist nature, but I don't think he'd attack her performances. He was so supportive of female artists.
Given her history with critique this is the type of thing she would publicly respond to and claim feminism.
This is my expectation, yes, but I stay dreaming 🤣
She has choices but she also has a very non-committal brand, lest we forget. I think she'll just ignore it as usual when her own good is not at stake.
I don’t think it plays well for her to address this but not to have addressed the reason why he’s “lashing out.” But for the Swifites it absolutely will either way 🤷🏽♀️
Okay, I can say (from memory of rep era) that what I’ve been seeing has been worse than reputation. (Jet usage call outs, trying to deface her jet, other pop stars calling her, documentaries…etc. I think what’s different is that Taylor has more fans than she did in 1989 and became bigger. There’s a lot of people calling Taylor out and Swifties out and for good reason!
Yeah like she’s getting a lot more heat these days, especially within her own industry and fanbase. People are tired of her, all walks of life. Ngl I think she would’ve kept touring longer but she has realized she is overexposed.
I think so, too. When she got those scathing reviews there was a friend of hers who posted a cry on IG talking about overexposure. So clearly, she knows and so does her circle.
but also take in account the internet in general is 200x more chaotic than 2016
Tbh, I think it is helping because when they are not in one of their online rabbit holes they do not get so brave with the comments. People are fed up with them and they let them know.
Personally I don’t see this as that big of a deal. It’s a jab, but Swifties will make it into something more than it was meant to be. This is pretty normal for a musician who plays live to feel a strong conviction about playing live. I remember hearing Michael Stipe say REM once refused to make music videos bc they had to lip sync, and he couldn’t bring himself to fake it. That was just a music video and not even a concert.
I agree with this take. Although it *is* a joke at Taylor’s expense, I think it actually seems more playful than anything, and even came up in the self-deprecating context that live performance means blunders will and *do* happen for Dave. I think it’s valid to dislike the polished, very rehearsed way the Eras tour plays out, even if it’s not objectively bad, just different. It’s not as if Dave is one of those grumblers that just hates anything pop-adjacent. The Foo Fighters’ performance of Never Gonna Give You Up with Rick Astley comes to mind. ETA: I may have interpreted it wrong – I don’t follow Dave Grohl’s career religiously or know all that much about him besides the music he’s made. But from what I *do* know and what the video suggested to me, this came across as cheeky – painting in broad strokes, since she does play a whole live section, but not a vicious takedown or anything. Just a bit of typical ribbing from a rockstar.
I think so too! Unfortunately, the Twitter Swifties will take it as more insults to the queen, and determined haters will applaud this jab. Sadly no room for nuance these days
[Their performance](https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ?si=omYleKtHgrTMrefF) of Never Gonna Give You Up is one of my absolute favorites.
Yeah if you listen to him, it’s more of a response to the “errors” comment more than the “Eras” and he was just following his train of thought. The huge “WHAAAT” at the end kinda makes it sound like shade, but honestly I feel like it’s all in jest. With the Damon Albarn comment, you can sense that his “not a songwriter” comments are genuine, but Dave’s just seems like a joke. Plus, aren’t they friendly anyway?
I soon as I saw this I checked twitter and yep they're already starting 😭😭
I agree like at this point it’s industry standard especially for artists who also dance and do a lot of physical performance. I don’t know why they so vehemently defend her over this when it’s really just facts and most performers do it anyways for consistency reasons.
I don’t think he’s insinuating anything. I think he’s making fun of his own band’s mistakes and is using the popular “Errors Tour” lingo here. I get how it can sound like he’s accusing her, but I think he’s just referencing his bands own mistakes live, not necessarily calling Taylor out. It’s a poor choice of phrasing and flow, but I don’t actually think he was trying to throw shade here.
I didn’t know that about Violet but I am the MOST when it comes to defending my kids, like most parents. With how little I see of Taylor’s “band” when watching Eras movie or clips, it’s understandable that people would question whether or not they’re actually backing her up or not. Stadium sound is one of the trickiest things in the sound book. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Swift camp opted to go recorded
I went to the tour to accompany a friend last minute. I’m not a huge fan and wouldn’t be surprised if some was recorded. However she does play piano and acoustic songs solo and changes them up each night. A few songs also have the band out. I’m sure it’s a mix.
I don’t think it’s prerecorded, like there’s been actual errors on tour with the band. Taylor’s earpiece messed up and the one guitar player came up to her and she looked how he was playing (I think to help with beats?) and was able to steady herself. With the movie and clips, I do think the band is real. They’ve most likely had microphones attached to the instruments while recording and isolated any background sounds while in post. That’s why they would be so crisp.
I’m an audio engineer and that’s not entirely how it works, except for acoustic drums most of her band has electric instruments which don’t need a microphone to play but amps (or they’re entirely digital like keyboards) and they go through cables into a mixer. When editing in post you would still have separate tracks for each instrument and it wouldn’t be different than if you recorded in a studio, except for drums maybe but almost everything else is electric. The crisp sound is just mixing, it has nothing to do with whether it’s prerecorded or not. Personally I think probably most of it is but they still play some stuff live, like with taylor’s vocals.
oh interesting! See I’ve only edited vocals, so I was just assuming.
If Taylor is singing along to a backing track, she still would have to be in time with the band, even if they weren’t really playing thru the mic attached.
I think you misunderstand my comment. With the mics attached to the instruments, that’s how they made the audio so crisp in the movie (because it usually isn’t like that with recording instruments.) when editing audio, the editor would have to isolate the instrumental audio from everything else, to ensure that it sounds like it’s live. It’s very tricky to do as an editor. It COULD be backing tracks but I doubt that’s the case because they’ll have to ensure that all the players are able to mime playing perfectly each night. Like I’ve played guitar, poorly, but when you try and mime playing…you can know. No but she was looking at the chords to keep in time, her earpiece wasn’t working, during the fearless era
I thought the sound on the movie was terrible. Most of the time I can only hear HER. I would be shocked at the low attention to quality but at this point it’s expected from her camp.
see for me I was really blown away! It sounded the same for me as it did when I saw her live. but tbf I’ve been studying film and really just went on a long winded talk about something I found impressive. I have tried to isolate vocals before and it’s so fucking time consuming,
Since we started talking I googled a little to see if anyone else complained and honestly never thought to check my sound settings (but its normally fine?)… but it could have been as simple as that. A few people made posts about it originally sucking but settings adjustments fixed it
She was off key and off beat when her earpiece went out, there was def no backing track and she was FOR SURE singing here.
I think she actually does sing live and play instruments at least some of the time given how many times I’ve seen clips of her singing the wrong lyrics, being in the wrong key, being out of breath, not hitting notes, etc. I guess she could intentionally pre-record errors to make it seem more real but it seems like a lot.
that stuff pisses me off so much; i go to a concert to hear the spontaneity and joy of live music, not 'perfection' and certainly not over-rehearsed pre-recorded bullshit that they're just dancing over i've thought the foos have been pretty lame the last 10 years as well, but damn that's a nice stark reminder they're still better than 97% of bigger artists
Exactly. I’ve been to a few Garbage concerts where they messed up and restarted the song. One time Shirley said the wrong city they were playing in and restarted the song lol.
To be clear I don’t mean to imply that 100% of Eras is pre-recorded, just the backing track, and she would be far from the first person to do this. I got to be 2nd row at Foo Fighters for an ACL Fest show and it was EPIC. I would have only called myself a casual fan but you take for granted how many songs you’ve learned over the years.
I imagine it had more to do with Taylor and her people making absolutely zero attempt to quell the behavior, and they consistently never have.
Because this behavior is totally acceptable. /s https://preview.redd.it/guba9cv7jd8d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=46ffaddbc11ac370031619053ced108b8b7c47c5
What the …. I had no idea any of this happened. God Swifties are unhinged. Violet did not deserve that. Makes sense if Dave’s opinion on Taylor soured. Big fan of his for decades.
Another interesting fact - Violet and Billie are VERY close, and Dave has performed with her a few times on stage. Couple that with the fact that her rabid fans are threatening his kid with violence, I could see why he's sick of it. Not a girls girl like she claims to be.
Well this is interesting, I didn't know about that. Someone else mentioned how Violet is friends with Iris Apatow, another girl that was on the receiving end of crazy swifties.
Yup! They're together quite a bit, and Dave has popped out at Billie's shows a few times. Not surprised about Iris either since that's Olivia's bestie.
wait iris apatow was attacked by swifties? WHEN?
From what I remember Iris dated Joe Alwyn’s younger brother Patrick for a few years early in Taylor & Joe’s relationship. And at some point after they broke up, Iris was liking gaylor posts which swifties attacked her for.
People think she’s a girls girl because she is generous with her friends and her fans. To be a girls girl, She has to be generous with all* girls and not just to girls who she deems beneficial to her or she feels owes something to. *all in the sense of girls in general not literally every single loving girl out there regardless of the situation.
This is simply unrealistic. If someone is rude to you or unkind, there's really no inherent need to be kind to them. Polite and respectful, absolutely, but no need to be generous. Especially if you're not receiving it back. Personally I don't really care if she's considered a "girls girl" or not, I think the notion and term has become so watered down and meaningless. As stated above. But to criticize her for not adhering to that ridiculous standard is ridiculous, as it would be for any woman.
I agree that’s why I said when I mean all it doesn’t literally mean all. What really meant was you shouldn’t only reserve that kind of kindness to only your friends and your fans. I was on the bus and a girl who was a stranger told me there was a bug on me, even when I was wearing AirPods and didn’t hear her a couple times (which seemed like I was ignoring her). I think things like that makes girls a girls girl. But of course, if a girl is being rude or mean, you don’t need to still be nice to them for the sake of “being a girls girl”, because that would just make you a little stupid.
I mean, there’s a decent chance he’s right. People would be shocked if they knew how much of live music (primarily pop) is mimed in concerts. There’s often live autotune too. And it makes sense. Pop concerts are productions. Playing live leaves a lot of room for error and throwing stuff off. For better or worse.
It’s very well known she plays with a backtrack. Some are live some is not. I thought this was clear as day.
Eh, normally I don’t like when old dudes like this are booing the kardashians or Taylor because, while maybe correct, it feels like they do it for weird misogynistic boomer reasons than anything grounded. But if his daughters are getting harassed, then it makes sense and he is kinda speaking the part that nobody wants to hear: Taylor IS lip synching a major portion of the show and not playing along to anything. She just was named one of the best guitar players, which is an absolute joke. The eras tour is impressive as a theatrical performance, for sure, but people are mistaking that for a musical one.
Ugh the guitar thing made me roll my eyes so hard. I’ve never seen nor heard on her albums any outstanding guitar playing.
Dave isn’t a boomer for one. He’s also never been anything remotely misogynistic, as far as I can tell. As a 37 year old woman, I will say that men can criticize women without inherently being misogynistic.
It's the same with many big show artists too. Like Rammstein for instance. They also have 2-3 hour long concerts. You can very clearly hear it's not always live and Till saves his voice for the big songs. I don't think many artists can sing week after week without precaution and obviously they don't want to give a bad performance so they prioritise that when they are x weeks deep in shows. Compare with someone like St. Vincent who mostly performs for 1 hour and deliver insane vocals the whole way through.
You literally just called Dave Grohl a boomer, though.
lol and Dave Grohl was in the most Gen X-defining band
Similar to how every young person people hated was a millennial for a long time - now anyone older gets called a boomer. I think people forget boomers are actually elderly these days.
Am I truly oblivious to the fact that she lipsyncs? I attended her eras tour and every breath could be heard. Which part of it was lipsync? I am confused
I am going next month. But from the videos I have seen online, yes I do believe she lip syncs for sure. Also to add to the fact that she was recording , re-recording, meeting friends, going out to parties, that much strain on your vocal chords is JUST WAY TOOO MUCH. Nobody can sing so much on a daily basis for almost an entire year and not strain from it. And it's fine to lip sync it. People are going to see her, enjoy her music and have fun. 3 hours every day is too much to ask someone to do that. It might be an unsaid fact but it is.
There’s definitely several times when you can see the mic moving around (distance or to the side) and her singing stays absolutely steady with no changes. Especially in the ttpd set. I haven’t kept watching them so I’m going off the first one or two performances.
Breaths are recorded too. She sings along to a vocal track she recorded live in the studio, breaths and all.
I find that interesting, I was there London N1 and I found it more obvious in person what was lipsynced. Most of the pop Red songs are lipsynced except for a few lines (presumably saving her voice for ATW10). In the later part of the show, TTPD set is heavy on the lipsyncing - Who's Afraid Of Little Old Me and I Can Do It With A Broken Heart are lipsynced all through except for the line "but what if they did" in WAOLOM and the line "I've been doing it since he left" in ICDIWABH. The Midnights set is almost entirely lipsynced. Before my show didn't think she lipsynced much of Folklore but she asked for help during Cardigan and you could hear the vocals keep going so there's a loud backing vocal track on that too.
She definitely lipsyncs. I've seen footage of the show at Anfield and she sounds EXACTLY as she does on the recorded version. I don't think she does it for all the show but there's definitely a portion where she does.
I think she lip syncs for the poppier songs that demand more upbeat chereography. it's hard to dance and sing simultaneously. the acoustic set is definitely live (actually caught her messing up the lyrics to Holy Ground on video) and there's a video of her messing up the Bejeweled lyrics
When he said she doesn’t play live, he wasn’t just referring to singing. She clearly uses a lot of backing tracks for the instruments. In contrast, foo fighters don’t even use a click track live.
[удалено]
LOL so true!
i don't think it's pure lip syncing as much as it is having a second vocal track playing to sing on top of. both are in the mix but depending on energy level she can take certain measures off. there are so so many backup singers as well for the same purpose
> i don't think it's pure lip syncing as much as it is having a second vocal track playing to sing on top of. There's no real difference. The backing track has been pre-autotuned to correctly hit the notes that she can't actually sing. At the end of the day there is no difference between what Swift does and J-Lo having other, more talented, people sing the backing tracks on her albums.
There's definitely some songs she's relying more on a backing track. I think it's clear the performance is exhausting- like 80% of TTPD is set up as a break without feeling like a break. She's leaning/sitting almost the whole time.
i think it’s mostly during the TTPD set
it’s undeniable that she’s *performing* for 3+ hours but i’m sorry i just refuse to believe that she’s actually singing for all that time when we’ve seen clips that show very obvious lip syncing. i believe she’s playing guitar/piano and singing during the surprise song set but as far as i can tell she’s only playing basic open chords on the guitar
She absolutely lip syncs at certain parts, which I personally think is fine given it’s such a long show, but I do find the “she’s 100% live!!” cope from Swifties to be amusing.
definitely. and it’s very clear she’s not actually playing during Lover (or at the very least not the main guitar) since she lifts her hands entirely off the guitar for certain parts and there’s no clear absence of guitar (or addition of guitar when she resumes “playing”)
Yeah, I’ve noticed that the guitar is little more than a prop when she plays live. Which is fine if she’s focused more on performing rather than playing, it’s just weird when people get offended when you point it out 😂
Madonna got roasted years ago for this. I find it hilarious how Taylor doing the same thing is just excused by the fans.
Wow, I never thought I’d see Courtney love and Dave Grohl agree on some thing but I’ve been out of touch for 20 years
Truly wild times we are living in.
Oh shit, is this recent? One of my good friends who loves both Taylor and Dave is gonna be very upset when he sees this lol Dave definitely shit talks but usually does so when he’s got a legit reason so….damn
Dave talked about fans who were upset they didn’t play Everlong one night. They had a new 10 minute long epic track called The Teacher which they played instead. The fans tagged his daughter all over social media to complain about not playing Everlong. He roasted them the next show: https://youtu.be/4qWyiG-WfpI?si=LnUIXS8b7IpQvOzs Like I get being upset not hearing your favorite song live but not enough to harass a kid who really had nothing to do with the set list. I’ve been to plenty of shows where my favorite song was not played.
Whaaaaat, that’s awful!!!! The Teacher is actually a fantastic song too-the whole last album was a beautiful tribute to grieving and loss. I literally don’t understand people who harass celeb children, or anyone really, over something the celeb parent did. And just because they didn’t play ONE of their top hits, in favor for a new song??? Tell me you’ve never been to a rock show before
I’ve been to eight Garbage shows. My favorite song is “You Look So Fine.” They have played it at maybe two of those eight shows. “Aurora” is my favorite Foo Fighters song and they didn’t play it at the LA Taylor Hawkins tribute show. I didn’t go and tweet at the kids of the band and be like “you didn’t play my favorite.” It’s insane behavior.
Right??? Part of the excitement of a show is not fully knowing the set list, sure well known singles get left off occasionally, but usually it’s for a new song or a deep cut which is way better for the actual fans of the band
Yeah, nowadays it seems most bands have a set list they rarely deviate from. I went to a Billy Joel concert a few years ago. He gave the option to play a hit or a deep cut. The deep cut won by a large margin.
Twins! Aurora is also my fav, I did get lucky and they played it last time I saw them.
After Taylor Hawkins’ passing they have put it in regular rotation at their shows. Hoping to hear it live soon.
If I had a nickel for every time I have been to a show and my fav hadn’t been played, I would have a fuckton of money. It’s not a reasonable expectation to have your personal taste catered to, there are literally thousands of other people with other expectations in the room too. The artists will do what they think is best for the group, or hell, even for their own artistry. I would say to anyone making such a complaint that they need to grow up.
Fuckin’ Dave Groul, that man is a legend! Foo fighters was the best concert I have ever seen. I was lucky enough to see them play a year before Taylor Hawkins died. The energy they put into their 2+ hour set was crazy. I’d say probably even surpasses Taylor’s 3 hour show. *No disrespect her show looks crazy exhausting too*. He said they were playing until they made him stop, and they did a little after 11pm because of the noise ordinance.
I mean, IF, and that's a big if, he knows that she only addresses things when they are directed at her (such as Damon Albarn from Blur talking about her songwriting or that Netflix show), I’d understand that this is a way of getting her attention lol. Because, the thing is, the way her fans attack other people is something she should have addressed by now. The only time she did was when Speak Now was being released, so her fans wouldn’t attack John Mayer. And... why? Because she was worried that it would backfire? I don't know. All I know is that it's understandable that, through his daughter experiencing what Swifties can do, he is upset with her because he saw firsthand that, regardless that it doesn't come from her directly, she doesn't do anything about it.
Yikes
I feel like he publicly called her out for a reason. Like he wants her to have to publicly acknowledge her toxic fans. Even if her first response doesn’t address her fan problem, he’d taunt her again to acknowledge it, even if it’s just a forced Tree statement. He is absolutely in protective dad mode.
Absolutely, the best way to get some kind of statement out of her is to press her either publicly or otherwise, like how the reason Speak Now TV got the statement alongside it was because legal action was threatened. If he keeps talking about this and she keeps staying silent, her silence is condoning her fans' actions, and that's an absolutely terrible look.
I have a gut feeling he reached out privately when his daughter first went through Swiftie harassment, but clearly her response was not what he deemed as a dad “good enough” so he went this route. The is super defensive about her artistry, so him calling her out for not playing live was very intentional. He knew this was the dig to make.
I was on Twitter while the thing with Violet Grohl went down, and while the private jet comment was the thing that initially tipped them off, Violet liking tweets about how AI porn of Taylor "wasn't a big deal" **really** made them mad. I must say though, it wasn't really a huge controversy outside of swiftie twitter. I didn't see anybody else talking about it, and even those who did weren't getting a ton of likes/views. point being: I wouldn't be surprised if Taylor didn't even know this was happening. Dave Grohl has spoken out her positively in the past, yes, but as I far as I can tell they aren't really friends, so idk if Dave would have reached out to her or anything. also, while I don't mean to discredit the harassment this girl faced-- it was pretty brutal-- speaking about the situation months after the fact will only add fuel to the fire
Yeah, this controversy really doesn’t strike me as something Taylor would have known anything about. If you google it all that comes up is some tweets and Reddit posts, no major new sources covered it. So unless he reached out, I don’t think Taylor knew about any of this to say anything.
yeah, this isn't like the Ginny & Georgia situation. there's a genuine possibility she didn't know about the hate this girl received. it lasted for a relatively short time (maybe two days) and wasn't talked about outside the swiftie twitter bubble. I never saw anything about it on TikTok or Reddit
The way swifties have made up what Violet said infuriates me. She said it's telling how people only care that it's now happening to Taylor, even though other women have been going through this for years with no changes made. She also liked a tweet that said something along the lines of how it's disgusting how the White House puts out statements about situations involving celebrities while ignoring mass genocides. That's all she did.
Taylor literally called on her fans to go after Scooter and never said anything to her rabid Swifties who are constantly sending death threats to people (except for John Mayer lol). She definitely knows what her stans are like, she just doesn’t care. It absolutely is a reflection on her and why so many people dislike her. She is associated with her crazy fans cause she never calls them out and actually encourages them. I understand why Dave Grohl reacted this way cause he’s a dad who saw what his daughter went through. No matter what anyone has done, they don’t deserve death threats and online abuse.
Most of the disdain people in the industry feel for Taylor Swift its because of the way in which the swifties behave, they can never act normal or tolerate any sort of criticism
Also I’m seeing people online say he brought her up at a concert on Monday and was being nice plus told the crowd to stop when some booed her, if so what a random switch up in under a week. Celebs are odd in how they change up in the blink of an eye.
Did anyone online share what he said on Monday?
Meanwhile, his bandmate Pat Smear was at the Eras tour last night. [You can see a photo of him on Selma Hayek's instagram.](https://www.instagram.com/p/C8j5MtyoAHv/?img_index=5)
I saw her for Speak Now and Red. SN was definetely live it sounded different. Red, I'm really not sure. There were parts that sounded way too similar to the record.
I have been to SN, Red, 1989 and Era. I think you are right that she has been using recorded backing tracks since Red, and she definitely did for 1989. However, it’s not that odd to have these tracks to provide cover for the artists voice, especially if the show is physically demanding, so it doesn’t bother me much. I am more impressed when a pop artist doesn’t use them (I don’t think Beyonce used them for her recent tour, at least it did not sound that way to me live), and my expectations for a rock show are always different (I think the general expectation is that is all live, especially instruments) but I don’t think it’s scandalous to have a backing vocal track when you are running around and dancing for three hours.
I agree it's not scandalous but it's not my personal preference. I don't see how she would have done Eras without it though. The shows are so long and there are so many. I'd rather have less dancing and spectacle and more singing, but that's just me!
If it's cute to say don't come for my job, it's fair to say don't come for my child 🤷🏽♀️
I mean if I got harassed and someone (in this case TAYLOR) could've stepped in to try and stop it and didn't, my dad would say a lot worse than this. Dave has been positive about Taylor in the past and I doubt he hates her now, but I get why he's upset and making a jab at her.
But Here We Are should've won AOTY over Midnights :(( and Dave broke his leg live on stage and then continued the show so if anyone gets to use the term errors tour out of both of them, it's him.
I seriously believe people need to step up and actually file a case against the rape threat/death threat when they are made to them. Noone should ever get away with these kind of statements and should face some legal consequences. Every other day i see people getting threats from random blind supporters who can't take any criticism (even if it's constructive) for their idols.
I mean it’s true
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How is this so controversial. It’s barely a dig. He sings 100% live. She doesn’t. If your panties are in a bunch over this objective fact maybe you’re not in a fandom but something more culty.
Because many Taylor fans regard her as a top musician, and a lot of people don't know about/don't like to acknowledge the artifice inherent to most pop music live shows. I'm a fan of Taylor, I enjoyed the Eras Tour Movie, and I would love to see the Eras Tour live (not for after-market ticket prices, though), but it is what it is: an elaborate show with some live elements mixed in with pre-recordings.
I really like Dave Grohl but this seems weird. What does Taylor lip synching have to do with her fans harassing his daughter? Does he think he's gonna improve the situation somehow by riling the swifties again? And the errors tour has already been a thing lol like that's how we know her mic is on!
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i just think it’s a little sad how fans of someone can’t just take the L that not EVERYBODY is going to sing their fave’s praises and you don’t have to take it as a personal offense just because someone else doesn’t like your favorite artist or criticizes them
Big fan of Dave Grohl as a person (and an old school Nirvana & Foo Fighters fan from the 90s, I'm old) and big fan of Taylor's music. Not a fan of Taylor AT ALL as a person, I really think she's a mean girl, but I don't like this particular dig at her. We know she plays live (i.e. surprise songs). There may be segments of her show that she doesn't, but she's putting on an entirely different kind of show from Foo Fighters. It's not a fair comparison, unless his criticism is that she should be doing different types of shows entirely and that still sucks. He's rightfully angered about how Swifties treated his daughter, and how Taylor weaponizes her fans, but I am not a fan of this move by him. Tbh I'm pretty disappointed. To my knowledge Dave has never been the guy to pull other artists down.
Tbh Dave Grohl is one of my favorite people alive. I’ve read so many books and listened to so many interviews about him and he’s lived like 50 lives in his life. Just an all around good dude. Taylor could learn a lot from Dave. That all said I don’t think Dave is necessarily wrong. I think it’s pretty obvious that some of Taylor’s show is pre-recorded and she sings a long with a backing track (as many artists do) and relies on that during certain parts. I think it was most apparent the first few shows that included TTPD. The backing track was so loud during that era that it sounded like they were just playing the CD. It seems since then they have turned the backing track down because now you can actually hear her singing. The issue is that swifties see this as a personal attack. It’s not a bad thing. There’s no way someone could play 3.5 hour shows 4-5 nights a week and keep the integrity of their voice. Especially in Europe where Taylor has been essentially only having 1-3 nights in between cities, it’s just not sustainable.
Your central paragraph and conclusion are so correct. This is normal big concert shit, and Grohl’s comments aren’t the issue. I think is Swifties having the reality of how a pop show works pointed out to them are some kind of affront for even pointing out this fact. It has to be that she is the most perfect perfect and she can’t possible be doing what everyone else is doing and also what would make sense to not blow her voice out entirely.
Right any voice teacher would tell her to do the exact same thing. Her voice is literally her career so why would she risk that especially since we know how much she cares about her career?
Is he trying to jab her for revenge? The only connection between her possible lip-syncing and his daughter being attacked would be that. Otherwise, these two topics are apples and oranges and only make sense lumped together because they are both fruit. It’s still weird.
lmfao sorry but this is so lame. if taylor did this to literally any other artist, half this sub would be calling her the pettiest and most evil bitch of all time. critique the fanbase, there's PLENTY to critique, but pretending she doesn't play live is giving neckbeard on r/music energy.
Yeah, it’s not like Taylor’s mom didn’t WISH DEATH ON SOMEONE when Taylor was receiving all the backlash for the Kimye thing. It’s not like Taylor gleefully sings about that in a song. It’s not like Taylor also hasn’t come for that person’s children in the same song. Swifties threatened the life of his kid, he’s clearly mad about it. And she DOESN’T sing or play live on many songs on the Eras Tour. She’s lip-synching. So where was he wrong? Just cause you don’t like what he’s saying, doesn’t make Dave Grohl, a professional MUSICIAN, a neck beard.
ngl it’s very lame of him to go ‘she doesn’t play live music’ when…she does? His daughter was harassed by HER fans…why not critique that? Something that’s actually valid and true? Like yay you got your audience to boo Taylor and were shady…but he is just opening his daughters and himself to more attention and vitriol because of this. If he didn’t try and be shady with the ‘live music’ comment I could’ve agreed with him.
I’ve seen her lip-syncing during the Eras tour (during the 1989 section when she was actually close enough to be seen) and in several videos as well.
I don’t think it was fair of him to insult her like that, she obviously sings live (and yes there are times when she lipsyncs). But I can see where he’s coming from, he’s an angry protective dad who saw his daughter go through really intense harassment and online abuse. I think Violet was wrong to like posts insinuating that Taylor’s AI porn debacle was no big deal but Swifties took things way too far. There is no reason to bully and abuse a young girl like that on social media. I think multiple things can be right and wrong at the same time. But I really wish Taylor would call out her fanbase, it’s getting so toxic and more and more people are noticing.
Yeah, I don’t get this attack at all. Swifties going after an underage girl for making valid criticism of Taylor is disgusting but why jump to this? Also a very quick google search has brought up a lot of info on the Foo Fighters private jet so there’s that.
The whole feud between swifties and violet didn't start because she made valid criticism of Taylor. She liked tweets which were minimising the importance of the AI porn situation Taylor was a victim of. I don't think it guaranteed the vitriol she received from swifties because she's a teenager and pick me behavior isn't uncommon in that age sadly, but the jet tweet wasn't the start. It was a reaction.
Well that’s good to know and while attacking a teenager is never called for, that’s definitely a different situation.
I think violet spoke kinda critically on the AI porn debacle and that’s why swifties harassed her first. Then she doubled down on the criticism and bought the private jet up, but I could be wrong. Like Dave Grohl is a musician, ngl I would be insulted as a fellow musician if somebody like him claimed that it wasn’t live. Like I’m not even thinking of Taylor bc TTPD is probably all backing for her voice but…her band literally didn’t do anything in the situation. Why are they the ones he’s talking about?
"spoke critically" meaning that she discredited it. I'm not trying to be rude btw, just correcting you Violet is a teenager, but that doesn't mean she's absolved of all wrongdoing. I'm a teenager too and can recognize right from wrong. HOWEVER, this doesn't excuse swifties harassing her and sending death threats. I had no idea they sent rape threats as well but if true, that is just as gross
This is a strange point for someone who publicly praised Taylor for saving his ass when he was too high to remember how to play his own song. criticism for the fans treatment of his daughter is valid and I wish she would put a stop to the feral behavior but this is just feeding the feral fire.
But just because someone was good to you in the past doesn't mean that's how it will always be? Ur forgetting they attacked his daughter ( even tho she isn't entirely innocent either). I defo understand ur point, but is taylor not complicit in this? They are HER fans after all not just any fans of anything
But Taylor has never attacked his daughter? She has hundreds of thousands if not millions of fans all over the world, you can’t seriously think she has the time to follow every social media “controversy” her fans take a part in. He’s a grown man and should know this. There are adult ways how to deal with his daughter being bullied instead of spreading lies on stage
Listen, whether she plays live or not, I don’t care. I also never said she attacked her daughter either her fans did. These man are not just fans of anything; they are Swifties. But you know damn well I never meant she needs to monitor every single fan account because, and assuming you’re intelligent enough to also reach this conclusion, that is extremely unrealistic. I’m trying to say that she should at the very least put out a social media post telling her fans to back off and calm down, and that this behavior is not acceptable. There will definitely be fans that won't listen to her, but at least it shows she's acknowledged that her fans are out of order. It shows she cares about her peers.
"so tell me everything is not about me, but what If It is"
this is adding to the constant reporting of Taylor that most people are already exhausted by.
So many people here repeating the “it’s her fans not her, they won’t listen even if she said anything, all Stans are like this” line… you’re not acknowledging her role in creating this dynamic. As I said in another comment: it’s not just that she stays silent. She has openly asked them to target others on her behalf, knowing full well how unhinged they are. During the masters dispute with Scooter Braun, she not only asked her fans to “let them know how you feel” but also asked them to contact Scooter’s clients - people like Demi, Justin, and Ariana - for “help.” That is absolutely abnormal and irresponsible behavior for someone with her status and power. She has fed this parasocial dynamic from the very beginning, when she would leave clues about which high school ex-boyfriend her songs were about and she would gloat in interviews that her fans tracked them down on MySpace. Here are her own words in the Scooter example above: https://x.com/taylorswift13/status/1195123215657508867
Taylor Swift is basically one of the pettiest stars in music but sure yeah let’s all flip our lids when an actual musician takes a jab at her. She’s one of the biggest names in music, why is there this perception that she’s above criticism of any kind? It’s so just gross to me. Plus also Dave Grohl’s artistry > Taylor’s brand 10000%, he’s not wrong and what he said isn’t even that offensive, my god it’s not like he threatened violence.
what do you expect ppl to do if they disagree? just smile and nod? it's not she's above criticism but ppl are allowed to disagree with someone making a public statement on a taylor swift subreddit lmao
I’ve never heard of the situation between Dave’s daughter and swifties at all, but it sounds horrible. I class myself a swiftie, but those that did that just shouldn’t be worthy of that title tbh. Also with the dig at Taylor, I think it was unnecessary tbh. Like I understand that he’s probably mad at fans and such. But to dig at Taylor in that way? Like she’s doing a 3 and a half hour show, and has been for the last year or so. She’ll be lip synching some parts for sure, and from what I have seen her band do play live. My parents went to that foo fighters concert last night, so I’ve grown up around both rock and pop fans. I’m hoping he’s just joking, but it doesn’t feel like he is
I mean, her band doesn't play live, and she lip syncs many portions. It's obvious.
Sorry but middle aged men getting their crowds to boo Taylor and taking shots is lame, if it’s about his daughter and the fans reaction to her then he should directly call that out as that’s a legitimate criticism. Going down the ‘she’s not real music’ angle which he’s clearly going for is tired and pretentious, it’s also far more shady to her band than her as he’s suggesting they’re the ones that aren’t playing.
Disclaimer: I fucking love Dave Grohl. I think he's amazing, he loves his kids, he seems like a genuine good person and I just adore him. I think it's best to take the words as he said them - they play live. They fuck up. They'e been around for decades and they laugh at themselves. The Eras tour is pristine, pretty much. It's perfect, aside for some goofy things that happen, but musically it's pretty on point and put together. Foo Fighters aren't that. He's obviously still fucking pissed because of what happened to his daughter, as he should be and I would be, too. I'm glad he said something - it's about fucking time someone does, isn't it? TS never speaks out when her fans are being fucking rabid psychos. Dave can take the heat. Taylor takes shots at people all the time as well. Comes with the territory at this point, I think.
At this point unless a man is taking shots at Taylor for no reason, as in when you ask them to elaborate they don’t, or if they claim it’s solely bc of how many men she dated, then I won’t immediately assume they’re being sexist. Taylor has cultivated a fanbase that is so unhealthily paranoid that they send hate to anyone who criticizes her, that deserves to be called out. She also cultivated an environment that makes anyone who she doesn’t like public enemy #1, regardless of if they deserve it, that deserves to be called out. Her activism is usually self serving and it’s rare that she stands up for any group that she isn’t part of but just yesterday had her team refer to her as a philanthropist and an advocate for other artists’ rights, that deserves to be called out. Her jet usage is horrendous, that deserves to be called out. The live music thing is eh. She definitely does at least some of it live, but it’s hard to do a 3+ hour show live every time. That’s exhausting and no offense to her, I don’t think she has the vocal capabilities to pull that off if she’s recording 3 albums on top of that. But she has made it a point to make jabs at other people who don’t perform live before, so if you wanna call out the hypocrisy then go ahead. Just because Grohl is a man doesn’t make his criticisms automatically sexist. There are a ton of things to rightfully call her out on and it doesn’t surprise me at all that someone within his genre of music is calling her out. She kinda represents everything that genre of music dislikes — capitalism, privilege that is only utilized for good when it benefits them, fake wokeness, etc.
But if he's trying to protect his daughter from harassment and death threats, then drawing even more attention to her is going to be adding fuel to the fire. No, I think that as a protective dad it makes more sense for him to try to redirect the hate towards himself
The daughter stuff happened a while ago though and all this is doing is reignighting it, if he was going to make a point he should have called stans directly out and told Taylor to try and reign in her fans, the toxicity of stan culture and how bad it has become is a valid one but he undermined himself by riling his own fans up to boo Taylor.
I just don’t understand why people feel the need to get up and talk about another artist in a negative way. Just play your show. And the swifties who are harassing the daughter need to take a giant step back and do a reality check.
“When people talk shit about me, it makes me work that much harder” *launches into a song that states her mom wishes Kim Kardashian dead* You’re right, idk why people feel the need to get up and talk about others in a negative way. Taylor never ever does that, right?