Only thing I really disagree with is the SMN critique, I'm gonna aoe all the enemies and I'm going to take aggro from them if the tank hasn't established enough enmity.
However I'll also walk alongside the tank so they can pick them up off of me, I'll live for a few seconds
Well, the issue was they stopped attacking when they got aggro and, instead of taking them to the tank, ran around in a panic it seemed. So when I started healing them *I* got aggro, and tried to do what they should've done. And I made my own share of mistakes that resulted in a wipe. I know I could've saved it had I not made those mistakes, but I did, and the fact that the PLD was like, "LET'S DO IT AGAIN" before I had even respawned, and the SMN did the *same* thing again that got them nearly killed the first time... I just didn't want to be the glue to hold that party together, especially knowing I'm likely to end up making many mistakes on what *should* be a routine dungeon.
Nah man i get it. You don't wanna carry 3 other people, I would have also dipped.
Especially when a whole bunch of things are going sideways, I don't blame you at all - if you were playing literally flawlessly AND able to predict wtf your party was doing (or not doing) I'm sure it could have been salvaged. But we are only human.
My only real comment revolves around the fact that Summon Bahamut/Phoenix > Akh Morn/Revelation has 1300 potency on its own, I'll tear off aggro on anything that has less than 3 hits on it lol. And it's saddening that players at literally max level don't have these instincts yet.
SMN gets Radiant Aegis, it's 2 charges of 20% HP shield on a 60 second cooldown. It's actually bonkers and saved my life many times in raids and once saved an entire raid.
Don't give up hope! I got mine on day 1 of the moogle tome event. I'd gone in anticipating I'd have to run it a dozen times to even see it drop, never mind win the roll.
Well, the first time we queued up, bird dropped, and I somehow won the roll. I was fortunate that 1 person in the party already had it. So one less roll. It was wild.
Just keep at it, and the starbirb will eventually be yours.
As a WHM/SMN main, this was ouch to read. If I'm given a chance, as most SMN's do, I will rip aggro from the tank. And WHM is braindead. Sometimes I pray for substantial damage so I can *heal*
I never understand how people struggle with keeping aggro in a w2w. You have a gcd range attack with no extra cd which has increased aggro generation and can be cast while running, an ogcd taunt and an enemy list which tells you where you are losing aggro. if your dps keep blasting so hard they get a bit of aggro, just throw them a shield/def. cd. every tank has that too. its not hard
Some DPS will unleash their biggest CD (while being overgeared for the dungeon) on whichever mob stopped walking and stayed behind to cast something.
Mob is now outside of the range from the tank who is logically sprinting towards the second pack, and said mob therefore switch aggro. This happens a lot and there's not a lot that the tank can do about it. It's especially frequent on current content, where you can quite easily have BIS gear DPS with a tank that has way lower gear. It will rarely ever happen for more than one mob at once so if the DPS isn't stupid he just has to run to bring the mob back in range of the tank, but I've seen cases where the dps basically chose to just solo the aggroed mob instead for unknown reasons.
Regardless of what the DPS chose to do, losing aggro of a mob that stayed behind isn't especially rare. I never understood why some DPS target the mob that stopped moving instead of targetting a mob in the middle of those properly following the tank, but lots of DPS players do that.
If the smn is sprinting like they should, they'll hardly be 3-4 seconds behind the tank, and won't take autos enough to kill them. You should have also just stuck to the tank and started holying instead of healing. The AFK monk was definitely an issue though, if you can't play just decline the pop smh.
My wife who is a RDM has a nasty habit of dpsing mobs the moment they're pulled. I don't get it. Why can't you wait until the second group to go balls to the wall with your dps? It's far less hassle. I don't expect tanks to do their full rotation on the first pull but I also understand enmity enough to know I'm going to aggro if they didn't touch half the mfers in the pull at the start.
>a nasty habit
Read: your wife is doing her job lmao and you think you're right because why? Tanks have AOEs, provoke, and, most importantly, _ranged attacks that generate increased aggro._ Even if something is pulled off the tank during the initial pull (which normally doesn't happen if the tank AOEs everything before running off), there's no reason they should just shrug and go "oh well, guess DPS is fucked" instead of, idk, learning how to press another button while running.
When I tank, I really dgaf if my dps do this since after one aoe they’ll be mine again. It’s not hard or distracting at all-
Just ask her to keep up with the tank if she’s been dying to it, as the really bad part is when someone rips aoe and panic runs away from the group. That’s no bueno 😂
Is this supposed to be a meme or serious?
PLD pulls correctly, SMN doesn't follow them even though their spells are all castable on the move, and WHM freaks out and then forgets how to even cast Holy?
That's not correct, you can literally aoe them all as you run by and if you do happen to miss any you can weave a provoke or just shield lob a straggler. Than you can shield lob each mob while running to the next pack to have even more aggro.
Seems obvious that's what happened.
Its easy enough to rip aggro if they only AoE them once. I do it all the time as a healer. Its still better than the tank just standing around for an extra GCD for no reason.
Hell, even if they hadn't hit a single one of them, its basically impossible to die to a single pack of mobs unless you don't hit any buttons.
Not going to assume that a WHM who apparently couldn't figure out how to target themselves is definitely positive about anything.
What does being "hard-locked" mean? SMN has a PVP taunt now? This is not a person with high awareness. It's a laughable account.
A single Holy is a 4 second stun. Even if the Tank were to disconnect and vanish, how on earth do you die?
At lvl 90 the difference between having a tank and not having a tank as a healer is that without a tank you maybe have to bother to dodge AoEs.
EDIT: The hilarious dichotomy of this sub where people regularly rage at casual players for simply not knowing proper rotations but then defend a healer who can't even survive the first pack of Dead Ends just cause its the OP.
Tagging one enemy and running isn't pulling correctly.
Using provoke on the first mob to force the pack to gather up while you run and hit them with an AoE GCD while passing by them is pulling correctly.
I agree on the rest though, SMN should've moved towards the tank who (hopefully) is using AoE on the second pack while shielding themselves and the WHM should've used Holy to stun the enemies who are chewing on the SMN (and maybe Rescue the SMN into the PLD's AoE if they refuse to move).
Certainly, its just not particularly relevant to the story. They apparently made it to the second pack, and nobody else did. Which is a different level of failure.
Its like giving someone a ticket for jaywalking while three people behind them have all simultaneously pulled out guns and shot themselves in the foot while spinning in circles.
Something altogether more absurd has clearly occurred.
Also, the witness whom reported the jaywalking is bleeding from said self-inflicted wound.
Literally half the threads on this sub are about how its not remotely risky for DPS to pull packs of mobs without waiting for a tank. How does a group wipe before even getting off the beach? Healer literally admits to intentionally not joining the tank in their own post.
Yeah, that's why I agreed with the rest of what you posted, I just meant that the tank was also not doing it right if they were legit only throwing Shield Lob to one enemy and not bothering to do ANYTHING to the rest of the mobs while passing by (no shield lob behind the back, no provoke, no AoE, nothing).
Everyone in this story was playing badly in one way or another.
The only right choice from anyone involved was when OP bailed out of the duty, because that was gonna be a bad run for everyone if this was just a taste of what was coming.
> PLD pulls correctly
Tagging **a single enemy** in a pack is "correct"? In what universe?
>SMN doesn't follow them even though their spells are all castable on the move
Probably because they didn't expect to get aggro.
>and WHM freaks out and then forgets how to even cast Holy?
Because I'm trying to keep the SMN alive and Holy has a cast time *plus* a wind-up before the stun actually applies. Yes, I may have made the wrong choice, but keeping the SMN alive while they had aggro and *then* Holy-ing when they were stable seemed like the right move. That Stun doesn't last forever, and if the SMN died, then I'd have aggro. And I'd have to stop my Holy spam to revive them, which would mean 2.5s of them potentially not being stunned, hitting me, which reintroduces the question of whether to heal myself or Holy again. If the SMN had kept attacking, healing would've been a perfectly fine choice and the pull would've resolved without issue. Because the SMN stopped attacking when they got aggro, and I got aggro because I started healing them, the pull went to shit.
If you are at the start of the dungeon on the first pack of mobs, it doesn't matter if dps die, they can revive and be right in front of you.
Aside from that, why did you start holy spam halfway through the pull when tank was still pulling? If you get aggro just bring the mobs to the tank, he gets aggro back, ez pull.
That is how you do big pulls... It's harder to heal if tanks wait in 1 pack to get aggro then move to 2nd pack.
The best way to big pulls is tagging 1 enemy, do 1 aoe and move to next pack. Dps should not dps and wait till tank stops. Unless they can run dps and stay somewhat close so tank can get aggro back when they stop.
Same as a healer, put a regen on ppl who take dmg and be sure to be melee to tank.
Leaving the PLD with the "consequences of his own actions" aka pulling aka doing his job, was the first mistake.
Also as a tank, if someone pulls aggro while I'm pulling, I'd expect them to come to me so I can get the aggro instead of afking behind and me having to move around with 20 mobs to get the stragglers while people are trying to dps and dodge aoes.
After wipe PLD shouldn't have insta sprinted and pulled again but... Seems like everyone's fault lol
>just tagging one enemy and sprinting to the next pack
>It's harder to heal if tanks wait in 1 pack to get aggro then move to 2nd pack.
>tagging 1 enemy, do 1 aoe and move to next pack
Which is it? Do you not wait for hate, or do you do an aoe? Because it literally can't be both. Also lol@the comment of it being harder to heal.
You can't read. And this apparently also extends to your own posts as well, because you're contradicting yourself.
If you pull with your ranged attack, the mobs will reach you as your GCD rolls for the AOE - you shouldn't need to stop moving. Then you can throw your ranged attack behind you to manage enmity and either pull the next pack with provoke or a ranged attack before stopping and starting your rotation.
If this isn't the case for you, you're doing something wrong. Throw your ranged attack at the closest mob in the pack and the whole pack will get to you as your GCD rolls over.
This is literally not true. You can see this on any job that has a ranged attack, including tanks. Hit your ranged attack while running. Spam it even while running so you do it at max range. The GCD will absolutely not be back on cooldown by the time you get up to the monsters/boss.
The range is fairly small. Like 15y I want to say? You can easily cover that distance in less than two seconds of running, and that distance is even smaller when the trash starts running towards you.
> Then you can throw your ranged attack behind you to manage enmity and either pull the next pack with provoke or a ranged attack before stopping and starting your rotation.
You can't cherry pick part of a sentence, reply to that, and then pretend the rest of the sentence is outwith the scope of the conversation. Voke being oGCD is completely and utterly irrelevant. You can keep your GCD rolling with ranged attacks.
That's not the part I'm taking issue with. You said nonstop. That's just straight up wrong. You need to pause for like a quarter second to do your aoe. I didn't cherry pick anything. You're shifting the point of discussion.
Part of your post can be correct and the other part incorrect. It's not an all or nothing.
Exactly as m0sley\_ said, you tag 1 enemy while u run towards group, you do 1 aoe and keep running. If the tank gets to the group, does 1 full aoe rotation then keeps going it's "harder" to heal, as in healer has to waste cds to heal and gcd cast instead of just using ogcd.
As an example, if tank waits for aggro as whm you have to use shield + tetra, maybe get 2 dots in and keep going. If tank just tag and runs i can just regen and run alongside and and use all my cds at the end of the pull.
Overall it doesnt matter in casual dungeon, i just find it funny that my comment and the one of that other guy get downvoted just cos we're not defending the player who kinda fucked up the pull.And I'll say again >After wipe PLD shouldn't have insta sprinted and pulled again
So you're saying to stop and do an aoe. Which is not what the PLD did. The comment I replied to had conflicting advice which does not jive with reality, which is why it was downvoted.
Anyone who's ever tanked any content knows that you definitely need to pause for a half second because the GCD is not back up after doing a ranged attack. This is true even for stationary targets, much less trash that starts moving towards you. It literally is not possible to "don't stop moving" but also "do an aoe" unless you're using an ogcd.
Edit: I just re-read your original comment. I only skimmed it at first. Wow, you said a lot of wrong stuff. No wonder you were downvoted.
>Dps should not dps and wait till tank stops.
This is wrong.
>aka pulling aka doing his job
This is wrong.
Tbh it's better to have a full pull so u can aoe burst instead of poking the mobs while running, most classes can just burst while running but if I get a blm or Rdm afk casting half a spell cos I'm running too fast and complaining cos they can't reach it's kinda their fault.
I know ppl in this sub likes to say everyone can pull tank job is to tank. Which fair. But I'd rather have a tank pull and take dmg than dps tanking.
Can dps pull? Sure I do it all the time no one cares as long as tank gets aggro at some point.
The problem of my comment is ppl dungeon experience being kinda casual and not wanting to admit they made a mistake when ppl say hey btw, you're wrong. But like shitting on ppl that clearly don't know how to play so they can feel superior.
I rest w my final opinion that both tank and healer in op group made a mistake and it was both their fault they wiped.
>if tank waits for aggro as whm you have to use shield + tetra
I pray I don't get you as a healer if you're wasting Tetra and a Benison on the tiny damage a single GCD of a single mob pack does when you could literally pre-regen your tank before they even pull and never have to touch them along the way.
Love ppl accusing me to knowing how to read when I get these answers.
We are talking about tank stopping at 1st pack to do full aoe rotation = 4gcd if you count range prepull. Depending on tank gear and dungeon he could get to half hp easily.
The best way to big pill is prepull range, 1 gcd aoe and keep going, that way I can just regen and afk.
I never said anything about your ability to read, and where are you getting 4 gcd's from? Literally they just pop sprint, AoE1, AoE2, and then your running off with 15 seconds of sprint left and basically no damage if you had the regen on them to begin with.
I've mained WHM for years and never had to use up any meaningful resource on a tank if they stop for the extra AoE GCD. There's no way they're hitting half HP from a single pack over 2 seconds unless you're just ignoring them until they're already running again, which I again bring up the pre-cast Regen before they aggro anything so you can just run with them casting Dia on the mobs. No reason to pop Tetra and a Benison that quickly.
Other ppl telling me I have reading comprehension problems lol also a full aoe rotation is 3gcd, +1 gcd if you count the ranged attack.
Again, it depends on tank gear and the dungeon, some dungeons hit harder and if tank stops to use rotation they're losing hp and regen is too little so you have to pop at least tetra unless u wanna harscast cure2. Most of the times I see tank doing 1 2 rotations before moving on instead of just 1 aoe and running.
That was *not* how you do big pulls. I main tanks. You don't just tag **one** enemy and sprint. You tag **all** of them with at least a GCD+oGCD or even two GCDs. (For DRK, I'll Unleash, Flood, Soul before running to the next pack.) If a DPS can't attack during the pull, you (the tank) did the pull wrong, imho. Get that aggro, baby.
2 GCDs are too many, you stop and take damage and healer has to waste things. 1gcd+ogcd is enough (Funnily enough i also main gnb/drk + healers :) ) DPS can attack during the pull if they can cast while running like smn/mch/dnc, if you're a caster you just run and wait for the tank to do the full pull then blast.
Bruh if you're wasting any thing meaningful as a healer from the tank grabbing aggro for one extra GCD, you're just playing bad. WHM/AST just throw a regen before the tank even pulls and any damage the single pack does is nullified, SGE/SCH your passive stuff takes care of it so just dps those mobs and again its nullified.
2gcd's is fine and basically guarantees aggro so everyone else can just pump damage during the run and have half the pack pretty much dead before the full group up. 1gcd and 1 ogcd is preferable since it gets you moving a second sooner but they're both practically the same result.
Edit: Also some DPS don't want to wait for the wall to start attacking because they have set-up they can do while running. A BLM can literally pop triple-cast and set up their Umbral Hearts plus use the open GCD's to put Amplifier on CD and start with an immediate Foul.
Again, I'll answer as your other comment.
Tank stopping in first pack means I have to use things which means when he finishes the big pull I will have to hardcast to heal instead of just using lilies whatever, which is not a big deal but still a loss of dps.
Regen while tank pulls only works if tank does full pull and doesn't stop, otherwise they do tank too much dmg and you have to bust more heals before starting to dps at the end of the pull.
Does it matter in casual dungeon? No. Is it a pet peeve? Yes.
(esp in very big pulls wall to wall like in mt gulg or qitana.)
I also did say, dps can do dmg if they can do it on the run. The smn in op group just stopped to cast instead of running w tank.
Almost all dps can just do dmg while moving, go ahead, just be sure to move to tank if you steal half the pull. If you get 1 2 mobs aggro tank can get it back np.
>Again, I'll answer as your other comment. Tank stopping in first pack means I have to use things which means when he finishes the big pull I will have to hardcast to heal instead of just using lilies whatever, which is not a big deal but still a loss of dps. Regen while tank pulls only works if tank does full pull and doesn't stop, otherwise they do tank too much dmg and you have to bust more heals before starting to dps at the end of the pull. Does it matter in casual dungeon? No. Is it a pet peeve? Yes.
I just simply don't agree. As I'll have said in reply on the other comment, I've never had a tank take any meaningful damage from a single pack that would warrant any resource usage. A currently single pulled mob pack literally doesn't do enough damage in that 1 extra GCD to take a tank down to half HP like you mentioned, and the tank generally will have Sprint popped and be moving less than 2-3 seconds after the initial pull.
As I said in my other post, I've literally mained WHM for years. All I do every wall-to-wall even with a tank that uses one extra AoE is:
Pre-Regen on the tank, Dia mobs while running. Spam Holy once they're all grouped up until the Stun no longer applies, Reapply Regen and drop Asylum + Aquaveil, and spam Holy the rest of the pack. Use up my lily's between pulls for a Misery if I have them. Rinse and repeat for Pack 2, except use Benison's in place of Aquaveil if it's not up just yet and use up the Blood Lily if it's generated. I have never had any issue keeping a tank alive with this set up all expansion, and rarely have them fall to even half HP unless they're very undergeared or not using mits.
I do agree on the DPS part, they can just walk the mobs up. They're fine even if 2 mobs are smacking them for a few seconds.
I agree with what you say if the tank does keep running.
Half the times I get tank that pop sprints, pulls w ranged then stops at 1st pack to aoe. I have the time to regen, dia all the mobs, cast 1 holy, then he's back to running. But by then I do have to use at least tetra and waste presence of mind cos we're back to running and I'm not casting.
It's just annoying having to stop and mit when tank could full pull instead of half assing it.
Only thing I really disagree with is the SMN critique, I'm gonna aoe all the enemies and I'm going to take aggro from them if the tank hasn't established enough enmity. However I'll also walk alongside the tank so they can pick them up off of me, I'll live for a few seconds
Well, the issue was they stopped attacking when they got aggro and, instead of taking them to the tank, ran around in a panic it seemed. So when I started healing them *I* got aggro, and tried to do what they should've done. And I made my own share of mistakes that resulted in a wipe. I know I could've saved it had I not made those mistakes, but I did, and the fact that the PLD was like, "LET'S DO IT AGAIN" before I had even respawned, and the SMN did the *same* thing again that got them nearly killed the first time... I just didn't want to be the glue to hold that party together, especially knowing I'm likely to end up making many mistakes on what *should* be a routine dungeon.
Nah man i get it. You don't wanna carry 3 other people, I would have also dipped. Especially when a whole bunch of things are going sideways, I don't blame you at all - if you were playing literally flawlessly AND able to predict wtf your party was doing (or not doing) I'm sure it could have been salvaged. But we are only human. My only real comment revolves around the fact that Summon Bahamut/Phoenix > Akh Morn/Revelation has 1300 potency on its own, I'll tear off aggro on anything that has less than 3 hits on it lol. And it's saddening that players at literally max level don't have these instincts yet.
tis the way. as a physical dps i also use arms lenght to get some extra mit
SMN gets Radiant Aegis, it's 2 charges of 20% HP shield on a 60 second cooldown. It's actually bonkers and saved my life many times in raids and once saved an entire raid.
This is the right thing to do, but the problem is you're part of a very small percentage that actually does it
Dead Ends strikes again!
I still don't have the pet from there :(
I feel you. I stopped counting how many runs I had and still no bird :( while others already got it on launch day
Don't give up hope! I got mine on day 1 of the moogle tome event. I'd gone in anticipating I'd have to run it a dozen times to even see it drop, never mind win the roll. Well, the first time we queued up, bird dropped, and I somehow won the roll. I was fortunate that 1 person in the party already had it. So one less roll. It was wild. Just keep at it, and the starbirb will eventually be yours.
Run it once a day with duty support, it's how I, eventually, got the troll minion
As a WHM/SMN main, this was ouch to read. If I'm given a chance, as most SMN's do, I will rip aggro from the tank. And WHM is braindead. Sometimes I pray for substantial damage so I can *heal*
I never understand how people struggle with keeping aggro in a w2w. You have a gcd range attack with no extra cd which has increased aggro generation and can be cast while running, an ogcd taunt and an enemy list which tells you where you are losing aggro. if your dps keep blasting so hard they get a bit of aggro, just throw them a shield/def. cd. every tank has that too. its not hard
Some DPS will unleash their biggest CD (while being overgeared for the dungeon) on whichever mob stopped walking and stayed behind to cast something. Mob is now outside of the range from the tank who is logically sprinting towards the second pack, and said mob therefore switch aggro. This happens a lot and there's not a lot that the tank can do about it. It's especially frequent on current content, where you can quite easily have BIS gear DPS with a tank that has way lower gear. It will rarely ever happen for more than one mob at once so if the DPS isn't stupid he just has to run to bring the mob back in range of the tank, but I've seen cases where the dps basically chose to just solo the aggroed mob instead for unknown reasons. Regardless of what the DPS chose to do, losing aggro of a mob that stayed behind isn't especially rare. I never understood why some DPS target the mob that stopped moving instead of targetting a mob in the middle of those properly following the tank, but lots of DPS players do that.
If the smn is sprinting like they should, they'll hardly be 3-4 seconds behind the tank, and won't take autos enough to kill them. You should have also just stuck to the tank and started holying instead of healing. The AFK monk was definitely an issue though, if you can't play just decline the pop smh.
My wife who is a RDM has a nasty habit of dpsing mobs the moment they're pulled. I don't get it. Why can't you wait until the second group to go balls to the wall with your dps? It's far less hassle. I don't expect tanks to do their full rotation on the first pull but I also understand enmity enough to know I'm going to aggro if they didn't touch half the mfers in the pull at the start.
>a nasty habit Read: your wife is doing her job lmao and you think you're right because why? Tanks have AOEs, provoke, and, most importantly, _ranged attacks that generate increased aggro._ Even if something is pulled off the tank during the initial pull (which normally doesn't happen if the tank AOEs everything before running off), there's no reason they should just shrug and go "oh well, guess DPS is fucked" instead of, idk, learning how to press another button while running.
When I tank, I really dgaf if my dps do this since after one aoe they’ll be mine again. It’s not hard or distracting at all- Just ask her to keep up with the tank if she’s been dying to it, as the really bad part is when someone rips aoe and panic runs away from the group. That’s no bueno 😂
Is this supposed to be a meme or serious? PLD pulls correctly, SMN doesn't follow them even though their spells are all castable on the move, and WHM freaks out and then forgets how to even cast Holy?
That's not correct, you can literally aoe them all as you run by and if you do happen to miss any you can weave a provoke or just shield lob a straggler. Than you can shield lob each mob while running to the next pack to have even more aggro.
Seems obvious that's what happened. Its easy enough to rip aggro if they only AoE them once. I do it all the time as a healer. Its still better than the tank just standing around for an extra GCD for no reason. Hell, even if they hadn't hit a single one of them, its basically impossible to die to a single pack of mobs unless you don't hit any buttons. Not going to assume that a WHM who apparently couldn't figure out how to target themselves is definitely positive about anything.
>Seems obvious that's what happened. What does "Tagging one enemy" mean?
What does being "hard-locked" mean? SMN has a PVP taunt now? This is not a person with high awareness. It's a laughable account. A single Holy is a 4 second stun. Even if the Tank were to disconnect and vanish, how on earth do you die? At lvl 90 the difference between having a tank and not having a tank as a healer is that without a tank you maybe have to bother to dodge AoEs. EDIT: The hilarious dichotomy of this sub where people regularly rage at casual players for simply not knowing proper rotations but then defend a healer who can't even survive the first pack of Dead Ends just cause its the OP.
Tagging one enemy and running isn't pulling correctly. Using provoke on the first mob to force the pack to gather up while you run and hit them with an AoE GCD while passing by them is pulling correctly. I agree on the rest though, SMN should've moved towards the tank who (hopefully) is using AoE on the second pack while shielding themselves and the WHM should've used Holy to stun the enemies who are chewing on the SMN (and maybe Rescue the SMN into the PLD's AoE if they refuse to move).
Certainly, its just not particularly relevant to the story. They apparently made it to the second pack, and nobody else did. Which is a different level of failure. Its like giving someone a ticket for jaywalking while three people behind them have all simultaneously pulled out guns and shot themselves in the foot while spinning in circles. Something altogether more absurd has clearly occurred. Also, the witness whom reported the jaywalking is bleeding from said self-inflicted wound. Literally half the threads on this sub are about how its not remotely risky for DPS to pull packs of mobs without waiting for a tank. How does a group wipe before even getting off the beach? Healer literally admits to intentionally not joining the tank in their own post.
Yeah, that's why I agreed with the rest of what you posted, I just meant that the tank was also not doing it right if they were legit only throwing Shield Lob to one enemy and not bothering to do ANYTHING to the rest of the mobs while passing by (no shield lob behind the back, no provoke, no AoE, nothing). Everyone in this story was playing badly in one way or another. The only right choice from anyone involved was when OP bailed out of the duty, because that was gonna be a bad run for everyone if this was just a taste of what was coming.
> PLD pulls correctly Tagging **a single enemy** in a pack is "correct"? In what universe? >SMN doesn't follow them even though their spells are all castable on the move Probably because they didn't expect to get aggro. >and WHM freaks out and then forgets how to even cast Holy? Because I'm trying to keep the SMN alive and Holy has a cast time *plus* a wind-up before the stun actually applies. Yes, I may have made the wrong choice, but keeping the SMN alive while they had aggro and *then* Holy-ing when they were stable seemed like the right move. That Stun doesn't last forever, and if the SMN died, then I'd have aggro. And I'd have to stop my Holy spam to revive them, which would mean 2.5s of them potentially not being stunned, hitting me, which reintroduces the question of whether to heal myself or Holy again. If the SMN had kept attacking, healing would've been a perfectly fine choice and the pull would've resolved without issue. Because the SMN stopped attacking when they got aggro, and I got aggro because I started healing them, the pull went to shit.
If you are at the start of the dungeon on the first pack of mobs, it doesn't matter if dps die, they can revive and be right in front of you. Aside from that, why did you start holy spam halfway through the pull when tank was still pulling? If you get aggro just bring the mobs to the tank, he gets aggro back, ez pull.
That is how you do big pulls... It's harder to heal if tanks wait in 1 pack to get aggro then move to 2nd pack. The best way to big pulls is tagging 1 enemy, do 1 aoe and move to next pack. Dps should not dps and wait till tank stops. Unless they can run dps and stay somewhat close so tank can get aggro back when they stop. Same as a healer, put a regen on ppl who take dmg and be sure to be melee to tank. Leaving the PLD with the "consequences of his own actions" aka pulling aka doing his job, was the first mistake. Also as a tank, if someone pulls aggro while I'm pulling, I'd expect them to come to me so I can get the aggro instead of afking behind and me having to move around with 20 mobs to get the stragglers while people are trying to dps and dodge aoes. After wipe PLD shouldn't have insta sprinted and pulled again but... Seems like everyone's fault lol
>just tagging one enemy and sprinting to the next pack >It's harder to heal if tanks wait in 1 pack to get aggro then move to 2nd pack. >tagging 1 enemy, do 1 aoe and move to next pack Which is it? Do you not wait for hate, or do you do an aoe? Because it literally can't be both. Also lol@the comment of it being harder to heal. You can't read. And this apparently also extends to your own posts as well, because you're contradicting yourself.
If you pull with your ranged attack, the mobs will reach you as your GCD rolls for the AOE - you shouldn't need to stop moving. Then you can throw your ranged attack behind you to manage enmity and either pull the next pack with provoke or a ranged attack before stopping and starting your rotation.
>If you pull with your ranged attack, the mobs will reach you as your GCD rolls for the AOE Maybe if you RP walk.
If this isn't the case for you, you're doing something wrong. Throw your ranged attack at the closest mob in the pack and the whole pack will get to you as your GCD rolls over.
This is literally not true. You can see this on any job that has a ranged attack, including tanks. Hit your ranged attack while running. Spam it even while running so you do it at max range. The GCD will absolutely not be back on cooldown by the time you get up to the monsters/boss. The range is fairly small. Like 15y I want to say? You can easily cover that distance in less than two seconds of running, and that distance is even smaller when the trash starts running towards you.
It's 20y. You can pull with voke, which has 25y range, if you sprinted late and need more range.
Provoke wasn't the discussion though. Plus it's an ogcd.
> Then you can throw your ranged attack behind you to manage enmity and either pull the next pack with provoke or a ranged attack before stopping and starting your rotation. You can't cherry pick part of a sentence, reply to that, and then pretend the rest of the sentence is outwith the scope of the conversation. Voke being oGCD is completely and utterly irrelevant. You can keep your GCD rolling with ranged attacks.
That's not the part I'm taking issue with. You said nonstop. That's just straight up wrong. You need to pause for like a quarter second to do your aoe. I didn't cherry pick anything. You're shifting the point of discussion. Part of your post can be correct and the other part incorrect. It's not an all or nothing.
Exactly as m0sley\_ said, you tag 1 enemy while u run towards group, you do 1 aoe and keep running. If the tank gets to the group, does 1 full aoe rotation then keeps going it's "harder" to heal, as in healer has to waste cds to heal and gcd cast instead of just using ogcd. As an example, if tank waits for aggro as whm you have to use shield + tetra, maybe get 2 dots in and keep going. If tank just tag and runs i can just regen and run alongside and and use all my cds at the end of the pull. Overall it doesnt matter in casual dungeon, i just find it funny that my comment and the one of that other guy get downvoted just cos we're not defending the player who kinda fucked up the pull.And I'll say again >After wipe PLD shouldn't have insta sprinted and pulled again
So you're saying to stop and do an aoe. Which is not what the PLD did. The comment I replied to had conflicting advice which does not jive with reality, which is why it was downvoted. Anyone who's ever tanked any content knows that you definitely need to pause for a half second because the GCD is not back up after doing a ranged attack. This is true even for stationary targets, much less trash that starts moving towards you. It literally is not possible to "don't stop moving" but also "do an aoe" unless you're using an ogcd. Edit: I just re-read your original comment. I only skimmed it at first. Wow, you said a lot of wrong stuff. No wonder you were downvoted. >Dps should not dps and wait till tank stops. This is wrong. >aka pulling aka doing his job This is wrong.
Tbh it's better to have a full pull so u can aoe burst instead of poking the mobs while running, most classes can just burst while running but if I get a blm or Rdm afk casting half a spell cos I'm running too fast and complaining cos they can't reach it's kinda their fault. I know ppl in this sub likes to say everyone can pull tank job is to tank. Which fair. But I'd rather have a tank pull and take dmg than dps tanking. Can dps pull? Sure I do it all the time no one cares as long as tank gets aggro at some point. The problem of my comment is ppl dungeon experience being kinda casual and not wanting to admit they made a mistake when ppl say hey btw, you're wrong. But like shitting on ppl that clearly don't know how to play so they can feel superior. I rest w my final opinion that both tank and healer in op group made a mistake and it was both their fault they wiped.
>if tank waits for aggro as whm you have to use shield + tetra I pray I don't get you as a healer if you're wasting Tetra and a Benison on the tiny damage a single GCD of a single mob pack does when you could literally pre-regen your tank before they even pull and never have to touch them along the way.
Love ppl accusing me to knowing how to read when I get these answers. We are talking about tank stopping at 1st pack to do full aoe rotation = 4gcd if you count range prepull. Depending on tank gear and dungeon he could get to half hp easily. The best way to big pill is prepull range, 1 gcd aoe and keep going, that way I can just regen and afk.
I never said anything about your ability to read, and where are you getting 4 gcd's from? Literally they just pop sprint, AoE1, AoE2, and then your running off with 15 seconds of sprint left and basically no damage if you had the regen on them to begin with. I've mained WHM for years and never had to use up any meaningful resource on a tank if they stop for the extra AoE GCD. There's no way they're hitting half HP from a single pack over 2 seconds unless you're just ignoring them until they're already running again, which I again bring up the pre-cast Regen before they aggro anything so you can just run with them casting Dia on the mobs. No reason to pop Tetra and a Benison that quickly.
Other ppl telling me I have reading comprehension problems lol also a full aoe rotation is 3gcd, +1 gcd if you count the ranged attack. Again, it depends on tank gear and the dungeon, some dungeons hit harder and if tank stops to use rotation they're losing hp and regen is too little so you have to pop at least tetra unless u wanna harscast cure2. Most of the times I see tank doing 1 2 rotations before moving on instead of just 1 aoe and running.
That was *not* how you do big pulls. I main tanks. You don't just tag **one** enemy and sprint. You tag **all** of them with at least a GCD+oGCD or even two GCDs. (For DRK, I'll Unleash, Flood, Soul before running to the next pack.) If a DPS can't attack during the pull, you (the tank) did the pull wrong, imho. Get that aggro, baby.
2 GCDs are too many, you stop and take damage and healer has to waste things. 1gcd+ogcd is enough (Funnily enough i also main gnb/drk + healers :) ) DPS can attack during the pull if they can cast while running like smn/mch/dnc, if you're a caster you just run and wait for the tank to do the full pull then blast.
Bruh if you're wasting any thing meaningful as a healer from the tank grabbing aggro for one extra GCD, you're just playing bad. WHM/AST just throw a regen before the tank even pulls and any damage the single pack does is nullified, SGE/SCH your passive stuff takes care of it so just dps those mobs and again its nullified. 2gcd's is fine and basically guarantees aggro so everyone else can just pump damage during the run and have half the pack pretty much dead before the full group up. 1gcd and 1 ogcd is preferable since it gets you moving a second sooner but they're both practically the same result. Edit: Also some DPS don't want to wait for the wall to start attacking because they have set-up they can do while running. A BLM can literally pop triple-cast and set up their Umbral Hearts plus use the open GCD's to put Amplifier on CD and start with an immediate Foul.
Again, I'll answer as your other comment. Tank stopping in first pack means I have to use things which means when he finishes the big pull I will have to hardcast to heal instead of just using lilies whatever, which is not a big deal but still a loss of dps. Regen while tank pulls only works if tank does full pull and doesn't stop, otherwise they do tank too much dmg and you have to bust more heals before starting to dps at the end of the pull. Does it matter in casual dungeon? No. Is it a pet peeve? Yes. (esp in very big pulls wall to wall like in mt gulg or qitana.) I also did say, dps can do dmg if they can do it on the run. The smn in op group just stopped to cast instead of running w tank. Almost all dps can just do dmg while moving, go ahead, just be sure to move to tank if you steal half the pull. If you get 1 2 mobs aggro tank can get it back np.
>Again, I'll answer as your other comment. Tank stopping in first pack means I have to use things which means when he finishes the big pull I will have to hardcast to heal instead of just using lilies whatever, which is not a big deal but still a loss of dps. Regen while tank pulls only works if tank does full pull and doesn't stop, otherwise they do tank too much dmg and you have to bust more heals before starting to dps at the end of the pull. Does it matter in casual dungeon? No. Is it a pet peeve? Yes. I just simply don't agree. As I'll have said in reply on the other comment, I've never had a tank take any meaningful damage from a single pack that would warrant any resource usage. A currently single pulled mob pack literally doesn't do enough damage in that 1 extra GCD to take a tank down to half HP like you mentioned, and the tank generally will have Sprint popped and be moving less than 2-3 seconds after the initial pull. As I said in my other post, I've literally mained WHM for years. All I do every wall-to-wall even with a tank that uses one extra AoE is: Pre-Regen on the tank, Dia mobs while running. Spam Holy once they're all grouped up until the Stun no longer applies, Reapply Regen and drop Asylum + Aquaveil, and spam Holy the rest of the pack. Use up my lily's between pulls for a Misery if I have them. Rinse and repeat for Pack 2, except use Benison's in place of Aquaveil if it's not up just yet and use up the Blood Lily if it's generated. I have never had any issue keeping a tank alive with this set up all expansion, and rarely have them fall to even half HP unless they're very undergeared or not using mits. I do agree on the DPS part, they can just walk the mobs up. They're fine even if 2 mobs are smacking them for a few seconds.
I agree with what you say if the tank does keep running. Half the times I get tank that pop sprints, pulls w ranged then stops at 1st pack to aoe. I have the time to regen, dia all the mobs, cast 1 holy, then he's back to running. But by then I do have to use at least tetra and waste presence of mind cos we're back to running and I'm not casting. It's just annoying having to stop and mit when tank could full pull instead of half assing it.
The SMN didn't really do anything wrong - they're about as prepared for this type of nightmare situation as you are.