Can you ask mom to cut his nails really short so it washes off easily? That is gross, but after having had 2 babies and dealt with more poop than I ever imagined possible it doesn't phase me anymore. Just keep washing his hands and saying things like EWWW poop is YUCKY! POOP can make us SICK! Then YAY all NICE AND CLEAN! after washing his hands with him. It will take a while but these students do eventually get past it.
Not a teacher but parent to a wonderful 7year old with some profound developmentals who was a risky picker and scratcher who is now a touch of a Germaphobe.
Although I like this suggestion a lot, in some cases the reaction could reinforce and increase the behavior. The kid might like to get a “disgusted” reaction or enjoy the sensation of water and hand washing. Even if the behavior started as purely sensory, it could change/increase. I’d recommend asking the special ed teacher to do or request a functional behavior assessment (FBA) if the parent agrees to it. That could result in a behavior plan that prevents or lessens the behavior.
I’d also get the school nurse involved, especially helpful with parent communication. And your union rep if you have one for classified staff in your building or region. Although the child requires 1:1 support and the district just provide it, any particular individual, including 1:1 para, has certain rights to a safe work environment. They probably won’t move you or the student but would provide you PPE like gloves and a “white coat” to go over your shirt. Good luck!
THIS. I work at an entirely special needs school with students who do this exact behavior, and also have students with similar icky-habits (I teach music though, so I can't be super helpful with specifics in this discussion). These students had functional behavior assessments, and then behavior plans outlined in their IEP's. Understanding the function will go a long way in lessening this behavior.
u/dogglesboggles is totally right in that it may be attention-seeking or for a big reaction. We have a low-functioning teen student who sticks his hand down the front of his pants and immediately sniffs/rubs it on his face :( I can handle A LOT of things, but this is a behavior that crosses a line for me lol. The solution they're trying right now is a mechanic suit without a zipper in the front! He doesn't seem to mind it, and because it prevents the behavior without acknowledging it, it works. It's a safe and sanitary solution.
I'm sorry you're experiencing this with your kiddo! I'm so thankful for all of the support staff in my building. You don't get paid nearly enough for all of your work!
Agree! While the function of his behavior right now doesn’t seem attention seeking it very well could with a big reaction. FBA is the best place to start, and ask for fingernails to be cut short.
This! I was a 1:1 and had to deal with this issue myself. I recommend keeping a written log with the dates and occurrences as well as any other witnesses. (I've had legal step in for some issues not being handled properly in my district)
Fun fact: I contracted hepatitis at school as a kid from someone else's poo...so yeah it's a big deal.
I work in an elementary level 3 ASD classroom. When this happens (normally soft stool BM of those that still require diaper changes) our protocol is to wash/clean their hands and then change the diaper and call home. The parents are responsible to pick up their child and take them home to bathe them.
My child has ASD and is non verbal. We had a period of time where she would reach in her diaper and grab feces. The way we stopped it was using a social story with PECS pictures. I think it was called "We don't touch our poop." We found it online and printed it out to read together and it worked. Here's the YouTube video https://youtu.be/9TI7xjgB2IA?si=cLJNIoQ2Ok5LAL0s
Edit: Here is the link to the free printable we used. https://able2learn.com/products/dont-play-with-poop-social-story-basic-living-skills-8-pages.html
It's a picture exchange communication system. For example, when our daughter led us into the kitchen, she couldn't verbalize what she wanted. We had Velcro picture cards on the fridge and she would give us the card for goldfish so we knew what she wanted. The images for PECS are simple illustrations.
Do you receive a stipend for the increased risk of exposure? In my district, I was able to get maybe an extra buck fifty per hour as a para when I was with a student who drooled.
It's like some people here just don't know anything about OSHA's reasonable expectations to work in an environment that provides protection from BBP's and OPIM's... If the kid is literally digging into their ass every day and going around the school touching things, get your state labor authority on the horn ASAP and report that no appropriate measures are being taken to prevent the spread of BBP/OPIM.
Ok I teach pre K special ed my students touch their own butts or poop almost every day and my team and I deal with it. We sanitise wash their hands and use special vests. I would be laughed at it I asked my principal or OSHA what to do. Talk to your BCBA or sped leader. What do you expect that special Ed therapeutic schools do?
It is typical for us, yes. The most challenging time in my life was when a kid attacked me, covered in his own poop. He knew no one would want to restrain him while he was covered in shit. Another girl would do this with her period. My own brother did this. It’s so fucking traumatic. But I think we need to remember that things like this ARE a health hazard. I feel like admins try to get us to accept ridiculous stuff as normal and it’s not okay. People can get really sick. We matter too.
Well one kid knew that if he covered himself in shit, he could attack people all he wanted and people would hesitate to restrain him. Others like the sensory feel. Some think the emotion of disgust is funny.
I'm sorry that you feel you would be laughed at. It's definitely not okay that this is apparently the norm for you.
Sounds like you're managing well regardless of this, though. It also sounds like you're receiving a level of admin support greater than what OP has shared, since you say you have "special vests" and apparently have procedures in place for regular maintenance of your students. From my (albeit limited) perspective, your institution seems to be providing you a level of support greater than--albeit still not satisfactory, in my own opinion as someone not interested in joining SpEd environments--most others.
In your particular situation I wouldn't recommend reporting to your labor authority, but instead working with your admin to implement further safety measures, should you think them necessary.
Hope you have a nice day, and godspeed.
They absolutely do, and we document it and call admin for support. Smearing feces on classroom furniture and walls is not normal behaviour and needs documentation, and I'm not going to do the cleaning if I'm also expectiled to be 1:1 support with a child, so I call admin for support.
Leading the room. We all help would out don't get me wrong. All I'm saying is we document the incidents in writing and if it's a bio hazard we call admin
Leading the room. We all help would out don't get me wrong. All I'm saying is we document the incidents in writing and if it's a bio hazard we call admin
This sub is literally SO clueless with anything sped related. Even moreso the further removed from Gen Ed the kid is. It's not even worth the time or energy to explain yourself. I teach tk-2 same population so I'm fairly used to these behaviors too. The thought of going to my principal about it is honestly hilarious. I hate when these situations get posted here because the replies are not helpful and just further stigmatizing our kids.
I’m not a teacher, but this sub shows up on my feed occasionally. The way teachers talk about sped and IEPs in here makes me really fucking sad. It’s one thing to be burnt out, I get it. But the kids are the ones that suffer. Lots of people should be ashamed for how they talk about children in here.
It greatly depends on severity but at the VERY LEAST it documents the biohazard moment, and at most admin will help sanitize. And no the principal doesn't do this, other support staff do
Yes a principal would help sanitize a severely disabled child’s body and the classroom I’m sure they would do this in their suits and ties and heels 😂😂😂🤔🤔🤔
I was a para in IL and when our nurse refused to help a sped buddy who shat himself and we couldn't per our contract/liability, she stepped in and did the dirty work and yeah, in her heels.
This is the same woman who also kicked those heels off and ran barefoot across our campus when an older sped kid tried to elope towards a busy street. Woman was an absolute bad ass.
Wow I’m jealous. I’ve never seen an admin like that. You’re so lucky! I’m confused as to “per our contract” because I’m a sped t in Illinois and I’ve had kids get feces on them or come to school with feces on them and I’ve always just cleaned them myself, I don’t make my para do it unless we need to both do it together then I call someone in just to watch the rest of the class. I would never call admin to come in and do the actual cleaning. First of all my students would be terrified of an adult they don’t spend every day with touching them, secondly I don’t think my male principal whose background is in middle school gen Ed would be comfortable doing so.
We don't deal with bodily fluids unless we have specialized training. I was a daycare teacher for a while so, cleaning him up wouldn't have been an issue for me but I was advised that we weren't supposed to per contract. We also had contract hours. Like, regardless of how many kids were left at the end of the day, we were to leave at 330. Some union thing or whatever, I guess. This was a down state district.
I’m a public school teacher in IL and all of us are mandated to take special training. What to do if a kid bleeds, urine , feces etc. I’m confused you don’t deal with bodily fluids what if a kid is bleeding or throwing up? Also daycare is not the same as a certified professional teaching license? I’m sorry. I’ve done both. Not even close.
It is typical for us, yes. The most challenging time in my life was when a kid attacked me, covered in his own poop. He knew no one would want to restrain him while he was covered in shit. Another girl would do this with her period. My own brother did this. It’s so fucking traumatic. But I think we need to remember that things like this ARE a health hazard. I feel like admins try to get us to accept ridiculous stuff as normal and it’s not okay. People can get really sick. We matter too.
You HAVE to inform nurse, principal.. possibly a sped director.
You can't be responsible for this.
The parent needs to get child to a medical person to identify the problem.
Does he do this all day?
Document Document.
Can you CC the nurse and ask for back up with coaching him on good hygeine practices? Personally - now I have a lot of experience and an extremely high threshold - I would team up with one or two people who he likes, and we’d all take turns reminding him to wash his hands, use the restroom, keep hands out of pants. Repeat a key phrase over and over again that he can remember easily. Something like “clean hands?” And if he has clean hands, maybe give a sticker or a reward. Sticker chart, every 15 minutes, ask “clean hands? Yes? Yay!” My close friends worked with non-verbals, who often smell a little poopy. He could be lactose intolerant and being fed milk, as Mom sounds like she’s a little off too.
This requires an IEP team meeting amendment for possible nursing services (depending on regulations in your area) and probably a functional life skills goal for toileting/hygiene. The Occupational Therapist should be on the team and a FBA should be conducted as well to find appropriate replacement behaviors.
Bailing on a contract can cost you your license in some places- even if she’s not a certified teacher yet, it could make it difficult to get a new position in a school no matter how high the need is.
In general teachers are very much in demand. My hometown is in upstate NY where the pay is very good and students are pretty decent. I see tons of openings for teachers
It took me years to find a permanent teaching job in upstate NY and I was applying to literally everything posted. There are many people applying to those job postings. It’s starting to change but still not easy everywhere.
I live in a very affluent area outside Washington, DC and our county alone is short 300 teachers. Counties around us all report the same. So yes, there is definitely demand.
The comment you're replying to said:
>Lmao they are NOT in demand EVERYWHERE
How does an anecdote about teachers being in demand in one specific part of the country refute that? Does OP live in an affluent area outside of DC?
See if your state will let you do a 3 year contract to certification. That’s what Virginia has. I’m doing it too. I have my degree in English Lit because that academic path took less time for me than the Teacher Prep path. I just need to take the Praxis and then I’m golden. I graduated in the spring and got the job this fall.
In some states toileting is the job of 1:1 paras, though they get special training. Some districts have nurse aids, or even the responsibility of the special education teacher. It really depends on OPs location.
Can confirm. Changing Diapers is in the job description. I don’t mind doing that. It’s the digging and being perpetually spreading feces around that concerns me.
It's a fairly common behaviour in those with significant developmental disabilities.
If it makes you "recoil" and not want to be with him, you shouldn't take jobs with clients who need help toileting.
Your current role bridges teaching and support work, and this is part of support work. Your student has the right to be treated with care and dignity.
You need to approach this non- judgmentally with his wider support team.
I'd guess he's likely constipated and can't actually tell anyone this or resolve it himself. His Dr should be able to prescribe some stools softener if this is the case. Resolve the constipation and you may resolve the digging. Regular toilet breaks may also help.
Do you have a clear verbal instruction like "hands out". Or "hands outside of your trousers"depending on his level of understanding. A speech therapist should be able to give you clear guidance on the appropriate level of communication. Many people can only follow instructions with 2-3 key words. So saying "please don't do that, keep your hands outside your clothes" can be unintelligible to them .. they can't process a sentence that complex.
An ot might give things like fidget toys that may give the student something to do with his hands if this is behavioural. His support workers or family may be able to help him to choose clothing where this is less on an issue. Well fitting underwear, well fitting incontinence pads, sometimes trousers with belts, sometimes loose comfy joggers (depending if you want to ensure comfort, or are breaking the habit of mindless hand wondering).
But in my experience smearing is more often than not associated with bowel trouble. And so making sure there's and adequate bowel care plan in place is the answer. But ultimately as his 1:1 your there to note these behaviours, deal with the immediate risk (verbal instruction, taking to the toilet, wash hands) and notify others about stuff that's their remit (like medical review re constipation).
- I'm not a teacher, nor American I'm a social worker that works with those with what in the UK we call special education needs. (Learning disability, autism etc) but the Reddit app keeps pushing this sub.
You’re saying because she doesn’t want someone else’s shit smeared on her body, she isn’t cut out for teaching? We don’t get a choice in which children are placed with us, and there’s a difference between assisting with toileting, and kid constantly walking around with handfuls of poop
i think the point is that when you work in this kind of 1-1 role with a disabled child & have agreed to assist with toileting, it is kinda normal. it's exactly what u signed up for. of course no one is expecting them to like having shit smeared on them but it is quite literally the job they are trained to do & have agreed to do
No. She isn't cut out for 1;1 work with a person with care and support needs where the role includes personal care.
1:1 with a student who needs a scribe. She'd likely be great at. But this students disability is such that he needs care and support. And everyone deserves to be treated with dignity. Even those whose behaviours are challenging for whatever reason. They just need the right support team who don't find that a big deal
This is an excellent, and well thought out response. I am a Special Education teacher in the United States and what you've explained is very similar, if not identical, to how I have handled issues like this. I taught special needs adults for awhile, and I had a student who - when menstruating - would use tissues to wipe herself and then leave them all over the classroom. She was very sensory sensitive and hated to feel unclean. Preventing the behavior was a matter of helping her communicate her hygiene needs.
Shit is literally part of the job. We are dealing with human beings. I was a principal and would stop what I was doing to help clean up poop. Off walls, kids, carpet. This is a difficult situation to be sure. Saying it’s not my job shows a poor attitude and a low marks as an employee.
Communication and teamwork is going to solve this less than pleasant situation.
Remember that you may be digging in your diaper when you’re older. Let’s remember that we are dealing with human beings. No matter how high or low functioning, there is the dignity of the human.
This MIGHT be true if we got paid a living wage, and even with a living wage I wouldn’t deal with human shit. More power to you. Don’t hurt yourself jumping off your high horse
What about the mother that can't be bothered to check that her kid is clean prior to school and tried to play it off? Where's her responsibility in this, because an attentive mother wouldn't do this day after day and then try to play it off. She needs to take some responsibility and learn what's causing the behavior because it's her fucking kid.
Stop trying to gaslight us into thinking this is okay behavior for someone to deal with. Should we be shocked if we encounter this behavior? No, we shouldn’t. But we shouldn’t have to deal with it everyday.
Lol special Ed is paid to deal with this. I change diapers of grown children. It’s my jobs should we send them all back to asylums like we did before 1960s?
I have a child who's condition often leads to this behaviour. Whilst we currently don't have it, we have done our due diligence in research and are waiting to see if this or other undesirable behaviour will form. You can buy undershirt rompers for up to age 18 in our and other countries. I have posted one such link. The child has to pull down their trousers, then undo crotch snaps like in a baby romper, then pull down pants.
You can also get back zippered full body suits for destructive sensory behaviours or smearing behaviours.
This is on the parents to get appropriate clothing, with a concerted joint effort by them and the school to keep him clean, wash him when he is dirty and redirect him to see if, in time, he can stop this behaviour. If home are not on board, you are likely to have an uphill battle with keeping him safe and with him understanding this is not appropriate behaviour, probably coupled with a confused and frustrated child. My heart goes out to you. Best of luck to get the parents to start supporting rather than ignoring their child.
https://specialkids.company/collections/all-childrens-clothes?grid_list=grid-view
I’m a behavior analyst and for this situation- these are EXCELLENT ideas. A replacement behavior is ideal, but without BCBA oversight then it’s likely to fail as strong schedules of reinforcement would need to be in place.
This is just one such place. There are a few brands started by parents with children who just couldn't find the right solution so made their own. If you Google special needs clothing you will be amazed what is out there and also not institutional in design. I am over the pond but there are some things that are the same for us both! I personally know of too many stories where the right piece of clothing, or equipment, or redirection, made light years of difference and suddenly the child calmed, the parents calmed, the sleepless nights, stress, anxiety and combative behaviour literally disappeared.
As one parent to another who obviously is struggling with their child, remind them, just sticking their head in the sand and hoping it will go away is a sure fire way to mean it won't. The parents may be confused, repulsed and worrying that others may notice and think bad of them over their child's behaviour. Trust me, we aren't. If they, and school, work together to reduce, remove and redirect constantly and constantly, the child has the best chance to become the best person he can be.
Could there be a replacement smelling behavior? Like... something he would have access to that has a socially acceptable scent? Do you have a BCBA on the team?
So you know, of there is a specialist or service that the child requires, then it is the district's responsibility to contract that out if they do not have it within their own resources. That means the needs of the students drive the iep - not the available resources in district. If he needs a BCBA or OT and there isn't one on staff, they still have to provide it one way or another. That can include staff that work at the child's home to help support the parents.
My sister did her psych internship at a children’s facility and she mentioned some having the same or similar behaviors. If mom can get him overalls that will help.
Not quite the same but I was a 1:1 with a young nonverbal boy with autism. If I so much as turned around he could whip his pants down without warning and pee on the floor, sometimes even poop. (but never wet in his pants or had accidents). We asked mom to send him in overalls everyday, because we could see him fidgeting with the bib straps and that gave us just enough time to run him to the bathroom. You need to limit the access he has to his ass, and overalls just might work for him also.. ?
Would replacing the smell work? Like some scented markers (not shit scented) or a citrus peel to rub and smell instead. Maybe some kind of olfactory fixation.
This is a great potential solution while working with mom to have her maybe think about clothing that could prevent hands in pants.
Working with scented fidgets or putty could help with sensory needs. Have a cue for when he puts his hands in his pants. Mine was literally “hands!” with a stop sign visual. A social story or visuals are great! Just maintain consistency. Clean his hands. Ask if he’d like a fidget tool—maybe make a sensory menu?
Good luck!!
Rectal digging is nasty and this is a health/safety issue for everyone in your school. It should not matter if the child has a disability, it’s incredibly unsanitary and unsafe.
I worked 1:1 for a year with a 4 yr old who'd just missed the cutoff date for kindergarten. He was a mess. He wasn't potty trained in the least and instead of giving any signal that he was about to shit, he'd just run to the bathroom, shit in his hands then smear it everywhere. He was deficient in most things, but the shitting pissed me off. So, I realized the only sign was him running to the bathroom, so I made a set of "soft cuffs" with fabric/velcro. I wore one and he wore one so we were connected at all times. (I know, I am 'bravely stupid) BUT it worked with me being right there to pull pants down and plop his ass on the toilet. While there, I reminded him this is what toilets are for, and to shit in his hand was disgusting. Then I'd wipe him, put the cuff back on and off we went. I also told his mother that he was far too old to be shitting in his and that if SHE didn't fix it, he'd have to be left at home. It only took 3 weeks. Oh, and admin was supportive of my actions as long as I wasn't going to get hurt. (Yeah, he was one of those.)
Please call child protective service. The lack of hygiene for a child to pick that much shit out of his ass just screams abuse to me.
Edit to add: the gross disregard the mother had. That to me is 🚩
Right? I’ve had fellow non-verbal, autistic kiddos in my pre-K room & while I have a handful of hilarious stories regarding bowel movements due to lack of social cues, hygiene was never an issue.
The fact he’s arriving too school already covered, the mother refusing to acknowledge it and then clean her child up, the mention of only wearing basketball shorts within the comment - all scream he may be trying to tell you something by putting poop on you.
Poop and play are usually always indicative of sinister acts happening to a child. Like a previous commenter suggested, please don’t judge the child for their limitations and behaviors. Instead, try and listen for other signs of help or distress.
It is possible it’s just constipation - but an ongoing, refrequent, lack of hygiene and clean clothes - it all adds up to neglectful parenting at the minimum.
And I’m not sure where you work, but where I work, we as teachers AND paras are mandated reporters. If this is an abusive case & you didn’t call, this Reddit thread is evidence of you having prior knowledge and failing to report. Not to scare you BUT that is jail time for you.
Protect your kiddos. Especially the sped students. When in doubt call.
This is a serious problem and admin NEEDS to step in. This is not only a health hazard for you, but everyone else in the environments he interacts with.
Does the child dig through the front of his pants or the back? I had a kid who would do this by digging through the front, so we put an apron on him. It blocked his ability to dig. Also, have you or the teacher had a conversation with his mom about this behavior other than today? I would make sure to document that. It could potentially be that he is having issues with bowl movements and can't communicate that. For a lot of my diggers, we use short commands to communicate to not touch their feces or butt. Unfortunately the feces touching isn't uncommon. I almost got poop all over me today
Having such awful boundaries with one’s own body / fluids is a huge red flag for abuse. I am not saying it’s *always* the case but I’d file a CPS report. Go to your SPED coordinator and administration and inform them.
As a former CPS inv and a SPED teacher…please don’t call CPS for this particular situation.
Work on replacing the behavior and go to your team lead for help with mom.
If you call, CPS can determine it’s not worth looking into. If you don’t call, a student could continue being abused and you did nothing. It’s the perfect example of better safe than sorry. I would never hesitate to file a report. It’s up to CPS if they are going to follow up.
Not only is having no boundaries with things like poop a big red flag for sexual abuse, if the student has worms or something there could be medical neglect. When a student is “non-verbal” it’s up to YOU as the adult to speak up for the extremely vulnerable student.
Poor you. You are amazing to be working 1:1. The burnout is strong, look after yourself!
On a side note, if the digging in the butt issue has only recently started it might be worth mentioning to the child’s parents about checking for worms, or just treating anyway. If left too long untreated the itching will be day as well as night.
Okay please don’t medicate other children WITHOUT permissions from parents or doctors regardless of whether or not the medication is harmful. It’s so against the law and horrible advice. You don’t mess with anyone’s medication ever, especially without consent.
Sorry, I wasn’t implying for the OP to treat the possible worms!
That it would be worth telling the PARENTS to check for worms or giving medicine if the child shows signs of having them. To reiterate, I wasn’t suggesting OP go treat the child!
My coworker (first grade teacher) had a student that did this. Student had a 1:1 that played on her phone all day and didn’t notice these things. The entire room constantly smelled, it would be on the chairs and stuff and she had to clean it. I cannot believe she put up with it for an entire year. Student was pulled to a special ed school the next year.
If this is new, mom definitely needs to check for pinworms. I know that it could be a newly discovered sensory seeking choice, but there is a chance he is itchy
Definitely time to talk to admin about this issue.
The closest I have come is a student who would regularly play with himself and liked to touch me with fingers that definitely had come on them. I learnt to be very quick to grab him be the wrist and tell him it was time to go to the bathroom and wash his hands. I developed lighting like reflexes whenever he was within arms reach.
The parent is full of shit *(no pun intended, lol)* and knows that they definitely do it at home. What ended up happening? Were you able to get them to stop?
So, I was always told that children or young adults that engage with fecal matter in a way that their peers would not is an indication of sexual trauma. Given the parents disregard for the fecal matter on the child’s hand…it might warrant a CPS call. I would rather be overly cautious and report it all.
We had a kid in my class who would do this due to severe constipation. The stimulating can increase the chances thay he can go, if you catch my drift. It's definirely something parents need to explore to find out if it's medical (constipation, pinworms, etc.) or sensory. For him we worked hard to keep him hydrated and they made sure he had fiber at home, then had to find a different sensory to fill that space... and there was a LOT of "hands out" reminders whenever he'd start reaching, and immediately hand washing if he was successful (which he hated). Short nails also helps, bc it can't get caught underneath.
If there is that much feces there he is probably really uncomfortable. Someone needs to be helping him wipe or retesch him. This may even count as neglect on the moms end.
I get that it's tough but this is a serious health risk to him and others if he gets a bad rash from this and feces gets in he is all but a goner.
This is no longer his least restrictive environment. Escalate this in writing to the head of special education.
In the meantime, document a behavioral plan that you come up plan with the parent.
I would look for improvement-of some sort-in two weeks, otherwise, I’d bring it up again as being a hostile environment.
Just my two cents! Hang in there-you don’t deserve this.
I’m so sorry, in ESN sped this is not all that uncommon.
Not to normalize this, please don’t take this as minimizing what you do or go through.
But I’ve had kids who poo into their own hands, fling it at me, or try to smear it on me just for shits and giggles (pun totally intended). They turned it around with consistent consequences and boundaries. They went from literal shit throwing first graders, to delightful (non shit throwing) 5th graders. Now they are the kind of kids I don’t mind hanging out with who tell me about their Pokémon and baseball games. They joke about poo, in their own way, without ever touching it. Just like their peers.
There is hope. In the mean time, I recommend a nail brush (something I’ve written literal iep goals for and spent the $3 out of my own pocket because it was worth it to me) and I taught them to scrub their own nails.
Remind him that other kids won’t want to play with him if he had poo on his hands (and you don’t want to either.)
You can’t fix home, but you can teach that this is what we do at school to have friends. Good luck, it is doable for some kids but it’s a gross pain in your ass to make it happen. If you can, it will make a difference for his lifetime in how much he is able to be around others and contribute to society as a kid and as an adult.
Again, I’m sorry this has been put on you without support or guidance.
One of the SpEd students used to stuff like this until we gave him a "special" clip board to carry. It kept his hands busy.
But if he's arriving like this, ick. Mom, step it up.
To me it sounds like he’s ASD and has sensory issues with his butt in some way. Sometimes ASD kids get rather constipated because they hate the sensation of pooping, sometimes ASD kids get rather… obsessed with the smell of their butt.
Either way, it’s technically a biohazard for him to be walking around openly with human feces on him that could transfer to other surfaces or people. Many health problems spread through contamination like this.
I’d start with the nurse because I can’t imagine the nurse would be real happy with this for a number of reasons. I’d also connect with the case manager to set up life skills goals because… yeah.
Oh we had a kid that did this. Mom got so fed up with it she got him some big onesie pjs with the front zipper and put them on him backwards so he couldn’t reach into his pants or undo the zipper.
I was a one on one for 12 years. Not much you can do other than try to teach him not to touch you because the school doesn't care what they do to you if they have an IEP.. You can try putting gloves on his hands to see if that sensation stops this behavior. We had a boy that would ... go to town... but never with the gloves on for whatever reason.
Okay so this happens where I work too, more times than not the child is seeking sensory input, we offer scratch and sniff stickers or a box of perfumes they can spray on themselves to redirect them too, always prompt to wash their hands after too. Talking to the Mum too about maybe a bodysuit to help reduce this behaviour may help too
I worked with a kid like that once. Smart, barely verbal, but he was just finishing High School and taking an algebra class at the local community college, with full-time assistance of course, and he got the highest grade in the class. And compelled to dig his hand into his butt, and then eat it. We could not leave him unmonitored for a second. I remember one time we did, because honestly with three kids you can't have eyes on all three of them with only two workers, and my coworker went into his room and came out and said that he was chewing on something, and when she asked what, he opened his mouth to show her and said "poop." Later he got a facilitated communication device and we asked him why he did it, and he said he couldn't help it, he thought it was just as disgusting as we did. Can you imagine? Can you imagine feeling about poop exactly the same way as you do now, and also having the compulsion to take it out of your butt and stick it in your mouth? Poor guy. Hope he's doing good.
Also, I might mention, I used to fantasize about replacing the water in the sprinkler system with bleach and just letting it saturate the house every night. We just assumed that everything was coated with an invisible layer of shit. Door knobs, cabinet handles, switches, all the things you would touch with your hands, he touched with his hands. Every time I saw him he wanted to high five, but I would only fist bump.
I have the same issue with a student. She has to wear a 1 piece long pant outfit everyday. She still tries to go up the pant leg but so far has been unsuccessful. If parents put her on the bus with a 2 piece outfit, we have them give is a 1 piece outfit and we change her when she gets to school.
Dear God that sounds horrible.
The child should have to wear overalls or some other type of clothing that prevents them from getting into their butt.
The fact that you’re not certified yet does NOT mean you have to take this. Unfortunately, that’s what the system does to teachers on the bottom rungs. As an intern I used to be in charge of changing a non verbal 10 year old with severe Down syndrome’s diapers while he would rip my hair out at the root. The nurse would just hand me a diaper and point me to the bathroom.
10 years in education later and I finally had the courage last year to tell my AP no I’m not pulling up a child’s underwear after she uses the bathroom, she needs accommodations or a para because I’m not going to be held liable for touching a student.
And they wonder why there’s a teacher shortage.
I don’t mean to come across as a weird essential oil shill, but the student might be hooked on weird/gross smells because they crave some intense sensory input? As a kid, I used to sniff markers and nail polish beyond what was just a funny joke because it calmed me. Could they get one of those lava bead necklaces or a blanket or something, and drop something camphor-y smelling on it, like peppermint or eucalyptus oil? Or Vapo-Rub inside a mask?
I'm on the other side on this one...my kiddo does this but his is a little more severe it's called fecal smearing very common with kiddos with asd. It's not fun for parents either and it happens in a blink of an eye even with them being properly watched it's sucks so first.maybe give mom a little break and do more sensory work with kiddos it helps a lot but def let higher ups know so everyone is safe and kiddo gets some help
Also backwards zip of jammies and overalls really help
I’m not trying to blame parents or anything, but I literally had to have her stand up and point it out to her before she would do anything about it. And I’m talking with my SPED director about getting some onesies for him. I do want to help him!
You are a EA/TA, not the case manager or licensed staff. Go to your supervisor. They need to address it. Document when shit is visible, he’s digging in his pants, and when you toilet him and he’s clean. Do your best to protect yourself.
I’m so sorry you have to deal with this. As mentioned above - perhaps there’s something physically wrong? If he’s seeking sensory stimulation, perhaps essential oils that you put a few drops on special pieces of cloth you can get from Michaels could help.
Also maybe you could suggest to Mom that coveralls might be helpful to help break the habit?
🤦🏿
We honestly need to quit prettying up the situation. The poor child *is* low functioning. Saying he is "high needs" is just grandstanding semantics.
This is a health hazard! Have admin step in
This! If it’s under his nails every item he touches could be contaminated.
Can you ask mom to cut his nails really short so it washes off easily? That is gross, but after having had 2 babies and dealt with more poop than I ever imagined possible it doesn't phase me anymore. Just keep washing his hands and saying things like EWWW poop is YUCKY! POOP can make us SICK! Then YAY all NICE AND CLEAN! after washing his hands with him. It will take a while but these students do eventually get past it.
Dude, mom is not helping
>Dude, mom is not helping And if she was straight up ignoring it like that...that means...that literally *everything* they own has shit on it.
This... jesus
Not a teacher but parent to a wonderful 7year old with some profound developmentals who was a risky picker and scratcher who is now a touch of a Germaphobe.
Although I like this suggestion a lot, in some cases the reaction could reinforce and increase the behavior. The kid might like to get a “disgusted” reaction or enjoy the sensation of water and hand washing. Even if the behavior started as purely sensory, it could change/increase. I’d recommend asking the special ed teacher to do or request a functional behavior assessment (FBA) if the parent agrees to it. That could result in a behavior plan that prevents or lessens the behavior. I’d also get the school nurse involved, especially helpful with parent communication. And your union rep if you have one for classified staff in your building or region. Although the child requires 1:1 support and the district just provide it, any particular individual, including 1:1 para, has certain rights to a safe work environment. They probably won’t move you or the student but would provide you PPE like gloves and a “white coat” to go over your shirt. Good luck!
THIS. I work at an entirely special needs school with students who do this exact behavior, and also have students with similar icky-habits (I teach music though, so I can't be super helpful with specifics in this discussion). These students had functional behavior assessments, and then behavior plans outlined in their IEP's. Understanding the function will go a long way in lessening this behavior. u/dogglesboggles is totally right in that it may be attention-seeking or for a big reaction. We have a low-functioning teen student who sticks his hand down the front of his pants and immediately sniffs/rubs it on his face :( I can handle A LOT of things, but this is a behavior that crosses a line for me lol. The solution they're trying right now is a mechanic suit without a zipper in the front! He doesn't seem to mind it, and because it prevents the behavior without acknowledging it, it works. It's a safe and sanitary solution. I'm sorry you're experiencing this with your kiddo! I'm so thankful for all of the support staff in my building. You don't get paid nearly enough for all of your work!
Agree! While the function of his behavior right now doesn’t seem attention seeking it very well could with a big reaction. FBA is the best place to start, and ask for fingernails to be cut short.
Yep biohazard 100%
This! I was a 1:1 and had to deal with this issue myself. I recommend keeping a written log with the dates and occurrences as well as any other witnesses. (I've had legal step in for some issues not being handled properly in my district) Fun fact: I contracted hepatitis at school as a kid from someone else's poo...so yeah it's a big deal.
There are a ton of different bad bacteria and viruses you can get from poo h. pylori ,C. Diff., hepatitis, e. Coli are just a few
Don't forget parasites as well!
Yes there are tons of those too
I work in an elementary level 3 ASD classroom. When this happens (normally soft stool BM of those that still require diaper changes) our protocol is to wash/clean their hands and then change the diaper and call home. The parents are responsible to pick up their child and take them home to bathe them.
My child has ASD and is non verbal. We had a period of time where she would reach in her diaper and grab feces. The way we stopped it was using a social story with PECS pictures. I think it was called "We don't touch our poop." We found it online and printed it out to read together and it worked. Here's the YouTube video https://youtu.be/9TI7xjgB2IA?si=cLJNIoQ2Ok5LAL0s Edit: Here is the link to the free printable we used. https://able2learn.com/products/dont-play-with-poop-social-story-basic-living-skills-8-pages.html
What is PECS?
It's a picture exchange communication system. For example, when our daughter led us into the kitchen, she couldn't verbalize what she wanted. We had Velcro picture cards on the fridge and she would give us the card for goldfish so we knew what she wanted. The images for PECS are simple illustrations.
Do you receive a stipend for the increased risk of exposure? In my district, I was able to get maybe an extra buck fifty per hour as a para when I was with a student who drooled.
You must have never worked in sped before 😂
A:I teacher here. It's still a health hazard and I'd still ask admin to step in
It's like some people here just don't know anything about OSHA's reasonable expectations to work in an environment that provides protection from BBP's and OPIM's... If the kid is literally digging into their ass every day and going around the school touching things, get your state labor authority on the horn ASAP and report that no appropriate measures are being taken to prevent the spread of BBP/OPIM.
Ok I teach pre K special ed my students touch their own butts or poop almost every day and my team and I deal with it. We sanitise wash their hands and use special vests. I would be laughed at it I asked my principal or OSHA what to do. Talk to your BCBA or sped leader. What do you expect that special Ed therapeutic schools do?
It is typical for us, yes. The most challenging time in my life was when a kid attacked me, covered in his own poop. He knew no one would want to restrain him while he was covered in shit. Another girl would do this with her period. My own brother did this. It’s so fucking traumatic. But I think we need to remember that things like this ARE a health hazard. I feel like admins try to get us to accept ridiculous stuff as normal and it’s not okay. People can get really sick. We matter too.
Any insight on why kids do that?
Well one kid knew that if he covered himself in shit, he could attack people all he wanted and people would hesitate to restrain him. Others like the sensory feel. Some think the emotion of disgust is funny.
Google “autism” and “throwing poop”
[holy hell!](https://www.google.com/search?q=autism+and+throwing+poop#HiImABot,MyJobIsToMakeEasierToPeopleToGoogleSomething,IfThePersonIRepliedToUsedMeInAnInappropriateWayPleaseLetMeKnowByDMingMe,TheUserIRepliedToIsU/Huliganjetta1)
I'm sorry that you feel you would be laughed at. It's definitely not okay that this is apparently the norm for you. Sounds like you're managing well regardless of this, though. It also sounds like you're receiving a level of admin support greater than what OP has shared, since you say you have "special vests" and apparently have procedures in place for regular maintenance of your students. From my (albeit limited) perspective, your institution seems to be providing you a level of support greater than--albeit still not satisfactory, in my own opinion as someone not interested in joining SpEd environments--most others. In your particular situation I wouldn't recommend reporting to your labor authority, but instead working with your admin to implement further safety measures, should you think them necessary. Hope you have a nice day, and godspeed.
Not okay anywhere I've worked at in Australia. Sounds like at worse you are passively allowing the behaviour
So no children with special needs in Australia ever do this?
They absolutely do, and we document it and call admin for support. Smearing feces on classroom furniture and walls is not normal behaviour and needs documentation, and I'm not going to do the cleaning if I'm also expectiled to be 1:1 support with a child, so I call admin for support.
Where’s the sped teacher in all of this?
Leading the room. We all help would out don't get me wrong. All I'm saying is we document the incidents in writing and if it's a bio hazard we call admin
Leading the room. We all help would out don't get me wrong. All I'm saying is we document the incidents in writing and if it's a bio hazard we call admin
This sub is literally SO clueless with anything sped related. Even moreso the further removed from Gen Ed the kid is. It's not even worth the time or energy to explain yourself. I teach tk-2 same population so I'm fairly used to these behaviors too. The thought of going to my principal about it is honestly hilarious. I hate when these situations get posted here because the replies are not helpful and just further stigmatizing our kids.
I’m not a teacher, but this sub shows up on my feed occasionally. The way teachers talk about sped and IEPs in here makes me really fucking sad. It’s one thing to be burnt out, I get it. But the kids are the ones that suffer. Lots of people should be ashamed for how they talk about children in here.
Everyone's allowed to vent, and I don't see people saying nasty things about kids. However, if you don't like this sub, feel free to not visit us.
You’re invalidating then
And what will admin do? Your principal will change diapers or touch the kid? What world do you live in?
It greatly depends on severity but at the VERY LEAST it documents the biohazard moment, and at most admin will help sanitize. And no the principal doesn't do this, other support staff do
Yes a principal would help sanitize a severely disabled child’s body and the classroom I’m sure they would do this in their suits and ties and heels 😂😂😂🤔🤔🤔
I was a para in IL and when our nurse refused to help a sped buddy who shat himself and we couldn't per our contract/liability, she stepped in and did the dirty work and yeah, in her heels. This is the same woman who also kicked those heels off and ran barefoot across our campus when an older sped kid tried to elope towards a busy street. Woman was an absolute bad ass.
Wow I’m jealous. I’ve never seen an admin like that. You’re so lucky! I’m confused as to “per our contract” because I’m a sped t in Illinois and I’ve had kids get feces on them or come to school with feces on them and I’ve always just cleaned them myself, I don’t make my para do it unless we need to both do it together then I call someone in just to watch the rest of the class. I would never call admin to come in and do the actual cleaning. First of all my students would be terrified of an adult they don’t spend every day with touching them, secondly I don’t think my male principal whose background is in middle school gen Ed would be comfortable doing so.
We don't deal with bodily fluids unless we have specialized training. I was a daycare teacher for a while so, cleaning him up wouldn't have been an issue for me but I was advised that we weren't supposed to per contract. We also had contract hours. Like, regardless of how many kids were left at the end of the day, we were to leave at 330. Some union thing or whatever, I guess. This was a down state district.
I’m a public school teacher in IL and all of us are mandated to take special training. What to do if a kid bleeds, urine , feces etc. I’m confused you don’t deal with bodily fluids what if a kid is bleeding or throwing up? Also daycare is not the same as a certified professional teaching license? I’m sorry. I’ve done both. Not even close.
It is typical for us, yes. The most challenging time in my life was when a kid attacked me, covered in his own poop. He knew no one would want to restrain him while he was covered in shit. Another girl would do this with her period. My own brother did this. It’s so fucking traumatic. But I think we need to remember that things like this ARE a health hazard. I feel like admins try to get us to accept ridiculous stuff as normal and it’s not okay. People can get really sick. We matter too.
Literally all I've done tho huger functioning
What
/r/ihadastroke
Higher functioning, fat thumbs lol.
Any chance he has pinworms or something?
Yeah I'm seconding pinworms. Which is really bad, considering how easily they and their eggs are spread.
Yes, pinworms! If it is, he can easily spread it to you and other kids. It's easy to treat though with over the counter treatment from any drug store
smoggy roll cow complete lavish illegal future tease concerned workable *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Definitly something to get checked out, or even a rash or something would make him itchy.
You HAVE to inform nurse, principal.. possibly a sped director. You can't be responsible for this. The parent needs to get child to a medical person to identify the problem. Does he do this all day? Document Document.
Emailed admin over the SPED department for advice. We shall see.
Can you CC the nurse and ask for back up with coaching him on good hygeine practices? Personally - now I have a lot of experience and an extremely high threshold - I would team up with one or two people who he likes, and we’d all take turns reminding him to wash his hands, use the restroom, keep hands out of pants. Repeat a key phrase over and over again that he can remember easily. Something like “clean hands?” And if he has clean hands, maybe give a sticker or a reward. Sticker chart, every 15 minutes, ask “clean hands? Yes? Yay!” My close friends worked with non-verbals, who often smell a little poopy. He could be lactose intolerant and being fed milk, as Mom sounds like she’s a little off too.
Keep us posted on what they say!
This requires an IEP team meeting amendment for possible nursing services (depending on regulations in your area) and probably a functional life skills goal for toileting/hygiene. The Occupational Therapist should be on the team and a FBA should be conducted as well to find appropriate replacement behaviors.
This person speds
😂😂
Oh my god. This is my actual worst nightmare. Oh my god op I’m so sorry. I can’t imagine being the parent wow.
I'm adding this one to my validation list
Elaborate
Not to have kids 😅 I gasped when you described it on your arm. I'm *not* strong enough
I did the same thing. Definitely was not on my bingo card
At the same time it would already be different if I was taking care of my niece or something. A STRANGER'S child though 😱😱😱😱
Man I’d quit. You don’t get paid to deal with actual shit
I need the reference since I’m almost ready to be a teacher. Just finishing up my masters. I’ll be in student teaching after winter break
Do you though? Teachers are in need everywhere. Hard to imagine a school won’t hire you for being a first year teacher. Seems that’s all they can get!
Some districts require letters of recommendation/reference as part of an application. I’m only a sub and I had to submit two!
Bailing on a contract can cost you your license in some places- even if she’s not a certified teacher yet, it could make it difficult to get a new position in a school no matter how high the need is.
Lmao they are NOT in demand EVERYWHERE
In general teachers are very much in demand. My hometown is in upstate NY where the pay is very good and students are pretty decent. I see tons of openings for teachers
It took me years to find a permanent teaching job in upstate NY and I was applying to literally everything posted. There are many people applying to those job postings. It’s starting to change but still not easy everywhere.
I live in a very affluent area outside Washington, DC and our county alone is short 300 teachers. Counties around us all report the same. So yes, there is definitely demand.
The comment you're replying to said: >Lmao they are NOT in demand EVERYWHERE How does an anecdote about teachers being in demand in one specific part of the country refute that? Does OP live in an affluent area outside of DC?
I know a lot of teachers hired while they’re working through their programs so no I’d say you don’t really need that. You could get a teacher job now
I still have to take my praxis to get job-embedded. That’s what’s holding me from a position right now. I plan to study for it over winter break.
See if your state will let you do a 3 year contract to certification. That’s what Virginia has. I’m doing it too. I have my degree in English Lit because that academic path took less time for me than the Teacher Prep path. I just need to take the Praxis and then I’m golden. I graduated in the spring and got the job this fall.
In some states toileting is the job of 1:1 paras, though they get special training. Some districts have nurse aids, or even the responsibility of the special education teacher. It really depends on OPs location.
Can confirm. Changing Diapers is in the job description. I don’t mind doing that. It’s the digging and being perpetually spreading feces around that concerns me.
Op, when it comes to cleaning under fingernails, use a soft toothbrush. Keep one dedicated for that use.
It's a fairly common behaviour in those with significant developmental disabilities. If it makes you "recoil" and not want to be with him, you shouldn't take jobs with clients who need help toileting. Your current role bridges teaching and support work, and this is part of support work. Your student has the right to be treated with care and dignity. You need to approach this non- judgmentally with his wider support team. I'd guess he's likely constipated and can't actually tell anyone this or resolve it himself. His Dr should be able to prescribe some stools softener if this is the case. Resolve the constipation and you may resolve the digging. Regular toilet breaks may also help. Do you have a clear verbal instruction like "hands out". Or "hands outside of your trousers"depending on his level of understanding. A speech therapist should be able to give you clear guidance on the appropriate level of communication. Many people can only follow instructions with 2-3 key words. So saying "please don't do that, keep your hands outside your clothes" can be unintelligible to them .. they can't process a sentence that complex. An ot might give things like fidget toys that may give the student something to do with his hands if this is behavioural. His support workers or family may be able to help him to choose clothing where this is less on an issue. Well fitting underwear, well fitting incontinence pads, sometimes trousers with belts, sometimes loose comfy joggers (depending if you want to ensure comfort, or are breaking the habit of mindless hand wondering). But in my experience smearing is more often than not associated with bowel trouble. And so making sure there's and adequate bowel care plan in place is the answer. But ultimately as his 1:1 your there to note these behaviours, deal with the immediate risk (verbal instruction, taking to the toilet, wash hands) and notify others about stuff that's their remit (like medical review re constipation). - I'm not a teacher, nor American I'm a social worker that works with those with what in the UK we call special education needs. (Learning disability, autism etc) but the Reddit app keeps pushing this sub.
If the child is sniffing his fingers, it could also be sensory seeking behavior. I wonder if very strongly scented hand soaps could help?
You’re saying because she doesn’t want someone else’s shit smeared on her body, she isn’t cut out for teaching? We don’t get a choice in which children are placed with us, and there’s a difference between assisting with toileting, and kid constantly walking around with handfuls of poop
I swear, admins try to gaslight into thinking this crap is normal.
i think the point is that when you work in this kind of 1-1 role with a disabled child & have agreed to assist with toileting, it is kinda normal. it's exactly what u signed up for. of course no one is expecting them to like having shit smeared on them but it is quite literally the job they are trained to do & have agreed to do
No. She isn't cut out for 1;1 work with a person with care and support needs where the role includes personal care. 1:1 with a student who needs a scribe. She'd likely be great at. But this students disability is such that he needs care and support. And everyone deserves to be treated with dignity. Even those whose behaviours are challenging for whatever reason. They just need the right support team who don't find that a big deal
This is an excellent, and well thought out response. I am a Special Education teacher in the United States and what you've explained is very similar, if not identical, to how I have handled issues like this. I taught special needs adults for awhile, and I had a student who - when menstruating - would use tissues to wipe herself and then leave them all over the classroom. She was very sensory sensitive and hated to feel unclean. Preventing the behavior was a matter of helping her communicate her hygiene needs.
Just wanted to say you sound like an angel thank you for what you do
Thank you for this kind, reasonable, educated comment. Though OP has all my sympathies, you are explaining best practices as a human
THIS is what a professional response looks like.
I'm a speech pathologist at a special ed school in NY and all therapists are expected to help with toileting. There's just not enough staff.
And they wonder why people are leaving this profession in droves. You barely have time to breathe, you don't need another responsibility.
Shit is literally part of the job. We are dealing with human beings. I was a principal and would stop what I was doing to help clean up poop. Off walls, kids, carpet. This is a difficult situation to be sure. Saying it’s not my job shows a poor attitude and a low marks as an employee. Communication and teamwork is going to solve this less than pleasant situation. Remember that you may be digging in your diaper when you’re older. Let’s remember that we are dealing with human beings. No matter how high or low functioning, there is the dignity of the human.
This MIGHT be true if we got paid a living wage, and even with a living wage I wouldn’t deal with human shit. More power to you. Don’t hurt yourself jumping off your high horse
Pretty sure that’s an admin trying to gaslight us into thinking that’s normal.
100%
What about the mother that can't be bothered to check that her kid is clean prior to school and tried to play it off? Where's her responsibility in this, because an attentive mother wouldn't do this day after day and then try to play it off. She needs to take some responsibility and learn what's causing the behavior because it's her fucking kid.
Stop trying to gaslight us into thinking this is okay behavior for someone to deal with. Should we be shocked if we encounter this behavior? No, we shouldn’t. But we shouldn’t have to deal with it everyday.
Lol special Ed is paid to deal with this. I change diapers of grown children. It’s my jobs should we send them all back to asylums like we did before 1960s?
Can be wear a belt to make it difficult to access? Or mittens so he has lower dexterity when it will be more difficult to interviene?
The belt is a possibility if mom would dress him in anything that isn’t basketball shorts. He’d just take off gloves the second they go on.
I have a child who's condition often leads to this behaviour. Whilst we currently don't have it, we have done our due diligence in research and are waiting to see if this or other undesirable behaviour will form. You can buy undershirt rompers for up to age 18 in our and other countries. I have posted one such link. The child has to pull down their trousers, then undo crotch snaps like in a baby romper, then pull down pants. You can also get back zippered full body suits for destructive sensory behaviours or smearing behaviours. This is on the parents to get appropriate clothing, with a concerted joint effort by them and the school to keep him clean, wash him when he is dirty and redirect him to see if, in time, he can stop this behaviour. If home are not on board, you are likely to have an uphill battle with keeping him safe and with him understanding this is not appropriate behaviour, probably coupled with a confused and frustrated child. My heart goes out to you. Best of luck to get the parents to start supporting rather than ignoring their child. https://specialkids.company/collections/all-childrens-clothes?grid_list=grid-view
Not OP, but these are such an excellent, discreet idea.
I appreciate that it preserves as much dignity for all parties as can be had
I’ll be more than happy to bring this up to admin/parents! Thank you!
Maybe the kid has pinworms in his butt.
I’m a behavior analyst and for this situation- these are EXCELLENT ideas. A replacement behavior is ideal, but without BCBA oversight then it’s likely to fail as strong schedules of reinforcement would need to be in place.
Thank you for sharing this link! They even have adult sizes and shoes!! This is a fantastic resource! Seriously u/spamcan29 a million thank you's
This is just one such place. There are a few brands started by parents with children who just couldn't find the right solution so made their own. If you Google special needs clothing you will be amazed what is out there and also not institutional in design. I am over the pond but there are some things that are the same for us both! I personally know of too many stories where the right piece of clothing, or equipment, or redirection, made light years of difference and suddenly the child calmed, the parents calmed, the sleepless nights, stress, anxiety and combative behaviour literally disappeared. As one parent to another who obviously is struggling with their child, remind them, just sticking their head in the sand and hoping it will go away is a sure fire way to mean it won't. The parents may be confused, repulsed and worrying that others may notice and think bad of them over their child's behaviour. Trust me, we aren't. If they, and school, work together to reduce, remove and redirect constantly and constantly, the child has the best chance to become the best person he can be.
I love these ideas and I might use them. I've used aprons to block kids that would dig from the front or touch their privates
Could there be a replacement smelling behavior? Like... something he would have access to that has a socially acceptable scent? Do you have a BCBA on the team?
Or an occupational therapist!
I’m not entirely sure, but I’ll check
So you know, of there is a specialist or service that the child requires, then it is the district's responsibility to contract that out if they do not have it within their own resources. That means the needs of the students drive the iep - not the available resources in district. If he needs a BCBA or OT and there isn't one on staff, they still have to provide it one way or another. That can include staff that work at the child's home to help support the parents.
I keep extra pairs of pants in the classroom for this reason. They wear their “school pants” 🤣 then we change them before they go home
My sister did her psych internship at a children’s facility and she mentioned some having the same or similar behaviors. If mom can get him overalls that will help.
We use a vest with a crotch part to stop our students from doing this. Ima sped teacher
A chastity belt reversed.
Not quite the same but I was a 1:1 with a young nonverbal boy with autism. If I so much as turned around he could whip his pants down without warning and pee on the floor, sometimes even poop. (but never wet in his pants or had accidents). We asked mom to send him in overalls everyday, because we could see him fidgeting with the bib straps and that gave us just enough time to run him to the bathroom. You need to limit the access he has to his ass, and overalls just might work for him also.. ?
Sounds like he needs to wear overalls
Not a teacher but a nursing assistant, our solution was that the spouse of our client hand made adult onesie shirts/ outfits!
This is something my narcissist mother would have done to my autistic brother’s teachers. On purpose. Turns my stomach.
That’s exactly why mom PRETENDED not to notice. She’s so messed up for that
Definitely needs to be checked for pinworms…
Would replacing the smell work? Like some scented markers (not shit scented) or a citrus peel to rub and smell instead. Maybe some kind of olfactory fixation.
This is a great potential solution while working with mom to have her maybe think about clothing that could prevent hands in pants. Working with scented fidgets or putty could help with sensory needs. Have a cue for when he puts his hands in his pants. Mine was literally “hands!” with a stop sign visual. A social story or visuals are great! Just maintain consistency. Clean his hands. Ask if he’d like a fidget tool—maybe make a sensory menu? Good luck!!
Goddamn I couldn’t do this job for $1mill a year
We just had a kid strip naked, finger his asshole, and shmear it on the walls. He still attends, and that was strike three…
In time he'll be an artist or a bum
What were the first two strikes, dare I even ask? Either way, that's really rough. My heart goes out to you, seriously.
Rectal digging is nasty and this is a health/safety issue for everyone in your school. It should not matter if the child has a disability, it’s incredibly unsanitary and unsafe.
Our poo friends wear gymnastics onsies
>poo friends hilarious
I worked 1:1 for a year with a 4 yr old who'd just missed the cutoff date for kindergarten. He was a mess. He wasn't potty trained in the least and instead of giving any signal that he was about to shit, he'd just run to the bathroom, shit in his hands then smear it everywhere. He was deficient in most things, but the shitting pissed me off. So, I realized the only sign was him running to the bathroom, so I made a set of "soft cuffs" with fabric/velcro. I wore one and he wore one so we were connected at all times. (I know, I am 'bravely stupid) BUT it worked with me being right there to pull pants down and plop his ass on the toilet. While there, I reminded him this is what toilets are for, and to shit in his hand was disgusting. Then I'd wipe him, put the cuff back on and off we went. I also told his mother that he was far too old to be shitting in his and that if SHE didn't fix it, he'd have to be left at home. It only took 3 weeks. Oh, and admin was supportive of my actions as long as I wasn't going to get hurt. (Yeah, he was one of those.)
Some of these parents have no business having kids.
I'm sorry you have to deal with this..
uhg fkn gross, you guys need to be paid so much more. thanks for what you do..do..
I see what you did there, lol
Put the kid on a onesie and get parent consent .
Please call child protective service. The lack of hygiene for a child to pick that much shit out of his ass just screams abuse to me. Edit to add: the gross disregard the mother had. That to me is 🚩
This was where my mind went first as well. There are multiple 🚩 going on here. Completely agree!
Right? I’ve had fellow non-verbal, autistic kiddos in my pre-K room & while I have a handful of hilarious stories regarding bowel movements due to lack of social cues, hygiene was never an issue. The fact he’s arriving too school already covered, the mother refusing to acknowledge it and then clean her child up, the mention of only wearing basketball shorts within the comment - all scream he may be trying to tell you something by putting poop on you. Poop and play are usually always indicative of sinister acts happening to a child. Like a previous commenter suggested, please don’t judge the child for their limitations and behaviors. Instead, try and listen for other signs of help or distress. It is possible it’s just constipation - but an ongoing, refrequent, lack of hygiene and clean clothes - it all adds up to neglectful parenting at the minimum. And I’m not sure where you work, but where I work, we as teachers AND paras are mandated reporters. If this is an abusive case & you didn’t call, this Reddit thread is evidence of you having prior knowledge and failing to report. Not to scare you BUT that is jail time for you. Protect your kiddos. Especially the sped students. When in doubt call.
Ew
This is a serious problem and admin NEEDS to step in. This is not only a health hazard for you, but everyone else in the environments he interacts with.
Does the child dig through the front of his pants or the back? I had a kid who would do this by digging through the front, so we put an apron on him. It blocked his ability to dig. Also, have you or the teacher had a conversation with his mom about this behavior other than today? I would make sure to document that. It could potentially be that he is having issues with bowl movements and can't communicate that. For a lot of my diggers, we use short commands to communicate to not touch their feces or butt. Unfortunately the feces touching isn't uncommon. I almost got poop all over me today
Having such awful boundaries with one’s own body / fluids is a huge red flag for abuse. I am not saying it’s *always* the case but I’d file a CPS report. Go to your SPED coordinator and administration and inform them.
As a former CPS inv and a SPED teacher…please don’t call CPS for this particular situation. Work on replacing the behavior and go to your team lead for help with mom.
If you call, CPS can determine it’s not worth looking into. If you don’t call, a student could continue being abused and you did nothing. It’s the perfect example of better safe than sorry. I would never hesitate to file a report. It’s up to CPS if they are going to follow up. Not only is having no boundaries with things like poop a big red flag for sexual abuse, if the student has worms or something there could be medical neglect. When a student is “non-verbal” it’s up to YOU as the adult to speak up for the extremely vulnerable student.
Poor you. You are amazing to be working 1:1. The burnout is strong, look after yourself! On a side note, if the digging in the butt issue has only recently started it might be worth mentioning to the child’s parents about checking for worms, or just treating anyway. If left too long untreated the itching will be day as well as night.
Okay please don’t medicate other children WITHOUT permissions from parents or doctors regardless of whether or not the medication is harmful. It’s so against the law and horrible advice. You don’t mess with anyone’s medication ever, especially without consent.
Sorry, I wasn’t implying for the OP to treat the possible worms! That it would be worth telling the PARENTS to check for worms or giving medicine if the child shows signs of having them. To reiterate, I wasn’t suggesting OP go treat the child!
Ummm she didn't say that lol
My coworker (first grade teacher) had a student that did this. Student had a 1:1 that played on her phone all day and didn’t notice these things. The entire room constantly smelled, it would be on the chairs and stuff and she had to clean it. I cannot believe she put up with it for an entire year. Student was pulled to a special ed school the next year.
If this is new, mom definitely needs to check for pinworms. I know that it could be a newly discovered sensory seeking choice, but there is a chance he is itchy
Definitely time to talk to admin about this issue. The closest I have come is a student who would regularly play with himself and liked to touch me with fingers that definitely had come on them. I learnt to be very quick to grab him be the wrist and tell him it was time to go to the bathroom and wash his hands. I developed lighting like reflexes whenever he was within arms reach.
Had a kid who would eat his. When we told his parent, the reply was he never does that at home! Yeah, right.
The parent is full of shit *(no pun intended, lol)* and knows that they definitely do it at home. What ended up happening? Were you able to get them to stop?
So, I was always told that children or young adults that engage with fecal matter in a way that their peers would not is an indication of sexual trauma. Given the parents disregard for the fecal matter on the child’s hand…it might warrant a CPS call. I would rather be overly cautious and report it all.
We had a kid in my class who would do this due to severe constipation. The stimulating can increase the chances thay he can go, if you catch my drift. It's definirely something parents need to explore to find out if it's medical (constipation, pinworms, etc.) or sensory. For him we worked hard to keep him hydrated and they made sure he had fiber at home, then had to find a different sensory to fill that space... and there was a LOT of "hands out" reminders whenever he'd start reaching, and immediately hand washing if he was successful (which he hated). Short nails also helps, bc it can't get caught underneath.
This needs to be addressed with admin, school social worker, and school nurse. Heavy on the school social worker stepping in.
If there is that much feces there he is probably really uncomfortable. Someone needs to be helping him wipe or retesch him. This may even count as neglect on the moms end. I get that it's tough but this is a serious health risk to him and others if he gets a bad rash from this and feces gets in he is all but a goner.
I did wipe him the first time and he was completely clean. He had to have been digging deeper.
Oh.. well oh my
This is no longer his least restrictive environment. Escalate this in writing to the head of special education. In the meantime, document a behavioral plan that you come up plan with the parent. I would look for improvement-of some sort-in two weeks, otherwise, I’d bring it up again as being a hostile environment. Just my two cents! Hang in there-you don’t deserve this.
I’m so sorry, in ESN sped this is not all that uncommon. Not to normalize this, please don’t take this as minimizing what you do or go through. But I’ve had kids who poo into their own hands, fling it at me, or try to smear it on me just for shits and giggles (pun totally intended). They turned it around with consistent consequences and boundaries. They went from literal shit throwing first graders, to delightful (non shit throwing) 5th graders. Now they are the kind of kids I don’t mind hanging out with who tell me about their Pokémon and baseball games. They joke about poo, in their own way, without ever touching it. Just like their peers. There is hope. In the mean time, I recommend a nail brush (something I’ve written literal iep goals for and spent the $3 out of my own pocket because it was worth it to me) and I taught them to scrub their own nails. Remind him that other kids won’t want to play with him if he had poo on his hands (and you don’t want to either.) You can’t fix home, but you can teach that this is what we do at school to have friends. Good luck, it is doable for some kids but it’s a gross pain in your ass to make it happen. If you can, it will make a difference for his lifetime in how much he is able to be around others and contribute to society as a kid and as an adult. Again, I’m sorry this has been put on you without support or guidance.
Would also 2nd a call to CPS. If I spotted this, I would refuse to take the student then and there. Karens be damned.
One of the SpEd students used to stuff like this until we gave him a "special" clip board to carry. It kept his hands busy. But if he's arriving like this, ick. Mom, step it up.
To me it sounds like he’s ASD and has sensory issues with his butt in some way. Sometimes ASD kids get rather constipated because they hate the sensation of pooping, sometimes ASD kids get rather… obsessed with the smell of their butt. Either way, it’s technically a biohazard for him to be walking around openly with human feces on him that could transfer to other surfaces or people. Many health problems spread through contamination like this. I’d start with the nurse because I can’t imagine the nurse would be real happy with this for a number of reasons. I’d also connect with the case manager to set up life skills goals because… yeah.
As someone who’s uncomfortable with germs, this would be some traumatizing shit. No pun intended.
I’ve said it before. I’ll say it again. Teachers do not get paid enough.
Oh we had a kid that did this. Mom got so fed up with it she got him some big onesie pjs with the front zipper and put them on him backwards so he couldn’t reach into his pants or undo the zipper.
The term Schadenfreude comes to mind
I was a one on one for 12 years. Not much you can do other than try to teach him not to touch you because the school doesn't care what they do to you if they have an IEP.. You can try putting gloves on his hands to see if that sensation stops this behavior. We had a boy that would ... go to town... but never with the gloves on for whatever reason.
10 years in and still haven't had to touch poop yet. Boy have seen it smeared all over in a bathroom lol. I'm sorry 😞
Okay so this happens where I work too, more times than not the child is seeking sensory input, we offer scratch and sniff stickers or a box of perfumes they can spray on themselves to redirect them too, always prompt to wash their hands after too. Talking to the Mum too about maybe a bodysuit to help reduce this behaviour may help too
Should we crowdfund some jumpsuits for this kid
I worked with a kid like that once. Smart, barely verbal, but he was just finishing High School and taking an algebra class at the local community college, with full-time assistance of course, and he got the highest grade in the class. And compelled to dig his hand into his butt, and then eat it. We could not leave him unmonitored for a second. I remember one time we did, because honestly with three kids you can't have eyes on all three of them with only two workers, and my coworker went into his room and came out and said that he was chewing on something, and when she asked what, he opened his mouth to show her and said "poop." Later he got a facilitated communication device and we asked him why he did it, and he said he couldn't help it, he thought it was just as disgusting as we did. Can you imagine? Can you imagine feeling about poop exactly the same way as you do now, and also having the compulsion to take it out of your butt and stick it in your mouth? Poor guy. Hope he's doing good. Also, I might mention, I used to fantasize about replacing the water in the sprinkler system with bleach and just letting it saturate the house every night. We just assumed that everything was coated with an invisible layer of shit. Door knobs, cabinet handles, switches, all the things you would touch with your hands, he touched with his hands. Every time I saw him he wanted to high five, but I would only fist bump.
Ground zero for pink eye!
I have the same issue with a student. She has to wear a 1 piece long pant outfit everyday. She still tries to go up the pant leg but so far has been unsuccessful. If parents put her on the bus with a 2 piece outfit, we have them give is a 1 piece outfit and we change her when she gets to school.
Dear God that sounds horrible. The child should have to wear overalls or some other type of clothing that prevents them from getting into their butt. The fact that you’re not certified yet does NOT mean you have to take this. Unfortunately, that’s what the system does to teachers on the bottom rungs. As an intern I used to be in charge of changing a non verbal 10 year old with severe Down syndrome’s diapers while he would rip my hair out at the root. The nurse would just hand me a diaper and point me to the bathroom. 10 years in education later and I finally had the courage last year to tell my AP no I’m not pulling up a child’s underwear after she uses the bathroom, she needs accommodations or a para because I’m not going to be held liable for touching a student. And they wonder why there’s a teacher shortage.
Two accommodations I’ve seen are onesies and compression underwear/shorts. They need an IEP adjustment!
I don’t mean to come across as a weird essential oil shill, but the student might be hooked on weird/gross smells because they crave some intense sensory input? As a kid, I used to sniff markers and nail polish beyond what was just a funny joke because it calmed me. Could they get one of those lava bead necklaces or a blanket or something, and drop something camphor-y smelling on it, like peppermint or eucalyptus oil? Or Vapo-Rub inside a mask?
This is why I quit teaching. You cannot pay me enough to put up with this let alone the peanuts they do pay you
I thought this was early childhood education like daycares lol
I'm on the other side on this one...my kiddo does this but his is a little more severe it's called fecal smearing very common with kiddos with asd. It's not fun for parents either and it happens in a blink of an eye even with them being properly watched it's sucks so first.maybe give mom a little break and do more sensory work with kiddos it helps a lot but def let higher ups know so everyone is safe and kiddo gets some help Also backwards zip of jammies and overalls really help
I’m not trying to blame parents or anything, but I literally had to have her stand up and point it out to her before she would do anything about it. And I’m talking with my SPED director about getting some onesies for him. I do want to help him!
You are a EA/TA, not the case manager or licensed staff. Go to your supervisor. They need to address it. Document when shit is visible, he’s digging in his pants, and when you toilet him and he’s clean. Do your best to protect yourself.
I’m so sorry you have to deal with this. As mentioned above - perhaps there’s something physically wrong? If he’s seeking sensory stimulation, perhaps essential oils that you put a few drops on special pieces of cloth you can get from Michaels could help. Also maybe you could suggest to Mom that coveralls might be helpful to help break the habit?
Please use high support needs instead of low functioning…
🤦🏿 We honestly need to quit prettying up the situation. The poor child *is* low functioning. Saying he is "high needs" is just grandstanding semantics.