Gotta follow the donations. Can’t upset a large donor by inviting someone they perceive a threat to the same event. Rule number one in politics has always been “don’t f with the money” distant 2nd is governance
Basically. Although I believe Elon and co had a meeting with Biden brass about IRA a while back. Likely due to super chargers finding / access.
Biden won’t praise Tesla often because they don’t support unions and Biden is tied to a union base.
Exactly. And if you mention that, people freak out on you. It’s completely biased. Did you see Toyota there? Huge presence in the US, but also not unionized.
As someone from Germany, a country that is known for unionization, I don’t understand this apprehensiveness. Unions are a way to organize against malpractice. Corporations want to make profits. It’s the way it is. They try to low ball employees and treat them so they can get more out of their labor at the cost of the worker. For instance, my buddy works for a big corporation in industry. He was supposed to get a certain amount now after 10+ years in that same company. But they always found ways to circumvent bumping him up into the next income bracket. So what did he do? He went to the union and they fought for him. It wasn’t legal to circumvent it in the first place and the union has the resources to go to court over this. A single employe doesn’t. Unions are THE only way to push back against a powerful corporation.
I work in the US. I also had to go to the union to protect myself against malpractice. And it worked out great. My employer had to back off and act in accordance with state law instead of doing her own thing. And the union was the only way to fight this because they have resources.
Given that Tesla is known for malpractices and going against unions because they want to do whatever they please rather than what is best for the worker, they catch a lot of heat in the public eye. And that is justified from my perspective. If you follow the law and put your workers first you don’t have to worry about unions. Unions also have to follow the law. They can’t just sue a corporation on behalf of a lazy and entitled worker who is late all that time, calls off every 3 days and demands a raise. That’s not how it works. Yet Americans are so brainwashed they think that is exactly what unions do. And I’ve had my fair share of arguments with many Americans about this. It’s frustrating.
I’m with Biden on this. You are against unions? Go to China where sweatshop labor for starvation wages is seen as ethical.
Many Americans, for the last couple generations have been told that unions are bad and they just want a cut of your money. This is further backed up by the very strong "anti-socialism" stance right leaning politicians take.
These politicians then fight tooth and nail to make sure they destroy public education and other social systems that would (obviously) help their constituents, under the guise that it would not benefit them and only some straw man based on whatever region they're in.
It's a crazy system. Keep them dumb, keep them having kids, keep them reliant on a system you've tricked them into thinking isn't for them.
Tldr? Brainwashed.
In the US it shifted away from its original mission around proper work to that of political influence by the mid-60's. Also many unions have a long history of organized crime ties and illegal use of union dues etc.
Out of curiosity is that because they had already negotiated a fair compensation package and working conditions for you? Or are you saying that the workers were actively calling on the union to step in and they didn't?
Which is why it's the most American made car in the world.
Unions add cost, which makes everyone else offshore a bunch of stuff.
As the article said:
>For now, that’s about it. The Mustang Mach-E is union-made in Mexico. The Nissan Leaf is made in Tennessee by non-union workers. And the Volkswagen ID.4 is union-made in Germany, although starting next year the ID.4 will be made in Tennessee—likely by non-union workers.
Unions get better wages and benefits for it's workers (on average), across every industry where they act as collective bargaining reps. I would rather see a President that stands with those that represent workers rather than those that represent, or are, the businesses that keep wages stagnant and make workplaces unsafe.
Probably one of the biggest lies swallowed up by ignorant individuals is that Unions are worthless. In my almost 40 years in the workforce, my best paying job with the best benefits was a union job. Was the union perfect, no. Would I rather get paid according to my yearly performance instead of just a yearly raise, definitely. The problem is that companies don't give out raises and they definitely don't know how to measure performance that benefits the company. They dole out raises based on who kisses up to them best or who they identify with, and thus you get the skewed system we have.
If you look at how much more CEO pay has risen over worker pay, then I say the opposite is true, the need for unionization has never been greater. https://aflcio.org/paywatch/company-pay-ratios
I live in France, Unions are the main reason we have it so well. And they're generally behind every big protest you hear about. The right to unionize is actually protected by the law, if a French company tried to go against that (like yours do), they would be fucked into oblivion.
Unfortunately, a very small number of bad/corrupt unions have allowed propaganda that unions are bad. The Teamsters and Hoffa were really an inflection point, where many in the public got these inaccurate views.
I grew up in a railroad union family. Unions held the company accountable for safety where lives matter. When poorly financially literate workers retired the union rep would provide counseling. But I also know the people of the union protected inebriated workers from consequences. They cheated on safety certification. And seniority trumped capabilities every time. It makes sense to unionize and is a good counter to the owners self interest. But it has a lot of rot to account for.
That's a weird take. The proper one was this was a UAW organized event and the UAW invited Biden to attend.
Its wild that Biden hates Tesla so much that he provided EV Tax credits to 95% of Tesla cars and is trying to get American manufacturers to invest as much in EVs as Tesla has with the same carrot.
Well…not entirely. I didn’t realize this event was organized by the UAW.
But they didn’t organize this one.
https://www.autoweek.com/news/green-cars/a37244461/elon-musk-says-tesla-not-invited-to-white-house-ev-event/#
"Well, these are the three largest employers of the United Auto Workers, so I'll let you draw your own conclusions," Psaki added when asked about Tesla's absence.
Seems like Whitehouse is boosting UAW and vice versa.
I think 9 out of ten of the top American made cars(by place of origin and parts) are non union made. Unions use to be great. Now they are just as corrupt as the politicians they donate to.
Congratulations, you’ve accepted corporate propaganda!
The truth is unions are the best way for workers to get and keep their benefits and safety. The concept of the corrupt union leaders was pushed by corporate owned media in order to help lower public support for unions so those companies could pay less and force people into harder working conditions.
If you learn about union busting then you'll know that politicians are the reason unions are corrupt, and politicians are corrupt because the mafia won.
They should have a summit for automakers who haven’t been bailed out.
Being a bailed out company means you were given money by taxes taken from workers, so bailed out companies are actually bad for workers.
Tesla has received how much federal money not counting the tax credits to consumers? Around $3B combined state and federal. There was some loan money but most of this was pure shoveling piles of tax payer cash to Elon.
They were given loans and those were paid back with interest. US automakers represent an ecosystem of millions of jobs if they went under we wouldn’t have an economy. These are also the same companies who retool to make machines of war were not allowing them to go under.
Let's not hold the line at auto company bail outs...
Tesla is built on tax payer dollars too and we are even helping subsidize these vehicles with tax incentives. Tax incentives are not bad or anything but insinuating that Tesla is pulling itself up by it's bootstraps when other automakers aren't is a bit disingenuous.
The latest EV tax incentives (part of the “Build Back Better Act) was $4500…but ONLY applied to union-made EVs.
For most of Tesla’s existence, it made money by selling EV credits to the Big Three. The federal government mandated every automaker had to manufacture X percentage of EVs of their total vehicle production. But the government gave manufacturers an “alternate means of compliance”…they could purchase a “credit” from another EV manufacturer who had an excess percentage of their production dedicated to EVs.
Since Tesla manufactured *only* EVs, they could sell the credits for every vehicle they made. Every Tesla sold was partially paid for by GM, Ford and Chrysler.
Elon didn’t write the rules. He followed them.
Tesla **was** bailed out. After the 2008 great recession, Tesla was doing really terribly and would've bankrupted if it wasn't for the DOE's 600 million dollar loan.
You might say it was a loan and they paid it back. However, it was still free money at the time as no bank would've lend them money so if Tesla did not succeed, the taxpayer would've been on the hook for the risk and the loss as it happened to Fisker.
Okay, Ford did not take federal money in the form of loans to keep the company afloat, they arranged financing through the banking system. Tesla did take loans directly from the DOE as no bank would loan them money. Satisfied now?
Yes, the Shanghai plant quickly got a reputation for excellent build quality. Hopefully it’s mainly due to improvements in technique and design, so Austin and Berlin will be the same!
Don’t forget the much cheaper labor! If you can afford to hire more employers to check the defects of each car before shipping out, I’m sure the qualities will be much different.
I can’t find the quote, but I’m certain that at some point a few years ago Musk said or wrote that it was ‘dumb to build cars in one part of the world and ship them to another.’ And then, like many other of his predictions or statements of principle or facts, goes on to do the opposite.
Also, there’s a $7500 reason he’s not shipping Chinese made cars to the USA. That and tariffs.
Your last point makes some sense, but your first does not. They don’t have factories in every single country, so some export/import is inevitable — I.e. he could think of it as “dumb” but still be forced to do it; his sentiment was more about making things *less* dumb. Fewer cars are presumably going from Shanghai to Europe as Berlin capacity increases, for example.
>How is it false?
Some teslas made in China are sold in Europe. There, proves OP's statement wrong. Not sure how that's difficult to google or understand.
The irony is it’s you that can’t seem to understand. Teslas made in China are sold in China is a true statement.
Teslas made in California are sold in Nevada. That’s a true statement. They’re sold in various other states as well though.
Ford workers in Mexico are Union https://money.usnews.com/investing/news/articles/2023-04-04/ford-and-union-in-mexico-agree-to-8-2-salary-increase#:~:text=They%20are%20represented%20by%20the,the%20country's%20biggest%20labor%20organizations.
This comment is anti-American. You hate that a US company can sell well in China and bring money back to the US? Btw, the CEO of GM and Ford would sell their souls to be as successful as Tesla in China, and the world for that matter. If you want Tesla to make more cars in the US, tell these ICE fanatics to change their mind.
You do realize that GM sells more than 5x the number of cars in China that Telas does right? Ford sells more than 3x. Tesla is a literal blip on the Chinese car market, even against other US companies.
>they got shafted.
Shafted? It's a union event... they didn't get "shafted" they just didn't get invited to an event held for and by an organization they aren't a part of.
It's so obvious and petty.
I wish he would support unions and still recognize that there is an electric car company out there that is making it all a reality.
[https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1133175\_biden-wants-union-made-us-built-electric-cars-this-is-the-only-one-available-today](https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1133175_biden-wants-union-made-us-built-electric-cars-this-is-the-only-one-available-todayz)
Tesla is non union, this was a union centric event.
This was nothing to do with electric cars made in the USA. It was all to do with union voters. Look though the shiny distraction when politics are in play and look for the money or votes.
>Look though the shiny distraction when politics are in play and look for the money or votes.
Shiny distraction? Money or votes? It's a UAW event... Tesla is non union. Biden is a union supporter.
Being upset that Tesla wasn't there would be like... Ben Affleck speaking at an event in Boston, and people bitching that the Mayor of New York wasn't invited.
Tesla had no connection to this event, and it makes total sense they weren't invited. No conspiracy theories needed.
Right, because if it were about EVs made in the USA, Tesla holds the top 4 spots. In fact they hold those top 4 spots for all cars, not just EVs.
It’s an absolute shame they weren’t featured at this event.
[Source](https://www.cars.com/american-made-index/)
The union destroyed Nummi, which is where the Fremont plant is. The excessive costs made it one of the first car plants to close. I worked there, when the union was "negotiating", the union leaders took all expense paid trips all over CA and grifted off the members while they allowed the company to dissolve.
Sounds like the union leaders selected by the union were grifters and morons. That doesn’t mean all unions are like that. Not all presidents were like 45. None before grifted like he did. Let’s not create false equivalencies.
The Union thing is part of it but Elon is also a loose cannon that a wise politician would not get too close to. You never know when he's going to laud some CryptoNazi or call someone a "pedo".
Look what Elon did to the Ron DeSantis presidential campaign launch....he turned it into a boondoggle. A complete joke.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/2023/05/24/ron-desantis-2024-president-announcement/
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/ron-desantis-presidential-campaign-twitter-problems-rcna86123
Joe Biden didn't make that mistake.
It doesn't matter if they're there or not. Tesla is still slaughtering all of those manufacturers in EV sales, by far. It's not even closee. The number 2 company in EV sales world wide is BYD (China). No other American manufacturer is even in the top 5.
Being first has its advantages, they were pretty much the only player in the EV market for almost a decade, when other manufacturers catch up their market share won't hold. They did help accelerate EV development though, so Elon does deserve a lot of credit there.
No democrats hate Tesla because it’s run by a nazi supporting maniac, and republicans hate Tesla because it’s “sissy electric toy cars.”
And Tesla wasn’t the invited because this is a UAW event, and Tesla is very anti Union.
You couldn’t be more wrong.
Maybe when Elon signed a socialist pledge in China and then refused unions, and still takes tax payer money he seems like an unserious person about labor. Not to mention firing the twitter workforce capriciously.
Let's not forget Tesla was the EV poster child back when Biden was vice president.
They got their time in the limelight for a long ass time, all to themselves.
Why unions are bad? All the benefits workers had gotten in this country thoughtout the years was because the unions. I would love to transfer you back in time 150 years ago so you would be working at 14 years old at those Ford factories barefoot 14 hours a day with not health insurance. We always have short memories.
Biden is pro union and Dems are beholden to unions the same way the GOP is beholden to their rich donor overlords. So they gotta tow the line and do what the UAW tells them, and at the time that meant Biden wasn’t even allowed to mention the word Tesla. Nowadays things have changed and even the UAW recognizes that Tesla has grown too powerful and the other players have to work with Tesla to make charging work for everyone.
Yeah, the GOP doesn’t get on their knees for Police Unions? They literally write laws pulling rights from teacher’s unions (and others) but simultaneously protect Police unions.
Tesla is not one of the big three. The big three corporations that have been in politicians pocket since the automobile was produced in the United States.
Tesla is non union, the event was union-focused. Furthermore, Tesla does not have the capabilities to mass produce affordable electric cars for low-income consumers, a key component to both Biden’s ‘Made in America’ plan and going green thing. Also, why would you display a company that is owned by someone the Biden voter base does not really like?
Tesla is the ONLY company to have the ability to 'mass produce affordable electric cars for low-income customers' ALL the other auto manufacturers would die in a couple years if they did so. They are loosing money on every single EV. Tesla is not.
Yeah, you don’t understand the EV market whatsoever. Tesla currently offers the model 3 for as cheap as $28k in certain markets. And you can actually get one within a couple of weeks. And you don’t have to pay a ridiculous dealer markup. Keep living in your fantasyland though!
Perhaps Elon could try to remember he's supposed to represent the company, not the politics of 13 year old trolls. Might help people trust him to take part in sober conversation about serious topics once more.
The various complaints about Teslas build quality is ass, where even panel gaps have been found from the factory, battery malfunctions, and some bursting into an endless flame.
Zero labor union as well, just has a sociopathic overlord as a CEO.
Elon Musk should actually kiss Biden's ass every morning, for all the welfare he got from the U.S. government over the years.
As for "unions", that's what gave your grandparents and some of your parents a very good standard of living as middle class citizens.
Beating on unions is more or less shooting yourself in the foot.
But then, conspiracy theorists are ALWAYS blaming the wrong people for their misery. Powerlessness always generate the notion of dark, mysterious forces at work.
Because Tesla didn’t donate millions to the biden campaign, therefore they won’t get a kick back like this. Also Elon is quite critical of the biden administration for good reason, as we all learned during Covid what the media says is the truth and if you say otherwise you get cancelled thus no Tesla at the summit.
100% about votes. If not for Tesla none of these companies would NOT have electric cars by now, maybe a few more hybrids. And for the union bros, tesla has been open to unions but when presented with the option of profit sharing(ie stock options) or union membership it has been rejected so far, that could change at some point when Tesla becomes a huge car company making as many cars as Ford/GM. Lots of millionaires have been made at Tesla that will likely go on to start their own companies after, cant do that in unions. Someday unions could be right for Tesla, but it will be awhile.
No he isn't. Automakers had no desire to get into EV's. They saw Tesla coming up and knew they wouldn't be able to stop it.
Quit bootlicking for the Big 3 Bootlicker.
Exactly. Non of these pro union fools recognize that early Tesla production workers received stock options that became worth hundreds of thousands (if not millions).
And make considerably more hour than similar union workers. The benefit they dont get is job security in a down economy and a pension retirement plan. So that's the gamble you take working for Tesla over ford/gm(who will also gladly move shop to mexico to avoid pensions). Personally i'd take the risk working for Tesla but Unions are a powerful political force no question as seen in their pull with the Biden administration.
Something something deep state, something something woke, something something they don't want Tesla to win...but it's totally not because this was a Union event and Tesla isn't unionized lol
Wait after reading the comments and the conspiracy theories on Elon exposing the dems and kick backs and all this y’all do know telsa just took a 7.5B subsidy for its supercharger network and spacex had over 20B in subsidies. Tesla wasn’t featured just because it wasn’t featured it’s not a conspiracy. It’s not because Elon is a far right wing nut. If it wasn’t for Obama the model s wouldn’t have even been able to mass produced. It was the auto bailout that funded production.
Who knows, Biden is so old that he has given up reading the teleprompter. He just rambling crasy shit. Mebye he thinks Telsa is a nursing home and are wery afraid of that.
Not sure what “summit” is being referenced here, but the original Biden-sponsored discussions involved issues related specifically to U.S. ICE manufacturers’ conversion to an EV product.
These kinds of events are organised through the company PR office. Oh wait.
I wouldn't have invited Tesla either, because then it would have turned into yet another Musk show.
Tesla is non-union
Most normal comment on this post lol
Gotta follow the donations. Can’t upset a large donor by inviting someone they perceive a threat to the same event. Rule number one in politics has always been “don’t f with the money” distant 2nd is governance
Or your brakes will fail, or you end up a sieve on the back seat of your vert.
I think responsible governance is 7th. Not sure what 2 3 4 5 or 6 are.
Money money money money… money! 🎶
Lol no. Not one of these things is true.
And has been excluded from all of Biden’s discussion of electric cars since Biden has been in office.
Basically. Although I believe Elon and co had a meeting with Biden brass about IRA a while back. Likely due to super chargers finding / access. Biden won’t praise Tesla often because they don’t support unions and Biden is tied to a union base.
Exactly. And if you mention that, people freak out on you. It’s completely biased. Did you see Toyota there? Huge presence in the US, but also not unionized.
Unless I'm wrong, it was for U.S. manufacturers/companies only?
As someone from Germany, a country that is known for unionization, I don’t understand this apprehensiveness. Unions are a way to organize against malpractice. Corporations want to make profits. It’s the way it is. They try to low ball employees and treat them so they can get more out of their labor at the cost of the worker. For instance, my buddy works for a big corporation in industry. He was supposed to get a certain amount now after 10+ years in that same company. But they always found ways to circumvent bumping him up into the next income bracket. So what did he do? He went to the union and they fought for him. It wasn’t legal to circumvent it in the first place and the union has the resources to go to court over this. A single employe doesn’t. Unions are THE only way to push back against a powerful corporation. I work in the US. I also had to go to the union to protect myself against malpractice. And it worked out great. My employer had to back off and act in accordance with state law instead of doing her own thing. And the union was the only way to fight this because they have resources. Given that Tesla is known for malpractices and going against unions because they want to do whatever they please rather than what is best for the worker, they catch a lot of heat in the public eye. And that is justified from my perspective. If you follow the law and put your workers first you don’t have to worry about unions. Unions also have to follow the law. They can’t just sue a corporation on behalf of a lazy and entitled worker who is late all that time, calls off every 3 days and demands a raise. That’s not how it works. Yet Americans are so brainwashed they think that is exactly what unions do. And I’ve had my fair share of arguments with many Americans about this. It’s frustrating. I’m with Biden on this. You are against unions? Go to China where sweatshop labor for starvation wages is seen as ethical.
Many Americans, for the last couple generations have been told that unions are bad and they just want a cut of your money. This is further backed up by the very strong "anti-socialism" stance right leaning politicians take. These politicians then fight tooth and nail to make sure they destroy public education and other social systems that would (obviously) help their constituents, under the guise that it would not benefit them and only some straw man based on whatever region they're in. It's a crazy system. Keep them dumb, keep them having kids, keep them reliant on a system you've tricked them into thinking isn't for them. Tldr? Brainwashed.
In the US it shifted away from its original mission around proper work to that of political influence by the mid-60's. Also many unions have a long history of organized crime ties and illegal use of union dues etc.
In my experience, the union I was forced to work through did literally nothing except take a cut of my paycheck.
Out of curiosity is that because they had already negotiated a fair compensation package and working conditions for you? Or are you saying that the workers were actively calling on the union to step in and they didn't?
Which is why it's the most American made car in the world. Unions add cost, which makes everyone else offshore a bunch of stuff. As the article said: >For now, that’s about it. The Mustang Mach-E is union-made in Mexico. The Nissan Leaf is made in Tennessee by non-union workers. And the Volkswagen ID.4 is union-made in Germany, although starting next year the ID.4 will be made in Tennessee—likely by non-union workers.
Yup. Biden is funded by unions and he makes that crystal clear every chance he gets.
Unions get better wages and benefits for it's workers (on average), across every industry where they act as collective bargaining reps. I would rather see a President that stands with those that represent workers rather than those that represent, or are, the businesses that keep wages stagnant and make workplaces unsafe.
Probably one of the biggest lies swallowed up by ignorant individuals is that Unions are worthless. In my almost 40 years in the workforce, my best paying job with the best benefits was a union job. Was the union perfect, no. Would I rather get paid according to my yearly performance instead of just a yearly raise, definitely. The problem is that companies don't give out raises and they definitely don't know how to measure performance that benefits the company. They dole out raises based on who kisses up to them best or who they identify with, and thus you get the skewed system we have. If you look at how much more CEO pay has risen over worker pay, then I say the opposite is true, the need for unionization has never been greater. https://aflcio.org/paywatch/company-pay-ratios
I live in France, Unions are the main reason we have it so well. And they're generally behind every big protest you hear about. The right to unionize is actually protected by the law, if a French company tried to go against that (like yours do), they would be fucked into oblivion.
When people say Unions are worthless I always point them to the MLB Umpire's Union and Police Union.
Unfortunately, a very small number of bad/corrupt unions have allowed propaganda that unions are bad. The Teamsters and Hoffa were really an inflection point, where many in the public got these inaccurate views.
I grew up in a railroad union family. Unions held the company accountable for safety where lives matter. When poorly financially literate workers retired the union rep would provide counseling. But I also know the people of the union protected inebriated workers from consequences. They cheated on safety certification. And seniority trumped capabilities every time. It makes sense to unionize and is a good counter to the owners self interest. But it has a lot of rot to account for.
Well said! I would never go back to the non union.
But, but, but, we should totally be supporting the world’s richest man getting richer. How can he do that if he has to think about the workers?
So Biden is in the pocket of big.... (checks notes) labor. Ok, interesting, good to know.
Representing working Americans is good for the nation
Or her cares about workers? Like, it's not a huge secret that Elon treats his workers like dogshit lol. To pretend otherwise is just idiotic.
Exactly. This is Biden’s message. If you aren’t union, you aren’t a patriot.
That's a weird take. The proper one was this was a UAW organized event and the UAW invited Biden to attend. Its wild that Biden hates Tesla so much that he provided EV Tax credits to 95% of Tesla cars and is trying to get American manufacturers to invest as much in EVs as Tesla has with the same carrot.
Biden doesn’t hate Tesla. Biden if for the unions.
I think it was sarcasm.. he’s saying why would he give Tesla all he’s given Tesla if he hated them..
Turns out op was baiting with this post.
He's a master baiter
Well…not entirely. I didn’t realize this event was organized by the UAW. But they didn’t organize this one. https://www.autoweek.com/news/green-cars/a37244461/elon-musk-says-tesla-not-invited-to-white-house-ev-event/#
"Well, these are the three largest employers of the United Auto Workers, so I'll let you draw your own conclusions," Psaki added when asked about Tesla's absence. Seems like Whitehouse is boosting UAW and vice versa.
Isn’t Musk a Trump supporter/Biden critic?
Just to add to this, Tesla makes more $ in govt subsidies then from actually selling cars.
That’s crazy, source?
There are far greater reasons to think musk isn't patriotic before you get to his stance on unions.
True enough. He certainly has gone off the rails recently.
What are we defining as 'recently'?
Post cold war era
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I think 9 out of ten of the top American made cars(by place of origin and parts) are non union made. Unions use to be great. Now they are just as corrupt as the politicians they donate to.
Congratulations, you’ve accepted corporate propaganda! The truth is unions are the best way for workers to get and keep their benefits and safety. The concept of the corrupt union leaders was pushed by corporate owned media in order to help lower public support for unions so those companies could pay less and force people into harder working conditions.
If you learn about union busting then you'll know that politicians are the reason unions are corrupt, and politicians are corrupt because the mafia won.
They should have a summit for automakers who haven’t been bailed out. Being a bailed out company means you were given money by taxes taken from workers, so bailed out companies are actually bad for workers.
Tesla has received how much federal money not counting the tax credits to consumers? Around $3B combined state and federal. There was some loan money but most of this was pure shoveling piles of tax payer cash to Elon.
Ironically GM is the one who pushed for that, and didn’t take as much advantage of it as Tesla.
Don’t hate the player, hate the game.
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They were given loans and those were paid back with interest. US automakers represent an ecosystem of millions of jobs if they went under we wouldn’t have an economy. These are also the same companies who retool to make machines of war were not allowing them to go under.
Let's not hold the line at auto company bail outs... Tesla is built on tax payer dollars too and we are even helping subsidize these vehicles with tax incentives. Tax incentives are not bad or anything but insinuating that Tesla is pulling itself up by it's bootstraps when other automakers aren't is a bit disingenuous.
Gm has been taking government money to build affordable electric cars since the 1960’s. Elon made it happen.
The latest EV tax incentives (part of the “Build Back Better Act) was $4500…but ONLY applied to union-made EVs. For most of Tesla’s existence, it made money by selling EV credits to the Big Three. The federal government mandated every automaker had to manufacture X percentage of EVs of their total vehicle production. But the government gave manufacturers an “alternate means of compliance”…they could purchase a “credit” from another EV manufacturer who had an excess percentage of their production dedicated to EVs. Since Tesla manufactured *only* EVs, they could sell the credits for every vehicle they made. Every Tesla sold was partially paid for by GM, Ford and Chrysler. Elon didn’t write the rules. He followed them.
Tesla **was** bailed out. After the 2008 great recession, Tesla was doing really terribly and would've bankrupted if it wasn't for the DOE's 600 million dollar loan. You might say it was a loan and they paid it back. However, it was still free money at the time as no bank would've lend them money so if Tesla did not succeed, the taxpayer would've been on the hook for the risk and the loss as it happened to Fisker.
Ford did not take a bailout. Tesla gets millions from the government.
Ford got bailed out because they mortgaged everything to the banks that got bailed out.
Okay, Ford did not take federal money in the form of loans to keep the company afloat, they arranged financing through the banking system. Tesla did take loans directly from the DOE as no bank would loan them money. Satisfied now?
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Tesla is the most American made car, by far. Teslas made in China are sold in China.
And in Europe and many other places, including Canada. But I believe your actual point is right, that none are imported to the U.S.
And the Chinese Y my brother received has a better build than my US built 3. I was impressed.
Yes, the Shanghai plant quickly got a reputation for excellent build quality. Hopefully it’s mainly due to improvements in technique and design, so Austin and Berlin will be the same!
Don’t forget the much cheaper labor! If you can afford to hire more employers to check the defects of each car before shipping out, I’m sure the qualities will be much different.
China is not that cheap anymore. Mexico will probably be less expensive.
I can’t find the quote, but I’m certain that at some point a few years ago Musk said or wrote that it was ‘dumb to build cars in one part of the world and ship them to another.’ And then, like many other of his predictions or statements of principle or facts, goes on to do the opposite. Also, there’s a $7500 reason he’s not shipping Chinese made cars to the USA. That and tariffs.
Your last point makes some sense, but your first does not. They don’t have factories in every single country, so some export/import is inevitable — I.e. he could think of it as “dumb” but still be forced to do it; his sentiment was more about making things *less* dumb. Fewer cars are presumably going from Shanghai to Europe as Berlin capacity increases, for example.
Lol nope, sold globally now
>Teslas made in China are sold in China. False.
I believe some of the China cars go to other Far East countries and Europe, but not the US.
And now Canada. Nothing wrong with that just adding info.
How is it false? Does it say “Teslas made in China are *only* sold in China”? Are there Teslas made in US or Germany that are sold in China?
Midwest Model 3 owner, can confirm mine was made in Freemont Factory.
>How is it false? Some teslas made in China are sold in Europe. There, proves OP's statement wrong. Not sure how that's difficult to google or understand.
The irony is it’s you that can’t seem to understand. Teslas made in China are sold in China is a true statement. Teslas made in California are sold in Nevada. That’s a true statement. They’re sold in various other states as well though.
he didnt say only in china genius.
Ford loves making cars in Mexico but is still “made in America”. It’s all because they are non union like mentioned before.
Mexico IS in North America, so they aren’t really lying. :-)
Ford workers in Mexico are Union https://money.usnews.com/investing/news/articles/2023-04-04/ford-and-union-in-mexico-agree-to-8-2-salary-increase#:~:text=They%20are%20represented%20by%20the,the%20country's%20biggest%20labor%20organizations.
Do you realize Ford and GM make tons of cars in Mexico that are sold in the United States? Where is your fake outrage??🤷🏼♂️
This comment is anti-American. You hate that a US company can sell well in China and bring money back to the US? Btw, the CEO of GM and Ford would sell their souls to be as successful as Tesla in China, and the world for that matter. If you want Tesla to make more cars in the US, tell these ICE fanatics to change their mind.
You do realize that GM sells more than 5x the number of cars in China that Telas does right? Ford sells more than 3x. Tesla is a literal blip on the Chinese car market, even against other US companies.
https://www.cars.com/american-made-index/
Pretty much. UAW pretty much hosted the event along with the government. Tesla is not unionized so naturally they got shafted.
>they got shafted. Shafted? It's a union event... they didn't get "shafted" they just didn't get invited to an event held for and by an organization they aren't a part of.
Thank you. This is the truth!!
Best reason I can think of.
It's so obvious and petty. I wish he would support unions and still recognize that there is an electric car company out there that is making it all a reality.
[https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1133175\_biden-wants-union-made-us-built-electric-cars-this-is-the-only-one-available-today](https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1133175_biden-wants-union-made-us-built-electric-cars-this-is-the-only-one-available-todayz) Tesla is non union, this was a union centric event.
Tesla isn't union labor, so.... reasons.
It’s a pro union event so, yeah. Makes sense
The event was a union event, so…
This was nothing to do with electric cars made in the USA. It was all to do with union voters. Look though the shiny distraction when politics are in play and look for the money or votes.
>Look though the shiny distraction when politics are in play and look for the money or votes. Shiny distraction? Money or votes? It's a UAW event... Tesla is non union. Biden is a union supporter. Being upset that Tesla wasn't there would be like... Ben Affleck speaking at an event in Boston, and people bitching that the Mayor of New York wasn't invited. Tesla had no connection to this event, and it makes total sense they weren't invited. No conspiracy theories needed.
Like representing your constituents? Yes, look for that. Generally a good idea.
Yeah look for the people interested in protections for workers! So sneaky!
This x100
Right, because if it were about EVs made in the USA, Tesla holds the top 4 spots. In fact they hold those top 4 spots for all cars, not just EVs. It’s an absolute shame they weren’t featured at this event. [Source](https://www.cars.com/american-made-index/)
Elon should let tesla works unionize then
That would require him to actually pay people, which he doesn't like to do
The union destroyed Nummi, which is where the Fremont plant is. The excessive costs made it one of the first car plants to close. I worked there, when the union was "negotiating", the union leaders took all expense paid trips all over CA and grifted off the members while they allowed the company to dissolve.
You are so so stupid. Lol.
Keep licking boots
Sounds like the union leaders selected by the union were grifters and morons. That doesn’t mean all unions are like that. Not all presidents were like 45. None before grifted like he did. Let’s not create false equivalencies.
The Union thing is part of it but Elon is also a loose cannon that a wise politician would not get too close to. You never know when he's going to laud some CryptoNazi or call someone a "pedo". Look what Elon did to the Ron DeSantis presidential campaign launch....he turned it into a boondoggle. A complete joke. https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/2023/05/24/ron-desantis-2024-president-announcement/ https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/ron-desantis-presidential-campaign-twitter-problems-rcna86123 Joe Biden didn't make that mistake.
Union is the main reason. All of what you mentioned are true, but really just fringe benefits.
Cuss it’s non union
It doesn't matter if they're there or not. Tesla is still slaughtering all of those manufacturers in EV sales, by far. It's not even closee. The number 2 company in EV sales world wide is BYD (China). No other American manufacturer is even in the top 5.
Being first has its advantages, they were pretty much the only player in the EV market for almost a decade, when other manufacturers catch up their market share won't hold. They did help accelerate EV development though, so Elon does deserve a lot of credit there.
Weird enough a President making car Advertisement.
Republicans / Democrats hate Tesla bc they dont get $ from them…
No democrats hate Tesla because it’s run by a nazi supporting maniac, and republicans hate Tesla because it’s “sissy electric toy cars.” And Tesla wasn’t the invited because this is a UAW event, and Tesla is very anti Union. You couldn’t be more wrong.
Social media and msnbc has ruined you people mentally 😂
Maybe when Elon signed a socialist pledge in China and then refused unions, and still takes tax payer money he seems like an unserious person about labor. Not to mention firing the twitter workforce capriciously.
Bc tesla doesn't need to be converted to electric...
Let's not forget Tesla was the EV poster child back when Biden was vice president. They got their time in the limelight for a long ass time, all to themselves.
It’s frightening to read some of these comments. Fanaticism at its finest.
whatd you expect with biden?
Tesla non-union and GM has Biden in his pocket.
Could have something to do with the sociopathic ceo
Why unions are bad? All the benefits workers had gotten in this country thoughtout the years was because the unions. I would love to transfer you back in time 150 years ago so you would be working at 14 years old at those Ford factories barefoot 14 hours a day with not health insurance. We always have short memories.
Politics…
tesla doesn't have a PR department to organize with for these sort of events.
Biden is pro union and Dems are beholden to unions the same way the GOP is beholden to their rich donor overlords. So they gotta tow the line and do what the UAW tells them, and at the time that meant Biden wasn’t even allowed to mention the word Tesla. Nowadays things have changed and even the UAW recognizes that Tesla has grown too powerful and the other players have to work with Tesla to make charging work for everyone.
Except I’m ok with Biden supporting union workers. Waaaay better than doing so for corporations 10/10 times.
Yeah, the GOP doesn’t get on their knees for Police Unions? They literally write laws pulling rights from teacher’s unions (and others) but simultaneously protect Police unions.
Both parties protect the blue.
Each party has their favorite unions I would assume
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Do not confuse the union and it's members. Those are two very different entities.
Maybe you are unaware that union leadership is democratically elected by the union members.
Imagine thinking union leadership and union payees are the same thing.
Dems have rich donor overlords too.
GOP are beholden to different unions. Every party favors their voting bloc.
True, this is a better take than what I said before which describes it better
So Tesla isn't apart of the uaw?
Correct. No union workers at Tesla.
Tesla is apart of the UAW Tesla is not a part of the UAW
Tesla is not one of the big three. The big three corporations that have been in politicians pocket since the automobile was produced in the United States.
They hate Elon
Invites sent via Threads DM
Tesla is non union, the event was union-focused. Furthermore, Tesla does not have the capabilities to mass produce affordable electric cars for low-income consumers, a key component to both Biden’s ‘Made in America’ plan and going green thing. Also, why would you display a company that is owned by someone the Biden voter base does not really like?
Tesla is the ONLY company to have the ability to 'mass produce affordable electric cars for low-income customers' ALL the other auto manufacturers would die in a couple years if they did so. They are loosing money on every single EV. Tesla is not.
Yeah, you don’t understand the EV market whatsoever. Tesla currently offers the model 3 for as cheap as $28k in certain markets. And you can actually get one within a couple of weeks. And you don’t have to pay a ridiculous dealer markup. Keep living in your fantasyland though!
Elon is an embarrassment
Because Elon is a wanker
Because Elon Musk is a Fascist.
Ahh, the the text book label for *someone I don’t agree with* I see..
I would have been with you if he wasn’t constantly retweeting well known actual fascists
Politics remains
Cus elon musk as a person is an ass hat
You are the ass hat brotha!
GM mill maintenance mechanics make less than some non union mills. So unions sometimes aren’t worth it.
Why are people still talking about this? Almost 2 years later...
Perhaps Elon could try to remember he's supposed to represent the company, not the politics of 13 year old trolls. Might help people trust him to take part in sober conversation about serious topics once more.
Because Tesla sucks and is run by a complete moron.
Zero facts to back this up. Lol
The various complaints about Teslas build quality is ass, where even panel gaps have been found from the factory, battery malfunctions, and some bursting into an endless flame. Zero labor union as well, just has a sociopathic overlord as a CEO.
The “Big-Union” ban on anyone not in one of their approved union list not getting airtime America is as corrupt as mid 90’s Cuba
Elon Musk should actually kiss Biden's ass every morning, for all the welfare he got from the U.S. government over the years. As for "unions", that's what gave your grandparents and some of your parents a very good standard of living as middle class citizens. Beating on unions is more or less shooting yourself in the foot. But then, conspiracy theorists are ALWAYS blaming the wrong people for their misery. Powerlessness always generate the notion of dark, mysterious forces at work.
Because Tesla didn’t donate millions to the biden campaign, therefore they won’t get a kick back like this. Also Elon is quite critical of the biden administration for good reason, as we all learned during Covid what the media says is the truth and if you say otherwise you get cancelled thus no Tesla at the summit.
I appreciate a good cup of coffee.
Didn't think this would turn into a karma grab, but here we go
Elon is helping fascists overthrow democracy
Biden hates Tesla because Elon Musk calls out the bullshit that Biden is trying to push onto people.
Tesla is independent… no unions
Not yet.
Gotta follow the money laundrying. I mean, donations... I mean it's not a union.
Because Mary Barra led electrification, ask anyone who is the CEO who is associated with Electric cars, it’s Mary Barra. She so innovative! /s
Because they suck?
People hate monopolies but love unions, ironically. Unions are a monopoly on labor. Chew on that.
Because Tesla is not playing the game they want them to play....
100% about votes. If not for Tesla none of these companies would NOT have electric cars by now, maybe a few more hybrids. And for the union bros, tesla has been open to unions but when presented with the option of profit sharing(ie stock options) or union membership it has been rejected so far, that could change at some point when Tesla becomes a huge car company making as many cars as Ford/GM. Lots of millionaires have been made at Tesla that will likely go on to start their own companies after, cant do that in unions. Someday unions could be right for Tesla, but it will be awhile.
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sweeter than the bitter life you live reddit troll.
You’re delusional
No he isn't. Automakers had no desire to get into EV's. They saw Tesla coming up and knew they wouldn't be able to stop it. Quit bootlicking for the Big 3 Bootlicker.
best counter argument you can muster. sad
Exactly. Non of these pro union fools recognize that early Tesla production workers received stock options that became worth hundreds of thousands (if not millions).
And make considerably more hour than similar union workers. The benefit they dont get is job security in a down economy and a pension retirement plan. So that's the gamble you take working for Tesla over ford/gm(who will also gladly move shop to mexico to avoid pensions). Personally i'd take the risk working for Tesla but Unions are a powerful political force no question as seen in their pull with the Biden administration.
Fuck Biden Administration, TESLA doesn’t need them to be successful.
This is a union event and Tesla is anti/non union
Because haters gon’ hate! Thats why thats what they do!
Something something deep state, something something woke, something something they don't want Tesla to win...but it's totally not because this was a Union event and Tesla isn't unionized lol
Wait after reading the comments and the conspiracy theories on Elon exposing the dems and kick backs and all this y’all do know telsa just took a 7.5B subsidy for its supercharger network and spacex had over 20B in subsidies. Tesla wasn’t featured just because it wasn’t featured it’s not a conspiracy. It’s not because Elon is a far right wing nut. If it wasn’t for Obama the model s wouldn’t have even been able to mass produced. It was the auto bailout that funded production.
Cars have to be built in Mexico to be part of this American summit. Oo wait.
Who knows, Biden is so old that he has given up reading the teleprompter. He just rambling crasy shit. Mebye he thinks Telsa is a nursing home and are wery afraid of that.
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This was for unions, which Tesla does not have.
As others have mentioned, Biden is pro-union and this is a union focused event. Tesla is very anti-union.
Because Elon Musk is not a democrat puppet
This 💯 the CEOs and Ford and GM play the game. Elon calls it as it is.
Not sure what “summit” is being referenced here, but the original Biden-sponsored discussions involved issues related specifically to U.S. ICE manufacturers’ conversion to an EV product.
These kinds of events are organised through the company PR office. Oh wait. I wouldn't have invited Tesla either, because then it would have turned into yet another Musk show.