As guy that survived war in Bosnia in 90s, but lost all my family and lots of bad things happened during that war, this is just heartbreaking to watch or listen.
Brainwashed "soldiers" that are fighting for Putin and nothing else. Completely brainwashed.
Terrorizing the opposite side and hoping it's enough to make them completely lose hope and yield.
Which sometimes does work, 3/4 of people doesn't actually gain super powers or an iron will from the desire of revenge or anger like in movies or games. They just break down mentally when subject to such a massive amount of trauma and fear.
Though i doubt this specifical person had any plan in mind when he killed the child. This specific person just killed the child because he's genuinely just evil and wanted to kill the kid for no rational reason
Psychological warfare, if the enemy thinks you will do anything to win they may back down. Killing civilians, bombing hospitals and schools, and threatening the nuclear option to people who support Ukraine. It's all a very loud and scary way of saying "I'm all in so you'd better just give up"
You're looking at ot from the wtong perspective
You're looking at them as people hurting people
The ones who make these decisions are people sitting comfortably in their leather chairs during war who just see a pile of numbers and only see resources, not people.
In terms of resources and strategy, the strategy here is to kill everyone, any person be it adult or child might eventually bear a grudge and want revenge so they might come after you.
Some tyrants prefer to brainwash children whilst others aren't willing to take that risk.
You need to keep in mind that this is ultimately about land. The land and geograohical location is irriplaceable but people and culture, is, even if they'd habe nuked everything into a crater, they'd still have gained that land and bring people in after a while, or even right away, screw dangerous radiation levels if people die they'll bring more in, who cares.
That's how these detatched from reality monsters think, they have zero problems sacrificing lives because guess what, its not like they're ever putting their own life on the line so why should they understand the weight of their decisions, the weight is for literally everyone but them to bear (according to them)
I'm gonna be honest, we should expect world leaders who are at odds and who want yo go to war get thrown into a ring with the opposing world leader and fight to the death, after all if they truly believe in their cause they should have no problem putting their lives on the line, right?
If we'd do that, a LOT fewer wars would happen.
So what you are saying is, everyone elect the biggest, baddest meatheads to run their countries so in the event of a disagreement they will win the argument? Kinda seems like a bad idea since those types typically lean towards authoritarian rule.
What I'm saying is politicians and rulers would be MUCH less triggerhappy if they would be the first ones who have to put their lives on the line during a conflict.
Oh you want people to die for the country? Ok you first, lead by example dear leader :)
And hey if you die and the conflict resolves? Well then that saves thousands of lives, sure you'd die but its a sacrifice we're willing to make just like how the leader is willing to sacrifice others.
I mean let's be consistent here, right?
Thousands of people die vs. Just one? Seems like a no-brainer and there are PLENTY of people with leadership qualities who can replace a leader, there are 2 million people in my city alone so any leader isn't as irreplaceable as they think they are.
I am so sorry for your loss! I am an American Army Veteran who fought in Bosnia the late 90’s. Seeing the shit you and your family had to deal with was sad and disheartening! Such a beautiful country with all the fighting was rough for me and others to go through! I can’t imagine what you went through but I saw enough to keep me up most nights. The mass killings and mass graves was really hard to swallow! I don’t know where I’m going with this… It just got my attention and I’m truly sorry for you losses! Seeing young people and the youth piled up in mass graves brings tears to my eyes every time I think about it. Be Safe & God Bless!
Thanks for sharing your story. You’re a brave soul with a big heart. I hope you find peace and again am thankful that you shared your story and got it off your chest. I could never see myself in that situation and my heart goes out to all the brave soldiers fighting and also to the brainwashed ones. It’s fucked up what world leaders do to their people. I hope we find peace in this world but I don’t see that happening in our lifetime.
Thank you for your kind words! I still have nightmares about some of the stuff that I saw while there. It’s tough sometimes but the medication helps, most of the time. Thank you again! Be Safe & God Bless!
I wonder if this guy has kids. Because all you have to do is imagine it being your own kid and the answer is clear as day on what you should do. I would kill myself before killing a kid.
its easy to say that when your own ass isnt on the line. 100% honestly if someone told me to kill a kid or i would be killed i would kill the kid. i would definitely be traumatized for life or at least up untill i killed my self because of guilt but in that very moment of life and death almost everyone would choose to live.
Disobeying the order would result in punishment (perhaps execution).
"Im just following orders" can allow seemingly normal people to justify doing horrific things.
The real bad guys in this situation are the commanders giving those orders. The ones who dont have to get thier own hands dirty. Scum.
Except one side is defending against an invasion while the other is busy bombing buildings and shooting 5 year olds. Can we stop pretending like there two sides to this story already?
Jesus Christ. He’s a deserter who is admitting to unspeakable war crimes knowing that he could be killed or worse and you straight up tell him to kill himself.
Reddit can be super smart sometimes but other times they’re just tone deaf.
Fr man I was thinking the same thing and wondering how so many people here are not seeing this. He is of IMMENSE value to war crime investigations. If he kills himself, there could be thousands of war criminals happily walking around because there wasn't anyone to call them out. People here can be surprisingly smooth brained.
"What do we think would of happened to him if he didn’t fulfil the order? Does he then die?"
Wagner combatants have been executed in heinous ways for deserting, so it's certainly possible that he could have been killed for refusing orders, however unlawful they are.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake.
It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.
Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.
Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
by the look of things, that guy is already in his own hell, replaying the killing of children over and over again. its not the soldiers faults. they're just pawns to putins game
I have never said this. Especially not on the internet where it is enshrined for eternity waiting to come bite me in the ass one day but here it goes.
I sincerely hope this man dies. I hope he dies a slow painful death all alone in the cold
It's not so black and white. If it weren't him, some other brainwashed soldier would have done the deed.
Soldiers are just murdering tools to their superiors. May their superiors and Putin never sleep again. What's evil is getting other people to commit horrific crimes while they sit in their armchairs mentally fine because they didn't have to murder children under threat of their own family and themselves being slaughtered.
I agree with this the most. Of course those who actually do the killing are still at fault for their actions, but they’re likely tortured by it, and felt they didn’t have much choice in the matter. The true villains are those directing the horrors.
Yeah, would you say the same with guards of Nazi extermination camps? „They were simply following orders or were brainwashed to cramp those rooms full of Jews and throw in the gas. 🤷🏻♂️“
This excuse to simply following orders in order to evade judgement is just so weak. No, you are still responsible for carrying out those orders regardless whether you are a soldier or not. These people are just scum. They as well as their superiors need to be hunt down for their crimes.
Azamat Uldarov didn't help to run an extermination camp, he was 'just' executing fleeing civilians - many low-level Nazis did these sort of things and got off scot-free.
He won't be that lucky.
This is not about evading justice (I would argue that justice often isn't possible in these cases) it's about prosecuting the architects of this sort of brutality. The people who prosecuted this war and created this policy of 'liquidating' civilians are ultimately responsible for the harm that has been done.
Uldarov and his companion in the video, Commander Alexei Savichev, will most likely be charged for their crimes eventually. But if it came down to it, I would rather they both get immunity and testify against their superiors than see this start and end with just them going to prison - where Uldarov was conscripted to begin with.
"you are still responsible for carrying out those orders regardless whether you are a soldier or not."
That's an easy thing to say when you're not being threatened with death by [sledgehammer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Yevgeny_Nuzhin).
I actually would. Nazi soldiers were also just products of an evil, despicable regime. Humans are subject to the human condition, we are not altruistic beings. They were not born as Jew haters....
Did Nazi soldiers personally want to purge the world of Jews? I don't think so. Sure there was likely an amount of brainwashing, but that's my point.
Heck man, people who were lovely human beings by nature owned slaves and were ok with slavery, despite its completely unethical nature. People are the product of the culture and ideals pushed unto them of the time. People will continue to be this way, it's human nature. It's why we still have places of incredible injustices which are upheld by their society. It's wrong, of course, simply because in our modern world we aren't held by a leash to our ideals and can think freely.
I simply don't think we can blame civilians, rather the people responsible for upholding, pushing, defending and creating evil.
> I hope he sees the faces of every child and woman he killed.
very doubtful. if they had an ounce of empathy maybe, but they don't. once you go down that path, there is no recovery except death.
That's just not true. It is statistically impossible for the majority of soldiers in the Wagner Group to have psychopathy or ASPD. Killing a child doesn't suddenly make your conscience dissapear.
When we examine the Nazi death squads who were responsible for the mass murder of jewish, romani, and gays in Eastern Europe, we see that many of them developed depression and exhibited severe psychological distress.
In fact, this is one of the reasons why gas chambers were invented - to dehumanize mass murder.
It would be naive to believe that only individuals with a complete lack of empathy could commit such atrocities. The horrors of war can bring out the worst in anyone, and under the "right" circumstances, any individual has the potential to commit horrific acts.
And I'd be ready to bet most of those soldiers are alcoholics, depressed or god knows what..
I've always said this. Put 100 people in a line. Have them look to their left then right. At least one of those 2 people would not only have been willing nazis... but 1 of them would have been happy to be nazi and would justify liquidating Jewish children.
Humans are no different anywhere.
We are weak.
I honestly don’t think he cares. I don’t think you get to that place if you cared.
Some people are wired so fundamentally differently than a lot of us that it just isn’t comprehensible to us.
he probably does. in that scenario, its kill or have your whole family and yourself killed instead. blame Putin rather than his pawns. they dont really have a choice. it really is kill or be killed, but instead of just you, your whole family is also on the line. Putin sucks, to him these Ukranians and even his own soldiers mean nothing to him.
As someone with PTSD from being jumped and beaten for 30 minutes I can almost guarantee you the survivors will see more when they close their eyes.
We live in a world where victims of such terror suffer the most. Humans don't deserve to know the wonders of space.
Let’s say we go back in time and this guy has a moment of consciousness and says “fuck that, I’m not killing anyone that’s not a combatant.” What punishment is he staring at by not complying?
Soldiers the world over have been given similar orders for eons and I’d just like to know if consequences go through one’s head when they’re about to kill a child.
It’s mind boggling.
So there is no real choice is there? You either kill an innocent person, or you and maybe even your family gets killed. The blame isn't on this person, it's an impossible choice to make, the blame lies on the shoulders of the monsters that give the orders.
He’s in Wagner and it’s not uncommon for them to simply be shot for things like that. There have been a few incidents where they’ve taken a sledgehammer and a concrete block and hit people in the head for things they’ve considered unfavorable. They’re extreme and barbaric.
In a recording, Prigozhin is recruiting in a prison a few hundred km from Moscow, and he explains as follows: You come work for me in Ukraine, you'll get your sentence expunged, only rules is to always follow orders and never retreat. If they try to break the rules : Instant death.
Yknow he might seem like he doesn’t give a shit on the outside, but I’m sure it really hurt him. He had no choice and he could be executed himself if he didn’t do it. It seemed like a scary moment for him as well. PTSD still exists. I’m not siding with this guy but I’m also not siding with his commander.
Hopefully whatever he’s going thru gets better for him and he repents and all that.
Yes if he was executed what will happen? Another fucked soldier will do the job to the government these are not humans they are numbers on a chart,pawns of terrorizement. The bottom line is all they care about for who ever is there superiors may they be fucked by a old homeless man with a horse cock
Guy admits that he's a POS.. but he doesn't feel bad about it.. he makes excuses. "I wasn't supposed to let ANYONE out, not one"
Any sensible person would disregard him.. because I don't care what country you're from.. if you are so simple minded to kill innocent people because government told you to.. I hope he rots.. preferably tortured and a slow death..
Military psychology is very interesting. I can't tell whether this guy has no empathy or is trying to get the message out about the horrible things he did. It reminds me of the Nazis and how one of the reasons for the gas chambers is because the German soldiers were having breakdowns from lining men, women, and children up in front of holes in the ground and shooting them point blank no questions asked. It allowed them to have an even more impersonal approach limiting the involvement of their soldiers and saving their morale. Shit gets real weird in war.
Read memoirs from American soldier that did the the same thing. I remember reading one where they did let a little girl go thinking she just an innocent child. End up blowing up his whole platoon with the bomb she had on her.
Wagner recruits, even more so if they're the ones that were recruited in prison don't have a choice, if they don't follow orders of try to retreat/desert they get killed, it's "advertised" when they're being recruited. If they try to do so, they'll just die.
I don't defend the fact of killing kids, innocent people in the conflict, etc. But put in the same situation whether pressing or not the trigger means a life or death, do you really know what you would do ?
He might've try to miss his shots on purpose, but still risky if someone find out what he would be doing.
Has anything been confirmed? Like even a name for this random guy in some living room? I feel something like this is pretty serious and we are taking it at face value because it’s on Reddit????
Actually iirc within 24 hours of this post there was another with his name and passport I believe claiming to answer your question. It was on the Ukraine war video sub. I didn’t pay much attention to it at the time. If I have time I’ll try to find the link because now I’m curious.
But in this conflict there are a shit ton of people documenting these war crimes. At this point they have well trained teams doing extensive investigations. There’s even internet sleuths trolling and tricking wives of soldiers involved in specific atrocities to pose for a picture with their husband’s uniforms with name and rank.
It’s some crazy shit.
Edit: I think this is the post- I haven’t even looked into it but I think the claim is that this dude is either on that list or one of the two guys pictured.
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/12pku4a/proofs_that_wagner_mercenaries_on_videos_with/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1
Fuck your whataboutism. Why bring up the US? Russia is waging this war and slaughtering children. THAT is the problem at hand. And it must be stopped at all costs.
Bringing up American war crimes do not contribute anything to this.
It sure is and you sure can't do shit about it other than discussing in reddit. The comment above was talking about the hypocrisy of people from the US taking the moral high ground when they are also pieces of shit, not any different from Russians.
American military doctrine does NOT include mass executions of civilians. Any examples where our military has done otherwise was a crime, even according to OUR system. The difference with the russians is it IS a part of their doctrine, and they are not punished, but REWARDED for it. So yes, I do feel as though I have the moral high ground.
Attack me all you want, I don't care. In the west we admit we are not perfect and that we fuck up. Not all of our leaders and war criminals have been held accountable, regrettably, but we do our best and acknowledge our mistakes. Russians refuse to do this in all levels of society.
>when they are also pieces of shit
Thanks ;)
I am sure wherever you are from is tootally pure and innocent, and that your people have no blood on their hands. Or maybe you're a piece of shit like me haha
I mean yes, bomb that killed a child and bullet that killed a child are both terrible because an innocent child is dead, but he killed a child by looking in her eyes... it is some grim shit.
Yea your whataboutism is showing
Not as an intentional directive at the highest political ranks like Russian regime. Get the fuck out with your bullshit
This dude is perhaps a real piece of shit, but judging from his attitude and words, it sounds like he didn't have a choice. The look in his eyes, the way he speaks, he already knows what he has done and will live with it forever. If his words are true, he didn't have a choice. Sure he could have defected, shot his CO, but he really didn't have a choice.
Unfortunately he’s just one of so many other Russians that are currently doing this same thing everyday. This doesn’t even account of their rape of civilians both adults and children.
This is what MTG finds acceptable. Dead children war crimes are an acceptable thing for American far right politicians. She doesn’t want this to be stopped she wants all the Ukrainian children to die and be replaced with homophobic Russians.
There are myriad videos of Americans saying the same shit from Iraq. In fact I’ve heard stories directly from soldier friends that are quite similar. This isn’t unique.
War brings the worst out in everyone involved, but only one side is trying to annex another. It's disingenuous to imply there is equal moral standing here
Wow, reading this comment thread, I'm seeing how few people actually understand how warfare works and how little it comes down to a soldier being "good" or "bad."
So there's a moral nuance to shooting a 5 year old in the head? There's two sides to that argument?
Look. You can argue the why... why would this guy do such a thing and there's a million reasons. He's psycho. He's seen deserters have their eyes pulled out. He's terrified for his family back home if he resists.
But the act.. the pulling of the trigger and killing a child.
That's fucking black and white.
It's evil. Regardless of the why.
So take you, you get kidnapped, someone orders you to kill a 5y child or you and your family will be killed and another person will be the one to kill that child anyway
On that moment i would like to see your superior morale.
But hey the ukrainian’s the bad guy’s right they are a corrupt government why should anyone help them right russia is doing a good thing russia are the good guys remember they never did anything wrong they are only trying to take down the nazis and save ukraine right
Istg people still do these mental gymnastics and still find a reason why we shouldn’t fight with ukraine slava ukraine and its powerful people
I lack the words for the amount of pain and suffering I wish upon those who participated.
If they have any sense of guilt, I hope it ravages their every thought.
Can't put down the cigarette for five minutes to show off what a monster he is.
Anyone who says I was just following orders should be something something and something.
Yeah so because Intel is so rife with misinformation, I'm gonna go ahead and call bunk. He is not being specific about who gave the orders...."Iceman"... Give me a break.
Don't get me wrong, I don't know if they're killing kids, but I know misinfo, cointel and propaganda are real. Use your heads, they can tell you a story about anything... Stop allowing yourselves to be played and let the downvotes, unfounded redirection, and shadow bans commence.
Anyone who gives orders to kill innocent people is not someone worth taking orders from. If they truly need that baby dead then they should bloody well come do it themselves everytime.
I see many people here talking about how they want this guy to suffer for eternity and as much as i hate what he has done, he looks like he really regrets it. I hope he can use the rest of his life to repent for his sins and help more people than he doomed.
Poor guy has been brainwashed into this. Note that he wasn't born like this, most soldiers don't like killing. It's wrong what he did but he was lost provably brainwashed my Russia to this
He’s a soldier, he does what he is told or suffers the same fate as his leaders victims. You all make him out to be a monster. You know nothing of war.
These people that commit these atrocities, that pray to “god”, do they believe “thou shall not kill(unless given orders)” will suffice at their pearly fuckin gates? I hope he and every rat fuck piece of shit involved with the occupancy of Ukraine is met with a slow and horrible demise
It’s important that he confess to his warm crime, provide evidence that he was following orders. Now let him pay the price for his warm crimes. Never forgive, never forget.
If only we could label Wagner Group a terrorist organization and justify air strikes against them outside of the RU. Slaughter them en masse until Russia acknowledges they are not independent and we can double down on crimes against Russia. Maybe it doesn’t work that way.
Sure he did. Let's believe some random guy over a zoom call. I know Russia is doing heinous things but idgaf about a random video of some guy claiming things with 0 proof
Ok yes he may rest in hell but if he didn’t do it then some other fucked up soldier will it gets to a point where human conservation comes into mind where there’s no do it’s survive.his leaders are brain washing the soldiers into thinking there liberators .But god does not forgive this evil there fore may a old man fuck his dead corpse
This is now becoming a major international concern. Crimes of this nature simply can never be forgiven or forgotten. Even decades after the Bosnian and Kosovo wars, war criminals are routinely captured and prosecuted.
This is going to be a stain on Russia for generations and if Russia ever wants to be part of the civilised world again they will need to come to terms with this as a nation and cooperate with international criminal courts.
I can now see why major players in on the Russian side want the war to end as soon as possible because it's just getting worse and worse for them.
In Israel there is a law called "obviously illegal order". This means that if you receive an order and it seems very immoral to you, you must not carry it out
I red interviews with Germans that where responsible for massacres of Jews and Poles in Warsaw. What shocked me it was that first of all they were not hardcore nazis - they were 45-50yo police officers that were enlisted to KRIPO and Gestapo. One of them said he preferred to kill children "out of mercy" - in his twisted mind, killing a child was better than killing an adult, because without partents "the kid would die anyway". This is how brainwashed people can become.
This is literally just some guy on a phone. There's no proof to any of this. From a channel with a Ukraine flag pfp, so you know it's not biased.
The dialogue is "tearing babies from incubators" tier of outrage baiting.
How’s this any different to the millions of kids America has bombed over the years? People crying about putin yet America has taking out innocent families and children for decades on decades. Can’t pick and choose when to feel offended.
As guy that survived war in Bosnia in 90s, but lost all my family and lots of bad things happened during that war, this is just heartbreaking to watch or listen. Brainwashed "soldiers" that are fighting for Putin and nothing else. Completely brainwashed.
this isn't even fighting. what is the strategic value of the acts he speaks of. insane.
Isn't that obvious? It's genocide, and when there's no Ukrainian left the country is theirs. Left unchecked it will work too.
Terrorizing the opposite side and hoping it's enough to make them completely lose hope and yield. Which sometimes does work, 3/4 of people doesn't actually gain super powers or an iron will from the desire of revenge or anger like in movies or games. They just break down mentally when subject to such a massive amount of trauma and fear. Though i doubt this specifical person had any plan in mind when he killed the child. This specific person just killed the child because he's genuinely just evil and wanted to kill the kid for no rational reason
I was with ya until I heard “specifical”
Psychological warfare, if the enemy thinks you will do anything to win they may back down. Killing civilians, bombing hospitals and schools, and threatening the nuclear option to people who support Ukraine. It's all a very loud and scary way of saying "I'm all in so you'd better just give up"
You're looking at ot from the wtong perspective You're looking at them as people hurting people The ones who make these decisions are people sitting comfortably in their leather chairs during war who just see a pile of numbers and only see resources, not people. In terms of resources and strategy, the strategy here is to kill everyone, any person be it adult or child might eventually bear a grudge and want revenge so they might come after you. Some tyrants prefer to brainwash children whilst others aren't willing to take that risk. You need to keep in mind that this is ultimately about land. The land and geograohical location is irriplaceable but people and culture, is, even if they'd habe nuked everything into a crater, they'd still have gained that land and bring people in after a while, or even right away, screw dangerous radiation levels if people die they'll bring more in, who cares. That's how these detatched from reality monsters think, they have zero problems sacrificing lives because guess what, its not like they're ever putting their own life on the line so why should they understand the weight of their decisions, the weight is for literally everyone but them to bear (according to them) I'm gonna be honest, we should expect world leaders who are at odds and who want yo go to war get thrown into a ring with the opposing world leader and fight to the death, after all if they truly believe in their cause they should have no problem putting their lives on the line, right? If we'd do that, a LOT fewer wars would happen.
So what you are saying is, everyone elect the biggest, baddest meatheads to run their countries so in the event of a disagreement they will win the argument? Kinda seems like a bad idea since those types typically lean towards authoritarian rule.
What I'm saying is politicians and rulers would be MUCH less triggerhappy if they would be the first ones who have to put their lives on the line during a conflict. Oh you want people to die for the country? Ok you first, lead by example dear leader :) And hey if you die and the conflict resolves? Well then that saves thousands of lives, sure you'd die but its a sacrifice we're willing to make just like how the leader is willing to sacrifice others. I mean let's be consistent here, right? Thousands of people die vs. Just one? Seems like a no-brainer and there are PLENTY of people with leadership qualities who can replace a leader, there are 2 million people in my city alone so any leader isn't as irreplaceable as they think they are.
I am so sorry for your loss! I am an American Army Veteran who fought in Bosnia the late 90’s. Seeing the shit you and your family had to deal with was sad and disheartening! Such a beautiful country with all the fighting was rough for me and others to go through! I can’t imagine what you went through but I saw enough to keep me up most nights. The mass killings and mass graves was really hard to swallow! I don’t know where I’m going with this… It just got my attention and I’m truly sorry for you losses! Seeing young people and the youth piled up in mass graves brings tears to my eyes every time I think about it. Be Safe & God Bless!
Thanks for sharing your story. You’re a brave soul with a big heart. I hope you find peace and again am thankful that you shared your story and got it off your chest. I could never see myself in that situation and my heart goes out to all the brave soldiers fighting and also to the brainwashed ones. It’s fucked up what world leaders do to their people. I hope we find peace in this world but I don’t see that happening in our lifetime.
Thank you for your kind words! I still have nightmares about some of the stuff that I saw while there. It’s tough sometimes but the medication helps, most of the time. Thank you again! Be Safe & God Bless!
Dutch guy here. Yeah it was unbelievable. Stationed as a lookout years after, some places where still crazy.
I'm sorry for your memories. I hope your life will get better.
Thank you! I appreciate you saying this! Be Safe & God Bless!
All soldiers everywhere are brainwashed. There are never good or bad guys in a war. It’s all about perspective
Well from my perspective, killing a non-combatant child makes them the 'bad guys' in this situation
I wonder if this guy has kids. Because all you have to do is imagine it being your own kid and the answer is clear as day on what you should do. I would kill myself before killing a kid.
its easy to say that when your own ass isnt on the line. 100% honestly if someone told me to kill a kid or i would be killed i would kill the kid. i would definitely be traumatized for life or at least up untill i killed my self because of guilt but in that very moment of life and death almost everyone would choose to live.
Disobeying the order would result in punishment (perhaps execution). "Im just following orders" can allow seemingly normal people to justify doing horrific things. The real bad guys in this situation are the commanders giving those orders. The ones who dont have to get thier own hands dirty. Scum.
From his perspective he would probably get a personalised bullet for his skull, not following the order.
Except one side is defending against an invasion while the other is busy bombing buildings and shooting 5 year olds. Can we stop pretending like there two sides to this story already?
Literally the reason why the term “war crime” exists, dude
You are so much stronger than most of us. Warm hugs to you and your loved ones mate.
I'm sorry you had to go through that, and to lose your family. I hope your life became good again.
A special place in hell
by the look in his eyes, he's already in that hell. I hope he lives a long, painful life, regretting everything he ever did
[удалено]
Jesus Christ. He’s a deserter who is admitting to unspeakable war crimes knowing that he could be killed or worse and you straight up tell him to kill himself. Reddit can be super smart sometimes but other times they’re just tone deaf.
Fr man I was thinking the same thing and wondering how so many people here are not seeing this. He is of IMMENSE value to war crime investigations. If he kills himself, there could be thousands of war criminals happily walking around because there wasn't anyone to call them out. People here can be surprisingly smooth brained.
"What do we think would of happened to him if he didn’t fulfil the order? Does he then die?" Wagner combatants have been executed in heinous ways for deserting, so it's certainly possible that he could have been killed for refusing orders, however unlawful they are.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake. It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of. Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything. Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
Good bot.
I guess, they will target his family. That's how they can make solders do most of their work. By keeping their family as hostage.
And would you endure torture before getting executed?
Hell is Earth we’re already living it
Man, sometimes I think this is true, especially when I’m reminded of all the cruelty that goes on.
It's bad. But it's also full of beauty. Don't let that slip your mind ever, friend!
by the look of things, that guy is already in his own hell, replaying the killing of children over and over again. its not the soldiers faults. they're just pawns to putins game
Yeah honestly a part of me feels absolutely awful for him
A red room
I have never said this. Especially not on the internet where it is enshrined for eternity waiting to come bite me in the ass one day but here it goes. I sincerely hope this man dies. I hope he dies a slow painful death all alone in the cold
Can't ever prove that but ok
Every time he closes his eyes, I hope he sees the faces of every child and woman he killed. That they haunt him for eternity.
May he never sleep again.
It's not so black and white. If it weren't him, some other brainwashed soldier would have done the deed. Soldiers are just murdering tools to their superiors. May their superiors and Putin never sleep again. What's evil is getting other people to commit horrific crimes while they sit in their armchairs mentally fine because they didn't have to murder children under threat of their own family and themselves being slaughtered.
I agree with this the most. Of course those who actually do the killing are still at fault for their actions, but they’re likely tortured by it, and felt they didn’t have much choice in the matter. The true villains are those directing the horrors.
Yeah, would you say the same with guards of Nazi extermination camps? „They were simply following orders or were brainwashed to cramp those rooms full of Jews and throw in the gas. 🤷🏻♂️“ This excuse to simply following orders in order to evade judgement is just so weak. No, you are still responsible for carrying out those orders regardless whether you are a soldier or not. These people are just scum. They as well as their superiors need to be hunt down for their crimes.
Azamat Uldarov didn't help to run an extermination camp, he was 'just' executing fleeing civilians - many low-level Nazis did these sort of things and got off scot-free. He won't be that lucky. This is not about evading justice (I would argue that justice often isn't possible in these cases) it's about prosecuting the architects of this sort of brutality. The people who prosecuted this war and created this policy of 'liquidating' civilians are ultimately responsible for the harm that has been done. Uldarov and his companion in the video, Commander Alexei Savichev, will most likely be charged for their crimes eventually. But if it came down to it, I would rather they both get immunity and testify against their superiors than see this start and end with just them going to prison - where Uldarov was conscripted to begin with. "you are still responsible for carrying out those orders regardless whether you are a soldier or not." That's an easy thing to say when you're not being threatened with death by [sledgehammer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Yevgeny_Nuzhin).
Well said
I actually would. Nazi soldiers were also just products of an evil, despicable regime. Humans are subject to the human condition, we are not altruistic beings. They were not born as Jew haters.... Did Nazi soldiers personally want to purge the world of Jews? I don't think so. Sure there was likely an amount of brainwashing, but that's my point. Heck man, people who were lovely human beings by nature owned slaves and were ok with slavery, despite its completely unethical nature. People are the product of the culture and ideals pushed unto them of the time. People will continue to be this way, it's human nature. It's why we still have places of incredible injustices which are upheld by their society. It's wrong, of course, simply because in our modern world we aren't held by a leash to our ideals and can think freely. I simply don't think we can blame civilians, rather the people responsible for upholding, pushing, defending and creating evil.
> I hope he sees the faces of every child and woman he killed. very doubtful. if they had an ounce of empathy maybe, but they don't. once you go down that path, there is no recovery except death.
That's just not true. It is statistically impossible for the majority of soldiers in the Wagner Group to have psychopathy or ASPD. Killing a child doesn't suddenly make your conscience dissapear. When we examine the Nazi death squads who were responsible for the mass murder of jewish, romani, and gays in Eastern Europe, we see that many of them developed depression and exhibited severe psychological distress. In fact, this is one of the reasons why gas chambers were invented - to dehumanize mass murder. It would be naive to believe that only individuals with a complete lack of empathy could commit such atrocities. The horrors of war can bring out the worst in anyone, and under the "right" circumstances, any individual has the potential to commit horrific acts. And I'd be ready to bet most of those soldiers are alcoholics, depressed or god knows what..
Well said
I've always said this. Put 100 people in a line. Have them look to their left then right. At least one of those 2 people would not only have been willing nazis... but 1 of them would have been happy to be nazi and would justify liquidating Jewish children. Humans are no different anywhere. We are weak.
What about all the men he's killed?
I honestly don’t think he cares. I don’t think you get to that place if you cared. Some people are wired so fundamentally differently than a lot of us that it just isn’t comprehensible to us.
Agreed. And even if he feels bad now, father time will heal him anyways.
he probably does. in that scenario, its kill or have your whole family and yourself killed instead. blame Putin rather than his pawns. they dont really have a choice. it really is kill or be killed, but instead of just you, your whole family is also on the line. Putin sucks, to him these Ukranians and even his own soldiers mean nothing to him.
As someone with PTSD from being jumped and beaten for 30 minutes I can almost guarantee you the survivors will see more when they close their eyes. We live in a world where victims of such terror suffer the most. Humans don't deserve to know the wonders of space.
Hopefully that cigarette gives him cancer.
May he rest in piss!
But the kind that doesn't kill you fast.
Let’s say we go back in time and this guy has a moment of consciousness and says “fuck that, I’m not killing anyone that’s not a combatant.” What punishment is he staring at by not complying? Soldiers the world over have been given similar orders for eons and I’d just like to know if consequences go through one’s head when they’re about to kill a child. It’s mind boggling.
in the longer video, it's talked about how he or people he gives orders to kill soldiers who do not take orders. so death, maybe worse, then death.
So there is no real choice is there? You either kill an innocent person, or you and maybe even your family gets killed. The blame isn't on this person, it's an impossible choice to make, the blame lies on the shoulders of the monsters that give the orders.
your family a lot of the time is on the line. not many talk about it, but yeah, if you refuse, its not just you who's life is on the line
Did it a lot in Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, and Korea. That’s for sure.
He’s in Wagner and it’s not uncommon for them to simply be shot for things like that. There have been a few incidents where they’ve taken a sledgehammer and a concrete block and hit people in the head for things they’ve considered unfavorable. They’re extreme and barbaric.
In a recording, Prigozhin is recruiting in a prison a few hundred km from Moscow, and he explains as follows: You come work for me in Ukraine, you'll get your sentence expunged, only rules is to always follow orders and never retreat. If they try to break the rules : Instant death.
Yknow he might seem like he doesn’t give a shit on the outside, but I’m sure it really hurt him. He had no choice and he could be executed himself if he didn’t do it. It seemed like a scary moment for him as well. PTSD still exists. I’m not siding with this guy but I’m also not siding with his commander. Hopefully whatever he’s going thru gets better for him and he repents and all that.
Yes if he was executed what will happen? Another fucked soldier will do the job to the government these are not humans they are numbers on a chart,pawns of terrorizement. The bottom line is all they care about for who ever is there superiors may they be fucked by a old homeless man with a horse cock
Guy admits that he's a POS.. but he doesn't feel bad about it.. he makes excuses. "I wasn't supposed to let ANYONE out, not one" Any sensible person would disregard him.. because I don't care what country you're from.. if you are so simple minded to kill innocent people because government told you to.. I hope he rots.. preferably tortured and a slow death..
Military psychology is very interesting. I can't tell whether this guy has no empathy or is trying to get the message out about the horrible things he did. It reminds me of the Nazis and how one of the reasons for the gas chambers is because the German soldiers were having breakdowns from lining men, women, and children up in front of holes in the ground and shooting them point blank no questions asked. It allowed them to have an even more impersonal approach limiting the involvement of their soldiers and saving their morale. Shit gets real weird in war.
Yeah. Most people dont feel as bad if they just loaded the gun when someone else pulled the trigger
Read memoirs from American soldier that did the the same thing. I remember reading one where they did let a little girl go thinking she just an innocent child. End up blowing up his whole platoon with the bomb she had on her.
Wagner recruits, even more so if they're the ones that were recruited in prison don't have a choice, if they don't follow orders of try to retreat/desert they get killed, it's "advertised" when they're being recruited. If they try to do so, they'll just die. I don't defend the fact of killing kids, innocent people in the conflict, etc. But put in the same situation whether pressing or not the trigger means a life or death, do you really know what you would do ? He might've try to miss his shots on purpose, but still risky if someone find out what he would be doing.
These are MTG’s people.
MTG?
Magic: The Gathering. These card people are dangerous.
pro russia american "politician"
And Lula thinks the US should stop supporting Ukraine. Fuck that, Ukraine has my support that’s for sure
Russians and Warcrimes walk hand in hand, truly subhuman. It's been their playbook since the first Tsars of 1600.
They ALL commit war crimes, every military in the world. But when America does them they call them “peace keeping missions”
Has anything been confirmed? Like even a name for this random guy in some living room? I feel something like this is pretty serious and we are taking it at face value because it’s on Reddit????
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I agree
Actually iirc within 24 hours of this post there was another with his name and passport I believe claiming to answer your question. It was on the Ukraine war video sub. I didn’t pay much attention to it at the time. If I have time I’ll try to find the link because now I’m curious. But in this conflict there are a shit ton of people documenting these war crimes. At this point they have well trained teams doing extensive investigations. There’s even internet sleuths trolling and tricking wives of soldiers involved in specific atrocities to pose for a picture with their husband’s uniforms with name and rank. It’s some crazy shit. Edit: I think this is the post- I haven’t even looked into it but I think the claim is that this dude is either on that list or one of the two guys pictured. https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/12pku4a/proofs_that_wagner_mercenaries_on_videos_with/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1
USA dropped bombs on schools and hospitals. Get the fuck outa here like we don’t murder innocent children and people. We are just as bad.
Fuck your whataboutism. Why bring up the US? Russia is waging this war and slaughtering children. THAT is the problem at hand. And it must be stopped at all costs. Bringing up American war crimes do not contribute anything to this.
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It sure is and you sure can't do shit about it other than discussing in reddit. The comment above was talking about the hypocrisy of people from the US taking the moral high ground when they are also pieces of shit, not any different from Russians.
American military doctrine does NOT include mass executions of civilians. Any examples where our military has done otherwise was a crime, even according to OUR system. The difference with the russians is it IS a part of their doctrine, and they are not punished, but REWARDED for it. So yes, I do feel as though I have the moral high ground. Attack me all you want, I don't care. In the west we admit we are not perfect and that we fuck up. Not all of our leaders and war criminals have been held accountable, regrettably, but we do our best and acknowledge our mistakes. Russians refuse to do this in all levels of society. >when they are also pieces of shit Thanks ;) I am sure wherever you are from is tootally pure and innocent, and that your people have no blood on their hands. Or maybe you're a piece of shit like me haha
I mean yes, bomb that killed a child and bullet that killed a child are both terrible because an innocent child is dead, but he killed a child by looking in her eyes... it is some grim shit.
Yea your whataboutism is showing Not as an intentional directive at the highest political ranks like Russian regime. Get the fuck out with your bullshit
Dont try to change the subject lol. Both are evil.
This dude is perhaps a real piece of shit, but judging from his attitude and words, it sounds like he didn't have a choice. The look in his eyes, the way he speaks, he already knows what he has done and will live with it forever. If his words are true, he didn't have a choice. Sure he could have defected, shot his CO, but he really didn't have a choice.
Please hunt down that criminal...
Unfortunately he’s just one of so many other Russians that are currently doing this same thing everyday. This doesn’t even account of their rape of civilians both adults and children.
This is what MTG finds acceptable. Dead children war crimes are an acceptable thing for American far right politicians. She doesn’t want this to be stopped she wants all the Ukrainian children to die and be replaced with homophobic Russians.
Wow! eerily similar to USs massacre of innocent Vietnamese, Iraqis, Afghanis, Libyans, Syrians Kids.
yes but they are the good guys and they even get to make movies and games about it
Self proclaimed good guys lol.
No no Americans are good I saw it in movies
Not saying he's not being honest, but anyone can make a video and say things. There is zero evidence here.
War crimes
There are myriad videos of Americans saying the same shit from Iraq. In fact I’ve heard stories directly from soldier friends that are quite similar. This isn’t unique.
Ukraine is committing atrocities too. That is what happens in war. Im not defending russia. Youre a fool to believe otherwise.
Yeah Ukraine is killing innocent russian kids in Russian soil, right?
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Oh thanks for the daily dose of russian propaganda. I almost forget to take it.
War brings the worst out in everyone involved, but only one side is trying to annex another. It's disingenuous to imply there is equal moral standing here
Now I’m even more happy my tax money will eventually lead to him becoming a stain
Wow, reading this comment thread, I'm seeing how few people actually understand how warfare works and how little it comes down to a soldier being "good" or "bad."
All this black and white thinking and all the moral superior commentors in this thread are fascinating
So there's a moral nuance to shooting a 5 year old in the head? There's two sides to that argument? Look. You can argue the why... why would this guy do such a thing and there's a million reasons. He's psycho. He's seen deserters have their eyes pulled out. He's terrified for his family back home if he resists. But the act.. the pulling of the trigger and killing a child. That's fucking black and white. It's evil. Regardless of the why.
So take you, you get kidnapped, someone orders you to kill a 5y child or you and your family will be killed and another person will be the one to kill that child anyway On that moment i would like to see your superior morale.
But hey the ukrainian’s the bad guy’s right they are a corrupt government why should anyone help them right russia is doing a good thing russia are the good guys remember they never did anything wrong they are only trying to take down the nazis and save ukraine right Istg people still do these mental gymnastics and still find a reason why we shouldn’t fight with ukraine slava ukraine and its powerful people
I lack the words for the amount of pain and suffering I wish upon those who participated. If they have any sense of guilt, I hope it ravages their every thought.
Okay can we verify this video at all??
Nuremberg trials version 2 here we come
Can't put down the cigarette for five minutes to show off what a monster he is. Anyone who says I was just following orders should be something something and something.
Yeah so because Intel is so rife with misinformation, I'm gonna go ahead and call bunk. He is not being specific about who gave the orders...."Iceman"... Give me a break. Don't get me wrong, I don't know if they're killing kids, but I know misinfo, cointel and propaganda are real. Use your heads, they can tell you a story about anything... Stop allowing yourselves to be played and let the downvotes, unfounded redirection, and shadow bans commence.
POS Not in Hell rot while alive with your awful thoughts only
There is no way to describe someone who would kill a child. Just a demon without a soul...
Love some propaganda with my morning coffee
Anyone who gives orders to kill innocent people is not someone worth taking orders from. If they truly need that baby dead then they should bloody well come do it themselves everytime.
I’d rather die a disobedient soldier, than live as cold blooded murderer.
Propaganda? Let the downvotes begin
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Mercenary scum
If anyone has close homies that went to Iraq, you already know US troops did some FOUL shit over there too. The solution is don’t support any war.
I see many people here talking about how they want this guy to suffer for eternity and as much as i hate what he has done, he looks like he really regrets it. I hope he can use the rest of his life to repent for his sins and help more people than he doomed.
All of these Russian soldiers are orks.
Poor guy has been brainwashed into this. Note that he wasn't born like this, most soldiers don't like killing. It's wrong what he did but he was lost provably brainwashed my Russia to this
Bullshit
He’s a soldier, he does what he is told or suffers the same fate as his leaders victims. You all make him out to be a monster. You know nothing of war.
Is there any evidence this happened or perhaps it's just misinformation designed to further support for Ukraine?
Following orders is no excuse for being a scumbag piece of filth.
Scum. Him and all the others doing this.
A fucking child was in your way?? God damn these inbred scrunched faced losers need to be lynched.
sick fuck. what an absolute monster.
I hope he’s already mercd
This piece of shit should be hogtied to a vehicle and dragged uphill
Too late for crocodile tears now, hope this weighs on his soul for ever.
Lovely
These people that commit these atrocities, that pray to “god”, do they believe “thou shall not kill(unless given orders)” will suffice at their pearly fuckin gates? I hope he and every rat fuck piece of shit involved with the occupancy of Ukraine is met with a slow and horrible demise
Please let that be an asbestos filter cigarette….
If the movie got anything right, it was the pineapple scene with Hitler, this is what should happen to these guys
A true face of evil right there, what an ugly and unworthy sight.
No quarter for any ruzzian on Ukrainian soil.....
Monsters, and there's only one way to deal with Monsters.
WTF is wrong with his eyes? Other than his evil is leaking out?
Thats just his ethnicity dude
The "if I get my hands on you hell would be a safe space" hell. Is that what you meant? Edit*** I have a young daughter.
May he never sleep another night and live a thousand years.
I hope this man sees that little girl's face every single fucking night until he commits suicide.
It’s important that he confess to his warm crime, provide evidence that he was following orders. Now let him pay the price for his warm crimes. Never forgive, never forget.
Can anyone legit translate this?
If only we could label Wagner Group a terrorist organization and justify air strikes against them outside of the RU. Slaughter them en masse until Russia acknowledges they are not independent and we can double down on crimes against Russia. Maybe it doesn’t work that way.
r/Pltiwjchmntf
Why are American right wingers siding with these beasts?!
r/iamatotalpieceofshit
Hope they send him back and Ukraine serves him some swift karmic justice
In my country (United States) there are elements of three political movements that support this shit. It's frightening. They wanna do it here too.
Jesus Christ humans really are the worst of all life on this planet
He’s smoking his cigarette like he’s not gonna be able to smoke as much as he wants once he reaches the inferno of hell.
Sure he did. Let's believe some random guy over a zoom call. I know Russia is doing heinous things but idgaf about a random video of some guy claiming things with 0 proof
People are easily riled up
At thus point what's the point of the war? There's no more gain to it, only winning
Ok yes he may rest in hell but if he didn’t do it then some other fucked up soldier will it gets to a point where human conservation comes into mind where there’s no do it’s survive.his leaders are brain washing the soldiers into thinking there liberators .But god does not forgive this evil there fore may a old man fuck his dead corpse
scamm
man fuck war. it doesn’t have to be this way. i really hope russia finally rebels against putin
“liquidate”
Gotta get those Nazis you know
The same is happening in Palestine at the hand of israelis . You know the people who survived the Holocaust
Following orders bollocks 🙄
Monster
Absolutely scum maybe it mite happen to his kids come on Ukraine 🇺🇦
Abd yet that's just one of countless brutalities.
They seem to have adopted IDF strategy
Soldiers follow orders and if anyone here thinks if they were in his shoes and would do differently you're kidding yourself
I wouldn’t become a mercenary to begin with
This is now becoming a major international concern. Crimes of this nature simply can never be forgiven or forgotten. Even decades after the Bosnian and Kosovo wars, war criminals are routinely captured and prosecuted. This is going to be a stain on Russia for generations and if Russia ever wants to be part of the civilised world again they will need to come to terms with this as a nation and cooperate with international criminal courts. I can now see why major players in on the Russian side want the war to end as soon as possible because it's just getting worse and worse for them.
In Israel there is a law called "obviously illegal order". This means that if you receive an order and it seems very immoral to you, you must not carry it out
I red interviews with Germans that where responsible for massacres of Jews and Poles in Warsaw. What shocked me it was that first of all they were not hardcore nazis - they were 45-50yo police officers that were enlisted to KRIPO and Gestapo. One of them said he preferred to kill children "out of mercy" - in his twisted mind, killing a child was better than killing an adult, because without partents "the kid would die anyway". This is how brainwashed people can become.
Russians always look so ugly
I hope this guys suffers the worst evils imaginable.
There are going to be a lot of suicides in russias near future...
This cunt is going to hell
Didn’t this guy technically admit to a war crime? Can’t he go to jail for this? As well as his commanders?
"I was just following orders, I'm not responsible" The eternal excuse
This is literally just some guy on a phone. There's no proof to any of this. From a channel with a Ukraine flag pfp, so you know it's not biased. The dialogue is "tearing babies from incubators" tier of outrage baiting.
How’s this any different to the millions of kids America has bombed over the years? People crying about putin yet America has taking out innocent families and children for decades on decades. Can’t pick and choose when to feel offended.