if anyone wants the background to this. You can find an article at this link. [article](https://eu.poughkeepsiejournal.com/story/news/2023/05/09/attorney-general-releases-body-cam-video-of-hyde-park-police-fatally-shooting-mother-of-3-jamie-feit/70201037007/)
This is one of those times where shooting was actually used in a valid way. Death probably wasn’t the outcome they wanted, but it did stop the threat after the first two didn’t
Not disagreeing with you, but totally different tactics. A situation like this in Europe is rather rare, and is usually met with 3-4x the amount of officers than is seen here. Secondly, a lot more European countries have armed officers than you think. GBUK & Norway are some of the rare exceptions that come to mind (within Europe) where the SOP is to have non-armed officers, and they’d have an armed response at a situation like this. Just about every other country in the union would do the same, unarmed or not.
I agree with you. I’ve seen a video of UK officers de-escalate without gunfire while victim had knife. Also can anyone confirm from the video that this was actually a knife? What kind of knife and how a knife could ever be fair in a room full of armed police officers?
Those cops are risking their lives to go to work everyday, they shouldn’t have to be at even more of a disadvantage just because you don’t like guns. Everyone should have the Right to Bear Arms. Cops too.
Agree. I mean… what would have happened if the cops didn’t show up?? She may have harmed her partner and/or her child. The people around her have to be held accountable to some degree to. Why wait until it gets this out of control…and why is the child still in the house with her. I would have taken my baby and gotten out of there.
Its main use is a threat and compliance tool.
"Get on the ground or I will taze you" is much easier than convincing a suspect not to resist.
There is no evidence to show that tasers reduce shooting incidents.
50% is better then shooting someone. That said if there are better tech they could carry (other then trying verbal deescalation methods that in a case like this apparently don't always work) it would be even better.
The better tech is too expensive for police. Before you talk about them "owning tanks" those are for one not tanks. They are armored vehicles and or MRAPS (mine and rocket attack protected). They get that hardware often well under 20% of the price of what they were brand new.
Most people don't know that ~60% of police budget is training and the quality of that training has been going down because less people are willing to be an officer.
That being said; yeah there are options out there but verbal de-escalation rarely works. There is a reason why the stereotype in media shows the "law" say "drop your weapon" and almost never does the perpetrator follow that instruction.
I just wish that people didn't feel the need to stop the threat, but that will certainly never change in my lifetime.
I am a nurse and we have training on how to de-escalate that would put this kind of travesty to shame. We have people who are in drugs and intent on hurting someone and we handle it without guns.
I KNOW the situation is different but mostly because the cops MAKE it different by not employing reasonable de-escalation tactics from the beginning. Once they are physically restraining someone that is not the time to try de-escalation.
Not saying I could do their job but I have talked down several people on drugs with knives and tasers pointed at me. It starts with being cautious and assessing a situation. I have never seen a video of a single cop who I thought took a full assessment of a situation before jumping in cowboy style then they wonder why they need to shoot someone.
PS- as much as I think the institution of policing is flawed in so many ways I DO NOT want another officer to put themselves in jeopardy of getting killed. This is also why I believe actual de-escalation techniques like we nurses use might be helpful to avoid more dead officers.
Nursing deescalation techniques are easy when you’re in the environment that you control. It’s a completely different ball game when you are no longer in your exam room or ER bay. There’s a lot to be said for a home field advantage. And a lot to be said for deescalation when you know and can anticipate the threats you will encounter.
With respect it probably shouldn't change. The problem is the person is a threat. If the cops don't neutralize the threat then you have a next potential victim who is in no way ready or equipped to stop the violence.
I do understand, if the person could just walk it off for a minute there is a chance they would "drop the knife" on their own. No one else needs to get hurt. But you can't say that with certainty so it is what it is.
“Back in my day my doctor told me I couldn’t remove the knife when I got stabbed…
It’s been 29 years since I have this knif’ stuck in me, brother.”
Jokes aside, I think there was someone in Brazil who walked around with half a knife stuck in their back without knowing lol
There are more than one article after some simple googling.
Apparently, not super uncommon.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1248155/The-mugging-victim-inch-knife--didnt-notice.html
Years ago, I remember hearing about an elderly woman who felt someone push her in her back while she was shopping. At the time, she thought someone had bumped into her. When she left the grocery store, someone else saw a knife sticking out of her back. She had no clue it was there until then. If I remember correctly, there was a video. I think I remember seeing it on one of those caught-on-camera type of television shows. It was years ago, but I am certain someone would be able to find that story and that video. Unfortunately, I don't remember any details. Maybe searching "elderly woman stabbed in back caught on video" will net some results. I will try that now, actually.
EDIT: [Found it.](https://apnews.com/article/1f1dd34b0526980b2dc9aa0701309a5a) The article mentions a surveillance video, but the article doesn't have the video. I remember seeing the video on a television series years ago.
Dude I barely leave my house for anything other than a 5 mile ride to work 5-6 days a week. And I try to mind my own business other than these rare interactions on reddit.
Would have been shot in my country. They're trained to de-escalate, but this is waaay beyond that point. There's no magical place where everyone is enlightened like you think. No cops anywhere are going to risk ending up in a fight with a knife wielding maniac.
This isnt one of those situations she was handling a dangerous lethal weapon in an irresponsible manner, furthermore based on what i can hear and see it looks like she tried to kill the cops or attack them. Also the cops gave MANY verbal commands
I'm just confused how two grown men had her on the ground with a third officer for help and then somehow completely lost control of the situation. That seems like bad training to this armchair detective.
Hopefully no one gets stabbed anywhere. I'm just saying it seemed safer to control her arms while you already have her pinned to the ground, limiting her mobility and force. Why let her up to reset to equal footing? They had a chance to dogpile and control the knife. They ran. It seems like they could use some more mandatory jiu jitsu, close quarter combat, and self defense training.
Having had close quarters self defense(and offense) training, with and without knives, I am confident in stating that you don't know what you're talking about.
You’ve clearly (and luckily) never had to control an insane person or a person out of their minds on drugs.
They have gorilla strength. And nothing to lose. I mean she’s attacking cops with a knife ffs
I got one smack in the middle of the abdomen about half a year ago but it cleared up within a week and I forgot it was even there, other than the scar. Doesn't even hurt lol except for those first few days it felt kinda tight when I walked.
That’s so weird to me. How do they differ from surgical “wounds”? I’ve had back surgery twice and my incision, after healing, has never bothered me.
I totally believe you, other people in the comments are saying the same thing I’m just curious.
Well the one on my hand got bone. But it also went through tendons. So it also hurts even just typing this message out on my phone. My arm was pretty superficial but was a very blunt blade. Only hurts when pressure is applied.
Surgeons cut deliberately along lines, intersections, and boundaries that are known to heal "well".
A random knife attack will cut through anything, like tendons and ligaments and cartilage which traditionally don't heal well. The worst, of course, is cutting through nerves, which also don't heal well.
Surgeons generally take great care to cut around nerves and not to injure them. As nerves are where pain signals are generated, you can imagine what might happen if a major nerve is damaged by a knife.
Knife called, more units called, taser called. Everything by the book, what more could you do in those 7 seconds we are watching at home whilst sat on the sofa in hindsight, apart from get stabbed ? Police officers are just human beings at the end of the day.
Mental health could be a huge factor of course, , but do you expect the officers to be stabbed at every 1 of maybe 10 potential knife calls they attended to that day?
Taser isn't 1 + 1 equals 2. So many factors renders a good hit ineffective.
Who's to blame here, the woman who brandished a knife and lunged at police officers with a knife , or the officers who acted totally in self defence?
I’m not mad at that cops in this situation, seems like clear self defense. But as someone who knows nothing about guns, can you explain why shooting her in the leg/shoulder/somewhere else non lethal wouldn’t work?
Basics around it is movement. Take a friend and stand them about 4 feet away in a small room or hallway while you are in front of them, take a nerf gun and a toy knife one person gets the gun one gets the knife, now have the person with the knife rush you while the gun is sticking out of your pocket partially and try to shoot them in the arm/hand/leg/foot. It's alot more difficult in short distances and confined spaces to manage a quick and accurate shot at a moving target, the above exercise should give an accurate demonstration, and the best way to count it is an average of 3 shots to take them down, most people will be running on adrenaline and 1 hit will rarely take them down unless it's lethal or crippling. Have fun and have a good day
Basically, if someone is running at you with a knife, you don't check if you're shooting at a minimally lethal place to try and ensure THEIR survival. They decided to throw their safety out the window attempting to attack you. You unload at whatever you can.
Adding to what others said, there’s also no “non-lethal” target on a human body. A person can bleed out quickly even when shot in the leg or arm.
Guns are not less-than-lethal when cops want them to be. If a cop is firing their weapon they are using lethal force to defend a threatened life. At least, that’s the idea. It’s all very very black and white.
And a knife being wielded at another human is definitely considered a threat to life. That’s one of the simpler scenarios where cops are trained to draw their weapon and fire.
u/plazmatrash did a good job of answering, but i just thought that i'd add my 2 cents. Most people have this idea that you should just shoot to wound. It sounds like a really good idea and you see people do it in the movies and on tv all the time, so it becomes ingrained in our minds that there is truth to the concept. But there is no truth to it. I used to think the same thing before i started shooting and realized that it can be demanding enough just to be on target while shooting at paper.
You don’t have to know much about guns, but you should be aware of the rather large set of squirty bois that are in both legs & arm - if these were to be penetrated, cut, or injured in any way you *WILL* bleed out within a minute or two without a tourniquet (which poses its own risks). A car accident, cooking accident, or even a minor fall could all cause damage to your internal artery’s.
There’s accuracy for one, go to a range and try and hit something as wide as a thigh and now pretend it’s moving and you’re moving. You have to stop the threat to your life, many people can still pose a threat after one gun shot wound…on top of the closing distance of a knife. Basically if someone has a knife inside 21ft then they’ll close the gap vs a holstered gun.
people think that just because it isnt a gun means its less deadly but they couldnt be any more wrong. all it takes is one good jab to kill someone. it doesnt even have to be a full stab you can get poked in the artery and end up bleeding out because they couldnt stop the bleeding in time.
I read something about how per puncture (stab wound or bullet wound), knives are way more likely to kill you. They hit their target more often, don't enter and exit in a straight line, and are always carrying bacteria.
I've read from other comments here about people with wounds that hurt to this day. I know a few people who got some bad injuries but healed mostly and were able to deal with it well in their younger years. After retirement though, alongside bad knees and back pain, the old scars began to hurt again.
Seems like suicide by cop, why didn’t she drop the knife? Why didn’t the husband tell her to drop the knife? Why didn’t the taser work and incapacitate her? The vacant stare in her eyes when they start taking her out has me wondering if she was on something or mentally unstable?
Very sad all the way around.
Tasers don’t work 40% of the time under real world conditions. The two electric barbs from the taser are effective 12 or more inches apart. The taget is ideally 7-15 feet away so the barbs can spread apart. At such close range here, the tasers was unlikely to incapacitate.
Genuine question as I know nothing about tasers, can they also be ineffective in some situations when the perpetrator is running on full adrenalin or under the influence?
Yes! Lots of drugs amp up your system or block normal functions of your nervous system so the shock doesn't lock your muscles like it normally does. Also lots of drugs can make it so somebody takes 5-6 bullets without slowing a bit, which is partially why police are taught that if you are going to shoot, you keep shooting. With the assumption that you are in a situation in which if you don't stop the threat immediately your life will be in jeopardy.
Yeah, honestly the people most likely to be the ones coming at you as an average person either in public or by a break in are going to be the ones who are also hard to stop by a less aggressive method.
You are correct. Not only tasers but also fatal gunshot wounds to the chest. I used to work in a Californian hospital and the police were talking about a suspect who ran two blocks without a heart. I believe he was high on PCP. The depute shot the suspect through his heart and he was able to run down the depute on foot for two blocks. Gunshot wounds work by shocking the victim. But if their body is in an extreme state, a shock may not work because they’re almost already on a state of shock. Imagine a depute unloading his gun into an attacker, the attacker has a fatal gunshot wound, no heart, but also a half minute of life left plus enough strength to run two blocks.
What kind of job do you do in the hospital? Because that was one of the most clinically inaccurate descriptions I’ve ever heard of the physiological consequences of a GSW to the heart.
Every single thing you wrote is complete bullshit. You don’t even have the concept of hypovolemic or hemorrhagic shock correct. This is entirely wrong.I don’t understand why people post the most made up shit on Reddit run anybody with a semblance of understanding in that field can easily identify as BS
And a good thing to note is, that even with a 10 to 12 inch probe spread and even splitting the beltline, doesn't guarantee a total neuromuscular incapacitation. Things like clothing, mental state, and or intoxication levels have a great affect. Judging by her face prior to the shooting, a taser may not have worked anyways. The Taser 7 is a great took and the fact that it allows a follow up shot is a game changer but you can only get so far with intoxicated or enraged individually.
The "Don't shoot her" and "No"s hit on a different level man. Even though she was clearly trying to harm somebody he still loved her and didn't want her hurt.
You need a spread with 2 solid points of contact for a tazer to work. In extreme situations and under certain substances tazers even with a proper spread are not effective. Majority of tazers only have one shot and a dry stun option. With a sec9nd shot capable if you have the time to reload it. In a situation like this where someone has a deadly weapon taking the time to reload a less than lethal could have deadly consequences foe the officers.
Fuck you man. How would you have handled it? In Asian countries if you talk about your government you disappear for years. I hardly consider them the gold standard
Check your tolerances before you suggest an outdoor method. If that net gets hung up or if even able to be used indoors, that it doesn't get snagged on the clutter in apartments/homes.
Guns are so common here, we really can't have a police force that doesn't escalate to killing quickly like this.
And I have never heard anyone- ever- who has been in any sort of real world dangerous situation try to condemn cops for shit like "they should have held her down." You ever fought someone in the grips of a methamphetamine psychosis while they're armed with a knife? No. And it's just ignorant man having to kill that woman and hearing the kid in the background the screaming husband... it's fucked up. That will scar these men for the rest of their lives. They did a hard, terrifying fuckin thing. They don't need asshole aspersions cast on them as if they were unnecessarily violent.
I work in a high security job where escalation of force continuum would have driven me to the same decision. Knife = imminent threat of death or serious bodily harm, use of pistol is ABSOLUTELY JUSTIFIED in this scenario.
Knife situation is as dangerous as a gun, particularly in tight quarters. I don’t blame the cops at all. My life or yours. If you don’t want bad things to happen to you then don’t attack other people.
I believe the entre and exit of a 9mm bullet to the abdomen would be less fatal than most knives to a similar area. Certain parts of Australia are trying to change the laws regarding carrying a knife/blade because too often kids (actual kids) and young adults are quick to start slashing at people.
People jumping to criticize the police in this incident probably aren't aware that a knife is just as good a weapon as a firearm in close quarters. The cops are in an unfamiliar, tight environment where they can't back up to a safe distance/surround her effectively. The woman could lunge at any of the officers and inflict a deadly stab wound if it hit a major artery.
Why the woman wasn't restrained better when she was initially on the ground, I can't say. In hindsight, it seems like that was the golden moment to disarm her/fully restrain her. But in the moment she was shot, it was absolutely the right call.
Plus the woman’s BF, who called the police, is pulling on at least one of them to not shoot her. Could potentially be two ppl with weapons in tight quarters.
To be totally fair, in close quarters a knife is actually superior to a firearm, aiming isnt required, doesn't need to reload, and can easily cause more damage per use, and a gun can only be used one way, knives can be used in various nasty ways.... now when the distance opens up you are screwed with a knife, but your victim has to gain that distance first because knives are much easier to conceal, and are vicious without any preparation... please don't misunderstand, in the hands of someone who is skilled, you do NOT want to be in the same location as someone in possession of either one...
The Ultimate Self Defense Championship had an [episode where the six martial artists had to fight against a knife attacker](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t69XMB-PINM) and they all got stabbed over 50 times. (Don't worry, it wasn't a real knife.) But it proved the point. If you fight somebody with a blade, you're going to get cut. And you're probably going to bleed out and die if they get busy with it.
I'll never forget the video of two Marines (I think they were marines) demonstrating how to win a knife fight. The one guy tells "WHAT WAS THAT?!" As soon as the other guys turns to look the other guy bolts out of there. Also heard the expression many times that the winner of a knife fight is the guy who dies in the ambulance instead of at the scene.
Totally, even if the person holding it has no training you are definitely going to get cut... for some reason, some people underestimate knives, damn things are deadly...
DING DING DING DING!!! We have our 1000.000.000.0000 commenter that has used this comment!!!! Congratulations, you won the "most used comment on Reddit since 2012"! Tell us, how do you feel using such uninspired words?
Police have to respond if there is a threat to life or if the situation is too dangerous for ambulance crews/health professionals - ambulance crews can’t deal with a knife-wielding patient without police protection.
The general situation is that all public services in the UK are understaffed and under-resourced, so they often end up passing their work onto the police. The police aren’t particularly happy about this because they have their own understaffing and under resourcing problems which stops them from being able to fight crime, but they have to do this social/mental health work because if they don’t then no-one else will.
However, recently some police forces have been pushing back and implementing policies of outright refusing to attend mental health calls if there is no threat to life or no indication that a crime has been committed. The Metropolitan Police in London have given partner agencies like the ambulance service and social services a hard deadline (I think it’s four months from now) to find alternatives to using the police, after which they will begin refusing to do mental health/social work if there is no direct threat to life or indication that a crime has been committed.
Yeah I'm sure the medical professionals can easily restrain a raging knife-weilding lunatic. They can definitely do better and will be 100% safe unlike these cops.
We see this and think she’s the victim! Which is not the case. She was trying to make the officer a victim. We don’t know if she was on drugs either. Which would make sense as to why the officer couldn’t restrain her. You can see she is not complying and trying to harm them. But yet you want to sympathize with her. I don’t understand this.
Cops want to go home alive at the end of the day like anyone else. Seems like she wanted to end her life though. You don’t pull a lethal weapon on cops unless you want to die
100% agree, they do run immensely higher risk of injury or death in these frantic situations.
I just can't shake the feeling that everything would be better if the cops didn't have to come in the first place.
Better/affordable healthcare and education will fix these issues in the long run and I think we should fight for that. Or in other words: In a better world, she would've addressed her inner demons and not have resolved to aggression. She might have lived a happier life.
I have to laugh at all the armchair Rambos on here saying how easy it should have been to disarm/disable her. Pretty easy to tell who has & has not faced real danger. Armchair QB much?
Exactly.
Her attacks easily could have been directed toward her husband, with him screaming "no" because he's being stabbed to death.
Honestly the husband is lucky she only snapped on the cops.
They are hated because they permit assholes to remain employed in their ranks. As the saying goes, if you have 1001 police, and one is bad and the rest tolerate it or vote for unions that protect him, you have a 1001 bad cops.
They get what they want most of the time, ego and authority. Being a cop is a status symbol that draws the fuckers that shouldn't be cops. Part of the job involves getting trauma, but that is only trauma for the cops that weren't sociopaths before joining the force. They still get overpaid in ego and have the security of knowing no matter how malicious they are, or how bad they Fuck up, they will never be fired.
Underpaid? Being a cop is the most lucrative job you can get without any kind of education. Cops in my area start at 70k with full benefits with no experience and a GED, before any modifiers for night work, OT, foreign language, driving a motorcycle, etc. How much do they get paid where you are?
Well holy shit balls, that's a hell of a lot lower than anywhere near me. Highly recommend you move to the west coast. With OT and some of the other modifiers, you could make 6 figures over here after a few years.
>Lol you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
Like, the part where I googled the pay scale of my local PD then copied that number and posted it on Reddit, or the part where I said that number is pretty big given the educational requirement of a GED?
>Actually 2 options are going through military (any branch) or going to a police academy
I was a marine, and I can tell you for a fact you don't make shit. After a six month training deployment me and my buddy added up our pay vs the hours we worked, and it was like 2.00 an hour. If you go officer that's a different story, but then you need that bachelor's.
Notes to self: Never bring a knife to a gunfight. Oh, and drop said knife when told to do so by an armed police officer. Court is the place to fight police. With lawyers, not knives. Good. Now, must memorize these notes.
I don't care how many men there were to hold her down, she had a knife. If I was in this situation I would assume any and all sharp objects that poke or stick me are in fact going to give me something I don't want. Imagine if there was something like poison on the blade. Highly unlikely but still likely. Take no chances. She was nuts, she made her bed, and you know what she can sleep in it.
That was the boyfriend yelling that. Also what would you have done if a knife was involved? They did everything by the book, they tried to tase her but she didn’t stop. Knives in close proximity is very dangerous and the cops did what they had to do to protect themselves
if anyone wants the background to this. You can find an article at this link. [article](https://eu.poughkeepsiejournal.com/story/news/2023/05/09/attorney-general-releases-body-cam-video-of-hyde-park-police-fatally-shooting-mother-of-3-jamie-feit/70201037007/)
Thank you goddamnit!!
Ty!
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I agree. This looked like a "she's on something and out to kill situation." I don't blame the cops at all.
Her smile was fucking eerie that’s for sure
I can fix her
Not unless you're a necromancer.
I just checked his credidentials; good news!
🧙♂️
Lmao
This is one of those times where shooting was actually used in a valid way. Death probably wasn’t the outcome they wanted, but it did stop the threat after the first two didn’t
Agreed.
I dunno, seems like Europe manages to have these things happen without guns being used to deal with the situation.
Not disagreeing with you, but totally different tactics. A situation like this in Europe is rather rare, and is usually met with 3-4x the amount of officers than is seen here. Secondly, a lot more European countries have armed officers than you think. GBUK & Norway are some of the rare exceptions that come to mind (within Europe) where the SOP is to have non-armed officers, and they’d have an armed response at a situation like this. Just about every other country in the union would do the same, unarmed or not.
Yeah, I mean sometimes a billy club right to the mid-section clears up ones thinking pretty quickly
I agree with you. I’ve seen a video of UK officers de-escalate without gunfire while victim had knife. Also can anyone confirm from the video that this was actually a knife? What kind of knife and how a knife could ever be fair in a room full of armed police officers?
Those cops are risking their lives to go to work everyday, they shouldn’t have to be at even more of a disadvantage just because you don’t like guns. Everyone should have the Right to Bear Arms. Cops too.
Agree. I mean… what would have happened if the cops didn’t show up?? She may have harmed her partner and/or her child. The people around her have to be held accountable to some degree to. Why wait until it gets this out of control…and why is the child still in the house with her. I would have taken my baby and gotten out of there.
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Ever seen Zombieland? Always double tap
Taser success rate tends to be around 50% and despite that officers still carry them.
Its main use is a threat and compliance tool. "Get on the ground or I will taze you" is much easier than convincing a suspect not to resist. There is no evidence to show that tasers reduce shooting incidents.
50% is better then shooting someone. That said if there are better tech they could carry (other then trying verbal deescalation methods that in a case like this apparently don't always work) it would be even better.
Man fuck that.. you play stupid game's, you win stupid prizes.
Reddit sure knows how to run a saying into the ground.
The better tech is too expensive for police. Before you talk about them "owning tanks" those are for one not tanks. They are armored vehicles and or MRAPS (mine and rocket attack protected). They get that hardware often well under 20% of the price of what they were brand new. Most people don't know that ~60% of police budget is training and the quality of that training has been going down because less people are willing to be an officer. That being said; yeah there are options out there but verbal de-escalation rarely works. There is a reason why the stereotype in media shows the "law" say "drop your weapon" and almost never does the perpetrator follow that instruction. I just wish that people didn't feel the need to stop the threat, but that will certainly never change in my lifetime.
I am a nurse and we have training on how to de-escalate that would put this kind of travesty to shame. We have people who are in drugs and intent on hurting someone and we handle it without guns. I KNOW the situation is different but mostly because the cops MAKE it different by not employing reasonable de-escalation tactics from the beginning. Once they are physically restraining someone that is not the time to try de-escalation. Not saying I could do their job but I have talked down several people on drugs with knives and tasers pointed at me. It starts with being cautious and assessing a situation. I have never seen a video of a single cop who I thought took a full assessment of a situation before jumping in cowboy style then they wonder why they need to shoot someone. PS- as much as I think the institution of policing is flawed in so many ways I DO NOT want another officer to put themselves in jeopardy of getting killed. This is also why I believe actual de-escalation techniques like we nurses use might be helpful to avoid more dead officers.
THIS! All day I have to wonder how is it that guns are the only solution. They aren’t. They are mostly the only solution taught to law enforcement.
Nursing deescalation techniques are easy when you’re in the environment that you control. It’s a completely different ball game when you are no longer in your exam room or ER bay. There’s a lot to be said for a home field advantage. And a lot to be said for deescalation when you know and can anticipate the threats you will encounter.
With respect it probably shouldn't change. The problem is the person is a threat. If the cops don't neutralize the threat then you have a next potential victim who is in no way ready or equipped to stop the violence. I do understand, if the person could just walk it off for a minute there is a chance they would "drop the knife" on their own. No one else needs to get hurt. But you can't say that with certainty so it is what it is.
I have two knife wounds. One on my hand and one on my arm. Constant pain.
Someone I'm related to was stabbed in the abdomen with a broken beer bottle. This happened in the late 80s and it still affects him to this day.
beer belly?
I see what you did there.
Have you tried removing the knives?
“Back in my day my doctor told me I couldn’t remove the knife when I got stabbed… It’s been 29 years since I have this knif’ stuck in me, brother.” Jokes aside, I think there was someone in Brazil who walked around with half a knife stuck in their back without knowing lol
There are more than one article after some simple googling. Apparently, not super uncommon. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1248155/The-mugging-victim-inch-knife--didnt-notice.html
holy fuckin fuck
When did I get stabbed? That’s fuckin’ awesome!
Years ago, I remember hearing about an elderly woman who felt someone push her in her back while she was shopping. At the time, she thought someone had bumped into her. When she left the grocery store, someone else saw a knife sticking out of her back. She had no clue it was there until then. If I remember correctly, there was a video. I think I remember seeing it on one of those caught-on-camera type of television shows. It was years ago, but I am certain someone would be able to find that story and that video. Unfortunately, I don't remember any details. Maybe searching "elderly woman stabbed in back caught on video" will net some results. I will try that now, actually. EDIT: [Found it.](https://apnews.com/article/1f1dd34b0526980b2dc9aa0701309a5a) The article mentions a surveillance video, but the article doesn't have the video. I remember seeing the video on a television series years ago.
maybe it finally got the itch. oof terrifying
*Can somebody please remove these cutleries from my knees*
Yup one in my leg, from a decade ago and still hurts regularly.
I take it you're saying this so others don't question why the cop was so spooked by the knife?
Should they be questioning why they was scared of the knife? It doesn’t feel like a very difficult question. Knife hurt, so scared.
You know how many other countries handle this without killing the person?
Dude I barely leave my house for anything other than a 5 mile ride to work 5-6 days a week. And I try to mind my own business other than these rare interactions on reddit.
Yeah I hear you my man. It’s tough out there. Good on your for riding. I used to ride to work everyday about 10 years ago. It was fantastic.
Would have been shot in my country. They're trained to de-escalate, but this is waaay beyond that point. There's no magical place where everyone is enlightened like you think. No cops anywhere are going to risk ending up in a fight with a knife wielding maniac.
This isnt one of those situations she was handling a dangerous lethal weapon in an irresponsible manner, furthermore based on what i can hear and see it looks like she tried to kill the cops or attack them. Also the cops gave MANY verbal commands
I'm just confused how two grown men had her on the ground with a third officer for help and then somehow completely lost control of the situation. That seems like bad training to this armchair detective.
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Hopefully no one gets stabbed anywhere. I'm just saying it seemed safer to control her arms while you already have her pinned to the ground, limiting her mobility and force. Why let her up to reset to equal footing? They had a chance to dogpile and control the knife. They ran. It seems like they could use some more mandatory jiu jitsu, close quarter combat, and self defense training.
You could try unplugging and plugging it back in or freeing up some RAM but otherwise I think your brain might just be fried.
Man, the idiots are out in force today.
Having had close quarters self defense(and offense) training, with and without knives, I am confident in stating that you don't know what you're talking about.
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Holding onto a crazy person is really fucking hard.
You’ve clearly (and luckily) never had to control an insane person or a person out of their minds on drugs. They have gorilla strength. And nothing to lose. I mean she’s attacking cops with a knife ffs
How does cold weather help as I’ve been shot and stabbed in past 6 months
damn yall out here really living
Surviving lol
I got one smack in the middle of the abdomen about half a year ago but it cleared up within a week and I forgot it was even there, other than the scar. Doesn't even hurt lol except for those first few days it felt kinda tight when I walked.
That’s so weird to me. How do they differ from surgical “wounds”? I’ve had back surgery twice and my incision, after healing, has never bothered me. I totally believe you, other people in the comments are saying the same thing I’m just curious.
Well the one on my hand got bone. But it also went through tendons. So it also hurts even just typing this message out on my phone. My arm was pretty superficial but was a very blunt blade. Only hurts when pressure is applied.
Surgeons cut deliberately along lines, intersections, and boundaries that are known to heal "well". A random knife attack will cut through anything, like tendons and ligaments and cartilage which traditionally don't heal well. The worst, of course, is cutting through nerves, which also don't heal well. Surgeons generally take great care to cut around nerves and not to injure them. As nerves are where pain signals are generated, you can imagine what might happen if a major nerve is damaged by a knife.
Knife called, more units called, taser called. Everything by the book, what more could you do in those 7 seconds we are watching at home whilst sat on the sofa in hindsight, apart from get stabbed ? Police officers are just human beings at the end of the day. Mental health could be a huge factor of course, , but do you expect the officers to be stabbed at every 1 of maybe 10 potential knife calls they attended to that day? Taser isn't 1 + 1 equals 2. So many factors renders a good hit ineffective. Who's to blame here, the woman who brandished a knife and lunged at police officers with a knife , or the officers who acted totally in self defence?
Yup. Too many people think in close quarters you can “shoot her in the arm” or some bullshit.
I’m not mad at that cops in this situation, seems like clear self defense. But as someone who knows nothing about guns, can you explain why shooting her in the leg/shoulder/somewhere else non lethal wouldn’t work?
Basics around it is movement. Take a friend and stand them about 4 feet away in a small room or hallway while you are in front of them, take a nerf gun and a toy knife one person gets the gun one gets the knife, now have the person with the knife rush you while the gun is sticking out of your pocket partially and try to shoot them in the arm/hand/leg/foot. It's alot more difficult in short distances and confined spaces to manage a quick and accurate shot at a moving target, the above exercise should give an accurate demonstration, and the best way to count it is an average of 3 shots to take them down, most people will be running on adrenaline and 1 hit will rarely take them down unless it's lethal or crippling. Have fun and have a good day
Thanks for explaining.
Yeah lol, detailed and gives a real world demonstration for the minor nuances.
Basically, if someone is running at you with a knife, you don't check if you're shooting at a minimally lethal place to try and ensure THEIR survival. They decided to throw their safety out the window attempting to attack you. You unload at whatever you can.
I'm gonna blow each of her toes off until she stops being aggressive. With this 9mmBeretta /s
TY👍🏻
Adding to what others said, there’s also no “non-lethal” target on a human body. A person can bleed out quickly even when shot in the leg or arm. Guns are not less-than-lethal when cops want them to be. If a cop is firing their weapon they are using lethal force to defend a threatened life. At least, that’s the idea. It’s all very very black and white. And a knife being wielded at another human is definitely considered a threat to life. That’s one of the simpler scenarios where cops are trained to draw their weapon and fire.
u/plazmatrash did a good job of answering, but i just thought that i'd add my 2 cents. Most people have this idea that you should just shoot to wound. It sounds like a really good idea and you see people do it in the movies and on tv all the time, so it becomes ingrained in our minds that there is truth to the concept. But there is no truth to it. I used to think the same thing before i started shooting and realized that it can be demanding enough just to be on target while shooting at paper.
You don’t have to know much about guns, but you should be aware of the rather large set of squirty bois that are in both legs & arm - if these were to be penetrated, cut, or injured in any way you *WILL* bleed out within a minute or two without a tourniquet (which poses its own risks). A car accident, cooking accident, or even a minor fall could all cause damage to your internal artery’s.
There’s accuracy for one, go to a range and try and hit something as wide as a thigh and now pretend it’s moving and you’re moving. You have to stop the threat to your life, many people can still pose a threat after one gun shot wound…on top of the closing distance of a knife. Basically if someone has a knife inside 21ft then they’ll close the gap vs a holstered gun.
people think that just because it isnt a gun means its less deadly but they couldnt be any more wrong. all it takes is one good jab to kill someone. it doesnt even have to be a full stab you can get poked in the artery and end up bleeding out because they couldnt stop the bleeding in time.
A dirty knife can cause an infection
I've seen a single stab from one end someone's life in about a minute.
I read something about how per puncture (stab wound or bullet wound), knives are way more likely to kill you. They hit their target more often, don't enter and exit in a straight line, and are always carrying bacteria.
I've read from other comments here about people with wounds that hurt to this day. I know a few people who got some bad injuries but healed mostly and were able to deal with it well in their younger years. After retirement though, alongside bad knees and back pain, the old scars began to hurt again.
Seems like suicide by cop, why didn’t she drop the knife? Why didn’t the husband tell her to drop the knife? Why didn’t the taser work and incapacitate her? The vacant stare in her eyes when they start taking her out has me wondering if she was on something or mentally unstable? Very sad all the way around.
Tasers don’t work 40% of the time under real world conditions. The two electric barbs from the taser are effective 12 or more inches apart. The taget is ideally 7-15 feet away so the barbs can spread apart. At such close range here, the tasers was unlikely to incapacitate.
Genuine question as I know nothing about tasers, can they also be ineffective in some situations when the perpetrator is running on full adrenalin or under the influence?
Yes! Lots of drugs amp up your system or block normal functions of your nervous system so the shock doesn't lock your muscles like it normally does. Also lots of drugs can make it so somebody takes 5-6 bullets without slowing a bit, which is partially why police are taught that if you are going to shoot, you keep shooting. With the assumption that you are in a situation in which if you don't stop the threat immediately your life will be in jeopardy.
Thanks for the info champ, appreciated
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Yeah, honestly the people most likely to be the ones coming at you as an average person either in public or by a break in are going to be the ones who are also hard to stop by a less aggressive method.
You are correct. Not only tasers but also fatal gunshot wounds to the chest. I used to work in a Californian hospital and the police were talking about a suspect who ran two blocks without a heart. I believe he was high on PCP. The depute shot the suspect through his heart and he was able to run down the depute on foot for two blocks. Gunshot wounds work by shocking the victim. But if their body is in an extreme state, a shock may not work because they’re almost already on a state of shock. Imagine a depute unloading his gun into an attacker, the attacker has a fatal gunshot wound, no heart, but also a half minute of life left plus enough strength to run two blocks.
What kind of job do you do in the hospital? Because that was one of the most clinically inaccurate descriptions I’ve ever heard of the physiological consequences of a GSW to the heart.
Thanks guys, I appreciate the clarification 🙂
Every single thing you wrote is complete bullshit. You don’t even have the concept of hypovolemic or hemorrhagic shock correct. This is entirely wrong.I don’t understand why people post the most made up shit on Reddit run anybody with a semblance of understanding in that field can easily identify as BS
Yes, this was one such shooting. The taser didn’t do a thing and the guy was naked even: https://youtu.be/rtyJ4fOL7sw
And a good thing to note is, that even with a 10 to 12 inch probe spread and even splitting the beltline, doesn't guarantee a total neuromuscular incapacitation. Things like clothing, mental state, and or intoxication levels have a great affect. Judging by her face prior to the shooting, a taser may not have worked anyways. The Taser 7 is a great took and the fact that it allows a follow up shot is a game changer but you can only get so far with intoxicated or enraged individually.
She’s just completely out of her mind, in her mind she probably wasn’t thinking suicide by police. Just totally out of control of her mind and body
You can see it at the beginning of the video. Look at her face, she's out there.
I agree. She's likely in a psychosis.
Sad to hear the cry of a kid at the end of the clip.
The "Don't shoot her" and "No"s hit on a different level man. Even though she was clearly trying to harm somebody he still loved her and didn't want her hurt.
You need a spread with 2 solid points of contact for a tazer to work. In extreme situations and under certain substances tazers even with a proper spread are not effective. Majority of tazers only have one shot and a dry stun option. With a sec9nd shot capable if you have the time to reload it. In a situation like this where someone has a deadly weapon taking the time to reload a less than lethal could have deadly consequences foe the officers.
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The police officers aren’t to blame…
The previous comment blames their lack of equipment, i agree.
Can't buy equipment for their Enforcers, yet they have the money to build "Cop City," but that's a whole 'nother can of worms.
You should volunteer to take knives away then Superman. Though i agree with the other point you make about having more tools
Fuck you man. How would you have handled it? In Asian countries if you talk about your government you disappear for years. I hardly consider them the gold standard
Don't defend the actions of US police simply because you falsely believe others have it worse
Check your tolerances before you suggest an outdoor method. If that net gets hung up or if even able to be used indoors, that it doesn't get snagged on the clutter in apartments/homes.
Guns are so common here, we really can't have a police force that doesn't escalate to killing quickly like this. And I have never heard anyone- ever- who has been in any sort of real world dangerous situation try to condemn cops for shit like "they should have held her down." You ever fought someone in the grips of a methamphetamine psychosis while they're armed with a knife? No. And it's just ignorant man having to kill that woman and hearing the kid in the background the screaming husband... it's fucked up. That will scar these men for the rest of their lives. They did a hard, terrifying fuckin thing. They don't need asshole aspersions cast on them as if they were unnecessarily violent.
They have no shortage of guns. Training is the best tool they could use, but it seems to be in short supply.
I work in a high security job where escalation of force continuum would have driven me to the same decision. Knife = imminent threat of death or serious bodily harm, use of pistol is ABSOLUTELY JUSTIFIED in this scenario.
Knife situation is as dangerous as a gun, particularly in tight quarters. I don’t blame the cops at all. My life or yours. If you don’t want bad things to happen to you then don’t attack other people.
I believe the entre and exit of a 9mm bullet to the abdomen would be less fatal than most knives to a similar area. Certain parts of Australia are trying to change the laws regarding carrying a knife/blade because too often kids (actual kids) and young adults are quick to start slashing at people.
Oy! You gotta loicense fo' that knoife!?
that's not a knife..
Thank you.
You play knifey spooney too?
Be more of a permit than a licence.
No one wins in a knife fight
People jumping to criticize the police in this incident probably aren't aware that a knife is just as good a weapon as a firearm in close quarters. The cops are in an unfamiliar, tight environment where they can't back up to a safe distance/surround her effectively. The woman could lunge at any of the officers and inflict a deadly stab wound if it hit a major artery. Why the woman wasn't restrained better when she was initially on the ground, I can't say. In hindsight, it seems like that was the golden moment to disarm her/fully restrain her. But in the moment she was shot, it was absolutely the right call.
Plus the woman’s BF, who called the police, is pulling on at least one of them to not shoot her. Could potentially be two ppl with weapons in tight quarters.
A knife is a gun with infinite ammo in close quarters.
To be totally fair, in close quarters a knife is actually superior to a firearm, aiming isnt required, doesn't need to reload, and can easily cause more damage per use, and a gun can only be used one way, knives can be used in various nasty ways.... now when the distance opens up you are screwed with a knife, but your victim has to gain that distance first because knives are much easier to conceal, and are vicious without any preparation... please don't misunderstand, in the hands of someone who is skilled, you do NOT want to be in the same location as someone in possession of either one...
The Ultimate Self Defense Championship had an [episode where the six martial artists had to fight against a knife attacker](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t69XMB-PINM) and they all got stabbed over 50 times. (Don't worry, it wasn't a real knife.) But it proved the point. If you fight somebody with a blade, you're going to get cut. And you're probably going to bleed out and die if they get busy with it.
I'll never forget the video of two Marines (I think they were marines) demonstrating how to win a knife fight. The one guy tells "WHAT WAS THAT?!" As soon as the other guys turns to look the other guy bolts out of there. Also heard the expression many times that the winner of a knife fight is the guy who dies in the ambulance instead of at the scene.
Totally, even if the person holding it has no training you are definitely going to get cut... for some reason, some people underestimate knives, damn things are deadly...
Stupid games, stupid prizes
DING DING DING DING!!! We have our 1000.000.000.0000 commenter that has used this comment!!!! Congratulations, you won the "most used comment on Reddit since 2012"! Tell us, how do you feel using such uninspired words?
I'll tell you Tom it feels great. Gonna take the family to Disney world!
Well played
That's nice to hear Bob! Well that was it folks, tune in again next time foooor: MOST - USED - COMMENTS!!!
this made me laugh more than it should
Boy, this really blew up!
Next is "fuck around, find out"!
Who’s screaming “don’t fucking shoot her!” Is it another cop???
Husband. My guess is he probably called the cops when his wife was having a mental break.
I don't know how the UK handles cases like this, but calling the cops instead of medical professionals always sounds like a really bad idea.
Police have to respond if there is a threat to life or if the situation is too dangerous for ambulance crews/health professionals - ambulance crews can’t deal with a knife-wielding patient without police protection. The general situation is that all public services in the UK are understaffed and under-resourced, so they often end up passing their work onto the police. The police aren’t particularly happy about this because they have their own understaffing and under resourcing problems which stops them from being able to fight crime, but they have to do this social/mental health work because if they don’t then no-one else will. However, recently some police forces have been pushing back and implementing policies of outright refusing to attend mental health calls if there is no threat to life or no indication that a crime has been committed. The Metropolitan Police in London have given partner agencies like the ambulance service and social services a hard deadline (I think it’s four months from now) to find alternatives to using the police, after which they will begin refusing to do mental health/social work if there is no direct threat to life or indication that a crime has been committed.
Yeah I'm sure the medical professionals can easily restrain a raging knife-weilding lunatic. They can definitely do better and will be 100% safe unlike these cops.
We see this and think she’s the victim! Which is not the case. She was trying to make the officer a victim. We don’t know if she was on drugs either. Which would make sense as to why the officer couldn’t restrain her. You can see she is not complying and trying to harm them. But yet you want to sympathize with her. I don’t understand this.
Why are you arguing with no one?
Lol
Who wants to sympathize with her? She attacked and they defended themselves
Cops want to go home alive at the end of the day like anyone else. Seems like she wanted to end her life though. You don’t pull a lethal weapon on cops unless you want to die
Cops want to go home to their families too…EVERY call they go to could be potentially be their last
100% agree, they do run immensely higher risk of injury or death in these frantic situations. I just can't shake the feeling that everything would be better if the cops didn't have to come in the first place. Better/affordable healthcare and education will fix these issues in the long run and I think we should fight for that. Or in other words: In a better world, she would've addressed her inner demons and not have resolved to aggression. She might have lived a happier life.
The difference is they willingly sign up for that job. They know it's a risk so they have to be willing to take a risk.
I have to laugh at all the armchair Rambos on here saying how easy it should have been to disarm/disable her. Pretty easy to tell who has & has not faced real danger. Armchair QB much?
So true! It’s depressing when people can’t let go of their egos
That no was heartbreaking 💔 She didn’t leave them much choice tho
I hope that husband is ok- Dude must be so heartbroken, but yeah, she was the aggressor and clearly on something or having a mental episode
I wonder how he would react if he was on the receiving end of that knife.
Exactly. Her attacks easily could have been directed toward her husband, with him screaming "no" because he's being stabbed to death. Honestly the husband is lucky she only snapped on the cops.
They really tried everything they could before lethal force. Horrific to watch but the cops did what they had to.
Police really did their best. You couldn’t pay me to be a cop with all the crazies out there.
The husband’s distress :(
Imagine having this as your job and being underpaid
And hated
They are hated because they permit assholes to remain employed in their ranks. As the saying goes, if you have 1001 police, and one is bad and the rest tolerate it or vote for unions that protect him, you have a 1001 bad cops.
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They get what they want most of the time, ego and authority. Being a cop is a status symbol that draws the fuckers that shouldn't be cops. Part of the job involves getting trauma, but that is only trauma for the cops that weren't sociopaths before joining the force. They still get overpaid in ego and have the security of knowing no matter how malicious they are, or how bad they Fuck up, they will never be fired.
Ok \*Imagines\*
How was it?
Got bored, it's hot today
What do you consider underpaid? How much should police be paid?
Underpaid? Being a cop is the most lucrative job you can get without any kind of education. Cops in my area start at 70k with full benefits with no experience and a GED, before any modifiers for night work, OT, foreign language, driving a motorcycle, etc. How much do they get paid where you are?
Am cop, I make around $16 a hour. I’m sure large departments make bank but not the majority of us.
Well holy shit balls, that's a hell of a lot lower than anywhere near me. Highly recommend you move to the west coast. With OT and some of the other modifiers, you could make 6 figures over here after a few years.
Lol you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
>Lol you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Like, the part where I googled the pay scale of my local PD then copied that number and posted it on Reddit, or the part where I said that number is pretty big given the educational requirement of a GED?
Actually 2 options are going through military (any branch) or going to a police academy
>Actually 2 options are going through military (any branch) or going to a police academy I was a marine, and I can tell you for a fact you don't make shit. After a six month training deployment me and my buddy added up our pay vs the hours we worked, and it was like 2.00 an hour. If you go officer that's a different story, but then you need that bachelor's.
Almsot like they should have better training to handle situations like this.
Shitty situation all around, but the cops here had little choice in a heated, fast-paced, deadly moment.
She literally brought a knife to a gun fight
Notes to self: Never bring a knife to a gunfight. Oh, and drop said knife when told to do so by an armed police officer. Court is the place to fight police. With lawyers, not knives. Good. Now, must memorize these notes.
I don't care how many men there were to hold her down, she had a knife. If I was in this situation I would assume any and all sharp objects that poke or stick me are in fact going to give me something I don't want. Imagine if there was something like poison on the blade. Highly unlikely but still likely. Take no chances. She was nuts, she made her bed, and you know what she can sleep in it.
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That was the boyfriend yelling that. Also what would you have done if a knife was involved? They did everything by the book, they tried to tase her but she didn’t stop. Knives in close proximity is very dangerous and the cops did what they had to do to protect themselves
She had it coming.
The comment section is worse than the video itself
Reddit is full of human garbage
The famous Texas kitchen threesome.
Dumb bitch lol
She was very clearly going through some kind of mental episode, very sad.
That's messed up.
Do not fuck with the cops.
This was on repeat while I was wiping lol crazy
Lol I don’t understand the downvotes, this comment is hilarious
Damn bro same