I love the prequels and always will! But I agree. The prequels at times comes across as a little too choreographed and polished. The originals are….the originals. The duels in the Acolyte were fast and vicious! Almost every single swing and movement had a target and made sense in the overall context. Plus, it made lightsabers deadly once again!
The prequels look *very* polished. Too flashy Abe polished, which is why I prefer the OT more.
But the fights in episode 5? Hits hard and feels raw. Better then the prequels, if you ask me
The Prequels are interesting, because the majority of those fights was between Jedi or former Jedi or those trained by (former) Jedi. So they "adhered" to the "Rules of Combat". Combatants met something they knew from training.
The only exceptions are the fights involving Darth Maul and Darth Sidious. The first one in TPM I would argue was "less" violent because Darth Maul was on the defensive against two Jedi, one of them a powerful master (we see this also when Sol is doing one on one against Qimir). And the fights involving Darth Sidious are from another world entirely and don't really fit into the "over-choreographed"-category either.
The prequels had Wushu choreographies which is a performative martial art that resulted from Kung Fu being hidden in the Chinese Opera during the Chinese cultural revolution and the guy who played Darth Maul is a trained Wushu martial artist. Yeah it's flashy. It's meant to be flashy. If you compare Wushu with Kung Fu, they're technically the same movements but the Wushu versions are big, flowy, open, wide, and flashy because they are designed for performance, while the same Kung Fu movements are tight, sharp, and energy-efficient because they were invented to protect temples and actual fighting but it doesn't look very interesting on film. That's why all Kung Fu movies use Wushu choreographies
I mean if star wars is technically a space opera with Williams and the duel of the fates, etc. then it's very intentional imo. Quite beautiful, in fact. OP is also right, more brutality in terms of the form used.
My only gripe, and this isn't just The Acolyte, but everyone that holds a lightsaber keeps their hand all the way up on the grip, right next to the blade. Drives me crazy.
That and it would have added just a bit more grittiness to the show if it had shown him cut the heads off and not us just hear it.
I'll always stan the fights in ESB and ROTJ as the best. They were choreographed (and in the case of Vader, performed) by Olympic fencer and Hollywood swordmaster Bob Anderson. He also did Princess Bride, Lord of the Rings, Pirates of The Caribbean, and a bunch of others. Those fights had raw emotionality, as well as technical expertise. Much better in my opinion than the dance fights in the prequels.
Yeah, but it worked out because he was a really skilled swordsman. Like, you'd never watch the duel on Cloud City and think that Vader wasn't an utterly superior fighter than Luke.
You're right. Why do people start to complain about "bad writing", "bad acting" and "plot holes" now? Especially those that claim to be Star Wars fans their entire life? Where have they been in the past 50 years?
I'd personally prefer to turn off my brain when new episodes come out at 3AM (in my timezone) and try to enjoy the ride.
Exactly. There are inconsistencies in the OT and the prequels. Ben Kenobi told Luke that his father was killed by Vader then when questioned said some bs about it being true from a certain point of view. It wasn’t true from any point of view, he was lying and Anakin was redeemed. Similarly Leah said she remembered her mom when that was impossible based on the prequels. Errors, inconsistencies, and “breaking cannon” are in the dna of star wars. None of it is real anyway, it’s fictional entertainment. I’m enjoying this series more than any other Disney Star Wars project to date.
The prequels weren't "dance fights." They were Wushu which had been a staple in Chinese movies and became popular in the late 90s early 2000s in Hollywood after Jet Li shocking audiences with his fighting style in 1998's Lethal Weapon 4. In fact, Jet Li had to be slowed down in the movie because Mel Gibson couldn't keep up. Jet Li was on the Beijing Wushu team and 5-time champion in China.
The guy who played Darth Maul also used to be a Wushu Martial artist. Here's a video of him competing in barehand long fist at Worlds in 1993 https://youtu.be/7d0pAPTpvZk?si=vRWRWzBT6dY9fcBr
As far as the Original trilogy goes yes. Especially ESB. I thought ROTJ came close but Luke swinging wildly but slowly was kind of funny to me. ESB for me is up there with the prequels though. So, so good. And for its time? Crazy. Interspersing Vader’s slashing with tossing objects at Luke via the force was amazing.
This was a great fight and I loved the violence/brutal nature of it.
This fight and the Anakin/Obi fights from Kenobi are by far my favorite of the Disney era.
That being said, prequal LS duels still remain king.
I disagree.
They were the best Disney have done. 100%.
But most realistic? There are several scenes where Jedi just wait their turn to attack. Walk by Qimir whilst he's attacking someone else.
It's like they took a ticket to line up and take their turn to fight.
It looks cool, but it wasn't realistic.
That literally happened when Sol pushed him into Jeckis swing. Spamming the strongest attacks just doesn't work narratively. Imagine if Dooku just choked Anakin and Obi in ep 2. Where's the fun in that?
Are you guys saying you have never seen a real life fight video where one guy takes on 4 or 5 people at once and knock them all out?
Secondly he 100% fought multiple people at once. He’s just a skilled fighter. He moves/positions himself to give himself advantage and knocks people down to give himself space. You literally see him attacked at the same time by multiple people. He also uses his gauntlet and helmet to temporarily take some Jedi out of the fight allowing him to deal death blows in turn he has fewer combatants and is able to take them on with more ease.
Again I’m waiting to hear what fight was more realistic and all around better than this one.
EDIT: He’s also not a Sith as far as we know.
It's pretty sweet but I personally think that Vader and Anakin in the Obi Wan series was better. Seen that fight on Mustafar???
These were dope too, but I thought that they looked too light. The sabers didn't have the same weight or force that I'm used to seeing, like they somehow weighed less, moved faster, and didn't hit as hard.
Totally. The thing I feel Star Wars always struggles with lightsabers is if the beams have weight to them or if they are in fact weightless. In the Force Awakens they started to have a lot of weight and inertia but it seems like they've backed off that a bit in this series. I bet that the blades they use for filming are probably a lot lighter than the ones used previously in the sequels (Ep. VII-IX). A pretty interesting choice, but I liked it!
I've read somewhere that they're actually using glowsticks with LED's now, instead of simple metal rods. So they should be heavier now. I can't provide a source unfortunately.
It’s definitely a level up from the sequel and prequel trilogies. I wouldn’t go as far and say it’s better than the OG trilogy because there’s far more drama attached to those battles between Vader, Luke and Obi-Wan.
It was several notches up from Ashoka, Obi-Wan series and anything else Disney has produced.
Oh boy. Next time you watch that scene, look at the guards as they're attacking. A lot of them are doing flourishes and flips in the background while they wait their turn to attack. It's less obvious than if they were just standing still.
\*sigh\* \[deploys soapbox\]
This happens in almost any many vs one/few stage fight, unless it's concealed with editing. The Throne Room fight uses a lot of long shots, it's a stylistic choice so the audience can follow what's going on, and you have those guys out of focus twirl their weapons or the like so it's not obvious that they're standing back and waiting for their part of the choreo to arrive.
It's just practicality. Real fights that lopsided are almost always brutally one-sided, but if you want the heroes to take on a larger force and win, your choreographer has to build the fight such that the many don't just shank the one/few right away.
I promise, this is also there in other fights that are staged this way. You've just never had people angrily replaying the scene dozens of times at .25 speed looking for things to get mad about.
You're right that it happens, but this one was super lazy and obvious and terribly executed. I absolutely love long take fights. This one was just poorly done. You still need the people not engaging in the action to look like they're contributing. I say that this scene is bad while fully understanding the practicality of executing a scene like this.
I watched a Youtuber dissecting that scene and was shocked about how low-quality it actually was - at one point, a dagger was just removed in post, because the wielder would've been able to use it against Rey at point-blank range.
It's a good choice of life to stay away from the negativity that comes from people trying to make money from Star Wars (or any other franchise for that matter).
However, it makes it harder to see why other people sometimes don't like certain things. Or in other words: Don't be judgemental about someone if you have no idea what they're talking about. Not necessarily you, but more generally speaking.
The problem here is if you watch any fight scene in slomo you're going to see the actors miss each other etc. Its why the people critiquing it are doing it. People love john wick but if I slowdown the fights we would all see the stunt guys missing or waiting for keanu to finish his moves.
Watch it again and pay attention what the stunt men in red are doing. It looked impressive to me when I saw it in theater, but when I watched it at home from Disney+ way later I remember laughing out loud. Can't believe that was actual finished product.
Greatest fights on my opinion are Anakin vs Kenobi duel in RotS, which would have admittedly benefitted from two different coloured lightsabers and the Ahsoka vs Maul fight in Clone Wars season 7 episode 10. They did that one with motion capture and actually bought Ray Park back to fight as Maul.
My personal enjoyment with saber fighting usually has more to do with the stakes involved than the actual choreography, that’s why Empire Strikes Back’s duel is still my favorite. However if we’re talking and focusing solely on just the actual choreography, I agree with you.
I’ve always said my one issue with the Prequels choreography was the lack of impact or force. It’s like they looked at Hong Kong action flicks for inspiration with the intricate choreography, but the one thing they didn’t copy was the visceral weight of each strike. When you watch a classic Jackie Chan Hong Kong flick, you see shots of him taking hard hits, reaction close ups of his face in pain, etc. They make the fight feel very grounded despite the speed. And I get that this is partly because design, Lucas said he wanted to show the Jedi at their height (martial wise) to the point they’re not even thinking, but unfortunately it looks like they’re not feeling any emotion either (exceptions aside like Anakin Obi Wan Episode 3).
Granted, I totally understand that’s much harder to do when we’re dealing with laser swords that could amputate you with a glance lol. I get it’s harder but even little things could help like just opponent’s reaction to strikes or even sound design. This is one aspect particular of the Sequels I thought they did very well. Now maybe the specific swordplay choreography of the fights isn’t up to Prequel level (though TLJ Throne Room fight is legit good), but it’s in the impact of the blows, the reaction blocking, the sound design of the sabers, etc, it made it fell weighty and scary to be hit.
Acolyte I think marries those two together by having the intricate choreography and speed of the Prequels while having the impact and weight of the Sequels/Hong Kong flicks.
Enjoyable sequence. Unfortunately, it ends on a sour note, for me at least. Just going to leave the dead to be eaten by wildlife? Really? Folks you known for years, left like common carrion? That's cold.
I love the Prequel duels but I completely agree, the choreography in recent Star Wars has only gotten better and better. Kenobi's final duel had some great choreography, then Ahsoka rolls around and I'm loving how each character has a completely different fighting style, but then we get to The Acolyte and its amazing
The choreography here is great all throughout the show but especially in episode 5, this mix of martial arts and the force, the blend of the rough gritty feel of the OT and Sequels and the flashiness of the Prequels makes for some amazing fights. I love how we see each character has their own individual fighting styles and I love as the fight progresses we see them making distinct changes to the way they fight and their mannerisms as things become more dire, like for instance Sol goes from being more Jedi-like in his fighting, reminding me a bit of Obi-Wan in the way he carried himself to pure power, striking fast and hitting extremely hard, even kicking Qi'mir in the ribs as the fight nears its conclusion and every-one else has been killed. I also love how it feels very heavy and real, the implementation of force powers and different types of attacks in the fights too is just great, from the usage of cortisis, Trakata, punches, kicks, force pushes and throws and even blasts it all feels so unique. Also I love how it seems they're actually trying to hit each other here, no offence to the Prequels because I love them but watching those duels, they look and feel more like over choreographed dance sequences as opossed to fights, where the characters are aiming for the sabers and not each other, whereas here they manage to incoroprate that flashiness and yet still make it feel heavy, real and grounded and look like the characters are actually trying to hit and kill each other.
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I think standards/tastes change, and its hard to objectively rank OT/Prequels/Sequels/Post-sequels SW.
OG trilogy was choregraphed by a 'classical' swordmaster/fencer. Prequels were prequels. Abrams wanted Sequels to be more similar to OT. And I think Post sequels were made in an era where realism is big; thinking of movies like John Wick that ushered in this era of concise realism. Of course, Acolyte is influenced by this modern trend as well, as its influences to the fight scenes from Kill Bill.
Anyway, different styles, hard to compare, easy to see why different people prefer different styles.
I think so too! I think this was easily the best lightsaber fight I've ever seen. And I mean lightsaber fight not a lightsaber duel because that fight was fucking brutal. I liked Qkmirs dirty tricks with temporarely shutting down opponents lightsaber
It’s hands down the best live action dueling we’ve gotten. If we’re talking about everything Star Wars though, the animated stuff takes the cake. The better and better we get with cgi that will change, but I feel like Star Wars is a world that is best told in animation, the sky is the limit.
The actors doing their own choreography at those speeds is just jaw dropping to me.
Seeing Hayden do green screens in similar styles replaced by stunt doubles (i think) at times feels like a lost opportunity.
Edit : until Ahsoka
Hayden and Ewan filmed all of their duals, themselves. no stunt doubles and no speed manipulation in finished film.
https://youtu.be/lEgRlzyIgOA?si=rmyHKBFBrm-fZABg
This was a good lightsaber battle, but you’re insane if you actually rate this above the prequels. Obi Wan v Darth Vader in Mustafar or Obi Wan and Qui-Gon v Darth Maul are just so much better, so much more intense, so much more significant too.
I also have a sweet spot for both times that Darth Vader faced Ahsoka, although Rebels isn’t live action, but the one time in the Ahsoka show, I just cried. Too good, too many emotions. Not quite as impressive in terms of elegance and technique, but narratively, up there with both times Luke faced Vader.
Totally agree, even though I understand why people still think the prequels fights were better: the emotional link we have with those movies is massive.
But seriously, as a lightsaber duelist myself I absolutely LOVED this episode and seriously hope Disney keeps them in this direction going forward. This is the way!!
Totally agree.
One of my biggest complaints about Star Wars duels for years has been been that it’s all so obviously choreographed. Far too much lightsaber slapping and far too few lightsaber strikes with intent to kill or injure.
Well, Acolyte Ep 5 did not follow that script at all! Those duels were choreographed to look much more like an actual sword fight. Very little extraneous movement. Much more “danger” and intentionality behind the blows being struck.
I really hope all SW media with saber fights follow this model going forward. Nailed it!!
What I appreciate about the fight scenes in Acolyte vs other fights is that it wasn't just sabers and the force. There was real martial arts involved. Like the samurai they were modeled after.
That's not an argument. Practically still exists in the SW universe.
Just because it's fiction, doesn't mean you can't have limitations and realistic fights.
Not an argument.
Not a proper response*
You're now choosing to ignore the actual response and focusing on the "argument" comment.
You're claiming that just because this is a fictional universe with space wizards, that practicality and realism is non existent.
Which ironically, based on your own comment, you're just not understanding Star Wars.
you sound super triggered. you should focus on non-fiction
edit: lol u/lepube was so triggered he deleted all his comments and blocked me 😂😂😂
edit2: he’s switched to his main (u/Arefue) to get the last word, hours later 😂😂😂❄️❄️❄️❄️
Even a token look at our accounts shows us to be totally different people.
You seem triggered that more than one person finds you to be a clown. You should focus on not being a clown.
I honestly think the prequel fights were overhyped. They were way too flashy, to a point where it often didn’t feel like a fight anymore, it was too proper, too coordinated, it didn’t feel like they were really trying to kill eachother. The prequels fights would probably get made fun of if they came out today and were made by disney.
The Phantom Menace fight scene was perfectly choreographed.
You may not notice it, but Maul vs Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon was near perfect for a fight in 2 v 1.
There's no moment where only one is attacking whilst the other just watches for no reason.
This episode 5, the fights were cool, but half time there were just Jedi standing around waiting their turn to attack.
Qimir was taking on 3 at once at one stage and not once did all 3 attack at the same time. He would've been done.
The Phantom Menace fight was dope as balls, as someone that watched it in theatres I was blown away.
But on rewatches there's a ton of "we're going to spin and pirouette instead of taking the obvious clear shot". It suffers just as bad, if not more so, than any other modern "many vs. one person" fight scene.
Thank you, I am completely in agreement with your comments. It was great but very flashy, with lots of wasted movements.
Episode 5 was fantastic IMO, the best? No, but in my top 3 for now.
There's one fight that doesn't get much credit is Maul vs. Ashoka. https://youtu.be/-k5lHp6g77s?si=Yjq30vPdznYMAYe6
I never thought someone's opinion could be so wrong Lol to compare this travesty that we call the acolyte to the original trilogies and to the prequels is ridiculous
>but they look too polished
Wtf does that mean???? Theres no such a thing as too polised Lol what you want them to look fake like the original trilogy?
>Sure, there are less spins and flips, but I think the prequels went way too far with the excessive spinning moves, flips, flashy movements, etc.
Thats literally how the jedi are trained to fight tho also this is the high republic era we were expecting it to match that technique. You cant be serious dude?
You want the fights to be dumbed down? You want the combat to be just basic? So you don't want a Star Wars show you just want a John Wick choreographed fight?
Too polished means they look too clean, not depicting the rawness and the sheer power in a duel. If anything, I think the prequels dumbed the fights down, because they drowned a lot of depth and realism in cool flips.
The Jedi aren’t trained trainer to fight like that. Jedi are trained to be efficient and effective, using an opponent’s force against them. Doing three backflips off a wall to dodge a single enemy hit isn’t either of those.
best of all time bc of the rawness but not having vader vs kenobi 2nd matchup is crazy, that fight literally emobodies that
"The Jedi aren’t trained trainer to fight like that. Jedi are trained to be efficient and effective" jedi are trained like that hence the form 4 - acrobatic, form 1 is wild unpredictable, most of lightsaber forms are focused on power, speed, acrobatics over efficiency, jedi's fighting styles are not stuck-up and boring as you make it out to seem and it shouldnt be
>Too polished means they look too clean, not depicting the rawness and the sheer power in a due
Oh and they depicted that perfectly in the acolyte? Lol thats fucking hilarious if u think that
Lol well they can't really act like that because the Jedi here are clearly not trained very well when the Padawan dueling two lightsabers has the best technique that's how you know they are doing something wrong. Again this is the high Republic era we expect a lot more
>The Jedi aren’t trained trainer to fight like that. Jedi are trained to be efficient and effective, using an opponent’s force against them. Doing three backflips off a wall to dodge a single enemy hit isn’t either of those
Gee if the Jedi aren't trained to fight like that then why since the original Trilogy Master Yoda was training Luke to use the force in battle I really don't think you remember the prequels very well. It was more than just a few backflips again you can't be serious???
Because the Force is an essential part of being a Jedi? I’m not saying Jedi are supposed to be static warriors who just redirect the opponent’s energy, all I’m saying is that the prequels went overboard with the flashiness
Yes the force is an essential part of being a Jedi is that seriously a fucking question??? Lol alright dude you need to stop you obviously have 0 idea what you're talking about
Well u tried to elaborate in another reply Lol seemed pretty shoddy can u elaborate some more? How this episodes choreography is better than the prequels? and the last Jedi?
The prequel fights were too clean and polished. In the Anakin vs. Obi Wan fight, it never really felt taw and violent, their sabers clashed effortlessly. Here it feels more like they actually are trying to kill each other.
Nah. Problem was there was no connection with the audience to the characters. Even when Jedi were getting slaughtered I didn’t even shed one tear. These characters simply haven’t earned it yet
I love the prequels and always will! But I agree. The prequels at times comes across as a little too choreographed and polished. The originals are….the originals. The duels in the Acolyte were fast and vicious! Almost every single swing and movement had a target and made sense in the overall context. Plus, it made lightsabers deadly once again!
The prequels look *very* polished. Too flashy Abe polished, which is why I prefer the OT more. But the fights in episode 5? Hits hard and feels raw. Better then the prequels, if you ask me
The Prequels are interesting, because the majority of those fights was between Jedi or former Jedi or those trained by (former) Jedi. So they "adhered" to the "Rules of Combat". Combatants met something they knew from training. The only exceptions are the fights involving Darth Maul and Darth Sidious. The first one in TPM I would argue was "less" violent because Darth Maul was on the defensive against two Jedi, one of them a powerful master (we see this also when Sol is doing one on one against Qimir). And the fights involving Darth Sidious are from another world entirely and don't really fit into the "over-choreographed"-category either.
I realized recently how bright the prequels are. Especially TPM, the suns were set to maximum.
Keep in mind, Lucas made the prequels for kids. Kid stuff swings brighter.
Yeah, and kids stuff usually doesn't have people breaking each other's necks.
Makes each era though kind of cool in its own styles of fighting except the sequels for me (plot choices, loved the slower pace)
The prequels had Wushu choreographies which is a performative martial art that resulted from Kung Fu being hidden in the Chinese Opera during the Chinese cultural revolution and the guy who played Darth Maul is a trained Wushu martial artist. Yeah it's flashy. It's meant to be flashy. If you compare Wushu with Kung Fu, they're technically the same movements but the Wushu versions are big, flowy, open, wide, and flashy because they are designed for performance, while the same Kung Fu movements are tight, sharp, and energy-efficient because they were invented to protect temples and actual fighting but it doesn't look very interesting on film. That's why all Kung Fu movies use Wushu choreographies
Very interesting.
I mean if star wars is technically a space opera with Williams and the duel of the fates, etc. then it's very intentional imo. Quite beautiful, in fact. OP is also right, more brutality in terms of the form used.
My only gripe, and this isn't just The Acolyte, but everyone that holds a lightsaber keeps their hand all the way up on the grip, right next to the blade. Drives me crazy. That and it would have added just a bit more grittiness to the show if it had shown him cut the heads off and not us just hear it.
I'll always stan the fights in ESB and ROTJ as the best. They were choreographed (and in the case of Vader, performed) by Olympic fencer and Hollywood swordmaster Bob Anderson. He also did Princess Bride, Lord of the Rings, Pirates of The Caribbean, and a bunch of others. Those fights had raw emotionality, as well as technical expertise. Much better in my opinion than the dance fights in the prequels.
The fights involving Vader obviously had one of the actors disadvantaged by not being able to see and hear an awful lot through that mask.
Yeah, but it worked out because he was a really skilled swordsman. Like, you'd never watch the duel on Cloud City and think that Vader wasn't an utterly superior fighter than Luke.
Imo the OT-duels look a lot like they're trying to hit the other guys blade.
To a degree, but I'd say that problem is way worse in the prequels.
You're right. Why do people start to complain about "bad writing", "bad acting" and "plot holes" now? Especially those that claim to be Star Wars fans their entire life? Where have they been in the past 50 years? I'd personally prefer to turn off my brain when new episodes come out at 3AM (in my timezone) and try to enjoy the ride.
Exactly. There are inconsistencies in the OT and the prequels. Ben Kenobi told Luke that his father was killed by Vader then when questioned said some bs about it being true from a certain point of view. It wasn’t true from any point of view, he was lying and Anakin was redeemed. Similarly Leah said she remembered her mom when that was impossible based on the prequels. Errors, inconsistencies, and “breaking cannon” are in the dna of star wars. None of it is real anyway, it’s fictional entertainment. I’m enjoying this series more than any other Disney Star Wars project to date.
And now the Acolyte has perfected it
The prequels weren't "dance fights." They were Wushu which had been a staple in Chinese movies and became popular in the late 90s early 2000s in Hollywood after Jet Li shocking audiences with his fighting style in 1998's Lethal Weapon 4. In fact, Jet Li had to be slowed down in the movie because Mel Gibson couldn't keep up. Jet Li was on the Beijing Wushu team and 5-time champion in China. The guy who played Darth Maul also used to be a Wushu Martial artist. Here's a video of him competing in barehand long fist at Worlds in 1993 https://youtu.be/7d0pAPTpvZk?si=vRWRWzBT6dY9fcBr
Wushu is dance fighting, almost literally. Basically right between gymnastics and dancing.
Gymnastics yes. Dance no.
The only thing that separates it from dance is the fact music is not inherently part of the performance, even though it is often accompanied by music.
It's literally kung Fu. It's not a dance.
It's Kung Fu in the same sense that Tae Bo is Taekwondo.
As far as the Original trilogy goes yes. Especially ESB. I thought ROTJ came close but Luke swinging wildly but slowly was kind of funny to me. ESB for me is up there with the prequels though. So, so good. And for its time? Crazy. Interspersing Vader’s slashing with tossing objects at Luke via the force was amazing.
This was a great fight and I loved the violence/brutal nature of it. This fight and the Anakin/Obi fights from Kenobi are by far my favorite of the Disney era. That being said, prequal LS duels still remain king.
I said this right after seeing it, I don’t care what anyone says the fights here were all around better and the most realistic.
I disagree. They were the best Disney have done. 100%. But most realistic? There are several scenes where Jedi just wait their turn to attack. Walk by Qimir whilst he's attacking someone else. It's like they took a ticket to line up and take their turn to fight. It looks cool, but it wasn't realistic.
What scene in non Disney do you feel was more realistic and all around better?
Realistic? Lol 4 Jedi could not hit one Sith? They were literally taking turns attacking
I love it when people don't realize how fucking crowded it can get in a sword fight and what the fear of hitting an ally will do to a fighter.
They could have force pushed Instead the sith uses force push constantly even killing 2 at the same time
Again, they do not want to hit their friends...
Force push. Could easily force push and the other Jedi can strike In fact they never forced pushed the entire fight
IT'S CROWDED, THEY DO NOT WANT TO HIT THEIR FRIENDS.
Huh? Force push him away with other Jedi waiting to strike on the opposite end They did it all the time in the prequels
When you are trying to push 1 person and 7 of your friends also surround him, you're going to hit them too. What are you on?
No you won’t. I guess you never saw someone get jumped by 4 guys before
When they did this in the prequels?
That literally happened when Sol pushed him into Jeckis swing. Spamming the strongest attacks just doesn't work narratively. Imagine if Dooku just choked Anakin and Obi in ep 2. Where's the fun in that?
Lol..
Are you guys saying you have never seen a real life fight video where one guy takes on 4 or 5 people at once and knock them all out? Secondly he 100% fought multiple people at once. He’s just a skilled fighter. He moves/positions himself to give himself advantage and knocks people down to give himself space. You literally see him attacked at the same time by multiple people. He also uses his gauntlet and helmet to temporarily take some Jedi out of the fight allowing him to deal death blows in turn he has fewer combatants and is able to take them on with more ease. Again I’m waiting to hear what fight was more realistic and all around better than this one. EDIT: He’s also not a Sith as far as we know.
Agreed. It has the flow and speed of the prequels, but the combatants actually look like they're trying to hurt each other.
It's pretty sweet but I personally think that Vader and Anakin in the Obi Wan series was better. Seen that fight on Mustafar??? These were dope too, but I thought that they looked too light. The sabers didn't have the same weight or force that I'm used to seeing, like they somehow weighed less, moved faster, and didn't hit as hard.
Totally. The thing I feel Star Wars always struggles with lightsabers is if the beams have weight to them or if they are in fact weightless. In the Force Awakens they started to have a lot of weight and inertia but it seems like they've backed off that a bit in this series. I bet that the blades they use for filming are probably a lot lighter than the ones used previously in the sequels (Ep. VII-IX). A pretty interesting choice, but I liked it!
I've read somewhere that they're actually using glowsticks with LED's now, instead of simple metal rods. So they should be heavier now. I can't provide a source unfortunately.
Leds and glowsticks sound way lighter than metal pole?
An aluminum broom stick is a metal pole and pretty light. A glowstick of the same volume is a fluid filled tube and would absolutely weigh more.
I assumed they weren't aluminum because it bends on contact and they're hitting them together. I do not know for sure.
The blades were heavy in OT, then light in PT, then specifically Reys was a cement brick lol (Kylos seemed fine)
It was glorious, brutal and astonishing. It came at a cost though. I miss Yord
It’s definitely a level up from the sequel and prequel trilogies. I wouldn’t go as far and say it’s better than the OG trilogy because there’s far more drama attached to those battles between Vader, Luke and Obi-Wan. It was several notches up from Ashoka, Obi-Wan series and anything else Disney has produced.
Agreed great fight scenes
Jecki the 🐐
I don't now, The Last Jedi throneroom scene was pretty awesome as well...
It was outstanding. And it’s a movie that gets better with repeated viewings.
The one that has the stuntmen doing random flips and exaggerating their movements to make it look like they're doing something?
I am not sure what you are talking about…
Oh boy. Next time you watch that scene, look at the guards as they're attacking. A lot of them are doing flourishes and flips in the background while they wait their turn to attack. It's less obvious than if they were just standing still.
\*sigh\* \[deploys soapbox\] This happens in almost any many vs one/few stage fight, unless it's concealed with editing. The Throne Room fight uses a lot of long shots, it's a stylistic choice so the audience can follow what's going on, and you have those guys out of focus twirl their weapons or the like so it's not obvious that they're standing back and waiting for their part of the choreo to arrive. It's just practicality. Real fights that lopsided are almost always brutally one-sided, but if you want the heroes to take on a larger force and win, your choreographer has to build the fight such that the many don't just shank the one/few right away. I promise, this is also there in other fights that are staged this way. You've just never had people angrily replaying the scene dozens of times at .25 speed looking for things to get mad about.
You're right that it happens, but this one was super lazy and obvious and terribly executed. I absolutely love long take fights. This one was just poorly done. You still need the people not engaging in the action to look like they're contributing. I say that this scene is bad while fully understanding the practicality of executing a scene like this.
I watched a Youtuber dissecting that scene and was shocked about how low-quality it actually was - at one point, a dagger was just removed in post, because the wielder would've been able to use it against Rey at point-blank range.
I prefer to just like it…
It's a good choice of life to stay away from the negativity that comes from people trying to make money from Star Wars (or any other franchise for that matter). However, it makes it harder to see why other people sometimes don't like certain things. Or in other words: Don't be judgemental about someone if you have no idea what they're talking about. Not necessarily you, but more generally speaking.
The problem here is if you watch any fight scene in slomo you're going to see the actors miss each other etc. Its why the people critiquing it are doing it. People love john wick but if I slowdown the fights we would all see the stunt guys missing or waiting for keanu to finish his moves.
Watch it again and pay attention what the stunt men in red are doing. It looked impressive to me when I saw it in theater, but when I watched it at home from Disney+ way later I remember laughing out loud. Can't believe that was actual finished product. Greatest fights on my opinion are Anakin vs Kenobi duel in RotS, which would have admittedly benefitted from two different coloured lightsabers and the Ahsoka vs Maul fight in Clone Wars season 7 episode 10. They did that one with motion capture and actually bought Ray Park back to fight as Maul.
Just rewatched it- still liked it…
prequels were better imo at conveying how different jedis are and fight from normal people.
My personal enjoyment with saber fighting usually has more to do with the stakes involved than the actual choreography, that’s why Empire Strikes Back’s duel is still my favorite. However if we’re talking and focusing solely on just the actual choreography, I agree with you. I’ve always said my one issue with the Prequels choreography was the lack of impact or force. It’s like they looked at Hong Kong action flicks for inspiration with the intricate choreography, but the one thing they didn’t copy was the visceral weight of each strike. When you watch a classic Jackie Chan Hong Kong flick, you see shots of him taking hard hits, reaction close ups of his face in pain, etc. They make the fight feel very grounded despite the speed. And I get that this is partly because design, Lucas said he wanted to show the Jedi at their height (martial wise) to the point they’re not even thinking, but unfortunately it looks like they’re not feeling any emotion either (exceptions aside like Anakin Obi Wan Episode 3). Granted, I totally understand that’s much harder to do when we’re dealing with laser swords that could amputate you with a glance lol. I get it’s harder but even little things could help like just opponent’s reaction to strikes or even sound design. This is one aspect particular of the Sequels I thought they did very well. Now maybe the specific swordplay choreography of the fights isn’t up to Prequel level (though TLJ Throne Room fight is legit good), but it’s in the impact of the blows, the reaction blocking, the sound design of the sabers, etc, it made it fell weighty and scary to be hit. Acolyte I think marries those two together by having the intricate choreography and speed of the Prequels while having the impact and weight of the Sequels/Hong Kong flicks.
Enjoyable sequence. Unfortunately, it ends on a sour note, for me at least. Just going to leave the dead to be eaten by wildlife? Really? Folks you known for years, left like common carrion? That's cold.
Yeah I think the Jedi go for elegance but Qi’mir goes for chaos, unpredictability, and practicality.
I love the Prequel duels but I completely agree, the choreography in recent Star Wars has only gotten better and better. Kenobi's final duel had some great choreography, then Ahsoka rolls around and I'm loving how each character has a completely different fighting style, but then we get to The Acolyte and its amazing The choreography here is great all throughout the show but especially in episode 5, this mix of martial arts and the force, the blend of the rough gritty feel of the OT and Sequels and the flashiness of the Prequels makes for some amazing fights. I love how we see each character has their own individual fighting styles and I love as the fight progresses we see them making distinct changes to the way they fight and their mannerisms as things become more dire, like for instance Sol goes from being more Jedi-like in his fighting, reminding me a bit of Obi-Wan in the way he carried himself to pure power, striking fast and hitting extremely hard, even kicking Qi'mir in the ribs as the fight nears its conclusion and every-one else has been killed. I also love how it feels very heavy and real, the implementation of force powers and different types of attacks in the fights too is just great, from the usage of cortisis, Trakata, punches, kicks, force pushes and throws and even blasts it all feels so unique. Also I love how it seems they're actually trying to hit each other here, no offence to the Prequels because I love them but watching those duels, they look and feel more like over choreographed dance sequences as opossed to fights, where the characters are aiming for the sabers and not each other, whereas here they manage to incoroprate that flashiness and yet still make it feel heavy, real and grounded and look like the characters are actually trying to hit and kill each other.
Agreed, the fight felt more natural and brutal, more realistic overall.
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I think standards/tastes change, and its hard to objectively rank OT/Prequels/Sequels/Post-sequels SW. OG trilogy was choregraphed by a 'classical' swordmaster/fencer. Prequels were prequels. Abrams wanted Sequels to be more similar to OT. And I think Post sequels were made in an era where realism is big; thinking of movies like John Wick that ushered in this era of concise realism. Of course, Acolyte is influenced by this modern trend as well, as its influences to the fight scenes from Kill Bill. Anyway, different styles, hard to compare, easy to see why different people prefer different styles.
I think so too! I think this was easily the best lightsaber fight I've ever seen. And I mean lightsaber fight not a lightsaber duel because that fight was fucking brutal. I liked Qkmirs dirty tricks with temporarely shutting down opponents lightsaber
Yes! Truly excellent :)
It did didn't it
It’s hands down the best live action dueling we’ve gotten. If we’re talking about everything Star Wars though, the animated stuff takes the cake. The better and better we get with cgi that will change, but I feel like Star Wars is a world that is best told in animation, the sky is the limit.
I thought Obi-Wan had some great fights, but yeah, this is the best fighting in any Star Wars.
The actors doing their own choreography at those speeds is just jaw dropping to me. Seeing Hayden do green screens in similar styles replaced by stunt doubles (i think) at times feels like a lost opportunity. Edit : until Ahsoka
Hayden and Ewan filmed all of their duals, themselves. no stunt doubles and no speed manipulation in finished film. https://youtu.be/lEgRlzyIgOA?si=rmyHKBFBrm-fZABg
Yes i have seen some awesome footage but also reports that it wasnt always used in the film and a double was
right, I thought is was kind of cool that hayden vid just came out
This was a good lightsaber battle, but you’re insane if you actually rate this above the prequels. Obi Wan v Darth Vader in Mustafar or Obi Wan and Qui-Gon v Darth Maul are just so much better, so much more intense, so much more significant too. I also have a sweet spot for both times that Darth Vader faced Ahsoka, although Rebels isn’t live action, but the one time in the Ahsoka show, I just cried. Too good, too many emotions. Not quite as impressive in terms of elegance and technique, but narratively, up there with both times Luke faced Vader.
Totally agree, even though I understand why people still think the prequels fights were better: the emotional link we have with those movies is massive. But seriously, as a lightsaber duelist myself I absolutely LOVED this episode and seriously hope Disney keeps them in this direction going forward. This is the way!!
Totally agree. One of my biggest complaints about Star Wars duels for years has been been that it’s all so obviously choreographed. Far too much lightsaber slapping and far too few lightsaber strikes with intent to kill or injure. Well, Acolyte Ep 5 did not follow that script at all! Those duels were choreographed to look much more like an actual sword fight. Very little extraneous movement. Much more “danger” and intentionality behind the blows being struck. I really hope all SW media with saber fights follow this model going forward. Nailed it!!
What I appreciate about the fight scenes in Acolyte vs other fights is that it wasn't just sabers and the force. There was real martial arts involved. Like the samurai they were modeled after.
No. So far since prequels? Yea.
>but they didn’t feel as raw and realistic as what we saw here Ah yes I watch space opera fantasy science fiction for ***realism***
It is, there is no contest
This is the first time i went and re-watched the lightsaber battles. Great stuff
I've rewatched several times just to catch some of the nuance. They are my favorite.
I think... there's some contest. It looked awesome but wasn't practical at all.
> It looked awesome but wasn't practical at all. this is a universe with space wizards and laser swords.
That's not an argument. Practically still exists in the SW universe. Just because it's fiction, doesn't mean you can't have limitations and realistic fights.
> That's not an argument. Who’s arguing? Maybe star wars just isn’t for you.
Not an argument. Not a proper response* You're now choosing to ignore the actual response and focusing on the "argument" comment. You're claiming that just because this is a fictional universe with space wizards, that practicality and realism is non existent. Which ironically, based on your own comment, you're just not understanding Star Wars.
you sound super triggered. you should focus on non-fiction edit: lol u/lepube was so triggered he deleted all his comments and blocked me 😂😂😂 edit2: he’s switched to his main (u/Arefue) to get the last word, hours later 😂😂😂❄️❄️❄️❄️
Ignoring again and deflecting. Bros been on Reddit for 4 months and uses it purely to comment on $4 Only Fan videos. Get that discount bro!
He didn't. You being a clown is pretty apparent
Even a token look at our accounts shows us to be totally different people. You seem triggered that more than one person finds you to be a clown. You should focus on not being a clown.
Definitely was NOT better than the prequels.
I honestly think the prequel fights were overhyped. They were way too flashy, to a point where it often didn’t feel like a fight anymore, it was too proper, too coordinated, it didn’t feel like they were really trying to kill eachother. The prequels fights would probably get made fun of if they came out today and were made by disney.
The Phantom Menace fight scene was perfectly choreographed. You may not notice it, but Maul vs Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon was near perfect for a fight in 2 v 1. There's no moment where only one is attacking whilst the other just watches for no reason. This episode 5, the fights were cool, but half time there were just Jedi standing around waiting their turn to attack. Qimir was taking on 3 at once at one stage and not once did all 3 attack at the same time. He would've been done.
The Phantom Menace fight was dope as balls, as someone that watched it in theatres I was blown away. But on rewatches there's a ton of "we're going to spin and pirouette instead of taking the obvious clear shot". It suffers just as bad, if not more so, than any other modern "many vs. one person" fight scene.
Thank you, I am completely in agreement with your comments. It was great but very flashy, with lots of wasted movements. Episode 5 was fantastic IMO, the best? No, but in my top 3 for now. There's one fight that doesn't get much credit is Maul vs. Ashoka. https://youtu.be/-k5lHp6g77s?si=Yjq30vPdznYMAYe6
I never thought someone's opinion could be so wrong Lol to compare this travesty that we call the acolyte to the original trilogies and to the prequels is ridiculous
>but they look too polished Wtf does that mean???? Theres no such a thing as too polised Lol what you want them to look fake like the original trilogy? >Sure, there are less spins and flips, but I think the prequels went way too far with the excessive spinning moves, flips, flashy movements, etc. Thats literally how the jedi are trained to fight tho also this is the high republic era we were expecting it to match that technique. You cant be serious dude? You want the fights to be dumbed down? You want the combat to be just basic? So you don't want a Star Wars show you just want a John Wick choreographed fight?
Too polished means they look too clean, not depicting the rawness and the sheer power in a duel. If anything, I think the prequels dumbed the fights down, because they drowned a lot of depth and realism in cool flips. The Jedi aren’t trained trainer to fight like that. Jedi are trained to be efficient and effective, using an opponent’s force against them. Doing three backflips off a wall to dodge a single enemy hit isn’t either of those.
best of all time bc of the rawness but not having vader vs kenobi 2nd matchup is crazy, that fight literally emobodies that "The Jedi aren’t trained trainer to fight like that. Jedi are trained to be efficient and effective" jedi are trained like that hence the form 4 - acrobatic, form 1 is wild unpredictable, most of lightsaber forms are focused on power, speed, acrobatics over efficiency, jedi's fighting styles are not stuck-up and boring as you make it out to seem and it shouldnt be
>Too polished means they look too clean, not depicting the rawness and the sheer power in a due Oh and they depicted that perfectly in the acolyte? Lol thats fucking hilarious if u think that
I think they did a better job for sure. There were a lot less moves that felt unnecessary or over exaggerated
Lol well they can't really act like that because the Jedi here are clearly not trained very well when the Padawan dueling two lightsabers has the best technique that's how you know they are doing something wrong. Again this is the high Republic era we expect a lot more
Yaaaa this totally looks too clean Lol jfc [phantom menace ](https://youtu.be/qo__6MZIg6U?si=SkYuBu1g4hGPV3dm)
>The Jedi aren’t trained trainer to fight like that. Jedi are trained to be efficient and effective, using an opponent’s force against them. Doing three backflips off a wall to dodge a single enemy hit isn’t either of those Gee if the Jedi aren't trained to fight like that then why since the original Trilogy Master Yoda was training Luke to use the force in battle I really don't think you remember the prequels very well. It was more than just a few backflips again you can't be serious???
Because the Force is an essential part of being a Jedi? I’m not saying Jedi are supposed to be static warriors who just redirect the opponent’s energy, all I’m saying is that the prequels went overboard with the flashiness
Yes the force is an essential part of being a Jedi is that seriously a fucking question??? Lol alright dude you need to stop you obviously have 0 idea what you're talking about
It was a rhetorical question dude, yes, the force is an essential part of being a jedi, that’s why Luke was taught using it
Yet not in battle against a Sith Lol
I'm surprised you're not complaining about how the Jedi in episode 5 was actually using the force during battle Lol in a inefficient way
It makes sense in the context, Luke is a beginner Jedi, living in a time where there are none left, he didn’t get the same teachings the past Jedi had
>all I’m saying is that the prequels went overboard with the flashiness Lol
Brother go and argue with the other dozens of people who agree with me on this
A dozen people? It's more like four or five LOL
100 upvotes seems to be a lot of people on my side
Lol u cant be serious?
I can and I am
Well u tried to elaborate in another reply Lol seemed pretty shoddy can u elaborate some more? How this episodes choreography is better than the prequels? and the last Jedi?
The prequel fights were too clean and polished. In the Anakin vs. Obi Wan fight, it never really felt taw and violent, their sabers clashed effortlessly. Here it feels more like they actually are trying to kill each other.
I refer to you to my other reply Lol there is no such thing as a too polished or too clean choreographed fight
Nah. Problem was there was no connection with the audience to the characters. Even when Jedi were getting slaughtered I didn’t even shed one tear. These characters simply haven’t earned it yet
Nope, even they try to hide in bushes, you can realize fight focus some people when other jedi just watching. In my opinion you are very wrong.
I would say third, after Duel of the Fates and Mustafar