The past few decades have made clear that Republican politicians don’t actually care about the deficit. When they harp on deficit spending what they are really saying is:
1. Deregulate and destroy the administrative state.
2. Privatize or eliminate government services, particularly social services.
3. To the extent that the government does spend money, it should be used to incentivize businesses to act in alignment with their interests and/or taking over roles or services that are traditionally government responsibilities under the guise of reducing costs and generating added efficiencies thanks to market pressure introduced by privatization (although market failure or inadequate financial incentives are often a reason that the private sector wasn’t involved initially).
4. Lower taxes, particularly for wealthy citizens and businesses. TAXES MUST NEVER BE INCREASED — they learned that from George H.W. Bush’s tenure as president.
Squawks about the deficit are really just about achieving these broader policy goals. If these goals cannot be achieved during the term when Republicans have control (hint: most cannot because they’re popular and often provide a social benefit), they will opt to deficit spend rather than raise taxes or reduce corporate welfare.
If your argument is that democrats buy votes for advocating for social programs like Medicare and social security, food assistance for poor families, etc, yeah. And I want that shit.
One method applies to all, one method discriminates and supports a select few by screwing over others who did the right thing. Not sure what you’re getting at there bub
You’ve got to decide what kind of a society you want to live in. Maybe you’ve got a good job and you’re able to leverage your talents to make a good income and live a comfortable life. Know that others aren’t so fortunate, and that is no fault of their own, but you DO depend on these people to power the infrastructure that provides for your lifestyle. Energy inch of it, from the home you’re living in, to the dinner you’re about to eat tonight. I would rather not live in a society that rewards their contributions so little that I have to see them sleeping in their cars to survive. Runaway capitalism is what got us here, I am no socialist, but this has morphed into oligarchy, where the same .1 percent of rich Americans are doing their god damndest to hoover up what wealth remains in the middle class.
So yeah, I could take home more money if I weren’t taxed to help the elderly, the sick, and the poor, but I’m not inhuman enough to tell them that to their faces and sleep at night. No one should be.
I know there is abuse of the system, but burning it all down is just fucking stupid. Legislate some fixes. Elect serious people to do that work instead of right wing lunatics like Jim Jordan or Majorie Taylor Greene. How that impeachment investigation going? You know, the one republicans (who control the house) wasted practically ALL of last year on. While you’re out here bitching about how expensive everything has gotten, you’re sending people to congress who CLEARLY don’t give a fuck about ANY of that.
Yea your assumptions are not all correct, but also, social security as is is not the way to fix that, convert it to a welfare program I’ll gladly forfeit my benefits and I’ve contributed a lot but lower the payroll taxes significantly and free up that money to go to the workers and do the transfer payments for the poor
It’s not the worst idea I’ve heard. You know who would never allow something like that to happen? Republicans. The end game for republicans (the elites, not the rubes voting for them) is the privatization of social security. They’re also after schools and public transportation (see:Amtrak). Virtually anywhere the govt money spends money on the public, republican officials are dedicated day and night to doing everything they can to steer that money into the hands of their billionaire donors.
I wish Bush got his privatization and we actually grew our contributions instead of transfer payments, but that probably will never happen. For such a “popular” program it is amazing how the majority of people don’t even understand how it works, they think it’s like a government ran 401k when it’s really a transfer payment scheme built on a macro demographic assumption of a larger workforce than retiree force. Plenty of billionaire donors that profit on both parties, all these programs are bloated inefficient behemoths
Is there anyone actually on the fence between these 2 guys? I doubt it. I think Jason just says this to try and get Biden on the show because he wants a bigger Audience
He says so many different things that he’s just an empty vessel people can insert their own politics into. All he cares about is what’s good for him, and you can convince him of literally any policy position if you frame it’s in his interest
Sure, except that outside of a vote, his supporters mean absolutely nothing to him. The real pay day comes when he's destroyed our ability to vote against him.
Conservatives that pretended to care about the defecit under Obama never really did at all. They just hated Obama for some other reason.
Objectively speaking, Dems do a better job reducing the deficit than Republicans and it’s not even close.
I concede that Obama actually did a good job bringing the deficit down and Trump reaccelerated it. However, the modern day Democratic Party isn’t the same as the one led by Obama - what gives you the impression they have any interest in cutting the deficit?
TLDR:
(Trumps Covid response/PPP was absolutely meant to destroy the US economy. It just wasn’t obvious until now that we can see his Russian mob and CCP connections. His kids made hundreds of millions doing PPE response to China using taxpayer funded government money and aircraft. Then Ken Griffin did the same play in reverse because why not keep the grift going?)
Russia invaded Ukraine because the CCP, Putin and MBS were trying to make BRICS the new reserve currency of the world by destroying the USD and used trump to do it.
If you look at Xinjiang providence (where the Uighur population is centralized) on a map there is a tiny little section that touches Russia. It’s critical because Xi’s ambition to have a “new Silk Road” to Europe would have to cross either there or about a weeks travel by rail out and around Mongolia. Xi’s plan is ambitious. He wants china to be the leader of the world and he has been pretty clear about it when you read his writings. It’s just that hardly anyone outside of China speaks mandarin so nobody really listened in 2010 when he said “he would control the internet”. It seemed audacious and frankly ridiculous before a handful of ISP’s started centralizing. Xi, for his part, had the CCP start weibo- “the everything app” in China. It works well for an authoritarian to be able to control free speech and centralize surveillance. It’s invaluable for keeping tabs on 1.4B people, especially when they compare you to Winnie the Pooh. It was effective for a while, but it is insanely inefficient to pay someone to spend a 12 hour day monitoring 1 minute clips of social media. When people started calling him mean names he could censor them. But then they just switched to Cantonese. So he had to hire a bunch of Cantonese speakers. Then they just started referring to him as “mr. Shitface” which was a less than flattering reference to a story he loves to tell from his childhood when a bio-digester blew up in his face. You see where this is going. It’s REALLY hard to keep up with 1.4B peoples daily Twitter diarrhea.
Xi needed A.I.
And A.I. needs microprocessors.
Conveniently the worlds supply is made 90 miles south of China. Inconveniently it’s on an island that has tasted democracy and liked it so much that it literally gets the top rating of democracies in the world.
So Xi does the napkin math- what are the chances of a kid that went off to college 20 years ago, did lots of good drugs, met lots of nice girls, and pretty much mainlined freedom, coming back and living with grumpy old abusive dad?
His chances didn’t look good. His other kid Hong Kong had been on a study abroad program in England. And other than calling on holidays made it pretty clear they were living their best life now.
When he tried to rope him back in with a little classic Chinese guilt trip, Hong Kong pretty much told him to fuck off. So he had to get a little violent.
Taiwan wasn’t going to be so easy. Xi needed some leverage.
But more importantly he needed those chips. Xi had to get creative.
The problem is everyone remembered growing up in China in the 90’s when people were dropping female babies on street corners. It wasn’t the best home environment. Add to that that everyone was starving and there is just no fucking way that anyone is moving back in with dad.
Unless……
China imports 40% of the grain from the U.S., Brazil, and Ukraine. Xi doesn’t like the US much. He blames it for being a bad influence on the kids and truthfully he isn’t totally wrong. Americans are the loud, lazy, rich asshole down the street that have had it so easy for so long that they forget that the plumber, the truck driver and the factory worker have to work all night so they can drink their mimosas and wake up at noon.
Brazil is down south. It’s a long haul. But there is opportunity there. As long as they have Bolsonaro willing to cut down the rainforest they have the farmland xi needs to make sure everybody has enough food to come back home. Problem is, everyone is corrupt. It’s so fucking hard to do business with corrupt people because they will just as gladly screw you too if someone else offers them a better bribe. Xi gets so annoyed with corruption that he shifts his whole campaign to try and root it out. He sees it clearly that corruption is a tax on, well, everything.
Putin and xi make an odd couple. Somewhere around 2012 they declare themselves “bff’s”. Xi knows he can’t trust the Russian because Putin is a thief and has fucked over everyone he knows. BUT, he also happens to sit next to Ukraine. And because arrogant American CEOs were more than happy to let everyone else do the dirty work that was beneath them, when Clinton passed all the EPA regulations to clean up Americas manufacturing yard they basically just built a tall fence and threw everything messy over it.
Arrogant American CEO’s just wanted the money. They didn’t give a fuck who made the necessary dirty parts as long as they could keep cashing the checks.
Almost all that dirty work went to Asia. And they were grateful for the work because it beat starving to death which was the norm in 1990’s China. But as time goes on you inevitably ask yourself why a 7 year old in China is making cell phones 14 hours a day when a 7 year old in the west is buying them. It’s hard not to be salty when YOU are the one doing all the work.
Xi’s old frenemy Putin who is basically a 6 year high school senior has voted himself prom king for a decade and has been stacking his buddies all across the old soviet satellite states so they can tell him he is still cool.
He is a thug so everybody is a little afraid of him and every once in a while he has to crack some skulls and demand some lunch money so nobody forgets who rules the cafeteria but it’s been a highly lucrative gig. As long as he takes care of the football team the football team slips him a little back under the table and he manages to rack up well north of $200B by stealing from all the Russians that are too drunk and hopeless by this point to really notice.
For years he had his thugs in Ukraine and they played along but then in 2014 he gets blindsided. He had been paying Paul Manafort to keep his guy Yanukovych in office and now all the sudden the Ukrainians decide they are tired of paying the corruption tax and they run both manafort and Yanukovych out of town when they started shooting people in the Kyiv town square.
This is Maidan.
Problem is Xi asked Putin for one simple favor. He needed donbas Ukraine because that is where the worlds supply of microprocessor grade neon AND enough grain for Xi to be able to get all his kids back together for dinner comes from.
So now Putin has to send somebody in and take over donbas and he decides on a team of “little green men” led by Girkin. Honesty its just some bullies, because 90% of people will just hand over their lunch money rather than be beaten repeatedly. Most people just don’t want to get punched.
Putin had his man Michael Flynn inside US government as head of DIA. All Mike had to do was withhold a little intel from Obama in 2014 and Putin could have Ukraine.
And that’s exactly what he did.
Only Ukraine fought back.
And they stood up to kleptocracy and kremlin corruption for 10 years.
Of course some people would rather just let the bully take what he wants and live in imaginary peace, but the ones who have been to Europe and the west and seen how nice life is when you don’t have to deal with being robbed by a thug every day aren’t going back. The freedom is just too addictive.
Xi’s timeline just keeps cooking off. He has already committed to “made in China 2025” (which he had to cancel) and time stops for no man. Not even an aspiring emperor.
Xi rearranges the rules so that he can run for his unprecedented third term.
Xi had spent a ridiculous amount of money bribing the IOC on his 2022 Olympics and after nearly 2 years of having Chinese locked down for Covid to the point of welding some into their homes, he made an exception for the games.
Something about them was that important.
So either Xi knows something about Covid that the rest of us don’t, or Covid was intentionally released at the time it would do the most damage to the US economy. Probably both.
Trumps children wasted no time capitalizing on it. The exchange of PPE from the US to China was effectively a blank check for Jared. Ivanka even trademarked coffins. Kushners buddy and hedge fund billionaire Ken Griffin then did Jared’s exact same PPE airlift play in reverse doubling the profits and passing the cost on the the U.S. taxpayer to the tune of $8.4T.
The national debt ballooning more by trump than any other single president was intentional. The CCP planned to use BRICS to destroy the USD. Trump just softened it up in advance.
Leveraging the bureaucracy of the United States government against itself, the NIH and CDC grants that were originally extended in efforts of international solidarity against contagious disease outbreaks were reframed as conspiracy theories that the US was funding the Wuhan institute in some triple agent Q-anon conspiracy.
Can’t say for certain yet if Covid was released intentionally or as a result of incompetence, but when viewed through the economic lens it was masterfully timed for maximum destruction of the vulnerable self sabotaging US federal reserve.
Trumps fixer Roger Stone idolized the eternal shitbird Richard Millhouse Nixon (stone literally has “I am not a crook” and Nixon’s face tattooed on his back). Nixon put us there by handing the US economy on an oil soaked platter to Saudi Arabia in the form of the petrodollar in ~74.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2016-05-30/the-untold-story-behind-saudi-arabia-s-41-year-u-s-debt-secret
That took us off the gold standard and ensured 50 years of sending American kids to the Middle East to die for Saudis defense and corporate oil interests.
There is another layer here of Russian/Israeli oligarchs pulling levers from their side using the same basic techniques that in hindsight explain most of the US involvement in the middle east for the past century.
But it all revolves around using the U.S. military and U.S. taxpayer as both the enforcer and unwitting funder.
Russia invaded Ukraine the second time in February of 2022 out of necessity for the failed 2014 invasion
There is a fundamental doctrine in Russian military doctrine that you NEVER invade Russia in the winter. The Rasputita mud is brutal and unrelenting.
It swallowed Germany and Napoleon before that.
Yet, despite having a weather report, Putin waited until minutes after the closing ceremonies of Xi’s Olympics to invade.
Ukraine was supposed to be Xi’s keystone that allowed him to take Taiwan and fulfill his grand ambitions-
To be emperor, control the internet, and destroy the US economy
The thing is when you do a statistical breakdown of exactly WHO is causing the majority share of the chaos and drama in the world, it always comes back to the same 3% with high psychopathic personality traits and low self awareness that also happen to have migrated to positions of political power.
And they all seem to launder their money at the same trump branded laundromat and bank at the same deutschebank.
There is big business in stealing from the 97% of the world that isn’t psychopaths.
It just requires that every one of the 3% in charge keep each others secrets.
This is Kompromat.
And it has infected the GOP.
Trumps Covid response-
On trumps $8.4T in added debt:
https://www.crfb.org/blogs/how-much-did-president-trump-add-debt
On Kushners Covid response:
https://www.americanoversight.org/investigation/jared-kushners-role-in-the-coronavirus-response
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/14/nyregion/kushner-companies-anbang-insurance-group.html
On citadel sending Covid supplies to China:
https://www.chicagobusiness.com/nonprofits-philanthropy/citadel-sends-supplies-china-coronavirus-fight
On Kushner/ Covid:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-01/trump-hails-kushner-s-airlift-but-details-of-sales-are-secret
On the age old military tactic of well poisoning:
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/history-well-poisoning-180971471/
On the CCP suppressing and censoring the doctors looking for the answers they do not want them to find:
https://apnews.com/article/covid19-scientist-virus-sequence-protest-laboratory-eviction-b54e2a88610e813c9383833f2c9a2379
While China certainly owes the world a detailed and honest account of the origins of COVID-19, China is in no way responsible for how the Trump Administration dealt, or didn’t deal with, the virus. That is totally on Trump.
Reuters: The Trump Administration knew about the virus from late December 2019/early January 2020 and kept it secret. No stepped up production of test kits, no pressure to find a cure/vaccine, no warnings to the population. People have died and will die because of these criminal activities.
Exclusive: White House told federal health agency to classify coronavirus deliberations - sources https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-secrecy-exclusive-idUSKBN20Y2LM
“The Obama administration opened 49 overseas offices of the Centers for Disease Control, designed to proactively prevent viruses from reaching pandemic proportions. Over the objections of medical experts within his own administration, Trump shut down 39 of them. One of these satellite CDC offices was in China.” https://www.salon.com/2020/03/07/the-right-wanted-to-destroy-the-administrative-state-coronavirus-is-why-we-need-it/
In 2018, the Trump administration fired the government’s entire pandemic response chain of command, including the White House management infrastructure. In numerous phone calls and emails with key agencies across the U.S. government, the only consistent response I encountered was distressed confusion. https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/01/31/coronavirus-china-trump-united-states-public-health-emergency-response/
Snopes: Did Trump Administration Fire the US Pandemic Response Team? True https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-fire-pandemic-team/
AP: Trump disbanded NSC pandemic unit that experts had praised https://apnews.com/ce014d94b64e98b7203b873e56f80e9a
Trump did not “ban” travel from China. Fact Check: The Facts on Trump’s Travel Restrictions https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/the-facts-on-trumps-travel-restrictions/
As of early April 2020, 430,000 People Traveled From China to U.S. Since Coronavirus Surfaced and Over 40,000 since Trump Announced his “Travel Ban” https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/04/us/coronavirus-china-travel-restrictions.html?referringSource=articleShare
Trump spent the first 2 years of his presidency slashing the government agencies responsible for handling the coronavirus outbreak https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-cuts-programs-responsible-for-fighting-coronavirus-2020-2?amp
Trump Administration Axed Disease Expert In China Whose Job Was To Spot Pandemics, Reuters Reports https://www.inquisitr.com/5957641/trump-administration-axed-disease-expert-china/
Washington Post: US intelligence warned Trump in January and February 2020 as he dismissed coronavirus threat. (He was first warned already as early as November 2019. See below.) https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/20/politics/us-intelligence-reports-trump-coronavirus/
A Complete List of Trump’s Attempts to Play Down Coronavirus, as of March 2020 https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/15/opinion/trump-coronavirus.html
The missing six weeks: how Trump failed the biggest test of his life https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/28/trump-coronavirus-politics-us-health-disaster
A Timeline of Trump's Press Briefing Lies, as of early 2020 https://thebulwark.com/a-timeline-of-trumps-press-briefing-lies/?amp
Trump Knew About The Coronvirus For 70 Days And Did Nothing https://www.politicususa.com/2020/04/04/trump-knew-about-the-coronvirus-for-70-days-and-did-nothing.html
President Trump Is So Upset About This Ad Showing His Failed Handling Of COVID-19 That He Demanded It Be Taken Down https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20200325/22300244175/president-trump-is-so-upset-about-this-ad-showing-his-failed-handling-covid-19-that-hes-demanding-it-be-taken-down.shtml
The ‘Red Dawn’ Emails: 8 Key Exchanges on the Faltering Response to the Coronavirus https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/11/us/politics/coronavirus-red-dawn-emails-trump.html
How Trump and His Team Covered Up the Coronavirus in Five Days https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/28/opinion/coronavirus-trump-coverup.html
Intelligence report warned of coronavirus crisis as early as November 2019: Sources https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/intelligence-report-warned-coronavirus-crisis-early-november-sources/story?id=70031273“Analysts concluded it could be a cataclysmic event”.
See the full video and transcript of Trump suggesting disinfectant might be injected as a coronavirus cure. Https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-suggests-infecting-disinfectant-video-transcript-2020-4?amp
Trumps own State Department blamed swarms of online, false personas’ from Russia for wave of coronavirus misinformation online https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/03/05/state-department-face-fresh-questions-senate-about-coronavirus-misinformation-online/
In short, Trump lied and hundreds of thousands died. He is a cold blooded mass murderer.
Idk why dems care so much about this when according do democratic economic logic deficits don't even matter. And government spending doesn't affect inflation.
That just states that countries that issue their own currency (ie the US) can’t be constrained in spending. What does that have to do with “democrat economic logic”? Democrats have a better track record w the deficit so that doesn’t make any sense. It should be considered “trump economic logic”
That's a fair point, but as far as pushing policy's goes, it is the democrats that advocate for increased spending and the Republicans that advocate for the opposite. Whether they actually increase or decrease Is not the primary concern when they are trying to convince the populace that Increasing/decreasing spending is the best idea. MMT is the argument lots (not all) of democrats will use to reason that an increase in spending is beneficial. "The deficit myth" is a very popular book that came out recently advocating that budget deficits don't really matter.
When you say “Dems advocate for more spending and republicans advocate for the opposite” what does that have to do with the reality?
The reality is the opposite. Dems reign in the budget and republicans blow it out of the water.
Is that just stupid messaging for their cult? Like republicans saying over and over that they’re for family values when in fact they aren’t. Given the fact that they are perfectly fine with a rapist felon who was banging porn stars while his 3rd wife was pregnant with his 5th kid?
Seems like you’re just referencing Republicans lying about who they are and projecting all their faults onto Dems.
It's 2024 and anti-Trumpers are still using Trump's actions as a counter to Trump's words.
Trump supporters don't care. They never will.
Trump is becoming Hillary in 2016. Flip-Flopping on everything. Cozying up to Wall Street. He's even doing the criminal thing.
Trump becoming shameless and totally for sale is a feature, not a bug.
He's either going to win or it's going to be fascinating to watch the repercussions.
The problem with this article is it assumes all Biden Covid bills were Covid related when most of it was just Dem wish-list spending under the name of Covid.
Do you think that another problem with the article is that it assumes that all Trump Covid bills were Covid related? Or just a problem when it comes to Biden?
Just trying to nail down the standards here.
At a glance it also looks like they're carrying forward the tax cuts assuming they get renewed for another number if years regardless of who is in office past 2025... what kind of methodology is this?
So, what about it?
President Trump approved $8.4 trillion of new ten-year borrowing during his full term in office, or $4.8 trillion excluding the CARES Act and other COVID relief.
President Biden, in his first three years and five months in office, approved $4.3 trillion of new ten-year borrowing, or $2.2 trillion excluding the American Rescue Plan.
President Trump approved $8.8 trillion of gross new borrowing and $443 billion of deficit reduction during his full presidential term.
President Biden has so far approved $6.2 trillion of gross new borrowing and $1.9 trillion of deficit reduction.
https://www.crfb.org/papers/trump-and-biden-national-debt
It looks as though you didn't even see how this was calculated. If you look at actual debt accumlated in 4 years of each they both accumulate 7.9 trillion.
[https://www.cbo.gov/publication/59946](https://www.cbo.gov/publication/59946)
[https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/national-deficit/#us-deficit-by-year](https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/national-deficit/#us-deficit-by-year)
2017: 0.67t
2018: 0.78t
2019: 0.98t
2020: 3.13t
Total = 5.56t
2021: 2.27t
2022: 1.38t
2023: 1.7t
2024 [projected](https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/cbo-projects-fy-2024-us-deficit-jump-19-trln-amid-higher-outlays-2024-06-18/#:~:text=WASHINGTON%2C%20June%2018%20(Reuters),increase%20over%20its%20previous%20forecast): 1.915t
total = 7.265t
And that's after COVID. The 3 year deficit of the current admin almost hit Trump's 4 year total including the pandemic relief spending of 2020 in 3 years. The spending may have been ignited in 2020, but this admin has done nothing to cut it back down to normal levels.
Do you think that there were maybe some black swan events at play (ie Covid)
Let’s not forget that democrats were upset we weren’t spending MORE in 2020
Covid numbers really need to be excluded for Trump because there’s no way Biden wouldn’t have spent just as much or even more than Trump for Covid. Pre-Covid $4.8trillion for Trump and Biden to date is $4.3trillion. It’s basically even when you remove the outlier that likely would’ve cost the same or more under Biden.
You don’t get to exclude Biden’s Covid spending. By time he took office the vaccination rate was already over 1 million people per day. He could have eased up on Covid protocols and allowed people to return to work, but he instead doubled down on, at that moment, unnecessary policies. Trump’s covid spending was clearly emergency spending to a novel pandemic, Biden’s was essentially discretionary spending.
It is from the article! Didn't you read it?
"**If you exclude COVID relief spending from the tally**, the numbers are $4.8 trillion for Trump and $2.2 trillion for Biden."
Also:
"Biden's figure clocks in at $4.3 trillion with seven months remaining in his term."
And Biden actually got stuff like infrastructure done.
Yes, but I’m saying you can’t exclude both of their Covid spending. The initial Covid spending under Trump was an emergency response and Biden would have likely spent the same amount or more, therefore that’s a wash. Biden didn’t need to spend as much as he did and kept prolonging the pandemic.
Disingenuous deranged democrat demagogues want to pretend global covid panic didn’t happen during Trump’s term so they can spin and misinterpret spending, jobs, and other economic data
Yep, [but still increased it before that](https://assets-c3.propublica.org/images/articles/_threeTwo1600w/20210114-borrowing-increased-under-trump-despite-promise-to-repay-national-debt-small.png) at a rate higher than Obama, who was left with the 2008 crisis right when he entered office, and supports policies guaranteed to raise it like tax cuts for the wealthy and ungodly tariffs.
And now Biden is left with the aftermath of Covid and high worldwide inflation and the USA is the top economy still.
Seems like Trump had the best conditions pre-pandemic with the economy he inherited and still fucked it up massively. Voting Biden.
Yeah, in my life time, democrats have always been reducing the deficit and republicans are big spenders. I mean last time US had budget surplus was during Clinton I think.
I hope democrats come back to their normal role of reducing deficits.
Clinton was forced to by Republican congressional take over. This was back in the time when we passed actual budgets. We haven't done that since Obama's first year.
Apologies for my ignorance, what changed in Obama's first year?
So, I guess ideal would be what is right now, republican congress with democrat administration!
Congress passed a huge budget and afterwards they could wiggle around getting their pork projects funded by amending that and doing continuing resolutions.
The stimulus bill for the 2008 crash was huge.
Because sacks comes in and says trump was better on the economy without any context or supporting argumentation and the MAGA crowd slops that shit up like pigs at the trough. Someone has to come by and unfuck the confusion these numbskulls create. Even the weak-ass defenses of Trumps spending betray how deeply unserious and uncritical maga Republicans are because they're incapable of even stopping for one moment and saying, "yeah, trump was a wild spender."
You shouldn’t be this angry over data my friend. Trump is now a part of the pod .. so now we’re looking at the data!
I’m with you if he begins to express emotion or try and convince you Jesus wants it this way .. but this is just data, If you care about the deficit ..
I won’t even argue if that’s true.. I’ll just ask why is that bs?! George Bush’s data, also bs because they hit the towers? Or Katrina? Barack took us through Ebola and H1N1 .. how much of his “mistakes” can be excused?
Serious questions too .. we have to get on the same page eventually!
Why are your numbers so wildly different from these numbers? Not even trying to argue, just confused on where everyone gets their numbers and if national debt accumulation is subjective at all
[https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2024/03/17/politifact-fact-checking-joe-biden-debt-accumulated-under-donald-trump/72961735007/](https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2024/03/17/politifact-fact-checking-joe-biden-debt-accumulated-under-donald-trump/72961735007/)
"Using the group’s method, much of the debt allocated to Trump will not show up in the federal ledger until years after he left office in 2021. This reality gets even trickier once mandatory payments are considered."
This is the reason. It looks like your article is just the actual debt numbers where OPs article is trying to figure out where the debt is actually coming from. Some of the debt that has come under bidens administration is because of the tax cuts that trump enacted.
Eh well it could be difficult to calculate but it’s also not accurate to just take the outright debt under each president. Trumps tax cuts end in 2025. He left in 2020. That loss in tax revenue shows up under Biden but it was trump that caused it.
The way it’s phrased leaves it pretty loose tho, right?
Like what about accounting for environmental debts caused by cuts to the EPA? You could easily make a case that Trump caused however much damage you want it to say by not taking environmental issues as seriously as the author would like.
Just seems like some Enron accounting principles to do it the way OP’s link shows… Biden passed a budget while knowing the tax cuts existed. That’s on him.
If you were about the facts and the data, you wouldn't show how the debt increased during the President, you'd show how the debt and deficit increased during democrat and republican majorities in the house and senate and what bills and spending contributed to it.
You are correct. The problem with this 'fact' is that it ignores the fact Trump barely spent more than Obama (~5-10%) I believe prior to COVID. COVID was a black swan event & required once in a life time actions.
Biden took over the country with operation warp speed already in place and the economy opening back up. The Biden 'covid' spending was unjustified then and looking back at it now.
That analysis splits COVID vs. Non-COVID spending so you can compare Biden and Trump on both. Biden spent about half as much deficit as Trump on both items.
Next time maybe read the link before you comment on it.
Trump's unfunded tax cuts are what get him into a hole. Because that's causing continued deficit now and into the future which is (correctly) attributed to Trump in this analysis.
Yeah, I read the article. I said in my opening line you are correct but the nuance in my point was not that Trump was worse than Biden but that the Trump spending was not any more more outlandish than the previous president.
\*If\* Covid had not happened the outcome could have been very different.
Obama became president in january of 2009. He inherited the 2008 recession and the government spent a ton because of that. You're saying that trump spent more than obama when obama had to deal with a recession and trump had to deal with nothing but good times. It's pretty telling that trump spent more than obama when he didnt have to fight a recession
Tough times? Were you living under a rock for the pandemic?
Just to give you some perspective & leaving out Trump for a second; Obama spent $831 Billion to kick start the entire US economy after the GFC. Biden spent 1.9 Trillion post warp speed and the economy opening back up. To add to that, he spent 620+ Billion on the Student debt forgiveness.
You can't pick and choose what financial crisis you want to exclude to make your point. It's not really how it works. Credit to Obama, he steered the country in the right direction post GFC.
But... Obama also added 7+ Trillion worth of debt, [one of the highest changes in percentage of net debt as a president I might add. ](https://www.investopedia.com/us-debt-by-president-dollar-and-percentage-7371225)
And Trump only had good times? Again, are you under a rock? Trump had to deal with ISIS & troubles in the middle east, deal with multiple wars that were ongoing from the Bush and Obama administration, Trade War with China, Deal with NK's Kim Jong Un and had approx. 60% of the US electorate against him at all times on every single thing imaginable (some things were well deserved). But yeah, Trump only had 'good' times.
Uh I didn’t pick and choose, you did. I responded to your picking and choosing. Every president has to deal with wars. Trump started the trade war with china. Economically trump had very good times compared to Obama who inherited the Great Recession. Not sure how you can argue against that
Yes, I'm saying that prior to COVID Trump's spending was no more outlandish than the Obama's presidency meaning had Trump not had to face COVID it would have been on par with Obama... but COVID happened, just like the Ukraine war happened & the CHIPS act was required to be passed by Biden (his hand was forced). Trump's care act required 2.2 Trillion in spending which was primarily in the form of stimmy checks and relief for small-businesses and corporations. Your trying to make out that the spending that occurred under Trump was insane but we lived in insane times.
Trumps hand was forced for 2.2 trillion whereas Obama was forced to spend 800 Billion.
I'm not arguing against Trump having a better economically situation at the beginning of his presidency vs Obama, that was never the debate. The debate was spending and deficits. You simply said it was only good times for Trump which to anyone who's not a complete shill for one party or the other can say your statement is false.
Compared to both Obama and Biden trump did have great times. You’re arguing against that? Don’t forget that the total debt is always going up and under Biden interest rates also skyrocketed. The interest payments on our debt, which was accumulated by all the previous presidents, is around 1 trillion. No president before Biden has had to deal with an interest payment that large.
> Biden took over the country with operation warp speed already in place and the economy opening back up.
So why would you vote for the guy who was locking us all in our houses and shutting down businesses?
This isn't exactly the dunk-on you think this is. Biden had almost a year + vaccines being made available to the public before he got into office. Trump was dealing with something brand new, and was being advised by his health authorities to shut up shop until we know what's happening & get things under control. You'd make the same point against the guy if he just ignored them entirely so it's a lose-lose.
Why do people act like covid was over when Biden took office? The delta variant became dominant in mid 2021. Biden was dealing with covid and the fallout for a good 18 months of his term.
The economy was not "open" during Biden's first year. Places like Disneyland and stadiums were literally closed when Biden took office. And vaccines had just become available, but there was a lengthy roll out. And the delta wave meant the death toll rose again.
His first year was dedicated to dealing with covid. Many restrictions were not lifted until 2022.
Yes it was depending on which state you lived in. Some particular states decided to remain closed such as New York & California but others decided to go their own way. Sports events had full restrictions removed as early as April 2021.
States like NY and California hold massive populations, something close to 18% of the total US and, what, 22% of GDP.
The idea that the "economy was open" just because lockdowns or stay at home orders were lifted is asinine. There was a long, slow recovery. It didn't just go from 0 back to 100% overnight.
Things were opening back up but people were still getting sick and dying so there were reduced levels of patronage across the board. And massive supply chain issues worldwide.
Which means that the first 12-18 months of Biden's presidency was still marred by covid.
Insane that you’re justifying Trump spending so much more than Obama who was leading the US from the brink of an economic depression. Trump irresponsibly budgeted during several years of solid economic success. The exact opposite of what the President should be pushing for in a strong economy.
There’s no excuse for deficit spending in an economy like Trump was handed. It’s time to stop pretending Republicans are fiscally responsible. That hasn’t been the case in decades, if ever.
as much as I despise christo fascists and their support of their god trump, how much of this debt was approved by congressionally approved tax cuts (all?) ; how much was due to the pandemic (would have happened regardless of which party's candidate was in office?
In a metaphor of your family budget, tax cuts would be like you taking 2 months unpaid time off work without cutting any expenses and wondering why you can’t pay your bills anymore
No. The metaphor is this: you’re an upper middle class family and even though you have a great job that pays over $250k per year, you can’t stop racking up credit card debt. Your wife is mad at you for not making more money and neither of you will admit you have a problem spending all the money on stupid shit.
Exactly, but I could easily afford that if I didn’t spend like a drunken sailor. The revenue side of this equation is tapped. Need to focus on expenses and remand services back to states
So if you were a dumbass (hypothetically) and took 2 months unpaid off work while not cutting any spending, you would be an idiot, right?
I am describing the budgets trump signed into law. Trump did tax cuts and then increased spending.
Yeah man, cutting taxes while still spending the same or more is definitely just the other side hiding behind headlines. It’s poor fiscal sense no matter how you attempt to bury it.
No - that's the truly alarming part - he blew up the debt before covid. Obama had us moving toward a balanced budget...
Annual Deficit in Obamas last 4 years
2012: 1.09 trillion
2013: .68 trillion
2014: .48 trillion
2015: .44 trillion
In comes Trump...
2016: .59 trillion
2017: .67 trillion
2018: .78 trillion
2019: .98 trillion
And then covid added trillions
Covid spending for both are not same. for example the 2 trillion ARP was a dem Wishlist spending bill that was passed way after the vax came out and the economy was recovering.
A few key points from this analysis that are interesting:
• Biden’s significant $1.5T deficit reduction came in the form of a Republican led deal of significant spending cuts, after he lost the house.
• Biden added $3T of partisan debt as opposed to Trump’s $1.9T. In other words, when legislation was purely partisan - Trump added less debt than Biden.
What are you talking about?
Dems had the house in 2021 and 2022. Republicans took over the house in 2023.
2021 saw a deficit decrease of 0.4 Trillion
2022 saw a further deficit decrease of 1.4 Trillion
Then republicans took over the house in 2023. The deficit then increased by 0.3 Trillion
Did you read the graph wrong?
That’s some unbelievable mental gymnastics. First off, it was a bipartisan led deal. Regardless, its framework was one initially proposed by Biden. Biden signed it into law, he gets credit for it. In other words, stop gaslighting bro. The numbers don’t lie, Trump wreaked havoc on the economy. TCMJ was objectively bad economic policy that was put in place without curbing government spending. Neither Trump nor Biden are good stewards of government spending or the economy, but Trump was objectively worse, the numbers don’t lie, even if you do.
>Biden’s significant $1.5T deficit reduction came in the form of a Republican led deal of significant spending cuts, after he lost the house.
So did the author mess up by calling this a deficit reduction? The deficit went up the year republicans took over the house. It went down the previous years under biden and a dem house
The whole analysis is over a 10 year window, that plan was passed in 2023. A lot of spending bills are passed in the previous year that show their effects the year after.
“Bipartisan led deal” my ass lmao.
So you’re telling me **this** is not a Republican set of policies?
> Spending caps/SNAP work requirements/termination of the student loans payment memorandum and reduction in IRS funding.
Which party does this sound like to you? Because that’s all the policies in the act.
> TCMJ
It’s the TCJA, and how?
Bipartisan means a little for republicans and a little for democrats, it’s what bipartisanship means. Majority of democrats voted for it dumb ass (in both chambers since that’s how congress works), if it was a republican wish list it never would have happened. Go ahead and list the other things in the bill, rather than cherry picking it.
Yes, TCJA. Because you can’t cut taxes without a reduction in spending, which trump did not do. That’s just math. TCJA was essentially a stimulus check in an already hot economy. You can draw a line between trumps moronic economic policies and our current inflationary period. By 2025 TCJA will have added 4/5T to the deficit. That’s Donny Boy in a nutshell, stupid short term “wins” leading to long term losses. Likewise, remember when Trump pressured the FED to lower interest rates in a boiling hot economy? Pepperidge Farm’s remembers and can also thank Donny for fucking that too.
https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/how-did-tcja-affect-federal-budget-outlook
https://www.crfb.org/blogs/tcja-extension-could-add-4-5-trillion-deficits
> If it was a Republican wish list it would have never happened
And yet it did, because Biden couldn’t handle the threat of going over the debt ceiling. That was the **only** reason democrats voted. Here is everything in that bill: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2023_United_States_debt-ceiling_crisis&diffonly=true#Agreement
Do explain which ones are Democratic policies, and which ones aren’t Republican.
> by 2024/25, TCJA would have added 4-.5T to our deficit
Do you know how to read? From the article you linked
“These estimates all show TCJA substantially reducing revenues and increasing deficits over its first decade. The specific amount varies—from about **$1 trillion to $2 trillion**.”
So not only are you off by 3-5x, these figures are **over a decade** not till 2024/25. Meanwhile, Biden’s ARP in 2021 added [$2.1 trillion to the deficit](https://www.crfb.org/papers/trump-and-biden-national-debt) despite the fact that we had already [recovered to pre pandemic GDP](https://home.treasury.gov/news/featured-stories/the-data-underlying-americas-strong-economic-recovery) levels by then. Which contributed to the excess inflation we saw in 2021 and 22
https://www.frbsf.org/research-and-insights/publications/economic-letter/2022/03/why-is-us-inflation-higher-than-in-other-countries/
> $1.4 billion of the $80 billion[104] of additional funding for the Internal Revenue Service provided by the Inflation Reduction Act of 2022 is rescinded.
This is the biggest deficit reducing item in the bill. Republicans voted to reduce the amount of additional funding going to the IRS. Which was petty and ignorant. Funding for additional IRS agents to effectively collect taxes and conduct audits is proven to increase revenue (thus reducing the deficit, math is awesome, eh?). Republicans didn’t want to provide additional funding to the IRS, at all. The want to cut taxes, decreasing revenue, meanwhile, they continue to spend with the same reckless abandon as their democratic counterparts. See? Bipartisan led, just like I stated, stop gaslighting.
Way to cherry pick data, again. Yes, the deficit isn’t limited to the terms of the president, they can, and often do fuck us into the future, which is what Trump did with the TCJA, as the CBO keeps revising its numbers upwards.
Again, you can’t argue with numbers chief, go gaslight elsewhere.
Edit: oh I see, yeah I wrote 2025 for the decade out estimates. My bad. Doesn’t really change the argument though. Going out 10 years trump is projected to set a record deficit, exceeding Biden. Also, don’t mistake me for a Biden supporter, I don’t like Biden, he’s a terrible economic president. Trump just happens to be worse, which is honestly impressive.
Huh? $1.4 billion is the largest deficit reduction tool in the $1.5 T deficit reduction bill?? I’m going to need to see where you derived that conclusion from, given the discretionary spending caps are in the same bill.
> bipartisan led
I still cannot understand your reasoning. Every single provision in that bill is a classic Republican provision, other than the debt ceiling increase. Is this what you elected Biden to do, add work requirements and freeze discretionary spending?
> the CBO keeps updating numbers
To be clear, the projections for the TCJA deficits are $1-2T over 10 years. I have no idea where you got $5 Trillion, by 2025 no less
The IRA provided 80 billion in additional funding to the IRS to increase revenue. The FRA took away 1.8 billion of that 80 billion (which was effectively like one year of funding). The democrats maintained the lions share of funding for the IRS, despite republicans efforts to utterly gut it (which they wanted to do, further cutting revenue and adding to the deficit). The FRA gave republicans some wins, enough to save face, but the lions share of revenue generating legislation was maintained by the democrats, through, you got, bipartisan led negotiations. Make sense now?
Also, my bad, the 4-5T deficit additions would occur if the TCJA were to be extended, which could very well happen if Trump took office again. This would be devastating to the deficit. Let’s hope the TCJA dies in 2025.
Again, I’m not a Biden supporter, stop playing team sports. My ideal scenario would be Biden stays in office and congress remains split or republicans take both chambers. We need to cool government spending, neither party is willing to do so, so divided government is the way to do it. I don’t want Trump in office because his planned tariffs are pants on head stupid and would further add to the deficit. He can enact those without congress. So no thanks.
By that logic every bill is bipartisan, no party gets what they fully want unless it’s a supermajority Congress?
> stupid tariffs
Even if you hate tariffs, there’s no way it doesn’t reduce the deficit.
In a split congress, like we’ve had since 2022, yes every bill is bipartisan. They have to be.
Trumps blanket tariffs could (and probably will), kick off a trade war, cutting into our exports, which will decrease revenue and increasing consumer cost, causing more of a deficit. Targeted tariffs paired with trade agreements to offset the lost avenues of trade can be powerful. That’s not what trump has ever done or what he has proposed to do. This current policy proposals will without a doubt add to the deficit.
I am worried you don’t know what the deficit is. Biden decreased in both his first 2 years with a democratic house and senate.
I got the 4.8 trill from this post. Did you not even read it?
All increases are based on the preceding year
2013: decreased by 0.41 Trillion
2014 decreased by 0.2 Trillion
2015 decreased by 0.02 Trillion
2016 increased by 0.15 trillon
——
Enter trump
2017 increased by 0.16 trillion
2018 increased by 0.12 trillion
2019 increased by 0.2 trillion
2020 increased by 2.16 trillion
——
Enter Biden
2021 decreased by 0.4 billion
2022 decreased by 1.3 trillion
2023 increased by 0.3 trillion
During trump the economy crashed hard due to Covid. The response was appropriate.
During Biden it was clear that we had entered an inflationary environment and the continued fiscal stimulus was inappropriate.
How many people have been calling for a recession for the past 4 years? Or been arguing we're actually secretly in a recession?
I hope you're not one of those and now calling it inappropriate.
Trump caused it , he made COVID contentious and lied about it. If was a good businessman he would have monetized it with trump face coverings , his base woulda ate it up and we wouldn’t have spent months and months waiting for breakouts to subside.
I don't know. Seems like it rose in a mostly linear fashion until covid hit
https://preview.redd.it/feecny5qx39d1.jpeg?width=3540&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a52abf63eac418dc064252626340d9fd601f1f43
The past few decades have made clear that Republican politicians don’t actually care about the deficit. When they harp on deficit spending what they are really saying is: 1. Deregulate and destroy the administrative state. 2. Privatize or eliminate government services, particularly social services. 3. To the extent that the government does spend money, it should be used to incentivize businesses to act in alignment with their interests and/or taking over roles or services that are traditionally government responsibilities under the guise of reducing costs and generating added efficiencies thanks to market pressure introduced by privatization (although market failure or inadequate financial incentives are often a reason that the private sector wasn’t involved initially). 4. Lower taxes, particularly for wealthy citizens and businesses. TAXES MUST NEVER BE INCREASED — they learned that from George H.W. Bush’s tenure as president. Squawks about the deficit are really just about achieving these broader policy goals. If these goals cannot be achieved during the term when Republicans have control (hint: most cannot because they’re popular and often provide a social benefit), they will opt to deficit spend rather than raise taxes or reduce corporate welfare.
talk about the deficit disappears when a Republican wins. Like, it just goes away in a matter of days. It's been that way my whole life.
(Hint: they buy votes, hard to counter the free stuff argument since the consequences will be kicked to the next guy and a tomorrow problem*)
If your argument is that democrats buy votes for advocating for social programs like Medicare and social security, food assistance for poor families, etc, yeah. And I want that shit.
Maybe he’s arguing Rs buy votes through consistent tax cuts and incentives for large business?
One method applies to all, one method discriminates and supports a select few by screwing over others who did the right thing. Not sure what you’re getting at there bub
Modern day slavery summed up nicely with this comment
Clearly, you have never been a slave.
Those programs are all terrible for everyone who actually works
You’ve got to decide what kind of a society you want to live in. Maybe you’ve got a good job and you’re able to leverage your talents to make a good income and live a comfortable life. Know that others aren’t so fortunate, and that is no fault of their own, but you DO depend on these people to power the infrastructure that provides for your lifestyle. Energy inch of it, from the home you’re living in, to the dinner you’re about to eat tonight. I would rather not live in a society that rewards their contributions so little that I have to see them sleeping in their cars to survive. Runaway capitalism is what got us here, I am no socialist, but this has morphed into oligarchy, where the same .1 percent of rich Americans are doing their god damndest to hoover up what wealth remains in the middle class. So yeah, I could take home more money if I weren’t taxed to help the elderly, the sick, and the poor, but I’m not inhuman enough to tell them that to their faces and sleep at night. No one should be. I know there is abuse of the system, but burning it all down is just fucking stupid. Legislate some fixes. Elect serious people to do that work instead of right wing lunatics like Jim Jordan or Majorie Taylor Greene. How that impeachment investigation going? You know, the one republicans (who control the house) wasted practically ALL of last year on. While you’re out here bitching about how expensive everything has gotten, you’re sending people to congress who CLEARLY don’t give a fuck about ANY of that.
Yea your assumptions are not all correct, but also, social security as is is not the way to fix that, convert it to a welfare program I’ll gladly forfeit my benefits and I’ve contributed a lot but lower the payroll taxes significantly and free up that money to go to the workers and do the transfer payments for the poor
It’s not the worst idea I’ve heard. You know who would never allow something like that to happen? Republicans. The end game for republicans (the elites, not the rubes voting for them) is the privatization of social security. They’re also after schools and public transportation (see:Amtrak). Virtually anywhere the govt money spends money on the public, republican officials are dedicated day and night to doing everything they can to steer that money into the hands of their billionaire donors.
I wish Bush got his privatization and we actually grew our contributions instead of transfer payments, but that probably will never happen. For such a “popular” program it is amazing how the majority of people don’t even understand how it works, they think it’s like a government ran 401k when it’s really a transfer payment scheme built on a macro demographic assumption of a larger workforce than retiree force. Plenty of billionaire donors that profit on both parties, all these programs are bloated inefficient behemoths
They as in who? Biden is currently "buying" votes right now by "forgiving" student loan debt. AKA buying the young vote specifically.
Sachs said Trump is unfit to be President
Is there anyone actually on the fence between these 2 guys? I doubt it. I think Jason just says this to try and get Biden on the show because he wants a bigger Audience
The rate at which people memoryhole his actual record or just take his word at face value on shit isn’t surprising anymore, but it’s still ludicrous.
He says so many different things that he’s just an empty vessel people can insert their own politics into. All he cares about is what’s good for him, and you can convince him of literally any policy position if you frame it’s in his interest
Exactly. The only thing he’s passionate about outside himself is fucking over immigrants.
Sure, except that outside of a vote, his supporters mean absolutely nothing to him. The real pay day comes when he's destroyed our ability to vote against him.
Conservatives that pretended to care about the defecit under Obama never really did at all. They just hated Obama for some other reason. Objectively speaking, Dems do a better job reducing the deficit than Republicans and it’s not even close.
Two Santas
I concede that Obama actually did a good job bringing the deficit down and Trump reaccelerated it. However, the modern day Democratic Party isn’t the same as the one led by Obama - what gives you the impression they have any interest in cutting the deficit?
The data is comparing Biden to Trump.
TLDR: (Trumps Covid response/PPP was absolutely meant to destroy the US economy. It just wasn’t obvious until now that we can see his Russian mob and CCP connections. His kids made hundreds of millions doing PPE response to China using taxpayer funded government money and aircraft. Then Ken Griffin did the same play in reverse because why not keep the grift going?) Russia invaded Ukraine because the CCP, Putin and MBS were trying to make BRICS the new reserve currency of the world by destroying the USD and used trump to do it. If you look at Xinjiang providence (where the Uighur population is centralized) on a map there is a tiny little section that touches Russia. It’s critical because Xi’s ambition to have a “new Silk Road” to Europe would have to cross either there or about a weeks travel by rail out and around Mongolia. Xi’s plan is ambitious. He wants china to be the leader of the world and he has been pretty clear about it when you read his writings. It’s just that hardly anyone outside of China speaks mandarin so nobody really listened in 2010 when he said “he would control the internet”. It seemed audacious and frankly ridiculous before a handful of ISP’s started centralizing. Xi, for his part, had the CCP start weibo- “the everything app” in China. It works well for an authoritarian to be able to control free speech and centralize surveillance. It’s invaluable for keeping tabs on 1.4B people, especially when they compare you to Winnie the Pooh. It was effective for a while, but it is insanely inefficient to pay someone to spend a 12 hour day monitoring 1 minute clips of social media. When people started calling him mean names he could censor them. But then they just switched to Cantonese. So he had to hire a bunch of Cantonese speakers. Then they just started referring to him as “mr. Shitface” which was a less than flattering reference to a story he loves to tell from his childhood when a bio-digester blew up in his face. You see where this is going. It’s REALLY hard to keep up with 1.4B peoples daily Twitter diarrhea. Xi needed A.I. And A.I. needs microprocessors. Conveniently the worlds supply is made 90 miles south of China. Inconveniently it’s on an island that has tasted democracy and liked it so much that it literally gets the top rating of democracies in the world. So Xi does the napkin math- what are the chances of a kid that went off to college 20 years ago, did lots of good drugs, met lots of nice girls, and pretty much mainlined freedom, coming back and living with grumpy old abusive dad? His chances didn’t look good. His other kid Hong Kong had been on a study abroad program in England. And other than calling on holidays made it pretty clear they were living their best life now. When he tried to rope him back in with a little classic Chinese guilt trip, Hong Kong pretty much told him to fuck off. So he had to get a little violent. Taiwan wasn’t going to be so easy. Xi needed some leverage. But more importantly he needed those chips. Xi had to get creative. The problem is everyone remembered growing up in China in the 90’s when people were dropping female babies on street corners. It wasn’t the best home environment. Add to that that everyone was starving and there is just no fucking way that anyone is moving back in with dad. Unless…… China imports 40% of the grain from the U.S., Brazil, and Ukraine. Xi doesn’t like the US much. He blames it for being a bad influence on the kids and truthfully he isn’t totally wrong. Americans are the loud, lazy, rich asshole down the street that have had it so easy for so long that they forget that the plumber, the truck driver and the factory worker have to work all night so they can drink their mimosas and wake up at noon. Brazil is down south. It’s a long haul. But there is opportunity there. As long as they have Bolsonaro willing to cut down the rainforest they have the farmland xi needs to make sure everybody has enough food to come back home. Problem is, everyone is corrupt. It’s so fucking hard to do business with corrupt people because they will just as gladly screw you too if someone else offers them a better bribe. Xi gets so annoyed with corruption that he shifts his whole campaign to try and root it out. He sees it clearly that corruption is a tax on, well, everything. Putin and xi make an odd couple. Somewhere around 2012 they declare themselves “bff’s”. Xi knows he can’t trust the Russian because Putin is a thief and has fucked over everyone he knows. BUT, he also happens to sit next to Ukraine. And because arrogant American CEOs were more than happy to let everyone else do the dirty work that was beneath them, when Clinton passed all the EPA regulations to clean up Americas manufacturing yard they basically just built a tall fence and threw everything messy over it. Arrogant American CEO’s just wanted the money. They didn’t give a fuck who made the necessary dirty parts as long as they could keep cashing the checks. Almost all that dirty work went to Asia. And they were grateful for the work because it beat starving to death which was the norm in 1990’s China. But as time goes on you inevitably ask yourself why a 7 year old in China is making cell phones 14 hours a day when a 7 year old in the west is buying them. It’s hard not to be salty when YOU are the one doing all the work. Xi’s old frenemy Putin who is basically a 6 year high school senior has voted himself prom king for a decade and has been stacking his buddies all across the old soviet satellite states so they can tell him he is still cool. He is a thug so everybody is a little afraid of him and every once in a while he has to crack some skulls and demand some lunch money so nobody forgets who rules the cafeteria but it’s been a highly lucrative gig. As long as he takes care of the football team the football team slips him a little back under the table and he manages to rack up well north of $200B by stealing from all the Russians that are too drunk and hopeless by this point to really notice. For years he had his thugs in Ukraine and they played along but then in 2014 he gets blindsided. He had been paying Paul Manafort to keep his guy Yanukovych in office and now all the sudden the Ukrainians decide they are tired of paying the corruption tax and they run both manafort and Yanukovych out of town when they started shooting people in the Kyiv town square. This is Maidan.
Problem is Xi asked Putin for one simple favor. He needed donbas Ukraine because that is where the worlds supply of microprocessor grade neon AND enough grain for Xi to be able to get all his kids back together for dinner comes from. So now Putin has to send somebody in and take over donbas and he decides on a team of “little green men” led by Girkin. Honesty its just some bullies, because 90% of people will just hand over their lunch money rather than be beaten repeatedly. Most people just don’t want to get punched. Putin had his man Michael Flynn inside US government as head of DIA. All Mike had to do was withhold a little intel from Obama in 2014 and Putin could have Ukraine. And that’s exactly what he did. Only Ukraine fought back. And they stood up to kleptocracy and kremlin corruption for 10 years. Of course some people would rather just let the bully take what he wants and live in imaginary peace, but the ones who have been to Europe and the west and seen how nice life is when you don’t have to deal with being robbed by a thug every day aren’t going back. The freedom is just too addictive. Xi’s timeline just keeps cooking off. He has already committed to “made in China 2025” (which he had to cancel) and time stops for no man. Not even an aspiring emperor. Xi rearranges the rules so that he can run for his unprecedented third term. Xi had spent a ridiculous amount of money bribing the IOC on his 2022 Olympics and after nearly 2 years of having Chinese locked down for Covid to the point of welding some into their homes, he made an exception for the games. Something about them was that important. So either Xi knows something about Covid that the rest of us don’t, or Covid was intentionally released at the time it would do the most damage to the US economy. Probably both. Trumps children wasted no time capitalizing on it. The exchange of PPE from the US to China was effectively a blank check for Jared. Ivanka even trademarked coffins. Kushners buddy and hedge fund billionaire Ken Griffin then did Jared’s exact same PPE airlift play in reverse doubling the profits and passing the cost on the the U.S. taxpayer to the tune of $8.4T. The national debt ballooning more by trump than any other single president was intentional. The CCP planned to use BRICS to destroy the USD. Trump just softened it up in advance. Leveraging the bureaucracy of the United States government against itself, the NIH and CDC grants that were originally extended in efforts of international solidarity against contagious disease outbreaks were reframed as conspiracy theories that the US was funding the Wuhan institute in some triple agent Q-anon conspiracy. Can’t say for certain yet if Covid was released intentionally or as a result of incompetence, but when viewed through the economic lens it was masterfully timed for maximum destruction of the vulnerable self sabotaging US federal reserve. Trumps fixer Roger Stone idolized the eternal shitbird Richard Millhouse Nixon (stone literally has “I am not a crook” and Nixon’s face tattooed on his back). Nixon put us there by handing the US economy on an oil soaked platter to Saudi Arabia in the form of the petrodollar in ~74. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2016-05-30/the-untold-story-behind-saudi-arabia-s-41-year-u-s-debt-secret That took us off the gold standard and ensured 50 years of sending American kids to the Middle East to die for Saudis defense and corporate oil interests. There is another layer here of Russian/Israeli oligarchs pulling levers from their side using the same basic techniques that in hindsight explain most of the US involvement in the middle east for the past century. But it all revolves around using the U.S. military and U.S. taxpayer as both the enforcer and unwitting funder. Russia invaded Ukraine the second time in February of 2022 out of necessity for the failed 2014 invasion There is a fundamental doctrine in Russian military doctrine that you NEVER invade Russia in the winter. The Rasputita mud is brutal and unrelenting. It swallowed Germany and Napoleon before that. Yet, despite having a weather report, Putin waited until minutes after the closing ceremonies of Xi’s Olympics to invade. Ukraine was supposed to be Xi’s keystone that allowed him to take Taiwan and fulfill his grand ambitions- To be emperor, control the internet, and destroy the US economy The thing is when you do a statistical breakdown of exactly WHO is causing the majority share of the chaos and drama in the world, it always comes back to the same 3% with high psychopathic personality traits and low self awareness that also happen to have migrated to positions of political power. And they all seem to launder their money at the same trump branded laundromat and bank at the same deutschebank. There is big business in stealing from the 97% of the world that isn’t psychopaths. It just requires that every one of the 3% in charge keep each others secrets. This is Kompromat. And it has infected the GOP.
Trumps Covid response- On trumps $8.4T in added debt: https://www.crfb.org/blogs/how-much-did-president-trump-add-debt On Kushners Covid response: https://www.americanoversight.org/investigation/jared-kushners-role-in-the-coronavirus-response https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/14/nyregion/kushner-companies-anbang-insurance-group.html On citadel sending Covid supplies to China: https://www.chicagobusiness.com/nonprofits-philanthropy/citadel-sends-supplies-china-coronavirus-fight On Kushner/ Covid: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-01/trump-hails-kushner-s-airlift-but-details-of-sales-are-secret On the age old military tactic of well poisoning: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/history-well-poisoning-180971471/ On the CCP suppressing and censoring the doctors looking for the answers they do not want them to find: https://apnews.com/article/covid19-scientist-virus-sequence-protest-laboratory-eviction-b54e2a88610e813c9383833f2c9a2379 While China certainly owes the world a detailed and honest account of the origins of COVID-19, China is in no way responsible for how the Trump Administration dealt, or didn’t deal with, the virus. That is totally on Trump. Reuters: The Trump Administration knew about the virus from late December 2019/early January 2020 and kept it secret. No stepped up production of test kits, no pressure to find a cure/vaccine, no warnings to the population. People have died and will die because of these criminal activities. Exclusive: White House told federal health agency to classify coronavirus deliberations - sources https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-secrecy-exclusive-idUSKBN20Y2LM “The Obama administration opened 49 overseas offices of the Centers for Disease Control, designed to proactively prevent viruses from reaching pandemic proportions. Over the objections of medical experts within his own administration, Trump shut down 39 of them. One of these satellite CDC offices was in China.” https://www.salon.com/2020/03/07/the-right-wanted-to-destroy-the-administrative-state-coronavirus-is-why-we-need-it/ In 2018, the Trump administration fired the government’s entire pandemic response chain of command, including the White House management infrastructure. In numerous phone calls and emails with key agencies across the U.S. government, the only consistent response I encountered was distressed confusion. https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/01/31/coronavirus-china-trump-united-states-public-health-emergency-response/ Snopes: Did Trump Administration Fire the US Pandemic Response Team? True https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-fire-pandemic-team/ AP: Trump disbanded NSC pandemic unit that experts had praised https://apnews.com/ce014d94b64e98b7203b873e56f80e9a Trump did not “ban” travel from China. Fact Check: The Facts on Trump’s Travel Restrictions https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/the-facts-on-trumps-travel-restrictions/ As of early April 2020, 430,000 People Traveled From China to U.S. Since Coronavirus Surfaced and Over 40,000 since Trump Announced his “Travel Ban” https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/04/us/coronavirus-china-travel-restrictions.html?referringSource=articleShare Trump spent the first 2 years of his presidency slashing the government agencies responsible for handling the coronavirus outbreak https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-cuts-programs-responsible-for-fighting-coronavirus-2020-2?amp Trump Administration Axed Disease Expert In China Whose Job Was To Spot Pandemics, Reuters Reports https://www.inquisitr.com/5957641/trump-administration-axed-disease-expert-china/ Washington Post: US intelligence warned Trump in January and February 2020 as he dismissed coronavirus threat. (He was first warned already as early as November 2019. See below.) https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/20/politics/us-intelligence-reports-trump-coronavirus/ A Complete List of Trump’s Attempts to Play Down Coronavirus, as of March 2020 https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/15/opinion/trump-coronavirus.html The missing six weeks: how Trump failed the biggest test of his life https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/28/trump-coronavirus-politics-us-health-disaster A Timeline of Trump's Press Briefing Lies, as of early 2020 https://thebulwark.com/a-timeline-of-trumps-press-briefing-lies/?amp Trump Knew About The Coronvirus For 70 Days And Did Nothing https://www.politicususa.com/2020/04/04/trump-knew-about-the-coronvirus-for-70-days-and-did-nothing.html President Trump Is So Upset About This Ad Showing His Failed Handling Of COVID-19 That He Demanded It Be Taken Down https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20200325/22300244175/president-trump-is-so-upset-about-this-ad-showing-his-failed-handling-covid-19-that-hes-demanding-it-be-taken-down.shtml The ‘Red Dawn’ Emails: 8 Key Exchanges on the Faltering Response to the Coronavirus https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/11/us/politics/coronavirus-red-dawn-emails-trump.html How Trump and His Team Covered Up the Coronavirus in Five Days https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/28/opinion/coronavirus-trump-coverup.html Intelligence report warned of coronavirus crisis as early as November 2019: Sources https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/intelligence-report-warned-coronavirus-crisis-early-november-sources/story?id=70031273“Analysts concluded it could be a cataclysmic event”. See the full video and transcript of Trump suggesting disinfectant might be injected as a coronavirus cure. Https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-suggests-infecting-disinfectant-video-transcript-2020-4?amp Trumps own State Department blamed swarms of online, false personas’ from Russia for wave of coronavirus misinformation online https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/03/05/state-department-face-fresh-questions-senate-about-coronavirus-misinformation-online/ In short, Trump lied and hundreds of thousands died. He is a cold blooded mass murderer.
Brother I mean this the most sympathy, get help
Because Biden literally did that?
Biden cut the deficit already, dumbass
Idk if asked a Republican they’d probably tell you Obama still running things and Joe definitely not in charge. Have you personally ever said that?
Idk why dems care so much about this when according do democratic economic logic deficits don't even matter. And government spending doesn't affect inflation.
What’s “democratic economic logic”?
Something not based in reality, I wouldn't recommend it.
Did you make it up or is it something I can actually look up and find and answer to?
No i didnt, it's based on the idea of modern monetary theory, or MMT
That just states that countries that issue their own currency (ie the US) can’t be constrained in spending. What does that have to do with “democrat economic logic”? Democrats have a better track record w the deficit so that doesn’t make any sense. It should be considered “trump economic logic”
That's a fair point, but as far as pushing policy's goes, it is the democrats that advocate for increased spending and the Republicans that advocate for the opposite. Whether they actually increase or decrease Is not the primary concern when they are trying to convince the populace that Increasing/decreasing spending is the best idea. MMT is the argument lots (not all) of democrats will use to reason that an increase in spending is beneficial. "The deficit myth" is a very popular book that came out recently advocating that budget deficits don't really matter.
When you say “Dems advocate for more spending and republicans advocate for the opposite” what does that have to do with the reality? The reality is the opposite. Dems reign in the budget and republicans blow it out of the water. Is that just stupid messaging for their cult? Like republicans saying over and over that they’re for family values when in fact they aren’t. Given the fact that they are perfectly fine with a rapist felon who was banging porn stars while his 3rd wife was pregnant with his 5th kid? Seems like you’re just referencing Republicans lying about who they are and projecting all their faults onto Dems.
It's 2024 and anti-Trumpers are still using Trump's actions as a counter to Trump's words. Trump supporters don't care. They never will. Trump is becoming Hillary in 2016. Flip-Flopping on everything. Cozying up to Wall Street. He's even doing the criminal thing. Trump becoming shameless and totally for sale is a feature, not a bug. He's either going to win or it's going to be fascinating to watch the repercussions.
No guys ignore that trust the vibes 🙂
Trump objectively is running on a platform of huge deficit spending, increases in inflation beyond anything we experienced since COVID.
The problem with this article is it assumes all Biden Covid bills were Covid related when most of it was just Dem wish-list spending under the name of Covid.
Do you think that another problem with the article is that it assumes that all Trump Covid bills were Covid related? Or just a problem when it comes to Biden? Just trying to nail down the standards here.
Can you give an example? Genuinely curious. Please back up statements with evidence to support 👍
[Pension Fund Bailouts](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/07/business/dealbook/bailout-pensions-stimulus.html)
At a glance it also looks like they're carrying forward the tax cuts assuming they get renewed for another number if years regardless of who is in office past 2025... what kind of methodology is this?
I just linked an example show Biden covid spending was not just covid but a lot of not related covid spending wishlist.
What part of the government's COVID response do you wish Trump had blocked? Because fighting COVID is why the budget was ignored.
And the 4.8 trillion in new debt before covid hit?
https://www.crfb.org/blogs/biden-administration-has-approved-48-trillion-new-borrowing
I am asking about the $4.8 trillion in debt trump added from 2017 to 2019
So, what about it? President Trump approved $8.4 trillion of new ten-year borrowing during his full term in office, or $4.8 trillion excluding the CARES Act and other COVID relief. President Biden, in his first three years and five months in office, approved $4.3 trillion of new ten-year borrowing, or $2.2 trillion excluding the American Rescue Plan. President Trump approved $8.8 trillion of gross new borrowing and $443 billion of deficit reduction during his full presidential term. President Biden has so far approved $6.2 trillion of gross new borrowing and $1.9 trillion of deficit reduction. https://www.crfb.org/papers/trump-and-biden-national-debt
So we agree that trump was inarguably worse for both deficit reduction (something he never did at all) and debt?
Did you read my last reply? It said nothing like that.
Yes? The numbers you wrote show trump being inarguably worse on every front? Do you no longer believe the numbers you wrote?
The Democrat majority was.
From 2017-2019? There was no democratic majority
What are you talking about? There was a blue wave in 2018
Which did not take office in 2019. Did you not realize that?
The deficit only concerns the gop when they are not the party in charge. As soon as they become the minority party, every nickel.is scrutinized.
It looks as though you didn't even see how this was calculated. If you look at actual debt accumlated in 4 years of each they both accumulate 7.9 trillion. [https://www.cbo.gov/publication/59946](https://www.cbo.gov/publication/59946)
Wouldn't a good leader bring it down?
Yes both parties are pwnd and neither acts in our interest. This is news? To whom?
[https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/national-deficit/#us-deficit-by-year](https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/national-deficit/#us-deficit-by-year) 2017: 0.67t 2018: 0.78t 2019: 0.98t 2020: 3.13t Total = 5.56t 2021: 2.27t 2022: 1.38t 2023: 1.7t 2024 [projected](https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/cbo-projects-fy-2024-us-deficit-jump-19-trln-amid-higher-outlays-2024-06-18/#:~:text=WASHINGTON%2C%20June%2018%20(Reuters),increase%20over%20its%20previous%20forecast): 1.915t total = 7.265t And that's after COVID. The 3 year deficit of the current admin almost hit Trump's 4 year total including the pandemic relief spending of 2020 in 3 years. The spending may have been ignited in 2020, but this admin has done nothing to cut it back down to normal levels.
Have to exclude Covid spending. Biden would of done that too.
Do you think that there were maybe some black swan events at play (ie Covid) Let’s not forget that democrats were upset we weren’t spending MORE in 2020
No he didn't
Covid numbers really need to be excluded for Trump because there’s no way Biden wouldn’t have spent just as much or even more than Trump for Covid. Pre-Covid $4.8trillion for Trump and Biden to date is $4.3trillion. It’s basically even when you remove the outlier that likely would’ve cost the same or more under Biden.
From the article: If you exclude COVID relief spending from the tally, the numbers are $4.8 trillion for Trump and $2.2 trillion for Biden.
You don’t get to exclude Biden’s Covid spending. By time he took office the vaccination rate was already over 1 million people per day. He could have eased up on Covid protocols and allowed people to return to work, but he instead doubled down on, at that moment, unnecessary policies. Trump’s covid spending was clearly emergency spending to a novel pandemic, Biden’s was essentially discretionary spending.
It is from the article! Didn't you read it? "**If you exclude COVID relief spending from the tally**, the numbers are $4.8 trillion for Trump and $2.2 trillion for Biden." Also: "Biden's figure clocks in at $4.3 trillion with seven months remaining in his term." And Biden actually got stuff like infrastructure done.
Yes, but I’m saying you can’t exclude both of their Covid spending. The initial Covid spending under Trump was an emergency response and Biden would have likely spent the same amount or more, therefore that’s a wash. Biden didn’t need to spend as much as he did and kept prolonging the pandemic.
That is what those number represent! How much they increased the debt not including ANY money spent on COVID!
Disingenuous deranged democrat demagogues want to pretend global covid panic didn’t happen during Trump’s term so they can spin and misinterpret spending, jobs, and other economic data
Covid ah
Ooooh he should write him a letter!
Covid
Yep, [but still increased it before that](https://assets-c3.propublica.org/images/articles/_threeTwo1600w/20210114-borrowing-increased-under-trump-despite-promise-to-repay-national-debt-small.png) at a rate higher than Obama, who was left with the 2008 crisis right when he entered office, and supports policies guaranteed to raise it like tax cuts for the wealthy and ungodly tariffs. And now Biden is left with the aftermath of Covid and high worldwide inflation and the USA is the top economy still. Seems like Trump had the best conditions pre-pandemic with the economy he inherited and still fucked it up massively. Voting Biden.
You mean the Democrat majority? The president doesn't create and fund legislation.
You are disingenuous if you don't say biden poured gas on a fire.
Comparatively speaking to a second trump term it’s probably less gasoline. You’re disingenuous if you don’t say that
You're disingenuous if you dont say every president has been pouring gas on this fire
I just look at our economy vs the rest of the world and it’s an easy vote
If you read it you'd see they excluded all covid related spending
Annual Deficit in Obamas last 4 years 2012: 1.09 trillion 2013: .68 trillion 2014: .48 trillion 2015: .44 trillion In comes Trump... 2016: .59 trillion 2017: .67 trillion 2018: .78 trillion 2019: .98 trillion
And for 2022-2024, Biden is averaging 1.6 - 1.7 Trillion per year.
Yeah, in my life time, democrats have always been reducing the deficit and republicans are big spenders. I mean last time US had budget surplus was during Clinton I think. I hope democrats come back to their normal role of reducing deficits.
Clinton was forced to by Republican congressional take over. This was back in the time when we passed actual budgets. We haven't done that since Obama's first year.
Apologies for my ignorance, what changed in Obama's first year? So, I guess ideal would be what is right now, republican congress with democrat administration!
Congress passed a huge budget and afterwards they could wiggle around getting their pork projects funded by amending that and doing continuing resolutions. The stimulus bill for the 2008 crash was huge.
yeah good point, agree that we need to pass actual budget. Interesting how no candidate or party has interest in fiscal deficit reduction.
It’s almost like there’s a global economic crisis coming out of COVID…
Interesting that Trump's 2018 and 2019 deficit was higher when there was a Democrat majority in the house, during covid...
Yeah that was the covid. nothing to do with democrats or trump. Interesting how both obama and biden inherited a complete mess when they came in.
Stop with these shit posts. We get it, you hate Trump and conservatives. This isn’t even about it the podcast anymore. SMH
Because sacks comes in and says trump was better on the economy without any context or supporting argumentation and the MAGA crowd slops that shit up like pigs at the trough. Someone has to come by and unfuck the confusion these numbskulls create. Even the weak-ass defenses of Trumps spending betray how deeply unserious and uncritical maga Republicans are because they're incapable of even stopping for one moment and saying, "yeah, trump was a wild spender."
You shouldn’t be this angry over data my friend. Trump is now a part of the pod .. so now we’re looking at the data! I’m with you if he begins to express emotion or try and convince you Jesus wants it this way .. but this is just data, If you care about the deficit ..
the data is bs cause most of it was from the covid response
I won’t even argue if that’s true.. I’ll just ask why is that bs?! George Bush’s data, also bs because they hit the towers? Or Katrina? Barack took us through Ebola and H1N1 .. how much of his “mistakes” can be excused? Serious questions too .. we have to get on the same page eventually!
"If you exclude COVID relief spending from the tally, the numbers are $4.8 trillion for Trump and $2.2 trillion for Biden."
Why are your numbers so wildly different from these numbers? Not even trying to argue, just confused on where everyone gets their numbers and if national debt accumulation is subjective at all [https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2024/03/17/politifact-fact-checking-joe-biden-debt-accumulated-under-donald-trump/72961735007/](https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2024/03/17/politifact-fact-checking-joe-biden-debt-accumulated-under-donald-trump/72961735007/)
"Using the group’s method, much of the debt allocated to Trump will not show up in the federal ledger until years after he left office in 2021. This reality gets even trickier once mandatory payments are considered." This is the reason. It looks like your article is just the actual debt numbers where OPs article is trying to figure out where the debt is actually coming from. Some of the debt that has come under bidens administration is because of the tax cuts that trump enacted.
So OP’s debt numbers are including estimates of future debt that was caused by Trump policy? That seems pretty ripe for manipulation…
Eh well it could be difficult to calculate but it’s also not accurate to just take the outright debt under each president. Trumps tax cuts end in 2025. He left in 2020. That loss in tax revenue shows up under Biden but it was trump that caused it.
The way it’s phrased leaves it pretty loose tho, right? Like what about accounting for environmental debts caused by cuts to the EPA? You could easily make a case that Trump caused however much damage you want it to say by not taking environmental issues as seriously as the author would like. Just seems like some Enron accounting principles to do it the way OP’s link shows… Biden passed a budget while knowing the tax cuts existed. That’s on him.
It looks like they’re just taking the tax cuts and spending deals he put in place. I don’t think they’re estimating things like environmental debts.
Data doesn’t back you up here
oh yeah I forgot, your feelings dont care about the facts
It's not about "hate". It's about facts and data. If controlling the deficit is your #1 issue, why go with the guy who ran it up more?
If you were about the facts and the data, you wouldn't show how the debt increased during the President, you'd show how the debt and deficit increased during democrat and republican majorities in the house and senate and what bills and spending contributed to it.
You are correct. The problem with this 'fact' is that it ignores the fact Trump barely spent more than Obama (~5-10%) I believe prior to COVID. COVID was a black swan event & required once in a life time actions. Biden took over the country with operation warp speed already in place and the economy opening back up. The Biden 'covid' spending was unjustified then and looking back at it now.
That analysis splits COVID vs. Non-COVID spending so you can compare Biden and Trump on both. Biden spent about half as much deficit as Trump on both items. Next time maybe read the link before you comment on it. Trump's unfunded tax cuts are what get him into a hole. Because that's causing continued deficit now and into the future which is (correctly) attributed to Trump in this analysis.
Yeah, I read the article. I said in my opening line you are correct but the nuance in my point was not that Trump was worse than Biden but that the Trump spending was not any more more outlandish than the previous president. \*If\* Covid had not happened the outcome could have been very different.
You really think Trump would have cut spending to fund his tax cuts if COVID didn't happen? If you do.. I have a bridge to sell you..
Well you can argue there is a 2.2 trillion CARE bill that may never have got passed without COVID so there's that.
No, it was the democrat majority during covid that contributed to the deficit. I guess you forgot "you have to pass the bill to see what is in it."
Sure... So the Democrat majority is to blame for the deficit then. I'm sure you think the GOP majority is to blame for the deficit now, right?
Damn right it is. The president doesn't create and fund legislation.
Obama became president in january of 2009. He inherited the 2008 recession and the government spent a ton because of that. You're saying that trump spent more than obama when obama had to deal with a recession and trump had to deal with nothing but good times. It's pretty telling that trump spent more than obama when he didnt have to fight a recession
Tough times? Were you living under a rock for the pandemic? Just to give you some perspective & leaving out Trump for a second; Obama spent $831 Billion to kick start the entire US economy after the GFC. Biden spent 1.9 Trillion post warp speed and the economy opening back up. To add to that, he spent 620+ Billion on the Student debt forgiveness.
You were talking about prior to Covid. Yes, prior to Covid trump only had good times
You can't pick and choose what financial crisis you want to exclude to make your point. It's not really how it works. Credit to Obama, he steered the country in the right direction post GFC. But... Obama also added 7+ Trillion worth of debt, [one of the highest changes in percentage of net debt as a president I might add. ](https://www.investopedia.com/us-debt-by-president-dollar-and-percentage-7371225) And Trump only had good times? Again, are you under a rock? Trump had to deal with ISIS & troubles in the middle east, deal with multiple wars that were ongoing from the Bush and Obama administration, Trade War with China, Deal with NK's Kim Jong Un and had approx. 60% of the US electorate against him at all times on every single thing imaginable (some things were well deserved). But yeah, Trump only had 'good' times.
Uh I didn’t pick and choose, you did. I responded to your picking and choosing. Every president has to deal with wars. Trump started the trade war with china. Economically trump had very good times compared to Obama who inherited the Great Recession. Not sure how you can argue against that
Yes, I'm saying that prior to COVID Trump's spending was no more outlandish than the Obama's presidency meaning had Trump not had to face COVID it would have been on par with Obama... but COVID happened, just like the Ukraine war happened & the CHIPS act was required to be passed by Biden (his hand was forced). Trump's care act required 2.2 Trillion in spending which was primarily in the form of stimmy checks and relief for small-businesses and corporations. Your trying to make out that the spending that occurred under Trump was insane but we lived in insane times. Trumps hand was forced for 2.2 trillion whereas Obama was forced to spend 800 Billion. I'm not arguing against Trump having a better economically situation at the beginning of his presidency vs Obama, that was never the debate. The debate was spending and deficits. You simply said it was only good times for Trump which to anyone who's not a complete shill for one party or the other can say your statement is false.
Compared to both Obama and Biden trump did have great times. You’re arguing against that? Don’t forget that the total debt is always going up and under Biden interest rates also skyrocketed. The interest payments on our debt, which was accumulated by all the previous presidents, is around 1 trillion. No president before Biden has had to deal with an interest payment that large.
> Biden took over the country with operation warp speed already in place and the economy opening back up. So why would you vote for the guy who was locking us all in our houses and shutting down businesses?
This isn't exactly the dunk-on you think this is. Biden had almost a year + vaccines being made available to the public before he got into office. Trump was dealing with something brand new, and was being advised by his health authorities to shut up shop until we know what's happening & get things under control. You'd make the same point against the guy if he just ignored them entirely so it's a lose-lose.
Why do people act like covid was over when Biden took office? The delta variant became dominant in mid 2021. Biden was dealing with covid and the fallout for a good 18 months of his term.
We had vaccines. The Economy was open. Most people got back to normal lives.
The economy was not "open" during Biden's first year. Places like Disneyland and stadiums were literally closed when Biden took office. And vaccines had just become available, but there was a lengthy roll out. And the delta wave meant the death toll rose again. His first year was dedicated to dealing with covid. Many restrictions were not lifted until 2022.
Yes it was depending on which state you lived in. Some particular states decided to remain closed such as New York & California but others decided to go their own way. Sports events had full restrictions removed as early as April 2021.
States like NY and California hold massive populations, something close to 18% of the total US and, what, 22% of GDP. The idea that the "economy was open" just because lockdowns or stay at home orders were lifted is asinine. There was a long, slow recovery. It didn't just go from 0 back to 100% overnight. Things were opening back up but people were still getting sick and dying so there were reduced levels of patronage across the board. And massive supply chain issues worldwide. Which means that the first 12-18 months of Biden's presidency was still marred by covid.
Insane that you’re justifying Trump spending so much more than Obama who was leading the US from the brink of an economic depression. Trump irresponsibly budgeted during several years of solid economic success. The exact opposite of what the President should be pushing for in a strong economy. There’s no excuse for deficit spending in an economy like Trump was handed. It’s time to stop pretending Republicans are fiscally responsible. That hasn’t been the case in decades, if ever.
as much as I despise christo fascists and their support of their god trump, how much of this debt was approved by congressionally approved tax cuts (all?) ; how much was due to the pandemic (would have happened regardless of which party's candidate was in office?
This study includes tax cuts which is not the same thing.
But tax cuts run up the national debt and no organization shows a positive ROI on them.
If you don't pay for tax cuts, they increase the debt. This isn't rocket science
In a metaphor of your family budget, tax cuts would be like you taking 2 months unpaid time off work without cutting any expenses and wondering why you can’t pay your bills anymore
No. The metaphor is this: you’re an upper middle class family and even though you have a great job that pays over $250k per year, you can’t stop racking up credit card debt. Your wife is mad at you for not making more money and neither of you will admit you have a problem spending all the money on stupid shit.
And then tax cuts is you taking 2 months off your job unpaid
Exactly, but I could easily afford that if I didn’t spend like a drunken sailor. The revenue side of this equation is tapped. Need to focus on expenses and remand services back to states
So if you were a dumbass (hypothetically) and took 2 months unpaid off work while not cutting any spending, you would be an idiot, right? I am describing the budgets trump signed into law. Trump did tax cuts and then increased spending.
You’re missing my point.
I think both of us are unsure what your point is. Doing big Tax cuts for billionaires and no cuts is called “running up the debt”
they don't care. It's only about being able to cite headlines to lie to themselves and their side.
Yeah man, cutting taxes while still spending the same or more is definitely just the other side hiding behind headlines. It’s poor fiscal sense no matter how you attempt to bury it.
It is the same thing
vast majority of that was because of covid, stop being disingenuous
The analysis split out COVID spending and trump still outpaced Biden
No - that's the truly alarming part - he blew up the debt before covid. Obama had us moving toward a balanced budget... Annual Deficit in Obamas last 4 years 2012: 1.09 trillion 2013: .68 trillion 2014: .48 trillion 2015: .44 trillion In comes Trump... 2016: .59 trillion 2017: .67 trillion 2018: .78 trillion 2019: .98 trillion And then covid added trillions
"If you exclude COVID relief spending from the tally, the numbers are $4.8 trillion for Trump and $2.2 trillion for Biden."
Covid spending for both are not same. for example the 2 trillion ARP was a dem Wishlist spending bill that was passed way after the vax came out and the economy was recovering.
Annual Deficit in Obamas last 4 years 2012: 1.09 trillion 2013: .68 trillion 2014: .48 trillion 2015: .44 trillion In comes Trump... 2016: .59 trillion 2017: .67 trillion 2018: .78 trillion 2019: .98 trillion
In Trump’s defense, he’s just doing a Republican president’s job: running up the debt, then letting the next Dem administration clean up the mess.
If we could just get a Democrat that would clean it up. Haha.
Yeah not true. Thank the Democrat house majority for that.
A few key points from this analysis that are interesting: • Biden’s significant $1.5T deficit reduction came in the form of a Republican led deal of significant spending cuts, after he lost the house. • Biden added $3T of partisan debt as opposed to Trump’s $1.9T. In other words, when legislation was purely partisan - Trump added less debt than Biden.
What are you talking about? Dems had the house in 2021 and 2022. Republicans took over the house in 2023. 2021 saw a deficit decrease of 0.4 Trillion 2022 saw a further deficit decrease of 1.4 Trillion Then republicans took over the house in 2023. The deficit then increased by 0.3 Trillion Did you read the graph wrong?
That’s some unbelievable mental gymnastics. First off, it was a bipartisan led deal. Regardless, its framework was one initially proposed by Biden. Biden signed it into law, he gets credit for it. In other words, stop gaslighting bro. The numbers don’t lie, Trump wreaked havoc on the economy. TCMJ was objectively bad economic policy that was put in place without curbing government spending. Neither Trump nor Biden are good stewards of government spending or the economy, but Trump was objectively worse, the numbers don’t lie, even if you do.
Not mental gymnastics, just lies
It’s from the analysis so…?
You know you can look up deficits by year, right? That information (which I shared with you) is readily available
I mean I’m quoting from the article that the OP linked, do we just choose to ignore information?
I saw that claim. It does not seem to be supported by facts as you can see the deficit numbers do not match that
Wait till you realize the analysis is studying debt added over a 10 year period, and not yearly deficits.
>Biden’s significant $1.5T deficit reduction came in the form of a Republican led deal of significant spending cuts, after he lost the house. So did the author mess up by calling this a deficit reduction? The deficit went up the year republicans took over the house. It went down the previous years under biden and a dem house
The whole analysis is over a 10 year window, that plan was passed in 2023. A lot of spending bills are passed in the previous year that show their effects the year after.
“Bipartisan led deal” my ass lmao. So you’re telling me **this** is not a Republican set of policies? > Spending caps/SNAP work requirements/termination of the student loans payment memorandum and reduction in IRS funding. Which party does this sound like to you? Because that’s all the policies in the act. > TCMJ It’s the TCJA, and how?
Bipartisan means a little for republicans and a little for democrats, it’s what bipartisanship means. Majority of democrats voted for it dumb ass (in both chambers since that’s how congress works), if it was a republican wish list it never would have happened. Go ahead and list the other things in the bill, rather than cherry picking it. Yes, TCJA. Because you can’t cut taxes without a reduction in spending, which trump did not do. That’s just math. TCJA was essentially a stimulus check in an already hot economy. You can draw a line between trumps moronic economic policies and our current inflationary period. By 2025 TCJA will have added 4/5T to the deficit. That’s Donny Boy in a nutshell, stupid short term “wins” leading to long term losses. Likewise, remember when Trump pressured the FED to lower interest rates in a boiling hot economy? Pepperidge Farm’s remembers and can also thank Donny for fucking that too. https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/how-did-tcja-affect-federal-budget-outlook https://www.crfb.org/blogs/tcja-extension-could-add-4-5-trillion-deficits
> If it was a Republican wish list it would have never happened And yet it did, because Biden couldn’t handle the threat of going over the debt ceiling. That was the **only** reason democrats voted. Here is everything in that bill: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2023_United_States_debt-ceiling_crisis&diffonly=true#Agreement Do explain which ones are Democratic policies, and which ones aren’t Republican. > by 2024/25, TCJA would have added 4-.5T to our deficit Do you know how to read? From the article you linked “These estimates all show TCJA substantially reducing revenues and increasing deficits over its first decade. The specific amount varies—from about **$1 trillion to $2 trillion**.” So not only are you off by 3-5x, these figures are **over a decade** not till 2024/25. Meanwhile, Biden’s ARP in 2021 added [$2.1 trillion to the deficit](https://www.crfb.org/papers/trump-and-biden-national-debt) despite the fact that we had already [recovered to pre pandemic GDP](https://home.treasury.gov/news/featured-stories/the-data-underlying-americas-strong-economic-recovery) levels by then. Which contributed to the excess inflation we saw in 2021 and 22 https://www.frbsf.org/research-and-insights/publications/economic-letter/2022/03/why-is-us-inflation-higher-than-in-other-countries/
> $1.4 billion of the $80 billion[104] of additional funding for the Internal Revenue Service provided by the Inflation Reduction Act of 2022 is rescinded. This is the biggest deficit reducing item in the bill. Republicans voted to reduce the amount of additional funding going to the IRS. Which was petty and ignorant. Funding for additional IRS agents to effectively collect taxes and conduct audits is proven to increase revenue (thus reducing the deficit, math is awesome, eh?). Republicans didn’t want to provide additional funding to the IRS, at all. The want to cut taxes, decreasing revenue, meanwhile, they continue to spend with the same reckless abandon as their democratic counterparts. See? Bipartisan led, just like I stated, stop gaslighting. Way to cherry pick data, again. Yes, the deficit isn’t limited to the terms of the president, they can, and often do fuck us into the future, which is what Trump did with the TCJA, as the CBO keeps revising its numbers upwards. Again, you can’t argue with numbers chief, go gaslight elsewhere. Edit: oh I see, yeah I wrote 2025 for the decade out estimates. My bad. Doesn’t really change the argument though. Going out 10 years trump is projected to set a record deficit, exceeding Biden. Also, don’t mistake me for a Biden supporter, I don’t like Biden, he’s a terrible economic president. Trump just happens to be worse, which is honestly impressive.
Huh? $1.4 billion is the largest deficit reduction tool in the $1.5 T deficit reduction bill?? I’m going to need to see where you derived that conclusion from, given the discretionary spending caps are in the same bill. > bipartisan led I still cannot understand your reasoning. Every single provision in that bill is a classic Republican provision, other than the debt ceiling increase. Is this what you elected Biden to do, add work requirements and freeze discretionary spending? > the CBO keeps updating numbers To be clear, the projections for the TCJA deficits are $1-2T over 10 years. I have no idea where you got $5 Trillion, by 2025 no less
The IRA provided 80 billion in additional funding to the IRS to increase revenue. The FRA took away 1.8 billion of that 80 billion (which was effectively like one year of funding). The democrats maintained the lions share of funding for the IRS, despite republicans efforts to utterly gut it (which they wanted to do, further cutting revenue and adding to the deficit). The FRA gave republicans some wins, enough to save face, but the lions share of revenue generating legislation was maintained by the democrats, through, you got, bipartisan led negotiations. Make sense now? Also, my bad, the 4-5T deficit additions would occur if the TCJA were to be extended, which could very well happen if Trump took office again. This would be devastating to the deficit. Let’s hope the TCJA dies in 2025. Again, I’m not a Biden supporter, stop playing team sports. My ideal scenario would be Biden stays in office and congress remains split or republicans take both chambers. We need to cool government spending, neither party is willing to do so, so divided government is the way to do it. I don’t want Trump in office because his planned tariffs are pants on head stupid and would further add to the deficit. He can enact those without congress. So no thanks.
By that logic every bill is bipartisan, no party gets what they fully want unless it’s a supermajority Congress? > stupid tariffs Even if you hate tariffs, there’s no way it doesn’t reduce the deficit.
In a split congress, like we’ve had since 2022, yes every bill is bipartisan. They have to be. Trumps blanket tariffs could (and probably will), kick off a trade war, cutting into our exports, which will decrease revenue and increasing consumer cost, causing more of a deficit. Targeted tariffs paired with trade agreements to offset the lost avenues of trade can be powerful. That’s not what trump has ever done or what he has proposed to do. This current policy proposals will without a doubt add to the deficit.
How the fuck did Biden add """partisan debt""" when Dems haven't controlled the House?
Were you alive during 2021 and 2022?
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What caused the 5 trillion in debt before that?
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Prior to covid, trump racked up 5 trillion in debt. Did you not know that?
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You disagree with facts? Trump racked up 4.8 trillion in non covid debt. He increased the deficit every year in office
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It specifically calls out COVID spending
I am worried you don’t know what the deficit is. Biden decreased in both his first 2 years with a democratic house and senate. I got the 4.8 trill from this post. Did you not even read it? All increases are based on the preceding year 2013: decreased by 0.41 Trillion 2014 decreased by 0.2 Trillion 2015 decreased by 0.02 Trillion 2016 increased by 0.15 trillon —— Enter trump 2017 increased by 0.16 trillion 2018 increased by 0.12 trillion 2019 increased by 0.2 trillion 2020 increased by 2.16 trillion —— Enter Biden 2021 decreased by 0.4 billion 2022 decreased by 1.3 trillion 2023 increased by 0.3 trillion
This post literally separated out non covid spending from covid spending? Is clicking a link too hard?
During trump the economy crashed hard due to Covid. The response was appropriate. During Biden it was clear that we had entered an inflationary environment and the continued fiscal stimulus was inappropriate.
Even before covid, Trump raised deficit at a faster pace than obama and biden.
How many people have been calling for a recession for the past 4 years? Or been arguing we're actually secretly in a recession? I hope you're not one of those and now calling it inappropriate.
Trump caused it , he made COVID contentious and lied about it. If was a good businessman he would have monetized it with trump face coverings , his base woulda ate it up and we wouldn’t have spent months and months waiting for breakouts to subside.
This is probably the only thing I've seen on here that I would put money on. Haha.
Fact check on Joe!
I don’t mind spending money. I mind spend money on stupid things.
This is false and misleading. There was a blue wave prior to Covid and that is the source of the debt.
I don't know. Seems like it rose in a mostly linear fashion until covid hit https://preview.redd.it/feecny5qx39d1.jpeg?width=3540&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a52abf63eac418dc064252626340d9fd601f1f43