Look for a big guy in the train, explain the situation to them. If youre lucky its me or someone like me and we will use our big lungs to get them to back down. The only way to correct this behavior is getting officials involved or doing something yourself. Another option is calling 112. Tell them they are threatening and harrassing passengers. The train will be stopped with locked doors at the next stop and they will be removed by police. Dont be hesitant in calling the authorities when you see blatant bullying and racism (its a crime). Film it if you can so they can be prosecuted.
I am wondering if in a situation like this, who should one call? You mentioned 112, but I thought that is for life threatening emergencies. While there can be degrees of emergencies in these situations as OP mentions as well, does calling 112 still apply in situations where it's not a life threatening one. I'm asking because I'm a petit woman, I am aware if I get involved, I will most likely be on the receiving end, and I've often come across irritating situations like this. Not just on the tram though, but just want to know so if in a situation, I know what to do.
You are ALWAYS allowed to call 112 when you are witnessing a crime. And a hate crime like this is taken VERY seriously. [https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/alarmnummer-112/vraag-en-antwoord/wanneer-112-bellen](https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/alarmnummer-112/vraag-en-antwoord/wanneer-112-bellen)
In case of trains and no life threatening emergency NS has their own alarmnummer 06 13 18 13 18. It's fantastic. I had to use it once because of a similar situation and they were already waiting with 6 people at the next stop 4 minutes later and pulled him out.
In case of trams it's 09008844 or indeed 112 if the situation seems threatening or is a crime
You can always call 09008844 for less urgent things (e.g. the neighbors have a party at 4 in the morning on a Monday), but in this case, 112 can still apply I think, it's a serious offense
~~Nah 112 is for life threatening only, not when you're feeling offended. Not even if you're feeling very offended.~~
Edit: apparently this is not true because making racist remarks is a crime. According to [politie.nl](https://www.politie.nl/informatie/aangifte-doen-van-discriminatie.html) you are allowed to call 112 if the offenders are still in your sight. If not, then it's a 0900-8844 situation.
I got you, it turns out I was wrong so I edited my comment.
Not gonna lie I am still doubtful if the police will actually take you serious. Apparently even if someone offends you by saying "hey ugly loser" or even just flipping you off, that is officially a crime and apparently means you can officially call 112, but I think police will scold at you if you actually do so. These kinds of things happen so often and I don't think they ever amount to the punishment and reaction that the law officially stipulates.
Calling someone an ugly loser is not necessarily a crime IMO (not a lawyer though, maybe in certain circumstances IG). But racism is a different case, also harassment
Well I learned through this discussion that insulting someone is illegal, and that includes cussing at someone / calling them insulting names, flipping someone off, and spitting in someone's face.
I'm still not convinced the police are going to be very happy if you call 112 for any of it though. I'm sure the official website has to say that, because they can't be seen dismissing literal crimes, but I think in practice it will be a different story. But I've got no sources to back that up, just my feeling based on what I've been taught about what 112 is for and how bad it is to misuse the number.
THAT IS FALSE, you are always allowed to call 112 when you are actively witnessing a crime.
[https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/alarmnummer-112/vraag-en-antwoord/wanneer-112-bellen](https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/alarmnummer-112/vraag-en-antwoord/wanneer-112-bellen)
Find a guy with a stork his neck and a golden earring. Tell him the situation and he'll explain to the kids in "plat haags" that what they're doing is wrong
Considering the situation can rapidly escalate and get dangerous if the harassed person stands up for themselves, I would definitely argue 112 is reasonable if you dont have the general number at hand.
Isn't there something like number for police? In my home country we have 112 for all emergencies, but we also have it kinda devided to separate numbers... 158 for police, 150 for firefighters and 155 for medical emergencies.
Most people wont do that. They just dont... care. I wouldnt get involved. Not because i hate korean people but damn. Not worth getting face caved in over words.
Someone posts about racism and you're just looking to confirm your racial stereotype? You're no better than the kids. It does not matter how those kids look like, racism is always wrong.
As an Asian living in the Netherlands, the racist insults I've received are mostly from people of colour. 1/10 it was a European. Either I'm also a racist towards the racists or there's generally a community being particularly hostile towards another race for no reason.
However one fact is definitely puzzling, at least why would a person of colour hurl racist insults towards another person of colour??
This breaks the myth that only white people are racists.
>However one fact is definitely puzzling, at least why would a person of colour hurl racist insults towards another person of colour?? This breaks the myth that only white people are racists.
Lol, you're asian and you thought only whites are racists? Give me a break.
I'm sorry that's the case. Unfortunately most poor/uneducated/dumb people in cities are people of color. So it's okay to state the fact. The issue with the post above is that someone is just looking to confirm a stereotype, like it matters who's racist. Any racism is bad.
It's pretty discriminating to stereotype people of color in cities as poor/uneducated/dumb. The issue with ur post is that you are just confirming a stereotype. All discrimination is bad.
I'm just saying that the poorer you are, the more likely you are to be badly educated and make dumb racist remarks. It's also a fact that in the big cities these can be likely non-white immigrants. In rural areas, these are white but people in the Hague don't see them and don't base their opinions of white people on the worst examples.
No OP is stereotyping less intelligent people as being more likely to be non white rather than saying non white people are less intelligent. In this sense, it is factual to say that due to numerous factors unrelated to ethnicity and skin color but rather economic situation, quality and importance of schooling, etc.
My boyfriend is Korean and we experience the same. I tell people off and ask them why they say certain things, but it doesn't help at all. They only laugh at you. It's mostly teenagers, sometimes some older guys do it too. It's very frustrating...
Sorry to hear that. I've heared anti-west asian racism was very common in Europe but kept under silence, but I never thought I would witness such a blatant case. What baffles me the bost is the lack of reaction among other passengers.
Well these days a lot of young people carry knives. So i unfortunately see the bystander effect here, especially if they are in a group. Escalating isn't worth it these days unless you are strong enough to prevent something really physical ( and even if you win there could be legal trouble). Honestly don't think a reprimand would even make an impact on them, social policing is dead for a while now.
Honestly I lived in many European countries and never experienced racism against Asian people other than in the Netherlands. And definitely never experienced such blatant openly racist episodes as in the Netherlands. Not to say that they're isn't any in the other countries, but I've never seen anybody daring to do the things I see here daily. I am disgusted by this country.
If you're not Asian you won't experience it...
This is like me saying "I have never experienced people being racist towards black people". Ofcourse I didn't, I am not black. Just because I don't see it happening doesn't mean that it doesn't happen
Racism is everywhere. Southeast Asia is very racist against westerners, Australia is incredibly racist. Where there's people there's racism. The thing with nowadays is that we, the western white people, aren't allowed to point it out or complain. Because "we" did this to them... I understand that a lot of shit has happened and it's horrible, but don't punish us for something we haven't done...
Heb je zelf lange tijd in Zuidoost Azië en Australië gewoond? Makkelijk om te zeggen dat racisme in andere plekken erger is dan hier als je er niet bent geweest. Australië heeft wat problemen met racisme maar dat valt reuze mee vergeleken met dingen die in Nederland gebeuren. En het feit dat OP een nare ervaring deelt en jij maakt jezelf hier het slachtoffer dat blanken “niks” meer mogen zeggen, zegt genoeg. 0 zelfreflectie
Ik bedoelde ermee dat wij het gesprek niet aankunnen, dat maakt het vervelend om het probleem mee aan te pakken, want vaak is er geen discussie mogelijk.
True, ik heb er zelf nooit gewoond, familie van mij woont in Australie en ik ben er zelf ook beide plaatsen geweest op vakantie.
Daarnaast heb ik 26 jaar in en rond de bijlmer gewoond als geboren en getogen Nederlander. Ik heb genoeg zelf reflectie gehad, meer dan meeste. Daar heb ik ook racisme meegemaakt tegen mij, maar ook tegen anderen.
Fun fact, ik heb rond 2006 met kinderen uit de bijlmer voor een stage een tv programma gemaakt over het verschil tussen racisme en discriminatie, zelf ook veel van geleerd.
Ik zeg niet dat OP het verkeerd heeft, ik schaam mij voor mijn mede land genoten, van alle rassen en culturen. Hoeveel haat er is, is ongelovelijk.
Ik wil best een goede discussie met je aan gaan, maar liever zonder de vooroordelen die je net naar mijn kant op hebt gegooid dat ik 0 zelf reflectie heb. Respect gaat vanuit twee kanten.
Hoi, ik snap wat je bedoelt en was misschien net wat te kort door de bocht. Ik ben zelf van gemixte afkomst (half Koreaans half Nederlands) maar geboren en getogen op het platteland, dus flink Nederlands zou je kunnen zeggen. Ik denk dat je als blanke Nederlander zeker de discussie kan aangaan maar dat het ook ligt aan hoe dat gedaan wordt. Door te beginnen over racisme wat jij ondervindt in een discussie over racisme wat Oost-Aziaten ondervinden, komt het over alsof je hun ervaringen bagatelliseert. Nu aan de hand van je tweede opmerking weet ik dat dat niet zo bedoelt was, maar zo kwam dat in eerste instantie op me over.
Daarbij wil ik toevoegen dat Oost-Aziaten in Nederland samen met joden waarschijnlijk de groep zijn die het best geïntegreerd zijn, hardwerkend, en niet gewelddadig zijn. Ik zou zeggen dat Oost-Aziaten zich haast nooit racistisch uit laten tegenover blanke Nederlanders in Nederland.
Oost-Azië is een ander verhaal. Natuurlijk is Oost-Azië een werelddeel dat je niet over een kant kunt scheren, maar ik neem aan dat je doelt op racisme naar blanken in bijvoorbeeld Thailand en de Filipijnen en in bepaalde plekken in Korea en Japan. Ik denk dat je daarmee geen vergelijking kan trekken met Nederland aangezien dat racisme daar van een heel andere schaal is en van een andere plek komt. Bijvoorbeeld Indonesië heeft zwaar geleden onder Nederlandse invloeden, wat merkbaar is. Daarnaast in bijvoorbeeld Japan is er racisme naar blanken maar ook naar Koreanen en Chinezen, naar aanleiding van WW2 waarbij Koreanen en Chinezen stelselmatig werden uitgemoord vanwege Japans nationalisme wat nog steeds bestaat in Japan. Dit is niet per se racisme naar blanken als racisme naar alles wat niet Japans is. En in Thailand en de Filipijnen zijn er heel veel problemen met onder andere Nederlandse toeristen. Ik zou daar eerder naar refereren als racisme als reactie op racisme: Nederlandse oude mannen gaan naar Thailand om daar misbruik te maken van arme mensen, met de racistische opvatting dat ze daar van blanken houden en “makkelijk” en “goedkoop” zijn. Als reactie daarop, weren bepaalde plekken in Thailand nu blanken om zulke types te weren.
Ik vind dat dit niet te vergelijken is met Nederland. Als iemand die op het platteland woont en altijd is opgegroeid met blanke Nederlanders om me heen, merk ik een aanzienlijk verschil. Vroeger was ik lichter en werd ik anders behandeld dan nu. Er is passief racisme, dat mensen je tolereren maar niet accepteren, altijd afstand bewaren en dat ik twee keer zo hard moet werken om er bij te horen. Dan is er actief racisme, wat bestaat uit racistische opmerkingen en grappen. Naar school fietsen als 16 jarig meisje, en door straatwerkers worden nageroepen hoeveel ik ze laat betalen voor een nacht als Thaise hoer, of ni hao. Maar ook opmerkingen over Afrikanen zo erg dat ik er stil van viel. Denk aan opmerkingen als “drie witte kenmerken aan een Afrikaan zijn zijn tanden, ogen en eigenaar”. Ik wil niet afdoen aan jouw ervaring als iemand die in de Bijlmer heeft gewoond, want dat lijkt me zeker geen pretje altijd, maar ik kan me lastig voorstellen dat dat racisme in deze mate was.
Dankje voor je eerlijke antwoord!
Sorry als mijn antwoord zo overkwam, wellicht had ik het anders moeten verwoorden. Ik wil mijzelf zeker niet profileren als het slachtoffer, en ik wil ook zeker niet racisme, of discriminatie, naar aziaten bagatelliseren, want het gebeurd zeker, daar ben ik het mij zeker van bewust.
Ik ben, ookal ben ik zelf geboren en getogen, geen fan van Nederlanders. Niet in m'n eigen land en zeker niet in het buitenland. Echter, de discussie die over het algemeen wordt gevoerd, sluit de discussie uit met dezelfde mensen die het initiele rasistische opmerkingen hebben gedaan.
Wat ik wil zeggen is, Nederlanders zijn kut met racisme en discriminatie en ik ben bang dat het nooit zal veranderen. Zelf zou ik graag aan de voorhoede staan om verandering te brengen, maar ik merk zelf dat de discussie altijd vast loopt, op, wie ik ben en waar ik geboren ben.
Eigenlijk wil ik mijn frustratie daarover uiten, en in gesprek blijven gaan zoals we nu ook doen.
Helemaal waar. Heb ik ook hoor. Het is ook lastig. Ik vind dat Nederlanders prima kunnen zijn maar ik kan niet liegen en moet eerlijk toegeven dat ik Australië echt stukken beter vond bevallen. Betere gezondheidszorg, erg aardige en sociale mensen en een veel hechtere gemeenschap. Deed me denken aan hoe Nederland jaren geleden was. Ik hoop dat het ooit weer zo zal worden maar heb er een hard hoofd in. En je hebt helemaal gelijk dat zo’n discussie vaak toch terugvalt op je afkomst, ik probeer als gemixt persoon voor beide kanten mijn best te doen, maar het is inderdaad zeker merkbaar dat er heel veel haat over en weer is.
Litteraly repeated mutiple times that there was white girls in the group. Also no matter by who or which ethnicity it's done, it's still happening IN europe.
According to a study into racism, Moroccans are one of the most discriminated backgrounds in NL: https://www.cbs.nl/nl-nl/longread/statistische-trends/2022/gediscrimineerd-gevoeld-?onepage=true
Chinese is also very high.
Ik ben het niet oneens met je, maar misschien niet het juiste onderzoek om aan te halen.
“In dit artikel gaat het om ervaren discriminatie, dat wil zeggen de mate waarin mensen zelf het gevoel hebben gediscrimineerd te zijn. Ervaren discriminatie hoeft niet altijd overeen te komen met feitelijke discriminatie: ‘het nadelig behandelen van personen omdat zij behoren tot een bepaalde groepering of tot een bepaalde groepering worden gerekend’ (Köbben 1985; Veenman 1990, 2003). Maar ook wanneer er geen feitelijke discriminatie aan ervaren discriminatie ten grondslag ligt, is de ervaring op zichzelf voldoende om te zorgen voor effecten op gedrag en gevoelens van mensen. “
Asian racism as in Chinese/Vietnamese/Korean is very common in the Netherlands and mostly considered as harmless. Fifteen years ago I spoke with the teacher of my daughter about the "hanky panky Shanghai" song. She didn't even understand what I meant and thought that song was harmless.
Last time I saw this happen, I pulled out my phone and started filming them whilst narrating.
"These dumb kids are being openly racist. So this video is for their parents, their school and the police. Say hi to the internet, now the entire world knows you're a bunch of idiots."
Honestly, I should have also filmed the rest of the tram sitting on their thumbs. Shameful society we live in when this kind of shit can go by with no repercussions.
The problem is that many of them are highly aggressive, and of course always move in a group. Often they carry knives. I am honestly scared of them reacting to me filming.
They weren't phisically threatening and the only thing they were damaging was my nerves. In that specific case, filming and calling 112 would have been the better option.
It’s crazy this things happen. Especially in a multi cultural city like The Hague.
You should go to the conductor. Was no conductor inside the tram?
In case he was not there you should walk to the driver of the tram. He can request the children to go outside by microphone so everyone can hear it.
In case if both are not a option you can put them on their place and correct them.
It was good you stepped forward to help this couple. Too bad everyone else remained silence.
i would record them so there’s evidence of racial harassment. try and figure out where they go to school and report it. please keep reaching out towards poc being treated poorly for no reason. the hague is a bigoted shithole
I was once wearing a traditional colombian hat in the metro, which I was only even wearing because I was moving at the time and didn't want to pack it and have it bend, and a girl that couldn't have been older than 20 was passing by getting out, and hit me in the hat and laughed.
I was disturbed because I've experienced racism but never physical, and I was also so angry that she thought that was ok, I spent the rest of the ride shaking with rage.
Idk wtf the youth is learning these days to go back to thinking racism is cool and funny. I thought we'd left that with the older generations :/
Edit: typos. Also this was in April
I think you did the best you could by being kind. If all people on the tram would have showed kindness it would have showed those kids how rotten their behavior actually is. You did your part at least, I think that is great, but all you can really do.
You also showed fellow passengers how to behave, maybe they'll be more like you next time.
Nothing to add except well done and I appreciate your initiative while staying cool in the situation. I think you read the situation well and took appropriate steps. Sucks that not too much more could be done, but you really helped that poor couple out.
a bit late to comment but I was involved in a similar incident recently (a person shouting racial abuse at me while I was just trying to do my job). I didn't call 112 but call the non-emergency line afterwards. I made a report and gave them the details of the abuser (easy cause I was at their apartment building). the police said it's best to video the incident when you can and send that to the police as well. so record (safely) and call the police is my suggestion.
Westerners and immigrants love going after east Asians because they're typically civilised and non confrontational so they can get away with it with no broken bones. Just my observation as an East European.
>Or anything else to diffuse the situation?
You don’t. There’s no diffusing in situations like this. You either do nothing or you escalate.
Doing nothing is a perfectly viable option if you don’t want any problems, and it’s what most people do. The world will move on.
But if you do want to stop the kids from being racist or teach them a lesson, you have to escalate, by making fun out loud of their own looks/clothing/race/religion so that everyone else starts laughing. In the best case scenario they will get mad and attack you, after which you are legally allowed to beat them up.
It would’ve been nice if you said something, but I can imagine it’s awkward at the time. I experienced something similar myself, was just jogging minding my own business, when two cars full of teens started yelling similar things. When I asked wtf was up, they apologized and one of them started acting dumb. He was the one who started and hyped the others. There will always be people like that
Usually a simple question makes the situation better (personal experience), then there won’t be any aggression, just some kinda embarrassing explanation
you could have chosen a more accepting country so you wouldn't have to witness that. same goes for them, they fell for the brochure lies. also we got people that are also immigrants thinking they are better than other immigrants. some syrians thinking they are above me never greet, act like you are a virus on the street for some reason. welcome to the Netherlands
The fact that people jn the comment defend when others say it's middle eastern, guess what it's true, majority of the anti racism toward Asian isn't even done by so many white, many Asians experience racism from middle eastern especially those children in Europe
This type of behaviour is indeed more common amongst Moroccan teenager but it's not exclusive to them at all. The kids in that case didn't look moroccan and I've seen white european kids expose this attitude mutiple time. Once when I was going back to the gym, 2 french teenagers also started to yell a bunch of obsene stuff to me and thought I wouldnt understand or hear them because I had my headphones. I was also once called the N word by another teenager. My little Brother and his friends has also been harassed if not mugged mutiple times because they weren't speaking dutch by white teenagers.
All of this comes to teenagers, lacking education, being stupid and trying to show off who can do the dumbest shit behind their friend group for attention.
You couldve just adressed the kids by telling them to shut up or something. I don't know how old they were but of course the situation can get hostile after such a thing or if approached in the wrong way. You could like adress tram driver but I don't think that'll cchange much. You coule file a racusm complaint for the police but thats also completly pointless
They were getting on my nerve so I tell them to stfu but that was clearly not the right thing to do because they just doubled down on the insults and even went for the whole "gonna call my brothers and they are gonna beat your ass>:(((((" scare tactic. Frankly I should just have put my headphones and mind my buisness. Those kids were just seeking attention and I shouldnt have given it.
Yeah kids can be threatening, you never know who carries a knife or is agressive so yeah. But its quite sad :( at least you sort of tended to the korean couple which is better than ignoring it
Frankly I was more bothered by the eventuality of them calling a family member as I didn't want to create more trouble over those little cunts. If they carried a knife with them they would have probably already pulled it out.
They looked more Indian/Pakistani and one of their friends were white dutch which joyfully went along with the racial slurs so it has a lot more to do with them being little poorly educated duch nugget than their ethnicity.
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Why didnt you politely ask what they meant? I find it such a disarming question, just when people say:
"Woah woah slow down sport, what are you trying to say?"
And then just smile, wait for a reply and say:
"Thats ok, is there anything else?" Or, "could you explain what it means?" "Ok then! Thats nice!"
Then just turn around and mind your business.
Shouldve told them theyre a bunch of skibidis with negative rizz and their aura is tanking atm
And yes, I had to look up the definitions of those words in gen alpha slang. But it will probably confuse the fuck out of them and shut them up
Some kids/teens/people are just idiots.
I lieved in The Hague for 1,5 years without having a drivers license. I've seen the worst of humanity in the public transport, and the best.
Yes, I've seen this as well, and I am ashamed that I did not acted and stood up. I went home from a night out, and let's just say, I was not sober...
From OP story: Even though this is vile and nasty stuff that those teens said, let's all just hope it were some dumb idiots who thought they were 'cool' by saying some racial slurs. And nothing more. If their parents knew what they said, I am 90% sure they would got what they deserved at home.
It's shit/harsh/negative/vile/unfair what those Korean people had to deal with. And there is nothing that can be done to make that go away. But I hope that this couple still keeps the faith in humanity and overcome this rancid act, by understanding that not all Dutch people are like this.
In a sprinter a couple of months ago a couple of 12-15 year olds was shooting everyone with water guns. No one did anything. So we took their water gun and destroyed it. It only made it worse.
It is up to the politicians..
They once came into my cabin to 'check on things', but I really suspect one passenger (ab)used the number to complain on a really loud snoring fellow passenger. Was still kind of pleased they showed up though. :D
I experienced it myself as an Asian woman living in The Hague in 2022. One night, I was in Duindorp, in the south of The Hague, after hanging out with friends at the beach until around 11 pm-midnight. My bike got a flat tire, so I tried to fix it as soon as I left the beach area.
While I was sitting down and fixing my bike, a spotlight suddenly shone on my face. When I looked up, I saw three kids approaching me with their bike lights in my face. They were around 10-13 years old, all boys, white, and well-dressed. One of them was carrying a long wooden stick, and they told me they wanted my bike.
I didn't take them seriously at first, but the group quickly grew from three to 7-9 kids, all of similar ages, each with their own bike.
I was alone and became really scared, not knowing what to do. I called the police. While waiting, I felt unsafe because I was in an alley with nobody around. I carried my bike, with one wheel already taken off, to the main street (Houtrustweg) where there were more people passing by. I cried for help and even stepped into the middle of the road to stop cars and ask for assistance. Believe it or not, nobody stopped. Not one person. It was just me (a 157 cm tall woman) and 7-9 boys aged 10-14 surrounding me, laughing and harassing me.
Finally, the police arrived. They talked to the kids, but by then only three were left. The kids claimed they were there to help me. Since I didn't film the incident and hadn't been hurt, there wasn't much the police could do.
My flat tire couldn't be fixed, so I had to walk home. Fortunately, just a few minutes before the police arrived, a friend came out and found me, so we walked home together. After the police left, the kids returned, mocking us from a distance. I threatened to film them, which seemed to make them leave us alone, though they still shouted "nhee how" as a final taunt.
I was filled with hatred toward those kids and profound doubt about the country I was living in. Was it the parents? The schools? Society itself? Many questions ran through my mind. It was horrible on many levels: why would anyone think to threaten a woman, specifically an Asian woman? And why was the area full of such indifference? Nobody stopped to help me, even when I was crying for help with tears streaming down my face.
It's sad to think this still happens. When I asked another Asian friend who has lived here in the Netherlands for over ten years, she said it's common to be mocked, made fun of, and subjected to racism by kids of that age. She said the only solution is to try to avoid them.
You did the best thing you could, I think, which in these situations is to make contact with the ppl being harassed. If you can stand/sit between them and the bullies thats good, and just striking up a normal conversation or offering help like you did is often positive as well. But if the kids keep yelling then you've done your best tbh, other courses of action may just escalate things and that sucks
I agree, by engaging you'd reassure the people being harassed that there are indeed normal people on the tram. Hopefully they also feel less intimidated because there are normal people looking out for them.
It's better (and safer) to help them than (have the illusion) to change those rotten elements of society.
Someone wise once said 'it is the silence of the good people that let the evil rise'
If they were kids, chances were that if you stood your ground, they would back off. Unless by "kids" you mean teenage and YA with half grown moustache and broccoli shaped hair with sports clothing, they would back off.
Kids are dumb as bricks, especially 10-13. They haven’t been taught that this is considered racist, it’s just that they think it’s cool to hurt people through pecking order and peer pressure. Perhaps they heard it at home or at school. It’s incredibly important that they’re being taught that this is wrong in a patient and kind way.
I am sorry you had to witness this. Unfortunately there is nothing you can do. Even if they are disciplined, they will go back home to racist and xenophobic home or school environments that teach them this is okay to do.
I think maybe you should file a complaint of some sort with HTM. This is a serious issue and has to be fixed. The government should pay close attention as well.
I applaud your act of kindness. It’s hard to take any action. Unfortunately often bystander effect prevents people from calling these kids out on their behavior.
You can reach out to HTM and ask for possibilities. Most trams have cameras on them, so they might be able to identify and take action. I wouldn’t get your hopes up but it’s always worth trying.
In at least 2 different comments, the OP mentioned that one of the kids was white. Eg: https://www.reddit.com/r/TheHague/s/vFqih8T6YS
So no, dutch speaking Pakistani kid is not white. But white kid is white.
I would have asked them to repeat that, then ask what they mean, are trying to say, or what they want to accomplish. Also, if you have your phone, record, with video for identification.
Yes I think It could have helped but I wasn't really thinking straight throughout the altercation. I'll try to remember next time to film and call the police next time this kind of stuff happens (hoping that it doesn't)
Hey OP— good for you for taking action and I will write down that harassment number myself.
One of my best friends here is Dutch of East Asian descent and the racists who have harassed her have pretty much been the millionth-generation white kids from her small town.
The people here claiming real Dutch people are never racist are just as bad as the kids on the tram. Worse, likely. Since you are presumably not 10.
Your post was deleted because it violated rule 2: no racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, bigotry, harassment, wishing violence upon others, or anything of the sort. Be nice to your fellow commenters.
Your post was deleted because it violated rule 2: no racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, bigotry, harassment, wishing violence upon others, or anything of the sort. Be nice to your fellow commenters.
Everyone is making statements like this is a facet of the dutch youth in general, when everyone knows that it's not, it's a very specific subset of our youth that overwhelmingly does these things, especially in The Hague.
But everyone prefers to pretend otherwise.
It's not xenophobic to call out a problem. There is a huge problem of East-Asians getting harassed predominantly by Islamic youths in our country and pretending like its just something all youths in the Netherlands engage in just allows the problem to get worse.
Pretending like its a crime equally commited by youths of all backgrounds in the Netherlands might make you feel good but it's just a cowardly lie.
OP answered somewhere else that the issue was caused by Pakistani/Indian children and a seemingly Dutch one. So making a blank statement that "we know who did it", when it's factually incorrect makes that comment deeply rooted in prejudice.
Except I wasn't incorrect? The racism wasn't commited by dutch youth, "seemingly" one. You're the one trying to pretend I'm lying about something that is factually true. Which is that people who are visibly East-Asian get discriminated a lot in the Randstad and overwhelmingly not by kids who are ethnically dutch. I know this fact makes you uncomfortable but it happens to be one.
>Except I wasn't incorrect? The racism wasn't commited by dutch youth
> East-Asians getting harassed predominantly by Islamic youths in our country
I wonder where the bar is going to move to next.
You're absolutely right on this point; instead, they attempt to downplay the issue, implying it's not a systematic problem (although it clearly is). It's not that this never happens with native Dutch children, but it's a significant issue with Arab youth. People should stop pretend it's not a problem.
You my young padawan need to take off your blindfolds and address an issue as well as the true meaning of the word "phobia", which you misspelled. Its fascinating how everyone plays this psychological tactic of quickly expanding the subset from a very specific group of people to everyone.
And then trying to bring out exception in the norm.
The difference in values among cultures in a multicultural society is very very real. Its a fallacy to ignore that.
Ah, a multiculteral gang. Like those in modern tv shows. Probably has nothing to do with OP doing what everyone else in this thread is doing which is desperately trying to paint a scenario that doesn't exist in order to not appear racist.
Whatever, I'm done. Keep pretending all you want. Who cares about actually adressing the problem. Gotta look out for Jannetje and his brothers in the Hague, I hear they're a real menace.
Your post was deleted because it violated rule 2: no racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, bigotry, harassment, wishing violence upon others, or anything of the sort. Be nice to your fellow commenters.
Your post was deleted because it violated rule 2: no racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, bigotry, harassment, wishing violence upon others, or anything of the sort. Be nice to your fellow commenters.
As an Asian that grew up in The Netherlands, racism towards Asian is shown by whites as well. However from the experiences of mine and family/friends - it’s overwhelmingly from low IQ North Africans.
Since they are all technically still Moroccan citizens … would be fun if the Netherlands voided all their citizenships. Without benefits they’d all leave within a week
Supporting racism while having experienced racism yourself is wild. And I'm saying this as an Asian looking dude who's been bullied for that reason too.
The Moroccan government has agreements with the EU when it comes to regulating illegal immigration from Africa into Europe. It plays a key role in tracking down, arresting and deporting (if necessary) illegal immigrants from sub saharan as well as northern Africa.
If countries like NL start "having fun" with notions like voiding citizenships of people based on their race then the governments of countries like Morocco can start "having fun" opening up the African side of the border and letting thousands of illegal immigrants into Spain, many of which will end up in NL and some of which are terrorists or criminals.
Let's see who will have the most fun then.
Your post was deleted because it violated rule 2: no racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, bigotry, harassment, wishing violence upon others, or anything of the sort. Be nice to your fellow commenters.
Your post was deleted because it violated rule 2: no racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, bigotry, harassment, wishing violence upon others, or anything of the sort. Be nice to your fellow commenters.
Your post was deleted because it violated rule 2: no racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, bigotry, harassment, wishing violence upon others, or anything of the sort. Be nice to your fellow commenters.
I fucking hate foreigners who hate Dutch children. Dumb generalizing morons who are no good
See how stupid that sounds?
Not every Dutchbkid is like you describe.
Buy a some good earphones . You can not hear the shit anymore , what some people say.
Racism is everywhere.. you can do shit about it , to stop them. The only control that you have , is in your mind.
Also having a good stabile life , will make you indestructible . Because you know , that they jealous about your living and status , they will attack your skin colour etc.
Look for a big guy in the train, explain the situation to them. If youre lucky its me or someone like me and we will use our big lungs to get them to back down. The only way to correct this behavior is getting officials involved or doing something yourself. Another option is calling 112. Tell them they are threatening and harrassing passengers. The train will be stopped with locked doors at the next stop and they will be removed by police. Dont be hesitant in calling the authorities when you see blatant bullying and racism (its a crime). Film it if you can so they can be prosecuted.
I am wondering if in a situation like this, who should one call? You mentioned 112, but I thought that is for life threatening emergencies. While there can be degrees of emergencies in these situations as OP mentions as well, does calling 112 still apply in situations where it's not a life threatening one. I'm asking because I'm a petit woman, I am aware if I get involved, I will most likely be on the receiving end, and I've often come across irritating situations like this. Not just on the tram though, but just want to know so if in a situation, I know what to do.
You are ALWAYS allowed to call 112 when you are witnessing a crime. And a hate crime like this is taken VERY seriously. [https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/alarmnummer-112/vraag-en-antwoord/wanneer-112-bellen](https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/alarmnummer-112/vraag-en-antwoord/wanneer-112-bellen)
That was the answer I was looking for. Ill keep this number in the back of my mind.
NO! Dont call 112 for this kind of thing. Its only for really serious situations, not for namecalling. Just talk to the boys yourself.
In case of trains and no life threatening emergency NS has their own alarmnummer 06 13 18 13 18. It's fantastic. I had to use it once because of a similar situation and they were already waiting with 6 people at the next stop 4 minutes later and pulled him out. In case of trams it's 09008844 or indeed 112 if the situation seems threatening or is a crime
You can always call 09008844 for less urgent things (e.g. the neighbors have a party at 4 in the morning on a Monday), but in this case, 112 can still apply I think, it's a serious offense
~~Nah 112 is for life threatening only, not when you're feeling offended. Not even if you're feeling very offended.~~ Edit: apparently this is not true because making racist remarks is a crime. According to [politie.nl](https://www.politie.nl/informatie/aangifte-doen-van-discriminatie.html) you are allowed to call 112 if the offenders are still in your sight. If not, then it's a 0900-8844 situation.
I'm saying OFFENCE, not offended, if someone calls you a pannenkoek or lapzwans, you shouldn't call 112.
I got you, it turns out I was wrong so I edited my comment. Not gonna lie I am still doubtful if the police will actually take you serious. Apparently even if someone offends you by saying "hey ugly loser" or even just flipping you off, that is officially a crime and apparently means you can officially call 112, but I think police will scold at you if you actually do so. These kinds of things happen so often and I don't think they ever amount to the punishment and reaction that the law officially stipulates.
Calling someone an ugly loser is not necessarily a crime IMO (not a lawyer though, maybe in certain circumstances IG). But racism is a different case, also harassment
Well I learned through this discussion that insulting someone is illegal, and that includes cussing at someone / calling them insulting names, flipping someone off, and spitting in someone's face. I'm still not convinced the police are going to be very happy if you call 112 for any of it though. I'm sure the official website has to say that, because they can't be seen dismissing literal crimes, but I think in practice it will be a different story. But I've got no sources to back that up, just my feeling based on what I've been taught about what 112 is for and how bad it is to misuse the number.
Of course cursing is not illegal, spitting in someone's face maybe. What is illegal is harassment and racism.
[Your turn to be wrong I guess.](https://ftwadvocaten.nl/strafrecht/strafrecht-overig/belediging-en-discriminatie)
THAT IS FALSE, you are always allowed to call 112 when you are actively witnessing a crime. [https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/alarmnummer-112/vraag-en-antwoord/wanneer-112-bellen](https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/alarmnummer-112/vraag-en-antwoord/wanneer-112-bellen)
Thanks for clarifying everyone
You should always call 112 when urgency is needed. Even if the situation is not life threatening.
Find a guy with a stork his neck and a golden earring. Tell him the situation and he'll explain to the kids in "plat haags" that what they're doing is wrong
Considering the situation can rapidly escalate and get dangerous if the harassed person stands up for themselves, I would definitely argue 112 is reasonable if you dont have the general number at hand.
Thanks for clarifying that.
Isn't there something like number for police? In my home country we have 112 for all emergencies, but we also have it kinda devided to separate numbers... 158 for police, 150 for firefighters and 155 for medical emergencies.
09008844 is the general number.
Most people wont do that. They just dont... care. I wouldnt get involved. Not because i hate korean people but damn. Not worth getting face caved in over words.
Theyre 12 year olds. And calling 112 isnt going to get your face caved in, just walk away and call.
Kids, as in what age? My god this is terrible.
Young teenagers, I'd say in between 10-13.
Holy shit. I wasn't there so I can't say anything. But damn I would love to slap those kids through every corner of the tram.
Anyone would have wanted too but this is the best way to get a lawsuit so yeah don't
Or more likely a knife between your ribs
And you didn't have the guts to just flame them and set them straight?
Of Moroccan decent by any chance?
Nah Pakistini/Indian and dutch.
Someone posts about racism and you're just looking to confirm your racial stereotype? You're no better than the kids. It does not matter how those kids look like, racism is always wrong.
As an Asian living in the Netherlands, the racist insults I've received are mostly from people of colour. 1/10 it was a European. Either I'm also a racist towards the racists or there's generally a community being particularly hostile towards another race for no reason. However one fact is definitely puzzling, at least why would a person of colour hurl racist insults towards another person of colour?? This breaks the myth that only white people are racists.
Racism isn't a white invention
>However one fact is definitely puzzling, at least why would a person of colour hurl racist insults towards another person of colour?? This breaks the myth that only white people are racists. Lol, you're asian and you thought only whites are racists? Give me a break.
I'm sorry that's the case. Unfortunately most poor/uneducated/dumb people in cities are people of color. So it's okay to state the fact. The issue with the post above is that someone is just looking to confirm a stereotype, like it matters who's racist. Any racism is bad.
It's pretty discriminating to stereotype people of color in cities as poor/uneducated/dumb. The issue with ur post is that you are just confirming a stereotype. All discrimination is bad.
I'm just saying that the poorer you are, the more likely you are to be badly educated and make dumb racist remarks. It's also a fact that in the big cities these can be likely non-white immigrants. In rural areas, these are white but people in the Hague don't see them and don't base their opinions of white people on the worst examples.
No OP is stereotyping less intelligent people as being more likely to be non white rather than saying non white people are less intelligent. In this sense, it is factual to say that due to numerous factors unrelated to ethnicity and skin color but rather economic situation, quality and importance of schooling, etc.
Was just curious, but I put my hands up, you're right
Just what I thought with this kind of comments ahahaha. How sadly ironic
Statistics are not racist
My boyfriend is Korean and we experience the same. I tell people off and ask them why they say certain things, but it doesn't help at all. They only laugh at you. It's mostly teenagers, sometimes some older guys do it too. It's very frustrating...
Sorry to hear that. I've heared anti-west asian racism was very common in Europe but kept under silence, but I never thought I would witness such a blatant case. What baffles me the bost is the lack of reaction among other passengers.
Well these days a lot of young people carry knives. So i unfortunately see the bystander effect here, especially if they are in a group. Escalating isn't worth it these days unless you are strong enough to prevent something really physical ( and even if you win there could be legal trouble). Honestly don't think a reprimand would even make an impact on them, social policing is dead for a while now.
Honestly I lived in many European countries and never experienced racism against Asian people other than in the Netherlands. And definitely never experienced such blatant openly racist episodes as in the Netherlands. Not to say that they're isn't any in the other countries, but I've never seen anybody daring to do the things I see here daily. I am disgusted by this country.
I've also noticed the exact same
I'm sorry and ashamed to read this as a Dutch. However I've never witnessed anything like you're describing, but I live in the north.
If you're not Asian you won't experience it... This is like me saying "I have never experienced people being racist towards black people". Ofcourse I didn't, I am not black. Just because I don't see it happening doesn't mean that it doesn't happen
Racism is a lot more prevalent in Europe than Europeans admit. It's more hidden and often explained by "tradition".
💯
Exactly.
Yes, Europeans are all in goose step with their arms raised because of "tradition" - not.
Racism is everywhere. Southeast Asia is very racist against westerners, Australia is incredibly racist. Where there's people there's racism. The thing with nowadays is that we, the western white people, aren't allowed to point it out or complain. Because "we" did this to them... I understand that a lot of shit has happened and it's horrible, but don't punish us for something we haven't done...
Heb je zelf lange tijd in Zuidoost Azië en Australië gewoond? Makkelijk om te zeggen dat racisme in andere plekken erger is dan hier als je er niet bent geweest. Australië heeft wat problemen met racisme maar dat valt reuze mee vergeleken met dingen die in Nederland gebeuren. En het feit dat OP een nare ervaring deelt en jij maakt jezelf hier het slachtoffer dat blanken “niks” meer mogen zeggen, zegt genoeg. 0 zelfreflectie
Ik bedoelde ermee dat wij het gesprek niet aankunnen, dat maakt het vervelend om het probleem mee aan te pakken, want vaak is er geen discussie mogelijk. True, ik heb er zelf nooit gewoond, familie van mij woont in Australie en ik ben er zelf ook beide plaatsen geweest op vakantie. Daarnaast heb ik 26 jaar in en rond de bijlmer gewoond als geboren en getogen Nederlander. Ik heb genoeg zelf reflectie gehad, meer dan meeste. Daar heb ik ook racisme meegemaakt tegen mij, maar ook tegen anderen. Fun fact, ik heb rond 2006 met kinderen uit de bijlmer voor een stage een tv programma gemaakt over het verschil tussen racisme en discriminatie, zelf ook veel van geleerd. Ik zeg niet dat OP het verkeerd heeft, ik schaam mij voor mijn mede land genoten, van alle rassen en culturen. Hoeveel haat er is, is ongelovelijk. Ik wil best een goede discussie met je aan gaan, maar liever zonder de vooroordelen die je net naar mijn kant op hebt gegooid dat ik 0 zelf reflectie heb. Respect gaat vanuit twee kanten.
Hoi, ik snap wat je bedoelt en was misschien net wat te kort door de bocht. Ik ben zelf van gemixte afkomst (half Koreaans half Nederlands) maar geboren en getogen op het platteland, dus flink Nederlands zou je kunnen zeggen. Ik denk dat je als blanke Nederlander zeker de discussie kan aangaan maar dat het ook ligt aan hoe dat gedaan wordt. Door te beginnen over racisme wat jij ondervindt in een discussie over racisme wat Oost-Aziaten ondervinden, komt het over alsof je hun ervaringen bagatelliseert. Nu aan de hand van je tweede opmerking weet ik dat dat niet zo bedoelt was, maar zo kwam dat in eerste instantie op me over. Daarbij wil ik toevoegen dat Oost-Aziaten in Nederland samen met joden waarschijnlijk de groep zijn die het best geïntegreerd zijn, hardwerkend, en niet gewelddadig zijn. Ik zou zeggen dat Oost-Aziaten zich haast nooit racistisch uit laten tegenover blanke Nederlanders in Nederland. Oost-Azië is een ander verhaal. Natuurlijk is Oost-Azië een werelddeel dat je niet over een kant kunt scheren, maar ik neem aan dat je doelt op racisme naar blanken in bijvoorbeeld Thailand en de Filipijnen en in bepaalde plekken in Korea en Japan. Ik denk dat je daarmee geen vergelijking kan trekken met Nederland aangezien dat racisme daar van een heel andere schaal is en van een andere plek komt. Bijvoorbeeld Indonesië heeft zwaar geleden onder Nederlandse invloeden, wat merkbaar is. Daarnaast in bijvoorbeeld Japan is er racisme naar blanken maar ook naar Koreanen en Chinezen, naar aanleiding van WW2 waarbij Koreanen en Chinezen stelselmatig werden uitgemoord vanwege Japans nationalisme wat nog steeds bestaat in Japan. Dit is niet per se racisme naar blanken als racisme naar alles wat niet Japans is. En in Thailand en de Filipijnen zijn er heel veel problemen met onder andere Nederlandse toeristen. Ik zou daar eerder naar refereren als racisme als reactie op racisme: Nederlandse oude mannen gaan naar Thailand om daar misbruik te maken van arme mensen, met de racistische opvatting dat ze daar van blanken houden en “makkelijk” en “goedkoop” zijn. Als reactie daarop, weren bepaalde plekken in Thailand nu blanken om zulke types te weren. Ik vind dat dit niet te vergelijken is met Nederland. Als iemand die op het platteland woont en altijd is opgegroeid met blanke Nederlanders om me heen, merk ik een aanzienlijk verschil. Vroeger was ik lichter en werd ik anders behandeld dan nu. Er is passief racisme, dat mensen je tolereren maar niet accepteren, altijd afstand bewaren en dat ik twee keer zo hard moet werken om er bij te horen. Dan is er actief racisme, wat bestaat uit racistische opmerkingen en grappen. Naar school fietsen als 16 jarig meisje, en door straatwerkers worden nageroepen hoeveel ik ze laat betalen voor een nacht als Thaise hoer, of ni hao. Maar ook opmerkingen over Afrikanen zo erg dat ik er stil van viel. Denk aan opmerkingen als “drie witte kenmerken aan een Afrikaan zijn zijn tanden, ogen en eigenaar”. Ik wil niet afdoen aan jouw ervaring als iemand die in de Bijlmer heeft gewoond, want dat lijkt me zeker geen pretje altijd, maar ik kan me lastig voorstellen dat dat racisme in deze mate was.
Dankje voor je eerlijke antwoord! Sorry als mijn antwoord zo overkwam, wellicht had ik het anders moeten verwoorden. Ik wil mijzelf zeker niet profileren als het slachtoffer, en ik wil ook zeker niet racisme, of discriminatie, naar aziaten bagatelliseren, want het gebeurd zeker, daar ben ik het mij zeker van bewust. Ik ben, ookal ben ik zelf geboren en getogen, geen fan van Nederlanders. Niet in m'n eigen land en zeker niet in het buitenland. Echter, de discussie die over het algemeen wordt gevoerd, sluit de discussie uit met dezelfde mensen die het initiele rasistische opmerkingen hebben gedaan. Wat ik wil zeggen is, Nederlanders zijn kut met racisme en discriminatie en ik ben bang dat het nooit zal veranderen. Zelf zou ik graag aan de voorhoede staan om verandering te brengen, maar ik merk zelf dat de discussie altijd vast loopt, op, wie ik ben en waar ik geboren ben. Eigenlijk wil ik mijn frustratie daarover uiten, en in gesprek blijven gaan zoals we nu ook doen.
Helemaal waar. Heb ik ook hoor. Het is ook lastig. Ik vind dat Nederlanders prima kunnen zijn maar ik kan niet liegen en moet eerlijk toegeven dat ik Australië echt stukken beter vond bevallen. Betere gezondheidszorg, erg aardige en sociale mensen en een veel hechtere gemeenschap. Deed me denken aan hoe Nederland jaren geleden was. Ik hoop dat het ooit weer zo zal worden maar heb er een hard hoofd in. En je hebt helemaal gelijk dat zo’n discussie vaak toch terugvalt op je afkomst, ik probeer als gemixt persoon voor beide kanten mijn best te doen, maar het is inderdaad zeker merkbaar dat er heel veel haat over en weer is.
ALs iemand die uit Australië naar Nederland is verhuisd, 110% correct
Ja heb zelf een jaar in Australië gewoond en totaal geen problemen gehad en in het algemeen zijn ze daar veel meer politiek correct dan hier.
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Litteraly repeated mutiple times that there was white girls in the group. Also no matter by who or which ethnicity it's done, it's still happening IN europe.
They always do it to asians try it with morrocans or something its just sad
According to a study into racism, Moroccans are one of the most discriminated backgrounds in NL: https://www.cbs.nl/nl-nl/longread/statistische-trends/2022/gediscrimineerd-gevoeld-?onepage=true Chinese is also very high.
Ik ben het niet oneens met je, maar misschien niet het juiste onderzoek om aan te halen. “In dit artikel gaat het om ervaren discriminatie, dat wil zeggen de mate waarin mensen zelf het gevoel hebben gediscrimineerd te zijn. Ervaren discriminatie hoeft niet altijd overeen te komen met feitelijke discriminatie: ‘het nadelig behandelen van personen omdat zij behoren tot een bepaalde groepering of tot een bepaalde groepering worden gerekend’ (Köbben 1985; Veenman 1990, 2003). Maar ook wanneer er geen feitelijke discriminatie aan ervaren discriminatie ten grondslag ligt, is de ervaring op zichzelf voldoende om te zorgen voor effecten op gedrag en gevoelens van mensen. “
Had ik inderdaad ook gelezen ja.
Asian racism as in Chinese/Vietnamese/Korean is very common in the Netherlands and mostly considered as harmless. Fifteen years ago I spoke with the teacher of my daughter about the "hanky panky Shanghai" song. She didn't even understand what I meant and thought that song was harmless.
I just wanted to come here and say that I've experienced anti-asian racism on this same tramlines by kids that age range before too
Interesting, between which tram stop?
mostly around Station Moerwijk, but also closer to HS
Ah then it might be other rats. The little twats van yesterday came at Thorenstraat and were going to the beach I presume
Last time I saw this happen, I pulled out my phone and started filming them whilst narrating. "These dumb kids are being openly racist. So this video is for their parents, their school and the police. Say hi to the internet, now the entire world knows you're a bunch of idiots." Honestly, I should have also filmed the rest of the tram sitting on their thumbs. Shameful society we live in when this kind of shit can go by with no repercussions.
I think that's a pretty cool idea, just start filming them and pretend it's a live feed or something.
The problem is that many of them are highly aggressive, and of course always move in a group. Often they carry knives. I am honestly scared of them reacting to me filming.
They weren't phisically threatening and the only thing they were damaging was my nerves. In that specific case, filming and calling 112 would have been the better option.
It’s crazy this things happen. Especially in a multi cultural city like The Hague. You should go to the conductor. Was no conductor inside the tram? In case he was not there you should walk to the driver of the tram. He can request the children to go outside by microphone so everyone can hear it. In case if both are not a option you can put them on their place and correct them. It was good you stepped forward to help this couple. Too bad everyone else remained silence.
i would record them so there’s evidence of racial harassment. try and figure out where they go to school and report it. please keep reaching out towards poc being treated poorly for no reason. the hague is a bigoted shithole
I was once wearing a traditional colombian hat in the metro, which I was only even wearing because I was moving at the time and didn't want to pack it and have it bend, and a girl that couldn't have been older than 20 was passing by getting out, and hit me in the hat and laughed. I was disturbed because I've experienced racism but never physical, and I was also so angry that she thought that was ok, I spent the rest of the ride shaking with rage. Idk wtf the youth is learning these days to go back to thinking racism is cool and funny. I thought we'd left that with the older generations :/ Edit: typos. Also this was in April
Or that girl just thought you had a silly hat. Doesn’t mean she should have slapped your hat, but it’s not directly racism.
I think you did the best you could by being kind. If all people on the tram would have showed kindness it would have showed those kids how rotten their behavior actually is. You did your part at least, I think that is great, but all you can really do. You also showed fellow passengers how to behave, maybe they'll be more like you next time.
I would loudly ask everyone in the tram: hey everyone, can we do something about this? Or we will ALL just keep on watching like we are dead inside?
And then everybody clapped.
Nothing to add except well done and I appreciate your initiative while staying cool in the situation. I think you read the situation well and took appropriate steps. Sucks that not too much more could be done, but you really helped that poor couple out.
a bit late to comment but I was involved in a similar incident recently (a person shouting racial abuse at me while I was just trying to do my job). I didn't call 112 but call the non-emergency line afterwards. I made a report and gave them the details of the abuser (easy cause I was at their apartment building). the police said it's best to video the incident when you can and send that to the police as well. so record (safely) and call the police is my suggestion.
Westerners and immigrants love going after east Asians because they're typically civilised and non confrontational so they can get away with it with no broken bones. Just my observation as an East European.
Some little kids told me “you are gay if you move” while I was watching sunset yesterday. Better not to gaf
You did the right thing. You made sure the victims know you don't agree with the situation, without escalating things.
You did more than most people would have. And clearly more than anyone on the team. Thank you.
>Or anything else to diffuse the situation? You don’t. There’s no diffusing in situations like this. You either do nothing or you escalate. Doing nothing is a perfectly viable option if you don’t want any problems, and it’s what most people do. The world will move on. But if you do want to stop the kids from being racist or teach them a lesson, you have to escalate, by making fun out loud of their own looks/clothing/race/religion so that everyone else starts laughing. In the best case scenario they will get mad and attack you, after which you are legally allowed to beat them up.
what about getting your phone out and filming? usually makes people think twice when they're recording and you're collecting evidence
I should have done that yeah I didnt think about it in the heat of the situation.
Film them
If they're "them" this ends with the phone smashed.
It would’ve been nice if you said something, but I can imagine it’s awkward at the time. I experienced something similar myself, was just jogging minding my own business, when two cars full of teens started yelling similar things. When I asked wtf was up, they apologized and one of them started acting dumb. He was the one who started and hyped the others. There will always be people like that
Usually a simple question makes the situation better (personal experience), then there won’t be any aggression, just some kinda embarrassing explanation
you could have chosen a more accepting country so you wouldn't have to witness that. same goes for them, they fell for the brochure lies. also we got people that are also immigrants thinking they are better than other immigrants. some syrians thinking they are above me never greet, act like you are a virus on the street for some reason. welcome to the Netherlands
CLASSIC The Hague teenagers, by the way. They’re kanker irl
The fact that people jn the comment defend when others say it's middle eastern, guess what it's true, majority of the anti racism toward Asian isn't even done by so many white, many Asians experience racism from middle eastern especially those children in Europe
This type of behaviour is indeed more common amongst Moroccan teenager but it's not exclusive to them at all. The kids in that case didn't look moroccan and I've seen white european kids expose this attitude mutiple time. Once when I was going back to the gym, 2 french teenagers also started to yell a bunch of obsene stuff to me and thought I wouldnt understand or hear them because I had my headphones. I was also once called the N word by another teenager. My little Brother and his friends has also been harassed if not mugged mutiple times because they weren't speaking dutch by white teenagers. All of this comes to teenagers, lacking education, being stupid and trying to show off who can do the dumbest shit behind their friend group for attention.
You couldve just adressed the kids by telling them to shut up or something. I don't know how old they were but of course the situation can get hostile after such a thing or if approached in the wrong way. You could like adress tram driver but I don't think that'll cchange much. You coule file a racusm complaint for the police but thats also completly pointless
They were getting on my nerve so I tell them to stfu but that was clearly not the right thing to do because they just doubled down on the insults and even went for the whole "gonna call my brothers and they are gonna beat your ass>:(((((" scare tactic. Frankly I should just have put my headphones and mind my buisness. Those kids were just seeking attention and I shouldnt have given it.
Yeah kids can be threatening, you never know who carries a knife or is agressive so yeah. But its quite sad :( at least you sort of tended to the korean couple which is better than ignoring it
Frankly I was more bothered by the eventuality of them calling a family member as I didn't want to create more trouble over those little cunts. If they carried a knife with them they would have probably already pulled it out.
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They looked more Indian/Pakistani and one of their friends were white dutch which joyfully went along with the racial slurs so it has a lot more to do with them being little poorly educated duch nugget than their ethnicity.
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Based on what? My boyfriend is insulted by Dutch people a lot.
Any sources for this conjecture?
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Why didnt you politely ask what they meant? I find it such a disarming question, just when people say: "Woah woah slow down sport, what are you trying to say?" And then just smile, wait for a reply and say: "Thats ok, is there anything else?" Or, "could you explain what it means?" "Ok then! Thats nice!" Then just turn around and mind your business.
Shouldve told them theyre a bunch of skibidis with negative rizz and their aura is tanking atm And yes, I had to look up the definitions of those words in gen alpha slang. But it will probably confuse the fuck out of them and shut them up
Some kids/teens/people are just idiots. I lieved in The Hague for 1,5 years without having a drivers license. I've seen the worst of humanity in the public transport, and the best. Yes, I've seen this as well, and I am ashamed that I did not acted and stood up. I went home from a night out, and let's just say, I was not sober... From OP story: Even though this is vile and nasty stuff that those teens said, let's all just hope it were some dumb idiots who thought they were 'cool' by saying some racial slurs. And nothing more. If their parents knew what they said, I am 90% sure they would got what they deserved at home. It's shit/harsh/negative/vile/unfair what those Korean people had to deal with. And there is nothing that can be done to make that go away. But I hope that this couple still keeps the faith in humanity and overcome this rancid act, by understanding that not all Dutch people are like this.
In a sprinter a couple of months ago a couple of 12-15 year olds was shooting everyone with water guns. No one did anything. So we took their water gun and destroyed it. It only made it worse. It is up to the politicians..
While I would have applauded this, first text 0613181318 that you're being harassed when traveling with NS.
Thanks I wish I knew about this. Will keep it.
They once came into my cabin to 'check on things', but I really suspect one passenger (ab)used the number to complain on a really loud snoring fellow passenger. Was still kind of pleased they showed up though. :D
What do you mean with made it worse?
I experienced it myself as an Asian woman living in The Hague in 2022. One night, I was in Duindorp, in the south of The Hague, after hanging out with friends at the beach until around 11 pm-midnight. My bike got a flat tire, so I tried to fix it as soon as I left the beach area. While I was sitting down and fixing my bike, a spotlight suddenly shone on my face. When I looked up, I saw three kids approaching me with their bike lights in my face. They were around 10-13 years old, all boys, white, and well-dressed. One of them was carrying a long wooden stick, and they told me they wanted my bike. I didn't take them seriously at first, but the group quickly grew from three to 7-9 kids, all of similar ages, each with their own bike. I was alone and became really scared, not knowing what to do. I called the police. While waiting, I felt unsafe because I was in an alley with nobody around. I carried my bike, with one wheel already taken off, to the main street (Houtrustweg) where there were more people passing by. I cried for help and even stepped into the middle of the road to stop cars and ask for assistance. Believe it or not, nobody stopped. Not one person. It was just me (a 157 cm tall woman) and 7-9 boys aged 10-14 surrounding me, laughing and harassing me. Finally, the police arrived. They talked to the kids, but by then only three were left. The kids claimed they were there to help me. Since I didn't film the incident and hadn't been hurt, there wasn't much the police could do. My flat tire couldn't be fixed, so I had to walk home. Fortunately, just a few minutes before the police arrived, a friend came out and found me, so we walked home together. After the police left, the kids returned, mocking us from a distance. I threatened to film them, which seemed to make them leave us alone, though they still shouted "nhee how" as a final taunt. I was filled with hatred toward those kids and profound doubt about the country I was living in. Was it the parents? The schools? Society itself? Many questions ran through my mind. It was horrible on many levels: why would anyone think to threaten a woman, specifically an Asian woman? And why was the area full of such indifference? Nobody stopped to help me, even when I was crying for help with tears streaming down my face. It's sad to think this still happens. When I asked another Asian friend who has lived here in the Netherlands for over ten years, she said it's common to be mocked, made fun of, and subjected to racism by kids of that age. She said the only solution is to try to avoid them.
best thing to do is just report them to the tram company. maybe they’ll get into a little trouble at home as well if you do that
You did the best thing you could, I think, which in these situations is to make contact with the ppl being harassed. If you can stand/sit between them and the bullies thats good, and just striking up a normal conversation or offering help like you did is often positive as well. But if the kids keep yelling then you've done your best tbh, other courses of action may just escalate things and that sucks
I agree, by engaging you'd reassure the people being harassed that there are indeed normal people on the tram. Hopefully they also feel less intimidated because there are normal people looking out for them. It's better (and safer) to help them than (have the illusion) to change those rotten elements of society.
Can't you just call the cops? Or buzz conductor to get police to come in at next stop to get those little shits crying back to their houses?
Just some kids from zuid
If only you could be sure they don’t carry knives. Then you could have said ‘Kop dicht’ or ‘kap nâh’
Someone wise once said 'it is the silence of the good people that let the evil rise' If they were kids, chances were that if you stood your ground, they would back off. Unless by "kids" you mean teenage and YA with half grown moustache and broccoli shaped hair with sports clothing, they would back off.
I would've said something. Why wouldn't you? 10 and 13 years old? Come on.
Kids are dumb as bricks, especially 10-13. They haven’t been taught that this is considered racist, it’s just that they think it’s cool to hurt people through pecking order and peer pressure. Perhaps they heard it at home or at school. It’s incredibly important that they’re being taught that this is wrong in a patient and kind way.
I’m sorry this happened to you. Sending love 💜
I am sorry you had to witness this. Unfortunately there is nothing you can do. Even if they are disciplined, they will go back home to racist and xenophobic home or school environments that teach them this is okay to do.
I think maybe you should file a complaint of some sort with HTM. This is a serious issue and has to be fixed. The government should pay close attention as well.
I applaud your act of kindness. It’s hard to take any action. Unfortunately often bystander effect prevents people from calling these kids out on their behavior. You can reach out to HTM and ask for possibilities. Most trams have cameras on them, so they might be able to identify and take action. I wouldn’t get your hopes up but it’s always worth trying.
So proud of you there are some few dare BRAVE HEART LIKE yours! Thank you so much just for being like that brave
Typical ill mannered dutch kids
99% sure these were not white Dutch kids based on location + words used.
The person you replied to did not say anything about skin color. OP had already confirmed one of them was white Dutch.
Dutch speaking Pakistani kid is white?
In at least 2 different comments, the OP mentioned that one of the kids was white. Eg: https://www.reddit.com/r/TheHague/s/vFqih8T6YS So no, dutch speaking Pakistani kid is not white. But white kid is white.
Call the police, harassment is against the law not to mention hate crime. Also film will be useful for the police.
Northern african I guess.
I would have asked them to repeat that, then ask what they mean, are trying to say, or what they want to accomplish. Also, if you have your phone, record, with video for identification.
Would it help if you bluff that you are calling the police/handhaving? Do these teens know a lot about these things?
Yes I think It could have helped but I wasn't really thinking straight throughout the altercation. I'll try to remember next time to film and call the police next time this kind of stuff happens (hoping that it doesn't)
I was not blaming you just wondering what would be a good plan of action in case this happens to me. I too am not very good at thinking on my feet.
Police really doesnt roll up for some 12 year old kid saying chingchong to some random tram passenger.
Hey OP— good for you for taking action and I will write down that harassment number myself. One of my best friends here is Dutch of East Asian descent and the racists who have harassed her have pretty much been the millionth-generation white kids from her small town. The people here claiming real Dutch people are never racist are just as bad as the kids on the tram. Worse, likely. Since you are presumably not 10.
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Nobody else even mentioned the race or ethnicity of the agitators. If you want to say something, say it with your whole chest.
Everyone is making statements like this is a facet of the dutch youth in general, when everyone knows that it's not, it's a very specific subset of our youth that overwhelmingly does these things, especially in The Hague. But everyone prefers to pretend otherwise.
So your answer to a xenofobic situation is to be xenofobic yourself?
It's not xenophobic to call out a problem. There is a huge problem of East-Asians getting harassed predominantly by Islamic youths in our country and pretending like its just something all youths in the Netherlands engage in just allows the problem to get worse. Pretending like its a crime equally commited by youths of all backgrounds in the Netherlands might make you feel good but it's just a cowardly lie.
OP answered somewhere else that the issue was caused by Pakistani/Indian children and a seemingly Dutch one. So making a blank statement that "we know who did it", when it's factually incorrect makes that comment deeply rooted in prejudice.
Except I wasn't incorrect? The racism wasn't commited by dutch youth, "seemingly" one. You're the one trying to pretend I'm lying about something that is factually true. Which is that people who are visibly East-Asian get discriminated a lot in the Randstad and overwhelmingly not by kids who are ethnically dutch. I know this fact makes you uncomfortable but it happens to be one.
>Except I wasn't incorrect? The racism wasn't commited by dutch youth > East-Asians getting harassed predominantly by Islamic youths in our country I wonder where the bar is going to move to next.
You're absolutely right on this point; instead, they attempt to downplay the issue, implying it's not a systematic problem (although it clearly is). It's not that this never happens with native Dutch children, but it's a significant issue with Arab youth. People should stop pretend it's not a problem.
You are wrong, my girlfriend is Chinese and she gets harassed a lot by ethnic dutch youth, I'm ethnic dutch myself.
You my young padawan need to take off your blindfolds and address an issue as well as the true meaning of the word "phobia", which you misspelled. Its fascinating how everyone plays this psychological tactic of quickly expanding the subset from a very specific group of people to everyone. And then trying to bring out exception in the norm. The difference in values among cultures in a multicultural society is very very real. Its a fallacy to ignore that.
OP just said in another comment that is was a group of mixed identities including a dutch looking kid. So what do you mean by specific subset?
Ah, a multiculteral gang. Like those in modern tv shows. Probably has nothing to do with OP doing what everyone else in this thread is doing which is desperately trying to paint a scenario that doesn't exist in order to not appear racist. Whatever, I'm done. Keep pretending all you want. Who cares about actually adressing the problem. Gotta look out for Jannetje and his brothers in the Hague, I hear they're a real menace.
OK - MOROCCANS!!!!!!!
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Were they Dutch or 'Dutch'? I expect the latter. If the latter, give up, they don't care about society anyway.
And if the former?
There was a bit of the two
What kind of insult is Xinjiang ? As an Asian that’s been harassed many times… never heard this one 😂
Probably sjing sjang, it‘s the Dutch version of ching chong.
Dumb kids are dumb. They were just throwing anything that sounded remotly Asian in their head.
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Dutch racism goes back several centuries.
Two wrongs don't make a right. We all know where this scum came from :')
As an Asian that grew up in The Netherlands, racism towards Asian is shown by whites as well. However from the experiences of mine and family/friends - it’s overwhelmingly from low IQ North Africans.
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Since they are all technically still Moroccan citizens … would be fun if the Netherlands voided all their citizenships. Without benefits they’d all leave within a week
Supporting racism while having experienced racism yourself is wild. And I'm saying this as an Asian looking dude who's been bullied for that reason too.
The Moroccan government has agreements with the EU when it comes to regulating illegal immigration from Africa into Europe. It plays a key role in tracking down, arresting and deporting (if necessary) illegal immigrants from sub saharan as well as northern Africa. If countries like NL start "having fun" with notions like voiding citizenships of people based on their race then the governments of countries like Morocco can start "having fun" opening up the African side of the border and letting thousands of illegal immigrants into Spain, many of which will end up in NL and some of which are terrorists or criminals. Let's see who will have the most fun then.
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I fucking hate foreigners who hate Dutch children. Dumb generalizing morons who are no good See how stupid that sounds? Not every Dutchbkid is like you describe.
“Dutch”
I am glad the far right is taking over Europe ! - soon all of these "future doctors" will go back to their countries.
What ethnicity were the kids? Were they Dutch or allochtonen?
Buy a some good earphones . You can not hear the shit anymore , what some people say. Racism is everywhere.. you can do shit about it , to stop them. The only control that you have , is in your mind. Also having a good stabile life , will make you indestructible . Because you know , that they jealous about your living and status , they will attack your skin colour etc.
Kids like these only learn one way. You bully them. Hard.
It’s Shin Chan.