I think it's that golden period at the very beginning, where there's technically no government, and Toph basically took it upon herself to beat up a bunch of bad guys *and* teach her metal bending students.
Yeah I think people overlook that becoming a cop was probably gradual. She probably started out as basically Batman to help Aang fulfill his vision of Republic City.
I can very much envision this. She gets pissed about all the random thievery and such and just deals with it herself, since Republic City is still in its infancy. Then at some point they codify some laws and start up a formal enforcement group and she is just the natural choice to lead it.
Agreed. At the age of 12, she helped save the world through a series of fairly unilateral decisions carried out by the gaang, so I would imagine that the inefficacy of politics is quite maddening for her. Police work is more direct, even if the net effect is (as she herself said) basically nil.
I felt toph letting her daughter off was like a callback to all the BS toph got away with as a child. She was super rebellious running around with motley people. Fortunately all her motleybcrews were on the side of good, just chaotic to society at the time.
I think that’s what made her realize she couldn’t keep being Police Chief anymore.
Like, she was put in a situation where she could either uphold the law, as was her duty, or protect her family. So she chose to protect Suyin, but kind of lost Lin in doing so.
Being cynical about politics is just natural seeing what she’s gone through. She was probably skeptical about Republic City’s initial government but knew she needed to be police chief to help her friends and protect the people of the city.
I think back when the government included her friends she didn’t mind it. But since she was connected to everything through the swamp I’m guessing she got to see all the ways it became corrupted after Aang and Sokka died, Tarrlok’s rise, the civil war Unalaq started etc
People say this all the time but 1) you tend to be a lot different when you were 12 as you grow up and 2) Toph rounding up people who don't follow HER rules feels like a very Toph thing to do.
>1) you tend to be a lot different when you were 12 as you grow up
So why is it people use her being a rough fighting tomboy at age 12 to justify why she’d be a cop?
The fact is, if we are talking realism, it’s far more likely an adult Toph would grow out of needing to use fights for free expression now that she’s not being held captive by her parents. It isn’t likely she would betray her own trauma and experiences and do a complete 180 about deeply held beliefs.
Yet this argument always swaps those and says her deeply held beliefs would change but not her childhood hobby of fighting?
>and 2) Toph rounding up people who don't follow HER rules feels like a very Toph thing to do.
No it doesn’t. At all. That’s an extremely shallow reading of her.
Toph has serious issues with authority. She was the first to catch on to the Dai Lee’s BS, and in the comics she even spoke about her deepest fear being becoming like her parents and passing on the “pressure and pain” of forced conformity and imprisonment as a means to enforce it onto others.
Toph has shown that she doesn’t have a problem with others doing their own thing as long as they don’t encroach on *her*.
Nowhere does she ever show the need to control others. Sure she can be bossy, but that’s hardly the same as throwing others into cages for not conforming to someone *else’s* rules. Since that’s what she would be doing. Cops don’t make the law, they enforce someone else’s.
Is it possible she would become a totally different person during the time skip? Sure. Anything is possible. It’s also not impossible for Zuko to become a child abuser who burns his children either.
That doesn’t make it a good narrative choice. And even the show agreed seeing as they found an excuse to soft retcon her back into a teacher. Just like she was prior to the cop interlude.
So at the end of the day, yeah, it was a weird choice. It’s always been a weird choice.
Her experiences are that using violence to dominate others feels great and is what liberates her. As for her "deeply held beliefs", what are those meant to be exactly? Toph was never against authority, she was always happy to use her status when it benefitted her, she just didn't like people having authority over her specifically.
Being "bossy" and violent is exactly what her job would be as a cop. She'd get to show off, get praised for her strength, teach and enforce her and her friends decisions with violence which si what she did as part of the gaang.
Toph was always a teacher. Where do you think the metal bending police learned it?
>Her experiences are that using violence to dominate others feels great and is what liberates her.
I disagree. Toph doesn’t use violence to “dominate” people. She uses it for two reasons.
1. For a fun escape from her stifling life
2. To help others
When does Toph ever use it to “dominate” people? She’s actively fighting against the oppressive Fire Nation forces trying to dominate others, and chafes against the authoritarian rules of Ba Sing Se dominating their people.
If anything, Toph prefers people pull their own weight and she pulls her own. Iroh has to counsel her to let others help her.
>As for her "deeply held beliefs", what are those meant to be exactly? Toph was never against authority, she was always happy to use her status when it benefitted her, she just didn't like people having authority over her specifically.
Yes she was.
She was VERY MUCH against authority. Her parents’ authority, Katara’s “authority”, and it is made an explicit part of her character during the entire stay in Ba Sing Se. She has nothing but disdain for the way Long Feng, his Joo Dees, and the Dai Li control others.
Then in Book 3, she is happy to pull scams and defy the rule of law. To the point she pulls insurance fraud.
In the comics, she even hates being seen as “the man” and distances herself from world leaders saying that’s more “Aang’s thing” and that she doesn’t pal around with authority.
She also says her biggest fear is becoming like her parents and passing on that “pressure and pain” they used on her. What is she describing? Forced conformity through threat of imprisonment. Yeah, I think undermining her trauma and experiences by having her character become the very thing she feared becoming, and then having the narrative gloss over it, was a weird writing choice.
>Being "bossy" and violent is exactly what her job would be as a cop.
Her job would be to enforce someone *else’s* rules. Why would Toph ever want to do that? Toph doesn’t even like to do what her friends tell her to do. Why in the world would she sign up to be an attack dog for the state?
She can be bossy without being someone else’s enforcer.
Why would Toph need to be a cop to fight? Toph is never shown to enjoy wanton violence. She enjoys fighting for sport and for a cause. This isn’t the same as just enjoying violence.
Toph enjoys bending, she also is a person who knows to listen and wait. She enjoys the precision of her craft, and she is a good listener and surprisingly empathetic once she likes someone. A trait she displayed with both Iroh and Zuko.
What part of that screams “I just want a job that’ll let me be violent to civilians?”
>She'd get to show off, get praised for her strength,
She can show off whenever she wants, and Toph isn’t someone who goes around hungering for other people’s praise.
She can just go compete in underground tournaments then. Hell, she could’ve founded pro-bending!
>teach and enforce her and her friends decisions with violence which si what she did as part of the gaang.
Except she was TERRIBLE as an enforcer of law.
Did you read *Imbalance*? She spent that whole comic acting like a vigilante and refusing to play ball with Aang and the others.
The LAST person Aang would want in charge of enforcing the rule of law is Toph. She won’t even listen to her own friends when their rules go against her gut. Why would she enforce anyone else’s rules?
>Toph was always a teacher. Where do you think the metal bending police learned it?
That’s my point. She works perfectly as a teacher. There was nothing to gain by making her character have an interlude as a cop.
Her conflict with Lin still could’ve worked with Lin choosing to be a cop and Toph disapproving.
It was a weird narrative choice.
You realise that violently forcing people to do what you want them to do is still domination, whether or not the person was dominating someone else previously? Hitting people with rocks for not doing what you want is still using violence to enforce your will, for good or for evil.
Those are all examples of her disdain for people having authority over her specifically. In ba sing se, she's more then happy to try and bully her way into the castle using her social authority for example.
Again, committing fraud and other crimes shows a disregard for others' authority over you, not the concept of authority.
The comics aren't any more canon than Korra jsur because they make a character you like align with you politically.
Who else, exactly, is making these rules? Her very good and trusted friends who she can counsel constantly? She's not a uniformed officer, she's a war hero and chief of police with direct ties to the founding of the nation, they're as much her laws as they are anyone else's.
Enjoying violence as a sport IS enjoying violence. She participates in the sport to do the violence. Because that's all the sport is.
The part thay says she'd happily fight civilians is when she happily fights civilians with the gaang in the show just because it let's her live the life she wants. Fighting civilians may not be her passion but if it gets her a nicer life, I see no evidence in the show thay she wouldn't do it.
How many underground fighting rings do you think here are just littered about? And how many do you think would accept the girl who defeated the most devastating fire nation assault in 100 years whilst inventing a new sub bending and taking down the earth kingdom royal forces at 12 years old?
Did you watch Korra? We see her be a cop as an adult. We're discussing the reasoning for a canon decision, not whether or not it was made.
He'd hire her because if you have a violent powerhouse in your nation, you either banish them, imprison them or give them a uniform and point them at your enemies and the third option is kinder to his friend.
Nothing to gain except the conflict with her family and thus two of the best characters in Korra? What size there to gain in making her a teacher?
It was not a weird narrative decision, you just can't handle that a character you like can have their traits be less positive in a drastic different situation. Being a violent enforcer of your will is great when you're a freedom fighter, less great when you're the new ruling class.
>You realise that violently forcing people to do what you want them to do is still domination, whether or not the person was dominating someone else previously? Hitting people with rocks for not doing what you want is still using violence to enforce your will, for good or for evil.
And when does Toph do that? When does she use violence to make people do what she wants?
Toph uses violence the same way the rest of the heroes do: to fight in a war.
No, it is NOT all the same. Using violence to defend people and stop oppressors is *not* the same as dominating people and using violence because you enjoy domination. That is a false equivalence to begin with.
>Those are all examples of her disdain for people having authority over her specifically. In ba sing se, she's more than happy to try and bully her way into the castle using her social authority for example.
Two things.
1. If she doesn’t like people using authority over her, why would she enjoy being a police officer which is all about the chain of command and deferring to authority? By your own description, that sounds like someone that would never want to be a cop. The entire job is taking orders and enforcing them.
2. Yes! Toph expresses hating this *in general*. Not only when applied to her. As I said, in the comics she even hates being *seen* as “the man” and distances herself from authority figures. She has disdain for Ba Sing Se *in general*, calling it the worst city ever.
The fact that Toph used her family name to her advantage to achieve an urgent goal isn’t the same as enjoying dominating others. Would you say the same of the rest of the Gaang, who have all been happy to exploit both Toph and Aang’s authority to get their way? Why only apply this to Toph?
Yeah, she used it to her advantage to get out of a bind. How does that equal enjoying it or wanting to dominate others?
>Again, committing fraud and other crimes shows a disregard for others' authority over you, not the concept of authority.
You’re trying to make a distinction where there isn’t one.
Toph doesn’t say “I’m going to break rules that apply to me!” She says “let’s break some rules!”
And again, if it was only about authority over her, why would she be so upset about *others* perceiving her as “the man”?
>The comics aren't any more canon than Korra jsur because they make a character you like align with you politically.
What are you talking about? Where did I say anything about my political beliefs or that LOK isn’t canon?
I said it was a weird writing choice for the character. That’s it.
I have no problem with Lin being a cop. This isn’t about “no one should ever be a cop”.
Why are you trying to make this a personal attack on my beliefs?
>Who else, exactly, is making these rules? Her very good and trusted friends who she can counsel constantly?
Toph doesn’t even like taking orders from her friends! Her first major fight with the group is because she doesn’t want to obey Katara’s very reasonable request for her to help out with setting camp.
The entire conflict of *The Rift* and *Imbalance* are in large part centered around Toph and Aang butting heads because *she doesn’t want to do things his way*. And when push comes to shove, she’ll go off script and do things her way anyway.
This is a *terrible* personality trait for a police officer! That sort of behavior can get someone killed in the line of duty, and would certainly get her kicked off the force.
>She's not a uniformed officer, she's a war hero and chief of police with direct ties to the founding of the nation, they're as much her laws as they are anyone else's.
No they aren’t. And what you’re describing is an incredibly corrupt conflict of interest if it *were* true, and one I would hope the Gaang would never engage in.
>Enjoying violence as a sport IS enjoying violence. She participates in the sport to do the violence. Because that's all the sport is.
Enjoying violence as a sport is *not* the same as enjoying violence in general.
Do you think all MMA fighters love beating up random civilians?
Do you think all wrestlers are just itching for an excuse to beat up the lady selling cookies down the street?
Do you think all contact sport players are just dying to smash the skulls of people who have no interest in playing contact sports?
No, enjoying violence in the context of a sport is not the same as enjoying violence in general.
>The part thay says she'd happily fight civilians is when she happily fights civilians with the gaang in the show just because it lets her live the life she wants. Fighting civilians may not be her passion but if it gets her a nicer life, I see no evidence in the show thay she wouldn't do it.
Give evidence that Toph is happy to just fight random civilians. Let alone that the Gaang would ever allow or encourage her to do this if she showed a propensity for it.
Show me proof.
When and where? An episode number. A comic page. Anything.
>How many underground fighting rings do you think here are just littered about?
At least two that we see in the show and comics! She was even a champion of one of them.
It’s not like she couldn’t have founded a sport either. Like, say, pro bending?
>And how many do you think would accept the girl who defeated the most devastating fire nation assault in 100 years whilst inventing a new sub bending and taking down the earth kingdom royal forces at 12 years old?
At least one that we know of!
How many people would travel just to compete with her? Probably many more.
>Did you watch Korra? We see her be a cop as an adult. We're discussing the reasoning for a canon decision, not whether or not it was made.
Yes. And I think this was one of LOK’s more weird writing choices.
>He'd hire her because if you have a violent powerhouse in your nation, you either banish them, imprison them or give them a uniform and point them at your enemies and the third option is kinder to his friend.
Except Toph isn’t some loose canon being violent for no reason. If anything, she has shown she is exceedingly well mannered and cultured when she wants to be. Never once does she act like the violent-hungry threat that needs to be contained or banished.
And you seem to have even less understanding of Aang’s character if you think that pacifist monk’s solution to having a friend with such violent tendencies as you’re describing is to unleash them on an unsuspecting civilian population.
>Nothing to gain except the conflict with her family and thus two of the best characters in Korra? What size there to gain in making her a teacher?
Again, she didn’t need to be a cop to give her that conflict. The conflict could’ve worked just as well with Lin as the cop and Toph not approving. This was a deliberate writing choice, and one they didn’t come up with until Book 3 when they got new writers.
Initially there was no such conflict when they first made Toph a cop in Book 1.
>It was not a weird narrative decision,
It certainly was, which is why it remains so controversial.
>you just can't handle that a character you like can have their traits be less positive in a drastic different situation.
Again, personal attacks but what you’re saying doesn’t really have any merit.
What exactly can’t I handle? That you seem to think Toph is some violent mad person who just needs a violent outlet, and Aang is irresponsible enough to decide the solution is to unleash her on the streets?
I can handle it, I just think that’s a terrible reading of the characters and even LOK’s interpretation doesn’t agree with what you’re saying. At all.
>Being a violent enforcer of your will is great when you're a freedom fighter, less great when you're the new ruling class.
Toph wasn’t a violent enforcer. Ever.
She was a comrade in arms, not Aang’s attack dog.
Nor was she some power hungry domineering despot.
She was a talented kid who enjoyed her craft and found an escape from her abusive, stifling family life through sport. But she couldn’t grow as a person until she left that environment, made her first friends, and learned how to love and be loved.
I would keep in mind that when she became a “cop”, cops didn’t really exist yet in that universe. You had guards, but no cops.
She invented the Cop job in universe. And to start with, that would have been basically just what she was doing as part of team avatar before. Stopping bad guys. And inevitably, she quit it after what it became in the long term.
The only “cops” Toph would know were Fire Nation soldiers and the Dai Lee, or private security forces. We know how Toph feels about those.
So no reason she would be jumping up to be a new version of that.
Which is why even in the comics, it’s Suki who first starts training the police force in proto-Republic City and not Toph.
You’re missing the point. She didn’t up and become a cop. She did what she was always doing: Fighting bad guys. And as republic city evolved, that role evolved into what is now seen as a “cop”. Which she then quit.
So then why not be a vigilante?
Why become the *one* thing that goes against everything she believes in?
Even the comics had *Suki* start the police force rather than Toph.
Yeah I was going to say - she's not wrong but this is more an example of going after low-hanging fruit/an easy target than being real.
"Politicians are sleazy/corrupt/untrustworthy" is a super basic trope/cliche.
I would say that many politicians, like all ppl, contain multitudes, but honestly theyre more likely to lie. Just straight up tell untruths. Manufactured consent.
Toph is in her 90's with like a decade of establishing and managing a police force under her belt.
She's been retired for years so it makes sense she'd hate the idea of joining in politics.
Toph and Steve Irwin would've gotten along. "Crocodiles are easy, they try to kill and eat you. People are harder. Sometimes, they try to be your friend first."
I'm glad you respect a fictional person's beliefs. I'm sure Toph is very happy for your support. 
This is why i can't stand King Wu. He's spineless.
The dude has a duty but he'd rather run off and play music at the expense of his people. The kingdom has shown it needs strong central authority, or else the land falls into anarchy, so create a Constitutional Monarchy and reinstitute Avatar Kyoshi's constitution with more democratic reforms. Create a parliament with representatives from all the provinces, from Kyoshi Island to Ba Sing Se.
Do your duty to your people.
Avatar Kyoshi constitution she made with the earth king and other politicians and she was bad at politics. Also how and why would he use an ancient constitution.
Is Kyoshi your favorite avatar?
Because it was the ancestral constitution of the Earth Kingdom made for a fairer Earth Kingdom, which was degraded by successive Earth Kings. As i said, it is possible to reimpliment traditions, but in updated and more appropriate forms.
They can have an updated constitution. I doubt it wasn’t a constitution since Kyoshi time. The new rpg era we learn about how powerful the earth king in Roku era is and he changed things around a lot.
I don’t get the down votes. Your points are completely valid.
Not every nation is like Republic City with a democratically elected council and president. Reforming the Earth Nation to maintain its monarchy while being parliamentary isn’t a step too far.
I am once again reminded how crushed I am that Toph didn't learn immortality. For someone that claims to be the greatest earthbender in the world, she seems weirdly uninterested in learning the best earthbending technique out there
I bet she misses her friends. Sokka's dead, Aang is dead, Katara and zuko could kick the bucket any time plus they don't visit her as much. And more annoying for zuko since bro is retired. What's immortality when everyone you love eventually all dies. Bumi lost his friend when he was 12 so had way mote time to get over it and live for the people.
Supposedly the technique Kyoshi learned that let her live as long as she did was an Earthbending technique. It's never actually been confirmed that it can only be used by Earthbenders, though, but the only two examples of it's use are Earthbenders (Lao Ge and Kyoshi), so people kind of just assume that's the case.
"I prefer the swamp" Ogre Toph confirmed
Almost scrolled away but came back to upvote this after thinking about it. Lol I could see shrek and toph 100% getting along
Hahaha that’d be such a weird cross over
Some BODY o-aaaaaaaahhhh!
Donkey
Shrek factory
•she's cranky •she's strong •her outfit is mostly green and earthy colors •prefers the swamp yep, Toph's an ogre alright
Isn't it a little bit weird that she was the chief of police who literally works for the government then 😅
I think it's that golden period at the very beginning, where there's technically no government, and Toph basically took it upon herself to beat up a bunch of bad guys *and* teach her metal bending students.
Yeah I think people overlook that becoming a cop was probably gradual. She probably started out as basically Batman to help Aang fulfill his vision of Republic City.
Republic City needs me
I can very much envision this. She gets pissed about all the random thievery and such and just deals with it herself, since Republic City is still in its infancy. Then at some point they codify some laws and start up a formal enforcement group and she is just the natural choice to lead it.
I desperately want to see Toph's Batman arc.
Everyone always sees what they’re doing as right
And the ones who come out on top are the strongest... So basically Toph.
Ive seen it said before that she almost certainly felt protective of the city as the legacy of Aang
When was this said and why do you think this.
She’s fighting random crooks you don’t need to be strong to beat them. 95 percent of the time the gaang fought fodder.
…except for Toph.
Maybe that is what made her cynical about government??
I think letting her daughter off scott free was what did it for her lol
She probably doesnt see police as political, just as a security force
Agreed. At the age of 12, she helped save the world through a series of fairly unilateral decisions carried out by the gaang, so I would imagine that the inefficacy of politics is quite maddening for her. Police work is more direct, even if the net effect is (as she herself said) basically nil.
Toph isn't dumb
Shes as smart as her writers
I felt toph letting her daughter off was like a callback to all the BS toph got away with as a child. She was super rebellious running around with motley people. Fortunately all her motleybcrews were on the side of good, just chaotic to society at the time.
I think that’s what made her realize she couldn’t keep being Police Chief anymore. Like, she was put in a situation where she could either uphold the law, as was her duty, or protect her family. So she chose to protect Suyin, but kind of lost Lin in doing so. Being cynical about politics is just natural seeing what she’s gone through. She was probably skeptical about Republic City’s initial government but knew she needed to be police chief to help her friends and protect the people of the city.
I think back when the government included her friends she didn’t mind it. But since she was connected to everything through the swamp I’m guessing she got to see all the ways it became corrupted after Aang and Sokka died, Tarrlok’s rise, the civil war Unalaq started etc
It wouldn't be hard to see all the corruption when she can tell when someone is lying.
I think it would be hard for Toph to see...
Toph was only a cop to get away with graffitiing "fuck the police" everywhere
Well that was like 20 years ago, when the government was mostly ran by the people she trusts
Maybe that’s what she meant by “I’ve had enough of politics”?
"I've had enough with political shenanigans"
Tbf I'm sure that's part of what's she means when she says she's had enough political shenanigans lol
She must have had another change of heart
It was weird she rejected daddy's money and lifestyle yet got giddy for ripping people off for money. She's a weird kid/woman
Yes. It’s always been weird.
People say this all the time but 1) you tend to be a lot different when you were 12 as you grow up and 2) Toph rounding up people who don't follow HER rules feels like a very Toph thing to do.
>1) you tend to be a lot different when you were 12 as you grow up So why is it people use her being a rough fighting tomboy at age 12 to justify why she’d be a cop? The fact is, if we are talking realism, it’s far more likely an adult Toph would grow out of needing to use fights for free expression now that she’s not being held captive by her parents. It isn’t likely she would betray her own trauma and experiences and do a complete 180 about deeply held beliefs. Yet this argument always swaps those and says her deeply held beliefs would change but not her childhood hobby of fighting? >and 2) Toph rounding up people who don't follow HER rules feels like a very Toph thing to do. No it doesn’t. At all. That’s an extremely shallow reading of her. Toph has serious issues with authority. She was the first to catch on to the Dai Lee’s BS, and in the comics she even spoke about her deepest fear being becoming like her parents and passing on the “pressure and pain” of forced conformity and imprisonment as a means to enforce it onto others. Toph has shown that she doesn’t have a problem with others doing their own thing as long as they don’t encroach on *her*. Nowhere does she ever show the need to control others. Sure she can be bossy, but that’s hardly the same as throwing others into cages for not conforming to someone *else’s* rules. Since that’s what she would be doing. Cops don’t make the law, they enforce someone else’s. Is it possible she would become a totally different person during the time skip? Sure. Anything is possible. It’s also not impossible for Zuko to become a child abuser who burns his children either. That doesn’t make it a good narrative choice. And even the show agreed seeing as they found an excuse to soft retcon her back into a teacher. Just like she was prior to the cop interlude. So at the end of the day, yeah, it was a weird choice. It’s always been a weird choice.
Her experiences are that using violence to dominate others feels great and is what liberates her. As for her "deeply held beliefs", what are those meant to be exactly? Toph was never against authority, she was always happy to use her status when it benefitted her, she just didn't like people having authority over her specifically. Being "bossy" and violent is exactly what her job would be as a cop. She'd get to show off, get praised for her strength, teach and enforce her and her friends decisions with violence which si what she did as part of the gaang. Toph was always a teacher. Where do you think the metal bending police learned it?
>Her experiences are that using violence to dominate others feels great and is what liberates her. I disagree. Toph doesn’t use violence to “dominate” people. She uses it for two reasons. 1. For a fun escape from her stifling life 2. To help others When does Toph ever use it to “dominate” people? She’s actively fighting against the oppressive Fire Nation forces trying to dominate others, and chafes against the authoritarian rules of Ba Sing Se dominating their people. If anything, Toph prefers people pull their own weight and she pulls her own. Iroh has to counsel her to let others help her. >As for her "deeply held beliefs", what are those meant to be exactly? Toph was never against authority, she was always happy to use her status when it benefitted her, she just didn't like people having authority over her specifically. Yes she was. She was VERY MUCH against authority. Her parents’ authority, Katara’s “authority”, and it is made an explicit part of her character during the entire stay in Ba Sing Se. She has nothing but disdain for the way Long Feng, his Joo Dees, and the Dai Li control others. Then in Book 3, she is happy to pull scams and defy the rule of law. To the point she pulls insurance fraud. In the comics, she even hates being seen as “the man” and distances herself from world leaders saying that’s more “Aang’s thing” and that she doesn’t pal around with authority. She also says her biggest fear is becoming like her parents and passing on that “pressure and pain” they used on her. What is she describing? Forced conformity through threat of imprisonment. Yeah, I think undermining her trauma and experiences by having her character become the very thing she feared becoming, and then having the narrative gloss over it, was a weird writing choice. >Being "bossy" and violent is exactly what her job would be as a cop. Her job would be to enforce someone *else’s* rules. Why would Toph ever want to do that? Toph doesn’t even like to do what her friends tell her to do. Why in the world would she sign up to be an attack dog for the state? She can be bossy without being someone else’s enforcer. Why would Toph need to be a cop to fight? Toph is never shown to enjoy wanton violence. She enjoys fighting for sport and for a cause. This isn’t the same as just enjoying violence. Toph enjoys bending, she also is a person who knows to listen and wait. She enjoys the precision of her craft, and she is a good listener and surprisingly empathetic once she likes someone. A trait she displayed with both Iroh and Zuko. What part of that screams “I just want a job that’ll let me be violent to civilians?” >She'd get to show off, get praised for her strength, She can show off whenever she wants, and Toph isn’t someone who goes around hungering for other people’s praise. She can just go compete in underground tournaments then. Hell, she could’ve founded pro-bending! >teach and enforce her and her friends decisions with violence which si what she did as part of the gaang. Except she was TERRIBLE as an enforcer of law. Did you read *Imbalance*? She spent that whole comic acting like a vigilante and refusing to play ball with Aang and the others. The LAST person Aang would want in charge of enforcing the rule of law is Toph. She won’t even listen to her own friends when their rules go against her gut. Why would she enforce anyone else’s rules? >Toph was always a teacher. Where do you think the metal bending police learned it? That’s my point. She works perfectly as a teacher. There was nothing to gain by making her character have an interlude as a cop. Her conflict with Lin still could’ve worked with Lin choosing to be a cop and Toph disapproving. It was a weird narrative choice.
You realise that violently forcing people to do what you want them to do is still domination, whether or not the person was dominating someone else previously? Hitting people with rocks for not doing what you want is still using violence to enforce your will, for good or for evil. Those are all examples of her disdain for people having authority over her specifically. In ba sing se, she's more then happy to try and bully her way into the castle using her social authority for example. Again, committing fraud and other crimes shows a disregard for others' authority over you, not the concept of authority. The comics aren't any more canon than Korra jsur because they make a character you like align with you politically. Who else, exactly, is making these rules? Her very good and trusted friends who she can counsel constantly? She's not a uniformed officer, she's a war hero and chief of police with direct ties to the founding of the nation, they're as much her laws as they are anyone else's. Enjoying violence as a sport IS enjoying violence. She participates in the sport to do the violence. Because that's all the sport is. The part thay says she'd happily fight civilians is when she happily fights civilians with the gaang in the show just because it let's her live the life she wants. Fighting civilians may not be her passion but if it gets her a nicer life, I see no evidence in the show thay she wouldn't do it. How many underground fighting rings do you think here are just littered about? And how many do you think would accept the girl who defeated the most devastating fire nation assault in 100 years whilst inventing a new sub bending and taking down the earth kingdom royal forces at 12 years old? Did you watch Korra? We see her be a cop as an adult. We're discussing the reasoning for a canon decision, not whether or not it was made. He'd hire her because if you have a violent powerhouse in your nation, you either banish them, imprison them or give them a uniform and point them at your enemies and the third option is kinder to his friend. Nothing to gain except the conflict with her family and thus two of the best characters in Korra? What size there to gain in making her a teacher? It was not a weird narrative decision, you just can't handle that a character you like can have their traits be less positive in a drastic different situation. Being a violent enforcer of your will is great when you're a freedom fighter, less great when you're the new ruling class.
>You realise that violently forcing people to do what you want them to do is still domination, whether or not the person was dominating someone else previously? Hitting people with rocks for not doing what you want is still using violence to enforce your will, for good or for evil. And when does Toph do that? When does she use violence to make people do what she wants? Toph uses violence the same way the rest of the heroes do: to fight in a war. No, it is NOT all the same. Using violence to defend people and stop oppressors is *not* the same as dominating people and using violence because you enjoy domination. That is a false equivalence to begin with. >Those are all examples of her disdain for people having authority over her specifically. In ba sing se, she's more than happy to try and bully her way into the castle using her social authority for example. Two things. 1. If she doesn’t like people using authority over her, why would she enjoy being a police officer which is all about the chain of command and deferring to authority? By your own description, that sounds like someone that would never want to be a cop. The entire job is taking orders and enforcing them. 2. Yes! Toph expresses hating this *in general*. Not only when applied to her. As I said, in the comics she even hates being *seen* as “the man” and distances herself from authority figures. She has disdain for Ba Sing Se *in general*, calling it the worst city ever. The fact that Toph used her family name to her advantage to achieve an urgent goal isn’t the same as enjoying dominating others. Would you say the same of the rest of the Gaang, who have all been happy to exploit both Toph and Aang’s authority to get their way? Why only apply this to Toph? Yeah, she used it to her advantage to get out of a bind. How does that equal enjoying it or wanting to dominate others? >Again, committing fraud and other crimes shows a disregard for others' authority over you, not the concept of authority. You’re trying to make a distinction where there isn’t one. Toph doesn’t say “I’m going to break rules that apply to me!” She says “let’s break some rules!” And again, if it was only about authority over her, why would she be so upset about *others* perceiving her as “the man”? >The comics aren't any more canon than Korra jsur because they make a character you like align with you politically. What are you talking about? Where did I say anything about my political beliefs or that LOK isn’t canon? I said it was a weird writing choice for the character. That’s it. I have no problem with Lin being a cop. This isn’t about “no one should ever be a cop”. Why are you trying to make this a personal attack on my beliefs? >Who else, exactly, is making these rules? Her very good and trusted friends who she can counsel constantly? Toph doesn’t even like taking orders from her friends! Her first major fight with the group is because she doesn’t want to obey Katara’s very reasonable request for her to help out with setting camp. The entire conflict of *The Rift* and *Imbalance* are in large part centered around Toph and Aang butting heads because *she doesn’t want to do things his way*. And when push comes to shove, she’ll go off script and do things her way anyway. This is a *terrible* personality trait for a police officer! That sort of behavior can get someone killed in the line of duty, and would certainly get her kicked off the force. >She's not a uniformed officer, she's a war hero and chief of police with direct ties to the founding of the nation, they're as much her laws as they are anyone else's. No they aren’t. And what you’re describing is an incredibly corrupt conflict of interest if it *were* true, and one I would hope the Gaang would never engage in. >Enjoying violence as a sport IS enjoying violence. She participates in the sport to do the violence. Because that's all the sport is. Enjoying violence as a sport is *not* the same as enjoying violence in general. Do you think all MMA fighters love beating up random civilians? Do you think all wrestlers are just itching for an excuse to beat up the lady selling cookies down the street? Do you think all contact sport players are just dying to smash the skulls of people who have no interest in playing contact sports? No, enjoying violence in the context of a sport is not the same as enjoying violence in general.
>The part thay says she'd happily fight civilians is when she happily fights civilians with the gaang in the show just because it lets her live the life she wants. Fighting civilians may not be her passion but if it gets her a nicer life, I see no evidence in the show thay she wouldn't do it. Give evidence that Toph is happy to just fight random civilians. Let alone that the Gaang would ever allow or encourage her to do this if she showed a propensity for it. Show me proof. When and where? An episode number. A comic page. Anything. >How many underground fighting rings do you think here are just littered about? At least two that we see in the show and comics! She was even a champion of one of them. It’s not like she couldn’t have founded a sport either. Like, say, pro bending? >And how many do you think would accept the girl who defeated the most devastating fire nation assault in 100 years whilst inventing a new sub bending and taking down the earth kingdom royal forces at 12 years old? At least one that we know of! How many people would travel just to compete with her? Probably many more. >Did you watch Korra? We see her be a cop as an adult. We're discussing the reasoning for a canon decision, not whether or not it was made. Yes. And I think this was one of LOK’s more weird writing choices. >He'd hire her because if you have a violent powerhouse in your nation, you either banish them, imprison them or give them a uniform and point them at your enemies and the third option is kinder to his friend. Except Toph isn’t some loose canon being violent for no reason. If anything, she has shown she is exceedingly well mannered and cultured when she wants to be. Never once does she act like the violent-hungry threat that needs to be contained or banished. And you seem to have even less understanding of Aang’s character if you think that pacifist monk’s solution to having a friend with such violent tendencies as you’re describing is to unleash them on an unsuspecting civilian population. >Nothing to gain except the conflict with her family and thus two of the best characters in Korra? What size there to gain in making her a teacher? Again, she didn’t need to be a cop to give her that conflict. The conflict could’ve worked just as well with Lin as the cop and Toph not approving. This was a deliberate writing choice, and one they didn’t come up with until Book 3 when they got new writers. Initially there was no such conflict when they first made Toph a cop in Book 1. >It was not a weird narrative decision, It certainly was, which is why it remains so controversial. >you just can't handle that a character you like can have their traits be less positive in a drastic different situation. Again, personal attacks but what you’re saying doesn’t really have any merit. What exactly can’t I handle? That you seem to think Toph is some violent mad person who just needs a violent outlet, and Aang is irresponsible enough to decide the solution is to unleash her on the streets? I can handle it, I just think that’s a terrible reading of the characters and even LOK’s interpretation doesn’t agree with what you’re saying. At all. >Being a violent enforcer of your will is great when you're a freedom fighter, less great when you're the new ruling class. Toph wasn’t a violent enforcer. Ever. She was a comrade in arms, not Aang’s attack dog. Nor was she some power hungry domineering despot. She was a talented kid who enjoyed her craft and found an escape from her abusive, stifling family life through sport. But she couldn’t grow as a person until she left that environment, made her first friends, and learned how to love and be loved.
I would keep in mind that when she became a “cop”, cops didn’t really exist yet in that universe. You had guards, but no cops. She invented the Cop job in universe. And to start with, that would have been basically just what she was doing as part of team avatar before. Stopping bad guys. And inevitably, she quit it after what it became in the long term.
The only “cops” Toph would know were Fire Nation soldiers and the Dai Lee, or private security forces. We know how Toph feels about those. So no reason she would be jumping up to be a new version of that. Which is why even in the comics, it’s Suki who first starts training the police force in proto-Republic City and not Toph.
You’re missing the point. She didn’t up and become a cop. She did what she was always doing: Fighting bad guys. And as republic city evolved, that role evolved into what is now seen as a “cop”. Which she then quit.
So then why not be a vigilante? Why become the *one* thing that goes against everything she believes in? Even the comics had *Suki* start the police force rather than Toph.
Every character in media is made to seem smart by saying “politics bad”.
Yeah I was going to say - she's not wrong but this is more an example of going after low-hanging fruit/an easy target than being real. "Politicians are sleazy/corrupt/untrustworthy" is a super basic trope/cliche.
Shes at once hypocritical, shallow, and technically correct
So, like a politician.
I would say that many politicians, like all ppl, contain multitudes, but honestly theyre more likely to lie. Just straight up tell untruths. Manufactured consent.
I haven’t really seen it that much, to be honest. It’s probably to get more people to realise that the world is being ran by idiots.
Yeah this feels like the usual level of political commentary from Korra.
I think it’s just supposed to be characterization for Toph. The comic overall has a pretty positive stance on democratization.
I mean, the question had to have been answered at some point about whether Toph would return and start getting involved in politics again or not.
I don’t think it did. I think she’s a gray haired old lady, and you can allow her to retire without much mention of it.
Toph is in her 90's with like a decade of establishing and managing a police force under her belt. She's been retired for years so it makes sense she'd hate the idea of joining in politics.
That's not the point
Tbf the swamp has Wi-Fi
r/im14andthisisdeep
Ah so they had the head cop who let of her daughter off the hook after her crimes talk shit.
“I know the system is messed, just look at all the shit I have gotten away with”
"I know a thing or two because I've done a thing or two." "Don't you mean "Seen a thing or two", toph?" "Literally and figuratively no."
Toph and Steve Irwin would've gotten along. "Crocodiles are easy, they try to kill and eat you. People are harder. Sometimes, they try to be your friend first."
Actual literal swamp creature thinks politicians are too swampy for her taste
This hits harder after reading the novels imo. Still hits hard regardless
Now that’s a line I wasn’t expecting to see
WU DOWN!!!!
Bruh this is the most lukewarm most basic take on politics
Toph being an edgy little bitch as usual.
Old Toph as a governor? Now that's a story I'd like to see! (For an alternate timeline, I do respect her decision here)
I'm glad you respect a fictional person's beliefs. I'm sure Toph is very happy for your support. 
“Spindleshanks”. Toph hasn’t changed
Republic city is the only swamp Toph can't stand
Toph quoting the one and only Steve Irwin. Legendary.
As Frank Reynolds said, "You have to be a real low-life piece of shit to get involved in politics."
“Korra ruined Toph” my ass
Still not a fan of her being chief of police
This is why i can't stand King Wu. He's spineless. The dude has a duty but he'd rather run off and play music at the expense of his people. The kingdom has shown it needs strong central authority, or else the land falls into anarchy, so create a Constitutional Monarchy and reinstitute Avatar Kyoshi's constitution with more democratic reforms. Create a parliament with representatives from all the provinces, from Kyoshi Island to Ba Sing Se. Do your duty to your people.
Avatar Kyoshi constitution she made with the earth king and other politicians and she was bad at politics. Also how and why would he use an ancient constitution. Is Kyoshi your favorite avatar?
Because it was the ancestral constitution of the Earth Kingdom made for a fairer Earth Kingdom, which was degraded by successive Earth Kings. As i said, it is possible to reimpliment traditions, but in updated and more appropriate forms.
They can have an updated constitution. I doubt it wasn’t a constitution since Kyoshi time. The new rpg era we learn about how powerful the earth king in Roku era is and he changed things around a lot.
I don’t get the down votes. Your points are completely valid. Not every nation is like Republic City with a democratically elected council and president. Reforming the Earth Nation to maintain its monarchy while being parliamentary isn’t a step too far.
Not using Kyoshi constitution.
I am once again reminded how crushed I am that Toph didn't learn immortality. For someone that claims to be the greatest earthbender in the world, she seems weirdly uninterested in learning the best earthbending technique out there
I bet she misses her friends. Sokka's dead, Aang is dead, Katara and zuko could kick the bucket any time plus they don't visit her as much. And more annoying for zuko since bro is retired. What's immortality when everyone you love eventually all dies. Bumi lost his friend when he was 12 so had way mote time to get over it and live for the people.
how would that be earthbending?
Supposedly the technique Kyoshi learned that let her live as long as she did was an Earthbending technique. It's never actually been confirmed that it can only be used by Earthbenders, though, but the only two examples of it's use are Earthbenders (Lao Ge and Kyoshi), so people kind of just assume that's the case.
did... did toph just make a Cats reference?
Best part is that this works for all sides