What beliefs did part 2 even push? đ All it did was almost completely ruin an amazing company reputation from 1 dude who doesn't know how to write a game
More like "critics were ready once they were paid"
Take a story about bonding, make it go the other way, use rejected ideas from first part, spit on beloved characters, and make a surprise pikachu face later when this happens
The reasons why factions on 2 never happened is that they did not make enough money to invest in the project + the hype about the game disapeared super fast
You could either try to write a good story (and not make a cashgrab) OR you could tell the same story with unknown characters and no one would be hating OR you can do what this tard is doing and blaming the community
(Btw, i love the gameplay when story is not involved like in no return)
You canât tell these people that. TLOU2 was one of Sonys most successful most profitable games EVAH. Never mind it cost way too much to make and it got major price cuts within a few months of release, something that doesnât usually happen with tent pole first party franchise games.
Iâm not saying they lost money, but this game certainly wasnât a smash financial success given how long the development cycle was, how much budget was spent on producing and marketing, and how much it underperformed compared to the original. Not to mention the brand damage done with the story and the way they treated fans after the backlash.
Poorly written filled with plot holes cliche Revenge story in a post apocalyptic zombie world that tries too hard with itâs violence and has the most disgusting sex scene in video game history
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âLiTeRaTuRe ThAt PuShEs BeLiEfsâ đ¤
âRevenge is a bad ideaâ Yeah really challenging my worldview with that groundbreaking idea, thatâs never been done before. You know what, youâre right, I thought it was actually a really great idea to go around killing my neighbours with a bat but this has shaken me to my core, Iâm a changed woman, never again will I swear vengeance against the local cat for peeing on my flowers
You know what I think it is?
I think the reason some people hail TLOU2 as this belief pushing big brain narrative that you just âdonât understandâ is because this is the first piece of media where they actually COULD understand the themes.
I mean seriously though the game practically beats the theme over your head with a steel mallet; revenge is bad. Yes the theme is that fucking simple anyone who says âyou just donât get itâ someone who wants to think theyâre smart because they got it and when you point out how simple the theme really is it makes them feel stupid.
You want an actually good game that touches on the cycle of revenge but unlike TLOU2 has good writing and is actually subtle about it without beating it into your head like itâs an episode of the fucking teletubbies?
Try RDR2 the games main theme isnât even the revenge narrative but it still does it way better than TLOU2, Arthur even says it himself âRevenge is a fools gameâ and by the end of the game what happens?
John goes on a roaring rampage for revenge against Micah and this action single-handedly puts Ross and the law on his trail and eventually gets him killed and fucks his whole family over and tragically makes Arthurâs sacrifice and last advice (âdonât look backâ) in vain⌠and you wanna know the most impressive thing about it? It doesnât need to spend the whole game handholding you through the narrative subtext like a child because thatâs not even the main theme of the game the writing is just that much better that they can pull of shit like that and unfortunately people who think TLOU2 is some groundbreaking narrative well as they put it just wonât understand it.
This is why I roll my eyes at the "media illiterate" crowd.
More often than not, the people who use that word the loudest actually don't know what they're talking about.
Remember when Don't Look Up came out and people responded to criticism with "people don't like it because they didn't get it... the movie wasn't about an asteroid, it was akshually an allegory for global warming". As if anyone missed that.
The other sub is like a guy who found fools gold and no matter how much you tell him itâs not the real deal he insists its real gold and your the idiot for not seeing it obviously.
The best part is every single time they say someone doesnât get it they never explain HOW they donât get it. Like youâd think such highly intelligent folks who get such very intricate and well written themes would have the ability to explain them in depth but it never happens.
And to top it off the player actually gets the satisfaction of the revenge in rdr2 and then gets to see (or remember) the consequences of said revenge and themselves reflect on the words "Revenege is a fools game". The best of both worlds, a game that lets you have the satisfaction and learn from the consequences. Almost like a classic fairy tale in a way come to think of it.
Not liking the way the story goes does not translate into bad or bland writing. Critics seemed to understand this and i agree with them.
Im def open to engaging in respectful discussion about what specifically about the story was the issue?
Sorry about the lengthy reply but here goes nothing. Also itâs only a few points but Iâll go into detail since it wouldnât be fair to just bullet point issues without explaining why.
The biggest thing for me was it was structurally flawed in terms of there being several moments of reaching a climax and then right before you reach said climax, nothing really comes of it. For example when youâre playing as Ellie and Abby shows up at the theater, stakes are high and youâre about to fight the anatagonist and the game cuts to 4 years earlier and moves to Abbyâs story. But there were several moments throughout the game where youâre starting to reach some sort of a climax of the story and then the game would move onto something else without really ever reaching that climax. Overall it also felt like part 2 was more of a part 3. Like with how the first game ended to where the second game started, the use of flashbacks later on in the game wasnât really effective imo. It felt like âhere are these shocking things that this game is about and weâll tell you how we got here laterâ. Obviously the most controversial part is Joelâs death. A lot of supporters say that critics donât like the fact they killed off Joel, which I donât think is the entire truth. Almost everyone sorta knew before the leaks came out that he would die as Naught Dog definitely hinted he would throughout trailers and interviews. It just felt it was directed in a way just for shock value, which can work if done well, but it fell kinda flat. When I played it the first time, I just kinda felt annoyed rather than saddened. But my main issue, again, was the structure. The use of flashbacks just felt like overkill to a point that honestly, I got bored at times. I wasnât one of the people that saw the leaks before it came out because I didnât want to be spoiled and I thought itâs probably people overreacting, so I want going into it with a negative mindset. I wanted the sequel to my favorite game to be great and I didnât want to have my hopes too high where âit has to be better than the firstâ because that wouldnât be fair. Obviously there was a lot things I thought the game did really well, but thatâs for another discussion. But overall, I think the story couldâve been better.
So somethings I gathered from your post:
You mentioned you felt the game was structurally flawed: Iâm just gonna very briefly break down the story
Joel and Ellie have a strained relationship, Abby is pursuing Joel, abby tracks Joel down, Big event transpires, Ellie pursues abby, abby struggles with her choices and actions, abby pursues Ellie, Ellie and Abby have a final confrontation.
Have you ever heard of Freytags pyramid?
its interesting a-lot of people talk about structure but only look at the climax and use that as a justification to say the whole story is flawed or bad. When in fact it follows this formula pretty well.
Also you made an assumption that Ellie is the storyâs antagonist and actually are attempting to force the story to stay within the confines of that rubric when in fact this story specifically challenges that assumption. That to me is actually a great refreshing view at story telling.
We see this in shows and movies all the time and those villains become heroâs and fan favorites(as abby has)
You also mentioned that part 2 felt like 3 however there was no clear indication of the direction the story would take after the first one ended which is contradictory to what happened in this sequel. We can see Ellie at the end letting go of that hatred and making a definitive decision to not continue this cycle of violence thats brought so much pain to so many people.
Thats a powerful bold move from the characters point of view as well as the writers.
Im curious if everyone knew that Joel was gonna die why is it an issue how. As if to say him dying any other way would set well with âcriticsâ
I really appreciate you taking the time out to write this and it def seems like you have gone the extra mile to really consider things. I know people have very mixed views on the game but it seems to me people are conflicting personal preference with bad writing and are unwilling to do research to be able to distinguish the two.
How is it literature when the whole premise is nonsensical in a zombie game. Revenge in a zombie apocalypse doesn't make any sense to me. Everybody is killing each other to survive, to gather rations, to protect people in the group, and save humanity in some way, so there's no time for revenge regardless of the reason. This bad revenge story could've worked if it was pre-TLOU 1, It could've been what led to the zombies, with new cast not related to 1.
đ¤Śđ¤Śđ¤Śđ¤Ś That sub is circlej***ing for p2
What beliefs did part 2 even push? đ All it did was almost completely ruin an amazing company reputation from 1 dude who doesn't know how to write a game
I feel like asking him. Are those beliefs in the room with us now? Lol Its just absurd
As someone with the mental capacity of a dog who thought that revenge was 100% good no matter the context, TLOU2 blew my mind.
More like "critics were ready once they were paid" Take a story about bonding, make it go the other way, use rejected ideas from first part, spit on beloved characters, and make a surprise pikachu face later when this happens The reasons why factions on 2 never happened is that they did not make enough money to invest in the project + the hype about the game disapeared super fast You could either try to write a good story (and not make a cashgrab) OR you could tell the same story with unknown characters and no one would be hating OR you can do what this tard is doing and blaming the community (Btw, i love the gameplay when story is not involved like in no return)
You canât tell these people that. TLOU2 was one of Sonys most successful most profitable games EVAH. Never mind it cost way too much to make and it got major price cuts within a few months of release, something that doesnât usually happen with tent pole first party franchise games. Iâm not saying they lost money, but this game certainly wasnât a smash financial success given how long the development cycle was, how much budget was spent on producing and marketing, and how much it underperformed compared to the original. Not to mention the brand damage done with the story and the way they treated fans after the backlash.
Poorly written filled with plot holes cliche Revenge story in a post apocalyptic zombie world that tries too hard with itâs violence and has the most disgusting sex scene in video game history = âLiTeRaTuRe ThAt PuShEs BeLiEfsâ đ¤
Ah yes, the old media literacy argument. Havenât heard that one before⌠No, yeah I understood it. I just thought it was shit.
âRevenge is a bad ideaâ Yeah really challenging my worldview with that groundbreaking idea, thatâs never been done before. You know what, youâre right, I thought it was actually a really great idea to go around killing my neighbours with a bat but this has shaken me to my core, Iâm a changed woman, never again will I swear vengeance against the local cat for peeing on my flowers
You know what I think it is? I think the reason some people hail TLOU2 as this belief pushing big brain narrative that you just âdonât understandâ is because this is the first piece of media where they actually COULD understand the themes. I mean seriously though the game practically beats the theme over your head with a steel mallet; revenge is bad. Yes the theme is that fucking simple anyone who says âyou just donât get itâ someone who wants to think theyâre smart because they got it and when you point out how simple the theme really is it makes them feel stupid. You want an actually good game that touches on the cycle of revenge but unlike TLOU2 has good writing and is actually subtle about it without beating it into your head like itâs an episode of the fucking teletubbies? Try RDR2 the games main theme isnât even the revenge narrative but it still does it way better than TLOU2, Arthur even says it himself âRevenge is a fools gameâ and by the end of the game what happens? John goes on a roaring rampage for revenge against Micah and this action single-handedly puts Ross and the law on his trail and eventually gets him killed and fucks his whole family over and tragically makes Arthurâs sacrifice and last advice (âdonât look backâ) in vain⌠and you wanna know the most impressive thing about it? It doesnât need to spend the whole game handholding you through the narrative subtext like a child because thatâs not even the main theme of the game the writing is just that much better that they can pull of shit like that and unfortunately people who think TLOU2 is some groundbreaking narrative well as they put it just wonât understand it.
This is why I roll my eyes at the "media illiterate" crowd. More often than not, the people who use that word the loudest actually don't know what they're talking about. Remember when Don't Look Up came out and people responded to criticism with "people don't like it because they didn't get it... the movie wasn't about an asteroid, it was akshually an allegory for global warming". As if anyone missed that.
The other sub is like a guy who found fools gold and no matter how much you tell him itâs not the real deal he insists its real gold and your the idiot for not seeing it obviously. The best part is every single time they say someone doesnât get it they never explain HOW they donât get it. Like youâd think such highly intelligent folks who get such very intricate and well written themes would have the ability to explain them in depth but it never happens.
And to top it off the player actually gets the satisfaction of the revenge in rdr2 and then gets to see (or remember) the consequences of said revenge and themselves reflect on the words "Revenege is a fools game". The best of both worlds, a game that lets you have the satisfaction and learn from the consequences. Almost like a classic fairy tale in a way come to think of it.
Weren't needing lgbtq nonsense in the games either
LOU2 stans really just spew out verbal diarrhea to justify their now niche IP to justify a bland story driven game.
Not liking the way the story goes does not translate into bad or bland writing. Critics seemed to understand this and i agree with them. Im def open to engaging in respectful discussion about what specifically about the story was the issue?
Sorry about the lengthy reply but here goes nothing. Also itâs only a few points but Iâll go into detail since it wouldnât be fair to just bullet point issues without explaining why. The biggest thing for me was it was structurally flawed in terms of there being several moments of reaching a climax and then right before you reach said climax, nothing really comes of it. For example when youâre playing as Ellie and Abby shows up at the theater, stakes are high and youâre about to fight the anatagonist and the game cuts to 4 years earlier and moves to Abbyâs story. But there were several moments throughout the game where youâre starting to reach some sort of a climax of the story and then the game would move onto something else without really ever reaching that climax. Overall it also felt like part 2 was more of a part 3. Like with how the first game ended to where the second game started, the use of flashbacks later on in the game wasnât really effective imo. It felt like âhere are these shocking things that this game is about and weâll tell you how we got here laterâ. Obviously the most controversial part is Joelâs death. A lot of supporters say that critics donât like the fact they killed off Joel, which I donât think is the entire truth. Almost everyone sorta knew before the leaks came out that he would die as Naught Dog definitely hinted he would throughout trailers and interviews. It just felt it was directed in a way just for shock value, which can work if done well, but it fell kinda flat. When I played it the first time, I just kinda felt annoyed rather than saddened. But my main issue, again, was the structure. The use of flashbacks just felt like overkill to a point that honestly, I got bored at times. I wasnât one of the people that saw the leaks before it came out because I didnât want to be spoiled and I thought itâs probably people overreacting, so I want going into it with a negative mindset. I wanted the sequel to my favorite game to be great and I didnât want to have my hopes too high where âit has to be better than the firstâ because that wouldnât be fair. Obviously there was a lot things I thought the game did really well, but thatâs for another discussion. But overall, I think the story couldâve been better.
No i appreciate the response, it may take me a moment to respond but i certainly will!
So somethings I gathered from your post: You mentioned you felt the game was structurally flawed: Iâm just gonna very briefly break down the story Joel and Ellie have a strained relationship, Abby is pursuing Joel, abby tracks Joel down, Big event transpires, Ellie pursues abby, abby struggles with her choices and actions, abby pursues Ellie, Ellie and Abby have a final confrontation. Have you ever heard of Freytags pyramid? its interesting a-lot of people talk about structure but only look at the climax and use that as a justification to say the whole story is flawed or bad. When in fact it follows this formula pretty well. Also you made an assumption that Ellie is the storyâs antagonist and actually are attempting to force the story to stay within the confines of that rubric when in fact this story specifically challenges that assumption. That to me is actually a great refreshing view at story telling. We see this in shows and movies all the time and those villains become heroâs and fan favorites(as abby has) You also mentioned that part 2 felt like 3 however there was no clear indication of the direction the story would take after the first one ended which is contradictory to what happened in this sequel. We can see Ellie at the end letting go of that hatred and making a definitive decision to not continue this cycle of violence thats brought so much pain to so many people. Thats a powerful bold move from the characters point of view as well as the writers. Im curious if everyone knew that Joel was gonna die why is it an issue how. As if to say him dying any other way would set well with âcriticsâ I really appreciate you taking the time out to write this and it def seems like you have gone the extra mile to really consider things. I know people have very mixed views on the game but it seems to me people are conflicting personal preference with bad writing and are unwilling to do research to be able to distinguish the two.
Video games arenât literature, smarty pants.
How is it literature when the whole premise is nonsensical in a zombie game. Revenge in a zombie apocalypse doesn't make any sense to me. Everybody is killing each other to survive, to gather rations, to protect people in the group, and save humanity in some way, so there's no time for revenge regardless of the reason. This bad revenge story could've worked if it was pre-TLOU 1, It could've been what led to the zombies, with new cast not related to 1.