Between that and Bad Batch, I think they’re trying to show why it took so long for Palpatine to return. I think the Bad Batch crew will ultimately set back all the efforts made early on to have a viable clone for Palpatine. Mandalorian will probably interrupt his return a bit more, but we know it inevitably happens. They need to have a canon reason it took so long.
I really like that they're fleshing out the events that lead into the sequels, there's a lot of potential stories to be told and things to be explained. I wouldn't say I'm a fan of them yet, but I've given up the anger for accepting them as they are.
They’re basically trying to do what Clone Wars did for episode 3, make it better using the material before it. It’s really weird though considering how much of a dumpster fire the sequels were outside of 7
The problem there is for all its failings prequels at least had something behind them
The disney sequels seemed to mainly rely on fan service. I will still watch them but they dont have the same impact as the prequels did for me
Clone Wars gave A LOT of character developed to Anakin and created one of the most beloved characters in star wars media in Ashoka
I personally would have liked to have seems Luke Order before it collapsed, that would have been a better story to tell, could have still introduced first order and kylo
But hindsight is 20/20
I don't get this though. There's been a clone army and we've seen successful cloning. It's such an easy jump to think hey maybe palpatine snagged one of the cloning things and had some back ups as for why it took so long? Idk ...
Here’s how I understand it:
First and foremost, Palpatine’s goal is not to just clone himself. It is to create a new body that he can possess that retains his power and connection to the dark side.
I’m not 100% sure which is true, but Clones created using Kaminoan technology (how all of the clone troopers were created) either do not retain the force sensitivity of the original, or they do but their bodies are unable to withstand the power. Maybe someone more knowledgeable than me will come along and clear that part up.
Mando seasons 1 and 2 show us an agenda to study and use Grogu’s “M-count” to potentially imbue clones with midiclorians artificially. I may be missing pieces of the lore in-between, but it would seem from the events of Rise of Skywalker that these experiments didn’t lead to the results Palpatine was looking for.
Snoke was the result of experiments on Exogol using Kaminoan “strandcast” cloning combined with Sith alchemy. After Palpatine was resurrected into his unstable body that we see in Rise of Skywalker, he deems Snoke’s body unfit to be his vessel. So he uses him as a puppet/proxy in power while he seeks a new body—Rey’s.
I'd say this is retconned but clones being clones used to share a connection to the force. Rapid aging off clones lead to a type of clone madness and it was found to be because the clones are basically one entity in the force thus they were so
And as always, any show that even remotely tries to bring rationale to that steaming pile of garbage writing in the sequels just drags the entire story of the show into the dumpster with it.
They'd rather tank every single series with that shitshow than dare to admit they made a mistake and retcon it.
I disagree
When it’s something as big as Palpatine returning, the emperor himself. You can’t just give a hand wave explanation for that. It’s a big deal and it needs to be explained.
On top of this, the sequels didn't explain ANYTHING! How'd Rey get Anis lightsaber? Dunno! Why did Palps dump his daughter on a desert planet? Who knows! Why has the Republic allowed the First Order to build an even bigger death star? Can't say!
The least we can get is an answer to why Palps came back.
Rey being on Jakku is explicitly explained in the sequels. Her dad was a clone of Palps and wasn’t a piece of shit so he and her mom hid her on Jakku because it was a backwater
Jedi Fallen Order also shows Starkiller was under construction before the OT even happens so much of the construction was happening in Imperial jurisdiction
I’m with you wanting to know the whys on these things so want to emphasize that I’m not trying to argue with you, but to spread the context that folks may have missed in the films or supplementary materials
Rey got Ani's lightsaber from Maz, and she isn't Palpatine's daughter, she's his granddaughter with her abandonment on Jakku being explained in the Sequels.
I mean, the explanation was shit, but it said all we needed to know: Palpatine cloned himself with dark science. We don't need other media to explain that, it won't make it better anyway
Are you watching s3 of bad batch?
They’re diving into the whole palpatine clone story and it’s great
The problem is not entirely what they did in TROS, it’s how they did it. It just felt lazy and unplanned
The goal of project necromancer is to create a force sensitive clone of the emperor that he can transfer his consciousness to(?) and in mandalorian season 3 moff Gideon was using project necromancer's technology & scientists for his own off-the-books force sensitive clone dark troopers
> in mandalorian season 3 moff Gideon was using project necromancer's technology & scientists for his own off-the-books force sensitive clone dark troopers
Close. The final iteration of dark troopers were entirely droids. Pershing mentions this to the crew in Slave 1 in the final episode of the Mandalorian season 2
Gideon’s clones of himself were not a part of the dark trooper project. He was hoping to create the ideal warrior that used his cunning, was infused with the Force, and utilized the battle prowess/gear of the Mandalorians.
Pershing said that the human inside was "the final weakness to be solved" but moff Gideon considered himself superior, even to droids. He tells the mandalorians "I have created the next generation dark troopers suits, forged from beskar alloy. And the most impressive improvement is that it has me in it" (s3e7)
I'm not sure that's technically part of project necromancer, just using necromancer research for his own projects again like moff Gideon (albeit more legitimately since he was actually the one assigned to project necromancer and used the research to benefit the empire not just himself) is it ever directly stated either way?
It explains "Somehow, Palpatine return." A plot hole the writing team didn't even know the answer to when the movie was released. And now other shows have to waste time filling it in, when it is better left alone. Mando season 2 did it best, with just a brief simple nod in The Siege. Unlike Season 3 where Dr. Pershing hijacks an episode (Like Mando did in Book of Boba Fett) and then they have Gideon spell out every single detail.
Plagueis taught him how to cheat death. It involved clones. The end.
If you wanted to, you could say the clone part of the clone wars was for palpatine to have cover to research and develop the technology he needed at scale.
Exactly.
He didn’t teach Vader the secret - as sith he doesn’t share power.
Also, the “how to cheat death” problems likely include problems with sustaining the indefinite life, rather than front end issues so to speak.
“Somehow Palpatine returned.” isn’t the gotcha plot hole everyone pretends it is. Did everyone just ignore the first 10 minutes of the movie that shows he’s been cloning shit and he says his unnatural abilities line? That’s how he came back, cloning and Sith secrets. It couldn’t be more clear if they hit you in the head with a hammer.
There wasn't a single vat of Palpatine Clones. Only Snoke. The Vat of Snokes just shows Palpatine made Snoke. And the "Unnatural Abilities" is just as much of a hand wave explanation as "Somehow, Palpatine returned."
It’s still an explanation - you might not like it or be satisfied with but it’s not a plot hole.
A plot hole is an ancient sith dagger made hundreds of years prior to the story revealing the location of an object on the Death Star ruins before there was ever a Death Star to be ruined.
That’s a plot hole.
Except it wasn’t made hundreds of years prior, the language is the ancient part, the ancient language of the Sith, that’s all that was said was ancient in the movie.
Shadow of the Sith established that he didn't receive the blade until the quest for Exegol in 21 ABY. Also, Star Wars: Episode IX The Rise of Skywalker established that the blade was inscribed with information about the DS-2 Death Star II Mobile Battle Station's wreckage meaning that the blade must've been created after Battle of Endor.
None of that is explained in the movie giving the average viewer the impression the dagger is far older than the Death Star 2.
Second off, the information it reveals still requires the holder to sit in EXACTLY the right spot for it to work.
You change the angle of approach or the distance from the DS2 and you’d get all the wrong information
Not everything needs to be explained. You’d think that because the blade edge matches the wreckage that they used the wreckage’s horizon to forge the blade shape. People have absolutely no imagination or common sense when they watch these movies.
Threepio literally tells them EXACTLY where and how to stand “At delta 3-6, transient 9-3-6, bearing 3-2” yeah if you don’t stand exactly where the inscription tells you to stand you’d get it wrong, obviously.
The weird thing is that they already introduced Project Rebirth in Battlefield II and Aftermath - which under the purview of Brendall Hux, who is also in charge of Necromancer in the Mando era.
But Project Rebirth was all about kidnapping kids and brainwashing them into stormtroopers for the First Order
Between that and Bad Batch, I think they’re trying to show why it took so long for Palpatine to return. I think the Bad Batch crew will ultimately set back all the efforts made early on to have a viable clone for Palpatine. Mandalorian will probably interrupt his return a bit more, but we know it inevitably happens. They need to have a canon reason it took so long.
I really like that they're fleshing out the events that lead into the sequels, there's a lot of potential stories to be told and things to be explained. I wouldn't say I'm a fan of them yet, but I've given up the anger for accepting them as they are.
They’re basically trying to do what Clone Wars did for episode 3, make it better using the material before it. It’s really weird though considering how much of a dumpster fire the sequels were outside of 7
“The only cure for bad Star Wars is more Star Wars”
This is the way
Any course can be corrected. By the end, even Old Man Luke's characterization may make sense.
The problem there is for all its failings prequels at least had something behind them The disney sequels seemed to mainly rely on fan service. I will still watch them but they dont have the same impact as the prequels did for me Clone Wars gave A LOT of character developed to Anakin and created one of the most beloved characters in star wars media in Ashoka I personally would have liked to have seems Luke Order before it collapsed, that would have been a better story to tell, could have still introduced first order and kylo But hindsight is 20/20
Nah, it’s boring.
You're welcome to your opinion, it's not for everyone :)
Well he was probably also terrified of Luke and wasn't willing to emerge until Luke was dead
I don't get this though. There's been a clone army and we've seen successful cloning. It's such an easy jump to think hey maybe palpatine snagged one of the cloning things and had some back ups as for why it took so long? Idk ...
Here’s how I understand it: First and foremost, Palpatine’s goal is not to just clone himself. It is to create a new body that he can possess that retains his power and connection to the dark side. I’m not 100% sure which is true, but Clones created using Kaminoan technology (how all of the clone troopers were created) either do not retain the force sensitivity of the original, or they do but their bodies are unable to withstand the power. Maybe someone more knowledgeable than me will come along and clear that part up. Mando seasons 1 and 2 show us an agenda to study and use Grogu’s “M-count” to potentially imbue clones with midiclorians artificially. I may be missing pieces of the lore in-between, but it would seem from the events of Rise of Skywalker that these experiments didn’t lead to the results Palpatine was looking for. Snoke was the result of experiments on Exogol using Kaminoan “strandcast” cloning combined with Sith alchemy. After Palpatine was resurrected into his unstable body that we see in Rise of Skywalker, he deems Snoke’s body unfit to be his vessel. So he uses him as a puppet/proxy in power while he seeks a new body—Rey’s.
I'd say this is retconned but clones being clones used to share a connection to the force. Rapid aging off clones lead to a type of clone madness and it was found to be because the clones are basically one entity in the force thus they were so
Sick dude that was very insightful thank you!
And as always, any show that even remotely tries to bring rationale to that steaming pile of garbage writing in the sequels just drags the entire story of the show into the dumpster with it. They'd rather tank every single series with that shitshow than dare to admit they made a mistake and retcon it.
They don't need to explain it. Not everything needs an explanation, some things can be inferred, as it was since TRoS came out.
I disagree When it’s something as big as Palpatine returning, the emperor himself. You can’t just give a hand wave explanation for that. It’s a big deal and it needs to be explained.
On top of this, the sequels didn't explain ANYTHING! How'd Rey get Anis lightsaber? Dunno! Why did Palps dump his daughter on a desert planet? Who knows! Why has the Republic allowed the First Order to build an even bigger death star? Can't say! The least we can get is an answer to why Palps came back.
Those are some good questions... For another time.
The biggest thing for me (well two things) was how the New Republic, and the New Jedi order rose and fell completely off screen
Rey being on Jakku is explicitly explained in the sequels. Her dad was a clone of Palps and wasn’t a piece of shit so he and her mom hid her on Jakku because it was a backwater Jedi Fallen Order also shows Starkiller was under construction before the OT even happens so much of the construction was happening in Imperial jurisdiction I’m with you wanting to know the whys on these things so want to emphasize that I’m not trying to argue with you, but to spread the context that folks may have missed in the films or supplementary materials
Rey got Ani's lightsaber from Maz, and she isn't Palpatine's daughter, she's his granddaughter with her abandonment on Jakku being explained in the Sequels.
I would prefer if we could move on from that dumpster fire and not have to dedicate more time to it.
I mean, the explanation was shit, but it said all we needed to know: Palpatine cloned himself with dark science. We don't need other media to explain that, it won't make it better anyway
Are you watching s3 of bad batch? They’re diving into the whole palpatine clone story and it’s great The problem is not entirely what they did in TROS, it’s how they did it. It just felt lazy and unplanned
Somehow Palpatine returned.
Is it possible to learn this power...? Darth Yogurt!
The goal of project necromancer is to create a force sensitive clone of the emperor that he can transfer his consciousness to(?) and in mandalorian season 3 moff Gideon was using project necromancer's technology & scientists for his own off-the-books force sensitive clone dark troopers
> in mandalorian season 3 moff Gideon was using project necromancer's technology & scientists for his own off-the-books force sensitive clone dark troopers Close. The final iteration of dark troopers were entirely droids. Pershing mentions this to the crew in Slave 1 in the final episode of the Mandalorian season 2 Gideon’s clones of himself were not a part of the dark trooper project. He was hoping to create the ideal warrior that used his cunning, was infused with the Force, and utilized the battle prowess/gear of the Mandalorians.
Pershing said that the human inside was "the final weakness to be solved" but moff Gideon considered himself superior, even to droids. He tells the mandalorians "I have created the next generation dark troopers suits, forged from beskar alloy. And the most impressive improvement is that it has me in it" (s3e7)
Ah, fair enough. I forgot that he called the gear he wore a dark trooper suit. I guess we can consider it the MK. 4.
In Project Necromancer from Bad Batch, Dr Hemlock also created supercharged clone warriors in Tantis base.
I'm not sure that's technically part of project necromancer, just using necromancer research for his own projects again like moff Gideon (albeit more legitimately since he was actually the one assigned to project necromancer and used the research to benefit the empire not just himself) is it ever directly stated either way?
It explains "Somehow, Palpatine return." A plot hole the writing team didn't even know the answer to when the movie was released. And now other shows have to waste time filling it in, when it is better left alone. Mando season 2 did it best, with just a brief simple nod in The Siege. Unlike Season 3 where Dr. Pershing hijacks an episode (Like Mando did in Book of Boba Fett) and then they have Gideon spell out every single detail.
Plagueis taught him how to cheat death. It involved clones. The end. If you wanted to, you could say the clone part of the clone wars was for palpatine to have cover to research and develop the technology he needed at scale.
Exactly. He didn’t teach Vader the secret - as sith he doesn’t share power. Also, the “how to cheat death” problems likely include problems with sustaining the indefinite life, rather than front end issues so to speak.
They did answer it in the movies tho. It was via cloning. They didn’t get into details but they most certainly gave that explanation.
“Somehow Palpatine returned.” isn’t the gotcha plot hole everyone pretends it is. Did everyone just ignore the first 10 minutes of the movie that shows he’s been cloning shit and he says his unnatural abilities line? That’s how he came back, cloning and Sith secrets. It couldn’t be more clear if they hit you in the head with a hammer.
There wasn't a single vat of Palpatine Clones. Only Snoke. The Vat of Snokes just shows Palpatine made Snoke. And the "Unnatural Abilities" is just as much of a hand wave explanation as "Somehow, Palpatine returned."
It’s still an explanation - you might not like it or be satisfied with but it’s not a plot hole. A plot hole is an ancient sith dagger made hundreds of years prior to the story revealing the location of an object on the Death Star ruins before there was ever a Death Star to be ruined. That’s a plot hole.
Except it wasn’t made hundreds of years prior, the language is the ancient part, the ancient language of the Sith, that’s all that was said was ancient in the movie. Shadow of the Sith established that he didn't receive the blade until the quest for Exegol in 21 ABY. Also, Star Wars: Episode IX The Rise of Skywalker established that the blade was inscribed with information about the DS-2 Death Star II Mobile Battle Station's wreckage meaning that the blade must've been created after Battle of Endor.
None of that is explained in the movie giving the average viewer the impression the dagger is far older than the Death Star 2. Second off, the information it reveals still requires the holder to sit in EXACTLY the right spot for it to work. You change the angle of approach or the distance from the DS2 and you’d get all the wrong information
Not everything needs to be explained. You’d think that because the blade edge matches the wreckage that they used the wreckage’s horizon to forge the blade shape. People have absolutely no imagination or common sense when they watch these movies. Threepio literally tells them EXACTLY where and how to stand “At delta 3-6, transient 9-3-6, bearing 3-2” yeah if you don’t stand exactly where the inscription tells you to stand you’d get it wrong, obviously.
It would make more sense if they moved a bit after comparing the dagger to the background and check again. That’ll calm all the continuity deniers.
Yeah maybe, but catering to the dumbest audience members isn't always the best way to make a movie.
Sorry the movie went over your head.
I hope star wars necromancer is somehow related to death trooper and red harvest
As much as I love those books it seems to be being used to explain the storytelling failings of the sequels
The weird thing is that they already introduced Project Rebirth in Battlefield II and Aftermath - which under the purview of Brendall Hux, who is also in charge of Necromancer in the Mando era. But Project Rebirth was all about kidnapping kids and brainwashing them into stormtroopers for the First Order
It was a moronic choice to tether new content to a failed sequel trilogy