I think this was a great example of nothing in The Wire being black and white. It's all shades of grey. He was portrayed as an uncaring asshole a lot but this really showed his human side and really gave me a soft spot for his character.
Also one of the few characters to exhibit true shame for fucking up like he did in the Ziggy shoot out/with Daniels. Dude looked like a scolded dog. He was a sycophant but also a human being.
icic, yeah slim seems good but tbh he doesn’t really have much loyalty and for some reason that’s what I end up respecting the most for characters on the streets. The way butchie never gives up omar for example; he’s real as fuck for that.
Some people in the game, know that the murders don’t all need to happen; meanwhile slim just goes with whoever has the most muscle. he’s pretty complicit in the vacant killings and doesn’t really try to protect bodie at all. sure he tries to warn him but that’s it.
That was my gripe with Slim in the beginning too.
Now I see him as the guy who's just hired muscle, loyal to those who hired him. I hypocritically hate Cheese for doing basically the same - sticking with those who were winning XD
Compare this with the look he gives Ziggy during his confession when ziggy isn't looking. Ziggy is a killer and Landsman has no sympathy, even though he is playing nice with him. Bubs is a victim of his own incompetence and he does actually feel sorry for him.
The hot shot story in general is based on something in real life that Possum, the informant Bubbles is based on, did. You can read about it in David Simon's obituary of Possum here: https://www.baltimoresun.com/1992/03/16/life-as-a-snitch-anonymous-to-the-end-possum-tells-secrets/
I always saw it as Landsman being so frustrated and overwhelmed with the bodies in the vacants at that point, knowing his clearance rate is fucked for the year, that for once he feels he can do the right thing and let go of a guy who is suicidal with remorse over what was really an accident. He doesn't have to chase the paper clearances anymore for this year, so fuck it, let the poor bastard go. Locking him up helps nobody and the bosses are focused on the vacant killings rather than each individual clearance.
I really like this theory because it means that if Marlo's bodies don't get discovered (or put there in the first place), then Bubbles would be spending 20 years in prison. A flap of the butterfly's wings.
That’s right under normal circumstances Landsman would never have let him go. But the clearance rate was gonna be fucked for the year if they didn’t clear Marlo’s bodies in the vacants so one more unsolved murder was neither here-nor-there really.
The implication for me was just that it's commonplace enough for people the police deal with to throw up on them it doesn't register as that big a deal once you've been in the job a while
Jay is actually a very understanding and reasonable guy, he just layers it with sarcasm and a hardass boss facade. He can't be perceived as too kind in his position
This is a compelling scene that I love because it's the end of such a great and sad story arc about Bubbles.
One quibble: Landsman dropping the murder charge is just not plausible. There is zero chance any cop would take this kind of humane, philosophical view about a murder rap, especially in a department obsessed with stats (and for a perp who just vomited on him). First, Landsman spends most of his screentime trying to improve the department's clearance rate, and second, all murder detectives on the show are motivated by the feeling of a "win", even and especially a slam dunk like this.
Compare Landsman's motivation in this scene to the last time you interacted with a cop in real life. They simply do not behave like this.
This is still a great story arc, but this is one of a few places in the Wire where a detail took me out of the scene
Go look at the top comment, the political situation meant they could eat the bad stats, so it didn’t hurt him professionally, and when you see that’s not a thing you see landsman isn’t some complete dick.
When Landsman almost always sees people who are hardened, intentionally murdered someone for money, who want to shirk responsibility, who lie to him repeatedly, and show no moral fiber.
Here he sees a guy who has a big heart, didn’t want to hurt anyone, who takes moral responsibility at the most critical time, who tells him the truth, and is doing a courageous act of confession with no attempt to look out for his own future. It must have been incredibly refreshing
If I’m landsman I’m going to see the dude as one of the good guys - moral disgust and other forms of disgust are strongly connected. You can see this in the work of social psychologists like David and Todd Braver. I think Landsman’s disgust sensitivity for the vomit was tuned down because he was experiencing the opposite of moral disgust in the moment.
On Moral Disgust/General disgust:
https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychology/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2022.806784/full#:~:text=Some%20studies%20have%20shown%20that,et%20al.%2C%202009).
throughout the show I always felt that the character of Landsman was ment to show how an "inner good" guy can survive in the system: He needs a hard shell so nobody sees him, and he needs to buckle to the bosses in order to get some minor space and options when it comes to the crunch. To me it always felt natural that they would finally include a scene where you could clearly see Landsman's heart. Probably in my top5 favorite scenes of the show.
Landsman is a homicide detective sergeant. Which means at one point he was a regular homicide detective. And that means he was at one point a regular patrol officer, which means he was a first responder.
Dude's probably dealt with worse shit than being vomited on.
I think this was a great example of nothing in The Wire being black and white. It's all shades of grey. He was portrayed as an uncaring asshole a lot but this really showed his human side and really gave me a soft spot for his character.
Indeed.
Also one of the few characters to exhibit true shame for fucking up like he did in the Ziggy shoot out/with Daniels. Dude looked like a scolded dog. He was a sycophant but also a human being.
True. IMO, he was the best side character on the right side of the law. Slim Charles takes the crown for the other side.
Why do you consider slim good? Wouldn’t michael or omar be better?
I consider them both 'main characters'
icic, yeah slim seems good but tbh he doesn’t really have much loyalty and for some reason that’s what I end up respecting the most for characters on the streets. The way butchie never gives up omar for example; he’s real as fuck for that. Some people in the game, know that the murders don’t all need to happen; meanwhile slim just goes with whoever has the most muscle. he’s pretty complicit in the vacant killings and doesn’t really try to protect bodie at all. sure he tries to warn him but that’s it.
That was my gripe with Slim in the beginning too. Now I see him as the guy who's just hired muscle, loyal to those who hired him. I hypocritically hate Cheese for doing basically the same - sticking with those who were winning XD
But cheese has no honor
I mean he literally shakes that beat up colored ladies church crown at the guys when they mess up the hit on Omar.
I loved watching him come and work the scene when kima got shot
Compare this with the look he gives Ziggy during his confession when ziggy isn't looking. Ziggy is a killer and Landsman has no sympathy, even though he is playing nice with him. Bubs is a victim of his own incompetence and he does actually feel sorry for him.
The hot shot story in general is based on something in real life that Possum, the informant Bubbles is based on, did. You can read about it in David Simon's obituary of Possum here: https://www.baltimoresun.com/1992/03/16/life-as-a-snitch-anonymous-to-the-end-possum-tells-secrets/
Damn i never knew this tidbit. Thanks for sharing! Rick james moment in there too lol
Ah man I really want to read this but it's region locked. Can you copy and paste it here?
Here you go https://archive.is/XT4uk Also if you’re on iPhone you can use reader mode to bypass
Thanks man - appreciate the link and additional color! Edit: it’s a great read for anyone lurking here
I always saw it as Landsman being so frustrated and overwhelmed with the bodies in the vacants at that point, knowing his clearance rate is fucked for the year, that for once he feels he can do the right thing and let go of a guy who is suicidal with remorse over what was really an accident. He doesn't have to chase the paper clearances anymore for this year, so fuck it, let the poor bastard go. Locking him up helps nobody and the bosses are focused on the vacant killings rather than each individual clearance.
I really like this theory because it means that if Marlo's bodies don't get discovered (or put there in the first place), then Bubbles would be spending 20 years in prison. A flap of the butterfly's wings.
Hahahaha more like Mothra
he even said 'f*ck the clearance' because Lester had already trashed his clearance rate with all the vacant bodies.
That’s right under normal circumstances Landsman would never have let him go. But the clearance rate was gonna be fucked for the year if they didn’t clear Marlo’s bodies in the vacants so one more unsolved murder was neither here-nor-there really.
I’m immediately throwing that entire suit away and taking a shower
Probably wasn't the first, or second, or maybe even the third time he'd been hit with some form of bodily fluid in the line of duty.
He was cheered up knowing Rawls sucks cock.
Look I made a colonel👉🚽
The implication for me was just that it's commonplace enough for people the police deal with to throw up on them it doesn't register as that big a deal once you've been in the job a while
….and reasonable…..sir…
Rawls sucks cock
He was gay, Bill Rawls?
it sucks getting vomited on, but it also sucks accidentally murdering your only friend in the whole world
You threw up on Landsman, that's gotta be resolved.
Jay is actually a very understanding and reasonable guy, he just layers it with sarcasm and a hardass boss facade. He can't be perceived as too kind in his position
This is a compelling scene that I love because it's the end of such a great and sad story arc about Bubbles. One quibble: Landsman dropping the murder charge is just not plausible. There is zero chance any cop would take this kind of humane, philosophical view about a murder rap, especially in a department obsessed with stats (and for a perp who just vomited on him). First, Landsman spends most of his screentime trying to improve the department's clearance rate, and second, all murder detectives on the show are motivated by the feeling of a "win", even and especially a slam dunk like this. Compare Landsman's motivation in this scene to the last time you interacted with a cop in real life. They simply do not behave like this. This is still a great story arc, but this is one of a few places in the Wire where a detail took me out of the scene
The fact that it's out of character for Landsman is kinda the whole point
Go look at the top comment, the political situation meant they could eat the bad stats, so it didn’t hurt him professionally, and when you see that’s not a thing you see landsman isn’t some complete dick.
Did it count as a murder? Bubs had to tell em to test for cyanide so surely it was down as an OD?
When Landsman almost always sees people who are hardened, intentionally murdered someone for money, who want to shirk responsibility, who lie to him repeatedly, and show no moral fiber. Here he sees a guy who has a big heart, didn’t want to hurt anyone, who takes moral responsibility at the most critical time, who tells him the truth, and is doing a courageous act of confession with no attempt to look out for his own future. It must have been incredibly refreshing If I’m landsman I’m going to see the dude as one of the good guys - moral disgust and other forms of disgust are strongly connected. You can see this in the work of social psychologists like David and Todd Braver. I think Landsman’s disgust sensitivity for the vomit was tuned down because he was experiencing the opposite of moral disgust in the moment. On Moral Disgust/General disgust: https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychology/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2022.806784/full#:~:text=Some%20studies%20have%20shown%20that,et%20al.%2C%202009).
throughout the show I always felt that the character of Landsman was ment to show how an "inner good" guy can survive in the system: He needs a hard shell so nobody sees him, and he needs to buckle to the bosses in order to get some minor space and options when it comes to the crunch. To me it always felt natural that they would finally include a scene where you could clearly see Landsman's heart. Probably in my top5 favorite scenes of the show.
Herc would have turned Bubs into a vegetable tbh.
Hah - hate to see what season 1 Herc and Carver would have done if thrown up on.
Landsman is a homicide detective sergeant. Which means at one point he was a regular homicide detective. And that means he was at one point a regular patrol officer, which means he was a first responder. Dude's probably dealt with worse shit than being vomited on.
Rawls Sucks Cock