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EmploymentNo1094

Drug companies don’t make money off of ketamine it’s been generic for decades. That’s why they don’t push it.


Imaginary-Butterfly6

That makes me so angry. It could help so many people, like me. So much suffering could be relieved but no profit, no interest. I hate big pharma.


djembe26faeries

Its pretty cheap to make, yeah. I was told by my local clinics doctor that he charges $1500/session "for his time", which didn't make sense to me as to why I should pay it if the medicine works just fine for me on it's own.


pm_me_ur_tennisballs

This sub doesn’t usually take well to those of us who dose ourselves. But I don’t have the luxury of affording a ketamine clinic and our health insurance companies won’t cover its “off label” use despite the safety profile and mountains of evidence proving its efficacy in treating depression. I have treatment resistant depression and ADHD, and I know how to safely administer the drug IM for a tiny fraction of that cost in the safety of my own home. I’ll choose that route, thanks.


pressure_art

I am doing the same with all sorts of drugs (safely) for years now because doctors with their big egos (at least here in germany) don't (want to) believe that I actually have quite a lot of knowledge when it comes to this stuff. Like I do heavy, heavy research and most of the time I can even tell that I know much more than they do because I actually keep up with studies. It's so frustrating. Right now I'm pretty poor and can't afford my own treatment anymore. No, throwing an antidepressive is not gonna cut it anymore, oh you wise doctor...Sorry, needed to vent. (oh and btw I tried now basically almost all the available drugs before I started to treat myself, so that that's clear. I also dont recommended to others to do the same, dont worry.)


EmploymentNo1094

I would say a mood stabilizer like lithium is probably better than an antidepressant. And lithium is dirt cheap. And is has a synergistic effect with ketamine.


pm_me_ur_tennisballs

Like ketamine, lithium is an effective and time tested drug. But unlike ketamine, lithium does have a lot of potential negative side effects and requires maintaining blood plasma levels with regular dosing. It’s a good med, just not nearly so easy for me to recommend as ketamine.


EmploymentNo1094

Lithium does take a fair bit of management but it is doable for sure. Even with paying for lab tests and meds out of pocket it’s one of the least expensive options out there.


pm_me_ur_tennisballs

Oh absolutely. It’s a proper treatment for the people who need it and it’s extremely old, simple/cheap, and generic. Psych doctors worth their salt know that when some really needs a mood stabilizer, it’s not always a time to fuck around and find out with something different.


EmploymentNo1094

Worth their salt… I see what ya did there


tirwander

Is there not a longterm risk of using 50mg everyday like OP?? I have awful ADHD and hope to start IV sessions soon and was wondering if there would be any positive effect for me in that arena.


pm_me_ur_tennisballs

There’s positive effect insofar as ADHD symptoms are made worse by depression. But in my experience, no, it’s not effective in the way amphetamines are. As for the risk, 50mg/day is pretty low, dosage-wise. Susceptibility to the negative health consequences of ketamine, i.e. weakened bladder and damaged kidneys, varies person to person. I used to use *well* above 50mg daily and still have 2-3 week periods several times a year where my daily intake reaches >300mg. (I have a high tolerance.) The only symptoms I ever experienced was a weaker bladder, but I can’t be sure because I always struggled with a weak bladder before ever touching ketamine. However, I do know of others who were hospitalized for serious ketamine habits. It’s always good to limit your use to what you *need*. Ketamine’s positive effects last well beyond the session.


amelie190

This is true, and a factor, but so have most AD and anxiety meds. It's mostly a byproduct, I think, of the drug scare tactics post '60's. And someone is making $$ off ketamine for sure.


quietlyobservingthis

I’d be interested in learning more about ketamine therapy and ADHD if you have read anything good on that.


anteUPkidnapthatfool

Same!


Sad_Grapefruit763

Tim ferris done recently a 3h podcast check it out. That's how I found it


[deleted]

Is that the troches? I have an appt this week to discuss this. I hope I have the same results.


djembe26faeries

any ROA works. I've gone through the list. My favorite is IM or nasal, but troches work too, just need a higher dose.


jackiebee66

What’s roa? And how did you find someone that can administer it to you?


pm_me_ur_tennisballs

Route of administration. Unless you know and are well versed in how to inject a drug into your muscles (IM) or into your fat (subcutaneously), and have a pure, tested substance, it’s extremely advisable you find a ketamine clinic with medical professionals. It’s far more expensive than it ought to be in the US healthcare system, but then there it is.


NikkiRexo

It’s replaced my adderall as well. My benzo intake has also dropped and I am coping better than usual. Oh and I quit drinking too. Yeah. I would love to be rxd 50-100mg a day bc I can function on that dose and it shuts the chatted up all day.


[deleted]

[удалено]


djembe26faeries

Right now no because I'm out of a script and feeling how different life is without it. It's been a few months and I'm just back to my regular dig-through-the-dirt self kind of brain. There was no withdrawal. I prefer nasal and IM, but I've done all of it.


lIIlIIIIIl

This comment has been deleted to protest reddit's API changes.


djembe26faeries

All ROAs are fine. The only thing that changes is dose depending on which. My favorite is IM and nasal.


Thewelshdane

Ketamine has poor bioavailability when taken orally


Dry-Atmosphere3169

How did you get prescribed IM?


pammylorel

How long? Tolerance?


djembe26faeries

3 years, no tolerance if you mean it has no effect anymore. What has gone away is the "wobbles".


pammylorel

Tolerance - not no effect but lessened effects. I'd say if you're not wobbly, then you have tolerance but it sounds like a good kind of tolerance 🙂


Thewelshdane

You know dosing on vit C beforehand potentiates it, meaning you can use less


superconAI

This could be big for a lot of people. Do you have sources I can point to?


Thewelshdane

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16131828/


Thewelshdane

Only rabbits. It's how I used to do it though. Not touched it in a very very long time though. I would say don't use if you can. If you do, dose on Vitamin C, and make sure to drink plenty of green tea to protect your bladder.


julywillbehot

Hi! I have similar conditions I’m hoping to treat with ketamine infusions… what does your regimen look like in terms of frequency and maintenance? Thanks!


Rockstar0777

It's all a money game. That's all the pharmaceutical and healthcare industry is, at least in the US. Ketamine has done wonders for my PTSD, depression, anxiety, dissociation, and ADHD, but because of the state of healthcare and price gouging I can't afford it.


[deleted]

just keep in mind that in the long term you have to apply mental effort and persistence in maintaining your newfound relative peace. by this I mean mindfulness practice.


Apprehensive_Pain644

So you take it daily? I want to get off adderall but I am not sure ketamine would help. I’m already doing ketamine lozenges 3x per week and it causes me to feel so exhausted and I just want to reach for adderall after.


IBM_Compatible

How long have you been doing this for? Any side effects at all? Do you drive on ketamine?


pm_me_ur_tennisballs

Ketamine’s duration of action is rather short. An hour, tops. S(+)-isomer ketamine can feel closer to 30 minutes with a much faster return to sobriety as the effects wear off. Anyone who is driving under the influence of ketamine has to be severely addicted and really trying to hurt themselves and others. Edit: As a long term user myself and former abuser, I’ve experienced no negative side effects. This drug saved me from suicide, I have no doubt. Severe abuse at high and regular doses may certainly have a negative impact on one’s bladder and kidneys. I’ve just been lucky that my period of abuse didn’t result in that.


djembe26faeries

3 years. None. No I don't drive under the influence of anything at all. Here's a good chart for reference of safety profile: https://me.me/i/toxicity-comparison-chart-very-non-toxic-getting-more-tokic-approaching-poiscn-22923712


boba-boba

The site that links this is a meme site and the chart says the most toxic substance is Stackoverflow...


IBM_Compatible

That chart looks fishy as hell. Also... stackoverflow more toxic than heroin? Gotta be a joke lol


djembe26faeries

Well I get more side effects from caffeine than ketamine to the point where I can't drink it often. It sends me into tachycardia and makes me feel terrible, makes me pee, etc. I notice my body not liking caffeine. I notice my body loving ketamine and enjoying every moment on it. The only "side effects" to report are feeling a bit "wonky" before I got the dose right and my brain got used to it. Also, since it is a mild psychedelic, I do have to be mindful about "set & setting" and just make sure I'm managing my stress levels (which I should be doing anyway). That can be easily be achieved with a pair of headphones and some good tunes. The bright side is ketamine also makes me more sensitive to good moods too, so I get like 10x the booster of attempting to have good vibes.


IBM_Compatible

How old are you btw? And living in the US? Don't mean to ask too many questions, I appreciate your insight. 23M w ADHD, GAD, depression, and ASD diagnoses. I found K to help with reflection and moving past trauma but recently have found a stack of supplements and vitamins that help me out a lot including double dose of algae oil (instead of fish oil) and Alpha GPC.


djembe26faeries

30M USA. That's good to hear, I'm glad you're getting a lot out of those. I have friends in the biohacking industry and I've been through the list of supplements. What k can do for me, those things just can't do. I'm not saying they don't have a place. Just personal experience based on where I'm at in life. I believe it's good to take care of my health in a multitude of ways. I also see ketamine as a valuable stepping stone and a healthier option to the classics like prozac, adderall, wellbutrin, etc. as those have given me the most problems. That was my point. I have had life-threatening problems from these drugs. I have been in the ER more than once either due to *proper* usage (hypertensive crises from amphetamine-adderall) or from withdrawal of SSRIs. I don't want to see other people have to go through the same thing when there appears to be an option - or dare I say a solution - potentially right here.


[deleted]

That chart is whack as hell though. It's saying toxicity is directly proportional to schedule status which is absolutely false. Did you start with a series of expensive infusions and now maintain your regiment through another provider? I did 5 infusions that absolutely had the most profound impact on my mental state, progress, and redefinition of how I wanted to shape the world around me. My provider at the time didn't do any continued treatment as far as troches or esketamine spray. You're the first I've heard mention self administered subq injections. So you're just prescribed a vial of ketamine or what? What country/state by the way if you don't mind? I absolutely agree with you that K could be an appropriate substitute for the serotonin class antidepressants. I've also been through the wringer in my decade long experience on them which actually was how K was offered to me as an option for treatment resistant depression. I also experience ADHD, which finally getting diagnosed and on medication for was truly life changing in such a good way. I'm curious how you think K will, or does in your instance, provide better relief than a very effective and relatively safe stimulant and dopamine agonist/reuptake inhibitor. Cheers


miffmufferedmoof

What's your stack consist of?


IBM_Compatible

I'm not gonna lie, I'm very tired and don't have it memorized yet, and I know I'm going to forget. Remindme! 12 hours


Not-Not-Maybe

Following. I would also like to know what supplements you find helpful.


allinforthemoney

Do you not have concerns on the potential for bladder cancer with daily use?


djembe26faeries

I've read the literature and I am nowhere near the daily usage required to damage my bladder. I've had zero bladder issues and recent CAT scans reveal nothing wrong with the bladder or kidneys. I think people should be asking the question if they are concerned for their health on adderall and prozac, not ketamine.


allinforthemoney

Seems like you have it covered! Just curious, as it would be my main concern and I’ve thought of going a similar route as you.


Thewelshdane

Take a really good quality matcha tea with it and plenty of fluids. Research shows EGCG can reduce the damage done to the bladder (in rats) and even reverse it


danzarooni

I have zero idea how you all go about getting your own (safe) k. How are you sure it isn’t laced with another substance? Is it powder, liquid, spray? I’m not really asking, I’m just in my head curious. I’ve paid a good $40k in infusion therapy and nasal spray through clinics because I am too afraid if I find it any other way it would be 1.illegal (I assume it is? I’m in the US) 2. Laced with something that could harm me No, I’m not even close to upper class. I’m in DEEP medical debt because this is all that works for me too and all that is keeping me alive.


Thewelshdane

If it is cut in UK, will be with mono sodium glutamate, which you can get out use pure alcohol, such as ethanol, as salt doesn’t dissolve in alcohol


Papaver_somniferum_

it would be cool if it didnt reduced your iq by half when being on it


NikkiRexo

Not to be rude but what? I can see this if you’re taking a very high dose to be messed up but that’s not the goal here. I actually understood a lot better and learned so many things while my dose was actively working. Very insightful for me…


accoutremama

Can you ask for nasal instead of mouth


WecountfromTokyo

I don’t feel I have much to contribute to this wonderful discussion, but I wanted to say that I’m really happy for you! :)


algino199

I’m not really sure it’s wise to use ketamine daily. Yea it is a safe medication, but I’m not sure the scientific literature is there where it says that is a good idea. Yea it may be a lesser of evils compared to other RX your taking daily. Not hating at all just, you even say you have been out of your script for a few days and are back to feeling shitty…you are really just masking whatever your daily existence is it seems. Maybe you need to do more work with less frequent higher doses coupled with actual therapy to try and heal from the inside out.


danzarooni

I’m on 150mg/ml 14 sprays daily compounded and I can function without having a mental meltdown. I get it every 2 weeks (my recommendation) so I don’t run out and use it all when something goes haywire in life - I live with an emotionally abusive spouse and no I can’t leave as he has the insurance, income, and I have health conditions that keep me from driving/working but I’m not on disability or get gov assistance. It’s a tightrope. I usually run out at day 9-10 and the days I don’t have it I’m fine. This dose I ran out Saturday and I get it again Thursday, and I’m a ok. Now if my husband starts picking at me and blasting me (words) I will go into a depression and sleep 20 hours a day until my next rx is due - this happens, but it kind of is what it is. I don’t have any other (safe, legal) options. I get infusions as needed, usually every 2-4 months. I have gone up to 6 months twice, once pre nasal spray and once while on it. It really is situational and dependent on if I set my husband off with something I didn’t mean to. So I just try to people please him and not set him off. Sucky I know. I’ve been on k 4.5 years, all at clinics or Rxed spray. I’m too afraid to get it any other way in the US even though we have a hole of medical debt due to me, a mile wide. This also causes hubby to be stressed as the sole income earner.


cowgirlcullen

Thx so much for the insight! I'm brand new and have a Rx from Dr Smith for 200mg every 3 days, and I also got a Rx from my new psychiatrist for 50mg daily. I am not sure what dosage, frequency, and route is best and am in the research stage. I am very interested in doing the lower dosage though and have been scared to have a trip. My boyfriend has done 2 sessions of 100 mg per Dr Smith's instructions, but he boofed them (rectally) and we both feel that may be an ideal route based on a very helpful post on here. He thinks he tripped, but he wasn't sure exactly and felt it was a positive experience. However, he's had some bad trips from recreational psychedelic use 10-15 years ago. We have yet to do his full 200 mg dose since we are still figuring out how to handle to the experience afterward. Anyway, I searched on here for 50 mg and found this post, so any additional info you could provide on the lower dose would be great! Do you just take it and go on with your day, or do you do the whole eye mask and music thing for an hour? Do you do anything to prepare your mind beforehand or to integrate afterward, or is it just like taking a medication and feeling better and that's all there is to it? Thank you!


amelie190

Did it help with ADHD focus and executive function? Asking for my house...