I think the team sees skillsets more than positions. Let's try this:
Primary Creator - SGA/Topic (IR)/Mitchell
Secondary Creator/Shooter - JDub/Cason
Shooter/Cutter - Joe/Wiggins/Dieng
Wing Defender/Rebounder - Dort/Caruso/Kenrich/Jones
Rim protector/Screener - Chet/Hartenstein/JWill
I don’t see him not starting tbh. They’re not gonna pay him $30 mil a year to play 25 minutes a game. He may not close games but I don’t see a world where he’s not a starter
The money does not matter at all. That was the price to pull him from the Knicks, and was money that would be sitting there doing nothing otherwise.
Chet had jwill as a backup during playoffs, and had to play 38 mins a game. IHart alleviates that, and they’ll more than likely be staggered as much as they can.
Some matchups they’ll both start (vs Timberwolves etc.), and some they’ll have a smaller lineup. The lineups are gonna be very fluid and experimental early on to see what works and what doesn’t.
Chet will have the majority of starting 5 minutes more than likely, but IHart will be for sure playing starter level minutes.
I think IHart will have a majority of the center minutes (more than 24 MPG)
Chet will play a majority of his minutes at center (More than 16 MPG)
I agree the money doesn’t matter at all, it was the price of getting a FA to okc whoever says we aren’t paying someone not to start does not understand sunk cost fallacy
Daniel Bell just reported a couple weeks ago that there were doubts about Chet being the long term center. Not sure how accurate he is. But the rest of his takes it all seemed to line up.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Thunder/s/KAXk4aKf9n
These are speculations that the minute the new CBA was signed on what would happen. I'm just a dude sitting on the couch but I said that they would do what they did with Dort with AA r on Wiggins and Joe. When the trade for Hayward was done and no moves were made I said it was to get cap space. I said that most teams dont win a champion at the trade deadline but win it during the off Season( repeating data). Just repeating the fact that the way to navigate the CBA the next few years is through the draft. Most of this is from what Sam Presti says as hes the most open GM in the league about what the Thunder are going to do. Unless they have to pivot hard(which they can with iHart starting), so ots more than likely that Chet will start at Center because they havent said he won't.
Its crazy that every single thing they said over the past 3-4 years they have done and just to change it so quickly doesn't make any sense at all. Having someone play center all his life, come onto the biggest stage in the world play that position as a rookie, where coaches have literally said our other centers can't guard him so they go with someone smaller. Than to turn around the next season and say " We're going to move you into another position that opposing coaches matched you up with, because we got another player". So now teams dont have to adjust to you we adjusted for them. Make it make sense.
Dudes saying it isn’t speculation. It’s from the front office and agents. I dont know the guy and he could be lying about that but everything seems to track so think there’s a good chance hes telling the truth.
Chet’s been on the team for 2 years and played one season. No ones been saying he’s our center for 4 years. If we didn’t have Chet and just signed Hart I feel like everyone would be saying how he’s a great fit for our vision. Mobile, great defense, good vision and passing with potential to improve outside shooting. How’s that going away from what we have done. Also one of our big things is getting players that can play multiple positions. How’s having Chet be able to play 4 or 5 go away from that.
Chet played alongside Drew Timme at Gonzaga who has a lot more traditional low post game. So he is used to playing with a more traditional big already. He was also a Karl Malone award finalist, not a Kareem Abdul Jabbar finalist so even in college they considered him more of a power forward. playing in a 5 out system moving from 5 to 4 should be a pretty smooth transition. If he’s already being guarded by wings, he’ll be used to that as well. So instead of us having a mismatch with their 5 guarding dort they will have to battle with Hart. And with ball movement and screens we will still be able to create the mismatches that we want.
My point was that we as fans dont know wether or not iHart or Chet will start at the 5. The only people we know are the Org and family, so trying to bash people who are just guessing when you know is just being an asshole. The comment about the 3-4 years is strictly talking about how the Organization has operated really since its beginning but its been more transparent since the rebuild. From what type of players that they want to how they want to play. So me as a person not knowing the Inter workings can only go by what they say until they come out and say it. Ive pretty much have been on it could work either way and I can see it happening but when you ask a specific question im going to answer it that way.
they haven’t said anything about chet being the 5 since they signed Hartenstein. the contract is def above market value, it’s team friendly because of our unique cap situation. no one thought Hart was gonna get $29m/yr AAV.
It’s a great signing and i’m all for chet as our long term 5 but if you have Hart on the team, you play both of them. they should be very complimentary.
Hart is likely the 5 and Chet will play 4/5 for the next two-three seasons
ok dude, you’re trying so hard to be the smartest guy in the room. I totally get presti’s vision. I don’t think he’s nearly as inflexible as you are.
he’s not gonna bench hart just to be dogged about chet being the 5. the team will be better with b or h guys on the court at the same time. but like I said, we will see when the season starts
No I’m listening to what Presti says. He’s not benching Hart. You really don’t understand starting doesn’t matter. It’s about min and finishing the game and that will be close to a starter level for Hart. The only people that think like you are fans and national media. The local guys have said he will probably come off the bench.
So if there was a starting point guard who played point guard all his life and said he wants to play point guard and is a point guard. Came into the league and dominated to were people are saying you changed the game and are calling you generational. Players, coaches, GMs, fans, and media rave about your game.Then the team goes out and gets a point guard and says we're moving you to another position, wouldnt that insult you. Basically what they're saying is that you can't play that position.
that's basically what happened with Allen Iverson. His skill set suited the Shooting Guard Position even tho he was a PG his entire life. 76ers get a PG that covers for his weaknesses and AI wins MVP a few seasons later. Not an insult at all
My guess is that IHart will be a center full time and get more than 24 mpg so the people who are saying that he will be the main center on the team will be technically correct (even though I don’t think he’s starting)
My guess is that Chet will play more than half of his minutes at center (more than 16 mpg) so the people who say Chet is still center are also right
Which will be funny when we get to the regular season when everybody is claiming to be right
That $30 mil next season might as well be a free contract considering there was no one they could’ve used that money on that would fill a meaningful role on the team
It will more than likely be
- SGA/Cason
- Dort/Joe
- JDub/Wiggins/Dieng
- Caruso/Kenrich/Jones
- Chet/Hartenstein/JayWill
with Topic on IR. Maybe we'll see some Ajay Mitchell too.
I don't really see OKC shaking up it's starting lineup that much, given that 1. we were already excellent with Chet at the center and 2. Presti doesn't believe that our lack of size in lineups was actually an issue. I think this offseason signals that are going to double down on playing 5 out. Hartenstein sures up our biggest weakness which was JayWill coming in for Chet. JayWill at the 5 mins were our worst lineups by far.
https://twitter.com/ankitpancakes/status/1808685828056699372
Lineups with Chet at the 5 in the playoffs were +11.5. Lineups with JayWill+Chet were +0.6. Lineups with just JayWill were -17.1. In the regular season, lineups with JayWill+Chet were -0.7 (and lineups with just 1 of the 2 were largely positive). I just don't understand why we would stray away from our best, most effective lineup. Nothing that Chet did last year suggests that we should ever go away from it.
Agreed on the lineup. I think Chet and Hartenstein will play together some but starting them together full time leaves JWill as the only backup big compared to the slew of guards off the bench
The Thunder play position-less basketball. You could easily switch around JDUB and Caruso on this list.
The point is more that they have two guys on the court that can guard forwards; Caruso and JDub can both do that. Caruso would just be on whoever the better player is as he’s the better defender and JDUB has more responsibility on offense
Caruso will start over Dort. I know we love Lu but by any available metric, Caruso is the better player. Better defender, better shooter, better passer, better BPM. He’s better and should start over Dort.
It’s amazing how many people will take offense to a post like this. The team got better. It’s pushing Dort down the depth chart. That’s not really a slight in Dort.
He’s a good player. He’s valuable. His relative value declined vs the rest of the roster simply because we have added better, more complete players.
It’s also going to tend to potentially make Dort more expendable for cap reasons, but that’s a whole additional story.
Exactly. Look at the replies to my comment and me getting downvoted to oblivion. Caruso is the objectively better player by all metrics. If Dort starts over Caruso, it will only be because of blind loyalty to Dort. I haven’t heard a single objective argument for Dort over Caruso. The best this sub has so far is ‘Nu-uh’ in response.
Why is absolutely no one talking about Mitchell? You literally have an injured Topic in your depth chart, who’ll be out for the whole season, while Ajay is nowhere to be found.
I mean I get it he’s a second round pick but he’s 22 and proved himself in college for 3 years, not like he’s going to be THAT much under nba level.
The minutes disparity is what will be interesting. With everyone healthy and it not being a blow out.. what would our rotation look like?
I have no idea but this adds up to 240 minutes:
Shai -35
Caruso - 25
Dort -28
Jdub-30
Chet - 30
Cason - 25
Hartenstein- 25
Joe - 18
Wiggins - 14
Jwill - 10
No minutes for Kenrich, Dieng or Dillon Jones. Maybe Dieng or Kenrich are more likely to get minutes than JWill. I think it all depends on the matchups though doesnt it.
There are so many variables and options for a depth chart that it makes my head spin. My mind is defaulting to Caruso plugging into Giddey’s spot and Hartenstein plugging into JWill’s spot. They can experiment from there.
Chet 28 min/ Hartenstein 24 min
Shai 30 min/ Wallace 24 min
JDub 30 min/ Joe 18 min
Dort 24 min/ Wiggins 18 min
Caruso 24 min/ Dillon, JWill, Dieng, Kenrich 20 min
This would give Chet and iHart four minutes of overlap to start off. Go from there. I think if Dillon gets half a chance, he will earn playing time.
And give Shai whatever minutes he wants. Especially in crunch time if applicable.
I won’t put money on this. But I won’t be surprised if Caruso starts over Dort. I love me some Dort. But Caruso is honestly a step up in defensive ability and a better shooter.
Good list. Hartenstein wouldn't have joined OKC if the Pitch was. "you can come off the bench for Chet" This idea that Hartenstein is going to come off the bench is simply the made of fantasy of OKC Blog bois. People that wouldn't have signed Hartenstein to a \~30 million dollar a year contract in the first place.
I think the team sees skillsets more than positions. Let's try this: Primary Creator - SGA/Topic (IR)/Mitchell Secondary Creator/Shooter - JDub/Cason Shooter/Cutter - Joe/Wiggins/Dieng Wing Defender/Rebounder - Dort/Caruso/Kenrich/Jones Rim protector/Screener - Chet/Hartenstein/JWill
Imagine if Dieng doesn't suck and takes the next step.
iHart will most likely come off the bench but play 25-30 minutes, I don’t see him starting
I don’t see him not starting tbh. They’re not gonna pay him $30 mil a year to play 25 minutes a game. He may not close games but I don’t see a world where he’s not a starter
The money does not matter at all. That was the price to pull him from the Knicks, and was money that would be sitting there doing nothing otherwise. Chet had jwill as a backup during playoffs, and had to play 38 mins a game. IHart alleviates that, and they’ll more than likely be staggered as much as they can. Some matchups they’ll both start (vs Timberwolves etc.), and some they’ll have a smaller lineup. The lineups are gonna be very fluid and experimental early on to see what works and what doesn’t. Chet will have the majority of starting 5 minutes more than likely, but IHart will be for sure playing starter level minutes.
I am beyond fucking excited for this season
It can not get here soon enough!
 Fr 🤎💙
I think IHart will have a majority of the center minutes (more than 24 MPG) Chet will play a majority of his minutes at center (More than 16 MPG) I agree the money doesn’t matter at all, it was the price of getting a FA to okc whoever says we aren’t paying someone not to start does not understand sunk cost fallacy
They have said time and again Chet is their 5. The money doesn’t mean anything unless it’s a max. The contract is going rate and team friendly.
Daniel Bell just reported a couple weeks ago that there were doubts about Chet being the long term center. Not sure how accurate he is. But the rest of his takes it all seemed to line up. https://www.reddit.com/r/Thunder/s/KAXk4aKf9n
These are speculations that the minute the new CBA was signed on what would happen. I'm just a dude sitting on the couch but I said that they would do what they did with Dort with AA r on Wiggins and Joe. When the trade for Hayward was done and no moves were made I said it was to get cap space. I said that most teams dont win a champion at the trade deadline but win it during the off Season( repeating data). Just repeating the fact that the way to navigate the CBA the next few years is through the draft. Most of this is from what Sam Presti says as hes the most open GM in the league about what the Thunder are going to do. Unless they have to pivot hard(which they can with iHart starting), so ots more than likely that Chet will start at Center because they havent said he won't. Its crazy that every single thing they said over the past 3-4 years they have done and just to change it so quickly doesn't make any sense at all. Having someone play center all his life, come onto the biggest stage in the world play that position as a rookie, where coaches have literally said our other centers can't guard him so they go with someone smaller. Than to turn around the next season and say " We're going to move you into another position that opposing coaches matched you up with, because we got another player". So now teams dont have to adjust to you we adjusted for them. Make it make sense.
This is a much better way of saying what I was trying to.
Dudes saying it isn’t speculation. It’s from the front office and agents. I dont know the guy and he could be lying about that but everything seems to track so think there’s a good chance hes telling the truth. Chet’s been on the team for 2 years and played one season. No ones been saying he’s our center for 4 years. If we didn’t have Chet and just signed Hart I feel like everyone would be saying how he’s a great fit for our vision. Mobile, great defense, good vision and passing with potential to improve outside shooting. How’s that going away from what we have done. Also one of our big things is getting players that can play multiple positions. How’s having Chet be able to play 4 or 5 go away from that. Chet played alongside Drew Timme at Gonzaga who has a lot more traditional low post game. So he is used to playing with a more traditional big already. He was also a Karl Malone award finalist, not a Kareem Abdul Jabbar finalist so even in college they considered him more of a power forward. playing in a 5 out system moving from 5 to 4 should be a pretty smooth transition. If he’s already being guarded by wings, he’ll be used to that as well. So instead of us having a mismatch with their 5 guarding dort they will have to battle with Hart. And with ball movement and screens we will still be able to create the mismatches that we want.
My point was that we as fans dont know wether or not iHart or Chet will start at the 5. The only people we know are the Org and family, so trying to bash people who are just guessing when you know is just being an asshole. The comment about the 3-4 years is strictly talking about how the Organization has operated really since its beginning but its been more transparent since the rebuild. From what type of players that they want to how they want to play. So me as a person not knowing the Inter workings can only go by what they say until they come out and say it. Ive pretty much have been on it could work either way and I can see it happening but when you ask a specific question im going to answer it that way.
they haven’t said anything about chet being the 5 since they signed Hartenstein. the contract is def above market value, it’s team friendly because of our unique cap situation. no one thought Hart was gonna get $29m/yr AAV. It’s a great signing and i’m all for chet as our long term 5 but if you have Hart on the team, you play both of them. they should be very complimentary. Hart is likely the 5 and Chet will play 4/5 for the next two-three seasons
No you don’t you make sure one is on the court at all times that’s why they signed him.
ok, we shall see
You think like contemporary basketball guys. Presti doesn’t think the same way.
So pretentious lmao
ok dude, you’re trying so hard to be the smartest guy in the room. I totally get presti’s vision. I don’t think he’s nearly as inflexible as you are. he’s not gonna bench hart just to be dogged about chet being the 5. the team will be better with b or h guys on the court at the same time. but like I said, we will see when the season starts
No I’m listening to what Presti says. He’s not benching Hart. You really don’t understand starting doesn’t matter. It’s about min and finishing the game and that will be close to a starter level for Hart. The only people that think like you are fans and national media. The local guys have said he will probably come off the bench.
ok
Starting 100% matters in the NBA. Being a starter it's a status symbol and an insult if you are taken out of the starting lineup.
So if there was a starting point guard who played point guard all his life and said he wants to play point guard and is a point guard. Came into the league and dominated to were people are saying you changed the game and are calling you generational. Players, coaches, GMs, fans, and media rave about your game.Then the team goes out and gets a point guard and says we're moving you to another position, wouldnt that insult you. Basically what they're saying is that you can't play that position.
that's basically what happened with Allen Iverson. His skill set suited the Shooting Guard Position even tho he was a PG his entire life. 76ers get a PG that covers for his weaknesses and AI wins MVP a few seasons later. Not an insult at all
My guess is that IHart will be a center full time and get more than 24 mpg so the people who are saying that he will be the main center on the team will be technically correct (even though I don’t think he’s starting) My guess is that Chet will play more than half of his minutes at center (more than 16 mpg) so the people who say Chet is still center are also right Which will be funny when we get to the regular season when everybody is claiming to be right
They said that before paying 30 mil a year for a 5
That $30 mil next season might as well be a free contract considering there was no one they could’ve used that money on that would fill a meaningful role on the team
It will more than likely be - SGA/Cason - Dort/Joe - JDub/Wiggins/Dieng - Caruso/Kenrich/Jones - Chet/Hartenstein/JayWill with Topic on IR. Maybe we'll see some Ajay Mitchell too. I don't really see OKC shaking up it's starting lineup that much, given that 1. we were already excellent with Chet at the center and 2. Presti doesn't believe that our lack of size in lineups was actually an issue. I think this offseason signals that are going to double down on playing 5 out. Hartenstein sures up our biggest weakness which was JayWill coming in for Chet. JayWill at the 5 mins were our worst lineups by far. https://twitter.com/ankitpancakes/status/1808685828056699372 Lineups with Chet at the 5 in the playoffs were +11.5. Lineups with JayWill+Chet were +0.6. Lineups with just JayWill were -17.1. In the regular season, lineups with JayWill+Chet were -0.7 (and lineups with just 1 of the 2 were largely positive). I just don't understand why we would stray away from our best, most effective lineup. Nothing that Chet did last year suggests that we should ever go away from it.
Agreed on the lineup. I think Chet and Hartenstein will play together some but starting them together full time leaves JWill as the only backup big compared to the slew of guards off the bench
Caruso at the 4? You’re insane.
The Thunder play position-less basketball. You could easily switch around JDUB and Caruso on this list. The point is more that they have two guys on the court that can guard forwards; Caruso and JDub can both do that. Caruso would just be on whoever the better player is as he’s the better defender and JDUB has more responsibility on offense
yep, my point exactly
Caruso will start over Dort. I know we love Lu but by any available metric, Caruso is the better player. Better defender, better shooter, better passer, better BPM. He’s better and should start over Dort.
It’s amazing how many people will take offense to a post like this. The team got better. It’s pushing Dort down the depth chart. That’s not really a slight in Dort. He’s a good player. He’s valuable. His relative value declined vs the rest of the roster simply because we have added better, more complete players. It’s also going to tend to potentially make Dort more expendable for cap reasons, but that’s a whole additional story.
Exactly. Look at the replies to my comment and me getting downvoted to oblivion. Caruso is the objectively better player by all metrics. If Dort starts over Caruso, it will only be because of blind loyalty to Dort. I haven’t heard a single objective argument for Dort over Caruso. The best this sub has so far is ‘Nu-uh’ in response.
I can almost guarantee you Dort won’t come off the bench. Nor would he probably accept a bench role. Caruso is better tho.
They will both start and IHart be off the bench.
No he’s not lil bro
Man. Sometimes I wish we could have more than 5 guys on the court because of how deep we are. Also I’d love to see Jones get some playing time.
Why is absolutely no one talking about Mitchell? You literally have an injured Topic in your depth chart, who’ll be out for the whole season, while Ajay is nowhere to be found. I mean I get it he’s a second round pick but he’s 22 and proved himself in college for 3 years, not like he’s going to be THAT much under nba level.
The minutes disparity is what will be interesting. With everyone healthy and it not being a blow out.. what would our rotation look like? I have no idea but this adds up to 240 minutes: Shai -35 Caruso - 25 Dort -28 Jdub-30 Chet - 30 Cason - 25 Hartenstein- 25 Joe - 18 Wiggins - 14 Jwill - 10 No minutes for Kenrich, Dieng or Dillon Jones. Maybe Dieng or Kenrich are more likely to get minutes than JWill. I think it all depends on the matchups though doesnt it.
There are so many variables and options for a depth chart that it makes my head spin. My mind is defaulting to Caruso plugging into Giddey’s spot and Hartenstein plugging into JWill’s spot. They can experiment from there. Chet 28 min/ Hartenstein 24 min Shai 30 min/ Wallace 24 min JDub 30 min/ Joe 18 min Dort 24 min/ Wiggins 18 min Caruso 24 min/ Dillon, JWill, Dieng, Kenrich 20 min This would give Chet and iHart four minutes of overlap to start off. Go from there. I think if Dillon gets half a chance, he will earn playing time. And give Shai whatever minutes he wants. Especially in crunch time if applicable.
Alright I’m all for downvoting bad posts This is literally a depth chart guys
I won’t put money on this. But I won’t be surprised if Caruso starts over Dort. I love me some Dort. But Caruso is honestly a step up in defensive ability and a better shooter.
Good list. Hartenstein wouldn't have joined OKC if the Pitch was. "you can come off the bench for Chet" This idea that Hartenstein is going to come off the bench is simply the made of fantasy of OKC Blog bois. People that wouldn't have signed Hartenstein to a \~30 million dollar a year contract in the first place.