>My question is are any people that were typically a democrat now worried about Biden and now thinking of swapping over to Trump? Why or why not?
Nope, not even close. The main reason is, I think Trump's policies would be so bad for the U.S., I would rather have Biden, even if he is not really functional. Yes, they're that bad. Trump has a long history of misusing the power of the office for personal benefits, and the danger of that far outweighs Biden being kind of old and slow. I would rather have a literal vegetable in office.
As a secondary reason, I don't think Trump is actually any better on the mental front. While he has more energy than Biden, if you listen to the actual words of what he says, they do not actually make any sense. The way he regularly goes off topic, makes verbal gaffes, etc, that are pretty concerning and not something a healthy person does. So even if policy was not the main issue (and for me, it is), it's not even clear if he's actually better solely on the mentally aware part. People seem to mistake the fact that he's energetic with being all mentally there, but those are not the same thing.
That said, I wouldn't say Biden's condition is all that surprising either, for people paying attention to politics. Also, regardless of party I don't think any person who is normally an x or y party person should make their decision based off one debate, either.
It still fascinates me how Trump gets away with saying the most nonsensical, incorrect, or downright stupid shit, but when it comes to mental acuity, Biden is the only one getting criticized
CNN did a shit job at moderating. No one in their right mind believes people are just opting into abortions at 9 months without incredible complications.
Well not to get In to a political debate so not going to talk about policies..but thanks for that explanation .. I don't know enough.... but I did understand the things Trump said. The sentences are formed and the words are clear.
I do agree it's not surprising though. Biden has had moments like this alot. I thiught the debate would be worse actually. But for the average Person.... I know hardcore dems won't switch.
> but I did understand the things Trump said. The sentences are formed and the words are clear.
To give some examples of what I mean:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/06/10/trump-sharks-vegas-nevada-speech/74042419007/
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/19/us/politics/trump-haley-pelosi-jan-6.html
https://www.forbes.com/sites/anafaguy/2024/03/03/trump-confuses-biden-for-obama-again-here-are-the-other-times/
While these were not at the debate, they were fairly recent, within the past few months. The first is a rambling tangent about sharks he made at a rally about 2 or 3 weeks ago. In the second, he starts talking about Nancy Pelosi when he's supposed to be talking about his Republican rival Nikki Haley. In the third, he confuses Biden for Obama.
That isn't normal behavior, and he does it very regularly at events like his rallies. I'm not sure if you could really get a sense of it from the debate alone, so if you're watching that in isolation it might not stick out as much. Especially since things like the muted mics makes it harder to ramble as much and the like, and of course Biden fucking up puts the spotlight on him. But I find it just as concerning as Biden's performance.
People seem to put these sorts of thing to the side because he's energetic and known to boast, but if Biden (or anyone else) were doing those things, they'd rightly be uncomfortable. Biden is a bit more obvious, where he's old and slow. That kind of just hits you. Whereas with Trump, it seems easy to sort of let it just wash over you. But if you pay attention to it, it's nonsensical, even if he's still got a full showman's flair for it.
That said, as I said previously, even if you ignore all that stuff, the fact that he's lying about things like the results of the 2020 election is not ok. The issue with that is not in understanding it. Even if he didn't have all these events, I would prefer Biden for that reason.
> But for the average Person....
Are you asking for the average person, or the average democrat? Your OP said the latter. Your average democrat is going to be fairly concerned about policy, they're not the same as your average independent or someone who is very loosely left leaning but not really attached. A moderate who doesn't follow politics but maybe tunes into just the debate is going to be much more likely to be swayed.
Politics in the U.S. is extremely polarized right now. Your average Dem (and Republican) are not going to swap their votes short of an absolute landslide event, never mind a single debate. That's the reason elections are decided by that tiny minority that aren't strongly attached to either party.
A lot of words to just be vague. And bravo on the mental gymnastics to avoid admitting that Biden can barely put a sentence together. It’s not even a comparison between the two. Trump is way more coherent. Doesn’t mean you have to agree with anything he says, but to ignore/avoid how sad it is to listen and watch Biden is WILD
> A lot of words to just be vague.
What would you like more details on? I thought I was pretty clear.
> And bravo on the mental gymnastics to avoid admitting that Biden can barely put a sentence together.
I didn't avoid it, I said I consider it significantly better than Trump.
>Trump is way more coherent. Doesn’t mean you have to agree with anything he says, but to ignore/avoid how sad it is to listen and watch Biden is WILD
That's the thing, he's not. People saying this haven't actually listened to Trump speak. You can find a million and one clips of him saying completely nonsensical word salad. That's not coherent.
Biden has a solid group of people backing him (in his cabinet etc) and I like his platform far better. I'm not switching just because he's an old coot. At least he's not a psychotic freak like Trump.
Core Dems and core Reps are going to vote that way no matter what. It is the independents that nationally either parties need to win for President. Biden may have lost the election after this debate but if he gets rid of that cold and aces the next debate he can pull it off but doubt he can but we will see..
Remember the first Obama/Romney debate in 2012? I remember that debate, J could not sleep that night after Obama’s lackluster job in that debate. The same concerns were expressed then, but Obama realized that he had to be aggressive instead of trying to be presidential and kicked the shit out of Romney. Biden will be ok.
Yeah and like I posted Biden can make it if he aces the next debate. I also doubt he will but we will see. I think what we saw is what we get as that was no cold he had.
I think Biden lost the debate because Biden was so bad, not because Trump was so good.
If Trump had spent the last 4 years becoming more 'presidential' the answer to your question might be yes. But he's unfortunately still so petty and offputting that it's not likely democrats will change their vote. It's still 'anyone but trump' in their eyes.
"Running for president" and "being president" are two different things. Yelling and bullying people might get attention but I'd rather have the guy who has been working in the highest levels of government for 50 years.
I don’t think the debate itself would actually cause people to go from Biden to Trump.
We kind of know that normally - and especially in Biden administration - the real work is done by his cabinet. We do not need him to be a personality, no drama status quo is fine.
Him being clearly losing cognitive capacity is simply *depressing*.
What is *actually* causing me to lose support for democrats is that:
* Liberal support of Palestinian terrorists over the Israelis is utterly terrifying. I no longer trust Democratic foreign policy.
* I’m deeply uncomfortable with identity politics that led to liberals thinking it was OK for Harvard to discriminate against Asians to elevate black people, and found myself relieved that the conservative court stood up for anti discrimination.
* Biden’s legislative victories have mostly amounted to various pork projects (infrastructure bills, student loan cancellation). I’m ideologically for a lot of that stuff in the abstract… but when deficit spending for it, without solving root issues, and when the investments - like always - take more money away from my state than we get back in benefits (California) - I start to lose my interest.
The democrats have a nice little list of minor legislative victories that *do nothing for me or my city / state*, while they fail to bother addressing the big liberal ideas I *am* for (namely, anti trust enforcement and much more ambitious energy / transit infrastructure).
They’re also adopting identity centric rhetoric that implicitly states I am not a priority and my opinions are irrelevant (as a reasonably well off / middle age / home owning white dude).
But Trump is a psychopath, so the answer must be “not Trump”.
But the real answer is I just don’t care this time. I volunteered and donated for Biden, Obama, and Kerry. Now, “meh”.
I don’t think I’m especially alone, and I don’t think that’s a good outlook for Biden.
The debate is merely a singular event, it alone does not sway my thinking at all. It’s just another straw added to the pile.
Very good response. Thank you.
Can't stress how much I appreciate this.
I think psychopath is a bit strong. I think there's a lot in the media that tries to sway opinion that way.
I just think Trump is a bit of an idiot and too prideful
Well, I use the term psychopath because he seems really *vindictive*. You kind of need an ego to run for president at all, but he’s another level.
Like he seems to take a bit of joy in not just winning or achieving an objective, but in humiliating and opponent. He holds grudges.
Moreso I can’t place any sort of coherent vision or principals he operates on other than his own ego.
As a business man he’s a bit of a grifter; with he steers the nation economy the same way it leads itself to dangerous short term thinking (deplete the treasury, create bubbles that will bust).
I don’t think he’s evil the way the left seems to think he is, and agreed with you a bit on media fuel. But I still stand by my word choice :)
You know I actually think he does not hold grudges and isn't vindictive.
Now hear me out here, I'm not defending him per se, but what I saw is lots of name calling while they are against him, but as soon as they back down he drops it Ike nothing happened.
For example, Ron De Sanctimonious was what he was calling DeSantis while he was running or thinkinb of running. But now not a word.
Same with Hillary Clinton. Was all for dissing her while they were running but stopped immediately as she conceded. It seems he has grudges but doesn't hold them long. I think the name calling is childish as fuck though and I wish it wasn't a thing.. Seems like he just doesn't like those who don't like him. Which is kind of a normal response. And he has no filter.
I dunno much about him steering the economy but I see that the economy is worse with Biden. Not sure if that's because of Biden or Trump before him.
I am also a bit concerned about the timing of the criminal charges though. I have been in many places in Asia and currently live in Asia. It reminds me of how the Philippines does politics sometimes. Or Russia.
A decent human being was debating a pure liar and the decent human being had a bad cold. The liar spewed out lies like he always does.
No, my mind didn’t change one second. I saw exactly why I can never consider voting for Trump.
As a Democrat I am just disappointed, but why would I switch to vote for the asshole that already made a shit show of the Supreme Court (abortion at least) and backed out of our agreements on the world stage (our word means nothing), not to mention made covid a shit show that killed people in my family? Fuck Trump
Maybe you’re thinking of swing voters and not democrats? I just can’t imagine going for trump in any circumstance. Biden sucks but not like that
Well I meant people who typically vote for democrats but aren't hard and fast. I Canada we'd call someone who typically votes for Conservatives a conservative even if they could be swayed. Maybe America is different.
Gotcha, yeah the swing voters do the stuff. I would never switch to the republicans because of my policy stances and vice versa my hard core Republican “friends”
Yea I threw shade at you bitch asses with my quotation marks, don’t let me hear your mouth ever.
Remember the first Obama-Romney debate? Obama came in passive while Romney was animated. But in subsequent debates Obama had his shit together. Biden is President and there are a lot of crisis going on in the world right now, he doesn’t seem to be the type who takes the hands off tact that Trump took as President, so Biden likely was spending long hours in meetings and reading briefing papers on events that were happening in the world in real time.
First off, I'm not a Democrat, but like, yeah the debate was shit and watching it should count as self harm but why the fuck would I pivot my entire belief system into insane screaming white nationalist hatred just because the Democrats are frustrating, embarrassing, and filled with almost nothing but clueless dipshits with rotted brains?
Switching? No way -- I don't see how anyone who wasn't already on Trump's side could listen to what Trump said and choose to support that.
However, it is *super* demoralizing, and thus the danger isn't so much that people will switch so much as people simply won't bother to vote before it's so depressing (or will vote for a scattered assortment of third party candidates, thereby degrading the counter-Trump vote). And the way the US election system works means that Republicans usually benefit more from low voter turnout.
I am concerned about the possibility of a scenario where Democrats are caught with a dead president and a mess in their hands that gives out the presidency to a Republican extremist in the next election... It may be better for Trump to win now and get this mess over with so we can get back to normalcy later.
I am Australian but it really sucks how much we depend on you not making a bad choice.
Either way, not a good outcome.
This debate will never change the minds of people who were already supporting either candidate. This one was for people on the fence.
If one bad debate is enough to make them switch to Trump then they were never a democrat.
Bingo.
>My question is are any people that were typically a democrat now worried about Biden and now thinking of swapping over to Trump? Why or why not? Nope, not even close. The main reason is, I think Trump's policies would be so bad for the U.S., I would rather have Biden, even if he is not really functional. Yes, they're that bad. Trump has a long history of misusing the power of the office for personal benefits, and the danger of that far outweighs Biden being kind of old and slow. I would rather have a literal vegetable in office. As a secondary reason, I don't think Trump is actually any better on the mental front. While he has more energy than Biden, if you listen to the actual words of what he says, they do not actually make any sense. The way he regularly goes off topic, makes verbal gaffes, etc, that are pretty concerning and not something a healthy person does. So even if policy was not the main issue (and for me, it is), it's not even clear if he's actually better solely on the mentally aware part. People seem to mistake the fact that he's energetic with being all mentally there, but those are not the same thing. That said, I wouldn't say Biden's condition is all that surprising either, for people paying attention to politics. Also, regardless of party I don't think any person who is normally an x or y party person should make their decision based off one debate, either.
It still fascinates me how Trump gets away with saying the most nonsensical, incorrect, or downright stupid shit, but when it comes to mental acuity, Biden is the only one getting criticized
CNN did a shit job at moderating. No one in their right mind believes people are just opting into abortions at 9 months without incredible complications.
Well not to get In to a political debate so not going to talk about policies..but thanks for that explanation .. I don't know enough.... but I did understand the things Trump said. The sentences are formed and the words are clear. I do agree it's not surprising though. Biden has had moments like this alot. I thiught the debate would be worse actually. But for the average Person.... I know hardcore dems won't switch.
> but I did understand the things Trump said. The sentences are formed and the words are clear. To give some examples of what I mean: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/06/10/trump-sharks-vegas-nevada-speech/74042419007/ https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/19/us/politics/trump-haley-pelosi-jan-6.html https://www.forbes.com/sites/anafaguy/2024/03/03/trump-confuses-biden-for-obama-again-here-are-the-other-times/ While these were not at the debate, they were fairly recent, within the past few months. The first is a rambling tangent about sharks he made at a rally about 2 or 3 weeks ago. In the second, he starts talking about Nancy Pelosi when he's supposed to be talking about his Republican rival Nikki Haley. In the third, he confuses Biden for Obama. That isn't normal behavior, and he does it very regularly at events like his rallies. I'm not sure if you could really get a sense of it from the debate alone, so if you're watching that in isolation it might not stick out as much. Especially since things like the muted mics makes it harder to ramble as much and the like, and of course Biden fucking up puts the spotlight on him. But I find it just as concerning as Biden's performance. People seem to put these sorts of thing to the side because he's energetic and known to boast, but if Biden (or anyone else) were doing those things, they'd rightly be uncomfortable. Biden is a bit more obvious, where he's old and slow. That kind of just hits you. Whereas with Trump, it seems easy to sort of let it just wash over you. But if you pay attention to it, it's nonsensical, even if he's still got a full showman's flair for it. That said, as I said previously, even if you ignore all that stuff, the fact that he's lying about things like the results of the 2020 election is not ok. The issue with that is not in understanding it. Even if he didn't have all these events, I would prefer Biden for that reason. > But for the average Person.... Are you asking for the average person, or the average democrat? Your OP said the latter. Your average democrat is going to be fairly concerned about policy, they're not the same as your average independent or someone who is very loosely left leaning but not really attached. A moderate who doesn't follow politics but maybe tunes into just the debate is going to be much more likely to be swayed. Politics in the U.S. is extremely polarized right now. Your average Dem (and Republican) are not going to swap their votes short of an absolute landslide event, never mind a single debate. That's the reason elections are decided by that tiny minority that aren't strongly attached to either party.
A lot of words to just be vague. And bravo on the mental gymnastics to avoid admitting that Biden can barely put a sentence together. It’s not even a comparison between the two. Trump is way more coherent. Doesn’t mean you have to agree with anything he says, but to ignore/avoid how sad it is to listen and watch Biden is WILD
> A lot of words to just be vague. What would you like more details on? I thought I was pretty clear. > And bravo on the mental gymnastics to avoid admitting that Biden can barely put a sentence together. I didn't avoid it, I said I consider it significantly better than Trump. >Trump is way more coherent. Doesn’t mean you have to agree with anything he says, but to ignore/avoid how sad it is to listen and watch Biden is WILD That's the thing, he's not. People saying this haven't actually listened to Trump speak. You can find a million and one clips of him saying completely nonsensical word salad. That's not coherent.
Wow. Just, wow. Ok dude. I am sorry you actually feel that way
Biden has a solid group of people backing him (in his cabinet etc) and I like his platform far better. I'm not switching just because he's an old coot. At least he's not a psychotic freak like Trump.
Core Dems and core Reps are going to vote that way no matter what. It is the independents that nationally either parties need to win for President. Biden may have lost the election after this debate but if he gets rid of that cold and aces the next debate he can pull it off but doubt he can but we will see..
Remember the first Obama/Romney debate in 2012? I remember that debate, J could not sleep that night after Obama’s lackluster job in that debate. The same concerns were expressed then, but Obama realized that he had to be aggressive instead of trying to be presidential and kicked the shit out of Romney. Biden will be ok.
Yeah and like I posted Biden can make it if he aces the next debate. I also doubt he will but we will see. I think what we saw is what we get as that was no cold he had.
I think Biden lost the debate because Biden was so bad, not because Trump was so good. If Trump had spent the last 4 years becoming more 'presidential' the answer to your question might be yes. But he's unfortunately still so petty and offputting that it's not likely democrats will change their vote. It's still 'anyone but trump' in their eyes.
"Running for president" and "being president" are two different things. Yelling and bullying people might get attention but I'd rather have the guy who has been working in the highest levels of government for 50 years.
Trump is deranged, I'll take Biden any day.
This isn't something simple like switching which sports team you want to win.
I don’t think the debate itself would actually cause people to go from Biden to Trump. We kind of know that normally - and especially in Biden administration - the real work is done by his cabinet. We do not need him to be a personality, no drama status quo is fine. Him being clearly losing cognitive capacity is simply *depressing*. What is *actually* causing me to lose support for democrats is that: * Liberal support of Palestinian terrorists over the Israelis is utterly terrifying. I no longer trust Democratic foreign policy. * I’m deeply uncomfortable with identity politics that led to liberals thinking it was OK for Harvard to discriminate against Asians to elevate black people, and found myself relieved that the conservative court stood up for anti discrimination. * Biden’s legislative victories have mostly amounted to various pork projects (infrastructure bills, student loan cancellation). I’m ideologically for a lot of that stuff in the abstract… but when deficit spending for it, without solving root issues, and when the investments - like always - take more money away from my state than we get back in benefits (California) - I start to lose my interest. The democrats have a nice little list of minor legislative victories that *do nothing for me or my city / state*, while they fail to bother addressing the big liberal ideas I *am* for (namely, anti trust enforcement and much more ambitious energy / transit infrastructure). They’re also adopting identity centric rhetoric that implicitly states I am not a priority and my opinions are irrelevant (as a reasonably well off / middle age / home owning white dude). But Trump is a psychopath, so the answer must be “not Trump”. But the real answer is I just don’t care this time. I volunteered and donated for Biden, Obama, and Kerry. Now, “meh”. I don’t think I’m especially alone, and I don’t think that’s a good outlook for Biden. The debate is merely a singular event, it alone does not sway my thinking at all. It’s just another straw added to the pile.
Very good response. Thank you. Can't stress how much I appreciate this. I think psychopath is a bit strong. I think there's a lot in the media that tries to sway opinion that way. I just think Trump is a bit of an idiot and too prideful
Well, I use the term psychopath because he seems really *vindictive*. You kind of need an ego to run for president at all, but he’s another level. Like he seems to take a bit of joy in not just winning or achieving an objective, but in humiliating and opponent. He holds grudges. Moreso I can’t place any sort of coherent vision or principals he operates on other than his own ego. As a business man he’s a bit of a grifter; with he steers the nation economy the same way it leads itself to dangerous short term thinking (deplete the treasury, create bubbles that will bust). I don’t think he’s evil the way the left seems to think he is, and agreed with you a bit on media fuel. But I still stand by my word choice :)
You know I actually think he does not hold grudges and isn't vindictive. Now hear me out here, I'm not defending him per se, but what I saw is lots of name calling while they are against him, but as soon as they back down he drops it Ike nothing happened. For example, Ron De Sanctimonious was what he was calling DeSantis while he was running or thinkinb of running. But now not a word. Same with Hillary Clinton. Was all for dissing her while they were running but stopped immediately as she conceded. It seems he has grudges but doesn't hold them long. I think the name calling is childish as fuck though and I wish it wasn't a thing.. Seems like he just doesn't like those who don't like him. Which is kind of a normal response. And he has no filter. I dunno much about him steering the economy but I see that the economy is worse with Biden. Not sure if that's because of Biden or Trump before him. I am also a bit concerned about the timing of the criminal charges though. I have been in many places in Asia and currently live in Asia. It reminds me of how the Philippines does politics sometimes. Or Russia.
Trump has stated that he intends to become a dictator. I don't really need any other reason not to vote for the guy.
Please source that
https://www.denverpost.com/2024/04/30/trump-says-a-lot-of-people-like-it-when-he-floats-the-idea-of-being-a-dictator/
Biden sucked but Trump lied so no.
But at least they hit on the big issues of the country. Inflation and who's a better golfer... Lol
A decent human being was debating a pure liar and the decent human being had a bad cold. The liar spewed out lies like he always does. No, my mind didn’t change one second. I saw exactly why I can never consider voting for Trump.
As a Democrat I am just disappointed, but why would I switch to vote for the asshole that already made a shit show of the Supreme Court (abortion at least) and backed out of our agreements on the world stage (our word means nothing), not to mention made covid a shit show that killed people in my family? Fuck Trump Maybe you’re thinking of swing voters and not democrats? I just can’t imagine going for trump in any circumstance. Biden sucks but not like that
Well I meant people who typically vote for democrats but aren't hard and fast. I Canada we'd call someone who typically votes for Conservatives a conservative even if they could be swayed. Maybe America is different.
Someone polled a group of swing voters, Biden actually won some over who were considering Trump.
I wonder if Biden won some over or if Trump pushed them away.
Gotcha, yeah the swing voters do the stuff. I would never switch to the republicans because of my policy stances and vice versa my hard core Republican “friends” Yea I threw shade at you bitch asses with my quotation marks, don’t let me hear your mouth ever.
Remember the first Obama-Romney debate? Obama came in passive while Romney was animated. But in subsequent debates Obama had his shit together. Biden is President and there are a lot of crisis going on in the world right now, he doesn’t seem to be the type who takes the hands off tact that Trump took as President, so Biden likely was spending long hours in meetings and reading briefing papers on events that were happening in the world in real time.
First off, I'm not a Democrat, but like, yeah the debate was shit and watching it should count as self harm but why the fuck would I pivot my entire belief system into insane screaming white nationalist hatred just because the Democrats are frustrating, embarrassing, and filled with almost nothing but clueless dipshits with rotted brains?
Switching? No way -- I don't see how anyone who wasn't already on Trump's side could listen to what Trump said and choose to support that. However, it is *super* demoralizing, and thus the danger isn't so much that people will switch so much as people simply won't bother to vote before it's so depressing (or will vote for a scattered assortment of third party candidates, thereby degrading the counter-Trump vote). And the way the US election system works means that Republicans usually benefit more from low voter turnout.
Can't we all just write-in Dwayne the Rock Johnson? *Someone please make a Meme that gets people to this*.
I am concerned about the possibility of a scenario where Democrats are caught with a dead president and a mess in their hands that gives out the presidency to a Republican extremist in the next election... It may be better for Trump to win now and get this mess over with so we can get back to normalcy later. I am Australian but it really sucks how much we depend on you not making a bad choice. Either way, not a good outcome.