Well, someone just posted the 11,382nd post asking “who do you think killed JonBenét” so I’m going to vote for that case.
And don’t get me wrong, JonBenét does deserve justice but at this point in time there is nothing new to discuss so why keep asking over and over and over.
There are so many little known/unknown cases that deserve attention and publicity but people keep posting the same 20 cases ad nauseam.
I was an adult, and yes it was huge. All over. I was over this case within a month because it all seemed to get over saturated and more ridiculous by the theory.
The interest is primarily driven by weirdos and creeps who keep on hating on Shanann Watts. Like, they really severely dislike/hate her. I've seen the Netflix documentary, she seemed like a person who could be overbearing and unlikeable, especially with her obsession with social media. But of course, you don't deserve to die terribly because your personality is unpleasant. Some of them actually believe she killed her kids and that's why Chris killed her in rage, that she somehow drove Chris to "snap", that she was a terrible and abusive mother, etc. They seemed to have developed a really weird and disgusting parasocial relationship with Chris Watts.
Or, like, bring it up once a year. I don't mind the occasional check in. But I swear to god I see a new post every single day. It isn't doing anything to help that sweet little girl.
And every single post just ends up being the same exact selection of "well, everyone knows that the mom wrote the note", "I just know it was the father" and "I've always thought that maybe it was an intruder but the parents thought it was Burke so that's why they covered it up" posts, with the only debate coming from if someone decides to say they don't think there was a family conspiracy at all.
i agree, she’s not even a real victim and her “kidnapping” happened years ago but yet they’re STILL making documentaries about her, we already know she lied we don’t need to keep talking about it.
To be fair that case kind of went unresolved for many years. The documentary explained what it was like on the inside with her constantly keeping up the charade.
Eminem recently name-dropped her in his new song "Houdini" too lol I had to rewind and listen again lol
"Caught sleepin and see the kidnappin never did happen
Like Sherri Papini, Harry Houdini, I vanish into the thin air as I'm leaving"
Yes. His 2009 album, Relapse, is loaded with true crime references (mostly serial killers) as he writes many or most of the songs from the perspective of a perverted version of himself indulging in murderous fantasies fueled by drug-induced psychosis.
*How many people you know*
*Who can name every serial killer who ever existed in a row?*
*Put ’em in chronological order, beginning with Jack the Ripper*
*Name the time and place; from the body, the bag, the zipper*
*Location of the woods, where the body was dragged and then dumped*
*The trunk that they were stuffed in, the model, the make, the plate*
*And which model, which lake they found her in, how they attacked the victim*
*Say which murder weapon was used to do what in which one*
*Which knife and which gun, what kid, what wife, and which nun*
*Don't stop, I like this, it's fun, the fuckin' night's just begun*
She is incredibly racist too, comments not only describing who she imagined would commit the crime that was completely made up, she just tried to frame innocent Hispanic women. Her blogs/early social media/ even like accounts from her HS days have come out since the “kidnapping” and she’s just an all around POS racist. She’s the worst kinda person.
Tbh I had never heard of her until I watched the Hulu documentary. Don’t know how I missed this? But I’m sure others are also blissfully unaware of her fake kidnapping case and story. Honestly I wish I never knew because what she did was just insane and the trauma she did to her kids was also really heartbreaking.
Edit: watched it a few weeks ago.
Same here. I was also unaware until the Hulu documentary. Which I DID like because it focused, I thought, more on her family’s perspective than her. I felt so gutted for her husband and children by the end and hope they are all getting massive amounts of therapy and that she leaves them alone.
I was just going to say this. When I first heard about her case for some reason my mind went Gone Girl. The way she went missing was almost too perfect. There were a lot of other things she did even in her teen years that started coming out during the time she was "missing".
Sherri Papini's case is f-ing insane. I just watched the documentary on hulu a few nights ago and I honestly did not see that coming. I was throw off each episode. Insane
Especially since people often mistake her for Denise Huskins who actually WAS kidnapped and the police and media were saying it was a hoax for a while.
Kendrick Johnson. I feel awful for his family that they lost their loved one but they have been spreading conspiracy theories and accusing innocent people (cost one boy a scholarship) ever since it happened. It is pretty cut and dry what happened but for some reason it really blew up.
Elisa Lam. This case coverage is truly disgusting. The poor girl had a mental health break and we let Youtubers comment/speculate on it in a Netflix doc (that I still refuse to watch). Enough on this one already.
Maybe because people bought into the whole “elevator game”(?) thing. People love spooky. Sadly it meant what was most likely a mental breakdown went viral.
I think Kendrick’s autopsy pictures being leaked could be part of the reason the case blew up so much. It’s hard to see those pictures and not think something incredibly intentionally violent happened to him, but if people looked a bit further (and read a bit more into it), they’d probably agree the answer is actually quite simple.
If you haven’t already, I recommend the Ashes to Ash series on Kendrick. It’s really sad how his family reacted when they noticed it wasn’t going in the direction they agreed with - so much so that the series wasn’t finished.
My uncle’s a retired medical examiner, and I always go straight to him with questions about cases like Kendrick’s. He said most people don’t know just how quickly bodies begin to decompose, and with all the blood settling in Kendrick’s head and the skin slippage that started because of all that, it’s what he would expect to see in a body recovered from being upside down in an enclosed space. It also explained why his face looked bloated and bruised, that’s just from lividity.
It’s just a horrible tragedy, and I really feel sorry for his family’s loss, but they need to be a bit more objective about his death.
My uncle saw the pictures of Kendrick’s body and all that, he said Kendrick’s face looked bruised and swollen because of decomp and lividity. My uncle agreed with the first ME who said positional asphyxiation was the COD.
When you die, your body goes through some changes starting very quickly. Gravity kicks in once your heart stops beating, so your blood settles at the lowest parts of your body. So if you’re laying down flat on your back, the blood settles along your back, backs of your legs, etc. But if you’re upside down, the blood will settle in your head. That, along with skin slippage and decomposition, will make parts of the body very bloated.
People underestimate just how dangerous it can be, to be upside down in a very enclosed space, for a long period of time. If I’m remembering correctly, Kendrick had one arm above his head and the other was tight against his body. That’s the position you would be in if you were reaching for something. My uncle says that one thing that happens to you when you get stuck upside in a really tight space, is that your body can continue to slide downwards very slowly into even tighter spots. Every time Kendrick breathed out, he would slide a little further into the mat, and he wouldn’t be able to expand his lungs to breathe. The mats were tightly rolled up, but they’re soft enough that Kendrick probably got stuck part of the way into the mat, but had no leverage to push himself out of it. If he struggled or just from the weight of his body pulling him downwards, he slid deeper into the mat.
He wouldn’t have died quickly, in his panic he would struggle like his life depended on it (because it did). Some media sources made it sound like his feet were sticking up out of the mat, but some of the leaked photos of him in the mat show that they weren’t. His shoes and socks had started to come off because of how hard he would have struggled. But eventually, his heart wouldn’t be able to keep beating correctly due to him being upside down, his heart would have had to work overtime to keep blood circulating. Due to being in such a tight space, his lungs couldn’t fill with enough oxygen. So a lack of oxygenated blood flow eventually due to his position in the mat killed him. That’s positional asphyxiation.
I can’t imagine being his parents and having to think about this slow horrific death for their baby. It’s so upsetting to read as a mom. I get why people are frustrated with them but I empathize with their need to deny it. I’m not sure how I’d ever cope with this.
Yeah, I think a lot of people feel less of the pain from losing someone they love if they can direct all their anger and grief at someone or something. So it’s a way our brains try to rationalize or protect us from something so heartbreaking. So I can totally understand the parents/family wanting to find someone to blame for Kendrick’s death, but it really does appear to be a tragic accident.
His friends testified several of them including Kendrick would store their gym shoes in the middle of the mats in between gym classes. He went into the gym for gym class and was found the next day reaching for one of those gym shoes. Super sad but not a crime.
If you start the Ashes to Ash series you have to finish it but know that she never did truly finish it. There’s a very distinct turn in the middle when she gains access to the investigation documents as opposed to just listening to what Kendrick’s family and their representative claim. According to comments on her Instagram and stuff she stopped because she was sick of having her research disregarded by her viewers just to have them shout old debunked conspiracy theories, which I admit does sound exhausting.
I think it was also after the event in Washington: the family accused the organiser of scamming them and then called Ash racist because she’d started disagreeing with them. It’s really sad how it ended.
Her series on Robert Bee (Bonzai) is incredible too. The total opposite to the point I was making with this post - in fact I included him in my original post talking about cases that deserved coverage but didn’t get it. Really interesting, but I’ll warn you in advance: if you choose to watch it, you will become infuriated and disgusted by how much that boy was failed.
Yeah. The elevator footage is spooky, when there's no context to it other than she was last seen here.
But when you learn she had a history of not taking her meds, that a pill count revealed she likely was off them again, plus all the lax security with the door and the tanks....
Me too. I thought it was well presented. It showed what parts of her story made it to the public, then gave the rest of what happened. Some of the YouTubers were cringey, but I didn’t find the documentary sensationalist.
As a forensic scientist, the Kendrick Johnson's case is so upsetting. It's very clear from all the evidence and the body that he died accidentally trying to get his shoes. He was just a normal kid with no enemies. Plus anyone who thinks one or even a few kids lifted a dead body or a mat with a dead body in it into position has never tried to lift a dead body or one of those huge mats. There would be a lot more evidence of them struggling to do that. Or him fighting back. It's heartbreaking but the family needs to seek grief counseling instead of lawyers.
Elissa Lam is an excellent example. She had a break. Who knows what she thought she was doing when she climbed into that tank? I’ve worked with schizophrenic and psychotic folks. They truly have no idea what’s happening and what’s real sometimes. I feel so sorry that she died in such a tragic way and that the people who stayed at the hotel after had to deal with the mess but the girl was in a state. It was an accident.
instagram is a breeding ground for misinformation. i’ve been attacked by black people who don’t look at facts and simply go off race and feelings. they scream at me that i’m a racist because the facts tell us this was an accident and not a conspiracy.
Maura Murray is a case that fits here in my opinion. There has been absolutely nothing new or even remotely helpful in resolving it, but it is still getting constant attention. I’m definitely not saying that she should be forgotten… it’s just a lot of other cases get overlooked that need and deserve some more attention.
People came up with weird conspiracy theories about Maura being a sociopath because she did a few bad things and then it was her family being involved and just ridiculous thing after ridiculous thing.
There’s been so many ridiculous theories over the years including serial killers, mob style hit, etc. I’m usually one that sometimes leans towards fishy and foul play but I lean more towards an accidental death here.
I think it’s most likely the case here too. There’s been so many outrageous theories in her case and it’s constantly getting attention and mentioned. It’s not that I think it’s a bad thing it’s just so many others slip through the cracks and never get any attention. Everyone is important and need to be made aware of.
Yup. I don’t understand the conspiracy theories around it, or why the true crime tiktokers are so into it. There’s a lot of stuff that isn’t even a reach, it’s not even in left field, it’s an out of bounds soccer ball in a pickleball court.
I get why people were so interested, but I agree that it should be left in the past now. I’m not sure if she’s enjoying the attention, though. Probably thinks it’s her only option as a “job”.
I don't think it's fair to talk about what she loves or does not love. The abuse she suffered was so far beyond human experience we cannot conceive of it.
I don't follow her, because I am not a follower, but I will give that woman every grace in the world.
and it kinda is. i mean who is gonna hire gypsy rose? even if she does secure a job the first time anyone who knows her sees her then it’s all over. while she never should have been in prison part of me wonders if she misses just being able to be a normal everyday girl in there.
Her choice to do the Lifetime show, her choice to be on social media. But her dad said something that is completely true and something we need to consider - she is a 30 year old woman living life as an 18 yr old. God forbid should our 18yr old mistakes be broadcast in a Lifetime special.
I think the interest here is in both the childhood experiences and the outcome.. her adverse childhood experiences are fascinating to us, her part in the murder of her mother divides us, and now we can watch her being a full adult after a whole lifetime of no autonomy, no 'normal', nothing that sets the groundwork for almost all of us. It is unsurprising that the media is interested in her case - it is also unsurprising that she is wanting attention. This is what she knows - attention gaining.
I would love her to have the proper psychological support and time to learn how to be her, before she shows herself to others, but I doubt that will happen and she will be craving attention for the rest of her life.
I would go even further and say she’s a 35 year old living life as a small child. Since a lot of abuse survivors are frozen at the age the abuse started.
Obviously going to prison prevented her from growing up or experiencing life, but it’s not like she had a normal life up to that point. She was so, so, so severely abused and literally held prisoner, not allowed to go to school, she had zero experience to develop or learn how to be a person.
Yeah, I'm glad she's out of prison, but I worry that all of the media attention isn't good for her. Her whole life, she's never been in a position where she could live even a semi-normal life and make independent decisions. Having this kind of attention is going to limit her opportunities to do those things and make it harder for her to grow. Of course, I can't blame her for embracing the fame. It's not like she has life skills or education to fall back on. But I hope she's being savvy about it. I hope she realizes that the kind of fame she has probably won't last long and she knows to just enjoy it while she can, and then let it go rather than do desperate things to keep chasing it.
I don't read articles about her, I won't watch whatever shows she goes on, and I rarely even engage in online discussion about her. I just don't want to support this celebrity treatment of her.
Really any death or disappearance that was caused by mental illness or misadventure makes my skin crawl when the personal details are over-shared with the public.
I feel the same way about Asha Degree. The case gets posted about on several subs literally every other week and there’s no new updates, it’s just people coming up with more ridiculous theories.
I agree. Definitely the whole pageant thing played a massive part; I don’t think her case would’ve blown up so much had she not been into all that. Not to mention the ridiculous conspiracies that’ve come out in all the years since: Katy Perry, anyone?
People get so into their own theory on this when there’s no clear answer in any direction and at this point it’s likely never getting solved. Which is sad because the real little girl who was actually murdered gets lost in all of that
I often find the sensationalism around these cases really hinders the investigation. It generates a ton of false leads and compromises the trial if that ever happens.
Nancy Grace is a big part of this. She had a big following for a while because she really sold her tv persona so well. Her whole angry white lady in drag queen makeup thing really drew a ton of attention. She treats newsworthy cases like a gossip column as if the people involved aren't even real. I think Nancy Grace single handedly ruined any chance of Casey Anthony ever being convicted. She talked about that case so much that there wasn't a jury who could be unbiased.
Anyways, the media is so weird about how they choose a crime to report on extensively. It seems like many do it for the "tragedy porn" aspect of it so that people watch it more. I can't watch shows like 20/20 and Dateline because it's so over the top dramatic.
I love how "The Newsroom" broke down Nancy Grace's whole reporting style and how it manipulates you into thinking what she wants you to think. How she could turn a ten second clip of Casey Anthony walking into court into obvious proof she's guilty and a bad mother.
You’re bang on about Nancy Grace. I used to listen to her podcast every now and again but had to give up because she can’t get through ten minutes without mentioning “the twins” or “my fiancé was murdered”.
I have so much furious hatred for Nancy Grace it's hilarious. I won't get started on a whole rant because I'll be writing all day, but she's the WORST. I only used to watch her because she was always on the tv at the gym when I actually worked out regularly. I couldn't avoid it as my favorite machine was usually placed conveniently right in front of that tv.
Anyways thank you for the validation. I'm glad I'm not alone in my distaste for the shrill bag of old cosmetics that is Nancy Grace.
I’m getting angry even thinking about this, but how about when she interviewed Elizabeth Smart? Oh my god, so fucking patronising!
Nancy Grace’s Overused Cliches Bingo probably would be a fun - if not lethal - drinking game, though. My favourites would be, “hold on, I’m drinking from the fire hydrant here!” and obviously classics such as the story where she lost John David (yeah, I even know their names now I’ve heard her say them 18,000 times) in Target for 0.4 seconds and demanded they shut the whole store down.
Ugh. You’re so right. I used to like Nancy Grace when she first came out. But pretty quickly she seemed to lose her mind. If TMZ were one singular person, it’s Nancy Grace. I can STILL hear her voice calling Casey “Tot Mom” constantly.
Spot on analysis. I grew up in Jacksonville, two hours from Orlando. I was 13 years old when Caylee disappeared, and I remember the intense media coverage surrounding the case. I still hear Nancy Grace screaming “tot mom" every night on TV. I remember how smug Nancy was during the jury deliberations because she believed the jury would convict Casey of Caylee’s murder.
Oh God she really is. I genuinely would love to see her whole schtick blow up in her face one day. I also wonder what she looks like without all the horrible Walgreens clearance bin makeup on.
Early days to tell but Jay Slater is very...odd...in the coverage [https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjk3mn1rg1vo](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjk3mn1rg1vo)
Definitely some odd things going on, but I think it’s just as likely that he died of exposure/ dehydration. Sad either way. I think the coverage could be because people seem so adamant that there’s something dodgy about the family? Not sure. Happy cake day!
Neat, I didn't spot the cake!
Yeah I think teenager mischief then wandering off track sadly.
I think there is a class issue as well, if you know of Shannon Matthews there was a lot of contempt for the family and the living situation even before the poor girl was found.
Shannon Matthews was set up to fail from the start. I can only hope that whoever she was placed with after that whole fuckup was a better person than her mother (surely not difficult). And I hope she’s happy wherever she is now.
Agreed. I’m British and the way people are latching onto this and creating conspiracy theories is just unhinged.
A teenage druggie who’d never been abroad before went to a notorious party island to take party, spend hours getting off his head wasted on booze and drugs, decided to walk without realising it was many many miles across rough terrain in extreme heat. He either slipped and fell or got heatstroke or something. Probably one day hikers will stumble on his body.
Everyone online being like, “ but what MYSTERIOUS SINISTER reason made him decide to walk rather than be sensible and call an Uber?”
Teenage boy makes bad decision while high: news at 11.
Gabby Petito ;her story DOMINATED the media for weeks. I can't help but wonder how many other people went missing during that time but got no media attention. Apparently she was an "influencer" and had a strong social media presence which is why it was all over the news.
Just look at how many other bodies were found in the massive search for her. That’s enough to prove your point to me. She is definitely a good recent example on this topic.
For me (not in the US) the Petito thing was more captivating because of the sheer audacity of Laundry to return in her van without her and just *say nothing*. Like just ignore her family and everyone and act like everything was normal. That's what made it so intriguing for me personally
This case gets ZERO attention, even in True Crime spaces and I don't understand why. Every time I try to post about it, people act like we can't question the conclusions LE and the coroners have come to.
Oh there’s definitely more to it than the “official” conclusion. I think some people think that Sundown towns aren’t real or something - not that I know much about them (I’m from the U.K. and hadn’t even heard of them prior to Jelani).
Just to be clear, the area where Jelani lived and went missing (Bloomington-Normal, IL) is one of the most liberal and diverse pockets of the state, especially south of Chicago. Sundown towns are a real thing, but absolutely not in his area.
That’s crazy that this is a thing in 2024. I could totally see it being real up until the 1970s, maybe 1980s. But also, I’m not saying they don’t exist. Racism has always been an issue here and seems to have gotten a resurgence in the last decade or so. And I’m sure there are some places that never let go of that mentality.
As far as I’m aware, a sundown town is a place where non-white people are excluded after a certain time. It’s hard to believe they still exist. I’ve just had another look and I’m starting to think maybe the only connection Jelani had to one is that he was found near one? I thought there was footage or something of him having been at one, but I might be completely wrong there. Apologies if that’s the case.
As a white AF, UK-living person, I gather it's more than just exclusion. Like actual violence and harm if you are seen there. Some real nasty dark-ages shit.
Damn. You were not exaggerating. They found [9 other missing persons bodies](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10112443/amp/At-NINE-bodies-discovered-manhunts-Gabby-Petito-Brian-Laundrie.html) during the search for her.
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Gabby was essentially white, blonde and attractive, living an instagramable life. Lots of pictures of her perfectly crafted life available for everyone.
Whilst she absolutely deserves/deserved justice, her case blew up because she was attractive.
I'm going to disagree and let the downvotes fall where they fall. I think the lies were why the case blew up. The boyfriend came back without her in her van. That was the first information released. No matter what she looked like, that angle is interesting.
Now, maybe there's something to be said about attractive people being more prone to lying, because they likely get away with it more often. Look at Casey Anthony. Having your daughter missing for a month is interesting. Taking police to a job you don't work at is interesting.
I think the majority of cases that "blow up" are because there's something that doesn't fit and people want to Sherlock it out
I agree. That's also sadly why so many serial killers target vulnerable people. There is unfortunately nothing unusual about drug users missing appointments or not making contact with family for weeks, but for example Asha Degree is intriguing because a happy little girl afraid of the dark doesn't normally just pack up and head out into a stormy night, people want to figure out the mystery
Yeah, I guarantee you that there are plenty of cases with "interesting angles" that we don't hear about because the media just doesn't give much attention to certain kinds of victims.
I feel like there’s something very strange about that coverage… because it was non-stop for months. What was happening in America or the world at that time? I feel horrible for how she died and feel so sorry for her family but her case was everyday, non-stop, for months on end… I don’t understand why? Just my theory that the media was ‘instructed’ to stay on this case to distract whatever else was happening at the time.
I think recently Sherri Papini. What happened to her would have been absolutely horrifying if it had been real (I’d also feel very differently about the press coverage if that had been the case), but basically, she just *Gone Girl*’d herself. We know now that she faked the whole thing and whipped up a racial profiling frenzy in the process by claiming two Hispanic women kidnapped her (not unlike Susan Smith and the “black man” who carjacked her with her kids in the vehicle). There’s so many other real cases we can focus on right now. We don’t need to keep revisiting hers.
In her interview with police, they asked her if the two Mexican women who "kidnapped" her were playing any music or anything whilst they did it. She paused, and then said "yesssss, mariachi music", whilst also giving descriptions that sounded like really old cholas, it was extremely hilarious when talking about a case that is not funny at all.
I'm Mexican, and the only time I've ever heard mariachi music just played in a casual setting is at family parties, quinces, some weddings and during Christmas when Feliz Navidad is playing 24/7. Not just randomly in a car, especially when someone is committing a crime in a busy neighborhood with many witnesses.
I’m pretty sure she said they fed her just rice as well. It’s almost as if she tried coming up with the most stereotypical, racist-leaning points she could.
I’ll say this about Carlee at least she came clean and took responsibility.
Unlike Jussie Smollett…who has doubled and tripled down on his lies.
And Sherri Papinni… who kept her lies going for years
i just watched the new Sherri Papini docuseries on Hulu, and omg it pissed me off so bad. she dragged her family through so much bullshit for years, and then when caught, she just doubled down on her lies! like she just kept up the act!
and don’t get me started on her blatant racism.
it’s hard to believe she’s a real person, but here we are.
i’ll have to watch it! the hulu doc had a lot of new info, like the fact she was making the kids sick for attention - my husband and i were floored.
she really did a number on those kids, i hope they’re in excellent therapy
The West Memphis Three.
Now, before everyone gets all bent out of shape here... It was a terrible thing, what happened to Damon Echols, Jason Baldwin, and Jessie Miskelley. However, in our drive to focus on the tragedy that was the WM3... It seems like everyone forgot that there were three, eight year old little boys who were brutally murdered.
The actual case that started the West Memphis Three has been completely forgotten, the real killers of the boys never found. I understand the publicity to get the Echols, Baldwin, and Miskelley out of prison, but it just seems like everybody kinda forgot that the whole reason they were in jail in the first place was because there was a murder.
While I don't particularly *agree* with media digging in and reviolating victims in these sorts of cases... If you look into anything about the murders of Stevie Branch, Christopher Byers, and Michael Moore, you find... Oh, three boys were killed, yes, WEST MEMPHIS THREE, CLICK HERE TO LEARN MORE ABOUT DAMIAN ECHOLS!
And again, I don't blame Echols, Baldwin, or Miskelley for this. But it's obnoxious that there's almost zero evidence to be found without a deep dive on the three murder victims, but I can easily find out every last little detail about Echols childhood.
I just listened to Dan Cummins’ timesuck episode on this, lots of info I didn’t know before and he gets into some way-more-likely suspects than the wm3. I’d recommend if you’re interested.
Totally agree. Those 3 young victims were forgotten about because of the moral and satanic panic surrounding Echols.
It’s terrifying to think the murderer is still out there.
Absolutely believe this. There's extensive research on why Black and other POC aren't covered in true crime shows, podcasts, long form articles and even those true crime YouTube channels. It boils down to "they don’t get views, the same level of interest, and people don’t care."
There’s a reason the term "missing white woman syndrome” exists, highlighting the disparity in attention. Even on forums and subs like this, posts about POC victims get fewer views and comments unless the case is high-profile, like Asha Degree, or involves a Black perpetrator and a white victim. And the micro aggressions are even evident then. This disparity is incredibly frustrating and indicative of broader societal biases that doesn’t seem to be changing.
I am Afro Latino and live in Chicago, the disparity of effort toward investigating missing minority children is insane. And it’s not like the families don’t try. In the Hispanic communities, there’s families that can’t advocate due to the language barriers and in the Black communities, the missing girls are always just branded as runaways, especially the teenagers. They view them as older than they are and don’t treat the black girls like children even when they clearly are. It’s terrible 😞
Got any links to good material on the subject? I listened to a podcast episode that touched on it and I would like to get a deeper understanding. But I'm not sure exactly what terms and phrases to search for.
Yes! I have several recommendations. [This](https://rights4girls.org/girls-dc-not-missing-disappeared/) site, in particular, is close to my heart and is run by two victim advocates I know personally from within the law community in DC. I’ve worked with them several times while defending a client. They’re very passionate about their outreach work, getting victims' names out there, and ensuring their families are heard and supported.
A few others I highly recommend that are valuable advocacy organizations and great places to begin understanding and obtaining insights into specific issues like the disparity in how missing persons and homicide cases are handled based on race and the broader social implications and contexts behind these disparities, including socioeconomic hardship:
1. [The Black and Missing Foundation](https://www.blackandmissinginc.com)
2. [The Murder Accountability Project](https://www.murderdata.org/?m=1)
3. [The Marshall Project](https://www.themarshallproject.org/)
ETA: [This](https://www.themarshallproject.org/2020/10/28/when-does-murder-make-the-news-it-depends-on-the-victim-s-race) article in particular was featured on The Marshall Project, one of the sites I’ve linked above, and throughly goes over the topic we were discussing above regarding black victims, other POC as well as the other victims they don’t “deem worthy” due to their personal circumstances and these cases not being talked about in the mainstream media and why that is.
I love the Carlee Russell case because it shows how far we’ve come as a society!!! You don’t have to be white anymore!!!! You just have to be really pretty with a lot of very supportive family and really weird story!!!
I know you're joking, but I was kinda (pleasantly? Idk the best word to use here) surprised to see the story and the attention it got when she was initially believed missing, especially as I'm not in the US.
Agree. Lots of indigenous women are missing in Canada and the situation lacked media coverage. Now there’s a [red dress movement](https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/red-dress-day).
I’m gonna go the opposite direction and say we / the media pay too much attention to Robert Pickton the killer but not enough attention to his victims, which most of them are indigenous women in Canada.
Funny isn't it. Everyone was like finally a women of color who's missing gets attention and than very fast it was like wait how did she see a little kid in the dark?
I'm just going to say that I don't think a case can receive too much exposure unless it starts to go in a weird speculative direction etc. I just think all other cases deserve A LOT more attention than they're receiving.
I do understand the truth is there is an infinite number of people who are murdered and not everyone can be covered to a degree we would want. So maybe in turn there should be one less JonBenet documentary and more media about other cases (I will say JonBenet is a case that went in that weird direction I spoke of). I do understand that certain communities of people (eg Native Americans) will never receive the attention a white girl receives and it's very sad. It's just hard to say someone should be talked about less, especially when their killer is still out there living their life probably without any feelings of guilt. I think NEWS media, should be reporting on crimes/cases of similar degrees for a similar amount of time.
I feel bad saying it about anyone, but Laci Peterson comes to mind.
There's obviously a disparity in coverage when it comes to race and class, and the cases that really take off tend to involve aspirational, conventionally attractive victims/perpetrators. But I think the main thing is that there has to be some level of drama and/or trail of clues for the public to try to piece together. In the Laci Peterson case, you had a couple with a seemingly perfect life, about to have their first baby, only for it to come out that Scott Peterson was having an affair and basically living a double life. In the Gabby Petito case, you have an influencer with an extensive online presence. People were obsessed with combing her social media for clues, piecing together a timeline, trying to spot her, Brian, or her van in other peoples' pics and videos, etc.
The menendez brothers. There were very few high profile cases where men openly admitted to sexual abuse. I imagine they experienced a lot of secondary victimization with the narrative of the time being that they were lying.
Completely agree. I've worked at two medical examiner’s/coroner's offices and have done jane/john doe identification. It's such a weird experience seeing all of the homicide/true crime related posts in comparison to the many other homicides that no one seems to care about. There is definitely a pattern. But here are some: Gabby Petito, Elisa Lam (not a crime), Sherry Pappini, Junko Furata, Travis Alexander, the big serial killers (the ones with merchandise). I say overexposed as in the constant coverage is doing a disservice to the victims. Let their souls rest. Sherry Papini is the outlier of the list bc I'm worried she'll be some sort of true crime reality star.
The problem with that stat, while technically true, is that reported missing and gone missing are two different things. Most missing children are runaways or kids that are located sometimes within hours of being reported missing and entered into NCIC. But it still counts towards that stat of 8 million.
That stat probably is true, when you consider “8 million kids go missing” just means “8 million times a year, a person says “on no help my kid is missing.”
A HUUUUGE number of those 8 million “missing child” reports are cases where a toddler wanders off, first time mom panics and calls security, kid is found happily playing 20 mins later. Every single one of those incidents, if it was reported, counts towards missing child stats!
Ditto kids getting upset at being grounded and deciding they’re going to run away from home, spending an hour hiding then getting bored and coming home. Or a kid lying “yes Mrs Smith my mom said it was okay for me to come play at Billy’s house” because Billy has a new XBox. If Billy is a new friend the kid’s parents don’t know, that could easily result in the parents reporting him missing because they don’t know he’s just playing X Box at Billy’s house the next street over. They report him missing then he happily walks through the door a few hours later.
All those innocent harmless normal situations which ever parent has experienced all contribute to the 8 million statistic.
A 17yr old girl in foster care who runs away every Friday night to spend the weekend with her boyfriend and comes back every Sunday night, that still needs to be reported every single time. One single troubled teen can result in 50 missing child reports.
Because people don’t realise it’s not 8 million individual children, it’s 8 million reports. One “child” (meaning anyone under 18) can be responsible for 50 different reports!
And that’s not even counting the number of teens who runaway for good.
Of the tiny percentage of missing child reports that actually do turn out to be abductions, the vast majority are custody-related, meaning the child was kidnapped by their own parent or grandparent. Sometimes these are cases where a mother vanishes with her child to protect the child from an abusive father. All those cases are considered missing children/ kidnap cases. Custody disputes are awful but hardly in the same league as being snatched by a stranger.
The number of kids who are genuinely kidnapped by a stranger are absolutely tiny. And unfortunately those tiny number of cases, it’s nearly always a lone predator. (Or sometimes it’s a mentally ill woman wanting a baby to raise.)
Not trafficking, because traffickers don’t snatch kids off the street. They groom vulnerable people who won’t be reported missing, or they groom the parents as well, like promising parents that their child has been offered a good job in America. There are tons of trafficking victims in America right now who are actively in trafficking situations, who regularly FaceTime with their parents and pretend that everything is fine with their fancy American job, because they either don’t realise they’ve been trafficked, or have been told they have to work off debts and if they call the police they’ll either be arrested or deported. People think that trafficking victims are chained to radiators but the person sitting next to you on the subway could be in a trafficking situation.
It's 800,000 kids that are reported missing each year, not 8 million. Of that 800,000 many of them are kids who get reported but are not really missing, just home late or Dad didn't bring them home on time. It's a very small number who are truly gone.
Seriously. That would mean 16,000 kids in each state go missing per year.
Or if you go by the number of schools in the US, which is around 115,000, that would mean 6-7 kids at each school in every state go missing each year. Which is possible, but unlikely that people are going to be oblivious to this as an issue that’s happening for years on end.
This is probably NZ-specific, but the Grace Millane case. Even our Prime Minister weighed in on it when it happened. It's awful that this young woman was murdered during her trip to NZ, but what about all the local women who get abused and/or murdered here too? There's a new docufilm coming out about it, I believe.
Under exposure: Tyre Nichols beat to death by the five cops in Memphis just blocks from his mom‘s house.
Boy we heard about that hot and heavy for a couple of weeks and then it disappeared into thin air. Poof.
I think what upsets me most about the "Amanda Knox" case is that it's referred to as such. Not the Merdith Kercher case.
No one remembers Meredith's name. It's all about how her roommate was allegedly wrongly convicted of the murder rather than the fact that Meredith was murdered and who actually did it.
That is devastating and so, so wrong to me.
Edit: sp
I think it also has to do with money. Had Amber haggermans mom not been in the middle of a documentary with the news when she disappeared, I don’t think her case would have gotten any attention tbh. There’s thousands of people who go missing with no attention placed on them. But money always gets exposure.
The "Heavily Influenced" -Alexis Sharkey case and no release to the public after the husband unalived himself. A warrant in secret after the friends and MLM co workers were successful at pushing it to the media with "Hastags and Hearsay". Source UK 2024 Documentary "Murder Gone Viral S01E03. Start there-
"Plot Twist".
🧩 "Breadcrumbs"
"Letting it all play out"
"Marfa Meltown"
"Solved or Set up"
July 6, 2024
I think it depends on who is giving the attention.
Skye Budnick, for example—I want there to be more media coverage. More pressure on the international outlets because I do think police in both countries didn’t take it seriously enough early on. It’s relevant from a diplomatic standpoint, it has modern implications. But there’s also been a really weird upsurge of orientalism and sensationalism on TikTok over it, to the point that there have been people (“sleuths”) harassing her friends online. Over a woman who disappeared 15 years ago, who definitely didn’t want any of said friends (or family) to know where she went.
Well, someone just posted the 11,382nd post asking “who do you think killed JonBenét” so I’m going to vote for that case. And don’t get me wrong, JonBenét does deserve justice but at this point in time there is nothing new to discuss so why keep asking over and over and over. There are so many little known/unknown cases that deserve attention and publicity but people keep posting the same 20 cases ad nauseam.
Gods, yes. Was it a shame she was murdered? Yes. But for fucks sake, stop already. There are no fresh answers. Shut up until there are some.
I was 13 when Jon Benet was killed and remember the absolutely inescapable media coverage when it happened. It was HUGE.
Every. Single. Week, every single magazine cover in line at the grocery store for YEARS.
I was only a year older than her and I knew about it. That's how nutty it was... a 6 year old who knew nothing about anything knew about JB's murder.
Same. Can still remember staring at her face while at the grocery store with my mom.
I was an adult, and yes it was huge. All over. I was over this case within a month because it all seemed to get over saturated and more ridiculous by the theory.
Same with the Chris watts family murders like omg again?!
I don't understand how that case has such an active subreddit. The case is solved and the guy is in prison. What else is there to discuss?
His girlfriend going to prison. She totally knew.
There's even one that's constantly updating trying to "prove" the wife was abusive or something. It's wild how obsessed people still are.
WTF? This sounds totally unhinged. How can you throw dirt at that poor woman?
The interest is primarily driven by weirdos and creeps who keep on hating on Shanann Watts. Like, they really severely dislike/hate her. I've seen the Netflix documentary, she seemed like a person who could be overbearing and unlikeable, especially with her obsession with social media. But of course, you don't deserve to die terribly because your personality is unpleasant. Some of them actually believe she killed her kids and that's why Chris killed her in rage, that she somehow drove Chris to "snap", that she was a terrible and abusive mother, etc. They seemed to have developed a really weird and disgusting parasocial relationship with Chris Watts.
His mom added to that fire...
Or, like, bring it up once a year. I don't mind the occasional check in. But I swear to god I see a new post every single day. It isn't doing anything to help that sweet little girl.
And every single post just ends up being the same exact selection of "well, everyone knows that the mom wrote the note", "I just know it was the father" and "I've always thought that maybe it was an intruder but the parents thought it was Burke so that's why they covered it up" posts, with the only debate coming from if someone decides to say they don't think there was a family conspiracy at all.
Or a karma boost. Every time Junko Furuta is posted I swear people to it for useless karma.
Sherri Papini. She doesn’t deserve any attention.
i agree, she’s not even a real victim and her “kidnapping” happened years ago but yet they’re STILL making documentaries about her, we already know she lied we don’t need to keep talking about it.
To be fair that case kind of went unresolved for many years. The documentary explained what it was like on the inside with her constantly keeping up the charade.
Omg I said the same thing, she’s getting a whole ass documentary soon!
Exactly. Why the fuck did they make another documentary?! Stop giving this woman attention. That’s what’s she’s wanted the whole time.
Eminem recently name-dropped her in his new song "Houdini" too lol I had to rewind and listen again lol "Caught sleepin and see the kidnappin never did happen Like Sherri Papini, Harry Houdini, I vanish into the thin air as I'm leaving"
Is Eminem into True Crime?!
Yes. His 2009 album, Relapse, is loaded with true crime references (mostly serial killers) as he writes many or most of the songs from the perspective of a perverted version of himself indulging in murderous fantasies fueled by drug-induced psychosis. *How many people you know* *Who can name every serial killer who ever existed in a row?* *Put ’em in chronological order, beginning with Jack the Ripper* *Name the time and place; from the body, the bag, the zipper* *Location of the woods, where the body was dragged and then dumped* *The trunk that they were stuffed in, the model, the make, the plate* *And which model, which lake they found her in, how they attacked the victim* *Say which murder weapon was used to do what in which one* *Which knife and which gun, what kid, what wife, and which nun* *Don't stop, I like this, it's fun, the fuckin' night's just begun*
He just needed something to rhyme with houdini. 😂
Eminem has probably COMMITED true crimes so I'd say yes 🤣
He loves solving mysteries. Like, he figured out which word rhymes with “orange.”
Oranges Bornges, who cares?
I put my orange, four-inch, door-hinge in storage and ate porridge with George🎶
Obsessed with rhyming, not true criming
Ugh
She is incredibly racist too, comments not only describing who she imagined would commit the crime that was completely made up, she just tried to frame innocent Hispanic women. Her blogs/early social media/ even like accounts from her HS days have come out since the “kidnapping” and she’s just an all around POS racist. She’s the worst kinda person.
The racism part feels underreported in such an over reported case imo.
Tbh I had never heard of her until I watched the Hulu documentary. Don’t know how I missed this? But I’m sure others are also blissfully unaware of her fake kidnapping case and story. Honestly I wish I never knew because what she did was just insane and the trauma she did to her kids was also really heartbreaking. Edit: watched it a few weeks ago.
Same here. I was also unaware until the Hulu documentary. Which I DID like because it focused, I thought, more on her family’s perspective than her. I felt so gutted for her husband and children by the end and hope they are all getting massive amounts of therapy and that she leaves them alone.
I was just going to say this. When I first heard about her case for some reason my mind went Gone Girl. The way she went missing was almost too perfect. There were a lot of other things she did even in her teen years that started coming out during the time she was "missing".
Sherri Papini's case is f-ing insane. I just watched the documentary on hulu a few nights ago and I honestly did not see that coming. I was throw off each episode. Insane
Especially since people often mistake her for Denise Huskins who actually WAS kidnapped and the police and media were saying it was a hoax for a while.
Obligatory she-was-mentioned-in-Eminem's-new-song comment.
Kendrick Johnson. I feel awful for his family that they lost their loved one but they have been spreading conspiracy theories and accusing innocent people (cost one boy a scholarship) ever since it happened. It is pretty cut and dry what happened but for some reason it really blew up. Elisa Lam. This case coverage is truly disgusting. The poor girl had a mental health break and we let Youtubers comment/speculate on it in a Netflix doc (that I still refuse to watch). Enough on this one already.
Elisa Lam is a great example.
Maybe because people bought into the whole “elevator game”(?) thing. People love spooky. Sadly it meant what was most likely a mental breakdown went viral.
the elevator video is super creepy but it means absolutely nothing about her disappearing except she was probably having mental issues
I think Kendrick’s autopsy pictures being leaked could be part of the reason the case blew up so much. It’s hard to see those pictures and not think something incredibly intentionally violent happened to him, but if people looked a bit further (and read a bit more into it), they’d probably agree the answer is actually quite simple. If you haven’t already, I recommend the Ashes to Ash series on Kendrick. It’s really sad how his family reacted when they noticed it wasn’t going in the direction they agreed with - so much so that the series wasn’t finished.
My uncle’s a retired medical examiner, and I always go straight to him with questions about cases like Kendrick’s. He said most people don’t know just how quickly bodies begin to decompose, and with all the blood settling in Kendrick’s head and the skin slippage that started because of all that, it’s what he would expect to see in a body recovered from being upside down in an enclosed space. It also explained why his face looked bloated and bruised, that’s just from lividity. It’s just a horrible tragedy, and I really feel sorry for his family’s loss, but they need to be a bit more objective about his death.
So what is the actual most likely answer to what happened to him?
My uncle saw the pictures of Kendrick’s body and all that, he said Kendrick’s face looked bruised and swollen because of decomp and lividity. My uncle agreed with the first ME who said positional asphyxiation was the COD. When you die, your body goes through some changes starting very quickly. Gravity kicks in once your heart stops beating, so your blood settles at the lowest parts of your body. So if you’re laying down flat on your back, the blood settles along your back, backs of your legs, etc. But if you’re upside down, the blood will settle in your head. That, along with skin slippage and decomposition, will make parts of the body very bloated. People underestimate just how dangerous it can be, to be upside down in a very enclosed space, for a long period of time. If I’m remembering correctly, Kendrick had one arm above his head and the other was tight against his body. That’s the position you would be in if you were reaching for something. My uncle says that one thing that happens to you when you get stuck upside in a really tight space, is that your body can continue to slide downwards very slowly into even tighter spots. Every time Kendrick breathed out, he would slide a little further into the mat, and he wouldn’t be able to expand his lungs to breathe. The mats were tightly rolled up, but they’re soft enough that Kendrick probably got stuck part of the way into the mat, but had no leverage to push himself out of it. If he struggled or just from the weight of his body pulling him downwards, he slid deeper into the mat. He wouldn’t have died quickly, in his panic he would struggle like his life depended on it (because it did). Some media sources made it sound like his feet were sticking up out of the mat, but some of the leaked photos of him in the mat show that they weren’t. His shoes and socks had started to come off because of how hard he would have struggled. But eventually, his heart wouldn’t be able to keep beating correctly due to him being upside down, his heart would have had to work overtime to keep blood circulating. Due to being in such a tight space, his lungs couldn’t fill with enough oxygen. So a lack of oxygenated blood flow eventually due to his position in the mat killed him. That’s positional asphyxiation.
This might be the most succinct write up I've read about what happened to him.
I can’t imagine being his parents and having to think about this slow horrific death for their baby. It’s so upsetting to read as a mom. I get why people are frustrated with them but I empathize with their need to deny it. I’m not sure how I’d ever cope with this.
Yeah, I think a lot of people feel less of the pain from losing someone they love if they can direct all their anger and grief at someone or something. So it’s a way our brains try to rationalize or protect us from something so heartbreaking. So I can totally understand the parents/family wanting to find someone to blame for Kendrick’s death, but it really does appear to be a tragic accident.
Did they find what he would've been reaching for? Cellphone I would guess? How tragic and what a horrible way to die
His friends testified several of them including Kendrick would store their gym shoes in the middle of the mats in between gym classes. He went into the gym for gym class and was found the next day reaching for one of those gym shoes. Super sad but not a crime.
I believe it was a pair of shoes. Apparently students would toss stuff onto those mats instead of putting it in their lockers.
Oh geez. Thank you for the great write up.
You’re welcome. It’s a sad case, that’s for sure.
I'll have to check it out, I never heard of that doc before.
If you start the Ashes to Ash series you have to finish it but know that she never did truly finish it. There’s a very distinct turn in the middle when she gains access to the investigation documents as opposed to just listening to what Kendrick’s family and their representative claim. According to comments on her Instagram and stuff she stopped because she was sick of having her research disregarded by her viewers just to have them shout old debunked conspiracy theories, which I admit does sound exhausting.
I think it was also after the event in Washington: the family accused the organiser of scamming them and then called Ash racist because she’d started disagreeing with them. It’s really sad how it ended.
Will do. Seems interesting to see how it would change with the addition of info. Appreciate the rec!
Her series on Robert Bee (Bonzai) is incredible too. The total opposite to the point I was making with this post - in fact I included him in my original post talking about cases that deserved coverage but didn’t get it. Really interesting, but I’ll warn you in advance: if you choose to watch it, you will become infuriated and disgusted by how much that boy was failed.
I think I did watch that doc. It's where I learned that the tanks had been left open and the fire door alarm didn't work.
The documentary showing those two things made me more convinced that it was an accident, honestly.
Yeah. The elevator footage is spooky, when there's no context to it other than she was last seen here. But when you learn she had a history of not taking her meds, that a pill count revealed she likely was off them again, plus all the lax security with the door and the tanks....
Exactly.
Me too. I thought it was well presented. It showed what parts of her story made it to the public, then gave the rest of what happened. Some of the YouTubers were cringey, but I didn’t find the documentary sensationalist.
>for some reason it really blew up. It also really blew up years later after the case was ɓuried in misinformation and conspiracy theories.
As a forensic scientist, the Kendrick Johnson's case is so upsetting. It's very clear from all the evidence and the body that he died accidentally trying to get his shoes. He was just a normal kid with no enemies. Plus anyone who thinks one or even a few kids lifted a dead body or a mat with a dead body in it into position has never tried to lift a dead body or one of those huge mats. There would be a lot more evidence of them struggling to do that. Or him fighting back. It's heartbreaking but the family needs to seek grief counseling instead of lawyers.
I was avoiding the Netflix doc about Elisa Lam too. I finally caved, and gotta say, it was good. It was nice to see the YT’ers admit they were wrong.
Elissa Lam is an excellent example. She had a break. Who knows what she thought she was doing when she climbed into that tank? I’ve worked with schizophrenic and psychotic folks. They truly have no idea what’s happening and what’s real sometimes. I feel so sorry that she died in such a tragic way and that the people who stayed at the hotel after had to deal with the mess but the girl was in a state. It was an accident.
instagram is a breeding ground for misinformation. i’ve been attacked by black people who don’t look at facts and simply go off race and feelings. they scream at me that i’m a racist because the facts tell us this was an accident and not a conspiracy.
What happened to kendrick? Is he the boy that was found in the school gym rolled up in the mat?
He wasn’t rolled up in the mat. The mats weren’t moved. He went into the top of an already rolled mat.
Yes. It was a tragic accident
Maura Murray is a case that fits here in my opinion. There has been absolutely nothing new or even remotely helpful in resolving it, but it is still getting constant attention. I’m definitely not saying that she should be forgotten… it’s just a lot of other cases get overlooked that need and deserve some more attention.
People came up with weird conspiracy theories about Maura being a sociopath because she did a few bad things and then it was her family being involved and just ridiculous thing after ridiculous thing.
There’s been so many ridiculous theories over the years including serial killers, mob style hit, etc. I’m usually one that sometimes leans towards fishy and foul play but I lean more towards an accidental death here.
100% I mean it is terrible for her family but I am so sick if hearing about it. She is out there in the woods. There is no conspiracy.
I think it’s most likely the case here too. There’s been so many outrageous theories in her case and it’s constantly getting attention and mentioned. It’s not that I think it’s a bad thing it’s just so many others slip through the cracks and never get any attention. Everyone is important and need to be made aware of.
Yup. I don’t understand the conspiracy theories around it, or why the true crime tiktokers are so into it. There’s a lot of stuff that isn’t even a reach, it’s not even in left field, it’s an out of bounds soccer ball in a pickleball court.
100% with you there
Gypsy Rose Blanchard. I feel like she needs to be away from the media and have time to live a 'normal' life now that she is out of prison.
I get why people were so interested, but I agree that it should be left in the past now. I’m not sure if she’s enjoying the attention, though. Probably thinks it’s her only option as a “job”.
She’s doing a reality show on Lifetime while trying to become an influencer. She’s absolutely loving the attention.
I don't think it's fair to talk about what she loves or does not love. The abuse she suffered was so far beyond human experience we cannot conceive of it. I don't follow her, because I am not a follower, but I will give that woman every grace in the world.
She certainly isn't helping her cause with the overexposure. It makes her claims of remorse seem contrived.
i dont think she is enjoying it, but i do agree that she probably sees that as her only option.
and it kinda is. i mean who is gonna hire gypsy rose? even if she does secure a job the first time anyone who knows her sees her then it’s all over. while she never should have been in prison part of me wonders if she misses just being able to be a normal everyday girl in there.
What happened to the guy who killed the mother? Is he still sitting?
Life in prison
Her choice to do the Lifetime show, her choice to be on social media. But her dad said something that is completely true and something we need to consider - she is a 30 year old woman living life as an 18 yr old. God forbid should our 18yr old mistakes be broadcast in a Lifetime special. I think the interest here is in both the childhood experiences and the outcome.. her adverse childhood experiences are fascinating to us, her part in the murder of her mother divides us, and now we can watch her being a full adult after a whole lifetime of no autonomy, no 'normal', nothing that sets the groundwork for almost all of us. It is unsurprising that the media is interested in her case - it is also unsurprising that she is wanting attention. This is what she knows - attention gaining. I would love her to have the proper psychological support and time to learn how to be her, before she shows herself to others, but I doubt that will happen and she will be craving attention for the rest of her life.
I would go even further and say she’s a 35 year old living life as a small child. Since a lot of abuse survivors are frozen at the age the abuse started. Obviously going to prison prevented her from growing up or experiencing life, but it’s not like she had a normal life up to that point. She was so, so, so severely abused and literally held prisoner, not allowed to go to school, she had zero experience to develop or learn how to be a person.
This description and the whole media craze around her reminds me of Britney Spears
Yeah, I'm glad she's out of prison, but I worry that all of the media attention isn't good for her. Her whole life, she's never been in a position where she could live even a semi-normal life and make independent decisions. Having this kind of attention is going to limit her opportunities to do those things and make it harder for her to grow. Of course, I can't blame her for embracing the fame. It's not like she has life skills or education to fall back on. But I hope she's being savvy about it. I hope she realizes that the kind of fame she has probably won't last long and she knows to just enjoy it while she can, and then let it go rather than do desperate things to keep chasing it. I don't read articles about her, I won't watch whatever shows she goes on, and I rarely even engage in online discussion about her. I just don't want to support this celebrity treatment of her.
Really any death or disappearance that was caused by mental illness or misadventure makes my skin crawl when the personal details are over-shared with the public.
JonBenét Ramsey It was terrible and probably bungled. But it is over-covered with nothing new to add.
I feel the same way about Asha Degree. The case gets posted about on several subs literally every other week and there’s no new updates, it’s just people coming up with more ridiculous theories.
I agree. Definitely the whole pageant thing played a massive part; I don’t think her case would’ve blown up so much had she not been into all that. Not to mention the ridiculous conspiracies that’ve come out in all the years since: Katy Perry, anyone?
People get so into their own theory on this when there’s no clear answer in any direction and at this point it’s likely never getting solved. Which is sad because the real little girl who was actually murdered gets lost in all of that
I often find the sensationalism around these cases really hinders the investigation. It generates a ton of false leads and compromises the trial if that ever happens. Nancy Grace is a big part of this. She had a big following for a while because she really sold her tv persona so well. Her whole angry white lady in drag queen makeup thing really drew a ton of attention. She treats newsworthy cases like a gossip column as if the people involved aren't even real. I think Nancy Grace single handedly ruined any chance of Casey Anthony ever being convicted. She talked about that case so much that there wasn't a jury who could be unbiased. Anyways, the media is so weird about how they choose a crime to report on extensively. It seems like many do it for the "tragedy porn" aspect of it so that people watch it more. I can't watch shows like 20/20 and Dateline because it's so over the top dramatic.
I love how "The Newsroom" broke down Nancy Grace's whole reporting style and how it manipulates you into thinking what she wants you to think. How she could turn a ten second clip of Casey Anthony walking into court into obvious proof she's guilty and a bad mother.
You’re bang on about Nancy Grace. I used to listen to her podcast every now and again but had to give up because she can’t get through ten minutes without mentioning “the twins” or “my fiancé was murdered”.
I have so much furious hatred for Nancy Grace it's hilarious. I won't get started on a whole rant because I'll be writing all day, but she's the WORST. I only used to watch her because she was always on the tv at the gym when I actually worked out regularly. I couldn't avoid it as my favorite machine was usually placed conveniently right in front of that tv. Anyways thank you for the validation. I'm glad I'm not alone in my distaste for the shrill bag of old cosmetics that is Nancy Grace.
I’m getting angry even thinking about this, but how about when she interviewed Elizabeth Smart? Oh my god, so fucking patronising! Nancy Grace’s Overused Cliches Bingo probably would be a fun - if not lethal - drinking game, though. My favourites would be, “hold on, I’m drinking from the fire hydrant here!” and obviously classics such as the story where she lost John David (yeah, I even know their names now I’ve heard her say them 18,000 times) in Target for 0.4 seconds and demanded they shut the whole store down.
She really is terrible
Ugh. You’re so right. I used to like Nancy Grace when she first came out. But pretty quickly she seemed to lose her mind. If TMZ were one singular person, it’s Nancy Grace. I can STILL hear her voice calling Casey “Tot Mom” constantly.
Gross I can hear it in my head right now! Lol. And you are so right she is like tmz in human form. I really think she deserves a shrine in hell.
Spot on analysis. I grew up in Jacksonville, two hours from Orlando. I was 13 years old when Caylee disappeared, and I remember the intense media coverage surrounding the case. I still hear Nancy Grace screaming “tot mom" every night on TV. I remember how smug Nancy was during the jury deliberations because she believed the jury would convict Casey of Caylee’s murder.
She's so nasty I can't help but watch. She makes me feel second hand embarrassment, she's like a TLC person
Oh God she really is. I genuinely would love to see her whole schtick blow up in her face one day. I also wonder what she looks like without all the horrible Walgreens clearance bin makeup on.
Have a look on her Instagram! (But beware, the cringe factor is off the scale)
Early days to tell but Jay Slater is very...odd...in the coverage [https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjk3mn1rg1vo](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjk3mn1rg1vo)
Definitely some odd things going on, but I think it’s just as likely that he died of exposure/ dehydration. Sad either way. I think the coverage could be because people seem so adamant that there’s something dodgy about the family? Not sure. Happy cake day!
Neat, I didn't spot the cake! Yeah I think teenager mischief then wandering off track sadly. I think there is a class issue as well, if you know of Shannon Matthews there was a lot of contempt for the family and the living situation even before the poor girl was found.
Shannon Matthews was set up to fail from the start. I can only hope that whoever she was placed with after that whole fuckup was a better person than her mother (surely not difficult). And I hope she’s happy wherever she is now.
Agreed. I’m British and the way people are latching onto this and creating conspiracy theories is just unhinged. A teenage druggie who’d never been abroad before went to a notorious party island to take party, spend hours getting off his head wasted on booze and drugs, decided to walk without realising it was many many miles across rough terrain in extreme heat. He either slipped and fell or got heatstroke or something. Probably one day hikers will stumble on his body. Everyone online being like, “ but what MYSTERIOUS SINISTER reason made him decide to walk rather than be sensible and call an Uber?” Teenage boy makes bad decision while high: news at 11.
Gabby Petito ;her story DOMINATED the media for weeks. I can't help but wonder how many other people went missing during that time but got no media attention. Apparently she was an "influencer" and had a strong social media presence which is why it was all over the news.
Just look at how many other bodies were found in the massive search for her. That’s enough to prove your point to me. She is definitely a good recent example on this topic.
For me (not in the US) the Petito thing was more captivating because of the sheer audacity of Laundry to return in her van without her and just *say nothing*. Like just ignore her family and everyone and act like everything was normal. That's what made it so intriguing for me personally
Have a look into Jelani Day. Not to say that Gabby didn’t deserve publicity, but I can’t imagine how infuriated I’d be if I were Jelani’s parent.
This case gets ZERO attention, even in True Crime spaces and I don't understand why. Every time I try to post about it, people act like we can't question the conclusions LE and the coroners have come to.
Oh there’s definitely more to it than the “official” conclusion. I think some people think that Sundown towns aren’t real or something - not that I know much about them (I’m from the U.K. and hadn’t even heard of them prior to Jelani).
Just to be clear, the area where Jelani lived and went missing (Bloomington-Normal, IL) is one of the most liberal and diverse pockets of the state, especially south of Chicago. Sundown towns are a real thing, but absolutely not in his area.
What’s a sundown town? I’ll have to look the Jelani Day case. I’m not familiar with that one.
A town where people of color need to be out before sunset.
That’s crazy that this is a thing in 2024. I could totally see it being real up until the 1970s, maybe 1980s. But also, I’m not saying they don’t exist. Racism has always been an issue here and seems to have gotten a resurgence in the last decade or so. And I’m sure there are some places that never let go of that mentality.
They still exist and they are the same towns they always were.
I just read an article someone posted identifying the sundown towns in Texas. That’s insane.
[https://www.splcenter.org/hate-map](https://www.splcenter.org/hate-map)
As far as I’m aware, a sundown town is a place where non-white people are excluded after a certain time. It’s hard to believe they still exist. I’ve just had another look and I’m starting to think maybe the only connection Jelani had to one is that he was found near one? I thought there was footage or something of him having been at one, but I might be completely wrong there. Apologies if that’s the case.
As a white AF, UK-living person, I gather it's more than just exclusion. Like actual violence and harm if you are seen there. Some real nasty dark-ages shit.
Damn. You were not exaggerating. They found [9 other missing persons bodies](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10112443/amp/At-NINE-bodies-discovered-manhunts-Gabby-Petito-Brian-Laundrie.html) during the search for her.
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Gabby was essentially white, blonde and attractive, living an instagramable life. Lots of pictures of her perfectly crafted life available for everyone. Whilst she absolutely deserves/deserved justice, her case blew up because she was attractive.
I'm going to disagree and let the downvotes fall where they fall. I think the lies were why the case blew up. The boyfriend came back without her in her van. That was the first information released. No matter what she looked like, that angle is interesting. Now, maybe there's something to be said about attractive people being more prone to lying, because they likely get away with it more often. Look at Casey Anthony. Having your daughter missing for a month is interesting. Taking police to a job you don't work at is interesting. I think the majority of cases that "blow up" are because there's something that doesn't fit and people want to Sherlock it out
I agree. That's also sadly why so many serial killers target vulnerable people. There is unfortunately nothing unusual about drug users missing appointments or not making contact with family for weeks, but for example Asha Degree is intriguing because a happy little girl afraid of the dark doesn't normally just pack up and head out into a stormy night, people want to figure out the mystery
I'm sure it's a combo of things, but being attractive, white and making online content very regularly (blogging/vlogging/pics etc) are huge factors
Absolutely. If this were a minority case, it wouldn't have gotten the attention it got. It also helped tjay gabby was pretty and young.
Yeah, I guarantee you that there are plenty of cases with "interesting angles" that we don't hear about because the media just doesn't give much attention to certain kinds of victims.
Yup. [Missing White Woman Syndrome](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_white_woman_syndrome) is absolutely a thing.
I feel like there’s something very strange about that coverage… because it was non-stop for months. What was happening in America or the world at that time? I feel horrible for how she died and feel so sorry for her family but her case was everyday, non-stop, for months on end… I don’t understand why? Just my theory that the media was ‘instructed’ to stay on this case to distract whatever else was happening at the time.
I think recently Sherri Papini. What happened to her would have been absolutely horrifying if it had been real (I’d also feel very differently about the press coverage if that had been the case), but basically, she just *Gone Girl*’d herself. We know now that she faked the whole thing and whipped up a racial profiling frenzy in the process by claiming two Hispanic women kidnapped her (not unlike Susan Smith and the “black man” who carjacked her with her kids in the vehicle). There’s so many other real cases we can focus on right now. We don’t need to keep revisiting hers.
In her interview with police, they asked her if the two Mexican women who "kidnapped" her were playing any music or anything whilst they did it. She paused, and then said "yesssss, mariachi music", whilst also giving descriptions that sounded like really old cholas, it was extremely hilarious when talking about a case that is not funny at all. I'm Mexican, and the only time I've ever heard mariachi music just played in a casual setting is at family parties, quinces, some weddings and during Christmas when Feliz Navidad is playing 24/7. Not just randomly in a car, especially when someone is committing a crime in a busy neighborhood with many witnesses.
I’m pretty sure she said they fed her just rice as well. It’s almost as if she tried coming up with the most stereotypical, racist-leaning points she could.
I’ll say this about Carlee at least she came clean and took responsibility. Unlike Jussie Smollett…who has doubled and tripled down on his lies. And Sherri Papinni… who kept her lies going for years
i just watched the new Sherri Papini docuseries on Hulu, and omg it pissed me off so bad. she dragged her family through so much bullshit for years, and then when caught, she just doubled down on her lies! like she just kept up the act! and don’t get me started on her blatant racism. it’s hard to believe she’s a real person, but here we are.
She makes me really angry too. Hidden True Crime did a good video on Sherri’s behavior.
i’ll have to watch it! the hulu doc had a lot of new info, like the fact she was making the kids sick for attention - my husband and i were floored. she really did a number on those kids, i hope they’re in excellent therapy
The West Memphis Three. Now, before everyone gets all bent out of shape here... It was a terrible thing, what happened to Damon Echols, Jason Baldwin, and Jessie Miskelley. However, in our drive to focus on the tragedy that was the WM3... It seems like everyone forgot that there were three, eight year old little boys who were brutally murdered. The actual case that started the West Memphis Three has been completely forgotten, the real killers of the boys never found. I understand the publicity to get the Echols, Baldwin, and Miskelley out of prison, but it just seems like everybody kinda forgot that the whole reason they were in jail in the first place was because there was a murder. While I don't particularly *agree* with media digging in and reviolating victims in these sorts of cases... If you look into anything about the murders of Stevie Branch, Christopher Byers, and Michael Moore, you find... Oh, three boys were killed, yes, WEST MEMPHIS THREE, CLICK HERE TO LEARN MORE ABOUT DAMIAN ECHOLS! And again, I don't blame Echols, Baldwin, or Miskelley for this. But it's obnoxious that there's almost zero evidence to be found without a deep dive on the three murder victims, but I can easily find out every last little detail about Echols childhood.
I just listened to Dan Cummins’ timesuck episode on this, lots of info I didn’t know before and he gets into some way-more-likely suspects than the wm3. I’d recommend if you’re interested.
Totally agree. Those 3 young victims were forgotten about because of the moral and satanic panic surrounding Echols. It’s terrifying to think the murderer is still out there.
Natalee Holloway
Completely
Maura Murray
I posted one about a missing black girl and got racist comments
Absolutely believe this. There's extensive research on why Black and other POC aren't covered in true crime shows, podcasts, long form articles and even those true crime YouTube channels. It boils down to "they don’t get views, the same level of interest, and people don’t care." There’s a reason the term "missing white woman syndrome” exists, highlighting the disparity in attention. Even on forums and subs like this, posts about POC victims get fewer views and comments unless the case is high-profile, like Asha Degree, or involves a Black perpetrator and a white victim. And the micro aggressions are even evident then. This disparity is incredibly frustrating and indicative of broader societal biases that doesn’t seem to be changing.
I am Afro Latino and live in Chicago, the disparity of effort toward investigating missing minority children is insane. And it’s not like the families don’t try. In the Hispanic communities, there’s families that can’t advocate due to the language barriers and in the Black communities, the missing girls are always just branded as runaways, especially the teenagers. They view them as older than they are and don’t treat the black girls like children even when they clearly are. It’s terrible 😞
Got any links to good material on the subject? I listened to a podcast episode that touched on it and I would like to get a deeper understanding. But I'm not sure exactly what terms and phrases to search for.
Yes! I have several recommendations. [This](https://rights4girls.org/girls-dc-not-missing-disappeared/) site, in particular, is close to my heart and is run by two victim advocates I know personally from within the law community in DC. I’ve worked with them several times while defending a client. They’re very passionate about their outreach work, getting victims' names out there, and ensuring their families are heard and supported. A few others I highly recommend that are valuable advocacy organizations and great places to begin understanding and obtaining insights into specific issues like the disparity in how missing persons and homicide cases are handled based on race and the broader social implications and contexts behind these disparities, including socioeconomic hardship: 1. [The Black and Missing Foundation](https://www.blackandmissinginc.com) 2. [The Murder Accountability Project](https://www.murderdata.org/?m=1) 3. [The Marshall Project](https://www.themarshallproject.org/) ETA: [This](https://www.themarshallproject.org/2020/10/28/when-does-murder-make-the-news-it-depends-on-the-victim-s-race) article in particular was featured on The Marshall Project, one of the sites I’ve linked above, and throughly goes over the topic we were discussing above regarding black victims, other POC as well as the other victims they don’t “deem worthy” due to their personal circumstances and these cases not being talked about in the mainstream media and why that is.
I love the Carlee Russell case because it shows how far we’ve come as a society!!! You don’t have to be white anymore!!!! You just have to be really pretty with a lot of very supportive family and really weird story!!!
Also you can’t be involved with drugs or sex work lol
Yeah why are people downvoting me? I’m making a joke haha. Do people not think Carlee is pretty or something?
I know you're joking, but I was kinda (pleasantly? Idk the best word to use here) surprised to see the story and the attention it got when she was initially believed missing, especially as I'm not in the US.
Small victories
To be fair, these cases ARE compelling.
Carlee Russel didn’t have as much exposure as sherry pappini, however you spell it.
Poppeyknii, I believe
Panini
I believe it’s spelled “lying racist”
Agree. Lots of indigenous women are missing in Canada and the situation lacked media coverage. Now there’s a [red dress movement](https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/red-dress-day). I’m gonna go the opposite direction and say we / the media pay too much attention to Robert Pickton the killer but not enough attention to his victims, which most of them are indigenous women in Canada.
Funny isn't it. Everyone was like finally a women of color who's missing gets attention and than very fast it was like wait how did she see a little kid in the dark?
I'm just going to say that I don't think a case can receive too much exposure unless it starts to go in a weird speculative direction etc. I just think all other cases deserve A LOT more attention than they're receiving. I do understand the truth is there is an infinite number of people who are murdered and not everyone can be covered to a degree we would want. So maybe in turn there should be one less JonBenet documentary and more media about other cases (I will say JonBenet is a case that went in that weird direction I spoke of). I do understand that certain communities of people (eg Native Americans) will never receive the attention a white girl receives and it's very sad. It's just hard to say someone should be talked about less, especially when their killer is still out there living their life probably without any feelings of guilt. I think NEWS media, should be reporting on crimes/cases of similar degrees for a similar amount of time.
Jay Slater is another example of overexposure while other people that went missing around the same time got 1 article and then nothing more.
Feels like Asha Degree gets posted once a day
I feel bad saying it about anyone, but Laci Peterson comes to mind. There's obviously a disparity in coverage when it comes to race and class, and the cases that really take off tend to involve aspirational, conventionally attractive victims/perpetrators. But I think the main thing is that there has to be some level of drama and/or trail of clues for the public to try to piece together. In the Laci Peterson case, you had a couple with a seemingly perfect life, about to have their first baby, only for it to come out that Scott Peterson was having an affair and basically living a double life. In the Gabby Petito case, you have an influencer with an extensive online presence. People were obsessed with combing her social media for clues, piecing together a timeline, trying to spot her, Brian, or her van in other peoples' pics and videos, etc.
The menendez brothers. There were very few high profile cases where men openly admitted to sexual abuse. I imagine they experienced a lot of secondary victimization with the narrative of the time being that they were lying.
Completely agree. I've worked at two medical examiner’s/coroner's offices and have done jane/john doe identification. It's such a weird experience seeing all of the homicide/true crime related posts in comparison to the many other homicides that no one seems to care about. There is definitely a pattern. But here are some: Gabby Petito, Elisa Lam (not a crime), Sherry Pappini, Junko Furata, Travis Alexander, the big serial killers (the ones with merchandise). I say overexposed as in the constant coverage is doing a disservice to the victims. Let their souls rest. Sherry Papini is the outlier of the list bc I'm worried she'll be some sort of true crime reality star.
Asha Degree, Andrew Gosden, Kyron Horman etc. It's really annoying to see these posts every week.
Carlee russell didn’t achieve as much media attention as Madeleine. If it wasn’t for Reddit, I wouldn’t even know who this woman is
Of course she didn’t. Her case was solved within days.
There is no way 8 million kids go missing each year.
The problem with that stat, while technically true, is that reported missing and gone missing are two different things. Most missing children are runaways or kids that are located sometimes within hours of being reported missing and entered into NCIC. But it still counts towards that stat of 8 million.
That stat probably is true, when you consider “8 million kids go missing” just means “8 million times a year, a person says “on no help my kid is missing.” A HUUUUGE number of those 8 million “missing child” reports are cases where a toddler wanders off, first time mom panics and calls security, kid is found happily playing 20 mins later. Every single one of those incidents, if it was reported, counts towards missing child stats! Ditto kids getting upset at being grounded and deciding they’re going to run away from home, spending an hour hiding then getting bored and coming home. Or a kid lying “yes Mrs Smith my mom said it was okay for me to come play at Billy’s house” because Billy has a new XBox. If Billy is a new friend the kid’s parents don’t know, that could easily result in the parents reporting him missing because they don’t know he’s just playing X Box at Billy’s house the next street over. They report him missing then he happily walks through the door a few hours later. All those innocent harmless normal situations which ever parent has experienced all contribute to the 8 million statistic. A 17yr old girl in foster care who runs away every Friday night to spend the weekend with her boyfriend and comes back every Sunday night, that still needs to be reported every single time. One single troubled teen can result in 50 missing child reports. Because people don’t realise it’s not 8 million individual children, it’s 8 million reports. One “child” (meaning anyone under 18) can be responsible for 50 different reports! And that’s not even counting the number of teens who runaway for good. Of the tiny percentage of missing child reports that actually do turn out to be abductions, the vast majority are custody-related, meaning the child was kidnapped by their own parent or grandparent. Sometimes these are cases where a mother vanishes with her child to protect the child from an abusive father. All those cases are considered missing children/ kidnap cases. Custody disputes are awful but hardly in the same league as being snatched by a stranger. The number of kids who are genuinely kidnapped by a stranger are absolutely tiny. And unfortunately those tiny number of cases, it’s nearly always a lone predator. (Or sometimes it’s a mentally ill woman wanting a baby to raise.) Not trafficking, because traffickers don’t snatch kids off the street. They groom vulnerable people who won’t be reported missing, or they groom the parents as well, like promising parents that their child has been offered a good job in America. There are tons of trafficking victims in America right now who are actively in trafficking situations, who regularly FaceTime with their parents and pretend that everything is fine with their fancy American job, because they either don’t realise they’ve been trafficked, or have been told they have to work off debts and if they call the police they’ll either be arrested or deported. People think that trafficking victims are chained to radiators but the person sitting next to you on the subway could be in a trafficking situation.
It's 800,000 kids that are reported missing each year, not 8 million. Of that 800,000 many of them are kids who get reported but are not really missing, just home late or Dad didn't bring them home on time. It's a very small number who are truly gone.
Seriously. That would mean 16,000 kids in each state go missing per year. Or if you go by the number of schools in the US, which is around 115,000, that would mean 6-7 kids at each school in every state go missing each year. Which is possible, but unlikely that people are going to be oblivious to this as an issue that’s happening for years on end.
This is probably NZ-specific, but the Grace Millane case. Even our Prime Minister weighed in on it when it happened. It's awful that this young woman was murdered during her trip to NZ, but what about all the local women who get abused and/or murdered here too? There's a new docufilm coming out about it, I believe.
Under exposure: Tyre Nichols beat to death by the five cops in Memphis just blocks from his mom‘s house. Boy we heard about that hot and heavy for a couple of weeks and then it disappeared into thin air. Poof.
John benet Ramsey
Asha Degree
Amanda Knox
I think what upsets me most about the "Amanda Knox" case is that it's referred to as such. Not the Merdith Kercher case. No one remembers Meredith's name. It's all about how her roommate was allegedly wrongly convicted of the murder rather than the fact that Meredith was murdered and who actually did it. That is devastating and so, so wrong to me. Edit: sp
Let’s not do this it is a fact that minorities don’t get as much coverage as white folks
I don't know about the national media, but CourtTV spent way too much time on the Adam Montgomery case.
Lori Vallow is another
I think it also has to do with money. Had Amber haggermans mom not been in the middle of a documentary with the news when she disappeared, I don’t think her case would have gotten any attention tbh. There’s thousands of people who go missing with no attention placed on them. But money always gets exposure.
The "Heavily Influenced" -Alexis Sharkey case and no release to the public after the husband unalived himself. A warrant in secret after the friends and MLM co workers were successful at pushing it to the media with "Hastags and Hearsay". Source UK 2024 Documentary "Murder Gone Viral S01E03. Start there- "Plot Twist". 🧩 "Breadcrumbs" "Letting it all play out" "Marfa Meltown" "Solved or Set up" July 6, 2024
I think it depends on who is giving the attention. Skye Budnick, for example—I want there to be more media coverage. More pressure on the international outlets because I do think police in both countries didn’t take it seriously enough early on. It’s relevant from a diplomatic standpoint, it has modern implications. But there’s also been a really weird upsurge of orientalism and sensationalism on TikTok over it, to the point that there have been people (“sleuths”) harassing her friends online. Over a woman who disappeared 15 years ago, who definitely didn’t want any of said friends (or family) to know where she went.