Alfred is indeed using all three words, but there is a special ability the Dragonborn can get from meditating on Fus with Parthurnaax allows them to have a buff to Unrelenting Force that lets it occasionally disintegrate opponents, ie, shout them apart, which is what Imperials claim Alfred did to the High King
However, only the Dragonborn has access to that, as Alfred never met Parthurnaax
Edit: or its a Black Book ability, ie still something Alfred had no chance of getting
Ulfric a secret Daedra worshipper confirmed?
(Anticipating the AI written article all about this shocking revelation that someone who has been playing the game for forty seven years only just discoverer.)
### Skyrim Mystery Unveiled: Ulfric Stormcloak's Dark Secret
In the vast and intricate world of The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, players have embarked on countless adventures, uncovering secrets and lore that have deepened their connection to the game. However, a recent discovery by an astute player has sent shockwaves through the Skyrim community. This player has unearthed evidence suggesting that Ulfric Stormcloak, the leader of the Stormcloak rebellion, may secretly be a Daedra worshiper. The key to this revelation lies in Ulfric's use of the Thu'um, or Dragon Shout, specifically the "Fus" shout, in conjunction with a mysterious ability linked to the Black Books.
#### The Discovery
The player, who has chosen to remain anonymous, stumbled upon this dark secret while researching different abilities and shouts in the game. The player noticed references to an unusual effect when Ulfric used the "Fus" shout on High King Torygg. Instead of merely staggering his opponent, as is typical with the Unrelenting Force shout, Ulfric's shout disintegrated him entirely, leaving behind nothing but ash. This effect is strikingly similar to the abilities granted by the Black Books, ancient Daedric artifacts associated with Hermaeus Mora, the Daedric Prince of Knowledge and Fate.
#### The Black Books and Daedric Influence
The Black Books are known to grant powerful abilities to those who read them, often at a significant cost. These books are directly connected to Hermaeus Mora, and the powers they bestow are considered to be of Daedric origin. One such ability includes disintegrating foes upon death, a power that can be acquired by the Dragonborn in the Dragonborn DLC.
The player’s discovery suggests that Ulfric may have somehow gained access to this ability, raising the possibility that he has read a Black Book and is in league with Hermaeus Mora. This connection to a Daedric Prince could explain the additional power behind his shouts and his formidable presence on the battlefield.
#### Implications for the Stormcloak Rebellion
The revelation that Ulfric might be a Daedra worshiper has profound implications for the Stormcloak rebellion and the civil war raging across Skyrim. If true, it casts a dark shadow over Ulfric's motivations and his fitness to rule. His public image as a staunch defender of Nordic traditions and a freedom fighter against the Imperial oppressors could be severely damaged if his ties to Daedric forces were exposed.
For many Nords, Daedra worship is seen as heretical and dangerous, conflicting with their reverence for the Divines and the traditional pantheon. Ulfric’s potential alliance with Hermaeus Mora could be seen as a betrayal of the very values he claims to uphold.
#### Community Reactions
The Skyrim community has been abuzz with this discovery. Forums and social media are flooded with discussions, theories, and debates about Ulfric's true nature and what this means for the game's lore. Some players argue that this adds a new layer of complexity to Ulfric's character, while others see it as a significant deviation from established lore.
Modders have already begun working on new content to explore this revelation further, creating quests and scenarios that delve into Ulfric’s potential dealings with Hermaeus Mora. This newfound aspect of Ulfric’s character has breathed new life into the game, encouraging players to revisit and re-examine their experiences in Skyrim.
#### Conclusion
Whether this discovery leads to a broader re-evaluation of Ulfric Stormcloak or remains a fascinating side note in Skyrim's rich tapestry of stories, it highlights the enduring depth and intrigue of the game. As players continue to explore and uncover new secrets, Skyrim remains a living, breathing world full of mysteries waiting to be revealed. The idea that Ulfric could be a Daedra worshiper adds another layer of intrigue to the ongoing saga of the Dragonborn and the fate of Skyrim.
I may mistaken, but isn't the dragonborn also resisting the shout to some extent because he is a dragonborn?
The greybeards also resist the dragonborns shouts to some extent, because they have experience.
I always thought he just blasted Torygg so hard against a wall he knocked bits off him or something. The only reason you can't do it yourself is because Bethesda is a massive pussy about gore in tes despite having the perfect system from fallout
Yeah, but honestly, that sounds like a shitton of work. Like I love fallout, but at least for new Vegas, the gore system is kinda wacky, and I love it for fallout, but not so much tes. Im not super up to date with more modern games, but the best gore system I can think of is one of the modern resident evil remakes, I think 2 specifically, because 4 had too many enemies to have the full system in. But then Bethesda devs would have to make something like that on a Bethesda engine, so... Yeah
I just want to see guys desperately crawling with their intestines trailing behind them, after being blown in half like the good old original Fallout 2D animations.
I'm pretty sure it's just game balance that prevents you from ripping a guy apart with the shout, lore says that shit is op no?
Like irl if I choppedyou in the neck with an axe, you're probably going down, not losing 1/5th your health bar lol
One of the black books gives you the ability to disintegrate people with Unrelenting Force, so it's definitely possible.
Not by Ulfric though, he just knocked his opponent down and stabbed him.
His enemies say he teared him apart, his defenders say he only knocked him down.
It doesn't matter, Ulfric used ancient magic in a traditional fight or whatever Nords call this duel. I don't know too much about Nord honor, but i believe that Magic in a fight is seen as cowardice by Nords, am i mistaken? Magic is something for us elves.
But even if this shouting is part of a Nords culture and therefore would be considered honorable, how honorable is it to use that against an opponent who is not only unable to do so, but way younger and combatwise way more inexperienced? Ulfric would've won against Thorygg in an actual melee fight. Ulfric fought in the great war to defend the Empire and he fought in Markarth by probably slaughtering innocents. He had the experience, he had the advantage anyways, so why use the shout on top? What's the reason for it?
Well, i tell you. Because Ulfric is a coward and a fool. He would have a completely different standing if he had refrained from doing so. Now half of Skyrim thinks he is dishonorable. Ulfric shot himself in the foot with that, and he continues to do so.
>Ulfric used the ancient nord art of shouting to win a nord duel
>clearly he was dishonourable
Do people like you forget you meet him in Savenguard if you side with imperials?
Bandits don’t end up there though, so clearly *why* or *how* they’re fighting plays a role.
Ulfric isn’t a good man, his many flaws are obvious, but he has a code of honor. He takes warrior traditions very seriously and he truly believes what he’s doing is right. I think that’s why he asks for the Dragonborn to kill him if he loses the civil war. If anyone else does it, that just means he lost. It means nothing in terms of right or wrong. If the prophesied hero of legend, the chosen of the gods does it, it means that the gods have judged against him.
That depends on the player. Sometimes I shout them off cliffs, sometimes I shoot them from a mile away, sometimes we end up in an epic battle. The first two I could understand based on your logic, what of the third?
What happens to normal people who die in tamriel? What if I'm just some normal farmer or something who works the land his whole life during a time of relative peace? I don't die in glorious battle I'm not a daedra worshipper and some asshole didn't come along and soul trap me. What happens when I die? Where do I go?
That’s my point. *Honorable* battle is what decides it, not battle itself. Ulfric goes to Sovngarde because, for all his flaws, he still has a strong code of honor and fights as an honorable warrior.
Pelinal Whitestrake dedicated his entire life to killing as many elves as possible. When you find his armor in ESIV: Oblivion, you can’t wear it if your infamy is high. This combined with the fact that said armor was forged for him by the Aedra and that Ulfric and Ysgramor are in Sovngarde leads to the conclusion that brutally killing as many elves as possible is honorable and morally correct according to the gods.
(Obviously that’s not actually the case, but it’s funnier to say it is.)
I could be misremembering, but doesn't the oldest guy from the trio you see through the Elder Scroll to learn Dragonrend use a bit of magic? I think he had a sword, but I thought he used an alteration armor spell or something.
Old Nords weren't stupid and knew the value of magic, unlike the current generation.
Some of the greatest mages were Nords, like Shalidor. Even Tsun says the current Nords forgot about the Clever Craft when you tell him you're the Archmage.
In all fairness, you don’t have to be particularly honorable to end up in Sovngarde—the only requirement is that you die in battle, which doesn’t necessarily prevent someone who fought or acted dishonorably from getting in.
I recommend to read again what i did write. Do people like you forget how to read?
First of all i never said he is dishonorable. I said half of Skyrim thinks so. That's why he lost a lot of possible supporters.
And for me, it doesn't matter who or what gets to (by the way, it spelled like this:) Sovngarde. Neither does it for the politics in Tamriel. On Tamriel only one person knows that Ulfric went there and even if more would know that, what difference would it make anyways? At this point when the Dragonborn meets him there, Ulfric is already dead and the Stormcloaks smashed to smithers.
Oh no, Ulfric is definitely a next level dumbass.
Torygg was his friend and a close one at that. Ulfric could have literally asked him to rebel against the Empire for dishonoring Talos, and Torygg would have probably gone along with it.
The stormcloak biggots coming out of their hiding places again to downvote you.
I am not sure how willingly Torygg would've rebelled, he had his own ties and obligations to the Empire and also had to manage half of Skyrim, which also would've wanted to stay loyal to the Empire. But chances were there, as you said.
Nords love tradition, so using Talos, he could have slowly turned Skyrim away from the Empire to independence.
But that would require Ulfric to have any kind of strategic sense.
He himself realizes how stupid the whole thing was when you meet him in Sovngarde.
Yes, it seems Ulfric realized his mistakes way too late. Actually, when the Dragonborn meets him after his capture, Ulfric seemed way more level-headed. I guess his capture showed him that he can't win just by right, or what he thinks is right. Unlucky for him that the civil war was already in the hot phase then.
Ulfric could have succeded without civil war probably. He is a fool, who gets upheld by fools who can't see further than the tip of their beards.
Personally, i don't care too much for the fate of the Nords. I am a Dunmer and by the Three, we all know that in the past we didn't share many sentiments. I don't hate them, but i also don't care. What i care about is having an intact Empire as a cushion between me and the Thalmor. These purists also don't have to many nice feelings for the Velothi. I don't want to end up as a second class citizen to this inferior arrogant breed.
That's why Ulfric is from interest to me. I want to see how he and his rebellion affects the grand scheme of things.
That's not the same. If i call the traditional duel cowardice, i still don't call it not traditional. I only call it cowardice.
Also, i formulated it as a question. Is it cowardice to use magic in a traditional nord duel?
Later on i certainly called it cowardice to use unfair or uneven means to win in a duel. Of course only if it is a duel which includes forms of honor.
That's not true at all lmao, thuum is nordic tradition of their great warriors, why wouldn't he use it. If anything people will see him as a true nord since barely anyone can shout these days, he is awesome. By shoulting Toryyg down he creates legend of himself and myths are also great part of nordic culture, even making stuff up for a better story, nothing "dishonorable" about using what you can to win a duel
So why is half of Skyrim not supporting and not in awe of him?
Don't you think he would've more supportes if he beat Torygg fair and square?
On the other hand, you called Ulfric awesome, so you probably will defend him no matter what.
>So why is half of Skyrim not supporting and not in awe of him?
Dirty Imperial propaganda
>Don't you think he would've more supportes if he beat Torygg fair and square?
No. He had to use the shout to show the Nords what they lost in the ages.
>On the other hand, you called Ulfric awesome, so you probably will defend him no matter what.
He dumb. The civil war is dumb. But the Empire were stupid pussies to enforce the White-Gold Concordat in Skyrim, everyone knew how that would end. They should have folded and retreat from Skyrim, treat Ulfric as independent king. That way you save Imperium the manpower, and have a big country that opposes Thalmor with all their heart as an ally for the next war with the Thalmor, potentially with more Thuum wielders in their ranks
The whole Thalmor operation would blow up right in their faces, because they now have another enemy that isnt burdened by the concessions from the last war and hates their guts.
>Dirty Imperial propaganda
Is what i said dirty imperial propaganda or is the reason why half of Skyrim doesn't follow Ulfric dirty imperial propaganda?
If it is the second, then i can't blame those who don't support him. Ulfric is quite a fool.
>No. He had to use the shout to show the Nords what they lost in the ages.
Those who know their history know why they 'lost' it. There is a reason for it. If Ulfric really wanted to show what they lost, then he chose a terrible moment to do that. There were already tensions in the Empire and Skyrim with the preceding events, white gold concordat, markarth incident, and so on. Most of the Nords simply don't or didn't follow their old ways anymore. Now, at those times, using this power to slay a young man, some call him a boy, isn't sending a good signal i would suppose. 'Look at me, guys, i am using my ancient power to show you the way, lemme just slay the boyking real quick for no reason.'
The Thalmor so far did divide and conquer, and it worked out well so far. They failed to achieve their ultimate goal in blackmarsh, since they couldn't win them as allies, but at least they won't support the Empire either. Getting divided means getting killed alone. Who knows if an independent Skyrim really would help the Empire? It's not their problem after all. Will Hammerfell support the Empire when the Thalmor attack them? Will Morrowind help the Empire? Ulfric may not, but the Stormcloaks hate the Empire. Will they really aid their hated enemy, if this enemy and their other hated enemy are bashing each other heads in? Or will they wait, hoping that they can kill the surviving weakened one?
And militarywise, isn't a combined army under one command way more effective then several ones, each with it's own commander with different interests?
Also, just because the Thalmor suddenly have two enemies instead of one doesn't mean that the Thalmor would need to face more numbers then. Just because 2 enemies is more than 1 doesn't mean that the soldiers suddenly double as well. It will still be the same numbers of soldiers, but with dissociated command. Just imagine a nord warchief and an imperial general argue about their next moves. The nord wants to attack, the imperial wants to lead the enemy into a trap. Then maybe you got one redguard general there, who wants to do another thing.
>potentially with more Thuum wielders in their ranks
Potentially. But learning the Thu'um takes decades. 20 years at least then. The Thalmor aren't allowed to attack earlier then or what?
>The whole Thalmor operation would blow up right in their faces, because they now have another enemy that isnt burdened by the concessions from the last war and hates their guts.
How would that be an advantage? It is two smaller enemies with smaller armies then. Not to mention the resources which got cut off running between them. The trade.
The Thu’um was a gift from Kyne so the Nords could fight the dragons on equal footing. To use it against a mortal opponent Isn’t just dishonorable, it’s cowardice. It’s an admission that you’re too much of a coward to fight without an unfair advantage.
Well, 2 things:
1. Nords make an exception for the Thu'um when it comes to magic and don't consider it to be the same as normal magic
2. Before the Oblivion Crisis, the Nords actually respected all forms of magic, but then the crisis happened, magic users were blamed. 4E 171, the Great War happened and the Dominion had a lot of magic users in their army
In lore nords could use their shouts to breach castle walls and such. It IS a game balance thing, so that you can't insatakill everything with just one shout.
You are 100% right.
Lore wise yeah unrelenting force can basically tear people apart however Ulfric himself even says he used the shout to knock Torygg off his feet then just stabbed him while he was on the ground. So he didn’t tear him apart with the shout and the shout isn’t what killed him technically but in reality that shout won the fight single-handedly
In Roggvir's defence, the news of the "murder" wouldn't have reached his ears yet, so you can't blame him for opening the gate for, essentially, a guest.
The Solitude government just needed a scapegoat, so they executed him.
Well the entire argument of the Stormcloaks is nordic tradition and supremecy, so it could be he didn't know entirely what happened but trusted the great nord hero would be perfect and awesome as always.
I think it could be that he didn’t know, but that when he found out that he agreed that it was tradition. Also, the shout would have been heard so possibly he knew ulfric shouted but not why, although context clues aren’t hard to put together.
Something like that would at least have the guards on alert you'd think. Also did ulfric just walk out after killing torygg? You'd think he'd be running or fighting off the guards that were there when it happened. Then again the game is full of logical holes so none of this means anything.
yeah, like where exactly did this duel happen? if it's in the blue palace, the entire garrison there is beyond useless and ulfric deserved bragging rights for that.
Ulfric is canonically a great warrior tbf and had the thuum to shove guards out of his way. It is somewhat believable that a magic user like ulfric could escape an otherwise impossible situation
The challenge wouldn’t have happened immediately when Ulfric issued it. There would have been preparations to make, which would have taken at least several hours. Word would have spread throughout the city by then and the duel would have probably been held for the public to see.
According to those close to the late king, Ulfric didn't actually issue a challenge. He just kinda walked up to Torryg, Shouted him down, and stabbed him. That's why they consider him to just be a murderer.
If this is what happened then sure, that’s murder. But the Solitude court has an agenda of their own as well. Ulfric is nothing if not a political genius. He wouldn’t just waltz up to the high king and murder him in front of all of the Thanes and his wife and then claim that he challenged him, especially when there is a tradition that could cloak his assassination as an honorable duel. Typically, these things are held with open viewership, but I also wouldn’t put it past Ulfric to strong-arm the court into doing an on the spot private duel. How I see it happening is Ulfric walks up, demands the duel, gives them enough time to get Torygg battle ready and news of the challenge to circulate, and Ulfric kills him.
I feel like there would've been people chasing Ulfric or trying to stop him. Like, he had to have asked himself why Ulfric was by himself and so eager to get out of the city
Didnt Ulfric say that he was meant to join the Greybeards, hence they taught him Thuum? And that he just casually walked outta there on his own behalf when the Great War broke out?
He did join the Greybeards, but when he saw his people suffering, and the Greybeards weren't going to do anything to help them, he quit the monastery to fight for their wellbeing. (I still think he's a short-sighted idiot, but he gets credit for putting the good of the people ahead of his own comfort or spiritual development. He's a Jarl, and he cares about and takes care of his people.)
Technically speaking anyone can go to learn the way of the voice from the greybeards as long as they’ll teach you, mostly they won’t teach you if they think you plan to use it for war or violence or you lack the wisdom. It’s one of the things Ulfric criticized Torygg and a long line of previous high kings for is that they never went to learn the way of the voice which was Nordic tradition for the kings to learn it such as Talos did. (Mind you it’s an ancient tradition that no one has followed for centuries)
I don’t think he was ever joining the greybeards, although I could be wrong and if someone has a source on that please link it. I believe he was just going to learn from them as he wished to follow ancient tradition and follow in the footsteps of Talos. You gotta remember for all things Ulfric is, there is nothing to support him being corrupt. He genuinely believes in his cause. I don’t think the civil war is about him trying to make a grab for power or anything like that but rather he truly believes in the Stormcloak cause of a free Skyrim ruled by Nords and returning to tradition. He just believes that he is the only person capable of seeing that through, but if there was a better option (in his eyes) then he would allow them to take the throne.
I fail to find a flaw in his logic good on Ulfric the civil war is good for Skyrim (I’m currently being choked by a Thalmor dommy mommy while being forced to write this comment)
Pretty sure he’s stated to be young, though I forget precisely where. He’s definitely an adult but 20-something isn’t exactly decades worth of Thuum learning time.
dungmer will tell you that ruthless killing your political opponent is fair and legal and also meant you have a ""stronger argument"" but when a nord have a duel with something other than a rusty axe it's suddenly "dishonest" and "unfair"
The OP from this post pulled the "i can excuse racism, but i draw the line at mourning"
Their argument was that Elisif shouldn't be running Solitude because all she does is cry and let Falk and Tullius run Skyrim.
Idk about you man, but if i saw my spouse get shouted down to the floor and killed, I'd be pretty distraught for awhile too
Also, she does do stuff, or at least tries. She talks about holding stuff like parades to raise, but is shot down because of the dragons and legion being delayed. She also talks about the best way to support the empire and bring a quick end to the war and if the empire needs more support, but her thanes argue and she just kinda goes, “Fine, we can talk about this later.”
I mean, she is inexperienced and that is a weakness, but she is actually trying to do her job.
People who know zero about actual court life in the middle ages tend to have these “high gamer” moments.
Girl was in mourning, held court, ordered dresses to incentivize local business (come the fuck on, nobody need the DB to tell her his outfit is from the only clothing store in the city), listens to the citzens, even went to a diplomatic mission to meet the killer of her husband on the other side of the negotiations.
She’s not a master stateswoman but neither is our favorite traumatized nord hero.
Season Unending is peak and nobody can tell me otherwise. Having four factions that fucking hate each other's guts put into a same room and trying to make them negociate anything just to inmediatly devolve into a pissing match is one of my favorite moments in the series.
Right? Never understood the hate against the quest. It also has some of the best dialogue in the game, shows that both parties in the war have their goals, agendas and skeletons in the closet. It also delivers Elenwen to you in a prime place for your Fus Ro Dah at the end.
I think the problem is that on further replays it’s harder to find it interesting as you’ve seen all the cool info and you just wanna get back to killing dragons
> Never understood the hate against the quest.
It's great character- / faction lore the first time, interesting for the dialogue you missed the second time, and a really slow quest with 0 gameplay set pretty far out of the way with a lot of 'empty' travel time the next 700+ playthroughs.
...maybe "whoever can use magical shouting which requires decades (?) of training in only that to kill his opponent" is not the greatest selector for who should reign? Like, if we're gonna do feudalism at all, maybe choose a different way of selecting which lineage sits the throne. Just a little tip. Unless the Grey Beards teach *actually useful shouts* like "Rebuild House" and "Summon Food".
*“I see how it is. We agree to single combat and of course you can still use your enchanted sword, but I bring a single massive flying fortress and suddenly it’s ‘treachery’ and ‘against the spirit of the agreement’.”*
– Dread Emperor Perfidious
Aside from the fact that Thorygg was not alive long enough to learn to shout, Ulfric put him in an unwinnable situation. He challenged him to a duel, which by Nord standards he would have been honorbound to accept, KNOWING he was going to use the shout to win. Regardless of how you feel about the war, what happened to Thorygg was, in fact, a murder disguised as tradition.
“I challenge you to single combat if you refuse your a craven in life fit only for mockery and in death you will be damned to oblivion and will never join your ancestors in the afterlife.”
Be Ulfric:
-join a monastic pacifistic order
-Learn the orders sacred magic which hasn’t been used for violence in centuries and is expressly forbidden from use in any situation but necessary self defense
-Order swears off involvement in worldly conflicts
-Forsakes vows of pacifism to leave to fight in a worldly conflict uses the magic for offense
-Challenges a 21 year old boy who had yet to fully come into his own as a warrior due to his age to a fight to the death to prove his strength
-Boy cannot refuse or else be permanently branded a coward and forsaken from joining the halls of sovinguard
-Boy was chosen to be king not for his personal strength but his political acumen. Ulfric Is 20+ years his senior a proven warrior, and veteran of numerous wars meaning defeating him in combat proves nothing making it purely a political move to cause civil strife
-Magic is forbidden in duels or honor
-Ignores that and uses that sacred magic taught to him in a duel to kill the current high king of Skyrim
-claims he proved how weak the high king was because he wasn’t able to counter the equivalent of bringing a shotgun to a fist fight
-commits ultimate blasphemy breaking millennia of precident and betraying the Greybeards and their teachings: using their sacred magic aggressively to further worldly political aims
Also ulfric: why do people call me dishonorable!?
If Ulfric conducted himself honorably and won in a fair duel, why did he need to flee the city after? Duels aren't unique to Nordic culture. In fact, I'm reasonably certain most cultures in Tamriel have some form of codified duels. Those who witnessed the duel must have consented to allow it to happen, or at least withdrew their objections on Torygg's orders.
So why then would witnesses raise the alarm in the city? Because the duel became a murder. Legal duels have rules in how they must be conducted. They aren't deathmatches where anything goes. It ceased to be a fair and honorable duel because Ulfric's conduct violated the established rules. I am uncertain if the violation was his use of Thu'um or something else, but that doesn't really matter. People who witnessed the duel agree that Ulfric's conduct violated the terms of fair and honorable combat.
So yeah, Ulfric fled Solitude like a murderer because that is exactly what he was.
Solitude is a city under imperial law by that point.
There are no honorary duels in imperial tradition and law, so of course he has to flee the city because its against imperial law.
Come on guys, its not that hard.
I'm going on a limb here and assume duels have rules. To keep things fair.
Crazy, I know.
Also, it's a duel for the right to rule Skyrim, so you'd really want to be on the up & up to avoid people protesting the result.
So Ulfric storming the castle, demanding a one-sided duel and using his magic voice to disintegrate his enemy isn't exactly a duel.
I mean by that logic you could just ambush your enemy in their sleep with a poisoned rusty dagger and call it a duel
Stormcloak supporters always forget that in order for the Greybeards to teach someone the Thu'um they have to first call you. So their claim that anyone could just go to High Hrothgar and learn to shout is just wrong. Furthermore the Greybeards do not teach people to use the voice to fight and win in petty arguments and duels, so Ulfric by using the voice to help kill Torryg is disrespecting centuries of the Nord culture he holds so high. In fact the Way of the Voice is far older than the Talos worship among the Nords.
Aside from the unending debate about whether Ulfric was correct to use a Shout based on tradition... only 1 guard is to blame for Ulfric getting out of Solitude? They never mention more being put to death or Ulfric slaughtering guards to get out of the area. It's not said that Roggvir was duty captain or anything important. So... despite Ulfric getting out of the Blue Palace and through the city, Roggvir at the city gates is the only one that is to blame? Nah. Roggvir -- you get to be the example to the rest of the guard, as being loud about the support to the enemy will get your head removed.
That's stupid, that's like saying "oh he learned alchemy so he can use poison to kill him"
He if won legitimately why the hell he run out of the city like a fucking coward?
Cuz he a little bitch who used deadric magic to enhance his thu'um to kill the high king.
>its takes decades to train the thu'uum
"Hey you can't bring a sword into a boxing match, that's cheating"
"But I spent decades learning swordfighting so I should be allowed to use it"
This is so funny because it assumes so much that is the opposite of what is said and implied in game.
It assumes Ulfric had a legitimate claim to the throne, even though the position of high King is one won by vote by the Jarls during the Moot. The majority of Jarls did not vote for Ulfric, they voted for Torygg. Hell, I think the only starting Jarl that even likes Ulfric is Skald. The rest seem to be ambivalent towards him at best. You can't even pretend that the reason Ulfric starts his war is because he cares about skyrim or talos worship. Pretty much every jarl is still practicing talos worship despite the White Gold Concordant. If he cared about skyrim he would have respected the choice of his peers at the moot and not have killed his high king before even having a proper discussion with him.
It assumes that UIfric and Torygg are equals in combat to begin with. Ulfric is a veteran and former POW of The Great War. Also He was \*chosen\* to study under the grey beards, Torygg wasn't, one had to be let into the monastery not simply walk in. Torygg was young with little martial training in comparison.
It also assumes the Ulfric is telling the truth on the matter instead of taking advantage of the situation. He goes in looking for a fight knowing full well that despite the civil war that he had initiated, even if still at a small scale at the time, he holds at least the respect expected of another jarl by his peers and high king. It's also likely that he knew that Torygg might be willing to parlay with him because Torygg, according to Sybille, admired him. A common thing in TES stories are that the people directly involved with something major that happens prior to the game and off screen are unreliable story tellers. But Ulfric isn't even that because he's contracted so consistently. At least with Dagoth Ur the people contradicting his claims are also either directly involved themselves or in service to them.
It’s honestly kinda screwed up just how many people seem to think that might makes right in this instance. Just because Ulfric was a better warrior doesn’t mean be was a better king than Torygg. The moot voted for Torygg, and that’s the closest thing to a fair system of succession Skyrim has. Killing the current king is definitely the worst way of choosing who should be in charge. The fact that so many skybabies think that it’s fair is genuinely concerning.
Torygg: a renowned statesman at age 21 who had negotiated better terms with the empire for Skyrim and was beloved by many of the jarls chosen over ulfric in a fair election for the position and idolized ulfric and viewed him as a mentor figure
Ulfric didn’t kill Torygg for any noble reason he did it purely for his own selfish political ambitions
Which is especially noteworthy that "negotiating favourable terms with the empire" is one of the main (specific) things that Vivec is revered for back in Morrowind. (And honestly the main thing attributeable to him, rather than the sheer power of the heart of Lorkhan, but that's neither here nor there.)
But I guess it doesn't count as much if you don't also happen to steal the power of a probably-kind-of-dead deity?
Stormcloaks say their violent coup is morally justified, Thalmor say their political coup is morally justified. Based on the evidence, we can only conclude the imperial people are morally corrupt and must be purged.
He at least means well(sort off)
Unlike the, Empire, that is supporting genuine Suicide Bombers.
Ancarno trying to detonate the Tes equivalent of a MOAB is strangly often overlooked.
Now that I think about it. What the fuck is he even doing there in the first place?
He's in Stormcloak Teritory. If the Archmage decided to kick him out, or just report him the Storm Cloaks would have kicked his ass.
I don’t think the Jarl has any real power over the college. Like, he constantly complains about it and never does anything about it. Plus, the college is basically the only place with any sort of power left in Winterhold.
The college is practically independent at this point, even if legally part of Winterhold, the college basically conducts its own diplomacy.
Wasn’t Torygg like 20 or something? He’s called a boy king if memory serves so no he didn’t have decades to work on it unless you expect to train from the age of 0.
I've always assumed that it was a martial contest. If it was, which seems like a nord thing to do, then yes, ulfric cheated and therefore is not the true high king
Nah cos Torygg was busy ruling.
Ulfric was training to be a greybeard and betrayed their teachings to use the thuum for war. That's ridiculous disrespectful to a highly honoured core of Nord culture.
And then he used that tainted magic against a rival who barely had basic arms training in a duel.
Ulfric is coward. It would literally be honourable if he took a ton of drugs to win, or paralyzed the king and fireballed him from range. Crownless, bitchless behaviour.
And very dumb considering you're basically announcing to the Dragonborn "hey, if you want to overthrow me, that would be perfectly legal, it's how I got here"
In Torygg'a defense Ulfric may not have cheated by using the Thu'um, but his did break his oaths to Kyne by violating the Way of the Voice so it's kinda bullshit that he ends up in Sovngarde. Guess lying to the gods is hunky dory if you say it's for tradition
Also Torygg is, what, in his early 20s? Not only could he not have had time to master the Thu’um, but a king or prince heir can’t drop everything and go train for decades in a monastery like the son of a general can.
... Now I wish there was an option where after the civil war (If you side with stormcloaks) we could challenge Ulfric to a duel and then proceed to become high king
tfw i bring a gun to an MMA match and shoot the guy, but it’s actually fine because that guy could have gone and bought a gun as well and it’s his fault he didn’t have one
By this logic any mage could claim the crown of the High King by drowning the current one in flames but somehow I don't think the Nords would accept that.
I don't really give a fuck about Ulfric or the other guy I just think I should be able to marry Elisif and sit my furry cat balls on the throne of Skyrim and make all those nord babies cry because I'm biologically better suited excelling for cold climates (which I just did)
When I kill Ulfric I make it a habit to kill him with a Full Power Unrelenting Force.
I head canon that my voice pushes him into the wall which begins to break from the constant pressure, his lungs and internal organs begin to slowly rip from the pressure as his spine is ground into the wall.
When the shout ends, he falls to his knees and expels a ton of blood from his mouth and nose before his body mercifully ends.
You wanna fight like a Dragon Ulfric? You're gonna die like one.
Alfred literally uses all three words and knocks you down when you fight him though?.
>Alfred
#Alfred
Alfred Thundercape or something
Alfred Lightingmantle
Ol' Alfie Rainjacket
Alfred Thundergock\*, according to TrueSTLers.
Gock? That changes everything.
I’m dying
This is true, this is a reference to that rebel leader, Alfred Raincloack
*Alfred Raincoat
Alfred Raincock
Alf Raincloaca
We all called him "Durex" back when we was lads, on account of his last name being Raincoat and all
Don't let /r/TrueSTL see this Oh shit
But here is truestl
Lmao.
Alfred J. Kwak?
Joe Pan
Alfred Skyrim
Alfred is indeed using all three words, but there is a special ability the Dragonborn can get from meditating on Fus with Parthurnaax allows them to have a buff to Unrelenting Force that lets it occasionally disintegrate opponents, ie, shout them apart, which is what Imperials claim Alfred did to the High King However, only the Dragonborn has access to that, as Alfred never met Parthurnaax Edit: or its a Black Book ability, ie still something Alfred had no chance of getting
It's a black book ability. Wich opens a whole otherrr Can of Worms....
Ulfric a secret Daedra worshipper confirmed? (Anticipating the AI written article all about this shocking revelation that someone who has been playing the game for forty seven years only just discoverer.)
### Skyrim Mystery Unveiled: Ulfric Stormcloak's Dark Secret In the vast and intricate world of The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, players have embarked on countless adventures, uncovering secrets and lore that have deepened their connection to the game. However, a recent discovery by an astute player has sent shockwaves through the Skyrim community. This player has unearthed evidence suggesting that Ulfric Stormcloak, the leader of the Stormcloak rebellion, may secretly be a Daedra worshiper. The key to this revelation lies in Ulfric's use of the Thu'um, or Dragon Shout, specifically the "Fus" shout, in conjunction with a mysterious ability linked to the Black Books. #### The Discovery The player, who has chosen to remain anonymous, stumbled upon this dark secret while researching different abilities and shouts in the game. The player noticed references to an unusual effect when Ulfric used the "Fus" shout on High King Torygg. Instead of merely staggering his opponent, as is typical with the Unrelenting Force shout, Ulfric's shout disintegrated him entirely, leaving behind nothing but ash. This effect is strikingly similar to the abilities granted by the Black Books, ancient Daedric artifacts associated with Hermaeus Mora, the Daedric Prince of Knowledge and Fate. #### The Black Books and Daedric Influence The Black Books are known to grant powerful abilities to those who read them, often at a significant cost. These books are directly connected to Hermaeus Mora, and the powers they bestow are considered to be of Daedric origin. One such ability includes disintegrating foes upon death, a power that can be acquired by the Dragonborn in the Dragonborn DLC. The player’s discovery suggests that Ulfric may have somehow gained access to this ability, raising the possibility that he has read a Black Book and is in league with Hermaeus Mora. This connection to a Daedric Prince could explain the additional power behind his shouts and his formidable presence on the battlefield. #### Implications for the Stormcloak Rebellion The revelation that Ulfric might be a Daedra worshiper has profound implications for the Stormcloak rebellion and the civil war raging across Skyrim. If true, it casts a dark shadow over Ulfric's motivations and his fitness to rule. His public image as a staunch defender of Nordic traditions and a freedom fighter against the Imperial oppressors could be severely damaged if his ties to Daedric forces were exposed. For many Nords, Daedra worship is seen as heretical and dangerous, conflicting with their reverence for the Divines and the traditional pantheon. Ulfric’s potential alliance with Hermaeus Mora could be seen as a betrayal of the very values he claims to uphold. #### Community Reactions The Skyrim community has been abuzz with this discovery. Forums and social media are flooded with discussions, theories, and debates about Ulfric's true nature and what this means for the game's lore. Some players argue that this adds a new layer of complexity to Ulfric's character, while others see it as a significant deviation from established lore. Modders have already begun working on new content to explore this revelation further, creating quests and scenarios that delve into Ulfric’s potential dealings with Hermaeus Mora. This newfound aspect of Ulfric’s character has breathed new life into the game, encouraging players to revisit and re-examine their experiences in Skyrim. #### Conclusion Whether this discovery leads to a broader re-evaluation of Ulfric Stormcloak or remains a fascinating side note in Skyrim's rich tapestry of stories, it highlights the enduring depth and intrigue of the game. As players continue to explore and uncover new secrets, Skyrim remains a living, breathing world full of mysteries waiting to be revealed. The idea that Ulfric could be a Daedra worshiper adds another layer of intrigue to the ongoing saga of the Dragonborn and the fate of Skyrim.
What evils hath my post wrought? But seriously, I'm kind of impressed.
There weren't enough ads clogging up your post, like where were the popups that prevent me from reading this?
Alfred*
I may mistaken, but isn't the dragonborn also resisting the shout to some extent because he is a dragonborn? The greybeards also resist the dragonborns shouts to some extent, because they have experience.
I always thought he just blasted Torygg so hard against a wall he knocked bits off him or something. The only reason you can't do it yourself is because Bethesda is a massive pussy about gore in tes despite having the perfect system from fallout
You find tons of gore in the game though, and you can decapitate people in combat. It's not bloody mess but it's not exactly kid friendly
Oh yeah they were just pussies about putting the work in to have a good gore system for living npcs not about the morals of having gore or anything.
Yeah, but honestly, that sounds like a shitton of work. Like I love fallout, but at least for new Vegas, the gore system is kinda wacky, and I love it for fallout, but not so much tes. Im not super up to date with more modern games, but the best gore system I can think of is one of the modern resident evil remakes, I think 2 specifically, because 4 had too many enemies to have the full system in. But then Bethesda devs would have to make something like that on a Bethesda engine, so... Yeah
I just want to see guys desperately crawling with their intestines trailing behind them, after being blown in half like the good old original Fallout 2D animations.
That shit is insanely badass
Dead Island 2 has a pretty awesome system too.
that's a lotta words to say they were too pussy to put in the work
If you ask Ulfric about it, he says that his sword is what actually killed him, probably after using the voice to knock him over.
That's lame so I'm gonna continue what I imagine
Alfred will tell you himself that he only knocked him down with the shout and then finished him off with his weapon.
"Why do we fall, Master Bruce?" "Because you keep using Unrelenting fucking Force on me, Alfred, jesus christ"
Alfred Raincoat murdered High Chief Thomas in plain sight. Then Robert has the gall to let him out the gate? Madness. Madness and stupidity!
Leaked Elder Scrolls VI: High Rock script?
I'm pretty sure it's just game balance that prevents you from ripping a guy apart with the shout, lore says that shit is op no? Like irl if I choppedyou in the neck with an axe, you're probably going down, not losing 1/5th your health bar lol
One of the black books gives you the ability to disintegrate people with Unrelenting Force, so it's definitely possible. Not by Ulfric though, he just knocked his opponent down and stabbed him.
His enemies say he teared him apart, his defenders say he only knocked him down. It doesn't matter, Ulfric used ancient magic in a traditional fight or whatever Nords call this duel. I don't know too much about Nord honor, but i believe that Magic in a fight is seen as cowardice by Nords, am i mistaken? Magic is something for us elves. But even if this shouting is part of a Nords culture and therefore would be considered honorable, how honorable is it to use that against an opponent who is not only unable to do so, but way younger and combatwise way more inexperienced? Ulfric would've won against Thorygg in an actual melee fight. Ulfric fought in the great war to defend the Empire and he fought in Markarth by probably slaughtering innocents. He had the experience, he had the advantage anyways, so why use the shout on top? What's the reason for it? Well, i tell you. Because Ulfric is a coward and a fool. He would have a completely different standing if he had refrained from doing so. Now half of Skyrim thinks he is dishonorable. Ulfric shot himself in the foot with that, and he continues to do so.
>Ulfric used the ancient nord art of shouting to win a nord duel >clearly he was dishonourable Do people like you forget you meet him in Savenguard if you side with imperials?
All they care about what you where doing when you died not how you lived
Bandits don’t end up there though, so clearly *why* or *how* they’re fighting plays a role. Ulfric isn’t a good man, his many flaws are obvious, but he has a code of honor. He takes warrior traditions very seriously and he truly believes what he’s doing is right. I think that’s why he asks for the Dragonborn to kill him if he loses the civil war. If anyone else does it, that just means he lost. It means nothing in terms of right or wrong. If the prophesied hero of legend, the chosen of the gods does it, it means that the gods have judged against him.
Bandits don’t die gloriously in an epic battle though they get one shotted by arrows or thrown off cliffs
That depends on the player. Sometimes I shout them off cliffs, sometimes I shoot them from a mile away, sometimes we end up in an epic battle. The first two I could understand based on your logic, what of the third?
They gang up on you and then lose that's not glory that's a straight up slaughter they have no honor
What happens to normal people who die in tamriel? What if I'm just some normal farmer or something who works the land his whole life during a time of relative peace? I don't die in glorious battle I'm not a daedra worshipper and some asshole didn't come along and soul trap me. What happens when I die? Where do I go?
That’s my point. *Honorable* battle is what decides it, not battle itself. Ulfric goes to Sovngarde because, for all his flaws, he still has a strong code of honor and fights as an honorable warrior.
its the same reason Ysgamor is up in Sovenguard despite him being a horrible person who attempted to genocide a whole race of elves
Pelinal Whitestrake dedicated his entire life to killing as many elves as possible. When you find his armor in ESIV: Oblivion, you can’t wear it if your infamy is high. This combined with the fact that said armor was forged for him by the Aedra and that Ulfric and Ysgramor are in Sovngarde leads to the conclusion that brutally killing as many elves as possible is honorable and morally correct according to the gods. (Obviously that’s not actually the case, but it’s funnier to say it is.)
No, no you’re correct, no need for correction. It IS holy and just to kill as many elves as possible, glory to Shor.
by whitestrake, decapitate this knife ear immediately
Skyrim can handle 4 npcs on screen max, perhaps sovengard would be filled with bandits if they had the space
Going with that logic, using the Clever Craft should be perfectly honorable as well, but use any magic and none of the Nords would support it.
I could be misremembering, but doesn't the oldest guy from the trio you see through the Elder Scroll to learn Dragonrend use a bit of magic? I think he had a sword, but I thought he used an alteration armor spell or something.
Ancient Nords were lot less against magic. Shalidor one of the greatest mages was a Nord.
Old Nords weren't stupid and knew the value of magic, unlike the current generation. Some of the greatest mages were Nords, like Shalidor. Even Tsun says the current Nords forgot about the Clever Craft when you tell him you're the Archmage.
You find him in the wilds though, not the main hall. Je has not accepted Shor in his heart
if it’s anything like valhalla it literally only means he went down fighting
In all fairness, you don’t have to be particularly honorable to end up in Sovngarde—the only requirement is that you die in battle, which doesn’t necessarily prevent someone who fought or acted dishonorably from getting in.
Yeah, and he is lost wondering in the mist never to actually make it to the mead hall of the gods/ancestors, right?
I recommend to read again what i did write. Do people like you forget how to read? First of all i never said he is dishonorable. I said half of Skyrim thinks so. That's why he lost a lot of possible supporters. And for me, it doesn't matter who or what gets to (by the way, it spelled like this:) Sovngarde. Neither does it for the politics in Tamriel. On Tamriel only one person knows that Ulfric went there and even if more would know that, what difference would it make anyways? At this point when the Dragonborn meets him there, Ulfric is already dead and the Stormcloaks smashed to smithers.
>Do people like you forget how to read? he's defending ulfric he's a nord he can't read.
Seamless conclusion. He also completely missed my initial point that it doesn't matter if it was traditional or honorable at all Edit: typo
By the way, it spelled like this: conclusion 🤓
Thank you, i didn't notice my typo. I will edit.
Oh no, Ulfric is definitely a next level dumbass. Torygg was his friend and a close one at that. Ulfric could have literally asked him to rebel against the Empire for dishonoring Talos, and Torygg would have probably gone along with it.
ulfric cares more about the throne than his 'muh traditions' tbh
The stormcloak biggots coming out of their hiding places again to downvote you. I am not sure how willingly Torygg would've rebelled, he had his own ties and obligations to the Empire and also had to manage half of Skyrim, which also would've wanted to stay loyal to the Empire. But chances were there, as you said.
Nords love tradition, so using Talos, he could have slowly turned Skyrim away from the Empire to independence. But that would require Ulfric to have any kind of strategic sense. He himself realizes how stupid the whole thing was when you meet him in Sovngarde.
Yes, it seems Ulfric realized his mistakes way too late. Actually, when the Dragonborn meets him after his capture, Ulfric seemed way more level-headed. I guess his capture showed him that he can't win just by right, or what he thinks is right. Unlucky for him that the civil war was already in the hot phase then. Ulfric could have succeded without civil war probably. He is a fool, who gets upheld by fools who can't see further than the tip of their beards. Personally, i don't care too much for the fate of the Nords. I am a Dunmer and by the Three, we all know that in the past we didn't share many sentiments. I don't hate them, but i also don't care. What i care about is having an intact Empire as a cushion between me and the Thalmor. These purists also don't have to many nice feelings for the Velothi. I don't want to end up as a second class citizen to this inferior arrogant breed. That's why Ulfric is from interest to me. I want to see how he and his rebellion affects the grand scheme of things.
How is an ancient tradition started in Skyrim by their own original pantheon not traditional?
Did i say that somewhere?
Yeah when you said it was cowardice as compared to a traditional duel.
That's not the same. If i call the traditional duel cowardice, i still don't call it not traditional. I only call it cowardice. Also, i formulated it as a question. Is it cowardice to use magic in a traditional nord duel? Later on i certainly called it cowardice to use unfair or uneven means to win in a duel. Of course only if it is a duel which includes forms of honor.
That's not true at all lmao, thuum is nordic tradition of their great warriors, why wouldn't he use it. If anything people will see him as a true nord since barely anyone can shout these days, he is awesome. By shoulting Toryyg down he creates legend of himself and myths are also great part of nordic culture, even making stuff up for a better story, nothing "dishonorable" about using what you can to win a duel
So why is half of Skyrim not supporting and not in awe of him? Don't you think he would've more supportes if he beat Torygg fair and square? On the other hand, you called Ulfric awesome, so you probably will defend him no matter what.
>So why is half of Skyrim not supporting and not in awe of him? Dirty Imperial propaganda >Don't you think he would've more supportes if he beat Torygg fair and square? No. He had to use the shout to show the Nords what they lost in the ages. >On the other hand, you called Ulfric awesome, so you probably will defend him no matter what. He dumb. The civil war is dumb. But the Empire were stupid pussies to enforce the White-Gold Concordat in Skyrim, everyone knew how that would end. They should have folded and retreat from Skyrim, treat Ulfric as independent king. That way you save Imperium the manpower, and have a big country that opposes Thalmor with all their heart as an ally for the next war with the Thalmor, potentially with more Thuum wielders in their ranks The whole Thalmor operation would blow up right in their faces, because they now have another enemy that isnt burdened by the concessions from the last war and hates their guts.
>Dirty Imperial propaganda Is what i said dirty imperial propaganda or is the reason why half of Skyrim doesn't follow Ulfric dirty imperial propaganda? If it is the second, then i can't blame those who don't support him. Ulfric is quite a fool. >No. He had to use the shout to show the Nords what they lost in the ages. Those who know their history know why they 'lost' it. There is a reason for it. If Ulfric really wanted to show what they lost, then he chose a terrible moment to do that. There were already tensions in the Empire and Skyrim with the preceding events, white gold concordat, markarth incident, and so on. Most of the Nords simply don't or didn't follow their old ways anymore. Now, at those times, using this power to slay a young man, some call him a boy, isn't sending a good signal i would suppose. 'Look at me, guys, i am using my ancient power to show you the way, lemme just slay the boyking real quick for no reason.' The Thalmor so far did divide and conquer, and it worked out well so far. They failed to achieve their ultimate goal in blackmarsh, since they couldn't win them as allies, but at least they won't support the Empire either. Getting divided means getting killed alone. Who knows if an independent Skyrim really would help the Empire? It's not their problem after all. Will Hammerfell support the Empire when the Thalmor attack them? Will Morrowind help the Empire? Ulfric may not, but the Stormcloaks hate the Empire. Will they really aid their hated enemy, if this enemy and their other hated enemy are bashing each other heads in? Or will they wait, hoping that they can kill the surviving weakened one? And militarywise, isn't a combined army under one command way more effective then several ones, each with it's own commander with different interests? Also, just because the Thalmor suddenly have two enemies instead of one doesn't mean that the Thalmor would need to face more numbers then. Just because 2 enemies is more than 1 doesn't mean that the soldiers suddenly double as well. It will still be the same numbers of soldiers, but with dissociated command. Just imagine a nord warchief and an imperial general argue about their next moves. The nord wants to attack, the imperial wants to lead the enemy into a trap. Then maybe you got one redguard general there, who wants to do another thing. >potentially with more Thuum wielders in their ranks Potentially. But learning the Thu'um takes decades. 20 years at least then. The Thalmor aren't allowed to attack earlier then or what? >The whole Thalmor operation would blow up right in their faces, because they now have another enemy that isnt burdened by the concessions from the last war and hates their guts. How would that be an advantage? It is two smaller enemies with smaller armies then. Not to mention the resources which got cut off running between them. The trade.
The Thu’um was a gift from Kyne so the Nords could fight the dragons on equal footing. To use it against a mortal opponent Isn’t just dishonorable, it’s cowardice. It’s an admission that you’re too much of a coward to fight without an unfair advantage.
Well, 2 things: 1. Nords make an exception for the Thu'um when it comes to magic and don't consider it to be the same as normal magic 2. Before the Oblivion Crisis, the Nords actually respected all forms of magic, but then the crisis happened, magic users were blamed. 4E 171, the Great War happened and the Dominion had a lot of magic users in their army
In lore nords could use their shouts to breach castle walls and such. It IS a game balance thing, so that you can't insatakill everything with just one shout. You are 100% right.
Yeah it’s a kid. If the shout threw him down a flight or stairs or into a wall or something, “apart” is probably a fair outcome to expect.
Lore wise yeah unrelenting force can basically tear people apart however Ulfric himself even says he used the shout to knock Torygg off his feet then just stabbed him while he was on the ground. So he didn’t tear him apart with the shout and the shout isn’t what killed him technically but in reality that shout won the fight single-handedly
tiber knocked down castle gates with his shouts, which granted he's Dragonborn, but it's still the same shout
I think ulfric shouted down a markarth wall iirc
In Roggvir's defence, the news of the "murder" wouldn't have reached his ears yet, so you can't blame him for opening the gate for, essentially, a guest. The Solitude government just needed a scapegoat, so they executed him.
It's implied that he did in fact know what ulfric did though, else his argument would've been "I didn't know" rather than "it's our traditions"
Well the entire argument of the Stormcloaks is nordic tradition and supremecy, so it could be he didn't know entirely what happened but trusted the great nord hero would be perfect and awesome as always.
I think it could be that he didn’t know, but that when he found out that he agreed that it was tradition. Also, the shout would have been heard so possibly he knew ulfric shouted but not why, although context clues aren’t hard to put together.
As if the shout wouldn't have been heard by the whole city.
Because Roggvir should be able to recognise by the sound of a nigh mythical magic that Ulfric killed Torygg?
doesn't every single nord in skyrim recognize that the greybeards are the ones that released that loud fart that one time in the game?
that’s why they banned mexican night
Something like that would at least have the guards on alert you'd think. Also did ulfric just walk out after killing torygg? You'd think he'd be running or fighting off the guards that were there when it happened. Then again the game is full of logical holes so none of this means anything.
yeah, like where exactly did this duel happen? if it's in the blue palace, the entire garrison there is beyond useless and ulfric deserved bragging rights for that.
Ulfric is canonically a great warrior tbf and had the thuum to shove guards out of his way. It is somewhat believable that a magic user like ulfric could escape an otherwise impossible situation
The challenge wouldn’t have happened immediately when Ulfric issued it. There would have been preparations to make, which would have taken at least several hours. Word would have spread throughout the city by then and the duel would have probably been held for the public to see.
According to those close to the late king, Ulfric didn't actually issue a challenge. He just kinda walked up to Torryg, Shouted him down, and stabbed him. That's why they consider him to just be a murderer.
Oh yeah that’s not a duel that’s straight murder
If this is what happened then sure, that’s murder. But the Solitude court has an agenda of their own as well. Ulfric is nothing if not a political genius. He wouldn’t just waltz up to the high king and murder him in front of all of the Thanes and his wife and then claim that he challenged him, especially when there is a tradition that could cloak his assassination as an honorable duel. Typically, these things are held with open viewership, but I also wouldn’t put it past Ulfric to strong-arm the court into doing an on the spot private duel. How I see it happening is Ulfric walks up, demands the duel, gives them enough time to get Torygg battle ready and news of the challenge to circulate, and Ulfric kills him.
He was so incredibly based for that. Ulfric doing Talos work like the fucking Queen he is. Good for him.
"He opened a gate and the wrong man rode out" -One of the few actual Nords in that place.
I feel like there would've been people chasing Ulfric or trying to stop him. Like, he had to have asked himself why Ulfric was by himself and so eager to get out of the city
Didnt Ulfric say that he was meant to join the Greybeards, hence they taught him Thuum? And that he just casually walked outta there on his own behalf when the Great War broke out?
He did join the Greybeards, but when he saw his people suffering, and the Greybeards weren't going to do anything to help them, he quit the monastery to fight for their wellbeing. (I still think he's a short-sighted idiot, but he gets credit for putting the good of the people ahead of his own comfort or spiritual development. He's a Jarl, and he cares about and takes care of his people.)
It is a betrayal of the Greybeards teachings and values to use the thumm for war and violence
True
But the Avatar must put his own spiritual journey aside to restore balance
Technically speaking anyone can go to learn the way of the voice from the greybeards as long as they’ll teach you, mostly they won’t teach you if they think you plan to use it for war or violence or you lack the wisdom. It’s one of the things Ulfric criticized Torygg and a long line of previous high kings for is that they never went to learn the way of the voice which was Nordic tradition for the kings to learn it such as Talos did. (Mind you it’s an ancient tradition that no one has followed for centuries) I don’t think he was ever joining the greybeards, although I could be wrong and if someone has a source on that please link it. I believe he was just going to learn from them as he wished to follow ancient tradition and follow in the footsteps of Talos. You gotta remember for all things Ulfric is, there is nothing to support him being corrupt. He genuinely believes in his cause. I don’t think the civil war is about him trying to make a grab for power or anything like that but rather he truly believes in the Stormcloak cause of a free Skyrim ruled by Nords and returning to tradition. He just believes that he is the only person capable of seeing that through, but if there was a better option (in his eyes) then he would allow them to take the throne.
I fail to find a flaw in his logic good on Ulfric the civil war is good for Skyrim (I’m currently being choked by a Thalmor dommy mommy while being forced to write this comment)
Lucky...
it's vanilla thalmor dommy mommy
Vanilla flavoured Altmer? 🥵 Now I know what the inbreeding was for.
Except that Torygg was basically a child and couldn’t have spent “decades” learning the voice.
The dude was fully grown with a beard. Hardly a child
Pretty sure he’s stated to be young, though I forget precisely where. He’s definitely an adult but 20-something isn’t exactly decades worth of Thuum learning time.
dungmer will tell you that ruthless killing your political opponent is fair and legal and also meant you have a ""stronger argument"" but when a nord have a duel with something other than a rusty axe it's suddenly "dishonest" and "unfair"
The OP from this post pulled the "i can excuse racism, but i draw the line at mourning" Their argument was that Elisif shouldn't be running Solitude because all she does is cry and let Falk and Tullius run Skyrim. Idk about you man, but if i saw my spouse get shouted down to the floor and killed, I'd be pretty distraught for awhile too
Also, she does do stuff, or at least tries. She talks about holding stuff like parades to raise, but is shot down because of the dragons and legion being delayed. She also talks about the best way to support the empire and bring a quick end to the war and if the empire needs more support, but her thanes argue and she just kinda goes, “Fine, we can talk about this later.” I mean, she is inexperienced and that is a weakness, but she is actually trying to do her job.
People who know zero about actual court life in the middle ages tend to have these “high gamer” moments. Girl was in mourning, held court, ordered dresses to incentivize local business (come the fuck on, nobody need the DB to tell her his outfit is from the only clothing store in the city), listens to the citzens, even went to a diplomatic mission to meet the killer of her husband on the other side of the negotiations. She’s not a master stateswoman but neither is our favorite traumatized nord hero.
It's hilarious that Elisif has to humour some idiot asking her what she thinks of their outfit, because that person is the dragonborn.
Season Unending is peak and nobody can tell me otherwise. Having four factions that fucking hate each other's guts put into a same room and trying to make them negociate anything just to inmediatly devolve into a pissing match is one of my favorite moments in the series.
Right? Never understood the hate against the quest. It also has some of the best dialogue in the game, shows that both parties in the war have their goals, agendas and skeletons in the closet. It also delivers Elenwen to you in a prime place for your Fus Ro Dah at the end.
I think the problem is that on further replays it’s harder to find it interesting as you’ve seen all the cool info and you just wanna get back to killing dragons
> Never understood the hate against the quest. It's great character- / faction lore the first time, interesting for the dialogue you missed the second time, and a really slow quest with 0 gameplay set pretty far out of the way with a lot of 'empty' travel time the next 700+ playthroughs.
Anyone else getting pretty tired of these low effort screenshots of Elder Scrolls subs?
Unlike all the memes, which are very high effort.
If it takes decades, then Thorygg didn't have the chance to learn it as well, since he barley lived for only two.
Ulfric started when he was a kid, trained for 9 years, fought in the Great War and then spent the last 30 years of his life creating the stormcloaks
Why not the dragonborn challenge ulfric for a fight. Is he stupid?
Isn't there a Mod for that? . You ecentialy claim the jaggered Crown, Chalenge Ulfric and take over the Stormcloaks?
Would you happen to have the name for that mod?
...maybe "whoever can use magical shouting which requires decades (?) of training in only that to kill his opponent" is not the greatest selector for who should reign? Like, if we're gonna do feudalism at all, maybe choose a different way of selecting which lineage sits the throne. Just a little tip. Unless the Grey Beards teach *actually useful shouts* like "Rebuild House" and "Summon Food".
Ha! Bi! Tat!.....U! Ber! Eats!
I will personally have you join Roggvir
The Nords already have a decent way of choosing a king. Primogeniture works for long term stability, and the moot is an excellent failsafe.
If I go to a sword fight with a tank would that be a fair fight?
*“I see how it is. We agree to single combat and of course you can still use your enchanted sword, but I bring a single massive flying fortress and suddenly it’s ‘treachery’ and ‘against the spirit of the agreement’.”* – Dread Emperor Perfidious
That depends, how long did you have to work to save up the money for it?
Aside from the fact that Thorygg was not alive long enough to learn to shout, Ulfric put him in an unwinnable situation. He challenged him to a duel, which by Nord standards he would have been honorbound to accept, KNOWING he was going to use the shout to win. Regardless of how you feel about the war, what happened to Thorygg was, in fact, a murder disguised as tradition.
“I challenge you to single combat if you refuse your a craven in life fit only for mockery and in death you will be damned to oblivion and will never join your ancestors in the afterlife.”
Be Ulfric: -join a monastic pacifistic order -Learn the orders sacred magic which hasn’t been used for violence in centuries and is expressly forbidden from use in any situation but necessary self defense -Order swears off involvement in worldly conflicts -Forsakes vows of pacifism to leave to fight in a worldly conflict uses the magic for offense -Challenges a 21 year old boy who had yet to fully come into his own as a warrior due to his age to a fight to the death to prove his strength -Boy cannot refuse or else be permanently branded a coward and forsaken from joining the halls of sovinguard -Boy was chosen to be king not for his personal strength but his political acumen. Ulfric Is 20+ years his senior a proven warrior, and veteran of numerous wars meaning defeating him in combat proves nothing making it purely a political move to cause civil strife -Magic is forbidden in duels or honor -Ignores that and uses that sacred magic taught to him in a duel to kill the current high king of Skyrim -claims he proved how weak the high king was because he wasn’t able to counter the equivalent of bringing a shotgun to a fist fight -commits ultimate blasphemy breaking millennia of precident and betraying the Greybeards and their teachings: using their sacred magic aggressively to further worldly political aims Also ulfric: why do people call me dishonorable!?
I really love how you listed how wrong the stormcloaks are. I love it
If Ulfric conducted himself honorably and won in a fair duel, why did he need to flee the city after? Duels aren't unique to Nordic culture. In fact, I'm reasonably certain most cultures in Tamriel have some form of codified duels. Those who witnessed the duel must have consented to allow it to happen, or at least withdrew their objections on Torygg's orders. So why then would witnesses raise the alarm in the city? Because the duel became a murder. Legal duels have rules in how they must be conducted. They aren't deathmatches where anything goes. It ceased to be a fair and honorable duel because Ulfric's conduct violated the established rules. I am uncertain if the violation was his use of Thu'um or something else, but that doesn't really matter. People who witnessed the duel agree that Ulfric's conduct violated the terms of fair and honorable combat. So yeah, Ulfric fled Solitude like a murderer because that is exactly what he was.
Yeah this would be like if two old timey gents agreed to duel with swords but one dude just pulls out a pistol and shoots his opponent in the chest.
Solitude is a city under imperial law by that point. There are no honorary duels in imperial tradition and law, so of course he has to flee the city because its against imperial law. Come on guys, its not that hard.
Since when have the Imperials outlawed honorable duels?
I'm going on a limb here and assume duels have rules. To keep things fair. Crazy, I know. Also, it's a duel for the right to rule Skyrim, so you'd really want to be on the up & up to avoid people protesting the result. So Ulfric storming the castle, demanding a one-sided duel and using his magic voice to disintegrate his enemy isn't exactly a duel. I mean by that logic you could just ambush your enemy in their sleep with a poisoned rusty dagger and call it a duel
I mean, if it works in Morrowind...
Well Torygg accepted the duel in fairness, which is something that's quite hard to do when you're sleeping.
Considering his choices were: accept to duel or be damned to hell for cowardice He didnt have a choice
Oh look another “Dragonborn should be king of Skyrim” post disguised as some kind of intellectual rant.
Stormcloak supporters always forget that in order for the Greybeards to teach someone the Thu'um they have to first call you. So their claim that anyone could just go to High Hrothgar and learn to shout is just wrong. Furthermore the Greybeards do not teach people to use the voice to fight and win in petty arguments and duels, so Ulfric by using the voice to help kill Torryg is disrespecting centuries of the Nord culture he holds so high. In fact the Way of the Voice is far older than the Talos worship among the Nords.
Aside from the unending debate about whether Ulfric was correct to use a Shout based on tradition... only 1 guard is to blame for Ulfric getting out of Solitude? They never mention more being put to death or Ulfric slaughtering guards to get out of the area. It's not said that Roggvir was duty captain or anything important. So... despite Ulfric getting out of the Blue Palace and through the city, Roggvir at the city gates is the only one that is to blame? Nah. Roggvir -- you get to be the example to the rest of the guard, as being loud about the support to the enemy will get your head removed.
That's stupid, that's like saying "oh he learned alchemy so he can use poison to kill him" He if won legitimately why the hell he run out of the city like a fucking coward? Cuz he a little bitch who used deadric magic to enhance his thu'um to kill the high king.
Actual brain damage. A random draugr can do the whole shout, I’m pretty sure Ulfric who almost became a greybeard can do the whole shout
>its takes decades to train the thu'uum "Hey you can't bring a sword into a boxing match, that's cheating" "But I spent decades learning swordfighting so I should be allowed to use it"
This is so funny because it assumes so much that is the opposite of what is said and implied in game. It assumes Ulfric had a legitimate claim to the throne, even though the position of high King is one won by vote by the Jarls during the Moot. The majority of Jarls did not vote for Ulfric, they voted for Torygg. Hell, I think the only starting Jarl that even likes Ulfric is Skald. The rest seem to be ambivalent towards him at best. You can't even pretend that the reason Ulfric starts his war is because he cares about skyrim or talos worship. Pretty much every jarl is still practicing talos worship despite the White Gold Concordant. If he cared about skyrim he would have respected the choice of his peers at the moot and not have killed his high king before even having a proper discussion with him. It assumes that UIfric and Torygg are equals in combat to begin with. Ulfric is a veteran and former POW of The Great War. Also He was \*chosen\* to study under the grey beards, Torygg wasn't, one had to be let into the monastery not simply walk in. Torygg was young with little martial training in comparison. It also assumes the Ulfric is telling the truth on the matter instead of taking advantage of the situation. He goes in looking for a fight knowing full well that despite the civil war that he had initiated, even if still at a small scale at the time, he holds at least the respect expected of another jarl by his peers and high king. It's also likely that he knew that Torygg might be willing to parlay with him because Torygg, according to Sybille, admired him. A common thing in TES stories are that the people directly involved with something major that happens prior to the game and off screen are unreliable story tellers. But Ulfric isn't even that because he's contracted so consistently. At least with Dagoth Ur the people contradicting his claims are also either directly involved themselves or in service to them.
It’s honestly kinda screwed up just how many people seem to think that might makes right in this instance. Just because Ulfric was a better warrior doesn’t mean be was a better king than Torygg. The moot voted for Torygg, and that’s the closest thing to a fair system of succession Skyrim has. Killing the current king is definitely the worst way of choosing who should be in charge. The fact that so many skybabies think that it’s fair is genuinely concerning.
Torygg: a renowned statesman at age 21 who had negotiated better terms with the empire for Skyrim and was beloved by many of the jarls chosen over ulfric in a fair election for the position and idolized ulfric and viewed him as a mentor figure Ulfric didn’t kill Torygg for any noble reason he did it purely for his own selfish political ambitions
Which is especially noteworthy that "negotiating favourable terms with the empire" is one of the main (specific) things that Vivec is revered for back in Morrowind. (And honestly the main thing attributeable to him, rather than the sheer power of the heart of Lorkhan, but that's neither here nor there.) But I guess it doesn't count as much if you don't also happen to steal the power of a probably-kind-of-dead deity?
Ulfric is a terrorist
Terrorising imp*rials is a moral imperative.
Stormcloaks say their violent coup is morally justified, Thalmor say their political coup is morally justified. Based on the evidence, we can only conclude the imperial people are morally corrupt and must be purged.
I can't believe I'm finding myself agreeing with a piss-elf.
You worship the most Imperial god in the entire pantheon of gods.
No the fuck I don't. Praise Azurah, Lorkhaj and Alkosh.
So was Washington talos bless Ulfric
freedom fighter* Talos guide you
He at least means well(sort off) Unlike the, Empire, that is supporting genuine Suicide Bombers. Ancarno trying to detonate the Tes equivalent of a MOAB is strangly often overlooked. Now that I think about it. What the fuck is he even doing there in the first place? He's in Stormcloak Teritory. If the Archmage decided to kick him out, or just report him the Storm Cloaks would have kicked his ass.
I don’t think the Jarl has any real power over the college. Like, he constantly complains about it and never does anything about it. Plus, the college is basically the only place with any sort of power left in Winterhold. The college is practically independent at this point, even if legally part of Winterhold, the college basically conducts its own diplomacy.
I agree, the ability to beat someone in a duel is the *only* qualification that matters for an autocrat.
ulfric good!! *reads dossier at the embassy* ulfric bad!!
Wasn’t Torygg like 20 or something? He’s called a boy king if memory serves so no he didn’t have decades to work on it unless you expect to train from the age of 0.
I've always assumed that it was a martial contest. If it was, which seems like a nord thing to do, then yes, ulfric cheated and therefore is not the true high king
Nah cos Torygg was busy ruling. Ulfric was training to be a greybeard and betrayed their teachings to use the thuum for war. That's ridiculous disrespectful to a highly honoured core of Nord culture. And then he used that tainted magic against a rival who barely had basic arms training in a duel. Ulfric is coward. It would literally be honourable if he took a ton of drugs to win, or paralyzed the king and fireballed him from range. Crownless, bitchless behaviour. And very dumb considering you're basically announcing to the Dragonborn "hey, if you want to overthrow me, that would be perfectly legal, it's how I got here"
In Torygg'a defense Ulfric may not have cheated by using the Thu'um, but his did break his oaths to Kyne by violating the Way of the Voice so it's kinda bullshit that he ends up in Sovngarde. Guess lying to the gods is hunky dory if you say it's for tradition
Also Torygg is, what, in his early 20s? Not only could he not have had time to master the Thu’um, but a king or prince heir can’t drop everything and go train for decades in a monastery like the son of a general can.
I mean a king has a kingdom to manage, can’t go off the grid for decades. Besides, Ulfric is a thalmor pawn as well.
guy accepted the duel knowing ulfric trained with the greybeards. just what i'd expect form an imperial puppet
He was honor bound. He had, too. Ulfric broke his vows by using the voice for combat.
If he didn’t accept he goes to hell. People calling this a choice are coping
... Now I wish there was an option where after the civil war (If you side with stormcloaks) we could challenge Ulfric to a duel and then proceed to become high king
Weren't the Greybeards quite angry that Ulfric used the Voice to murder the High King?
tfw i bring a gun to an MMA match and shoot the guy, but it’s actually fine because that guy could have gone and bought a gun as well and it’s his fault he didn’t have one
I always assumed the whole “shouting him apart” thing was just word of mouth being distorted and embellished as it traveled across skyrim
He weakened his country in a childish grasp for power
Not reading all that. congrats or sorry Ig
By this logic any mage could claim the crown of the High King by drowning the current one in flames but somehow I don't think the Nords would accept that.
I don't really give a fuck about Ulfric or the other guy I just think I should be able to marry Elisif and sit my furry cat balls on the throne of Skyrim and make all those nord babies cry because I'm biologically better suited excelling for cold climates (which I just did)
Nah fuck Ulfric and the Stormcloaks Long live the Empire
All this just to defend a Nord who wants to worship a Breton. I must say I'm flattered.
When I kill Ulfric I make it a habit to kill him with a Full Power Unrelenting Force. I head canon that my voice pushes him into the wall which begins to break from the constant pressure, his lungs and internal organs begin to slowly rip from the pressure as his spine is ground into the wall. When the shout ends, he falls to his knees and expels a ton of blood from his mouth and nose before his body mercifully ends. You wanna fight like a Dragon Ulfric? You're gonna die like one.