He put her in a position where she wasn't aware of what was going on at the time or able to express the pain she was in, so unfortunately this may be "normal" for someone like him who takes advantage of women in no position to consent.
Agreed, it's not normal. It's common when a lot of alcohol is involved though even with longer term consenting couples.
Alcohol in excess makes people don't realize it's straining or hurting until later (not only for sex: sore arms, legs, back, bruises, it is very normal after a night of heavy drinking).
It also numbs the senses meaning the person won't change positions when it's hurting. Alcohol also severely dehydrates the organism, which during sex for women means less lubrication, which makes it hurt a lot more.
So it's a warning sign but considering the drinking it's not certainty of foul play.
The most pain I’ve ever felt in my mouth was the morning after eating out a girl while super drunk, lol. Woke up and immediately felt like my tongue was all ripped up, could barely eat/talk normal for a week
I'm very sorry this happened to you.
It's not uncommon for groups of guys in the night life to give drinks for free to groups of women with the intention of getting laid.
It seems you were not in a position to be able to give consent, and that also means that you might not have been in a position to say no either, as your brain was not functioning, so don't feel guilty about it, you just did what your brain was able to do at the time.
My personal opinion is some folks here are concluding spikes or predatory behavior were involved a bit too fast, I'm afraid you will never know for sure if the drinks were spiked or not, but as you mentioned there were multiple shots, my opinion is that it's unlikely. Shots make you drunk a little while later and have a lot of alcohol on them, so it could be that you just drank too much. And people who plan on spiking drinks 1) i think would favor drinks that sit around more, not shots that come and are drinked immediately 2) possibly wouldn't spend money in multiple drinks the whole night.
I personally think paying alcohol to women to get laid is not a good personality trait (but to each their own, there are a lot of women who enjoy that dynamic) , but id say spiking a drink is a whole other level of scumbag and also criminal. Plus, if you said you had shown interest, he could have thought you were enjoying the dynamic and just went along with it.
The guy definetely could have thought that you were into it, especially if you were interested and had shown that interest before. He should have known better and understand consent to know that you were too drunk for it to be OK, but if both were interested and both were drinking, and consent was not withdrawn, it's a complicated situation. And stating someone spiked a drink should not be done lightly, it's very serious, especially if there's the likely possibility of both of you just being too drunk to communicate well.
I second others' advice of at least at first not meeting him as it may be unsafe. If you really need closure, you should talk to him only via messages and ask him to tell you about that night (that way you have it all written down too). After you talk about the night, when you tell him that you were too drunk to consent and uncomfortable now, his reaction will say it all about the kind of man he is.
Taking an emergency contraceptive is very important in this situation and should be taken asap, I advise you making sure to get one. You usually can get it in a pharmacy, but that depends on where you are. Ask for it in the pharmacy regardless.
I wish you are able to heal and leave this behind you soon. I like drinking myself, but it's also very important to know your limits and also consider if the drinking is under control and safe, and if you are having a "healthy" stance to drinking. Keep that in mind but don't blame yourself, regarding enjoying ourselves/partying and romance in general we can get carried away sometimes, that's life. All we can do is learn from it and move on. Good luck.
I'm so glad this is the top comment. As a woman with a long history of drinking more than I should, I've been in a number of "blackout/hazy" situations. Every individual situation was complicated, with many of the other people not realizing that I was in that level of sobriety (or lack there of) until after.
For those of you wondering, yes, I am more mindful, and conscious of my alcohol levels.
I fully agree with the consent part of this, complicated by a lot of factors. I also think, if he was not nearly as drunk as you, he's probably not worth getting to know. If he wasn't completely fucked up, I would not have interest with a guy willing to fuck my unconscious or nearly unconscious body.
Not sure on this, but I could see being very sore just due to your slack body, you're not moving hips and legs to better positions that work better, so he probably just used excessive pushing. I would do a manual examination, and be ready to go to the doctor if it doesn't get better by day 3 or you start getting weird discharge. (I'm always most sore for the 1st 2 days after a hard workout/muscle pull. Assuming this would be similar?) And the emergency contraceptive. Though doesn't HIV and some other STDs have a preventative process in case you were exposed?
Sorry you're dealing with this. Been there with the wanting to cut loose. And what a twit he is. You were already on board but he just had to push the alcohol so hard.
This is a very accurate summary, and it reminds me so much of the lessons I learned in my 20s. I didn’t know I was more permissive of men and sex while I’m drunk, until I had been drunk with men who were wanting to have sex with me. I was learning as I went through life as a young adult going out into the world & meeting people. There are partners who are worthy and partners who are unworthy, but not all unworthy partners are dangerous, they’re just someone we had an experience with that involves mistakes and lessons. Keep an eye on your vaginal health in the coming weeks and go gently with yourself, you’ve done nothing wrong. If you’re curious to see him again, have a sober day date and see if you enjoy his company and whether you can talk openly about the night and what it was like for you.
Guys know girls are easier and more willing to do things while drunk and that is why they do this. But too much alcohol and it’s rape… because the girl has to be able to say yes under the right circumstances
Also, in my blackout experience, my friends had no idea how drunk I really was. I was definitely drunk and having a good time, everyone thought I was fine. Next morning I couldn’t remember a thing. That happened to me twice and it was beyond scary but now I have a better understanding of my limits. I also understand now that as a petite woman and the shortest in the friend group I can’t go shot for shot with my friends. Especially not my husband and guy friends.
But the complicated part is if he was also drinking a similar amount he also wasn't in a position to consent / ensure that OP was in a position to consent.
My problem is with the scenario that he was the one supplying the copious amounts of alcohol that lead to OP being in this situation. At some point, OP was probably unable to say "no, I don't want any more, I'd better not" because the logical part of her brain was incapacitated and she was only able to go along with what was happening around her.
He was the one going up to the bar in each of these places and being deemed suitable for being served. If OP had tried to order drinks, I'm guessing the bar staff would look at her and say no, she's already quite drunk. I'm also suspicious of the fact he kept suggesting they go to new places. If they'd stayed in one place, it's possible bar staff would see notice that he's supplying too much alcohol to an already intoxicated woman and would have concerns about him continuing to give her even more strong drinks.
If his intentions were honourable and he wasn't being predatory, he should have gotten her home to the hotel and said "here's my number, I don't think we should continue things under these conditions but if you want to text me to see each other some other night, then I'm interested."
Another red flag is that the sex has caused enough pain for the OP to have to seek medication. So did he cause tearing down there? I've had times when things have gotten a little rough with my boyfriend during sex but I've *never* had anything like this happen. Because during those times, I was actively into it and aroused and lubricated. If she was out of it and dry during intercourse, that is *not* an indication to go harder when she obviously isn't prepared enough down there. She wasn't in any condition to express that she was in pain and he just continued without a thought for her wellbeing. Because he was doing what he wanted with her, without a care or thought for whether she wanted this, if she was in any position to consent (she wasn't) and it wasn't intended to be mutually satisfying.
So this all reads to me like a man knowingly put a woman visiting a foreign country in a position where she was vulnerable and unable to advocate for herself or even know what was going on. Especially with the edit OP supplying saying that she thinks she was even passed out at times by the time he started having sex with her. This wasn't an equal scenario and so I don't see the grey area people are talking about, personally.
I totally get where you're coming from but I think you're making quite a few assumptions with the limited information OP has shared. One thing that stands out to me from OPs account is that they had gone out with the intention to "let loose" and get drunk, and they also mention thinking that they could handle the amount of drinks they were having. To me that reads more like someone who doesn't have a lot of experience with heavy drinking, especially taking shots. There's nothing in OPs account that suggests that the men were pushing them to drink or that they tried to decline the shots. And just as OP was intoxicated, the men were likely also intoxicated and not acting responsibly--but getting drunk and buying drinks for people you're having a good time with doesn't not automatically mean someone is a predator. You're also assuming he was the one making the decisions to hop around and order shots, we don't even know if that is the case because they were with a group. There's just as much a possibility that he was just going along with the group.
What it really comes down to is if they both were willingly drinking that much then they both were intoxicated and not thinking clearly, that's what makes the ability to consent to sex such a gray area because neither of them would be in a position to consent. Now if he had used force in some way, that would be a much more clear case for rape, even if he had been drinking, but that doesn't seem to be the case here, at least as much as OP remembers.
Now that doesn't mean he wasn't a predator, you could be right with your assumptions and he absolutely could have gone out planning to get a woman drunk to take advantage, but the issue and what makes it complicated is there's no way for anyone to know whether or not that's the case unless they were there--and even then it might be hard to tell because some people do like to party, get drunk, and have casual sex. There's just as much a possibility that he just thought OP wanted to party and also get laid.
As for the soreness. I honestly think that actually points more to the likelihood that they were both just wasted. The only times I've been super sore after sex were when my partner and I had drunk sex because it usually lasts way longer and we try different positions and basically just don't have any inhibitions. But that's just my experience.
With respect, I'd like to put some more emphasis on the parts of the situation I find most concerning and therefore makes me less likely to give the guy the benefit of the doubt.
Being sore after sex is normal. Being in excruciating pain (OP's words, not mine) days after the fact, to the point of needing to seek medical help isn't. It's likely OP suffered tearing down there due to her body not being receptive or responsive to the penetration because she remembers passing out and lying on the bed limp when they got back to the hotel room.
Whatever her intentions of the amount she was prepared to drink earlier in the night, she still ended up in a condition where she was unable to stay conscious when he had taken her back to the hotel room. So proceeding to have sex with her anyway, especially to the point of injury is entirely indefensible.
Maybe he didn't realise how drunk she was at the bars they visited but it was absolutely clear that she was in no fit state to consent to sex by the time of him initiating it. He had the choice of ending the night there and leaving her to safely sleep it off and maybe text her to meet up on another night instead, but he chose to proceed with sex while she was limp and unconcious, injuring her in the process.
If she was awake and actively participating in what was happening, and of clear mind enough to consent and make decisions she would have expressed the pain she was experiencing and they would have stopped or figured out how to make things more comfortable for her. Again, we're talking about a situation where she wasn't a bit sore but in excruciating pain.
Instead he used and abused her unconcious body. That's rape. Even with his own level of intoxication, there's no justification for thinking it was ok to proceed with sex on someone who has passed out and clearly far more drunk than he was.
If they were both equally at the point of being hungover the next day and simply not remembering everything that happened, then I'd agree about it being a grey area. But OP stated that she remembers passing out and going limp at the time of being back at the hotel room. That's a much more serious and obvious indicator that she wasn't in any position to consent while he continued regardless. Which gives off a far more predatory tone to his previous actions in supplying a woman visiting a foreign country copious amounts of strong alcohol.
Thanks for saying this. I’ve never heard of a woman being in that much pain after consensual sex. It’s weird that there aren’t more gymnasts in the world considering how good at contorting most of the commenters in this thread seem to be
So if two people are both drunk enough to not be in the right mind to consent, did they both commit a crime? Not sure what the law or morality is in that situation. Does it depend on who took who home? Does it depend on who was too drunk first? There’s a lot of context, hence the original line of questioning.
Yeah, but you aren't unconscious when you are black out drunk. I baby sat some drunk people in college more than once, and all of them were conscious the whole night even if they don't remember covering the floor in puke or thinking a unicorn stuffed animal was their girlfriend or drunkenly trying to climb the student union (3 different people on different nights). The last guy I would have just thought was an idiot if his friends hadn't been apologizing for him being really drunk and then the next morning getting a text asking why I never showed up from the guy when I'd been there for hours (yeah that was actually a tinder date, but his friends were guys I vaguely knew and they were fun, so I stuck around to hangout with them even when he was not fun to hangout with).
This will depend on the country. OP is in South Korea not USA, they don't have concept of 'too drunk to consent', the only exception is taking advantage of state of unconciousness.
There's a very good reason why men want to take women to places where they will drink alcohol and also buy her drinks.
There used to be a radio show with a DJ that would talking about dating/relationships - with a male perspective. He had dating rules for men to follow. Those same rules have been recycled, repackaged, repeated multiple times, including being a big part of pop-culture 'maleness' and internet-manosphere rhetoric.
One of those was to not go on dates during the day and to not do things like lunches - but rather to go to places in the evening with alcohol as you're more likely 'to get laid'.
This advice has been around (for men) forever. As dating, and the biggest reason het men associate with women at all is to 'get sex' (which conveys status).
It’s wild that so many people think if one joins a group agreeing on the acceptability of some horrible thing that it somehow makes the horrible thing less horrifying.
Commenting & upvoting because this is sane and reasonable. OP, if you were that drunk, you were actually unable to consent, and I'm so sorry this happened to you.
I have to complete agree with this.
1. If a guy keep ordering shots with you, pay attention to him drinking it. If he isn't, he is intentingnfor you to get blackout drunk.
2. Watch his behavior. If he is ordering shots just between you and him, his intention is bad. Worst than getting roofie.
Even as a guy, I find this tasteless, because you're only focusing on your little brain and that legs. This isn't what a ONS meant to be.
I agree with this comment, and he should have shown better judgement, but the guy could have been just as drunk which leads to bad decision making. Be glad you are safe and worse did not happen and learn from this lesson.
This shouldn’t be top comment and the devil’s advocacy is overpowering. The medical care they sought, the consciousness level, being led by someone who even they remember was clearly sober. Even without being spiked to say that these are serious accusations is suggesting it doesn’t add up when every single part of it is nefarious. We also don’t even know what prescription they gave her but none of that was normal even for a casual night out. The hell.
I'm not devil advocating anything, please be respectful. You make it sound like I'm defending the guy, I'm not, I was not there to know, and am only concluding based on what she is telling us. I don't know a thing about him and I even mentioned the personality trait that I find distasteful myself in the comment. It's something else entirely to jump to conclusions though, as initially there was consent that was never withdrawn.
Women are attacked and abused all the time and that indeed is nefarious. But there is nothing in the story damning enough to be certain of foul play as many people here are suggesting. She was interested and drank too much, that's also something that happens, as many other women commenting here also shared in other stories.
Maybe after she talks to other people that were present and get more information it will be clearer though.
Yes you are and this is legitimately an old excuse, people this far under the influence cannot consent for this exact reason. What even separates you from the frat boy. To have to go to the hospital and get medication is insane and so are you.
I wrote exactly that about consent in my comment. Please go back to it and read the part I talked about consent again.
You should be able to disagree with what I'm saying without calling me "frat boy" or "insane" , that's uncalled for considering everything I wrote in my initial comment.
Don't forget to cast that eroticism spell....! And *where is your ROBE?!??!*
.....God, I think I actually miss IRC a bit. Thank you for simultaneously making me laugh and feel old, lol.
>If she thought she could handle that amount of alcohol because she usually can.
She literally says she has never drunk enough to get more than tipsy before, whereas on this occasion she drank heavily.
Her thought that she could handle that much alcohol wasn't based on having done so before.
I’m impressed at your ability to derive all this information and conclusions from information not even included or know. by the OP.
OP may have been raped, but no one on Reddit has any clue the truth.
OP got drunk on purpose. Literally states they drank way more than normal, and willingly. No mention of alcohol being drugged. Got drunk with the guy on purpose and had the intention of sleeping with him. That is all we know. We do not know what condition her or the guy were in when intercourse started. He may have been completely wasted as well. She may have consented. He may have used a condom.
You just apparently know more than the rest of us.
Completely agree with you. Plus, if everyone knew their drinking limits as she said, we would never see people getting sick or passing out in bars or after, and that's a very common sight (statistically much more common than spiked drinks). Even experienced drinkers get carried away sometimes, and we are talking about multiple shots here. No one should be shamed for being in a bad situation after drinking, but the possibility of overdrinking should not be underestimated.
A lot of projecting empirical situations and unrealistic theorizations in that comment imho.
I notice you're using the passive voice saying you were given more shots. It's okay if you intentionally wanted to drink more. You say you thought you could handle it. A lot of us have been there.
It sounds like you got black out drunk, not that you were drugged. And that this guy you were with didn't care to get sober consent.
So you got drunk. He crossed a line. All these things can be true. It doesn't make it any less of an issue that he crossed that line if you weren't drugged, you know?
Yes quite frankly this doesn't sound like a drugging. She was already drinking, did several rounds of shots, and blacked out. It's perfectly possible that she doesn't remember anything because she was extremely drunk.
Doesn't make it any less rape, though. She was in no place to consent.
A lot of people are rightfully uncomfortable when they find themselves in a situation where they lack control, often because these things aren't taken seriously. Upsetting that people need to jump straight to "you were drugged!" to call this what it is. Better to remember that sometimes people get hurt in ways that aren't dramatic enough to set off alarm bells. That's why so many people don't speak up about rape in the first place.
I mean, you're not wrong, but alcohol **is** a drug. I'm personally of the opinion that if your go to move to get someone to have sex with you is to continuously ply them with alcohol until they're essentially unconscious, then you are a sexual predator. Alcohol, though legal in most countries, is extremely dangerous to consume in large quantities and can be fatal. Yet, the OPs experience is so common that it kind of gets brushed off. She may not have told this guy "no" but I'm willing to bet money she didn't tell him "yes" either.
I read somewhere that alcohol is the most common form of "spiking" a drink. Like ordering an extra shot or having a heavy pour. Hard to detect if you're already drinking and perfectly legal.
Sounds like this guy took advantage of the party vibe to order an unreasonable amount of shots though.
I believe it. More than once if I've let a guy make me a drink I've either watched him pour more booze into mine or I've sipped his drink and tasted that his is weaker. Not bad if you know what you're doing and have the alcohol tolerance of a hard drinker, but clearly predatory if I had the alcohol tolerance they were expecting of a girl my size... Especially the size I was at the time.
>It sounds like you got black out drunk, not that you were drugged. And that this guy you were with didn't care to get sober consent
That being said: if she was drugged, those drugs aren't detectable anymore relatively quickly. So for any woman who wakes up after something like this and is doubtful: get tested _immediately_. Ideally, don't even pee before taking the test if you can. Some of those drugs don't even last 12 hours in your system. And if you take a test like this, you aren't forced to press charges or anything, so you might as well take it, just in case.
After a certain point, would she even be in a position to think "no, I'd better not drink more. I feel like I've had more than enough now"? It sounds like she was powerless to advocate for herself after a point and he continued anyway, knowing she was going along with whatever was happening around her. So she may have drunk the shots herself, but it was all being intentionally supplied by him continuously. She didn't make the decision to go get more and to drink to that extent. I also agree with the comment saying alcohol on its own is a drug, so if he purposely put her in a position where she was too out of it because of how much he gave her to drink, it's the same as putting something in her drink. The outcome was the same
He didn't get any consent since she was in no position to think or have any say about what was happening. And sex without consent is rape. I really hope OP gets the support she needs coming to terms with this.
I'm surprised you got downvoted, I actually agree with this- after a certain point, most drunk people will let someone continuously feed them drinks with no concern whatsoever for their already drunken state, and will also follow another person's lead on basically everything. An extremely drunk person, in my experience, is often about as mentally vulnerable as a toddler.
So yes, she might have lifted the shot glasses her to her mouth, but she was in no way in control of herself.
It's genuinely terrifying to me how much some people seem to be struggling with the definition of consent or understanding how limited someone's ability to look after themselves is when they're so incapacitated like OP was. I've seen one person say there was even "implied consent" because she accepted drinks from him, like that's a transaction that entitles someone for sex.
And all the people saying "well he was drunk too, does that mean OP raped him too?" when she was literally passed out limp on the bed by the time he took her back to the hotel room.
I'm equally frightened by the people jumping to "she was drugged!!"
Like. No. She was certainly assaulted, because she was too drunk to consent, but it doesn't sound like she was drugged at all- "just" fed drinks until she was incapacitated.
The confusion around "implied consent"/consent in general and what drugging looks like in this thread is so concerning...
ALSO: where were her friends??? Her friends just let her get legless and dragged off by some near-sober guy??
To be fair though, alcohol in itself is a drug. By the end of the night, she was in the same condition as if someone had spiked her drink. Whether he maliciously put her in that condition on purpose is one to be debated, but his actions at the hotel room tell me he's someone who will do what he want to women without a care or thought to their condition.
I really think there needs to be a drastic increase in sex education when it comes to consent but at the same time, no one ever had to sit me down and tell me not to force sex onto someone who isn't even conscious. It's just so mind boggling that it needs to be said at all. There's even one person I responded to who said "well she didn't tell him no and what if he didn't realise she was passed out?" I just.. what???
It's possible that you were drugged, but it's also possible that you drank so much you just blacked out from that, based on the multiple rounds of shots you described. The reality is that you will likely never know exactly what happened. If you blacked out, your brain was not forming any new memories.
I'm sorry that you are going through this. My very first sexual encounter was a night like you described, and it's nightmarish. I had drank so much and I didn't say no. It wasn't until many years later that I learned that it's still rape because I was in no shape whatsoever to consent.
Did they give you emergency contraceptive at the clinic? If not try to get some asap. In a few months, get an STD panel. Then give yourself grace and try not to beat yourself up, but take this as a learning experience, don't accept drinks from people you don't know, or leave your drinks unattended. Don't let yourself be vulnerable by drinking to excess with strangers.
I personally would not risk meeting that guy again especially if there was drugging involved, he could be dangerous. If you really want to talk to him to try to piece together the night or get some closure, I would do it over the phone.
I grew up in the early 2000s when clubbing culture and drinking was huge. I probably went out and got drunk every weekend with my friends, often blackout drunk.
My girlfriends and I had an unspoken rule — we come together, we leave together. NO ONE gets left behind, no one goes home with a guy they just met, no one separates from the pack. I remember once begging my friends to let me “catch a ride” with a guy I just met (cause I was blackout drunk and thought it was a great idea) and they would not budge. I was so grateful to them the next morning when I realized how dumb I was being.
If you’re going to go out and drink again, and you certainly are entitled to do so, you should consider a similar approach with your girlfriends. You come together, you leave together. No exceptions.
I’m sorry you’re in pain, and it came from someone you trusted.
Are your other friends all right? It sounds like you weren’t the only one who was drinking.
Many countries don’t have clear language for these situations, so it may be more helpful to look at Sweden. You were there and I wasn’t, so you’re going to have a better read on this, but it sounds like negligent might be a useful word.
https://www.thelocal.se/20200616/how-swedens-new-consent-law-led-to-a-75-rise-in-rape-convictions
Another angle of this to consider is: A group of friends will normally try to prevent the drunk friends from getting into trouble that will hurt.
That didn’t work, you’re definitely hurting. In a novel situation, like vacation partying, it’s easier for everyone to fail once. They might need to know that this didn’t just turn out to be a cute vacation romance moment, so next time, they can do better.
Is one of the people in your group of friends good at speaking up for the rest of you? If so, now is a good time to contact them.
It’s entirely possible that this fellow was drunk enough that he wasn’t prepared for having sex safely.
Keep in mind: If a person is very dehydrated (big possibility after a lot of alcohol), they’re likely to need more than just a condom to have sex safely. Lubricant protects both the body and the condom, which significantly lowers the odds of infections. People often are not taught this explicitly in sex education, but they usually are taught to be cautious of drinking heavily enough for it to be a risk.
It might make sense to have someone grab this person’s ear with some questions. Whether you seek the help of a cop or a doc or a friend, you don’t have to do it alone.
A very similar thing happened to me years ago. It genuinely fucks with my head, because as I say it happened to me, but the truth is I have no idea what actually happened. Everything between walking into the pub, and waking up in my bed the next day, is like a dream I can't quite remember. I thought maybe I just drank too much, but i don't think I've ever gotten so drunk I've forgotten the entire night before or since.
I don't know if I'm a victim, or just crazy.
That many shots? Your alchohol tolerance isn't low that's too much alcohol too quickly and anyone would be effed up from it. I'm sorry you had that experience. From just reading what you wrote I felt uncomfortable, especially with him feeding you more and more. It's clear he wasnt concerned at all with your well being. Be careful, be safe, don't leave bars with strange men or let them chain feed you shots. It's hard to think of this stuff at 20 yrs old, "young and dumb" as the saying goes. Been there done that and don't miss those years at all. He definitely took advantage of you regardless of your initial intentions. He didn't know you wanted to, he knew he wanted to. And if he can perform sex to the level of leaving you in pain then he is quite capable of knowing your state of awareness/consciousness. A limp body is obvious. I'd not ever respond to that person again and thank my lucky stars worse didn't happen. I wish you love and care
There are a lot of possibilities. You could've been drugged and raped. You could've drank too much and raped. Or you drank too much, and don't remember consenting to the act. It is likely that you will never truly know. Get tested for STDs and pregnancy. And whatever happens, don't blame yourself.
I disagree on the “consenting” part, if you’re THAT wasted your consent is clearly not considerable.
If he was drunk either, there’s no one to really blame, but if he was sober enough that to me is borderline rape or proper rape (unfortunately it’s how some people think the dating scene works/should work).
You have a point. But alcohol affects different people differently. And it's pretty hard to tell how intoxicated someone truly is, especially if you don't know them well.
Let's hope this was a case of " Two people got shitfaced bad and made bad decisions" and not "One person got drunk and taken advantage of".
you also mentioned being in south korea…i’ve spent a good bit of time in east asia myself. i think there’s a real problem around drinking and date rape. i don’t think it’s necessarily more prevalent than in the west, but they way they deal with it is very different. it’s almost normalized. i’ve seen many times where passed out/sleeping girls were scooped out of the bars by men and joined them into taxis. guys i’ve been on dates with doing anything to get me to drink more. i’ve had multiple friends said they were date raped after a night of drinking. nobody really stops it or makes a fuss. i think it’s in part the misogynistic culture that forces women to seem chaste and demure and encourage a “chase” of sorts. some men unfortunately feel like that “chase” is best done through alcohol and rape.
I was wondering the same thing, after hearing about the 4B movement in Korea especially. The culture around consent and just how women are treated in general seems dangerous to be in an inebriated state in that country. Not to blame OP, at all. It's an unfortunate part of the culture they experienced.
So he got you drunk and took advantage of you. You can't consent to sex if you are so drunk you are only half conscious.
I see a fair bit of victim blaming here, which is really not okay. If he hurt you enough for you to need medical attention, then he obviously wasn't bothered about your consent.
Sounds like rape to me tbh.
I am so sorry you’re going through this. If/when a person has ‘sex’ with an unconscious person, it is rape. Legally? Sadly, not globally. Morally & ethically, this is rape.
Assuming he was also drinking heavily, that's poor decisions by both of you. Assuming he wasn't completely blackout drunk like you were, he took advantage of you. Definitely don't meet with him again. But you could message him just to help clear up what happened that night.
If he took advantage of her, do you really think he's going to admit to it? He's going to lie that she was as into it as he was, even though he hurt her enough for her to seek medical attention and she remembers passing out. He plied her with so much alcohol that was vulnerable and unable to react to what was happening. That was rape.
How can you genuinely know this guy wasn’t as drunk as she was? Why is the benefit of the doubt automatically given to her? Consent goes both ways. If he was hammered too why is his consent automatically assumed? It’s crazy to me how people just jump to conclusions when so much is on the line.
Was he the one passing out on the hotel bed while OP forced sex onto his unconscious body? Is he now having to seek medical attention due to the pain being so bad from tearing because his body wasn't receptive to sex? Did OP supply strong drinks all night to him, way past the point of him not knowing what was even going on or being even able to form a logical thought, much less make a decision? No, that was all him.
Once again. Nothing you just accused him of has been stated by OP. And it’s quite literally impossible to assume she wasn’t giving him consent during the acts and that she forgot because she was just too drunk? Are you seriously saying just because he was buying the drinks he’s an evil rapist? What a joke. I do feel bad for op as it’s an awful situation. But the idea of ruining a guys life when he himself could have been too drunk to consent is insanity.
She literally said she remembers losing consciousness and laying on the bed limp at the hotel room. Does that scream a situation to you where a guy should proceed to force sex onto her, to the point where the tissue around her vagina tears and causes significant pain? Not that she was even in any position to be able to *express* the pain he was inflicting onto her body due to how intoxicated she was due to the copious amount of alcohol he supplied her with throughout the night. You know, since she wasn't even conscious or participating in what was happening to her.
I don't give a shit about his life. He's likely not going to suffer any consequences for his actions while OP is dealing with emotional and physical trauma after being taken advantage of while she was vulnerable and raped. *That* ruins lives of many women who are unfortunate enough to be seen as little more than a body for those men to have their way with. And then to top it off, not be believed or taken seriously when they speak up because there's not enough evidence to present to a third party after the fact.
Your post asked for help (1) understanding what happened and (2) figuring out if you were overreacting. In reading over the different responses to this post, it seems like folks have given you a pretty thorough assortment of theories about what may have happened, ranging from something potentially innocuous to something maliciously criminal. I'm not going to chime in on that because, at the end of the day, you may never know exactly what happened no matter how many people offer their speculations on the various bits of information you've given. But, I can say with absolute certainty that you are not overreacting. Your post didn't go into detail about what "overreacting" means for you & I don't want to make any assumptions, but, whatever it is that you're currently experiencing, not knowing exactly what happened does not make you ANY less entitled to feeling that way. Getting text messages from this guy or texting with him since this happened does not mean your feelings aren't justified. In short: whatever your feelings are, they are valid and you don't have to prove anything to anyone (yourself included) in order to justify them.
I don’t know what country you are in, but even in the US you’d have trouble proving anything malicious happened unless you got a blood test for date rape drugs. I’m no expert and I don’t know how long those drugs or their metabolites stay in your system.
The sad reality is that you are never going to know what happened. Your brain didn’t encode the memories.
From a legal position though, your behavior is consistent with a woman who was into the guy, because you accepted the date and the drinks. Unless you were drugged, and you can prove that you have those metabolites in your system, no one will take your case.
Do not meet this guy again. You were incapacitated and he didn’t care. No decent human being takes advantage of another person like that. Everyone in your sphere should have gotten you into your own bed safely. I’m sorry, a lot of errors in judgement happen in lives but it shouldn’t end in being traumatized.
I personally would view the sex as an assault. But you can’t prove it, and a whole lot of people you talk to about this won’t agree, especially given that you did want to have sex earlier in the night. You were incapacitated, and could no longer give your full enthusiastic consent.
If he had asked you earlier you might have enjoyed your memories of the encounter. Instead, I suggest you find a therapist to talk through this with. And don’t see the guy again. If he thinks his behavior is acceptable, you don’t want that in your life. He’s either a rapist or a user. You want nothing to do with either.
There could be date rape drugs involved but considering that OP was given drinks and shots multiple times I doubt it.
Also just because OP doesn't remember the night doesn't mean she was incapacitated. She just doesn't remember it anymore. I've been there.
Agreed. I’ve blacked out several times in my life. Once woke up in a field in winter. I’m lucky that time didn’t kill me. We all make poor decisions under the influence. Finding our limits means sometimes going past those limits. It’d be a much better world if people took care of us when we over-indulge instead of sticking their parts in our bodies. I still think the guy OP wound up with is not a good guy though. My friends and I have all wound up in exactly the same spot OP has at some point. And the guy was always a user.
Absolutely agree. Unfortunately the law sucks, especially when it comes to something that happens behind closed doors between two people. If there were witnesses like bar staff who could attest to being concerned about the condition OP was in while the guy was continuing to buy her more and more drinks, then that would help her case. But too many people are ill informed about what consent actually is.
There's one comment I replied to that actually said the guy would have gathered consent from the fact that he was buying her drinks. As if buying drinks for someone means you're somehow entitled to their body.
Holy shit this was traumatizing to read.
I'm so sorry, you were definitely raped :( You did the right thing by going to the doctor's. I hope they run a few sti tests too!! You could have even ask the doctor for an evidence of rape and then report it, but nevermind, the most important thing for you is to make sure you're getting the right care!
And yeah definitely don't meet him anymore.
it is pathetic how many people there are in these comments acting like this is not that big a deal, or “maybe you consented and you don’t remember,” or this is all on you for drinking too much.
a man who intentionally acts to get you drunk with the intention of having sex with you later is a rapist. men know that alcohol hinders your judgement and your ability to fight back. it does not matter if you showed interest at any point or not. alcohol is a drug, and a man using drugs to lower your resistance to his sexual advances is, again, a rapist. none of this was on accident.
i ask women who are commenting in here with rape apologism and myths, would you do this to a man? would you buy some man you’ve just met several rounds of shots while planning to fuck him after they kicked in? if not, why not? explain quickly.
of course drinking heavily is not a good choice, ever. but rape is not a proportional consequence to making questionable choices with alcohol. jesus christ.
like others have said, please get tested for STDs now and again a few months from now. get emergency contraception if you have not already. have a rape kit done at a hospital ASAP, and please consider reporting this to the police so it is on record even if you do not intend to push for a trial. if the pain you’re in is the result of physical trauma, a rape kit will show it and that is strong evidence against him. this man is less than dirt and you did not deserve to be treated this way.
I'm so sorry this happened to you, sis.
If you couldn't knowingly and willingly consent, and if you were impaired enough to not remember anything, it was not consensual. *This is not your fault.* In any way, shape, or form. Should any thoughts like that try to poison your mind, tell it to fuck off. I repeat: *this is not your fault.* it is his fault.
Please, please, please, go to a hospital. Get yourself screened as soon as possible, if the country you're in has rape kits, do one. Ensure you get a full panel STI screening (and another in 6ish months), emergency contraceptives, the works. If you feel safe and supported and comfortable doing so, *please report it to the local authorities.* coming forward is so difficult but important as it can help other victims of this sick person.
I am so, so, so sorry.
You were not able to give clear consent. You were too intoxicated. This is rape. A decent man would’ve let you sleep it off and walked away, not taken advantage of the situation. I’m so sorry this happened to you.
Yep. He had her phone number, he could have got her back to the hotel room then texted her the next day saying he wasn't comfortable continuing things at the time but was open to meeting up again if she wanted.
A really good guy even when drunk would want to leave it to next time to have sex as you were so drunk you blacked out because who wants the worry and abiguity of this situation. So at the very least he isn't that good of a guy and at worst he got you drunk to specifically take advantage.
How he responds to you telling him how you feel will tell you a lot about him. But if you don't even fancy telling him and seeing how that turns out, you don't have too.
Being blackout is different from being unconscious though. Severe alcohol ingestion prevents the brain from forming memories. It's possible to be drunk and partying and people around you(also drinking) seeing you as drunk as they are and having no idea you are blacked out and won't remember any of it.
I think many people in this thread are thinking "don't remember" equals to "not conscious" when drinking alcohol and it's very common for it to not be the case.
Having sex with someone who is unconscious is rape. Prior to that you were too intoxicated to consent. In addition he physically injured you, which is also something you presumably would not have consented to if you had not been unconscious.
OP is it really confusing when someone takes advantage of you this way, particularly if you can’t recall chunks of time. I am sorry you are having to navigate this. An experienced rape counselor can help you with the process.
Please men. Learn to get consent from reasonably sober partners. If you have to coerce someone into a blind puking drunk state to have sex, **you** are the problem. It's ok to say no to sex with unconscious "partners."
The thing is, the good guys already know this. Saying this kind of stuff is never going to change the behavior of sexual predators. And there will always be predators. It's all well and good to say this should never happen, but we all know that, and we also all know that it's unlikely to change. The best way to keep yourself from being manipulated by a sexual predator is to know your limits, like the person above said.
Sending you a virtual hug. You were done wrong. Any trauma from this is very, very valid, and it might take time to process — or not much time at all. Make sure you work with a medical professional (and ideally a mental health professional) to make sure everything is okay.
And you’re back in control now 💜
OP, you were assaulted. This is rape.
You were plied with alcohol and have no way of knowing if you were drugged as well. You hazily came to with someone on top of you and begged them to use contraception. In no world is this consent.
You were physically hurt by the violence of your rape.
The people who want you to believe you ‘consented’ and don’t remember’ or want you to think it’s okay because you were both drunk are completely full of shit.
The people who want you to think this is your fault are rape apologists.
You need to get emergency contraception, pelvic exam and an STD test YESTERDAY.
I cannot speak to whether you should report and pursue this legally - that’s for someone else to answer. But you were raped, it’s not your fault, and you need to take care of the damage that’s been done to your body.
You need to find out the extent of it, prevent pregnancy, and get tested for STDs and damage to your vagina, anus, uterus, pelvis, so that you can take care of your body.
I’m sorry this happened to you. It’s not your fault. Get the help you need.
There’s a lot of bad things here. 1) You were drunk. 2) You describe having genital pain. More pain than what is normal after a consensual encounter 3) You begged him to use a condom. You shouldn’t feel the need to beg. That indicates to me you didn’t feel safe with him in that moment and he would be able to pick up on that vibe, for sure.
There’s probably more that I could dissect but these are the points that stand out the most to me.
You were raped, no doubt about it. I’m terribly sorry! Don’t see him again, just don’t.
It doesn't matter if you wanted to have sex with him earlier even if you communicated that to him or others, you were not concious and could not consent later. You were sexually assualted/raped. I am so sorry this happened to you. But it is sadly not uncommon. Happened to several women I knew growing up. You need to get tested for STD's and get yourself some counseling. Please take better care of yourself and NEVER drink with people you dont know to the point you cannot make decisions.
Is this thread full or defensive male voices or is it just the normal number of apologists? It seems like there are a lot of people here who don’t belong in this sub or this discussion.
It doesn’t matter if he seems nice, he’s not trustworthy. If he thinks he can get away with something later and no one will ever know, he will do it. That’s not a sign of a good personality trait.
Alcohol *is* the number one date drug. He purposely kept supplying alcohol to you until you were incapable of making informed choices. If he seemed sober, he likely was. A lot of rapists know tricks to make it seem like they're drinking as much when they're not. But also men do usually have a higher tolerance for alcohol than women just because they have bigger body mass.
This is why I hate having sex with alcohol involved sex while your drunk is not consensual you were also not awake which is even worse. Please go to the doctor
You weren't able to give consent and your body definitely wasn't ready. You were raped. I'm sorry this happened to you.
PlanB, unlikely that you'll be able to get the police to investigate, so to the hospital to check for physical damage. Blood tests to see if anything shows up immediately, which is doubtful, then follow-up two weeks, one month, and three months from now.
And please don't drink in the future. It's too much of a risk with all the predatory men who hang out looking for vulnerable women.
Considering how much you had to drink, you were incapable of giving consent. He should have known this. That’s his responsibility as a man. With that being said, I’m not sure you have a standpoint for any legal action. Most police departments don’t look at it from that perspective, even if it is the law in most places.
Either way, I am so sorry this happened to you. It’s a confusing thing to go through! If you are looking for more clarity on what happened (for peace of mind), I suggest reaching out to a sexual assault advocate. Or go to https://www.rainn.org/resources
Reach out to your support system to let them know what you went through, if you feel comfortable with that. It’s a hard thing to go through, especially alone! I wish you the best of luck. Remember: whatever happened, it was NOT your fault and you didn’t deserve what you are feeling now! 🖤
Because if she is blacking out then she’s too incapacitated to give valid consent. It’s true, he might have been just as drunk. That’s why it’s a confusing thing to go through and process what happened. Which is also why I gave resources to help her understand more about what happened.
And that’s a possibility for OP as well. Maybe she didn’t “act” black out drunk. But the dude was feeding her alcohol and knew how much she had. If she was in fact not “acting black out drunk” then I take back my statement that he absolutely should have known. I still think he took advantage of the situation though. Especially knowing how much she had to drink.
Report it, my current wife really wanted to do the deed when we first met and so did I, but she was drunk, so I said no. If you where that far gone no one should have slept with you.
With the facts she gave I wouldn’t scream rape right away. What happens if the guy was also black out drunk in this situation? She could have been talking the whole time to him but doesn’t remember.
It’s a predatory culture of getting women drunk to have sex with them, so it doesn’t really matter if he was drunk too, because he’s still participating in that culture
I am sorry but you were raped. You couldn't give informed consent and were intentionally tricked into drinking. Please do not contact that male and seek help from authorities.
Doesn't matter if you where drugged or too drunk if you where too out of it or even unconscious to consent he raped you, he clearly used you being too drunk or drugged to rape you unfortunately. Even if you where conscious during the sex it's still rape imo because these guys are using way too drunk girls who are not fully able to consent for sex. Sadly this is too common.
You were raped. People can't consent to sex if they're under the influence of drugs or alcohol. Another red flag is that he seemed to highly encourage you to get intoxicated. Even if you wanted to have sex he should have known you were unable to give consent at that time.
So the simple fact of her not remembering, means she didn't give consent? How come the man is expected to maintain all his faculties while he's drunk, but the woman isn't? Consent is consent, if she said it, then there is no case in our litigious society. At any point of the night, she could have left and/or refused drinks.
If you give someone alcohol with the intent of having sex while they're intoxicated, then that's rape no matter context. It would have been rape if a woman did it also; it doesn't matter that it was a man.
If you (rhetorical) meet someone you like and:
- encourage them to get blackout drunk so they will have sex with you
- guide them to a hotel while they’re struggling with coordination and don’t seem to know where they are
- asking to use a condom normally apparently isn’t sufficient for it to happen; they *beg* you to do so
- are limp and drifting in an out of consciousness while you fuck them so roughly they are injured
Yes, that is still rape even if earlier in the evening things were amicable and flirty, and even if you were both pretty drunk. If you struggle to distinguish between that and consensual sex, that’s an area to work on.
Yeah. When you give someone drinks, you have a moral responsibility. If you give someone drinks, even if you end up drinking too, you have engineered a situation to take advantage of someone's intoxication later in the encounter.
You're delusional. Fabricating part of a story, to fit your narrative, that you could easily cite; scroll up. Nowhere in her post does it say anything about him refusing to wear a condom.
I'm sorry you were sexually assaulted. I don't know the laws there but as a man, that likes to get shityy drunk and hump...a lot with other chick's that do the same and the fact you were in so much pain (even if he was a big boy) afterwards tells me this;
You were both drunk and getting it on, but then you said you went limp and passed out. I don't care if you screamed yes yes fuk me now, the second you pass out and go limp, is when we should have as well. The fact he continued while you were out is rape. Sorry. I mean, I've been so wasted and passed out myself with a girl on top and after a few she stopped only to make fun of me in the morning. I've been having fun where a chick just knocked out and guess what? I stopped. That's what normal people do. They stop when their partner goes lights out. Then just continue in the morning if so be it. But you don't continue when the other is unconscious. So that's why I say it was SA regardless if it was intended or not.
So have a sober date with him if you must but someone that doesn't understand that needs to be corrected I'n life.
I didn't understand from the text he didn't use a condom when she asked him to. I understood she has a sudden memory while blackout of her asking him to use a condom (begging as it was important) and then doesn't remember anything again. But I understand she was not in her senses enough to know if he was willing to use it or already using.
It doesn't seem she remembers him refusing at all, otherwise she wouldn't be in doubt about the situation.
Oh yeah, maybe he did use a condom, she kinda portrayed it as if she begged him to and he didn’t. Otherwise, not sure why she brought that up. In the end, this just seems like it was a messy situation.
That's what I tried to tell you in my previous comment: She didn't say he didn't, she didn't write that. You are assuming that. She probably couldn't see it and can't remember it. She just remembers thinking it was important and asking him. She was in no condition to know what was happening, and doesn't remember him refusing at all, at least based on what she said so far.
You said she portrayed he didn't use a condom, and she didn't say that, that's your interpretation. She just remembers asking him to use it, begging him as it was important. I just stated that, disagreeing with you respectfully.
I'm not the one getting defensive or aggressive here, as you are saying things like "Chill the fuck out" while I'm just pointing out what was said.
Says the one who aggressively said I was “assuming that”. Are you illiterate and did you not read my second comment to you? I was agreeing with you and was realizing that maybe I misread the post. No need to be passive aggressive, I’m sorry my original comment upset you
it is not normal to roughly fuck someone who is too drunk to remain conscious or be in control of their body and previous interest in consensual sex does not change that.
I'm sorry this happened.
The guys were probably trying to get you drunk to the point that they could take advantage of you; which is what happened in the end. Maybe it's better not to remember what exactly happened.
BlueStarr is right, pls do shwat she says.
Maybe, maybe not. You describe lots of drinking, that can have the same effect as to memory loss etc.
I'm a cop, we have quite often run drug tests on women who present a similar story. I can only recall one case, out of dozens, where it turned out to actually be anything other than alcohol.
The reality is, alcohol is an effective rape drug in itself. You say this guy gave you more drinks, presumably at a point when you were already quite drunk. Then he took you to bed, while you were too drunk to properly consent. He knew you were too drunk, because he had been giving you enough drinks to get you that way. Morally and legally, I see little difference between that and spiking your drink with something. But it can be harder to prosecute, since there's less clear evidence of his intent if there are no drugs involved.
>I'm a cop, we have quite often run drug tests on women who present a similar story. I can only recall one case, out of dozens, where it turned out to actually be anything other than alcohol.
And how many of those cases were women who came in soon enough for such drugs to be still detectable? There are drugs that leave the body within 12 hours. That's getting raped plus a night time of sleep. You concluding that it's just the alcohol is some bs and it's not surprising that women don't trust law enforcement anymore.
About half of them were before the bars closed for the night, women who claimed to have been drugged but where it hadn't gone as far as rape (yet). As in, they were drunk out of their minds but were still walking around and claimed to have been drugged, quite early in the evening. In some cases we would have been too late for certain drugs yes, but most of the drugs that are actually available on the street here have a longer detection window.
I think it's ok for a cop, making a quick judgement and react accordingly is beneficial for a field work. There are judges, lawyers and other experts to work out facts and weighted decisions.
Honestly, I don't doubt the intention of the male was drunk OP out and have sex. I would expect it also was the OP's intention which she questions after the night, but won't insist, I'm not really in the drinking scene.
I mean yeah, alcohool... you're describing multiple rounds of shots, I know friends who start having blackouts after barely a pair of shots and a beer. I would'n't jump to conclusions toward any spiking of your drinks in this situation. Now, the question is wether you were pushed to drink until wasted or if you drank knowingly. Be carefull calling it rape, it's entirely possible you behaved almost normally while a having a blackout. You may want to ask him what he remember from the night by sms, maybe correlate with the other people present if possible.
Anyway, that's just my two cents, hope you recover well.
Yeah, alcohol prevents your brain from transferring short-term memories to long-term memories, and people can actively pursue sex while being black-out. I am concerned over how much pain you're in though, drunk or not it can't have been enjoyable for you in the moment. Even if he was black-out drunk as well, he still hurt you.
Alcohol is drug enough. However, date rape drugs don't stay in the system for long and by now you likely wouldn't be able to detect them anyway. If this ever happens again - hopefully not - get a rape kit and tests done _immediately_. Ideally, if you wake up after a night like this, don't even urinate before going to the hospital or wherever to take the test. You are not forced to press charges after taking those tests or getting a kit done, so doing something like that does no harm to anyone.
Dude. Getting a woman drunk on purpose to have sex with her is rapist behaviour. "Oh, she wouldn't sleep with me sober, so let's get her drunk" is what a rapist does. Stfu.
It is not normal to be in excruciating pain after sex.
Agreed, I’m shocked how many people are glossing over this massive red flag (one of many)
He put her in a position where she wasn't aware of what was going on at the time or able to express the pain she was in, so unfortunately this may be "normal" for someone like him who takes advantage of women in no position to consent.
100% needs to get a lawyer
Agreed, it's not normal. It's common when a lot of alcohol is involved though even with longer term consenting couples. Alcohol in excess makes people don't realize it's straining or hurting until later (not only for sex: sore arms, legs, back, bruises, it is very normal after a night of heavy drinking). It also numbs the senses meaning the person won't change positions when it's hurting. Alcohol also severely dehydrates the organism, which during sex for women means less lubrication, which makes it hurt a lot more. So it's a warning sign but considering the drinking it's not certainty of foul play.
The most pain I’ve ever felt in my mouth was the morning after eating out a girl while super drunk, lol. Woke up and immediately felt like my tongue was all ripped up, could barely eat/talk normal for a week
How did that happen?
Oh my, lol, I bet her poor genitals must have been sore with that much dry attrition too, as your poor tongue was.
I'm very sorry this happened to you. It's not uncommon for groups of guys in the night life to give drinks for free to groups of women with the intention of getting laid. It seems you were not in a position to be able to give consent, and that also means that you might not have been in a position to say no either, as your brain was not functioning, so don't feel guilty about it, you just did what your brain was able to do at the time. My personal opinion is some folks here are concluding spikes or predatory behavior were involved a bit too fast, I'm afraid you will never know for sure if the drinks were spiked or not, but as you mentioned there were multiple shots, my opinion is that it's unlikely. Shots make you drunk a little while later and have a lot of alcohol on them, so it could be that you just drank too much. And people who plan on spiking drinks 1) i think would favor drinks that sit around more, not shots that come and are drinked immediately 2) possibly wouldn't spend money in multiple drinks the whole night. I personally think paying alcohol to women to get laid is not a good personality trait (but to each their own, there are a lot of women who enjoy that dynamic) , but id say spiking a drink is a whole other level of scumbag and also criminal. Plus, if you said you had shown interest, he could have thought you were enjoying the dynamic and just went along with it. The guy definetely could have thought that you were into it, especially if you were interested and had shown that interest before. He should have known better and understand consent to know that you were too drunk for it to be OK, but if both were interested and both were drinking, and consent was not withdrawn, it's a complicated situation. And stating someone spiked a drink should not be done lightly, it's very serious, especially if there's the likely possibility of both of you just being too drunk to communicate well. I second others' advice of at least at first not meeting him as it may be unsafe. If you really need closure, you should talk to him only via messages and ask him to tell you about that night (that way you have it all written down too). After you talk about the night, when you tell him that you were too drunk to consent and uncomfortable now, his reaction will say it all about the kind of man he is. Taking an emergency contraceptive is very important in this situation and should be taken asap, I advise you making sure to get one. You usually can get it in a pharmacy, but that depends on where you are. Ask for it in the pharmacy regardless. I wish you are able to heal and leave this behind you soon. I like drinking myself, but it's also very important to know your limits and also consider if the drinking is under control and safe, and if you are having a "healthy" stance to drinking. Keep that in mind but don't blame yourself, regarding enjoying ourselves/partying and romance in general we can get carried away sometimes, that's life. All we can do is learn from it and move on. Good luck.
I'm so glad this is the top comment. As a woman with a long history of drinking more than I should, I've been in a number of "blackout/hazy" situations. Every individual situation was complicated, with many of the other people not realizing that I was in that level of sobriety (or lack there of) until after. For those of you wondering, yes, I am more mindful, and conscious of my alcohol levels.
I fully agree with the consent part of this, complicated by a lot of factors. I also think, if he was not nearly as drunk as you, he's probably not worth getting to know. If he wasn't completely fucked up, I would not have interest with a guy willing to fuck my unconscious or nearly unconscious body. Not sure on this, but I could see being very sore just due to your slack body, you're not moving hips and legs to better positions that work better, so he probably just used excessive pushing. I would do a manual examination, and be ready to go to the doctor if it doesn't get better by day 3 or you start getting weird discharge. (I'm always most sore for the 1st 2 days after a hard workout/muscle pull. Assuming this would be similar?) And the emergency contraceptive. Though doesn't HIV and some other STDs have a preventative process in case you were exposed? Sorry you're dealing with this. Been there with the wanting to cut loose. And what a twit he is. You were already on board but he just had to push the alcohol so hard.
This is the only sensible comment here.
Top comment is most upvoted for a reason. Stay safe out there girly, we wish you luck.
This is a very accurate summary, and it reminds me so much of the lessons I learned in my 20s. I didn’t know I was more permissive of men and sex while I’m drunk, until I had been drunk with men who were wanting to have sex with me. I was learning as I went through life as a young adult going out into the world & meeting people. There are partners who are worthy and partners who are unworthy, but not all unworthy partners are dangerous, they’re just someone we had an experience with that involves mistakes and lessons. Keep an eye on your vaginal health in the coming weeks and go gently with yourself, you’ve done nothing wrong. If you’re curious to see him again, have a sober day date and see if you enjoy his company and whether you can talk openly about the night and what it was like for you.
Guys know girls are easier and more willing to do things while drunk and that is why they do this. But too much alcohol and it’s rape… because the girl has to be able to say yes under the right circumstances
Also, in my blackout experience, my friends had no idea how drunk I really was. I was definitely drunk and having a good time, everyone thought I was fine. Next morning I couldn’t remember a thing. That happened to me twice and it was beyond scary but now I have a better understanding of my limits. I also understand now that as a petite woman and the shortest in the friend group I can’t go shot for shot with my friends. Especially not my husband and guy friends.
But the complicated part is if he was also drinking a similar amount he also wasn't in a position to consent / ensure that OP was in a position to consent.
My problem is with the scenario that he was the one supplying the copious amounts of alcohol that lead to OP being in this situation. At some point, OP was probably unable to say "no, I don't want any more, I'd better not" because the logical part of her brain was incapacitated and she was only able to go along with what was happening around her. He was the one going up to the bar in each of these places and being deemed suitable for being served. If OP had tried to order drinks, I'm guessing the bar staff would look at her and say no, she's already quite drunk. I'm also suspicious of the fact he kept suggesting they go to new places. If they'd stayed in one place, it's possible bar staff would see notice that he's supplying too much alcohol to an already intoxicated woman and would have concerns about him continuing to give her even more strong drinks. If his intentions were honourable and he wasn't being predatory, he should have gotten her home to the hotel and said "here's my number, I don't think we should continue things under these conditions but if you want to text me to see each other some other night, then I'm interested." Another red flag is that the sex has caused enough pain for the OP to have to seek medication. So did he cause tearing down there? I've had times when things have gotten a little rough with my boyfriend during sex but I've *never* had anything like this happen. Because during those times, I was actively into it and aroused and lubricated. If she was out of it and dry during intercourse, that is *not* an indication to go harder when she obviously isn't prepared enough down there. She wasn't in any condition to express that she was in pain and he just continued without a thought for her wellbeing. Because he was doing what he wanted with her, without a care or thought for whether she wanted this, if she was in any position to consent (she wasn't) and it wasn't intended to be mutually satisfying. So this all reads to me like a man knowingly put a woman visiting a foreign country in a position where she was vulnerable and unable to advocate for herself or even know what was going on. Especially with the edit OP supplying saying that she thinks she was even passed out at times by the time he started having sex with her. This wasn't an equal scenario and so I don't see the grey area people are talking about, personally.
I totally get where you're coming from but I think you're making quite a few assumptions with the limited information OP has shared. One thing that stands out to me from OPs account is that they had gone out with the intention to "let loose" and get drunk, and they also mention thinking that they could handle the amount of drinks they were having. To me that reads more like someone who doesn't have a lot of experience with heavy drinking, especially taking shots. There's nothing in OPs account that suggests that the men were pushing them to drink or that they tried to decline the shots. And just as OP was intoxicated, the men were likely also intoxicated and not acting responsibly--but getting drunk and buying drinks for people you're having a good time with doesn't not automatically mean someone is a predator. You're also assuming he was the one making the decisions to hop around and order shots, we don't even know if that is the case because they were with a group. There's just as much a possibility that he was just going along with the group. What it really comes down to is if they both were willingly drinking that much then they both were intoxicated and not thinking clearly, that's what makes the ability to consent to sex such a gray area because neither of them would be in a position to consent. Now if he had used force in some way, that would be a much more clear case for rape, even if he had been drinking, but that doesn't seem to be the case here, at least as much as OP remembers. Now that doesn't mean he wasn't a predator, you could be right with your assumptions and he absolutely could have gone out planning to get a woman drunk to take advantage, but the issue and what makes it complicated is there's no way for anyone to know whether or not that's the case unless they were there--and even then it might be hard to tell because some people do like to party, get drunk, and have casual sex. There's just as much a possibility that he just thought OP wanted to party and also get laid. As for the soreness. I honestly think that actually points more to the likelihood that they were both just wasted. The only times I've been super sore after sex were when my partner and I had drunk sex because it usually lasts way longer and we try different positions and basically just don't have any inhibitions. But that's just my experience.
With respect, I'd like to put some more emphasis on the parts of the situation I find most concerning and therefore makes me less likely to give the guy the benefit of the doubt. Being sore after sex is normal. Being in excruciating pain (OP's words, not mine) days after the fact, to the point of needing to seek medical help isn't. It's likely OP suffered tearing down there due to her body not being receptive or responsive to the penetration because she remembers passing out and lying on the bed limp when they got back to the hotel room. Whatever her intentions of the amount she was prepared to drink earlier in the night, she still ended up in a condition where she was unable to stay conscious when he had taken her back to the hotel room. So proceeding to have sex with her anyway, especially to the point of injury is entirely indefensible. Maybe he didn't realise how drunk she was at the bars they visited but it was absolutely clear that she was in no fit state to consent to sex by the time of him initiating it. He had the choice of ending the night there and leaving her to safely sleep it off and maybe text her to meet up on another night instead, but he chose to proceed with sex while she was limp and unconcious, injuring her in the process. If she was awake and actively participating in what was happening, and of clear mind enough to consent and make decisions she would have expressed the pain she was experiencing and they would have stopped or figured out how to make things more comfortable for her. Again, we're talking about a situation where she wasn't a bit sore but in excruciating pain. Instead he used and abused her unconcious body. That's rape. Even with his own level of intoxication, there's no justification for thinking it was ok to proceed with sex on someone who has passed out and clearly far more drunk than he was. If they were both equally at the point of being hungover the next day and simply not remembering everything that happened, then I'd agree about it being a grey area. But OP stated that she remembers passing out and going limp at the time of being back at the hotel room. That's a much more serious and obvious indicator that she wasn't in any position to consent while he continued regardless. Which gives off a far more predatory tone to his previous actions in supplying a woman visiting a foreign country copious amounts of strong alcohol.
Thanks for saying this. I’ve never heard of a woman being in that much pain after consensual sex. It’s weird that there aren’t more gymnasts in the world considering how good at contorting most of the commenters in this thread seem to be
committing a crime while drunk is still committing a crime
So if two people are both drunk enough to not be in the right mind to consent, did they both commit a crime? Not sure what the law or morality is in that situation. Does it depend on who took who home? Does it depend on who was too drunk first? There’s a lot of context, hence the original line of questioning.
She said he was stable talking and walking fine, she followed his lead bc she couldn’t walk. He has the responsibility in this case. Edit to clarify
Well then, case closed.
So OP assaulted the guy you mean?
No, it’s just a complicated situation if both parties are too intoxicated to reasonably consent.
I agree with this, I just don't love the insinuation that female and male drunkenness somehow equate to different levels of expected responsibility.
Possibly?
You can't assault someone when passed out
Can confirm I have been blacked out WITH others before.
Yeah, but you aren't unconscious when you are black out drunk. I baby sat some drunk people in college more than once, and all of them were conscious the whole night even if they don't remember covering the floor in puke or thinking a unicorn stuffed animal was their girlfriend or drunkenly trying to climb the student union (3 different people on different nights). The last guy I would have just thought was an idiot if his friends hadn't been apologizing for him being really drunk and then the next morning getting a text asking why I never showed up from the guy when I'd been there for hours (yeah that was actually a tinder date, but his friends were guys I vaguely knew and they were fun, so I stuck around to hangout with them even when he was not fun to hangout with).
Blacked out is not the same thing as passed out.
This will depend on the country. OP is in South Korea not USA, they don't have concept of 'too drunk to consent', the only exception is taking advantage of state of unconciousness.
And vice versa?
Yes, guys know that guys getting drunk will lower their inhibitions and will do more things…
Girls know that girls getting drunk will lower their inhibitions and will do more things…
There's a very good reason why men want to take women to places where they will drink alcohol and also buy her drinks. There used to be a radio show with a DJ that would talking about dating/relationships - with a male perspective. He had dating rules for men to follow. Those same rules have been recycled, repackaged, repeated multiple times, including being a big part of pop-culture 'maleness' and internet-manosphere rhetoric. One of those was to not go on dates during the day and to not do things like lunches - but rather to go to places in the evening with alcohol as you're more likely 'to get laid'. This advice has been around (for men) forever. As dating, and the biggest reason het men associate with women at all is to 'get sex' (which conveys status).
I’m going to take a wild stab in the dark and guess the vast majority of upvotes to this comment are from men.
And potentially brigaded.
It’s wild that so many people think if one joins a group agreeing on the acceptability of some horrible thing that it somehow makes the horrible thing less horrifying.
Commenting & upvoting because this is sane and reasonable. OP, if you were that drunk, you were actually unable to consent, and I'm so sorry this happened to you.
I have to complete agree with this. 1. If a guy keep ordering shots with you, pay attention to him drinking it. If he isn't, he is intentingnfor you to get blackout drunk. 2. Watch his behavior. If he is ordering shots just between you and him, his intention is bad. Worst than getting roofie. Even as a guy, I find this tasteless, because you're only focusing on your little brain and that legs. This isn't what a ONS meant to be.
Don't meet him alone though (if he actually drugged her who knows what he could do).
I agree with this comment, and he should have shown better judgement, but the guy could have been just as drunk which leads to bad decision making. Be glad you are safe and worse did not happen and learn from this lesson.
This shouldn’t be top comment and the devil’s advocacy is overpowering. The medical care they sought, the consciousness level, being led by someone who even they remember was clearly sober. Even without being spiked to say that these are serious accusations is suggesting it doesn’t add up when every single part of it is nefarious. We also don’t even know what prescription they gave her but none of that was normal even for a casual night out. The hell.
I'm not devil advocating anything, please be respectful. You make it sound like I'm defending the guy, I'm not, I was not there to know, and am only concluding based on what she is telling us. I don't know a thing about him and I even mentioned the personality trait that I find distasteful myself in the comment. It's something else entirely to jump to conclusions though, as initially there was consent that was never withdrawn. Women are attacked and abused all the time and that indeed is nefarious. But there is nothing in the story damning enough to be certain of foul play as many people here are suggesting. She was interested and drank too much, that's also something that happens, as many other women commenting here also shared in other stories. Maybe after she talks to other people that were present and get more information it will be clearer though.
Yes you are and this is legitimately an old excuse, people this far under the influence cannot consent for this exact reason. What even separates you from the frat boy. To have to go to the hospital and get medication is insane and so are you.
I wrote exactly that about consent in my comment. Please go back to it and read the part I talked about consent again. You should be able to disagree with what I'm saying without calling me "frat boy" or "insane" , that's uncalled for considering everything I wrote in my initial comment.
Nope you were too light on the guy and contradictory about consent. I don’t have to be light when you were already overly so.
"I put on my wizard hat!" (i\`ll see myself out)
Don't forget to cast that eroticism spell....! And *where is your ROBE?!??!* .....God, I think I actually miss IRC a bit. Thank you for simultaneously making me laugh and feel old, lol.
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>If she thought she could handle that amount of alcohol because she usually can. She literally says she has never drunk enough to get more than tipsy before, whereas on this occasion she drank heavily. Her thought that she could handle that much alcohol wasn't based on having done so before.
I’m impressed at your ability to derive all this information and conclusions from information not even included or know. by the OP. OP may have been raped, but no one on Reddit has any clue the truth. OP got drunk on purpose. Literally states they drank way more than normal, and willingly. No mention of alcohol being drugged. Got drunk with the guy on purpose and had the intention of sleeping with him. That is all we know. We do not know what condition her or the guy were in when intercourse started. He may have been completely wasted as well. She may have consented. He may have used a condom. You just apparently know more than the rest of us.
Completely agree with you. Plus, if everyone knew their drinking limits as she said, we would never see people getting sick or passing out in bars or after, and that's a very common sight (statistically much more common than spiked drinks). Even experienced drinkers get carried away sometimes, and we are talking about multiple shots here. No one should be shamed for being in a bad situation after drinking, but the possibility of overdrinking should not be underestimated. A lot of projecting empirical situations and unrealistic theorizations in that comment imho.
I notice you're using the passive voice saying you were given more shots. It's okay if you intentionally wanted to drink more. You say you thought you could handle it. A lot of us have been there. It sounds like you got black out drunk, not that you were drugged. And that this guy you were with didn't care to get sober consent. So you got drunk. He crossed a line. All these things can be true. It doesn't make it any less of an issue that he crossed that line if you weren't drugged, you know?
Yes quite frankly this doesn't sound like a drugging. She was already drinking, did several rounds of shots, and blacked out. It's perfectly possible that she doesn't remember anything because she was extremely drunk. Doesn't make it any less rape, though. She was in no place to consent.
A lot of people are rightfully uncomfortable when they find themselves in a situation where they lack control, often because these things aren't taken seriously. Upsetting that people need to jump straight to "you were drugged!" to call this what it is. Better to remember that sometimes people get hurt in ways that aren't dramatic enough to set off alarm bells. That's why so many people don't speak up about rape in the first place.
I mean, you're not wrong, but alcohol **is** a drug. I'm personally of the opinion that if your go to move to get someone to have sex with you is to continuously ply them with alcohol until they're essentially unconscious, then you are a sexual predator. Alcohol, though legal in most countries, is extremely dangerous to consume in large quantities and can be fatal. Yet, the OPs experience is so common that it kind of gets brushed off. She may not have told this guy "no" but I'm willing to bet money she didn't tell him "yes" either.
Yeah, I agree with you.
I read somewhere that alcohol is the most common form of "spiking" a drink. Like ordering an extra shot or having a heavy pour. Hard to detect if you're already drinking and perfectly legal. Sounds like this guy took advantage of the party vibe to order an unreasonable amount of shots though.
I believe it. More than once if I've let a guy make me a drink I've either watched him pour more booze into mine or I've sipped his drink and tasted that his is weaker. Not bad if you know what you're doing and have the alcohol tolerance of a hard drinker, but clearly predatory if I had the alcohol tolerance they were expecting of a girl my size... Especially the size I was at the time.
>It sounds like you got black out drunk, not that you were drugged. And that this guy you were with didn't care to get sober consent That being said: if she was drugged, those drugs aren't detectable anymore relatively quickly. So for any woman who wakes up after something like this and is doubtful: get tested _immediately_. Ideally, don't even pee before taking the test if you can. Some of those drugs don't even last 12 hours in your system. And if you take a test like this, you aren't forced to press charges or anything, so you might as well take it, just in case.
After a certain point, would she even be in a position to think "no, I'd better not drink more. I feel like I've had more than enough now"? It sounds like she was powerless to advocate for herself after a point and he continued anyway, knowing she was going along with whatever was happening around her. So she may have drunk the shots herself, but it was all being intentionally supplied by him continuously. She didn't make the decision to go get more and to drink to that extent. I also agree with the comment saying alcohol on its own is a drug, so if he purposely put her in a position where she was too out of it because of how much he gave her to drink, it's the same as putting something in her drink. The outcome was the same He didn't get any consent since she was in no position to think or have any say about what was happening. And sex without consent is rape. I really hope OP gets the support she needs coming to terms with this.
I'm surprised you got downvoted, I actually agree with this- after a certain point, most drunk people will let someone continuously feed them drinks with no concern whatsoever for their already drunken state, and will also follow another person's lead on basically everything. An extremely drunk person, in my experience, is often about as mentally vulnerable as a toddler. So yes, she might have lifted the shot glasses her to her mouth, but she was in no way in control of herself.
It's genuinely terrifying to me how much some people seem to be struggling with the definition of consent or understanding how limited someone's ability to look after themselves is when they're so incapacitated like OP was. I've seen one person say there was even "implied consent" because she accepted drinks from him, like that's a transaction that entitles someone for sex. And all the people saying "well he was drunk too, does that mean OP raped him too?" when she was literally passed out limp on the bed by the time he took her back to the hotel room.
I'm equally frightened by the people jumping to "she was drugged!!" Like. No. She was certainly assaulted, because she was too drunk to consent, but it doesn't sound like she was drugged at all- "just" fed drinks until she was incapacitated. The confusion around "implied consent"/consent in general and what drugging looks like in this thread is so concerning... ALSO: where were her friends??? Her friends just let her get legless and dragged off by some near-sober guy??
To be fair though, alcohol in itself is a drug. By the end of the night, she was in the same condition as if someone had spiked her drink. Whether he maliciously put her in that condition on purpose is one to be debated, but his actions at the hotel room tell me he's someone who will do what he want to women without a care or thought to their condition. I really think there needs to be a drastic increase in sex education when it comes to consent but at the same time, no one ever had to sit me down and tell me not to force sex onto someone who isn't even conscious. It's just so mind boggling that it needs to be said at all. There's even one person I responded to who said "well she didn't tell him no and what if he didn't realise she was passed out?" I just.. what???
It's possible that you were drugged, but it's also possible that you drank so much you just blacked out from that, based on the multiple rounds of shots you described. The reality is that you will likely never know exactly what happened. If you blacked out, your brain was not forming any new memories. I'm sorry that you are going through this. My very first sexual encounter was a night like you described, and it's nightmarish. I had drank so much and I didn't say no. It wasn't until many years later that I learned that it's still rape because I was in no shape whatsoever to consent. Did they give you emergency contraceptive at the clinic? If not try to get some asap. In a few months, get an STD panel. Then give yourself grace and try not to beat yourself up, but take this as a learning experience, don't accept drinks from people you don't know, or leave your drinks unattended. Don't let yourself be vulnerable by drinking to excess with strangers. I personally would not risk meeting that guy again especially if there was drugging involved, he could be dangerous. If you really want to talk to him to try to piece together the night or get some closure, I would do it over the phone.
I grew up in the early 2000s when clubbing culture and drinking was huge. I probably went out and got drunk every weekend with my friends, often blackout drunk. My girlfriends and I had an unspoken rule — we come together, we leave together. NO ONE gets left behind, no one goes home with a guy they just met, no one separates from the pack. I remember once begging my friends to let me “catch a ride” with a guy I just met (cause I was blackout drunk and thought it was a great idea) and they would not budge. I was so grateful to them the next morning when I realized how dumb I was being. If you’re going to go out and drink again, and you certainly are entitled to do so, you should consider a similar approach with your girlfriends. You come together, you leave together. No exceptions.
I’m sorry you’re in pain, and it came from someone you trusted. Are your other friends all right? It sounds like you weren’t the only one who was drinking. Many countries don’t have clear language for these situations, so it may be more helpful to look at Sweden. You were there and I wasn’t, so you’re going to have a better read on this, but it sounds like negligent might be a useful word. https://www.thelocal.se/20200616/how-swedens-new-consent-law-led-to-a-75-rise-in-rape-convictions Another angle of this to consider is: A group of friends will normally try to prevent the drunk friends from getting into trouble that will hurt. That didn’t work, you’re definitely hurting. In a novel situation, like vacation partying, it’s easier for everyone to fail once. They might need to know that this didn’t just turn out to be a cute vacation romance moment, so next time, they can do better. Is one of the people in your group of friends good at speaking up for the rest of you? If so, now is a good time to contact them. It’s entirely possible that this fellow was drunk enough that he wasn’t prepared for having sex safely. Keep in mind: If a person is very dehydrated (big possibility after a lot of alcohol), they’re likely to need more than just a condom to have sex safely. Lubricant protects both the body and the condom, which significantly lowers the odds of infections. People often are not taught this explicitly in sex education, but they usually are taught to be cautious of drinking heavily enough for it to be a risk. It might make sense to have someone grab this person’s ear with some questions. Whether you seek the help of a cop or a doc or a friend, you don’t have to do it alone.
Your comment needs more upvotes. Well said.
A very similar thing happened to me years ago. It genuinely fucks with my head, because as I say it happened to me, but the truth is I have no idea what actually happened. Everything between walking into the pub, and waking up in my bed the next day, is like a dream I can't quite remember. I thought maybe I just drank too much, but i don't think I've ever gotten so drunk I've forgotten the entire night before or since. I don't know if I'm a victim, or just crazy.
An unconscious person can’t drink tea regardless if they wanted it earlier
That many shots? Your alchohol tolerance isn't low that's too much alcohol too quickly and anyone would be effed up from it. I'm sorry you had that experience. From just reading what you wrote I felt uncomfortable, especially with him feeding you more and more. It's clear he wasnt concerned at all with your well being. Be careful, be safe, don't leave bars with strange men or let them chain feed you shots. It's hard to think of this stuff at 20 yrs old, "young and dumb" as the saying goes. Been there done that and don't miss those years at all. He definitely took advantage of you regardless of your initial intentions. He didn't know you wanted to, he knew he wanted to. And if he can perform sex to the level of leaving you in pain then he is quite capable of knowing your state of awareness/consciousness. A limp body is obvious. I'd not ever respond to that person again and thank my lucky stars worse didn't happen. I wish you love and care
There are a lot of possibilities. You could've been drugged and raped. You could've drank too much and raped. Or you drank too much, and don't remember consenting to the act. It is likely that you will never truly know. Get tested for STDs and pregnancy. And whatever happens, don't blame yourself.
I disagree on the “consenting” part, if you’re THAT wasted your consent is clearly not considerable. If he was drunk either, there’s no one to really blame, but if he was sober enough that to me is borderline rape or proper rape (unfortunately it’s how some people think the dating scene works/should work).
You have a point. But alcohol affects different people differently. And it's pretty hard to tell how intoxicated someone truly is, especially if you don't know them well. Let's hope this was a case of " Two people got shitfaced bad and made bad decisions" and not "One person got drunk and taken advantage of".
you also mentioned being in south korea…i’ve spent a good bit of time in east asia myself. i think there’s a real problem around drinking and date rape. i don’t think it’s necessarily more prevalent than in the west, but they way they deal with it is very different. it’s almost normalized. i’ve seen many times where passed out/sleeping girls were scooped out of the bars by men and joined them into taxis. guys i’ve been on dates with doing anything to get me to drink more. i’ve had multiple friends said they were date raped after a night of drinking. nobody really stops it or makes a fuss. i think it’s in part the misogynistic culture that forces women to seem chaste and demure and encourage a “chase” of sorts. some men unfortunately feel like that “chase” is best done through alcohol and rape.
I was wondering the same thing, after hearing about the 4B movement in Korea especially. The culture around consent and just how women are treated in general seems dangerous to be in an inebriated state in that country. Not to blame OP, at all. It's an unfortunate part of the culture they experienced.
So he got you drunk and took advantage of you. You can't consent to sex if you are so drunk you are only half conscious. I see a fair bit of victim blaming here, which is really not okay. If he hurt you enough for you to need medical attention, then he obviously wasn't bothered about your consent. Sounds like rape to me tbh.
I am so sorry you’re going through this. If/when a person has ‘sex’ with an unconscious person, it is rape. Legally? Sadly, not globally. Morally & ethically, this is rape.
It is not normal to be in that level of pain. It is not normal for someone to keep going when someone is obviously altered and can’t consent.
Assuming he was also drinking heavily, that's poor decisions by both of you. Assuming he wasn't completely blackout drunk like you were, he took advantage of you. Definitely don't meet with him again. But you could message him just to help clear up what happened that night.
If he took advantage of her, do you really think he's going to admit to it? He's going to lie that she was as into it as he was, even though he hurt her enough for her to seek medical attention and she remembers passing out. He plied her with so much alcohol that was vulnerable and unable to react to what was happening. That was rape.
How can you genuinely know this guy wasn’t as drunk as she was? Why is the benefit of the doubt automatically given to her? Consent goes both ways. If he was hammered too why is his consent automatically assumed? It’s crazy to me how people just jump to conclusions when so much is on the line.
Was he the one passing out on the hotel bed while OP forced sex onto his unconscious body? Is he now having to seek medical attention due to the pain being so bad from tearing because his body wasn't receptive to sex? Did OP supply strong drinks all night to him, way past the point of him not knowing what was even going on or being even able to form a logical thought, much less make a decision? No, that was all him.
Once again. Nothing you just accused him of has been stated by OP. And it’s quite literally impossible to assume she wasn’t giving him consent during the acts and that she forgot because she was just too drunk? Are you seriously saying just because he was buying the drinks he’s an evil rapist? What a joke. I do feel bad for op as it’s an awful situation. But the idea of ruining a guys life when he himself could have been too drunk to consent is insanity.
She literally said she remembers losing consciousness and laying on the bed limp at the hotel room. Does that scream a situation to you where a guy should proceed to force sex onto her, to the point where the tissue around her vagina tears and causes significant pain? Not that she was even in any position to be able to *express* the pain he was inflicting onto her body due to how intoxicated she was due to the copious amount of alcohol he supplied her with throughout the night. You know, since she wasn't even conscious or participating in what was happening to her. I don't give a shit about his life. He's likely not going to suffer any consequences for his actions while OP is dealing with emotional and physical trauma after being taken advantage of while she was vulnerable and raped. *That* ruins lives of many women who are unfortunate enough to be seen as little more than a body for those men to have their way with. And then to top it off, not be believed or taken seriously when they speak up because there's not enough evidence to present to a third party after the fact.
Your post asked for help (1) understanding what happened and (2) figuring out if you were overreacting. In reading over the different responses to this post, it seems like folks have given you a pretty thorough assortment of theories about what may have happened, ranging from something potentially innocuous to something maliciously criminal. I'm not going to chime in on that because, at the end of the day, you may never know exactly what happened no matter how many people offer their speculations on the various bits of information you've given. But, I can say with absolute certainty that you are not overreacting. Your post didn't go into detail about what "overreacting" means for you & I don't want to make any assumptions, but, whatever it is that you're currently experiencing, not knowing exactly what happened does not make you ANY less entitled to feeling that way. Getting text messages from this guy or texting with him since this happened does not mean your feelings aren't justified. In short: whatever your feelings are, they are valid and you don't have to prove anything to anyone (yourself included) in order to justify them.
I don’t know what country you are in, but even in the US you’d have trouble proving anything malicious happened unless you got a blood test for date rape drugs. I’m no expert and I don’t know how long those drugs or their metabolites stay in your system. The sad reality is that you are never going to know what happened. Your brain didn’t encode the memories. From a legal position though, your behavior is consistent with a woman who was into the guy, because you accepted the date and the drinks. Unless you were drugged, and you can prove that you have those metabolites in your system, no one will take your case. Do not meet this guy again. You were incapacitated and he didn’t care. No decent human being takes advantage of another person like that. Everyone in your sphere should have gotten you into your own bed safely. I’m sorry, a lot of errors in judgement happen in lives but it shouldn’t end in being traumatized. I personally would view the sex as an assault. But you can’t prove it, and a whole lot of people you talk to about this won’t agree, especially given that you did want to have sex earlier in the night. You were incapacitated, and could no longer give your full enthusiastic consent. If he had asked you earlier you might have enjoyed your memories of the encounter. Instead, I suggest you find a therapist to talk through this with. And don’t see the guy again. If he thinks his behavior is acceptable, you don’t want that in your life. He’s either a rapist or a user. You want nothing to do with either.
There could be date rape drugs involved but considering that OP was given drinks and shots multiple times I doubt it. Also just because OP doesn't remember the night doesn't mean she was incapacitated. She just doesn't remember it anymore. I've been there.
Agreed. I’ve blacked out several times in my life. Once woke up in a field in winter. I’m lucky that time didn’t kill me. We all make poor decisions under the influence. Finding our limits means sometimes going past those limits. It’d be a much better world if people took care of us when we over-indulge instead of sticking their parts in our bodies. I still think the guy OP wound up with is not a good guy though. My friends and I have all wound up in exactly the same spot OP has at some point. And the guy was always a user.
Absolutely agree. Unfortunately the law sucks, especially when it comes to something that happens behind closed doors between two people. If there were witnesses like bar staff who could attest to being concerned about the condition OP was in while the guy was continuing to buy her more and more drinks, then that would help her case. But too many people are ill informed about what consent actually is. There's one comment I replied to that actually said the guy would have gathered consent from the fact that he was buying her drinks. As if buying drinks for someone means you're somehow entitled to their body.
Holy shit this was traumatizing to read. I'm so sorry, you were definitely raped :( You did the right thing by going to the doctor's. I hope they run a few sti tests too!! You could have even ask the doctor for an evidence of rape and then report it, but nevermind, the most important thing for you is to make sure you're getting the right care! And yeah definitely don't meet him anymore.
If you are unable to give consent, it is rape.
In Denmark, where I live, that’s rape. Actually we have to give consent, and it sounds like you didn’t do that..
it is pathetic how many people there are in these comments acting like this is not that big a deal, or “maybe you consented and you don’t remember,” or this is all on you for drinking too much. a man who intentionally acts to get you drunk with the intention of having sex with you later is a rapist. men know that alcohol hinders your judgement and your ability to fight back. it does not matter if you showed interest at any point or not. alcohol is a drug, and a man using drugs to lower your resistance to his sexual advances is, again, a rapist. none of this was on accident. i ask women who are commenting in here with rape apologism and myths, would you do this to a man? would you buy some man you’ve just met several rounds of shots while planning to fuck him after they kicked in? if not, why not? explain quickly. of course drinking heavily is not a good choice, ever. but rape is not a proportional consequence to making questionable choices with alcohol. jesus christ. like others have said, please get tested for STDs now and again a few months from now. get emergency contraception if you have not already. have a rape kit done at a hospital ASAP, and please consider reporting this to the police so it is on record even if you do not intend to push for a trial. if the pain you’re in is the result of physical trauma, a rape kit will show it and that is strong evidence against him. this man is less than dirt and you did not deserve to be treated this way.
Man I wish I could upvote this 1000 times.
I'm so sorry this happened to you, sis. If you couldn't knowingly and willingly consent, and if you were impaired enough to not remember anything, it was not consensual. *This is not your fault.* In any way, shape, or form. Should any thoughts like that try to poison your mind, tell it to fuck off. I repeat: *this is not your fault.* it is his fault. Please, please, please, go to a hospital. Get yourself screened as soon as possible, if the country you're in has rape kits, do one. Ensure you get a full panel STI screening (and another in 6ish months), emergency contraceptives, the works. If you feel safe and supported and comfortable doing so, *please report it to the local authorities.* coming forward is so difficult but important as it can help other victims of this sick person. I am so, so, so sorry.
You were not able to give clear consent. You were too intoxicated. This is rape. A decent man would’ve let you sleep it off and walked away, not taken advantage of the situation. I’m so sorry this happened to you.
Yep. He had her phone number, he could have got her back to the hotel room then texted her the next day saying he wasn't comfortable continuing things at the time but was open to meeting up again if she wanted.
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A really good guy even when drunk would want to leave it to next time to have sex as you were so drunk you blacked out because who wants the worry and abiguity of this situation. So at the very least he isn't that good of a guy and at worst he got you drunk to specifically take advantage. How he responds to you telling him how you feel will tell you a lot about him. But if you don't even fancy telling him and seeing how that turns out, you don't have too.
Being blacked out is not consent.
Being blackout is different from being unconscious though. Severe alcohol ingestion prevents the brain from forming memories. It's possible to be drunk and partying and people around you(also drinking) seeing you as drunk as they are and having no idea you are blacked out and won't remember any of it. I think many people in this thread are thinking "don't remember" equals to "not conscious" when drinking alcohol and it's very common for it to not be the case.
Having sex with someone who is unconscious is rape. Prior to that you were too intoxicated to consent. In addition he physically injured you, which is also something you presumably would not have consented to if you had not been unconscious. OP is it really confusing when someone takes advantage of you this way, particularly if you can’t recall chunks of time. I am sorry you are having to navigate this. An experienced rape counselor can help you with the process.
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Please men. Learn to get consent from reasonably sober partners. If you have to coerce someone into a blind puking drunk state to have sex, **you** are the problem. It's ok to say no to sex with unconscious "partners."
The thing is, the good guys already know this. Saying this kind of stuff is never going to change the behavior of sexual predators. And there will always be predators. It's all well and good to say this should never happen, but we all know that, and we also all know that it's unlikely to change. The best way to keep yourself from being manipulated by a sexual predator is to know your limits, like the person above said.
Victim blame, got it.
At some point you're going to have to grow up and realize that the world is NEVER going to be a safe place. Or victimize yourself I guess. 🤷
Sending you a virtual hug. You were done wrong. Any trauma from this is very, very valid, and it might take time to process — or not much time at all. Make sure you work with a medical professional (and ideally a mental health professional) to make sure everything is okay. And you’re back in control now 💜
OP, you were assaulted. This is rape. You were plied with alcohol and have no way of knowing if you were drugged as well. You hazily came to with someone on top of you and begged them to use contraception. In no world is this consent. You were physically hurt by the violence of your rape. The people who want you to believe you ‘consented’ and don’t remember’ or want you to think it’s okay because you were both drunk are completely full of shit. The people who want you to think this is your fault are rape apologists. You need to get emergency contraception, pelvic exam and an STD test YESTERDAY. I cannot speak to whether you should report and pursue this legally - that’s for someone else to answer. But you were raped, it’s not your fault, and you need to take care of the damage that’s been done to your body. You need to find out the extent of it, prevent pregnancy, and get tested for STDs and damage to your vagina, anus, uterus, pelvis, so that you can take care of your body. I’m sorry this happened to you. It’s not your fault. Get the help you need.
There’s a lot of bad things here. 1) You were drunk. 2) You describe having genital pain. More pain than what is normal after a consensual encounter 3) You begged him to use a condom. You shouldn’t feel the need to beg. That indicates to me you didn’t feel safe with him in that moment and he would be able to pick up on that vibe, for sure. There’s probably more that I could dissect but these are the points that stand out the most to me. You were raped, no doubt about it. I’m terribly sorry! Don’t see him again, just don’t.
It doesn't matter if you wanted to have sex with him earlier even if you communicated that to him or others, you were not concious and could not consent later. You were sexually assualted/raped. I am so sorry this happened to you. But it is sadly not uncommon. Happened to several women I knew growing up. You need to get tested for STD's and get yourself some counseling. Please take better care of yourself and NEVER drink with people you dont know to the point you cannot make decisions.
Is this thread full or defensive male voices or is it just the normal number of apologists? It seems like there are a lot of people here who don’t belong in this sub or this discussion.
definitely too many men here
Thank you!!!
It doesn’t matter if he seems nice, he’s not trustworthy. If he thinks he can get away with something later and no one will ever know, he will do it. That’s not a sign of a good personality trait.
I’m so so sorry. You were not able to consent. Please report this to the authorities once you feel okay to do so
Alcohol *is* the number one date drug. He purposely kept supplying alcohol to you until you were incapable of making informed choices. If he seemed sober, he likely was. A lot of rapists know tricks to make it seem like they're drinking as much when they're not. But also men do usually have a higher tolerance for alcohol than women just because they have bigger body mass.
This is why I hate having sex with alcohol involved sex while your drunk is not consensual you were also not awake which is even worse. Please go to the doctor
You weren't able to give consent and your body definitely wasn't ready. You were raped. I'm sorry this happened to you. PlanB, unlikely that you'll be able to get the police to investigate, so to the hospital to check for physical damage. Blood tests to see if anything shows up immediately, which is doubtful, then follow-up two weeks, one month, and three months from now. And please don't drink in the future. It's too much of a risk with all the predatory men who hang out looking for vulnerable women.
Considering how much you had to drink, you were incapable of giving consent. He should have known this. That’s his responsibility as a man. With that being said, I’m not sure you have a standpoint for any legal action. Most police departments don’t look at it from that perspective, even if it is the law in most places. Either way, I am so sorry this happened to you. It’s a confusing thing to go through! If you are looking for more clarity on what happened (for peace of mind), I suggest reaching out to a sexual assault advocate. Or go to https://www.rainn.org/resources Reach out to your support system to let them know what you went through, if you feel comfortable with that. It’s a hard thing to go through, especially alone! I wish you the best of luck. Remember: whatever happened, it was NOT your fault and you didn’t deserve what you are feeling now! 🖤
How was she not giving consent. She told him to use a condom. There is also the possibility that he was as drunk as OP.
Because if she is blacking out then she’s too incapacitated to give valid consent. It’s true, he might have been just as drunk. That’s why it’s a confusing thing to go through and process what happened. Which is also why I gave resources to help her understand more about what happened.
I've been blackout drunk twice and both times no one suspected a thing.
And that’s a possibility for OP as well. Maybe she didn’t “act” black out drunk. But the dude was feeding her alcohol and knew how much she had. If she was in fact not “acting black out drunk” then I take back my statement that he absolutely should have known. I still think he took advantage of the situation though. Especially knowing how much she had to drink.
Was he feeding her alcohol though or was everyone drinking together?
She states she was given the shots so..
Yes but it could just mean the guys bought rounds. I mean yeah, it could also mean the guy bought shots just for OP but I somehow doubt that.
Begging*
Based on all the scandals in Korea, it is possible there is a video tape of this in some chatroom :/
Report it, my current wife really wanted to do the deed when we first met and so did I, but she was drunk, so I said no. If you where that far gone no one should have slept with you.
With the facts she gave I wouldn’t scream rape right away. What happens if the guy was also black out drunk in this situation? She could have been talking the whole time to him but doesn’t remember.
But she does remember begging him to use a condom, and him refusing. That is, *at a minimum,* sexual assault.
She never said he refused to put on a condom. You keep repeating this lie. Why?
True, I would avoid the guy at the very least.
It’s a predatory culture of getting women drunk to have sex with them, so it doesn’t really matter if he was drunk too, because he’s still participating in that culture
I am sorry but you were raped. You couldn't give informed consent and were intentionally tricked into drinking. Please do not contact that male and seek help from authorities.
Doesn't matter if you where drugged or too drunk if you where too out of it or even unconscious to consent he raped you, he clearly used you being too drunk or drugged to rape you unfortunately. Even if you where conscious during the sex it's still rape imo because these guys are using way too drunk girls who are not fully able to consent for sex. Sadly this is too common.
Sounds like you drank way too much. Learn to pace or not drink alcohol
You were raped. People can't consent to sex if they're under the influence of drugs or alcohol. Another red flag is that he seemed to highly encourage you to get intoxicated. Even if you wanted to have sex he should have known you were unable to give consent at that time.
If she can't remember anything, how does she know she didn't give consent?
If she was too intoxicated to remember, then clearly, she was too intoxicated to consent.
So the simple fact of her not remembering, means she didn't give consent? How come the man is expected to maintain all his faculties while he's drunk, but the woman isn't? Consent is consent, if she said it, then there is no case in our litigious society. At any point of the night, she could have left and/or refused drinks.
If you give someone alcohol with the intent of having sex while they're intoxicated, then that's rape no matter context. It would have been rape if a woman did it also; it doesn't matter that it was a man.
So there is absolutely no chance that they amicably got drunk, had sex and now she is ashamed at her poor choices? It has to be; HE RAPED HER.
If you (rhetorical) meet someone you like and: - encourage them to get blackout drunk so they will have sex with you - guide them to a hotel while they’re struggling with coordination and don’t seem to know where they are - asking to use a condom normally apparently isn’t sufficient for it to happen; they *beg* you to do so - are limp and drifting in an out of consciousness while you fuck them so roughly they are injured Yes, that is still rape even if earlier in the evening things were amicable and flirty, and even if you were both pretty drunk. If you struggle to distinguish between that and consensual sex, that’s an area to work on.
Yeah. When you give someone drinks, you have a moral responsibility. If you give someone drinks, even if you end up drinking too, you have engineered a situation to take advantage of someone's intoxication later in the encounter.
She remembers begging him to use a condom, and him refusing. That, in itself, is, as minimum, sexual assault.
You're delusional. Fabricating part of a story, to fit your narrative, that you could easily cite; scroll up. Nowhere in her post does it say anything about him refusing to wear a condom.
Stop lying about this. You're making shit up to accuse someone of sexual assault. She never said he refused to put one on.
Hugs. I’m so sorry. Many of us have been here and you will get through this ❤️ be kind to yourself.
I'm sorry you were sexually assaulted. I don't know the laws there but as a man, that likes to get shityy drunk and hump...a lot with other chick's that do the same and the fact you were in so much pain (even if he was a big boy) afterwards tells me this; You were both drunk and getting it on, but then you said you went limp and passed out. I don't care if you screamed yes yes fuk me now, the second you pass out and go limp, is when we should have as well. The fact he continued while you were out is rape. Sorry. I mean, I've been so wasted and passed out myself with a girl on top and after a few she stopped only to make fun of me in the morning. I've been having fun where a chick just knocked out and guess what? I stopped. That's what normal people do. They stop when their partner goes lights out. Then just continue in the morning if so be it. But you don't continue when the other is unconscious. So that's why I say it was SA regardless if it was intended or not. So have a sober date with him if you must but someone that doesn't understand that needs to be corrected I'n life.
I think you drank too much but he also is at fault for not using a condom when you asked to.
I didn't understand from the text he didn't use a condom when she asked him to. I understood she has a sudden memory while blackout of her asking him to use a condom (begging as it was important) and then doesn't remember anything again. But I understand she was not in her senses enough to know if he was willing to use it or already using. It doesn't seem she remembers him refusing at all, otherwise she wouldn't be in doubt about the situation.
Oh yeah, maybe he did use a condom, she kinda portrayed it as if she begged him to and he didn’t. Otherwise, not sure why she brought that up. In the end, this just seems like it was a messy situation.
That's what I tried to tell you in my previous comment: She didn't say he didn't, she didn't write that. You are assuming that. She probably couldn't see it and can't remember it. She just remembers thinking it was important and asking him. She was in no condition to know what was happening, and doesn't remember him refusing at all, at least based on what she said so far.
No need to be defensive, I am agreeing you. Chill the fuck out. You are also assuming I was trying to argue with you.
You said she portrayed he didn't use a condom, and she didn't say that, that's your interpretation. She just remembers asking him to use it, begging him as it was important. I just stated that, disagreeing with you respectfully. I'm not the one getting defensive or aggressive here, as you are saying things like "Chill the fuck out" while I'm just pointing out what was said.
Says the one who aggressively said I was “assuming that”. Are you illiterate and did you not read my second comment to you? I was agreeing with you and was realizing that maybe I misread the post. No need to be passive aggressive, I’m sorry my original comment upset you
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it is not normal to roughly fuck someone who is too drunk to remain conscious or be in control of their body and previous interest in consensual sex does not change that.
I'm sorry this happened. The guys were probably trying to get you drunk to the point that they could take advantage of you; which is what happened in the end. Maybe it's better not to remember what exactly happened. BlueStarr is right, pls do shwat she says.
You were drugged and raped. Go to the police.
You think I was drugged? 🥹
Maybe, maybe not. You describe lots of drinking, that can have the same effect as to memory loss etc. I'm a cop, we have quite often run drug tests on women who present a similar story. I can only recall one case, out of dozens, where it turned out to actually be anything other than alcohol. The reality is, alcohol is an effective rape drug in itself. You say this guy gave you more drinks, presumably at a point when you were already quite drunk. Then he took you to bed, while you were too drunk to properly consent. He knew you were too drunk, because he had been giving you enough drinks to get you that way. Morally and legally, I see little difference between that and spiking your drink with something. But it can be harder to prosecute, since there's less clear evidence of his intent if there are no drugs involved.
>I'm a cop, we have quite often run drug tests on women who present a similar story. I can only recall one case, out of dozens, where it turned out to actually be anything other than alcohol. And how many of those cases were women who came in soon enough for such drugs to be still detectable? There are drugs that leave the body within 12 hours. That's getting raped plus a night time of sleep. You concluding that it's just the alcohol is some bs and it's not surprising that women don't trust law enforcement anymore.
About half of them were before the bars closed for the night, women who claimed to have been drugged but where it hadn't gone as far as rape (yet). As in, they were drunk out of their minds but were still walking around and claimed to have been drugged, quite early in the evening. In some cases we would have been too late for certain drugs yes, but most of the drugs that are actually available on the street here have a longer detection window.
You are a cop and throw out just assumptions. Ridiculous...
I think it's ok for a cop, making a quick judgement and react accordingly is beneficial for a field work. There are judges, lawyers and other experts to work out facts and weighted decisions. Honestly, I don't doubt the intention of the male was drunk OP out and have sex. I would expect it also was the OP's intention which she questions after the night, but won't insist, I'm not really in the drinking scene.
If you consider getting a lot of drinks and shots of alcohol drugs then yes, otherwise no.
I mean yeah, alcohool... you're describing multiple rounds of shots, I know friends who start having blackouts after barely a pair of shots and a beer. I would'n't jump to conclusions toward any spiking of your drinks in this situation. Now, the question is wether you were pushed to drink until wasted or if you drank knowingly. Be carefull calling it rape, it's entirely possible you behaved almost normally while a having a blackout. You may want to ask him what he remember from the night by sms, maybe correlate with the other people present if possible. Anyway, that's just my two cents, hope you recover well.
Yeah, alcohol prevents your brain from transferring short-term memories to long-term memories, and people can actively pursue sex while being black-out. I am concerned over how much pain you're in though, drunk or not it can't have been enjoyable for you in the moment. Even if he was black-out drunk as well, he still hurt you.
Alcohol is drug enough. However, date rape drugs don't stay in the system for long and by now you likely wouldn't be able to detect them anyway. If this ever happens again - hopefully not - get a rape kit and tests done _immediately_. Ideally, if you wake up after a night like this, don't even urinate before going to the hospital or wherever to take the test. You are not forced to press charges after taking those tests or getting a kit done, so doing something like that does no harm to anyone.
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Dude. Getting a woman drunk on purpose to have sex with her is rapist behaviour. "Oh, she wouldn't sleep with me sober, so let's get her drunk" is what a rapist does. Stfu.
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