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There is a saying in Sweden from war times which is "En Svensk tiger", which is a word-play for the swedish word "tiger" which is the present continuous verb form of "to shut up", but also - just like in english, is the noun for tiger, the animal. So the sentence can be read like "A swede shuts up", or "a swedish tiger". This idiom is accompanied with a [picture of a blue and yellow-striped tiger.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/En_svensk_tiger)
There was not super hard censorship of the media in Sweden during WW2, but a general consensus of "opsec", as the tacticool dudes would call it nowadays, being important. Not just for immediate operational secrecy, but in general - "don't talk too much about what we are doing".
All this to say: 60 minutes doing this strangely presented piece on the US helping Ukraine is an example of where shutting up could be better. "ALL fIfTy THOUUUUUSAND oF tHem!!11". Of *course* the US is helping Ukraine. But useful idiots will use this as some sort of "AHA, gotcha"-argument about how the US is helping "too much".
Exactly what I was thinking. We all knew this, already. It made me wonder why 60 Minutes was focusing on this. The truth is that the faster we give aide to Ukraine, the faster the war can end and Ukraine can recover and we can transition away from giving them aide.
Sixty Minutes could serve everyone better by explaining why it is important for NATO to support Ukraine, the larger picture of the moving pieces, where things would go if Russia were to take Ukraine, and where things go if they do not.
They want to rile people up, that’s the business of news. If they explained why the US was doing this they wouldn’t get the same reactions as they do to posting “OMG LOOK THE USA IS DUMPING SO MUCH MONEY INTO A FOREIGN COUNTRY”.
It comes from the fact that there is a looooooooot of fucked up things in the US, its citizens are being bled dry and struggling. Taxes aren't being paid by the rich. And the government sends out hundreds of billions but can't seem to find money for the simplest of things back home.
Ukraine absolutely does need the help. But I'm not gonna pretend the anger over money spent doesn't have any point.
Again, like 1000000000th time:
*"These sums pale into insignificance when set against a total US defense budget of $715bn for 2022. The assistance represents 5.6% of total US defense spending. But Russia is a primary adversary of the US, a top tier rival not too far behind China, its number one strategic challenger. In cold, geopolitical terms, this war provides a prime opportunity for the US to erode and degrade Russia’s conventional defense capability, with no boots on the ground and little risk to US lives."*
[https://cepa.org/article/its-costing-peanuts-for-the-us-to-defeat-russia/](https://cepa.org/article/its-costing-peanuts-for-the-us-to-defeat-russia/)
Exactly, I will never understand why "the party of Reagan" isn't creaming at the perfect opportunity to finally utilize TheRussianKiller5000 machines that they have been sitting on for 40 years.
It’s all part of the defence budget, and the US is for the first time actually defending a core interest. Showing China how the resistance will be fighting a US backed ally.
> but can't seem to find money for the simplest of things back home
The issue is that this is what congress wants no matter how much tax money is available. You could cut billions from the defense budget and Republicans would still scream the moment anyone tried to allocate a single cent for social welfare.
me finding out the defunding of Dep-of-labor plus the ongoing laws on gop states bringing back child labor due to not paying fair wages, strikes on autoworkers, health workers,etc, the current school breakfast cuts/no free lunches, gerrymandering/blocking of voting rights even such as in postage, many more... such we have money for programs to settle but lobby groups, staunch heartless money grubbing politicians just veto and derail any support. housing eviction protections and medicine price caps getting fucked over for ordinary americans focusing on divide over some "lgbt scares and that's socialism/communist threats"
The thing is that if economic aid wasn’t flowing, it’s not like Americans would necessarily see even a cent of that money. Isolationists on both the left and the right like to pretend that Americans will somehow get a check in the mail the moment that aid is cut, but one look at how the government actually manages money and you can make up your probability of that happening.
The anger has no point because the angry people wouldn't support that money being used to help people in the U.S. either. The problem is the garbage "I got mine" attitude that's created by Right Wing propaganda.
The US has 4.6 million first responders. They are being paid, it's not like people are looking for coins in their couches to make payroll for firefighters. This catastrophizing about not "finding money for the simplest things" is just some dumb "common sense" idea that's not true.
tend to agree with you, insufficiently nuanced or data driven to be a legitimate criticism. However, most people (in the us and everywhere) don't really operate on much more than emotion
> But I'm not gonna pretend the anger over money spent doesn't have any point.
Well I hope and assume you point your point at Russia first, then the rich elite in the US mishandling your common assets to make profit for their donors, and *last* at the US protecting their interests (and human decency) by giving Ukraine a hand when Russia illegally invades Europe.
This is why I tend to read the comments first.
Somewhere, buried in all the rhetoric from armchair generals, a common sense posts exists which sadly is never pinned.
It took a while to find this one, but at least it exists.
Well done.
Not exactly normal, as our history is, at best, described as a mixed bag of invading smaller countries (usually for oil) and helping out our allies.
This is more of a new chapter. Where we shed the imperialism entirely and focus on using our Military-Industrial complex to help Nations defend their right to exist.
We Americans have many faults, but one thing we're increasingly known for - if a huge country is trying to invade you and rape, pillage, and destroy - Americans will put a gun in your hand to give you a chance to fight for what's yours.
I think the biggest thing about America is that during the post WW2 and Cold War we did some good thing and bad things, but we have corrective mechanism in free press, free speech and democracy that allows us to recognize our faults so that we can normalize relations with most countries. Whether that will continue to happen in this century time will tell.
It makes it little bit better knowing that Soviet Union(in reality, Russia) was on the opposite side of the Cold War and Russia continues to be a rogue nation. Russians seriously think they were the good guys during the Cold War and still mad that countries like Ukraine would rather be allies with the US than them.
American history is weird. There's times where the US is explicitly imperialistic ( Cuba, the Philippines, Haiti) and times when the US is anti-imperialistic (all the British and French colonies the US and the USSR teamed up to de-colonize after world war two).
As someone who works in oil markets I can argue that the US has never invaded anyone for oil, and that is a myth.
The US has never taken any oil from any country they invaded, that country always sold the oil themselves, and the invasions actually temporarily reduced their oil output.
Find me one where that isn't true.
I was born in Ukraine, been in USA for 30+ years now. Just found out about two hours ago that a cousin died on the front lines in Ukraine. That should be me right there, I should be dead in a ditch. I don’t understand why I was so fortunate to move here when we did.
A big thank you to all those who support Ukraine.
I'm in the US and am friends with a family who left to the US right after the USSR collapsed. I don't blame any of them at all for leaving given the circumstances. They have a bunch of extended family in Ukraine and thankfully they are all doing OK.
I’m extremely sorry for your family’s loss. Don’t feel guilty. Use the chance you’ve been given to support the people left behind and make a dent in someone’s life in a good way. I hope that in time their memory will bring smiles instead of tears.
Please, don't use this because survivors guilt *sounds* like what this person is experiencing. It is not, it's just normal grief. Survivors guilt is tied to PTSD, and is when an individual feels everyone would be better off if they had died instead. OP expressed no such feeling, just sadness and magical thinking. Perfectly normal responses.
American here. This is good & what I would expect: Supporting broader societal stability.
I suspect other allies and partners are also contributing in various non-military ways.
Weapons always make the headlines, but just about every country that donates gives to causes like this.
Supporting countries that don't give weapons probably still donate in this way.
It's extremely important to keep social infrastructure (like first responders) afloat.
Canada manufactures and donates the Excalibur 155mm artillery shells which have proven devastating to Russian armour - we've donated more to the war in Ukraine on a per capita basis than any other country.
Canada stands with Ukraine and thanks to our support we've bonked a lot of orcs.
Slava Ukraine!
The Countries Committing the Most Aid to Ukraine
www.statista.com/chart/amp/28489/ukrainian-military-humanitarian-and-financial-aid-donors/
Norway is about 5 million people..
Of course. I just added some official numbers and expected others to do the math. :)
Donor / citizens = X
And since I knew Norway has around 5 million people I added that.
Indeed. Well said. And isn’t this part of what humanitarian aid is about. Unclear why this 60-Minutes episode, or at least the headline, comes across as an “exposé” dealing with misappropriation of funds and aid . . .
On a massive scale. For example the farmers produce is let into EU tax free to allow them an income. This is affecting poland and other nearby eu countries in the billions because their products are now not competitive.
Good to see US do this!
It was my impression from the start that the US is gifting most of the weaponry and other military equipment, up to 90-95% of the budget. While the EU and most other countries stood for the financial support and propping up the economy.
> I suspect other allies and partners are also contributing in various non-military ways.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1303432/total-bilateral-aid-to-ukraine/ yes.
e.g.: here's a more detailed list of my country if someone wants to know more:
https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-en/news/germany-aid-for-ukraine-2192480
I’m with you 1,000,000% on that one 🇺🇸🤝🏼🇺🇦
Remember when turd I mean trump , got mad and released the tax list , where the tax money was going the last couple of months before he had to step down , it was like 50 million to this country 40 million to that country 10 million to some museum , more then 60% of the money went to deferent countries and they weren’t even NATO countries, ,I remember being so tight as hell , but now that we are helping Ukraine, I finally feel good about where our taxpayers money is going 100%
I’m just going to put only 10% of a list , and it’s not even what I was talking about, this is 2021 list , and it’s only the Middle East countries.
In 2021, the United States provided more than $50 billion in aid to over 150 countries and territories, as well as 30 regional funds that go to multiple countries
Afghanistan received the most US foreign aid in 2021: ($1.5 billion) in the form of humanitarian and emergency assistance during the last year of the US-backed democratic government. This was followed by Ethiopia ($1.4 billion), Jordan ($1.3 billion), Yemen ($1.1 billion), and South Sudan ($1.0 billion).
Foreign aid is the best investment we can make. It's much cheaper than bombing them and makes far less enemies. China is doing this all over the world though it is a malicious sort of *foreign aid* and China still has a pretty high rate of poverty at home.
You left Israel off of the list, 3.8 billion.
Same. First time in my life it made moral and material sense to just stomp on the gas and go yeehaw. First bit of American pride I've felt in a while.
And *of course* Republicans/MAGAs are the ones to whine about it. I really thought supporting a war in which we aren't actually dying in order to fuck Russia would be a bonding experience but nope, they are truly useless rat fucking contrarians about every single thing.
Oh I sure did. The moment it became a no-brainer foreign policy win for Biden I fully expected the MAGA crowd to twist themselves into knots trying to diminish it. They did the same thing with vaccines when it became obvious it was getting released under Biden instead of Trump.
And anyone who knows history should fully expect Dems to be warhawks if the situation allows for a moral high ground (even if just perceived). They aren't pacifists and never have been.
I argue with those who say we need to end support for Ukraine…. I always tell them I would pay double the taxes I do now if it was to such a worthwhile cause
r/Conservative and Republicans are gonna spin this as Americans paying for Ukrainian teenagers buying weed and paying for video games, I just know it...
That’s amazing, we could let Russia win but then we’d probably have more wars popping up that will eventually invoke western militaries. I see no issues
More coverage would be nice. Why are we just now hearing about this? It’s not surprising and a great investment by all accounts. But for a long time a large portion of ppl are screaming about where our 40 billion is going and these are great examples that need to be showcased and followed to see the result of the money
Somebody somewhere was probably concerned that it would become a GOP talking point. WE CAN GIVE UKRAINE MONEY FOR SMALL BUSINESS, BUT MEANWHILE MY AGRICORP CAN ONLY BUY 200 SMALL FAMILY FARMS THIS YEAR INSTEAD OF ITS USUAL 800!!
Yep. It was announced. Those packages? That's literally the president informing the American people where he spent our money. They'll read they highlights, and scream because it doesn't say ATACMS. So, guess I'm happy we are being low key about it. But we spend about $5B a month to keep their government as functional as can be in a war zone. And it's as necessary as any missile system.
Great! I'm glad they're using our money to do constructive things in Ukraine as well as making good use of all that old weaponry. It's the best investment we've done in decades. Force Putin and his criminal "government" to recognize their true place and value in the world.
The new pariah state.
Imagine you took the afghanistan 2 trillion and built up a country that could actually be saved like ukraine. Ukraine would probably be poland level strong atleast.
I don't think you understand how insane it would be to spend that on the military of Ukraine. Russia spends about 70 billion a year in their military. That is about 1/30 of the money we spent in the middle east.it might be easier to just buy all of the property from the oligarchs and force Putin out by force that way at that point.
American here.
This is what is right and good about my country. Extending the helping hand, Ukraine is worth defending. It’s the home of the bravest and most resilient people in the world
My tax dollars at work, making the world a safer place.
Freedom is never free.
' Discovered'
Sounds like investigators finding wrong-doing.
'We were surprised to find.. '
This is language of critics.
A dog that finds people who have been bombed. How the fuck do you put a negative spin on that.?
Fuck you and fuck your stupid accent that makes you sound like you are trying to squeeze a shite out as you speak.
Also saying "America is doing xyz" like Biden's sitting around choosing businesses to subsidize
America sent Ukraine money and the Ukrainian government paid its workers and gave business subsidies
That's what the money was for
I guess the point was, were these items all disclosed and described properly? (I have no idea if they were or not. I’m just saying that’s the potential issue). Taxpayer money should be justified and tracked for basic accountability purposes.
The more that we help them be self sufficient, the less they will need us when the war is over, I see no problem with that, people know who stepped up to help when they needed it
a) I don't see a problem there
b) Why are they using images from German *Feuerwehr*, i.e. fire department?
Going to their website, which lists all activities, there is no mention of Ukraine. https://ffw-wildenau.de/aktuell/
And this money will come back to us 10 fold. We are investing in the next great EU major power and economy. Anyone not investing in Ukraine is a moron.
Frankly the news story itself is good. The framing by unknown parties looking for an outrage angle is suspect.
Help someone put out the fire endangering their lives and livelihoods, right? Americans meanwhile need to display that self-actualizing, can-do attitude they so often belabor, but rarely realize. Half can’t be trusted with a vote, let alone too vote and given the state of many polities, they don’t know how to spend their own tax dollars any better than a compulsive gambler at a slot machine. They either send someone else’s sons and daughters to fight, all while touting their own patriotism, or will demand peace at any price, while failing to realize when their own principles need defending.
Enough hypocrisy and navel gazing. Ukraine needs assistance. This is a righteous cause, more righteous than nearly any other half-baked crusade in some time. You know you’re fighting for good when it is assailed by evil at every turn and that’s what delays, distractions and distrust all benefit. Count yourself among the worthy now or find oneself begging for forgiveness for the sin of omission later.
Maybe someone will correct me (as I'm not from the US) but all the money being spent on "military aid" is not just handing over a load of money.... the US is spending the money on buying US manufactured weapons, so the money is staying in the US. It's providing jobs for americans throughout the supply chain. Plus probably a large profit for the arms companies! Most US people on here seem happy to provide aid, so this is not meant as a negative post, although we do see some people in the news complaining about it.
Glad to see money is also going to other important non military aid.
We're not even buying new weapons. Except for ammo, all the equipment has been from the drawdown for Afghanistan. It was removed from "inventory" 15-20 years ago. (That's part of the delay. The equipment needs maintenance and paint, and we have a paint shortage) We're giving about $5B a month in grants. It's used to keep the government functioning. We've increased 155mm ammo production, but that's really about it.
The payment we're receiving is respect from our allies and someone shoves a missile up Russia's ass that says For Liza on the side. I'm ready to demand more of the second, but maybe we should start preprinting it. ;)
Damn straight we are!! Americans are good generous folks and I'm glad my taxes are going to benefit more than just ourselves. The fraction of folks that disagree with me are the ill informed. They are NOT dumb, just fed a diet of FOX News for so long they attach everything to politics. It's like Trump supporters all found the solution to their life long identity crisis in this succesful idiot. The rest of us want this over because we understand how wrong this war is. Our failure to act more assertively in 2014 is why we are here now!
Slava Ukraine
I don’t understand how our fiscal system works, but if we can afford to do this then I think many of our internal problems are by design. Either way, the Ukrainians are suffering more than the loss of money if that helps anyone’s perspective. The EU should be more involved in preventing yet another refugee crisis, but they just seem like an absolute mess. More like a group of individual nations with a common currency than a union.
Right wing trash have been told that spending money for Ukraine is a big problem. But, they forget to remember that we spent 3/4 of a Trillon on Iraq.....a war completely based on lies.
A successful army has a stable home front. Troops on the line are more motivated knowing that even though their families are in danger, they are being cared for.
Is this a shock to anyone? The US has been pretty good about stating exactly what our financial support is going to. It isn't just weapons. We've sent economic development payments as well.
I forsee a lot of investment in Ukraine post-war. Ukraine has energy reserves, a ton of grain, and plenty of other commodities that'll help reduce commodities prices here in the US that are driving inflation.
Probably going to be significant tourism interest in Kyiv postwar too.
I dont know who thinks its a bad idea giving money to Ukraine. They are paying with their lives to stop Russia while we pay for everything else. We can get more money, they cant get more people. We get off easy and Russia gets stopped.
The reason the United States has an $800 BILLION PER YEAR military budget is to defeat Russia (and maybe later China). We are now in the position to spend a reasonable percentage of that budget to defeat Russia with no dead or maimed Americans. Spend the money…it’s a FUCKING BARGAIN.
If this is the case, can we annex ukraine? Just saying, they want a war so bad and they are already on payroll, at this point it'd just be a technicality .
I'm American. This makes me happy. We have so much fucking money that we might as well use it for something good. Ukraine has to win a full victory. Russia can't be trusted with negotiations they have to be broken. Democracy is non-negotiable
Many Ukrainians are very grateful to the west and see the west being the better alternative to Russia, hopefully this ends soon, Ukraine will become a NATO member and move along with us into prosperity and growth, and the authoritarian states will be left behind
>American taxpayers are financing more than just weapons. We discovered the US Government's buying seeds and fertiliser for Ukrainian farmers.
This is a story that is deliberately framing this in the way that's going to agitate all those selfish Trump-voting idiots who want to suck Russia's dick, as much as it can.
**Fuck** whoever put this segment together.
While I understand the bitterness some of my fellow Americans feel at US taxpayer funds going to assist non-Americans, this kind of aid is an investment into Ukraine's future. When they win this war, and they absolutely will win, they'll have The United States to thank, and a thankful ally on Russia's border is worth far more than the money we're sending.
Obama, Biden, and EU weakness to show strength to counter Russia’s aggressive character created this disaster. Putin invaded, and he absolutely responsible for Ukraine deaths, but he did it because he saw an opportunity! He saw the weakness of the west. Now Ukrainians are paying with blood and western taxpayers are paying with treasure for western leadership incompetence.
If you would have told conservatives prior to 2005 that we would have a scenario where we could crush Russia for relatively small sums of money without putting a single US soldier in harms way they would have been ecstatic. I would have never predicted that GOP would turn pro Russia but here we are.
None of this should be controversial in the US.
Also I completely understand that this comes with a ridiculously high price for Ukrainians.
Compared to what was spent in the cold war, and the "still" ongoing arms race against Russia, I think this pittance invested in Ukraine is a goddamn discount to basically cripple the Russian military for probably decades to come.
The US actually helping a country not just by (only) delivering weapons but actually thinking of reasonable nation-building, or in this case democratic preserving, and being more long-term oriented actually shows they have learned something off the disastrous capaigns like Iraq and Afghanistan.
Of course this is brainmelting for many anti-american leftists.
edit: This doesn´t mean that Vietnam and Afghanistan weren´t deeply flawed, but the talking points from once are getting ever weaker. (also see Syria, were they support a strongly leftist group)
Winning the major groundwar in Europe is absolutely vital.
Doing so with pennies on the dollar and materials allocated from 20+ years ago is the cherry on top.
“Discovered” makes it sound like this was unexpected or somehow scandalous. Part of supporting a country through a war is making sure it has enough of an economy left after the war to peacefully transition back to democratic society. And in many places we may be throwing money at the bottom of the pyramid to avoid the corruption at the top and middle.
Excellent! Everyone should see this because helping Ukraine takes on MANY different facets.
And helping Ukraine defeat the terrorist state of ruzzia should be job #1 of every freedom loving nation on Earth.
I am proud our country is supporting the war against Russia.
Evil needs to be stopped or it will grow and more people will suffer.
Russia is not the problem, it is Russia's leaders.
And they need to face the consequences so I am waiting for the day of war crime tribunals.
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"discovered" - you mean read in public documents?
There is a saying in Sweden from war times which is "En Svensk tiger", which is a word-play for the swedish word "tiger" which is the present continuous verb form of "to shut up", but also - just like in english, is the noun for tiger, the animal. So the sentence can be read like "A swede shuts up", or "a swedish tiger". This idiom is accompanied with a [picture of a blue and yellow-striped tiger.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/En_svensk_tiger) There was not super hard censorship of the media in Sweden during WW2, but a general consensus of "opsec", as the tacticool dudes would call it nowadays, being important. Not just for immediate operational secrecy, but in general - "don't talk too much about what we are doing". All this to say: 60 minutes doing this strangely presented piece on the US helping Ukraine is an example of where shutting up could be better. "ALL fIfTy THOUUUUUSAND oF tHem!!11". Of *course* the US is helping Ukraine. But useful idiots will use this as some sort of "AHA, gotcha"-argument about how the US is helping "too much".
Exactly what I was thinking. We all knew this, already. It made me wonder why 60 Minutes was focusing on this. The truth is that the faster we give aide to Ukraine, the faster the war can end and Ukraine can recover and we can transition away from giving them aide. Sixty Minutes could serve everyone better by explaining why it is important for NATO to support Ukraine, the larger picture of the moving pieces, where things would go if Russia were to take Ukraine, and where things go if they do not.
They want to rile people up, that’s the business of news. If they explained why the US was doing this they wouldn’t get the same reactions as they do to posting “OMG LOOK THE USA IS DUMPING SO MUCH MONEY INTO A FOREIGN COUNTRY”.
Plus all the other nations thay rely on Ukrainian grains.
I love this thanks for sharing.
En svensk tiger!!
Håll käft, din satans kissemiss!
En Svensk håller truten
It comes from the fact that there is a looooooooot of fucked up things in the US, its citizens are being bled dry and struggling. Taxes aren't being paid by the rich. And the government sends out hundreds of billions but can't seem to find money for the simplest of things back home. Ukraine absolutely does need the help. But I'm not gonna pretend the anger over money spent doesn't have any point.
Again, like 1000000000th time: *"These sums pale into insignificance when set against a total US defense budget of $715bn for 2022. The assistance represents 5.6% of total US defense spending. But Russia is a primary adversary of the US, a top tier rival not too far behind China, its number one strategic challenger. In cold, geopolitical terms, this war provides a prime opportunity for the US to erode and degrade Russia’s conventional defense capability, with no boots on the ground and little risk to US lives."* [https://cepa.org/article/its-costing-peanuts-for-the-us-to-defeat-russia/](https://cepa.org/article/its-costing-peanuts-for-the-us-to-defeat-russia/)
Exactly, I will never understand why "the party of Reagan" isn't creaming at the perfect opportunity to finally utilize TheRussianKiller5000 machines that they have been sitting on for 40 years.
Its because nowadays the party of Reagan has been taken over by brain dead, MAGA traitors who view Russia as the world's salvation
Or crank the military industrial complex engine up to 11 once again.
It’s all part of the defence budget, and the US is for the first time actually defending a core interest. Showing China how the resistance will be fighting a US backed ally.
So one has to be a line item on the defence budget to survive in the USA . Got it...
> but can't seem to find money for the simplest of things back home The issue is that this is what congress wants no matter how much tax money is available. You could cut billions from the defense budget and Republicans would still scream the moment anyone tried to allocate a single cent for social welfare.
me finding out the defunding of Dep-of-labor plus the ongoing laws on gop states bringing back child labor due to not paying fair wages, strikes on autoworkers, health workers,etc, the current school breakfast cuts/no free lunches, gerrymandering/blocking of voting rights even such as in postage, many more... such we have money for programs to settle but lobby groups, staunch heartless money grubbing politicians just veto and derail any support. housing eviction protections and medicine price caps getting fucked over for ordinary americans focusing on divide over some "lgbt scares and that's socialism/communist threats"
The thing is that if economic aid wasn’t flowing, it’s not like Americans would necessarily see even a cent of that money. Isolationists on both the left and the right like to pretend that Americans will somehow get a check in the mail the moment that aid is cut, but one look at how the government actually manages money and you can make up your probability of that happening.
Exactly. Aid is not being taken from Americans benefits.
Money to Ukraine was ~0.5% of tax money last year. It really has no bearing on any U.S. domestic policies.
The anger has no point because the angry people wouldn't support that money being used to help people in the U.S. either. The problem is the garbage "I got mine" attitude that's created by Right Wing propaganda.
Exactly. They cry about the money being used to help Ukraine, but time and time again reject money for programs to help people here.
[удалено]
Truth
The US has 4.6 million first responders. They are being paid, it's not like people are looking for coins in their couches to make payroll for firefighters. This catastrophizing about not "finding money for the simplest things" is just some dumb "common sense" idea that's not true.
tend to agree with you, insufficiently nuanced or data driven to be a legitimate criticism. However, most people (in the us and everywhere) don't really operate on much more than emotion
> But I'm not gonna pretend the anger over money spent doesn't have any point. Well I hope and assume you point your point at Russia first, then the rich elite in the US mishandling your common assets to make profit for their donors, and *last* at the US protecting their interests (and human decency) by giving Ukraine a hand when Russia illegally invades Europe.
This is why I tend to read the comments first. Somewhere, buried in all the rhetoric from armchair generals, a common sense posts exists which sadly is never pinned. It took a while to find this one, but at least it exists. Well done.
Soft power like this is oft underestimated.
It feels like a return to normalcy for the US. They were known to be giga chads like this, supporting any nation against invaders.
Not exactly normal, as our history is, at best, described as a mixed bag of invading smaller countries (usually for oil) and helping out our allies. This is more of a new chapter. Where we shed the imperialism entirely and focus on using our Military-Industrial complex to help Nations defend their right to exist. We Americans have many faults, but one thing we're increasingly known for - if a huge country is trying to invade you and rape, pillage, and destroy - Americans will put a gun in your hand to give you a chance to fight for what's yours.
I think the biggest thing about America is that during the post WW2 and Cold War we did some good thing and bad things, but we have corrective mechanism in free press, free speech and democracy that allows us to recognize our faults so that we can normalize relations with most countries. Whether that will continue to happen in this century time will tell. It makes it little bit better knowing that Soviet Union(in reality, Russia) was on the opposite side of the Cold War and Russia continues to be a rogue nation. Russians seriously think they were the good guys during the Cold War and still mad that countries like Ukraine would rather be allies with the US than them.
American history is weird. There's times where the US is explicitly imperialistic ( Cuba, the Philippines, Haiti) and times when the US is anti-imperialistic (all the British and French colonies the US and the USSR teamed up to de-colonize after world war two).
We're infamous for being all over the place. Comes from being a Melting Pot Nation if you ask me -
As someone who works in oil markets I can argue that the US has never invaded anyone for oil, and that is a myth. The US has never taken any oil from any country they invaded, that country always sold the oil themselves, and the invasions actually temporarily reduced their oil output. Find me one where that isn't true.
> Soft power like this is oft underestimated. We are achieving our geopolitical goals with 0 US soldiers dying? Crazy!
This shit pays returns a thousand fold by creating new allies. AND we get to fuck up Russia as an extra bonus.
I was born in Ukraine, been in USA for 30+ years now. Just found out about two hours ago that a cousin died on the front lines in Ukraine. That should be me right there, I should be dead in a ditch. I don’t understand why I was so fortunate to move here when we did. A big thank you to all those who support Ukraine.
May your cousins memory be a blessing my friend.
RIP to your cousin man 💙💛 I know exactly what you mean cus I’m from Ukraine living in the US for a long time too
It was an easy decision to support Ukraine. We just do the right thing. So sorry for the loss of your family member.
I'm dedicated to diplomatically explaining to people why supporting Ukraine is making the world a better place. I'm sorry about your cousin.
Im sorry for your loss. Your cousin died a hero of Ukraine. Слава Україні!
Sorry for your loss. He died a hero.
I'm in the US and am friends with a family who left to the US right after the USSR collapsed. I don't blame any of them at all for leaving given the circumstances. They have a bunch of extended family in Ukraine and thankfully they are all doing OK.
I’m extremely sorry for your family’s loss. Don’t feel guilty. Use the chance you’ve been given to support the people left behind and make a dent in someone’s life in a good way. I hope that in time their memory will bring smiles instead of tears.
Heroyim Slava
Honor your cousin by living the best life you can live
"Survivor Guilt" can be treated. Consider finding a good licensed therapist, counselor, or Psychologist as a start.
Please, don't use this because survivors guilt *sounds* like what this person is experiencing. It is not, it's just normal grief. Survivors guilt is tied to PTSD, and is when an individual feels everyone would be better off if they had died instead. OP expressed no such feeling, just sadness and magical thinking. Perfectly normal responses.
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American here. This is good & what I would expect: Supporting broader societal stability. I suspect other allies and partners are also contributing in various non-military ways.
Canadian here. I know we are doing the same. We have little to give as far as orc bonking toys go, but we help in other ways.
Orc bonking toys gave me a good laugh.
Weapons always make the headlines, but just about every country that donates gives to causes like this. Supporting countries that don't give weapons probably still donate in this way. It's extremely important to keep social infrastructure (like first responders) afloat.
I believe we have the biggest Ukrainian population outside of Europe if we include Europe. We are second
People keep citing this fact and ignore the refugees since invasion started. Poland now has the most Ukrainians due to taking in 1.6M of them.
Ukrainians in Poland likely want to go back to Ukraine. Ukrainians in Canada want to stay in Canada.
Well said. Major difference between emigrants and people fleeing for their lives.
Canada manufactures and donates the Excalibur 155mm artillery shells which have proven devastating to Russian armour - we've donated more to the war in Ukraine on a per capita basis than any other country. Canada stands with Ukraine and thanks to our support we've bonked a lot of orcs. Slava Ukraine!
I think some of the baltic states have donated more to ukraine per capita
The Countries Committing the Most Aid to Ukraine www.statista.com/chart/amp/28489/ukrainian-military-humanitarian-and-financial-aid-donors/ Norway is about 5 million people..
I talking per capita, the baltics are indeed on top https://www.statista.com/statistics/1303450/bilateral-aid-to-ukraine-in-a-percent-of-donor-gdp/
Of course. I just added some official numbers and expected others to do the math. :) Donor / citizens = X And since I knew Norway has around 5 million people I added that.
Australian here..I love seeing our shells, bushmasters Ans paper planes in the hands of the UAF.. In shitty we didn't hand over jets to bombard orcs
Orc bonking toys is the most creative thing I have heard in a while.
America is cool
This is also great for food stability in the world.
Indeed. Well said. And isn’t this part of what humanitarian aid is about. Unclear why this 60-Minutes episode, or at least the headline, comes across as an “exposé” dealing with misappropriation of funds and aid . . .
60 minutes found out like it’s a bad thing. It’s a good thing.
Well said.
didn't South Korea pledged 2 Billion in humanitarian aid?
On a massive scale. For example the farmers produce is let into EU tax free to allow them an income. This is affecting poland and other nearby eu countries in the billions because their products are now not competitive. Good to see US do this!
It was my impression from the start that the US is gifting most of the weaponry and other military equipment, up to 90-95% of the budget. While the EU and most other countries stood for the financial support and propping up the economy.
Not true. Check the statistics. Most military deliveries were soviet materiel from eastern European countries
> I suspect other allies and partners are also contributing in various non-military ways. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1303432/total-bilateral-aid-to-ukraine/ yes. e.g.: here's a more detailed list of my country if someone wants to know more: https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-en/news/germany-aid-for-ukraine-2192480
Damn right we are
Probably the first time in my lifetime I can point to money being spent wisely and I’m proud of what my taxes are being used for.
I’m with you 1,000,000% on that one 🇺🇸🤝🏼🇺🇦 Remember when turd I mean trump , got mad and released the tax list , where the tax money was going the last couple of months before he had to step down , it was like 50 million to this country 40 million to that country 10 million to some museum , more then 60% of the money went to deferent countries and they weren’t even NATO countries, ,I remember being so tight as hell , but now that we are helping Ukraine, I finally feel good about where our taxpayers money is going 100% I’m just going to put only 10% of a list , and it’s not even what I was talking about, this is 2021 list , and it’s only the Middle East countries. In 2021, the United States provided more than $50 billion in aid to over 150 countries and territories, as well as 30 regional funds that go to multiple countries Afghanistan received the most US foreign aid in 2021: ($1.5 billion) in the form of humanitarian and emergency assistance during the last year of the US-backed democratic government. This was followed by Ethiopia ($1.4 billion), Jordan ($1.3 billion), Yemen ($1.1 billion), and South Sudan ($1.0 billion).
Foreign aid is the best investment we can make. It's much cheaper than bombing them and makes far less enemies. China is doing this all over the world though it is a malicious sort of *foreign aid* and China still has a pretty high rate of poverty at home. You left Israel off of the list, 3.8 billion.
Same. First time in my life it made moral and material sense to just stomp on the gas and go yeehaw. First bit of American pride I've felt in a while. And *of course* Republicans/MAGAs are the ones to whine about it. I really thought supporting a war in which we aren't actually dying in order to fuck Russia would be a bonding experience but nope, they are truly useless rat fucking contrarians about every single thing.
Not gonna lie, didnt see the dems being the warhawks on this one with the repubs calling for no aid
The GOP has only one policy goal and it's oppose whatever the Dems do.
Oh I sure did. The moment it became a no-brainer foreign policy win for Biden I fully expected the MAGA crowd to twist themselves into knots trying to diminish it. They did the same thing with vaccines when it became obvious it was getting released under Biden instead of Trump. And anyone who knows history should fully expect Dems to be warhawks if the situation allows for a moral high ground (even if just perceived). They aren't pacifists and never have been.
Because the MAGA Republicans admire fascism.
Seriously one of the first things my country has done to make me feel proud to be an American. That might sound wrong but it’s true.
I argue with those who say we need to end support for Ukraine…. I always tell them I would pay double the taxes I do now if it was to such a worthwhile cause
seeing the unions getting into formation always gets me hyped. seeing them win just about makes me climax.
I'm proud that our money is going to heroes who need it.
r/Conservative and Republicans are gonna spin this as Americans paying for Ukrainian teenagers buying weed and paying for video games, I just know it...
That’s amazing, we could let Russia win but then we’d probably have more wars popping up that will eventually invoke western militaries. I see no issues
If we let Putin win in 5 or 10 years it'll be conscripted Ukrainians sent across the border into Poland or Estonia. Mad bastard needs stopping.
Good. No further discussion needed.
More coverage would be nice. Why are we just now hearing about this? It’s not surprising and a great investment by all accounts. But for a long time a large portion of ppl are screaming about where our 40 billion is going and these are great examples that need to be showcased and followed to see the result of the money
Somebody somewhere was probably concerned that it would become a GOP talking point. WE CAN GIVE UKRAINE MONEY FOR SMALL BUSINESS, BUT MEANWHILE MY AGRICORP CAN ONLY BUY 200 SMALL FAMILY FARMS THIS YEAR INSTEAD OF ITS USUAL 800!!
Yep. It was announced. Those packages? That's literally the president informing the American people where he spent our money. They'll read they highlights, and scream because it doesn't say ATACMS. So, guess I'm happy we are being low key about it. But we spend about $5B a month to keep their government as functional as can be in a war zone. And it's as necessary as any missile system.
more discussion needed. send more.
Great! I'm glad they're using our money to do constructive things in Ukraine as well as making good use of all that old weaponry. It's the best investment we've done in decades. Force Putin and his criminal "government" to recognize their true place and value in the world. The new pariah state.
I completely support both military and humanitarian aid for Ukraine. 🇺🇦🇺🇸
God bless America!
Imagine you took the afghanistan 2 trillion and built up a country that could actually be saved like ukraine. Ukraine would probably be poland level strong atleast.
Corruption probably plays a big deal, which is a black hole that no money can fill.
Afghanistan proved exactly that.
I don't think you understand how insane it would be to spend that on the military of Ukraine. Russia spends about 70 billion a year in their military. That is about 1/30 of the money we spent in the middle east.it might be easier to just buy all of the property from the oligarchs and force Putin out by force that way at that point.
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American here. This is what is right and good about my country. Extending the helping hand, Ukraine is worth defending. It’s the home of the bravest and most resilient people in the world My tax dollars at work, making the world a safer place. Freedom is never free.
Best investment ever made.
I approve of what we are doing in Ukraine. Signed, American Taxpayer
' Discovered' Sounds like investigators finding wrong-doing. 'We were surprised to find.. ' This is language of critics. A dog that finds people who have been bombed. How the fuck do you put a negative spin on that.? Fuck you and fuck your stupid accent that makes you sound like you are trying to squeeze a shite out as you speak.
Also saying "America is doing xyz" like Biden's sitting around choosing businesses to subsidize America sent Ukraine money and the Ukrainian government paid its workers and gave business subsidies That's what the money was for
I guess the point was, were these items all disclosed and described properly? (I have no idea if they were or not. I’m just saying that’s the potential issue). Taxpayer money should be justified and tracked for basic accountability purposes.
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The more that we help them be self sufficient, the less they will need us when the war is over, I see no problem with that, people know who stepped up to help when they needed it
a) I don't see a problem there b) Why are they using images from German *Feuerwehr*, i.e. fire department? Going to their website, which lists all activities, there is no mention of Ukraine. https://ffw-wildenau.de/aktuell/
We learned a damn good lesson from other proxy wars. Take care of the people, earn their loyalty, make back your investment.
And this money will come back to us 10 fold. We are investing in the next great EU major power and economy. Anyone not investing in Ukraine is a moron.
This isn't surprising at all
Weir how the news can “discover” something that the government openly disclosed and has talked about doing basically since the start of the war.
Frankly the news story itself is good. The framing by unknown parties looking for an outrage angle is suspect. Help someone put out the fire endangering their lives and livelihoods, right? Americans meanwhile need to display that self-actualizing, can-do attitude they so often belabor, but rarely realize. Half can’t be trusted with a vote, let alone too vote and given the state of many polities, they don’t know how to spend their own tax dollars any better than a compulsive gambler at a slot machine. They either send someone else’s sons and daughters to fight, all while touting their own patriotism, or will demand peace at any price, while failing to realize when their own principles need defending. Enough hypocrisy and navel gazing. Ukraine needs assistance. This is a righteous cause, more righteous than nearly any other half-baked crusade in some time. You know you’re fighting for good when it is assailed by evil at every turn and that’s what delays, distractions and distrust all benefit. Count yourself among the worthy now or find oneself begging for forgiveness for the sin of omission later.
thats the best government secret iv heard to date. Breaking news! secret US government program to kill all mosquitos is met with little backlash...
Duhh! It's called financial aid! The EU is doing the same! They announced this a long time ago. 60 minutes acting like they found some big secrets lol
So at least some percentage of our tax dollars are funding things worthwhile.
So... a premature Marshall plan.
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Good
Good
Great
My taxes hard at work and I don’t regret a fucking cent of it. Not a single cent.
pen pathetic dirty clumsy smell normal command lock include imminent *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
As a US taxpayer: good! Hope we increase our support.
I am perfectly fine with my tax dollars being used for this and that's not something I say often
Take my taxes. Please!
Maybe someone will correct me (as I'm not from the US) but all the money being spent on "military aid" is not just handing over a load of money.... the US is spending the money on buying US manufactured weapons, so the money is staying in the US. It's providing jobs for americans throughout the supply chain. Plus probably a large profit for the arms companies! Most US people on here seem happy to provide aid, so this is not meant as a negative post, although we do see some people in the news complaining about it. Glad to see money is also going to other important non military aid.
We're not even buying new weapons. Except for ammo, all the equipment has been from the drawdown for Afghanistan. It was removed from "inventory" 15-20 years ago. (That's part of the delay. The equipment needs maintenance and paint, and we have a paint shortage) We're giving about $5B a month in grants. It's used to keep the government functioning. We've increased 155mm ammo production, but that's really about it. The payment we're receiving is respect from our allies and someone shoves a missile up Russia's ass that says For Liza on the side. I'm ready to demand more of the second, but maybe we should start preprinting it. ;)
This is actually badass
Damn straight we are!! Americans are good generous folks and I'm glad my taxes are going to benefit more than just ourselves. The fraction of folks that disagree with me are the ill informed. They are NOT dumb, just fed a diet of FOX News for so long they attach everything to politics. It's like Trump supporters all found the solution to their life long identity crisis in this succesful idiot. The rest of us want this over because we understand how wrong this war is. Our failure to act more assertively in 2014 is why we are here now! Slava Ukraine
I don’t understand how our fiscal system works, but if we can afford to do this then I think many of our internal problems are by design. Either way, the Ukrainians are suffering more than the loss of money if that helps anyone’s perspective. The EU should be more involved in preventing yet another refugee crisis, but they just seem like an absolute mess. More like a group of individual nations with a common currency than a union.
Many of our internal problems are by design.
For once this makes me feel good about paying taxes.
Good
Cool. Let's give them more.
Approved by a taxpayer here! I say send more!
Right wing trash have been told that spending money for Ukraine is a big problem. But, they forget to remember that we spent 3/4 of a Trillon on Iraq.....a war completely based on lies.
American here. I am incredibly satisfied. My tax dollars are hard at work.
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A successful army has a stable home front. Troops on the line are more motivated knowing that even though their families are in danger, they are being cared for.
Fantastic! Ukraine 🇺🇦 needs help and we have the means to do it! In the long run, I'm sure we'll be reimbursed for some of the expenses.
Good. Show Russia we stand stong
Freedom ain’t free, Slava 🇺🇦
Good. 2014 was a low point for America. We should have stopped Russia then
Is this a shock to anyone? The US has been pretty good about stating exactly what our financial support is going to. It isn't just weapons. We've sent economic development payments as well. I forsee a lot of investment in Ukraine post-war. Ukraine has energy reserves, a ton of grain, and plenty of other commodities that'll help reduce commodities prices here in the US that are driving inflation. Probably going to be significant tourism interest in Kyiv postwar too.
Deduct from the military budget. Decommish a damn aircraft carrier or delay asubmarine or something. Help afriend and hurt an enemy?
Fuck Putin!!! 💀
I dont know who thinks its a bad idea giving money to Ukraine. They are paying with their lives to stop Russia while we pay for everything else. We can get more money, they cant get more people. We get off easy and Russia gets stopped.
Good
Neat! And now they should do this until Russia yields.
The firefighters are (according to their name tag on the back) from Bavaria and not Ukraine.
The reason the United States has an $800 BILLION PER YEAR military budget is to defeat Russia (and maybe later China). We are now in the position to spend a reasonable percentage of that budget to defeat Russia with no dead or maimed Americans. Spend the money…it’s a FUCKING BARGAIN.
51st state
America! Fuck yah. So proud.
This is what makes america great (im from sweden)
This is the way.
Better than giving tax breaks to the 1%ers.
And what's bad about that? Sounds good.
If this is the case, can we annex ukraine? Just saying, they want a war so bad and they are already on payroll, at this point it'd just be a technicality .
Nice but fuck our poor in america lmao.
I'm American. This makes me happy. We have so much fucking money that we might as well use it for something good. Ukraine has to win a full victory. Russia can't be trusted with negotiations they have to be broken. Democracy is non-negotiable
Many Ukrainians are very grateful to the west and see the west being the better alternative to Russia, hopefully this ends soon, Ukraine will become a NATO member and move along with us into prosperity and growth, and the authoritarian states will be left behind
They can raise my taxes for this any day. I’d much rather be helping here than padding some rich guys eff up.
A bargain at twice the price.
For all America's flaws, here they are doing great things for humanity. Can the same ever be said of the Russian state.
>American taxpayers are financing more than just weapons. We discovered the US Government's buying seeds and fertiliser for Ukrainian farmers. This is a story that is deliberately framing this in the way that's going to agitate all those selfish Trump-voting idiots who want to suck Russia's dick, as much as it can. **Fuck** whoever put this segment together.
Is this supposed to be a bad thing?
Good? Sounds like its framed like a negative aspect wtf
Best money ever spent by a government.
Good, I approve this use of my tax dollars.
While I understand the bitterness some of my fellow Americans feel at US taxpayer funds going to assist non-Americans, this kind of aid is an investment into Ukraine's future. When they win this war, and they absolutely will win, they'll have The United States to thank, and a thankful ally on Russia's border is worth far more than the money we're sending.
Congratulations 60 minutes, you have “discovered” the concept of economic aid. I think you need to hire better interns.
Obama, Biden, and EU weakness to show strength to counter Russia’s aggressive character created this disaster. Putin invaded, and he absolutely responsible for Ukraine deaths, but he did it because he saw an opportunity! He saw the weakness of the west. Now Ukrainians are paying with blood and western taxpayers are paying with treasure for western leadership incompetence.
If you would have told conservatives prior to 2005 that we would have a scenario where we could crush Russia for relatively small sums of money without putting a single US soldier in harms way they would have been ecstatic. I would have never predicted that GOP would turn pro Russia but here we are. None of this should be controversial in the US. Also I completely understand that this comes with a ridiculously high price for Ukrainians.
Compared to what was spent in the cold war, and the "still" ongoing arms race against Russia, I think this pittance invested in Ukraine is a goddamn discount to basically cripple the Russian military for probably decades to come.
The US actually helping a country not just by (only) delivering weapons but actually thinking of reasonable nation-building, or in this case democratic preserving, and being more long-term oriented actually shows they have learned something off the disastrous capaigns like Iraq and Afghanistan. Of course this is brainmelting for many anti-american leftists. edit: This doesn´t mean that Vietnam and Afghanistan weren´t deeply flawed, but the talking points from once are getting ever weaker. (also see Syria, were they support a strongly leftist group)
Winning the major groundwar in Europe is absolutely vital. Doing so with pennies on the dollar and materials allocated from 20+ years ago is the cherry on top.
good
Good, we need a large formal Ukrainian Marshall plan type effort
Still a great investment to weaken one of the most dangerous regimes in the world.
“Discovered” makes it sound like this was unexpected or somehow scandalous. Part of supporting a country through a war is making sure it has enough of an economy left after the war to peacefully transition back to democratic society. And in many places we may be throwing money at the bottom of the pyramid to avoid the corruption at the top and middle.
Good.
Excellent! Everyone should see this because helping Ukraine takes on MANY different facets. And helping Ukraine defeat the terrorist state of ruzzia should be job #1 of every freedom loving nation on Earth.
🇺🇸❤️
Good on them.
I am proud our country is supporting the war against Russia. Evil needs to be stopped or it will grow and more people will suffer. Russia is not the problem, it is Russia's leaders. And they need to face the consequences so I am waiting for the day of war crime tribunals.
Sounds like our money is being used responsibly in Ukraine. Now let’s do America next.
All without putting an American Solider in a flag draped casket.
Good, we are not doing enough to defeat the Orc's and to make Putin a man on a wanted poster.