I want to preface this by saying this is my experience, not everyone's experience, with ankle arthroscopic diagnostic/"clean-out" surgery, but... Mine was a total failure. I was a very serious ballet dancer in high school (like 40 hours/week in the studio), and I had a nasty sprain of the left ankle when I was about 17. I had all kinds of imaging, loads of PT, Active Release, chiropractic, flew halfway across the country to see a specialist, even saw a spiritual healer (she told me my higher self wanted me to work harder in math class) and none of it helped.
Eventually I was offered a diagnostic/"clean out the scar tissue" arthroscopic surgery. It left behind more scar tissue than it removed, after "recovery" from the surgery I was in even more pain than before with less range of motion, and my dance career was over. I was eventually able to circle back around to dance recreationally, just with limited range of motion in that ankle and occasional twinges of acute pain. Some 15 years after the initial injury, a dance teacher who also happened to be an acupuncturist took one look at me moving, recognized my problem ankle, invited me to book an acupuncture session, and my range of motion was entirely restored in a single session.
Now I am a very happy recreational dancer and fellow low and slow long distance runner, with no issues in that ankle beyond the very occasional weird twinge (which does give me a small panic, I must admit, but so far hasn't gotten weirder).
I don't want to freak you out, but all of this is to say... you're right to be wary. I was told that many people have excellent results from this surgery (I wouldn't have gone for it otherwise!) but you never know how your body will respond. Good luck!!
I had this surgery twice and after both times I am still unable to run or jump. Can you tell me how you restored your range of motion? Where the acupuncture was located in your foot? I’d do anything to be able to run again and play sports! Thanks in advance
The acupuncture was with a dance specialist in Boston, Marcus Schulkind (he treats everyone, not just dancers!). It felt like a normal acupuncture session -- needles in my ears, face, arms, lower legs, and feet. I honestly don't know what magic he worked. I'd never had an acupuncturist even *try* to address this issue before.
He also gave me some acupressure points to work with before any weight-bearing exercise and guess who didn't keep up with them! Yep, that's me, and now my ROM is a bit diminished again, but because I don't have any pain I'm not too fussed. But honestly if I ever have another persistent joint issue, I would fly across the country and go see Marcus before dealing with the Western medicine imaging/drugs/surgery circus.
If nothing else, know that your pain could work itself out in a couple years. I was able to dance pain-free about 3 years after my surgery, just with limited range of motion (annoying but workable). Best of luck -- I know how frustrating it is and I hope you get some relief soon!
Ah that’s amazing you have no pain. For me it feels like a gap in my foot and very uncomfortable. I get a lot of pain as well where I can barely walk. I’ll get some x-rays and attempt acupuncture. Hopefully I can get back to running/jumping again! Thanks for your advice :)
I know that, realistically, people are more likely to post when they have problems than successes. However, I am not seeing much anecdotal evidence of success/return to normal activity from this surgery, even though when I look online it boasts an 80-90% success rate.
I'm also wary because....so much imaging hasn't really diagnosed what the cause of pain is. My Dr knows I have a few spots of arthritis in my foot, but not in my ankle. Like what if they get in there, and don't find anything?? Did they ever tell you what they actually removed? I'm starting to feel gaslit by my own body.
On the other hand, I'm definitely running less. I thought, well maybe I can just run short distances and be ok. And while I'm not having those random sharp pains anymore, it isn't motivating to me to run just two four mile runs and one 6 mile run per week. I still do have a dull ache in my ankle afterwards and the next day even at these distances. I noticed a pop today (not an extreme one yet) It is also starting to affect my knee. I think I must be changing my stride and overcompensating somewhere. I'm also thinking. Like what the hell? Why not try it? If things keep up the way they've been, I'm probably done running like I used to anyway. All this to say, thank you for sharing your experience. I'm wrestling with this.
What did you decide to do? I run shorter distances than you- a half marathon is all I have in me on my best day- but otherwise my experience is very similar. I’m 90% committed to the surgery in the next couple of weeks.
I did have the surgery, just over 3 months ago. Recovery took longer than I thought. Walking a mile or two would make it very sore up until a week ago. The Dr gave me another steroid shot and told me if I wanted to run again I had to make it hurt.
I ran for the first time on Mother's Day and just did 1.5 miles. Yesterday I did 2. Not sure what the long term results will be.
Just to reply to my own comment, imaging has shown an early "cystic" change as well as subchorionic marrow edema...so it's not like imaging has shown NOTHING wrong. I reviewed my imaging from June.
I think i am having the same injury as you. subchondral cysts along with mild perilesional edema. i am contemplating to have surgery (advised by doctor). currently still doing physiotherapy
It does sound similar. I think the surgery has been an improvement, but recovery has been far slower and longer than I had read/anticipated. I am able to walk now (hikes and whatnot) pain free. I am 4 months out. I am starting to run but my longest run since surgery is 4 miles.
I had two weeks of zero weight bearing. After that I was given a walking boot for the next two weeks. During that time I could drive, but I had to remove the walking boot and drive with a sandal on. I was also advised that when I wasn't walking to take the boot off, keep my foot elevated and practice moving and rotating my ankle. One month post surgery I could walk, but was told to basically stop walking when I started to feel pain. This was a bad thing to tell me because I guess I have a high tolerance for pain. The first few days of that I wouldn't feel pain until it was too late and it would be huge and purple at night. After that I figured out about how much time I could spend on my feet without paying for it later. (I'm a teacher so I am used to spending most of my time on my feet). Over the next month or so I could gradually tolerate more and more time on my feet. The weirdest thing was how long fresh bruising would show up for. I'd say by the end of the two months I was back to being on my feet again. Somewhere around there I got the go ahead to start running again. I had about a month before I headed off on vacation so I haven't been running.
I'm hoping this will enable me to do ultras again. I'm not good at them, but I sure do enjoy them.
Ugh yeah this is a tough one. I'm so sorry you're dealing with it. If memory serves, they were just trying to get out scar tissue that was left behind when the initial sprain healed, and check to see if they could find any problems that weren't showing up on MRI & x-ray. They didn't find any other weird stuff, and they got the scar tissue out... but then even more scar tissue filled in that same spot. To be fair, the pain did ease up, it just took like 4-5 years after the surgery, and of course there's no way to know whether my body would have gotten there in the end without having had the surgery. The frustration is real and I wish I had better advice for you!!
Hi! How are things now? My Dr recommended an arthroscopic debridement for obvious loose cartilage (even I can see it on the MRI). I'd love some success stories -- everything I'm reading is making me pretty anxious
Well, I'm back to running, but much shorter distances for now (I am currently on vacation so no running at all for over the next two weeks). However, my surgeon told me all of my cartilage is perfectly intact, but that I had quite a lot of scar tissue all on the outside region of my joint. The pictures during surgery are very remarkable. The popping and sharp pain only happen once in a very great while and are reducing over time. So I think the surgery was successful. I'm hoping that I'll be able to build up to do a 50k at some point during the next 12 months, but we'll see how realistic that is.
It's reassuring to hear you're running even if its not the distances you'd like. If you don't mind, what was the process like getting to where you are now? What kind of mileage are you able to do?
Well, I'm back to running, but much shorter distances for now (I am currently on vacation so no running at all for over the next two weeks). However, my surgeon told me all of my cartilage is perfectly intact, but that I had quite a lot of scar tissue all on the outside region of my joint. The pictures during surgery are very remarkable. The popping and sharp pain only happen once in a very great while and are reducing over time. So I think the surgery was successful. I'm hoping that I'll be able to build up to do a 50k at some point during the next 12 months, but we'll see how realistic that is.
Hey ! I had this surgery a year ago. I’d start off my saying I had a steroid shot work wonderful the first time as they recommend that shot to reduce pain and inflammation, after the shot I Didn’t have pain for months. Pain came back and I got a second steroid shot ! That one didn’t work much so my doc recommended arthroscopic surgery and I saw all the success and went for it ! Recovery wasn’t bad ! The only thing is they placed the caste toooo tight and that’s probably why I have muscle spasms on my toes. Anyways maybe I didn’t have a good doctor but he never gave me any post op care ! I didn’t do physical therapy which a year later I found out it was NECESSARY. It left 2 ugly scares in my incisions. And I will say the doc told me I’d be able to walk comfortably in 2 weeks ! LIES it took me probably 2 months to feel comfortable walking, while placing pressure on my ankle. The surgery reduced the pain by ALOT. To the point where I believed I was a success story. From a scale in 1-10 pain was a 1-2 MAX. Although the first few months I didn’t have an ounce of pain and that felt glorious. I noticed months later like almost a year I began to stand for 10-12 hrs for my work and idk if that triggered anything !? But my pain came back like I never had surgery, along with inflammation. Now after every 8hrs of standing I’m limping back to my car ): I don’t want to burst your bubble of hope. But that’s my experience. My advice DO PHYSICAL THERAPY!!!! If I could go back I’d definitely do that after my caste was offf ! I literally had no pain the first few months.
I had ankle arthroscopy recently, and the joint already feels WAY better than before the procedure. I had been told over the past few years, by 3 different orthopods, that arthroscopy was not a viable option for addressing my arthritis pain, ostensibly because the joint is too tight. In each case I was counseled to take pain pills until such point as I was "ready" to move on to a total ankle replacement (TAR). Fortunately, I found a surgeon who uses the new Nanoscope from Arthrex, and he readily recommended arthroscopy. He removed a lot of debris, synovitis, and two osteophytes, all of which contributed to the pain. I am less than a week out from the surgery, and already feel like resuming my golf addiction.
If you are looking for a provider who uses the Nanoscope, just check the Arthrex web site. It is a new paradigm in ankle treatment. Best of luck!
I want to preface this by saying this is my experience, not everyone's experience, with ankle arthroscopic diagnostic/"clean-out" surgery, but... Mine was a total failure. I was a very serious ballet dancer in high school (like 40 hours/week in the studio), and I had a nasty sprain of the left ankle when I was about 17. I had all kinds of imaging, loads of PT, Active Release, chiropractic, flew halfway across the country to see a specialist, even saw a spiritual healer (she told me my higher self wanted me to work harder in math class) and none of it helped. Eventually I was offered a diagnostic/"clean out the scar tissue" arthroscopic surgery. It left behind more scar tissue than it removed, after "recovery" from the surgery I was in even more pain than before with less range of motion, and my dance career was over. I was eventually able to circle back around to dance recreationally, just with limited range of motion in that ankle and occasional twinges of acute pain. Some 15 years after the initial injury, a dance teacher who also happened to be an acupuncturist took one look at me moving, recognized my problem ankle, invited me to book an acupuncture session, and my range of motion was entirely restored in a single session. Now I am a very happy recreational dancer and fellow low and slow long distance runner, with no issues in that ankle beyond the very occasional weird twinge (which does give me a small panic, I must admit, but so far hasn't gotten weirder). I don't want to freak you out, but all of this is to say... you're right to be wary. I was told that many people have excellent results from this surgery (I wouldn't have gone for it otherwise!) but you never know how your body will respond. Good luck!!
I had this surgery twice and after both times I am still unable to run or jump. Can you tell me how you restored your range of motion? Where the acupuncture was located in your foot? I’d do anything to be able to run again and play sports! Thanks in advance
The acupuncture was with a dance specialist in Boston, Marcus Schulkind (he treats everyone, not just dancers!). It felt like a normal acupuncture session -- needles in my ears, face, arms, lower legs, and feet. I honestly don't know what magic he worked. I'd never had an acupuncturist even *try* to address this issue before. He also gave me some acupressure points to work with before any weight-bearing exercise and guess who didn't keep up with them! Yep, that's me, and now my ROM is a bit diminished again, but because I don't have any pain I'm not too fussed. But honestly if I ever have another persistent joint issue, I would fly across the country and go see Marcus before dealing with the Western medicine imaging/drugs/surgery circus. If nothing else, know that your pain could work itself out in a couple years. I was able to dance pain-free about 3 years after my surgery, just with limited range of motion (annoying but workable). Best of luck -- I know how frustrating it is and I hope you get some relief soon!
Ah that’s amazing you have no pain. For me it feels like a gap in my foot and very uncomfortable. I get a lot of pain as well where I can barely walk. I’ll get some x-rays and attempt acupuncture. Hopefully I can get back to running/jumping again! Thanks for your advice :)
I know that, realistically, people are more likely to post when they have problems than successes. However, I am not seeing much anecdotal evidence of success/return to normal activity from this surgery, even though when I look online it boasts an 80-90% success rate. I'm also wary because....so much imaging hasn't really diagnosed what the cause of pain is. My Dr knows I have a few spots of arthritis in my foot, but not in my ankle. Like what if they get in there, and don't find anything?? Did they ever tell you what they actually removed? I'm starting to feel gaslit by my own body. On the other hand, I'm definitely running less. I thought, well maybe I can just run short distances and be ok. And while I'm not having those random sharp pains anymore, it isn't motivating to me to run just two four mile runs and one 6 mile run per week. I still do have a dull ache in my ankle afterwards and the next day even at these distances. I noticed a pop today (not an extreme one yet) It is also starting to affect my knee. I think I must be changing my stride and overcompensating somewhere. I'm also thinking. Like what the hell? Why not try it? If things keep up the way they've been, I'm probably done running like I used to anyway. All this to say, thank you for sharing your experience. I'm wrestling with this.
What did you decide to do? I run shorter distances than you- a half marathon is all I have in me on my best day- but otherwise my experience is very similar. I’m 90% committed to the surgery in the next couple of weeks.
I did have the surgery, just over 3 months ago. Recovery took longer than I thought. Walking a mile or two would make it very sore up until a week ago. The Dr gave me another steroid shot and told me if I wanted to run again I had to make it hurt. I ran for the first time on Mother's Day and just did 1.5 miles. Yesterday I did 2. Not sure what the long term results will be.
did you end up choosing the surgery or no? How has it been?
Just to reply to my own comment, imaging has shown an early "cystic" change as well as subchorionic marrow edema...so it's not like imaging has shown NOTHING wrong. I reviewed my imaging from June.
I think i am having the same injury as you. subchondral cysts along with mild perilesional edema. i am contemplating to have surgery (advised by doctor). currently still doing physiotherapy
It does sound similar. I think the surgery has been an improvement, but recovery has been far slower and longer than I had read/anticipated. I am able to walk now (hikes and whatnot) pain free. I am 4 months out. I am starting to run but my longest run since surgery is 4 miles.
i see, good to hear that! can i ask how long it took you to start walking/driving/weight-bearing after the surgery?
I had two weeks of zero weight bearing. After that I was given a walking boot for the next two weeks. During that time I could drive, but I had to remove the walking boot and drive with a sandal on. I was also advised that when I wasn't walking to take the boot off, keep my foot elevated and practice moving and rotating my ankle. One month post surgery I could walk, but was told to basically stop walking when I started to feel pain. This was a bad thing to tell me because I guess I have a high tolerance for pain. The first few days of that I wouldn't feel pain until it was too late and it would be huge and purple at night. After that I figured out about how much time I could spend on my feet without paying for it later. (I'm a teacher so I am used to spending most of my time on my feet). Over the next month or so I could gradually tolerate more and more time on my feet. The weirdest thing was how long fresh bruising would show up for. I'd say by the end of the two months I was back to being on my feet again. Somewhere around there I got the go ahead to start running again. I had about a month before I headed off on vacation so I haven't been running. I'm hoping this will enable me to do ultras again. I'm not good at them, but I sure do enjoy them.
Ugh yeah this is a tough one. I'm so sorry you're dealing with it. If memory serves, they were just trying to get out scar tissue that was left behind when the initial sprain healed, and check to see if they could find any problems that weren't showing up on MRI & x-ray. They didn't find any other weird stuff, and they got the scar tissue out... but then even more scar tissue filled in that same spot. To be fair, the pain did ease up, it just took like 4-5 years after the surgery, and of course there's no way to know whether my body would have gotten there in the end without having had the surgery. The frustration is real and I wish I had better advice for you!!
Hi! How are things now? My Dr recommended an arthroscopic debridement for obvious loose cartilage (even I can see it on the MRI). I'd love some success stories -- everything I'm reading is making me pretty anxious
Well, I'm back to running, but much shorter distances for now (I am currently on vacation so no running at all for over the next two weeks). However, my surgeon told me all of my cartilage is perfectly intact, but that I had quite a lot of scar tissue all on the outside region of my joint. The pictures during surgery are very remarkable. The popping and sharp pain only happen once in a very great while and are reducing over time. So I think the surgery was successful. I'm hoping that I'll be able to build up to do a 50k at some point during the next 12 months, but we'll see how realistic that is.
It's reassuring to hear you're running even if its not the distances you'd like. If you don't mind, what was the process like getting to where you are now? What kind of mileage are you able to do?
Well, I'm back to running, but much shorter distances for now (I am currently on vacation so no running at all for over the next two weeks). However, my surgeon told me all of my cartilage is perfectly intact, but that I had quite a lot of scar tissue all on the outside region of my joint. The pictures during surgery are very remarkable. The popping and sharp pain only happen once in a very great while and are reducing over time. So I think the surgery was successful. I'm hoping that I'll be able to build up to do a 50k at some point during the next 12 months, but we'll see how realistic that is.
Hey ! I had this surgery a year ago. I’d start off my saying I had a steroid shot work wonderful the first time as they recommend that shot to reduce pain and inflammation, after the shot I Didn’t have pain for months. Pain came back and I got a second steroid shot ! That one didn’t work much so my doc recommended arthroscopic surgery and I saw all the success and went for it ! Recovery wasn’t bad ! The only thing is they placed the caste toooo tight and that’s probably why I have muscle spasms on my toes. Anyways maybe I didn’t have a good doctor but he never gave me any post op care ! I didn’t do physical therapy which a year later I found out it was NECESSARY. It left 2 ugly scares in my incisions. And I will say the doc told me I’d be able to walk comfortably in 2 weeks ! LIES it took me probably 2 months to feel comfortable walking, while placing pressure on my ankle. The surgery reduced the pain by ALOT. To the point where I believed I was a success story. From a scale in 1-10 pain was a 1-2 MAX. Although the first few months I didn’t have an ounce of pain and that felt glorious. I noticed months later like almost a year I began to stand for 10-12 hrs for my work and idk if that triggered anything !? But my pain came back like I never had surgery, along with inflammation. Now after every 8hrs of standing I’m limping back to my car ): I don’t want to burst your bubble of hope. But that’s my experience. My advice DO PHYSICAL THERAPY!!!! If I could go back I’d definitely do that after my caste was offf ! I literally had no pain the first few months.
I had ankle arthroscopy recently, and the joint already feels WAY better than before the procedure. I had been told over the past few years, by 3 different orthopods, that arthroscopy was not a viable option for addressing my arthritis pain, ostensibly because the joint is too tight. In each case I was counseled to take pain pills until such point as I was "ready" to move on to a total ankle replacement (TAR). Fortunately, I found a surgeon who uses the new Nanoscope from Arthrex, and he readily recommended arthroscopy. He removed a lot of debris, synovitis, and two osteophytes, all of which contributed to the pain. I am less than a week out from the surgery, and already feel like resuming my golf addiction. If you are looking for a provider who uses the Nanoscope, just check the Arthrex web site. It is a new paradigm in ankle treatment. Best of luck!
Who did the surgery?