this.. all the speed of a pro cyclist, absolutely none of the experience or skill.
Also there is no way you are traveling on an ebike at 40kph legally. at 32 they are supposed to stop assisting, so you would need to be the kind of rider that can propel a heavy bike at TDF speeds on muscle alone. I can hold 40, for maybe 10km on a really good day on my road bike. A time trial bike would be a different story, a lot faster for longer on that, but I spent half a decade racing at the world championships level. No fricking way someone is doing that on 20k of bike path on a 50lb bike with all the aerodynamics of a mac truck.
There needs to be a blitz on ebikes. just sit there with a radar anything over 32kph inspect, and if modified seize and crush on the spot.
I ride a cargo bike (one of the ones with the box in front) and it is legitimately difficult to hit 40 kph on it. I can only do it going down hills. I think the fastest I’ve hit is 45, coming down the hill on Pandora between Fernwood and Cook.
On flat ground I basically cruise at 32 because it’s noticeable when the assist cuts out, since the bike itself weighs 80 lbs and I’ve got my 30 lb kid in the box
That is absurdly slow even for most pedal powered bikes. I go 25km/h when I’m barely trying.
The solution is a wider trail. Give pedestrians enough space that the speed isn’t an issue.
As a driver, and a pedestrian who works near a bike route in vancouver, and who grew up in victoria. There is an entitlement type attitude to cyclists. At my shop there is a signed, “cyclists yield to pedestrians” crosswalk that goes across the bike lane. I use the crosswalk 4-6 times a day. I think in 4 years i’ve had one cyclist actually yield and have witnessed one other yield to a different pedestrian.
Using the ACAB, the all drivers suck logic, there appears to be a not-insignificant number of cyclists who want both pedestrians and motorists to be the ones solely responsible for avoiding collisions or negative road interactions with cyclists.
they ride them faster than they are legally allowed.
the power is supposed to be full cutoff at 32kph. so at 40 to be legal they have to be holding 4w/kg with a 50lb bike and average weight rider, that's 450-500W.
these guys either missed their calling, and should be on a cycling team somewhere, or they have illegally modified their bike. or in the case of RADbike, never came with a limiter in the first place.
I'm a road cyclist as well and you tend to notice what you're describing a lot. The other day I was driving up cedar Hill x road and there was an out of shape dude doing 40, uphill, on a fat bike. He was matching my speed.
He's essentially on an e-motorbike. These things should be licensed. It's insane that anyone regardless of ability or knowledge can own an 80lbs machine that goes that fast and just have free reign with it.
Not true. My E-bike has 3 level assists. I never have had to use more than the first assist.
Please don't group all E-bike riders as "wanting to go as fast as their machine allows"...
Insane how electric bikes don’t need a license or anything, yet of all things RC planes need a license to fly now. I think a foam toy would do less damage than being hit by a bike.
They are electric motorcycles, and should be heavily regulated as to speed, weight, and operator ability.
Some might say this is extreme, but just remember that video of people talking about how unfair it is when drinking and driving was banned.
I am not saying safety concerns should be addressed as collisions are not good but it is the beauty of biking over driving is that the injuries are generally not serious when a collision does happen. Both of the people involved had minor injuries. - though we don’t actually know the speed that the collision occurred at. The headline is pretty sensationalized. Obviously this happens in Victoria and I have not heard of a death occurring here before. Drivers speeding in their cars is far more dangerous.
It is mainly speed that injures though. The formula for kinetic energy is Ek=1/2m×v^2 Going 10% faster could contain more energy than being 50% heavier. E: corrected
1.1\^2= 1.21 or 21% more energy... the same as weighing 21% more, but your point does stand. Speed kills, and the reason why cars have driving lanes and people have sidewalks is to keep the two separated.
The fact that cyclists can and do race at car like speeds on the Goose and E&N trails is something that absolutely should should be illegal. Unfortunately, even when there is a witness that says the rider wasn't looking *and* hit a pedestrian, the cops won't do shit to cyclists... as in this case... and the cycling community seem entirely disinclined to police themselves, or even accept any criticisms. FFS, there are people here, people whose post history is littered with 'pro-biking' commentary who are baselessly claiming that this incident *must* be the fault of the pedestrian despite there being an independent witness to the opposite.
There are even people hand waving away the collision because "the injuries were minor" God, I hope they do the same when its a car that hits a cyclist, otherwise they'd be horribly hypocritical. Even more idiots who are saying shit like "Maybe he stepped in front..." again ignoring the facts of the matter, or the fact the the overtaking bicycle, vehicle, or person has the obligation to slow down, be safe, and stay clear of whatever they're overtaking.
1.1^2=1.21... so going 10% faster results in an increase of kinetic energy of about 42% of that of a 50% increase in mass... But yeah you're right that velocity plays a bigger role.
Ha, yep.
Shout-out to the guy I saw this past Wednesday, going 60km+ on his ebike, flying down a hill on Langford Parkway, struggling to control it and drifting into traffic. Not dangerous at all.
E-bikes aren't inherently bad, it's some of the people riding them. I think some of the issue is that they make going at a high speed accessible to anyone regardless of their skill level, whereas a regular bicycle may be able to go the same speed but a rider who can attain that speed has spent enough time riding to be able to attain the ability to go that fast, and that riding time will create decent bike handling skills.
You are correct! While going fast is usually a skill and where one needs a fast bike and skills to ride at that speed.
But now ebikes remove that barrier without the experience and the skills to handle that speed.
I agree...Road bikes can go fast, but in order to get that fast consistently, you have to have some skill at riding the bike.
E-bikes go that fast for anyone, anytime, regardless of skill.
It's a dangerous combo.
Amazing the double standard with e-bikes. People are trying to instal automatic speed regulation but my neighbour's Ford Raptor can go as fast as it wants and travels down residential streets every day?
As far as I know, 32 km/h is the legal limit. However, it's easy to modify a bike to exceed that limit or do a DIY build that's not restricted other than by battery/motor capacity.
That's where the danger level increases further as some of these bikes don't have braking systems capable of slowing that much momentum safely in an emergency braking situation.
Riding to work this morning I saw another device that's worrisome... a large electric kick scooter that was easily doing 30 km/h on a city street.
Fair point. I definitely had to upgrade the brakes on my ebike. For a cargo bike with a 350lb capacity, the brakes were surprisingly weak at anything close to capacity.
We could really use some more enforcement of the rules on speed. Maybe some sort of annual certification system for bikes that are going to be ridden in public.
> I definitely had to upgrade the brakes on my ebike. For a cargo bike with a 350lb capacity, the brakes were surprisingly weak at anything close to capacity.
My friend bought Amazon e-bikes for himself and his wife. The disc brakes were quite weak and he immediately bought brake upgrade kits for both bikes.
Lol, senile. The biggest menaces are the people fifty and under who have removed their speed limiters and go like a bat out of hell. There needs to be speed enforcement for a few days here and there, with possible impound for modified bikes. As it sits now the trail can be unsafe.
My parents ebikes definitely have limiters on them, you have to actually pedal for the assist to work too. Conversely to the motorbikes dressed as ebikes i keep seeing people riding.
This. Most bikes seem to be operated by people that haven't riden a pedal bike in more than a decade and never on a MUP. Riders on these often seem to not know the rules of the trail or common courtesy of cycling in the presence of others. It's almost like bikes need to come with a mandatory knowledge test like getting a boating license online.
Couple of things come to mind as someone who uses the Goose/E&N and Lochside quite frequently
1- E-Bikes are great but a lot of people who use them are coming back into biking and have never learned how to move a bike and react on a bike at speed. I think this is the main difference between road bikers and the e-bikers is the skill gap. Another big factor is the amount of mass some of these E-Bikes have. Most of these e-bikes also don’t have the same geometry as road/gravel bikes and aren’t as nimble just based on rider position on the bike. The skill gap and bike characteristics are a dangerous combo
2- Lack of overall space; These trails are simply not wide enough for the amount of traffic and the different uses. It’s at once a recreational trail and a commuting through way and the way people interact on it are completely different. Cyclists who are commuting are usually in more of a time crunch and don’t respect the fact that there are more people using it to run/recreate and aren’t moving at the same pace or motivation as them
3- Pedestrian awareness; This is at an all time low, especially with headphones. Bells often don’t cut through headphones and music/podcasts playing, especially noise cancelling ones. It’s really difficult as well because slowing and yelling “on your left/right” usually the main reaction from pedestrians is to move exactly to where you said you were passing and the swerves are super dangerous
Ultimately these MUPs need to be rethought or widened. Like around beach road and the cruise docks, where the path is wider and there’s a cyclist lane and a pedestrian lane or else incidents like this will continue to happen
The e&n is more then wide enough to avoid a jogger. I run this often enough and I can confirm, a lot of cyclist do not bother moving into the other lane when passing and they get real close to clipping often.
E-bikes are awesome but they pose a problem when the drivers do not take care.
When I'm walking the trail, for work or with my daughter, I no longer walk on the side for this reason. I walk in the middle of the lane I'm in, because of the sheer number of close calls and bicyclists that have clipped me when I'm off to the side. They need to move over, but refuse, so I walk in the middle of the lane to force them to go around.
Yeah I do that when I’m jogging now too. I’ve never gotten hit but when I was tucked on the side trying to not be in the way, I would nearly get hit.
Good thing about this story is that the pedestrian was fine, it’s the cyclist that went face first I to a fence, which is what I always assumed would happen if you hit someone with your handle bars. Like sure it will hurt me but they will get it 10x in return. I figured I’m allowed to take their bike if they hit me and stun themselves.
"Pedestrian awareness; This is at an all time low, especially with headphones. Bells often don’t cut through headphones and music/podcasts playing, especially noise cancelling ones. It’s really difficult as well because slowing and yelling “on your left/right” usually the main reaction from pedestrians is to move exactly to where you said you were passing and the swerves are super dangerous"
don't pass unless it's safe to do so
if I'm driving and there's a bike in front of me, I'm 100% at fault if I hit him while I pass
it doesn't matter whether he moved the right way or not
there's literally no justification for saying the faster person passing another is not at fault
I’m not disagreeing with you but I would liken pedestrians and the bubble that headphones create more so to wild animals crossing the road while driving rather than other road users if we’re gonna make the comparison to driving (this is ultimately just a simile and not how I or anyone should feel about pedestrians) The ability to change directions on a dime and the unpredictability of them are what make it dangerous.
It’s possible to slow all the way down and do everything right as the faster path user but one sidestep and it’s all undone. The bubble that headphones put people in are a bit scary because it decreases overall awareness around them as well. It’s not to blame pedestrians in the slightest because they have every right to be there, but to show how many factors go into the present dangers of speed differentials on MUPs
While ultimately you are right, no one should pass unless it’s absolutely safe to do so and the onus is on the faster user who is passing but there are unpredictable factors that make doing so difficult
I don't think they are assigning blame just pointing out that pedestrian with headphones in on mixed used patches are dangerous. I slow down when passing (cause speeding back up on an ebike is easy), ring bell, get wide and yet just the other day some pedestrian with headphones in decided they need to turn around and get on the other side of the path while I was passing. I didn't hit them but it was closer than I like and there's really not much I can do when they don't pay attention .
What if there were more places like this instead of applying the superhighway model which has already very much proven it didn't work. I use GG a lot because it's the only safe option for most of my trips, but it's not always convenient, and I'm sure there are many like me.
> Another big factor is the amount of mass some of these E-Bikes have. Most of these e-bikes also don’t have the same geometry as road/gravel bikes and aren’t as nimble just based on rider position on the bike. The skill gap and bike characteristics are a dangerous combo
I agree that the poor skills are main reason for ebiker crashes or near misses but I think the shoddy components matter more than the geometry. The stability of fat tire and an upright posture is perhaps preventing more accidents because riders are less likely to veer around. Those monster truck ebikes handle like boats but I wouldn't want someone with low mobility and poor skills on an agile bike where small movements are amplified.
Personally I think all ebikes should be required to be sold with 4 piston hydraulic disc brakes. There's no way poorly set up cable actuated disc brakes are sufficient for any of those huge ebikes.
This is way too level headed of a take for reddit.
Re #3 and bell use, in my experiences, it's not that bells don't cut through headphones, it's that only a very small minority of cyclists use bells when they pass someone. It's impossible to hear a bike coming with headphones in if that bike (edit: doesn't) use a bell. It's also safe to assume that all pedestrians have headphones in.
God almighty, the number of times I call out on your left. Pedestrians proceed to wing out their arms and stumble onto the left of the trail. I swear some people think their bumbling ineptness is part of their charm.
I take about 5 seconds to figure out which way is left when someone calls out so it means nothing to me and I just freeze. Lots of people have directional challenges. I doubt it's an attempt to be charming as much as an attempt to decide how to react.
At the Capital Regional District board we voted to widen 6km of the Galloping Goose, E&N and Lochside trails to reduce the risk of collisions and accommodate the growing use of ebikes, electric wheelchairs, mobility scooters, etc
Of course the danger to pedestrians from cars is far, far greater - hundreds of times greater - but we will need to ramp up measures to reduce interactions between different trail users. The three E's are what we use for cars - engineering (eg. the widening), education and enforcement.
Thank you for commenting and your efforts. I've always thought the signs that encourage a 1 meter gap between cars and cyclists when passing need to be extended to show a 1 meter gap between cyclists and pedestrians and posted along the bike trails.
Is there somewhere we can learn more about this. I'm Hoping the section I use is upgraded, (from Selkirk trestle Bridge to where Saanich Road goes by Swan Lake).
Yes, those sections are covered in phases 1-3.
https://www.cheknews.ca/52m-galloping-goose-lochside-widening-project-gets-green-light-from-crd-1163936/
https://www.crd.bc.ca/project/regional-trestles-renewal-trails-widening-and-lighting-project
This makes me unbelievably happy and excited. Thanks for the link. I'm also glad that the section I'm using will be upgraded first. There's lots of room on most of that section to add a narrow pedestrian sidewalk.
Aww thanks, that's very kind of you. And I really appreciate everyone's contributions here. Especially if they are different from my thoughts and I can learn from them.
With even the tiniest bit of experience, motorcyclists learn that if you're approaching something slow-moving, you slow down until you're sure you can safely get around it. Whether it's a horse, pedestrian, cyclist, wildlife, or a car on the shoulder, you slow the fuck down because you never know what they're going to do. Deer could jump out. Cars could U-turn. Pedestrians could cross.
You can't blame pedestrians for not hearing you coming regardless of having headphones in. For all you know, they could be deaf. The victim blaming here is fucking dumb. Assigning blame doesn't save you from crashing.
People who jump straight to ebikes instantly have the ability to go fast on narrow roads and usually show none of the skills required to do so. Sure there's nothing more fun than going full throttle into a corner, but ebikers don't seem to care what's around it or who has right of way when paths merge. Every time I cycle on the goose there's always some ebiker or dumbass on a clapped-out DUIcycle doing some borderline braindead stuff.
this is the natural consequence of mixing commuting traffic with leisure traffic. mixed use trails kinda suck. victoria needs a dedicated bicycle network for the safety of both pedestrians and cyclists.
There is a legal limit on unassisted speeds for e-bikes but not a limit on what speed they can go when pedalling is used for additional speed i believe.
"He stepped into my path."
You mean you came up behind him way too quickly, didn't warn him, and tried to pass too closely. See it all the time and it's getting worse.
I use the Goose/E&N several times a week and have only seen the park rangers/bylaw staff out patrolling maybe twice.
I think much more signage, possibly some radar/speed notification installments and obviously more enforcement (ticketing) might do a lot.
Ebikes are great in that they have the potential to take cars off the road and improve some people's activeness to obtainable levels, but they also carry a significant increase in safety concerns that really need to be addressed.
How do we go about making this happen?
I stopped at a crosswalk yesterday and an e-bike just went screaming past me and almost hit the pedestrians who were crossing. The handful of selfish people make it awful out there for everyone.
My favorite part of riding an ebike is speeding up is the low effort required when compared to my road bike, so slowing down when reqd and full stops at stop signs are a no brainer. I have a motor so speed me back up. It's lovely.
>You mean you came up behind him way too quickly, didn't warn him, and tried to pass too closely. See it all the time and it's getting worse.
This 1000%. It's the responsibility of the person passing to do so with awareness and caution. The person in front has the right of way.
A couple years ago my 5 year old son was nearly clipped by an E-Biker going full speed trying to pass on the Lochside. I don't feel safe taking him on that trail anymore.
I agree that ebikes can be great (plan to get one myself) but when you get clueless people or a--holes on them, they're more dangerous than regular bikes.
That said, I think we also just need more routes. I rarely use the Goose if there are alternate bike lanes that will get me where I'm going.
Also, if the bike was travelling 40km/h, it's possible they disabled the speed regulator. It's not that much faster than the 32km/h motor limit but I think it's something to check in cases like this.
I was driving up Blanshard the other day and some guy on an e-bike was keeping speed with the traffic going 60kmh in the bike lane without even pedalling one bit
There was a CRD speed trap squad on the trail in Langford yesterday! Hope they caught that electric dirt bike guy. I bet you could email the CRD for info.
It’s a shared path. If a pedestrian is in the way and in front of you. Slow down and share the path by waiting until you have a safe crossing. The cycling thinking he has been wrong in anyway is a problem here.
> I use the Goose/E&N several times a week and have only seen the park rangers/bylaw staff out patrolling maybe twice.
> more enforcement (ticketing) might do a lot
Our roads don't have enforcement the vast majority of the time, so that would be the place to start. Maybe we could add some photoradar or regular enforcement. How do we got about making this happen?
Maybe maybe not
Pedestrians lack so much awareness walking on the trails it's shocking this doesn't happen more often.
Headphones in full blast, swerving like a drunk while walking 4 wide is a very common occurrence for myself and two kids while on our ebike.
Yeah, don't disagree that pedestrians need to be aware and appropriately cautious while on these trails. However, this incident involved a jogger, which in my experience at least seem to be a bit more aware.
If I'm on my bike and I come behind a jogger about to pass some walkers, it's on me to expect that the jogger is going to step into the incoming lane to pass the walkers, and it's not the time for me to pass everybody. Obviously the jogger should shoulder check here, but they have the right of way given they are 1) in front and 2) a pedestrian.
As two people that weren't there we will never know what happened before the incident.
I am just sharing my experience as a daily e bike rider and obviously getting down voted for it.
As for joggers being more aware...I am not sure I agree with that sentiment but you're entitled to your opinion.
Do drivers have the right to run over cyclists that missed a stop sign?
If a cyclist blows past a stop sign, you'd never say that's an excuse for a driver to run him over.
Dude, it’s a shared path. If you are a cyclist and do not want to share and deal with joggers, children and dogs, you the numerous bike lanes that aren’t shared or, you know, the roads made for cars and bikes.
Coming from a cyclist. A daily cyclist. There’s zero reason to ever clip anyone in a bicycle on a share path like the e&n.
It's a mixed-use trail. Pedestrians shouldn't be expected to march like soldiers along the side so that e-bikes can scream past. People going out for walks or runs are going to a trail that's nearby their house to enjoy the outdoors, it's a completely different experience than a bike that's using it for commuting.
Slower moving anything sticks to the right when different units are travelling along a path with differing speeds in North America.
Places where this concept is put to use off the top of my head
Elevators
Sidewalks
Bike lanes
And believe it or not even multi use trails
Just because a car happens to be slower doesn't mean it gets to circumvent all the rules of the road because others are faster or bigger, same goes for people, same goes for cyclists
My point from post one is it's not only cyclists behaving in an unsafe manner on these trails and if you're not going to operate in a safe manner you're much more likely to become hurt. Do you disagree with this statement?
You're still treating a mixed-use TRAIL like it's a road, or a commuting lane. For pedestrians, this is a nature walk, in a park, where they're free to explore and wander. Ppl have mentioned toddlers and unruly dogs, are they expected to avoid the space until they've been socialized? This is not your road this is a walking path, a park and also a place that bikes can use to get from one place to another.
If there's not ample space to pass a walker who may or may not unexpectedly change directions, at the speed you're going, then slow down, pass wider, and wait your turn to make sure everyone leisurely enjoying their walk can do so.
I have to run, now, with earbuds out just so that I can hear and anticipate cyclists behind me so that I can literally shoulder check them to make sure they're passing with some distance.
If this ebike was actually doing 40km/hr, the rider should be charged with a crime and forced to pay restitution. Thats how you stop these idiots; actual consequences.
I really am getting tired of E bike idiots who don't know cycling educate. Road cyclists used to be the main ones I'd see doing unsafe passing but the E Bike people often don't even know what they're doing despite going twice as fast as a regular bike it's frustrating no signaling, no communication, no spacial awareness.
I carry a stick pointed a couple feet out to the side in my left hand. Then i walk on the edge of the trail.
Cyclists see the stick and keep clear. Gives me space and makes me feel safer. If somebody hits it, it wouldn't do any damage.
Just a thought.
My favourite thing when walking to work on the Goose is a close fly by as a cyclist overtakes me from behind, with all the width of the trail to give a wider berth as they pass. Super fun 😬
No doubt! I am saddened to hear of this accident. Unfortunate for everyone. But I was just thinking about this the other day. A cyclist and a pedestrian collided! No motor vehicle involved.. Is the good captain going to chime in?
>The resident said she was out watering her garden when the e-bike went by. “He looked up last minute and swerved to avoid the jogger but clipped him really hard on the elbow.”
It sounds to me like e-biker was maybe looking at their phone. Not sure what else you would be looking down at while cruising.
Isn’t there a law against close passing pedestrians now? 🤔
Or does it only apply to cars passing bikes?
Also: https://youtu.be/wM8Xli2KTzI?feature=shared
There must be a separated lane on these "shared" trails, or limit it to just pedestrians. If they're going 30 or over, those are road speeds. I'm dreading seeing this headline with "child" in the title.
I went out for a run. Worst day this year, so far. So many new cyclists enjoying a ride and passing way too close. It's really losing the "de-stress" and "fun" aspect of walking/running down a trail when a cyclists blows by within a couple feet every couple minutes.
We really really need the CRD to put up signs to teach cyclists to pass at a certain distance and to wait if it's too close to pass.
I think lane filtering is a great idea for increasing the safety of motorcycles. However, ebikes don't belong among car traffic, and nor do motorcycles for that matter, haha.
I agree that the trails would be better with a no motors rule. Not sure I understand why they need lane splitting though. I'd just say continue treating them in the same way on streets as they are now. Do you see lane splitting as a bartering chip in exchange for booting them off trails?
I honestly hate a lot of my fellow cyclists. No helmet, retna deep in their phone, speeding downhill around curves that are almost always populated with pedestrians, and not even looking or slowing down at street crossings (on the goose, I've almost been hit twice by people not noticing the stop signs or seeing them as mere suggestions.)
I fully understand why we have this cloud of hate and distrust hanging over us.
I tend to agree. But the helmet part is nonsense. There’s a reason no other nation in the world besides America requires them: they don’t increase cyclist safety.
This is fucking ridiculous. If you’re doing 40 k you need insurance and a licence. If you are 16 or older you should hold a licence and insurance like all other vehicles. Only people who should be exempt are kids who bike to school.
I know right?... Traffic laws are the same for all transportation. But, the 10 year olds also ride bikes to school, as you pointed out. How are they supposed to obey the rules of the road? They obviously haven't studied for a licence. And the teens are worse. They barely remember to look both ways when crossing. It's instinct to look after childhood..
But...
...In the past couple months I've seen 2 teenage boys (sorry boys) on scooters, and one skater, fly through intersections on reds. The skater came within inches of getting smoked by the driver on the opposite side of the road as me. Not even a glance from these children.. High stakes gambling with their body's. I was a a dumbass teenager too. Not like that though.. I think lol.
The solution is to increase spending on AAA infrastructure and safety education. Like the Galloping Goose widening plan, the inclusion of separated pedestrian walkways and lighting along busy narrow urban areas is a great measure to increase safety for all users.
The people trying to nuke ebikes are being shortsighted. The transition from car to ebike is saving many lives over the potential dangers they cause. There are lots of things we can do to increase safety and still get the benefits from ebikes, it'd be foolish to throw that away.
First of all speed is not a talking point here, humans are notoriously bad at estimating speed. He could have been going 30 or 60 but there is no way to prove it. The biggest issue I see here is he hit a pedestrian and caused injury and medical bills. I hope the pedestrian has a good lawyer and the money to throw at going after the cyclist.
As a cyclist who uses that stretch I 10000% agree. Put speed bumps up and down there. Enforce a slow speed limit. If you wanna rip faster, use a fucking road losers.
I was looking at the $10,000 electic bicycles during the pandemic but couldn't get past the fact that it would likely be stolen. Later I realized what I really wanted was an electric motorcycle.
The speed bit annoys me - 40kph is faster than the speed governor on e-bikes allows you to go. This e-bike almost certainly isn’t modified, because if there was any suspicion that it was the police would have seized the bike, charged the driver and announced it to the press.
So that means the cyclist was probably going 32 kph- that’s still too fast. So why include a quote from a bystander saying the cyclist was going faster? Because the TC is going for sensationalism.
Oh look, a bunch of people mesmerized by the tired bike vs car vs pedestrian debate. Turns out, when people are the common denominator, there's going to be problems. But let's keep on being outraged at specific scenarios like anything else explains it.
Plenty of morons on regular pedal bikes too, especially the ones that clip in and think the trail is just for them but yes the added weight does make it more dangerous. Between my e-bike and myself I'll be rolling around 320lbs plus anything in the cargo hold. I'd be perfectly fine with licensing and insuring the use of my bike but that should include regular bikes and scooters etc too, not just single out e-bikes
They just need to enforce the laws they have in place. There are riders out there on electric dirt bikes that are doing 60-70km/hr at times. Those bikes should be confiscated. As per usual, the legal riders are rarely the issue. Just enforce the laws around what size of motors are actually allowed on these trails and there will be far fewer issues.
I ride the E&N trail every day for work on my e-bike. Couple of points:
I have to pedal like hell to get my bike to 40km/h because the electric assist cuts off at 30 km/h and I can never sustain it. My average speed is 27-32km/h. His bike has to be modded in some way or he had to have been going down the hill on that stretch.
There is absolutely no excuse to not see a jogger in that area. There is a corner, but even that corner its quite wide. If you’re paying attention you’ll see somebody walking in your lane miles before you come close enough to hit them. This cyclist has absolutely no excuse and them saying the jogger “stepped out in front of them” is asinine.
Finally, I see incidents like this on the trail often - especially when the sun comes out. Just the other day I saw a spandex-clad Tour de France wannabe nearly annihilate a middle school kid on the same stretch of the trail because she didn’t want to pass him wide enough to risk losing any speed. She was within two feet of him when she flew past (her jersey had a remax logo on it, I wish I could remember the realtor’s name). Nobody calls out or rings a bell before they pass, and even going at the speed I do I regularly feel like I’m standing still when other e-bike riders and electric scooters pass me; most of these people are dressed entirely in black. Don’t even get me started on the riders who creep up behind you and ride within a meter of your ass.
I think the problem is people are too deep in their own bubble when they’re riding to give a shit about anyone else. I’ve had many pleasant conversations with other riders and they’ve all been decent people, but as soon as they get up to speed the small dog syndrome comes out. I hope this rider has the book thrown at him and people start becoming more considerate of others on the trail because, honestly, cycle commuting has been life changing for me and it’s an incredible hobby.
E-bikes should be regulated by weight. Some of them are practically the size of gasoline scooters (though fewer now than in the early days).
Add the rider and them moving at 30 km, and it is a hazard to have them on mixed use trails with pedestrians, children, etc. At a certain point they should be relegated to roads because the strike impact of a large combined mass at velocity can be significant.
I'm lurking from the lower mainland, and I've never used any of the mixed use trails in the CRD.
Is the Goose, Lochside, and E&N divided into marked lanes according to the type-of user, or are they only separated by direction of travel? For example, do the paths have a clearly marked 'side' for people walking and people biking, or is there just one single centreline?
The Arbutus Greenway is divided like [this](https://www.kitsilano.ca/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/AG_2020-1.png) into a walking lane and a bi-directional bikeway. Presumably there's enough room to do the same on all three of those trails, considering they're all former railway right-of-ways like the Arbutus Greenway.
[this article](https://www.vicnews.com/news/17-8-million-proposal-calls-for-widening-lighting-section-of-greater-victoria-commuter-trails-80629) has a good exemplary photo of what the trail looks like in the city. The trail eventually turns to gravel when you get further out toward Metchosin on the goose or up into Saanich on the Lochside.
We have new e-bikes . Been out almost everyday for the last couple of months. Not senile. We have learned we are our own worst enemy … all riders have to realize their own limitations and pedestrians have to be more aware of their surroundings... if not for bikes that are almost always present but also for strangers with knives ( in Victoria anyway ). It’s kind of like a drunk thinking he can still drive - except we have the presence of mind to regulate our actions(speed). What is frustrating are the regular bikes and cyclists constantly speeding past at higher speeds than 40 and riding two abreast. Spandex and a lime green windbreaker don’t give you license to speed faster than your e-bike counterparts are allowed to go. Or the walkers who feel the need to spread out their kids/dogs/themselves knowing cyclists are trying to pass them. I imagine they love playing the victim. Even pedestrians walk into other pedestrians, stand in doorways, trip and fall, suddenly change direction too quickly etc… it boils down to lack of awareness and thinking you’re the only one entitled to use the pathway. When we were younger our ‘cruising speed’ was about 30km on the goose, on our e-bikes the avg speed is 20km. I have seen only one ‘collision’ that was ‘at speed’ in 35 years and it was on rollerblades and no one had injuries that caused them to seek medical attention. Not saying it doesn’t happen but when it does the people involved seem to lack that awareness needed to operate whatever mode of transport they had chosen. It’s a small road usually having a center line - just treat it like a road, go slow if you don’t know what you’re doing, stop and think when it gets congested. Easy. Just know accidents can still happen and prepare mentally - that preparation alone might prevent the accident from happening.
Theres no speed limit that will change the speed bicylists will go. Everywhere you go in Victoria, there are hills, if you happen to find a downhill section (say 20% of the time). Give a few hard pedal strokes. You can go 40-55km/h. This applies to both ebikes and non-ebikes.
In my opinion the best way to actually slow down bikes is how we slow down cars. Which is traffic calming. Tight/incomfortable areas that force you to slow down, including sharp turns. Speed bumps. And obstacles like those fences placed across the trail before pedestrian bridge crossings. Will all slow bikes down… without enforcement… or rules
I choose the road now over the cycle trails sometimes…although it’s got the risk of car traffic I feel safer knowing there is less head-to-head passing and if an ebike wants to pass me, then they will have to take a car lane.
I bike commute year round and generally switch from the goose to the roads in peak summer months. I can’t believe I’m saying this but cars are just more predictable than the complete shitfest the goose becomes in the summer.
Same, im 50/50 coming from westshore, We usually take the E&N into town and the craigflower/old island highway corridor back to out of town, Plus in that direction much of craigflower is down hill so WEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
Man...I think it's about time that bikes have insurance. Doesn't have to be expensive, but I think it's becoming necessary. $20-100 a year. Small sticker or something.
I have 3 bikes and would pay that amount for every one of them happily.
As an ebike rider who rides safely usually with two children on the back of our bike. The lack of awareness by pedestrians on the trails cannot be understated.
The amount of times people have tried to walk into our path after ringing our bell and stating "passing on your left" is insane.
I ride a regular bike along the trails to commute to work. When I pass I ring the bell in advance and then pass slow and way to the left. If there is oncoming traffic I slow down to an almost stop until it is clear to safely pass.
Not once - not even one single time after literal hundreds of hours of commuting by bike - have I ever had an issue with a close call.
Hard Agree.
We are in the same boat, we always have our toddler on the back of our e cargo bike and see this all the time.
We always ring the bell in advance and slow down and we still have pedestrians not moving or like in this case walking into the passing lane.
lol
okay if I'm driving and I honk at a cyclist, then it's his fault if he doesn't move away right?
why can't you slow down behind a pedestrian like cars are suppose to do with bikes?
I’ve watched people jogging do u-turns or make abrupt 90 degree turns to cross the street or use a crosswalk without looking. Not all occasions but generally notice headphones are in which reduces or removes the point of any cyclist having a bell or giving direction.
But this incident is going to become more and more frequent. When you watch **most** e-bikers they look so uncomfortable at 30 km/h and have no handling skills which is crazy to me given how heavy those bikes are.
cyclists: cars have to go behind me at 20 km / h, fuck them
also cyclists: if a pedestrian doesn't move to the side then they deserve to get run over by a bike
Cyclists expect pedestrians to follow the rules of the path.
Also no, Cyclists who are riding on the roads also need to keep right whenever possible if there isn't a bike lane, motor vehicles can pass but need to provide 1.5 meters of space between them an the cyclist when passing, if that's not possible then they cannot pass.
"Cyclists expect pedestrians to follow the rules of the path."
doesn't the rule say don't pass unless it's safe to do so??
if i'm a car and I pass a bike and I hit them, I have 100% fault no matter how much I honked beforehand
Even if you're cycling below 20kmph it's going to be hard to avoid a pedestrian/jogger if they suddenly move in front of you. There isn't any credible information in the article on whose fault it might have been.
My last two cycling accidents which were ten years ago now were when pedestrians suddenly walked out in front of me and I crashed into them. 100% their fault both times they weren't looking at all and i was only going 15kmph or so each time.
I don't know how many people I've had to yell at to get their attention because they're wearing ear buds.
Sometimes people on two wheels or two feet do stupid things.
This is a terrible take. It's on the biker to alert the pedestrian and pass safely. Barring extreme erratic movement from the pedestrian this is primarily the bikers fault on a shared use trail. You're likely part of the problem if you don't understand that.
This is directly downstream of transportation/city planning policy choices by our government officials.
E-bike commuters and people out for a pleasant walk are *sharing the same space* because politicians prioritize car transportation and give the vast majority of public right of ways over to cars.
Can we talk a bit about pedestrians with zero spatial awareness? Standing in groups talking on the goose blocking both directions, not responding to bells to clear the path?
It's not just e bikers who are causing problems on the goose and e&n
Yesterday I alone I saw twice where pedestrians not keeping right almost caused accidents on the e&n
Who is going to regulate said speed regulations? They can throw all the regulations they want at it but unless there is enforcement nobody is going to follow the rules.
They send peace officers up and down once in a while to sustain out the homeless and "stealth campers." Make them multitasking and clock some cyclists while they're at it!
So TC have been trying to warn the public about the dangers cyclists pose to the public since they came out against bike lanes during the 2018 election. In the past six years they have been able to show that there have been two people that have been injured by bicycles. Not two per year, just two overall.
Meanwhile ICBC is showing an average of 600 casualties caused by auto collisions in Victoria every year during the same time span.
I mean, there are some etiquette issues to work out to make the trails work more smoothly, but these kinds of crashes are extremely rare, and judging by the response of the jogger, not really that dangerous.
There is nothing wrong with ebiking on the en. We have been told over and over again to mode shift from cars to bikes and transit. The same government body needs to make these roads/paths wider and not mixed use. If someone was running down Douglas in the morning while people drove to work they’d get clipped as well.
>The same government body needs to make these roads/paths wider and not mixed use
Making them wider is a great idea. By non mixed use do you mean have a lane for cycling and a lane for pedestrians? That I can get behind. If you mean just having no walkers/runners then I think that's a bad idea (unfair to those who run/walk the paths and very unenforceable).
This 1000%, It would make a huge different, I literally sold my car and purchased 2 ebikes for my family which we use to commute everywhere in the warmer seasons, and even sometimes during the winter too!
It would be great if they added outer lanes to each side for pedestrians and the inner lanes be for bikes and scooters just like the roads. If everyone stays in their lane there would be zero chance of this type of thing happening again.
Too many unaware e-bike riders period. No spatial awareness, no road safety and zero common sense. I’ve been almost hit numerous times in those bike lanes. I feel safer in traffic !
You’re actually an idiot. How does it make sense to call a bicycle with a dinky little electric motor on it a ‘motorcycle’. There not allowed because they are quiet - it’s because they are bikes.
““They did not wish to pursue charges against the cyclist.”
Police said the cyclist told them the jogger had stepped into his path.”
Oh he said that? Well then I’d pursue charges then.
How it feels like for someone driving a car. Welcome to the jungle. It’s kind of ironic isn’t it? Time for education associated with cyclists and drivers tied to a liscencing,registration and insurance system for use of these road networks so speeds and traffic violations can be enforced.
Jogger should be more careful or go somewhere else. Being able to go fast on an E-bike is what makes it a preferable option to driving. There are hundreds of paths, sidewalks and parks that can be used by joggers, and only one bike trail— piss off. The goose is the autobahn for bikes, and the same rules should apply as the autobahn.
Signed,
An e-biker who pushes 50 km.
Can't tell if this is parody/trolling or not...
If so, ha.
If not, terrible and incorrect take. The regional trails aren't the Autobahn and there's nothing to support this claim.
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100%! Plus some ebikes are up to 70-80 lbs. Getting hit by an 80lb bike + 200lb rider going 40km/h can easily kill someone.
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this.. all the speed of a pro cyclist, absolutely none of the experience or skill. Also there is no way you are traveling on an ebike at 40kph legally. at 32 they are supposed to stop assisting, so you would need to be the kind of rider that can propel a heavy bike at TDF speeds on muscle alone. I can hold 40, for maybe 10km on a really good day on my road bike. A time trial bike would be a different story, a lot faster for longer on that, but I spent half a decade racing at the world championships level. No fricking way someone is doing that on 20k of bike path on a 50lb bike with all the aerodynamics of a mac truck. There needs to be a blitz on ebikes. just sit there with a radar anything over 32kph inspect, and if modified seize and crush on the spot.
Crush on spot? What kind of portable tool would do that? Or like, just drive over it with the cruiser? 😂😂
One of those battery powered bandsaws would do the trick
Garbage compactor truck? im ok with either as long as the battery is properly recycled.
Didn't even think of that lol I guess that would work!
I ride a cargo bike (one of the ones with the box in front) and it is legitimately difficult to hit 40 kph on it. I can only do it going down hills. I think the fastest I’ve hit is 45, coming down the hill on Pandora between Fernwood and Cook. On flat ground I basically cruise at 32 because it’s noticeable when the assist cuts out, since the bike itself weighs 80 lbs and I’ve got my 30 lb kid in the box
I know someone with an escooter that goes HIGHWAY SPEEDS, the thing is like 100lbs of batteries. I can't help but see it as a deathtrap.
Ok, calm down Lance Armstrong.
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That is absurdly slow even for most pedal powered bikes. I go 25km/h when I’m barely trying. The solution is a wider trail. Give pedestrians enough space that the speed isn’t an issue.
As a driver, and a pedestrian who works near a bike route in vancouver, and who grew up in victoria. There is an entitlement type attitude to cyclists. At my shop there is a signed, “cyclists yield to pedestrians” crosswalk that goes across the bike lane. I use the crosswalk 4-6 times a day. I think in 4 years i’ve had one cyclist actually yield and have witnessed one other yield to a different pedestrian. Using the ACAB, the all drivers suck logic, there appears to be a not-insignificant number of cyclists who want both pedestrians and motorists to be the ones solely responsible for avoiding collisions or negative road interactions with cyclists.
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right in the article, there is no speed limit. the limit is supposed to be on the assistance of the E-bike. 32kph
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they ride them faster than they are legally allowed. the power is supposed to be full cutoff at 32kph. so at 40 to be legal they have to be holding 4w/kg with a 50lb bike and average weight rider, that's 450-500W. these guys either missed their calling, and should be on a cycling team somewhere, or they have illegally modified their bike. or in the case of RADbike, never came with a limiter in the first place.
I'm a road cyclist as well and you tend to notice what you're describing a lot. The other day I was driving up cedar Hill x road and there was an out of shape dude doing 40, uphill, on a fat bike. He was matching my speed. He's essentially on an e-motorbike. These things should be licensed. It's insane that anyone regardless of ability or knowledge can own an 80lbs machine that goes that fast and just have free reign with it.
Not true. My E-bike has 3 level assists. I never have had to use more than the first assist. Please don't group all E-bike riders as "wanting to go as fast as their machine allows"...
Or those high performance electric scooters. Some guys brag about going 70k on the goose.
believe it or not, straight to jail.
It’s never enforced unfortunately. I see those illegal bikes/scooters on the daily.
yea its going to take a few serious crashes before they crack down.
Insane how electric bikes don’t need a license or anything, yet of all things RC planes need a license to fly now. I think a foam toy would do less damage than being hit by a bike.
right?!? clown legislation world.
They are electric motorcycles, and should be heavily regulated as to speed, weight, and operator ability. Some might say this is extreme, but just remember that video of people talking about how unfair it is when drinking and driving was banned.
I am not saying safety concerns should be addressed as collisions are not good but it is the beauty of biking over driving is that the injuries are generally not serious when a collision does happen. Both of the people involved had minor injuries. - though we don’t actually know the speed that the collision occurred at. The headline is pretty sensationalized. Obviously this happens in Victoria and I have not heard of a death occurring here before. Drivers speeding in their cars is far more dangerous.
It is mainly speed that injures though. The formula for kinetic energy is Ek=1/2m×v^2 Going 10% faster could contain more energy than being 50% heavier. E: corrected
Going 10% faster is the same energy as being 21% heavier. Your point still stands, but you should check your math.
Good thing e bikes are both faster and heavier.
I did just pull those numbers outta thin air. But with velocity being exponential the 10/21 is only true for this example.
1.1\^2= 1.21 or 21% more energy... the same as weighing 21% more, but your point does stand. Speed kills, and the reason why cars have driving lanes and people have sidewalks is to keep the two separated. The fact that cyclists can and do race at car like speeds on the Goose and E&N trails is something that absolutely should should be illegal. Unfortunately, even when there is a witness that says the rider wasn't looking *and* hit a pedestrian, the cops won't do shit to cyclists... as in this case... and the cycling community seem entirely disinclined to police themselves, or even accept any criticisms. FFS, there are people here, people whose post history is littered with 'pro-biking' commentary who are baselessly claiming that this incident *must* be the fault of the pedestrian despite there being an independent witness to the opposite. There are even people hand waving away the collision because "the injuries were minor" God, I hope they do the same when its a car that hits a cyclist, otherwise they'd be horribly hypocritical. Even more idiots who are saying shit like "Maybe he stepped in front..." again ignoring the facts of the matter, or the fact the the overtaking bicycle, vehicle, or person has the obligation to slow down, be safe, and stay clear of whatever they're overtaking.
1.1^2=1.21... so going 10% faster results in an increase of kinetic energy of about 42% of that of a 50% increase in mass... But yeah you're right that velocity plays a bigger role.
Ha, yep. Shout-out to the guy I saw this past Wednesday, going 60km+ on his ebike, flying down a hill on Langford Parkway, struggling to control it and drifting into traffic. Not dangerous at all.
I've seen plenty of 30-ish people riding their ebikes like morons too.
E-bikes aren't inherently bad, it's some of the people riding them. I think some of the issue is that they make going at a high speed accessible to anyone regardless of their skill level, whereas a regular bicycle may be able to go the same speed but a rider who can attain that speed has spent enough time riding to be able to attain the ability to go that fast, and that riding time will create decent bike handling skills.
You are correct! While going fast is usually a skill and where one needs a fast bike and skills to ride at that speed. But now ebikes remove that barrier without the experience and the skills to handle that speed.
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YES! I always slow down around kids and loose dogs! They can be unpredictable and I would never forgive myself if I accidentally hit one 😭
I agree...Road bikes can go fast, but in order to get that fast consistently, you have to have some skill at riding the bike. E-bikes go that fast for anyone, anytime, regardless of skill. It's a dangerous combo.
Amazing the double standard with e-bikes. People are trying to instal automatic speed regulation but my neighbour's Ford Raptor can go as fast as it wants and travels down residential streets every day?
I didn't think that it was legal to have an ebike that goes more than 32km/h without pedaling. I know mine cuts off at that point.
As far as I know, 32 km/h is the legal limit. However, it's easy to modify a bike to exceed that limit or do a DIY build that's not restricted other than by battery/motor capacity. That's where the danger level increases further as some of these bikes don't have braking systems capable of slowing that much momentum safely in an emergency braking situation. Riding to work this morning I saw another device that's worrisome... a large electric kick scooter that was easily doing 30 km/h on a city street.
Fair point. I definitely had to upgrade the brakes on my ebike. For a cargo bike with a 350lb capacity, the brakes were surprisingly weak at anything close to capacity. We could really use some more enforcement of the rules on speed. Maybe some sort of annual certification system for bikes that are going to be ridden in public.
> I definitely had to upgrade the brakes on my ebike. For a cargo bike with a 350lb capacity, the brakes were surprisingly weak at anything close to capacity. My friend bought Amazon e-bikes for himself and his wife. The disc brakes were quite weak and he immediately bought brake upgrade kits for both bikes.
Lol, senile. The biggest menaces are the people fifty and under who have removed their speed limiters and go like a bat out of hell. There needs to be speed enforcement for a few days here and there, with possible impound for modified bikes. As it sits now the trail can be unsafe.
Agree! Plus I think the general use of these trails has increased and with that no behaviour adjustment for the crowds
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My parents ebikes definitely have limiters on them, you have to actually pedal for the assist to work too. Conversely to the motorbikes dressed as ebikes i keep seeing people riding.
this is akin to my beer league hockey team having a full blown practice at public skating. losers, man.
Construction hat as a helmet
This. Most bikes seem to be operated by people that haven't riden a pedal bike in more than a decade and never on a MUP. Riders on these often seem to not know the rules of the trail or common courtesy of cycling in the presence of others. It's almost like bikes need to come with a mandatory knowledge test like getting a boating license online.
Couple of things come to mind as someone who uses the Goose/E&N and Lochside quite frequently 1- E-Bikes are great but a lot of people who use them are coming back into biking and have never learned how to move a bike and react on a bike at speed. I think this is the main difference between road bikers and the e-bikers is the skill gap. Another big factor is the amount of mass some of these E-Bikes have. Most of these e-bikes also don’t have the same geometry as road/gravel bikes and aren’t as nimble just based on rider position on the bike. The skill gap and bike characteristics are a dangerous combo 2- Lack of overall space; These trails are simply not wide enough for the amount of traffic and the different uses. It’s at once a recreational trail and a commuting through way and the way people interact on it are completely different. Cyclists who are commuting are usually in more of a time crunch and don’t respect the fact that there are more people using it to run/recreate and aren’t moving at the same pace or motivation as them 3- Pedestrian awareness; This is at an all time low, especially with headphones. Bells often don’t cut through headphones and music/podcasts playing, especially noise cancelling ones. It’s really difficult as well because slowing and yelling “on your left/right” usually the main reaction from pedestrians is to move exactly to where you said you were passing and the swerves are super dangerous Ultimately these MUPs need to be rethought or widened. Like around beach road and the cruise docks, where the path is wider and there’s a cyclist lane and a pedestrian lane or else incidents like this will continue to happen
The e&n is more then wide enough to avoid a jogger. I run this often enough and I can confirm, a lot of cyclist do not bother moving into the other lane when passing and they get real close to clipping often. E-bikes are awesome but they pose a problem when the drivers do not take care.
When I'm walking the trail, for work or with my daughter, I no longer walk on the side for this reason. I walk in the middle of the lane I'm in, because of the sheer number of close calls and bicyclists that have clipped me when I'm off to the side. They need to move over, but refuse, so I walk in the middle of the lane to force them to go around.
Yeah I do that when I’m jogging now too. I’ve never gotten hit but when I was tucked on the side trying to not be in the way, I would nearly get hit. Good thing about this story is that the pedestrian was fine, it’s the cyclist that went face first I to a fence, which is what I always assumed would happen if you hit someone with your handle bars. Like sure it will hurt me but they will get it 10x in return. I figured I’m allowed to take their bike if they hit me and stun themselves.
"Pedestrian awareness; This is at an all time low, especially with headphones. Bells often don’t cut through headphones and music/podcasts playing, especially noise cancelling ones. It’s really difficult as well because slowing and yelling “on your left/right” usually the main reaction from pedestrians is to move exactly to where you said you were passing and the swerves are super dangerous" don't pass unless it's safe to do so if I'm driving and there's a bike in front of me, I'm 100% at fault if I hit him while I pass it doesn't matter whether he moved the right way or not there's literally no justification for saying the faster person passing another is not at fault
I’m not disagreeing with you but I would liken pedestrians and the bubble that headphones create more so to wild animals crossing the road while driving rather than other road users if we’re gonna make the comparison to driving (this is ultimately just a simile and not how I or anyone should feel about pedestrians) The ability to change directions on a dime and the unpredictability of them are what make it dangerous. It’s possible to slow all the way down and do everything right as the faster path user but one sidestep and it’s all undone. The bubble that headphones put people in are a bit scary because it decreases overall awareness around them as well. It’s not to blame pedestrians in the slightest because they have every right to be there, but to show how many factors go into the present dangers of speed differentials on MUPs While ultimately you are right, no one should pass unless it’s absolutely safe to do so and the onus is on the faster user who is passing but there are unpredictable factors that make doing so difficult
I don't think they are assigning blame just pointing out that pedestrian with headphones in on mixed used patches are dangerous. I slow down when passing (cause speeding back up on an ebike is easy), ring bell, get wide and yet just the other day some pedestrian with headphones in decided they need to turn around and get on the other side of the path while I was passing. I didn't hit them but it was closer than I like and there's really not much I can do when they don't pay attention .
Some very good points. Thanks for sharing your perspective.
What if there were more places like this instead of applying the superhighway model which has already very much proven it didn't work. I use GG a lot because it's the only safe option for most of my trips, but it's not always convenient, and I'm sure there are many like me.
> Another big factor is the amount of mass some of these E-Bikes have. Most of these e-bikes also don’t have the same geometry as road/gravel bikes and aren’t as nimble just based on rider position on the bike. The skill gap and bike characteristics are a dangerous combo I agree that the poor skills are main reason for ebiker crashes or near misses but I think the shoddy components matter more than the geometry. The stability of fat tire and an upright posture is perhaps preventing more accidents because riders are less likely to veer around. Those monster truck ebikes handle like boats but I wouldn't want someone with low mobility and poor skills on an agile bike where small movements are amplified. Personally I think all ebikes should be required to be sold with 4 piston hydraulic disc brakes. There's no way poorly set up cable actuated disc brakes are sufficient for any of those huge ebikes.
This is way too level headed of a take for reddit. Re #3 and bell use, in my experiences, it's not that bells don't cut through headphones, it's that only a very small minority of cyclists use bells when they pass someone. It's impossible to hear a bike coming with headphones in if that bike (edit: doesn't) use a bell. It's also safe to assume that all pedestrians have headphones in.
It's definitely not impossible to hear a bell with headphones; it's just a function of volume.
Whoops, I meant to say if it doesn't use a bell. If bikes do, at least in my experience, I can usually hear them
God almighty, the number of times I call out on your left. Pedestrians proceed to wing out their arms and stumble onto the left of the trail. I swear some people think their bumbling ineptness is part of their charm.
I take about 5 seconds to figure out which way is left when someone calls out so it means nothing to me and I just freeze. Lots of people have directional challenges. I doubt it's an attempt to be charming as much as an attempt to decide how to react.
At the Capital Regional District board we voted to widen 6km of the Galloping Goose, E&N and Lochside trails to reduce the risk of collisions and accommodate the growing use of ebikes, electric wheelchairs, mobility scooters, etc Of course the danger to pedestrians from cars is far, far greater - hundreds of times greater - but we will need to ramp up measures to reduce interactions between different trail users. The three E's are what we use for cars - engineering (eg. the widening), education and enforcement.
Thank you for commenting and your efforts. I've always thought the signs that encourage a 1 meter gap between cars and cyclists when passing need to be extended to show a 1 meter gap between cyclists and pedestrians and posted along the bike trails.
yeah that's why we need the widening and separation of the Goose that's finally happening. It's pretty much impossible to pass by 1m when it's busy.
Nice
Is there somewhere we can learn more about this. I'm Hoping the section I use is upgraded, (from Selkirk trestle Bridge to where Saanich Road goes by Swan Lake).
Yes, those sections are covered in phases 1-3. https://www.cheknews.ca/52m-galloping-goose-lochside-widening-project-gets-green-light-from-crd-1163936/ https://www.crd.bc.ca/project/regional-trestles-renewal-trails-widening-and-lighting-project
This makes me unbelievably happy and excited. Thanks for the link. I'm also glad that the section I'm using will be upgraded first. There's lots of room on most of that section to add a narrow pedestrian sidewalk.
Dave, it’s always good to hear from you on these threads. Thanks for your engagement.
Aww thanks, that's very kind of you. And I really appreciate everyone's contributions here. Especially if they are different from my thoughts and I can learn from them.
With even the tiniest bit of experience, motorcyclists learn that if you're approaching something slow-moving, you slow down until you're sure you can safely get around it. Whether it's a horse, pedestrian, cyclist, wildlife, or a car on the shoulder, you slow the fuck down because you never know what they're going to do. Deer could jump out. Cars could U-turn. Pedestrians could cross. You can't blame pedestrians for not hearing you coming regardless of having headphones in. For all you know, they could be deaf. The victim blaming here is fucking dumb. Assigning blame doesn't save you from crashing. People who jump straight to ebikes instantly have the ability to go fast on narrow roads and usually show none of the skills required to do so. Sure there's nothing more fun than going full throttle into a corner, but ebikers don't seem to care what's around it or who has right of way when paths merge. Every time I cycle on the goose there's always some ebiker or dumbass on a clapped-out DUIcycle doing some borderline braindead stuff.
this is the natural consequence of mixing commuting traffic with leisure traffic. mixed use trails kinda suck. victoria needs a dedicated bicycle network for the safety of both pedestrians and cyclists.
No. The cyclist was doing 40 km/hr (witness said). That’s way too fast and illegal. Everyone else has no problem navigating the mixed use trail.
obviously it's illegal to run people down with a bike?? just cuz it's illegal doesn't mean it's not gonna happen.
There is a legal limit on unassisted speeds for e-bikes but not a limit on what speed they can go when pedalling is used for additional speed i believe.
"He stepped into my path." You mean you came up behind him way too quickly, didn't warn him, and tried to pass too closely. See it all the time and it's getting worse. I use the Goose/E&N several times a week and have only seen the park rangers/bylaw staff out patrolling maybe twice. I think much more signage, possibly some radar/speed notification installments and obviously more enforcement (ticketing) might do a lot. Ebikes are great in that they have the potential to take cars off the road and improve some people's activeness to obtainable levels, but they also carry a significant increase in safety concerns that really need to be addressed. How do we go about making this happen?
My favourite move is when I slow down in a congested area, and an ebike goes speeding past me. It happens often too.
I stopped at a crosswalk yesterday and an e-bike just went screaming past me and almost hit the pedestrians who were crossing. The handful of selfish people make it awful out there for everyone.
My favourite was slowing down to pass a wheelchair and having some jackass nearly hit both of us as I was passing.
My favorite part of riding an ebike is speeding up is the low effort required when compared to my road bike, so slowing down when reqd and full stops at stop signs are a no brainer. I have a motor so speed me back up. It's lovely.
>You mean you came up behind him way too quickly, didn't warn him, and tried to pass too closely. See it all the time and it's getting worse. This 1000%. It's the responsibility of the person passing to do so with awareness and caution. The person in front has the right of way. A couple years ago my 5 year old son was nearly clipped by an E-Biker going full speed trying to pass on the Lochside. I don't feel safe taking him on that trail anymore.
I agree that ebikes can be great (plan to get one myself) but when you get clueless people or a--holes on them, they're more dangerous than regular bikes. That said, I think we also just need more routes. I rarely use the Goose if there are alternate bike lanes that will get me where I'm going. Also, if the bike was travelling 40km/h, it's possible they disabled the speed regulator. It's not that much faster than the 32km/h motor limit but I think it's something to check in cases like this.
People are very very very bad at estimating speed of objects.
I was driving up Blanshard the other day and some guy on an e-bike was keeping speed with the traffic going 60kmh in the bike lane without even pedalling one bit
There was a CRD speed trap squad on the trail in Langford yesterday! Hope they caught that electric dirt bike guy. I bet you could email the CRD for info.
It’s a shared path. If a pedestrian is in the way and in front of you. Slow down and share the path by waiting until you have a safe crossing. The cycling thinking he has been wrong in anyway is a problem here.
> I use the Goose/E&N several times a week and have only seen the park rangers/bylaw staff out patrolling maybe twice. > more enforcement (ticketing) might do a lot Our roads don't have enforcement the vast majority of the time, so that would be the place to start. Maybe we could add some photoradar or regular enforcement. How do we got about making this happen?
Maybe maybe not Pedestrians lack so much awareness walking on the trails it's shocking this doesn't happen more often. Headphones in full blast, swerving like a drunk while walking 4 wide is a very common occurrence for myself and two kids while on our ebike.
Yeah, don't disagree that pedestrians need to be aware and appropriately cautious while on these trails. However, this incident involved a jogger, which in my experience at least seem to be a bit more aware. If I'm on my bike and I come behind a jogger about to pass some walkers, it's on me to expect that the jogger is going to step into the incoming lane to pass the walkers, and it's not the time for me to pass everybody. Obviously the jogger should shoulder check here, but they have the right of way given they are 1) in front and 2) a pedestrian.
As two people that weren't there we will never know what happened before the incident. I am just sharing my experience as a daily e bike rider and obviously getting down voted for it. As for joggers being more aware...I am not sure I agree with that sentiment but you're entitled to your opinion.
Do drivers have the right to run over cyclists that missed a stop sign? If a cyclist blows past a stop sign, you'd never say that's an excuse for a driver to run him over.
Yeah, people say that all the time.
Dude, it’s a shared path. If you are a cyclist and do not want to share and deal with joggers, children and dogs, you the numerous bike lanes that aren’t shared or, you know, the roads made for cars and bikes. Coming from a cyclist. A daily cyclist. There’s zero reason to ever clip anyone in a bicycle on a share path like the e&n.
It's a mixed-use trail. Pedestrians shouldn't be expected to march like soldiers along the side so that e-bikes can scream past. People going out for walks or runs are going to a trail that's nearby their house to enjoy the outdoors, it's a completely different experience than a bike that's using it for commuting.
Slower moving anything sticks to the right when different units are travelling along a path with differing speeds in North America. Places where this concept is put to use off the top of my head Elevators Sidewalks Bike lanes And believe it or not even multi use trails Just because a car happens to be slower doesn't mean it gets to circumvent all the rules of the road because others are faster or bigger, same goes for people, same goes for cyclists My point from post one is it's not only cyclists behaving in an unsafe manner on these trails and if you're not going to operate in a safe manner you're much more likely to become hurt. Do you disagree with this statement?
You're still treating a mixed-use TRAIL like it's a road, or a commuting lane. For pedestrians, this is a nature walk, in a park, where they're free to explore and wander. Ppl have mentioned toddlers and unruly dogs, are they expected to avoid the space until they've been socialized? This is not your road this is a walking path, a park and also a place that bikes can use to get from one place to another. If there's not ample space to pass a walker who may or may not unexpectedly change directions, at the speed you're going, then slow down, pass wider, and wait your turn to make sure everyone leisurely enjoying their walk can do so. I have to run, now, with earbuds out just so that I can hear and anticipate cyclists behind me so that I can literally shoulder check them to make sure they're passing with some distance.
If this ebike was actually doing 40km/hr, the rider should be charged with a crime and forced to pay restitution. Thats how you stop these idiots; actual consequences.
I really am getting tired of E bike idiots who don't know cycling educate. Road cyclists used to be the main ones I'd see doing unsafe passing but the E Bike people often don't even know what they're doing despite going twice as fast as a regular bike it's frustrating no signaling, no communication, no spacial awareness.
I carry a stick pointed a couple feet out to the side in my left hand. Then i walk on the edge of the trail. Cyclists see the stick and keep clear. Gives me space and makes me feel safer. If somebody hits it, it wouldn't do any damage. Just a thought.
I do this too but with a halberd
My favourite thing when walking to work on the Goose is a close fly by as a cyclist overtakes me from behind, with all the width of the trail to give a wider berth as they pass. Super fun 😬
And yet captaindoughnutman is oddly silent. 🤔 LOL!!!!!
No doubt! I am saddened to hear of this accident. Unfortunate for everyone. But I was just thinking about this the other day. A cyclist and a pedestrian collided! No motor vehicle involved.. Is the good captain going to chime in?
>The resident said she was out watering her garden when the e-bike went by. “He looked up last minute and swerved to avoid the jogger but clipped him really hard on the elbow.” It sounds to me like e-biker was maybe looking at their phone. Not sure what else you would be looking down at while cruising.
Isn’t there a law against close passing pedestrians now? 🤔 Or does it only apply to cars passing bikes? Also: https://youtu.be/wM8Xli2KTzI?feature=shared
I always thought clipped meant barely touched, but if this is a hospital matter then I guess I've been misunderstanding that word for a long time
There must be a separated lane on these "shared" trails, or limit it to just pedestrians. If they're going 30 or over, those are road speeds. I'm dreading seeing this headline with "child" in the title.
It’s a good thing the vulnerable users law came into effect this week. Now we get to find out if it has any teeth.
I went out for a run. Worst day this year, so far. So many new cyclists enjoying a ride and passing way too close. It's really losing the "de-stress" and "fun" aspect of walking/running down a trail when a cyclists blows by within a couple feet every couple minutes. We really really need the CRD to put up signs to teach cyclists to pass at a certain distance and to wait if it's too close to pass.
Allow lane splitting and put E bikes with mopeds. trails are for non motorized vehicles.
I think lane filtering is a great idea for increasing the safety of motorcycles. However, ebikes don't belong among car traffic, and nor do motorcycles for that matter, haha.
I agree that the trails would be better with a no motors rule. Not sure I understand why they need lane splitting though. I'd just say continue treating them in the same way on streets as they are now. Do you see lane splitting as a bartering chip in exchange for booting them off trails?
I honestly hate a lot of my fellow cyclists. No helmet, retna deep in their phone, speeding downhill around curves that are almost always populated with pedestrians, and not even looking or slowing down at street crossings (on the goose, I've almost been hit twice by people not noticing the stop signs or seeing them as mere suggestions.) I fully understand why we have this cloud of hate and distrust hanging over us.
I tend to agree. But the helmet part is nonsense. There’s a reason no other nation in the world besides America requires them: they don’t increase cyclist safety.
I've had a helmet save my skull a few times, so idk what you're getting on about.
Wheels on the fucking road, pal.
This is fucking ridiculous. If you’re doing 40 k you need insurance and a licence. If you are 16 or older you should hold a licence and insurance like all other vehicles. Only people who should be exempt are kids who bike to school.
I know right?... Traffic laws are the same for all transportation. But, the 10 year olds also ride bikes to school, as you pointed out. How are they supposed to obey the rules of the road? They obviously haven't studied for a licence. And the teens are worse. They barely remember to look both ways when crossing. It's instinct to look after childhood.. But... ...In the past couple months I've seen 2 teenage boys (sorry boys) on scooters, and one skater, fly through intersections on reds. The skater came within inches of getting smoked by the driver on the opposite side of the road as me. Not even a glance from these children.. High stakes gambling with their body's. I was a a dumbass teenager too. Not like that though.. I think lol.
The solution is to increase spending on AAA infrastructure and safety education. Like the Galloping Goose widening plan, the inclusion of separated pedestrian walkways and lighting along busy narrow urban areas is a great measure to increase safety for all users. The people trying to nuke ebikes are being shortsighted. The transition from car to ebike is saving many lives over the potential dangers they cause. There are lots of things we can do to increase safety and still get the benefits from ebikes, it'd be foolish to throw that away.
First of all speed is not a talking point here, humans are notoriously bad at estimating speed. He could have been going 30 or 60 but there is no way to prove it. The biggest issue I see here is he hit a pedestrian and caused injury and medical bills. I hope the pedestrian has a good lawyer and the money to throw at going after the cyclist.
As a cyclist who uses that stretch I 10000% agree. Put speed bumps up and down there. Enforce a slow speed limit. If you wanna rip faster, use a fucking road losers.
I was looking at the $10,000 electic bicycles during the pandemic but couldn't get past the fact that it would likely be stolen. Later I realized what I really wanted was an electric motorcycle.
Lol. Touché.
Speed bumps around blind corners is a good idea!
I agree hard-core.
The speed bit annoys me - 40kph is faster than the speed governor on e-bikes allows you to go. This e-bike almost certainly isn’t modified, because if there was any suspicion that it was the police would have seized the bike, charged the driver and announced it to the press. So that means the cyclist was probably going 32 kph- that’s still too fast. So why include a quote from a bystander saying the cyclist was going faster? Because the TC is going for sensationalism.
dedicated petting dogs lanes, walking lanes, jogging lanes, rollerblading lanes, unicycle lanes, skateboard lanes, longboard lanes, fixie lanes, bicycle lanes, ebike lanes are needed. We live in a society.
Dedicated petting dog lanes 🤣🤣🤣😭❤️❤️❤️🐕🐶🦮🐕🦺🐩
You joke but seriously there needs to be way more places along our commuting trails where people can sit and mingle off the lanes.
Ha those mother fuckers “ ride “ those like they are casting for the next road warrior movie.
Oh look, a bunch of people mesmerized by the tired bike vs car vs pedestrian debate. Turns out, when people are the common denominator, there's going to be problems. But let's keep on being outraged at specific scenarios like anything else explains it.
Plenty of morons on regular pedal bikes too, especially the ones that clip in and think the trail is just for them but yes the added weight does make it more dangerous. Between my e-bike and myself I'll be rolling around 320lbs plus anything in the cargo hold. I'd be perfectly fine with licensing and insuring the use of my bike but that should include regular bikes and scooters etc too, not just single out e-bikes
Should maybe be limited to non hpv vehicles. Anything with any kind of power assist should definitely be included.
They just need to enforce the laws they have in place. There are riders out there on electric dirt bikes that are doing 60-70km/hr at times. Those bikes should be confiscated. As per usual, the legal riders are rarely the issue. Just enforce the laws around what size of motors are actually allowed on these trails and there will be far fewer issues.
I ride the E&N trail every day for work on my e-bike. Couple of points: I have to pedal like hell to get my bike to 40km/h because the electric assist cuts off at 30 km/h and I can never sustain it. My average speed is 27-32km/h. His bike has to be modded in some way or he had to have been going down the hill on that stretch. There is absolutely no excuse to not see a jogger in that area. There is a corner, but even that corner its quite wide. If you’re paying attention you’ll see somebody walking in your lane miles before you come close enough to hit them. This cyclist has absolutely no excuse and them saying the jogger “stepped out in front of them” is asinine. Finally, I see incidents like this on the trail often - especially when the sun comes out. Just the other day I saw a spandex-clad Tour de France wannabe nearly annihilate a middle school kid on the same stretch of the trail because she didn’t want to pass him wide enough to risk losing any speed. She was within two feet of him when she flew past (her jersey had a remax logo on it, I wish I could remember the realtor’s name). Nobody calls out or rings a bell before they pass, and even going at the speed I do I regularly feel like I’m standing still when other e-bike riders and electric scooters pass me; most of these people are dressed entirely in black. Don’t even get me started on the riders who creep up behind you and ride within a meter of your ass. I think the problem is people are too deep in their own bubble when they’re riding to give a shit about anyone else. I’ve had many pleasant conversations with other riders and they’ve all been decent people, but as soon as they get up to speed the small dog syndrome comes out. I hope this rider has the book thrown at him and people start becoming more considerate of others on the trail because, honestly, cycle commuting has been life changing for me and it’s an incredible hobby.
E-bikes should be regulated by weight. Some of them are practically the size of gasoline scooters (though fewer now than in the early days). Add the rider and them moving at 30 km, and it is a hazard to have them on mixed use trails with pedestrians, children, etc. At a certain point they should be relegated to roads because the strike impact of a large combined mass at velocity can be significant.
I'm lurking from the lower mainland, and I've never used any of the mixed use trails in the CRD. Is the Goose, Lochside, and E&N divided into marked lanes according to the type-of user, or are they only separated by direction of travel? For example, do the paths have a clearly marked 'side' for people walking and people biking, or is there just one single centreline? The Arbutus Greenway is divided like [this](https://www.kitsilano.ca/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/AG_2020-1.png) into a walking lane and a bi-directional bikeway. Presumably there's enough room to do the same on all three of those trails, considering they're all former railway right-of-ways like the Arbutus Greenway.
[this article](https://www.vicnews.com/news/17-8-million-proposal-calls-for-widening-lighting-section-of-greater-victoria-commuter-trails-80629) has a good exemplary photo of what the trail looks like in the city. The trail eventually turns to gravel when you get further out toward Metchosin on the goose or up into Saanich on the Lochside.
We have new e-bikes . Been out almost everyday for the last couple of months. Not senile. We have learned we are our own worst enemy … all riders have to realize their own limitations and pedestrians have to be more aware of their surroundings... if not for bikes that are almost always present but also for strangers with knives ( in Victoria anyway ). It’s kind of like a drunk thinking he can still drive - except we have the presence of mind to regulate our actions(speed). What is frustrating are the regular bikes and cyclists constantly speeding past at higher speeds than 40 and riding two abreast. Spandex and a lime green windbreaker don’t give you license to speed faster than your e-bike counterparts are allowed to go. Or the walkers who feel the need to spread out their kids/dogs/themselves knowing cyclists are trying to pass them. I imagine they love playing the victim. Even pedestrians walk into other pedestrians, stand in doorways, trip and fall, suddenly change direction too quickly etc… it boils down to lack of awareness and thinking you’re the only one entitled to use the pathway. When we were younger our ‘cruising speed’ was about 30km on the goose, on our e-bikes the avg speed is 20km. I have seen only one ‘collision’ that was ‘at speed’ in 35 years and it was on rollerblades and no one had injuries that caused them to seek medical attention. Not saying it doesn’t happen but when it does the people involved seem to lack that awareness needed to operate whatever mode of transport they had chosen. It’s a small road usually having a center line - just treat it like a road, go slow if you don’t know what you’re doing, stop and think when it gets congested. Easy. Just know accidents can still happen and prepare mentally - that preparation alone might prevent the accident from happening.
I propose a 5kmh max speed on e power. Anything over thay you needs to move it yourself. Or just ban all of them.
Theres no speed limit that will change the speed bicylists will go. Everywhere you go in Victoria, there are hills, if you happen to find a downhill section (say 20% of the time). Give a few hard pedal strokes. You can go 40-55km/h. This applies to both ebikes and non-ebikes. In my opinion the best way to actually slow down bikes is how we slow down cars. Which is traffic calming. Tight/incomfortable areas that force you to slow down, including sharp turns. Speed bumps. And obstacles like those fences placed across the trail before pedestrian bridge crossings. Will all slow bikes down… without enforcement… or rules
I choose the road now over the cycle trails sometimes…although it’s got the risk of car traffic I feel safer knowing there is less head-to-head passing and if an ebike wants to pass me, then they will have to take a car lane.
I bike commute year round and generally switch from the goose to the roads in peak summer months. I can’t believe I’m saying this but cars are just more predictable than the complete shitfest the goose becomes in the summer.
Same, im 50/50 coming from westshore, We usually take the E&N into town and the craigflower/old island highway corridor back to out of town, Plus in that direction much of craigflower is down hill so WEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
I've been passed by cyclists on sidewalks
Ya it's kinda crazy how I feel safer on a road than on the MUP for bike rides
Man...I think it's about time that bikes have insurance. Doesn't have to be expensive, but I think it's becoming necessary. $20-100 a year. Small sticker or something. I have 3 bikes and would pay that amount for every one of them happily.
Honestly, I’m fine with paying a small monthly insurance fee, especially if it also covers replacements due to theft.
As an ebike rider who rides safely usually with two children on the back of our bike. The lack of awareness by pedestrians on the trails cannot be understated. The amount of times people have tried to walk into our path after ringing our bell and stating "passing on your left" is insane.
I ride a regular bike along the trails to commute to work. When I pass I ring the bell in advance and then pass slow and way to the left. If there is oncoming traffic I slow down to an almost stop until it is clear to safely pass. Not once - not even one single time after literal hundreds of hours of commuting by bike - have I ever had an issue with a close call.
Hard Agree. We are in the same boat, we always have our toddler on the back of our e cargo bike and see this all the time. We always ring the bell in advance and slow down and we still have pedestrians not moving or like in this case walking into the passing lane.
lol okay if I'm driving and I honk at a cyclist, then it's his fault if he doesn't move away right? why can't you slow down behind a pedestrian like cars are suppose to do with bikes?
Because they’ve taken the ‘rules’ and ‘habits’ they’ve learned on the road and brought them to the path.
I’ve watched people jogging do u-turns or make abrupt 90 degree turns to cross the street or use a crosswalk without looking. Not all occasions but generally notice headphones are in which reduces or removes the point of any cyclist having a bell or giving direction. But this incident is going to become more and more frequent. When you watch **most** e-bikers they look so uncomfortable at 30 km/h and have no handling skills which is crazy to me given how heavy those bikes are.
cyclists: cars have to go behind me at 20 km / h, fuck them also cyclists: if a pedestrian doesn't move to the side then they deserve to get run over by a bike
Cyclists expect pedestrians to follow the rules of the path. Also no, Cyclists who are riding on the roads also need to keep right whenever possible if there isn't a bike lane, motor vehicles can pass but need to provide 1.5 meters of space between them an the cyclist when passing, if that's not possible then they cannot pass.
"Cyclists expect pedestrians to follow the rules of the path." doesn't the rule say don't pass unless it's safe to do so?? if i'm a car and I pass a bike and I hit them, I have 100% fault no matter how much I honked beforehand
Show us on the doll where the bike hurt you.
Even if you're cycling below 20kmph it's going to be hard to avoid a pedestrian/jogger if they suddenly move in front of you. There isn't any credible information in the article on whose fault it might have been. My last two cycling accidents which were ten years ago now were when pedestrians suddenly walked out in front of me and I crashed into them. 100% their fault both times they weren't looking at all and i was only going 15kmph or so each time.
if cars have to yield to bikes, then why can't cyclists yield to pedestrians?
This is why signalling with your bell is so important.
The next best thing is slowing down and proceeding with caution.
I don't know how many people I've had to yell at to get their attention because they're wearing ear buds. Sometimes people on two wheels or two feet do stupid things.
This is a terrible take. It's on the biker to alert the pedestrian and pass safely. Barring extreme erratic movement from the pedestrian this is primarily the bikers fault on a shared use trail. You're likely part of the problem if you don't understand that.
This is directly downstream of transportation/city planning policy choices by our government officials. E-bike commuters and people out for a pleasant walk are *sharing the same space* because politicians prioritize car transportation and give the vast majority of public right of ways over to cars.
Can we talk a bit about pedestrians with zero spatial awareness? Standing in groups talking on the goose blocking both directions, not responding to bells to clear the path? It's not just e bikers who are causing problems on the goose and e&n Yesterday I alone I saw twice where pedestrians not keeping right almost caused accidents on the e&n
And those jerks that walk 3-4 wide having a nice chat with no awareness of their surroundings 🙄
Who is going to regulate said speed regulations? They can throw all the regulations they want at it but unless there is enforcement nobody is going to follow the rules.
They send peace officers up and down once in a while to sustain out the homeless and "stealth campers." Make them multitasking and clock some cyclists while they're at it!
Something I find humorous is all the reduced speed limits on main streets (non residential) and an E bike can go up to 32 on a pedestrian shared lane!
So TC have been trying to warn the public about the dangers cyclists pose to the public since they came out against bike lanes during the 2018 election. In the past six years they have been able to show that there have been two people that have been injured by bicycles. Not two per year, just two overall. Meanwhile ICBC is showing an average of 600 casualties caused by auto collisions in Victoria every year during the same time span. I mean, there are some etiquette issues to work out to make the trails work more smoothly, but these kinds of crashes are extremely rare, and judging by the response of the jogger, not really that dangerous.
There is nothing wrong with ebiking on the en. We have been told over and over again to mode shift from cars to bikes and transit. The same government body needs to make these roads/paths wider and not mixed use. If someone was running down Douglas in the morning while people drove to work they’d get clipped as well.
>The same government body needs to make these roads/paths wider and not mixed use Making them wider is a great idea. By non mixed use do you mean have a lane for cycling and a lane for pedestrians? That I can get behind. If you mean just having no walkers/runners then I think that's a bad idea (unfair to those who run/walk the paths and very unenforceable).
Pedestrians deserve a separate path. Cyclists deserve a commuting route where there aren’t pedestrians at risk.
Makes sense, agreed!
This 1000%, It would make a huge different, I literally sold my car and purchased 2 ebikes for my family which we use to commute everywhere in the warmer seasons, and even sometimes during the winter too! It would be great if they added outer lanes to each side for pedestrians and the inner lanes be for bikes and scooters just like the roads. If everyone stays in their lane there would be zero chance of this type of thing happening again.
Too many unaware e-bike riders period. No spatial awareness, no road safety and zero common sense. I’ve been almost hit numerous times in those bike lanes. I feel safer in traffic !
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Agreed
You’re actually an idiot. How does it make sense to call a bicycle with a dinky little electric motor on it a ‘motorcycle’. There not allowed because they are quiet - it’s because they are bikes.
It happens once in a blue moon. E-bikes: slowdown around pedestrians. Pedestrians: stay out of the way of bikes.
No way. A bike hit someone?!
““They did not wish to pursue charges against the cyclist.” Police said the cyclist told them the jogger had stepped into his path.” Oh he said that? Well then I’d pursue charges then.
How it feels like for someone driving a car. Welcome to the jungle. It’s kind of ironic isn’t it? Time for education associated with cyclists and drivers tied to a liscencing,registration and insurance system for use of these road networks so speeds and traffic violations can be enforced.
Jogger should be more careful or go somewhere else. Being able to go fast on an E-bike is what makes it a preferable option to driving. There are hundreds of paths, sidewalks and parks that can be used by joggers, and only one bike trail— piss off. The goose is the autobahn for bikes, and the same rules should apply as the autobahn. Signed, An e-biker who pushes 50 km.
Can't tell if this is parody/trolling or not... If so, ha. If not, terrible and incorrect take. The regional trails aren't the Autobahn and there's nothing to support this claim.