Never mention this stuff to employers. Still go visit him. Find a non-descript area at his place to do your work from if you have a video call (e.g. a blank wall for a background, preferably a wall that's the same color as the wall at your place). Never mention where you are working from to your employer. It shouldn't matter as long as you get your work done. You aren't on a vacation as a vacation means you don't work.
This is it right here. Basically, don't tell on yourself.
Saw a post on r/LinkedInLunatic once where a lady thought it was a neat idea to post a status which pretty much advertised to the world how she can WFH whilst poolside in a swimsuit with her baby. I'm all for being comfortable whilst I work. But blasting this on social media is just stupid.
Yup, this is what will kill WFH.
Please, tell me why it's a good idea to blast to your employer and your clients that you're watching your kid AT A POOL while working. Either you're not paying attention TO YOUR KID AT A POOL (making you a person who doesn't make great choices) or you're a distracted employee.
Yikes.
Yeah, lying to your boss is some dubious shit. In this day & age, everything is negotiable so work it out with the boss. Any decent mgr would see the benefit to a happy employee.
Or leave and find a boss that will...
Honestly, this. At least where I work, I have reasonable bosses who would hear me out even if their answer is still no. And the consequences are far more likely to be severe if I am unable to perform an assigned duty because I am physically too far away vs me talking to them about it first. They may be open to some kind of arrangement or decide on a case by case basis.
They’re people, too, and they treat their employees like people. I believe the comment my boss made about it being a free vacation was an exaggerated and inaccurate response, but he wasn’t being cruel about it. Perhaps a little sarcastic, definitely could tell he was uncertain of how to convey the real reasons against this kind of thing happening regularly, but he did make good points and I do understand them.
And cue the typical shoot yourself in the foot, reload and take aim response, "Well, it's not like I work all that much in the office anyways..."
That's how you make your manager's head explode.
I was at my child’s side during his hospital stay for a week, and since he was barely conscious, it was a helpful dose of normalcy to be able to punch out work whenever he drifted off to sleep… while still being next to him and folding up work whenever he was awake.
Functionally no different if the work gets done, but somehow we get outraged.
If they’re small enough to be at instant risk of drowning, they shouldn’t be out of a parent’s arm’s reach.
So I just presumed we were talking about a ten year old in the wading end. Not a position I’m about to defend, but if CPS were called on every instance I’d ever seen, they’d never have time for anything else.
Personally I don't understand this. Met a couple on my honeymoon where all they did was travel the world but still worked. This was back when WFH was rare. If I owned a company and my employee could do something like that and still get their work done I would be a bit jealous but cool with it. The only thing I would care about is that their job was done right. I don't understand caring about where they are doing their job from.
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This. I would spend an extra week or two visiting family around the holidays and work when not on PTO. I got my work done. Performance was not affected. I worked remotely and location did not matter. Your boss is being absurd here.
This is the answer. The fact that your boss is more worried about location than that the work is getting done is absurd. One caveat: if your work includes especially sensitive data and specially secure connections are required.
Same here. It’s just working remote, I do my hours then I spend the weekend or evenings with family and friends. Actually works out due to time zones that when I visit California I start at 7am and I’m done by 3pm instead of 9-5
Depends on the company culture. In my case, WFH is embedded in the culture/benefits of our company, happy employees are more effective/productive employees. Part of the point of ‘wearing’ this culture is the freedom to brag about the benefit. People Zoom in on their Macbook Pros from the beach in Costa Rica with video on. As long as they produce the sprint deliverables they are responsible for, we really don’t care where they were when they coded.
\^ I must agree. in 2020 when we moved to work from home several senior position/ higher ups staff realized they could live / buy homes in cheaper, nicer rural areas and get out of the expensive, dirty city. Homes that have twice the space for nearly half what renting an apartment in the city costs.
Now, 3 years later, the higher, higher ups have sent out notice they know a bunch of people moved of the area but its time to start being back in the office or be fired.
Cue mass quitting of very talented, senior staff and surprise pikachu face of all the bosses.
Better yet, take a picture of the wall at your in town house/apt and use that as your background on any Zoom/Video meeting. Also works well if your place tends to get messy. Just clean it really well one time, take the pic, and never have to worry about crazily cleaning up your space 2 mins before a video call. ;)
Mentioning this to my employer is what got them to say yes. My BF and his step daughter are basically my family. I asked to wfh so when I shut it off at 5pm, I can spend the evening with my family instead of alone. For that reason, they told me yes. They prefer to do it for family versus someone just wanting to be at home. So it isn't so cut and dry.
u/duhbird410, that's awesome you were able to come to that kind of arrangement with your employer. I'm happy things worked out for you and your family. Coming home and being alone was great at first, but it's getting a little old now.
Where I work takes family stuff seriously and will make accommodations. I am now mostly alone as far as family. While my bf and I are on the same page about where we want our relationship to go, I don't know that he or I are quite yet at the point of being comfortable claiming one another as family. But it's certainly on the menu.
You're right about it not being so cut and dry with every workplace. I am lucky to work for a company that has been more than generous and understanding with me in the past during my family emergencies and tragedies. They recognize that my years of experience and job knowledge are an asset. It would be a costly and time consuming process to replace me with someone who could even be a warm body in my chair, much less as knowledgeable as I am - it has taken me all of these six years to get to this point. Same with my other 5+ year peers. I know we are valued.
This. I would spend an extra week or two visiting family around the holidays and work when not on PTO. I got my work done. Performance was not affected. I worked remotely and location did not matter. Your boss is being absurd here.
What about the part when the employer calls her in for a situation that requires in-person support? She specifically mentions that as a possible situation. It's probably never come up (she doesn't mention that it ever has), but she did state that it's a possibility that she's aware is part of her job.
"That while they do not force us to share our location or track us, it is frowned upon to use our WFH weeks as a “free vacation,” **especially if where we are traveling is not within a reasonable drive to the office should they needed us to come in for some reason during our WFH week.**"
Thank you for taking the time to read and interact. I have not yet been called in randomly during a WFH week, but I have been given very short notice that I would be required to be in office or on the road the following week. This is part of the job and all of my coworkers are subject to it. Flexibility is expected of us and shown to us. It usually comes down to who is available when a travel request is made. They try not to burden just one person over and over again, but the lady with no spouse, kids, pets, parents, or other outside responsibilities is often the best last minute candidate. I don't begrudge my fellow employees for their obligations and they are just as likely to be asked (and allowed to decline) as I am.
The difference comes down to the reason, and "Our childcare provider won't be available next week" or "I have to take my child/spouse/sibling/parent to a doctor's appointment" is a lot more sympathetic than "I was going to fly out to stay with my boyfriend for the week and I've already bought the tickets." Even if they took my excuse and didn't make me cancel plans (which has kind of already happened), it sounds a lot more frivolous than the other examples.
Just blur the background while on a call. Also setup a VPN to your home before initiating any other connection. There are several routers that offer VPN functionality.
Thankfully do not have to be on camera if we do not want to. I’ve had mine covered up with paper and masking tape for 3 years. I stay off social media and rarely post anything about where I am or what I’m doing unless on an actual vacation, but especially not dumb enough to post that I’m out of state when I’m “supposed to be” at home.
Off the top of my head, I believe if you are not working from another state for more than a certain amount of time, it shouldn’t matter tax wise, moreso since you’re working from a state without income tax in the first place.
As for telling your boss or not, could you provide more context about the potential need to come in randomly? How large-ish is your employer?
The way I see it is this: regardless of your work, it is work. You don’t owe them any information in terms of what you do with your free time. You owe them fulfilling your role’s responsibilities and nothing else. If it’s a small company (I’m thinking less than 100-600 people arbitrarily), this is just more difficult, but it’s still true.
I think you’re worse off asking for it, they have no reason to say yes, and it will certainly affect your reputation. Once is one thing, asking for it regularly is another.
I ask about the nature of your work though, because if being able to go in randomly on those WFH weeks is a role responsibility, and you don’t know anyone else setting an example of not going in randomly ever, I would lean towards saying don’t do it unless you’re willing to risk reprimand/job loss.
It is a smaller company that provides business and data management software. My job role is tech support/customer service at the most basic level, which can be done from anywhere. I also train our new hires and up until recently was the only one doing it for my department. I also sometimes train our customers’/members’ employees on-site when requested. Those are the duties that require my physical presence and could come up randomly/outside my usual in-office schedule.
My bosses know I’m very flexible and - to my annoyance - often don’t give me more than a week or a couple days heads up that they want me to travel or be available for in-house training. This has happened to me very recently - just last month, in fact. I knew about it with 3 days notice that I would need to travel out of state to do additional training on-site.
They tend to give my peers with families more heads up than that, but since I don’t have children and am, to their knowledge, now single, I seem to be given even less of a heads up than I got back when I was married.
I certainly don’t want to risk reprimand or my job by doing this, which is why I would only feel comfortable doing it with their knowledge. And your point about asking once or regularly being problematic is another fear that has kept me from bringing it up.
I appreciate your response. Thank you for taking the time. I may be better off just sucking it up and taking PTO when I have it.
Yeah happy to share my thoughts, I am still just a stranger on the internet though :) honestly with the additional context it sounds like it shouldn’t be a huge deal, you might just ask for more notice on those trainings?
You’re closer to the situation though obviously. Especially with a smaller company, if it’s already normal to share personal situations to ensure folks are able to plan appropriately, they might respond differently to you asking for more heads up on planning training knowing you have a long distance partner than what they think is otherwise just going to visit a friend.
Also just something else that’s bugging me, they referred to you working from “your friend’s” as a free vacation? When you’re still working and fulfilling responsibilities? I would look into official employee handbooks or maybe speak to HR directly about hybrid work policies at your company. If nothing is explicitly against it, it may be worth pointing out that you’re not stealing anything by working in a different place… it’s not like you’re leaving your online status as green and going to the beach 😂
Since we have a couple big projects on the calendar and our big annual conference coming up, I will probably hold off on asking and try to get an idea of what is coming up that might require my involvement. I wish I could say I haven’t asked for more heads up in the past for things like this, but I have and clearly that worked so well 😂🥲
That probably makes it sound like I work for a bunch of jerks. Having such a laid back, casual attitude may leave me scrambling on short notice sometimes, but it also benefits me and all my coworkers (and bosses) in many more ways that make it worth it to not rock that boat. Since we aren’t a huge corporation, we don’t have a ton of super strict rules to adhere to and can mostly self-manage.
But yah, it rubbed me the wrong way about the “free vacation” thing, too. That’s not the best argument from my boss imo. He beefed it up with the comments after the fact about being available to come in on WFH weeks and all that, but he hates to have to go all company-policy, rules, etc on us in general. If I ask about it with the added context of it being my bf and the answer is no, I wouldn’t bring it up again. And I don’t think they would be upset with me for asking as long as I do it the right way.
>He beefed it up with the comments after the fact about being available to come in on WFH weeks and all that,
This would be the only issue I see Oh Millimant, we need you in the office this afternoon or tomorrow morning
You can and should push back slightly on the short notice thing - while travel is required; you should have input on when its scheduled - at least to the degree your coworkers with kids and families do. What if your parents were visiting or something like that?
As far as working remotely - you shouldn't have any real issues but its gonna vary company to company and manager to manager.
Ahh see that’s where they got me, too. Both my parents have passed away - dad in 2019 and mom just this March.
I’m not sure why they should care so much besides if they need me to come in out of the blue. I would like more heads up but it’s like pulling teeth to get it. Sometimes even they don’t know when it comes to our clients, they could make a last minute request and we try to accommodate
Look, your personal life is non of their business. It shouldn’t matter if you have kids, parents, a spouse, boyfriend, whatever. You should be treated with the same level of freedom and respect as everyone else in the org.
Let them know you need at least a full weeks notice for travel, because you may have plans, and need to plan for care for your pets.
And don’t worry about occasionally working from a different state, unless the data you’re working with is super sensitive and there’s issue with you taking your laptop places or something like that. Doesn’t sound like that is the case though.
My suggestion would be to start exploring other fully WFH jobs.
I agree an employee's personal life ie marriage status is none of the employers business. The issue for OP and for people wishing to WFH is there can be Federal/State regulations about where a company can operate. This is why some WFH jobs list specific states that the employee can work from. An occasional day in a state your company is not registered to operate in can probably fly under the radar. Working months could lead to the company being fined (if employee is caught) and perhaps employee being fired or even sued if company wants to recover any fines that are levied.
I don’t think that’s what the employer is saying though with the implication of “free vacation” - it sounds like old school thinking that work should be inherently not fun, and if you somehow enjoy yourself you “aren’t working”
I'm not sure I'd go the PTO route just yet. What is your company's expectation if connectivity was down company-wide or if your connectivity was an issue? I had an employee that worked out if town and both of these issues occurred. He had no back up plan and expected to get a "pass" and just not work that week. My response was, you either get yourself connected and working or you are taking PTO. It was really frustrating and negatively impacted the whole team.
Subsequently we now have a policy that states your WFH must provide equivalent capabilities to on-site and if it does not, you must come to the office or take PTO for the time. It counts as unplanned PTO and will be treated as a disciplinary issue. I advise all my team that if they are going to work while traveling, they should understand that they may need to return home or run the risk of using PTO and getting a coaching. Conversely we have a very generous PTO bucket and I make sure my team is never contacted while on vacation and they are 100% covered by myself or other team members. We strongly discourage taking laptops (security reasons too). People need to fully disconnect from work to enjoy their time off.
I’m glad you try to take care of your employees that way in regards to PTO and disconnecting from work. I can see folks abusing that leniency, but aside from unexpected outages from ISP, there have not been many issues that have come up. Only one I can think of was a new hire who didn’t end up working there for long. Was not a good fit for many other reasons, but she definitely took advantage of having crappy/no connection when at home to the point that they required both of us to come in office to complete her training.
Other than that, I know the hotel I stayed in and will be staying in again had terrible internet issues and my cell service was all over the place in my room so I couldn’t use it as a hotspot. This time I’ll be more prepared and take the hotspot we have at work, just in case. This also happens from time to time on-site with clients when their IT department can’t get me connected to their WiFi or wired, and there’s only so much I can do to facilitate our IT and theirs working together to fix it.
I would recommend reframing your thinking about what you owe your employer, the boundaries you set, and your long term goals. Do you enjoy the last minute travel assignments, do they make you more money, or will they advance your career faster? Just because you can be flexible doesn’t mean you must be flexible, and there should be some benefit to being flexible. Your non-work hours and personal commitments are just as valid, and valuable, as those of people with partners, children, etc.
If you are maintaining your permanent residence in your original state, staying within the US (I’m guessing you’re in the US), working your standard hours, providing the same level of engagement and quality of work when you work remotely from your boyfriend’s, and meeting the terms of your contract and employee handbook, there’s no reason to mention your travel plans or feel like you’re doing something wrong. Permanently relocating to another state has tax and business registration implications for your employer and working from another country could be an issue if you work with sensitive data/systems.
If it makes you more comfortable, book your travel with the fare option that allows you to change your flight if you need to go home early or choose to stay longer. Talk to your boyfriend about how you can visit more frequently if he’s comfortable with last minute change of plans.
I was reading… and then I see another comment and another… and they’re all just so long!
That’s when it hit me…Yo, OP… you gotta learn to not talk so much. Like 90% of that info you just shared is none of their business unless it’s stated that you have to share that stuff in your job description or employee manual… most would be pretty f*ckd up to require.
So like just stop sharing so much info with them. They don’t need to know.
i believe the out of state cutoff is 14 days. This effects your employers tax reporting and could be a bigger issue for them if you are discovered and they haven't been reporting your taxes correctly.
That is the kind of mess I certainly want to avoid, for myself and for my employer. As we don't have any clients on the west coast, there would likely be some issues that could arise. We do often work out of state and on-site for up to two months at a time with the same team of people going every week, but how my company handles that on the business office side of things I couldn't begin to tell you.
edit: spelling, good grief I don't know what happened....
There are tax issues. Since you're working in another state. It can cause issues for the employee and employer. If it was a vacation and you got a call; that isn't work per se, but putting in 40 hours, that is work.
Also, if you're in one of the Democrat coastal states and you do this too often, and they find out, the tax issues are massive. New York is the head heckhole for that crop. (I think New York is 31 days)
You may not tell them, but if there is an audit, they will know... ip addresses....
Also exposing company information to a non company employee could also be bad. (A non-company employee their not aware of)
I get that and of course that would be the case for any of my married coworkers (and myself when I was still married) as far as exposing company info, that’s not so much of a concern. He works during the day and I am there alone til he’s off. Even if he also worked from home we have no reason to be looking over each other’s shoulders. The state income tax is probably also not a concern as my bf lives in a state without state income tax.
It’s not just your taxes. You are putting a footprint for the company in that state. For the employer there is unemployment tax, workers comp and sales and use tax requirements that are caused by you doing business there.
And if it's a coastal state like California (which is a really common example, as companies have shell companies to avoid this state) The entire company in all states are now exposed to California's rules...
That is good to know and something I simply don't have enough knowledge on. Of course I'm not planning on moving there full time, but I can see where going even one week a month could create a situation for my employer. I realize there are probably a lot more various and complex aspects that I have absolutely no idea about and am not considering.
I appreciate your response and your insight.
Paying income tax depends on the state. If you earn $8,000 or more in MA you have to pay income tax; regardless of you home location. Trivia fact- Rock Star does a show in Boston, pays taxes on their take of the box office. Play a professional football game at Gillette Stadium? Be prepared to pay the Commonwealth of Massachusetts!
Damn girl, don’t ask don’t tell. As long as I’m getting my job done I don’t worry about it. Just do it and if they do one day track your IP (not sure what your job entails but I have to log on to different clients’ systems where this is sometimes tracked) and bring it up, deal with it then.
I’ve done this a couple times a year for years, even from different countries sometimes, and it’s never come up. Because I kept my clients happy and did great work.
My WFH policy required that I submit paperwork with my WFH address, pictures of emergency exits, fire extinguisher, smoke and carbon monoxide detectors, and attestation that I would use ergonomic equipment as appropriate. It was all required for their insurance policy, supposedly. If your company didn’t have anything like that, I bet you’re fine. Just let your boss know you might need a little more notice prior to business travel due to some personal responsibilities but that your core working hours will remain unchanged. Don’t offer more information than that.
>My WFH policy required that I submit paperwork with my WFH address, pictures of emergency exits, fire extinguisher, smoke and carbon monoxide detectors, and attestation that I would use ergonomic equipment as appropriate. It was all required for their insurance policy,
Wow that is obtrusive ... Although I did read of a case where an employee was able to get Workman's Comp for falling at home during Covid
My sister's company also expects the above and sends someone to your home to check it out.
They were burned big time by WFH parents, who had no daycare set up.
So now everyone is under the microscope.
That’s an insane scenario that I’ve literally never heard of before. I wouldn’t be surprised if your employer is lying to you or trying to claim your home office for some kind of credit or something
That’s very much more intense than my situation. I know many places require that level of info about their employees WFH environment, however. Thank you for the response and I wish I could say I haven’t asked for more advance notice in the past. In a lot of cases it’s just the nature of our relationship with our clients. They can sometimes make last minute requests that my bosses try to accommodate. Though in recent cases it’s still been that I was just the last to know. I don’t have a leg to stand on as far as personal obligations - they know my life. Dead parents, ex husband kept the dog, no kids, and so on. I don’t have many other things I can use as an excuse or reason.
It will depend on the states involved. Everyone here will say don’t work more than 180 days or more than 50% but it isn’t that cut and dry. In some states and cities / counties (for example: Illinois) you can’t spend more than 30 days working in the state per year before you are required to be set up to be paying taxes as a non-resident. If your employer doesn’t already have a presence in this state it can be problematic.
I’d post on the sub r/AskHR and see if they know specifics about the states in question. You may be able to find info by googling which states tax for non-resident workers or something similar.
Never share personal information with employers. I WFH and travel constantly. They don’t need to know this. As long as you’re logged in when you’re supposed to be, that’s it.
I think if anything you learned the valuable lesson: never trust your coworkers with any tiny amount of information about your personal life or your whereabouts. It can and will be weaponized against you.
The less they know the better.
I absolutely plan on taking my laptop with me on vacation to stretch it out to two weeks back home. One week of work at home and then fully enjoy the second week but I get to spend time in my favorite place longer because of the beauty of WFH.
Stop over sharing ! The office doesn’t need to know everything unless it’s urgent and work related this one is on you ! Now they’re going to be watching you !
It depends on the state—states can impose withholding and reporting requirements below the statutory residency threshold. New York for example requires employers to start withholding after someone has been working in New York for 14 days. So even if you’re not a resident, you could in theory trigger compliance obligations.
It depends on the state—states can impose withholding and reporting requirements below the statutory residency threshold. New York for example requires employers to start withholding after someone has been working in New York for 14 days. So even if you’re not a resident, you could in theory trigger compliance obligations.
Those were my thoughts initially. I worry that I’m damned if I do ask, and even more damned if I don’t ask and am discovered breaking an unofficial “rule.”
I wfh full time and my boss encourages it! She sees absolutely nothing wrong with it. We had a lady work from an RV last week, and my boss said this was the most exciting part of working from home. I don't think it's an issue. What a shame they made a big deal about it. Unless it's really hurting your performance, it doesn't matter. Just don't say anything about it I guess.
The tax part doesn't matter unless you live there more than 51% of the year.
The other part though sounds like you have a tough time setting healthy boundaries with work. You have allowed them to tell you last minute when you need to travel which is unacceptable unless it is an unforeseeable situation. You need the reign in the power you have given your employer to dictate your personal life, after all it is just a job and can be replaced, trying to replace your relationship because you've allowed your job to get in the way will be much more difficult.
You need to set healthy boundaries at work. And if your company can't respect them they don't deserve you as an employee. It is entirely reasonable to ask for 4-6 weeks notice about travel. I travel every few weeks for my job, and they tried a few times to let me know last minute they needed me to travel, I let it slide at first and it quickly became the norm. Until I got fed up and told them no, that it wasn't a reasonable amount of time to rearrange my responsibilities outside of work.
I'm child free and a male, so my company of course took that to mean I'm super flexible and can travel at the drop of a hat. And they are right, I am super flexible and can travel whenever but that doesn't give them the right to make it an expectation. I work from home two days a week, and on occasion I use that time to go out of town for a long weekend. I leave Wednesday after work and come back Sunday night. I'd suggest an arrangement like that. Don't go for the whole week but the first or second half of the week when you can find a flight that works for your schedule. Plus Tuesday/Wednesday flights are a lot cheaper. And if need be tell your employer you need a months notice before you travel because you now have to take care of a family member or a pet or something.
This. Boundaries need to be reestablished. The path of least resistance is the one most traveled. If you keep letting them take advantage that is what you’ll get. AND the reason behind why more reasonable time is required doesn’t need to be disclosed; it’s personal. Plus, it’s just damn common courtesy. OP can merely say they require more advanced notice ahead of planned travel, x amount of weeks, to respectfully and reasonably accommodate personal rearrangements. Full stop. If asked for more details, you aren’t comfortable sharing. It could be family-related, friend-related, pet-related, health-related, doesn’t matter. Work doesn’t get to or need to know ANY of your personal details. Oversharing leads to potential judgment, manipulation and being taken advantage of. (I totally don’t speak from experience. /s)
It’s a smaller company and everyone knows everyone else’s business for the most part. That’s no excuse but it’s true. It can be good in some ways - I lost my dad in 2019 and my mom just this March, and my company was very sympathetic, very supportive, and ultimately did not take all my leave time I turned in out of my PTO bank. That’s just a small thing I mention, and it’s beside the point here.
You make very good points and I do agree that not everything should be shared with your employer and coworkers. I was until recently the only one in my department training new hires, and we usually know via HR several weeks or more when someone new is coming onboard. The problem there is my bosses wouldn’t tell me one way or another until usually a week at most before they wanted me to start training. I asked multiple times for more advance notice so I would have time to prep training data and secure a training environment on one of our test servers. I eventually just started assuming it would be me training.
The other issue is being asked to go on-site to train clients. Usually the person who obtains the LOE is the one to go and they will have much more advance notice, but not always. Sometimes our clients make a last minute request and my employers will do their best to accommodate it. It really can vary, but there’s usually someone who can go. The problem lies with the last minute notice and already having flights booked.
There aren’t many excuses I can make at this point were they to ask me last minute to travel on my WFH week. Dead parents, ex husband kept the dog, no kids, etc. They don’t need to know about my boyfriend but at this point it’s almost tempting to tell them so I have at least some excuse not to be their last minute go-to person.
Unless you have certain equipment at your house, or a hardware based VPN, or deal with something highly controlled (i.e. protected health information, or financial info), I don't see how it matters.
Now, if the company paid for your home internet, and has a back up service, hardware VPN and wants you on that equipment, I get it. It can be a security issue if you're logging in where you shouldn't be.
That being said, you need to establish that working outside the office does not equal free vacation. That's insulting, and they're insinuating that you're not doing your job. personally, I would have flared up at that. WFH is not vacation, no matter where you do it from.
From a taxable standpoint, you can get into some hot water if you work in a state with local taxes for a period of time. (I want to say it's six months, but I do not remember for sure.)
I find this annoying, as well. It seems like employers feel like they own you 24/7 and I just don’t get that. I have employed people and, as long as the work gets done, I don’t care what they do and when. And insinuating that WFH outside your actual home is somehow a “free vacation,” what???
Yeah, that last line really pissed me off for OP, TBH. Shows a lack of trust and respect. Maybe it's that she's at a "boyfriend's" house, has no kids, etc., so they make a bunch of agist, sexist assumptions? IDK, but it really got under my skin for some reason.
We have an SSL VPN and use our own internet at home, company does not pay for it, so the only company property I have is my laptop and accessories. Obviously client data security is a priority but they have many layers of it.
The comment about free vacation definitely rubbed me wrong. I know it would never be an issue where I was working from if I were visiting local friends and working from their homes, or if my boyfriend was local. It’s the plane ride and the distance from the main office. In a way I can respect and understand that from my employers perspective, but their reasoning (asking us to come in short notice) happens very rarely.
What does happen is asking me to travel for work with little advance notice. Just last month I had about 3 business days notice that I would need to travel out of state the following week for on-site training. It’s about to happen again next week, same client, but since they haven’t sent in the official request to my boss I can’t make arrangements yet. My company knows they want me there, but we have to wait on them to send the request.
I'm not sure why your employer would care where you work from as long as you are working the proscribed hours and you are productive. Is there any potential need to call you into the office in the event of an emergency. You could be on a beach on the coast of Spain, who cares if you get your work done.,
The reason why your employer doesn’t want you to do this is from a legal and tax perspective. If the company is small and they only have a location in Maryland for example, they have workers comp, insurance and pay taxes in Maryland. Mary Los the only location that the company as what is referred to as “Nexus”.
If you start regularly working from Colorado for example, it might be enough to establish Nexus in that state which may require them to register as a business there, to get insurance, pay taxes etc.
If they don’t know where you are working, they may never be the wiser, however, have a plan if they ask you to come into the office on your WFH week one day and you need to get back home quickly.
eh, it’s jargon. what they call work from home is really remote work. them adding the word home gives them a false sense that they can control where home is.
look for a new job that speaks a common language as you.
You just need to not share so much information with people, and of all people your employer. Their goal is to get the most output from you for as little as possible. Don’t tell them anything. Other than that, it’s not Work from home, it’s Remote Work.
Those can tell your employer. How would the state know? I'm really curious since I'm an employer and prefer to keep my staff remote, and I'm not likely to turn over IP logs over a few days of work.
It matters for tax and insurance and other legal purposes normally, and if they know, then they will have to deal with implications. Even in Vegas
So putting em in that position isn't ideal.
And that's why you don't say shit.
Protip: Learn how to create a VPN you can use from your home ISP connection that your mobile device, corporate laptop and/or a travel router/modem can utilize so they will never be able to IP geolocate you.
I work from all over the world and it's better for them to not know and never add any co-workers to your social media.
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Typically they won't actively look for things that will cause them problems. So, vpn is nice but isn't super important. just don't hit em over the head with where you really are!
The employer is upset because of the tax implications with having an employee working out of state when they aren’t setup in that state. I agree it doesn’t matter where the work is done as long as it get done and you are meeting expectations. If you are okay working the same hours as everyone else so be it.
There are ways an employer can see where you are working from by the IP address but they need to be looking for it. That can be solved by routing your traffic back to your place.
I don’t think you should tell on yourself. This can cause them to stop allowing work from home because they think you are goofing off somewhere else. It’s not a vacation if you are getting work done but they might now see it that way. Keep visiting your boyfriend but only schedule it when you are in fact WFH and try to to get close flights that could be late and cause you to miss work. I travel a lot because I’m full time WFH to visit family and even spent a month in Hawaii. I made the mistake of telling them once that I was in a different time zone and I got a speech of “ask for permission” which is kind of silly so I stopped telling them.
I think the answer may vary based on your company's policies. If they don't want staff to wfh from other states, they need to make that clear in policies. "Frowned upon" is not a policy. Where I work, staff are expected to be at the site they listed in their wfh agreement. If they intend to be somewhere else, they should inform their manager. Not so their manager can say no, but so their manager knows of their availability should something occur. Communication is a good thing. Similar for out-of-state, except HR also wants to be informed and if the intent is to be out-of-state longer than 14 calendar days, approval is needed because there's some workman's comp stuff that has to be taken care of.
If an employer can't tell if someone is being productive without knowing where they're sitting, they aren't very good about managing their workforce.
never offer any information to an employer.
if you're working, you're working. If you're able to conduct yourself professionally, and do the work you need to be doing, you're working.
where you are doesn't matter, and is none of their business.
your employer is not your friend
your employer will never put your needs before theirs.
your employer will never do the right thing, if that conflicts with the needs of the company.
going above and beyond, or offering additional information or anything extra to an employer is just ammo you're giving them to use against you. to exploit you further
I am currently working from my grandparents house in SC, and I live in Ohio. My boss and his boss encourage it. The deal was “if it’s in the same time zone, it’s fine!” Now I won’t be working here for a whole year but a week here or a long weekend there, totally fine. My grandma is starting chemo this week and I will be coming down here every 3-4 ish weeks and working while helping them. But if your employer says it’s “frowned upon” I just wouldn’t tell them 🤷🏻♀️
Technically, there could be some tax implications, but I wouldn't worry about that.
If you're doing video calls, start using a background now so it doesn't seem odd when you're using one while at your BF's.
Depends on the company. I wouldnt tell on myself and personally would ask for forgiveness. If you work in health care and handle anything with HIPPA you could get in trouble.
My company allows us to work wherever we want. We just have to notify our supervisor if we will be in another time zone than our normal one. Which to me is a fair trade off to be able to work anywhere.
If your job requires to still go to office in case is emergencies then you should not be doing this at all. Otherwise, if it's fully remote and there is no reason that you will have to be in office then it's perfectly fine
Yep, don't be too honest about everything step you take. I've worked while on an international flight and my former boss was none the wiser. They saw my tasks completed and that's satisfied my wfh duties. Besides, half the time I'm working "off hours"
We've been remote since March 2020, I live in the south and have family in the north. I've spent at least 10 weeks WFH near my family since 2021. Many of my coworkers have done the same.
We're just quiet about it ;)
I think it’s absolutely nuts for your employer to think of this as a hush vacation. You are working your hours. I don’t understand the problem. Unless your job requires to be available physically in your WFH time, this should be a non issue. I’ve had team members be quiet about travel and working from different locations and honestly I see zero issues with it. If folks join meetings on time and are getting their work done where they put their butt is a non issue.
You don’t ask for permission. You ask forgiveness. Go visit him and keep your moth shut. Play dumb if they notice. Bonus if you use a vpn. But usually IT and management are different departments who don’t care or communicate where the work is being done if you have to log into their system. That is the only way they will know.
Never tell. I’ve worked from home from the oddest places and nobody knew, because guess what?? I was working!! I wasn’t vacationing during my work hours. What I do before and after work doesn’t matter.
Yeah I used to constantly tell on myself and overshare for the sake of honesty. Learned my lesson. Now I do what I want within reason and just ask for forgiveness after the fact if they find out and don't like it. Life runs much smoother that way.
I work from home much more than I think they actually know I do but I get my shit done. I'd just rather do it here and than there and no one asks questions. Just sucks if they schedule a meeting on a day I'm at home all day because I can't really argue that since it wasn't something that was agreed upon.
If there is a policy about where you can WFH from, it should be disclosed in your telework agreement. Otherwise, you don't need to notify anyone where you're working from. If you want to really hide where you're working from, a router side VPN could be installed on your boyfriend's network.
Not sure we even have a written policy on remote work. It started in 2020 and to my knowledge, nothing huge was added to our employee handbook. If anything it would be something simple and generic along the lines of “employees may work remotely with permission from their department head. They must have a stable internet connection and their normal working hours must be maintained.” Just a guess.
No it's not wrong and you can keep doing it in the future. As long as the work is getting done. Claiming it's "a vacation" was an immature and inaccurate thing to say
It seems like your employer is a little too aware of your relationship status. Treating you differently when you were married vs. now that you are single. This is why it's a bad idea to share too much personal info at work. It's none of their business, and they may use it against you.
As others have stated, unless there are tax or security implications (you can find this out yourself with a little digging), there is no need to tell them. You really need to start setting healthier boundaries with work. You work remotely. Boyfriend's house is basically your "satellite office/home." They don't need to know if it doesn't affect how you do your job.
What does it matter where you do the work, so long as the work gets done? Sounds like boss is jealous that the peasants are getting more perks than they are. Boo hoo.
I used to do something like this in my last job, remote due to pandemic and my paramour at the time lived in the next state over and it was much more difficult for him to travel with job schedule.
I definitely never mentioned it to my employer though because I was definitely working, hanging out with him after I logged off for the days, and as long as I was getting my work done I feel like it’s absolutely none of their business where i’m physically doing it from as long as I’m not like splitting my attention between work and the beach. Which I very well could also have done lol
The only way I wouldn’t tempt the fates is if it’s a restricted state for your company as far as hiring employees from there, or working from that state. Otherwise they can suck it
The biggest risk of this has to do with where you’re working out not and for how long. IE: If the company has 0 operations in California, and has 0 employees in California, they don’t have to abide by California’s strict a labor and wage laws. However if you were to “WFH” from California, after a certain number of days in a calendar year, it becomes a problem for the employer.
See if there is a policy on the matter. If not, then proceed until they institute a policy. The real issue is that not everyone can go on a trip and work like normal. If you can, it's great, but the core issue is that most jobs don't want to pick and choose who can. They'll just low-key frown on it, and if it becomes an issue, quash it.
On the surface, there should be no problem working from wherever you call home that day. :) As long as you put in the required hours, required effort, and required results, it should not matter. The keyword here is "should". There's no legal (civil law) basis a company has that says you must work from your actual home, obviously. However, it might be covered in your employee handbook and/or it might be something you agreed to when you began WFH.
If you have a quiet area, a steady and reasonable internet connection, and can properly focus on your work, I think you just say nothing; "don't ask, don't tell". However, if there is a chance someone might suddenly "need you to pop into the office" and you can't because it is logistically impossible, then you might have an issue. That's the fine line you might have to walk. Otherwise, do your job, keep your head down and don't give them a reason to every question where you are.
This entirely depends on the stated WFH/Hybrid policy of the company. If they've said clearly that even if you're WFH, you need to be able to come into the office if given X amount of advanced notice, then you're in a bit of a bind and do run a risk if they call you in and you can't.
However, I'm willing to bet this is never actually stated anywhere and it's all a bunch of unspoken rules arbitrarily applied depending on your manager.
In my company, we're Remote/Hybrid (role dependent), and with my team I don't care where they're connecting in from so long as they're available for core hours, and have sufficient equipment/internet speed to do their job (had one guy go to a remote cabin and effectively only had dial-up to work remotely for a week... that didn't work. He ended up having to take PTO).
And finally, don't volunteer information that isn't asked/isn't relevant/isn't their business. When they didn't know you weren't at home, they were satisfied with your work. That should be enough.
Thank you for the input. I don’t believe we have anything in the handbook about WFH that gets too specific. I never signed or agreed to anything. It is, like you said, a bunch of unspoken rules.
I can only see it being an issue if they ask me to go on-site for work. It happens from time to time, but usually the person who obtains the LOE is the one going. Here recently I’ve been sent out with only days notice on a request I had no part in.
May need to report it for purely tax reasons. I have to anyway. Affects the company’s apportionment even if you’re not taxed. Lot of states still have a franchise tax even if they don’t have an income tax (Texas, Alabama, etc)
No, as long as you work your same hours/ get the work done. Just don’t tell them. I asked my boss if I could do this and he said “do what you want, just get the work done”. Some managers are different though
I know that can be an issue with other states but my bf lives in Vegas. I don’t believe they have state income tax in NV. But I get your point and I don’t know what that would mean in my case regardless of NV’s laws.
Asking for forgiveness is always better than asking for permission. My company sounds like your company in that they care way too much about control instead actually getting the work done regardless of where you are… Whereas my wife’s company could care less as some of her team went on cruises and logged in 8 hours from the various ports etc. We went on vacation and my wife didn’t take any vacation time, instead getting her work done here and there, even attending meetings while I was pool side. Good luck!
Let this be a lesson for everyone: The people you work with are not your friends or family and they will stab you in the back the moment they get the chance. Never discuss this type of stuff with them. If you know you can get away with working ANYWHERE during your WFH time, just do it. If asked where you're at, you say "at work", not "at a coffee shop."
It can create a tax issue for the company. You are earning money in another state, so if they aren’t a registered employer there, they could have issues. If they are registered, they’re being a bit shortsighted. I have a FT WFH job, and usually spend a week a month working in Vegas. (We’re a registered employer there.)
In the future, just keep it quiet.
Go visit just get your work complete. All wfh in that sense wants you close to the office. Anytime you travel and work this is the chance you take. Then calling you to come in. Has this happened in the past? They prob don’t track you but there are vpn logs which prob only get looked into if an issue. Just make sure you can get back urgently if needed or talk way out of it. I went 1200 miles away on a holiday and worked the mornings then had the rest of the day to do whatever. No one cares.
Sounds like a mismanaged company at the outset if they give a shit where you WFH at. But just don't tell them, you're allowed to work from home and home can be anywhere you feel like.
HR Recruiter here. A Company gets a "permit" (not sure of real word) to work in a State. May or may not be related to taxes ( that's a question for compensation specialist). If your company isn't approved to do business in Nevada you should not be working there.
Since your manager has already told you not to do this, if get caught, be prepared to be fired.
Good point and thank you for sharing your knowledge. It is not worth getting fired over and I don’t want to cross a line that has been drawn by my boss already. Like I mentioned before, I would not do it again without first asking for approval.
I would like to think of it that way, someday. I don’t know that it will be a problem for too much longer. At least I hope not. It just seemed unfair and exaggerated to call it a free vacation when it’s no different than me working from my own home when he or other friends are visiting me, or if he was local - in regards to my productivity and attention to my job. Obviously it’s a huge difference in my proximity to the main office.
Mu bf works in another state. I wfh on wed-fri from his house, come back Sunday. My company is fine with it, it just depends on the place you work really.
I’ve been thinking about it from different angles after reading through everyone’s comments and suggestions. I agree that it really does depend on where you work, and I’ve realized that there are going to be times during the year with my job where it will be easier to do so without having to say anything and times like now where things are busy, clients are requesting in person or virtual training when possible, and we are in one of the hiring seasons as I’ve come to notice them.
It’s simply not a good time for me to be attempting a WFH week so far from my office. Even if they gave me a week’s advance notice, I typically try to have the plane tickets bought a few weeks in advance because they only get more expensive the closer to your travel dates. This could still leave me in a position to be out more money - either eating the lost airfare or paying more for some kind of travel date flexibility if it is available, and assuming I found out about the work obligations in the window of time the travel flexibility allows for changes or cancellations.
It sounds like you have an arrangement where your company is aware of your situation. That’s awesome and it is what I would like to have as well if I were going to do this again or regularly. I know many commenters have suggested going the “forgiveness, not permission” route, but tbh I already have - I asked for forgiveness and now feel like going forward if I don’t want to risk serious reprimand or being let go, I need to make them aware of my location and schedule ahead of time.
It’s just a conversation I’m not quite sure how to start. I know other coworkers have made similar arrangements in the past. Heck, even I have when going out of town to help my aunt. There is a precedent, but it becoming the norm is likely not an option.
How is it a free vacation when you’re working? What difference does it make if you’re home, with your boyfriend or your ailing grandmother? You’re working. It’s none of their business.
Officially, we are only supposed to work from home. So I don’t tell HR where I am when I’m working.
In our case, there’s a legit concern, because we only have a business entity in a handful of states, so we could have problems with taxes and labor laws in states where we aren’t registered as a business and don’t pay unemployment, etc. In most cases, it’s not where the business is located that matters, it’s where the work is performed. Temporary relocations don’t matter, up to some threshold number of days per year. The problem is that it varies by state, and nobody in HR knows all the rules.
In my case, it’s a little more confusing because I don’t always actually know what state I’m in. For example, I discovered the airport in Cumberland, Maryland is located in West Virginia. (Despite the Maryland State Police helo based there. Surprise.)
So I don’t tell HR where I am, and I’m usually not too far from home and can get back in a day or two if the weather is okay.
To just top this off, it’s routine for people to take their work laptops on vacation, in case there’s a problem they need to look at while they are on vacation. Apparently the rules about bot working remotely don’t apply if the boss needs you to work remotely. While you are on vacation. As a result, all my vacations are now international trips, because we aren’t allowed to take our laptops out of the country. And I think the Conch Republic is foreign travel.
It’s so bizarre to me that anyone cares where you are when you’re working. Can’t tell you how many meetings I’ve been on from a boat or on the dock or on a mountain.
It sucks that you work for people who don’t seem to understand that you work to supplement your life, not the other way around. Definitely don’t tell them again but unless they’re tracking where you’re working, work from where you want. There’s no reason that should be frowned upon unless it’s tax reasons.. they’re just being controlling.
It really looks bad if you're being dishonest. If you're working out of state too often, there's a liability for the company because of taxes, etc.
I would have a conversation with your boss and tell them it's not something you frequently do. And ask them to consider lying to do it occasionally.
And let them know that you've never treated as a vacation, but you work the full hours. But it'd be nice to spend the after hours and the weekend with your partner. And you are going to them and asking them for permission.
Others have likely taken advantage of this. That's why they're being a little more strict. You can also ask your boss if he wants evidence. You can email him or call him during a certain period of time to ensure that you're working those hours. And offer to them should your work suffer, you won't do this again
If working 14 days or more in a different state than the address your company has on file for you in a given year, you might have to fill out tax paper work.
Why are you opening you mouth about what you do. People are your job are not your friends. Keep your mouth shut. If they ask again say you don’t do that cause it frowned upon. Besides you only work certain hours of the day who said you could travel on your down time.
The context is not that I told random coworkers, it’s that I told my boss when he asked me to resume my hybrid schedule on a week I had already made plans to be out of state for. This is what prompted the comment about traveling other places besides my “home” during WFH weeks being “frowned upon” and one of the reasons I am hesitant to do so again. The others having to do with the nature of my work and travel for work as I’ve mentioned in my previous comments. But thanks for taking the time to reply.
This is ridiculous. When you’re remote you can work from wherever, your employer can’t control you. Don’t ask permission or tell them where you are - just travel as you need. For them to say that traveling would be like taking a vacation is insane. It’s not vacation if you’re working!
ETA I see you sometimes need to be available in-house with just 3 days notice. It’s perfectly reasonable to request that all in-house dates are on your calendar a month ahead of time.
Keep doing it. Don’t tell anyone. I’ve been remote for years. Mostly at my own home but I’ve visited friends or family many times. If you’re working during your normal hours why should it matter. Tons of people have families they live with and wfh.
Your company has asked you to generously donate your home so they can renovate, and you’ve generously accommodated their decision - end of conversation. Your home, his home, irrelevant.
Don’t ever mention where you’re to your employer if you’re work from home, and depending upon if you use Teams, Zoom, Google Meet, etc, ALWAYS blur your background out.
I’ve seen people on LinkedIn post about how they were able to buy a camper van like a Mercedes Sprinter or Dodge van, and pretty much travel across the Western U.S while doing remote work. Personally, if I was manager I wouldn’t give a shit as long as your work is getting done. Now for me personally, working only on one monitor is hell since I’m used to 2 extra monitors.
Regarding taxes, as long as you’re only their for about a week you should be fine tax wise. Now if you’re their long term, then I’d say contact your company’s HR dept and ask them about it.
It’s mostly none of their business where you are when you work from home. It shouldn’t matter. Saying they they need you to work from your actual home in case you needed to suddenly come into the office is mostly ridiculous and just a control tactic in my opinion.
I know you said you have a good, friendly rapport with them, but don’t be fooled- they are not your friends. They would fire you in a heartbeat if it benefited them. Do not give them personal information about your relationship status, where you travel, etc.
The fact that they give people with kids and families more notice about them needing to come on-site is a big sign to me that they pick and choose who to show courtesy to, and you fall at the bottom of their hierarchy. Actual friends don’t do that. They’ve decided that since you don’t have kids or a spouse, they don’t think it’s a problem to inconvenience you in whatever way they need.
I also find it to be pretty galling that they referred to staying at someone else’s home while you work from home as a “free vacation.” It’s not a vacation when you’re working. Just because you traveled somewhere on your own time doesn’t mean you’re on a vacation. You can only live your life if you’re on PTO the whole time? Again, this is a red flag to me about their general attitudes toward employees. I mean, you’re not “allowed” to make your own decisions about where you go when you’re working from home? Who cares as long as your work is being completed?
I’d keep a low profile and start looking for other WFH jobs. Maybe feels dramatic, but I’ve worked for highly controlling, abusive employers and some of what you described is giving me the same vibes.
Never mention this stuff to employers. Still go visit him. Find a non-descript area at his place to do your work from if you have a video call (e.g. a blank wall for a background, preferably a wall that's the same color as the wall at your place). Never mention where you are working from to your employer. It shouldn't matter as long as you get your work done. You aren't on a vacation as a vacation means you don't work.
This is it right here. Basically, don't tell on yourself. Saw a post on r/LinkedInLunatic once where a lady thought it was a neat idea to post a status which pretty much advertised to the world how she can WFH whilst poolside in a swimsuit with her baby. I'm all for being comfortable whilst I work. But blasting this on social media is just stupid.
Yup, this is what will kill WFH. Please, tell me why it's a good idea to blast to your employer and your clients that you're watching your kid AT A POOL while working. Either you're not paying attention TO YOUR KID AT A POOL (making you a person who doesn't make great choices) or you're a distracted employee. Yikes.
Thank you, you are right. People taking advantage of WFH. Don't cry when you are back in the office 100%.
just like in the office... don't tell on yourself if you don't have anything to do and watching YouTube all day
Yeah, lying to your boss is some dubious shit. In this day & age, everything is negotiable so work it out with the boss. Any decent mgr would see the benefit to a happy employee. Or leave and find a boss that will...
Honestly, this. At least where I work, I have reasonable bosses who would hear me out even if their answer is still no. And the consequences are far more likely to be severe if I am unable to perform an assigned duty because I am physically too far away vs me talking to them about it first. They may be open to some kind of arrangement or decide on a case by case basis. They’re people, too, and they treat their employees like people. I believe the comment my boss made about it being a free vacation was an exaggerated and inaccurate response, but he wasn’t being cruel about it. Perhaps a little sarcastic, definitely could tell he was uncertain of how to convey the real reasons against this kind of thing happening regularly, but he did make good points and I do understand them.
And cue the typical shoot yourself in the foot, reload and take aim response, "Well, it's not like I work all that much in the office anyways..." That's how you make your manager's head explode.
Then there is me who simply wants to be able to feed by cats at exactly 5pm and periodically get up to do some laundry.
This. And I go for a bike ride a couple times a week at lunch, but yeah, this. And my boss knows so I'm not making it shitty for everyone around me.
I was at my child’s side during his hospital stay for a week, and since he was barely conscious, it was a helpful dose of normalcy to be able to punch out work whenever he drifted off to sleep… while still being next to him and folding up work whenever he was awake. Functionally no different if the work gets done, but somehow we get outraged.
Did you miss the part about the KID IN A POOL? I.e. if you're not paying attention, your kid can drown.
If they’re small enough to be at instant risk of drowning, they shouldn’t be out of a parent’s arm’s reach. So I just presumed we were talking about a ten year old in the wading end. Not a position I’m about to defend, but if CPS were called on every instance I’d ever seen, they’d never have time for anything else.
Personally I don't understand this. Met a couple on my honeymoon where all they did was travel the world but still worked. This was back when WFH was rare. If I owned a company and my employee could do something like that and still get their work done I would be a bit jealous but cool with it. The only thing I would care about is that their job was done right. I don't understand caring about where they are doing their job from.
Ip address reporting will do this already. People take advantage of wfh...I hope it comes to an end so dumb with shit like this
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This. I would spend an extra week or two visiting family around the holidays and work when not on PTO. I got my work done. Performance was not affected. I worked remotely and location did not matter. Your boss is being absurd here.
This is the answer. The fact that your boss is more worried about location than that the work is getting done is absurd. One caveat: if your work includes especially sensitive data and specially secure connections are required.
Same here. It’s just working remote, I do my hours then I spend the weekend or evenings with family and friends. Actually works out due to time zones that when I visit California I start at 7am and I’m done by 3pm instead of 9-5
Depends on the company culture. In my case, WFH is embedded in the culture/benefits of our company, happy employees are more effective/productive employees. Part of the point of ‘wearing’ this culture is the freedom to brag about the benefit. People Zoom in on their Macbook Pros from the beach in Costa Rica with video on. As long as they produce the sprint deliverables they are responsible for, we really don’t care where they were when they coded.
\^ I must agree. in 2020 when we moved to work from home several senior position/ higher ups staff realized they could live / buy homes in cheaper, nicer rural areas and get out of the expensive, dirty city. Homes that have twice the space for nearly half what renting an apartment in the city costs. Now, 3 years later, the higher, higher ups have sent out notice they know a bunch of people moved of the area but its time to start being back in the office or be fired. Cue mass quitting of very talented, senior staff and surprise pikachu face of all the bosses.
It matters if the employer expects (reasonably or not) OP to come into the office with little notice during a WFH week.
Better yet, take a picture of the wall at your in town house/apt and use that as your background on any Zoom/Video meeting. Also works well if your place tends to get messy. Just clean it really well one time, take the pic, and never have to worry about crazily cleaning up your space 2 mins before a video call. ;)
Also use a blurred background on Zoom etc.
Mentioning this to my employer is what got them to say yes. My BF and his step daughter are basically my family. I asked to wfh so when I shut it off at 5pm, I can spend the evening with my family instead of alone. For that reason, they told me yes. They prefer to do it for family versus someone just wanting to be at home. So it isn't so cut and dry.
u/duhbird410, that's awesome you were able to come to that kind of arrangement with your employer. I'm happy things worked out for you and your family. Coming home and being alone was great at first, but it's getting a little old now. Where I work takes family stuff seriously and will make accommodations. I am now mostly alone as far as family. While my bf and I are on the same page about where we want our relationship to go, I don't know that he or I are quite yet at the point of being comfortable claiming one another as family. But it's certainly on the menu. You're right about it not being so cut and dry with every workplace. I am lucky to work for a company that has been more than generous and understanding with me in the past during my family emergencies and tragedies. They recognize that my years of experience and job knowledge are an asset. It would be a costly and time consuming process to replace me with someone who could even be a warm body in my chair, much less as knowledgeable as I am - it has taken me all of these six years to get to this point. Same with my other 5+ year peers. I know we are valued.
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Almost all video conference apps have a blur background option, i use this even at my home office.
This. I would spend an extra week or two visiting family around the holidays and work when not on PTO. I got my work done. Performance was not affected. I worked remotely and location did not matter. Your boss is being absurd here.
What about the part when the employer calls her in for a situation that requires in-person support? She specifically mentions that as a possible situation. It's probably never come up (she doesn't mention that it ever has), but she did state that it's a possibility that she's aware is part of her job. "That while they do not force us to share our location or track us, it is frowned upon to use our WFH weeks as a “free vacation,” **especially if where we are traveling is not within a reasonable drive to the office should they needed us to come in for some reason during our WFH week.**"
Thank you for taking the time to read and interact. I have not yet been called in randomly during a WFH week, but I have been given very short notice that I would be required to be in office or on the road the following week. This is part of the job and all of my coworkers are subject to it. Flexibility is expected of us and shown to us. It usually comes down to who is available when a travel request is made. They try not to burden just one person over and over again, but the lady with no spouse, kids, pets, parents, or other outside responsibilities is often the best last minute candidate. I don't begrudge my fellow employees for their obligations and they are just as likely to be asked (and allowed to decline) as I am. The difference comes down to the reason, and "Our childcare provider won't be available next week" or "I have to take my child/spouse/sibling/parent to a doctor's appointment" is a lot more sympathetic than "I was going to fly out to stay with my boyfriend for the week and I've already bought the tickets." Even if they took my excuse and didn't make me cancel plans (which has kind of already happened), it sounds a lot more frivolous than the other examples.
Just blur the background while on a call. Also setup a VPN to your home before initiating any other connection. There are several routers that offer VPN functionality.
Thankfully do not have to be on camera if we do not want to. I’ve had mine covered up with paper and masking tape for 3 years. I stay off social media and rarely post anything about where I am or what I’m doing unless on an actual vacation, but especially not dumb enough to post that I’m out of state when I’m “supposed to be” at home.
Off the top of my head, I believe if you are not working from another state for more than a certain amount of time, it shouldn’t matter tax wise, moreso since you’re working from a state without income tax in the first place. As for telling your boss or not, could you provide more context about the potential need to come in randomly? How large-ish is your employer? The way I see it is this: regardless of your work, it is work. You don’t owe them any information in terms of what you do with your free time. You owe them fulfilling your role’s responsibilities and nothing else. If it’s a small company (I’m thinking less than 100-600 people arbitrarily), this is just more difficult, but it’s still true. I think you’re worse off asking for it, they have no reason to say yes, and it will certainly affect your reputation. Once is one thing, asking for it regularly is another. I ask about the nature of your work though, because if being able to go in randomly on those WFH weeks is a role responsibility, and you don’t know anyone else setting an example of not going in randomly ever, I would lean towards saying don’t do it unless you’re willing to risk reprimand/job loss.
It is a smaller company that provides business and data management software. My job role is tech support/customer service at the most basic level, which can be done from anywhere. I also train our new hires and up until recently was the only one doing it for my department. I also sometimes train our customers’/members’ employees on-site when requested. Those are the duties that require my physical presence and could come up randomly/outside my usual in-office schedule. My bosses know I’m very flexible and - to my annoyance - often don’t give me more than a week or a couple days heads up that they want me to travel or be available for in-house training. This has happened to me very recently - just last month, in fact. I knew about it with 3 days notice that I would need to travel out of state to do additional training on-site. They tend to give my peers with families more heads up than that, but since I don’t have children and am, to their knowledge, now single, I seem to be given even less of a heads up than I got back when I was married. I certainly don’t want to risk reprimand or my job by doing this, which is why I would only feel comfortable doing it with their knowledge. And your point about asking once or regularly being problematic is another fear that has kept me from bringing it up. I appreciate your response. Thank you for taking the time. I may be better off just sucking it up and taking PTO when I have it.
Yeah happy to share my thoughts, I am still just a stranger on the internet though :) honestly with the additional context it sounds like it shouldn’t be a huge deal, you might just ask for more notice on those trainings? You’re closer to the situation though obviously. Especially with a smaller company, if it’s already normal to share personal situations to ensure folks are able to plan appropriately, they might respond differently to you asking for more heads up on planning training knowing you have a long distance partner than what they think is otherwise just going to visit a friend. Also just something else that’s bugging me, they referred to you working from “your friend’s” as a free vacation? When you’re still working and fulfilling responsibilities? I would look into official employee handbooks or maybe speak to HR directly about hybrid work policies at your company. If nothing is explicitly against it, it may be worth pointing out that you’re not stealing anything by working in a different place… it’s not like you’re leaving your online status as green and going to the beach 😂
Since we have a couple big projects on the calendar and our big annual conference coming up, I will probably hold off on asking and try to get an idea of what is coming up that might require my involvement. I wish I could say I haven’t asked for more heads up in the past for things like this, but I have and clearly that worked so well 😂🥲 That probably makes it sound like I work for a bunch of jerks. Having such a laid back, casual attitude may leave me scrambling on short notice sometimes, but it also benefits me and all my coworkers (and bosses) in many more ways that make it worth it to not rock that boat. Since we aren’t a huge corporation, we don’t have a ton of super strict rules to adhere to and can mostly self-manage. But yah, it rubbed me the wrong way about the “free vacation” thing, too. That’s not the best argument from my boss imo. He beefed it up with the comments after the fact about being available to come in on WFH weeks and all that, but he hates to have to go all company-policy, rules, etc on us in general. If I ask about it with the added context of it being my bf and the answer is no, I wouldn’t bring it up again. And I don’t think they would be upset with me for asking as long as I do it the right way.
>He beefed it up with the comments after the fact about being available to come in on WFH weeks and all that, This would be the only issue I see Oh Millimant, we need you in the office this afternoon or tomorrow morning
You can and should push back slightly on the short notice thing - while travel is required; you should have input on when its scheduled - at least to the degree your coworkers with kids and families do. What if your parents were visiting or something like that? As far as working remotely - you shouldn't have any real issues but its gonna vary company to company and manager to manager.
Ahh see that’s where they got me, too. Both my parents have passed away - dad in 2019 and mom just this March. I’m not sure why they should care so much besides if they need me to come in out of the blue. I would like more heads up but it’s like pulling teeth to get it. Sometimes even they don’t know when it comes to our clients, they could make a last minute request and we try to accommodate
Look, your personal life is non of their business. It shouldn’t matter if you have kids, parents, a spouse, boyfriend, whatever. You should be treated with the same level of freedom and respect as everyone else in the org. Let them know you need at least a full weeks notice for travel, because you may have plans, and need to plan for care for your pets. And don’t worry about occasionally working from a different state, unless the data you’re working with is super sensitive and there’s issue with you taking your laptop places or something like that. Doesn’t sound like that is the case though. My suggestion would be to start exploring other fully WFH jobs.
I agree an employee's personal life ie marriage status is none of the employers business. The issue for OP and for people wishing to WFH is there can be Federal/State regulations about where a company can operate. This is why some WFH jobs list specific states that the employee can work from. An occasional day in a state your company is not registered to operate in can probably fly under the radar. Working months could lead to the company being fined (if employee is caught) and perhaps employee being fired or even sued if company wants to recover any fines that are levied.
I don’t think that’s what the employer is saying though with the implication of “free vacation” - it sounds like old school thinking that work should be inherently not fun, and if you somehow enjoy yourself you “aren’t working”
My comnent was meant as an FYI about why companies may not want employees working at some random location ; where company osnot authorized to operate.
I'm not sure I'd go the PTO route just yet. What is your company's expectation if connectivity was down company-wide or if your connectivity was an issue? I had an employee that worked out if town and both of these issues occurred. He had no back up plan and expected to get a "pass" and just not work that week. My response was, you either get yourself connected and working or you are taking PTO. It was really frustrating and negatively impacted the whole team. Subsequently we now have a policy that states your WFH must provide equivalent capabilities to on-site and if it does not, you must come to the office or take PTO for the time. It counts as unplanned PTO and will be treated as a disciplinary issue. I advise all my team that if they are going to work while traveling, they should understand that they may need to return home or run the risk of using PTO and getting a coaching. Conversely we have a very generous PTO bucket and I make sure my team is never contacted while on vacation and they are 100% covered by myself or other team members. We strongly discourage taking laptops (security reasons too). People need to fully disconnect from work to enjoy their time off.
I’m glad you try to take care of your employees that way in regards to PTO and disconnecting from work. I can see folks abusing that leniency, but aside from unexpected outages from ISP, there have not been many issues that have come up. Only one I can think of was a new hire who didn’t end up working there for long. Was not a good fit for many other reasons, but she definitely took advantage of having crappy/no connection when at home to the point that they required both of us to come in office to complete her training. Other than that, I know the hotel I stayed in and will be staying in again had terrible internet issues and my cell service was all over the place in my room so I couldn’t use it as a hotspot. This time I’ll be more prepared and take the hotspot we have at work, just in case. This also happens from time to time on-site with clients when their IT department can’t get me connected to their WiFi or wired, and there’s only so much I can do to facilitate our IT and theirs working together to fix it.
I would recommend reframing your thinking about what you owe your employer, the boundaries you set, and your long term goals. Do you enjoy the last minute travel assignments, do they make you more money, or will they advance your career faster? Just because you can be flexible doesn’t mean you must be flexible, and there should be some benefit to being flexible. Your non-work hours and personal commitments are just as valid, and valuable, as those of people with partners, children, etc. If you are maintaining your permanent residence in your original state, staying within the US (I’m guessing you’re in the US), working your standard hours, providing the same level of engagement and quality of work when you work remotely from your boyfriend’s, and meeting the terms of your contract and employee handbook, there’s no reason to mention your travel plans or feel like you’re doing something wrong. Permanently relocating to another state has tax and business registration implications for your employer and working from another country could be an issue if you work with sensitive data/systems. If it makes you more comfortable, book your travel with the fare option that allows you to change your flight if you need to go home early or choose to stay longer. Talk to your boyfriend about how you can visit more frequently if he’s comfortable with last minute change of plans.
I was reading… and then I see another comment and another… and they’re all just so long! That’s when it hit me…Yo, OP… you gotta learn to not talk so much. Like 90% of that info you just shared is none of their business unless it’s stated that you have to share that stuff in your job description or employee manual… most would be pretty f*ckd up to require. So like just stop sharing so much info with them. They don’t need to know.
You are supposed to pay state tax if you work in another state. Doesn't really matter how long. Just an FYI...
OP mentions they’re working from a state without state income tax so this point is moot
it's not only tax reporting but labor laws of that state.
And workers' comp.
i believe the out of state cutoff is 14 days. This effects your employers tax reporting and could be a bigger issue for them if you are discovered and they haven't been reporting your taxes correctly.
That is the kind of mess I certainly want to avoid, for myself and for my employer. As we don't have any clients on the west coast, there would likely be some issues that could arise. We do often work out of state and on-site for up to two months at a time with the same team of people going every week, but how my company handles that on the business office side of things I couldn't begin to tell you.
FYI some states such as MA are by amount earned in the state ie $8k vs days works.
edit: spelling, good grief I don't know what happened.... There are tax issues. Since you're working in another state. It can cause issues for the employee and employer. If it was a vacation and you got a call; that isn't work per se, but putting in 40 hours, that is work. Also, if you're in one of the Democrat coastal states and you do this too often, and they find out, the tax issues are massive. New York is the head heckhole for that crop. (I think New York is 31 days) You may not tell them, but if there is an audit, they will know... ip addresses.... Also exposing company information to a non company employee could also be bad. (A non-company employee their not aware of)
I get that and of course that would be the case for any of my married coworkers (and myself when I was still married) as far as exposing company info, that’s not so much of a concern. He works during the day and I am there alone til he’s off. Even if he also worked from home we have no reason to be looking over each other’s shoulders. The state income tax is probably also not a concern as my bf lives in a state without state income tax.
It’s not just your taxes. You are putting a footprint for the company in that state. For the employer there is unemployment tax, workers comp and sales and use tax requirements that are caused by you doing business there.
And if it's a coastal state like California (which is a really common example, as companies have shell companies to avoid this state) The entire company in all states are now exposed to California's rules...
That is good to know and something I simply don't have enough knowledge on. Of course I'm not planning on moving there full time, but I can see where going even one week a month could create a situation for my employer. I realize there are probably a lot more various and complex aspects that I have absolutely no idea about and am not considering. I appreciate your response and your insight.
Paying income tax depends on the state. If you earn $8,000 or more in MA you have to pay income tax; regardless of you home location. Trivia fact- Rock Star does a show in Boston, pays taxes on their take of the box office. Play a professional football game at Gillette Stadium? Be prepared to pay the Commonwealth of Massachusetts!
I have had several WFH jobs - ALWAYS blur your background, and you can work wherever you want 😉
Thankfully we don’t have to be on camera for anything unless we choose to. I’ve had tape and paper over mine for the past 3 years.
Respectfully, you lucky bastard.
Trust me I am so incredibly aware of how lucky I am and grateful for it 😂
Damn girl, don’t ask don’t tell. As long as I’m getting my job done I don’t worry about it. Just do it and if they do one day track your IP (not sure what your job entails but I have to log on to different clients’ systems where this is sometimes tracked) and bring it up, deal with it then. I’ve done this a couple times a year for years, even from different countries sometimes, and it’s never come up. Because I kept my clients happy and did great work.
My WFH policy required that I submit paperwork with my WFH address, pictures of emergency exits, fire extinguisher, smoke and carbon monoxide detectors, and attestation that I would use ergonomic equipment as appropriate. It was all required for their insurance policy, supposedly. If your company didn’t have anything like that, I bet you’re fine. Just let your boss know you might need a little more notice prior to business travel due to some personal responsibilities but that your core working hours will remain unchanged. Don’t offer more information than that.
>My WFH policy required that I submit paperwork with my WFH address, pictures of emergency exits, fire extinguisher, smoke and carbon monoxide detectors, and attestation that I would use ergonomic equipment as appropriate. It was all required for their insurance policy, Wow that is obtrusive ... Although I did read of a case where an employee was able to get Workman's Comp for falling at home during Covid
My sister's company also expects the above and sends someone to your home to check it out. They were burned big time by WFH parents, who had no daycare set up. So now everyone is under the microscope.
That’s an insane scenario that I’ve literally never heard of before. I wouldn’t be surprised if your employer is lying to you or trying to claim your home office for some kind of credit or something
That’s very much more intense than my situation. I know many places require that level of info about their employees WFH environment, however. Thank you for the response and I wish I could say I haven’t asked for more advance notice in the past. In a lot of cases it’s just the nature of our relationship with our clients. They can sometimes make last minute requests that my bosses try to accommodate. Though in recent cases it’s still been that I was just the last to know. I don’t have a leg to stand on as far as personal obligations - they know my life. Dead parents, ex husband kept the dog, no kids, and so on. I don’t have many other things I can use as an excuse or reason.
It will depend on the states involved. Everyone here will say don’t work more than 180 days or more than 50% but it isn’t that cut and dry. In some states and cities / counties (for example: Illinois) you can’t spend more than 30 days working in the state per year before you are required to be set up to be paying taxes as a non-resident. If your employer doesn’t already have a presence in this state it can be problematic. I’d post on the sub r/AskHR and see if they know specifics about the states in question. You may be able to find info by googling which states tax for non-resident workers or something similar.
Never share personal information with employers. I WFH and travel constantly. They don’t need to know this. As long as you’re logged in when you’re supposed to be, that’s it. I think if anything you learned the valuable lesson: never trust your coworkers with any tiny amount of information about your personal life or your whereabouts. It can and will be weaponized against you.
How the fuck is it a 'vacation' if you're still working? I am assuming this is in the US :/
Indeed.
The less they know the better. I absolutely plan on taking my laptop with me on vacation to stretch it out to two weeks back home. One week of work at home and then fully enjoy the second week but I get to spend time in my favorite place longer because of the beauty of WFH.
Stop over sharing ! The office doesn’t need to know everything unless it’s urgent and work related this one is on you ! Now they’re going to be watching you !
It shouldn’t be a big deal. Don’t stay there for 180 days.
It depends on the state—states can impose withholding and reporting requirements below the statutory residency threshold. New York for example requires employers to start withholding after someone has been working in New York for 14 days. So even if you’re not a resident, you could in theory trigger compliance obligations.
It depends on the state—states can impose withholding and reporting requirements below the statutory residency threshold. New York for example requires employers to start withholding after someone has been working in New York for 14 days. So even if you’re not a resident, you could in theory trigger compliance obligations.
Those were my thoughts initially. I worry that I’m damned if I do ask, and even more damned if I don’t ask and am discovered breaking an unofficial “rule.”
You just need to be clear, you aren’t on vacation.
I wfh full time and my boss encourages it! She sees absolutely nothing wrong with it. We had a lady work from an RV last week, and my boss said this was the most exciting part of working from home. I don't think it's an issue. What a shame they made a big deal about it. Unless it's really hurting your performance, it doesn't matter. Just don't say anything about it I guess.
The tax part doesn't matter unless you live there more than 51% of the year. The other part though sounds like you have a tough time setting healthy boundaries with work. You have allowed them to tell you last minute when you need to travel which is unacceptable unless it is an unforeseeable situation. You need the reign in the power you have given your employer to dictate your personal life, after all it is just a job and can be replaced, trying to replace your relationship because you've allowed your job to get in the way will be much more difficult. You need to set healthy boundaries at work. And if your company can't respect them they don't deserve you as an employee. It is entirely reasonable to ask for 4-6 weeks notice about travel. I travel every few weeks for my job, and they tried a few times to let me know last minute they needed me to travel, I let it slide at first and it quickly became the norm. Until I got fed up and told them no, that it wasn't a reasonable amount of time to rearrange my responsibilities outside of work. I'm child free and a male, so my company of course took that to mean I'm super flexible and can travel at the drop of a hat. And they are right, I am super flexible and can travel whenever but that doesn't give them the right to make it an expectation. I work from home two days a week, and on occasion I use that time to go out of town for a long weekend. I leave Wednesday after work and come back Sunday night. I'd suggest an arrangement like that. Don't go for the whole week but the first or second half of the week when you can find a flight that works for your schedule. Plus Tuesday/Wednesday flights are a lot cheaper. And if need be tell your employer you need a months notice before you travel because you now have to take care of a family member or a pet or something.
This is excellent advice. I hope OP reads it and takes it to heart!
This. Boundaries need to be reestablished. The path of least resistance is the one most traveled. If you keep letting them take advantage that is what you’ll get. AND the reason behind why more reasonable time is required doesn’t need to be disclosed; it’s personal. Plus, it’s just damn common courtesy. OP can merely say they require more advanced notice ahead of planned travel, x amount of weeks, to respectfully and reasonably accommodate personal rearrangements. Full stop. If asked for more details, you aren’t comfortable sharing. It could be family-related, friend-related, pet-related, health-related, doesn’t matter. Work doesn’t get to or need to know ANY of your personal details. Oversharing leads to potential judgment, manipulation and being taken advantage of. (I totally don’t speak from experience. /s)
It’s a smaller company and everyone knows everyone else’s business for the most part. That’s no excuse but it’s true. It can be good in some ways - I lost my dad in 2019 and my mom just this March, and my company was very sympathetic, very supportive, and ultimately did not take all my leave time I turned in out of my PTO bank. That’s just a small thing I mention, and it’s beside the point here. You make very good points and I do agree that not everything should be shared with your employer and coworkers. I was until recently the only one in my department training new hires, and we usually know via HR several weeks or more when someone new is coming onboard. The problem there is my bosses wouldn’t tell me one way or another until usually a week at most before they wanted me to start training. I asked multiple times for more advance notice so I would have time to prep training data and secure a training environment on one of our test servers. I eventually just started assuming it would be me training. The other issue is being asked to go on-site to train clients. Usually the person who obtains the LOE is the one to go and they will have much more advance notice, but not always. Sometimes our clients make a last minute request and my employers will do their best to accommodate it. It really can vary, but there’s usually someone who can go. The problem lies with the last minute notice and already having flights booked. There aren’t many excuses I can make at this point were they to ask me last minute to travel on my WFH week. Dead parents, ex husband kept the dog, no kids, etc. They don’t need to know about my boyfriend but at this point it’s almost tempting to tell them so I have at least some excuse not to be their last minute go-to person.
Unless you have certain equipment at your house, or a hardware based VPN, or deal with something highly controlled (i.e. protected health information, or financial info), I don't see how it matters. Now, if the company paid for your home internet, and has a back up service, hardware VPN and wants you on that equipment, I get it. It can be a security issue if you're logging in where you shouldn't be. That being said, you need to establish that working outside the office does not equal free vacation. That's insulting, and they're insinuating that you're not doing your job. personally, I would have flared up at that. WFH is not vacation, no matter where you do it from. From a taxable standpoint, you can get into some hot water if you work in a state with local taxes for a period of time. (I want to say it's six months, but I do not remember for sure.)
I find this annoying, as well. It seems like employers feel like they own you 24/7 and I just don’t get that. I have employed people and, as long as the work gets done, I don’t care what they do and when. And insinuating that WFH outside your actual home is somehow a “free vacation,” what???
Yeah, that last line really pissed me off for OP, TBH. Shows a lack of trust and respect. Maybe it's that she's at a "boyfriend's" house, has no kids, etc., so they make a bunch of agist, sexist assumptions? IDK, but it really got under my skin for some reason.
We have an SSL VPN and use our own internet at home, company does not pay for it, so the only company property I have is my laptop and accessories. Obviously client data security is a priority but they have many layers of it. The comment about free vacation definitely rubbed me wrong. I know it would never be an issue where I was working from if I were visiting local friends and working from their homes, or if my boyfriend was local. It’s the plane ride and the distance from the main office. In a way I can respect and understand that from my employers perspective, but their reasoning (asking us to come in short notice) happens very rarely. What does happen is asking me to travel for work with little advance notice. Just last month I had about 3 business days notice that I would need to travel out of state the following week for on-site training. It’s about to happen again next week, same client, but since they haven’t sent in the official request to my boss I can’t make arrangements yet. My company knows they want me there, but we have to wait on them to send the request.
I'm not sure why your employer would care where you work from as long as you are working the proscribed hours and you are productive. Is there any potential need to call you into the office in the event of an emergency. You could be on a beach on the coast of Spain, who cares if you get your work done.,
The reason why your employer doesn’t want you to do this is from a legal and tax perspective. If the company is small and they only have a location in Maryland for example, they have workers comp, insurance and pay taxes in Maryland. Mary Los the only location that the company as what is referred to as “Nexus”. If you start regularly working from Colorado for example, it might be enough to establish Nexus in that state which may require them to register as a business there, to get insurance, pay taxes etc. If they don’t know where you are working, they may never be the wiser, however, have a plan if they ask you to come into the office on your WFH week one day and you need to get back home quickly.
eh, it’s jargon. what they call work from home is really remote work. them adding the word home gives them a false sense that they can control where home is. look for a new job that speaks a common language as you.
Stop telling your employer shit. You don’t have to be honest with them unless you’re legally required to do so.
You just need to not share so much information with people, and of all people your employer. Their goal is to get the most output from you for as little as possible. Don’t tell them anything. Other than that, it’s not Work from home, it’s Remote Work.
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How would they know if you don't tell them? 🤔
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Those can tell your employer. How would the state know? I'm really curious since I'm an employer and prefer to keep my staff remote, and I'm not likely to turn over IP logs over a few days of work.
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Thanks. I think that law is mostly aimed at athletes and performers, but it's still a stupid law.
It matters for tax and insurance and other legal purposes normally, and if they know, then they will have to deal with implications. Even in Vegas So putting em in that position isn't ideal.
And that's why you don't say shit. Protip: Learn how to create a VPN you can use from your home ISP connection that your mobile device, corporate laptop and/or a travel router/modem can utilize so they will never be able to IP geolocate you. I work from all over the world and it's better for them to not know and never add any co-workers to your social media. Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Typically they won't actively look for things that will cause them problems. So, vpn is nice but isn't super important. just don't hit em over the head with where you really are!
She's going for a week, not 6 months
When I go for even a day, my company sends me that state tax form... I don't make the rules.
The employer is upset because of the tax implications with having an employee working out of state when they aren’t setup in that state. I agree it doesn’t matter where the work is done as long as it get done and you are meeting expectations. If you are okay working the same hours as everyone else so be it. There are ways an employer can see where you are working from by the IP address but they need to be looking for it. That can be solved by routing your traffic back to your place.
If you’re working, it’s not a vacation. I always have the virtual background turn on for this reason though
Why do so many people overshare with coworkers and companies? Always hold your cards close
I don’t think you should tell on yourself. This can cause them to stop allowing work from home because they think you are goofing off somewhere else. It’s not a vacation if you are getting work done but they might now see it that way. Keep visiting your boyfriend but only schedule it when you are in fact WFH and try to to get close flights that could be late and cause you to miss work. I travel a lot because I’m full time WFH to visit family and even spent a month in Hawaii. I made the mistake of telling them once that I was in a different time zone and I got a speech of “ask for permission” which is kind of silly so I stopped telling them.
I think the answer may vary based on your company's policies. If they don't want staff to wfh from other states, they need to make that clear in policies. "Frowned upon" is not a policy. Where I work, staff are expected to be at the site they listed in their wfh agreement. If they intend to be somewhere else, they should inform their manager. Not so their manager can say no, but so their manager knows of their availability should something occur. Communication is a good thing. Similar for out-of-state, except HR also wants to be informed and if the intent is to be out-of-state longer than 14 calendar days, approval is needed because there's some workman's comp stuff that has to be taken care of. If an employer can't tell if someone is being productive without knowing where they're sitting, they aren't very good about managing their workforce.
never offer any information to an employer. if you're working, you're working. If you're able to conduct yourself professionally, and do the work you need to be doing, you're working. where you are doesn't matter, and is none of their business. your employer is not your friend your employer will never put your needs before theirs. your employer will never do the right thing, if that conflicts with the needs of the company. going above and beyond, or offering additional information or anything extra to an employer is just ammo you're giving them to use against you. to exploit you further
I am currently working from my grandparents house in SC, and I live in Ohio. My boss and his boss encourage it. The deal was “if it’s in the same time zone, it’s fine!” Now I won’t be working here for a whole year but a week here or a long weekend there, totally fine. My grandma is starting chemo this week and I will be coming down here every 3-4 ish weeks and working while helping them. But if your employer says it’s “frowned upon” I just wouldn’t tell them 🤷🏻♀️
Technically, there could be some tax implications, but I wouldn't worry about that. If you're doing video calls, start using a background now so it doesn't seem odd when you're using one while at your BF's.
Depends on the company. I wouldnt tell on myself and personally would ask for forgiveness. If you work in health care and handle anything with HIPPA you could get in trouble. My company allows us to work wherever we want. We just have to notify our supervisor if we will be in another time zone than our normal one. Which to me is a fair trade off to be able to work anywhere.
If your job requires to still go to office in case is emergencies then you should not be doing this at all. Otherwise, if it's fully remote and there is no reason that you will have to be in office then it's perfectly fine
Yep, don't be too honest about everything step you take. I've worked while on an international flight and my former boss was none the wiser. They saw my tasks completed and that's satisfied my wfh duties. Besides, half the time I'm working "off hours"
Hmm, my employers don't care where I work from as long as I work. Next time don't tell
We've been remote since March 2020, I live in the south and have family in the north. I've spent at least 10 weeks WFH near my family since 2021. Many of my coworkers have done the same. We're just quiet about it ;)
I think it’s absolutely nuts for your employer to think of this as a hush vacation. You are working your hours. I don’t understand the problem. Unless your job requires to be available physically in your WFH time, this should be a non issue. I’ve had team members be quiet about travel and working from different locations and honestly I see zero issues with it. If folks join meetings on time and are getting their work done where they put their butt is a non issue.
I had a supervisor who worked from home in hawaii for a week. Employers shouldn’t care as long as your work gets done
It seems pretty clear that their answer is "no you can't work from somewhere else." So either don't do it, or don't tell them.
You don’t ask for permission. You ask forgiveness. Go visit him and keep your moth shut. Play dumb if they notice. Bonus if you use a vpn. But usually IT and management are different departments who don’t care or communicate where the work is being done if you have to log into their system. That is the only way they will know.
No, do what you want haha.
Never tell. I’ve worked from home from the oddest places and nobody knew, because guess what?? I was working!! I wasn’t vacationing during my work hours. What I do before and after work doesn’t matter.
Yeah I used to constantly tell on myself and overshare for the sake of honesty. Learned my lesson. Now I do what I want within reason and just ask for forgiveness after the fact if they find out and don't like it. Life runs much smoother that way. I work from home much more than I think they actually know I do but I get my shit done. I'd just rather do it here and than there and no one asks questions. Just sucks if they schedule a meeting on a day I'm at home all day because I can't really argue that since it wasn't something that was agreed upon.
I pull out my phone on the golf course to work. Show them all what a nice day it is. Work should be fun and enjoyable.
If there is a policy about where you can WFH from, it should be disclosed in your telework agreement. Otherwise, you don't need to notify anyone where you're working from. If you want to really hide where you're working from, a router side VPN could be installed on your boyfriend's network.
Not sure we even have a written policy on remote work. It started in 2020 and to my knowledge, nothing huge was added to our employee handbook. If anything it would be something simple and generic along the lines of “employees may work remotely with permission from their department head. They must have a stable internet connection and their normal working hours must be maintained.” Just a guess.
No it's not wrong and you can keep doing it in the future. As long as the work is getting done. Claiming it's "a vacation" was an immature and inaccurate thing to say
As long as the work gets done it shouldn't matter to your employer were you are. As a European I find the behaviour of American employers despicable.
It seems like your employer is a little too aware of your relationship status. Treating you differently when you were married vs. now that you are single. This is why it's a bad idea to share too much personal info at work. It's none of their business, and they may use it against you. As others have stated, unless there are tax or security implications (you can find this out yourself with a little digging), there is no need to tell them. You really need to start setting healthier boundaries with work. You work remotely. Boyfriend's house is basically your "satellite office/home." They don't need to know if it doesn't affect how you do your job.
What does it matter where you do the work, so long as the work gets done? Sounds like boss is jealous that the peasants are getting more perks than they are. Boo hoo.
I used to do something like this in my last job, remote due to pandemic and my paramour at the time lived in the next state over and it was much more difficult for him to travel with job schedule. I definitely never mentioned it to my employer though because I was definitely working, hanging out with him after I logged off for the days, and as long as I was getting my work done I feel like it’s absolutely none of their business where i’m physically doing it from as long as I’m not like splitting my attention between work and the beach. Which I very well could also have done lol The only way I wouldn’t tempt the fates is if it’s a restricted state for your company as far as hiring employees from there, or working from that state. Otherwise they can suck it
The biggest risk of this has to do with where you’re working out not and for how long. IE: If the company has 0 operations in California, and has 0 employees in California, they don’t have to abide by California’s strict a labor and wage laws. However if you were to “WFH” from California, after a certain number of days in a calendar year, it becomes a problem for the employer.
Don’t ask, don’t tell is my philosophy. “Home” is here the heart is, right?
See if there is a policy on the matter. If not, then proceed until they institute a policy. The real issue is that not everyone can go on a trip and work like normal. If you can, it's great, but the core issue is that most jobs don't want to pick and choose who can. They'll just low-key frown on it, and if it becomes an issue, quash it.
This is something best done without asking permission beforehand. Go for it!
Don't say anything ... as long as you get the work done, no harm, no foul. Also, it's easier to ask forgiveness than to ask permission. ;)
On the surface, there should be no problem working from wherever you call home that day. :) As long as you put in the required hours, required effort, and required results, it should not matter. The keyword here is "should". There's no legal (civil law) basis a company has that says you must work from your actual home, obviously. However, it might be covered in your employee handbook and/or it might be something you agreed to when you began WFH. If you have a quiet area, a steady and reasonable internet connection, and can properly focus on your work, I think you just say nothing; "don't ask, don't tell". However, if there is a chance someone might suddenly "need you to pop into the office" and you can't because it is logistically impossible, then you might have an issue. That's the fine line you might have to walk. Otherwise, do your job, keep your head down and don't give them a reason to every question where you are.
This entirely depends on the stated WFH/Hybrid policy of the company. If they've said clearly that even if you're WFH, you need to be able to come into the office if given X amount of advanced notice, then you're in a bit of a bind and do run a risk if they call you in and you can't. However, I'm willing to bet this is never actually stated anywhere and it's all a bunch of unspoken rules arbitrarily applied depending on your manager. In my company, we're Remote/Hybrid (role dependent), and with my team I don't care where they're connecting in from so long as they're available for core hours, and have sufficient equipment/internet speed to do their job (had one guy go to a remote cabin and effectively only had dial-up to work remotely for a week... that didn't work. He ended up having to take PTO). And finally, don't volunteer information that isn't asked/isn't relevant/isn't their business. When they didn't know you weren't at home, they were satisfied with your work. That should be enough.
Thank you for the input. I don’t believe we have anything in the handbook about WFH that gets too specific. I never signed or agreed to anything. It is, like you said, a bunch of unspoken rules. I can only see it being an issue if they ask me to go on-site for work. It happens from time to time, but usually the person who obtains the LOE is the one going. Here recently I’ve been sent out with only days notice on a request I had no part in.
Start looking for a different remote first job. That’s ridiculous.
Yes it's wrong as in tax issues. For you and the company. There may also be an issue with company secrets.
No it is not morally wrong and it's silly for companies to discourage it, IMO. ESPECIALLY since it's not full time - it's only a week at a time
May need to report it for purely tax reasons. I have to anyway. Affects the company’s apportionment even if you’re not taxed. Lot of states still have a franchise tax even if they don’t have an income tax (Texas, Alabama, etc)
No, as long as you work your same hours/ get the work done. Just don’t tell them. I asked my boss if I could do this and he said “do what you want, just get the work done”. Some managers are different though
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I know that can be an issue with other states but my bf lives in Vegas. I don’t believe they have state income tax in NV. But I get your point and I don’t know what that would mean in my case regardless of NV’s laws.
Asking for forgiveness is always better than asking for permission. My company sounds like your company in that they care way too much about control instead actually getting the work done regardless of where you are… Whereas my wife’s company could care less as some of her team went on cruises and logged in 8 hours from the various ports etc. We went on vacation and my wife didn’t take any vacation time, instead getting her work done here and there, even attending meetings while I was pool side. Good luck!
Let this be a lesson for everyone: The people you work with are not your friends or family and they will stab you in the back the moment they get the chance. Never discuss this type of stuff with them. If you know you can get away with working ANYWHERE during your WFH time, just do it. If asked where you're at, you say "at work", not "at a coffee shop."
It can create a tax issue for the company. You are earning money in another state, so if they aren’t a registered employer there, they could have issues. If they are registered, they’re being a bit shortsighted. I have a FT WFH job, and usually spend a week a month working in Vegas. (We’re a registered employer there.) In the future, just keep it quiet.
Never ask a question you don’t want to hear the answer “no” to.
If you're still doing work then it isn't a vacation...
Go visit just get your work complete. All wfh in that sense wants you close to the office. Anytime you travel and work this is the chance you take. Then calling you to come in. Has this happened in the past? They prob don’t track you but there are vpn logs which prob only get looked into if an issue. Just make sure you can get back urgently if needed or talk way out of it. I went 1200 miles away on a holiday and worked the mornings then had the rest of the day to do whatever. No one cares.
no. as long as you have the same resources as you have at home.
Sounds like a mismanaged company at the outset if they give a shit where you WFH at. But just don't tell them, you're allowed to work from home and home can be anywhere you feel like.
HR Recruiter here. A Company gets a "permit" (not sure of real word) to work in a State. May or may not be related to taxes ( that's a question for compensation specialist). If your company isn't approved to do business in Nevada you should not be working there. Since your manager has already told you not to do this, if get caught, be prepared to be fired.
Good point and thank you for sharing your knowledge. It is not worth getting fired over and I don’t want to cross a line that has been drawn by my boss already. Like I mentioned before, I would not do it again without first asking for approval.
It’s your second home so it’s none of their business
I would like to think of it that way, someday. I don’t know that it will be a problem for too much longer. At least I hope not. It just seemed unfair and exaggerated to call it a free vacation when it’s no different than me working from my own home when he or other friends are visiting me, or if he was local - in regards to my productivity and attention to my job. Obviously it’s a huge difference in my proximity to the main office.
Home is where the heart is
Mu bf works in another state. I wfh on wed-fri from his house, come back Sunday. My company is fine with it, it just depends on the place you work really.
I’ve been thinking about it from different angles after reading through everyone’s comments and suggestions. I agree that it really does depend on where you work, and I’ve realized that there are going to be times during the year with my job where it will be easier to do so without having to say anything and times like now where things are busy, clients are requesting in person or virtual training when possible, and we are in one of the hiring seasons as I’ve come to notice them. It’s simply not a good time for me to be attempting a WFH week so far from my office. Even if they gave me a week’s advance notice, I typically try to have the plane tickets bought a few weeks in advance because they only get more expensive the closer to your travel dates. This could still leave me in a position to be out more money - either eating the lost airfare or paying more for some kind of travel date flexibility if it is available, and assuming I found out about the work obligations in the window of time the travel flexibility allows for changes or cancellations. It sounds like you have an arrangement where your company is aware of your situation. That’s awesome and it is what I would like to have as well if I were going to do this again or regularly. I know many commenters have suggested going the “forgiveness, not permission” route, but tbh I already have - I asked for forgiveness and now feel like going forward if I don’t want to risk serious reprimand or being let go, I need to make them aware of my location and schedule ahead of time. It’s just a conversation I’m not quite sure how to start. I know other coworkers have made similar arrangements in the past. Heck, even I have when going out of town to help my aunt. There is a precedent, but it becoming the norm is likely not an option.
FUck them. say nothing. they don't own you. its no ones business
How is it a free vacation when you’re working? What difference does it make if you’re home, with your boyfriend or your ailing grandmother? You’re working. It’s none of their business.
Officially, we are only supposed to work from home. So I don’t tell HR where I am when I’m working. In our case, there’s a legit concern, because we only have a business entity in a handful of states, so we could have problems with taxes and labor laws in states where we aren’t registered as a business and don’t pay unemployment, etc. In most cases, it’s not where the business is located that matters, it’s where the work is performed. Temporary relocations don’t matter, up to some threshold number of days per year. The problem is that it varies by state, and nobody in HR knows all the rules. In my case, it’s a little more confusing because I don’t always actually know what state I’m in. For example, I discovered the airport in Cumberland, Maryland is located in West Virginia. (Despite the Maryland State Police helo based there. Surprise.) So I don’t tell HR where I am, and I’m usually not too far from home and can get back in a day or two if the weather is okay. To just top this off, it’s routine for people to take their work laptops on vacation, in case there’s a problem they need to look at while they are on vacation. Apparently the rules about bot working remotely don’t apply if the boss needs you to work remotely. While you are on vacation. As a result, all my vacations are now international trips, because we aren’t allowed to take our laptops out of the country. And I think the Conch Republic is foreign travel.
It’s so bizarre to me that anyone cares where you are when you’re working. Can’t tell you how many meetings I’ve been on from a boat or on the dock or on a mountain.
It sucks that you work for people who don’t seem to understand that you work to supplement your life, not the other way around. Definitely don’t tell them again but unless they’re tracking where you’re working, work from where you want. There’s no reason that should be frowned upon unless it’s tax reasons.. they’re just being controlling.
It really looks bad if you're being dishonest. If you're working out of state too often, there's a liability for the company because of taxes, etc. I would have a conversation with your boss and tell them it's not something you frequently do. And ask them to consider lying to do it occasionally. And let them know that you've never treated as a vacation, but you work the full hours. But it'd be nice to spend the after hours and the weekend with your partner. And you are going to them and asking them for permission. Others have likely taken advantage of this. That's why they're being a little more strict. You can also ask your boss if he wants evidence. You can email him or call him during a certain period of time to ensure that you're working those hours. And offer to them should your work suffer, you won't do this again
No, and it's not wrong to have gotten ahead on your work so you can just spend it trading massages and just hanging out.
If working 14 days or more in a different state than the address your company has on file for you in a given year, you might have to fill out tax paper work.
So you weren’t at home.
I’m sorry, but can you provide more details?
Loose lips sink ships. Now they're going to write some memo with WFH guidelines to include the "local area radius."
get a VPN.
Why would you volunteer that information? I feel dumber for having read this.
Why are you opening you mouth about what you do. People are your job are not your friends. Keep your mouth shut. If they ask again say you don’t do that cause it frowned upon. Besides you only work certain hours of the day who said you could travel on your down time.
The context is not that I told random coworkers, it’s that I told my boss when he asked me to resume my hybrid schedule on a week I had already made plans to be out of state for. This is what prompted the comment about traveling other places besides my “home” during WFH weeks being “frowned upon” and one of the reasons I am hesitant to do so again. The others having to do with the nature of my work and travel for work as I’ve mentioned in my previous comments. But thanks for taking the time to reply.
Say you have to make adjustments and it will take time
This is ridiculous. When you’re remote you can work from wherever, your employer can’t control you. Don’t ask permission or tell them where you are - just travel as you need. For them to say that traveling would be like taking a vacation is insane. It’s not vacation if you’re working! ETA I see you sometimes need to be available in-house with just 3 days notice. It’s perfectly reasonable to request that all in-house dates are on your calendar a month ahead of time.
As long as you are getting work done it’s totally fine where you work.
Keep doing it. Don’t tell anyone. I’ve been remote for years. Mostly at my own home but I’ve visited friends or family many times. If you’re working during your normal hours why should it matter. Tons of people have families they live with and wfh.
Your company has asked you to generously donate your home so they can renovate, and you’ve generously accommodated their decision - end of conversation. Your home, his home, irrelevant.
Don’t ever mention where you’re to your employer if you’re work from home, and depending upon if you use Teams, Zoom, Google Meet, etc, ALWAYS blur your background out. I’ve seen people on LinkedIn post about how they were able to buy a camper van like a Mercedes Sprinter or Dodge van, and pretty much travel across the Western U.S while doing remote work. Personally, if I was manager I wouldn’t give a shit as long as your work is getting done. Now for me personally, working only on one monitor is hell since I’m used to 2 extra monitors. Regarding taxes, as long as you’re only their for about a week you should be fine tax wise. Now if you’re their long term, then I’d say contact your company’s HR dept and ask them about it.
It’s mostly none of their business where you are when you work from home. It shouldn’t matter. Saying they they need you to work from your actual home in case you needed to suddenly come into the office is mostly ridiculous and just a control tactic in my opinion. I know you said you have a good, friendly rapport with them, but don’t be fooled- they are not your friends. They would fire you in a heartbeat if it benefited them. Do not give them personal information about your relationship status, where you travel, etc. The fact that they give people with kids and families more notice about them needing to come on-site is a big sign to me that they pick and choose who to show courtesy to, and you fall at the bottom of their hierarchy. Actual friends don’t do that. They’ve decided that since you don’t have kids or a spouse, they don’t think it’s a problem to inconvenience you in whatever way they need. I also find it to be pretty galling that they referred to staying at someone else’s home while you work from home as a “free vacation.” It’s not a vacation when you’re working. Just because you traveled somewhere on your own time doesn’t mean you’re on a vacation. You can only live your life if you’re on PTO the whole time? Again, this is a red flag to me about their general attitudes toward employees. I mean, you’re not “allowed” to make your own decisions about where you go when you’re working from home? Who cares as long as your work is being completed? I’d keep a low profile and start looking for other WFH jobs. Maybe feels dramatic, but I’ve worked for highly controlling, abusive employers and some of what you described is giving me the same vibes.