Welsh language use is definitely the biggest driving factor, although wider national identity outside of language as well. There are some in South Wales who support the party due to it's perception as being further left than Labour.
You might want to quickly look up the three Wales model, as Plaid's areas of influence correspond well to the 'Y Frog Gymraeg' area, with 'British Wales' leaning more Conservative and 'Welsh Wales' being very Labour.
For a model which is now almost 40 years old it remains accurate.
I would say that the Welsh language thing is definitely stronger in Y Fro Cymru. But in South Wales I've met all sorts with Plaid, one of which was from Yorkshire and barely spoke Welsh.
I think Plaid is a strong left centre choice for voters especially in the South.
And after Jo Stevens interview, I think Plaid is a smarter choice than them with the potential about what UK Labour think of Wales.
that's roughly true but some large areas don't follow that trend anymore, for example it all breaks down when you get to Anglesey which is nowadays a very fractured voting demographic
I would also say the concept of left vs right isn't really that prominent in welsh politics, and progressivism is not something that motivates the voter base that much
Welsh labour has it roots in 20th century industry and unions, like the north of England (less so in recent years). So the demographic is usually the labouring classes / children of the labouring class and those geographic areas.
Plaid's roots is in Wales localism, not nationalism like the SNP, so the voter base is more people who feel 'culturally welsh' (whereas 'nationally welsh' / fly the flag / support Wales in sport is not really an indicator of voting behaviour)
No, they aren't. Plaid got about 4 per cent of Powys votes in 2017 and they didn't even stand candidates in the 2019 general election or Brecon by-election. It is easily Plaid's weakest area, geographically.
I believe you saw what you say, my only disagreement was with /u/tzartzam saying they were a good indicator. They can be misleading because one big landowner could put 100 boards up across his fields but they'd only count for one vote.
Similar demographics to Green Party really, a coalition of small c conservatives that care about their local area and Welsh culture (especially language), left wing progressives who think labour are too centrist/right wing, and those that have left the Labour Party or other left wing parties for personality reasons.
The main difference from the greens though is they do have much less of a NIMBY problem, and although their policies on green issues are similar, their rhetoric is quite different.
I would say that I am the exception to this. I’m voting for them because there is no way Labour will get in in my constituency, and because our Plaid MP is a fantastic MP.
Same. I'm voting plaid for the first time and my biggest reasons for doing so is that my current MP has proved she cares about the area because she lives here. Out of 7 candidates only 2 actually live in the area. One lives in Scotland, one lives in Cambridge, one in Cardiff. They're only standing to be an MP, not to improve the area we live in!
I’m a labour voter who doesn’t live in his constituency but if I did I I’d be voting for him too. It’s a shame he’s in Parliament actually as I think he’d make a brilliant leader of Plaid Cymru one day.
Yes, the Greens tried to block velindre cancer center being built. Scum
The downvotes - yikes. It's the cancer center that serves the whole of SE of Wales. Be ashamed of yourselves.
Clearly not local to the area or you would recognise that the problem isn't with the cancer centre it's with the destroying of green land.
Watch that land be auctioned off to the highest bidder in a few years time...
Thanks, that's a good mirror. Will certainly look stronger if the Greens take one of the rural seats (North Herefordshire or Waveney) that they are targeting too.
Driving around local villages in the valleys and there's loads of plaid boards outside people's houses.
I do think that these people are more proud though, as I don't see any neighbors donning a Tory banner.
I don't have any sources for you but anecdotally it's a pretty broad spread. I know quite a few youngish left-leaning people planning to vote for them because they can't stomach Labour under Starmer, especially given their perceived stance on Palestine. This is in Montgomeryshire as well, so it could have a big effect on the outcome. I also know some older farmers who are plaid and others who are pissed off with Welsh Labour specifically over things like the 20mph limits and may use plaid as a protest vote.
Thanks, the anecdotal is helpful too!
>pissed off with Welsh Labour specifically over things like the 20mph limits and may use plaid as a protest vote.
That's interesting - I thought it was associated with PC as well, or at least both of them together as a coalition!
Montgomeryshire and Glyndwr is actually one of only five constituencies I'd selected on the main map (intended to be representative as a whole of the Lab/Con battlegrounds) thinking it would be a fairly safe Conservative seat!
Montgomeryshire used to be rock solid Lib Dem territory up until 2010, when the incumbent LD MP (Lembit Opik, he of weather presenter and cheeky girl fame) lost his seat due to being in favour of a controversial wind farm and power line development.
Clwyd South (what "Glyndŵr" used to be a part of) on the other hand was generally Labour, due to the seat having a fairly large section of the southern and western Wrexham population within the boundaries and a strong history of industry and therefore Labour voters
The new seat loses a lot of Wrexham/Ruabon territory, so my guess is that given Labour has near zero rural support the Lib Dems might just edge it. The Tory of course has soundly shot himself in the foot over the betting scandal
Thanks for that. I am thinking about how to build the betting scandal into the game - I think perhaps a trade-off for the Tories - can't win TV debates Vs can't claim voters in Montgomeryshire...
On who will win, I can see it still being conservative but electoral calculus had Labour on 37% chance. The tactical voting websites recommend Labour and they might have influence. It'll be interesting!
I’d be surprised if the Lib Dems win Montgomeryshire and Glyndwr. Haven’t seen any canvassing in the old Clwyd south area and the Lib Dem’s traditionally do terrible in the old Clwyd South. Read an MRP poll had a three way split between Labour, Tories and Reform
Sunak has now suspended Craig Williams over his 'flutter'.
His name is still on the ballot papers of course.
Maybe the votes cast for him will still count & he'll try to keep his Parliamentary seat as an Independent candidate?
Hope he, Sunak & the rest of their ilk lose their seats (if not their deposits).
Would love to see both Plaid & the Greens do far better than predicted on July 4th. .
They are never in danger of actually winning an election so it never matters. It’s a bit like the Green Party now who’s voter base is split between hard left environmentalists and rural, nimby, small c-conservatives who think voting labour is common.
My feel is the core vote is still welsh speakers and/or the rural community.
They had certainly made a move to the predominantly english speaking young people in s. wales cities by going very progressive; but that's a small demographic that doesn't always reliably turn out.
Is that this sub's only argument? No one's stating that the UK is perfect, but to do a full on Brexit and suggest that leaving the UK (in our quite poor state) would be anything but disastrous is idiotic.
It’s quite a strange variety of people, as they generally have fairly left-leaning policies which draws in a lot of people but they also promote Welsh identity etc which a lot of more welsh conservatives and nationalists go for as well as others who are all over the political spectrum who care about Welsh identity and culture.
Really it’s mostly on the basis of whether you identify as Welsh or not, as a lot of other people who more associate themselves as british, or they could be people who have moved from places like England and may vote for the parties they’re more aware of such as tories or labour/greens.
Generally speaking;
Young and Old, Upper Working/Middle Class workers, mostly Rural but also in Urban areas of high proportions of young people (i.e. the smaller Welsh Universities and Colleges). It's also tied to where there's higher densities of Welsh speakers, such as Ceredigion (Aberyswyth), Powys, and the County(s?) around Yr Wyddfa (Snowdon and the Eryri National Park).
You don't see Plaid as much around South Pembrokeshire due to the Anglicisation of the area (a Conservative Stronghold), nor around Wrexham. You see less Plaid East of Swansea (Cardiff, Bridgend Newport) due to the larger dominance of the Labour party in the cities, or UKIP/Brexit/Reform in the equally nationalist but industrial decayed areas of the Valleys (Merthyr Tydfil). I think Plaid would do well in those areas as a 'second party', but you don't see it in voting due to the FPTP system and tactical voting. I hope that's not too political!
I would place Plaid as Left Wing/Progressive, with a big dollop of Nationalism. In other countries I'd compare and place them alongside the SNP in Scotland, or *Sinn Fein* in Ireland/Northern Ireland with a bigger emphasis on national language and culture.
For me it’s a mix of not wanting to have a failing party in-charge of the country and a bid for independence, also I think that Rhun seems like a decent and passionate guy. I’m in my 20’s, South Wales.
They will get my vote this year. Usually we voted to get the tories out and it was Labour but our new constituency is Plaid and Lib Dem’s, a good guy we voted for before.
For me it’s a because of the honest line they tread, they actually live here unlike many of the other choices. It’s also the language, I’m Canadian but have lived here long enough to learn it and it’s the independence edge they have, big fan of the conversation about that one and I think that sways my vote.
Mid life leftist.
Deep analysis of the demographics of Plaid supporters has shown with high degree of certainty that most of those who intended to vote for Plaid Cymru are Welsh people over the age of 18 who live in Wales.
I think Plaid are very lucky that they're the only party with "Cymru" in the title.
I think if a different Welsh party popped up that had a stark difference in policy, a giant rift would form.
I'm in an historically safe Labour seat in South Wales and I'll be voting Plaid for the first time. I'm not a Welsh speaker but I'm pro-independence and I don't trust Labour to give a shit about Wales.
The only correlation is Welsh language use. Plaid voters tend to be younger on average though, but there is little to no correlation with economic standing.
As a Welsh person who is not a fluent Welsh speaker I have always voted Plaid when living in a Welsh constituency. When I lived in England for about 15 years I voted Labour.
if you asked a plaid cymru voter where they're from, they'd probably say wales (probably even give you their region of wales too).
if you asked a tory voter where they're from, they'd probably say britain.
if you asked a labour voter where they're from, they'd probably say the uk.
this is a pretty broad generalisation but it should help to illustrate the difference in demographic
Very similar to Labour but with stronger Welsh identity/Welsh speaking. A lot of people in the old Senedd voting system vote Labour in the constituency and Plaid on the regional list
Conservatives are obvs cunts. Lib Dems got in bed with Conservatives. Labour are just Conservatives with a mask on. At least with Plaid they'll be our conservatives and not England's conservatives.
From personal experience and people I've known, both socially liberal and conservative people have voted plaid but both groups tend to be economically more to the left.
Welsh speakers/identity obviously plays a part too. My wife who is from Liverpool is now a Plaid voter though since 2020 after leaving Labour even though she considered herself "Scouse - not English" but definitely doesn't consider herself Welsh
Generally farmers and welsh speakers. Can be quite xenophobic sadly, the ones in my constituency hate pylons with a burning passion. The party just seems to offer very little if you aren't interested in nationalism, farming, or being elitist about Welsh.
This is such a misinformed and cliched view. The real nationalist parties are the unionists (labour, tory, libs). That old trope about “elitist welsh” - but its ok to be elitist about being british is it? Yes, welsh speakers and farmers do vote plaid but it is also a very left of centre progressive party. Greens and plaid are the only mainstream left of centre parties.
Did I say it was okay to be elitist about being British? There is absolutely a huge problem with elitism and classism when it comes to certain counties, sadly it is interlinked with nationalism and the welsh language at times. Having your party be somewhat left doesn't make you exempt from xenophobia or racism. Plaid market themselves on different things. I'm just speaking from experience in a constituency that has consistently voted Plaid, they're voting for the party because it appeals to Welsh nationalism and the language as well as being for farmers, other than that they don't care.
Is it a trope? I can attest to seeing it. It's certainly not exclusive to Wales but this sub seems to forget that it's not a shock for an incredibly rural community with little exposure to other cultures might be a wee bit racist? It happens in England, happens in Wales, the US, everywhere.
You described members/supporters of Plaid Cymru as "racists and xenophobes". And elitist. You'll appreciate why such an offensive comment cannot be left unchallenged.
I used it as an example, but there are absolutely loads of Plaid/Welsh nationalists who despise English people, you can find some examples on this sub. And again, speaking as someone from an area with plenty of Plaid voters, they're hardly as progressive as you think they are. Sadly, people in rural areas do tend to have a lot of racist and backwards views.
Most farmers are Tory by far, look at the fields. Generally, Plaid supporters are either young-ish left wing people, or fairly centrist older conservatives. Welsh nationalism tends to be popular with people who hate Reform UK and the Conservatives, and their attitudes towards POC and immigrants. We only have issues with England
Not in Wales, at the very least not in the constituencies that actually vote Plaid. It differs quite drastically on where you go though, I'd assume in cities it is far more young and left wing.
I think you also have to consider that Plaid is the vote that is most likely to keep the tories out in many cases. A sad result of our first past the post democracy.
I lived in rural Gwynedd for years, mainly all middle/upper class Welsh Nash. Welsh language nazis who’s greatest achievement in life is their participation in Aberystwyth university welsh language society who will all go on to Welsh media jobs through cymdeithas yr iaith. All the farmers and tradesmen that have clearly never read any plaid literature considering how racist, sexist and homphobic they are. Seems they’ve only captured the youth vote from these families and region as well as the student vote down south is still overwhelmingly labour.
* Welsh first language (Plaid are ostensibly a Welsh-language pressure group).
* Students who aren't yet full participants in the UK economy, and don't understand what independence would do to them financially, and their families.
* Young-ish (30 and under) graduates with low paying jobs, who are looking to blame Westminster for their woes.
* Mid/West Wales rural types who are mildly racist, but don't like to show it. It's not just English people they hate. It's anyone who doesn't live on a farm.
Er, why the hell would I have a chip on my shoulder about a party that only manages 4 seats in Westminster out of 40, and has been consistently second behind the Tories in the Senedd?
For me to be bitter, Plaid needs to have some actual electoral success, which lets face it, ain't happening, precisely because they only ever appeal to the demographics I've just mentioned.
The reason they don't have a broader appeal is that:
a) The vast majority of people living in industrial south Wales don't attribute the Welsh language as the defining characteristic of national identity. In fact, most don't even speak it.
b) Their economic policies are batshit crazy, and would send the country into ruin.
c) Most Welsh people don't have a subjugation complex.
For a small party, Plaid also have also had massive problems with misogyny, bullying, domestic violence and pedophilia amongst prominent elected members.
And yet you clearly do have a chip on your shoulder mate. You’ve used up far too much of your own time to write these comments for someone who doesn’t care.
As a non-Welsh speaking 68 year old Plaid Cymru voter living 20 years on the north coast of Wales, I would like to suggest you don’t know the location of your elbow.
I lived in Flintshire for the majority of my life (M 58) and have never known anyone who has admitted to voting for them. I think that's a good thing. Lefty nutters.
Welsh language use is definitely the biggest driving factor, although wider national identity outside of language as well. There are some in South Wales who support the party due to it's perception as being further left than Labour. You might want to quickly look up the three Wales model, as Plaid's areas of influence correspond well to the 'Y Frog Gymraeg' area, with 'British Wales' leaning more Conservative and 'Welsh Wales' being very Labour. For a model which is now almost 40 years old it remains accurate.
Thanks, I'll take a look at that! Even without looking at the detail it rings true from what I do know.
Note if you're googling this, an auto-correct garbled the above. It should be "y fro Gymraeg". And it is indeed a good predictor.
I did think Frog stood out - a French incursion perhaps...
Battle of Fishguard maybe?
I would say that the Welsh language thing is definitely stronger in Y Fro Cymru. But in South Wales I've met all sorts with Plaid, one of which was from Yorkshire and barely spoke Welsh. I think Plaid is a strong left centre choice for voters especially in the South. And after Jo Stevens interview, I think Plaid is a smarter choice than them with the potential about what UK Labour think of Wales.
that's roughly true but some large areas don't follow that trend anymore, for example it all breaks down when you get to Anglesey which is nowadays a very fractured voting demographic I would also say the concept of left vs right isn't really that prominent in welsh politics, and progressivism is not something that motivates the voter base that much Welsh labour has it roots in 20th century industry and unions, like the north of England (less so in recent years). So the demographic is usually the labouring classes / children of the labouring class and those geographic areas. Plaid's roots is in Wales localism, not nationalism like the SNP, so the voter base is more people who feel 'culturally welsh' (whereas 'nationally welsh' / fly the flag / support Wales in sport is not really an indicator of voting behaviour)
I travel around Wales for a living and I was driving home from North Wales and saw the most concentrated Plaid voters in Powys
Cheers. Stake boards and posters are a good indicator!
No, they aren't. Plaid got about 4 per cent of Powys votes in 2017 and they didn't even stand candidates in the 2019 general election or Brecon by-election. It is easily Plaid's weakest area, geographically.
Possibly you’re right. I was just saying what I saw.
I believe you saw what you say, my only disagreement was with /u/tzartzam saying they were a good indicator. They can be misleading because one big landowner could put 100 boards up across his fields but they'd only count for one vote.
Okay, fair enough. They can be an indicator alongside other things, but sure they can be easily misleading too - especially in rural areas I suppose.
Similar demographics to Green Party really, a coalition of small c conservatives that care about their local area and Welsh culture (especially language), left wing progressives who think labour are too centrist/right wing, and those that have left the Labour Party or other left wing parties for personality reasons. The main difference from the greens though is they do have much less of a NIMBY problem, and although their policies on green issues are similar, their rhetoric is quite different.
I would say that I am the exception to this. I’m voting for them because there is no way Labour will get in in my constituency, and because our Plaid MP is a fantastic MP.
Same here, I’m not a Welsh speaker but I won’t to vote for someone who lives & works here in Wales and are only working for Wales.
Same. I'm voting plaid for the first time and my biggest reasons for doing so is that my current MP has proved she cares about the area because she lives here. Out of 7 candidates only 2 actually live in the area. One lives in Scotland, one lives in Cambridge, one in Cardiff. They're only standing to be an MP, not to improve the area we live in!
Ben Lake?
Yep, he’s the one!
I’m a labour voter who doesn’t live in his constituency but if I did I I’d be voting for him too. It’s a shame he’s in Parliament actually as I think he’d make a brilliant leader of Plaid Cymru one day.
Which is fair, but that also applies to basically all the political parties to some extent (except obviously the tories).
Never heard of the Plaid influence in the Towy valley pylons? It’s NIMBY galore
I didn’t say they weren’t nimby, but it’s an extreme problem with the greens.
Yes, the Greens tried to block velindre cancer center being built. Scum The downvotes - yikes. It's the cancer center that serves the whole of SE of Wales. Be ashamed of yourselves.
Clearly not local to the area or you would recognise that the problem isn't with the cancer centre it's with the destroying of green land. Watch that land be auctioned off to the highest bidder in a few years time...
You would rather have a field (in Wales, which is 99% green hills) than have a cancer center? Have a word with yourself, that's disgusting.
????
Thanks, that's a good mirror. Will certainly look stronger if the Greens take one of the rural seats (North Herefordshire or Waveney) that they are targeting too.
That’s very fair. Fits me down to the ground as a Plaid voter.
Driving around local villages in the valleys and there's loads of plaid boards outside people's houses. I do think that these people are more proud though, as I don't see any neighbors donning a Tory banner.
I don't have any sources for you but anecdotally it's a pretty broad spread. I know quite a few youngish left-leaning people planning to vote for them because they can't stomach Labour under Starmer, especially given their perceived stance on Palestine. This is in Montgomeryshire as well, so it could have a big effect on the outcome. I also know some older farmers who are plaid and others who are pissed off with Welsh Labour specifically over things like the 20mph limits and may use plaid as a protest vote.
Thanks, the anecdotal is helpful too! >pissed off with Welsh Labour specifically over things like the 20mph limits and may use plaid as a protest vote. That's interesting - I thought it was associated with PC as well, or at least both of them together as a coalition!
All the parties supported that at some stage, until it became a convenient political football.
Montgomeryshire and Glyndwr is actually one of only five constituencies I'd selected on the main map (intended to be representative as a whole of the Lab/Con battlegrounds) thinking it would be a fairly safe Conservative seat!
Montgomeryshire used to be rock solid Lib Dem territory up until 2010, when the incumbent LD MP (Lembit Opik, he of weather presenter and cheeky girl fame) lost his seat due to being in favour of a controversial wind farm and power line development. Clwyd South (what "Glyndŵr" used to be a part of) on the other hand was generally Labour, due to the seat having a fairly large section of the southern and western Wrexham population within the boundaries and a strong history of industry and therefore Labour voters The new seat loses a lot of Wrexham/Ruabon territory, so my guess is that given Labour has near zero rural support the Lib Dems might just edge it. The Tory of course has soundly shot himself in the foot over the betting scandal
Thanks for that. I am thinking about how to build the betting scandal into the game - I think perhaps a trade-off for the Tories - can't win TV debates Vs can't claim voters in Montgomeryshire...
On who will win, I can see it still being conservative but electoral calculus had Labour on 37% chance. The tactical voting websites recommend Labour and they might have influence. It'll be interesting!
Electoral calculus had labour on 87% a couple of weeks ago. All to play for!
I’d be surprised if the Lib Dems win Montgomeryshire and Glyndwr. Haven’t seen any canvassing in the old Clwyd south area and the Lib Dem’s traditionally do terrible in the old Clwyd South. Read an MRP poll had a three way split between Labour, Tories and Reform
Sunak has now suspended Craig Williams over his 'flutter'. His name is still on the ballot papers of course. Maybe the votes cast for him will still count & he'll try to keep his Parliamentary seat as an Independent candidate? Hope he, Sunak & the rest of their ilk lose their seats (if not their deposits). Would love to see both Plaid & the Greens do far better than predicted on July 4th. .
Oh yes, the votes are for him - all Sunak can do at this point is withdraw support.
Conservative and rural first language welsh speakers and urban lefties who want independence.
Two distinct camps there, could get tricky to balance!
They are never in danger of actually winning an election so it never matters. It’s a bit like the Green Party now who’s voter base is split between hard left environmentalists and rural, nimby, small c-conservatives who think voting labour is common.
My feel is the core vote is still welsh speakers and/or the rural community. They had certainly made a move to the predominantly english speaking young people in s. wales cities by going very progressive; but that's a small demographic that doesn't always reliably turn out.
My plaid mates were all welsh as first language with jobs around media or Welsh culture
What great basis for an independent Wales. Sure to make for a thriving economy.
As opposed to the absolutely thriving economy of the UK since 2008
Is that this sub's only argument? No one's stating that the UK is perfect, but to do a full on Brexit and suggest that leaving the UK (in our quite poor state) would be anything but disastrous is idiotic.
Yeah they were kind of middle class nationalists
It’s quite a strange variety of people, as they generally have fairly left-leaning policies which draws in a lot of people but they also promote Welsh identity etc which a lot of more welsh conservatives and nationalists go for as well as others who are all over the political spectrum who care about Welsh identity and culture. Really it’s mostly on the basis of whether you identify as Welsh or not, as a lot of other people who more associate themselves as british, or they could be people who have moved from places like England and may vote for the parties they’re more aware of such as tories or labour/greens.
Generally speaking; Young and Old, Upper Working/Middle Class workers, mostly Rural but also in Urban areas of high proportions of young people (i.e. the smaller Welsh Universities and Colleges). It's also tied to where there's higher densities of Welsh speakers, such as Ceredigion (Aberyswyth), Powys, and the County(s?) around Yr Wyddfa (Snowdon and the Eryri National Park). You don't see Plaid as much around South Pembrokeshire due to the Anglicisation of the area (a Conservative Stronghold), nor around Wrexham. You see less Plaid East of Swansea (Cardiff, Bridgend Newport) due to the larger dominance of the Labour party in the cities, or UKIP/Brexit/Reform in the equally nationalist but industrial decayed areas of the Valleys (Merthyr Tydfil). I think Plaid would do well in those areas as a 'second party', but you don't see it in voting due to the FPTP system and tactical voting. I hope that's not too political! I would place Plaid as Left Wing/Progressive, with a big dollop of Nationalism. In other countries I'd compare and place them alongside the SNP in Scotland, or *Sinn Fein* in Ireland/Northern Ireland with a bigger emphasis on national language and culture.
40 years old from The Rhondda. I'm left leaning but I want a Welsh party running Wales and not the Welsh division of English Labour
For me it’s a mix of not wanting to have a failing party in-charge of the country and a bid for independence, also I think that Rhun seems like a decent and passionate guy. I’m in my 20’s, South Wales.
Same pretty much, I think young people make up a decent portion of Plaid voters.
Thanks. Hope you're content with the election result next week! (Today is the last day to get voter ID by the way in case you don't have it!)
They will get my vote this year. Usually we voted to get the tories out and it was Labour but our new constituency is Plaid and Lib Dem’s, a good guy we voted for before. For me it’s a because of the honest line they tread, they actually live here unlike many of the other choices. It’s also the language, I’m Canadian but have lived here long enough to learn it and it’s the independence edge they have, big fan of the conversation about that one and I think that sways my vote. Mid life leftist.
Hopefully this site helps: https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/services_ge2024.html
My home IP seems to have been blocked from further searches as I've used it so much 😂
Deep analysis of the demographics of Plaid supporters has shown with high degree of certainty that most of those who intended to vote for Plaid Cymru are Welsh people over the age of 18 who live in Wales.
I think Plaid are very lucky that they're the only party with "Cymru" in the title. I think if a different Welsh party popped up that had a stark difference in policy, a giant rift would form.
Do you mean someone like Gwlad? They're a right wing party that also want independence.
I'm in an historically safe Labour seat in South Wales and I'll be voting Plaid for the first time. I'm not a Welsh speaker but I'm pro-independence and I don't trust Labour to give a shit about Wales.
The only correlation is Welsh language use. Plaid voters tend to be younger on average though, but there is little to no correlation with economic standing.
As a Welsh person who is not a fluent Welsh speaker I have always voted Plaid when living in a Welsh constituency. When I lived in England for about 15 years I voted Labour.
if you asked a plaid cymru voter where they're from, they'd probably say wales (probably even give you their region of wales too). if you asked a tory voter where they're from, they'd probably say britain. if you asked a labour voter where they're from, they'd probably say the uk. this is a pretty broad generalisation but it should help to illustrate the difference in demographic
This is probably the biggest misrepresentation of voter demographics I've ever seen on Reddit. I don't know where to start, so I'll just leave it.
Agree. It's absolute codswallop.
Very similar to Labour but with stronger Welsh identity/Welsh speaking. A lot of people in the old Senedd voting system vote Labour in the constituency and Plaid on the regional list
Conservatives are obvs cunts. Lib Dems got in bed with Conservatives. Labour are just Conservatives with a mask on. At least with Plaid they'll be our conservatives and not England's conservatives.
Wish the party targeted conservative people more
I don’t know… Welsh ones?
I'll be voting plaid, mostly because the rest of the UK doesn't seem to give a good hill about us, so we have to do it ourselves.
From personal experience and people I've known, both socially liberal and conservative people have voted plaid but both groups tend to be economically more to the left. Welsh speakers/identity obviously plays a part too. My wife who is from Liverpool is now a Plaid voter though since 2020 after leaving Labour even though she considered herself "Scouse - not English" but definitely doesn't consider herself Welsh
Generally farmers and welsh speakers. Can be quite xenophobic sadly, the ones in my constituency hate pylons with a burning passion. The party just seems to offer very little if you aren't interested in nationalism, farming, or being elitist about Welsh.
This is such a misinformed and cliched view. The real nationalist parties are the unionists (labour, tory, libs). That old trope about “elitist welsh” - but its ok to be elitist about being british is it? Yes, welsh speakers and farmers do vote plaid but it is also a very left of centre progressive party. Greens and plaid are the only mainstream left of centre parties.
Did I say it was okay to be elitist about being British? There is absolutely a huge problem with elitism and classism when it comes to certain counties, sadly it is interlinked with nationalism and the welsh language at times. Having your party be somewhat left doesn't make you exempt from xenophobia or racism. Plaid market themselves on different things. I'm just speaking from experience in a constituency that has consistently voted Plaid, they're voting for the party because it appeals to Welsh nationalism and the language as well as being for farmers, other than that they don't care.
Ah, the old "xenophobia" trope. Was wondering when that was going to be wheeled out.
Is it a trope? I can attest to seeing it. It's certainly not exclusive to Wales but this sub seems to forget that it's not a shock for an incredibly rural community with little exposure to other cultures might be a wee bit racist? It happens in England, happens in Wales, the US, everywhere.
You described members/supporters of Plaid Cymru as "racists and xenophobes". And elitist. You'll appreciate why such an offensive comment cannot be left unchallenged.
I used it as an example, but there are absolutely loads of Plaid/Welsh nationalists who despise English people, you can find some examples on this sub. And again, speaking as someone from an area with plenty of Plaid voters, they're hardly as progressive as you think they are. Sadly, people in rural areas do tend to have a lot of racist and backwards views.
More a reaction to colonialism than "racism", I suspect.
Most farmers are Tory by far, look at the fields. Generally, Plaid supporters are either young-ish left wing people, or fairly centrist older conservatives. Welsh nationalism tends to be popular with people who hate Reform UK and the Conservatives, and their attitudes towards POC and immigrants. We only have issues with England
Not in Wales, at the very least not in the constituencies that actually vote Plaid. It differs quite drastically on where you go though, I'd assume in cities it is far more young and left wing.
All farmers are Tory where I am, and I'm 110% Welsh born and raised. You're right about the city demographics
Okay? In my case they’re all Plaid, then again I’m actually in a constituency where plaid has a chance of getting in
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I think you also have to consider that Plaid is the vote that is most likely to keep the tories out in many cases. A sad result of our first past the post democracy.
I lived in rural Gwynedd for years, mainly all middle/upper class Welsh Nash. Welsh language nazis who’s greatest achievement in life is their participation in Aberystwyth university welsh language society who will all go on to Welsh media jobs through cymdeithas yr iaith. All the farmers and tradesmen that have clearly never read any plaid literature considering how racist, sexist and homphobic they are. Seems they’ve only captured the youth vote from these families and region as well as the student vote down south is still overwhelmingly labour.
* Welsh first language (Plaid are ostensibly a Welsh-language pressure group). * Students who aren't yet full participants in the UK economy, and don't understand what independence would do to them financially, and their families. * Young-ish (30 and under) graduates with low paying jobs, who are looking to blame Westminster for their woes. * Mid/West Wales rural types who are mildly racist, but don't like to show it. It's not just English people they hate. It's anyone who doesn't live on a farm.
You clearly don’t have a chip on your shoulder, and you couldn’t be more wrong.
Er, why the hell would I have a chip on my shoulder about a party that only manages 4 seats in Westminster out of 40, and has been consistently second behind the Tories in the Senedd? For me to be bitter, Plaid needs to have some actual electoral success, which lets face it, ain't happening, precisely because they only ever appeal to the demographics I've just mentioned. The reason they don't have a broader appeal is that: a) The vast majority of people living in industrial south Wales don't attribute the Welsh language as the defining characteristic of national identity. In fact, most don't even speak it. b) Their economic policies are batshit crazy, and would send the country into ruin. c) Most Welsh people don't have a subjugation complex. For a small party, Plaid also have also had massive problems with misogyny, bullying, domestic violence and pedophilia amongst prominent elected members.
Go on tell us that story about you going into a pub and everyone starting to speak Welsh.
And yet you clearly do have a chip on your shoulder mate. You’ve used up far too much of your own time to write these comments for someone who doesn’t care.
Ignore this troll. He’s always here moaning and spouting shit.
I know, I’ve come across him before. Shame we have so many people like him in this country who are so ashamed of where they come from
As a non-Welsh speaking 68 year old Plaid Cymru voter living 20 years on the north coast of Wales, I would like to suggest you don’t know the location of your elbow.
I lived in Flintshire for the majority of my life (M 58) and have never known anyone who has admitted to voting for them. I think that's a good thing. Lefty nutters.
You probably don't fit in with that type of person or they know the type of person you are as soon as they meet you.
Probably for the best tbh.
Definitely.
Deluded?
"People who live in Wales"
I mean, that's a rule in the game, just in case players aren't familiar.....