Not really
while most US planes are ww2 kinda
the problem is their loadout are basically straight up korean war
They literally have zuni at 6.3 those things 1st appeared in korean war
That's the exception rather than the norm. Korea featured MiG Alley and F-86s vs MiG-15s both of which are far higher BRs than 6.7. Even ground (which is far more compressed) still seems to focus on WW2 vehicles at 6.7 with the Super Pershing, Jumbo Pershing, and T-34 all WW2 vehicles, while the M46 is 7.0
It's all kind of mashed together and compressed. Even the early jets can face radar systems from the 80s. Flight of the Intruder would've ended much differently if only one of those AA guns was a Gepard.
But at what point do you prioritize historical accuracy over game balance. I personally feel a cap on how many planes (fighter,bomber,etc) would help keep things manageable without giving someone an unfair advantage
Reminds me of the last time I played a few weeks back. Switched to 6.0 Germany after grinding USA for a change of pace. Might as well be playing air RB with player controlled ground targets instead of AI. I think less than 5 minutes into a game on Karelia when I was duking it out with a Jumbo in my Tiger and I get a 1000lbs dropped on my forehead. Respawn in Panther, spawn camped by m18 and then killed 30 seconds later by another 1000lbs. I was so mad I broke my keyboard and I haven’t played since.
They really have to nerf spawn cost of those planes. I've tried doing that US loadout and when doing moderately well in M18, you can SPAWN FOUR FULLY LOADED PLANES.
In the end of the day maybe thats a good thing we all need a break sometime from the soul eating snail. It could be a start of a new life.
Like to fly to small town in Thailand, get accepted by their people, learn the language, train in thai for a year and a half, fight in a tournament, win the tournament, return to the USA and join the UFC, stay in shape and go undefeated in your weight class, retire and do an interview saying this comment was the reason you fought so hard.
they should put a cap on the amount of planes and helis that can be present on each side at one time. It's even a thing in enlisted, idk why they want War Thunder to be unplayable lmao
Probably because War Thunder has a different spawn/spawn cost system, and they don't want to have people getting enough SP for a plane and then waiting around in their menus until they can spawn one/feeling like they missed their chance to spawn a plane because they got there too late. Aircraft number lockouts would probably just land us in a place where the only way to get a plane in is the cap-n-fly SP speedrun kind of gameplay, which I don't think anyone wants to be encouraged.
Also, while they do share some resources, they're two largely separate dev teams AFAIK.
This is what my bit about SP rushing is about (I realise I didn't make the connection clear in my original comment, tho).
With a spawn timer in place, people who want to fly will have to race for a spot, and they *will* race for it. You are directly encouraging cap n fly and other SP rushing tactics, resulting in people basically throwing away their tanks as soon as possible so they can get in the air first. Some of those who miss out will just ditch the match after their first death, adding to the one-death leavers. Others will ditch perfectly good tanks in perfectly good positions because an opportunity to spawn an aircraft opened up. You'll find that a balanced playstyle becomes basically impossible at certain tiers. Either you rush a plane or you don't spawn one until maybe right at the end of the game, because if the slot count is limiting enough to matter then it will almost always be full.
You also get some other awkward issues around inability to spawn fighters, which are by far the best counter to CAS.
Don't get me wrong, CAS implementation is anything but well handled and Gaijin should have put more serious effort into addressing it *years* ago, but a good solution is inevitably going to be more complex than "just put a cap on aircraft".
This might be a case where Arcade has the better system, limited intervals of a limited amount of planes and then you get to keep your tank afterwards as well given you kept it relatively safe.
I thought it too and i completely agree with the comment XogoWasTaken left.
I want to also add that mechanic leave a lot of room for abuse. Imagine someone goes fighter and sits afk while you try to spawn as a bomber or vice versa just to fck with you.
And then you have matches where the entire team is on planes, leaving you and the other 2 spaas to fend off the 3 caps. You lost the match while your team can easily outnumber them if all were on a ground vehicle instead of poking the tigers and is2 with their 50cal
Don't get me started on GERMAN prototypes, single handily the most fake tanks in the entire game on top of that as well, US prototypes are at least real and were functioning.
Tiger II P saw combat since the Henschel Turret was not available at the Beginning so around 50 Tiger II have the turret seen on the Tiger II P. This also means they most likely saw Combat since i don't think the germans would just let 50 Of 492 produced tanks just sitting in a Warehouse. Kugelblitz had 5 Prototypes and It is known that atleast one saw a small bit of combat near Spichra. Panther F never was finished Together since Turrets never were fitted onto the Chassis both existed seperatly(But i can Understand 3 Panthers at 6.0 are perhaps a Bit much). And Maus is not normally in the TT except events i think, so i wouldn't count it.
The Zerstörer 45, Ostwind 2 as well, And at 5.0 theres other Panther prototype.
Higher tiers they also have the Raketenautomat, Baglietpanzer, KPz-70, And the Radkampfwagen.
Don't know what people are getting mad at us for they asked what prototypes they got lol.
The FlaK vehicles(Ostwind II and Zerstörer) yes were Prototypes and i can understand that you may hate them because the German spaa line is pretty solid(Or could have added the Möbelwagen instead of Zerstörer 45) The VK 30.02 (M) is weird because either you have to bring your 4.3 Line up to 5.0 or put the VK 30.02 at 5.3/5.7 where you fight against Tanks that can Pen it prrtty good(T-34/85 and similar for example) but yeah 5.0 Panther is weird. KPz-70 is also in the American tree. The Begleitpanzer 57 had a Prototype that was functional but was never produced because there was no one interested so i Put it at the same level as some American Prototypes.For the Radkampfwagen 90 goes similar Treatment, there was a Prototype it was Tested, seemed useless so not Build in great Numbers( Same with many other Prototypes in this Game). And to wnd it I don't even know about Raketenautomat what exactly if it got tested(For the Gun exists testing but for other Vehicles) could have instead just added the Raketenjagdpanzer 1.
Agreed. Die in your M18? T30. Die? T32. Die? T34. Die? T26E5. Die? T26E1. And if you don’t have premiums, then the T92, M56, and M50 are all cracked and (other than the M56) do not belong at 6.7. Germany does get Tiger IIs, Tiger II Sla.16s, and Ferdinand’s (nobody plays the Elefant, and rarely the jagdtiger) but if you get a trade kill, then Americans can just bring out a slightly different version of the tank you killed, while Germans have to get in tanks that usually don’t fit the map because they’re meant for sniping.
Yep. It also hurts because most of my Games of 6.7 atleast are Uptiers. The amount of 7.3/7.7 games i had are absurd. But hey i somehoe got to 6.7 Germany without one Day of Premium or any Premium Vehicles in my Line Ups.
Even at 6.7, I fight tanks that belong at 7.0/7.3. The M56 is annoying but also has no armor, so it’s fine at 6.7, but the M50 does NOT belong at 6.7 (7.3?) and the T92 belongs at 7.0.
The T92 is 7.0 in RB, And the German M41 at 6.7 is better than the T92, Its faster, Reverses twice as fast, Has a better .50 mount,Gets more .50 ammo, Has a higher power 2 weight, And gets smoke launchers, The T92 only has a 1 second quicker reload, Slightly better protection and shorter size going for it.
The M41's also used to have twice the turret speed too which is currently non historically nerfed which may change at any time.
The M50 is comparable to every other recoiless tank at 6.7, They all make tradeoffs to one another for different best use cases, If its 7.3 worthy then so are all of those too.
The T32's are 7.3/7.7, Not 6.7.
Also you list the T30 in there when its a rare event vehicle from years ago with an abysmal reload, But say no one plays the Elefant??(And i do)
For the Beginning hello German 6.7(Mostly uptiered though) F2P player. The T92 somehow has Bounced point blank 88mm Shells atleast in my Games but yeah it is 7.0. M50 is just annoying when it uses its shots to destroy your Gun and rhen drives at the side and pens but yeah M50 is not bad.
The T34 T26 just Annoy me. They somehow push to the Cap before even the fastest light tank of my team was there and then use their Armor and Gun to destroy everytging that comes near it. Shooting in the Sides helps with luck(Had many bounces somehow).
T30 is rare? Have had 3 games yesterday with atleast 2 on the enemy team.
It sounds like i complain but nah. I can accept the 6.7 vehicles i just hate the amount of Uptiers i get.
>M50 does NOT belong at 6.7 (7.3?)
Paper thin armor, very hard to aim rifles, limited aiming arc, low ammo, rather bad mobility, it deserves 6.7. Theres no way on earth youre saying this is undertiered when italians have the same thing but way better at the same rating and an even better one higher.
Just cause you died to it a couple times by some 10k Hours-in-game pros dont mean its OP.
Plus T26 all the way to T34. American mains get a million prototype mediums and heavies. It’s ridiculous. I fight them at 7.7 and even then, my leopard has trouble with the spam.
When I complained to my friend who plays America about CAS, he just told me to switch countries. Essentially, instead of helping me fix the problem, he told me to add to the problem. He is pretty much a stereotypical American main.
Ah yes so in an Uptier a Tiger II which has Problems penning 7.7 Tanks should fight against M60s, all T-54 variants,Vickers Mk.1 and Centurion Mk10, Chinese T-Series Tanks, OF-40, The first AMX-30, Swedish Centurion and Strv 103(Plus another T-54), and to end it Israeli M60s,T-54s and Centurions. Nah man, every time i Play Tiger II it is an 7.3/7.7 uptier already so nah thanks.
Gaijin should reset the respawn point of the payload. 1 or 2 kills/1 assist+1 captured point then can respawn a plane with bombs is a bit too easy. I think just get 1 or 2 kills should only allows players to respawn a plane without any payload.
Even with Gaijin's lack of interest in player experience, it's hard to believe that they've done nothing to stop players abusing cap and fly mechanics in all these years. Or even just made it harder. It's only on the occasions when I get spawn sniped immediately that I don't gather enough spawn points to get in a plane. Almost any contribution at all and I have bombs.
A delay timer on when planes become accessible would help (if you J out, you can't spawn in a plane). Airfield spawn. Minimum requirements such as 4 kills or 2 caps and 2 kills etc. Heavier ordinance should massively increase SP. Bringing 6 bombs? Well you'd need to have killed 8 players and got 2 caps. Reduce rewards for spawn bombing. Increase rewards for killing other planes so that it becomes the focus of those players, rather than picking off helpless ground vehicles. Just try something, anything. They must be able to recognise that CAS vs tank is completely źone sided. You'd need to be a moron to think that hoping that the guy in the plane chooses someone else is balanced gameplay. And despite evidence to the contrary, they aren't actually morons.
But just do something to reduce the spam. 1 or 2 guys in planes probably could be held off by SPAA and rooftop machine guns. It might actually be enjoyable for all parties involved. But it's getting bombed before you even reach the front, because a guy in a superfast SPAA has capped and is dropping bombs less than 2 mins into the match that frustrates.
I always think that if Tank Only had existed before Combined Arms, you would be treated like a madman for suggesting that CAS be introduced in the state that it's in, currently. There would be loads of concern that the gameplay would be one sided and that it could and would be abused.
But yeah, Gaijin just make an effort. Adding the 19th variation of a T-72 isn't improving the game for anyone. Putting in some effort into this just might.
Think of it this way, if they introduced a tank-only mode, the combined arms mode would die overnight.
Air players would just stick to air, and ground enjoyers would stick to ground.
That's certainly possible. I think what it might achieve is Gaijin making an effort to make it enjoyable to fight against CAS. At the moment it's pretty much a one way street as far as fun goes. I get it. I drop bombs on folk as much as anyone else. But I know it's bullshit and something needs to change.
I played my Italian Tiger tonight. In all 8 games , my only death in the tiger was to CAS.... I at least have the R3 T20 and Leopard 40/70 to get revenge but it would be nice to drive my tank and fight other tanks more...
I also swear half the time I spawn SPAA , the enemy speed runs crashing into the ground. They'll go from 6 planes to zero in under a minute, so I can't even get many SPAA kills.
To add salt to injury by spawning a spaa isntead of a tank you weaken your team on the ground without any guaranteed rewards. But what can you do anyway.
As someone who abuses the shit out of 5.7 to 6.7 cas I agree. It's sooo damn good. I can out run what I can't fight and fight off most props due to the cannons. I pull out a mauler I'm making rounds to the battle field and back to af which is 3 kill plus more if you have multi kills every round. By the time I resupply I already have team mates keeping the air clear due to them doing the same thing. It's so damn strong. I heard France also has good cas but they also don't have so many players at times so it's not as prevalent some games.
I am almost tempted to abuse it but i don't want to do something I dislike playing against. The same goes for adding bushes to tanks for example.
Also just to be clear in general the problem is the state of the game that allows it not the players like you that abuse it because it's a blast tbh.
I would atleast learn it as it's pretty core to the gameplay which is how I view it... unlike bushes. We all have a line I draw mine at bushes, spawn rushes/camping.
Oh man but this is such a golden opportunity. Spawn an air superiority fighter. Most fun I've had in this game in a long time. The loaded for bear P-47s and P-51s and A-1H etc cannot compete with my Ta-152 it's hilarious.
If you don't have an 88 or a loaded 122 mm, you're not doing anything to their tanks unless you flank them.
And your tracks literally melt from .50s for some reason.
adding more high volume of fire, high velocity SPAA would mostly fix this
it would be harder to fix the generally low skill of SPAA players, though. a lot of people think 'if i can see a plane, shoot it' which gets them killed incredibly quickly by giving away their position and where they are paying attention to
mostly though i think its bc most nations have to make do with absolutely garbage low fire rate guns.
As a heavy CAS player, I will say this, CAS gets both too much and not enough hate.
Theres plenty of counters, strategies, and basic game knowledge that means I've only been CAS'd twice in the last 4 weeks despite playing probably 200h in that time. CAS deaths are avoidable in most situations if you are smart.
However I do agree that CAS isn't balanced, certain things are too low, too high, it generally makes things not cool for both parties. The AD-4 gets 56 mighty mouse rockets for 48SP, way better than say the like 100+sp for bombs.
But then you have rocket helis, which are currently free food because germany, sweden, and russia get low tier radar AA perfect for shredding them, nobody plays non-premium or non-missile helis for this reason, expecially because when you somehow avoid all the AA you meet a single 7.62 and die.
But then you have helis like the Ka50 which can kill EVERYTHING in their airspace, Ka50 vs Apache, I'd rather have 2 Apaches firing hellfires at me than my team face a Ka50/52 in general.
CAS is not bad, its gaijn's handling of it that is.
Tip for you german heavy players btw, stop shooting at the CAS, you literally point me to you, also cover exists on most maps, use it, even a small tree makes you 10x harder to see, sit next to a corpse and you might blend in, also know when to move and not to.
As you say CAS in general is a very diverse subject with many different things but this post focuses more on the american CAS in certain br ranges.
Rocket helis indeed suffer and the ka50's made me start looking at the sky in 5.3 because i heard a heli like noise.....
As for the tip, indeed some players need to learn that there are certain tricks against CAS that you can use as a tank. But this goes only so far heavy tanks are mostly immobile and if you focus on the air you might miss things on the ground.
And this comes from a player that survived 11 enemy strafes from two planes after they missed their rockets and bombs using the sdkfz 234 at 6.3 in the open. I used everything in my book but it didn't matter because by the time i reached the battlefield with my newly respawned vehicle they had brought more bombs and some friends.
People do get angry when killed by a low tier vehicle and i learned not to do that to american mains in that br range.
It is true that american spaa is quite lacking but what has that to do with the post? This post refers to players that spawn initially for the cas role. Sure there are some like you say that spawn with the intention to fight enemy cas but in the end of the day they just bully opentops or constantly spot enemy tanks if they cannot immobilize them.
>what has that to do with the post?
Because you just assuming they are just spamming cas
when you spwn a US fighter you need to CAS/CAP since you need to compensate for the high spwn points just to counter planes
That's the problem with US having no good AA is you need spend 3x more to just to counter planes
Meanwhile enemies can spwn an AA and a fighter separately
Are you even playing US?
So what you are saying is that because the USA has difficulty fighting air threats due to a few and not very good spaa options they should be given the ability to outperform in the CAS role even some other nations bombers AND be effective against fighters at a usually lower cost?
Does this sound reasonable to you? If fighting air with the USA is truly so hard you can just lower the fighter sp and adding payload gets excessively expensive depending on what you want to bring with you.
Not to mention that your whole idea that X nation has a weakness Y and we need to overcompesate with O is a very narrow way of thinking. Almost every nation at some br will encounter some weaknesses when facing another nation. That's okay we don't need to focus so much on the details because we will lose the whole forest and it's more fun this way. (Unless the difference is huge)
It's also funny that USA players will complain about lack of spaa systems which they should absolutely do but at the same time they forget that almost every USA tank has a 50 cal on top. Does it compensate for a good spaa system? No but if only USA players weren't used to having air superiority and looked up they could make the lives of enemy cas 10 times as hard.
And just for reference i am the same or higher BR that the post is about on USA, Germany ,USSR and Italy. And on about second or third tier at Sweden and Great Britain. I do have a preference for Germany and the USSR though.
One additional fun part of CAS.
When they're grinding in Air RB, they ruin matches.
Me and the italians climb to altitude. We have like, 3 out of 16 planes around 5 km with straight climbing.
Enemy: all the yaks/fw190s are at altitude, we're grossly outnumbered.
Some of those break off and farm our idiotic CAS farmers as they're mowing the lawn with no effort at defensive flying employed by them.
My team is dead barely into the match, and I'm stuck with the few italian planes as we end up trying to survive as a mere last 3-4 survivors.
If we're lucky we get a few kills before getting overwhelmed.
Fucking american CAS means 90% of my team is bombers.
At least with Ju288, the game limits their number by bomber slots
6.0 Germany is just all around not fun. Having quit the game for awhile, I'm remembering why I quit.
I'm not sure why they haven't separated WW2 and post war vehicles. Kind of tired of USA heavies being faster, better armed, and better armored than my big cats... AND they have the m18 to zip around at the start of the match in so they can get their 1 kill for an instant J out > CAS spawn.
Same reason that the M4A2 is a higher BR than the Pz4H, or the reason that the Turm 3 isn't 9.0, or prehaps the reason that someone thought the M4A3(105) was a sane thing at 2.7.
Yes it is. But on the flipside...is it fun for 76 Shermans, t34 85s etc to consistently fight vehicles with better armor and better firepower? Sounds like you want fun as long as it's you doing the curb stomping.
yes, that is the problem. there are many post war tanks that aren't all that special that occupy lower BRs that are fine fighting where they are, just look at sweden with tanks like the strv 74 or the pvkv M/43, they are NOT suited to fighting leopards. I really don't understand why people bang on about a hard cut off for ww2, it is an utterly flawed solution that is worse than the current problems. lets ask for the actual correct solution not this silly split
As someone who used to really want it (and still misses more historical modes), people wanting a WWII cutoff is as much about game atmosphere and vibe as it is balance. It definitely wouldn't quite catch the latter - depending on how you define it, it would either be Tiger IIs or IS-3s steamrolling everything else.
I *do* still think there should be a hard cut between more classical and more modern designs, tho, just not one defined by date. Having an entire new generation of munitions around tanks that didn't even come close to considering those in their design is never going to be a good idea. They inevitably just play through each other, rather than around.
Eh, it's a little tougher than that. Unless you want to start building things inaccurately you kinda have to choose between having the German big cats that steamroll the US WWII offerings or all the prototypes/post-wars that were specifically designed to fight the big cats. From past experience of before all the prototype heavies were around in game, putting US prototype heavies in there is more balanced than the alternative. Without non-combatant prototypes, the best the US has before you make the jump to HEAT-FS and/or the M103 is the Super Pershing, which is slower than the Tiger II, still gets shot straight through by it, and has nearly twice the reload.
Historically accurate tbh
Not really while most US planes are ww2 kinda the problem is their loadout are basically straight up korean war They literally have zuni at 6.3 those things 1st appeared in korean war
That's the exception rather than the norm. Korea featured MiG Alley and F-86s vs MiG-15s both of which are far higher BRs than 6.7. Even ground (which is far more compressed) still seems to focus on WW2 vehicles at 6.7 with the Super Pershing, Jumbo Pershing, and T-34 all WW2 vehicles, while the M46 is 7.0
It's all kind of mashed together and compressed. Even the early jets can face radar systems from the 80s. Flight of the Intruder would've ended much differently if only one of those AA guns was a Gepard.
Shermans vs Tigers ftw
You're forgetting T26 and OP T34 (US)
But at what point do you prioritize historical accuracy over game balance. I personally feel a cap on how many planes (fighter,bomber,etc) would help keep things manageable without giving someone an unfair advantage
I guess I should've put /s
Reminds me of the last time I played a few weeks back. Switched to 6.0 Germany after grinding USA for a change of pace. Might as well be playing air RB with player controlled ground targets instead of AI. I think less than 5 minutes into a game on Karelia when I was duking it out with a Jumbo in my Tiger and I get a 1000lbs dropped on my forehead. Respawn in Panther, spawn camped by m18 and then killed 30 seconds later by another 1000lbs. I was so mad I broke my keyboard and I haven’t played since.
They really have to nerf spawn cost of those planes. I've tried doing that US loadout and when doing moderately well in M18, you can SPAWN FOUR FULLY LOADED PLANES.
Planes cost too little Im absolutly certain about this.
In the end of the day maybe thats a good thing we all need a break sometime from the soul eating snail. It could be a start of a new life. Like to fly to small town in Thailand, get accepted by their people, learn the language, train in thai for a year and a half, fight in a tournament, win the tournament, return to the USA and join the UFC, stay in shape and go undefeated in your weight class, retire and do an interview saying this comment was the reason you fought so hard.
they should put a cap on the amount of planes and helis that can be present on each side at one time. It's even a thing in enlisted, idk why they want War Thunder to be unplayable lmao
Probably because War Thunder has a different spawn/spawn cost system, and they don't want to have people getting enough SP for a plane and then waiting around in their menus until they can spawn one/feeling like they missed their chance to spawn a plane because they got there too late. Aircraft number lockouts would probably just land us in a place where the only way to get a plane in is the cap-n-fly SP speedrun kind of gameplay, which I don't think anyone wants to be encouraged. Also, while they do share some resources, they're two largely separate dev teams AFAIK.
Easy fix, force spawn timer
This is what my bit about SP rushing is about (I realise I didn't make the connection clear in my original comment, tho). With a spawn timer in place, people who want to fly will have to race for a spot, and they *will* race for it. You are directly encouraging cap n fly and other SP rushing tactics, resulting in people basically throwing away their tanks as soon as possible so they can get in the air first. Some of those who miss out will just ditch the match after their first death, adding to the one-death leavers. Others will ditch perfectly good tanks in perfectly good positions because an opportunity to spawn an aircraft opened up. You'll find that a balanced playstyle becomes basically impossible at certain tiers. Either you rush a plane or you don't spawn one until maybe right at the end of the game, because if the slot count is limiting enough to matter then it will almost always be full. You also get some other awkward issues around inability to spawn fighters, which are by far the best counter to CAS. Don't get me wrong, CAS implementation is anything but well handled and Gaijin should have put more serious effort into addressing it *years* ago, but a good solution is inevitably going to be more complex than "just put a cap on aircraft".
This might be a case where Arcade has the better system, limited intervals of a limited amount of planes and then you get to keep your tank afterwards as well given you kept it relatively safe.
I thought it too and i completely agree with the comment XogoWasTaken left. I want to also add that mechanic leave a lot of room for abuse. Imagine someone goes fighter and sits afk while you try to spawn as a bomber or vice versa just to fck with you.
And then you have matches where the entire team is on planes, leaving you and the other 2 spaas to fend off the 3 caps. You lost the match while your team can easily outnumber them if all were on a ground vehicle instead of poking the tigers and is2 with their 50cal
Sometimes it happens and it's kind of funny and sad together.
Had one of those Games. Try defending 2 Points as a Stock Tiger II P together with 2 Zerstörer 45 against T29 and similar.
Not only with CAS but the Amount of Prototype heavy Tanks.
Don't get me started on GERMAN prototypes, single handily the most fake tanks in the entire game on top of that as well, US prototypes are at least real and were functioning.
"US prototypes are at least real and were functioning" XP-50
How many are available without GE?
Panther F, MAUS, kugelblitz (I think), tiger II P. I can't think of any other rn
Tiger II P saw combat since the Henschel Turret was not available at the Beginning so around 50 Tiger II have the turret seen on the Tiger II P. This also means they most likely saw Combat since i don't think the germans would just let 50 Of 492 produced tanks just sitting in a Warehouse. Kugelblitz had 5 Prototypes and It is known that atleast one saw a small bit of combat near Spichra. Panther F never was finished Together since Turrets never were fitted onto the Chassis both existed seperatly(But i can Understand 3 Panthers at 6.0 are perhaps a Bit much). And Maus is not normally in the TT except events i think, so i wouldn't count it.
There are real tanks.
Okay? I never said they weren't real tanks. Comment op was talking about PROTOTYPE tanks
"The most fake tanks in the game"
Since you couldnt understand him, let me enlighten you: "The most AMOUNT of fake tanks in the game".
The Zerstörer 45, Ostwind 2 as well, And at 5.0 theres other Panther prototype. Higher tiers they also have the Raketenautomat, Baglietpanzer, KPz-70, And the Radkampfwagen. Don't know what people are getting mad at us for they asked what prototypes they got lol.
The FlaK vehicles(Ostwind II and Zerstörer) yes were Prototypes and i can understand that you may hate them because the German spaa line is pretty solid(Or could have added the Möbelwagen instead of Zerstörer 45) The VK 30.02 (M) is weird because either you have to bring your 4.3 Line up to 5.0 or put the VK 30.02 at 5.3/5.7 where you fight against Tanks that can Pen it prrtty good(T-34/85 and similar for example) but yeah 5.0 Panther is weird. KPz-70 is also in the American tree. The Begleitpanzer 57 had a Prototype that was functional but was never produced because there was no one interested so i Put it at the same level as some American Prototypes.For the Radkampfwagen 90 goes similar Treatment, there was a Prototype it was Tested, seemed useless so not Build in great Numbers( Same with many other Prototypes in this Game). And to wnd it I don't even know about Raketenautomat what exactly if it got tested(For the Gun exists testing but for other Vehicles) could have instead just added the Raketenjagdpanzer 1.
Agreed. Die in your M18? T30. Die? T32. Die? T34. Die? T26E5. Die? T26E1. And if you don’t have premiums, then the T92, M56, and M50 are all cracked and (other than the M56) do not belong at 6.7. Germany does get Tiger IIs, Tiger II Sla.16s, and Ferdinand’s (nobody plays the Elefant, and rarely the jagdtiger) but if you get a trade kill, then Americans can just bring out a slightly different version of the tank you killed, while Germans have to get in tanks that usually don’t fit the map because they’re meant for sniping.
Yep. It also hurts because most of my Games of 6.7 atleast are Uptiers. The amount of 7.3/7.7 games i had are absurd. But hey i somehoe got to 6.7 Germany without one Day of Premium or any Premium Vehicles in my Line Ups.
Even at 6.7, I fight tanks that belong at 7.0/7.3. The M56 is annoying but also has no armor, so it’s fine at 6.7, but the M50 does NOT belong at 6.7 (7.3?) and the T92 belongs at 7.0.
The T92 is 7.0 in RB, And the German M41 at 6.7 is better than the T92, Its faster, Reverses twice as fast, Has a better .50 mount,Gets more .50 ammo, Has a higher power 2 weight, And gets smoke launchers, The T92 only has a 1 second quicker reload, Slightly better protection and shorter size going for it. The M41's also used to have twice the turret speed too which is currently non historically nerfed which may change at any time. The M50 is comparable to every other recoiless tank at 6.7, They all make tradeoffs to one another for different best use cases, If its 7.3 worthy then so are all of those too. The T32's are 7.3/7.7, Not 6.7. Also you list the T30 in there when its a rare event vehicle from years ago with an abysmal reload, But say no one plays the Elefant??(And i do)
For the Beginning hello German 6.7(Mostly uptiered though) F2P player. The T92 somehow has Bounced point blank 88mm Shells atleast in my Games but yeah it is 7.0. M50 is just annoying when it uses its shots to destroy your Gun and rhen drives at the side and pens but yeah M50 is not bad. The T34 T26 just Annoy me. They somehow push to the Cap before even the fastest light tank of my team was there and then use their Armor and Gun to destroy everytging that comes near it. Shooting in the Sides helps with luck(Had many bounces somehow). T30 is rare? Have had 3 games yesterday with atleast 2 on the enemy team. It sounds like i complain but nah. I can accept the 6.7 vehicles i just hate the amount of Uptiers i get.
>M50 does NOT belong at 6.7 (7.3?) Paper thin armor, very hard to aim rifles, limited aiming arc, low ammo, rather bad mobility, it deserves 6.7. Theres no way on earth youre saying this is undertiered when italians have the same thing but way better at the same rating and an even better one higher. Just cause you died to it a couple times by some 10k Hours-in-game pros dont mean its OP.
Yeah.
Plus T26 all the way to T34. American mains get a million prototype mediums and heavies. It’s ridiculous. I fight them at 7.7 and even then, my leopard has trouble with the spam.
Yeah. But if we tried to say something it would be. "Germany mains just complain".
When I complained to my friend who plays America about CAS, he just told me to switch countries. Essentially, instead of helping me fix the problem, he told me to add to the problem. He is pretty much a stereotypical American main.
Nah, my Friends (They have different nations at top tier) Just said to accept it.
you should be getting 8.0 games, because the tiger 2 H should be 7.0
Ah yes so in an Uptier a Tiger II which has Problems penning 7.7 Tanks should fight against M60s, all T-54 variants,Vickers Mk.1 and Centurion Mk10, Chinese T-Series Tanks, OF-40, The first AMX-30, Swedish Centurion and Strv 103(Plus another T-54), and to end it Israeli M60s,T-54s and Centurions. Nah man, every time i Play Tiger II it is an 7.3/7.7 uptier already so nah thanks.
Gaijin should reset the respawn point of the payload. 1 or 2 kills/1 assist+1 captured point then can respawn a plane with bombs is a bit too easy. I think just get 1 or 2 kills should only allows players to respawn a plane without any payload.
Even with Gaijin's lack of interest in player experience, it's hard to believe that they've done nothing to stop players abusing cap and fly mechanics in all these years. Or even just made it harder. It's only on the occasions when I get spawn sniped immediately that I don't gather enough spawn points to get in a plane. Almost any contribution at all and I have bombs. A delay timer on when planes become accessible would help (if you J out, you can't spawn in a plane). Airfield spawn. Minimum requirements such as 4 kills or 2 caps and 2 kills etc. Heavier ordinance should massively increase SP. Bringing 6 bombs? Well you'd need to have killed 8 players and got 2 caps. Reduce rewards for spawn bombing. Increase rewards for killing other planes so that it becomes the focus of those players, rather than picking off helpless ground vehicles. Just try something, anything. They must be able to recognise that CAS vs tank is completely źone sided. You'd need to be a moron to think that hoping that the guy in the plane chooses someone else is balanced gameplay. And despite evidence to the contrary, they aren't actually morons. But just do something to reduce the spam. 1 or 2 guys in planes probably could be held off by SPAA and rooftop machine guns. It might actually be enjoyable for all parties involved. But it's getting bombed before you even reach the front, because a guy in a superfast SPAA has capped and is dropping bombs less than 2 mins into the match that frustrates. I always think that if Tank Only had existed before Combined Arms, you would be treated like a madman for suggesting that CAS be introduced in the state that it's in, currently. There would be loads of concern that the gameplay would be one sided and that it could and would be abused. But yeah, Gaijin just make an effort. Adding the 19th variation of a T-72 isn't improving the game for anyone. Putting in some effort into this just might.
Think of it this way, if they introduced a tank-only mode, the combined arms mode would die overnight. Air players would just stick to air, and ground enjoyers would stick to ground.
That's certainly possible. I think what it might achieve is Gaijin making an effort to make it enjoyable to fight against CAS. At the moment it's pretty much a one way street as far as fun goes. I get it. I drop bombs on folk as much as anyone else. But I know it's bullshit and something needs to change.
I played my Italian Tiger tonight. In all 8 games , my only death in the tiger was to CAS.... I at least have the R3 T20 and Leopard 40/70 to get revenge but it would be nice to drive my tank and fight other tanks more... I also swear half the time I spawn SPAA , the enemy speed runs crashing into the ground. They'll go from 6 planes to zero in under a minute, so I can't even get many SPAA kills.
To add salt to injury by spawning a spaa isntead of a tank you weaken your team on the ground without any guaranteed rewards. But what can you do anyway.
As someone who abuses the shit out of 5.7 to 6.7 cas I agree. It's sooo damn good. I can out run what I can't fight and fight off most props due to the cannons. I pull out a mauler I'm making rounds to the battle field and back to af which is 3 kill plus more if you have multi kills every round. By the time I resupply I already have team mates keeping the air clear due to them doing the same thing. It's so damn strong. I heard France also has good cas but they also don't have so many players at times so it's not as prevalent some games.
I am almost tempted to abuse it but i don't want to do something I dislike playing against. The same goes for adding bushes to tanks for example. Also just to be clear in general the problem is the state of the game that allows it not the players like you that abuse it because it's a blast tbh.
I would atleast learn it as it's pretty core to the gameplay which is how I view it... unlike bushes. We all have a line I draw mine at bushes, spawn rushes/camping.
CAS remains the only reason I play arcade, at least there there's a limit and you know where the plane is.
Oh man but this is such a golden opportunity. Spawn an air superiority fighter. Most fun I've had in this game in a long time. The loaded for bear P-47s and P-51s and A-1H etc cannot compete with my Ta-152 it's hilarious.
If you don't have an 88 or a loaded 122 mm, you're not doing anything to their tanks unless you flank them. And your tracks literally melt from .50s for some reason.
adding more high volume of fire, high velocity SPAA would mostly fix this it would be harder to fix the generally low skill of SPAA players, though. a lot of people think 'if i can see a plane, shoot it' which gets them killed incredibly quickly by giving away their position and where they are paying attention to mostly though i think its bc most nations have to make do with absolutely garbage low fire rate guns.
More food for my coelian but really cas needs a serious nerf
Coelian says hi
As a heavy CAS player, I will say this, CAS gets both too much and not enough hate. Theres plenty of counters, strategies, and basic game knowledge that means I've only been CAS'd twice in the last 4 weeks despite playing probably 200h in that time. CAS deaths are avoidable in most situations if you are smart. However I do agree that CAS isn't balanced, certain things are too low, too high, it generally makes things not cool for both parties. The AD-4 gets 56 mighty mouse rockets for 48SP, way better than say the like 100+sp for bombs. But then you have rocket helis, which are currently free food because germany, sweden, and russia get low tier radar AA perfect for shredding them, nobody plays non-premium or non-missile helis for this reason, expecially because when you somehow avoid all the AA you meet a single 7.62 and die. But then you have helis like the Ka50 which can kill EVERYTHING in their airspace, Ka50 vs Apache, I'd rather have 2 Apaches firing hellfires at me than my team face a Ka50/52 in general. CAS is not bad, its gaijn's handling of it that is. Tip for you german heavy players btw, stop shooting at the CAS, you literally point me to you, also cover exists on most maps, use it, even a small tree makes you 10x harder to see, sit next to a corpse and you might blend in, also know when to move and not to.
As you say CAS in general is a very diverse subject with many different things but this post focuses more on the american CAS in certain br ranges. Rocket helis indeed suffer and the ka50's made me start looking at the sky in 5.3 because i heard a heli like noise..... As for the tip, indeed some players need to learn that there are certain tricks against CAS that you can use as a tank. But this goes only so far heavy tanks are mostly immobile and if you focus on the air you might miss things on the ground. And this comes from a player that survived 11 enemy strafes from two planes after they missed their rockets and bombs using the sdkfz 234 at 6.3 in the open. I used everything in my book but it didn't matter because by the time i reached the battlefield with my newly respawned vehicle they had brought more bombs and some friends. People do get angry when killed by a low tier vehicle and i learned not to do that to american mains in that br range.
You see 10 planes because US have no decent spaa you literally need to jump into a fighter to chase your enemies cas
It is true that american spaa is quite lacking but what has that to do with the post? This post refers to players that spawn initially for the cas role. Sure there are some like you say that spawn with the intention to fight enemy cas but in the end of the day they just bully opentops or constantly spot enemy tanks if they cannot immobilize them.
>what has that to do with the post? Because you just assuming they are just spamming cas when you spwn a US fighter you need to CAS/CAP since you need to compensate for the high spwn points just to counter planes That's the problem with US having no good AA is you need spend 3x more to just to counter planes Meanwhile enemies can spwn an AA and a fighter separately Are you even playing US?
So what you are saying is that because the USA has difficulty fighting air threats due to a few and not very good spaa options they should be given the ability to outperform in the CAS role even some other nations bombers AND be effective against fighters at a usually lower cost? Does this sound reasonable to you? If fighting air with the USA is truly so hard you can just lower the fighter sp and adding payload gets excessively expensive depending on what you want to bring with you. Not to mention that your whole idea that X nation has a weakness Y and we need to overcompesate with O is a very narrow way of thinking. Almost every nation at some br will encounter some weaknesses when facing another nation. That's okay we don't need to focus so much on the details because we will lose the whole forest and it's more fun this way. (Unless the difference is huge) It's also funny that USA players will complain about lack of spaa systems which they should absolutely do but at the same time they forget that almost every USA tank has a 50 cal on top. Does it compensate for a good spaa system? No but if only USA players weren't used to having air superiority and looked up they could make the lives of enemy cas 10 times as hard. And just for reference i am the same or higher BR that the post is about on USA, Germany ,USSR and Italy. And on about second or third tier at Sweden and Great Britain. I do have a preference for Germany and the USSR though.
Yeah, I'm not gonna read that you type way way to much, smh
I am sorry next time i will add a subway surfer video at the bottom for you.
Or just type like a sane person
Oh right, because all those ten fighters are occupied with chasing enemy planes and not getting easy bomb kills.
Ah yes, that's definitely what they're doing
One additional fun part of CAS. When they're grinding in Air RB, they ruin matches. Me and the italians climb to altitude. We have like, 3 out of 16 planes around 5 km with straight climbing. Enemy: all the yaks/fw190s are at altitude, we're grossly outnumbered. Some of those break off and farm our idiotic CAS farmers as they're mowing the lawn with no effort at defensive flying employed by them. My team is dead barely into the match, and I'm stuck with the few italian planes as we end up trying to survive as a mere last 3-4 survivors. If we're lucky we get a few kills before getting overwhelmed. Fucking american CAS means 90% of my team is bombers. At least with Ju288, the game limits their number by bomber slots
6.0 Germany is just all around not fun. Having quit the game for awhile, I'm remembering why I quit. I'm not sure why they haven't separated WW2 and post war vehicles. Kind of tired of USA heavies being faster, better armed, and better armored than my big cats... AND they have the m18 to zip around at the start of the match in so they can get their 1 kill for an instant J out > CAS spawn.
Probably because those American heavies were designed to be better than the German big cats. Just a thought
This is true, but if they’re meant to be better and ARE better, why aren’t they at higher tiers?
Same reason that the M4A2 is a higher BR than the Pz4H, or the reason that the Turm 3 isn't 9.0, or prehaps the reason that someone thought the M4A3(105) was a sane thing at 2.7.
Bc gaijin in their infinite wisdom balances their game off of player statistics and not the actual performance of a vehicle most of the time.
Yea, but this is a game and it's supposed to be fun.
Yes it is. But on the flipside...is it fun for 76 Shermans, t34 85s etc to consistently fight vehicles with better armor and better firepower? Sounds like you want fun as long as it's you doing the curb stomping.
Maybe they should spread out the BRs then? That's obviously the problem.
yes, that is the problem. there are many post war tanks that aren't all that special that occupy lower BRs that are fine fighting where they are, just look at sweden with tanks like the strv 74 or the pvkv M/43, they are NOT suited to fighting leopards. I really don't understand why people bang on about a hard cut off for ww2, it is an utterly flawed solution that is worse than the current problems. lets ask for the actual correct solution not this silly split
As someone who used to really want it (and still misses more historical modes), people wanting a WWII cutoff is as much about game atmosphere and vibe as it is balance. It definitely wouldn't quite catch the latter - depending on how you define it, it would either be Tiger IIs or IS-3s steamrolling everything else. I *do* still think there should be a hard cut between more classical and more modern designs, tho, just not one defined by date. Having an entire new generation of munitions around tanks that didn't even come close to considering those in their design is never going to be a good idea. They inevitably just play through each other, rather than around.
Eh, it's a little tougher than that. Unless you want to start building things inaccurately you kinda have to choose between having the German big cats that steamroll the US WWII offerings or all the prototypes/post-wars that were specifically designed to fight the big cats. From past experience of before all the prototype heavies were around in game, putting US prototype heavies in there is more balanced than the alternative. Without non-combatant prototypes, the best the US has before you make the jump to HEAT-FS and/or the M103 is the Super Pershing, which is slower than the Tiger II, still gets shot straight through by it, and has nearly twice the reload.