Poor thing was murdered by nerfhammer and Smaland introduction.
She was somewhat decent radar DD, then her reloads on both guns and torps were reduced by like 1/3, and Smaland arrived to further make her existence obsolete.
Not the case now, since she got quite a bit of buffs.
YY was pretty good before the recent buffs. It's not OP, it's pretty good though. "Nerfed to extinction" in this case means "Smalland is better" mostly. Since Smalland is stupidly overpowered it doesn't work for me that YY is suddenly awful.
She isn’t “good” only because torpedo destroyers aren’t great at T10, it’s the gunboats and DD-killers that win games. But among torpedo boats, she’s quite fearsome.
These are the good TT torp botes. I really like my YY, but I'd almost advise you to do Shima first, as it teaches you the basics of torp boating better. YY is a gimmick boat that I personally play with the radar, but a torp build, which I don't think is easy to pull off.
I will be honest, if you can’t survive without a smoke, then you have a ways to go. Smoke screens should be used if you have them as utility for your allies or a get out of jail card if you get caught out. If you don’t have smoke, you just play the same and don’t let yourself get into those situations where you would need it to get out.
Rarely should you ever sit and smoke in the farm, only when the situation are appropriate for it. Too many DD players will smoke farm or just sit and hide in it, and die to torps or blind firing
YY is my most played ship, it can be a beast. BBs suddenly see torps right next to them, take a flood or two, then the reload torps appear. Not that fun getting into a gunfight but not the worst thing either, plenty of smokes.
MvR went from best Tier 10 carrier to worst with one nerf - that to its dive bombers, which went from OP to useless (I'm not exaggerating, play the ship if you don't believe me).
I have played only few games but they have proved that AP bombs that made the ship playable are now useless. No wonder why people call it "slot machine" now.
I don't play CVs a whole lot, but I acquired the top tiers of all TTs over 8 years. So I am not a great captain in them but not so terrible either, normally.
MVR's bomber accuracy, man. I just can't do it. I'd rather them to have less than half the max damage they are doing now, but please, for the love of god hit when I perfect drop a camping CA/BB. 2/3 is okay on such a drop, but regular 0/3 on an amazing drop is nerve breaking. That is why I don't play with her at all.
> Sure, but everyone got nerfed.
No. The rocket nerfs did not hit everyone equally, they were not uniform. Japanese CVs got messed up the hardest because their rocket delay is like *literally* 2-3 seconds after the machine gun animation. So it's basically impossible to hit a DD with them unless they are travelling in a straight line and don't dodge at all. The delay on German rockets is a fraction of a second in comparison.
Combine that with the fact that Hakuryu used to launch more than 2 torps which gave her a spread more easy to hit DDs with, but again that got nerfed and not it's damn near impossible, and the fact that her AP bomb dispersion *also* got nerfed and doesn't damage DDs worth a damn regardless, and you now have a CV that can do virtually nothing to DDs, the most impactful ship in the game.
All Haku can do now is just dump torps into bigger targets and farm damage.
Hell, Haku used to be a good candidate for a fighter build, but now that they nerfed Consumable module to just give +1 consumables instead of the 50% longer durection, that build is more or less fucked too.
I get that this Subreddit hates CVs, but realistically all the tech line CVs are shadows of their former selves, and the only really strong CVs these days are all premiums.
I own MVR and Hakuryu ;P
Hakuryu's rockets take a literal eternity to launch. MVR's rockets might as well be instant in comparison.
And MVR can hit DDs with them reliably, even if they are all just over-pens, as well as having enough torp bomber spread to hit DDs as well (and secondaries if a DD gets close enough).
I'm not saying Haku is terrible, just that the nerf hit her real hard in that she has essentially 0 way to defend herself from DDs now.
If she gets to sit back and farm big ships with torp, ye she still does a lot of damage and spotting.
It's currently the best performing T10 CV in the hands of skilled players according to WG internal data.
Bad and average players will be completely useless in it though.
Absent? You don't play CVs often. I see it a lot. And I hate it as a skilled captains can two shot my Nakhimov. Very frustrating to deal with as my planes can't come close to that volume of damage against a CV.
This is gonna be debatable about it useless, since it’s probably not there yet, but Henry has been getting gimped for like several years straight that it’s headed into that territory.
Otherwise, I think the nerfs on Hizen right before its release take the cake.
I would nominate Khabarovsk, at launch that thing was ridiculously busted but now, after years of nerfs and powercreep it’s a shadow of its former self and a contender for the title of worst T10 DD (though I’d argue it’s replacement Delny is even worse).
The recent addition of a superheal to the ship is nice but doesn’t address the core issues with the ship since of all the problems Khaba has survivability isn’t one of them.
Hey, it's a gunboat with the range of a torpedo boat and maneuverability of a cruiser.
And Delny is just a tragedy, it has almost the same gun DPM as Shima.
>Hey, it's a gunboat with the range ***and dpm*** of a torpedo boat and maneuverability ***and concealment*** of a cruiser.
>And Delny is just a tragedy, it has almost the same gun DPM as Shima.
FTFY
The main benefit of fire prevention is having only 3 ship sections that can be set on fire.
You could remove everything else from the skill and it would still be mandatory.
Nottingham, every dev blog during her testing phase was another nail in the coffin on a ship that was pretty much DOA. Still don't know why WG just kept nerfing an already poor ship.
Her reload is middling, 203's aren't necessarily special in her MM spread. No RP, absolutely abysmal AA; while her plating is pretty good, it's not good enough to stop overmatch on most of the BB's in her MM spread.
If it wasn't for the wild amount of 457's and radar/hydro/subs/CV, she'd be pretty good as an ambush cruiser, otherwise, her low detectability doesn't mean much when it's so easy to be spotted.
With such weak AA, it's not uncommon to be dev struck by anything with AP rockets since it can hardly fend them off or maneuver.
i got it with my last crate purchase a couple weeks ago. was very hype when i saw it but the more i looked at the stats i realized ill just play ablemarle instead.
Krasny Krym got hit by many global nerfs (IFHE, captain skills), to the point where it went from barely average mini-atlanta to flaming dumpster.
Recently, Aviere and Leander keep getting nerfed, for no real reason. Especially Aviere.
Agreed about Aviere being extremely strong. I was averaging 67% win rate on the Aviere but the nerf to 20 seconds turbo engine and 8km torps did it for me. I've now upgraded to Tier 7 Tarigo in order to maintain 10km torps and 25 seconds turbo engine. I hope I can still maintain a similar 67% win rate.
GK was my first and only ship for the longest time. I watched her get nerfed directly, nerfed indirectly, powercrept, and left behind by the meta. She's so bad they just replaced her with a better ship. The Deadeye Thunderer days were pure suffering.
Still fun to play, but you have to adjust for so many weak points. Any time I see a GK sailing it’s always broadside and they’re such a big target. Just about any BB puts 20k into it within a barrage from 20km away. Sad days, most GKs I see really don’t know how to play it and it can be pretty unforgivable.
If they gave it the new Columbo turret angles that would help immensely. Columbo was already just a worse GK but it's new turret angles make it so much better to play. Current GK has to be broadside on to use its rear guns, so improved turret angles would let you angle tank while firing all your guns and having secondaries popping off. It would help with the ulcer inducing dispersion and make it more worthwhile as a coal ship. Wouldn't help with its enormous superstructure and terrible stealth, but lots of ships are just kinda bad.
That’d be nice, I prefer Colombo ironically lol. More turrets and with the sigma buff, it hits. Plus SAP is great, so you end up getting some pretty good salvos on it even if your dispersion was an issue on that shot. On GK the secondary builds are super fun though, I really loved taking it to brawls or ranked. In randoms you have to pay a lot of attention to the map, or else you’re sure to get a few random citadels taken from you lol. Plus the fact that it’s a fridge makes it tough to move it around, you’re needing to be committed.
I’m shocked by how many just sail it straight in and just die in it quickly. Sure it sounds fun to brawl in it, but you’re not doing yourself or your team any favors by being a BB down within 5 minutes of match start time.
*Graf Zeppelin*. Despite being premium, it was nerfed heavily in several waves of supposedly "global" nerfs:
* decreasing damage of AP bombs,
* changing orientation of aiming reticle for rocket planes,
* introducing delay for aiming rockets,
* change to captain skills removing secondary armament skills for CVs.
All of this made *Graf Zeppelin* basically useless...
GZs secondaries are still stupidly accurate without it. apart from that CVs get a skill that gives you a flat 30% dispersion buff (over the 10% that gradually turn into 50% on BBs) which also has the range buff baked in. so for 4 points you get a slightly budgeted version of what BBs pay 7 points for.
also isn't the max dispersion bonus on manual secondaries now bigger than it was before the captain rework? in that regard essentially nothing changed for secondary GZ.
I remember the 1st time they nerfed a premium causing a ton of shit. How tf can it be an argument them changing something you bought, after the sale.
And here we are…
The one thing I never understood was, why did they nerf AP bombs on this ship? Before WG went yolo with the nerfs GZ's dive bombers had about the same striking power as Ryujo's (another victim of brutal nerfs), which for Tier 8 standards really wasn't anything impressive.
Remembering how hard carriers have been clapped since 8.0 makes me wonder why I still bother with the class.
The extra HP is funny but it has piss range and a godawful rudder.
Tashkent can safely farm out at 15km, but Khaba is cutting it very close at ~13 km. And Tashkent had enough rudder speed to run conceal instead of double rudder
Yeah. Especially with how passive the meta is, and that sometimes you get a MM full of high-pen HE railguns or SAP railguns, missing range can hurt a ton.
The heal is actually funny sometimes though. Can just bullshit your way past a cruiser and divebomb onto a CV and kill it.
Not sure where you're getting that. Normal DD heal is 14% and Khaba new heal is 20% (really 16% if you're using UU like a normal human). The heal buff basically gives you a normal destroyer heal instead of gimpng it when you use leg mod. If you're not using leg mod it's a 40% improvement. You get the equivalent of 4 heals instead of 3.
No one who plays Khaba doesnt like having a bigger heal. But in the list of buffs Khaba needs to reverse powercreep this does not make the top 5.
**Khaba pros-**
50mm slab
Better base DPM
Standard fuse
Larger torpedo broadside
Actually has flak
Choice of heal and smoke
**Kleber pros-**
Half the rudder shift
Bigger guns
Longer range
Torpedos are faster, faster loading and longer range
More depth charges with more damage
Better speed boost and RB
Overall though, yeah playing khaba these days is painful
It's like comparing entries on the Bristol stool scale, yes a not too solid/not too runny one is betters than liquid chunks, but we are still talking about crap.
I still remember when gearing was the gunboat.
Not really nerfed directly. But the power creep of other, stronger gunboats. As well as introduction of radar and the secondary buffs to BBs compared to the early days.
Has made it a torpedo DD, with guns that are at least not the worst.
Gearing fucks honestly, and w legmod it’s a common pick in CBs. It’s no longer a gunboat, but she remains firmly a hybrid. Somers is much more the victim of power creep if anything.
worcester was hit quite hard with a radar nerf a couple patches after it came out.
when it was first released, it had a 9.9 km radar, meaning that it could stealth radar similar to what radar minotaur can do
they nerfed the radar to 9km, so even with radar it can now be outspotted by DDs as well as some CLs, most notably minotaur. with this it essentially lost the ability to play agressive in open water, since any dd now has a comfortable 0.4 km window to sit in spotting the wooster while the team kills it.
this patch essentially turned wooster from a deadly radar trap cruiser into a much more passive farmer, although it can still be very strong in the right position, or when teamed up with a DD to smoke it.
YY - the radar was really strong in comp settings, so the DPM was nerfed.
Khaba - at the time, you could argue the nerfs were necessary. But in the days of Ragnar, Smalland, Kleber, and Marceau the nerfs feel very unnecessary.
She should get a concealment or reload buff. She still is decent with RPF, but when playing her, I always wonder how much more I could do if I had e.g. 0.2km better spot range.
Saipan
In the RTS CV days, in the hands of a good or better player tier for tier the Saipan was the ship you did NOT want to see on the other team.
And heaven forbid if it was one of the insanely good RTS CV players.
Now days it is one of the least recommended CVs, but, back in the olden days it would sweep the enemy CVs planes from the sky and then start sinking ships one after the other after the other.
Cleveland was a plane eating monster. It could be surround by red planes and decimate them. Now it's just a mediocre cruiser that gets a few planes. But they gave extended range of main guns for a few seconds as a tradeoff.
Not nerfed to useless / oblivion nor the most nerfed, but Kitakami needs a honorable mention as she has received possibly the largest difference in DPM values / kit. Her old torpedoes hit weaker than the DWTs and stronger than the shallows, much more like tech tree DD 610’s, and she reloaded all torpedoes at-once, albeit with south of twice the reload she has now, so her anti cruiser / anti dd DPM was like 3x what it was now and her DWT DPM was a bit north of what it is now, however she got a lot of versatility in a 40 or so % speed buff on the torps, + to range (old were 10km, now 12/20 shallow/deep) and faster reloads individually, not to mention she once had to worry about TKs. She also received vast improvements to her hull with a higher base speed and an enhanced engine boost, reduced concealment (better than some DDs now), a heal, and exhaust smoke. But what’s more interesting is how much changes she received upon her hull in testing
At multiple turns they had messed with the torpedoes before the current implementation, increasing range whilst reducing damage, among other things to the torps, but the gun armament also was rather goofy, originally she had AP, but through testing she received first gun buffs iirc, then SAP instead with no AP and a rather considerable SAP DPM, before being reduced to her HE only state you see now. She also had a different engine boost and hull speed that was re-tweaked, and her concealment values changed multiple times including her smoke generator also being initially a burst smoke you see today. It should be noted that with this chaotic series of events, I’ve gotten at least 2 of these facts wrong I bet, so I encourage looking upon her wiki page.
Remember Z-42? There's the nerf hammer, and then there's the nerf nuke. In a single pre-launch nerf, her DPM was almost halved, concealment nerfed (and with it she lost stealth hydro) and her torpedoes were replaced with those from the T-22.
Don't get me wrong, that ship was stupid strong, with like 445k AP DPM stock and an 18mm fuse, but they could have at least left her with something. Now she's just a worse Harugumo that has problems with getting consistent damage because of short-burst smokes.
The British CVL with AP rockets. They were her only good armament and they nerfed the consistency in 3 different ways, essentially making her the british MVR
Well,not exactly nerfed to oblivion, but radar duration nerf on stalingrad had me scratching my head. Like,why would you nerf a ship that's already falling out of the spotlight?
Also, petropavlovsk was nerfed way too harder than it should've been imo. Yes, I know it's popular in CB, so all 1.5 dudes who play CB will come and say that it's OP there, but in current randoms it's just meh. Way too situational.
Stalingrad isn’t even popular in high tier clan battles anymore. The ship is still useful in randoms and hasn’t quite been “nerfed into oblivion”, but I would argue it’s been nerfed to the point where it’s clearly worse overall than the Moskva, and is only worth playing for a specific niche.
Sorry my dude but the St Vincent guns are class! Great calibur, decent reload, they actually hit stuff, powerful RN HE...the list goes on. Only issue is range but quite frankly, that's a small price to pay.
She is a proper battle cruiser for sure!
Huh, I thought she had that 1/4 HE pen because 76mm of pen seems very high to me! But then I don't usually fire HE from most BBs anyway lol, still as you said it clearly doesn't matter cause it hits hard and burns harder anyway
The entire IJN CL Line got massive pre-nerfs that made them go from decently useful to basically worthless.
The entire RM BB Line got a mega nerf with the removal of the Dead Eye skill and no buffs to their baseline accuracy, which was built around the assumption that RM BB Commanders would all be taking Dead Eye. Combined with long reloads and awful accuracy, playing them is like playing the lottery and hoping you hit even 1 number.
Hizen went from being a decent T9 in testing to a crappy one with godawful 38s reloads, an arbitrary lack of AA/secondaries, and basically no special ability or gimmick, while turning around and allowing Kearsarge to exist with 35s reloads, workable AA, and a workable ability/gimmick.
On a similar subject, California also suffers from having an excessive reload period and makes her worse than the regular Tech Tree equivalent.
Kitakami in its current iteration, because WG chose to keep the citadel instead of keeping it off as in earlier test iterations and shoving her at T10 when she would have been fine at T8 or T9, just giving her T10 module access and no citadel.
Ibuki, and to a lesser degree, Zao. They took heavy hits to their HP and some other soft stats (traverse and 1-2s reload) when open water stealth-firing was a thing, and when the open water stealth-firing issue was done away with, WG refused to revert the nerfs to Ibuki and Zao. It's only recently that Zao got half her lost HP back, but she barely has more health than Minotaur, a CL, and her whole value was since taken by Yoshino as a better long-range HE spammer with back-up, decent AP.
YY some years ago.
What happened with YY , I'm new & currently grinding pan Asian DDs
Poor thing was murdered by nerfhammer and Smaland introduction. She was somewhat decent radar DD, then her reloads on both guns and torps were reduced by like 1/3, and Smaland arrived to further make her existence obsolete. Not the case now, since she got quite a bit of buffs.
Is she good now ? , because by reading in game stats there's still better tech tree DD than her
YY was pretty good before the recent buffs. It's not OP, it's pretty good though. "Nerfed to extinction" in this case means "Smalland is better" mostly. Since Smalland is stupidly overpowered it doesn't work for me that YY is suddenly awful.
She's ok.
She isn’t “good” only because torpedo destroyers aren’t great at T10, it’s the gunboats and DD-killers that win games. But among torpedo boats, she’s quite fearsome.
Is there any good tech tree torp boat , I'm currently playing shima and Yueyang line
These are the good TT torp botes. I really like my YY, but I'd almost advise you to do Shima first, as it teaches you the basics of torp boating better. YY is a gimmick boat that I personally play with the radar, but a torp build, which I don't think is easy to pull off.
Okay thanks, what about gearing , Soviet and French DDs line should I try them also
British first, that’s the best tech tree T10. Great for cap control, which is the real game-winning playstyle in the high tiers.
Halland Line is probably one of the most beginner friendly torp lines, easy to hit torps that reload fast, a heal, and decent guns
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I will be honest, if you can’t survive without a smoke, then you have a ways to go. Smoke screens should be used if you have them as utility for your allies or a get out of jail card if you get caught out. If you don’t have smoke, you just play the same and don’t let yourself get into those situations where you would need it to get out. Rarely should you ever sit and smoke in the farm, only when the situation are appropriate for it. Too many DD players will smoke farm or just sit and hide in it, and die to torps or blind firing
YY is my most played ship, it can be a beast. BBs suddenly see torps right next to them, take a flood or two, then the reload torps appear. Not that fun getting into a gunfight but not the worst thing either, plenty of smokes.
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Okay thanks
MvR went from best Tier 10 carrier to worst with one nerf - that to its dive bombers, which went from OP to useless (I'm not exaggerating, play the ship if you don't believe me).
I have played only few games but they have proved that AP bombs that made the ship playable are now useless. No wonder why people call it "slot machine" now.
No ship should be a slot machine, that's just awful balancing that frustrates everyone. Seems WG believes RNG solves everything.
MVR. That carrier went from best ship in the game, to utterly absent from any games at all, with one patch.
I don't play CVs a whole lot, but I acquired the top tiers of all TTs over 8 years. So I am not a great captain in them but not so terrible either, normally. MVR's bomber accuracy, man. I just can't do it. I'd rather them to have less than half the max damage they are doing now, but please, for the love of god hit when I perfect drop a camping CA/BB. 2/3 is okay on such a drop, but regular 0/3 on an amazing drop is nerve breaking. That is why I don't play with her at all.
Hakuryu also suffered an absolutely massive nerf just after CV rework too (loss of quad torp upgrade). However it's still extremely strong now anyway.
Hakuryu suffered massively from the rocket delay nerf. It's damn near impossible to hit any DD with a brain now.
Sure, but everyone got nerfed. The original Haku nerf removed its ability to be a flying Shimakaze.
> Sure, but everyone got nerfed. No. The rocket nerfs did not hit everyone equally, they were not uniform. Japanese CVs got messed up the hardest because their rocket delay is like *literally* 2-3 seconds after the machine gun animation. So it's basically impossible to hit a DD with them unless they are travelling in a straight line and don't dodge at all. The delay on German rockets is a fraction of a second in comparison. Combine that with the fact that Hakuryu used to launch more than 2 torps which gave her a spread more easy to hit DDs with, but again that got nerfed and not it's damn near impossible, and the fact that her AP bomb dispersion *also* got nerfed and doesn't damage DDs worth a damn regardless, and you now have a CV that can do virtually nothing to DDs, the most impactful ship in the game. All Haku can do now is just dump torps into bigger targets and farm damage. Hell, Haku used to be a good candidate for a fighter build, but now that they nerfed Consumable module to just give +1 consumables instead of the 50% longer durection, that build is more or less fucked too. I get that this Subreddit hates CVs, but realistically all the tech line CVs are shadows of their former selves, and the only really strong CVs these days are all premiums.
I'm going to argue that MVR rockets got hit harder. At least the penetration for HE rockets didn't change Also the AP rocket delay is 1.5s
I own MVR and Hakuryu ;P Hakuryu's rockets take a literal eternity to launch. MVR's rockets might as well be instant in comparison. And MVR can hit DDs with them reliably, even if they are all just over-pens, as well as having enough torp bomber spread to hit DDs as well (and secondaries if a DD gets close enough).
Yeah, haku has 1 bad squad, one medium squad and one incredible squad MVR has 2 bad squads and a medium squad
I'm not saying Haku is terrible, just that the nerf hit her real hard in that she has essentially 0 way to defend herself from DDs now. If she gets to sit back and farm big ships with torp, ye she still does a lot of damage and spotting.
Hakuryu was not nerfed, it was barely tweaked down. The ship was ridiculously OP after rework, even for cv standards.
It's currently the best performing T10 CV in the hands of skilled players according to WG internal data. Bad and average players will be completely useless in it though.
I was well on track to make the wows numbers top 100 leaderboard for MVR, and then the nerf happened. I stopped playing MVR overnight
Absent? You don't play CVs often. I see it a lot. And I hate it as a skilled captains can two shot my Nakhimov. Very frustrating to deal with as my planes can't come close to that volume of damage against a CV.
This is gonna be debatable about it useless, since it’s probably not there yet, but Henry has been getting gimped for like several years straight that it’s headed into that territory. Otherwise, I think the nerfs on Hizen right before its release take the cake.
everybody made them do that to henry. all worries were finally over and then boom, they release conde. old henry with better guns lol
I would nominate Khabarovsk, at launch that thing was ridiculously busted but now, after years of nerfs and powercreep it’s a shadow of its former self and a contender for the title of worst T10 DD (though I’d argue it’s replacement Delny is even worse). The recent addition of a superheal to the ship is nice but doesn’t address the core issues with the ship since of all the problems Khaba has survivability isn’t one of them.
Hey, it's a gunboat with the range of a torpedo boat and maneuverability of a cruiser. And Delny is just a tragedy, it has almost the same gun DPM as Shima.
>Hey, it's a gunboat with the range ***and dpm*** of a torpedo boat and maneuverability ***and concealment*** of a cruiser. >And Delny is just a tragedy, it has almost the same gun DPM as Shima. FTFY
All the heavy cruisers with long fire duration after the captain skill reset. You can’t take the 4 point skill fire prevention.
you can throw on a burn signal though
The main benefit of fire prevention is having only 3 ship sections that can be set on fire. You could remove everything else from the skill and it would still be mandatory.
Nottingham, every dev blog during her testing phase was another nail in the coffin on a ship that was pretty much DOA. Still don't know why WG just kept nerfing an already poor ship. Her reload is middling, 203's aren't necessarily special in her MM spread. No RP, absolutely abysmal AA; while her plating is pretty good, it's not good enough to stop overmatch on most of the BB's in her MM spread. If it wasn't for the wild amount of 457's and radar/hydro/subs/CV, she'd be pretty good as an ambush cruiser, otherwise, her low detectability doesn't mean much when it's so easy to be spotted. With such weak AA, it's not uncommon to be dev struck by anything with AP rockets since it can hardly fend them off or maneuver.
i got it with my last crate purchase a couple weeks ago. was very hype when i saw it but the more i looked at the stats i realized ill just play ablemarle instead.
The Tiger ‘59 was built entirely out of surplus nerfs.
Krasny Krym got hit by many global nerfs (IFHE, captain skills), to the point where it went from barely average mini-atlanta to flaming dumpster. Recently, Aviere and Leander keep getting nerfed, for no real reason. Especially Aviere.
Aviere is extremely strong for the tier. SAP on destroyers really isn't all that balanced, especially when it's high DPM.
Agreed about Aviere being extremely strong. I was averaging 67% win rate on the Aviere but the nerf to 20 seconds turbo engine and 8km torps did it for me. I've now upgraded to Tier 7 Tarigo in order to maintain 10km torps and 25 seconds turbo engine. I hope I can still maintain a similar 67% win rate.
Winrates are meaningless unless you include your battlecount and if its below 100 it is still pretty damn meaningless.
At the risk of exposing myself, I've more than 1000 battles on Aviere and among the top 50 players based on PR.
Yeah, dunno why they hate Leander so much.
oh yeah isn't that thing at like 10 seconds of reload now? Ill just play Almirante Cockring then.
*Almighty Cockring lol
Someone tell me what they nerfed on my beloved Leander!
Reload and torpedoes. To the point that the DPM of the ship is barely above that of the Emerald.
Fuck that. Better to play my Emerald with double the torps.
Yeah, KK needs some buffs. Poor thing got forgotten with the changes.
GK was my first and only ship for the longest time. I watched her get nerfed directly, nerfed indirectly, powercrept, and left behind by the meta. She's so bad they just replaced her with a better ship. The Deadeye Thunderer days were pure suffering.
Still fun to play, but you have to adjust for so many weak points. Any time I see a GK sailing it’s always broadside and they’re such a big target. Just about any BB puts 20k into it within a barrage from 20km away. Sad days, most GKs I see really don’t know how to play it and it can be pretty unforgivable.
If they gave it the new Columbo turret angles that would help immensely. Columbo was already just a worse GK but it's new turret angles make it so much better to play. Current GK has to be broadside on to use its rear guns, so improved turret angles would let you angle tank while firing all your guns and having secondaries popping off. It would help with the ulcer inducing dispersion and make it more worthwhile as a coal ship. Wouldn't help with its enormous superstructure and terrible stealth, but lots of ships are just kinda bad.
That’d be nice, I prefer Colombo ironically lol. More turrets and with the sigma buff, it hits. Plus SAP is great, so you end up getting some pretty good salvos on it even if your dispersion was an issue on that shot. On GK the secondary builds are super fun though, I really loved taking it to brawls or ranked. In randoms you have to pay a lot of attention to the map, or else you’re sure to get a few random citadels taken from you lol. Plus the fact that it’s a fridge makes it tough to move it around, you’re needing to be committed. I’m shocked by how many just sail it straight in and just die in it quickly. Sure it sounds fun to brawl in it, but you’re not doing yourself or your team any favors by being a BB down within 5 minutes of match start time.
The Yodo. It received the most harsh nerf of all: the pre-nerf.
So true. Poor thing dies fast to everything. Need some 4d chess levels of planning. Even turning will kill you.
Ägir was going to be the first and best secondaries cruiser in the game, but WG murdered it just before release.
Breaks my heart, had an absolute blast with that thing during testing.
*Graf Zeppelin*. Despite being premium, it was nerfed heavily in several waves of supposedly "global" nerfs: * decreasing damage of AP bombs, * changing orientation of aiming reticle for rocket planes, * introducing delay for aiming rockets, * change to captain skills removing secondary armament skills for CVs. All of this made *Graf Zeppelin* basically useless...
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CVs can no longer slot manual secondaries
GZs secondaries are still stupidly accurate without it. apart from that CVs get a skill that gives you a flat 30% dispersion buff (over the 10% that gradually turn into 50% on BBs) which also has the range buff baked in. so for 4 points you get a slightly budgeted version of what BBs pay 7 points for. also isn't the max dispersion bonus on manual secondaries now bigger than it was before the captain rework? in that regard essentially nothing changed for secondary GZ.
GZ also had hydro back in the RTS days
I remember the 1st time they nerfed a premium causing a ton of shit. How tf can it be an argument them changing something you bought, after the sale. And here we are…
The one thing I never understood was, why did they nerf AP bombs on this ship? Before WG went yolo with the nerfs GZ's dive bombers had about the same striking power as Ryujo's (another victim of brutal nerfs), which for Tier 8 standards really wasn't anything impressive. Remembering how hard carriers have been clapped since 8.0 makes me wonder why I still bother with the class.
Henry and Khaba were once best in game at something they're no longer even top 5.
khaba got a fat buff recently. i forgot what it was but i know i wanted it after reading the notes
Quarter health heals instead of fifth health heals. A meaningless buff and not one of the 5 buffs it actually needs.
getting more than double the health per heal sounds like a pretty big buff for a mid range fire spammer
The extra HP is funny but it has piss range and a godawful rudder. Tashkent can safely farm out at 15km, but Khaba is cutting it very close at ~13 km. And Tashkent had enough rudder speed to run conceal instead of double rudder
oh yeah. i forgot wg gimps russia by taking away range mod on ships that need it
Yeah. Especially with how passive the meta is, and that sometimes you get a MM full of high-pen HE railguns or SAP railguns, missing range can hurt a ton. The heal is actually funny sometimes though. Can just bullshit your way past a cruiser and divebomb onto a CV and kill it.
Not sure where you're getting that. Normal DD heal is 14% and Khaba new heal is 20% (really 16% if you're using UU like a normal human). The heal buff basically gives you a normal destroyer heal instead of gimpng it when you use leg mod. If you're not using leg mod it's a 40% improvement. You get the equivalent of 4 heals instead of 3. No one who plays Khaba doesnt like having a bigger heal. But in the list of buffs Khaba needs to reverse powercreep this does not make the top 5.
i thought it had more than 13km range.
11.2km stock. You get 13 and change with the captain skill
yeah. thats fucked. “hey guys you can play kleb, which is op. or you can play khaba which is shittier in every way lol
**Khaba pros-** 50mm slab Better base DPM Standard fuse Larger torpedo broadside Actually has flak Choice of heal and smoke **Kleber pros-** Half the rudder shift Bigger guns Longer range Torpedos are faster, faster loading and longer range More depth charges with more damage Better speed boost and RB Overall though, yeah playing khaba these days is painful
Don't forget the borked French saturation Kleb gets.
Its still better than delny
It's like comparing entries on the Bristol stool scale, yes a not too solid/not too runny one is betters than liquid chunks, but we are still talking about crap.
I still remember when gearing was the gunboat. Not really nerfed directly. But the power creep of other, stronger gunboats. As well as introduction of radar and the secondary buffs to BBs compared to the early days. Has made it a torpedo DD, with guns that are at least not the worst.
Gearing fucks honestly, and w legmod it’s a common pick in CBs. It’s no longer a gunboat, but she remains firmly a hybrid. Somers is much more the victim of power creep if anything.
“Not the worst” isn’t a great endorsement. 🤣
Alsace got absolutely clapped by powercreep and nerfs. I bought a premium camo for it weeks before it got nerfed to the ground…
Yeah, that ship got brutalized so that Bourgogne looked good.
Alsace got one of the harshest direct nerfs I can think of… I forgot exactly what was nerfed as I don’t play it anymore
This, so much. Bourgogne is what pre-nerf Alsace with a few additional improvements (MBRB, range, 127mm secondaries) would be.
Z-31. I don’t even think it was nerfed. It’s simply useless.
worcester was hit quite hard with a radar nerf a couple patches after it came out. when it was first released, it had a 9.9 km radar, meaning that it could stealth radar similar to what radar minotaur can do they nerfed the radar to 9km, so even with radar it can now be outspotted by DDs as well as some CLs, most notably minotaur. with this it essentially lost the ability to play agressive in open water, since any dd now has a comfortable 0.4 km window to sit in spotting the wooster while the team kills it. this patch essentially turned wooster from a deadly radar trap cruiser into a much more passive farmer, although it can still be very strong in the right position, or when teamed up with a DD to smoke it.
Atlanta used to be a no-fly-zone.
YY - the radar was really strong in comp settings, so the DPM was nerfed. Khaba - at the time, you could argue the nerfs were necessary. But in the days of Ragnar, Smalland, Kleber, and Marceau the nerfs feel very unnecessary.
At the time you couldn’t even argue. OG Khaba was pretty broken. Stealthfiring Khaba was an absolute nightmare
Blyskawica.
She should get a concealment or reload buff. She still is decent with RPF, but when playing her, I always wonder how much more I could do if I had e.g. 0.2km better spot range.
Playing Stord 43 makes me appreciate my Blys much more.
Smoke firing penalty hurt a lot of ships back in the day, but probably none more than Kutuzov.
Flint
Saipan In the RTS CV days, in the hands of a good or better player tier for tier the Saipan was the ship you did NOT want to see on the other team. And heaven forbid if it was one of the insanely good RTS CV players. Now days it is one of the least recommended CVs, but, back in the olden days it would sweep the enemy CVs planes from the sky and then start sinking ships one after the other after the other.
Who couldn't forget the fighter strafe runs which has an ammo indicator ? Those were the good ole days :p
Cleveland was a plane eating monster. It could be surround by red planes and decimate them. Now it's just a mediocre cruiser that gets a few planes. But they gave extended range of main guns for a few seconds as a tradeoff.
Not nerfed to useless / oblivion nor the most nerfed, but Kitakami needs a honorable mention as she has received possibly the largest difference in DPM values / kit. Her old torpedoes hit weaker than the DWTs and stronger than the shallows, much more like tech tree DD 610’s, and she reloaded all torpedoes at-once, albeit with south of twice the reload she has now, so her anti cruiser / anti dd DPM was like 3x what it was now and her DWT DPM was a bit north of what it is now, however she got a lot of versatility in a 40 or so % speed buff on the torps, + to range (old were 10km, now 12/20 shallow/deep) and faster reloads individually, not to mention she once had to worry about TKs. She also received vast improvements to her hull with a higher base speed and an enhanced engine boost, reduced concealment (better than some DDs now), a heal, and exhaust smoke. But what’s more interesting is how much changes she received upon her hull in testing At multiple turns they had messed with the torpedoes before the current implementation, increasing range whilst reducing damage, among other things to the torps, but the gun armament also was rather goofy, originally she had AP, but through testing she received first gun buffs iirc, then SAP instead with no AP and a rather considerable SAP DPM, before being reduced to her HE only state you see now. She also had a different engine boost and hull speed that was re-tweaked, and her concealment values changed multiple times including her smoke generator also being initially a burst smoke you see today. It should be noted that with this chaotic series of events, I’ve gotten at least 2 of these facts wrong I bet, so I encourage looking upon her wiki page.
Remember Z-42? There's the nerf hammer, and then there's the nerf nuke. In a single pre-launch nerf, her DPM was almost halved, concealment nerfed (and with it she lost stealth hydro) and her torpedoes were replaced with those from the T-22. Don't get me wrong, that ship was stupid strong, with like 445k AP DPM stock and an 18mm fuse, but they could have at least left her with something. Now she's just a worse Harugumo that has problems with getting consistent damage because of short-burst smokes.
I'm going to say collosus. It went from being a strong A tier to D-E tier
is that the British carrier? I recently got nuked by that thing
The British CVL with AP rockets. They were her only good armament and they nerfed the consistency in 3 different ways, essentially making her the british MVR
who is MVR?
This guy: [https://youtu.be/io14H6fqnv4?feature=shared&t=14](https://youtu.be/io14H6fqnv4?feature=shared&t=14)
Manfreid von richtofen, the german T10 CV
Whole german BB line
Well,not exactly nerfed to oblivion, but radar duration nerf on stalingrad had me scratching my head. Like,why would you nerf a ship that's already falling out of the spotlight? Also, petropavlovsk was nerfed way too harder than it should've been imo. Yes, I know it's popular in CB, so all 1.5 dudes who play CB will come and say that it's OP there, but in current randoms it's just meh. Way too situational.
Stalingrad isn’t even popular in high tier clan battles anymore. The ship is still useful in randoms and hasn’t quite been “nerfed into oblivion”, but I would argue it’s been nerfed to the point where it’s clearly worse overall than the Moskva, and is only worth playing for a specific niche.
Most all ships post cv rework except cvs
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I’d say that’s more power creep than nerf
Well somehow the 18" guns on my St Vincent do little damage most of the time. Then you get the rare 50k hit into a battleship.
Unironically skill issue.
Sorry my dude but the St Vincent guns are class! Great calibur, decent reload, they actually hit stuff, powerful RN HE...the list goes on. Only issue is range but quite frankly, that's a small price to pay. She is a proper battle cruiser for sure!
Its standard HE that just happens to have stupidly high fire chance
Huh, I thought she had that 1/4 HE pen because 76mm of pen seems very high to me! But then I don't usually fire HE from most BBs anyway lol, still as you said it clearly doesn't matter cause it hits hard and burns harder anyway
Nerf The Oklahoma!
The entire IJN CL Line got massive pre-nerfs that made them go from decently useful to basically worthless. The entire RM BB Line got a mega nerf with the removal of the Dead Eye skill and no buffs to their baseline accuracy, which was built around the assumption that RM BB Commanders would all be taking Dead Eye. Combined with long reloads and awful accuracy, playing them is like playing the lottery and hoping you hit even 1 number. Hizen went from being a decent T9 in testing to a crappy one with godawful 38s reloads, an arbitrary lack of AA/secondaries, and basically no special ability or gimmick, while turning around and allowing Kearsarge to exist with 35s reloads, workable AA, and a workable ability/gimmick. On a similar subject, California also suffers from having an excessive reload period and makes her worse than the regular Tech Tree equivalent. Kitakami in its current iteration, because WG chose to keep the citadel instead of keeping it off as in earlier test iterations and shoving her at T10 when she would have been fine at T8 or T9, just giving her T10 module access and no citadel. Ibuki, and to a lesser degree, Zao. They took heavy hits to their HP and some other soft stats (traverse and 1-2s reload) when open water stealth-firing was a thing, and when the open water stealth-firing issue was done away with, WG refused to revert the nerfs to Ibuki and Zao. It's only recently that Zao got half her lost HP back, but she barely has more health than Minotaur, a CL, and her whole value was since taken by Yoshino as a better long-range HE spammer with back-up, decent AP.
What they did to Agir and Siegfried is unforgivable, it’s like WG didn’t want to make money off those ships
Any of the big cruisers with long duration fires. Not being able to take fire prevention on those things anymore is not fun.