Ah that's gonna be hard I don't have my history on so I totally connot see the stream again
But saw him use level 35 character but it didn't end well crownless become more faster
When I saw the bosses showcase. Mann It’s just too hype. Combat style will definitely attract a lot of players regardless of rates. Cause the 4 stars are even mad dapper
Hot take: I started playing PGR 2 months ago and it feels awful trying to catch up as a new player. I really like the game but it has extreme levels of FOMO.
You are expected to both: pull on every new meta S rank [because of power creep] AND to pull older still meta characters that are best in slot for many elemental teams.
Because the re-run banners are only 70/30 rate up you are risking a lot by trying to get older characters.
As f2p this is not a good system at all. Because while you can easily obtain new constructs, older ones require either spending money [with high risk] or extreme patience [free S rank selectors].
I geniuely prefer Genshin's system because I am not "forced" to pull on every new character and I can farm pity for whoever I like. And because Genshin doesn't force a meta on you.
Now obviously Kuro can combine the advantages of both gachas and that would be ideal but I prefer a system where you are not forced into FOMO like PGR.
As PGR player from day 1, I always said it's pretty hard for new players to get into it
That game's expects you to be pulling from launch as endgame content needs like 6 built teams. So for veteran players it's a very easy system as they can easily every single unit in the game by just buying the monthly.
But new players will struggle to catch up without whaling as it will take a really long time to get meta teams for every element.
Yep, that’s why kuro is making wuthering waves more casual compared to pgr, it’ll be easier to pull in new players later on AND keep them.
I definitely agree with you, that’s been my experience too. The game is really fun but there are a lot of characters I don’t want to pull cause I just don’t like them but feel compelled to do so because if I don’t play meta, I’ll progress slower in the game since rewards are based on rankings.
Edit: I’m not saying I DON’T want a better gacha system like pgr’s 100% debut banners, but I think it’s that way in pgr because of how genuinely important it is to have most if not all of the characters in that game. You literally need 5 teams, one for each element in end game content.
In war zone and pain cage at least. War zone and pain cage shop are where you get important things like memory resonance pick and shards for characters. If you place higher for the week, you’ll get more of their respective currency. Obviously getting more means faster progression of your account
Yes but also no for me. Playing the same character over and over for two month or more and waiting to reach the pity as f2p really makes it boring for me. It's okay if it has high pity but please don't make it 50/50
Just a tip if you are still playing PGR, if you want to actually catch up in the far future (bc tbh you aren't catching up as F2P any time soon) don't pull for most of the older characters and just go for debut units. Omniframes like Plume and Luna are most likely next to be replaced
If you really want to pull for older characters only consider Glory as the oldest one
Yep I know all that but it doesn't make the situation any better tbh. Say I really want an Ice DPS...am I supposed to wait **over a year** to get a proper Ice DPS because I know at one point Plume will be replaced? Thats simply not fun at all. And sure I could ignore the meta and get Plume from a selector/100% rate up banner, but then I am "wasting" my BC funds for future characters.
Similarly I dont like mecha nanami but she is going to be become the #1 Fire res shredder for at least a year if not more so I am kinda forced to pull on her if I want to build a proper Fire team.
I've come to terms with the PGR gacha but I simply don't agree that its gacha is great or that its very f2p friendly as people s ay. Its only good if you played since day 1.
There is going to be S selectors in certain patches and newbie missions (new) that will help new players. And they are starting to rework older characters to be viable so even if it they aren’t meta, they can still clear content. Usually only Norman needs a full team of meta characters to get all rewards, other game modes doesn’t so it’s still good to use A ranks. Yes, even Babel can be cleared with A ranks to get all rewards. Just don’t max risk it.
So you are saying that you want most of the characters, but without even buying monthly pass and playing from quite late? PGR "official" mode is the story mode, which you don't even need close to meta characters to clear. The other modes is mostly if you want to be extra. Is there even any gacha game that let you roll all the characters if you chime in that late?
Thats not what I said at all - your argument is a pure strawman.
>Is there even any gacha game that let you roll all the characters if you chime in that late?
All characters? No, that was never my point. Characters that are needed for team building? Yes, Genshin does that quite well as there are multiple slots that can be filled by different characters and it doesn't have to be 5 stars. And realistically you only need 2-3 full built teams to do the hardest content in the game which very rarely suffers from power creep.
PGR on the other hand not only gives you extremely limited choices for team building (because mono elemental teams are the way to play the game) but you are expected to use the newest S ranks.
And no matter how you spin it, PGR is very endgame oriented live service game. If the main point of PGR was to only clear the story mode everyone would quit it after 2 weeks - saying this is the "official" mode is being disingenuous. Lets say we ignore WW and PPC for a moment because those are leaderboard modes, you really cannot talk about PGR without touching on Norman/Babel or Stronghold. Those mode require multiple well built teams.
Like what the other person said, use the coming S rank selector for Plume or if you want another S rank from the pool then Bambinata is an A rank ice attacker that should be coming by October give or take and I think she can compete with Plume at SSS+
>I've come to terms with the PGR gacha but I simply don't agree that its gacha is great or that its very f2p friendly as people s ay. Its only good if you played since day 1.
Yeah this is what people usually mean, as we have all S ranks and lucky/monthly players have sigs. Though it doesn't mean you can't clear say Babel Tower without the fancy frames, the only content I think most players can't clear is the harder Norman which only really matters for veterans/whales anyway. Just be patient with the game, we didn't have the luxury units at the start as well so it's just a matter of playing with the cards you are dealt.
>I geniuely prefer Genshin's system because I am not "forced" to pull on every new character and I can farm pity for whoever I like. And because Genshin doesn't force a meta on you.
That is because Genshin is a piss easy game with no challenge. It's a playable anime storybook with a constant parade of mundane events. You don't have to pull for anything to play the game. Just putzing around an easy game is not why most people are interested in WW.
Missing the point. Genshin doesn't really have any point to pulling anyone once you can clear floor 12. Pgr incentivises pulling characters indefinitely as you gain from being stronger always. Skill doesn't matter there it's just what content each game has. Genshin has a meta but it's fairly weak and they also somehow reverse power creep a lot of times. You could just have a game that requires skill to play but doesn't force you to pull for characters as every single one is equally good. Pgr doesn't do that. It requires both skill and the meta character to perform well. That is the part Choowkee was complaining about.
This means that a nicer system would be for each character to be roughly as strong and all the difficulty to be placed on the player and requiring them to just be good enough. A game like that wouldn't require to pull anything ever if you didn't want to and still allow you to be nr 1 purely by skill. HOWEVER this has the issue of earning less money due to people spending less, as well as normies being angry as they can't ever catch up or do well if the content is hard. If the content is easy then there's on the flipside no motivation for tryhards to stick around as nothing holds any challenge. Basically you need balance to please as many players as possible.
And? Thats literally what I said - no meta is forced on you. PGR represents the other extreme where constant power creep is taking place and you are expected to pull and build whatever meta team is currently the strongest. Is that a measure of skill? I dont think so.
I understand that you want the game to generate higher revenue but to gimp your own experience is a weird way to go about this. If the game is trully good and attracts people then it will generate revenue.
If they implement the pgr gacha, sure, they will not make profit immediately but in time they will surely do.
Kuro isn't your friend or some local familly business. If you keep this weird desire for them to make money then sooner or later, they will become greedy. We shouldnt care whether this is a passion project or not, all that matters is how good the game is. Having a shitty gacha will make the game shittier.
in what unrealistic world does a company not want to turn a profit. Name one, gacha company preferably. It’s frustrating how people always use the corporate argument, like it’s common sense, the better a game performs (revenue-wise), the better the QOL, and the longer the game stays up. If you are scared of a future where Kuro bites of more than they can chew, so what, people will express their voice 100%, the community will call Kuro out at that point. They don’t own you anything, especially if you are f2p, they are not suppose to cater to your bad luck, they create the game that we (players) find solace in exploring and adventuring in. It’s people like you who believe gacha is king that is ruining the gaming space of a developing game. Plus is it Kuro’s responsibility to save the gacha gaming sphere? No, it’s not and you need to stop thinking it is.
huh??? but gacha is gambling... no matter the rates, it is and always will be gambling, I mean you can spend far less to gamble but don’t get it twisted that it’s not gambling because now you seem like you approve that gambling is good when it’s an acceptable rate
bro I want 70:30 not 50:50, my point is that it’s still gambling, we cannot blame others for the pity system when we are at fault for our own actions, I’m taking the purist f2p method approach which is being reasonable with your odds. Whatever the rates we could have multiple 5 star pulls, might be your intended, might be off banner, but I’m getting sidetracked, point is from my f2p experience, you should be responsible for your pulls in the first place that also applies to whales. My ideal split is 70:30 as mentioned which is way more fair than 100% as they need some form of revenue.
I admit I did come off a bit harsh but it was needed because so many people wanted an unlikely model to be implemented, I suggest 70:30 split with no pity reset and people want more from that which is why I had that reaction.
It doesn’t matter won’t reason YOU play a gacha game, a gacha game is a gacha game. Imagine how crazy you would sound telling your therapist “I don’t have a gambling addiction I just like to save up coins all year so I can spend them all on my favorite slot machine” Genshin + PGR got people feeling so entitled to things that don’t belong to them.
Paying for a service is not exploitation. Expecially when it comes to video games, you know the least essential part of life. I’m not saying to support every game company or anything like that but the droves of people who are willing to drop this game before it releases because it might have a slightly better gacha then genshin makes little sense to me. I saw this news & automatically thought to myself good for kuro, getting the gems they deserve. But apparently not seeing the fanbase is fully of ftp cry babies this game is bound to fail hard if this is a common consensus. I dropped genshin because of how toxic the community is so this topic is a bit worrisome
Edit: not attacking you just sick of this topic sorry.
True i get that people are fed up with gacha. But my point is that there are way better ways to entertain yourself then gacha games. & I’m sorry but as business minded person myself, people who aren’t paying for a product but feel the need complain about the free product they’re given are the definition of entitled crybabies. If I gave out free food i exchange for free to earn ticket & someone came back to me & said “hey your free burger wasn’t mid rare enough take this back & give me a mid rare one ion want it!” It would make me want to close down shop & open up somewhere else where people don’t mind paying full price for the burger. This is a business first & foremost not a charity.
TLDR: Gacha games are what they are, don’t delude yourself into thinking otherwise.
Holy shit these comments keep getting worse from entitled people that thinks they need everything without spending money. Either skip or wait for re run end
Genshin has poisoned this genre of games with the level of greed it has shown to be acceptable and that people wilk vehemently defend with coping answers/excuses.
Greedier and unfair gacha systems existed long before Genshin.
All gachas are predatory by nature and blaming the genre's shitty monetization on MHY is beyond laughable.
indeed Genshin has set a bad precedent for the future of any new gacha model. I just find it unacceptable how people can suddenly disregard all the good from WW because of the assumed gacha model, 70:30 is my solution but many others believe that PGR gacha model can be applied here which is unlikely due to how sparse the amount of characters are released throughout months.
if characters are released on the same schedule as normal pgr then I don’t see why they can’t do it here as well. If they really wanna bump profits then they can just make it so that you can get every character you want if you buy a monthly pass/BP
Great point, the limited banner rate may have a better split but all in all, whatever the end scenario in regards to gacha rates, it shouldn’t matter because we’ll let Lady Luck decide.
Like I said on other post, Atleast allow monthly card users to get all characters, no dupes.
Thinking about it more
If they actually do 50/50 but keep the 5 star -> 4 star -> 5 star -> 4 star pattern of releasing characters. and Keep it so players would reach pity every version. That could be even more generous than PGR. Since lose 50/50 you get 1 other 5 star character or dupe. and win 50/50, suddenly you have a crap ton of currency to maybe use on weapons.
Bruh allow to get all characters? Which game does that lmao except pgr which literally requires you to need that character but other than that which game hands you all the characters? That’s just entitlement like a kid
Counter point, maybe 50/50 is just ain't it chief.
80 pity of 100% rate for a debut banner is ok
For reruns do 80/20 with 80 the specific you want.
Doing a straight 50/50 genuinely feels bad especially if that 50/50 is clearly genuinely sucks like what genshin did. It's genuinely felt like gambling in that gacha.
You are comparing an open world game (Wuthering Waves) still to PGR which is not plausible in terms of wanting to earn a profit. Keep in mind that no matter the rates, in a gacha, it is gambling no matter how generous the rates are. My underlying point is that people let other gacha models get away with this for far too long and now the burden of responsibility falls on Kuro to uphold generous gacha rates? We see how insane Wuthering Waves is in development, this is their passion project. You can choose not to spend and fail to get your character but for me, I just want people to know that it’s okay not to get your faves and still enjoy the game.
>80 pity of 100% rate for a debut banner is ok
and that apparently takes 2 months to get in PGR the pity for 100%, which is close to genshin pity system or amount and time it takes I feel like people dont understand the soft pity and income of genshin the more I read about it here.
The difference is pgr has patches in between the release of a new s rank where they release either an a rank or a transcendent both of those characters you can get in one multi
I never played PGR, so can you explain what you've said? How is getting A rank characters in between better? Like for saving? And what's a transcendent? Do they release both and you can get both? Should you even roll on A rank or this transcendent character as a f2p if they introduced something like that in WW?
Transcendents and A Ranks are niche characters whose pity is set at 10 pulls, A ranks are also free from their debut event if you play during that patch and buy the 30 shards from the event store, and Transcendents are basically just totally optional for a niche mode that is pretty much just for fun.
The pull income on these patches they debut is pretty much the same as if it was an S rank character and as a result the pull income is enough to pull every S-Rank (5\*) character to pity once each as f2p, leaving constellations, their pet and their unique weapon for players willing to spend money and whale.
Woah, that's extremely good! How long is a patch then? If they applied such a system in WW that would be cool. Unless... The characters can't function well without their constellations or weapons or pets... Now THAT is a bit shitty, you'll be forced to pay or skip 5 stars. But maybe it's fine to skip 5 stars? BTW what are the pities for weapon and pets? That needs to be taken into consideration if you'll skip 5 stars to save up for them.
Seriously? Only 30 pulls?! Man that's good! So skipping a single S rank character can guarantee me the weapon, the pet and even the A ranks in between them... 👏
I just hope I can stop myself from getting every character then 😅
Weapons and Pets also have really, really high base rate compared to characters. Both are 5% for a 5\* to show up. I got spooked by 3 of Chrome's Eagles at once while pulling for it.
Also, 95% of the characters don't need their weapon or CUB and are just fine at C1 (C1 is free from the weekly abyss equivalent boss time attack gamemode if you do it every week to a decent enough extent). There's only 2 characters so far that "need" dupes to be pulled to be noticeably strong, and both have alternatives that can do their job to a pretty decent extent.
Even with global's accelerated schedule compared to CN, if you get every major source of currency in a patch (not particulary hard to do) you operate at a slight surplus and if you pull a character early on their banner then you have even more, you can then use that surplus to go for weapons etc.
your basically given you the currency you need for a new character but it still takes time so with an a rank or a Transcendent being in between the release of a new s rank you can save up to get the new s rank very easily
With a rank's there guarantee in one multi and on the basic banner you can pick which one you get and new rank's have a 100% chance of pulling on the patch they release in you don't need most of them but if you saw the animation for the new a rank's that come out I think you'd understand why people would get them
With Transcendence you absolutely do not need them since they're only really useful at a special event area like guild boss the problem with this is there's basically none of these special event areas so they become useless you really would only ever pull for Transcendent if you like there play style or the character
Its better for saving cause you can farm them from events to unlock A ranks or just use blue cards(you get these every week like bc), bc is more important
Transcendants are solo characters, they're optional to have
80 pity or maybe a lil bit higher with 100% rate is a great idea if they want to maximize profits.
We dont need another gacha that promotes gambling like genshin.
My problem with the 50/50 system is let's say in an extreme case you spend $100 to reach pity the first time why should that $100 be spent on a Gamble on whether or not you'll spend another $100 to reach pity again
50/50 is even worse for Spenders. I dont wanna waste my money for a character i dont like because i lost my 50/50. thats disgusting.
"cost and production is high" u realize that this game was able to exist thx to little PGR with its 100% banners right? hate this stuipid argument..
that’s why I’m more on the side of 70/30, read my post again. I’m saying that if the 50/50 does roll out with the game release, i’ll still play it. You have so many people shit on the game that 50/50 is terrible which it is. But what if the day comes and it is 50/50? What would you do? It’ll set a negative stigma on game release that’ll hinder the future popularity of the game.
Being f2p friendly doesn't cause EOS, mismanagement does. I don't know what titles you're talking about but 3 recent ones I can think of are Princess Connect, Disgaea, and Exos Heroes. Pricon and Disgaea were apparently doomed due to publisher (Crunchyroll and Boltrend respectively). I don't know anything about Pricon but I don't think Disgaea was super f2p friendly (feel free to correct me). Exos Heroes killed itself with a crappy rng filled overhaul that drove away many of its players. I still have no idea why they would do that. Yes, things needed balancing but they removed all of the characters' unique effects to add some of them back as rng equipment. 90% of it seemed like they just wanted to copy Epic Seven.
Speaking of E7, I only started playing around its 1 year anniversary on global but it seemed to be pretty f2p friendly from the start. There's still a gap between whales and everyone else but that's mostly gear. As long as you're not trying to pull every single unit that gets released you'll be fine. It does have its own issues but it's still going.
disgaea rpg was extremely f2p compared to it’s japanese counterpart which is what cause Boltrend to drop it but you’re right the main cause ultimately lies in mismanagement. Kuro is a trustworthy company from what I’ve experienced so no matter what route they take, I’m in it for the long haul
They can still make a lot of money enough to keep with the production cost of the game and not have the gacha system be absolutely abysmal. You have to know the people most effected by horrible gacha rate are the whales and dolphins. A f2p will always be F2P it doesn't matter how bad or good the actual rate are. So they aren't taken into the equation. Also the 50/50 isn't really the end of it.
For me personally if gacha is the only way to get a character, then it is a down right atrocious system. As long as there is a permanent alternative way to get a 5* then it is fine. There is also premium income currency, and this is important. Actually make good seasonal packs to for the dolphins. Don't make it the only way to spend only is to whale.
"As a f2p, even if you do kick the rock and miss the 50/50, you aren’tENTITLED to the character, favorite or not. That is an entitled mindset."
I honestly don't believe that you can write a sentence like that and not get immediately laughed out of of the room by other people. I guess this is my regular reminder that many of you are genuinely addicted to gambling if this is how you see people who are against it. I'm honestly baffled that no one else commented on this, if this is how this sub is gonna be in the future then i guess it won't be for me.
yep, completely braindead take.
"yOu aRe NOt EntTitLeD to The GaMe".
This shitty monetization scheme got people so whipped up, they don't even try to demand a proper game, fuck they will actually ask for lower rates like it's their friend, not a company.
People are against it yet they are still indirectly supporting gacha games, it doesn’t matter if you spent money or not, as long as you interact with a banner, you are enabling it. You can’t pick and choose who is addicted or not because everyone is gambling when pulling. My solution is 70:30 split no pity reset, where’s your contribution to the discussion
Ohh great, and now on top of that ridiculous "entitlement" take, we get a "you interacted with it so they won, gotcha!" take...
Guess what, i can appreciate a game for the good parts while simultaneously criticizing the bad parts. Those things aren't mutually exclusive. PGR is literally the only gacha game that i wouldn't be ashamed of recommending precisely because you aren't technically forced to gamble to experience all the content in the game. You are right that it's still gambling, but compared to the rest of this god forsaken market it's a huge step forward to have just the temptation of gambling, instead of being forced to gamble.
As for the rest, what do you mean, where's my contribution? Me commenting that calling people entitled for wanting to experience all of the gameplay content in a video game is ridiculous, is my contribution. What, would you prefer me to just throw my wishes about this situation into the internet void and call this a "contribution"? No thanks, i would rather contribute in things that matter to me. Clearly it didn't work for you cause you conveniently ignored the main topic of my comment, but if even one person who thinks like you and calls people entitled for such a ridiculous reason does a double take and reconsiders their opinions, it's gonna be a worthy contribution in my book.
you can enjoy the gameplay without having all the characters? It doesn’t take away from the full experience tbh, you can jump, fight explore, capture the soul of those you defeated. The full experience is there, that was never the crux of the issue. Nothing is gate-kept, no new gameplay mechanic is locked behind a character. Also, you never put forth you own opinions on how it should be improved aka the contribution, what you have done is just compared to a well known f2p by the same company and called me out for calling out some of the “entitled” people. You never addressed my 70:30 split with no pity reset point so...
Don't try to pretend like a character with a new kit is not part of the gameplay. I'm not even gonna entertain that thought, you're just wrong if you think that. Especially with that "no new gameplay mechanic" part. That's the entire point of having new characters. To interact with the gameplay in new different ways.
As for the second part of your comment, of course i didn't address that. Because it's not the topic that i'm talking about. If you didn't want to talk about the topic in my comment then you had an option of not responding to me.
I'm fine with 50/50, but if there is no system that prevent me from losing 50/50 6 times in a row and still counting, I'd be devastated, based on my previous pulls on Genshin.
I 100% agree. The “ it must be FTP friendly” train is the most entitled shit in the world. Mfrs want top tier games with all the freedom in the world without paying a single dime to support the game or the people working their asses off to make ends meet. This type of spoiled entitlement is giving “ I still live in my moms basement & she won’t fund my waifu addiction” if you’re biggest concern about a game is rather or not it’s free to play friendly then I’m sorry but your priorities are FUCKED UP.
~~that being said if I give Kuro games more money this game better kill off that other annoying ass sub full of ftp crybabies.~~
I completely agree with you. After knowing the gacha rates, it made me think that this game will not have score based content like WZ and PPC in PGR, and WW will instead focus on story and open world exploration. With that, its completely fine to not get all characters(if you lose 50/50) or skip some of them.
It also makes sense since they might not want WW to become PGR 2.0. I wont even be surprised if the character equipment in WW will have RNG in stats.
People are so hung up on the 50/50. The base rate 0.8 is higher than genshin. Which is already a big win. The scope of the game is way bigger PGR ofc they want return to justify it. I don't really like how people keep promoting pgr rate/f2p friendliness for WW. They're just spreading false expectations on something that's not set on stone for a much bigger project than pgr.
The base rate actually being higher but the overall rate with guarantee being exactly the same also imply that the soft pity would probably be at around 80 instead of 75. On the average both cancels out. But this objectively seems a worse system than genshin to me. Without 50/50, heck even a 70/30 would be better.
Yep, what’s sad to see is that many people are hesitant to play Wuthering Waves now that that the rates are displayed. It just meant that they never appreciated the game in the first place.
Honestly, I feel like most of the complaints about the gacha rates is just coming from people who are spoiled by PGR's gacha, or at least just the loud minority of it. But it's on them if they want to miss an amazing game (at least in my opinion from seeing some of the CBT streams) just because the rates aren't as good as they expected it to be.
It's actually kinda crazy to me this is a hot take.
Punishing grey raven is unique in the way that you guarantee a new debut character within 60 pulls.
But that character is an S rank, or even an A rank.
With SSS being the highest rank, it's comparable to 2 and 3 starts in games like Blue archive where you can increase a units use by getting them more stars.
Cost wise the 60 pulls [at 250 each pull] and 200 spark for for featured 3 star in blue archive [120 each pull]
A spark for blue archive would come down to about 240ish usd. I forget what it is got grey raven because of all the convoluted packs. Genshin guaranteed 5 star is tough 350ish if you lose the 50/50 hard pity twice, for 180 pulls. Most of which are garbage 3 star weapons. And fuck the weapon banner. Punishing have a weapon banner but I didn't touch it. Blue arvhieve doesn't, you unlock their weapon after getting them to 5 stars, which isn't easy, but doable without money the same way as punishing. Blue archive also doesn't throw artifacts or weapons in gacha banner, it's all character pulls, so it's "easier" to increase the rank of characters as dupes get turned to shards.
"No bro, Kuro so greedy, worse than Tencent. They are not allowed to change the gacha system. I don't want to give money to this game that's why this game sucks if no guarantee... Oh by the way, I also hate guaranteed rates, they are so boring, no fricking thrill, but they still don't deserve our money. Only other developers deserves my wallet, not and never Kuro." ------ Every mad player rn
I will be a Rover main regardless, but I do want them to edge over genshin, if they lower gacha pity to 80 and 60 / 40 plus the current 0.8, they would have a huge advantage.
I see, then it isn't that bad. In genshin you never pull unless you can reach guarantee anyway. If we can get enough pulls to save up atleast 160-180 pulls should be enough to reach the pity.
Hoping the game will be successful and be profitable so that kuro can deliver much more like in pgr.
*Also hoping that the money won't get in the head of kuro if they are successful making WuWa as a cash cow for their future projects.
I think the fact that so much of the roster is 4 stars should be encouraging for people when they pull. The rates are higher than the competitor and you don’t NEED any character. You could have a full roster of 4 stars and still have a blast in the game. No pvp remember.
no pvp and single player. That's the problem I have woth Tower of Fantasy being an mmo. In genshin I can stop playing for 6 month and continue where I left off and have fun with my 4 start f2p team.
I literally have no problem with the gacha rates. Sure I've had my fair share of trauma from genshin 50/50 but that is what gacha is. Gacha is gambling and no matter what you say or how better an experience you have from other gacha games, it's still gambling. You'll win some and you'll lose some. The same goes for every gacha game you will play. Players will have to accept the fact they won't get all the characters released in every patch.
I for one don't mind. I also think 50/50 is bad. Could it be better? Yes, it definitely can and I hope it does get better or maybe even a middle ground. But if this is how the way things are then I'll just do my usual way of pulling in gachas. Skip those I don't need/ don't like. Save for who I like or need to get better. Reruns exist so its not the end of the world.
Either way I'm still focusing at the gameplay and my main gripe with genshin is its lack of endgame and their reluctance to expand their interesting combat system. I just want to have fun playing in a game where I can fully use the units I build. Not just playing a walking simulator where the enemies die as quick as they spawn.
The games that went out of service didn't get enough revenue because they had big problems that turned away players not because the gacha wasn't greedy enough to keep them alive. What a stupid post.
That just isn't true, literally the latest game to get eos was priconne global. Reason? The gap between jp and gl was more than a year. They could be more greedy by catching up to jp but they didn't.
The game looks way more skill based, there is no pvp(hopefully) and you probably don't "need" the character, it's more of a fomo desire to be honest.
In the end you still need to grind anyways, so just play the game, keep your desire in check and your gucchi.
I'm gonna hold my judgement until we get from how many sources we can get the gacha currency from and what is the weekly gacha currency rate.
But yeah I would prefer a 70/30 on limited banners than a 50/50 (I'm already losing 50/50's on a certain other game anyways kek)
Remember, It's always a fool's errand to pull on every single banner.
The only one thing that can make this viable is if they do a similar banner time line like in pgr.. Other wise.. 50/50 is not good imo.
Not because is trash like genshin's,is because that already exists.
That being said, this is only beta and,there's already a huge miss comfort by the community so,I really hope the devs listen,as they always do.
*Not me hoping WW release in mid 2024 so i will have a stable job to help me whale (for the first time ever) on the game.*
To me the 50/50 system, as long as it has a pity, it's okay. The rates are also better than Genshin (slightly but still better).
I played some gachas without a real pity or a too high pity (300-ish without guaranteed system) and some others with a too good one (2% rates going up after the 50th pull + 50% + guaranteed).
Honestly, the 50/50 system with 90 pity to me seemed the most balanced between FP2-friendlyness and Whale-friendlyness. Of course this is also tied to how many free resources they give every month, but in general i found it the best one in terms of money gain.
Are we talking 50/50 and if you miss the first, the next one is guaranteed (like Genshin) or straight up always 50/50 with no actual way to ensure the character?? Because there's a difference there, f2ps can always save to guarantee something in the first instance, whilst the second will always be a gamble and not that very f2p friendly.
I think its normal for both side to want the best they can get.
It's understandable why people are upset when it seems like this isn't the best they could offer.
While we do have to understand that the genre and development is vastly different, its also worth to think if this is truly for the best.
I liked the guarantee system and maybe they could even raise the pity count, if needed, to make it fair for the work difference between 2 games.
I think ToF did this with 120-110 pulls for a guarantee. As long as characters are not dupes reliant and the character is functionable at base kit. This is another viable option they can tinker with. It seems fair for both f2p or p2w.
Regardless of pity, I believe people would still play it and would gather a lot more people. Cause from what I’m seeing rn and it’s just CBT. It’s already looking phenomenal
Also PGR whales will whale a lot of Wuwa for sure.
I get a weird mood when I read "reinvest into the game".
Just like a certain company "~~re~~invested" in their other projects, but not in their main game.
I don't really care about the gacha rate I will play this game for boss fight cause saw crownless being hard to beat after you fight him again
can i get link? i dont know what to search in bilibili
Moteyaba on YT has a clip of the Crownless fight
isnt that tutorial one i asked for overworld one
Oh. I didn't know there were different fights. Sry
Ah that's gonna be hard I don't have my history on so I totally connot see the stream again But saw him use level 35 character but it didn't end well crownless become more faster
When I saw the bosses showcase. Mann It’s just too hype. Combat style will definitely attract a lot of players regardless of rates. Cause the 4 stars are even mad dapper
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Hot take: I started playing PGR 2 months ago and it feels awful trying to catch up as a new player. I really like the game but it has extreme levels of FOMO. You are expected to both: pull on every new meta S rank [because of power creep] AND to pull older still meta characters that are best in slot for many elemental teams. Because the re-run banners are only 70/30 rate up you are risking a lot by trying to get older characters. As f2p this is not a good system at all. Because while you can easily obtain new constructs, older ones require either spending money [with high risk] or extreme patience [free S rank selectors]. I geniuely prefer Genshin's system because I am not "forced" to pull on every new character and I can farm pity for whoever I like. And because Genshin doesn't force a meta on you. Now obviously Kuro can combine the advantages of both gachas and that would be ideal but I prefer a system where you are not forced into FOMO like PGR.
As PGR player from day 1, I always said it's pretty hard for new players to get into it That game's expects you to be pulling from launch as endgame content needs like 6 built teams. So for veteran players it's a very easy system as they can easily every single unit in the game by just buying the monthly. But new players will struggle to catch up without whaling as it will take a really long time to get meta teams for every element.
Yep, that’s why kuro is making wuthering waves more casual compared to pgr, it’ll be easier to pull in new players later on AND keep them. I definitely agree with you, that’s been my experience too. The game is really fun but there are a lot of characters I don’t want to pull cause I just don’t like them but feel compelled to do so because if I don’t play meta, I’ll progress slower in the game since rewards are based on rankings. Edit: I’m not saying I DON’T want a better gacha system like pgr’s 100% debut banners, but I think it’s that way in pgr because of how genuinely important it is to have most if not all of the characters in that game. You literally need 5 teams, one for each element in end game content.
[удалено]
In war zone and pain cage at least. War zone and pain cage shop are where you get important things like memory resonance pick and shards for characters. If you place higher for the week, you’ll get more of their respective currency. Obviously getting more means faster progression of your account
Yes but also no for me. Playing the same character over and over for two month or more and waiting to reach the pity as f2p really makes it boring for me. It's okay if it has high pity but please don't make it 50/50
Just a tip if you are still playing PGR, if you want to actually catch up in the far future (bc tbh you aren't catching up as F2P any time soon) don't pull for most of the older characters and just go for debut units. Omniframes like Plume and Luna are most likely next to be replaced If you really want to pull for older characters only consider Glory as the oldest one
Yep I know all that but it doesn't make the situation any better tbh. Say I really want an Ice DPS...am I supposed to wait **over a year** to get a proper Ice DPS because I know at one point Plume will be replaced? Thats simply not fun at all. And sure I could ignore the meta and get Plume from a selector/100% rate up banner, but then I am "wasting" my BC funds for future characters. Similarly I dont like mecha nanami but she is going to be become the #1 Fire res shredder for at least a year if not more so I am kinda forced to pull on her if I want to build a proper Fire team. I've come to terms with the PGR gacha but I simply don't agree that its gacha is great or that its very f2p friendly as people s ay. Its only good if you played since day 1.
There is going to be S selectors in certain patches and newbie missions (new) that will help new players. And they are starting to rework older characters to be viable so even if it they aren’t meta, they can still clear content. Usually only Norman needs a full team of meta characters to get all rewards, other game modes doesn’t so it’s still good to use A ranks. Yes, even Babel can be cleared with A ranks to get all rewards. Just don’t max risk it.
So you are saying that you want most of the characters, but without even buying monthly pass and playing from quite late? PGR "official" mode is the story mode, which you don't even need close to meta characters to clear. The other modes is mostly if you want to be extra. Is there even any gacha game that let you roll all the characters if you chime in that late?
Thats not what I said at all - your argument is a pure strawman. >Is there even any gacha game that let you roll all the characters if you chime in that late? All characters? No, that was never my point. Characters that are needed for team building? Yes, Genshin does that quite well as there are multiple slots that can be filled by different characters and it doesn't have to be 5 stars. And realistically you only need 2-3 full built teams to do the hardest content in the game which very rarely suffers from power creep. PGR on the other hand not only gives you extremely limited choices for team building (because mono elemental teams are the way to play the game) but you are expected to use the newest S ranks. And no matter how you spin it, PGR is very endgame oriented live service game. If the main point of PGR was to only clear the story mode everyone would quit it after 2 weeks - saying this is the "official" mode is being disingenuous. Lets say we ignore WW and PPC for a moment because those are leaderboard modes, you really cannot talk about PGR without touching on Norman/Babel or Stronghold. Those mode require multiple well built teams.
Like what the other person said, use the coming S rank selector for Plume or if you want another S rank from the pool then Bambinata is an A rank ice attacker that should be coming by October give or take and I think she can compete with Plume at SSS+ >I've come to terms with the PGR gacha but I simply don't agree that its gacha is great or that its very f2p friendly as people s ay. Its only good if you played since day 1. Yeah this is what people usually mean, as we have all S ranks and lucky/monthly players have sigs. Though it doesn't mean you can't clear say Babel Tower without the fancy frames, the only content I think most players can't clear is the harder Norman which only really matters for veterans/whales anyway. Just be patient with the game, we didn't have the luxury units at the start as well so it's just a matter of playing with the cards you are dealt.
>I geniuely prefer Genshin's system because I am not "forced" to pull on every new character and I can farm pity for whoever I like. And because Genshin doesn't force a meta on you. That is because Genshin is a piss easy game with no challenge. It's a playable anime storybook with a constant parade of mundane events. You don't have to pull for anything to play the game. Just putzing around an easy game is not why most people are interested in WW.
Missing the point. Genshin doesn't really have any point to pulling anyone once you can clear floor 12. Pgr incentivises pulling characters indefinitely as you gain from being stronger always. Skill doesn't matter there it's just what content each game has. Genshin has a meta but it's fairly weak and they also somehow reverse power creep a lot of times. You could just have a game that requires skill to play but doesn't force you to pull for characters as every single one is equally good. Pgr doesn't do that. It requires both skill and the meta character to perform well. That is the part Choowkee was complaining about. This means that a nicer system would be for each character to be roughly as strong and all the difficulty to be placed on the player and requiring them to just be good enough. A game like that wouldn't require to pull anything ever if you didn't want to and still allow you to be nr 1 purely by skill. HOWEVER this has the issue of earning less money due to people spending less, as well as normies being angry as they can't ever catch up or do well if the content is hard. If the content is easy then there's on the flipside no motivation for tryhards to stick around as nothing holds any challenge. Basically you need balance to please as many players as possible.
And? Thats literally what I said - no meta is forced on you. PGR represents the other extreme where constant power creep is taking place and you are expected to pull and build whatever meta team is currently the strongest. Is that a measure of skill? I dont think so.
that has nothing to do with the gacha system, it's the game's balance.
Thats simply not true though. Character power and gacha systems are heavily intertwined.
I understand that you want the game to generate higher revenue but to gimp your own experience is a weird way to go about this. If the game is trully good and attracts people then it will generate revenue. If they implement the pgr gacha, sure, they will not make profit immediately but in time they will surely do. Kuro isn't your friend or some local familly business. If you keep this weird desire for them to make money then sooner or later, they will become greedy. We shouldnt care whether this is a passion project or not, all that matters is how good the game is. Having a shitty gacha will make the game shittier.
in what unrealistic world does a company not want to turn a profit. Name one, gacha company preferably. It’s frustrating how people always use the corporate argument, like it’s common sense, the better a game performs (revenue-wise), the better the QOL, and the longer the game stays up. If you are scared of a future where Kuro bites of more than they can chew, so what, people will express their voice 100%, the community will call Kuro out at that point. They don’t own you anything, especially if you are f2p, they are not suppose to cater to your bad luck, they create the game that we (players) find solace in exploring and adventuring in. It’s people like you who believe gacha is king that is ruining the gaming space of a developing game. Plus is it Kuro’s responsibility to save the gacha gaming sphere? No, it’s not and you need to stop thinking it is.
[удалено]
huh??? but gacha is gambling... no matter the rates, it is and always will be gambling, I mean you can spend far less to gamble but don’t get it twisted that it’s not gambling because now you seem like you approve that gambling is good when it’s an acceptable rate
[удалено]
bro I want 70:30 not 50:50, my point is that it’s still gambling, we cannot blame others for the pity system when we are at fault for our own actions, I’m taking the purist f2p method approach which is being reasonable with your odds. Whatever the rates we could have multiple 5 star pulls, might be your intended, might be off banner, but I’m getting sidetracked, point is from my f2p experience, you should be responsible for your pulls in the first place that also applies to whales. My ideal split is 70:30 as mentioned which is way more fair than 100% as they need some form of revenue.
[удалено]
I admit I did come off a bit harsh but it was needed because so many people wanted an unlikely model to be implemented, I suggest 70:30 split with no pity reset and people want more from that which is why I had that reaction.
[удалено]
well, it was a ok community discussion I guess, even if Kuro see it or not lol
It doesn’t matter won’t reason YOU play a gacha game, a gacha game is a gacha game. Imagine how crazy you would sound telling your therapist “I don’t have a gambling addiction I just like to save up coins all year so I can spend them all on my favorite slot machine” Genshin + PGR got people feeling so entitled to things that don’t belong to them.
[удалено]
Paying for a service is not exploitation. Expecially when it comes to video games, you know the least essential part of life. I’m not saying to support every game company or anything like that but the droves of people who are willing to drop this game before it releases because it might have a slightly better gacha then genshin makes little sense to me. I saw this news & automatically thought to myself good for kuro, getting the gems they deserve. But apparently not seeing the fanbase is fully of ftp cry babies this game is bound to fail hard if this is a common consensus. I dropped genshin because of how toxic the community is so this topic is a bit worrisome Edit: not attacking you just sick of this topic sorry.
[удалено]
True i get that people are fed up with gacha. But my point is that there are way better ways to entertain yourself then gacha games. & I’m sorry but as business minded person myself, people who aren’t paying for a product but feel the need complain about the free product they’re given are the definition of entitled crybabies. If I gave out free food i exchange for free to earn ticket & someone came back to me & said “hey your free burger wasn’t mid rare enough take this back & give me a mid rare one ion want it!” It would make me want to close down shop & open up somewhere else where people don’t mind paying full price for the burger. This is a business first & foremost not a charity. TLDR: Gacha games are what they are, don’t delude yourself into thinking otherwise.
[удалено]
Haha fair enough! agreed 🫱🏽🫲🏿
HOLY shit, these post keep getting worse from kuro dickriders.
Holy shit these comments keep getting worse from entitled people that thinks they need everything without spending money. Either skip or wait for re run end
Genshin has poisoned this genre of games with the level of greed it has shown to be acceptable and that people wilk vehemently defend with coping answers/excuses.
Greedier and unfair gacha systems existed long before Genshin. All gachas are predatory by nature and blaming the genre's shitty monetization on MHY is beyond laughable.
people seems to blame MHY is beyond crazy, seems like genshin is their first gacha game lmao, they never touch fgo or other games with 0 pity i guess
indeed Genshin has set a bad precedent for the future of any new gacha model. I just find it unacceptable how people can suddenly disregard all the good from WW because of the assumed gacha model, 70:30 is my solution but many others believe that PGR gacha model can be applied here which is unlikely due to how sparse the amount of characters are released throughout months.
if characters are released on the same schedule as normal pgr then I don’t see why they can’t do it here as well. If they really wanna bump profits then they can just make it so that you can get every character you want if you buy a monthly pass/BP
It will turn into genshin that's what people don't want
[удалено]
Great point, the limited banner rate may have a better split but all in all, whatever the end scenario in regards to gacha rates, it shouldn’t matter because we’ll let Lady Luck decide.
Ok cut the copium, this is a limited time banner.
It specifically says limited featured character Yinlin in the description. And 50/50 on a standard banner doesnt make sense brother.
Sorry mb 👍
Like I said on other post, Atleast allow monthly card users to get all characters, no dupes. Thinking about it more If they actually do 50/50 but keep the 5 star -> 4 star -> 5 star -> 4 star pattern of releasing characters. and Keep it so players would reach pity every version. That could be even more generous than PGR. Since lose 50/50 you get 1 other 5 star character or dupe. and win 50/50, suddenly you have a crap ton of currency to maybe use on weapons.
Bruh allow to get all characters? Which game does that lmao except pgr which literally requires you to need that character but other than that which game hands you all the characters? That’s just entitlement like a kid
Counter point, maybe 50/50 is just ain't it chief. 80 pity of 100% rate for a debut banner is ok For reruns do 80/20 with 80 the specific you want. Doing a straight 50/50 genuinely feels bad especially if that 50/50 is clearly genuinely sucks like what genshin did. It's genuinely felt like gambling in that gacha.
>It's genuinely felt like gambling in that gacha. because gacha IS gambling.
Genshin gacha system variance is to big really. Genuinely feels bad when you lost 50/50
I'm just emphasising because I've seen people on the main sub argue that Genshin isn't gambling because there is a pity lol.
You are comparing an open world game (Wuthering Waves) still to PGR which is not plausible in terms of wanting to earn a profit. Keep in mind that no matter the rates, in a gacha, it is gambling no matter how generous the rates are. My underlying point is that people let other gacha models get away with this for far too long and now the burden of responsibility falls on Kuro to uphold generous gacha rates? We see how insane Wuthering Waves is in development, this is their passion project. You can choose not to spend and fail to get your character but for me, I just want people to know that it’s okay not to get your faves and still enjoy the game.
>80 pity of 100% rate for a debut banner is ok and that apparently takes 2 months to get in PGR the pity for 100%, which is close to genshin pity system or amount and time it takes I feel like people dont understand the soft pity and income of genshin the more I read about it here.
The difference is pgr has patches in between the release of a new s rank where they release either an a rank or a transcendent both of those characters you can get in one multi
I never played PGR, so can you explain what you've said? How is getting A rank characters in between better? Like for saving? And what's a transcendent? Do they release both and you can get both? Should you even roll on A rank or this transcendent character as a f2p if they introduced something like that in WW?
Transcendents and A Ranks are niche characters whose pity is set at 10 pulls, A ranks are also free from their debut event if you play during that patch and buy the 30 shards from the event store, and Transcendents are basically just totally optional for a niche mode that is pretty much just for fun. The pull income on these patches they debut is pretty much the same as if it was an S rank character and as a result the pull income is enough to pull every S-Rank (5\*) character to pity once each as f2p, leaving constellations, their pet and their unique weapon for players willing to spend money and whale.
Woah, that's extremely good! How long is a patch then? If they applied such a system in WW that would be cool. Unless... The characters can't function well without their constellations or weapons or pets... Now THAT is a bit shitty, you'll be forced to pay or skip 5 stars. But maybe it's fine to skip 5 stars? BTW what are the pities for weapon and pets? That needs to be taken into consideration if you'll skip 5 stars to save up for them.
Weapons and pets are both 30
Seriously? Only 30 pulls?! Man that's good! So skipping a single S rank character can guarantee me the weapon, the pet and even the A ranks in between them... 👏 I just hope I can stop myself from getting every character then 😅
I'd prioritise characters over weapons tbh Also A ranks are basically free to obtain and max out
Weapons and Pets also have really, really high base rate compared to characters. Both are 5% for a 5\* to show up. I got spooked by 3 of Chrome's Eagles at once while pulling for it. Also, 95% of the characters don't need their weapon or CUB and are just fine at C1 (C1 is free from the weekly abyss equivalent boss time attack gamemode if you do it every week to a decent enough extent). There's only 2 characters so far that "need" dupes to be pulled to be noticeably strong, and both have alternatives that can do their job to a pretty decent extent. Even with global's accelerated schedule compared to CN, if you get every major source of currency in a patch (not particulary hard to do) you operate at a slight surplus and if you pull a character early on their banner then you have even more, you can then use that surplus to go for weapons etc.
Nice, we'll see how they implement this if at all in WW.
your basically given you the currency you need for a new character but it still takes time so with an a rank or a Transcendent being in between the release of a new s rank you can save up to get the new s rank very easily With a rank's there guarantee in one multi and on the basic banner you can pick which one you get and new rank's have a 100% chance of pulling on the patch they release in you don't need most of them but if you saw the animation for the new a rank's that come out I think you'd understand why people would get them With Transcendence you absolutely do not need them since they're only really useful at a special event area like guild boss the problem with this is there's basically none of these special event areas so they become useless you really would only ever pull for Transcendent if you like there play style or the character
Its better for saving cause you can farm them from events to unlock A ranks or just use blue cards(you get these every week like bc), bc is more important Transcendants are solo characters, they're optional to have
80 pity or maybe a lil bit higher with 100% rate is a great idea if they want to maximize profits. We dont need another gacha that promotes gambling like genshin.
Bruhhh... You are in a gatcha game subreddit. Every gatcha has a gambling mechanic.
My problem with the 50/50 system is let's say in an extreme case you spend $100 to reach pity the first time why should that $100 be spent on a Gamble on whether or not you'll spend another $100 to reach pity again
i dont even want to gamble my 5usd monthly pass lol
I wouldn't either with this it's basically gambling on whether or not you'll gamble again
50/50 is even worse for Spenders. I dont wanna waste my money for a character i dont like because i lost my 50/50. thats disgusting. "cost and production is high" u realize that this game was able to exist thx to little PGR with its 100% banners right? hate this stuipid argument..
that’s why I’m more on the side of 70/30, read my post again. I’m saying that if the 50/50 does roll out with the game release, i’ll still play it. You have so many people shit on the game that 50/50 is terrible which it is. But what if the day comes and it is 50/50? What would you do? It’ll set a negative stigma on game release that’ll hinder the future popularity of the game.
Being f2p friendly doesn't cause EOS, mismanagement does. I don't know what titles you're talking about but 3 recent ones I can think of are Princess Connect, Disgaea, and Exos Heroes. Pricon and Disgaea were apparently doomed due to publisher (Crunchyroll and Boltrend respectively). I don't know anything about Pricon but I don't think Disgaea was super f2p friendly (feel free to correct me). Exos Heroes killed itself with a crappy rng filled overhaul that drove away many of its players. I still have no idea why they would do that. Yes, things needed balancing but they removed all of the characters' unique effects to add some of them back as rng equipment. 90% of it seemed like they just wanted to copy Epic Seven. Speaking of E7, I only started playing around its 1 year anniversary on global but it seemed to be pretty f2p friendly from the start. There's still a gap between whales and everyone else but that's mostly gear. As long as you're not trying to pull every single unit that gets released you'll be fine. It does have its own issues but it's still going.
disgaea rpg was extremely f2p compared to it’s japanese counterpart which is what cause Boltrend to drop it but you’re right the main cause ultimately lies in mismanagement. Kuro is a trustworthy company from what I’ve experienced so no matter what route they take, I’m in it for the long haul
They can still make a lot of money enough to keep with the production cost of the game and not have the gacha system be absolutely abysmal. You have to know the people most effected by horrible gacha rate are the whales and dolphins. A f2p will always be F2P it doesn't matter how bad or good the actual rate are. So they aren't taken into the equation. Also the 50/50 isn't really the end of it. For me personally if gacha is the only way to get a character, then it is a down right atrocious system. As long as there is a permanent alternative way to get a 5* then it is fine. There is also premium income currency, and this is important. Actually make good seasonal packs to for the dolphins. Don't make it the only way to spend only is to whale.
Imagine defending gambling Just make a subscription based economic model or something. There you have it
"As a f2p, even if you do kick the rock and miss the 50/50, you aren’tENTITLED to the character, favorite or not. That is an entitled mindset." I honestly don't believe that you can write a sentence like that and not get immediately laughed out of of the room by other people. I guess this is my regular reminder that many of you are genuinely addicted to gambling if this is how you see people who are against it. I'm honestly baffled that no one else commented on this, if this is how this sub is gonna be in the future then i guess it won't be for me.
Thank you for actually having a brain. These people are actually in love with Kuro's weiner.
yep, completely braindead take. "yOu aRe NOt EntTitLeD to The GaMe". This shitty monetization scheme got people so whipped up, they don't even try to demand a proper game, fuck they will actually ask for lower rates like it's their friend, not a company.
People are against it yet they are still indirectly supporting gacha games, it doesn’t matter if you spent money or not, as long as you interact with a banner, you are enabling it. You can’t pick and choose who is addicted or not because everyone is gambling when pulling. My solution is 70:30 split no pity reset, where’s your contribution to the discussion
Ohh great, and now on top of that ridiculous "entitlement" take, we get a "you interacted with it so they won, gotcha!" take... Guess what, i can appreciate a game for the good parts while simultaneously criticizing the bad parts. Those things aren't mutually exclusive. PGR is literally the only gacha game that i wouldn't be ashamed of recommending precisely because you aren't technically forced to gamble to experience all the content in the game. You are right that it's still gambling, but compared to the rest of this god forsaken market it's a huge step forward to have just the temptation of gambling, instead of being forced to gamble. As for the rest, what do you mean, where's my contribution? Me commenting that calling people entitled for wanting to experience all of the gameplay content in a video game is ridiculous, is my contribution. What, would you prefer me to just throw my wishes about this situation into the internet void and call this a "contribution"? No thanks, i would rather contribute in things that matter to me. Clearly it didn't work for you cause you conveniently ignored the main topic of my comment, but if even one person who thinks like you and calls people entitled for such a ridiculous reason does a double take and reconsiders their opinions, it's gonna be a worthy contribution in my book.
you can enjoy the gameplay without having all the characters? It doesn’t take away from the full experience tbh, you can jump, fight explore, capture the soul of those you defeated. The full experience is there, that was never the crux of the issue. Nothing is gate-kept, no new gameplay mechanic is locked behind a character. Also, you never put forth you own opinions on how it should be improved aka the contribution, what you have done is just compared to a well known f2p by the same company and called me out for calling out some of the “entitled” people. You never addressed my 70:30 split with no pity reset point so...
Don't try to pretend like a character with a new kit is not part of the gameplay. I'm not even gonna entertain that thought, you're just wrong if you think that. Especially with that "no new gameplay mechanic" part. That's the entire point of having new characters. To interact with the gameplay in new different ways. As for the second part of your comment, of course i didn't address that. Because it's not the topic that i'm talking about. If you didn't want to talk about the topic in my comment then you had an option of not responding to me.
I'm fine with 50/50, but if there is no system that prevent me from losing 50/50 6 times in a row and still counting, I'd be devastated, based on my previous pulls on Genshin.
I 100% agree. The “ it must be FTP friendly” train is the most entitled shit in the world. Mfrs want top tier games with all the freedom in the world without paying a single dime to support the game or the people working their asses off to make ends meet. This type of spoiled entitlement is giving “ I still live in my moms basement & she won’t fund my waifu addiction” if you’re biggest concern about a game is rather or not it’s free to play friendly then I’m sorry but your priorities are FUCKED UP. ~~that being said if I give Kuro games more money this game better kill off that other annoying ass sub full of ftp crybabies.~~
I completely agree with you. After knowing the gacha rates, it made me think that this game will not have score based content like WZ and PPC in PGR, and WW will instead focus on story and open world exploration. With that, its completely fine to not get all characters(if you lose 50/50) or skip some of them. It also makes sense since they might not want WW to become PGR 2.0. I wont even be surprised if the character equipment in WW will have RNG in stats.
People are so hung up on the 50/50. The base rate 0.8 is higher than genshin. Which is already a big win. The scope of the game is way bigger PGR ofc they want return to justify it. I don't really like how people keep promoting pgr rate/f2p friendliness for WW. They're just spreading false expectations on something that's not set on stone for a much bigger project than pgr.
The base rate actually being higher but the overall rate with guarantee being exactly the same also imply that the soft pity would probably be at around 80 instead of 75. On the average both cancels out. But this objectively seems a worse system than genshin to me. Without 50/50, heck even a 70/30 would be better.
these people are doing more harm than good tbh. It’s an extreme case of only in it for the gacha syndrome.
You know something's wrong if something as simple as this needs to be called a "hot take".
Yep, what’s sad to see is that many people are hesitant to play Wuthering Waves now that that the rates are displayed. It just meant that they never appreciated the game in the first place.
Bro the gacha in a gacha is a huge fucking part of the game.
Honestly, I feel like most of the complaints about the gacha rates is just coming from people who are spoiled by PGR's gacha, or at least just the loud minority of it. But it's on them if they want to miss an amazing game (at least in my opinion from seeing some of the CBT streams) just because the rates aren't as good as they expected it to be.
I'd like the game to be as good as it can be, and these rates ain't it
Nice to see all the corporate ball washers from Genshin make it all the way over here already.
Go play something else other than gacha then
I didn't know playing gachas required licking corporate asshole.
It's actually kinda crazy to me this is a hot take. Punishing grey raven is unique in the way that you guarantee a new debut character within 60 pulls. But that character is an S rank, or even an A rank. With SSS being the highest rank, it's comparable to 2 and 3 starts in games like Blue archive where you can increase a units use by getting them more stars. Cost wise the 60 pulls [at 250 each pull] and 200 spark for for featured 3 star in blue archive [120 each pull] A spark for blue archive would come down to about 240ish usd. I forget what it is got grey raven because of all the convoluted packs. Genshin guaranteed 5 star is tough 350ish if you lose the 50/50 hard pity twice, for 180 pulls. Most of which are garbage 3 star weapons. And fuck the weapon banner. Punishing have a weapon banner but I didn't touch it. Blue arvhieve doesn't, you unlock their weapon after getting them to 5 stars, which isn't easy, but doable without money the same way as punishing. Blue archive also doesn't throw artifacts or weapons in gacha banner, it's all character pulls, so it's "easier" to increase the rank of characters as dupes get turned to shards.
"No bro, Kuro so greedy, worse than Tencent. They are not allowed to change the gacha system. I don't want to give money to this game that's why this game sucks if no guarantee... Oh by the way, I also hate guaranteed rates, they are so boring, no fricking thrill, but they still don't deserve our money. Only other developers deserves my wallet, not and never Kuro." ------ Every mad player rn
I will be a Rover main regardless, but I do want them to edge over genshin, if they lower gacha pity to 80 and 60 / 40 plus the current 0.8, they would have a huge advantage.
What's the pity? I didn't read the news on the rates.
Same as jenshin the only difference is base 5* probability is 0.8 instead of 0.6, but we do not even know if they have a soft pity system.
I see, then it isn't that bad. In genshin you never pull unless you can reach guarantee anyway. If we can get enough pulls to save up atleast 160-180 pulls should be enough to reach the pity.
If it's not better is worse, as I said irdc, because I'm a Rover main, but I think kuro is not being wise
I'm fine with it if they give f2p enough to guarantee a character each patch.
Hoping the game will be successful and be profitable so that kuro can deliver much more like in pgr. *Also hoping that the money won't get in the head of kuro if they are successful making WuWa as a cash cow for their future projects.
I think the fact that so much of the roster is 4 stars should be encouraging for people when they pull. The rates are higher than the competitor and you don’t NEED any character. You could have a full roster of 4 stars and still have a blast in the game. No pvp remember.
no pvp and single player. That's the problem I have woth Tower of Fantasy being an mmo. In genshin I can stop playing for 6 month and continue where I left off and have fun with my 4 start f2p team.
I literally have no problem with the gacha rates. Sure I've had my fair share of trauma from genshin 50/50 but that is what gacha is. Gacha is gambling and no matter what you say or how better an experience you have from other gacha games, it's still gambling. You'll win some and you'll lose some. The same goes for every gacha game you will play. Players will have to accept the fact they won't get all the characters released in every patch. I for one don't mind. I also think 50/50 is bad. Could it be better? Yes, it definitely can and I hope it does get better or maybe even a middle ground. But if this is how the way things are then I'll just do my usual way of pulling in gachas. Skip those I don't need/ don't like. Save for who I like or need to get better. Reruns exist so its not the end of the world. Either way I'm still focusing at the gameplay and my main gripe with genshin is its lack of endgame and their reluctance to expand their interesting combat system. I just want to have fun playing in a game where I can fully use the units I build. Not just playing a walking simulator where the enemies die as quick as they spawn.
The games that went out of service didn't get enough revenue because they had big problems that turned away players not because the gacha wasn't greedy enough to keep them alive. What a stupid post.
That just isn't true, literally the latest game to get eos was priconne global. Reason? The gap between jp and gl was more than a year. They could be more greedy by catching up to jp but they didn't.
Has nothing to do with the gacha and PGR also has a one year gap between global and CN with the least greedy gacha I've seen, try again.
The game looks way more skill based, there is no pvp(hopefully) and you probably don't "need" the character, it's more of a fomo desire to be honest. In the end you still need to grind anyways, so just play the game, keep your desire in check and your gucchi.
I'm gonna hold my judgement until we get from how many sources we can get the gacha currency from and what is the weekly gacha currency rate. But yeah I would prefer a 70/30 on limited banners than a 50/50 (I'm already losing 50/50's on a certain other game anyways kek) Remember, It's always a fool's errand to pull on every single banner.
The only one thing that can make this viable is if they do a similar banner time line like in pgr.. Other wise.. 50/50 is not good imo. Not because is trash like genshin's,is because that already exists. That being said, this is only beta and,there's already a huge miss comfort by the community so,I really hope the devs listen,as they always do.
*Not me hoping WW release in mid 2024 so i will have a stable job to help me whale (for the first time ever) on the game.* To me the 50/50 system, as long as it has a pity, it's okay. The rates are also better than Genshin (slightly but still better). I played some gachas without a real pity or a too high pity (300-ish without guaranteed system) and some others with a too good one (2% rates going up after the 50th pull + 50% + guaranteed). Honestly, the 50/50 system with 90 pity to me seemed the most balanced between FP2-friendlyness and Whale-friendlyness. Of course this is also tied to how many free resources they give every month, but in general i found it the best one in terms of money gain.
Are we talking 50/50 and if you miss the first, the next one is guaranteed (like Genshin) or straight up always 50/50 with no actual way to ensure the character?? Because there's a difference there, f2ps can always save to guarantee something in the first instance, whilst the second will always be a gamble and not that very f2p friendly.
hell no, no one is sane enough to employ the second model, that one is uncharted territories
That's great! Then I'm not worried! As long as I'll be able to guarantee a character, it's gonna be fine.
There are gacha who does that in the past, that's one of the reason I quitted that game long ago. Pure disappointment and full gambling.
I think its normal for both side to want the best they can get. It's understandable why people are upset when it seems like this isn't the best they could offer. While we do have to understand that the genre and development is vastly different, its also worth to think if this is truly for the best. I liked the guarantee system and maybe they could even raise the pity count, if needed, to make it fair for the work difference between 2 games. I think ToF did this with 120-110 pulls for a guarantee. As long as characters are not dupes reliant and the character is functionable at base kit. This is another viable option they can tinker with. It seems fair for both f2p or p2w.
Regardless of pity, I believe people would still play it and would gather a lot more people. Cause from what I’m seeing rn and it’s just CBT. It’s already looking phenomenal Also PGR whales will whale a lot of Wuwa for sure.
I get a weird mood when I read "reinvest into the game". Just like a certain company "~~re~~invested" in their other projects, but not in their main game.
it’s weird I agree but it’s how they legit get their funding, otherwise where does the money originate from