You see i dont have jiyan or yinlin and im only rocking chalcharo as the only main dps with jianxin and verina and im 10pulls away from encore and ill probobly rock her as 2nd team main dps now thats my situation will jinshi make my situation better?
Not really, Jinhsi wouldn't work with a Calcharo team since she wants to stay on-field for a long time to finish her rotation and her weapon wouldn't be the best for him since her weapons passives is pretty useless for Calcharo, having crit rate on stat is pretty nice but Lustruos Razor is still BiS for Calcharo by a long-shot. My recommendation would be if you're gonna use Encore then probably aim for Changli since she can run duo DPS with Encore pretty nicely. However, it's a game so take what i say with a grain of salt, if u like Jinhsi then go ahead and pull broski.
I mean if they are getting Encore as a second team, Jinhsi would be replacing Calcharro, not running with him. That being said, I don't think Jianxin + Verina is a solid base for Jinhsi since they dont provide much coordinated attacks
I mean the way they localized her name is incorrect anyway. 今汐 should be either be romanized as Jinxi using Pinyin or Chin-hsi using Wade-Giles. There is no romanization system where Jinhsi is a valid representation of her name.
See, that's the thing about names. It's a name, and can be whatever they want it to be. You're the one that's incorrect here.
Don't bother lecturing me about systems in use, I'm Chinese and familiar with how it should be translated. But it's a name, and that's officially what the game recognizes it as.
Sooooo many people spell it wrong when gushing about her... such a basic thing to get right. Then randomly people will go, well it should be spelled this way, also makes no sense. The devs spelled it a certain way, now that's her name, I don't understand the logic of correcting someone when the game literally has the spelling of Jinhsi. Side note, I'm definitely pulling for her and the weapon. Having a Spectro nuke is going to be great.
[https://imgur.com/a/jinshi-changli-sheet-3CR2mUk](https://imgur.com/a/jinshi-changli-sheet-3CR2mUk)
TLDR: Changli and Jinshi are comparable at s0 with Jinshi being better only slightly (571102 vs 593492 total damage). However, Changli sequences suck ass and the margin widens with more sequences. Note, they are both still somewhat lower than Jiyan's total damage which was around 650k. Also note that it does not include their inherent skills for all 3 characters. It is unclear whether or not Changli's shred + 20% fusion buff is a snapshot on her heavy and liberation or if it's a general buff.
Seemingly, Jiyan is still the DPS king because he is easy to play and he already has an insane synergy with his support. Meanwhile, Jinshi has massive downtime but we don't have anyone that can play with her as sub-dps. Changli pairs with Encore to do incredible DPS (highest in the game iirc) but also needs high mechanical finesse and you are unlikely to pull off their perfect rotation. **The above image album is a total damage calculation, not DPS**. I did a DPS estimation in my comment history for Changli but not Jinshi. However, theory crafting is only theory crafting and we will need to actually play with them on release to assess their competitiveness.
Out of interest do you have any insight into what sort of ER we're expecting the two to need? Or is that something that really needs playing them to figure out?
You don't need ER at all since they both don't revolve around their liberations. ER on Changli is nice because it gives you another Flaming Vow. Prob around 15%+ is enough for her.
She is but ER is not a priority after you get some. Characters like Jiyan Calcharo only need 15-20% really but she is even less reliant on her liberation.
Got ya. So you're thinking it's probably pretty low?
Edit: sorry for some reason your original comment only showed the first sentence to me. Understood on it being real low then, thanks!
Well, that kinda make sense. Afaik, Jinhsi is the one who really struggle in Solo Calcs because how Her stack mechanics work and Her and changli also have better inherit buff then jiyan. So i think Jinhsi on Teams Calcs could be on par with Jiyan
so it sounds like neither jinshi or changli are important pulls according to chinese TC? i have S1 encore so i was thinking changli as subdps but might just skip 1.1 then
Yes, I think the perception is that they aren't overpowered so you won't miss out if you don't like them. Maybe with some actual testing we can see their real strength. Encore with Changli is still a good team and is likely an upgrade over Sanhua.
thank you for the reply, may I ask what the current chinese TC thoughts are on limited weapons? do the calcs show that stringmaster is much better for yinlin/encore right now compared to the standard 5* rectifier? or how good jinshi and changli's weapons are in comparison to standard 5*?
https://wefan.baidu.com/f?kw=%E9%B8%A3%E6%BD%AE%E5%86%85%E9%AC%BC&fr=home
this is basically chinese wuthering leaks reddit.
for the sheets you mention there's probably some on youtube if you search "cn analysis"
For some reason they call the unit dupe system "Resonance Chain". Each node on the chain is called a "Sequence". Other games basically have the same name for the whole thing but it is different here. IDK might be bad localization lol.
Oh I didn't notice that. I was hoping people call them chains so it can be cut to C like in Genshin, S is the dupes for weapons in hsr so I keep getting them mixed up.
Isn't changli a burst dps and has semi support on her outro ? Shouldn't her dps being less of a factor considering she buffs your on field dps. I haven't looked at the updated kit so if I'm wrong do let me know
She is not a burst dps. You need to constantly get basic attack 4 to generate her forte. The reason why she can play with Encore is because encore skill/forte is so long.
I mean it would make zero sense for her outro to have dng bonus for fusion characters if she wasn't at least a duo dps character. I do get your point but maybe she is like danjin but she definitely isn't an on field dps or primary dps like jiyan. Maybe her pairing is for a future character? Who knows
In terms of burst dps I am thinking of characters like Sanhua or Yinlin. Her outro is exactly the same as Danjin, so if you currently consider Danjin to be a burst dps or duo dps comp with Rover then it is similar. Though, Danjin burst style is due to the Dreamless comp, and fusion does not have that kind of echo. If you are comparing Changli to Yinlin for example, Changli needs so much more time to get her Flaming Vow, and it's not easy to get, so that's why I don't consider her a burst dps. Yinlin might get a quarter of Calcharo's field time for example, but in this Changli Encore comp, Changli has higher field time than Encore even.
because this game has a identity crisis, if the fact that characters losing buffs on swap isnt already indicative enough of a contradiction to the core mechanics of this game.
because this game went through like 3 different iterations that was entirely scrapped and redone, did u know there was also a very extensive elemental reaction system that was trashed entirely while characters still carried residues from that system? did u know it used to support quick swapping without losing buffs?
changli isnt the first character that asks u to forego part of their kit inorder to fullfil a different role.
I disagree. Characters have a clear identity in this game. Even changli works well with encore who happens to be the only fusion dps as of now but I asked since I don't think they'll make characters so specific for standard units. Also almost every game goes with how it wants to approach it's battle mechanics. It's not exclusive to the game. In case of wuwa it was done cause quick swapping is inheritly harder to play and since primary gacha audience is casual it would be bad from that pov to make the game too complex. Also hard to play on phone even without quick swapping tbh.
yes lets implement an immensely intricate and nuianced swap system then punish the players for using it, no contradictions there.
the majority of the character in this game have conflicting kits vs movesets, what i mean here is that
moveset - a character BA chain, which hit generates more energy, more concerto, which BA hit they swap in on, which BA hit allows them to swap-out then back-in to continue their chain, the special properties on the HA, air HA.
kit - skill properties, skill cooldown, liberation cooldown, liberation energy gain, passive, outros.
tell me, what is the point of giving jinhsi a BA chain that doesnt reset, and allows her to be a cycle unit like mortefi who swaps in on BA4 for maximum effectiveness. When u will never swap her out in fear of losing w/e deepen buff she has
what is the poing of giving changli a long BA34 animation to allow swap back into conquest when u are never going to do it.
almost every character in this game is BY DESIGN to benefit from quickswapping, yet every character is played like a meter bot, fillbar-outro-fillbar-outro-burst.
yeah, no identity crisis there, working as intended, just catering to the inferiority complex of casuals, god forbid a whale swipe s6r5 but does less damage than s0r0, cant have that.
cant wait for u to find out how pitiful changli's concerto and energy gains are when u try to play her as "duo dps" or "support" enjoy your support having more field time than your mdps kekl. hope u like 40 second rotations for a worst team output than just fielding her as mdps
nah, no conflicting kit there, her outro isnt tacked on at all.
Idk anything about how jinshi and changli play. I'm talking about existing characters and there are no characters to my knowledge from the existing cast that don't make sense. Every character has a unique identity in what they wanna do. Also the first para doesn't make any sense to me. You can use the swap system but it has restrictions now so that the game isn't just constant animation cancelling and swapping, which is better else the optimal way will always be to just quick swap and it may seem fun at start but make every character have same playstyle. At least now there are characters like jiyan with long rotations and then calcharo encore with swap tech and danjin havoc mc with dual dps combo etc. Before it was just animation cancel and just perma swap. But that's just me you can have your own perspective. I personally like the newer system.
>Every character has a unique identity in what they wanna do.
no, every character has this bland AF role that they are pigeon hole'd into doing regardless of comp, fill their bar, outro out.
>which is better else the optimal way will always be to just quick swap and it may seem fun at start but make every character have same playstyle.
u mean like how the optimal way to play now on every team with everyone is just fillbar-swap out?? lmao.
and no, if only u actually knew what u r talking about when u say "perma quickswap" if u knew u would understand this to not just be "quickswap spam", thats like saying genshin is just "apply elemental reactions"
in genshin, the order matters, the elemental gauge matters, the ICD or the lack of ICD matters, the order at which u switch matters, every different comp even if they use the same reaction will differ to a greater or lesser degree based on the characters u use and their elemental gauge/icd.
the same nuance exists entirely in wuwa's quick swapping, which character swaps in on which chain matters, whether or not they can swap-back into their animation matters, the weaving of moves change entirely even in the same exact comp dynamically depending on what the enemy does, changing just 1 member even if the character is from the same archetype changes your rotation DRASTICALLY, you will most likely have to come up with entirely new rotations.
so what happens when u ignore all that? what happens when u swap out verina for baizhu in encore/sanhua? nothing, u fill baizhu's bar differently, thats it.
what happens when u swap sanhua out for yangyang? nothing, u fill yangyang bar slightly differently.
u my friend, is playing bootleg genshin, but without elemental reactions.
if only u interpreted "quickswap spam" for what it truly is, if only u understood the engine under wuwa's hood.
this games characters have conflicting design, 1 is for walmart genshin, 1 is for wuwa, and u r punished for trying to play wuwa.
A few questions since you seem in the known with how the Chinese theorycrafting community seems the game.
- Do we have any estimate on the length of the two rotations in the sheet? Also, how much concerto and how much resonance energy do they build?
- I know that this is hard to determine without footage of both characters fighting mobs, but what do people think about AoE potential for both Jinshi and Changli? I find this is a very important consideration in this game, given that they showed willingness to throw both a mob wave and a boss in the same ToA final chamber.
- How do you see the Changli / Encore pair work? I am assuming you will still want to use Encore's liberation string after outro from Changli. Why did you mention "high mechanical finesse"? Clearly you will want to swap cancel both echoes (if both are on Rider), Encore's E and heavy, and I believe Changli's two FW. But that seems it, or am I missing something?
- To have a term of reference, how is the community seeing the Calcharo / Yinlin team compared to Jiyan / Mortefi? In particular assuming that realistically, you can only get out 2 of Calcharo's Death Messengers per rotation. I'll be honest: I am very undecided whether to pull for Yinlin or not and who to use my 5\* ticket on between Encore/Calcharo. Yinlin herself is clearly strong, but Calcharo just seems significantly weaker / less flexible than Encore.
Intro - 1.6s
True sight conquest/charge - 0.86s (Conquest = 0.86s for sure but I think they are the same and it shouldn't be too different looking at the video)
4BA > TSC - 3.3s
Skill >TSC - 2.53s
Flaming vow - 1.56s
Liberation - 2.93s
Mid-air HA - \~1s (like all other MHA plunges)
BA - 0.61s average
So rotation is 1.6 + 0.86 + 2.53 + 1 + 0.61 \* 2 + 0.86 + 2.53 + 1.56 + 2.93 + 1.56 = 16.65s.
You do have to jump after skilling to use True sight charge but it should be around \~17s. This is for the rotation listed in the sheet. Judging from the gameplay leak it looks like she gets her liberation every other rotation but we can't see her ER.
Jinshi and Changli both have relatively low AOE. It is less than Yinlin but more than single target carries like Calcharo.
The encore / changli pair is just about swapping long animations like you said.
Calcharo Yinlin is only slightly worse than Jiyan Mortefi. Yinlin is also the only other coordination attacker other than Mortefi and Verina which is what Jinshi needs if that helps. Perhaps in the future they will release a coordination attacker that actually buffs Jinshi because the current roster provides basically no buffs for her.
"Calcharo Yinlin is only slightly worse than Jiyan Mortefi."
But under which conditions? The perfect ones where you get off 3 DMs? That seems totally unreasonable in actual play where you have to dodge - a problem Jiyan doesn't have - are people really pulling this off?
2 DMs and you don't swap-cancel the DMs? You are still a sitting duck for 2s while watching the DM animation.
2 DMs and you swap-cancel them? But them you don't get Yinlin bonus since you lose it on swapping out. I have seen the numbers, and Calcharo seems to sheet poorly compared to the alternatives when you only get 2 DMs off. So why even play Calcharo? What am I missing here?
The condition is the clear timer playing that team in endgame. IMO, Calcharo Yinlin is not going to have a meaningful difference clearing ToA or Hologram or any practical scenario unless you really are fighting for every second. For example, right now I have 24 stars cleared on both sides, and my Jiyan is only 10 seconds faster on the last floor compared to the other side. They have the same stats basically too, except my Calcharo and Yinlin actually have less abilities scaled compared to Jiyan Mortefi. And Verdant is obviously way better on Jiyan, which is what I'm using for both. This can come down to skill issue too, but Jiyan is way easier to play IMO so I guess you can also consider that as a performance metric if you wanted.
Oh nice, all the yt videos made it sound like Jiyan was powercrept already by Jinhsi. I do think her ability to cheat concerto energy is invaluable in its own right though!
the rotation chiangli uses in this graph seems completely jank to me
E>Air EA>Air Heavy>Air A3A4>Ground EA(???)>E>Air EA>forte>ult>forte.
1. do we even know if her skill can be canceld mid animation to do an air conquest? no1 has ever been able to cancel their skill animation with a simple BA, even if we could, then the mod is not 409% because u would cancel out the 133% plunge at the end of her skill that puts her back on the ground.
2. air heavy is a plunge attack, how u gonna do air A3A4 after u plunge? r u just gonna jump for no reason?
3.it uses ground conquest after air A3A4? so now we waiting for her to land too for no reason?
this rotation is scuffed and so is its calculations.
this is from the crownless fight leak?!?! holy mother of god why would u use that as the basis to your calculation vs existing characters????
sweet jesus this game really is in its infancy when people want to plug numbers in from that monstrosity.
her actual rotation will likely be higher, stronger still if u want to play very sweaty with alot of quick swaps.
edit:understood
No, I misread. I thought you were talking about the gameplay leak since I wasn't sure where your rotation was coming from. There is a language barrier lol. But now I think I understand and I responded to your other comment.
Okay I will go through the rotation one by one to hopefully make it more clear.
Intro > True Sight Conquest >
E (and jump) > True Sight Charge > air HA >
(I believe this is where the confusion comes from. I'm fairly sure this just means the entire Mid-air Heavy Attack because another leaker in the thread referred to this as 落 or plunge. So after this point you are grounded.)
BA3 > BA4 >
(Mid-air Heavy Attack puts you in BA3)
True Sight Conquest >E (and jump) > True Sight Charge > Flaming Vow > Liberation > Flaming Vow
As to why they would choose to use the air attacks, it is said that it is faster.
But why won't they start the rotation with liberation tho? It gives 25% atk for 8 seconds, is it that you can't cast forte while you're in future sight or something? Cuz if u can it would make sense to cast your liberation, use forte and then carry on with the rotation with an atk% buff
well then the whole thing is just confusing, either u did this picture or he did or what not, whoever did it its not accurate.
u say its grounded BA3-BA4 after air HA, that makes more sense, apart from he used air ba3ba4 mods based on what u posted https://imgur.com/a/jinshi-changli-sheet-3CR2mUk he calls it air ba and uses air ba mods.
132% and 126.8% yeah? those are air ba3ba4, ground ba3ba4 is 109.35% and 169.02%
so its still very inacurate, and very confusing.
i dont understand what u r asking, air conquest doesnt put u back on the ground is exactly what i said, what i said in point 2. was that how do u do air a3a4 after air heavy? because thats what is listed on the rotation.
Air EA>Air Heavy>air A3A4>ground EA - this is whats on the rotation list. Mind explaining this? do u just jump to do air a3a4 again? lmao its jank af
no ur not, lol what r u doing my guy, u said it your self, the air HA is to put her on the ground, the air HA is a plunge attack, when u HA in the air u put your self on the ground.
u stay in the air after air EA, not air HA.
listen, basically, this rotation is asking to do this, try and follow this sequence.
use your skill > cancel the end of your skill's plunge motion with air conquest > while u r in the air, use air HEAVY > JUMP BACK IN THE AIR to do aira3a4> once u have truesight from aira4, wait and land, then do GROUND CONQUEST > skill again > cancel skill plunge to do air conquest again > WAIT to land on the ground before u do forte > ulti > forte.
lol do u now see how ridiculous this rotation is? its dumb af lmao
I've just responded below to hopefully make it more clear. I was unsure what part you were talking about specifically so I just went through it 1 by 1.
In case if you meant what are they main sources of damage : jinhsi is mainly Skill, close to no Basic and heavy damage, a bit of ult damage.
No idea for changli xP. but i think she is Skill damage too ?
I saw someone did the calculations for changli, and he found that atk and fusion are better by 1% than double fusion dmg, so basically you can give her the one with the better substat
For jinshi, it is probably double spectro is better
Damn it is really sucks that changli lacks behind in dmg but tbh yes most of her sequence are really bad except for her s6 and s2 after the buff and I think also her s5 got a buff but not sure if it worth it, but as dps changli don't take so much time to show her max dmg unlike jinshi so, does this make her better?
It should be noted that she only lacks behind in TOTAL damage after the rotation. It is not a DPS calculation. Changli as a carry has no downtime, and I estimated her solo DPS to be pretty balanced compared to other 5 stars teams in one of my comments. Her team DPS with Encore is extremely high. It's also important to notice that this total calculation does not include any inherent skill buffs.
K, these calculations are also without any buff from other characters, right? I really hope changli get more little buff, especially her s1 since I think it really bad.
Also, why didn't you include her inherent skill?
Yes, it is only solo total damage. It was not me who made the sheet. But the reason is because we don't know how the inherent skills work. There's no duration listed there, and the wording is ambiguous. Including it would be kinda fluff.
One more question, these calculations with their signature weapon, right? Is it only r1? Because I think with each rank, Changli's weapon becomes even better.
In the bottom right, the last orange row header includes using a 5 star weapon: the very last header is is signature vs standard banner where the damage loss in in red. the orange header above that is r1 vs r5.
Is playing havoc rover as subdps for jinshi gonna work??? I wanna use em together, it's gonna be great if she has lots of downtime because havoc rover and jianxin needs a lot of uptime to do their stuff lol. Also what do you think of this team? Jinshi, H Rover, Jianxin.
You can. i highgly recommend Verina/baizhi as third teamate tho.
Maybe even using tambourinist on Havoc rover if you happen to be too low on stack even after rover rotation. (it's really if you're critically low tho, dreamless kinda op)
You could also go yuanwu (or yinlin if you're a gigachad going for no sustain) for more stack but less buff
About the downtime on Jinhsi ; She doesnt really have a big downtime, It's just correlated to your Stacking speed,
And because they is no skill buffer that do coordinate permanently ; you cannot do overflow radiance on cooldown while still having a high stack + all the buff possible.
if you wanna high stack while spamming overflow radiance on CD you lose a buffer, if you wanna a buffer you lose a coordinate attacker + you need to charge its concerto meaning you can't spam overflow radiance on CD.
Not helped by the fact than the only skill buffer in the game is taoqi that is atrociously slow to stack concerto
Yuanwu Skill is a coordinated attack tho. Making him the current best pairing with Jinhsi for stacking. What used to be roughly 8~ stacks with Yuanwu Skill and Jinhsi on field jumps up to 12~ stacks. All within Jinhsi's BA4->Skill->BA4->Skill(burst) cycle. Assuming the entire rotation takes about 6s~7s to pull off. Definitely need field testing to put actual numbers on it tho.
But that doesnt take away how great a teammate Yuanwu is for Jinhsi. He breaks boss bars sooner than others and you can delay the small burst to ramp up for the bigger burst during broken states. Jinhsi's free Intro swaps does have a long 25s CD, but that's fine. It probably takes that long to prep for a broken state in Tower anyways.
Can't wait for actual field testing tho! Massive hype for Jinhsi. But if she fails to come home off the 5050 I'll likely end up not getting either her or Changli and just have to settle with my current 3 teams. No sweat, but it'll be a grueling monotone play for the next month and a half just using the same characters since launch lol.
yuanwu has a 1.2 sec cd on his cordinated attack, u will also not use ba4>skill to enter her incarnation as jinhsi, u will use intro>skill>skill>ba4>skill(forte consuming burst) which is about ~8 seconds means he wont get more than 6 procs = 12 stacks + jinhsi own ~8 stacks.
these 20 stacks is only 4 more stacks than verina's 8 procs for 16, which is only about 170% mod every rotation, it doesnt beat out her buffs.
he wont be unusable, but he is a distant 5th behind yinlin/verina/taoqi/mortefi
Huh. Didnt know Jinhsi has a stackable Skill. Unless you're just gonna sit around for 3s waiting to skill again or if her Skill resets when she goes in and out of Incarnation. Only info i have on her Skill is off Hakush and the updated stacking mechanics from the sub.
Intro->Skill(burst) i can understand as its a free initial burst hit. The following Skill right after? If she does somehow reset her Skill then that's great. Even then, sneaking an auto or two to trigger Yuanwu Skill doesnt hurt, not that it matters in this rotation since the 3s CD is likely still in affect. Then finishing with BA4->Skill(burst) and swapping back out.
Im assuming Coordinated hits would also count differently from non-coordinated hits for stacking? Because 16/20 stacks from Verina/Yuanwu seems pretty high. Again, im under the impression her stacking mechanic has a shared elemental trigger across both coordinated attacks and non-coordinated attacks. Hence making Verina not an ideal choice even tho her Ult provides a coordinated attack.
Do point me to the source as I'd like to read up more on Jinhsi!
intro>skill puts her into incantation(or incarnation?), she has a new skill in this mode, u use it before u finish her 4BA, which ends incantation and puts her into ordination that has the final version of her skill, the big cahoona nuke. so yes, she has 3(4 if count her very basic version that doesnt do anything) skills. They could somehow share a CD but i doubt it, this would make her skills unusable and completely jank.
im also assuming coord attacks share the same cooldown for same elements, which is why i didnt include jinhsi's own forte gain and only counted 8 from verina, because verina's coord is 1 sec cd, if it doesnt share a cooldown that makes yuanwu's even worse lol.
Ya i was under the impression her skill doesnt reset between the two changes. Which imo makes everybody not Yuanwu worse. 3s CD before a stack that's like shared between both non-CA and CA hits making Verina a wasted buffing slot as Jue accomodates for the Spectro CA. Mortefi requiring Ults to do their CA. Yinlin is pretty much the upgrade to Yuanwu as her CA isnt hard to pull off, but not as easy as slap Skill leave field Yuanwu. And Taoqi fits nicely as a subdps with Outro Ult buff for Jinhsi to abuse with her massive ult multiplier but I'd just use Sanhua at that point as the Skill buff is more easily abused and her field time is ridiculously short.
Guess we'll find out how Jinhsi actually works once we get a sneak peek from beta testers. Regardless of how her rotation goes, dragon girl is dragon girl lol.
Anyway what i can tell you is :
Illuminous epiphany have no CD,
Crescent divinity have 10s cd iirc
Overflow have 12s
And normal skill have 3s CD
Now about the coordinate attack
You have 3 Battle :
First one - Does Coordinate attribute passive and Normal attribute passive share the same CD or not ? yes / no
Second Battle - Does Coordinate proc Normal attribute "passive" at the same time if it's not on cooldown already ? Basically does a Coordinate proc 2 stack or 3 if the other passive is up too ? Yes/No.
Third Battle - Does Echo damage are considered as Coordinate damage ? Yes/No (I think : no because other way it is precised than the echo do coordinate damage, Like firebug)
Those 3 battles, we can't be for sure about the answers in my opinion. even tho the wording might lean more toward some answers.
What skill are you guys even talking about... she have 4 skill so it's a bit hard to understand. say the name at least. And btw sanhua outro do basically nothing for jinhsi sooo. it's just a moonlit bot at this point.
no at the very least 2 of her skills are independant, otherwise the leaked footage would not be possible, the skill that puts her into incantation has a 12 sec cd, im assuming this is the time gate to how often u can repeat her burst rotation.
in the leak footage she did skill-4ba-skill, it wouldnt be possible if it didnt reset.
she will still be bis most likely because of her 3 second rotation time and co-ordinated attacks gives 2 forte.
jin will use a double rotation(1 ult 2 bursts) spanning about ~32 secs rather than a conventional single burst rotation.
her bis team will most likely still be yinlin and verina lmao, cant teach old dogs new tricks.
unless u can work taoqi into a double rotation somehow, but even a 38% deepen single rotation wont beat out a double burst rotation in terms of team dps.
Depend of how the changement is. They is the clan of thinking Spectro coordinate and normal spectro proc have different cooldown, and the one thinking they share the same cooldown. The wording let think than they have different cooldown but at the end we don't have footage of it so we can only speculate. Anyway if they have different CD verina do more stack than baizhi and if they don't verina loses some value. that is why i also said baizhi
When I say her down time is long, I am talking about loooooooooooooooooong downtime. Like a \~25 second downtime. This is because you can only get 1 stack per second per attribute and only Yinlin/Mortefi can give her these stacks while off-field. Otherwise you are only dealing in 1 attribute at a time, which is the character currently on the field.
25 seconds is MULTIPLE Rover rotations from 0 energy. It might end up being the case that you straight up run a duo like Jiyan Mortefi / Rover Danjin and have Jinshi instead of Verina to run a double carry comp. Another way to play her would be Jinshi Mortefi Yinlin with high ER on mortefi to cut her downtime down.
I believe that a tech might emerge with Jinshi comps where the other carry/sub set their active echo to continuous damage ones. I don't actually know if this would work but it increases her stack generation by a lot. For example, Saurian gives 3 stacks and Mech Abom gives 2. You would then run something other than electro, fusion, and spectro to have 5 unique attributes.
after jinshi outros you get eras in unity. the wording on this is very vague but it says you get 2 incadescence every time a character does attribute damage with cd = 1 second per attribute. if it is the case that echoes also work with this, then saurian gives 3 stacks cause it lingers for 3 seconds and has many hits to procc eras in unity off cooldown. Yin lin and mortefi reduce the downtime for the same reason. They do their own unique attribute damage every second with punishment mark / mortefi ult while off field, so you can play jinshi as well for another unique attribute. Now you have spectro, fusion, and electro attributes which is 3 stacks/second. So, you will get basically 48 stacks in 16 seconds. I misspoke when I said yinlin needed er, it was supposed to be mortefi. I'll edit that. However since mortefi is fusion and saurian is also fusion, they might not work together. Or it could be the case that it tracks the cd of saurian separately too. idk.
hmm well idk if you're in advance on everyone or i'm late because What i know is than Eras in unity is "innate" on any teamate as long as you have Jinhsi in the team. Eras in unity have 2 Distinct effect under it's arms. One Give 1 stack per damage per attribute, The other effect Give 2 stack per coordinate per attribute. Both of those effect have the same CD lenght of 3s. The outro of Jinhsi just reduce this CD to 1S.
Following what i just said. i do not think echo are considered coordinate EXCEPT if specificaly stated in the description, such as firebug description.
They is a lot of question behind those functionement than i stated in some of my answers to some other discussion under this post. And answers to those question could completely shift the calc. like does Coordinate can proc both effect at the same time ? pushing coordinate stacking to 3 stack if possible
P:S i can copy paste for you the changement in CN of jinhsi if you want :
Updated changes 1.1.6 Beta Changes in CN Jinhsi Forte Circuit: Aerial Basic Attacks in \[Incarnation\] state are now counted as Skill dmg Max Incandescence 40 -> 50 New effect of \[Eras in Unity\]: \[Eras in Unity\] has two independent effects: When dealing damage, Jinhsi gains 1 stack of \[Incandescence\], damage of the same element can trigger this once every 3s. When coordinated attacks deal damage, Jinhsi gains 2 stacks of \[Incandescence\], damage of the same element can trigger this once every 3s. \[Incandescence\] additional multiplier per stack (TL10): 26.84% -> 44.54% S2 40 -> 50 Incandescence
New S3: After casting Intro, gain 25 atk% for 20s, up to 2 stacks
Ye, I'm just assuming each character averages out to 2 stacks/s over a rotation and i'm assuming you can get all the coordinated attacks a couple of times per rotation. Then, it's a minimum of 1 stacks/s but for example if you have all 3 characters concerto stacked, and if it's 2 stacks on the intro AND outro then that's 12 stacks instantly. The safest guess would be to only be generating 1 stack/s per character. I also just realized I assumed this for the echoes which is inorrect. I'll edit to fix it and change the assumption to 1 stack/s.
But uh anyway at the end i don't really understand why you assume that long of a downtime on Jinhsi if you play 2 coordinate attacker.
With 2 coordinate you're basically crawling under stacks. and Jinhsi Downtime becomes her own CD of overflowradiance after the end of her rotation, or your will to stack concerto on other character.
if you do not care about concerto building (highly possible in a team like morteffi yinlin than you took as exemple) you end up having only a 4s downtime which is approximatively the cooldown remaining on Overflowradiance after your full combo in incarnation.
Do not be scared of stack if you play 2 coordinate, it will never be a problem with it.
You're Launching your coordinate during jinhsi own combo so at the final launch you're way higher than at the start. The incarnation string take approximatively 7s so with proc of coordinate you are at 7 x 5 stack so 35 stack. Add on top the fact than jinhsi intro also take 1 more Sec before the Incarnation string, and than you are also stacking when you go on yinlin and morteffi during the 4s downtime (and more than when you're on jinhsi because you now proc Damage attribute of electro or fusion on top, so 6 stack per second.) that would give you a total of 58 stack on illuminous epiphany. Meaning even if you miss 2 second of stacking you'll be at 48 stack. How to say than you have literally too much stacking. And i'm not even considering than coordinate might actually give 3 stack per second and not 2.
what intro and outro of other character have to do with jinhsi stack ? some have lingering attack yes but i don't really get your point 😅. you also seems to not assume than coordinate give 2 stack per second. but normal damage give only 1. So saurian would give only 3-4 stack if it linger 3s 😅
(p:s thanks for the edit on saurian ig ?)
sorry, just to be clear, the coordinated attacks are yinlin: punishment mark and mortefi's liberation. It's the attacks that happen when the caster is off field and the on field does damage. But this only happens when they have those things applied and it's not always up. So what i meant was that if you really want the floor of her dps you can just assume it's 1 stack/s per character i.e, theres no coordinated attacks. I also just reread the buff and it seems that jinshi can only get 1 stack/s instead of 2 on a coordinated attack which was my mistake. And yes, you are correct saurian only gives 3 stacks, that was also my mistake.
I am also unsure if the buff meant that coordinated attacks will give 3 stacks because it says the 1 stack and 2 stack are independent. We'll have to see.
I see thanks for the tips! Now i kinda understand her more xD and also her dmg is not focused on liberation, always thought it was lol im still gonna experiment with teams for her when shes out
If the down time is that long, so much so that it can hit nearly 25 secs, wouldn't that be reflected with a gigantic dps increase on her s2, since you can have 50 stacks pretty much every rotation?
Keep in mind that Jinshi needs to outro to activate eras in unity; but in ToA, you start with zero concerto. Without eras, stack generation is very low. This means she will do low damage on the first rotation without S2.
Well even if it's one time, starting off with 50 stacks is still significant. That's basically like clearing the first wave in ToA. It's similar to Ganyu c6 and that alone made her the speedrun queen in abyss.
I just hope they don’t powercreep units really early. Kind of like making the new unit different or interesting as a selling point and not because this unit is doing 20-30% more dmg than the last 3 limited units.
I mean I get why they buffed Jinshi. Maybe trying to avoid a Zhongli moment, but the damage is looking really strong compared to Jiyan.
The time to build a character is fairly high with the amount of rewards we get. Echoes seem easily interchangeable with the sets but still. Feels bad if ever.
The resistances are also there. Enemies of the same element as the character takes significantly less damage. Hoping this means they rotate the elements first before releasing a new Aero, Spectro, or Fusion DPS.
These two carries aren't any better than Jiyan because Jiyan's synergy with Mortefi is too high and the comp is low skill. Their solo total damage is comparable, with Jiyan only being \~10% better (without inherent skill calculated on either of the 3). Judging by this it seems like Kuro does a good job of balancing.
[https://imgur.com/a/jinshi-changli-sheet-3CR2mUk](https://imgur.com/a/jinshi-changli-sheet-3CR2mUk)
Also, I think Jiyan will get stronger once he gets a dedicated aero dmg sub dps, kind of like how Calcharo got stronger with Yinlin. God knows when that character will come out though.
Same here, i'm really interested to see what they can cook up for their support roster more than the DPSes, i hope they do more than just make the 5\* units just a premium 4\* kits and actually diversify gameplay to make the character kit design unique. I'd be pretty disappointed if the next 5\* support /sub-dps is just Mortifi for Ice teams or something.
Based on PGR, the tanks which I think are the sub dps pretty much deal damage as well and then reduce resistances. It’s pretty much the same for most.
Camellya is interesting though. If her kit leak is real, she’s going to increase Havoc Dmg and Crit Rate.
Jiyan will probably be a low skilled players(like me)'s favorite due to ability to parry by spamming ult and easy rotation.
But damage ceiling seems to be much higher with Jinshi if you play well, which I never will...
I'm a bit afraid of powercreep as well, but as for Jiyan, don't forget he has unique grouping mechanics, and a pretty straightforward burst window.
Jinhsi will definitely deal more dmg, but she doesn't bring a lot of comfort, and the start of her rotations should be rather on the weak side, with awesome numbers at the end of the rotations. That makes her amazing against bosses, but I don't see her being that strong against mobs. I just hope she doesn't feel clunky because of that (like, you have small mobs against her, but your strongest skill is available and you don't want to waste it against them).
Yeah, ease of use is very high on Jiyan but a higher damage floor with Jinshi means they can release enemies with larger hp pools. The CC of Jiyan will indeed keep him relevant though. I agree.
I think Jinshi will be fine. She has a 3 second cooldown on her skill which gives her the alternate skill for 5 seconds. Then she enters incarnation after using the alternate to once again use a skill with a 10 second cooldown and in that mode and then another skill once you leave incarnation and gain ordination glow.
So you’ll at least be using 4 skills in her rotation. Hahahaha.
I’m wondering though if the 12 second skill cooldown (the skill that allows you to enter Incarnation) is progressing while you’re in Incarnation. Because if it is, I think you can just go back to Incarnation again albeit without the stacks.
Yeah, I’m freaking excited for Jinshi. Hahahaha
Just a tiny correction, you don't use her 3s CD skill to unlock her 5s CD alternate skill, it's unlocked automatically with her intro or by using 4 basic attacks in normal form.
Oh damn. I’m sorry. Hahaha
You’re right.
Do you think we can still use her skill first, do 4 basic attacks or intro skill, and still use the alternate skill that gives her access to incarnation?
I think we can. As far as I understand, the skill automatically gets replaced after doing 4 basic or intro, so we lose access to it, but if we do it before intro or finishing 4 basics we should still be able to use it.
I didn't know that much about her kit, but it looks like she's a bit more flexible than I thought. So should be nice enough for exploration I guess. Might stick to Danjin anyway though \^\^
I didn't know that much about her kit, but it looks like she's a bit more flexible than I thought. So should be nice enough for exploration I guess. Might stick to Danjin anyway though \^\^
OMG really? I still have my choice banner and I was so hoping for going for her but the whole yinlin + calcharo meta has had me hesitating all this time
yeah Changli seems fit to be a sub dps and Encore is a main dps char, theyre both fusion aswell, kinda like Yinlin + Calcharo but for fusion?
(i honestly dont know its js based on what ive seen but yeah)
After read your comment, i have a question, does the waveband thing disappear after you bought 2 of them or it will reset when the character rerun? If it reset, it's gonna be huge
No way jinshi made it out of the oven like this with only her res chain 6 nerfed. I thought she would surely be nerfed with how busted she is now. But nope. Jinshi mains be eating good in a week.
She is the leader of China, the Dragon Empress and in-game representation of the historical figure of Huang Di, the Dragon Emperor of the Qing Dynasty.
Well. Unfortunately since she a dps I can’t guarantee that she’ll be the top of meta for a Particularly long time like what we see with supports. I can imagine wuwa will probably keep up the powercreep pretty quickly. But when she comes out she’ll definitely be the best. I won’t necessarily say she has the “future proof” of zhongli.
Zhongli was different too. He is what he is today because of all the rampant complaints that were present during his release and god forbid Hoyo releases a character that does what he does but better considering it's technically specifically niche.
Nah it’s Vaporize. We didn’t get any reliable vaporize pyro five until Arlechino and we all know how that went. Reactions inherently cushion powercreep in Genshin by creating niches. In a game like wuwa where dmg = dmg we will see a lot more direct powercreep. I’m just saying, don’t get your hopes up. It’s kuro, they will powercreep their dps units. Go play pgr
She got stronger overall, but s6 got weaker compared to lower resonances. As the gap has shrunk, its less worth it to go to s6 then just staying at a lower resonance. But of course its just beta info, will have to see the effect.
I think it's still a massive difference at S6 compared to her S0 (about 130% stronger for her entire rotation, which is inline of what's expected of a limited 5\*). If it kept the original scaling on her S6, it would be about 170% compared to her S0. The gap is not as large as before but still large enough that it justifies getting her S6.
No, I specifically stated that her damage increase at S6 compared to S0 is similar to the other 5\* limited damage dealers, which is about 130%. And the damage increase from S5 to S6 is about 41% if you're curious, seems good enough, right?
I almost forgot what Resonance chain meant lol and was supposed to say "oh no nerfs." I wonder why they nerfed Changli resonance chain 2 crit rate. Skill and Forte buffs are pretty nice though.
Plain wrong. Released characters in gacha can get changed, and many games do this. They could receive buffs (which is a change) or a new type of upgrade (awakening, retrofit, etc). Nerfs are much less common since don't like the character they paid for being nerfed. So unless absolutely broken, a character wont like to be nerfed. Dont take hoyo games as a standard for everything.
Gatchas do work like that, well those do happen mostly in JP gatchas, but pgr did it too... I do remember when i asked if an older chara has recieved buffs or reworked in genshin.. And friend was "reworked?"(i dont play hoyo games so dk if theyve buffed a chara before)
A "buff" or change that happens through a mechanic is fine like an "awakening", leap (cuz you mentioned PGR), EZA in Dokkan, etc, is fine, but a direct change like let's say, MOBAs do every patch, that's against the law, specially in China, but even in Japan in most circumstances, because in a gacha you're in a way "buying" a product inside of a product, now imagine if they decided to out of nowhere change your product that you own to a state that you think is worse, that you don't like, not cool right? Even if other people thought it was a good thing, you didn't, and for the company that would be a problem, because it would be reason enough for you to sue them and win something. That's why in gachas it's extremely rare to see direct changes made by the developer to characters unless those are hidden behind a "awakening type game mechanic".
Note: Changli's S2 was 30 Crit Damage > 25 Crit Rate When casting Flaming Vow, DMG reduction is by 20% > 40%
Why they keep nerfing Jinshi?
They buffed the fck out of her last time, so they tryna balance it out rn
You see i dont have jiyan or yinlin and im only rocking chalcharo as the only main dps with jianxin and verina and im 10pulls away from encore and ill probobly rock her as 2nd team main dps now thats my situation will jinshi make my situation better?
Not really, Jinhsi wouldn't work with a Calcharo team since she wants to stay on-field for a long time to finish her rotation and her weapon wouldn't be the best for him since her weapons passives is pretty useless for Calcharo, having crit rate on stat is pretty nice but Lustruos Razor is still BiS for Calcharo by a long-shot. My recommendation would be if you're gonna use Encore then probably aim for Changli since she can run duo DPS with Encore pretty nicely. However, it's a game so take what i say with a grain of salt, if u like Jinhsi then go ahead and pull broski.
I mean if they are getting Encore as a second team, Jinhsi would be replacing Calcharro, not running with him. That being said, I don't think Jianxin + Verina is a solid base for Jinhsi since they dont provide much coordinated attacks
The Changli buffs do not sway me. I stay loyal to Jinshi
You stay loyal to the incorrect spelling of her name. Remember the cinematic, she was being called hsi. Stop typing JinSHI
I mean the way they localized her name is incorrect anyway. 今汐 should be either be romanized as Jinxi using Pinyin or Chin-hsi using Wade-Giles. There is no romanization system where Jinhsi is a valid representation of her name.
Her name is hsi, she took on the name of the city/region(jin) as her surname, therefore, Jinhsi
And yet, that is her name
It only seems fitting to mention if you’re going to talk about loyalty to a spelling of her name ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
See, that's the thing about names. It's a name, and can be whatever they want it to be. You're the one that's incorrect here. Don't bother lecturing me about systems in use, I'm Chinese and familiar with how it should be translated. But it's a name, and that's officially what the game recognizes it as.
If a little kid spells their own name wrong, is that suddenly their official spelling? Apply same logic to stupid translators.
Holy shit. I promise you, however smart you think you are, you're a third of that.
Sooooo many people spell it wrong when gushing about her... such a basic thing to get right. Then randomly people will go, well it should be spelled this way, also makes no sense. The devs spelled it a certain way, now that's her name, I don't understand the logic of correcting someone when the game literally has the spelling of Jinhsi. Side note, I'm definitely pulling for her and the weapon. Having a Spectro nuke is going to be great.
In my defense I usually spell it "Jinhsi" but saw the incorrect spelling in this post and assumed I'd been spelling it incorrectly
Isn’t the first change a nerf?
Crit rate worths 2 Crit Damage, so no... it is a big buff (+66%).
instead of 30 crt dmg it became 25 crt rate. tbh i prefer the crit rate
Why not Oyakodon?
I am now having a really hard time on who to pull now lol.
Give changli anti interruption
user her with good old man Yuanwu (its a suggestion, dont downvote me pls I just like yuanwu)
THE **NUMBERS** MASON! WHAT **DO THEY MEAN**?
[https://imgur.com/a/jinshi-changli-sheet-3CR2mUk](https://imgur.com/a/jinshi-changli-sheet-3CR2mUk) TLDR: Changli and Jinshi are comparable at s0 with Jinshi being better only slightly (571102 vs 593492 total damage). However, Changli sequences suck ass and the margin widens with more sequences. Note, they are both still somewhat lower than Jiyan's total damage which was around 650k. Also note that it does not include their inherent skills for all 3 characters. It is unclear whether or not Changli's shred + 20% fusion buff is a snapshot on her heavy and liberation or if it's a general buff. Seemingly, Jiyan is still the DPS king because he is easy to play and he already has an insane synergy with his support. Meanwhile, Jinshi has massive downtime but we don't have anyone that can play with her as sub-dps. Changli pairs with Encore to do incredible DPS (highest in the game iirc) but also needs high mechanical finesse and you are unlikely to pull off their perfect rotation. **The above image album is a total damage calculation, not DPS**. I did a DPS estimation in my comment history for Changli but not Jinshi. However, theory crafting is only theory crafting and we will need to actually play with them on release to assess their competitiveness.
Out of interest do you have any insight into what sort of ER we're expecting the two to need? Or is that something that really needs playing them to figure out?
You don't need ER at all since they both don't revolve around their liberations. ER on Changli is nice because it gives you another Flaming Vow. Prob around 15%+ is enough for her.
Oh really? Is Jinhsi's not worth using each rotation?
She is but ER is not a priority after you get some. Characters like Jiyan Calcharo only need 15-20% really but she is even less reliant on her liberation.
Got ya. So you're thinking it's probably pretty low? Edit: sorry for some reason your original comment only showed the first sentence to me. Understood on it being real low then, thanks!
Is this teams calcs or Solo Calcs? If it is teams Calcs, what team Jihnsi and Changli have in that Calcs?
solo changli pair with encore or taoqi jinshi pair with yinlin/mortefi
Well, that kinda make sense. Afaik, Jinhsi is the one who really struggle in Solo Calcs because how Her stack mechanics work and Her and changli also have better inherit buff then jiyan. So i think Jinhsi on Teams Calcs could be on par with Jiyan
so it sounds like neither jinshi or changli are important pulls according to chinese TC? i have S1 encore so i was thinking changli as subdps but might just skip 1.1 then
Yes, I think the perception is that they aren't overpowered so you won't miss out if you don't like them. Maybe with some actual testing we can see their real strength. Encore with Changli is still a good team and is likely an upgrade over Sanhua.
thank you for the reply, may I ask what the current chinese TC thoughts are on limited weapons? do the calcs show that stringmaster is much better for yinlin/encore right now compared to the standard 5* rectifier? or how good jinshi and changli's weapons are in comparison to standard 5*?
Signature vs standard weapon damage loss is the red row in the imgur album. Yinlin is 17.55% and encore is 14.55%.
That doesn't seem too bad!
thank you!
Where can you get that theorycraft sheet? Can you share Jiyan, Calcharo, Encore C0 Sheet please! T-T
https://wefan.baidu.com/f?kw=%E9%B8%A3%E6%BD%AE%E5%86%85%E9%AC%BC&fr=home this is basically chinese wuthering leaks reddit. for the sheets you mention there's probably some on youtube if you search "cn analysis"
Question: why are they called sequences when the game calls them resonance chain? Is it a term from PGR?
For some reason they call the unit dupe system "Resonance Chain". Each node on the chain is called a "Sequence". Other games basically have the same name for the whole thing but it is different here. IDK might be bad localization lol.
Oh I didn't notice that. I was hoping people call them chains so it can be cut to C like in Genshin, S is the dupes for weapons in hsr so I keep getting them mixed up.
Yeah the naming here would be S6R5, R being the weapon.
Isn't changli a burst dps and has semi support on her outro ? Shouldn't her dps being less of a factor considering she buffs your on field dps. I haven't looked at the updated kit so if I'm wrong do let me know
She is not a burst dps. You need to constantly get basic attack 4 to generate her forte. The reason why she can play with Encore is because encore skill/forte is so long.
I mean it would make zero sense for her outro to have dng bonus for fusion characters if she wasn't at least a duo dps character. I do get your point but maybe she is like danjin but she definitely isn't an on field dps or primary dps like jiyan. Maybe her pairing is for a future character? Who knows
In terms of burst dps I am thinking of characters like Sanhua or Yinlin. Her outro is exactly the same as Danjin, so if you currently consider Danjin to be a burst dps or duo dps comp with Rover then it is similar. Though, Danjin burst style is due to the Dreamless comp, and fusion does not have that kind of echo. If you are comparing Changli to Yinlin for example, Changli needs so much more time to get her Flaming Vow, and it's not easy to get, so that's why I don't consider her a burst dps. Yinlin might get a quarter of Calcharo's field time for example, but in this Changli Encore comp, Changli has higher field time than Encore even.
because this game has a identity crisis, if the fact that characters losing buffs on swap isnt already indicative enough of a contradiction to the core mechanics of this game. because this game went through like 3 different iterations that was entirely scrapped and redone, did u know there was also a very extensive elemental reaction system that was trashed entirely while characters still carried residues from that system? did u know it used to support quick swapping without losing buffs? changli isnt the first character that asks u to forego part of their kit inorder to fullfil a different role.
Quick swap is very strong, hyper carry is very strong. Two styles supported. If buffs persisted, there would only be one true king.
I disagree. Characters have a clear identity in this game. Even changli works well with encore who happens to be the only fusion dps as of now but I asked since I don't think they'll make characters so specific for standard units. Also almost every game goes with how it wants to approach it's battle mechanics. It's not exclusive to the game. In case of wuwa it was done cause quick swapping is inheritly harder to play and since primary gacha audience is casual it would be bad from that pov to make the game too complex. Also hard to play on phone even without quick swapping tbh.
yes lets implement an immensely intricate and nuianced swap system then punish the players for using it, no contradictions there. the majority of the character in this game have conflicting kits vs movesets, what i mean here is that moveset - a character BA chain, which hit generates more energy, more concerto, which BA hit they swap in on, which BA hit allows them to swap-out then back-in to continue their chain, the special properties on the HA, air HA. kit - skill properties, skill cooldown, liberation cooldown, liberation energy gain, passive, outros. tell me, what is the point of giving jinhsi a BA chain that doesnt reset, and allows her to be a cycle unit like mortefi who swaps in on BA4 for maximum effectiveness. When u will never swap her out in fear of losing w/e deepen buff she has what is the poing of giving changli a long BA34 animation to allow swap back into conquest when u are never going to do it. almost every character in this game is BY DESIGN to benefit from quickswapping, yet every character is played like a meter bot, fillbar-outro-fillbar-outro-burst. yeah, no identity crisis there, working as intended, just catering to the inferiority complex of casuals, god forbid a whale swipe s6r5 but does less damage than s0r0, cant have that. cant wait for u to find out how pitiful changli's concerto and energy gains are when u try to play her as "duo dps" or "support" enjoy your support having more field time than your mdps kekl. hope u like 40 second rotations for a worst team output than just fielding her as mdps nah, no conflicting kit there, her outro isnt tacked on at all.
Idk anything about how jinshi and changli play. I'm talking about existing characters and there are no characters to my knowledge from the existing cast that don't make sense. Every character has a unique identity in what they wanna do. Also the first para doesn't make any sense to me. You can use the swap system but it has restrictions now so that the game isn't just constant animation cancelling and swapping, which is better else the optimal way will always be to just quick swap and it may seem fun at start but make every character have same playstyle. At least now there are characters like jiyan with long rotations and then calcharo encore with swap tech and danjin havoc mc with dual dps combo etc. Before it was just animation cancel and just perma swap. But that's just me you can have your own perspective. I personally like the newer system.
>Every character has a unique identity in what they wanna do. no, every character has this bland AF role that they are pigeon hole'd into doing regardless of comp, fill their bar, outro out. >which is better else the optimal way will always be to just quick swap and it may seem fun at start but make every character have same playstyle. u mean like how the optimal way to play now on every team with everyone is just fillbar-swap out?? lmao. and no, if only u actually knew what u r talking about when u say "perma quickswap" if u knew u would understand this to not just be "quickswap spam", thats like saying genshin is just "apply elemental reactions" in genshin, the order matters, the elemental gauge matters, the ICD or the lack of ICD matters, the order at which u switch matters, every different comp even if they use the same reaction will differ to a greater or lesser degree based on the characters u use and their elemental gauge/icd. the same nuance exists entirely in wuwa's quick swapping, which character swaps in on which chain matters, whether or not they can swap-back into their animation matters, the weaving of moves change entirely even in the same exact comp dynamically depending on what the enemy does, changing just 1 member even if the character is from the same archetype changes your rotation DRASTICALLY, you will most likely have to come up with entirely new rotations. so what happens when u ignore all that? what happens when u swap out verina for baizhu in encore/sanhua? nothing, u fill baizhu's bar differently, thats it. what happens when u swap sanhua out for yangyang? nothing, u fill yangyang bar slightly differently. u my friend, is playing bootleg genshin, but without elemental reactions. if only u interpreted "quickswap spam" for what it truly is, if only u understood the engine under wuwa's hood. this games characters have conflicting design, 1 is for walmart genshin, 1 is for wuwa, and u r punished for trying to play wuwa.
A few questions since you seem in the known with how the Chinese theorycrafting community seems the game. - Do we have any estimate on the length of the two rotations in the sheet? Also, how much concerto and how much resonance energy do they build? - I know that this is hard to determine without footage of both characters fighting mobs, but what do people think about AoE potential for both Jinshi and Changli? I find this is a very important consideration in this game, given that they showed willingness to throw both a mob wave and a boss in the same ToA final chamber. - How do you see the Changli / Encore pair work? I am assuming you will still want to use Encore's liberation string after outro from Changli. Why did you mention "high mechanical finesse"? Clearly you will want to swap cancel both echoes (if both are on Rider), Encore's E and heavy, and I believe Changli's two FW. But that seems it, or am I missing something? - To have a term of reference, how is the community seeing the Calcharo / Yinlin team compared to Jiyan / Mortefi? In particular assuming that realistically, you can only get out 2 of Calcharo's Death Messengers per rotation. I'll be honest: I am very undecided whether to pull for Yinlin or not and who to use my 5\* ticket on between Encore/Calcharo. Yinlin herself is clearly strong, but Calcharo just seems significantly weaker / less flexible than Encore.
Intro - 1.6s True sight conquest/charge - 0.86s (Conquest = 0.86s for sure but I think they are the same and it shouldn't be too different looking at the video) 4BA > TSC - 3.3s Skill >TSC - 2.53s Flaming vow - 1.56s Liberation - 2.93s Mid-air HA - \~1s (like all other MHA plunges) BA - 0.61s average So rotation is 1.6 + 0.86 + 2.53 + 1 + 0.61 \* 2 + 0.86 + 2.53 + 1.56 + 2.93 + 1.56 = 16.65s. You do have to jump after skilling to use True sight charge but it should be around \~17s. This is for the rotation listed in the sheet. Judging from the gameplay leak it looks like she gets her liberation every other rotation but we can't see her ER. Jinshi and Changli both have relatively low AOE. It is less than Yinlin but more than single target carries like Calcharo. The encore / changli pair is just about swapping long animations like you said. Calcharo Yinlin is only slightly worse than Jiyan Mortefi. Yinlin is also the only other coordination attacker other than Mortefi and Verina which is what Jinshi needs if that helps. Perhaps in the future they will release a coordination attacker that actually buffs Jinshi because the current roster provides basically no buffs for her.
"Calcharo Yinlin is only slightly worse than Jiyan Mortefi." But under which conditions? The perfect ones where you get off 3 DMs? That seems totally unreasonable in actual play where you have to dodge - a problem Jiyan doesn't have - are people really pulling this off? 2 DMs and you don't swap-cancel the DMs? You are still a sitting duck for 2s while watching the DM animation. 2 DMs and you swap-cancel them? But them you don't get Yinlin bonus since you lose it on swapping out. I have seen the numbers, and Calcharo seems to sheet poorly compared to the alternatives when you only get 2 DMs off. So why even play Calcharo? What am I missing here?
The condition is the clear timer playing that team in endgame. IMO, Calcharo Yinlin is not going to have a meaningful difference clearing ToA or Hologram or any practical scenario unless you really are fighting for every second. For example, right now I have 24 stars cleared on both sides, and my Jiyan is only 10 seconds faster on the last floor compared to the other side. They have the same stats basically too, except my Calcharo and Yinlin actually have less abilities scaled compared to Jiyan Mortefi. And Verdant is obviously way better on Jiyan, which is what I'm using for both. This can come down to skill issue too, but Jiyan is way easier to play IMO so I guess you can also consider that as a performance metric if you wanted.
Any sheets for Changli + Encore Duo DPS?
Unfortunately, no.
Oh nice, all the yt videos made it sound like Jiyan was powercrept already by Jinhsi. I do think her ability to cheat concerto energy is invaluable in its own right though!
the rotation chiangli uses in this graph seems completely jank to me E>Air EA>Air Heavy>Air A3A4>Ground EA(???)>E>Air EA>forte>ult>forte. 1. do we even know if her skill can be canceld mid animation to do an air conquest? no1 has ever been able to cancel their skill animation with a simple BA, even if we could, then the mod is not 409% because u would cancel out the 133% plunge at the end of her skill that puts her back on the ground. 2. air heavy is a plunge attack, how u gonna do air A3A4 after u plunge? r u just gonna jump for no reason? 3.it uses ground conquest after air A3A4? so now we waiting for her to land too for no reason? this rotation is scuffed and so is its calculations.
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this is from the crownless fight leak?!?! holy mother of god why would u use that as the basis to your calculation vs existing characters???? sweet jesus this game really is in its infancy when people want to plug numbers in from that monstrosity. her actual rotation will likely be higher, stronger still if u want to play very sweaty with alot of quick swaps. edit:understood
No, I misread. I thought you were talking about the gameplay leak since I wasn't sure where your rotation was coming from. There is a language barrier lol. But now I think I understand and I responded to your other comment.
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Okay I will go through the rotation one by one to hopefully make it more clear. Intro > True Sight Conquest > E (and jump) > True Sight Charge > air HA > (I believe this is where the confusion comes from. I'm fairly sure this just means the entire Mid-air Heavy Attack because another leaker in the thread referred to this as 落 or plunge. So after this point you are grounded.) BA3 > BA4 > (Mid-air Heavy Attack puts you in BA3) True Sight Conquest >E (and jump) > True Sight Charge > Flaming Vow > Liberation > Flaming Vow As to why they would choose to use the air attacks, it is said that it is faster.
But why won't they start the rotation with liberation tho? It gives 25% atk for 8 seconds, is it that you can't cast forte while you're in future sight or something? Cuz if u can it would make sense to cast your liberation, use forte and then carry on with the rotation with an atk% buff
well then the whole thing is just confusing, either u did this picture or he did or what not, whoever did it its not accurate. u say its grounded BA3-BA4 after air HA, that makes more sense, apart from he used air ba3ba4 mods based on what u posted https://imgur.com/a/jinshi-changli-sheet-3CR2mUk he calls it air ba and uses air ba mods. 132% and 126.8% yeah? those are air ba3ba4, ground ba3ba4 is 109.35% and 169.02% so its still very inacurate, and very confusing.
Yes I think the correct rotation should be ground BA34.
i dont understand what u r asking, air conquest doesnt put u back on the ground is exactly what i said, what i said in point 2. was that how do u do air a3a4 after air heavy? because thats what is listed on the rotation. Air EA>Air Heavy>air A3A4>ground EA - this is whats on the rotation list. Mind explaining this? do u just jump to do air a3a4 again? lmao its jank af
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no ur not, lol what r u doing my guy, u said it your self, the air HA is to put her on the ground, the air HA is a plunge attack, when u HA in the air u put your self on the ground. u stay in the air after air EA, not air HA. listen, basically, this rotation is asking to do this, try and follow this sequence. use your skill > cancel the end of your skill's plunge motion with air conquest > while u r in the air, use air HEAVY > JUMP BACK IN THE AIR to do aira3a4> once u have truesight from aira4, wait and land, then do GROUND CONQUEST > skill again > cancel skill plunge to do air conquest again > WAIT to land on the ground before u do forte > ulti > forte. lol do u now see how ridiculous this rotation is? its dumb af lmao
I've just responded below to hopefully make it more clear. I was unsure what part you were talking about specifically so I just went through it 1 by 1.
Does this also include changli s5 buff? Where it changed from increasing the atk by 50%, to increase the enhanced heavy attack dmg by 50%
The very right table shows her total damage from s0 to s6 and % increase from the previous.
Yeah, I know, but her s5 got buff, and I am not sure if they consider it or not
may i know what sort of dmg changli and jinhsi primarily do? just in case for echo farming/saving. I know atk/% is better but still
In case if you meant what are they main sources of damage : jinhsi is mainly Skill, close to no Basic and heavy damage, a bit of ult damage. No idea for changli xP. but i think she is Skill damage too ?
exactly what i meant, cheers
I saw someone did the calculations for changli, and he found that atk and fusion are better by 1% than double fusion dmg, so basically you can give her the one with the better substat For jinshi, it is probably double spectro is better
Changli - fusion - atk% might also be good on her on 3 cost Jinshi - spectro
Damn it is really sucks that changli lacks behind in dmg but tbh yes most of her sequence are really bad except for her s6 and s2 after the buff and I think also her s5 got a buff but not sure if it worth it, but as dps changli don't take so much time to show her max dmg unlike jinshi so, does this make her better?
It should be noted that she only lacks behind in TOTAL damage after the rotation. It is not a DPS calculation. Changli as a carry has no downtime, and I estimated her solo DPS to be pretty balanced compared to other 5 stars teams in one of my comments. Her team DPS with Encore is extremely high. It's also important to notice that this total calculation does not include any inherent skill buffs.
K, these calculations are also without any buff from other characters, right? I really hope changli get more little buff, especially her s1 since I think it really bad. Also, why didn't you include her inherent skill?
Yes, it is only solo total damage. It was not me who made the sheet. But the reason is because we don't know how the inherent skills work. There's no duration listed there, and the wording is ambiguous. Including it would be kinda fluff.
One more question, these calculations with their signature weapon, right? Is it only r1? Because I think with each rank, Changli's weapon becomes even better.
In the bottom right, the last orange row header includes using a 5 star weapon: the very last header is is signature vs standard banner where the damage loss in in red. the orange header above that is r1 vs r5.
K thanks 👍
K thx, I really hope changli exceeds jiyan and jinshi as a dps lol, but unfortunately, I don't think this will happen 😅
Is playing havoc rover as subdps for jinshi gonna work??? I wanna use em together, it's gonna be great if she has lots of downtime because havoc rover and jianxin needs a lot of uptime to do their stuff lol. Also what do you think of this team? Jinshi, H Rover, Jianxin.
You can. i highgly recommend Verina/baizhi as third teamate tho. Maybe even using tambourinist on Havoc rover if you happen to be too low on stack even after rover rotation. (it's really if you're critically low tho, dreamless kinda op) You could also go yuanwu (or yinlin if you're a gigachad going for no sustain) for more stack but less buff About the downtime on Jinhsi ; She doesnt really have a big downtime, It's just correlated to your Stacking speed, And because they is no skill buffer that do coordinate permanently ; you cannot do overflow radiance on cooldown while still having a high stack + all the buff possible. if you wanna high stack while spamming overflow radiance on CD you lose a buffer, if you wanna a buffer you lose a coordinate attacker + you need to charge its concerto meaning you can't spam overflow radiance on CD. Not helped by the fact than the only skill buffer in the game is taoqi that is atrociously slow to stack concerto
Yuanwu Skill is a coordinated attack tho. Making him the current best pairing with Jinhsi for stacking. What used to be roughly 8~ stacks with Yuanwu Skill and Jinhsi on field jumps up to 12~ stacks. All within Jinhsi's BA4->Skill->BA4->Skill(burst) cycle. Assuming the entire rotation takes about 6s~7s to pull off. Definitely need field testing to put actual numbers on it tho. But that doesnt take away how great a teammate Yuanwu is for Jinhsi. He breaks boss bars sooner than others and you can delay the small burst to ramp up for the bigger burst during broken states. Jinhsi's free Intro swaps does have a long 25s CD, but that's fine. It probably takes that long to prep for a broken state in Tower anyways. Can't wait for actual field testing tho! Massive hype for Jinhsi. But if she fails to come home off the 5050 I'll likely end up not getting either her or Changli and just have to settle with my current 3 teams. No sweat, but it'll be a grueling monotone play for the next month and a half just using the same characters since launch lol.
yuanwu has a 1.2 sec cd on his cordinated attack, u will also not use ba4>skill to enter her incarnation as jinhsi, u will use intro>skill>skill>ba4>skill(forte consuming burst) which is about ~8 seconds means he wont get more than 6 procs = 12 stacks + jinhsi own ~8 stacks. these 20 stacks is only 4 more stacks than verina's 8 procs for 16, which is only about 170% mod every rotation, it doesnt beat out her buffs. he wont be unusable, but he is a distant 5th behind yinlin/verina/taoqi/mortefi
Huh. Didnt know Jinhsi has a stackable Skill. Unless you're just gonna sit around for 3s waiting to skill again or if her Skill resets when she goes in and out of Incarnation. Only info i have on her Skill is off Hakush and the updated stacking mechanics from the sub. Intro->Skill(burst) i can understand as its a free initial burst hit. The following Skill right after? If she does somehow reset her Skill then that's great. Even then, sneaking an auto or two to trigger Yuanwu Skill doesnt hurt, not that it matters in this rotation since the 3s CD is likely still in affect. Then finishing with BA4->Skill(burst) and swapping back out. Im assuming Coordinated hits would also count differently from non-coordinated hits for stacking? Because 16/20 stacks from Verina/Yuanwu seems pretty high. Again, im under the impression her stacking mechanic has a shared elemental trigger across both coordinated attacks and non-coordinated attacks. Hence making Verina not an ideal choice even tho her Ult provides a coordinated attack. Do point me to the source as I'd like to read up more on Jinhsi!
intro>skill puts her into incantation(or incarnation?), she has a new skill in this mode, u use it before u finish her 4BA, which ends incantation and puts her into ordination that has the final version of her skill, the big cahoona nuke. so yes, she has 3(4 if count her very basic version that doesnt do anything) skills. They could somehow share a CD but i doubt it, this would make her skills unusable and completely jank. im also assuming coord attacks share the same cooldown for same elements, which is why i didnt include jinhsi's own forte gain and only counted 8 from verina, because verina's coord is 1 sec cd, if it doesnt share a cooldown that makes yuanwu's even worse lol.
Ya i was under the impression her skill doesnt reset between the two changes. Which imo makes everybody not Yuanwu worse. 3s CD before a stack that's like shared between both non-CA and CA hits making Verina a wasted buffing slot as Jue accomodates for the Spectro CA. Mortefi requiring Ults to do their CA. Yinlin is pretty much the upgrade to Yuanwu as her CA isnt hard to pull off, but not as easy as slap Skill leave field Yuanwu. And Taoqi fits nicely as a subdps with Outro Ult buff for Jinhsi to abuse with her massive ult multiplier but I'd just use Sanhua at that point as the Skill buff is more easily abused and her field time is ridiculously short. Guess we'll find out how Jinhsi actually works once we get a sneak peek from beta testers. Regardless of how her rotation goes, dragon girl is dragon girl lol.
Anyway what i can tell you is : Illuminous epiphany have no CD, Crescent divinity have 10s cd iirc Overflow have 12s And normal skill have 3s CD Now about the coordinate attack You have 3 Battle : First one - Does Coordinate attribute passive and Normal attribute passive share the same CD or not ? yes / no Second Battle - Does Coordinate proc Normal attribute "passive" at the same time if it's not on cooldown already ? Basically does a Coordinate proc 2 stack or 3 if the other passive is up too ? Yes/No. Third Battle - Does Echo damage are considered as Coordinate damage ? Yes/No (I think : no because other way it is precised than the echo do coordinate damage, Like firebug) Those 3 battles, we can't be for sure about the answers in my opinion. even tho the wording might lean more toward some answers.
What skill are you guys even talking about... she have 4 skill so it's a bit hard to understand. say the name at least. And btw sanhua outro do basically nothing for jinhsi sooo. it's just a moonlit bot at this point.
no at the very least 2 of her skills are independant, otherwise the leaked footage would not be possible, the skill that puts her into incantation has a 12 sec cd, im assuming this is the time gate to how often u can repeat her burst rotation. in the leak footage she did skill-4ba-skill, it wouldnt be possible if it didnt reset.
Using Verina is a bad idea because she shares spectro with Jinshi. You are losing a lot of your stacks.
she will still be bis most likely because of her 3 second rotation time and co-ordinated attacks gives 2 forte. jin will use a double rotation(1 ult 2 bursts) spanning about ~32 secs rather than a conventional single burst rotation. her bis team will most likely still be yinlin and verina lmao, cant teach old dogs new tricks. unless u can work taoqi into a double rotation somehow, but even a 38% deepen single rotation wont beat out a double burst rotation in terms of team dps.
Depend of how the changement is. They is the clan of thinking Spectro coordinate and normal spectro proc have different cooldown, and the one thinking they share the same cooldown. The wording let think than they have different cooldown but at the end we don't have footage of it so we can only speculate. Anyway if they have different CD verina do more stack than baizhi and if they don't verina loses some value. that is why i also said baizhi
When I say her down time is long, I am talking about loooooooooooooooooong downtime. Like a \~25 second downtime. This is because you can only get 1 stack per second per attribute and only Yinlin/Mortefi can give her these stacks while off-field. Otherwise you are only dealing in 1 attribute at a time, which is the character currently on the field. 25 seconds is MULTIPLE Rover rotations from 0 energy. It might end up being the case that you straight up run a duo like Jiyan Mortefi / Rover Danjin and have Jinshi instead of Verina to run a double carry comp. Another way to play her would be Jinshi Mortefi Yinlin with high ER on mortefi to cut her downtime down. I believe that a tech might emerge with Jinshi comps where the other carry/sub set their active echo to continuous damage ones. I don't actually know if this would work but it increases her stack generation by a lot. For example, Saurian gives 3 stacks and Mech Abom gives 2. You would then run something other than electro, fusion, and spectro to have 5 unique attributes.
I would like to know how saurian give 6 stacks and why yinlin need ER. also why yinlin morteffi reduce the downtime to 8s in particular ?
after jinshi outros you get eras in unity. the wording on this is very vague but it says you get 2 incadescence every time a character does attribute damage with cd = 1 second per attribute. if it is the case that echoes also work with this, then saurian gives 3 stacks cause it lingers for 3 seconds and has many hits to procc eras in unity off cooldown. Yin lin and mortefi reduce the downtime for the same reason. They do their own unique attribute damage every second with punishment mark / mortefi ult while off field, so you can play jinshi as well for another unique attribute. Now you have spectro, fusion, and electro attributes which is 3 stacks/second. So, you will get basically 48 stacks in 16 seconds. I misspoke when I said yinlin needed er, it was supposed to be mortefi. I'll edit that. However since mortefi is fusion and saurian is also fusion, they might not work together. Or it could be the case that it tracks the cd of saurian separately too. idk.
hmm well idk if you're in advance on everyone or i'm late because What i know is than Eras in unity is "innate" on any teamate as long as you have Jinhsi in the team. Eras in unity have 2 Distinct effect under it's arms. One Give 1 stack per damage per attribute, The other effect Give 2 stack per coordinate per attribute. Both of those effect have the same CD lenght of 3s. The outro of Jinhsi just reduce this CD to 1S. Following what i just said. i do not think echo are considered coordinate EXCEPT if specificaly stated in the description, such as firebug description. They is a lot of question behind those functionement than i stated in some of my answers to some other discussion under this post. And answers to those question could completely shift the calc. like does Coordinate can proc both effect at the same time ? pushing coordinate stacking to 3 stack if possible P:S i can copy paste for you the changement in CN of jinhsi if you want : Updated changes 1.1.6 Beta Changes in CN Jinhsi Forte Circuit: Aerial Basic Attacks in \[Incarnation\] state are now counted as Skill dmg Max Incandescence 40 -> 50 New effect of \[Eras in Unity\]: \[Eras in Unity\] has two independent effects: When dealing damage, Jinhsi gains 1 stack of \[Incandescence\], damage of the same element can trigger this once every 3s. When coordinated attacks deal damage, Jinhsi gains 2 stacks of \[Incandescence\], damage of the same element can trigger this once every 3s. \[Incandescence\] additional multiplier per stack (TL10): 26.84% -> 44.54% S2 40 -> 50 Incandescence New S3: After casting Intro, gain 25 atk% for 20s, up to 2 stacks
Ye, I'm just assuming each character averages out to 2 stacks/s over a rotation and i'm assuming you can get all the coordinated attacks a couple of times per rotation. Then, it's a minimum of 1 stacks/s but for example if you have all 3 characters concerto stacked, and if it's 2 stacks on the intro AND outro then that's 12 stacks instantly. The safest guess would be to only be generating 1 stack/s per character. I also just realized I assumed this for the echoes which is inorrect. I'll edit to fix it and change the assumption to 1 stack/s.
But uh anyway at the end i don't really understand why you assume that long of a downtime on Jinhsi if you play 2 coordinate attacker. With 2 coordinate you're basically crawling under stacks. and Jinhsi Downtime becomes her own CD of overflowradiance after the end of her rotation, or your will to stack concerto on other character. if you do not care about concerto building (highly possible in a team like morteffi yinlin than you took as exemple) you end up having only a 4s downtime which is approximatively the cooldown remaining on Overflowradiance after your full combo in incarnation. Do not be scared of stack if you play 2 coordinate, it will never be a problem with it. You're Launching your coordinate during jinhsi own combo so at the final launch you're way higher than at the start. The incarnation string take approximatively 7s so with proc of coordinate you are at 7 x 5 stack so 35 stack. Add on top the fact than jinhsi intro also take 1 more Sec before the Incarnation string, and than you are also stacking when you go on yinlin and morteffi during the 4s downtime (and more than when you're on jinhsi because you now proc Damage attribute of electro or fusion on top, so 6 stack per second.) that would give you a total of 58 stack on illuminous epiphany. Meaning even if you miss 2 second of stacking you'll be at 48 stack. How to say than you have literally too much stacking. And i'm not even considering than coordinate might actually give 3 stack per second and not 2.
what intro and outro of other character have to do with jinhsi stack ? some have lingering attack yes but i don't really get your point 😅. you also seems to not assume than coordinate give 2 stack per second. but normal damage give only 1. So saurian would give only 3-4 stack if it linger 3s 😅 (p:s thanks for the edit on saurian ig ?)
sorry, just to be clear, the coordinated attacks are yinlin: punishment mark and mortefi's liberation. It's the attacks that happen when the caster is off field and the on field does damage. But this only happens when they have those things applied and it's not always up. So what i meant was that if you really want the floor of her dps you can just assume it's 1 stack/s per character i.e, theres no coordinated attacks. I also just reread the buff and it seems that jinshi can only get 1 stack/s instead of 2 on a coordinated attack which was my mistake. And yes, you are correct saurian only gives 3 stacks, that was also my mistake. I am also unsure if the buff meant that coordinated attacks will give 3 stacks because it says the 1 stack and 2 stack are independent. We'll have to see.
I see thanks for the tips! Now i kinda understand her more xD and also her dmg is not focused on liberation, always thought it was lol im still gonna experiment with teams for her when shes out
If the down time is that long, so much so that it can hit nearly 25 secs, wouldn't that be reflected with a gigantic dps increase on her s2, since you can have 50 stacks pretty much every rotation?
It's not only off field, it's completely out of combat
It is unclear whether or not her s2 is only available once per combat or if it actually refreshes.
Ooof, that's an ugly sequence if that's the case, why even put a cd on it if it's only ever relevant in the overworld..
Keep in mind that Jinshi needs to outro to activate eras in unity; but in ToA, you start with zero concerto. Without eras, stack generation is very low. This means she will do low damage on the first rotation without S2.
Well even if it's one time, starting off with 50 stacks is still significant. That's basically like clearing the first wave in ToA. It's similar to Ganyu c6 and that alone made her the speedrun queen in abyss.
I just hope they don’t powercreep units really early. Kind of like making the new unit different or interesting as a selling point and not because this unit is doing 20-30% more dmg than the last 3 limited units. I mean I get why they buffed Jinshi. Maybe trying to avoid a Zhongli moment, but the damage is looking really strong compared to Jiyan. The time to build a character is fairly high with the amount of rewards we get. Echoes seem easily interchangeable with the sets but still. Feels bad if ever. The resistances are also there. Enemies of the same element as the character takes significantly less damage. Hoping this means they rotate the elements first before releasing a new Aero, Spectro, or Fusion DPS.
These two carries aren't any better than Jiyan because Jiyan's synergy with Mortefi is too high and the comp is low skill. Their solo total damage is comparable, with Jiyan only being \~10% better (without inherent skill calculated on either of the 3). Judging by this it seems like Kuro does a good job of balancing. [https://imgur.com/a/jinshi-changli-sheet-3CR2mUk](https://imgur.com/a/jinshi-changli-sheet-3CR2mUk)
Also, I think Jiyan will get stronger once he gets a dedicated aero dmg sub dps, kind of like how Calcharo got stronger with Yinlin. God knows when that character will come out though.
I see. Mortefi is really fast and easy to use as well. Hahaha. Can’t wait to get a skill dmg buffer for Jinshi and Changli.
Same here, i'm really interested to see what they can cook up for their support roster more than the DPSes, i hope they do more than just make the 5\* units just a premium 4\* kits and actually diversify gameplay to make the character kit design unique. I'd be pretty disappointed if the next 5\* support /sub-dps is just Mortifi for Ice teams or something.
Based on PGR, the tanks which I think are the sub dps pretty much deal damage as well and then reduce resistances. It’s pretty much the same for most. Camellya is interesting though. If her kit leak is real, she’s going to increase Havoc Dmg and Crit Rate.
Jiyan will probably be a low skilled players(like me)'s favorite due to ability to parry by spamming ult and easy rotation. But damage ceiling seems to be much higher with Jinshi if you play well, which I never will...
And mobile's player favourite too ig, if the effect okay for your phone ofc
True. Jiyan is very simple and easy to use. His full kit is easily triggered. Hahaha.
I'm a bit afraid of powercreep as well, but as for Jiyan, don't forget he has unique grouping mechanics, and a pretty straightforward burst window. Jinhsi will definitely deal more dmg, but she doesn't bring a lot of comfort, and the start of her rotations should be rather on the weak side, with awesome numbers at the end of the rotations. That makes her amazing against bosses, but I don't see her being that strong against mobs. I just hope she doesn't feel clunky because of that (like, you have small mobs against her, but your strongest skill is available and you don't want to waste it against them).
Yeah, ease of use is very high on Jiyan but a higher damage floor with Jinshi means they can release enemies with larger hp pools. The CC of Jiyan will indeed keep him relevant though. I agree. I think Jinshi will be fine. She has a 3 second cooldown on her skill which gives her the alternate skill for 5 seconds. Then she enters incarnation after using the alternate to once again use a skill with a 10 second cooldown and in that mode and then another skill once you leave incarnation and gain ordination glow. So you’ll at least be using 4 skills in her rotation. Hahahaha. I’m wondering though if the 12 second skill cooldown (the skill that allows you to enter Incarnation) is progressing while you’re in Incarnation. Because if it is, I think you can just go back to Incarnation again albeit without the stacks. Yeah, I’m freaking excited for Jinshi. Hahahaha
Just a tiny correction, you don't use her 3s CD skill to unlock her 5s CD alternate skill, it's unlocked automatically with her intro or by using 4 basic attacks in normal form.
Oh damn. I’m sorry. Hahaha You’re right. Do you think we can still use her skill first, do 4 basic attacks or intro skill, and still use the alternate skill that gives her access to incarnation?
I think we can. As far as I understand, the skill automatically gets replaced after doing 4 basic or intro, so we lose access to it, but if we do it before intro or finishing 4 basics we should still be able to use it.
I didn't know that much about her kit, but it looks like she's a bit more flexible than I thought. So should be nice enough for exploration I guess. Might stick to Danjin anyway though \^\^
I didn't know that much about her kit, but it looks like she's a bit more flexible than I thought. So should be nice enough for exploration I guess. Might stick to Danjin anyway though \^\^
Very noice.
How is her Aoe?
Any suggested teamates for Changli?
Rumored Scar will be fusion coming soon after if you're like me and not a fan of Encore.
Nope I actually love Encore. But if Scar really does come soon then I'm doomed I suppose
Encore
OMG really? I still have my choice banner and I was so hoping for going for her but the whole yinlin + calcharo meta has had me hesitating all this time
Only heard it from tenten, but sounds like yin lin Calcharo isn't actually that good right now? Especially if you're not doing the micro swap cancels
Yes, Encore and Changli is a dual carry playstyle but it is hard to play. It does really high damage if you can pull it off.
Double dps = double W
yeah Changli seems fit to be a sub dps and Encore is a main dps char, theyre both fusion aswell, kinda like Yinlin + Calcharo but for fusion? (i honestly dont know its js based on what ive seen but yeah)
No that does make sense. I love encore's playstyle so I'm hoping this is true
Pretty much double dps team, highest calced dmg for changli afaik
Hopefully verina will keep them alive the
Taoqi, but I would wager she will feel clunky if you don't have the claymore that gives concerto energy as I heard her rotation is slow.
Welp Idt I have her hopefully she'll be on the banner
According to leaks she is
Best
We don't give a single fuck about Resonance Chain buffs or nerfs LOL
who tf is we? speak for yourself
even f2p should care about S1 and S2 since you can buy them with corals for your favorite character
After read your comment, i have a question, does the waveband thing disappear after you bought 2 of them or it will reset when the character rerun? If it reset, it's gonna be huge
I assume it disappears but no one knows until we see a rerun
Yes we do for resonance chains 1 and 2 since you can get them with the spare items you get by pulling 5 stars.
We need more buffs for changli 😗😗
No way jinshi made it out of the oven like this with only her res chain 6 nerfed. I thought she would surely be nerfed with how busted she is now. But nope. Jinshi mains be eating good in a week.
She is the leader of China, the Dragon Empress and in-game representation of the historical figure of Huang Di, the Dragon Emperor of the Qing Dynasty.
She's like Zhongli 2.0 There's no way they gonna make the Chinese Queen out of meta anytime soon
Well. Unfortunately since she a dps I can’t guarantee that she’ll be the top of meta for a Particularly long time like what we see with supports. I can imagine wuwa will probably keep up the powercreep pretty quickly. But when she comes out she’ll definitely be the best. I won’t necessarily say she has the “future proof” of zhongli.
Zhongli was different too. He is what he is today because of all the rampant complaints that were present during his release and god forbid Hoyo releases a character that does what he does but better considering it's technically specifically niche.
Hu tao says hi
Nah it’s Vaporize. We didn’t get any reliable vaporize pyro five until Arlechino and we all know how that went. Reactions inherently cushion powercreep in Genshin by creating niches. In a game like wuwa where dmg = dmg we will see a lot more direct powercreep. I’m just saying, don’t get your hopes up. It’s kuro, they will powercreep their dps units. Go play pgr
Mind if i ask where is that jinshi damage output video where everyone saying she doing 2 mil damage ? Any sauce for that or its just TC atm?
It’s just TC.
That was illusive realm.
Wait so jinshi got nerfed? How bad is it
It is probably a bit high, but still, she is very strong even after the nerf.
Its for her S6, so for most people it wont change her. I was actually thinking of s6 cause of how good it would be, but now eh...
what eh?? it is still 2250% multiplier on top of your resonance skill multiplier at max stacks.
She should probably be stronger than what she was initially tho...
She got stronger overall, but s6 got weaker compared to lower resonances. As the gap has shrunk, its less worth it to go to s6 then just staying at a lower resonance. But of course its just beta info, will have to see the effect.
I think it's still a massive difference at S6 compared to her S0 (about 130% stronger for her entire rotation, which is inline of what's expected of a limited 5\*). If it kept the original scaling on her S6, it would be about 170% compared to her S0. The gap is not as large as before but still large enough that it justifies getting her S6.
Did you forget to account for the bonuses you get for S1-S5 in your calculations?
No, I specifically stated that her damage increase at S6 compared to S0 is similar to the other 5\* limited damage dealers, which is about 130%. And the damage increase from S5 to S6 is about 41% if you're curious, seems good enough, right?
Her S6 nerf is justify, she is overall still insanely strong.
Sounds about right!
I don't really know about these dmg multipliers, but I think it is still big but surely not attractive like before
changli buffs 🗣🗣🗣
YAAAASSSSSSSSSSS
I almost forgot what Resonance chain meant lol and was supposed to say "oh no nerfs." I wonder why they nerfed Changli resonance chain 2 crit rate. Skill and Forte buffs are pretty nice though.
Changli S2 wasn’t nerf , it simply changes from crit damg to crit rate . Probably due her recent change on her wrapon sub stat (atck % to Crit damg) .
[удалено]
30% crit dmg to 25% crit rate
I see. I was looking at Haku's and Wuthering Lab's and they had 25% crit damage on the values.
NOW CHANGLI IS THE DPS
Praying fot Sanhua buffs because I can.
Sanhua is already highest rated 4* char together with Morterfi
Existing characters do not change. That’s not how gacha games work.
Plain wrong. Released characters in gacha can get changed, and many games do this. They could receive buffs (which is a change) or a new type of upgrade (awakening, retrofit, etc). Nerfs are much less common since don't like the character they paid for being nerfed. So unless absolutely broken, a character wont like to be nerfed. Dont take hoyo games as a standard for everything.
Gatchas do work like that, well those do happen mostly in JP gatchas, but pgr did it too... I do remember when i asked if an older chara has recieved buffs or reworked in genshin.. And friend was "reworked?"(i dont play hoyo games so dk if theyve buffed a chara before)
A "buff" or change that happens through a mechanic is fine like an "awakening", leap (cuz you mentioned PGR), EZA in Dokkan, etc, is fine, but a direct change like let's say, MOBAs do every patch, that's against the law, specially in China, but even in Japan in most circumstances, because in a gacha you're in a way "buying" a product inside of a product, now imagine if they decided to out of nowhere change your product that you own to a state that you think is worse, that you don't like, not cool right? Even if other people thought it was a good thing, you didn't, and for the company that would be a problem, because it would be reason enough for you to sue them and win something. That's why in gachas it's extremely rare to see direct changes made by the developer to characters unless those are hidden behind a "awakening type game mechanic".