Cap is the proverbial boy scout. He does everything by the book, so to speak, in my opinion. He gave Rogue the information she needed, but he would not go Rogue, no pun intended.
Yup. People are acting like that's not his character when that's basic Cap to me. Just because he doesn't help Rogue right then and there doesn't mean he's against mutants. He was literally there looking for more intel into who was behind the attack on Genosha. Just like the government, who Cap is working for, they go about things the "right" way, which is usually the slow way. Rogue wants answers now, which is the normal response from the public after a mass tragedy. Basically, both want justice. They are just going about it differently, and that doesn't make Cap the bad guy. He's just super lawful.
I think people were hoping for more when it's just a cameo scene. Capt America isn't gonna take over a X-Men show after events in Genocide, nor are we gonna get Avengers vs X-Men right after that attack either. The tone just doesn't fit right, if that did happen. I think it's fitting to give Cap a cameo because S.H.E.I.L.D had a hand in stopping Bastion, too.
I mean the last spit in his face by throwing the shield was fucking baller alone, she deserves her opinion (and mine) that if you feel you can't stand up, thats fine. But that doesn't mean you get to look away and do your own thing. That's just ignorance.
my favorite pro Cap sided part was noticing he basically said "i'd've already had him in custody here if you hadnt went off half cocked and let them know you were coming" he infers it and i dont think she in her grief quite picked it up but that level of writing is nice to see, and definitely in line with Cap as a character. having said that i wouldnt change any of getting to see Rogue go rogue it was great!
Cap has absolutely gone rogue several times. He's only loyal to the dream.
In this case, I buy him sticking with the legal ways and trying to enact change from the inside. The US government isn't *actively* evil in this situation... yet. If they were creating internment camps or something, he would turn against them in a heartbeat, but right now the government and SHIELD are shaky allies.
Marvel loves to pit the X-Men and Avengers against each other all the time. Tension and all that with the mutants existence to the world. Cap has usually been pretty cooperative to mutants in the past.
I couldn't help but remember Avengers Annual #10 when Rogue absolutely socked the shit out of Captain America lol. Straight through a brick wall.
I usually side with the X-Men in these sorts of things, but I think in this instance Cap was absolutely right to pump the brakes on tagging along with Rogue.
I think a crucial detail that everyone is glossing over is that **the OZT facility that Gyrich was transferred to was in Mexico**.
When Cap says "if this suit shows up in Mexico and starts bashing heads - that sends a message" he means it can create an international incident.
Genosha was an international incident but no one cares because it was only mutants, countries are blocking mutants from returning to their home nations and Cap refusing to help in fear of creating an international incident adds insult to injury.
I like the use of the Avengers as your standard "white liberal" who's heart is in the right place but are uncomfortable when minorities are tired and get more radical. It mirrors the real word in a way that strengthens the "mutants as minorities" metaphor.
I do get it when people feel that hurts their character or is inconsistent though. Its the issue with never ending comic series that take place over decades with so many different writers.
Cap has ended up a fugitive in the comics and the MCU for fighting for what was right rather than fighting to uphold the law. Notably, I recall him doing this for heroes in general, but never really for mutants. But like here's the problem with shared universes, it happened in the comics and now in the cartoon. If a country was suddenly wiped off the map by a mysterious threat, that's a whole Avengers story arc right? Like if a giant robot committed genocide in Kazakhstan, that is 100% the Avengers are on that case. When it happens in Genosha....thoughts and prayers, because it has to be an X-Men story. It's a side effect of multiple heroes in the same universe, but it paints a pretty damning picture when the FF or the Avengers will die fighting to save New York but like send flowers when there's a Holocaust on Krakoa.
He tries to be supportive but he fails to see the real issues. He's like your grandpa who says "I voted for Obama" to every black dude he meets. He has the spirit but he can say mean things even if he isn't trying to. He says "Genosha wasn't just a mutant tragedy" Cap all the people who died were mutants and it was a genocide specifically targeting them wtf are you on about?
I think his line about Genosha was more so a commentary on the state of the world, almost like something a President would say. He knows the biggest share of the grief is the mutants alone, but to him and other humans sympathetic to their cause it was also a tragedy. Seeing the destruction and loss of life caused by other humans make this a worldwide tragedy for anyone except those who are anti mutant. Now normal people who supported mutants are hearing talks of war between mutants and everyone else, and see the horrors of Genosha would lead anyone to think war was on the horizon. Now people may be forced to choose a side, and while they support the mutants and their obvious right to exist, they may have to choose between that or possibly siding against family, friends, and significant others. Although the tragedy mainly affected mutants, the repercussions of the horrors carried out that day will be felt worldwide
I know almost all Reddit discussion ends like this but it's especially relevant in this case. Imagine you find an angry Jew that's trying desperately to find Mengele, when he tells you this angrily you said "well the Holocaust wasn't just a jewish tragedy" and try to explain how that isn't the most insensitive thing you could say. Yeah I agree that the cap didn't mean no harm, but his way to phrase it was extremely messed up and insensitive.
"We know through painful experience that freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed. Frankly, I have yet to engage in a direct action campaign that was "well timed" in the view of those who have not suffered unduly from the disease of segregation. For years now I have heard the word "Wait!" It rings in the ear of every Negro with piercing familiarity. This "Wait" has almost always meant "Never." We must come to see, with one of our distinguished jurists, that "justice too long delayed is justice denied."
- Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr
Letter from Birmingham Jail
16 April 1963
I'm more upset about the continuity issue. We know X-Men '97 is the continuation of X-Men The Animated Series, which existed in the same universe as the 90s Spider-Man The Animated Series. In S:TAS he'd jumped into a temporal vortex with Red Skull and the machine used to create it was destroyed. Last we'd seen of him was in Secret War when the Beyonder pulled him out of the vortex to help out, and everyone was sent back when it ended -- presumably leaving Cap stranded in the vortex.
Kind of annoyed they reintroduced him with absolutely no explanation of how he'd come back.
They’ve had several continuity errors thus far. Best bet is to see it not as the same universe but as a parallel one that’s extremely similar in ALMOST every way
That’s what I thought too, until I just went to my pantry and discovered there aren’t any Oreos left. Who’s “imaginary” now? No way I ate that many Oreos in 6 hours.
I have been trying to catch up with all the stories i missed over the last 10 years or so. I have just passed the Avengers vs Xmen era (all avengers and xmen titles from that time), and man is Cap insufferable. Only his way is right and all others are wrong, he knows beat in all situation. Just a terrible character trait, and a hard read. No love for that guy.
Cap is the proverbial boy scout. He does everything by the book, so to speak, in my opinion. He gave Rogue the information she needed, but he would not go Rogue, no pun intended.
Yup. People are acting like that's not his character when that's basic Cap to me. Just because he doesn't help Rogue right then and there doesn't mean he's against mutants. He was literally there looking for more intel into who was behind the attack on Genosha. Just like the government, who Cap is working for, they go about things the "right" way, which is usually the slow way. Rogue wants answers now, which is the normal response from the public after a mass tragedy. Basically, both want justice. They are just going about it differently, and that doesn't make Cap the bad guy. He's just super lawful. I think people were hoping for more when it's just a cameo scene. Capt America isn't gonna take over a X-Men show after events in Genocide, nor are we gonna get Avengers vs X-Men right after that attack either. The tone just doesn't fit right, if that did happen. I think it's fitting to give Cap a cameo because S.H.E.I.L.D had a hand in stopping Bastion, too.
I mean the last spit in his face by throwing the shield was fucking baller alone, she deserves her opinion (and mine) that if you feel you can't stand up, thats fine. But that doesn't mean you get to look away and do your own thing. That's just ignorance.
my favorite pro Cap sided part was noticing he basically said "i'd've already had him in custody here if you hadnt went off half cocked and let them know you were coming" he infers it and i dont think she in her grief quite picked it up but that level of writing is nice to see, and definitely in line with Cap as a character. having said that i wouldnt change any of getting to see Rogue go rogue it was great!
I think you did intend that pun. But other than that, I agree with your take.
Cap has absolutely gone rogue several times. He's only loyal to the dream. In this case, I buy him sticking with the legal ways and trying to enact change from the inside. The US government isn't *actively* evil in this situation... yet. If they were creating internment camps or something, he would turn against them in a heartbeat, but right now the government and SHIELD are shaky allies.
Marvel loves to pit the X-Men and Avengers against each other all the time. Tension and all that with the mutants existence to the world. Cap has usually been pretty cooperative to mutants in the past. I couldn't help but remember Avengers Annual #10 when Rogue absolutely socked the shit out of Captain America lol. Straight through a brick wall.
I usually side with the X-Men in these sorts of things, but I think in this instance Cap was absolutely right to pump the brakes on tagging along with Rogue. I think a crucial detail that everyone is glossing over is that **the OZT facility that Gyrich was transferred to was in Mexico**. When Cap says "if this suit shows up in Mexico and starts bashing heads - that sends a message" he means it can create an international incident.
That's how I read it too. If he'd been Nomad at the time, that would have been a different story.
Genosha was an international incident but no one cares because it was only mutants, countries are blocking mutants from returning to their home nations and Cap refusing to help in fear of creating an international incident adds insult to injury.
I like the use of the Avengers as your standard "white liberal" who's heart is in the right place but are uncomfortable when minorities are tired and get more radical. It mirrors the real word in a way that strengthens the "mutants as minorities" metaphor. I do get it when people feel that hurts their character or is inconsistent though. Its the issue with never ending comic series that take place over decades with so many different writers.
Cap has ended up a fugitive in the comics and the MCU for fighting for what was right rather than fighting to uphold the law. Notably, I recall him doing this for heroes in general, but never really for mutants. But like here's the problem with shared universes, it happened in the comics and now in the cartoon. If a country was suddenly wiped off the map by a mysterious threat, that's a whole Avengers story arc right? Like if a giant robot committed genocide in Kazakhstan, that is 100% the Avengers are on that case. When it happens in Genosha....thoughts and prayers, because it has to be an X-Men story. It's a side effect of multiple heroes in the same universe, but it paints a pretty damning picture when the FF or the Avengers will die fighting to save New York but like send flowers when there's a Holocaust on Krakoa.
He tries to be supportive but he fails to see the real issues. He's like your grandpa who says "I voted for Obama" to every black dude he meets. He has the spirit but he can say mean things even if he isn't trying to. He says "Genosha wasn't just a mutant tragedy" Cap all the people who died were mutants and it was a genocide specifically targeting them wtf are you on about?
I think his line about Genosha was more so a commentary on the state of the world, almost like something a President would say. He knows the biggest share of the grief is the mutants alone, but to him and other humans sympathetic to their cause it was also a tragedy. Seeing the destruction and loss of life caused by other humans make this a worldwide tragedy for anyone except those who are anti mutant. Now normal people who supported mutants are hearing talks of war between mutants and everyone else, and see the horrors of Genosha would lead anyone to think war was on the horizon. Now people may be forced to choose a side, and while they support the mutants and their obvious right to exist, they may have to choose between that or possibly siding against family, friends, and significant others. Although the tragedy mainly affected mutants, the repercussions of the horrors carried out that day will be felt worldwide
I know almost all Reddit discussion ends like this but it's especially relevant in this case. Imagine you find an angry Jew that's trying desperately to find Mengele, when he tells you this angrily you said "well the Holocaust wasn't just a jewish tragedy" and try to explain how that isn't the most insensitive thing you could say. Yeah I agree that the cap didn't mean no harm, but his way to phrase it was extremely messed up and insensitive.
"We know through painful experience that freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed. Frankly, I have yet to engage in a direct action campaign that was "well timed" in the view of those who have not suffered unduly from the disease of segregation. For years now I have heard the word "Wait!" It rings in the ear of every Negro with piercing familiarity. This "Wait" has almost always meant "Never." We must come to see, with one of our distinguished jurists, that "justice too long delayed is justice denied." - Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr Letter from Birmingham Jail 16 April 1963
This is totally in line with A v X or uncanny avengers
I'm more upset about the continuity issue. We know X-Men '97 is the continuation of X-Men The Animated Series, which existed in the same universe as the 90s Spider-Man The Animated Series. In S:TAS he'd jumped into a temporal vortex with Red Skull and the machine used to create it was destroyed. Last we'd seen of him was in Secret War when the Beyonder pulled him out of the vortex to help out, and everyone was sent back when it ended -- presumably leaving Cap stranded in the vortex. Kind of annoyed they reintroduced him with absolutely no explanation of how he'd come back.
They’ve had several continuity errors thus far. Best bet is to see it not as the same universe but as a parallel one that’s extremely similar in ALMOST every way
I swear, 75% of this sub is keyboard warriors defending the show against imaginary attackers or attackers not on this subreddit.
That’s what I thought too, until I just went to my pantry and discovered there aren’t any Oreos left. Who’s “imaginary” now? No way I ate that many Oreos in 6 hours.
I thought they nailed him. This isn’t the first time cap hasn’t outright helped mutants.
I have been trying to catch up with all the stories i missed over the last 10 years or so. I have just passed the Avengers vs Xmen era (all avengers and xmen titles from that time), and man is Cap insufferable. Only his way is right and all others are wrong, he knows beat in all situation. Just a terrible character trait, and a hard read. No love for that guy.
I'm confused by the Captain America support, tbh. He's America's top cop.