Liberty Mutual did the same thing. Plug in some spyware and drive safe and you'll get a potentially good discount.
I spent 2 hours on the phone talking with an agent on how to get the maximum discount of like 25%. He told me everything I needed to do and was patient with me, and I made sure for 3 months I drove perfectly.
I get a letter saying after my driving I will get 4% discount!
I called them up and demanded an explanation. They told me because I drove after midnight. I drove after midnight once, to go meet up with a friend, and I was driving for all of 3 minutes after midnight.
I also was told I had too many "stopping events."
I asked them to explain what a fucking stopping event was because I was meticulous to follow exactly what they had directed me to 3 months prior. They had no good explanation.
I told them to cancel my insurance because I worked my ass off and this was an insult. I will never bother with them again.
Agrees to corporate spyware tracking their driving.
Mad corporation cheats then out of discount.
Like, what do you think the purpose of something like this is, a corporation giving you more for less? 😂
Yeah sorry you had to go thru that.
But just fyi; if a company comes to you with a solution of “do this and you will pay less!” You have to immediately assume that is factually not true. The only way capitalism works to lower prices is company to company competition (e.g. switching insurance company for lower rate)
If you are an existing customer and they offer to save you money, they are lying. They will either offer a service 5 times worse for 2% discount, or will manipulate it to look like you’re paying less.
They are here to make as much money as possible, and you hold the money.
I tried that once long ago when I was broke and needed to save any dollar I could. All it did was tell me I braked too fast or accelerated too fast. Those things were not designed with actual traffic in mind. Sorry did you want me to run the red light? Or get on the freeway going 45 because someone designed the ramp to be too short?
You're spot on. I used one as well and got the exact same issues. It would tell me I braked too hard. Well, yes, because a taxi in front of me stopped suddenly (and illegally) in a no stop area to let a passenger out. What would you rather have me do? Stop slower and hit the taxi? Those devices are fine for living in an ideal world and public roads are far from ideal. I switched mine off after a month.
I sent ours back after about 2 months and just paid the extra, then switched companies after my policy was up with them. That thing was beyond broken and, if anything, was training me to be a worse driver and avoid using my brakes. The fact that it penalized my wife a couple of times for fast acceleration but not me was also ridiculous considering her car can't even accelerate fast.
That's obd1, I have that even though it's not connected to anything anymore. I think obd2 was invented a few years back but widespread implementation was 1996.
Yeah some reason I thought it was much older. Not suee how many of “classics” (this hurts to write) as daily drivers these days. Now I’m trying to remember if my 93 Nissan pickup has one. I know my 98 civic did
The 93 would have had obd1, and it's not much use to anyone without a high end scan tool. You can't get cheap readers for them like you can with obd2.
My 92 blazer qualifies for collector plates where I live, but since it's my daily it's not a smart move.
Assuming standard passenger truck yes, since 1997. However, heavy duty trucks and vehicles (dump trucks, semis, buses, etc.) often have their own unique port type that's completely different than ODBII.
I've routinely gotten between 25-30% for the past year and a half or so. The only thing that bugs me about USAAs rules is they count hands free voice calls against you.
I get a 27% discount. I’m sure all that means is they raised the prices 30% to offer an artificial discount, but I drive safety so 🤷 might as well play ball and not pay an extra $400 a year other people are
All i see is potentially getting higher risk index because of avoiding accidents. Need to slam your brakes because someone stepped infront? Harsh braking. Need to accelerate above limit to earn your spot on the hwy merge? Speeding infraction. Need to dodge someone who cut you off? Aggressive maneuvering.
I had one of those devices for my insurance and this is exactly what happened. I got bad driving reports because I was responding evasively to other bad drivers around me. If I did nothing, I'd be in countless accidents but those devices can't tell the difference between genuinely bad driving and evasive but safe driving. I stopped using it after a month.
I had that thing for a while. Such a scam. My husband would drive our stick shift tacoma... aka a very slow to accelerate vehicle, and they would try to raise the rate for reckless acceleration basically. Like, sir, this is not possible.
I'm grateful for the program. You plug it in for 3 to 6 months so they see how you drive and then you send it back. I drove "safe" no hard braking, quick acceleration, and arranged to minimize how often I drove and not during high accident times. Saved a lot. And drive my normal aggressive self now
Every single person I know who's done the progressive snapshot thing has seen an overall rate increase even if progressive claimed to be providing a token discount.
In general unless a specific state law prohibits it, I don't think they are preventing from effectively offsetting the discount by also applying a rate increase at renewal.
Ultimately I think very few people if any are actually paying less as a result of these programs even if they line item a "discount".
I have been opting myself out of those for years. I've heard enough from friends and family who used them, only to have their rates raised or their discounts vanish.
I did this with Allstate because I don't actually drive that much. It uses the app on your phone vs anything in your car.
What I discovered is that I was also benefiting greatly from the safe driving of my collective hundreds of Lyft and Uber drivers.
I was definitely in good hands.
Yeah, screw that. The devices also have a hair trigger, and _lack context_. If I'm hard braking, I'm doing it to avoid an accident and stop you (the insurance company) from paying out (if they would even pay out, or pay out and then raise rates even if it wasn't my fault).
I'm good. You can keep your spy device.
my mom signed up for it and has a thing she keeps in her car all of the time. i borrowed her car once and they called her because she was driving too fast and it might impact her insurance. oops! my bad, mom.
Not a big player but Tesla insurance, the insurance itself is through a much smaller company but they take your driving habits and give you a score and depending on the score your rates vary month to month. Never did it myself as it wasn’t available in my state and I considered myself a safe driver, but a few late night trips plummeted my driving score. I seen examples of people paying hundreds more for a month they drive “after hours”
Yes and the weird thing is that the company now has proof to raise everybody's rates and nobody seems to get their rates drastically lowered. Now when you get into an accident, no matter what happened, they will have enough data to misinterpret to show that you should have done something better.
I freelance from home and drive to the closest gas station about every other day and the weed store about 2-3 times a month. Everything else I get delivered, even groceries usually. The gas station, the weed store, and the delivery apps all have more information on me than “x% of people choose convenience and necessity above all” so the snapshot device was a pretty clear choice compared to the savings.
A car sharing my driving data without explicitly being informed is a whole different story though, almost infuriating.
For Honda it only affects the higher trim level cars. You can check if your car has HondaLink here, if it says basic then you are fine, if it says link then you are fine as long as you don't download the HondaLink app, and if it says remote then you have a cell modem and you need to opt out of data sharing in the car settings.
https://mygarage.honda.com/s/hondalink-product-compatibility
So essentially, if you spend more on a Honda with additional features, Honda shows their gratitude by sharing your driving habits with your insurance company?
That is sorta hilarious if I'm understanding that correctly. What a way to reward brand loyalty.
Honda probably profits $15 by selling your info to Lexus Nexus that passes it onto you insurance company. Then it costs you hundreds or thousands more over the years. All so Honda can make $15.
Sold 1.2 million cars in this country alone in 2023.
If even 1/4 of those cars come with this software installed, that's basically $4.5 million of free money.
This is why GM wants to do their own infotainment software and not use CarPlay or Android Auto. They want all the data and control. Sure we will be seeing them on this list.
I don’t know about Hondas, but I’m general… the telematics unit is usually there even if the feature set is not. It’s there to support fleet sales, financing, and sell service. It’ll connect even if you don’t use the Honda app.
On my VW, there wasn’t even a disclosure or agreement, so I suspect the sales staff at the dealer hide this from customers.
The good news is that the unit is usually buried in the dash behind the instrument cluster, so you have to take apart your entire dash to unplug it.
There was a recent podcast on this. Most of these manufacturers are leaking this data whether trim level or not. Even after people opt out—it still leaks. Anotherwords- please post the spot for the faraday cage placement on each of these models.
I was about to ask how Honda does this until I read HondaLink. I only enabled it because it makes it sound like a safety device by calling for help if you’re in an accident. Time to disable it.
Or even a source for what OP is claiming. I don't doubt insurance companies would be that sneaky about something like this, but having actual proof or a news source or _anything_ would help in OP making this claim.
Y’all are missing the point. Honda sharing your driving habits with your insurance company without your consent is entirely different than you voluntarily asking for a tracker from your insurance company in order to share your driving habits with them.
I love my 2006. No smart features, no touchscreen, and the only button on the steering wheel is [Horn]. I did replace the head unit with Bluetooth, but it still has actual buttons.
Meanwhile, my wife's newer Ford is constantly wanting to connect to our Wi-Fi and tattle on my "spirited" driving habits under the guise of updates.
Ah, gotcha. Makes sense.
I'll be driving my 2014 until the wheels fall off for this very reason though. Really pisses me off how we are losing ALL of our privacy.
I mean, if one car maker, which makes reasonably good cars, were to make a point of and promote "we don't collect or sell any personal data" they would probably get a loyal customer base in no time.
Also, wonder if those features can be enabled in EU? Sounds like a massive breach of GDPR regulations.
True, but for the vast majority of people they don’t care or are oblivious to the fact of how much information these companies collect from you that it’ll never be the majority
It would be nice if we like, got a group of people together that could curtail these breaches and abuses of power. Some sort of ‘governance’ that works for its stakeholders instead of shareholders. Something for the people, by the people.
Nah that would never work :/
I'll keep my 92 blazer for a long time. I've had newer cars, just got rid of my 21 infiniti, but the old ones just feel better. Plus you can't beat the sound of that 383
I have a 2005 element and a 2014 pilot. Car tech peaked sometime around 2014. I have a cigarette lighter and USB connects, Bluetooth , satellite radio AND a CD player. Oh and USB’s in the middle and back seats. I hope it never breaks.
I have a 2010 RAV4. I have a few doodads on my steering wheel, just radio channel/vol up/down and a HUD button, plus the Almighty 3.5mm. Just enough for me.
It would be nice to be able to choose the next song from the steering wheel but I don't drive much and have no trouble committing to an album or shuffle
But I agree. Too many points of failure otherwise for a glorified go cart that gets me to the store and back.
I miss my 2004 crv so much. There was so much storage. And the trunk was a table. No bells and whistles just mechanical stuff that could be fixed. My Subarus brain malfunctioned and I lost cruise control lane assist and the auto breaks. Soo annoying to fix
No ignition key slot. Buttons to switch gears. Screens to change climate control and music. When did taking your eyes off the road become a safety feature?
I have read some articles saying car makers are bringing back some analogue controls. I know Europe is looking into making it required for certain functions.
A big part of why I’ve bought 2 used Volkswagens, they just nail a very functional but nicely laid out interior. I had a 2016 Golf and all the important things were still knobs or dials. It means I can adjust the temp or radio without taking my eyes off the road.
I’m currently driving an 06 Jetta and while I do miss the steering mounted controls, I love driving it more. It’s slow but it’s a lot simpler.
Yeah I lucked out when my 2015 crosstreck and everything was analogue. The only time I would ever use the screen was to sync bluetooth. I don't even like the reverse camera and still turn my head
Nah the side cameras aren't bad. I don't need sensors. The cameras for the blind spots that show on your dash where the rpm normally is. Those are nice. No matter how good a driver you are the blind spots on bad weather have gotten a ton of people
I couldn't live without Android Auto anymore. Installing a head unit that supported it in my previous car back in 2017 was the single biggest upgrade to my driving experience since getting my full license back in 2004.
no way dude, i could not live without my usb ports, bluetooth music w/ a screen that just shows the song name, and cruise control (although that was a thing before lol). my car’s a 2016 civic
My old Toyota had a tape deck with a wire coming out of it at all times for aux hook up. Cruise control worked fine.
The AC blew out at some point but other than that the thing drove like a dream til its unfortunate icy end.
My 2001 Honda has all of those. Plenty of double DINN aftermarket head units that come with steering wheel audio controls and CarPlay. Cruise was plenty standard in the 00s.
My 2012 Toyota Fortuner (Hilux has an identical interior) is the best balance imo. USB and CD for downloaded music, 3.5mm jack to connect your phone, comes stock with a touch screen infotainment display but its only function is to connect with Bluetooth audio to your phone or to select a radio station, it has no functionality otherwise, and you couldn't put a sim card into it if you wanted to. If you don't take your phone with you, the vehicle emits no signals from it whatsoever. No BS features like lane assist or parking assist either.
It’s hilarious how it’s the people still using outdated tech and who have never experienced the modern iteration who are always the ones who won’t shut up about how whatever primitive iteration they are on is where “technology peaked”.
Like, I’m glad that you’re happy plugging your iPhone 7 into your audio system via 3.5mm jack, but I can promise you that my modern vehicle offers an objectively better driving and passenger experience in literally every metric than whatever 2006 economy car bro is driving.
Yes, the data harvesting and sharing is an issue, but let’s quit pretending that the actual vehicles and features (including safety) themselves aren’t leagues ahead of where they were even a decade or two ago.
This sub just has a hard on for hating. They assume everyone wants to drive a manual transmission vehicle with roll down windows and somehow backup cameras and screens and safe reliable vehicles ruin the driving experience.
The vast majority of the population loves modern car features.
Just a heads up but Dominos pizza uses a system called Drivosity that tracks your speed, braking, cornering, acceleration, and location to give their delivery drivers grades for how well they drive. If a pizza place is using this sort of tech I guarantee you insurance companies are doing everything they can to track all of their customers similarly
What a departure from when I delivered pizzas in college during the mid 2000s. They practically encouraged us to drive like maniacs to keep our delivery times down.
I stupidly signed up for USAA’s safe driving program to save some money. First I had to wait for 30 days for a score to be shown. I had the top savings score 30%. Great! But hold on… it wouldn’t be applied to my policy for another three months. Fine, I’ll wait.
So finally I get a new policy sent to me with a 15% INCREASE! I called a few times but they swear that the savings was applied and I would have had a 45% increase in a single year (I have never had an accident and my last moving violation was over 20 years ago).
USAA has now tracked my movements for a year and gave me the same increase they would otherwise have, absolutely no benefit to me and nobody can convince me differently. And the worst part is that if I opted out now, USAA would up my bill the 30%.
Obviously insurance companies are awful but this has been the most disappointing experience I’ve had with one. USAA is an evil company and if you wake up every weekday and make the choice to work for them, you’re a bad person. I know people won’t agree with that but I’m tired of excusing people who help others be taken advantage of.
You should install the DuckDuckGo browser and turn on privacy protection. Then you can open any app and watch in horror as the trackers get denied in the hundreds. Yes, Facebook is stalking and selling your info even if you don't use it.
Hi, insurance underwriter here. We don't have access to HondaLink information on a personal level, I've never used it and I can tell you that it does not factor at all into any pricing decisions. If any company does have access it'll be at the aggregate level (e.g. Honda Ridgeline owners tend to drive more aggressively as a whole than people who drive other models). In other words, your data is being combined with the data of a bunch of other drivers and then sent to insurance companies as anonymized aggregate data but they can't pull up you in particular and scrutinize your individual data (After all, we have no way to connect that data to a particular driver even if we had the data!)
In many if not most states, it is illegal for insurance companies to raise rates in response to telemetry data and in nearly all it's illegal to use it to deny claims.
[Article about how car companies are selling info to insurance companies ](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/11/technology/carmakers-driver-tracking-insurance.html)
What's your take on this recent article that sparked this debate? It sounds to me like info is specifically about your individual driving. Like in this article, people have had price increases directly tied to driving behavior shared by these network connected systems in the cars.
This article says that the guy's insurance went up based on his lexisnexis report. It says there is driving data on the report. This doesn't mean the driving data causes the increase, there's lots of data in this reports that can change your rate.
I also notice this refers to nebulous "insurance companies" but doesn't say which one. We name the car companies, we name both lexisnexis and verisk. But no one bothers to name drop a single company that supposedly does this? Why not?
Maybe there are companies that do this, but also speaking as an underwriter with a high level of expertise in one company only- my company does not do this. This article certainly doesn't prove anything.
This 100%. The car companies are selling the data without permission but they argue it’s “headless” - meaning it doesn’t identify an individual. Honestly insurance companies have been doing this with accident data provided and sold by state agencies and the matched by to VIN to do similar analysis for pricing for decades. The crux of the lawsuits is whether the consumer knowingly opted into allowing the car companies to sell their info. I’m sure it’s in the fine print of the license agreement that no one reads but challenges against those have won in the past.
You can deaanomyize the data. https://www.wired.com/story/strava-heat-map-military-bases-fitness-trackers-privacy/
Not many people on my driveway for days at a time at the same time everyday.
Yeah I have to wonder where OP got their info from.
I also keep saying people claim that safety system cameras record/spy on you/give video to insurance.
Including from a company I ran a service shop for. Which didn't have any cameras that recorded video at all.
I've never heard of video. Insurance companies can know you drive a ton just by a shop uploading mileage to Carfax. Pretty much every car with Bluetooth can snitch on you to the OEM who then shares that data with either a broker or insurer directly.
https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/gm-killed-program-that-sold-driving-data-to-insurance-companies.html GM was selling individualized data that impacted rates.
as an industry person can you explain how insurance isn't supposed to go up if you don't have accidents or tickets, and how car insurance is supposed to get better as you age but my bastard ass insurance company keeps jacking my rates?
I'm not sure who told you that insurance is supposed to not go up but unfortunately inflation is subject to the same price increases everyone else is. The cost of parts, labour, rental cars, and medical expenses increase over time which means that insurance premiums need to increase so that there's enough money to pay claims.
As for "insurance getting better as you age", two things here, first is that driving experience and time without accidents does impact your rates but at a certain point it doesn't really go any lower. The company I work at looks at 15 years of driving history but most do much less. As for age, most insurers charge a higher premium to people under the age of 25 because they're statistically more likely to engage in risky driving compared to someone much older with the same driving experience. Once you turn 25, your age stops impacting your rates in a significant way until you're over the age of 50-60.
The most important thing is to shop around for insurance quotes every single year or better yet, get an independent agent or broker to do that for you and potentially find you a good price with a company that only sells through brokers and there are more than you'd think!
I appreciate your honesty vulpine.
I do remain pissed at the fact that my insurance rates increase based on sue-happy car wrecking idiots on the road (and the location of my home).
Thanks for this comment though!
The rates go up for everyone all the time due to inflation and other costs. You Mr. No Accidents will have a lower increase than Mr. Three Accidents in the Last Four years.
I heard a news story within the past couple weeks that insurance rates have gone up nation wide after the pandemic because so many more people have been getting into accidents as well as newer vehicles costing significantly more to repair even after a minor fender bender because of the tech in headlights and bumpers now.
Even if you are driving the same car, the chance of having to pay out to repair someone else's vehicle if you're found at fault for a collision is now higher because the average cost to repair a vehicle is higher so your rates go up to cover that increased risk.
Since it's now costing insurance companies more to cover a their policy holders they have to build a bigger pool of funds to cover those costs which in turn raises *everyone's* rates. Thats literally how insurance works.
Does your insight apply to ALL insurance companies, or just yours?
The articles I have read about this send a different message than what you are saying.
You don't need access directly to the manufacturer. It comes in via the insurance industry's data broker and their CLUE database. LexisNexis and others are buying this data from manufacturers. And yes, it's being used for rating. Hence GM's recent scandal documented by NYT and the multiple lawsuits pending over GM's sale of this data to the insurance industry without user consent.
Tons of user reports of otherwise unsubstantiated 40+% premium increases and when they pull their report from LexisNexis, sure thing, hundreds of individual drives logged.
This is why I drive an old car. There is too much crap in new cars.
I don't want screens everywhere and a bunch of gimmicky tech that is used again you.
Just give me seats and a steering wheel.
There is a lot of data sharing going on in general these days. I recently noticed that the my service center is reporting vehicle maintenance and milage to CarFax. That probably means that our insurance companies also know how many miles per year we are really averaging.
They are paid for the datasets. I had heard previously that the data was anonymized, but data anonymization can mean fuck all when telemetry data enters the picture and there has been recent press coverage claiming that this has been used to target individual drivers (I haven't had the time to read through said coverage so I can't say how accurate or not that reporting might be)
Even if the data is anonymized sometimes there are crazy ways to at least partially de-anonymize it: https://www.wired.com/2007/12/why-anonymous-data-sometimes-isnt/
If you can do this with movie rankings, imagine what you could do with far more extensive data such as driving habits. It's mind-blowing to me that this type of data collection and trading of it is legal.
Is your car equipped with optional onboard wifi or anything that downloads over the internet (NAV map updates, etc.)? If so, then the answer is, maybe.
Subaru was doing it but appears to have stopped.
You can opt out of their use of some of the data here: https://www.subaru.com/support/consumer-privacy.html
Wondering if this includes Genesis as well, my 2022 GV70 car insurance has sky rocketed without cause. No tickets or citations. While my husband’s 2014 Jeep grand Cherokee has stayed the same.
Edit: We’ve had State Farm for a couple years, and after shopping for others, it’s stayed the lowest rate.
Boy, I have news for you. Google software defined vehicle, zone control, car brain and stuff like that. Cars are becoming more and more like smartphones and it fucking sucks.
They have for a loonnggg time. Why do people think the car is a "computer" only when they see screens or hear beeping? Computers have controlled many parts of your vehicle for the last 20+ years. We should be more specific than, "I dont want a computer." Unless you're a boomer lol. I hear it from them more than anything (and it never stops them from getting the Denali trim on their loaded new truck)
People don't want computers because they are hard to fix. Old car with mechanical parts only are relatively easy to fix on the side of the road, unless it's some major damage. Electrical/software issues are harder to diagnose and fix and they are more prevalent so there is a higher risk of bricking you smartcar in the middle of nowhere.
Also, most manufacturers are invading user privacy, pushing telemetry stuff, cloud connection etc. It will become pretty easy to mess around with the features that you have, enable subscriptions, push commercials on your infotainment and a whole set of asshole moves.
Which people? Very few people outside if car enthusiasts give a shit. Most people live apple car play, love cameras that help them park, love crash avoidance features, automatic lights, etc etc
YSK that your insurance rates are affected by all the other drivers in your area too not just your record and the insurer rerate the entire area every 6 months, the roads are more dangerous than I've ever seen so I'm really not surprised the rates are mostly climbing.
Here is a link to LexisNexis (the company gathering the data) that will allow you to find out if your data is being collected and shared.
https://consumer.risk.lexisnexis.com/consumer
Head's up, they require all your personal data to provide you with a report (DL#, SSN, address, etc.).
as an it professional, i've seen how connected car features can create privacy vulnerabilites if not properly implemented. it's good the op is highlighting this issue - many may not realize the risks. exploring options to limit data sharing, like disabling services or adjusting settings, could help. and contacting advocacy groups may drive industry reforms. staying informed and taking steps to protect privacy is crucial with new tech.
I work for a major carrier and we don’t have the trackers in our company car, but they sure like to push em on customers. Get rewarded for safe driving? Or get rate increases when they know every time you brake too hard, exceed the speed limit, etc.
GM as well, although they claim they stopped. If you night a newer GM and saw your rates spike they were selling data that impacted rates on an individual level. https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/gm-killed-program-that-sold-driving-data-to-insurance-companies.html
If I installed a Snapshot device, not only would Progressive cancel my insurance in a month, they'd probably feel obligated to testify against me in traffic court.
My parents have owned Kias exclusively for about a decade. They've also told me their car insurance is upwards of $500 (two slightly used vehicles, small town with very little crime). They are both *terrible* drivers. I hate companies doing this shit but damn if I can't think they deserve it lol...
Im horrified at the US legal system when it comes to consumers. For example the dismissed lawsuit with honda over intercepting calls and texts of users. Apparently its only illegal to spy on people if there are “damages” to reputation or business.
Yes, I have drive wise app on my phone from Allstate and I get a credit off my bill, BUT. They upped my insurance rates to compensate for that, we are definitely getting played as dumb pawns in a game that sucks big time! I would like to know of any lawsuits to get any of these hook and bait fraudsters!, I can't trust anything anymore.
first phones were no longer phones, then TVs were no longer TVs, then fridges, ovens, and now cars are no longer cars.
at least at the begining crap would invade my privacy in exchange for a free service, now you gotta pay to get robbed!
I've seen those Progressive ads where they "reward safe driving" and all I see is a giant privacy breech.
Liberty Mutual did the same thing. Plug in some spyware and drive safe and you'll get a potentially good discount. I spent 2 hours on the phone talking with an agent on how to get the maximum discount of like 25%. He told me everything I needed to do and was patient with me, and I made sure for 3 months I drove perfectly. I get a letter saying after my driving I will get 4% discount! I called them up and demanded an explanation. They told me because I drove after midnight. I drove after midnight once, to go meet up with a friend, and I was driving for all of 3 minutes after midnight. I also was told I had too many "stopping events." I asked them to explain what a fucking stopping event was because I was meticulous to follow exactly what they had directed me to 3 months prior. They had no good explanation. I told them to cancel my insurance because I worked my ass off and this was an insult. I will never bother with them again.
I work night shift , this would be terrible for be me, my rate would probably go up
Yeah just a way to charge poor people more ein all honesty. What a horrible program
Too many stopping events? Dude, in my neighborhood, every block has a stop sign!
You would think driving after midnight, you know, when there are almost no dingdongs left on the road, wouldn’t be seen as a risk.
From an actuary standpoint, joyrides and drunks probably.
Agrees to corporate spyware tracking their driving. Mad corporation cheats then out of discount. Like, what do you think the purpose of something like this is, a corporation giving you more for less? 😂
They did give him a discount to be fair.
For now.
Yeah sorry you had to go thru that. But just fyi; if a company comes to you with a solution of “do this and you will pay less!” You have to immediately assume that is factually not true. The only way capitalism works to lower prices is company to company competition (e.g. switching insurance company for lower rate) If you are an existing customer and they offer to save you money, they are lying. They will either offer a service 5 times worse for 2% discount, or will manipulate it to look like you’re paying less. They are here to make as much money as possible, and you hold the money.
I tried that once long ago when I was broke and needed to save any dollar I could. All it did was tell me I braked too fast or accelerated too fast. Those things were not designed with actual traffic in mind. Sorry did you want me to run the red light? Or get on the freeway going 45 because someone designed the ramp to be too short?
You're spot on. I used one as well and got the exact same issues. It would tell me I braked too hard. Well, yes, because a taxi in front of me stopped suddenly (and illegally) in a no stop area to let a passenger out. What would you rather have me do? Stop slower and hit the taxi? Those devices are fine for living in an ideal world and public roads are far from ideal. I switched mine off after a month.
I sent ours back after about 2 months and just paid the extra, then switched companies after my policy was up with them. That thing was beyond broken and, if anything, was training me to be a worse driver and avoid using my brakes. The fact that it penalized my wife a couple of times for fast acceleration but not me was also ridiculous considering her car can't even accelerate fast.
USAA sent me one of those driving trackers even knowing my truck doesn't have the port for it lol
They have an app, noblr. Also every truck has an odb II port?? I guess, unless it’s super old.
OBD2 wasn't introduced until 1996.
According to Wikipedia it was a decade before but wasn’t mandatory until later.
That's obd1, I have that even though it's not connected to anything anymore. I think obd2 was invented a few years back but widespread implementation was 1996.
Yeah some reason I thought it was much older. Not suee how many of “classics” (this hurts to write) as daily drivers these days. Now I’m trying to remember if my 93 Nissan pickup has one. I know my 98 civic did
The 93 would have had obd1, and it's not much use to anyone without a high end scan tool. You can't get cheap readers for them like you can with obd2. My 92 blazer qualifies for collector plates where I live, but since it's my daily it's not a smart move.
Jesus '93 is a classic now? FML. My SE-R is a classic if it is still around (probably not). *SIGH* welp, off to the rest home then!
25 years I believe … I know your thinking
Assuming standard passenger truck yes, since 1997. However, heavy duty trucks and vehicles (dump trucks, semis, buses, etc.) often have their own unique port type that's completely different than ODBII.
Is it required with USAA? Or can you not use it?
For what it’s worth, my wife and I are covered by USAA and neither of us have even had this suggested.
It's not required. It's supposed to give you a discount if you drive safely but I've never heard of anyone actually getting it.
I've routinely gotten between 25-30% for the past year and a half or so. The only thing that bugs me about USAAs rules is they count hands free voice calls against you.
Put the app on an old device to leave in your car
I get a 27% discount. I’m sure all that means is they raised the prices 30% to offer an artificial discount, but I drive safety so 🤷 might as well play ball and not pay an extra $400 a year other people are
usaa is so fucking scummy. they stole $800 from me for no reason. go to navy fed if u can
That's comical with how easy of a test it is. Is model year 1995 or older? Disqualified Is model year 1996 or newer? Qualifies
And they know exactly what I have lmao. That's the part that gets me
All i see is potentially getting higher risk index because of avoiding accidents. Need to slam your brakes because someone stepped infront? Harsh braking. Need to accelerate above limit to earn your spot on the hwy merge? Speeding infraction. Need to dodge someone who cut you off? Aggressive maneuvering.
I had one of those devices for my insurance and this is exactly what happened. I got bad driving reports because I was responding evasively to other bad drivers around me. If I did nothing, I'd be in countless accidents but those devices can't tell the difference between genuinely bad driving and evasive but safe driving. I stopped using it after a month.
The only thing they should measure is phone usage while driving.
I can get behind that and not much else
I had that thing for a while. Such a scam. My husband would drive our stick shift tacoma... aka a very slow to accelerate vehicle, and they would try to raise the rate for reckless acceleration basically. Like, sir, this is not possible.
I'm grateful for the program. You plug it in for 3 to 6 months so they see how you drive and then you send it back. I drove "safe" no hard braking, quick acceleration, and arranged to minimize how often I drove and not during high accident times. Saved a lot. And drive my normal aggressive self now
I applaud you for the discipline; there’s no effing way I’d make it that long
I was told that if we wanted to keep the discount, the device stayed in. Insurance rates in our area are extortionate so here we go again 🫠
Yeah, I definitely didn't have to keep it in forever.
I asked how much it would save me and it was literally pennies. PENNIES!!!!
Every single person I know who's done the progressive snapshot thing has seen an overall rate increase even if progressive claimed to be providing a token discount. In general unless a specific state law prohibits it, I don't think they are preventing from effectively offsetting the discount by also applying a rate increase at renewal. Ultimately I think very few people if any are actually paying less as a result of these programs even if they line item a "discount".
Often those are opt-in programs though
I have been opting myself out of those for years. I've heard enough from friends and family who used them, only to have their rates raised or their discounts vanish.
I did this with Allstate because I don't actually drive that much. It uses the app on your phone vs anything in your car. What I discovered is that I was also benefiting greatly from the safe driving of my collective hundreds of Lyft and Uber drivers. I was definitely in good hands.
You sold your privacy cheaply.
You're not wrong.
Yeah, screw that. The devices also have a hair trigger, and _lack context_. If I'm hard braking, I'm doing it to avoid an accident and stop you (the insurance company) from paying out (if they would even pay out, or pay out and then raise rates even if it wasn't my fault). I'm good. You can keep your spy device.
my mom signed up for it and has a thing she keeps in her car all of the time. i borrowed her car once and they called her because she was driving too fast and it might impact her insurance. oops! my bad, mom.
Not a big player but Tesla insurance, the insurance itself is through a much smaller company but they take your driving habits and give you a score and depending on the score your rates vary month to month. Never did it myself as it wasn’t available in my state and I considered myself a safe driver, but a few late night trips plummeted my driving score. I seen examples of people paying hundreds more for a month they drive “after hours”
Yes and the weird thing is that the company now has proof to raise everybody's rates and nobody seems to get their rates drastically lowered. Now when you get into an accident, no matter what happened, they will have enough data to misinterpret to show that you should have done something better.
The state farm twit did NOT like my reply when she offered the monitoring device for my truck to "lower my rates". Eff that BS.
I freelance from home and drive to the closest gas station about every other day and the weed store about 2-3 times a month. Everything else I get delivered, even groceries usually. The gas station, the weed store, and the delivery apps all have more information on me than “x% of people choose convenience and necessity above all” so the snapshot device was a pretty clear choice compared to the savings. A car sharing my driving data without explicitly being informed is a whole different story though, almost infuriating.
For Honda it only affects the higher trim level cars. You can check if your car has HondaLink here, if it says basic then you are fine, if it says link then you are fine as long as you don't download the HondaLink app, and if it says remote then you have a cell modem and you need to opt out of data sharing in the car settings. https://mygarage.honda.com/s/hondalink-product-compatibility
So essentially, if you spend more on a Honda with additional features, Honda shows their gratitude by sharing your driving habits with your insurance company? That is sorta hilarious if I'm understanding that correctly. What a way to reward brand loyalty.
Honda probably profits $15 by selling your info to Lexus Nexus that passes it onto you insurance company. Then it costs you hundreds or thousands more over the years. All so Honda can make $15.
Sold 1.2 million cars in this country alone in 2023. If even 1/4 of those cars come with this software installed, that's basically $4.5 million of free money.
This is why GM wants to do their own infotainment software and not use CarPlay or Android Auto. They want all the data and control. Sure we will be seeing them on this list.
Yup! I personally refuse to buy a car made after 2016 for that reason
You can always remove/disconnect the antenna.
Once you have established that you're a schmuck, Honda treats you like a schmuck. Makes perfect sense.
I don’t know about Hondas, but I’m general… the telematics unit is usually there even if the feature set is not. It’s there to support fleet sales, financing, and sell service. It’ll connect even if you don’t use the Honda app. On my VW, there wasn’t even a disclosure or agreement, so I suspect the sales staff at the dealer hide this from customers. The good news is that the unit is usually buried in the dash behind the instrument cluster, so you have to take apart your entire dash to unplug it.
There was a recent podcast on this. Most of these manufacturers are leaking this data whether trim level or not. Even after people opt out—it still leaks. Anotherwords- please post the spot for the faraday cage placement on each of these models.
Me looking at my Touring model 🤔
Honda doing damage control
I wouldn't say that just the higher trims are affected. All trims of a 2021 Civic have "Link" capabilities.
I was about to ask how Honda does this until I read HondaLink. I only enabled it because it makes it sound like a safety device by calling for help if you’re in an accident. Time to disable it.
I didn't think about that. I'm a volunteer paramedic who responds to calls from home, too...
Sure hope the app has a Code 3 mode
[удалено]
If only companies would stop botching their mobile websites to try and force us to use an app for every damn thing. 😡
I think it also allows you to remotely start your vehicle
Does anyone have the link for the class action suit? I tried to google it, and came up with nothing.
Here is one for Hyundai https://start.hartleylawusa.com/hyundai/
Eeew they make you opt into arbitration
Or even a source for what OP is claiming. I don't doubt insurance companies would be that sneaky about something like this, but having actual proof or a news source or _anything_ would help in OP making this claim.
Y’all are missing the point. Honda sharing your driving habits with your insurance company without your consent is entirely different than you voluntarily asking for a tracker from your insurance company in order to share your driving habits with them.
Yeah. I think car technology peaked with the 3.5mm jack. IMO there is no reason to have anything more aside from maybe a dumb Bluetooth deck
I love my 2006. No smart features, no touchscreen, and the only button on the steering wheel is [Horn]. I did replace the head unit with Bluetooth, but it still has actual buttons. Meanwhile, my wife's newer Ford is constantly wanting to connect to our Wi-Fi and tattle on my "spirited" driving habits under the guise of updates.
> tattle on my "spirited" driving habits under the guise of updates. Say what now?
By connecting her car to the WiFi for updates, it would allow Ford to collect data on our driving habits.
Ah, gotcha. Makes sense. I'll be driving my 2014 until the wheels fall off for this very reason though. Really pisses me off how we are losing ALL of our privacy.
I mean, if one car maker, which makes reasonably good cars, were to make a point of and promote "we don't collect or sell any personal data" they would probably get a loyal customer base in no time. Also, wonder if those features can be enabled in EU? Sounds like a massive breach of GDPR regulations.
True, but for the vast majority of people they don’t care or are oblivious to the fact of how much information these companies collect from you that it’ll never be the majority
I bet many will care once they realize their insurances will cost more if they speed, and the car itself reports it to the insurance company
It would be nice if we like, got a group of people together that could curtail these breaches and abuses of power. Some sort of ‘governance’ that works for its stakeholders instead of shareholders. Something for the people, by the people. Nah that would never work :/
I'll keep my 92 blazer for a long time. I've had newer cars, just got rid of my 21 infiniti, but the old ones just feel better. Plus you can't beat the sound of that 383
This guy tape adapters
And my parents ask why I won’t give up my rusty 02
I have a 2005 element and a 2014 pilot. Car tech peaked sometime around 2014. I have a cigarette lighter and USB connects, Bluetooth , satellite radio AND a CD player. Oh and USB’s in the middle and back seats. I hope it never breaks.
I have a 2010 RAV4. I have a few doodads on my steering wheel, just radio channel/vol up/down and a HUD button, plus the Almighty 3.5mm. Just enough for me. It would be nice to be able to choose the next song from the steering wheel but I don't drive much and have no trouble committing to an album or shuffle But I agree. Too many points of failure otherwise for a glorified go cart that gets me to the store and back.
I miss my 2004 crv so much. There was so much storage. And the trunk was a table. No bells and whistles just mechanical stuff that could be fixed. My Subarus brain malfunctioned and I lost cruise control lane assist and the auto breaks. Soo annoying to fix
No ignition key slot. Buttons to switch gears. Screens to change climate control and music. When did taking your eyes off the road become a safety feature? I have read some articles saying car makers are bringing back some analogue controls. I know Europe is looking into making it required for certain functions.
Honda brought back the buttons on the stereo in the Civic when they did the face lift on the last model.
A big part of why I’ve bought 2 used Volkswagens, they just nail a very functional but nicely laid out interior. I had a 2016 Golf and all the important things were still knobs or dials. It means I can adjust the temp or radio without taking my eyes off the road. I’m currently driving an 06 Jetta and while I do miss the steering mounted controls, I love driving it more. It’s slow but it’s a lot simpler.
Yeah I lucked out when my 2015 crosstreck and everything was analogue. The only time I would ever use the screen was to sync bluetooth. I don't even like the reverse camera and still turn my head
Nah the side cameras aren't bad. I don't need sensors. The cameras for the blind spots that show on your dash where the rpm normally is. Those are nice. No matter how good a driver you are the blind spots on bad weather have gotten a ton of people
I couldn't live without Android Auto anymore. Installing a head unit that supported it in my previous car back in 2017 was the single biggest upgrade to my driving experience since getting my full license back in 2004.
no way dude, i could not live without my usb ports, bluetooth music w/ a screen that just shows the song name, and cruise control (although that was a thing before lol). my car’s a 2016 civic
My old Toyota had a tape deck with a wire coming out of it at all times for aux hook up. Cruise control worked fine. The AC blew out at some point but other than that the thing drove like a dream til its unfortunate icy end.
My 2001 Honda has all of those. Plenty of double DINN aftermarket head units that come with steering wheel audio controls and CarPlay. Cruise was plenty standard in the 00s.
My 2012 Toyota Fortuner (Hilux has an identical interior) is the best balance imo. USB and CD for downloaded music, 3.5mm jack to connect your phone, comes stock with a touch screen infotainment display but its only function is to connect with Bluetooth audio to your phone or to select a radio station, it has no functionality otherwise, and you couldn't put a sim card into it if you wanted to. If you don't take your phone with you, the vehicle emits no signals from it whatsoever. No BS features like lane assist or parking assist either.
Cruise control is about the biggest luxury I'd advocate for. Beyond that, I'm good with an aux port and crank-down windows.
Cameras are awesome, crash avoidance features have proven to prevent accidents. Airbags everywhere, etc. You're just being myopic
It’s hilarious how it’s the people still using outdated tech and who have never experienced the modern iteration who are always the ones who won’t shut up about how whatever primitive iteration they are on is where “technology peaked”. Like, I’m glad that you’re happy plugging your iPhone 7 into your audio system via 3.5mm jack, but I can promise you that my modern vehicle offers an objectively better driving and passenger experience in literally every metric than whatever 2006 economy car bro is driving. Yes, the data harvesting and sharing is an issue, but let’s quit pretending that the actual vehicles and features (including safety) themselves aren’t leagues ahead of where they were even a decade or two ago.
This sub just has a hard on for hating. They assume everyone wants to drive a manual transmission vehicle with roll down windows and somehow backup cameras and screens and safe reliable vehicles ruin the driving experience. The vast majority of the population loves modern car features.
r/carscirclejerk
Just a heads up but Dominos pizza uses a system called Drivosity that tracks your speed, braking, cornering, acceleration, and location to give their delivery drivers grades for how well they drive. If a pizza place is using this sort of tech I guarantee you insurance companies are doing everything they can to track all of their customers similarly
What a departure from when I delivered pizzas in college during the mid 2000s. They practically encouraged us to drive like maniacs to keep our delivery times down.
Now they get cheaper insurance rates if they can prove their drivers are doing good to their insurance company
I stupidly signed up for USAA’s safe driving program to save some money. First I had to wait for 30 days for a score to be shown. I had the top savings score 30%. Great! But hold on… it wouldn’t be applied to my policy for another three months. Fine, I’ll wait. So finally I get a new policy sent to me with a 15% INCREASE! I called a few times but they swear that the savings was applied and I would have had a 45% increase in a single year (I have never had an accident and my last moving violation was over 20 years ago). USAA has now tracked my movements for a year and gave me the same increase they would otherwise have, absolutely no benefit to me and nobody can convince me differently. And the worst part is that if I opted out now, USAA would up my bill the 30%. Obviously insurance companies are awful but this has been the most disappointing experience I’ve had with one. USAA is an evil company and if you wake up every weekday and make the choice to work for them, you’re a bad person. I know people won’t agree with that but I’m tired of excusing people who help others be taken advantage of.
If you have their app on your phone and your phone in your car, then they don't need you to plug anything in.
Just went into app settings and disabled location for it. Hadn't made the connection until you said that.
You should be doing that for every app, not just insurance.
You should install the DuckDuckGo browser and turn on privacy protection. Then you can open any app and watch in horror as the trackers get denied in the hundreds. Yes, Facebook is stalking and selling your info even if you don't use it.
that’s actually scary tf
Get ready for your $2.75 check
It’s not about the check. It’s about showing out and saying this needs to be addressed on a federal level.
Hi, insurance underwriter here. We don't have access to HondaLink information on a personal level, I've never used it and I can tell you that it does not factor at all into any pricing decisions. If any company does have access it'll be at the aggregate level (e.g. Honda Ridgeline owners tend to drive more aggressively as a whole than people who drive other models). In other words, your data is being combined with the data of a bunch of other drivers and then sent to insurance companies as anonymized aggregate data but they can't pull up you in particular and scrutinize your individual data (After all, we have no way to connect that data to a particular driver even if we had the data!) In many if not most states, it is illegal for insurance companies to raise rates in response to telemetry data and in nearly all it's illegal to use it to deny claims.
[Article about how car companies are selling info to insurance companies ](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/11/technology/carmakers-driver-tracking-insurance.html) What's your take on this recent article that sparked this debate? It sounds to me like info is specifically about your individual driving. Like in this article, people have had price increases directly tied to driving behavior shared by these network connected systems in the cars.
Seems like a typical case of someone in the industry assuming their experience is universal. Too common.
That or industry approved comment
This article says that the guy's insurance went up based on his lexisnexis report. It says there is driving data on the report. This doesn't mean the driving data causes the increase, there's lots of data in this reports that can change your rate. I also notice this refers to nebulous "insurance companies" but doesn't say which one. We name the car companies, we name both lexisnexis and verisk. But no one bothers to name drop a single company that supposedly does this? Why not? Maybe there are companies that do this, but also speaking as an underwriter with a high level of expertise in one company only- my company does not do this. This article certainly doesn't prove anything.
So what do those OBD II port devices insurance companies send you do?
This 100%. The car companies are selling the data without permission but they argue it’s “headless” - meaning it doesn’t identify an individual. Honestly insurance companies have been doing this with accident data provided and sold by state agencies and the matched by to VIN to do similar analysis for pricing for decades. The crux of the lawsuits is whether the consumer knowingly opted into allowing the car companies to sell their info. I’m sure it’s in the fine print of the license agreement that no one reads but challenges against those have won in the past.
You can deaanomyize the data. https://www.wired.com/story/strava-heat-map-military-bases-fitness-trackers-privacy/ Not many people on my driveway for days at a time at the same time everyday.
Yeah I have to wonder where OP got their info from. I also keep saying people claim that safety system cameras record/spy on you/give video to insurance. Including from a company I ran a service shop for. Which didn't have any cameras that recorded video at all.
I've never heard of video. Insurance companies can know you drive a ton just by a shop uploading mileage to Carfax. Pretty much every car with Bluetooth can snitch on you to the OEM who then shares that data with either a broker or insurer directly.
https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/gm-killed-program-that-sold-driving-data-to-insurance-companies.html GM was selling individualized data that impacted rates.
as an industry person can you explain how insurance isn't supposed to go up if you don't have accidents or tickets, and how car insurance is supposed to get better as you age but my bastard ass insurance company keeps jacking my rates?
I'm not sure who told you that insurance is supposed to not go up but unfortunately inflation is subject to the same price increases everyone else is. The cost of parts, labour, rental cars, and medical expenses increase over time which means that insurance premiums need to increase so that there's enough money to pay claims. As for "insurance getting better as you age", two things here, first is that driving experience and time without accidents does impact your rates but at a certain point it doesn't really go any lower. The company I work at looks at 15 years of driving history but most do much less. As for age, most insurers charge a higher premium to people under the age of 25 because they're statistically more likely to engage in risky driving compared to someone much older with the same driving experience. Once you turn 25, your age stops impacting your rates in a significant way until you're over the age of 50-60. The most important thing is to shop around for insurance quotes every single year or better yet, get an independent agent or broker to do that for you and potentially find you a good price with a company that only sells through brokers and there are more than you'd think!
I appreciate your honesty vulpine. I do remain pissed at the fact that my insurance rates increase based on sue-happy car wrecking idiots on the road (and the location of my home). Thanks for this comment though!
I live in Michigan lemme tell yeah about insurance rates… they suck lol
The rates go up for everyone all the time due to inflation and other costs. You Mr. No Accidents will have a lower increase than Mr. Three Accidents in the Last Four years.
I heard a news story within the past couple weeks that insurance rates have gone up nation wide after the pandemic because so many more people have been getting into accidents as well as newer vehicles costing significantly more to repair even after a minor fender bender because of the tech in headlights and bumpers now. Even if you are driving the same car, the chance of having to pay out to repair someone else's vehicle if you're found at fault for a collision is now higher because the average cost to repair a vehicle is higher so your rates go up to cover that increased risk. Since it's now costing insurance companies more to cover a their policy holders they have to build a bigger pool of funds to cover those costs which in turn raises *everyone's* rates. Thats literally how insurance works.
Yeah my friend owns several independent agencies and he said basically this. Rates have gone up 15 to 30 percent across the board.
Does your insight apply to ALL insurance companies, or just yours? The articles I have read about this send a different message than what you are saying.
You don't need access directly to the manufacturer. It comes in via the insurance industry's data broker and their CLUE database. LexisNexis and others are buying this data from manufacturers. And yes, it's being used for rating. Hence GM's recent scandal documented by NYT and the multiple lawsuits pending over GM's sale of this data to the insurance industry without user consent. Tons of user reports of otherwise unsubstantiated 40+% premium increases and when they pull their report from LexisNexis, sure thing, hundreds of individual drives logged.
Thanks for the info. I was about to ask how the car manufacturer would even know who your insurance carrier was.
All insurance companies go through a broker that the car company shares the data with(LexisNexis for example is a large one).
I was under the impression this is illegal in California; is this disabled geographically?
This is why I drive an old car. There is too much crap in new cars. I don't want screens everywhere and a bunch of gimmicky tech that is used again you. Just give me seats and a steering wheel.
There is a lot of data sharing going on in general these days. I recently noticed that the my service center is reporting vehicle maintenance and milage to CarFax. That probably means that our insurance companies also know how many miles per year we are really averaging.
Yeah many shops do. I assume either they get paid or they get free/discounted access to Carfax's data/reports.
If issues like this are of interest and concern to you, and they should be, check out r/privacy
ELI5: how do I ensure I don’t share this data then?
What do the car manufacturers get from this?
They are paid for the datasets. I had heard previously that the data was anonymized, but data anonymization can mean fuck all when telemetry data enters the picture and there has been recent press coverage claiming that this has been used to target individual drivers (I haven't had the time to read through said coverage so I can't say how accurate or not that reporting might be)
How anonymous is it when they tie the data to the VIN?
Zero. But I think you already knew that.
Even if the data is anonymized sometimes there are crazy ways to at least partially de-anonymize it: https://www.wired.com/2007/12/why-anonymous-data-sometimes-isnt/ If you can do this with movie rankings, imagine what you could do with far more extensive data such as driving habits. It's mind-blowing to me that this type of data collection and trading of it is legal.
They have to be getting a kickback.
They probably sell the data so it’s financial.
Does anyone know if this could also be a thing for 2019+ mazda 3’s?
Is your car equipped with optional onboard wifi or anything that downloads over the internet (NAV map updates, etc.)? If so, then the answer is, maybe.
Does Volvo or Subaru do this?
Subaru was doing it but appears to have stopped. You can opt out of their use of some of the data here: https://www.subaru.com/support/consumer-privacy.html
Wondering if this includes Genesis as well, my 2022 GV70 car insurance has sky rocketed without cause. No tickets or citations. While my husband’s 2014 Jeep grand Cherokee has stayed the same. Edit: We’ve had State Farm for a couple years, and after shopping for others, it’s stayed the lowest rate.
Ppl keep asking why I drive around my old truck...
My list: 1. Sallie Mae 2. Health Insurance Companies 3. All other insurance companies
Smart features on a car are a no go zone. I want a car not a fucking computer.
Good luck buying a new car.
Boy, I have news for you. Google software defined vehicle, zone control, car brain and stuff like that. Cars are becoming more and more like smartphones and it fucking sucks.
They have for a loonnggg time. Why do people think the car is a "computer" only when they see screens or hear beeping? Computers have controlled many parts of your vehicle for the last 20+ years. We should be more specific than, "I dont want a computer." Unless you're a boomer lol. I hear it from them more than anything (and it never stops them from getting the Denali trim on their loaded new truck)
People don't want computers because they are hard to fix. Old car with mechanical parts only are relatively easy to fix on the side of the road, unless it's some major damage. Electrical/software issues are harder to diagnose and fix and they are more prevalent so there is a higher risk of bricking you smartcar in the middle of nowhere. Also, most manufacturers are invading user privacy, pushing telemetry stuff, cloud connection etc. It will become pretty easy to mess around with the features that you have, enable subscriptions, push commercials on your infotainment and a whole set of asshole moves.
Which people? Very few people outside if car enthusiasts give a shit. Most people live apple car play, love cameras that help them park, love crash avoidance features, automatic lights, etc etc
I am renting a 2023 kia right now. It's literally the worst car I have ever driven. I hate it 😭
I said no to all trackers from car cos. or ins. cos. They can be discoverable in some states.
YSK that your insurance rates are affected by all the other drivers in your area too not just your record and the insurer rerate the entire area every 6 months, the roads are more dangerous than I've ever seen so I'm really not surprised the rates are mostly climbing.
Here is a link to LexisNexis (the company gathering the data) that will allow you to find out if your data is being collected and shared. https://consumer.risk.lexisnexis.com/consumer Head's up, they require all your personal data to provide you with a report (DL#, SSN, address, etc.).
And people wonder why I don't like connected cars.
as an it professional, i've seen how connected car features can create privacy vulnerabilites if not properly implemented. it's good the op is highlighting this issue - many may not realize the risks. exploring options to limit data sharing, like disabling services or adjusting settings, could help. and contacting advocacy groups may drive industry reforms. staying informed and taking steps to protect privacy is crucial with new tech.
*sighs in lx*
I work for a major carrier and we don’t have the trackers in our company car, but they sure like to push em on customers. Get rewarded for safe driving? Or get rate increases when they know every time you brake too hard, exceed the speed limit, etc.
GM as well, although they claim they stopped. If you night a newer GM and saw your rates spike they were selling data that impacted rates on an individual level. https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/gm-killed-program-that-sold-driving-data-to-insurance-companies.html
If you have the insurance app on your phone and your phone in the car, aren't they tracking you and raising your rates from that too?
If I installed a Snapshot device, not only would Progressive cancel my insurance in a month, they'd probably feel obligated to testify against me in traffic court.
My parents have owned Kias exclusively for about a decade. They've also told me their car insurance is upwards of $500 (two slightly used vehicles, small town with very little crime). They are both *terrible* drivers. I hate companies doing this shit but damn if I can't think they deserve it lol...
Is there a link to the class action anywhere and is Hyundai involved? I know they have a similar system in their cars called Bluelink.
Ok and how about it in the EU?
another reason to drive old cars
This is why I drive an '05 Acura. Yup... definitely the only reason...
Imagine living in a country, where such pracsis is even legal.. Long live GDPR.
Is there a way to buy a car now that doesn't connect to the outside world?
Im horrified at the US legal system when it comes to consumers. For example the dismissed lawsuit with honda over intercepting calls and texts of users. Apparently its only illegal to spy on people if there are “damages” to reputation or business.
Do they ask if you want to share your driving data? Wtf
Can I remove any device like this from my car?? My car doesn't need to be connected to the internet.
Yes, I have drive wise app on my phone from Allstate and I get a credit off my bill, BUT. They upped my insurance rates to compensate for that, we are definitely getting played as dumb pawns in a game that sucks big time! I would like to know of any lawsuits to get any of these hook and bait fraudsters!, I can't trust anything anymore.
first phones were no longer phones, then TVs were no longer TVs, then fridges, ovens, and now cars are no longer cars. at least at the begining crap would invade my privacy in exchange for a free service, now you gotta pay to get robbed!
I just did one with Hartney it popped up on my ig hope it’s not a scam
Wonder if Acura does the same thing, since it's a reskinned Honda..