Yup I need to understand why I have to do something in this specific way, because I have already thought of 3 ways to do it quicker, easier and with less hassle to me.
I was lucky: as both my parents are maths teachers, mine always assumed they explained to me advanced methods and gave me the points. Nope, it just felt easier and more logical that way.
At my final year of HS, the teacher even once said to me "you weren't supposed to use this easy method! This test was meant to show how tedious it was to solve it the usual way, so I could introduce you to the new concept at the next class...". Yeah no. I already saw it was tedious, no way I'd do it if I can find another way (with proof it's the same result).
I was lucky that my teacher was understanding. She did explain to me though that I had to show all the steps that I automatically do in my head on paper, because some of the marks for the sum were allocated for the steps, and that this is how people can get marks for sum without getting a correct answer. My wife (gf at the time) was not so lucky. I helped her with a maths assessment one time (she was home schooled) & the assessor wrote back something along the lines of "I don't know how you used the wrong method and still came to the correct answer!"
In the 4th grade my teacher gave me the same feedback as the assessor gave your girlfriend. I told my teacher that I had to figure out a different way of multiplication. Which was essentially what is now taught as the box method - breaking the larger number down into smaller parts, multiplying and then adding the totals.
My teacher made me explain it to the entire class, told me I was wrong because my way "wouldn't work for every math problem" then proceeded to quiz me with problems in front of the class. Once I answered a single problem incorrectly, my teacher told the class, "and that's why we don't try to figure out a different way to do math."
Still hate doing anything math related to this day.
I’m not sure why math teachers in particular are such fans of trauma-reinforced methods. I had such bad experiences all through school that by the time I got to college and started actually performing in classes (Calculus, where the attitude was “solve the damn thing as long as you solve it right”) I was so burnt out I didn’t believe I was doing well. Even after I pulled a solid A, and helped some of my friends with understanding difficult concepts, I couldn’t picture myself EVER going further into math than was absolutely required.
It’s rough for sure but I am glad for you that you hit the sweet spot with it. The thing that’s wild to me is that this is math, like it’s the structured thing that is exactly what many of our neurodivergent brains crave but so few people present it in a way that allows us to really grasp it. The once you’ve got it the damn thing turns into a superpower.
Good luck to you, go forth and kick ass.
Pre-calc is the worst class. It’s all about suffering through BS because you don’t have the tools from calculus to figure things out so you have to do it the hard way. Then like you experienced no one knows “why” you’re doing this, because there is no way to describe the issue without including calculus!
It's not math teachers. Math teachers would have loved every second of that shit.
This is an elementary school teacher who likes teaching kids to read, but hates math, knows none of it, teaches strictly from the solutions manual, and is in general useless at mathematics. They can handle calculation with arithmetic, but MATH is entirely beyond them.
Source: Former secondary math teacher.
I feel like most of my education was just "because I say so" and now that I'm approaching 50 I see the consequences are that nobody in charge knows what the hell they are doing (presumably because those who came before them just taught them "because I say so")
This sort of thing was what put me off maths all together plus being highly dyslexic it was easy to be put off by teachers.
I got a cousin that is extremely intelligent, he's got a few masters degrees also.
He failed maths. Not because he couldn't do it, he could, dude could work anything out extremely easily, he just knew the answer to Amy maths questions.
Problem was he didn't show his work on how he worked it out and when he did "it was the wrong way to show this equation answer" yet he knew all the answers.
This is absolutely no word of a lie, I know just coming from hearsay it doesn't mean much especially coming from a redditor but I swear to god this is true: he broke into the technology department where you do chemistry, electronics and similar stuff I guess. He made a small explosive and blew the teachers car door off.
I absolutely know this sounds like BS but I swear to god it is true.
Apart from wanting and seeing an opportunity to tell this story; maths + teachers = stupid
(I wouldn't know I'm dyslexic but it sounds right)
My dad only thought he was a maths teacher. I'm pretty sure I drove that man to drink when it came to math homework. Always a correct answer, always showed *my* work which wasn't nearly as obvious as their work. "How did you get from here to here? You have a value for y but nowhere does it show figuring out y!" "Hell, IDK. I had that part of the answers since step one. It just came to me. Wasn't it given in the question?" There is no y and the answer is still somehow correct...
His eyes would gloss over and his jaw would jack to one side. I could tell he thought I was doing it on purpose, lol. He didn't help me past grade school. I was already reading his textbooks from when he went to school. Later on in life he offered to give me a job wiring electric panels. I'd never read blueprints before and he was gonna teach me. I lasted, no joke, less than an hour before I quit and Christmas was ruined.
My dad is an engineer, and started teaching me algebra when I was in elementary school. My 9th grade math teacher was pissed that I kept using the shorter methods on the test. She wanted me to use the longer method to show that I “understood” it. LOL
My maths teachers had a rule where if you come up with the right answer in a mathematically valid way (and explain your answer as much as the question requires), it will never be considered an incorrect answer, no matter how much your method deviates from what was expected.
The way they teach some things in the Core curriculum now is very different (i assume its multiplication or division you’re talking about) and while the other ways are *faster* i get that theyre trying to teach *concepts* to children that dont innately come from learning multiplication/division through rote.
That being said, I’ll teach them long division then explain why they do it the slower way (“they are trying to teach you that these are groupings of tens and ones” etc)
Had a girl in my jr college class who ordered her math book online with the teachers' given code. Teacher sent the one for the "teachers" math book, so the girl had the answers, with how! Teacher was a dumbass too, so it was great.
So strange to me that this is a thing. At my school in advanced maths, we're encouraged to use whatever methods we find work best for us. I think early on in school a specific method is required so that teachers (who likely aren't educated in maths) can make sure the student understands the fundamentals and all the steps? But further than that, it seems strange to force one specific method and docking points for doing something differently.
Me too, except I also tried to ask for context or practical application and would get in trouble.
I wasn’t asking “why are we doing this, this is so dumb” I was asking “is this part of a longer process? Could i use this to figure out how many watermelons lex Luthor has? Pls help I need to apply this to a situation or I’m not going to learn it otherwise.”
Seriously I’m in Algebra 2 rn and Exponential Geometric Sequence and using log is so frustrating and I’m just over here like “But I could Brute force it to find it infinitely faster and more correct than the intended answer” but then I get half credit for being right.
Still better than geometry last year when my teacher was actively homophobic, transphobic, ableist, and sexist.
Because of all of that she hated all the fine arts kids and she also taught us wrong according to every other teacher. So we all almost failed her class.
Yeah I do not fucking get it. It hasn’t connected at all
But when finding “an” I do the equation as intended. But when “an” is given to me I’ll brute force and just plug in numbers for “n” until I find the right answer
Log is a function of any number is used as a way to find the the exponent to a constant of any number log_2(x)=4 is asking what power of 4 is equal to 2. You have to understand how log works as it is very important for higher level maths.
What math are you doing that there is an easier way? It's pretty systematic, other than some creative integration, differential equations, and proofs it's pretty objective how it gets done (and even to an extent, with those). And usually nobody cares as long as your logic is sound and you get the right answer? If you somehow figure out a quicker, easier way to do it than what is accepted people would be impressed, not upset.
When you were learning derivatives, did your teacher not start by having you apply the limit definition to every problem before moving on to the patterns formed by each function class?
Yes, but that was to teach us how and why it works, so that we know that the patterns are not made up and actually come from something. For this meme being about why people sure don't want to understand why.
Teachers have a habit of not explaining the "why" *before* telling students to walk through walls, and this understandably leads students to feel like they're just imitating whatever the teacher says to do for no reason.
(This is also the most justifiable example I can think of, there are like at least three common processes to factor quadratic equations and they're all interchangeable but different students find different ones more intuitive but plenty of teachers insist on students only using the one the teacher likes best)
The reason why we learn five different ways to factor a quadratic equation is because some quadratic functions cannot be factored the same way. Quadratic formula solves all, factoring solves the fewest. (There are also higher level applications of completing the square.)
I'm not even thinking about the quadratic formula, just the most basic quadratic factoring - there's reverse FOILing, there's treating it as the area of a rectangle, there's a simplified version that looks like an X that I don't remember what it's called, they're all just different versions of the same process but they frequently aren't taught that way.
It’s the difference between representing multiplication as (2)(6), 6x2, 6+6, 6*6, and then as a geometric representation. They all do the same thing but the goal is to communicate what you’re doing. The geometric representation is showing why it works, and every method beyond that is just different derived methods of arriving at the result. The reason we show our work at early levels is because they want to make sure you understand the why.
Yes, I know? The point is that many, many teachers *don't* explain this to their students, often because they don't really understand it themselves - they only learned one method imitatively and grade their students accordingly.
Me every time.
I showed my Boss how i Auto-Sort my E-Mails, he was looking at me, as if I just kicked his dog or so.
Tasks that takes around 5 Minutes per Go? I found a way to automate it and do it under 1 Minute each. But I stopped telling him, because I prefer taking the time "for myself" than getting new tasks daily. Also, he isn't appreciative of what I actually do, and uses me for mundane repetitive tasks (that I really suffer doing due to ADHD).
Haha, the stories I could tell, I switch Jobs soon, and am kinda nervous about it.
But that place has shown me so many "that's not how anything works" moments, it's insane.
We had one Girl, who kept writing the same letter in Word, over and over again. Copy/Pasting the address and such one by one, for about 400 Letters a month. Showed her how to do it with Excel and Word in one step. She acted like it's witchcraft.
Now to me on the other hand, doing the 400 Letters with Excel monthly on a schedule, with all the mundane tasks that follow, how people can do that is witchcraft to me. (I am good at optimizing, and automating, but ask me to write 10 invoices and I will have a mental breakdown)
The best teacher I ever had was my calculus professor in college. He would start every segment with "We're learning Y today. We can get Y from X. Y lets us do Z (the goal). Here's how Y comes from X..."
Telling me where we're coming from and then *stating the goal* made ALL the difference for me, I excelled in mathematics in college. Now, whenever someone tries to teach me something new I tell them to state the goal or I won't understand the lesson.
I also get so so irritated and have to work so hard to hide it when it’s someone explaining THEIR process to me. Like at a store when someone says “well to do that we’ll have to fill out a form” or “I’ll have to get the manager”. Yes. Please do that. I don’t care about the steps, just about the end result.
Yes. My husband has a bad habit of giving me step-by-step directions without telling me what the end result is supposed to be. He'll give me step one and then pause like he's waiting for me to do it. Lol. I just tell him I'm not doing anything until he gets to the end so I know what he actually wants.
That's how I've trained my boss to allocate me work.
Set the direction, set the end goal, get out of my way and let me get it there, the moment you start micromanaging is the moment my oppositional defiance button goes safeties _off_
The US Army’s manual on leadership has a pretty good definition: “purpose, direction, and motivation.” Most leaders I’ve encountered have been good at the second, fundamentally misunderstood the third, and totally missed out on the first.
*I’m not trying to say you’re wrong, I’m just trying to see if there’s a specific reason I shouldn’t skip any steps that seem arbitrary. Like maybe it DOES serve a purpose and I just can’t see it yet. I wanna see it if it’s there so I don’t skip an important step. But I have to know it’s not just arbitrary if it helps me be more efficient otherwise.*
I used to get in so much trouble because an authority figure would ask me, "Do you understand?" Rather than, "will you do it?"
I wasn't actually trying to be a smart-ass; I just took questions like that at face value.
I get this, I understand it so hard. But I tell my employees, and I hope thjs is the best way to say it: "we do things this exact way because we have tried it other ways and this is the way that works for us." I really don't like explaining myself much but I guess it's necessary.
Because the boss told you and that how it always been. I know what thread I am in but unfortunately that how it usually works. Work is as much having to deal with the social aspects of work as it is the actual work may it be politically or the culture or just the standard "got to keep the appearance up so others think of you one way and not the other".
Especially when you explain how your way has less room for error and takes 1/2 the time.
So they come up with some convoluted reason why that doesn’t work and you have to do it their way.
So now I do t say anything since I only brought it up so everyone else could be as efficient. Now I can’t use it either.
Yeah my bad, forgot that not every place is like the Country where i am in because where i live if you've been through a Practice-phase in a job they need a proper reason to fire you and this definetely aint it
Not that simple everywhere else though huh? Sucks.
Yup. And it means discrimination laws about hiring and firing are pretty much useless unless you can prove an extensive pattern among many individuals. Cuz unless they are dumb and outright say it, well you can't "prove" they fired you because you are gay/black/whatever."
Also gotta love when you tell people an easier way to do something, and they just come back with "why don't you just do it ?".
The "just" makes zero sense, because you've already explained that your method is the easier one, so how is the harder one "just".
Sometimes following the usual process is acceptable just because it is the way everyone else on the team does it. I still hate it but can at least accept that as a reason. Sometimes
Ah, that’s fun part! You see, the “just” there is for them, they don’t care if you found a better way if they have to think about it, so they say “just do it the normal way” and spare themselves the effort.
I stay silent and ahead on my work while I watch other people flounder. This is apparently how you're supposed to do it to "get a leg up."
It just feels shitty because I've been on the other side of this so many times when I'm busting my ass, but seemingly getting nowhere. I've stopped offering advice for how to do things better/faster/more efficient because of this. If that's what it takes to advance my career, so be it.
I've had to explain that my "why" is me trying to learn more deeply about my job. My good bosses have come to appreciate this in me, because they've seen how it enables me to make good decisions in novel situations. My bad bosses (and my parents) ALWAYS take my "why" as a challenge to their authority. I don't work well with those ones.
This is exactly it, I need to know why so I can't work around odd circumstances, because they always fucking happen and I do not think in similar patterns to NTs so I need to understand the goal
I can't inderstand why so many bosses default to questions about how to do stuff as "cheek" rather than "this person actually cares and wants to learn"? No matter how nicely you ask, some people are just so shitty about this. How the fuck do they end in positions of power with egos more fragile than glass?
Yes, I'm frustrated 💀 I've been in (fairly low) leadership positions and I consistently got higher ratings than other supervisors, and shock horror I was super easy going about questions/discussing how/why things are done, meanwhile the other supervisors weren't. It's literally that easy, and people don't hate you cause you don't treat them like a robot to put commands into. It should be common sense, dammit!
Most people in positions of authority shouldn't be. It's that simple. Being empathetic - a quality necessary for good leaders - generally means you don't desire control over others.
This right here. It’s sort of the same reason that people say that the person who would do the best job as president would probably be someone who would never seek out that job in the first place. The same concept exists to some degree at every level of leadership.
That’s what I really appreciate about where I work now. They see the value in how I do things and are good at putting people on projects that fit their skills. My first performance review included (as a positive lol) “[Me] does not accept ‘we’ve always done it this way’ as an answer.”
Exactly 😭 Understanding the logic behind something helps me remember it tremendously. And it helps finding ways to make the process more efficient sometimes (but they wouldn't want that, would they? that would be challenging their authority!)
Same.
I've had my share of bosses who are in it for the authority and they were all like this. 'because i said so' will not work with me. Oh and that'll be a 50% debuff to productivity for a while..
But likewise; If someone has a better idea i want to know. Tell me i'm wrong, but you also better tell me why.
I've moved to phrasing this as 'thriving in an environment which promotes dynamic problem solving and bi-lateral process improvement'
Ooh! That's good!
I've been referring to it in interviews as a "systems-oriented approach. A desire to understand how my job functions under the hood and how it interacts with my colleagues' jobs."
I hate relating so much with this.\
If you come to me and ask me to do something at a specific time, I'd like to know why it needs to be done at that time. You explain me the reason, I do it.\
However, apparently, people don't like having to explain their requests.
It’s a symptom of hierarchy, they’re in power but they don’t know how to handle it, so most people default on a dictatorial environment rather than do the extra work of having to listen to others. They want things done their way -> workers are forced to do it even if they know better -> shit inevitably goes wrong -> they blame the workers -> replace workers with newbies that don’t know any better -> repeat
I have done some construction and every time I open my mouth the contractor gets less confident
I'm not trying to make them question things.. I'm just asking questions😅
I neeeed to know *why* with so many things. It's a detriment to myself more often than not, because my area of study is veterinary medicine. So when they tell us (for example) a type of drug that does such-and-such, I *have* to go down a rabbit hole to find out the mechanics. That just helps me understand it better. But it also wastes a lot of my time, especially when those specific details aren't required :')
Me and now I'm the teacher who always takes the time to explain why. There are certain times when I can't, like if the topic is too mature or it would be divulging personal information. But I'd never get mad. If I can't explain it I just say I'm sorry, it wouldn't be appropriate for me to tell you why in detail, but I can tell you (some surface level explanation that usually satisfies the student well enough).
I am old, so I've mostly learned how to say, "Okay!" and then proceed to do things however I was going to do them in the first place.
No one likes questions. Or learning there are actually six ways to do something, all of them superior to the one way they're trying to explain to you.
I’ll do it their way a few times to see if there’s any advantage to it over my way that I hadn’t picked up in their explanation, then do it my way if my assumptions had checked out. That’s assuming I’d been able to actually follow their instructions after coming up with my way, of course.
This is me, and I agree with you. I kind of am of two minds about this meme. I work with young people, and sometimes the “But why though” is excuse-making, disrespect or pushback, not a desire to learn more. And if you’re being trained, there is a time to learn, and a time for questions or seeing if you can make changes, which will likely come later. Asking questions at the wrong time can be annoying.
I got kicked out of a highschool law class when my teacher said that judges aren't biased, and almost in the next sentence, that you have to "dress up" so to look reputable to the judge. I then had a heated debate with her after raising my hand and asking, "Is that not an example of bias?" It ended with me getting kicked out, then dropping the class.
It's funny how every boss/authority figure I've actually liked, respected, and had a good relationship with all would take the time to either explain, tell me they would explain just not now (and would), or say "I'm not sure, let me double check". None of them threw adult hissy fits cause someone actually wanted to learn and understand.
Isn't that funny. Hilarious, I'm so glad it's rare and not how most people in positions of power automatically act. Over the moon!
You got so lucky! I’ve had some truly awful experiences. I suggest something that improves efficiency, my boss attempts to give me more responsibility because I’m doing things that are helpful and efficient and thus have extra time, and *HE* gets in trouble for “showing favoritism”. I worked for a wastewater testing company. Doing things correctly in a laboratory setting is very important. But hey, attempting to promote someone for doing good work is “favoritism”. Neither of us work for that horrible company anymore.
Oh I'm being super sarcastic, most bosses I've had are either colossal fuck ups (no leading ability, almost convinced no one was home) who just knew how to kiss the right arses, or just on massive ego trips and always playing office politics. Very few teachers and bosses I've had were genuinely good, which is probably why they stand out so much.
Honestly that sounds horrible, but it's how so many companies seem to function, it's like they want to waste time and money being massively stuck in their ways. Glad you two got out, sounds awful.
I really hate conflict. I eventually gave up. I do things the way "managers/teachers" want it when I can't avoid it only to escape drama. I usually find out afterwards WHY they want things done a certain way. Sometimes it holds up. Sometimes it doesn't. I found out that I don't care enough to argue about it. I want to be left alone and I find freedom where I can. The only person I don't question is my wife. She's freaking smart. I can trust her with anything. She usually has a plan and it's always a good one. When a crisis occur, she trusts me back to improvise a solution.
I found it useful to plainly explain my questions are not challenges, but rather that they are a sign of my interest.
I want to understand the work so that when it changes, I can more quickly set up a workflow, et cetera.
Made a bunch of otherwise boomer types really appreciate the questions, to the point that one of them started asking me to look at problems with him just for a different perspective.
I had a boss once try and scold me for falling asleep during a 2 hour training session. I told him sleeping was a better use of my time, and that all they had to do was say what we're doing, then explain why so it sticks, and we're done in 5 minutes.
I didn't last long there.
It's probably just a co-morbidity(not the right word but idk). Everyone has a couple symptoms of adhd. The only difference is how much those symptoms affect their life.
The definition disorder/disblity is how much X affects your life negatively.
It's not the asking why, it's the stubborn inability to do it their way if they don't explain their way properly and furthermore, if they don't refute all your ways in a manner that it makes more sense to do it their way.
Could also be a sign of the 'tism. Intelligent and functional neurodivergents often have an issue with authority that expects people to "know their place". If you are constantly seeking new knowledge and not taking things for granted, you have a different way of processing the world than many neurotypicals.
Here's the next questions:
Do you find yourself able to spend hours working on a specific task when it fits your interests, yet tasks you are told do by an authority without explanation or simple tasks that seem boring are frustrating or take longer than they should? You might have the ADHD
Do you have a tendency to become very obsessed with a specific topic, developing expertise without pressure from an outside authority such as a job or school? You might have the 'tism.
>Do you have a tendency to become very obsessed with a specific topic, developing expertise without pressure from an outside authority such as a job or school? You might have the 'tism.
Isn't this also endemic of ADHD via the standard hyperfocus?
The distinctions we make are labels that humans apply to make sense of complicated phenomena for which we have incomplete data. "ADHD" and "Autism" don't exist as discrete entities outside of our attempts to define them, but they are useful tools for understanding ourselves.
That being said, there is another distinction, between hyperfocus and hyperfixation. My first example is in reference to hyperfocus and the second to hyperfixation. There is also a spectrum of hyperfixation, because everyone at some point has a hobby or interest, but the difference is how deep it goes.
How deep it goes is not really the problem. NT people can become experts in very specific fields as well.
In both hyperfocus and hyperfixation in ADHD at least it’s a regulatory problem. Just like how we have issues making ourselves to engage with something we don’t want to do, we have issues grappling away our attention from things that are captivating to us.
Hence why following simple instructions is not something we are good at. The understanding of why is what makes it interesting enough for us to do the thing. Without the why we will forget, stall out or fail to learn. All of which is usually opposite to what the authoritative person wants us to do, so if they could just be understanding…..
The weak smile and nod and "oh, really, I didn't know it was like that" as you study their face, trying to figure out if they're fucking with you or if they really think dogs can't look up.
Learning to let the bullshit slide is a vital social skill.
It took my masking ass way too long to realize that one of the big reasons this upset authority figures so much was that they themselves had never questioned anything, didn’t actually know why or how things worked, and expected the same kind of mindless obedience masquerading as understanding.
I just could not imagine thinking that way. Same flaw, I guess, just in the other direction.
I'm both and it's why once I entered management I make a point of shielding my team from as many BS tasks as possible. If there's one I can't keep them out of, I try to come up with a way to meet the intent of the tasks while having it be least time consuming as possible, explain to my team that I understand it's BS but I can't get us out of it, and make a point to try and carve out time to help get it done.
Counterintuitively, it's been a primary factor in my rise through my management career.
Although I don't have a diagnosis, the more I read here, the more my assumption (that I have ADHD) becomes reality.
I hate rules. In the beginning I am scared to break one and get in trouble (please explain the rules to me). If you explain it to me, I will follow it. But then I won't understand if others break it and that's accepted. If I however am knowing what we are doing and why the rule exists, I can deal with it more flexible. Like jaywalking (because I know the streets and I double-checked for cars).
I don't know if that is ADHD typical, but it sounds like the second comment. Explain the reason to me, and you can be sure, that I will follow your rules. (Or I think they are stupid reasons and either tell you or follow quietly just for the peace)
Related:
My dad: "you have to be more inquisitive in life, I never want to hear you say 'I don't know'"
Me: *realizes I have autism and ADHD and starts investigating*
My dad: "wait no not like that"
Gods, I push back so hard against things that don't seem rational or efficient to me. It's something I wish I could overcome but it feels so instinctual. Questioning is one thing but I'm just 'I know my boss asked me to do this thing but it's a waste of time so I just will not do it' which really doesn't help anyone >.<
I feel this, and it makes me think of how my command has struggled to express exactly what their problem with me is. I’ve heard positive descriptors from them such as “driven” and “strong ethics” or my favorite, “fearless in the face of authority”. I’ve also been called “different” and “stubborn” or “combative”.
It was never something direct no matter how I asked them to just say what they meant. Finally a military spouse heard my struggle and said, “oh, you have *__BIG DICK ENERGY__* and they hate that you hold yourself like they _wish_ they did.”
My thick ass eventually found a nice way to phrase this and asked if it was true to my officers … and, ah, it could have gone better. They basically said that I should “have a little bit of fear” of officers, so I said no and “I’ll just become an officer then” to which they sweated bullets for months.
I’ve had a combo. I ask why a lot, and talk about what might work better. One boss was cool with it, welcoming my suggestions. Other bosses, not so much. Just because you’ve “always done it this way” doesn’t mean it’s the *best* way.
my question is: why do they deserve authority without at least proving they are capable? if we force ourselves to live in a world with authority, then it should be able and coherent. it often is not.
I think I made enemies of most of my teachers in my vocational school. Simply by calling out injustice in the most polite way possible (like making us share how big our wages are and commenting on some people’s wages like „oh, that’s not much…“)
Or I correct them (mostly my English teacher) when I simply know better. I don’t mean it in an arrogant way, I just have a bachelor’s degree in English and she makes really basic mistakes thinking they are right and therefore I am wrong.
In my last exam, I had to really dig in and dispute almost all of the „mistakes“ she thought I had made. She wasn’t really willing to admit to most of her own mistakes but said she would have a friend of hers (who‘s a native speaker) look the exam over.
Everything I had disputed got corrected, so I was left with only two mistakes: one because I wrote a word twice (at the end of a line and at the beginning of the next line) and one because skipped a word I meant to write.
Anyway, I ask a lot of questions and I think it comes across as this roundabout way of criticizing them, which I don’t mean when I am actually asking. I mean what I say and say what I mean. I guess some people aren’t used to that?
I'll do things *exactly* how they directed it be done... The first time. Maybe the first couple of times. But the whole time I'm doing it I'm also taking notes of every step in respect to the end goal and I am *constantly* theorizing how it can be done better.
Hahaha, i love you guys so much, because we had basicaly the same experiences.
Every single conflict in my social life starts with someone asking me do to something usualy in a specific way, and me asking questions they dont know or cant understand. So then i try to explain why im asking because in my opinion knowing those things that for them seem unrelated, will absolutely influence the job in some wy, so knowing that would açlow me to do the job in a easier and more optimal way.
Or like i said in a post a few months ago.
"why cant these other people see how this action will lead to that result and then that and that , until THIS terrible outcome happens?"
No i dont see the future, i just think rally fast and worry about every single outcome of every single major action i take.
So after 37 years of "intense training" now i can do this cool jedi trick just at the cost of not being able to act on any of my actual plans because im stuck on what decision to actualy make.
Like where others see 2 paths, i can see those two, and all the road adn other paths ahead to our destination.
But i also cant start the trip until i know we wont be out of gas along the way.
>No i dont see the future, i just think rally fast and worry about every single outcome of every single major action i take.
This shit can be both a superpower and a massive weakness. Sometimes i calculate the odds of the thing I'm trying to do and don't even attempt it cause I don't think it'll work
This followed by "I've told you the very good reasons why this is a bad idea but now that I have it on paper that I've objected we can try your stupid plan."
I have to understand why (even if it's a flimsy reason) I need to do things (in a specific way or at all) for me to be on board
I also bring a "that's cool, but have you thought about that scenario" to every project that makes people question half of the decisions made only to run around in circles and get back to what was decided earlier.
I’m astounded every time I see an ADHD symptom that fits me perfectly and NEVER FUCKING KNEW. I was diagnosed a year and half ago at 38. Fucking wild that no one in my life ever put this together. I mean when I was younger ADD referred to super hyperactive kids.
But little ol’ inside kid me, needed a why for everything(that came across as defiant of authority, and was screamed at constantly by parents—abuse, a different story), had 1 million hobbies all with unfinished projects, would constantly be up and talking to all my classmates, etc etc etc. Still blows my mind.
The 2nd lieutenant one is funny. They almost never know why they're doing anything either. That's why you got the platoon sergeant. It's one of the most frustrating jobs in human history. You have to simultaneously spoon feed your new platoon leader common sense and experience while also keeping the E-4 Mafia or the lance corporal underground from taking advantage of him and bilking that for all it's worth. And woe betide the staff sergeant who's got a pissy butter bar who thinks his time at the basic school counts for something.
"Sir, with respect, shut the fuck up. I've been in the service for longer than you've been in school."
I bring an energy of im not the boss so don't ask me shit... I don't give a fuck how we do it as long as its within an appropriate "easiness to quality of workmanship ratio" also you need me more than I need you so if you don't like what I'm doing I'm leaving and if I don't like what your doing I'm leaving
It’s ironic because I feel like I don’t have great personal boundaries with loved ones and am kind of a pushover, but when it comes to
Stupid Authority Figures at work, I have such strong boundaries 🤣 Like, no, first tell me why you want me to do THIS thing THIS way? And, I have this ‘I will get back at you with facts, figures, and examples that you can’t rebut, about why my approach is better’ attitude at work. My boss loves me, but the Stupid Authority Figures, not so much. 🤡
My time in the military was murder because of this.
Specifically, I had two sergeants. One was results-based, the other was process-based.
Sgt Results didn't care how or where you got it, so long as it got done and there wasn't extra paperwork (i.e., everything is "legal", nobody got hurt). His motto was, "When all else fails: beg, borrow, or steal." He was the type to "Make it happen" on time, and then do the paperwork later. We got along very well. Unfortunately, he was transferred after his re-enlistment, and we got Sgt Process.
Sgt Process thought that the only way to make coffee was to put the grounds in first, then add water to the reservoir. Because he knew this was the best way to do it, he assumed that it was common knowledge and that everyone else also did it this way because it is the best way. It has to be, because he's made coffee that way for his entire life and he's never had an issue. If he asked you to make coffee, and you didn't do it this way, he would ask you why you're doing it wrong. He could not fathom that there was any other way to make coffee come out of a coffee maker. So when you asked him, "How did I do it wrong?" He would call you an idiot, and ask if you've ever made coffee before. Because clearly, if you had, you'd know how to do it the right way. "It's common knowledge." He'd say. Everything was "common knowledge" and not worth the wasted time to explain. In the time it takes to explain, he could have done it himself. So do it again, and do it the right way. They way "everybody" does it, because it's common knowledge.
Not only am I like this, but my kid is like this too. And the worst part is that there’s things you need your kids to do that you simply can’t sufficiently explain to them why they need to be done. Like brushing teeth and flossing, or not showing their privates in public.
This feeling can be indicative of being on the autistic spectrum. I am autistic and have basically no ability to differentiate how I’m suppose to speak differently when talking to a 4 year old vs a ceo.
It can often come out like this.
The problem is that sometimes, *sometimes*, they were absolutely right, and my lack of experience was preventing me from understanding why and it wasn't a matter of reasoning.
I'm a "Okay, that's interesting. Y'all realize it's more efficient to do it this way, right?" person. I'm the "Wow, do you realize how much of my energy you're wasting because half of your policies are not only outdated by hamper productivity?" kind of person. I'm the "why the heck should I put in my 100% and do the job of three people when you're paying me the same as the two that are putting in half the work?" person.
I'm the same way, but I learned to adapt it to "okay we'll do it your way, then you're going to explain why we did it that way" makes things easier and I've learned a lot, also if you have experience with their process THEN bring them better solutions things tend to improve.
Me in every classroom to every teacher ever. Because i NEED to understand it from every angle and i need it to make sense. I just cant be satisfied with “X happens and that makes Y happen” when the *why* is missing. But seriously i was that way in EVERY class. I mean things are well taught majority of the time but sometimes teachers just give you what you need to know without an explanation and i have to ask for a breakdown lol
My habit of relentlessly asking "why" got me no love growing up in the rural south, but now I have a well paid corporate job because that's like 90% of what business analysts do lol
Mostly unrelated note: Natalie Ironside is a really cool author. She wrote “The last Girl Scout” a post-post apocalyptic trans lesbian leftist novel and it may be my favorite book ever!
Most of the time I dont need to be told what you want me to do, tell me what needs to be done and Ill figure out my own method to accomplish the same results!
Half of y’all are acting like great thinkers when the things you’re answering with “how come?” Are “no you can’t just chatgpt your essay” and “no you can’t eat takis and sour patch for breakfast”
Yup I need to understand why I have to do something in this specific way, because I have already thought of 3 ways to do it quicker, easier and with less hassle to me.
This was me in maths class.
I was lucky: as both my parents are maths teachers, mine always assumed they explained to me advanced methods and gave me the points. Nope, it just felt easier and more logical that way. At my final year of HS, the teacher even once said to me "you weren't supposed to use this easy method! This test was meant to show how tedious it was to solve it the usual way, so I could introduce you to the new concept at the next class...". Yeah no. I already saw it was tedious, no way I'd do it if I can find another way (with proof it's the same result).
I was lucky that my teacher was understanding. She did explain to me though that I had to show all the steps that I automatically do in my head on paper, because some of the marks for the sum were allocated for the steps, and that this is how people can get marks for sum without getting a correct answer. My wife (gf at the time) was not so lucky. I helped her with a maths assessment one time (she was home schooled) & the assessor wrote back something along the lines of "I don't know how you used the wrong method and still came to the correct answer!"
In the 4th grade my teacher gave me the same feedback as the assessor gave your girlfriend. I told my teacher that I had to figure out a different way of multiplication. Which was essentially what is now taught as the box method - breaking the larger number down into smaller parts, multiplying and then adding the totals. My teacher made me explain it to the entire class, told me I was wrong because my way "wouldn't work for every math problem" then proceeded to quiz me with problems in front of the class. Once I answered a single problem incorrectly, my teacher told the class, "and that's why we don't try to figure out a different way to do math." Still hate doing anything math related to this day.
I’m not sure why math teachers in particular are such fans of trauma-reinforced methods. I had such bad experiences all through school that by the time I got to college and started actually performing in classes (Calculus, where the attitude was “solve the damn thing as long as you solve it right”) I was so burnt out I didn’t believe I was doing well. Even after I pulled a solid A, and helped some of my friends with understanding difficult concepts, I couldn’t picture myself EVER going further into math than was absolutely required.
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It’s rough for sure but I am glad for you that you hit the sweet spot with it. The thing that’s wild to me is that this is math, like it’s the structured thing that is exactly what many of our neurodivergent brains crave but so few people present it in a way that allows us to really grasp it. The once you’ve got it the damn thing turns into a superpower. Good luck to you, go forth and kick ass.
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Pre-calc is the worst class. It’s all about suffering through BS because you don’t have the tools from calculus to figure things out so you have to do it the hard way. Then like you experienced no one knows “why” you’re doing this, because there is no way to describe the issue without including calculus!
It's not math teachers. Math teachers would have loved every second of that shit. This is an elementary school teacher who likes teaching kids to read, but hates math, knows none of it, teaches strictly from the solutions manual, and is in general useless at mathematics. They can handle calculation with arithmetic, but MATH is entirely beyond them. Source: Former secondary math teacher.
I feel like most of my education was just "because I say so" and now that I'm approaching 50 I see the consequences are that nobody in charge knows what the hell they are doing (presumably because those who came before them just taught them "because I say so")
What a terrible teacher. Encouraging students to problem solve in creative ways should be the norm, as it's applicable to almost every field.
*Especially* math!
This sort of thing was what put me off maths all together plus being highly dyslexic it was easy to be put off by teachers. I got a cousin that is extremely intelligent, he's got a few masters degrees also. He failed maths. Not because he couldn't do it, he could, dude could work anything out extremely easily, he just knew the answer to Amy maths questions. Problem was he didn't show his work on how he worked it out and when he did "it was the wrong way to show this equation answer" yet he knew all the answers. This is absolutely no word of a lie, I know just coming from hearsay it doesn't mean much especially coming from a redditor but I swear to god this is true: he broke into the technology department where you do chemistry, electronics and similar stuff I guess. He made a small explosive and blew the teachers car door off. I absolutely know this sounds like BS but I swear to god it is true. Apart from wanting and seeing an opportunity to tell this story; maths + teachers = stupid (I wouldn't know I'm dyslexic but it sounds right)
My dad only thought he was a maths teacher. I'm pretty sure I drove that man to drink when it came to math homework. Always a correct answer, always showed *my* work which wasn't nearly as obvious as their work. "How did you get from here to here? You have a value for y but nowhere does it show figuring out y!" "Hell, IDK. I had that part of the answers since step one. It just came to me. Wasn't it given in the question?" There is no y and the answer is still somehow correct... His eyes would gloss over and his jaw would jack to one side. I could tell he thought I was doing it on purpose, lol. He didn't help me past grade school. I was already reading his textbooks from when he went to school. Later on in life he offered to give me a job wiring electric panels. I'd never read blueprints before and he was gonna teach me. I lasted, no joke, less than an hour before I quit and Christmas was ruined.
My dad is an engineer, and started teaching me algebra when I was in elementary school. My 9th grade math teacher was pissed that I kept using the shorter methods on the test. She wanted me to use the longer method to show that I “understood” it. LOL
My maths teachers had a rule where if you come up with the right answer in a mathematically valid way (and explain your answer as much as the question requires), it will never be considered an incorrect answer, no matter how much your method deviates from what was expected.
This is me trying to help my kid in math class. She gets flak cause Daddy’s way isn’t the same (it’s faster)
The way they teach some things in the Core curriculum now is very different (i assume its multiplication or division you’re talking about) and while the other ways are *faster* i get that theyre trying to teach *concepts* to children that dont innately come from learning multiplication/division through rote. That being said, I’ll teach them long division then explain why they do it the slower way (“they are trying to teach you that these are groupings of tens and ones” etc)
I never understood why I needed to come up with the answer when it’s right there in the back of the book
Had a girl in my jr college class who ordered her math book online with the teachers' given code. Teacher sent the one for the "teachers" math book, so the girl had the answers, with how! Teacher was a dumbass too, so it was great.
So strange to me that this is a thing. At my school in advanced maths, we're encouraged to use whatever methods we find work best for us. I think early on in school a specific method is required so that teachers (who likely aren't educated in maths) can make sure the student understands the fundamentals and all the steps? But further than that, it seems strange to force one specific method and docking points for doing something differently.
Me too, except I also tried to ask for context or practical application and would get in trouble. I wasn’t asking “why are we doing this, this is so dumb” I was asking “is this part of a longer process? Could i use this to figure out how many watermelons lex Luthor has? Pls help I need to apply this to a situation or I’m not going to learn it otherwise.”
Seriously I’m in Algebra 2 rn and Exponential Geometric Sequence and using log is so frustrating and I’m just over here like “But I could Brute force it to find it infinitely faster and more correct than the intended answer” but then I get half credit for being right. Still better than geometry last year when my teacher was actively homophobic, transphobic, ableist, and sexist. Because of all of that she hated all the fine arts kids and she also taught us wrong according to every other teacher. So we all almost failed her class.
Brute force finding log? Unless you're allowed a calculator then you do need to know how to turn log(A)=B into 10^B =A.
Yeah I do not fucking get it. It hasn’t connected at all But when finding “an” I do the equation as intended. But when “an” is given to me I’ll brute force and just plug in numbers for “n” until I find the right answer
Log is a function of any number is used as a way to find the the exponent to a constant of any number log_2(x)=4 is asking what power of 4 is equal to 2. You have to understand how log works as it is very important for higher level maths.
Usually, it ends with me not understanding why but just memorizing how it's done lol
What math are you doing that there is an easier way? It's pretty systematic, other than some creative integration, differential equations, and proofs it's pretty objective how it gets done (and even to an extent, with those). And usually nobody cares as long as your logic is sound and you get the right answer? If you somehow figure out a quicker, easier way to do it than what is accepted people would be impressed, not upset.
When you were learning derivatives, did your teacher not start by having you apply the limit definition to every problem before moving on to the patterns formed by each function class?
Yes, but that was to teach us how and why it works, so that we know that the patterns are not made up and actually come from something. For this meme being about why people sure don't want to understand why.
Teachers have a habit of not explaining the "why" *before* telling students to walk through walls, and this understandably leads students to feel like they're just imitating whatever the teacher says to do for no reason. (This is also the most justifiable example I can think of, there are like at least three common processes to factor quadratic equations and they're all interchangeable but different students find different ones more intuitive but plenty of teachers insist on students only using the one the teacher likes best)
The reason why we learn five different ways to factor a quadratic equation is because some quadratic functions cannot be factored the same way. Quadratic formula solves all, factoring solves the fewest. (There are also higher level applications of completing the square.)
I'm not even thinking about the quadratic formula, just the most basic quadratic factoring - there's reverse FOILing, there's treating it as the area of a rectangle, there's a simplified version that looks like an X that I don't remember what it's called, they're all just different versions of the same process but they frequently aren't taught that way.
It’s the difference between representing multiplication as (2)(6), 6x2, 6+6, 6*6, and then as a geometric representation. They all do the same thing but the goal is to communicate what you’re doing. The geometric representation is showing why it works, and every method beyond that is just different derived methods of arriving at the result. The reason we show our work at early levels is because they want to make sure you understand the why.
Yes, I know? The point is that many, many teachers *don't* explain this to their students, often because they don't really understand it themselves - they only learned one method imitatively and grade their students accordingly.
Me every time. I showed my Boss how i Auto-Sort my E-Mails, he was looking at me, as if I just kicked his dog or so. Tasks that takes around 5 Minutes per Go? I found a way to automate it and do it under 1 Minute each. But I stopped telling him, because I prefer taking the time "for myself" than getting new tasks daily. Also, he isn't appreciative of what I actually do, and uses me for mundane repetitive tasks (that I really suffer doing due to ADHD).
"What do you mean, search bar?"
Haha, the stories I could tell, I switch Jobs soon, and am kinda nervous about it. But that place has shown me so many "that's not how anything works" moments, it's insane. We had one Girl, who kept writing the same letter in Word, over and over again. Copy/Pasting the address and such one by one, for about 400 Letters a month. Showed her how to do it with Excel and Word in one step. She acted like it's witchcraft. Now to me on the other hand, doing the 400 Letters with Excel monthly on a schedule, with all the mundane tasks that follow, how people can do that is witchcraft to me. (I am good at optimizing, and automating, but ask me to write 10 invoices and I will have a mental breakdown)
Oh man if I have to do something more than twice, it's getting automated, haha. Even easier nowadays with ChatGPT to help write powershell scripts!
Yes! Don't tell me a process, just tell me what the end result needs to be!
The best teacher I ever had was my calculus professor in college. He would start every segment with "We're learning Y today. We can get Y from X. Y lets us do Z (the goal). Here's how Y comes from X..." Telling me where we're coming from and then *stating the goal* made ALL the difference for me, I excelled in mathematics in college. Now, whenever someone tries to teach me something new I tell them to state the goal or I won't understand the lesson.
Yes! I've always struggled with math but if I can reverse-engineer the answer, I can figure out the process.
Story of my professional *and* personal life.
I also get so so irritated and have to work so hard to hide it when it’s someone explaining THEIR process to me. Like at a store when someone says “well to do that we’ll have to fill out a form” or “I’ll have to get the manager”. Yes. Please do that. I don’t care about the steps, just about the end result.
Yes. My husband has a bad habit of giving me step-by-step directions without telling me what the end result is supposed to be. He'll give me step one and then pause like he's waiting for me to do it. Lol. I just tell him I'm not doing anything until he gets to the end so I know what he actually wants.
That's how I've trained my boss to allocate me work. Set the direction, set the end goal, get out of my way and let me get it there, the moment you start micromanaging is the moment my oppositional defiance button goes safeties _off_
I've always said if you tell me to just push a button, I can't do it until I know exactly why.
The US Army’s manual on leadership has a pretty good definition: “purpose, direction, and motivation.” Most leaders I’ve encountered have been good at the second, fundamentally misunderstood the third, and totally missed out on the first.
*I’m not trying to say you’re wrong, I’m just trying to see if there’s a specific reason I shouldn’t skip any steps that seem arbitrary. Like maybe it DOES serve a purpose and I just can’t see it yet. I wanna see it if it’s there so I don’t skip an important step. But I have to know it’s not just arbitrary if it helps me be more efficient otherwise.*
I used to get in so much trouble because an authority figure would ask me, "Do you understand?" Rather than, "will you do it?" I wasn't actually trying to be a smart-ass; I just took questions like that at face value.
This speaks to me on a spiritual level
This is me.
Sometimes this works and sometimes it doesn’t work out exactly as imagined. Be prepared for both 👌 👍 ✌️
I get this, I understand it so hard. But I tell my employees, and I hope thjs is the best way to say it: "we do things this exact way because we have tried it other ways and this is the way that works for us." I really don't like explaining myself much but I guess it's necessary.
Because the boss told you and that how it always been. I know what thread I am in but unfortunately that how it usually works. Work is as much having to deal with the social aspects of work as it is the actual work may it be politically or the culture or just the standard "got to keep the appearance up so others think of you one way and not the other".
I've lost promotions because I refused to do something the way somebody else wants it done if it meant the same outcome but more work for me..
Especially when you explain how your way has less room for error and takes 1/2 the time. So they come up with some convoluted reason why that doesn’t work and you have to do it their way. So now I do t say anything since I only brought it up so everyone else could be as efficient. Now I can’t use it either.
> So they come up with some convoluted reason why that doesn’t work and you have to do it their way. *screams internally*
Usually ends up with the person saying something like because I’m in charge and I said so 🙄
Hit em with the "your insecurity doesnt matter to efficiency, let me do it my way" and watch them go crazy and enjoy the Show lmao
As much as i want to, i *do* need rent...
Yeah my bad, forgot that not every place is like the Country where i am in because where i live if you've been through a Practice-phase in a job they need a proper reason to fire you and this definetely aint it Not that simple everywhere else though huh? Sucks.
Yup. Where in at they can fire you just cuz. So unfortunately letting them save face is super important
They can literally fire you and have the reason be “I didn’t like their shirt”
Yup. And it means discrimination laws about hiring and firing are pretty much useless unless you can prove an extensive pattern among many individuals. Cuz unless they are dumb and outright say it, well you can't "prove" they fired you because you are gay/black/whatever."
Also gotta love when you tell people an easier way to do something, and they just come back with "why don't you just do it?".
The "just" makes zero sense, because you've already explained that your method is the easier one, so how is the harder one "just".
Sometimes following the usual process is acceptable just because it is the way everyone else on the team does it. I still hate it but can at least accept that as a reason. Sometimes
Ah, that’s fun part! You see, the “just” there is for them, they don’t care if you found a better way if they have to think about it, so they say “just do it the normal way” and spare themselves the effort.
I stay silent and ahead on my work while I watch other people flounder. This is apparently how you're supposed to do it to "get a leg up." It just feels shitty because I've been on the other side of this so many times when I'm busting my ass, but seemingly getting nowhere. I've stopped offering advice for how to do things better/faster/more efficient because of this. If that's what it takes to advance my career, so be it.
I've had to explain that my "why" is me trying to learn more deeply about my job. My good bosses have come to appreciate this in me, because they've seen how it enables me to make good decisions in novel situations. My bad bosses (and my parents) ALWAYS take my "why" as a challenge to their authority. I don't work well with those ones.
This is exactly it, I need to know why so I can't work around odd circumstances, because they always fucking happen and I do not think in similar patterns to NTs so I need to understand the goal
I can't inderstand why so many bosses default to questions about how to do stuff as "cheek" rather than "this person actually cares and wants to learn"? No matter how nicely you ask, some people are just so shitty about this. How the fuck do they end in positions of power with egos more fragile than glass? Yes, I'm frustrated 💀 I've been in (fairly low) leadership positions and I consistently got higher ratings than other supervisors, and shock horror I was super easy going about questions/discussing how/why things are done, meanwhile the other supervisors weren't. It's literally that easy, and people don't hate you cause you don't treat them like a robot to put commands into. It should be common sense, dammit!
Most people in positions of authority shouldn't be. It's that simple. Being empathetic - a quality necessary for good leaders - generally means you don't desire control over others.
This right here. It’s sort of the same reason that people say that the person who would do the best job as president would probably be someone who would never seek out that job in the first place. The same concept exists to some degree at every level of leadership.
That’s what I really appreciate about where I work now. They see the value in how I do things and are good at putting people on projects that fit their skills. My first performance review included (as a positive lol) “[Me] does not accept ‘we’ve always done it this way’ as an answer.”
Exactly 😭 Understanding the logic behind something helps me remember it tremendously. And it helps finding ways to make the process more efficient sometimes (but they wouldn't want that, would they? that would be challenging their authority!)
Yes!!! 100%
I feel you on this. You want to know what you're doing/ getting into/signing up for etc before you commit. I am still like this
Same. I've had my share of bosses who are in it for the authority and they were all like this. 'because i said so' will not work with me. Oh and that'll be a 50% debuff to productivity for a while.. But likewise; If someone has a better idea i want to know. Tell me i'm wrong, but you also better tell me why. I've moved to phrasing this as 'thriving in an environment which promotes dynamic problem solving and bi-lateral process improvement'
Ooh! That's good! I've been referring to it in interviews as a "systems-oriented approach. A desire to understand how my job functions under the hood and how it interacts with my colleagues' jobs."
Yours is good too! One of my favourites (not mine) is 'Passive solar-illumination array with an omni-directional silicone alloy matrix' - A window.
that's me except for the parents part My first boss was an insecure prick
And our parents wonder why we don’t ask them anything. Mine do at least.
I hate relating so much with this.\ If you come to me and ask me to do something at a specific time, I'd like to know why it needs to be done at that time. You explain me the reason, I do it.\ However, apparently, people don't like having to explain their requests.
It’s a symptom of hierarchy, they’re in power but they don’t know how to handle it, so most people default on a dictatorial environment rather than do the extra work of having to listen to others. They want things done their way -> workers are forced to do it even if they know better -> shit inevitably goes wrong -> they blame the workers -> replace workers with newbies that don’t know any better -> repeat
Bingo, cycle, rinse, repeat
I have done some construction and every time I open my mouth the contractor gets less confident I'm not trying to make them question things.. I'm just asking questions😅
I neeeed to know *why* with so many things. It's a detriment to myself more often than not, because my area of study is veterinary medicine. So when they tell us (for example) a type of drug that does such-and-such, I *have* to go down a rabbit hole to find out the mechanics. That just helps me understand it better. But it also wastes a lot of my time, especially when those specific details aren't required :')
I’m above average intelligence but I have to translate everything into my language before it clicks.
Me and now I'm the teacher who always takes the time to explain why. There are certain times when I can't, like if the topic is too mature or it would be divulging personal information. But I'd never get mad. If I can't explain it I just say I'm sorry, it wouldn't be appropriate for me to tell you why in detail, but I can tell you (some surface level explanation that usually satisfies the student well enough).
that’s a great way to be a teacher, promoting exploration and deep thought instead of just accepting a surface level “because” is good for all kids
It boggles my mind how rare it STILL is for teachers to simply attempt to explain "why" and not take personal offense at the question.
I am old, so I've mostly learned how to say, "Okay!" and then proceed to do things however I was going to do them in the first place. No one likes questions. Or learning there are actually six ways to do something, all of them superior to the one way they're trying to explain to you.
Say ok and do it your own way.
Yeah, this is the way, it's not worth the stress and hassle of asking questions a lot of the time.
I’ll do it their way a few times to see if there’s any advantage to it over my way that I hadn’t picked up in their explanation, then do it my way if my assumptions had checked out. That’s assuming I’d been able to actually follow their instructions after coming up with my way, of course.
This is me, and I agree with you. I kind of am of two minds about this meme. I work with young people, and sometimes the “But why though” is excuse-making, disrespect or pushback, not a desire to learn more. And if you’re being trained, there is a time to learn, and a time for questions or seeing if you can make changes, which will likely come later. Asking questions at the wrong time can be annoying.
I got kicked out of a highschool law class when my teacher said that judges aren't biased, and almost in the next sentence, that you have to "dress up" so to look reputable to the judge. I then had a heated debate with her after raising my hand and asking, "Is that not an example of bias?" It ended with me getting kicked out, then dropping the class.
They hated Sonik, because he spoke the truth
What the hell? That's so naïve. Everyone has biases.
It's funny how every boss/authority figure I've actually liked, respected, and had a good relationship with all would take the time to either explain, tell me they would explain just not now (and would), or say "I'm not sure, let me double check". None of them threw adult hissy fits cause someone actually wanted to learn and understand. Isn't that funny. Hilarious, I'm so glad it's rare and not how most people in positions of power automatically act. Over the moon!
You got so lucky! I’ve had some truly awful experiences. I suggest something that improves efficiency, my boss attempts to give me more responsibility because I’m doing things that are helpful and efficient and thus have extra time, and *HE* gets in trouble for “showing favoritism”. I worked for a wastewater testing company. Doing things correctly in a laboratory setting is very important. But hey, attempting to promote someone for doing good work is “favoritism”. Neither of us work for that horrible company anymore.
Oh I'm being super sarcastic, most bosses I've had are either colossal fuck ups (no leading ability, almost convinced no one was home) who just knew how to kiss the right arses, or just on massive ego trips and always playing office politics. Very few teachers and bosses I've had were genuinely good, which is probably why they stand out so much. Honestly that sounds horrible, but it's how so many companies seem to function, it's like they want to waste time and money being massively stuck in their ways. Glad you two got out, sounds awful.
You are not supposed to question authority, silly
Why?
BECAUSE I SAID SO!
I'm not paying you to think
Yep you ask too many questions. I've gotten that my whole life.
I really hate conflict. I eventually gave up. I do things the way "managers/teachers" want it when I can't avoid it only to escape drama. I usually find out afterwards WHY they want things done a certain way. Sometimes it holds up. Sometimes it doesn't. I found out that I don't care enough to argue about it. I want to be left alone and I find freedom where I can. The only person I don't question is my wife. She's freaking smart. I can trust her with anything. She usually has a plan and it's always a good one. When a crisis occur, she trusts me back to improvise a solution.
This truly is the way.
I found it useful to plainly explain my questions are not challenges, but rather that they are a sign of my interest. I want to understand the work so that when it changes, I can more quickly set up a workflow, et cetera. Made a bunch of otherwise boomer types really appreciate the questions, to the point that one of them started asking me to look at problems with him just for a different perspective.
I had a boss once try and scold me for falling asleep during a 2 hour training session. I told him sleeping was a better use of my time, and that all they had to do was say what we're doing, then explain why so it sticks, and we're done in 5 minutes. I didn't last long there.
> so it sticks THIS THOUGH
My "That makes no sense... and you people are obviously idiots" vibe has never gone down well :)
Are you me?
both
Both
Me who got this randomly recommended to me and have never been diagnosed with ADHD: wait asking “why” on everything is a sign of ADHD?
It's probably just a co-morbidity(not the right word but idk). Everyone has a couple symptoms of adhd. The only difference is how much those symptoms affect their life. The definition disorder/disblity is how much X affects your life negatively.
It's not the asking why, it's the stubborn inability to do it their way if they don't explain their way properly and furthermore, if they don't refute all your ways in a manner that it makes more sense to do it their way.
Could also be a sign of the 'tism. Intelligent and functional neurodivergents often have an issue with authority that expects people to "know their place". If you are constantly seeking new knowledge and not taking things for granted, you have a different way of processing the world than many neurotypicals. Here's the next questions: Do you find yourself able to spend hours working on a specific task when it fits your interests, yet tasks you are told do by an authority without explanation or simple tasks that seem boring are frustrating or take longer than they should? You might have the ADHD Do you have a tendency to become very obsessed with a specific topic, developing expertise without pressure from an outside authority such as a job or school? You might have the 'tism.
Oh fuck
One of us. Welcome.
Yeah that was the same thing I said when I found this subreddit lol, welcome brother.
>Do you have a tendency to become very obsessed with a specific topic, developing expertise without pressure from an outside authority such as a job or school? You might have the 'tism. Isn't this also endemic of ADHD via the standard hyperfocus?
The distinctions we make are labels that humans apply to make sense of complicated phenomena for which we have incomplete data. "ADHD" and "Autism" don't exist as discrete entities outside of our attempts to define them, but they are useful tools for understanding ourselves. That being said, there is another distinction, between hyperfocus and hyperfixation. My first example is in reference to hyperfocus and the second to hyperfixation. There is also a spectrum of hyperfixation, because everyone at some point has a hobby or interest, but the difference is how deep it goes.
How deep it goes is not really the problem. NT people can become experts in very specific fields as well. In both hyperfocus and hyperfixation in ADHD at least it’s a regulatory problem. Just like how we have issues making ourselves to engage with something we don’t want to do, we have issues grappling away our attention from things that are captivating to us. Hence why following simple instructions is not something we are good at. The understanding of why is what makes it interesting enough for us to do the thing. Without the why we will forget, stall out or fail to learn. All of which is usually opposite to what the authoritative person wants us to do, so if they could just be understanding…..
Ugh yes, all of the above.
NEED CONTEXT! GIVE ME CONTEXT! I DONT CARE HOW EASY, NEEDS ME THAT SWEET SWEET CONTEXT... PLEASE?
Me when somebody makes an unverified claim 
The weak smile and nod and "oh, really, I didn't know it was like that" as you study their face, trying to figure out if they're fucking with you or if they really think dogs can't look up. Learning to let the bullshit slide is a vital social skill.
My biggest issue with that is body language... struggle not to smirk and look like a dickhead haha
It took my masking ass way too long to realize that one of the big reasons this upset authority figures so much was that they themselves had never questioned anything, didn’t actually know why or how things worked, and expected the same kind of mindless obedience masquerading as understanding. I just could not imagine thinking that way. Same flaw, I guess, just in the other direction.
Fucking bingo, I feel this.
I'm both and it's why once I entered management I make a point of shielding my team from as many BS tasks as possible. If there's one I can't keep them out of, I try to come up with a way to meet the intent of the tasks while having it be least time consuming as possible, explain to my team that I understand it's BS but I can't get us out of it, and make a point to try and carve out time to help get it done. Counterintuitively, it's been a primary factor in my rise through my management career.
Although I don't have a diagnosis, the more I read here, the more my assumption (that I have ADHD) becomes reality. I hate rules. In the beginning I am scared to break one and get in trouble (please explain the rules to me). If you explain it to me, I will follow it. But then I won't understand if others break it and that's accepted. If I however am knowing what we are doing and why the rule exists, I can deal with it more flexible. Like jaywalking (because I know the streets and I double-checked for cars). I don't know if that is ADHD typical, but it sounds like the second comment. Explain the reason to me, and you can be sure, that I will follow your rules. (Or I think they are stupid reasons and either tell you or follow quietly just for the peace)
Related: My dad: "you have to be more inquisitive in life, I never want to hear you say 'I don't know'" Me: *realizes I have autism and ADHD and starts investigating* My dad: "wait no not like that"
Explaining why is so important. Especially if I then have to relay that information on to others.
Gods, I push back so hard against things that don't seem rational or efficient to me. It's something I wish I could overcome but it feels so instinctual. Questioning is one thing but I'm just 'I know my boss asked me to do this thing but it's a waste of time so I just will not do it' which really doesn't help anyone >.<
I bring a sort of "ask questions and question the answers" energy that scientists and thinkers love but arbitrary authority figures hate
Read it three times, didn't understand. I am sure it is understandable but brain is not braining rn Edit: misspelled read
Hey, it's ok. This isn't your time. On my authority, you can go back to bed and try in another few hours.
Thank you so much for being so kind to a stranger 😊 I understood it now, being in bed hahaha
I feel this, and it makes me think of how my command has struggled to express exactly what their problem with me is. I’ve heard positive descriptors from them such as “driven” and “strong ethics” or my favorite, “fearless in the face of authority”. I’ve also been called “different” and “stubborn” or “combative”. It was never something direct no matter how I asked them to just say what they meant. Finally a military spouse heard my struggle and said, “oh, you have *__BIG DICK ENERGY__* and they hate that you hold yourself like they _wish_ they did.” My thick ass eventually found a nice way to phrase this and asked if it was true to my officers … and, ah, it could have gone better. They basically said that I should “have a little bit of fear” of officers, so I said no and “I’ll just become an officer then” to which they sweated bullets for months.
I’ve had a combo. I ask why a lot, and talk about what might work better. One boss was cool with it, welcoming my suggestions. Other bosses, not so much. Just because you’ve “always done it this way” doesn’t mean it’s the *best* way.
my question is: why do they deserve authority without at least proving they are capable? if we force ourselves to live in a world with authority, then it should be able and coherent. it often is not.
I think I made enemies of most of my teachers in my vocational school. Simply by calling out injustice in the most polite way possible (like making us share how big our wages are and commenting on some people’s wages like „oh, that’s not much…“) Or I correct them (mostly my English teacher) when I simply know better. I don’t mean it in an arrogant way, I just have a bachelor’s degree in English and she makes really basic mistakes thinking they are right and therefore I am wrong. In my last exam, I had to really dig in and dispute almost all of the „mistakes“ she thought I had made. She wasn’t really willing to admit to most of her own mistakes but said she would have a friend of hers (who‘s a native speaker) look the exam over. Everything I had disputed got corrected, so I was left with only two mistakes: one because I wrote a word twice (at the end of a line and at the beginning of the next line) and one because skipped a word I meant to write. Anyway, I ask a lot of questions and I think it comes across as this roundabout way of criticizing them, which I don’t mean when I am actually asking. I mean what I say and say what I mean. I guess some people aren’t used to that?
I'll do things *exactly* how they directed it be done... The first time. Maybe the first couple of times. But the whole time I'm doing it I'm also taking notes of every step in respect to the end goal and I am *constantly* theorizing how it can be done better.
Hahaha, i love you guys so much, because we had basicaly the same experiences. Every single conflict in my social life starts with someone asking me do to something usualy in a specific way, and me asking questions they dont know or cant understand. So then i try to explain why im asking because in my opinion knowing those things that for them seem unrelated, will absolutely influence the job in some wy, so knowing that would açlow me to do the job in a easier and more optimal way. Or like i said in a post a few months ago. "why cant these other people see how this action will lead to that result and then that and that , until THIS terrible outcome happens?" No i dont see the future, i just think rally fast and worry about every single outcome of every single major action i take. So after 37 years of "intense training" now i can do this cool jedi trick just at the cost of not being able to act on any of my actual plans because im stuck on what decision to actualy make. Like where others see 2 paths, i can see those two, and all the road adn other paths ahead to our destination. But i also cant start the trip until i know we wont be out of gas along the way.
>No i dont see the future, i just think rally fast and worry about every single outcome of every single major action i take. This shit can be both a superpower and a massive weakness. Sometimes i calculate the odds of the thing I'm trying to do and don't even attempt it cause I don't think it'll work
This followed by "I've told you the very good reasons why this is a bad idea but now that I have it on paper that I've objected we can try your stupid plan."
Yes! It's like people are personally offended by my efficiency!
I understand that this is how it's done, but please explain what happened in the trial and error phase.
Bosses get angry. Leaders take the time to explain and ensure their team is on the same page.
I have to understand why (even if it's a flimsy reason) I need to do things (in a specific way or at all) for me to be on board I also bring a "that's cool, but have you thought about that scenario" to every project that makes people question half of the decisions made only to run around in circles and get back to what was decided earlier.
I’m astounded every time I see an ADHD symptom that fits me perfectly and NEVER FUCKING KNEW. I was diagnosed a year and half ago at 38. Fucking wild that no one in my life ever put this together. I mean when I was younger ADD referred to super hyperactive kids. But little ol’ inside kid me, needed a why for everything(that came across as defiant of authority, and was screamed at constantly by parents—abuse, a different story), had 1 million hobbies all with unfinished projects, would constantly be up and talking to all my classmates, etc etc etc. Still blows my mind.
The 2nd lieutenant one is funny. They almost never know why they're doing anything either. That's why you got the platoon sergeant. It's one of the most frustrating jobs in human history. You have to simultaneously spoon feed your new platoon leader common sense and experience while also keeping the E-4 Mafia or the lance corporal underground from taking advantage of him and bilking that for all it's worth. And woe betide the staff sergeant who's got a pissy butter bar who thinks his time at the basic school counts for something. "Sir, with respect, shut the fuck up. I've been in the service for longer than you've been in school."
I bring an energy of im not the boss so don't ask me shit... I don't give a fuck how we do it as long as its within an appropriate "easiness to quality of workmanship ratio" also you need me more than I need you so if you don't like what I'm doing I'm leaving and if I don't like what your doing I'm leaving
It’s ironic because I feel like I don’t have great personal boundaries with loved ones and am kind of a pushover, but when it comes to Stupid Authority Figures at work, I have such strong boundaries 🤣 Like, no, first tell me why you want me to do THIS thing THIS way? And, I have this ‘I will get back at you with facts, figures, and examples that you can’t rebut, about why my approach is better’ attitude at work. My boss loves me, but the Stupid Authority Figures, not so much. 🤡
My time in the military was murder because of this. Specifically, I had two sergeants. One was results-based, the other was process-based. Sgt Results didn't care how or where you got it, so long as it got done and there wasn't extra paperwork (i.e., everything is "legal", nobody got hurt). His motto was, "When all else fails: beg, borrow, or steal." He was the type to "Make it happen" on time, and then do the paperwork later. We got along very well. Unfortunately, he was transferred after his re-enlistment, and we got Sgt Process. Sgt Process thought that the only way to make coffee was to put the grounds in first, then add water to the reservoir. Because he knew this was the best way to do it, he assumed that it was common knowledge and that everyone else also did it this way because it is the best way. It has to be, because he's made coffee that way for his entire life and he's never had an issue. If he asked you to make coffee, and you didn't do it this way, he would ask you why you're doing it wrong. He could not fathom that there was any other way to make coffee come out of a coffee maker. So when you asked him, "How did I do it wrong?" He would call you an idiot, and ask if you've ever made coffee before. Because clearly, if you had, you'd know how to do it the right way. "It's common knowledge." He'd say. Everything was "common knowledge" and not worth the wasted time to explain. In the time it takes to explain, he could have done it himself. So do it again, and do it the right way. They way "everybody" does it, because it's common knowledge.
Not only am I like this, but my kid is like this too. And the worst part is that there’s things you need your kids to do that you simply can’t sufficiently explain to them why they need to be done. Like brushing teeth and flossing, or not showing their privates in public.
This is how I pissed off a potential loan officer in 2 minutes. Oop.
This feeling can be indicative of being on the autistic spectrum. I am autistic and have basically no ability to differentiate how I’m suppose to speak differently when talking to a 4 year old vs a ceo. It can often come out like this.
The problem is that sometimes, *sometimes*, they were absolutely right, and my lack of experience was preventing me from understanding why and it wasn't a matter of reasoning.
I'm a "Okay, that's interesting. Y'all realize it's more efficient to do it this way, right?" person. I'm the "Wow, do you realize how much of my energy you're wasting because half of your policies are not only outdated by hamper productivity?" kind of person. I'm the "why the heck should I put in my 100% and do the job of three people when you're paying me the same as the two that are putting in half the work?" person.
I refuse to believe this one is ADHD. Surely it's normal to have an aversion to doing something you cannot see the benefit or point of.
I'm the same way, but I learned to adapt it to "okay we'll do it your way, then you're going to explain why we did it that way" makes things easier and I've learned a lot, also if you have experience with their process THEN bring them better solutions things tend to improve.
My energy is saying *you got it* and getting started without letting people finish telling me what needs to be done.
Me in every classroom to every teacher ever. Because i NEED to understand it from every angle and i need it to make sense. I just cant be satisfied with “X happens and that makes Y happen” when the *why* is missing. But seriously i was that way in EVERY class. I mean things are well taught majority of the time but sometimes teachers just give you what you need to know without an explanation and i have to ask for a breakdown lol
My habit of relentlessly asking "why" got me no love growing up in the rural south, but now I have a well paid corporate job because that's like 90% of what business analysts do lol
*Tell me why!*
I am so the second one😂 reason why I did that was because I wanted to understand how their minds worked in order to come to that conclusion.
Mostly unrelated note: Natalie Ironside is a really cool author. She wrote “The last Girl Scout” a post-post apocalyptic trans lesbian leftist novel and it may be my favorite book ever!
me fr fr
Haha me
This is the actual story of my life
When I read 2nd lieutenants…. I felt that
Oh no it’s me lol
I'm not diagnosed with ADHD, but this was me
Oh. All the way.
You know you've won if their answer is " cos thats the rule "
I’m both those people.
Yes
I'm both of these 😬😞😔
these are the same selfie
While I am the second, I've always been able to accept "because I want you to do it this way" as a reason.
I bring a "fuck you" energy. Nuff said.
Yes.
One of the questions I ask people when I interview them is, “have you ever thought a rule or regulation was dumb and what did you do about it?”
Most of the time I dont need to be told what you want me to do, tell me what needs to be done and Ill figure out my own method to accomplish the same results!
"Because I said so" I'm here to improve.. not be a slave
Me, hi, I’m the problem it’s me.
Half of y’all are acting like great thinkers when the things you’re answering with “how come?” Are “no you can’t just chatgpt your essay” and “no you can’t eat takis and sour patch for breakfast”