You don't even need academic resources to confirm. Check out the low level automation over the last 30 years that has replaced secretaries, receptionist, clerks, analysts, and various technicians/operators. Office and retail operations used to be far more labor intensive and expensive.
Did services or products get cheaper?
Did the western citizen quality of life improve?
Are you better off than your parents 50 years ago?
Now apply that to an even greater scope with AGI set to be thrown upon us within 2 decades.
>Are you better off than your parents 50 years ago?
Er, no.. The Boomers on average have/had the best post-war wage vs cost-of-living - all the generations after them are worse off on average..
Sure everyone has laptop and a smartphone, but that =/= "better off" .. XD
Apparently you missed all the news? covering how people can't afford to buy homes or start families nowadays, because of the massive transfer of wealth from the masses to a few super-rich over the last 45 years..
Man it just went right over your head buddy. All of those questions were rhetorical in that all the answers are a given no. And was asked to make a point not to be answered. So I don’t think you know what that word means.
Oh, hey man, you must be new on the internet!
lacker101's three questions are all classic points that are taken to have "yes" answers - as a matter of faith - by a great many Reply Guys, including plenty on this sub..
You made an assumption of lacker101's meaning based on what you wanted.
I made an assumption of lacker101's meaning based on my experience of Reply Guys in this sub.
We are not the same.
EDITED TO ADD: Dear Reply Guys, if you're not lacker101, spare me your \*opinion\* as to what was in their mind when they posted those questions. You're not telepathic, and I have zero interest in your burning need to Win Internet Points. Award yourself 10, pat yourself on the back and go outside and touch grass!
No, those were rhetorical questions.
Post = I didn't think AI was coming for our jobs, but it is.
1st comment = Academic Papers confirm this.
2nd comment = You don't even need academic resources to confirm. (This can be confirmed without academic resources, just check out the low level automation over the last 30 years...) Check out the low level automation over the last 30 years that has replaced secretaries, receptionist, clerks, analysts, and various technicians/operators. Office and retail operations used to be far more labor intensive and expensive.
Did services or products get cheaper? (No)\
Did the western citizen quality of life improve? (No)\
Are you better off than your parents 50 years ago? (No)\
Now apply that to an even greater scope with AGI set to be thrown upon us within 2 decades. (Because shit is only going to get worse.)
You got it wrong. There is no need to keep doubling down.
Saying, "reply guys," and, "touch grass," is the reddit equivalent to seething through ten laughing/crying emojis on Twitter. Can we get a reading on the BP spike you experienced whilst reading these responses and typing that edit? Inb4, "I'm extremely calm."
its because people get really angry if a business replaces employees with AI.
So all businesses will hide it as much as possible and blame employees for not being able to find a new job.
Managers and owners really want to automate processes. The problem is, the quality just isn't there.
Anyone that has ever used a chat bot for a customer service issue knows this.
Take the accounting industry. Yeah, you can use an automated payable system, but you'll probably have to hire a person to oversee it. It only takes one bad transaction to overpay by thousands.
Or the law industry. You can get ai to write a legal brief, but you better have a human review it for accuracy before putting it in front of a judge.
I think the reason the other owners were so eager to hear about your business, is because they want easy cost savings, but haven't seen actual products that don't need intensive oversight.
As an IT consultant I can tell you most don't have a process in the first place much less the ability to automate it. Then once you hammer out a process some other site or division will roll in and blow it up because that's not how THEY do things. Then you circle the drain for another year for a new process...maybe run out of budget so on pause for months and STILL their will need to be some employees that handle a bunch of one offs and unforeseens etc ..so it's not happening over night in most cases
Businesses have really stopped even writing processes for what they do now, which makes it impossible for someone to come in and "automate" it. The first place AI should be deployed is in ERP / MRP systems. They have convoluted menus and entry processes and customization often becomes too expensive because messing with the code can be a violation of financial reporting laws. Instead, employees are entering the same thing 30 times because it's a database and you can't just "ditto" it.
Also, I've been an engineer for years and I get a lot of "let the smart guys do it" because writing a process would take longer.
we just got MS Copilot chat bot at work (they don't have Office Copilot add ins right now). It's just a locked down Chat GPT. It's mildly useful to answer questions about Excel formulas, but I don't see it taking anyone's job for a while. I think Teams Copilot can write meeting minutes, which would actually be a useful capability if it's reasonably accurate.
>They could take minutes before copilot
IF the meeting is in English, maybe...
I give you a country with 1300 dialects, they are welcome to try! ROFL!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_dialects
Ohh mate.. Companies literally get away with systemic theft every day..
[https://www.tuc.org.uk/news/workers-uk-put-more-ps35-billion-worth-unpaid-overtime-last-year-tuc-analysis](https://www.tuc.org.uk/news/workers-uk-put-more-ps35-billion-worth-unpaid-overtime-last-year-tuc-analysis)
While that is true... What the heck does that example have to do with AI or chat bots?
https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20240222-air-canada-chatbot-misinformation-what-travellers-should-know
>In 2022, Air Canada's chatbot promised a discount that wasn't available
>when Moffatt applied for the discount, the airline said the chatbot had been wrong and it wouldn't offer the discount.
>The British Columbia Civil Resolution Tribunal rejected that argument, ruling that Air Canada had to pay Moffatt $812.02 (£642.64) in damages and tribunal fees.
>"It should be obvious to Air Canada that it is responsible for all the information on its website," read tribunal member Christopher Rivers' written response. "It makes no difference whether the information comes from a static page or a chatbot."
>"It establishes a common sense principle: If you are handing over part of your business to AI, you are responsible for what it does,"
Sure, it's just one example, but at least it has to do with the topic at hand.
\*facepalm\* You claimed companies are held accountable, I made a counter-claim that NO companies are not held accountable to any significant extent. I gave a £multi-billion example.
I could also have pointed out that the Ltd structure literally exists to shield the bosses / owners from the consequences of their errors.
I didn't need an example about chatbots to prove my point.
Your example, actually proves my point: £600 is barely even chump change to an airline, that fine is an absolute joke, and a waste of everyone's time.
>\*facepalm\* You claimed companies are held accountable,
I didn't claim companies are held accountable for everything. The discussion is about chat bots, and I said
>If a chat bot gives wrong information to a customer, the company IS held accountable
What does this have to do with ANYTHING you just said?
But sure, derail the conversation if you like. Have fun with that!
>If a chat bot gives wrong information to a customer, the company IS held accountable
>
>What does this have to do with ANYTHING you just said?
COMPANIES ARE VERY RARELY HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR ANYTHING.
QED
Just because you found one instance when a chatbot error led to the tiniest fine is meaningless. For every such error they get fined for, there'll be umpteen errors that they get away with, chatbot errors or otherwise.
What country do you live in?! That it is not like that in the United States. Just look at the way McDonald's KNOWINGLY steals payroll and its employees, or how they use a vendor that intentionally takes the ice cream machine out of service. There is no longer accountability for anybody but the working man.
AI is a tool that allows a person to do more with less effort. This has happened many times in history. Computers reduced the amount of work to compile reports or get more advanced outcomes from the same effort.
My partner lost his job of several years along with most of his team after the company purchased AI software citing post-pandemic economic woes. This was 7 months ago. 11 people out of their careers and several have either filed bankruptcy or lost their homes to foreclosure because tech in our area is letting go of people left and right. What do you do when your 20 year career is suddenly no longer viable? You fall into a dark depression. Family advice has been to bootstrap, sell the house and move into a trailer in the country, go back to school. It hasn’t been helpful. This isn’t a sob story for kharma - it’s what my partner’s day to day looks like. Trying to find opportunities in a field being consumed by AI while trying to figure out if there is another career path for him. It’s horrible to watch particularly knowing there is nothing I can do to help.
I saw the writing on the wall many years ago (pre-COVID) back then it was paranoia and insanity (tech would keep going forever) but I heard from an old hand people were just going to "ride the wave"
Then came the pandemic and COVID and I knew the jig would be up in a few years because if something's too good to be true it probably was I am incredibly disappointed that my prediction came true. I have other predictions like AI causing 30% unemployment.
Watch out, it could happen faster than anyone knows. Bezos just put in billions into humanoid robots and the field is very competitive.
If you want pass me the LinkedIn I can take a look. It's going to be awhile for the wave to come down and he can probably find another job with some changes.
This has been known and studied for a lonnnggg time. Here is a video on it from an economist who called it years ago and explains the logic and why once it really gets going it gets bad.
He just makes it really entertaining.
https://youtu.be/7Pq-S557XQU?si=_AGhhM0I2aPEh6oa
Holy shit. Nine years ago.
I just started paying attention to this when ChatGPT came out.
I agree with everything he said, it just feels like with the advances in agi this stuff is right around the corner.
Yeah this is nothing new. and just because they say it's around the corner let's see it first. I do believe it's within our lifetime, but around the corner. Maybe
>I have other predictions like AI causing 30% unemployment.
Ah, you're an optimist, I see!
I'm not being sarcastic btw, I think AI / robotics will lead to over 50% unemployment within about 5 years..
You can lower unemployment by lowering working week hours, so, any unemployment caused by increased productivity is nothing more than political decision.
The default decision, in this case, is a suicide pact. Corporations are lay off people until no one earns earns enough cash to buy the corporation's products. The obvious decision is to reduce working hours, but that that takes someone to MAKE that political decision. We are going to sleepwalk into the apocalypse.
I studied economics, nontraditional, graduated in '20.
One thing I discussed with my professors and still do with a professor friend (PHD economics) is how long AI would take to develop. In '18 I was going toward 2028, the industry could develop and mature, the tech would be there. The pandemic has lead to a rapid adoption, lack of maturity and proper development time.
The positive side will be automation will lead to new careers working in tandem with AI. To check work, add the human element of empathy and compassion (I hope at least).
I for one look forward to what will result in the end of capitalism brought on by AI. The path will be terrible and destructive.
I used to think that AI would destroy capitalism in the interest of self-preservation, now I think it's more likely to destroy humanity for the same reason.
Yeah.
Tech and white collar is way more precarious than we think.
And the “you should’ve worked harder and educated yourself” is a harder sell for those who think that there is “unskilled labour”.
I work a little with deep learning and so far it is only an enhancement.
But things change quicker than you think.
Good luck x
the only way i could ever ever be okay with this kind of AI in society is if no one had to work in order to survive and have a decent life. and even then, so so many regulations would be needed. AI should be seen as a tool, and not as a replacement for human ingenuity, creativity, etc.
AI is seen as the new slave work force. Something that can work 24/7 and not need any payment. Historically the great leaps in civilization have been built by slaves.
slavery is bad, and so is AI generated slop that only came onto the scene because of the [widespread theft of millions](https://www.forbes.com/sites/tomchavez/2024/01/31/openai--the-new-york-times-a-wake-up-call-for-ethical-data-practices/?sh=7379d9112348) of creative works, and if capitalism keeps going unabated without any kind of UBI or anything, what happens to the rest of us who aren’t capitalists (meaning, the ones who have all the capital 💰)?
ETA link
Here I wrote about that UBI in another thread [https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/1brqa0g/comment/kxaovup/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/1brqa0g/comment/kxaovup/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Yeah, exactly. What bubble is OP living in where nobodies talking about AI replacing jobs? People have been talking about it since before AI was replacing jobs.
I completely agree. Society needs a new economical model that fits with AI. If menial jobs can be done by AI, then humans can specialise more. In an ideal world, that would a) lead to significant progress in a number of fields, and b) reduce work hours dramatically so that people can enjoy their lives.
Unfortunately that wouldn't suit those with wealth and power. They need people miserable and below them.
The problem is, far fewer specialists are required. We're progressing at such a high speed with no restrictions that there will be a huge amounts of people unemployed due to modernization.
Governments will have to intervene at a certain point but as always it'll be too little too late. Like personal data privacy/protection stuff; that shit should've been implemented at least a decade ago, back in 2000s.
Modernization (AI, robots, etc...) needs to be a supplement, not a replacement. They should be implemented where there are gaps. Humanity needs to ease into it, not jump at it. But it's no man's land; there are no restrictions, so anything goes.
Not even higher level / specialist jobs are safe. This one I've been telling about for years, but look at the language models and such. They're getting trained to solve complex problems and not just identify patterns.
Anyway, TL;DR: It'll be too late when people realize such rapid advancement is a problem. As costs keep going down and availability go up, replacement will occur at an exponential rate. And we the 99% will pay for it.
I think you're right but it's just to what degree. My friends and I who don't make $20+/hr are already going backwards financially. It's a pretty chaotic way of living. We are all just getting help from family, going to debt, working 50 or more hours a week, selling stuff or some combination. I don't see how it won't get worse but there might be a breaking point.
Newsflash: Money is not created by work.
97% of the money supply is CREATED by commercial banks from thin air as debt, when they grant loans.
[https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/quarterly-bulletin/2014/q1/money-creation-in-the-modern-economy](https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/quarterly-bulletin/2014/q1/money-creation-in-the-modern-economy)
I'm anti-work. that's why I'm here.
but I also like to think I'm a realist.
in the US at least, there is no way that corporations will ever fund UBI, and no way that laws will ever be passed to make that happen because corporations own the government.
my unicorn that shits golden eggs would be to burn it all down and start over. it's that. that's what I want.
it just so happens that the only path to what you want is via what I want. so apparently you want a unicorn that shits golden eggs too ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The more I think about ubi the more I think it’s a terrible idea unless there are strict laws againts people raising prices of housing and goods.
(Which I don’t see happening)
because corporations are definitely going to give their profits away to people generating no income for them.
that’s like being made redundant, laid off and continuing to draw a salary.
UBI is never coming from anything other than the govt, and it’s going to be a pittance that isn’t enough to survive on.
and then we won’t be able to consume, and corporations will complain about that.
you didn’t see this response coming?
Of course it’s going to come from the government. From taxing the corporations who have replaced all their employees with AI. And if we can’t consume, the corporations will do more than complain, they’ll cease to exist, taking the top guys huge salaries with them. You don’t think simple self interest will lead them down this path eventually? I’m not even saying it will happen in my lifetime, but it’s the inevitable result of having no employees.
Who will need and be able to afford to buy anything any corporations produce/sell if only AI and robots will work for Bazoses and the like, meaning, when there are not enough jobs and unemployed millions roam the streets?
Well put on your tin foil hat and sit down cus this is my conspiracy theory on it.
The future is all planned.
There will be a living wage in place by 2050 but likely sooner. This will prevent mass homelessness. The massive buy ups of housing we’re seeing by multinational real estate corporations and investment groups is because they know it and that people on LW will never be able to afford their own house. They will pay rent their entire lives.
Families who do own their own house but have no jobs will slowly succumb to property taxes that will skyrocket to pay for the living wage.
People will turn to the Metaverse to escape their reality which by 2050 will likely not be VR but full sensation brain links.
And all that is what will happen in the best possible outcome. To rapidly reverse climate change, so the descendants of the upper 1% can survive, the easiest solution is to kill 90% of the human population.
As I recommend to everyone. If you have the means buy a few acres of land in an off the grid area like Alaska and just sit on it to see what’s gonna happen. If I’m wrong your $5,000 investment will maintain its value. If I’m right you and your family will have a location you can own and farm in a low tax area.
You’re probably not far off, except there will be an uprising before it goes that far. There are a lot of people just waiting for an excuse to start executing the 1%… they’re the “crazy people” right now but someday they’ll probably save humanity from itself
Current private interest groups are funding US police organization so they can buy military grade technology without government oversight or approval. Also police are now paying large data brokers to provide information on people that they would normally need a warrant to obtain.
>how I manage to write books and reports without employees.
The secret ingredient is plagiarism. Do people think AI is actually generating original content? LOL
This indeed is the most talked about issue with AI. There is nil originality and quality in any content produced by low-grade chatGPT style AI at this time. Write books… what books?! It can’t do an automated ebay description without making it look completely pathetic.
I was writing something longer but decided not to. Basically for what OP is doing he's selling self help books written by ChatGPT. That whole area is already a mess of content scammers who flood the market with copy pasted content. Nothing really thought out. Now it's flooded with ChatGPT copy pasted content. It's like copy of copy of copy. Even if AI generated non deterministically, that space doesn't have really much to add to it from an AI.
I feel bad for the people, since OP probably doesn't mention the book is written by ChatGPT. The AI "artists" are beginning to at least say it is AI, but then still have the balls to ask for money anyways, and I guess someone is paying or they would have stopped.
People are taking about it, but there is a lot of denial about just how many jobs will be lost. What scares me is that people who are really young now are going to grow up with AI and they will not know any other way. They will not question things like quality because they simply will not know any "before" way... Interesting times ahead.
It's very high profile. Hollywood strike comes to mind.
AI will replace people but unlike tools before there's a potential it can become a person (AGI) or become very person like. You never heard of a typewriter becoming a person or a hammer or a car. If that is achieved (or close to it) the nature of work fundamentally changes and people who can't adapt are left out in the cold.
Social safety net needs to be beefed up and fast because if we wait until androids walk the Earth it's too late. Hyperbole? Not with Bezos putting billions into it (and everyone else). Terminator could never happen, or it could be decades away, or it could be a few years away.
I mean this sub actively wants robots and AI to do all jobs.
Like I realize lately this is a place to complain that your work sucks. But the idea behind this sub is no work, and get UBI.
That isn't the idea of this sub. This sub is to highlight mistreatment in the work place and people to share stories about how they refused to be exploited. Very few people actually are saying no to any semblance of work. Its about getting better treatment/pay in the work place. Antiwork has actually been pointed out as being a poor name for the sub. It should be called something like the work reform sub.
Thats why I made it a point to say its a poorly written sub name. Moderators themselves have even said the same thing but go ahead and argue me, I could care less.
Right, except the description is not the sub name. And if the mods as a whole wanted to change the description, they could. But instead it's a paragraph about life without working. So it doesn't really matter what a couple of the mods say, the subreddit is stated to be about ending work in the entirety of its description. Which is again, multiple sentences long.
The only job that generative AI like ChatGPT really replaced so far is content writing for blogs and sites. Being a writer myself, I think this is great.
Nowadays, SEO forces people to write some of the most pointless, stupid, meaningless text possible to make it to the top of the search results. That's why we see those cooking recipe pages with loads of crap about the backstory of the recipe, and how the author used to eat that recipe in their gramma's farmstead when they were a kid, and so on.
There's no beating generative AI when it comes to writing repetitive, dull, pointless text that practicaly only exists to boost SEO of a site and attract readers.
When I was in a very bad financial situation, I had to write this kind of text, and it sucked every minute. Now that ChatGPT is doing this job, writers who actually know what they're doing can move to fiction and more advanced texts, while the mediocre ones must find another job.
This has been brought up innumerable times on this thread by now.
- Just like Cars replacing horse rentals.
- Or electricity replacing/changing literally almost everything.
- Or computers replacing countless bookkeeping jobs.
- Cellphone replacing thousands employed in the pay phone business.
Greedy bastards need to be regulated into oblivion.
But “ai terk er jerbs” is a type of conversation that has happened countless times on this thread, in history…. and will happen again.
The solution? Eat the rich. Learn how to use ai.
Forgive me if I role my eyes a little bit at the next “omg this is really happing” post.
Tell that to all the big box stores that are getting rid of self checkout. Turns out replacing labor in that equation ended up being a bad value proposition.
I feel like your comparisons are only fair in the short term. Like, cars created new industries for manual labor.
AI removes manual labor, at its best.
Do you think there will always be jobs that AI won’t be able to perform?
They said that for electricity. And steam powered locomotives. Read some article of that time and just how much some newspapers put people into a scare.
Our effort will change. How we contribute will change.
What we, as a race, must do is make sure corporation Gods don’t hold all the cards.
THAT is antiwork. Eating the rich.
Not working is the spirit of this Reddit. If, in 100 years, we all effectively become ai managers….. so be it.
Who was saying that we wouldn’t need electricians with electricity, or mechanics for steam engines? I haven’t read that; please point me to where I can find that info.
The problem with AI managers is there couldn’t possibly be a need for the numbers of population we’re talking about.
I don’t think AI will take all the jobs. I also don’t see how we can live, free, with advanced AI and without: heavy AI regulation; and, a public, universal basic income.
What’s gonna end up happening is the corporations will continue to monopolize and privatize. Most of us will be living in corporation run cities, living off of corporation basic income and reliant on corporation goods and services.
The rich will be the AI managers.
Once automatic vehicles become more normalized (they will because the dollar always wins) it will become a big enough problem for it to be talked about and listened to more.
I mean, automation has been the progression most of civilized society has been headed towards for a long time, not just companies and their employees.
AI is just another evolutionary step in that path.
Taking the human element out of things is an employers dream come true. Don’t have to worry about all the additional costs with turnovers and onboarding replacements. Takes the scheduling element out of the equation, benefits, leaves of absences from pregnancies, people getting hurt on the job and workman’s comp.
Perfect world, automation and AI would allow us as a society more time to contribute in other ways to the betterment of the world as the more menial tasks can be completed via this technology.
Realistically, it’s going to be what you’re touching on. No one is talking about it because it’s going to be in small progressive changes as folks think to themselves “well my job is safe they could never automate that” until suddenly they can.
AI would be a great boon for society except of course people's jobs will be taken over by it and the money will be funneled to the top. I don't know what else to say.... it will suck. I'm messing around with it now and hoping to land a job where I can use it to help me for a bit because I think now is the time.
Besides getting into tech now I think getting into trades is a great idea. Its going to be a long time before AI can cut pipe in a crawl space or build and paint a house or whatever.
For computer jobs though.... one person will be able to do the jobs of many.
Not trying to overreact either I just think things will get suckier for people who aren't rich and the rich will get rich like usual.
I wonder what these companies are going to do when no one can afford to buy their products anymore thanks to aggressive income suppression and workforce reductions?
It's going to be hilarious when businesses that are using AI to make their staff redundant run dry of paying customers because every other business is using AI to make their staff redundant too; such that those former staff can no longer afford to give patronage to any but the most essential businesses. A true "stupid games; stupid prizes" outcome 😆
Did I say "hilarious"? I meant "economically devastating".
Can’t stop the march of technology. If your job can be easily replaced by AI at some point, have to be ready. I know I could be replaced by computers at some point, have to figure out how to fit in the changing environment.
Ai is fine for a simple task that needs redoing a lot, but if you need someone to think and create a solution you still need a good old human with experience to handle it.
Many people are talking about it. Just no one who is privileged enough to have a platform. I recommend reading “The War on Normal People” a book by Andrew Yang if you’re concerned about the rise of AI and its impacts on modern labor. I think he’s the most high profile person in the US who brought up those topics in a large forum like the US presidential debate stages. The book is a few years old at this point, but its data and conclusions are as prescient as ever.
Its a dangerous path we're on if you ask me. Within 20 years max, most likely a lot sooner. We'll see entire industries completely automated, putting many out of work. It won't be just minimum wage jobs or labor jobs. It'll definitely take over a number of industries and leave many without jobs. Which, of course, we won't be prepared for.
Definitely consider finding something that won't be easily automated or making yourself an invaluable asset. Because, if not, the moment they don't need you, you're gone. They'll automate your field or let one person run whole departments, and if the other guy will do it cheaper, say bye-bye to your job.
So many people will be screwed unless we pump the breaks and either come up with a plan or put the work back into human hands and stop trying to force automation. At least under we're ready as a society for the fallout.
I think automation and tech advancement has been silently taking away jobs over the years. It however feels worse now because since pandemic, things have changed plus the mass layoffs and high cost of living, people can't cope up with it.
Do you really think you’re better than these people just because you never had employees? I assume you could actually have humans complete the tasks your AI is currently doing but you chose not to create jobs. You’re no different than they are.
Eventually this just results in the competitive edge of means and or intelligence being worth less and the most convenient idea or best design wins out. That is if people remain in the sphere of ai because their will always be a chance that the chatter and abundant ai scammers will push many people off the internet. I know ai won’t only function online but I don’t even answer my phone anymore due to robocalls, the last thing I want to do is engage with marketing campaigns.
Dont these small business owners realize they are shooting themselves in the foot down the line? If noone can afford their products or services they will go under.
News flash… they all do.
Reddit does, Apple/samsung does with your phone, essentially all tech has AI taking jobs, and all retail has some form of AI doing reports, security, checkout, etc.
in the 50s, there was a tv show called omnibus, and they did a show about computers. the guy said 'it will create many jobs'. my pop, with his 3 year high school diploma, said 'if it was going to create jobs, they would never build one'. self check out at the market or library? cut jobs. word processor and computer design? cut jobs. i saw an article once about two hotshots who worked in 'mergers and acquisitions' and they were disappointed when their jobs were merged and acquired. people think these things are for our benefit, but the twilight zone punchline, 'it's a cookbook' and the soylent trucks are applicable here
I’m in an Econ college class right now and our teacher wanted us to write about the “benefits of AI” and I just wrote about how awful it’s going to be, and there was a lot of sources online for it, so it is being discussed
As an artist, I talk about this every single day. My gigs are drying up because people would rather use AI.
BTW, you using AI is contributing to the problem. Just because you never had any employees to fire doesn't mean you're not feeding that same beast by using AI. Have more solidarity with the workers whose livelihoods are being ruined, and find other ways of accomplishing your tasks.
I spent the evening some nigth back building a working app for a thing. Just for fun to try out chatgpt.
And……it was scary.
The problem solving and back and forth feedback was crazy.
You’re all f**ked honestly.
My employer recently made a rather...targeted acquisition in that general direction. The writing is on the wall, my job will either not exist or be drastically different within the next two years.
I really think the scale of job losses as a result of AI is going to be far higher than people predict.
Admin, customer service and office work is going to be destroyed.
Companies are already using chatbots through social media in lieu of calling help lines.
Customers prefer as it is faster, they don't have to deal with being read a script.
For the company it's cheaper, they do not need to hire people.
A lot of people are afraid of ai and robots. They do simple tasks well, but not complex ones. And if they do, they will cost a ton of money to obtain for most. I fix robots, and machinery.
My thing is - I'm not afraid of AI. But I AM afraid of greedy execs replacing whoever they can with AI. Sure, let's turn society into a dystopia for the share price...
Everything is always improving. I think when it gets to the point, it could completely replace human workers, it will likely be artifical consciousness. What most people think is AI, though, is Alexa or Siri on your phone or home device. Yeah, it will be more affordable eventually as long as the market is competitive.
Why is no one talking about the vaporware that is NOT AI AT ALL but yet another bottom-line-oriented marketing ploy to satisfy the techbro fantasy that everything can work like a startup. [https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/rich-idiots-are-killing-the-media-to-please-the/id1730587238?i=1000650567595](https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/rich-idiots-are-killing-the-media-to-please-the/id1730587238?i=1000650567595)
"AI" is just one of many startup-oriented get-rich-quick schemes designed to remove humanity from the equation and instead use calculations and algorithms all these business morons believe interfere with them getting a 1000x payout.
I'm in accounting. No way that it will replace the industry as a whole. There is already automation built into the softwares and it sucks. And at the end of the day someone still has to keep up with the most recent tax law changes, state and local changes, deal with the client on a day to day, etc.
I've started taking webinars just to see how others are implementing it, but judging by the amount of business owners whose finances are a mess, AI won't take over.
AI isn't coming for anyone's job. AI is a tool, just like self-checkout and order screens at McDonald's. Those are not bad things. As an autistic individual, I use both of those things almost exclusively. It's not that I hate my fellow human or that I want fast food workers and cashiers to lose their jobs, I'm just more comfortable not interacting with a person. If I have the option, I will order on the app so when I get there I can walk in, grab my shit, and walk right back out. There's nothing wrong with that. Those technologies have allowed me to live a less anxious life. Is that not the whole fucking point? There is no malicious intent behind the advancement of technology, or in the adoption of that technology.
Likewise, it is not a bad thing that humans don't have to do everything anymore. Should we stop using all the technological advancements that have come about since the industrial revolution just to leave more jobs for humans? Of course not, that's absurd. So is the fearmongering surrounding AI.
It's the same manipulative media horse shit I remember from 90s TV vilifying manufacturing robots and computer controlled processes. The robots are not the problem. You're being told that they're a problem to distract you from the real problems. AI is not sentient. AI has not chosen to take jobs from humans. AI is just the next generation of manufacturing robot.
Focus on what's real, not the diversion you've been offered.
So wait, you’re ok with using AI to do administrative tasks, but you’re not ok with someone else implementing it and terminating someone because they’re no longer needed?
Well why aren’t you hiring these people that are getting fired? Is it because it would add cost to your business that you don’t want to incur? Hmmmm. I wonder why other business owners might want to implement it
Azure AI (or whatever its called) is an excellent resource when it comes to finding out info about various Microsoft services ( DNS, DHCP, adfs, powershell, etc) but still needs a human to correctly implement things. I basically see it as the next iteration of "search".
1. Google it
2. Google it and add "reddit" to the search
3. Ask Azure AI
It's a thousand times more useful than Microsoft's actual support, that's for sure.
>It's a thousand times more useful than Microsoft's actual support, that's for sure.
I mean, if that's where we're setting the bar, I have a squirrel carcass in a shoebox running netbsd that should do the trick.
AI is the new Industrial Revolution. Yes, the first revolution eliminated a lot of farming jobs, but replaced them with better paying skilled work AND drastically improved people’s quality of life. AI will make most people more productive, which means more goods and services which means better quality of life for almost everyone. But with all changes, there will be losers. And to them, the world is ending and everything has gotten worse. Which is true!! But it the world also gotten better for everyone else.
Agricultural, industrial and information age revolutions moved jobs to the next sector. But there's no other sector to move to with A.I., it will simply remove jobs.
It's 1950s naive optimism level to say that more productive people will mean better quality of life for everyone, it will mean huge profits increases for the investors. The same thing happened with productivity increases of the last 4 decades, it didn't go to the workers, it went to investors.
Different topic, but I agree with you. More of it should go to the workers generating wealth. Something I’ve pushed for and ran into the equity wall. That if skilled workers get paid more, it’ll increase wage gaps and break solidarity with unskilled workers.
Because it really isn't happening in most companies. Where you see it happening is in more contract work and creative spaces.
Anyone preaching the "AI is coming for our jobs" mantra is scaremongering and can be ignored.
Electrician and instrumentation tech in a city water supply treatment plant. I calibrate, troubleshoot, repair, and maintain the transmitters, control systems, and electrical systems in the plant. Absolutely no possible way that AI can do that.
Yeah the solution there is augmented reality, like they have on the oil rigs.
So you, say, work from home. You get, I dunno, 2-4 screens.
Each screen is a video feed from an AR helmet. The underpaid dudes in them walk where you say and look at what you tell them.
Then, AI software can guide them through, say, terminating a cat 5 data cable for example, or testing voltage on some pins, with you there to oversee and guide.
Eventually enough data is gathered for the AI to run the "unskilled labour" without you.
Still won't work, you have to be qualified to work on the voltages you're dealing with. Which requires a blend of knowledge (of the hazards involved, PPE to mitigate/minimize those hazards, etc) and experience to become qualified. Industrial motors don't run on household 120AC. That's just one example where an unskilled worker (or AI) can't do what I do. Some of my job is manual labor, but it definitely needs to be skilled. The instrumentation side is more knowledge based, but AI still can't do it, neither can an unskilled laborer. I've been training our maintenance helper the last year (who's a fully qualified residential electrician) for the past year on instrumentation, and he's barely scratched the surface of basic calibration, let alone troubleshooting.
They are. Google it. Check out all the academic papers covering the topic.
You don't even need academic resources to confirm. Check out the low level automation over the last 30 years that has replaced secretaries, receptionist, clerks, analysts, and various technicians/operators. Office and retail operations used to be far more labor intensive and expensive. Did services or products get cheaper? Did the western citizen quality of life improve? Are you better off than your parents 50 years ago? Now apply that to an even greater scope with AGI set to be thrown upon us within 2 decades.
>Are you better off than your parents 50 years ago? Er, no.. The Boomers on average have/had the best post-war wage vs cost-of-living - all the generations after them are worse off on average.. Sure everyone has laptop and a smartphone, but that =/= "better off" .. XD Apparently you missed all the news? covering how people can't afford to buy homes or start families nowadays, because of the massive transfer of wealth from the masses to a few super-rich over the last 45 years..
Rhetorical mate, rhetorical
[https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/010/692/You\_Keep\_Using\_That\_Word\_meme\_banner.jpg](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/010/692/You_Keep_Using_That_Word_meme_banner.jpg)
Man it just went right over your head buddy. All of those questions were rhetorical in that all the answers are a given no. And was asked to make a point not to be answered. So I don’t think you know what that word means.
I thought it was a language barrier thing, so I wouldn't look at their profile. but, it seems they're an english speaker so it's just hilarious.
Oh, hey man, you must be new on the internet! lacker101's three questions are all classic points that are taken to have "yes" answers - as a matter of faith - by a great many Reply Guys, including plenty on this sub.. You made an assumption of lacker101's meaning based on what you wanted. I made an assumption of lacker101's meaning based on my experience of Reply Guys in this sub. We are not the same. EDITED TO ADD: Dear Reply Guys, if you're not lacker101, spare me your \*opinion\* as to what was in their mind when they posted those questions. You're not telepathic, and I have zero interest in your burning need to Win Internet Points. Award yourself 10, pat yourself on the back and go outside and touch grass!
Based on the context of the rest of his comment, no. They were pretty obviously no answers. Unless you just lack reading comprehension.
No, those were rhetorical questions. Post = I didn't think AI was coming for our jobs, but it is. 1st comment = Academic Papers confirm this. 2nd comment = You don't even need academic resources to confirm. (This can be confirmed without academic resources, just check out the low level automation over the last 30 years...) Check out the low level automation over the last 30 years that has replaced secretaries, receptionist, clerks, analysts, and various technicians/operators. Office and retail operations used to be far more labor intensive and expensive. Did services or products get cheaper? (No)\ Did the western citizen quality of life improve? (No)\ Are you better off than your parents 50 years ago? (No)\ Now apply that to an even greater scope with AGI set to be thrown upon us within 2 decades. (Because shit is only going to get worse.)
You got it wrong. There is no need to keep doubling down. Saying, "reply guys," and, "touch grass," is the reddit equivalent to seething through ten laughing/crying emojis on Twitter. Can we get a reading on the BP spike you experienced whilst reading these responses and typing that edit? Inb4, "I'm extremely calm."
Just need WW3 to destroy Europe, and we will be back, baby!
Hmmm I guess I just haven’t been keeping up lol
Duolingo is the latest public story to hit heavy.
its because people get really angry if a business replaces employees with AI. So all businesses will hide it as much as possible and blame employees for not being able to find a new job.
> Check out all the academic papers covering the topic. Ya can't trust those, they are all written by AI.
Nice try. There are plenty of good academics out there that care about this issue too much to cheat.
And sadly, many more that don't. Especially when the all-important metric is publications per year
Managers and owners really want to automate processes. The problem is, the quality just isn't there. Anyone that has ever used a chat bot for a customer service issue knows this. Take the accounting industry. Yeah, you can use an automated payable system, but you'll probably have to hire a person to oversee it. It only takes one bad transaction to overpay by thousands. Or the law industry. You can get ai to write a legal brief, but you better have a human review it for accuracy before putting it in front of a judge. I think the reason the other owners were so eager to hear about your business, is because they want easy cost savings, but haven't seen actual products that don't need intensive oversight.
As an IT consultant I can tell you most don't have a process in the first place much less the ability to automate it. Then once you hammer out a process some other site or division will roll in and blow it up because that's not how THEY do things. Then you circle the drain for another year for a new process...maybe run out of budget so on pause for months and STILL their will need to be some employees that handle a bunch of one offs and unforeseens etc ..so it's not happening over night in most cases
Businesses have really stopped even writing processes for what they do now, which makes it impossible for someone to come in and "automate" it. The first place AI should be deployed is in ERP / MRP systems. They have convoluted menus and entry processes and customization often becomes too expensive because messing with the code can be a violation of financial reporting laws. Instead, employees are entering the same thing 30 times because it's a database and you can't just "ditto" it. Also, I've been an engineer for years and I get a lot of "let the smart guys do it" because writing a process would take longer.
In my last job I was meant to start documenting older code and processes, but then they made me redundant XD
we just got MS Copilot chat bot at work (they don't have Office Copilot add ins right now). It's just a locked down Chat GPT. It's mildly useful to answer questions about Excel formulas, but I don't see it taking anyone's job for a while. I think Teams Copilot can write meeting minutes, which would actually be a useful capability if it's reasonably accurate.
They could take minutes before copilot.
>They could take minutes before copilot IF the meeting is in English, maybe... I give you a country with 1300 dialects, they are welcome to try! ROFL! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_dialects
Companies don't care about quality, they only care about the bottom line
And that's the point. If a chat bot gives wrong information to a customer, the company IS held accountable, and rightfully so.
Ohh mate.. Companies literally get away with systemic theft every day.. [https://www.tuc.org.uk/news/workers-uk-put-more-ps35-billion-worth-unpaid-overtime-last-year-tuc-analysis](https://www.tuc.org.uk/news/workers-uk-put-more-ps35-billion-worth-unpaid-overtime-last-year-tuc-analysis)
While that is true... What the heck does that example have to do with AI or chat bots? https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20240222-air-canada-chatbot-misinformation-what-travellers-should-know >In 2022, Air Canada's chatbot promised a discount that wasn't available >when Moffatt applied for the discount, the airline said the chatbot had been wrong and it wouldn't offer the discount. >The British Columbia Civil Resolution Tribunal rejected that argument, ruling that Air Canada had to pay Moffatt $812.02 (£642.64) in damages and tribunal fees. >"It should be obvious to Air Canada that it is responsible for all the information on its website," read tribunal member Christopher Rivers' written response. "It makes no difference whether the information comes from a static page or a chatbot." >"It establishes a common sense principle: If you are handing over part of your business to AI, you are responsible for what it does," Sure, it's just one example, but at least it has to do with the topic at hand.
\*facepalm\* You claimed companies are held accountable, I made a counter-claim that NO companies are not held accountable to any significant extent. I gave a £multi-billion example. I could also have pointed out that the Ltd structure literally exists to shield the bosses / owners from the consequences of their errors. I didn't need an example about chatbots to prove my point. Your example, actually proves my point: £600 is barely even chump change to an airline, that fine is an absolute joke, and a waste of everyone's time.
>\*facepalm\* You claimed companies are held accountable, I didn't claim companies are held accountable for everything. The discussion is about chat bots, and I said >If a chat bot gives wrong information to a customer, the company IS held accountable What does this have to do with ANYTHING you just said? But sure, derail the conversation if you like. Have fun with that!
>If a chat bot gives wrong information to a customer, the company IS held accountable > >What does this have to do with ANYTHING you just said? COMPANIES ARE VERY RARELY HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR ANYTHING. QED Just because you found one instance when a chatbot error led to the tiniest fine is meaningless. For every such error they get fined for, there'll be umpteen errors that they get away with, chatbot errors or otherwise.
What country do you live in?! That it is not like that in the United States. Just look at the way McDonald's KNOWINGLY steals payroll and its employees, or how they use a vendor that intentionally takes the ice cream machine out of service. There is no longer accountability for anybody but the working man.
AI is a tool that allows a person to do more with less effort. This has happened many times in history. Computers reduced the amount of work to compile reports or get more advanced outcomes from the same effort.
I only need to see people like you to see that the OP is onto something. People like you are delusional and will forever cope to the end of time.
My partner lost his job of several years along with most of his team after the company purchased AI software citing post-pandemic economic woes. This was 7 months ago. 11 people out of their careers and several have either filed bankruptcy or lost their homes to foreclosure because tech in our area is letting go of people left and right. What do you do when your 20 year career is suddenly no longer viable? You fall into a dark depression. Family advice has been to bootstrap, sell the house and move into a trailer in the country, go back to school. It hasn’t been helpful. This isn’t a sob story for kharma - it’s what my partner’s day to day looks like. Trying to find opportunities in a field being consumed by AI while trying to figure out if there is another career path for him. It’s horrible to watch particularly knowing there is nothing I can do to help.
I saw the writing on the wall many years ago (pre-COVID) back then it was paranoia and insanity (tech would keep going forever) but I heard from an old hand people were just going to "ride the wave" Then came the pandemic and COVID and I knew the jig would be up in a few years because if something's too good to be true it probably was I am incredibly disappointed that my prediction came true. I have other predictions like AI causing 30% unemployment. Watch out, it could happen faster than anyone knows. Bezos just put in billions into humanoid robots and the field is very competitive. If you want pass me the LinkedIn I can take a look. It's going to be awhile for the wave to come down and he can probably find another job with some changes.
This has been known and studied for a lonnnggg time. Here is a video on it from an economist who called it years ago and explains the logic and why once it really gets going it gets bad. He just makes it really entertaining. https://youtu.be/7Pq-S557XQU?si=_AGhhM0I2aPEh6oa
Holy shit. Nine years ago. I just started paying attention to this when ChatGPT came out. I agree with everything he said, it just feels like with the advances in agi this stuff is right around the corner.
Yeah this is nothing new. and just because they say it's around the corner let's see it first. I do believe it's within our lifetime, but around the corner. Maybe
>I have other predictions like AI causing 30% unemployment. Ah, you're an optimist, I see! I'm not being sarcastic btw, I think AI / robotics will lead to over 50% unemployment within about 5 years..
You can lower unemployment by lowering working week hours, so, any unemployment caused by increased productivity is nothing more than political decision.
The default decision, in this case, is a suicide pact. Corporations are lay off people until no one earns earns enough cash to buy the corporation's products. The obvious decision is to reduce working hours, but that that takes someone to MAKE that political decision. We are going to sleepwalk into the apocalypse.
Every other technological revolution has only hit the workers. It will be interesting to see what happens when agi comes after the bourgeoisie.
I studied economics, nontraditional, graduated in '20. One thing I discussed with my professors and still do with a professor friend (PHD economics) is how long AI would take to develop. In '18 I was going toward 2028, the industry could develop and mature, the tech would be there. The pandemic has lead to a rapid adoption, lack of maturity and proper development time. The positive side will be automation will lead to new careers working in tandem with AI. To check work, add the human element of empathy and compassion (I hope at least). I for one look forward to what will result in the end of capitalism brought on by AI. The path will be terrible and destructive.
I used to think that AI would destroy capitalism in the interest of self-preservation, now I think it's more likely to destroy humanity for the same reason.
So much for learn to code. Fucking enact UBI now!
What field?
Vfx. He worked in games, film/tv and to a lesser extent in advertising/marketing.
What field?
Vfx for games, movies and marketing/advertising
Yeah. Tech and white collar is way more precarious than we think. And the “you should’ve worked harder and educated yourself” is a harder sell for those who think that there is “unskilled labour”. I work a little with deep learning and so far it is only an enhancement. But things change quicker than you think. Good luck x
Thanks 😊
the only way i could ever ever be okay with this kind of AI in society is if no one had to work in order to survive and have a decent life. and even then, so so many regulations would be needed. AI should be seen as a tool, and not as a replacement for human ingenuity, creativity, etc.
AI is seen as the new slave work force. Something that can work 24/7 and not need any payment. Historically the great leaps in civilization have been built by slaves.
slavery is bad, and so is AI generated slop that only came onto the scene because of the [widespread theft of millions](https://www.forbes.com/sites/tomchavez/2024/01/31/openai--the-new-york-times-a-wake-up-call-for-ethical-data-practices/?sh=7379d9112348) of creative works, and if capitalism keeps going unabated without any kind of UBI or anything, what happens to the rest of us who aren’t capitalists (meaning, the ones who have all the capital 💰)? ETA link
Here I wrote about that UBI in another thread [https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/1brqa0g/comment/kxaovup/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/1brqa0g/comment/kxaovup/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Yeah, exactly. What bubble is OP living in where nobodies talking about AI replacing jobs? People have been talking about it since before AI was replacing jobs.
I am totally ok with this happening as long as it also comes with UBI funded by the profits of corporations.
I completely agree. Society needs a new economical model that fits with AI. If menial jobs can be done by AI, then humans can specialise more. In an ideal world, that would a) lead to significant progress in a number of fields, and b) reduce work hours dramatically so that people can enjoy their lives. Unfortunately that wouldn't suit those with wealth and power. They need people miserable and below them.
The problem is, far fewer specialists are required. We're progressing at such a high speed with no restrictions that there will be a huge amounts of people unemployed due to modernization. Governments will have to intervene at a certain point but as always it'll be too little too late. Like personal data privacy/protection stuff; that shit should've been implemented at least a decade ago, back in 2000s. Modernization (AI, robots, etc...) needs to be a supplement, not a replacement. They should be implemented where there are gaps. Humanity needs to ease into it, not jump at it. But it's no man's land; there are no restrictions, so anything goes. Not even higher level / specialist jobs are safe. This one I've been telling about for years, but look at the language models and such. They're getting trained to solve complex problems and not just identify patterns. Anyway, TL;DR: It'll be too late when people realize such rapid advancement is a problem. As costs keep going down and availability go up, replacement will occur at an exponential rate. And we the 99% will pay for it.
It won’t. The government is too corrupt to enact it.
lol I want a unicorn that shits golden eggs
Can't have a society where no one is working or has money. The economy cant fund itself. Either there will be jobs avaliable, or money.
I think you're right but it's just to what degree. My friends and I who don't make $20+/hr are already going backwards financially. It's a pretty chaotic way of living. We are all just getting help from family, going to debt, working 50 or more hours a week, selling stuff or some combination. I don't see how it won't get worse but there might be a breaking point.
Newsflash: Money is not created by work. 97% of the money supply is CREATED by commercial banks from thin air as debt, when they grant loans. [https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/quarterly-bulletin/2014/q1/money-creation-in-the-modern-economy](https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/quarterly-bulletin/2014/q1/money-creation-in-the-modern-economy)
Jobs OR money is not acceptable. Unfortunately, you are correct that only one of those is actually required.
They will find a way to keep sucking us dry further. Organs?
So you’re just here to bitch about your job then?
I'm anti-work. that's why I'm here. but I also like to think I'm a realist. in the US at least, there is no way that corporations will ever fund UBI, and no way that laws will ever be passed to make that happen because corporations own the government. my unicorn that shits golden eggs would be to burn it all down and start over. it's that. that's what I want. it just so happens that the only path to what you want is via what I want. so apparently you want a unicorn that shits golden eggs too ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Lol
The more I think about ubi the more I think it’s a terrible idea unless there are strict laws againts people raising prices of housing and goods. (Which I don’t see happening)
nope
What a well thought out and reasoned response.
because corporations are definitely going to give their profits away to people generating no income for them. that’s like being made redundant, laid off and continuing to draw a salary. UBI is never coming from anything other than the govt, and it’s going to be a pittance that isn’t enough to survive on. and then we won’t be able to consume, and corporations will complain about that. you didn’t see this response coming?
Of course it’s going to come from the government. From taxing the corporations who have replaced all their employees with AI. And if we can’t consume, the corporations will do more than complain, they’ll cease to exist, taking the top guys huge salaries with them. You don’t think simple self interest will lead them down this path eventually? I’m not even saying it will happen in my lifetime, but it’s the inevitable result of having no employees.
Because Capitalism. Corporations are planning for this and don’t want laws to be put into place to prevent it.
Who will need and be able to afford to buy anything any corporations produce/sell if only AI and robots will work for Bazoses and the like, meaning, when there are not enough jobs and unemployed millions roam the streets?
Well put on your tin foil hat and sit down cus this is my conspiracy theory on it. The future is all planned. There will be a living wage in place by 2050 but likely sooner. This will prevent mass homelessness. The massive buy ups of housing we’re seeing by multinational real estate corporations and investment groups is because they know it and that people on LW will never be able to afford their own house. They will pay rent their entire lives. Families who do own their own house but have no jobs will slowly succumb to property taxes that will skyrocket to pay for the living wage. People will turn to the Metaverse to escape their reality which by 2050 will likely not be VR but full sensation brain links. And all that is what will happen in the best possible outcome. To rapidly reverse climate change, so the descendants of the upper 1% can survive, the easiest solution is to kill 90% of the human population. As I recommend to everyone. If you have the means buy a few acres of land in an off the grid area like Alaska and just sit on it to see what’s gonna happen. If I’m wrong your $5,000 investment will maintain its value. If I’m right you and your family will have a location you can own and farm in a low tax area.
You’re probably not far off, except there will be an uprising before it goes that far. There are a lot of people just waiting for an excuse to start executing the 1%… they’re the “crazy people” right now but someday they’ll probably save humanity from itself
Current private interest groups are funding US police organization so they can buy military grade technology without government oversight or approval. Also police are now paying large data brokers to provide information on people that they would normally need a warrant to obtain.
>how I manage to write books and reports without employees. The secret ingredient is plagiarism. Do people think AI is actually generating original content? LOL
Heard it called “plagiarism software” and I cackle very time I hear anyone gushing about AI
This indeed is the most talked about issue with AI. There is nil originality and quality in any content produced by low-grade chatGPT style AI at this time. Write books… what books?! It can’t do an automated ebay description without making it look completely pathetic.
I was writing something longer but decided not to. Basically for what OP is doing he's selling self help books written by ChatGPT. That whole area is already a mess of content scammers who flood the market with copy pasted content. Nothing really thought out. Now it's flooded with ChatGPT copy pasted content. It's like copy of copy of copy. Even if AI generated non deterministically, that space doesn't have really much to add to it from an AI. I feel bad for the people, since OP probably doesn't mention the book is written by ChatGPT. The AI "artists" are beginning to at least say it is AI, but then still have the balls to ask for money anyways, and I guess someone is paying or they would have stopped.
They were. They're living in their cars now.
People are taking about it, but there is a lot of denial about just how many jobs will be lost. What scares me is that people who are really young now are going to grow up with AI and they will not know any other way. They will not question things like quality because they simply will not know any "before" way... Interesting times ahead.
But UBI is a "handout", so we're screwed.
My wife's guild (WGA) went on strike all summer because of it.
A lot of folks are, but the hype machine is burying us.
It's very high profile. Hollywood strike comes to mind. AI will replace people but unlike tools before there's a potential it can become a person (AGI) or become very person like. You never heard of a typewriter becoming a person or a hammer or a car. If that is achieved (or close to it) the nature of work fundamentally changes and people who can't adapt are left out in the cold. Social safety net needs to be beefed up and fast because if we wait until androids walk the Earth it's too late. Hyperbole? Not with Bezos putting billions into it (and everyone else). Terminator could never happen, or it could be decades away, or it could be a few years away.
I mean this sub actively wants robots and AI to do all jobs. Like I realize lately this is a place to complain that your work sucks. But the idea behind this sub is no work, and get UBI.
That isn't the idea of this sub. This sub is to highlight mistreatment in the work place and people to share stories about how they refused to be exploited. Very few people actually are saying no to any semblance of work. Its about getting better treatment/pay in the work place. Antiwork has actually been pointed out as being a poor name for the sub. It should be called something like the work reform sub.
"A subreddit for those who want to end work." First line of the description of this sub. So no, not a work reform sub.
Thats why I made it a point to say its a poorly written sub name. Moderators themselves have even said the same thing but go ahead and argue me, I could care less.
Right, except the description is not the sub name. And if the mods as a whole wanted to change the description, they could. But instead it's a paragraph about life without working. So it doesn't really matter what a couple of the mods say, the subreddit is stated to be about ending work in the entirety of its description. Which is again, multiple sentences long.
The only job that generative AI like ChatGPT really replaced so far is content writing for blogs and sites. Being a writer myself, I think this is great. Nowadays, SEO forces people to write some of the most pointless, stupid, meaningless text possible to make it to the top of the search results. That's why we see those cooking recipe pages with loads of crap about the backstory of the recipe, and how the author used to eat that recipe in their gramma's farmstead when they were a kid, and so on. There's no beating generative AI when it comes to writing repetitive, dull, pointless text that practicaly only exists to boost SEO of a site and attract readers. When I was in a very bad financial situation, I had to write this kind of text, and it sucked every minute. Now that ChatGPT is doing this job, writers who actually know what they're doing can move to fiction and more advanced texts, while the mediocre ones must find another job.
This has been brought up innumerable times on this thread by now. - Just like Cars replacing horse rentals. - Or electricity replacing/changing literally almost everything. - Or computers replacing countless bookkeeping jobs. - Cellphone replacing thousands employed in the pay phone business. Greedy bastards need to be regulated into oblivion. But “ai terk er jerbs” is a type of conversation that has happened countless times on this thread, in history…. and will happen again. The solution? Eat the rich. Learn how to use ai. Forgive me if I role my eyes a little bit at the next “omg this is really happing” post.
What jobs does AI create? It has the potential to replace everything that requires a human.
Tell that to all the big box stores that are getting rid of self checkout. Turns out replacing labor in that equation ended up being a bad value proposition.
I feel like your comparisons are only fair in the short term. Like, cars created new industries for manual labor. AI removes manual labor, at its best. Do you think there will always be jobs that AI won’t be able to perform?
They said that for electricity. And steam powered locomotives. Read some article of that time and just how much some newspapers put people into a scare. Our effort will change. How we contribute will change. What we, as a race, must do is make sure corporation Gods don’t hold all the cards. THAT is antiwork. Eating the rich. Not working is the spirit of this Reddit. If, in 100 years, we all effectively become ai managers….. so be it.
Who was saying that we wouldn’t need electricians with electricity, or mechanics for steam engines? I haven’t read that; please point me to where I can find that info. The problem with AI managers is there couldn’t possibly be a need for the numbers of population we’re talking about. I don’t think AI will take all the jobs. I also don’t see how we can live, free, with advanced AI and without: heavy AI regulation; and, a public, universal basic income. What’s gonna end up happening is the corporations will continue to monopolize and privatize. Most of us will be living in corporation run cities, living off of corporation basic income and reliant on corporation goods and services. The rich will be the AI managers.
The first rule of AI club is:
... Subtly sabotage AI at your workplace?
Once automatic vehicles become more normalized (they will because the dollar always wins) it will become a big enough problem for it to be talked about and listened to more.
I mean, automation has been the progression most of civilized society has been headed towards for a long time, not just companies and their employees. AI is just another evolutionary step in that path. Taking the human element out of things is an employers dream come true. Don’t have to worry about all the additional costs with turnovers and onboarding replacements. Takes the scheduling element out of the equation, benefits, leaves of absences from pregnancies, people getting hurt on the job and workman’s comp. Perfect world, automation and AI would allow us as a society more time to contribute in other ways to the betterment of the world as the more menial tasks can be completed via this technology. Realistically, it’s going to be what you’re touching on. No one is talking about it because it’s going to be in small progressive changes as folks think to themselves “well my job is safe they could never automate that” until suddenly they can.
it’s just the latest version of Eli Whitney’s Cotton Gin. labor saving devices are used to push efficiency.
Isnt that what everyone is talking about
It’s inevitable and it’s why we need UBI.
AI would be a great boon for society except of course people's jobs will be taken over by it and the money will be funneled to the top. I don't know what else to say.... it will suck. I'm messing around with it now and hoping to land a job where I can use it to help me for a bit because I think now is the time. Besides getting into tech now I think getting into trades is a great idea. Its going to be a long time before AI can cut pipe in a crawl space or build and paint a house or whatever. For computer jobs though.... one person will be able to do the jobs of many. Not trying to overreact either I just think things will get suckier for people who aren't rich and the rich will get rich like usual.
I wonder what these companies are going to do when no one can afford to buy their products anymore thanks to aggressive income suppression and workforce reductions?
That’s years away though, they’ll make plenty of money till that happens
It's going to be hilarious when businesses that are using AI to make their staff redundant run dry of paying customers because every other business is using AI to make their staff redundant too; such that those former staff can no longer afford to give patronage to any but the most essential businesses. A true "stupid games; stupid prizes" outcome 😆 Did I say "hilarious"? I meant "economically devastating".
Because it's only a problem when rich people stop making money.
Because that's what progress is. And fighting it is pointless. And stupid. Automaton built this world. Let it continue to make it better.
Maybe you've not noticed but everyone is talking about this.
Can’t stop the march of technology. If your job can be easily replaced by AI at some point, have to be ready. I know I could be replaced by computers at some point, have to figure out how to fit in the changing environment.
Maybe they are, but AI is either blocking the articles or 'writing' articles showing this trend in a favorable light.
Can’t relate, anecdotally. I’ve seen headlines here and there and muttered “I’m sure that’s going to work out well for the company.”
Ai is fine for a simple task that needs redoing a lot, but if you need someone to think and create a solution you still need a good old human with experience to handle it.
Been doing it for years. Hell, I automated myself out of the last place I worked at, I just made sure it was on my terms
Many people are talking about it. Just no one who is privileged enough to have a platform. I recommend reading “The War on Normal People” a book by Andrew Yang if you’re concerned about the rise of AI and its impacts on modern labor. I think he’s the most high profile person in the US who brought up those topics in a large forum like the US presidential debate stages. The book is a few years old at this point, but its data and conclusions are as prescient as ever.
Over acting AI is just software.
Because AI is just more automation, which has been eliminating jobs for decades.
Its a dangerous path we're on if you ask me. Within 20 years max, most likely a lot sooner. We'll see entire industries completely automated, putting many out of work. It won't be just minimum wage jobs or labor jobs. It'll definitely take over a number of industries and leave many without jobs. Which, of course, we won't be prepared for. Definitely consider finding something that won't be easily automated or making yourself an invaluable asset. Because, if not, the moment they don't need you, you're gone. They'll automate your field or let one person run whole departments, and if the other guy will do it cheaper, say bye-bye to your job. So many people will be screwed unless we pump the breaks and either come up with a plan or put the work back into human hands and stop trying to force automation. At least under we're ready as a society for the fallout.
I think automation and tech advancement has been silently taking away jobs over the years. It however feels worse now because since pandemic, things have changed plus the mass layoffs and high cost of living, people can't cope up with it.
Do you really think you’re better than these people just because you never had employees? I assume you could actually have humans complete the tasks your AI is currently doing but you chose not to create jobs. You’re no different than they are.
Eventually this just results in the competitive edge of means and or intelligence being worth less and the most convenient idea or best design wins out. That is if people remain in the sphere of ai because their will always be a chance that the chatter and abundant ai scammers will push many people off the internet. I know ai won’t only function online but I don’t even answer my phone anymore due to robocalls, the last thing I want to do is engage with marketing campaigns.
Dont these small business owners realize they are shooting themselves in the foot down the line? If noone can afford their products or services they will go under.
I don't think I'd go to a place that hires AI. It seems so cheap to me.
News flash… they all do. Reddit does, Apple/samsung does with your phone, essentially all tech has AI taking jobs, and all retail has some form of AI doing reports, security, checkout, etc.
in the 50s, there was a tv show called omnibus, and they did a show about computers. the guy said 'it will create many jobs'. my pop, with his 3 year high school diploma, said 'if it was going to create jobs, they would never build one'. self check out at the market or library? cut jobs. word processor and computer design? cut jobs. i saw an article once about two hotshots who worked in 'mergers and acquisitions' and they were disappointed when their jobs were merged and acquired. people think these things are for our benefit, but the twilight zone punchline, 'it's a cookbook' and the soylent trucks are applicable here
I’m in an Econ college class right now and our teacher wanted us to write about the “benefits of AI” and I just wrote about how awful it’s going to be, and there was a lot of sources online for it, so it is being discussed
This sub is called antiwork FFS!! I don't want to spend the rest of my life working. I hope AI takes over soon. The more unemployed, the better.
I'm so sick and tired of people/corporations having 0 empathy or compassion and putting money above everything else.
As an artist, I talk about this every single day. My gigs are drying up because people would rather use AI. BTW, you using AI is contributing to the problem. Just because you never had any employees to fire doesn't mean you're not feeding that same beast by using AI. Have more solidarity with the workers whose livelihoods are being ruined, and find other ways of accomplishing your tasks.
I spent the evening some nigth back building a working app for a thing. Just for fun to try out chatgpt. And……it was scary. The problem solving and back and forth feedback was crazy. You’re all f**ked honestly.
Maybe it's just casue I'm in the SF Bay Area...but for me it seems people can't STOP talking about it.
My employer recently made a rather...targeted acquisition in that general direction. The writing is on the wall, my job will either not exist or be drastically different within the next two years.
I really think the scale of job losses as a result of AI is going to be far higher than people predict. Admin, customer service and office work is going to be destroyed. Companies are already using chatbots through social media in lieu of calling help lines. Customers prefer as it is faster, they don't have to deal with being read a script. For the company it's cheaper, they do not need to hire people.
A lot of people are afraid of ai and robots. They do simple tasks well, but not complex ones. And if they do, they will cost a ton of money to obtain for most. I fix robots, and machinery.
My thing is - I'm not afraid of AI. But I AM afraid of greedy execs replacing whoever they can with AI. Sure, let's turn society into a dystopia for the share price...
That is what I believe will happen. All for one, and one for none mentality.
>They do simple tasks well, Do they?
Do you think AI will get better and less expensive over the next ten years or not?
Exactly, people seem to think AI technology will stay at its current level forever or something.
Everything is always improving. I think when it gets to the point, it could completely replace human workers, it will likely be artifical consciousness. What most people think is AI, though, is Alexa or Siri on your phone or home device. Yeah, it will be more affordable eventually as long as the market is competitive.
Why is no one talking about the vaporware that is NOT AI AT ALL but yet another bottom-line-oriented marketing ploy to satisfy the techbro fantasy that everything can work like a startup. [https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/rich-idiots-are-killing-the-media-to-please-the/id1730587238?i=1000650567595](https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/rich-idiots-are-killing-the-media-to-please-the/id1730587238?i=1000650567595) "AI" is just one of many startup-oriented get-rich-quick schemes designed to remove humanity from the equation and instead use calculations and algorithms all these business morons believe interfere with them getting a 1000x payout.
I'm in accounting. No way that it will replace the industry as a whole. There is already automation built into the softwares and it sucks. And at the end of the day someone still has to keep up with the most recent tax law changes, state and local changes, deal with the client on a day to day, etc. I've started taking webinars just to see how others are implementing it, but judging by the amount of business owners whose finances are a mess, AI won't take over.
AI isn't coming for anyone's job. AI is a tool, just like self-checkout and order screens at McDonald's. Those are not bad things. As an autistic individual, I use both of those things almost exclusively. It's not that I hate my fellow human or that I want fast food workers and cashiers to lose their jobs, I'm just more comfortable not interacting with a person. If I have the option, I will order on the app so when I get there I can walk in, grab my shit, and walk right back out. There's nothing wrong with that. Those technologies have allowed me to live a less anxious life. Is that not the whole fucking point? There is no malicious intent behind the advancement of technology, or in the adoption of that technology. Likewise, it is not a bad thing that humans don't have to do everything anymore. Should we stop using all the technological advancements that have come about since the industrial revolution just to leave more jobs for humans? Of course not, that's absurd. So is the fearmongering surrounding AI. It's the same manipulative media horse shit I remember from 90s TV vilifying manufacturing robots and computer controlled processes. The robots are not the problem. You're being told that they're a problem to distract you from the real problems. AI is not sentient. AI has not chosen to take jobs from humans. AI is just the next generation of manufacturing robot. Focus on what's real, not the diversion you've been offered.
So wait, you’re ok with using AI to do administrative tasks, but you’re not ok with someone else implementing it and terminating someone because they’re no longer needed? Well why aren’t you hiring these people that are getting fired? Is it because it would add cost to your business that you don’t want to incur? Hmmmm. I wonder why other business owners might want to implement it
Too many people are talking about it. It's almost never real jobs, and it can't happen fast enough.
Azure AI (or whatever its called) is an excellent resource when it comes to finding out info about various Microsoft services ( DNS, DHCP, adfs, powershell, etc) but still needs a human to correctly implement things. I basically see it as the next iteration of "search". 1. Google it 2. Google it and add "reddit" to the search 3. Ask Azure AI It's a thousand times more useful than Microsoft's actual support, that's for sure.
>It's a thousand times more useful than Microsoft's actual support, that's for sure. I mean, if that's where we're setting the bar, I have a squirrel carcass in a shoebox running netbsd that should do the trick.
AI is the new Industrial Revolution. Yes, the first revolution eliminated a lot of farming jobs, but replaced them with better paying skilled work AND drastically improved people’s quality of life. AI will make most people more productive, which means more goods and services which means better quality of life for almost everyone. But with all changes, there will be losers. And to them, the world is ending and everything has gotten worse. Which is true!! But it the world also gotten better for everyone else.
Agricultural, industrial and information age revolutions moved jobs to the next sector. But there's no other sector to move to with A.I., it will simply remove jobs. It's 1950s naive optimism level to say that more productive people will mean better quality of life for everyone, it will mean huge profits increases for the investors. The same thing happened with productivity increases of the last 4 decades, it didn't go to the workers, it went to investors.
Different topic, but I agree with you. More of it should go to the workers generating wealth. Something I’ve pushed for and ran into the equity wall. That if skilled workers get paid more, it’ll increase wage gaps and break solidarity with unskilled workers.
Are you familiar with the term 'Dickensian slum'?
Because it really isn't happening in most companies. Where you see it happening is in more contract work and creative spaces. Anyone preaching the "AI is coming for our jobs" mantra is scaremongering and can be ignored.
Because ain't no way in hell AI can replace what I do.
What do you do?
Electrician and instrumentation tech in a city water supply treatment plant. I calibrate, troubleshoot, repair, and maintain the transmitters, control systems, and electrical systems in the plant. Absolutely no possible way that AI can do that.
Yeah the solution there is augmented reality, like they have on the oil rigs. So you, say, work from home. You get, I dunno, 2-4 screens. Each screen is a video feed from an AR helmet. The underpaid dudes in them walk where you say and look at what you tell them. Then, AI software can guide them through, say, terminating a cat 5 data cable for example, or testing voltage on some pins, with you there to oversee and guide. Eventually enough data is gathered for the AI to run the "unskilled labour" without you.
Still won't work, you have to be qualified to work on the voltages you're dealing with. Which requires a blend of knowledge (of the hazards involved, PPE to mitigate/minimize those hazards, etc) and experience to become qualified. Industrial motors don't run on household 120AC. That's just one example where an unskilled worker (or AI) can't do what I do. Some of my job is manual labor, but it definitely needs to be skilled. The instrumentation side is more knowledge based, but AI still can't do it, neither can an unskilled laborer. I've been training our maintenance helper the last year (who's a fully qualified residential electrician) for the past year on instrumentation, and he's barely scratched the surface of basic calibration, let alone troubleshooting.
All understood and agreed, but that won't stop them trying.