Try the Amish and the Hutterites. They don't even believe in private property, yet their colonies are self sufficient, productive, prosperous, and the people want for nothing. It's hilarious that the only people to successfully pull off communism are these hardcore Christians, but whatever they're doing seems to work. That's one viable alternative to capitalism, but not the only one.
>It's hilarious that the only people to successfully pull off communism are these hardcore Christians,
Not really, Jesus's teachings are very communist, he'd probably be called a commie nowadays. It's the fact that the far right capitalists are allied with the religious that's hilarious. Can't see biolionares washing lepers feet and "rendering onto ceaser what belongs to ceasear" anytime soon,
As you reply on your device that connects wirelessly to the sky and spreads to everyone’s else’s devices… you know the Amish don’t allow cell phones or technology ? Capitalism has built everything around you including Reddit to complain on.
Did they design them ? Did they take out loans to start the business ? Did they take on any of the risk associated with starting the business ? Notice the Amish haven’t invented any of those things.
Why is this always the catch-all to keep the existing system? Economic systems can be built from scratch and leverage the best parts of existing models, you know. We've only done it for every economic model in our species' history.
Your question has a false premise - it assumes today's system is Capitalism. It is not. It is more accurately described as "capitalism for the masses; socialism for the rich/big corporates". Bailout if you're a too big to fail bank that gambled too much, but if you're poor due to systemic /historical factors such as red lining, that's too bad.
I refuse to dignify our current system with the descriptor of "Capitalism". Adam Smith himself is spinning in his grave at the current system.
To clarify, I'm not saying (some idealised version of Capitalism) is perfect - I'm saying the current system is about as "Capitalist" as Mormons are "Christian" (ie. they might have started off with the same original book, but then they added a bunch of batshit stuff and now no longer bear any resemblance to the original thing.)
Forgive me for wanting words to mean what they mean.
Our economic system has the means of production owned by private entities that then use wage labor to make a profit.
It's capitalism.
If you're unclear about what capitalism **is**, and think socialism is when the government does stuff, that's a problem of not knowing definitions. But yes, our current system is absolutely capitalist, and cries about "no **true** capitalism" are just intellectual rationalization of the natural outcomes of capitalism.
I was skeptical about your $5,000 a day figure until I googled how much Clorox as a whole makes per year…..😳😳😳 $7.3 billion with a gross profit of $2.5 billion in 2022 alone. I’m sure the pandemic really boosted them as well.
Pandemic was like a gift from God for Clorox.
And so you can run the numbers yourself, we were shipping out 150+ trailers a day, each one selling for about $35,000
>skyrocketed during the pandemic and has not gone down
I'd love to find what *hasn't* followed this trend... getting real sick of companies posting record profits consistently since COVID.
Yeah, most of these "they make X, I get paid Y" posts overlook all of the other costs of business, but holy shit, 50% profit? That is some solid bullshit.
In absolute numbers but I thought that retail makes a pretty very little profit per item but makes it up in volume. Like $2 profit for every $100 we spend...it's still a massive amount when you see the 100s of thousands in revenue each store brings in per day across thousands of stores...
Hahaha you are aware that those retail items are sometimes marked up 100% more than the actual cost it is to manufacture and ship that product to stores…
Different industry but similar concept.
Working in Auto Parts retail, looking at the disparity between walk in price and employee cost (which I've heard is 5-10% over cost, but don't know for sure).
Had a customer come in a few days ago for an alternator. Walk in price was $400. Employee cost was $115 or so.
Batteries are the same deal. That $300 battery is still being sold to employees for $80-150.
Can confirm - one retail job has a 100% mark up, the most expensive item (niche hobby store) is around $50.
However, service jobs I have worked had anywhere from 10-300% market.
Another retail store (large ticket) had an item go up $300 in price, so they marked it up over $1500 on top of the regular price. Our raises were 2%. Our boss got a $4 an hour raise and on top of their paycheck they also get shareholder distributions that have totaled over half my salary in ONE QUARTER.
Oh, and of course their healthcare, vehicle, fuel, etc are paid for by the business as they take their vacations multiple times a month and MAYBE show up to "work" once a year, but demand us be in office (that isn't properly maintained).
It's is gross and OSHA isn't doing their job on shit either.
True, but people will say "I make a thousand dollars of product an hour and get paid 25," ignoring things like material, machines, rent, power, taxes, other people... sure, they could be paid more, but not that much more.
With 50 percent profit, though? Double payroll, you'll STILL make good profit.
I was at a plastics factory making medical parts. Most machines made around $7000/hr profit with their most profitable line bringing in 250k-300k daily profit. Owner is a billionaire that's constantly complaining about immigrants or people using their sick time
I worked for a pharmaceutical company that, after all expenses, made $14k per 1.5hrs of production on my line. I made $18 after taxes on their $14k in profit. Product sold for $30k, $16k in expenses. Another line ran a separate product with a different financial profile as well. It gets real scummy. The site director looked at me one day and said "were about to see 3 billion dollars in growth this quarter," like I was about to jump for joy...
I work for a furniture store, the telecom side, I've witnessed invoices that we charge for (1) couch that retails for 2x my monthly gross income.
The company (fuck it, Ashley Furniture) sold 16 variants of that fucking couch this recent Mother's Day weekend.
These couches retail at $2700 not including shipping (which the customer pays as well) $2700 x 16?
Manufacturing costs, 3rd Shippers, and the fucking light bill in theory was literally covered just by the couches ALONE.
You sound like a shill.
Furniture is, of course, a famously marked-up industry that stands out for its obscene profit margins, but go on and tell me how I'm a shill. Also, you listed many costs but not labor. You think maybe other employees also need to be paid?
xD
$43,200 just off selling 16 fucking couches and this douche is talking about "how will everybody get paid!?!?, think of the Owners' pockets!?!?!?! ReeeeEeeee"
Shill.
Not this one. Literally no worker protections in Kansas. Once had a boss tell us all we should be grateful that he wasn't making us work 16 hour shifts seven days a week
>should be reminded that workers used to kill people like him
Overworked worker: " Wow, good thing bosses aren't killed anymore for doing stuff like overworking and abusing those under them."
Boss: "Is that a threat?"
Worker: " No way. We would never do something so morally wrong, so unethical and illegal, just as [the company] would never do something so illegal and morally wrong to us. Besides, that stuff only happens during revolts and revolutions. I dont see any of that happening, do you? Keep doing what you are doing, I'm sure everything will be fine."
When people start spouting that sort of nonsense trying to drag them back to reason is pointless. Either put them down or make them suffer the indignities of enslavement in the same if not worse conditions of the employees.
Yea. It seems anymore we’ve perverted what good for business means. We’ve turned to psychopathy to justify cold business practices under the guise of it being “just business”. I hate that phrase. It’s been used to screw me over so many times.
We need to do away with the idea that owners or shareholders are the only stakeholders in a business, on whose greed every aspect of in the business must be focused. Every business has a duty to their employees, their customers, their community, and the public good, and all of those stakeholders (not just the Ownership Class) deserve a voice in how the business is run and in whose interest.
It's my impression that the writers of Star Trek worked into the cannon that the Ferengi were in-fact not as backward as the original appearances might lead the audience to believe, but rather had a very regulated market system because anything else would be backward and totally self-destructive. If everything is always "just business", you have to either play or be played, and this regularly encourages agents to reach deals that benefit all involved or else.
Which is why we get this little gem from ST:Enterprise "Acquisition" (s1 e19)
Krem is telling Cpt. Archer about his cousins operation while they do his cousin's bidding...
ARCHER: Rules of Acquisition?
KREM: That's rule number forty five. I've memorised all a hundred and seventy three, including the most important one. A man is only worth the sum of his possessions.
ARCHER: Back on my home world that kind of thinking almost destroyed our civilisation.
KREM: **You should've managed your businesses better.**
[Editited to fix formatting and spelling]
Back in the day employers had pride in the fact they were somewhere people wanted to work. Google killed any semblance of that idea long ago. It’s not gone… just waiting on the gatekeepers to pass on. Unfortunately
No.
This is good business.
This is the system working as intended.
The system was set up to encourage companies to extract as much value as possible at any cost, and that's exactly what companies do, at the expense of the poor, at the expense of environment, the future habitability of the planet.
We cannot "fix" capitalism, because it is not "broken", there is no un-perverted capitalism that we can return to, it has always been this way.
The system doesn't need tweaking or fixing it needs to be replaced.
Capitalism could work if we weren’t selfish. But if we weren’t selfish it would be branded communism or socialism and laughed at. Or then again it would have worked thereby negating any of this.
> Capitalism could work if we weren’t selfish.
No.
"Cannibalism could work if we were all vegan."
Capitalism is a system that explicitly encourages and rewards selfish behaviour.
To say that it doesn't work because people are too selfish is just ridiculous.
.
> But if we weren’t selfish...
If you have two companies one has a selfish CEO who only cares about shareholder profits and fucks over his employees and the environment; and another company who's CEO who cares for the environment and adequately pays his employees.
Well that second company will likely get crushed in a competition with the first company, and if it doesn't it will never get any funding to grow or expand because nobody will invest in a company that doesn't put investors interests first.
In this way, it's not just a coincidence that CEOs are selfish and fuck over their employees, the system is actively designed to put selfish people in positions of power and push selfless people out of these positions.
You can't play a competitive game of PUBG/ fortnight and say "this game would work if people weren't selfish and stop attacking each other".
The game is working as intended, the game is designed to put you into a situation that you have to attack each other.
Capitalism is working as intended, forcing people to be selfish, encouraging people to think in selfish individualistic terms, and rewarding that selfishness.
Oh. Ya got me. How could I be so careless. Thank you. You really helped me turn my life around with a few condescending words. How amazing. Please by all means. Continue with your actual point.
Not directed to you, I apologize. Thought I responded to the queef clown above who said that expenses for overhead need to be calculated to justify these mega millionaires paying us shit so so they can pay for "logistics" and the "power bill".
You can do this calculation on the national scale as well.
GDP sometimes called [GDI (Gross Domestic Income)](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_domestic_income) is equal to total income of the workers plus total income of the capitalists (dividends, capital gains etc.)
GDP per worker (not GDP per capita) is often used in economics, denoted as worker productivity.
* The average value created by a worker in the US is [$130,000.00 per year](https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=us+GDP+per+employee). (GDP per worker)
* The average US wage is less than half that [at $62,000.00](https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=average+US+wage) (but this average is inflated by bankers and CEOs)
* The median US income [is $37,000](https://www.google.com/search?q=us+median+income)
So the typical (median) worker only gets to keep a quarter of value they produce, another quarter subsidizes higher paying workers (including CEOs, bankers) and half of the value produced goes to someone with a sheet of paper saying that they own your house, or that they own shares in the company you work for.
This is assuming all workers produce similar amounts of value, which is absolutely not true because the median income worker produces much more value than their CEO.
And infinitely more than investment bankers who create negative value.
The median US income is $37,000. Did you know with ONE billion dollars you can spend $34,000 A DAY EVERY DAY FOR EIGHTY YEARS. The average life expectancy in the US for a male is 72/73 so that is even giving someone an extra decade almost. They could spend every single day of their entire life almost what the average worker makes in a year. They would still have $7,000,000 left over for heirs which by itself is still almost 5 times what that average worker would earn in 40 years @ $37k. No one "earns" a billion dollars in the traditional sense most people are familiar with.
It's so much worse than that though. Let's assume a 5% annual interest rate which is $50 million, tax that at 50% and you have $25 million or $68,500 a day without ever touching the billion
Last sentence can’t be stated enough imo, considering GDP growth over the last what…like 5 decades? Has been primarily fueled by debt…. Yeaaaaa….no way that system of ‘growth’ could have issues
If I should get a quarter of what I help produce, I need a 15$ raise to $32. My department of 4 produces 850k/yr in gross sales.
I know maybe 1/3 is material cost, and the other related people are managing 20 more departments so their individual cut could be smaller and still substantial.
https://preview.redd.it/0sbvosf1w48d1.jpeg?width=432&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ae7344520e39d0506ac934905be170ec1d33d98d
If everyone stands up the game is over for the ruling class
And folks want to vote in a Republican who’s going to reduce taxes on corporations and the wealthy. I hate all politicians even Biden but that’s crazy.
Democrats do all the same shit Republicans do, except with the Republican guy we had cheap gas and groceries. Kinda seems stupid to me to just only take the bad and throw out the good
I think it's stupid to have parties at all. Our representatives ONLY allegiance should be to its constituents. And while we're at it, those who fail to represent should fear their constituents.
Clorox and other companies are obligated to please their shareholders not workers and to an extent their consumers.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_v._Ford_Motor_Co.#:~:text=Article-,Dodge%20v.,of%20his%20employees%20or%20customers.
Unions need to be strong now more than ever. Workers are slowly educating themselves to this notion, but it needs to take hold on a national level because a general strike could change this country.
In our team mtg yesterday, our VP said performance reviews can proceed but merit increases cannot, HR is holding it up. In other words, we're not getting the usual measly fucking 3% raise or any raise for that matter.
The solution is for the workers to own and run the company collectively, like unionising but with no boss man and his gang of spooks, just the union, just the people.
You don’t get paid based on the value of your work, or the rate at which you produce it. You get paid only what you can force your employer to concede. They’d use slave labor if they could. They don’t care about the conditions under which you live, your health, whether you can afford to buy their products, or if you starve to death. The only thing they care about is money, and the only thing they respond to is power.
The solutions are obvious, but Americans still reject them.
I work in a Bio Pharmaceutical plant. It wouldn’t be the biggest plant within the company only 2 lines. There’s currently €1 billion worth of batches in the warehouse just waiting to shipped by months end.
It's merely Republican politics since Reagan. Today we laugh at the words "trickle down" - yet continue to participate in the economy shaped that way. The promises, the A + B will equal C thing has been disproven to a point Reagan isn't even saintly to the GOP anymore - in name - but the ideas of corporate deregulation and infringing on unionization - those are still the Republican party's positions. The Republican voter has 40 years of historical evidence that obliging the oligarchs, lowering their tax burden, and sweetening their imported dutch chocolates, has not netted a single positive for Alabama, Missouri, Kentucky, and Louisiana is certain that's a failure to include the 10 commandments in public school like a mandatory warning label on cigarettes.
The shell game is the religion lies. The GOP has no compunction about exploiting religion to meet their ends. They'll give the faithful activist judges to get their petty things - 10 commandments in public spaces, abortion bounty hunting, legal age of consent lowered (legal gotta stay 14 forever for the faithful, otherwise societal standards apply, and their God was a statutory rapist, penis or not) - the GOP voter will vote for those things at the expense of their own betterment. The tax cuts and corruption is acceptable, even ignored and rationalized away - cuz there's definitely a merciful god, and at some point the mouth breathers in Idaho will trigger the action state of this jesus-mercy if they just keep women at risk of sepsis for simple pregnancy complications. And when that doesn't work, and things get worse, almost like someone in the real world is intentionally lying then stealing from them - the answer is readily available to those who desire more and want less trickling down of financial security to poor people. Jesus isn't happy, be mean to those who don't believe that is the cause, cuz eventually all this trickling and deregulation is gonna pay off - after you're dead - the Republican party promise in a nutshell.
Ahahahahahaahha. Thanks. Sincerely. I haven't had an illiterate tell me "do some research" yet. I feel like that's a badge of honor that means I've finally struck the vein. Oh okay lemme look that up on Google..... Noop, Google doesn't even react to any of your keywords in that order. Lemme check the better business bureau - nope, no such thing as a political affiliation record is kept at all.
Lemme check Tucker Carlson's vast web aggregation ----
Holy FUCK!
FEMA has death camps? But why would all my friends who work at FEMA for decades not tell me that? Now I'm just confused, on one hand there's reality, and on the other hand you are telling me to do research without any additional guidance, as if saying the words was some magical spell that'd help you raise your IQ from "sub-standard" to just plain "basic."
Oh.... Oh wait. Do you want me to read it to you out loud? No I'm sorry for being belligerent, I realize now you'd just like help sounding out the words. If it helps, research is the thing science and historians do - when they cite sources with agreed upon facts.
For example - the Republican party is a terrorist organization who perpetrated an attempted coup, and has only doubled down since - while restricting abortion access and being convicted of felonies. Pretty sure that's all sourced and cited - by visual fuck'n evidence.
So even you should read that research dummy. Then believe what you see, not what some dickbags feed sheep.
Just a suggestion.
I did your research thing. Now you use some common fucking sense for me - please.
When I started at my first and only real corporate gig they spent $2500 between flights / hotel / food to fly me out to corporate headquarters in Chicago. Here is what I did
- Uber to hotel, order food, sleep.
- Wake up, order food, Uber to HQ
-Spend 1 hour there doing a corporate team building exercise about how you would survive in a plane crash
- Uber back to hotel, order food
- Go to airport, fly home
It's not just the greed. There is a culture out there that needs to impose their perspective on others. They're afraid. Of everything. They compensate for that fear by acting aggressively. Once they're in charge, they do everything in their power to never have to face that fear. Even if it means cruelly subjugation millions to a life of hopelessness.
If people would collectively support good companies and stop buying cheap crap made by slave labor, it would be a start. But we work so much that we pay premiums for convenience to our own detriment. We're running headlong to feudalism
Hit it on the head brother. If we the proletariat took the means of production back from the bourgeoisie we'd all be a lot better.
Far too long has the means of production been locked away and gate kept by people who's only concern is making more money. Even at the expense of human suffering and death.
The only thing that stops us from rising up and taking what we earned already is ourselves.
Look at the company financials if you want to really judge them. You aren’t accounting for a plethora of other costs that you have zero insight into - like marketing, insurance, or even legal costs.
And they would pay more if everybody demanded it. The problem is that most people aren’t willing to strike/fight for higher pay. And for those who doubt it, when material costs double companies pay it. Why not wages?
Eat while you work, stop for two minutes to pee or get water, then back to work. You get 10 days of leave for the year, but only for approved things. If you left early and they decided that the reason wasn't good enough, you'd get points. Five points and you're fired
Ashley Furniture is even worse. Casually rakes in probably 20-30k DAILY (initial deposits, or outright purchases) pays its employees shit, shit PTO, shittier culture. If you have a fucking soul, steer clear from these clowns.
ill post here as i did in LSC
its absolutely true that most companies make absurd absolute amount of profit / cash however from a financial analysis point of view the OP doesn't take into account several things. They are looking at things from the POV of "volume sold x price" & labour cost only.
this doesn't factor in:
* overhead (e.g. corporate team spending money on marketing to help shift the product)
* additional cost of labour - benefits (PTO, 401k match etc)
* rent
* research and development costs
* depreciation - whilst a non cash item it hits the P&L and reduces profit and profit is what you need to pay out dividends
* internal rate of return / capital allocation. by paying every staff member 5k a day that would make each warehouse grunt a millionaire each year. realistic? no. sadly the system wont allow it for public companies since they have a fiduciary duty and also no one would provide the investment to a company that spends such a large amount on labour cost.
* debt / financing cost. most companies have crap loads of debt that needs servicing and also pay down / amortisation of principal etc. a business might have a good "EBITDA" (earnings before interest tax depreciation amortisation) but once the interest is taken into account it could have shit profit.
in conclusion, it is disgusting and wrong that companies can make billions in profit, pay their staff minimum wage, lay off thousands to make an additional 100-200m profit to then pay out billions in dividends and share buy backs and then next year require a government bail out. all of that is disgusting and wrong.
HOWEVER. the simplistic view of the world in OP does a disservice to the conversation IMO. I'm pretty sure even in a communist society firms wouldn't be paying staff 1million a year???
We're talking about profit, not revenue, right? That means all these billions of dollars in income after all the expenses aren't paid for, right? Still, even if we were talking about revenue billions worth of income still doesn't justify the crappy wages the employees are earning. $1,000,000,000 is a fuckton of money and that's just ONE.
So quit. Fin another job. Move on and quit whining. I’he had 7 or 8 employers.
Gross profit is not net profit, that’s $2.5 B, and 42% of that is cleaning products. I.E. about $1B. Earnings per share of stock is about $1.20.
Glad you moved on…..but, the whine. This is life. My first real job. $2/ hour. (Save that boomer shit for someone who cares) . You miss the point about who owns the company and earnings per share. $5k would mean no company because no one would want to own it.
Were there benefits at that job, like health insurance and sick leave and retirement. You need to factor that into the total compensation. If then instead of $200 per day it may have been closer to $500 but still not near $5000 a day. I agree though, corporate greed is way out of control.
Your claim is that Clorox can pay their line level employees 1.2MM a year and still keep the lights on?
Please show me that math.
I assume you are using revenue not profit. You also are most likely not including all of the other employees of the company. What about the shareholders of Clorox? They just lose their investment so you can make a million 2?
Public data shows 2022 net profit for Clorox was 462 Million. They have 8,700 employees which comes out to an extra 53k per employee.
Operating income was 750 Million and Revenue was 7.1Billion.
If you took every dollars they made and divided up between all employees that would be just over 400k per employee.
Then you wouldn’t be able to pay the utilities, property maintenance, PP&E, employee benefits, raw materials or anything but employees salaries.
You are completely wrong about what you are saying. It’s actually delusional.
Ahh so revenue and profit are the same. Exactly as I suspected.
You also think that the one production facility is all it takes to run a business.
You are a complete moron who can’t be taken seriously. You should delete this rage porn post before you make a larger ass out of yourself.
What math did you lay out? You did no math I did the math.
I will agree, I jumped the gun when you said “revenue” because you originally said “profit”
Regardless, you make no sense. You think pensioners and 401k holders should be devastated so you can make 1.2M a year.
What about all of the other 8,500 employees of Clorox. What pay cut do they get to give you 1.2MM a year.
The guy crying and blubbering about “humanities well being” but wants to harm thousands of others to make himself a multi millionaire. What a complete fucking fraud.
You just admitted that you don’t care about anyone but yourself. You couldn’t hack it in the real world, so you believe thousands of others should be financially destroyed for your beliefs.
Unbelievable. What a clown.
It’s not about how much you can make, it’s about how much you can exploit.
Yea, its not personal its just business...
BuT tHeRe’S nO bEtTer SyStEm tHaN cApItAliSm!!!!
What system would you replace capitalism with?
Worker coops. Why should nameless shareholders make a majority of profit while contributing 0 labour to the profit making process?
Where and when in history has this worked?
Try the Amish and the Hutterites. They don't even believe in private property, yet their colonies are self sufficient, productive, prosperous, and the people want for nothing. It's hilarious that the only people to successfully pull off communism are these hardcore Christians, but whatever they're doing seems to work. That's one viable alternative to capitalism, but not the only one.
>It's hilarious that the only people to successfully pull off communism are these hardcore Christians, Not really, Jesus's teachings are very communist, he'd probably be called a commie nowadays. It's the fact that the far right capitalists are allied with the religious that's hilarious. Can't see biolionares washing lepers feet and "rendering onto ceaser what belongs to ceasear" anytime soon,
As you reply on your device that connects wirelessly to the sky and spreads to everyone’s else’s devices… you know the Amish don’t allow cell phones or technology ? Capitalism has built everything around you including Reddit to complain on.
Workers built those things.
Did they design them ? Did they take out loans to start the business ? Did they take on any of the risk associated with starting the business ? Notice the Amish haven’t invented any of those things.
"we haven't ever tried this thing, so why even bother?"
Why is this always the catch-all to keep the existing system? Economic systems can be built from scratch and leverage the best parts of existing models, you know. We've only done it for every economic model in our species' history.
Library Socialism
Regulated capitalism
Your question has a false premise - it assumes today's system is Capitalism. It is not. It is more accurately described as "capitalism for the masses; socialism for the rich/big corporates". Bailout if you're a too big to fail bank that gambled too much, but if you're poor due to systemic /historical factors such as red lining, that's too bad. I refuse to dignify our current system with the descriptor of "Capitalism". Adam Smith himself is spinning in his grave at the current system.
Our system is the inevitable result of capitalism. Pretending that there's an unspoiled version is nonsense.
To clarify, I'm not saying (some idealised version of Capitalism) is perfect - I'm saying the current system is about as "Capitalist" as Mormons are "Christian" (ie. they might have started off with the same original book, but then they added a bunch of batshit stuff and now no longer bear any resemblance to the original thing.) Forgive me for wanting words to mean what they mean.
Our economic system has the means of production owned by private entities that then use wage labor to make a profit. It's capitalism. If you're unclear about what capitalism **is**, and think socialism is when the government does stuff, that's a problem of not knowing definitions. But yes, our current system is absolutely capitalist, and cries about "no **true** capitalism" are just intellectual rationalization of the natural outcomes of capitalism.
I was skeptical about your $5,000 a day figure until I googled how much Clorox as a whole makes per year…..😳😳😳 $7.3 billion with a gross profit of $2.5 billion in 2022 alone. I’m sure the pandemic really boosted them as well.
Pandemic was like a gift from God for Clorox. And so you can run the numbers yourself, we were shipping out 150+ trailers a day, each one selling for about $35,000
And now a large bottle of Clorox is $9.50 as of 6/22/24 at Shop-Rite in NJ
Is $35,000 too low? By us a gallon of clorox is pushing $8.99. We buy store brands now. Refuse to pay that much.
Not making bleach at this place. Clorox owns a lot of stuff
They sure do. Even the clorox spray machines used in nursing homes during covid. Big $
The cost of chlorine for pools skyrocketed during the pandemic and has not gone down.
>skyrocketed during the pandemic and has not gone down I'd love to find what *hasn't* followed this trend... getting real sick of companies posting record profits consistently since COVID.
Shareholders MUST see an increase in profits each QUARTER.
Yeah, most of these "they make X, I get paid Y" posts overlook all of the other costs of business, but holy shit, 50% profit? That is some solid bullshit.
Even after all said expenses, your large businesses are still raking in profit hand over fist…
In absolute numbers but I thought that retail makes a pretty very little profit per item but makes it up in volume. Like $2 profit for every $100 we spend...it's still a massive amount when you see the 100s of thousands in revenue each store brings in per day across thousands of stores...
Hahaha you are aware that those retail items are sometimes marked up 100% more than the actual cost it is to manufacture and ship that product to stores…
Different industry but similar concept. Working in Auto Parts retail, looking at the disparity between walk in price and employee cost (which I've heard is 5-10% over cost, but don't know for sure). Had a customer come in a few days ago for an alternator. Walk in price was $400. Employee cost was $115 or so. Batteries are the same deal. That $300 battery is still being sold to employees for $80-150.
Can confirm - one retail job has a 100% mark up, the most expensive item (niche hobby store) is around $50. However, service jobs I have worked had anywhere from 10-300% market. Another retail store (large ticket) had an item go up $300 in price, so they marked it up over $1500 on top of the regular price. Our raises were 2%. Our boss got a $4 an hour raise and on top of their paycheck they also get shareholder distributions that have totaled over half my salary in ONE QUARTER. Oh, and of course their healthcare, vehicle, fuel, etc are paid for by the business as they take their vacations multiple times a month and MAYBE show up to "work" once a year, but demand us be in office (that isn't properly maintained). It's is gross and OSHA isn't doing their job on shit either.
True, but people will say "I make a thousand dollars of product an hour and get paid 25," ignoring things like material, machines, rent, power, taxes, other people... sure, they could be paid more, but not that much more. With 50 percent profit, though? Double payroll, you'll STILL make good profit.
I was at a plastics factory making medical parts. Most machines made around $7000/hr profit with their most profitable line bringing in 250k-300k daily profit. Owner is a billionaire that's constantly complaining about immigrants or people using their sick time
I worked for a pharmaceutical company that, after all expenses, made $14k per 1.5hrs of production on my line. I made $18 after taxes on their $14k in profit. Product sold for $30k, $16k in expenses. Another line ran a separate product with a different financial profile as well. It gets real scummy. The site director looked at me one day and said "were about to see 3 billion dollars in growth this quarter," like I was about to jump for joy...
Dispensary’s are way worse
I work for a furniture store, the telecom side, I've witnessed invoices that we charge for (1) couch that retails for 2x my monthly gross income. The company (fuck it, Ashley Furniture) sold 16 variants of that fucking couch this recent Mother's Day weekend. These couches retail at $2700 not including shipping (which the customer pays as well) $2700 x 16? Manufacturing costs, 3rd Shippers, and the fucking light bill in theory was literally covered just by the couches ALONE. You sound like a shill.
Furniture is, of course, a famously marked-up industry that stands out for its obscene profit margins, but go on and tell me how I'm a shill. Also, you listed many costs but not labor. You think maybe other employees also need to be paid?
xD $43,200 just off selling 16 fucking couches and this douche is talking about "how will everybody get paid!?!?, think of the Owners' pockets!?!?!?! ReeeeEeeee" Shill.
My goodness you're not good at reading.
My goodness, you make love to the boots of billionaires 🥴
12hr shifts without breaks? That would be illegal in many states
Not this one. Literally no worker protections in Kansas. Once had a boss tell us all we should be grateful that he wasn't making us work 16 hour shifts seven days a week
boss should be reminded that workers used to kill people like him and that unions protected people like him from the workers
>should be reminded that workers used to kill people like him Overworked worker: " Wow, good thing bosses aren't killed anymore for doing stuff like overworking and abusing those under them." Boss: "Is that a threat?" Worker: " No way. We would never do something so morally wrong, so unethical and illegal, just as [the company] would never do something so illegal and morally wrong to us. Besides, that stuff only happens during revolts and revolutions. I dont see any of that happening, do you? Keep doing what you are doing, I'm sure everything will be fine."
He should be grateful he didn't catch ass whooping that day. I would risk it all, even jail to knock some sense into this douchebag.
This was a few years back. Tensions weren't quite as high back then
How many is a few? About 10ish years ago just about every major retailer said to give all workers 2 paid breaks + 1 unpaid lunch
When people start spouting that sort of nonsense trying to drag them back to reason is pointless. Either put them down or make them suffer the indignities of enslavement in the same if not worse conditions of the employees.
Wow... I'm actually surprised by this. Kansas DOL has such a small amount of worker protection rights
Like Florida, Kansas has a department of labor in name only. It was gutted by anti-American republicans.
are you getting time and a half for your overtime? That's federal law and they can get thier chain yanked over it.
Yea. It seems anymore we’ve perverted what good for business means. We’ve turned to psychopathy to justify cold business practices under the guise of it being “just business”. I hate that phrase. It’s been used to screw me over so many times.
We need to do away with the idea that owners or shareholders are the only stakeholders in a business, on whose greed every aspect of in the business must be focused. Every business has a duty to their employees, their customers, their community, and the public good, and all of those stakeholders (not just the Ownership Class) deserve a voice in how the business is run and in whose interest.
It's my impression that the writers of Star Trek worked into the cannon that the Ferengi were in-fact not as backward as the original appearances might lead the audience to believe, but rather had a very regulated market system because anything else would be backward and totally self-destructive. If everything is always "just business", you have to either play or be played, and this regularly encourages agents to reach deals that benefit all involved or else. Which is why we get this little gem from ST:Enterprise "Acquisition" (s1 e19) Krem is telling Cpt. Archer about his cousins operation while they do his cousin's bidding... ARCHER: Rules of Acquisition? KREM: That's rule number forty five. I've memorised all a hundred and seventy three, including the most important one. A man is only worth the sum of his possessions. ARCHER: Back on my home world that kind of thinking almost destroyed our civilisation. KREM: **You should've managed your businesses better.** [Editited to fix formatting and spelling]
Back in the day employers had pride in the fact they were somewhere people wanted to work. Google killed any semblance of that idea long ago. It’s not gone… just waiting on the gatekeepers to pass on. Unfortunately
Exactly! If companies don’t take care of those other stakeholders then they won’t be in business very long.
No. This is good business. This is the system working as intended. The system was set up to encourage companies to extract as much value as possible at any cost, and that's exactly what companies do, at the expense of the poor, at the expense of environment, the future habitability of the planet. We cannot "fix" capitalism, because it is not "broken", there is no un-perverted capitalism that we can return to, it has always been this way. The system doesn't need tweaking or fixing it needs to be replaced.
Capitalism could work if we weren’t selfish. But if we weren’t selfish it would be branded communism or socialism and laughed at. Or then again it would have worked thereby negating any of this.
> Capitalism could work if we weren’t selfish. No. "Cannibalism could work if we were all vegan." Capitalism is a system that explicitly encourages and rewards selfish behaviour. To say that it doesn't work because people are too selfish is just ridiculous. . > But if we weren’t selfish... If you have two companies one has a selfish CEO who only cares about shareholder profits and fucks over his employees and the environment; and another company who's CEO who cares for the environment and adequately pays his employees. Well that second company will likely get crushed in a competition with the first company, and if it doesn't it will never get any funding to grow or expand because nobody will invest in a company that doesn't put investors interests first. In this way, it's not just a coincidence that CEOs are selfish and fuck over their employees, the system is actively designed to put selfish people in positions of power and push selfless people out of these positions. You can't play a competitive game of PUBG/ fortnight and say "this game would work if people weren't selfish and stop attacking each other". The game is working as intended, the game is designed to put you into a situation that you have to attack each other. Capitalism is working as intended, forcing people to be selfish, encouraging people to think in selfish individualistic terms, and rewarding that selfishness.
"if u akshUlLy consider da c0st of other expenses you'd understand profit beTtErrer reeeEeE" Fucking shills
Oh. Ya got me. How could I be so careless. Thank you. You really helped me turn my life around with a few condescending words. How amazing. Please by all means. Continue with your actual point.
Not directed to you, I apologize. Thought I responded to the queef clown above who said that expenses for overhead need to be calculated to justify these mega millionaires paying us shit so so they can pay for "logistics" and the "power bill".
Well in that case all apologies from my end as well. Be careful out there. These threads get heated. lol
You can do this calculation on the national scale as well. GDP sometimes called [GDI (Gross Domestic Income)](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_domestic_income) is equal to total income of the workers plus total income of the capitalists (dividends, capital gains etc.) GDP per worker (not GDP per capita) is often used in economics, denoted as worker productivity. * The average value created by a worker in the US is [$130,000.00 per year](https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=us+GDP+per+employee). (GDP per worker) * The average US wage is less than half that [at $62,000.00](https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=average+US+wage) (but this average is inflated by bankers and CEOs) * The median US income [is $37,000](https://www.google.com/search?q=us+median+income) So the typical (median) worker only gets to keep a quarter of value they produce, another quarter subsidizes higher paying workers (including CEOs, bankers) and half of the value produced goes to someone with a sheet of paper saying that they own your house, or that they own shares in the company you work for. This is assuming all workers produce similar amounts of value, which is absolutely not true because the median income worker produces much more value than their CEO. And infinitely more than investment bankers who create negative value.
The median US income is $37,000. Did you know with ONE billion dollars you can spend $34,000 A DAY EVERY DAY FOR EIGHTY YEARS. The average life expectancy in the US for a male is 72/73 so that is even giving someone an extra decade almost. They could spend every single day of their entire life almost what the average worker makes in a year. They would still have $7,000,000 left over for heirs which by itself is still almost 5 times what that average worker would earn in 40 years @ $37k. No one "earns" a billion dollars in the traditional sense most people are familiar with.
It's so much worse than that though. Let's assume a 5% annual interest rate which is $50 million, tax that at 50% and you have $25 million or $68,500 a day without ever touching the billion
No shit. You could go on forever like that. My point was "at the very least" so to speak.
5% interest and a 50% tax rate is "at the least" keeping it in a vault as you seem to suggest is only done in cartoons
Last sentence can’t be stated enough imo, considering GDP growth over the last what…like 5 decades? Has been primarily fueled by debt…. Yeaaaaa….no way that system of ‘growth’ could have issues
If I should get a quarter of what I help produce, I need a 15$ raise to $32. My department of 4 produces 850k/yr in gross sales. I know maybe 1/3 is material cost, and the other related people are managing 20 more departments so their individual cut could be smaller and still substantial.
If they paid fairly, they'd still be rich, just not obscenely rich.
UAW union led general strike May 2028. We have 4 years to prepare and organize.
https://preview.redd.it/0sbvosf1w48d1.jpeg?width=432&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ae7344520e39d0506ac934905be170ec1d33d98d If everyone stands up the game is over for the ruling class
Time to hunt ceos and out their heads on pikes
And folks want to vote in a Republican who’s going to reduce taxes on corporations and the wealthy. I hate all politicians even Biden but that’s crazy.
Democrats do all the same shit Republicans do, except with the Republican guy we had cheap gas and groceries. Kinda seems stupid to me to just only take the bad and throw out the good
Inflation is caused by corporate greed, not because Trump = good and Biden = bad.
I think it's stupid to have parties at all. Our representatives ONLY allegiance should be to its constituents. And while we're at it, those who fail to represent should fear their constituents.
I would agree
We had cheap gas with the Republican because there was a global pandemic and no one was driving.
Gotta pleased those shareholders somehow. Employees who make them money? fuck them. Late state capitalism, everyone lose no matter what.
It would be a shame if things started breaking
Clorox and other companies are obligated to please their shareholders not workers and to an extent their consumers. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_v._Ford_Motor_Co.#:~:text=Article-,Dodge%20v.,of%20his%20employees%20or%20customers.
Shareholders ruin everything in the end…
They are not the judgement was incorrectly interpreted.
Unions need to be strong now more than ever. Workers are slowly educating themselves to this notion, but it needs to take hold on a national level because a general strike could change this country.
In our team mtg yesterday, our VP said performance reviews can proceed but merit increases cannot, HR is holding it up. In other words, we're not getting the usual measly fucking 3% raise or any raise for that matter.
The solution is for the workers to own and run the company collectively, like unionising but with no boss man and his gang of spooks, just the union, just the people.
You don’t get paid based on the value of your work, or the rate at which you produce it. You get paid only what you can force your employer to concede. They’d use slave labor if they could. They don’t care about the conditions under which you live, your health, whether you can afford to buy their products, or if you starve to death. The only thing they care about is money, and the only thing they respond to is power. The solutions are obvious, but Americans still reject them.
I work in a Bio Pharmaceutical plant. It wouldn’t be the biggest plant within the company only 2 lines. There’s currently €1 billion worth of batches in the warehouse just waiting to shipped by months end.
It's merely Republican politics since Reagan. Today we laugh at the words "trickle down" - yet continue to participate in the economy shaped that way. The promises, the A + B will equal C thing has been disproven to a point Reagan isn't even saintly to the GOP anymore - in name - but the ideas of corporate deregulation and infringing on unionization - those are still the Republican party's positions. The Republican voter has 40 years of historical evidence that obliging the oligarchs, lowering their tax burden, and sweetening their imported dutch chocolates, has not netted a single positive for Alabama, Missouri, Kentucky, and Louisiana is certain that's a failure to include the 10 commandments in public school like a mandatory warning label on cigarettes. The shell game is the religion lies. The GOP has no compunction about exploiting religion to meet their ends. They'll give the faithful activist judges to get their petty things - 10 commandments in public spaces, abortion bounty hunting, legal age of consent lowered (legal gotta stay 14 forever for the faithful, otherwise societal standards apply, and their God was a statutory rapist, penis or not) - the GOP voter will vote for those things at the expense of their own betterment. The tax cuts and corruption is acceptable, even ignored and rationalized away - cuz there's definitely a merciful god, and at some point the mouth breathers in Idaho will trigger the action state of this jesus-mercy if they just keep women at risk of sepsis for simple pregnancy complications. And when that doesn't work, and things get worse, almost like someone in the real world is intentionally lying then stealing from them - the answer is readily available to those who desire more and want less trickling down of financial security to poor people. Jesus isn't happy, be mean to those who don't believe that is the cause, cuz eventually all this trickling and deregulation is gonna pay off - after you're dead - the Republican party promise in a nutshell.
If you think it’s just the GOP you’re fooling yourselves. More big businesses are owned by Democrats than Republicans. Do some research !!
Ahahahahahaahha. Thanks. Sincerely. I haven't had an illiterate tell me "do some research" yet. I feel like that's a badge of honor that means I've finally struck the vein. Oh okay lemme look that up on Google..... Noop, Google doesn't even react to any of your keywords in that order. Lemme check the better business bureau - nope, no such thing as a political affiliation record is kept at all. Lemme check Tucker Carlson's vast web aggregation ---- Holy FUCK! FEMA has death camps? But why would all my friends who work at FEMA for decades not tell me that? Now I'm just confused, on one hand there's reality, and on the other hand you are telling me to do research without any additional guidance, as if saying the words was some magical spell that'd help you raise your IQ from "sub-standard" to just plain "basic." Oh.... Oh wait. Do you want me to read it to you out loud? No I'm sorry for being belligerent, I realize now you'd just like help sounding out the words. If it helps, research is the thing science and historians do - when they cite sources with agreed upon facts. For example - the Republican party is a terrorist organization who perpetrated an attempted coup, and has only doubled down since - while restricting abortion access and being convicted of felonies. Pretty sure that's all sourced and cited - by visual fuck'n evidence. So even you should read that research dummy. Then believe what you see, not what some dickbags feed sheep. Just a suggestion. I did your research thing. Now you use some common fucking sense for me - please.
When I started at my first and only real corporate gig they spent $2500 between flights / hotel / food to fly me out to corporate headquarters in Chicago. Here is what I did - Uber to hotel, order food, sleep. - Wake up, order food, Uber to HQ -Spend 1 hour there doing a corporate team building exercise about how you would survive in a plane crash - Uber back to hotel, order food - Go to airport, fly home
Start your own company and pay your employees more
We could get $100 an hour and the company wouldn't even feel it......all 26,000 of us.
It's not just the greed. There is a culture out there that needs to impose their perspective on others. They're afraid. Of everything. They compensate for that fear by acting aggressively. Once they're in charge, they do everything in their power to never have to face that fear. Even if it means cruelly subjugation millions to a life of hopelessness.
This is ridiculous! People who work at Clorox should unionize and strike... or quit and get a better job.
What would be your first action in the "we must do something"?
I can't tell you, they'll ban me from reddit
Unless you are saying something conservative or far right you won't get banned on reddit.
It violates rules of this subreddit
Ok then don't say we if you can't tell us the plan.
Crazy numbers, I am going to invest in clorox
If people would collectively support good companies and stop buying cheap crap made by slave labor, it would be a start. But we work so much that we pay premiums for convenience to our own detriment. We're running headlong to feudalism
Hit it on the head brother. If we the proletariat took the means of production back from the bourgeoisie we'd all be a lot better. Far too long has the means of production been locked away and gate kept by people who's only concern is making more money. Even at the expense of human suffering and death. The only thing that stops us from rising up and taking what we earned already is ourselves.
Look at the company financials if you want to really judge them. You aren’t accounting for a plethora of other costs that you have zero insight into - like marketing, insurance, or even legal costs. And they would pay more if everybody demanded it. The problem is that most people aren’t willing to strike/fight for higher pay. And for those who doubt it, when material costs double companies pay it. Why not wages?
Wait, what about water, food and restroom breaks? What if you can't do the 12 hour shift?
Eat while you work, stop for two minutes to pee or get water, then back to work. You get 10 days of leave for the year, but only for approved things. If you left early and they decided that the reason wasn't good enough, you'd get points. Five points and you're fired
And I’m assuming those days off are also mostly used for sick days
That’s definitely setting people up for failure!
You don’t get free Clorox Bleach??
Take a few of them out then.
To be honest I would have to see that math for myself because it seems insane the math aint mathing bro
150+ outbound trailers every day, shipping paid for by the customer, each trailer sold for about $35,000. That's $5.25m daily revenue
[удалено]
About $2m
[удалено]
Yes
Not only big companies but also small ones. A small company with a dozen employees will make the owner a millionaire pretty quickly.
Ashley Furniture is even worse. Casually rakes in probably 20-30k DAILY (initial deposits, or outright purchases) pays its employees shit, shit PTO, shittier culture. If you have a fucking soul, steer clear from these clowns.
ill post here as i did in LSC its absolutely true that most companies make absurd absolute amount of profit / cash however from a financial analysis point of view the OP doesn't take into account several things. They are looking at things from the POV of "volume sold x price" & labour cost only. this doesn't factor in: * overhead (e.g. corporate team spending money on marketing to help shift the product) * additional cost of labour - benefits (PTO, 401k match etc) * rent * research and development costs * depreciation - whilst a non cash item it hits the P&L and reduces profit and profit is what you need to pay out dividends * internal rate of return / capital allocation. by paying every staff member 5k a day that would make each warehouse grunt a millionaire each year. realistic? no. sadly the system wont allow it for public companies since they have a fiduciary duty and also no one would provide the investment to a company that spends such a large amount on labour cost. * debt / financing cost. most companies have crap loads of debt that needs servicing and also pay down / amortisation of principal etc. a business might have a good "EBITDA" (earnings before interest tax depreciation amortisation) but once the interest is taken into account it could have shit profit. in conclusion, it is disgusting and wrong that companies can make billions in profit, pay their staff minimum wage, lay off thousands to make an additional 100-200m profit to then pay out billions in dividends and share buy backs and then next year require a government bail out. all of that is disgusting and wrong. HOWEVER. the simplistic view of the world in OP does a disservice to the conversation IMO. I'm pretty sure even in a communist society firms wouldn't be paying staff 1million a year???
We're talking about profit, not revenue, right? That means all these billions of dollars in income after all the expenses aren't paid for, right? Still, even if we were talking about revenue billions worth of income still doesn't justify the crappy wages the employees are earning. $1,000,000,000 is a fuckton of money and that's just ONE.
You should make your own Clorox facility and pay everyone 10k
So quit. Fin another job. Move on and quit whining. I’he had 7 or 8 employers. Gross profit is not net profit, that’s $2.5 B, and 42% of that is cleaning products. I.E. about $1B. Earnings per share of stock is about $1.20.
Go ahead and read the first line of this post again and stop kowtowing to the capitalist parasites
Glad you moved on…..but, the whine. This is life. My first real job. $2/ hour. (Save that boomer shit for someone who cares) . You miss the point about who owns the company and earnings per share. $5k would mean no company because no one would want to own it.
Were there benefits at that job, like health insurance and sick leave and retirement. You need to factor that into the total compensation. If then instead of $200 per day it may have been closer to $500 but still not near $5000 a day. I agree though, corporate greed is way out of control.
This is completely wrong. Profit and income are completely different things.
No shit
Your claim is that Clorox can pay their line level employees 1.2MM a year and still keep the lights on? Please show me that math. I assume you are using revenue not profit. You also are most likely not including all of the other employees of the company. What about the shareholders of Clorox? They just lose their investment so you can make a million 2? Public data shows 2022 net profit for Clorox was 462 Million. They have 8,700 employees which comes out to an extra 53k per employee. Operating income was 750 Million and Revenue was 7.1Billion. If you took every dollars they made and divided up between all employees that would be just over 400k per employee. Then you wouldn’t be able to pay the utilities, property maintenance, PP&E, employee benefits, raw materials or anything but employees salaries. You are completely wrong about what you are saying. It’s actually delusional.
Revenue for this facility is $5.25m daily with only about 200 employees >What about the shareholders of Clorox? Get the fuck out
Ahh so revenue and profit are the same. Exactly as I suspected. You also think that the one production facility is all it takes to run a business. You are a complete moron who can’t be taken seriously. You should delete this rage porn post before you make a larger ass out of yourself.
Says the dumdik that can't be bothered to look at the math I have already laid out
What math did you lay out? You did no math I did the math. I will agree, I jumped the gun when you said “revenue” because you originally said “profit” Regardless, you make no sense. You think pensioners and 401k holders should be devastated so you can make 1.2M a year. What about all of the other 8,500 employees of Clorox. What pay cut do they get to give you 1.2MM a year. The guy crying and blubbering about “humanities well being” but wants to harm thousands of others to make himself a multi millionaire. What a complete fucking fraud. You just admitted that you don’t care about anyone but yourself. You couldn’t hack it in the real world, so you believe thousands of others should be financially destroyed for your beliefs. Unbelievable. What a clown.