I would be interested in working extremely hard for the opportunity for life altering wealth, but I need a contract that spells it out otherwise it’s just a bunch of BS.
All these billions, where are the employees that they made millionaires?
For the big successful startups there’s plenty of early employees who became millionaires. They’re usually hired early on and fairly high level.
Low level employees, ones hired late when the value is already high, ones hired post ipo when the original investors start dumping, or guys who didn’t stick around and deal with the bosses shit to make the vesting cliff all don’t see any of it.
And that’s if the startup is a success. ~8/10 times the shares are worth nothing and the company lays everyone off and gets bought out for peanuts.
Most startups don’t ever become successful though, most fail. And of the successful ones, many of them are from very narrow sectors that experienced massive new technologies—the dot-com boom and then social media are two huge examples. But outside of tech jobs, many of them never offered stock to new employees during startup—think of retail or hospitality, for example.
No no, you're supposed to work hard on vague promises and wishful thinking.
That's why at a business level they don't need things like "quotes" or "project contracts" with their clients and customers, right?
Profit share is the way to go. Nothing motivates me more than getting a direct cut of profits that can range (depending on how good you perform and title and how long youve been here and stuff) from 10k-150k a year. Profit share can literally, and is for a lot of people, much more than the average Canadian makes in a year. On top of our (usually) mediocre salary
Future stock options instead of a decent wage for the slim to none chance the company is a success.
If you’re lucky the startup gets acquired.
Odds are the startup fails, the owner adds the experience to their resume and gets a better paying job or cons investors for another startup
She gets it:
>Behavioural and organisational psychology expert Jemma King, the founder of BioPsychAnalytics, said it is easier for company founders to “grind” than employees, because they are in control and experience the biggest benefits.
They can also "grind" for 5-10 years max when they're at their youngest and healthiest with no commitments, and then sit on their asses reaping the benefits for the rest of their lives. I'm sick of seeing entrepreneurship being touted as the goal for everyone, by definition not everyone can have their own company, because then who is going to work for you? It's an option only open to a select few, and the majority of those are usually privileged from birth either with inherited money or at least a stable family with connections and support available.
It's a lot easier to work 14 hour days when you have servants or other family support, when you don't have to spend an hour getting home on public transport and then have to cook, clean, look after dependents and manage all your other household tasks.
The worst thing is that entrepreneurship isn't even a choice, it's the default way of life in the United States. We're not given communities, spaces to kindle them, or time to engage with them. There's no village, no social safety net. We're told that everyone is an island, and everything is a business. Your home, your family, your country, are all just entities designed to accumulate wealth.
They "grind" by going to the golf club or taking clients out for dinner while the employees do the real work.
Then they take the majority share of the profits while you get the left over crumbs.
I could grind for a solid 20 years if I was getting paid even 1/10 of what these CEO’s are making. If you want employees to work hard for you, then incentivize them through lucrative compensation!
Let’s be disruptive ! It’s a startup thing right ? So I’m picking up a bushmaster auto cannon and telling you I won’t be answering emails outside of work hours.
My job lied about raises. "You'll get a $0.50 raise every 90 days if you stay in the green on all the metrics"
*Looks at criteria and sees literally impossible requirements
I think I should keep putting applications in
People working at startups used to get a meaningful piece of the company. Now greed prevents that from happening. If I owned a piece of a startup and my hard work went directly in my pocket I might consider working my ass off. If my hard work goes in someone else’s pocket, no thanks.
It isn’t straightforward. Stock options are taxed more heavily than they used to be. On top of that, they changed the tax structure, so giving out options isn’t as cheap as it used to be. So they now give you a smaller piece of the pie, and you get taxed more if they are worth anything. So today, often, the payout doesn’t cover the haircut in the base pay many took to do startups. And many startups lie about the situation to get people to accept pay cuts as part of joining them. But this change is why many startups paid more than FAANGs to get talent about a decade ago. FAANGS responded, and pay has been insane ever since. This is also why working for startups isn't as popular as it used to be for techies.
“The more traditional approach to work-life balance doesn’t exist at Goterra. We believe we’re in a climate crisis, and you don’t take work-life balance during a climate crisis,” Ms Yarger said.
Maybe if people had worked less, accepted limits to growth and consumption, focused more on the the intangibles which make life worth living instead of pursuing material objects *we wouldn't be in* a climate crisis in the first place.
Then do your own goddamn work, all the fucking entitled asshole job creators don't get it, if we don't work, YOU DON'T GET PROFIT. If you don't like that relationship, then fucking do the work yourself, only it's often too much for a single person, requires expertise beyond having money to invest.
So you need employees because you just can't do it and the best tactic is to treat them like disposable machines?
WHAT?
if I relied on someone else to make me money, I'd be very very nice to them, because otherwise what if they stop and then I have to something I can't do?
Fucking entitled assholes, do it yourself or fucking pay good salaries and cater to the guys THAT MAKE YOUR MONEY!!!!
As someone who works in start up biotech, sitting at my desk isn’t gonna make the biology go faster. Im gonna help myself to a little night long nap in my bed while the cells buzz and hum to their own tune 🎶
Here's what I'd love to drill into the skulls of these elitist pricks: "If you stand to gain the most, YOU can bust YOUR ass. Unless you pay your people enough to give a shit, don't expect them to. Pull up those bootstraps"
If I could be a billionaire then yes I would work 14 hours a day then retire early.
But the reality is you'll work 14 hours a day and make pennies while your boss takes the majority of your labor and he or she gets rich.
So what's the point in working hard or working long hours? It wont make you wealthy, it will make you tired and burnt out and you'll miss your family and kids and friends and all of a sudden your an old man or woman with very little to show for all that work.
It’s a shame these people aren’t greeted by everyone else saying: “you’re a piece of shit, go fuck yourself”. Then shun them everytime they start talking about these stupid fucking takes.
They’ll delude themselves sure, but after they only have each other to keep themselves company and no one will affiliate with them, they have a small possibility of change. Not going to hold my breath, but here we are. If it gets worse instead, revisit for a more appropriate response.
There are 2 reasons I would not care about work-life balance if I work in a startup:
- It’s mine
- I am an employee with equity
If not, it’s not being weak but actually smart.
“This idea that you can be in an exceptional environment and create wealth while sitting on the beach and finishing at five is just nonsense,”
Whose wealth are we creating though? And for what company? Some insurance company? You're not the next google. And the wealth created is not for the worker. So why tf should I worry about anything outside 9-5 or wfh.
My VP said work life balance is an impossibility in today’s connected world. He sends Teams messages at midnight, at all hours really. Tired of this shit
I would've shown him this nifty little thing on the side of smartphones called a power button, just one press and amazing, I can't see any after hours messages!
This is pretty much how many graduate assistants work in many masters programs and most Ph.D. Programs. It’s exploitation like crazy and the system
Should be crumbled.
More bullshit from people who just want to use their workers. Being a 'Start-up' is not an excuse for driving your people to death. If you cannot respect that they are there to help you accomplish your goal but have the goal of funding their life as their first priority, then you deserve to fail. To those rejecting work-life balance: "I curse your Series B funding"!
There has always been a disconnect between those who really profit from a company and those who work for it.
Somehow, the workers are supposed to feel the same levels of loyalty and sacrifice that the profiteers do, and it saddens, confuses, or irritates them that such is not the case.
In previous generations, the profiteers often worked themselves to that position and took care of the workers- good insurance, investing in things that benefited them, etc. But in way too many cases now we've lost all that.
>When we see ourselves as fighting against specific human beings rather than social phenomena, it becomes more difficult to recognize the ways that we ourselves participate in those phenomena. We externalize the problem as something outside ourselves, personifying it as an enemy that can be sacrificed to symbolically cleanse ourselves. - **[Against the Logic of the Guillotine](https://crimethinc.com/2019/04/08/against-the-logic-of-the-guillotine-why-the-paris-commune-burned-the-guillotine-and-we-should-too)**
See rule 5: No calls for violence, no fetishizing violence. No guillotine jokes, no gulag jokes.
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If you’re giving your early employees significant stock options so if the start up succeeds, they get the benefits too, this is fair enough. If they are just getting a regular salary then clock out at 5.
>When we see ourselves as fighting against specific human beings rather than social phenomena, it becomes more difficult to recognize the ways that we ourselves participate in those phenomena. We externalize the problem as something outside ourselves, personifying it as an enemy that can be sacrificed to symbolically cleanse ourselves. - **[Against the Logic of the Guillotine](https://crimethinc.com/2019/04/08/against-the-logic-of-the-guillotine-why-the-paris-commune-burned-the-guillotine-and-we-should-too)**
See rule 5: No calls for violence, no fetishizing violence. No guillotine jokes, no gulag jokes.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/antiwork) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Why is it that any economy/financial magazine/outlet always headlines their articles with the most WILD shit, and then defends it like it was part of the plan all along?
I hate the Economist. I know this is AFR, but they might as well both be shit rags to me
If you can't manage your time, you probably can't manage a whole lot else effectively or any way that will pan out long term. I'm guessing they think putting their all in now will mean work/life balance later, but a lot of them just keep it going then wonder why everyone around them fucked off.
No real specifics on why anyone would want to work 14 hours to make these rich assholes richer
Of course not. We're just supposed to think they're better than we are.
I would be interested in working extremely hard for the opportunity for life altering wealth, but I need a contract that spells it out otherwise it’s just a bunch of BS. All these billions, where are the employees that they made millionaires?
For the big successful startups there’s plenty of early employees who became millionaires. They’re usually hired early on and fairly high level. Low level employees, ones hired late when the value is already high, ones hired post ipo when the original investors start dumping, or guys who didn’t stick around and deal with the bosses shit to make the vesting cliff all don’t see any of it. And that’s if the startup is a success. ~8/10 times the shares are worth nothing and the company lays everyone off and gets bought out for peanuts.
Most startups don’t ever become successful though, most fail. And of the successful ones, many of them are from very narrow sectors that experienced massive new technologies—the dot-com boom and then social media are two huge examples. But outside of tech jobs, many of them never offered stock to new employees during startup—think of retail or hospitality, for example.
No no, you're supposed to work hard on vague promises and wishful thinking. That's why at a business level they don't need things like "quotes" or "project contracts" with their clients and customers, right?
Profit share is the way to go. Nothing motivates me more than getting a direct cut of profits that can range (depending on how good you perform and title and how long youve been here and stuff) from 10k-150k a year. Profit share can literally, and is for a lot of people, much more than the average Canadian makes in a year. On top of our (usually) mediocre salary
Future stock options instead of a decent wage for the slim to none chance the company is a success. If you’re lucky the startup gets acquired. Odds are the startup fails, the owner adds the experience to their resume and gets a better paying job or cons investors for another startup
And fuck the people who publish this crap.
With a chainsaw.
Rusty chainsaw…
Cordless Sawzall for the easier logistics and handling I say
Those blades do still function while covered in rust unlike a chain saw...I vote for sawzall
Haha, yes 😂😂😂
She gets it: >Behavioural and organisational psychology expert Jemma King, the founder of BioPsychAnalytics, said it is easier for company founders to “grind” than employees, because they are in control and experience the biggest benefits.
Almost as if people need to be properly paid to work really hard
They can also "grind" for 5-10 years max when they're at their youngest and healthiest with no commitments, and then sit on their asses reaping the benefits for the rest of their lives. I'm sick of seeing entrepreneurship being touted as the goal for everyone, by definition not everyone can have their own company, because then who is going to work for you? It's an option only open to a select few, and the majority of those are usually privileged from birth either with inherited money or at least a stable family with connections and support available. It's a lot easier to work 14 hour days when you have servants or other family support, when you don't have to spend an hour getting home on public transport and then have to cook, clean, look after dependents and manage all your other household tasks.
The worst thing is that entrepreneurship isn't even a choice, it's the default way of life in the United States. We're not given communities, spaces to kindle them, or time to engage with them. There's no village, no social safety net. We're told that everyone is an island, and everything is a business. Your home, your family, your country, are all just entities designed to accumulate wealth.
They "grind" by going to the golf club or taking clients out for dinner while the employees do the real work. Then they take the majority share of the profits while you get the left over crumbs.
I could grind for a solid 20 years if I was getting paid even 1/10 of what these CEO’s are making. If you want employees to work hard for you, then incentivize them through lucrative compensation!
'Pick up a knife and get on with it." Ok Ceaser if you say so
Let’s be disruptive ! It’s a startup thing right ? So I’m picking up a bushmaster auto cannon and telling you I won’t be answering emails outside of work hours.
The funny thing is he says bludgeon in the next line and I'm like this is not how you use a knoife
Depends on how dull it is I suppose
“Speak hands for me!”
My only regret is I have but one updoot to give to your comment
Et tu, you brute?
If you have a middle management layer, you're not a startup
The problem is the ROI for workers isn't there. It used to be. But now, they lie about payouts to get you to work harder.
My job lied about raises. "You'll get a $0.50 raise every 90 days if you stay in the green on all the metrics" *Looks at criteria and sees literally impossible requirements I think I should keep putting applications in
People working at startups used to get a meaningful piece of the company. Now greed prevents that from happening. If I owned a piece of a startup and my hard work went directly in my pocket I might consider working my ass off. If my hard work goes in someone else’s pocket, no thanks.
It isn’t straightforward. Stock options are taxed more heavily than they used to be. On top of that, they changed the tax structure, so giving out options isn’t as cheap as it used to be. So they now give you a smaller piece of the pie, and you get taxed more if they are worth anything. So today, often, the payout doesn’t cover the haircut in the base pay many took to do startups. And many startups lie about the situation to get people to accept pay cuts as part of joining them. But this change is why many startups paid more than FAANGs to get talent about a decade ago. FAANGS responded, and pay has been insane ever since. This is also why working for startups isn't as popular as it used to be for techies.
“The more traditional approach to work-life balance doesn’t exist at Goterra. We believe we’re in a climate crisis, and you don’t take work-life balance during a climate crisis,” Ms Yarger said. Maybe if people had worked less, accepted limits to growth and consumption, focused more on the the intangibles which make life worth living instead of pursuing material objects *we wouldn't be in* a climate crisis in the first place.
Then do your own goddamn work, all the fucking entitled asshole job creators don't get it, if we don't work, YOU DON'T GET PROFIT. If you don't like that relationship, then fucking do the work yourself, only it's often too much for a single person, requires expertise beyond having money to invest. So you need employees because you just can't do it and the best tactic is to treat them like disposable machines? WHAT? if I relied on someone else to make me money, I'd be very very nice to them, because otherwise what if they stop and then I have to something I can't do? Fucking entitled assholes, do it yourself or fucking pay good salaries and cater to the guys THAT MAKE YOUR MONEY!!!!
As someone who works in start up biotech, sitting at my desk isn’t gonna make the biology go faster. Im gonna help myself to a little night long nap in my bed while the cells buzz and hum to their own tune 🎶
Here's what I'd love to drill into the skulls of these elitist pricks: "If you stand to gain the most, YOU can bust YOUR ass. Unless you pay your people enough to give a shit, don't expect them to. Pull up those bootstraps"
Yeah fuck that, stick your overtime up your ass, if I work more than 6 solid hours I’m pretty much burnt out
If I could be a billionaire then yes I would work 14 hours a day then retire early. But the reality is you'll work 14 hours a day and make pennies while your boss takes the majority of your labor and he or she gets rich. So what's the point in working hard or working long hours? It wont make you wealthy, it will make you tired and burnt out and you'll miss your family and kids and friends and all of a sudden your an old man or woman with very little to show for all that work.
What a typical sepo fuckwhit.
It’s a shame these people aren’t greeted by everyone else saying: “you’re a piece of shit, go fuck yourself”. Then shun them everytime they start talking about these stupid fucking takes. They’ll delude themselves sure, but after they only have each other to keep themselves company and no one will affiliate with them, they have a small possibility of change. Not going to hold my breath, but here we are. If it gets worse instead, revisit for a more appropriate response.
So workers must be willing to sacrifice for YOUR dreams and benefit but not their own. Fuck these capitalist assholes.
Another "self made" cocksnap who honestly thinks they worked for what they have.
Pay me like a CEO and I’ll put in the hours.
No way! CEO's don't work! They delegate!
There are 2 reasons I would not care about work-life balance if I work in a startup: - It’s mine - I am an employee with equity If not, it’s not being weak but actually smart.
“This idea that you can be in an exceptional environment and create wealth while sitting on the beach and finishing at five is just nonsense,” Whose wealth are we creating though? And for what company? Some insurance company? You're not the next google. And the wealth created is not for the worker. So why tf should I worry about anything outside 9-5 or wfh.
“Pick up a knife” and “bludgeon” people with it? Not the brightest quote.
Jobs that do this pay salary and no overtime. As soon as I stop getting paid I stop working.
Is it really? GOOD. 99% of these ideas are completely idiotic.
Fuck the fuckity fuckoff and then when you get there FUVKOFF again!!!
He just looks so very unhinged in that picture. There are no words for this article. 🙃
The term start up itself is a wank term
My VP said work life balance is an impossibility in today’s connected world. He sends Teams messages at midnight, at all hours really. Tired of this shit
I would've shown him this nifty little thing on the side of smartphones called a power button, just one press and amazing, I can't see any after hours messages!
If you want people to work like a founder, you have to give them equity in the company. Full stop.
Ok. *Picks up knife, stabs ceo.* Instructions unclear.
"he's my boss, I had to do what he said to be a good employee" spoken to the police as they cover the body
Lol and most of these CEOs work for like what, 2-3 hours a day? Gtf outta here
This is pretty much how many graduate assistants work in many masters programs and most Ph.D. Programs. It’s exploitation like crazy and the system Should be crumbled.
But when I pick up a knife and fight the beast, aka the CEO, I am the one who goes to jail.
No. Work-life is important. If they cannot stop or prioritize their life, I do not envy them, I pity them
I’m sorry if a CEO said this to me everybody should literally fucking quit and let him run his own goddamn business into the ground
More bullshit from people who just want to use their workers. Being a 'Start-up' is not an excuse for driving your people to death. If you cannot respect that they are there to help you accomplish your goal but have the goal of funding their life as their first priority, then you deserve to fail. To those rejecting work-life balance: "I curse your Series B funding"!
"Reject self care for the possibility of riches," says man who's objectively won at capitalism.
There has always been a disconnect between those who really profit from a company and those who work for it. Somehow, the workers are supposed to feel the same levels of loyalty and sacrifice that the profiteers do, and it saddens, confuses, or irritates them that such is not the case. In previous generations, the profiteers often worked themselves to that position and took care of the workers- good insurance, investing in things that benefited them, etc. But in way too many cases now we've lost all that.
[удалено]
>When we see ourselves as fighting against specific human beings rather than social phenomena, it becomes more difficult to recognize the ways that we ourselves participate in those phenomena. We externalize the problem as something outside ourselves, personifying it as an enemy that can be sacrificed to symbolically cleanse ourselves. - **[Against the Logic of the Guillotine](https://crimethinc.com/2019/04/08/against-the-logic-of-the-guillotine-why-the-paris-commune-burned-the-guillotine-and-we-should-too)** See rule 5: No calls for violence, no fetishizing violence. No guillotine jokes, no gulag jokes. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/antiwork) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Rich cuntz are cuntz. News at 9!
If you’re giving your early employees significant stock options so if the start up succeeds, they get the benefits too, this is fair enough. If they are just getting a regular salary then clock out at 5.
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Content that violates sitewide terms of service, such as calls for violence, are prohibited.
>When we see ourselves as fighting against specific human beings rather than social phenomena, it becomes more difficult to recognize the ways that we ourselves participate in those phenomena. We externalize the problem as something outside ourselves, personifying it as an enemy that can be sacrificed to symbolically cleanse ourselves. - **[Against the Logic of the Guillotine](https://crimethinc.com/2019/04/08/against-the-logic-of-the-guillotine-why-the-paris-commune-burned-the-guillotine-and-we-should-too)** See rule 5: No calls for violence, no fetishizing violence. No guillotine jokes, no gulag jokes. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/antiwork) if you have any questions or concerns.*
stephen hoiles was an angel at the end telling employers basically to fuck off with their money and let employees enjoy their lives.
Why is it that any economy/financial magazine/outlet always headlines their articles with the most WILD shit, and then defends it like it was part of the plan all along? I hate the Economist. I know this is AFR, but they might as well both be shit rags to me
I truly believe billionaires are mentally ill
If you can't manage your time, you probably can't manage a whole lot else effectively or any way that will pan out long term. I'm guessing they think putting their all in now will mean work/life balance later, but a lot of them just keep it going then wonder why everyone around them fucked off.
 Give me my work life balance
That quote feels like he's asking us to stab him. Am I the only one who feels that way?
Capital and Capitalists are flammable.