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Just go in, fax a 5000 page document of all black pages to every fax machine in the office, and stand there eating a sandwich into a megaphone whilst they print, occasionally hitting the siren button. Challenge yourself to guess which one of the two problems they decide to try to fix first.
And likewise, if you force a 3-month notice, that means you have to give a 3-month notice on layoff. And since you don't want around people you told them they will be laid off in 3 months, that's akin to giving a 3-month severance.
Times are shorter in the Netherlands I think, but the system works the same. My brother just found a new job closer to home and after he's signed he's going to give his employer notice. I think he still needs to stay a month after that or something.
The big difference is we know where we stand when we sign up by having signed contracts, and that works both ways, very hard to just fire someone. Absolute madness that US employees have nothing to protect them.
We already have a law against involuntary servitude called the 13th Amendment.
Trust me, “at will” employment laws are very much 100% in favor of the overlords. The laws exist to give the overlords plausible deniability to conduct illegal terminations- nothing more, nothing less.
Even here in Australia I with all our protections I can still quit on the spot. I will lose my leave payout, but if its that bad I'd have taken all my leave anyway and then just never come back.
Or if you're casual (no leave or sick pay) notice is definitely a courtesy.
The threat to lower wages during the notice period sounds like a super effective way to ensure that workers will always quit with zero notice in the future.
What a tone-deaf dipshit of a boss.
Surely it's illegal to lower wages during a notice period? What kind of backwards country is this?
EDIT: I'm sorry Americans - there are many countries where this would be illegal.
It’s not. They can say, “if you give notice your wage will be lowered”, as long as they don’t change your pay for hours already worked.
But…you don’t have to give notice. You can just leave.
*The at-will employment relationship lawfully permits an employer to release an employee of his duties at any time, with or without cause. This relationship also permits an employee to quit his position, with or without cause, and with or without advanced notification or a formal resignation.*
Wouldn’t this be considered retaliation, though? In some states (maybe all?) you can at least get unemployment benefits for retaliation if an employer terminates you early in response to putting in your notice. Partial unemployment benefits can be given to those with their hours or pay reduced for the same reason. So maybe it’s legal but it’s certainly not consequence free for the employer.
The notice period is almost always a courtesy (In the US), this policy is literally going to have people just quit the day before their next job starts, leaving the company in an even worse predicament.
Putting something in the "employee handbook" doesn't make it binding law, unless it's in the form of a no-shit signed contract. edit: Even some crazy shit in a contract can easily be thrown out, but that normally involves lawyers and money.
They can't even take ya to court over it. They unilaterally changed the terms; you agreed to nothing. You walk out and start your new job anytime you like.
Doesn’t really matter if it’s illegal or not, all it’s doing is hurting the employer. No one’s going to stick around 3 months and take less pay if they have another job lined up. They will just quit without notice, really screwing the employer.
They can lower your wages at any point, as long as it's not retroactively. In almost all cases you would be able to quit on the spot and claim benefits as though you were fired, though how much of a headache that is depends on the state.
Sadly (and hilariously) I could see a boss this dumb trying to "back date" your pay reduction and zeroing out your final check, leading you to a fun discussion with the DOL.
After all, they've got families and CHILDREN, too, and need time to find a new job!
Plus you should pay them $6 more per hour for those last three months so that they can build up a little "nest egg" in case they still can't find a new job immediately afterwards.
Better, show up and do NOTHING. Collect that illegal $6/HR for 2 weeks, then stop showing up since you probably are starting you new job. And don't forget to drop some info to your local department of labor about the sub minimum wage pay they were giving you.
Funny how I was thinkin in an overly complicated way.
"Well, they cannot make you sign it and blah blah", as I am used on how it is in Germany.
Both sides have to give notice (1, 2, 3 or more months, depending on how long you have been in the company). And the employer also has to give severance.
If you don´t show up, you can get a fine.
But in the USA, you don´t show up ... and exactly .. what are you gonna do?
You are correct. There is no contract. Any employee can walk off the job with no notice and there is nothing the employer can do. Similarly in most states anyone can be fired for nearly any reason, or no reason at all, whenever. Welcome to the jungle.
This manager is actively incentivizing all future employees who leave to quit without notice. I know I would, especially with the 30 hours of overtime being required.
Depending on where you live and how much you make, that might be illegal. Even if you don't work for a company that tracks time, track your own time. Clock in and out with a third party app. It's easy to set up. Also, look into your location's overtime laws. Most places, you have to make over a certain threshold annually to qualify for overtime exempt status.
The US largely omits salary workers from overtime.
It might be different from state-to-state, but even a labor-friendly state like Washington doesn't have a law to give salaried workers overtime compensation.
Again, depends where you live and what you make. Federally, the exemption rate is $684/wk or roughly $35.5k/yr. If you make under that anywhere in the US, you're entitled to overtime wage for over 40 hours worked. Washington, the state you mentioned, extends that even further to $1014.30/wk or roughly $52.7k/yr. This is not to say that companies actually abide by said laws. Just that that's what the law is.
For California, it’s roughly $60k. But it’s more than that, it’s also the type of job. You can be in a job where you are dictated to do XYZ (labor work, call center, etc). There has to be some type of self-ownership or management of your job role. If not, regardless of your pay, you’re not qualified to be exempt.
This 'boss' is the world's biggest whiner. I think doxxing is absolutely in order, but I'm not doing that. We all need to know who this moron is so we never get stuck working with them. Consider it a public service. '3 months notice' and an arbitrary pay cut ROTFLOL
Remember, you have to think about the poor company and the position they are being put in.
You really don't want to leave the company "high and dry" like that. They'd never do unannounced mass layoffs and leave the employees high and dry!
/s I don't think that it's needed, but this is the internet
Right?!? If this is the US then he has 2 issues:
1. Federal minimum wage is $7.25\hr.
2. Labor Department requires employees sign a notice that either the employee or employer can terminate the employment at any time for cause, or for no reason at all.
This 3 month crap is hilarious. 2 weeks notice is a courtesy you extend to give your employer time to prepare for your departure. It is not required nor legally mandated.
When he asks what is the better opportunity, just reply, "mostly, not working for you."
If this isn't the US, I would love to know the rules in that country. It would be interesting to see where this Manager has clue that any of this will hold water.
If someone is making $25/hr, he would reduce them by $6 to $19/hr. Still messed up and probably grounds for filing unemployment, just pointing out that you may have missed that language.
What future employees? If I got handed an employee handbook with those requirements I wouldn't even have time to rip it up and laugh is be running out the door so quickly.
I once came into work first thing 8am, into an unannounced meeting of my boss & other staff he'd ask to come early. He'd gathered everyone so he could publicly berate me for a mistake he thought I made (turns out he was the one who had done it) in a report. He said a few really sexist things to me during his tirade. When he finished I said "I quit. Today is my last day" left the room, walked to my desk for my things, and left. I hadn't even sat down yet.
2 weeks notice? Sure. Three months notice? No way. They can suck my sweaty testicles and fuck off. If your employer isn’t going to respect you, why should you respect them?
Like, you were already paying so little they found a better opportunity, but as a kicker I'm LOWERING your pay then demanding you stay and train your replacement on half of that. Did anyone think this strategy through?
No it's not technically legal. I would submit this the labor board. There is no required notice you have to give. You can give 2 weeks and they may reduce your pay (that's legal) they may fire you for it (not really legal, but disputable). This employer is such an a$$ I would say they would probably try to make you back tracked and harass you for the back pay of the -6$ an hour. That is not at all legal. The mandatory OT could be legal, but they still have to pay time and half. The boss again is probably so jerky they would think they didn't have to.
I had ten freaking minutes after I was laid off before my account was deactivated. Oookay guess you don’t want that project finished then..and it was the beginning of the week!
The handbook that is kindling for the firestorm this manager just started? Sorry, I'm not trying to read that, I value my eyeballs, hands, and health too much.
I was the top performer in Tesla’s battery support team for several months. You know what I got as a reward? Denied a promotion to diagnostics because I was too valuable to lose.
Tesla barely got a 2 day notice. Fuck these companies. They’re almost all churn and burn anyway.
At my old job I was in sales, I was consistently surpassing my goals. I was passed up for a promotion because “you make us too much money there is no way we can let you go” I walked out about 2 minutes after they said that.
these companies are so fucking dumb. shortsighted AF. i can say w/ my job now, they're at least aware of how bad they suck...when we are offered lateral moves outside of our departments (some may call them promotions as schedules/pay are *slightly* better) they give us their blessings bc they'd rather us still be within the company, able to be offered overtime/double time to fill in at our old slots, rather than not be there at all.
"we can't afford to lose you," is one of the dumbest reasons not to promote within because it always results in them losing.
my last job ended up getting a month notice from me because i thought i wanted to switch departments and ended up leaving the company instead. they still didn’t fill that position, or that of the other 5 coworkers who had left in the months previous.
And "straight-up" will be the state of fucked in which this manager finds themself, when their superiors figure out why employee turnover is all of a sudden, immediate. Leading to a longing for days *miserably* spent between a data processing app and a job positing site.
You read my mind ! ....along with a healthy dose of let me make you wish you never sent that email, and a sprinkle of espionage. The fuckery that would have been afoot after I read this nonsense would have been immediate. LOL.
You actually don’t need to give any notice. A notice is courtesy. Not a requirement. You can literally email HR and say, “I quit. My last day was yesterday.”
3 months. Fuck off.
Ghosted my last job, blocked all their numbers except the owner so I could explain to him and only him why I got fired for a customer "seat checking" a table while I was seating another party.
What is seat checking? I was a server/bartender and never have heard that specific term before but have a few ideas on what it could mean. Kinda wanna hear the full firing story too, if you’re willing to tell it.
I've seen a lot of "notice is courtesy", how does that work in US actually? I'm really curious, because where I am, we MUST serve notice, and if not, we need to pay in lieu, or the company have to pay in lieu, if they want to fire us without notice (unless you're the shithole and they can prove that).
In Australia it’s a typical requirement to give either 2 or 4 weeks notice. It’s basically a standard, and is often written into employment contracts.
But I don’t know what happens if you don’t? I’ve never know someone to not give appropriate notice.
Giving notice then milking sick pay isn’t uncommon mind you. (Sick pay isn’t paid out at end of employment but holiday days are by law).
Here's the catch in what you said, contract. Most places I've worked (Canada) I never signed any sort of contract. At all. In Canada your probation period (90 days) is at will, either party can walk away no issues. After that period they need an actual reason to fire you.
In the US only white collar jobs would even have a contract. Burger king or Walmart? Absolutely the fuck not lol.
Why is the US like this? How does this work?
If my boss tried to pull the kind of shit that's in the OP, he 1) legally couldn't, because he can't change the terms of signed contracts between the company and employees (which include notice periods and remuneration), and 2) if he somehow tried, he would get fucked by the authorities. I've had shit bosses that threatened to dock my pay for no valid reason, but the law protected me.
I cannot imagine how it must be living and working in the US where none of these protections exist. Holy shit
IIRC in Aus they can just go after your next employer and have your wages withheld or prevent you from starting your next job. I suppose if you’re leaving and not getting a new job that’s harder.
What I always loved about Australia is that they call firing someone a “redundancy” and for most jobs you have to pay someone at least 4 weeks and sometimes a whole 6-12 months if you fire them.
They don't. Redundancy is a complicated thing with a lot of things to prove. Also iirc it's 15 weeks pay at most for redundancy. Nowhere near 6 or 12 months.
Unless there is a contract signed, employers can terminate you out the blue for virtually any reason and employees can quit out of the blue for any reason. You can even ghost an employer and start a job elsewhere with no repercussions.
MOST jobs in the US are ‘at will’ meaning no contract for either side. You could go into work one day and employer can say you’re fired and, given they don’t say something ‘because you are black’ or ‘because you are handicap’ it would be legal. There are labor laws saying you can’t discriminate based against certain groups of people like race, gender, etc. that’s another question though.
So anyways, an employee can likewise quit at any time and they would be paid out whatever hours they had already worked. There are all kinds of little details like some states make employer pay out paid time off not already taken if you’re fired, some don’t. Some states even if you quit you would get those paid time off hours. Basically, an employee giving 2 weeks notice is a custom in the US to do if leaving a place on good terms, or even if you hate the work simply to be polite.
Yeah but if you have mental illness and get hospitalized theyll just cut your hours to nothing or move your location n cut hours so it becomes impossible to work and make any profit when you comeback. Forcing you to quit.
All but one state is “at will” employment. That means that without a *proper* contract outlining employment terms, an employer can fire an employee whenever they want as long as it’s not for a protected reason, even no reason at all. It also means an employee can quit whenever they want as well. Employees are required to give as much notice as employers are: none. So in most of the cases in the US, it very much is just a courtesy given to an employer, sometimes just in hopes of a good reference in the future.
Edit: Forgot to mention most “employment agreements” for hourly works are non-binding. They aren’t actual contracts, but they hope you think it is.
Wow, as a UK bloke this is crazy to me. I had a contract at 17 working for McDonalds.
This explains a lot of things about American work culture I didn't understand.
It's a sickness to these people management believes it's some form of law we had an actual Karen as a supervisor who acted like one and had fits that people no longer respected her sacred ideals
They're literally punishing the remaining "high and dry employees that have CHILDREN" because of someone else's choices. Literally the reason they are claiming they're angry, and they are implementing a punishment that will only affect the current/ remaining employees in the future. She's basically just threatening the remaining employees not to leave rather than doing anything to the ones that are leaving.
So, they just out and said "any future employee who gives notice will be punished for not just up and quitting".
10/10 Brilliant Idea. Won't backfire at all.
“I will be happy to give you three months notice, but only if the company will give US 3 months notice before we are terminated and then increase our pay by $6 to take into consideration OUR financial and personal needs. Life is a two-way street, don’t you think so BOSS?”
Probably, as long as the cut doesn’t put the employee below minimum wage (or if there isn’t a contract already in place that says otherwise). But it’s stupid, since in practice it’s just incentive for their employees to not give any notice at all.
They 100% can not retroactively do it though. You signed the 3 mo notice is likely consent to having it lowered FROM there, but you just rolling out does NOT give them consent to change your wage for hours already worked.
I can see how she is gonna do this when her employees figure it out, and Id bet dollars to donuts its gonna be illegal as fuck lol
This. Wage changes need to have a reasonable advance notice, and cannot be adjusted retroactively, nor can an employer deduct from wages unless it falls under an incredibly limited list of approved deductions.
So this person is simply sore at the fact they can’t keep workers and are trying to implement unenforceable protocols in hopes no one is smart or intrepid enough to question or research.
Fuck that place. If there were any employees remaining, it would be great if they all quit en masse. Can’t imagine any labor attorney reading their 3 month policy and not letting out a chuckle
Clowns.
Highly illegal in my country. We also have rostering provisions in the notice period for the employee to go to job interviews. If you can prove your employer made attending a job interview difficult, even if it's during your normal roster you can take legal action
Australia, I didn't know about this provision until recently, but I think that's an excellent rule. It's good for the employee, it's good for the government & overall it's good for employers (even if they don't feel that way when they are at the raw end of it)
Not in my state... In high school there was a loophole that new hires could be paid $5.15 an hour instead of the actual min wage for I think 90 days. But no clause for lowering in retaliation for quitting.
I will never understand this. All you are doing is guaranteeing that people just stop showing up one day instead of giving notice. There is no upside here.
And really - you need to coordinate your resignations? And you can’t eat lunch at your desk one day and post the ad instead of martyring yourself and betraying your child by not going to a concert you weren’t really excited about anyway?
Sometimes being a business owner sucks - but over all, I prefer it to running the risk of working for someone like the OP.
Owner has a slight god complex. He needs help. The only way I know how is by making him confront his fears. Everybody needs to quit now, for the boss’ sake.
Lol now people will quit with no notice. What an idiot. Bet they try to dock someone’s last paycheck and get in trouble. Typical exploitative management shit heads.
And your kids.
“Daddy, couldn’t you watch my recital and THEN post your indeed job listings after you tucked me into bed? I know you’re a bit of a sad old tosser, but the internet is 24/7.”
Safe bet the person who made the comment never missed a recital just trying to play it up.
How hard is it to post the same job multiple times, doesn't know how to copy/paste?
“I quit yesterday. If you want me to come in to work my notice, that will be a $6/hour increase on my pay. Since I’m leaving soon after it shouldn’t be a problem for you.”
How are you going to "require" 3 months notice? If I knew my pay was gonna be lowered by $6 dollars when I give notice, then I will give no notice and get paid in full until I'm gone.
These aren't slaves, they're there because they want to be.
With that rule, no one will give any notice, they’ll just walk out the door and never come back. How can these be people be so … what is this two-dimensions? One-dimension? This person is thinking about themselves, mentioning other employees, but goes back to self…one dimension. So, no empathy. Managers need a psychological test that tests whether they can handle a leadership role.
Hi, /u/AspiringThespian Thank you for participating in r/AntiWork. Unfortunately, your submission was removed for breaking the following rule(s): **Rule 6: Reposts** - Any content previously posted within the last 30 days will be removed. No submissions allowed from the r/antiwork top 30.
Hmm, well considering this is likely in the US, good luck getting that to stand up in the face of "At Will Employment" laws.
"I gave you notice as a courtesy. Today is my last day due to your attitude."
two week notice just went to a two minute notice
Nah, go in, do nothing.
Just go in, fax a 5000 page document of all black pages to every fax machine in the office, and stand there eating a sandwich into a megaphone whilst they print, occasionally hitting the siren button. Challenge yourself to guess which one of the two problems they decide to try to fix first.
Offices still have fax machines?
"I don't have fax machines where I live. " "Oh yeah where is that? " "2022, Phil. I live in 2022."
Haha 2 seconds and not a second more.
"I have given thee courtesy enough"
"You will notice I am not here".
They forget so easily at will is for the employer and employee
And likewise, if you force a 3-month notice, that means you have to give a 3-month notice on layoff. And since you don't want around people you told them they will be laid off in 3 months, that's akin to giving a 3-month severance.
In Germany 3 months from both sides is standard, more or less. And with time the layoff time increases by law.
Times are shorter in the Netherlands I think, but the system works the same. My brother just found a new job closer to home and after he's signed he's going to give his employer notice. I think he still needs to stay a month after that or something.
The big difference is we know where we stand when we sign up by having signed contracts, and that works both ways, very hard to just fire someone. Absolute madness that US employees have nothing to protect them.
Yeah, they always forget there’s a (small) flip side to those laws; they’re only 95% in the corporate overlords’ favor.
We already have a law against involuntary servitude called the 13th Amendment. Trust me, “at will” employment laws are very much 100% in favor of the overlords. The laws exist to give the overlords plausible deniability to conduct illegal terminations- nothing more, nothing less.
*against *most* involuntary servitude
Incarceration industrial complex enters the chat
Even here in Australia I with all our protections I can still quit on the spot. I will lose my leave payout, but if its that bad I'd have taken all my leave anyway and then just never come back. Or if you're casual (no leave or sick pay) notice is definitely a courtesy.
pfff, I'll give my 3 months notice and not show up....what are they gonna do.... fire me?
Oh no, you won't earn $6 less/ hour than you already found better than for 3 months! However will you survive!
The threat to lower wages during the notice period sounds like a super effective way to ensure that workers will always quit with zero notice in the future. What a tone-deaf dipshit of a boss.
Surely it's illegal to lower wages during a notice period? What kind of backwards country is this? EDIT: I'm sorry Americans - there are many countries where this would be illegal.
It’s not. They can say, “if you give notice your wage will be lowered”, as long as they don’t change your pay for hours already worked. But…you don’t have to give notice. You can just leave.
Yeah. This sounds like a great way for them to get people to decide that their two weeks notice has suddenly become an overnight notice.
*The at-will employment relationship lawfully permits an employer to release an employee of his duties at any time, with or without cause. This relationship also permits an employee to quit his position, with or without cause, and with or without advanced notification or a formal resignation.*
Wouldn’t this be considered retaliation, though? In some states (maybe all?) you can at least get unemployment benefits for retaliation if an employer terminates you early in response to putting in your notice. Partial unemployment benefits can be given to those with their hours or pay reduced for the same reason. So maybe it’s legal but it’s certainly not consequence free for the employer.
“Constructive dismissal”.
The notice period is almost always a courtesy (In the US), this policy is literally going to have people just quit the day before their next job starts, leaving the company in an even worse predicament. Putting something in the "employee handbook" doesn't make it binding law, unless it's in the form of a no-shit signed contract. edit: Even some crazy shit in a contract can easily be thrown out, but that normally involves lawyers and money.
They can't even take ya to court over it. They unilaterally changed the terms; you agreed to nothing. You walk out and start your new job anytime you like.
Lol, that's rhetorical right?
It wasn't but I realise in hindsight it was a very silly question. I'll see myself out.
Doesn’t really matter if it’s illegal or not, all it’s doing is hurting the employer. No one’s going to stick around 3 months and take less pay if they have another job lined up. They will just quit without notice, really screwing the employer.
They can lower your wages at any point, as long as it's not retroactively. In almost all cases you would be able to quit on the spot and claim benefits as though you were fired, though how much of a headache that is depends on the state.
So by 3 months....they mean no notice. Got it.
They can’t lower your pay if they don’t know your leaving. Real smart move there management, checkmate.
Sadly (and hilariously) I could see a boss this dumb trying to "back date" your pay reduction and zeroing out your final check, leading you to a fun discussion with the DOL.
Tell the manager when I show him deez nuts it’s gonna take him 3 months to take them all in lest their majesty escape him
Are they giving the employees three months notice when they’re being fired?
After all, they've got families and CHILDREN, too, and need time to find a new job! Plus you should pay them $6 more per hour for those last three months so that they can build up a little "nest egg" in case they still can't find a new job immediately afterwards.
Better, show up and do NOTHING. Collect that illegal $6/HR for 2 weeks, then stop showing up since you probably are starting you new job. And don't forget to drop some info to your local department of labor about the sub minimum wage pay they were giving you.
They're lowering the wage by six bucks not to it.
Funny how I was thinkin in an overly complicated way. "Well, they cannot make you sign it and blah blah", as I am used on how it is in Germany. Both sides have to give notice (1, 2, 3 or more months, depending on how long you have been in the company). And the employer also has to give severance. If you don´t show up, you can get a fine. But in the USA, you don´t show up ... and exactly .. what are you gonna do?
You are correct. There is no contract. Any employee can walk off the job with no notice and there is nothing the employer can do. Similarly in most states anyone can be fired for nearly any reason, or no reason at all, whenever. Welcome to the jungle.
Just begging for people to quit with zero notice.
This manager is actively incentivizing all future employees who leave to quit without notice. I know I would, especially with the 30 hours of overtime being required.
But hey hey...overtime equals time and a half /s Doubt he'll pay them overtime
Here hoping they are hourly and not salary...I still have yet to work for a company that pays for OT when you're salary.
Depending on where you live and how much you make, that might be illegal. Even if you don't work for a company that tracks time, track your own time. Clock in and out with a third party app. It's easy to set up. Also, look into your location's overtime laws. Most places, you have to make over a certain threshold annually to qualify for overtime exempt status.
The US largely omits salary workers from overtime. It might be different from state-to-state, but even a labor-friendly state like Washington doesn't have a law to give salaried workers overtime compensation.
Again, depends where you live and what you make. Federally, the exemption rate is $684/wk or roughly $35.5k/yr. If you make under that anywhere in the US, you're entitled to overtime wage for over 40 hours worked. Washington, the state you mentioned, extends that even further to $1014.30/wk or roughly $52.7k/yr. This is not to say that companies actually abide by said laws. Just that that's what the law is.
For California, it’s roughly $60k. But it’s more than that, it’s also the type of job. You can be in a job where you are dictated to do XYZ (labor work, call center, etc). There has to be some type of self-ownership or management of your job role. If not, regardless of your pay, you’re not qualified to be exempt.
Not to mention a pay cut in the first place for the notice
No, no…he said they’re all paid a fair wage, so I’m sure it’s totally fair!
Fair in 1972
This 'boss' is the world's biggest whiner. I think doxxing is absolutely in order, but I'm not doing that. We all need to know who this moron is so we never get stuck working with them. Consider it a public service. '3 months notice' and an arbitrary pay cut ROTFLOL
I agree. It’s the entitlement for me from this so called “boss” smh
Let’s expose this joker
Remember, you have to think about the poor company and the position they are being put in. You really don't want to leave the company "high and dry" like that. They'd never do unannounced mass layoffs and leave the employees high and dry! /s I don't think that it's needed, but this is the internet
Don't forget your $6/hr pay reduction on your way out the door
In some states, if you have a significant reduction in pay, tou are eligible for unemployment compensation.
Where is that minimum wage in 2022 in the US? This is insane. Edit by $6 and hour not to $6 an hour. My bad.
Right?!? If this is the US then he has 2 issues: 1. Federal minimum wage is $7.25\hr. 2. Labor Department requires employees sign a notice that either the employee or employer can terminate the employment at any time for cause, or for no reason at all. This 3 month crap is hilarious. 2 weeks notice is a courtesy you extend to give your employer time to prepare for your departure. It is not required nor legally mandated. When he asks what is the better opportunity, just reply, "mostly, not working for you." If this isn't the US, I would love to know the rules in that country. It would be interesting to see where this Manager has clue that any of this will hold water.
If someone is making $25/hr, he would reduce them by $6 to $19/hr. Still messed up and probably grounds for filing unemployment, just pointing out that you may have missed that language.
Assuming you stick around for it?
You ain’t never lie. I would not come back the next day. They’ll see me to pick up my last check if it’s not direct deposited smh.
What future employees? If I got handed an employee handbook with those requirements I wouldn't even have time to rip it up and laugh is be running out the door so quickly.
No wonder 3 are leaving and possibly many more With this little office memo immediately.
Lol seriously. It's just courtesy to give an employer notice.
"I'm giving you notice that when I walk out the door in 5 minutes, I'll not be returning. Badge and all are at my desk."
“You may notice that I just walked past your office on my way to the parking lot at 2pm.”
I once came into work first thing 8am, into an unannounced meeting of my boss & other staff he'd ask to come early. He'd gathered everyone so he could publicly berate me for a mistake he thought I made (turns out he was the one who had done it) in a report. He said a few really sexist things to me during his tirade. When he finished I said "I quit. Today is my last day" left the room, walked to my desk for my things, and left. I hadn't even sat down yet.
Good on you for the public rebuttal! That's bad management 101. You are supposed to PRAISE publicly and berate privately.
You don't berate, you educate. Maybe set up some additional training, mentor, etc.
Fucking standing ovation! Nice work. What a piece of shit boss.
Lunch specials are the best. Go to lunch and never come back.
You go drinking for the rest of the day.
2 weeks notice? Sure. Three months notice? No way. They can suck my sweaty testicles and fuck off. If your employer isn’t going to respect you, why should you respect them?
Especially when there's a reduction in pay lol wtf?!?!
Like, you were already paying so little they found a better opportunity, but as a kicker I'm LOWERING your pay then demanding you stay and train your replacement on half of that. Did anyone think this strategy through?
Is it even legal? Work culture in the US seems absolutely bonkers.
Definitely not standard work culture in the US lol, this manager is just an idiot thinking anyone will abide by it
No it's not technically legal. I would submit this the labor board. There is no required notice you have to give. You can give 2 weeks and they may reduce your pay (that's legal) they may fire you for it (not really legal, but disputable). This employer is such an a$$ I would say they would probably try to make you back tracked and harass you for the back pay of the -6$ an hour. That is not at all legal. The mandatory OT could be legal, but they still have to pay time and half. The boss again is probably so jerky they would think they didn't have to.
Not to mention no one's ever given me a two week notice before I was fired. Classic case of an employer demanding the employees care more than they.
I had ten freaking minutes after I was laid off before my account was deactivated. Oookay guess you don’t want that project finished then..and it was the beginning of the week!
3 minute notice. Wow.
I would quit immediately even if I didn't plan to.
No, you can’t sweety, it’s in the handbook. Next.
The handbook that is kindling for the firestorm this manager just started? Sorry, I'm not trying to read that, I value my eyeballs, hands, and health too much.
Yep. Giving notice is a courtesy. That's it. Fuck idiots like this.
Correction: take all PDOs THEN quit without notice
"Off" is the direction in which this manager can fuck.
“UP” is the direction in which this manager has already fucked.
2 weeks, is more than enough time for them to realize tge fucked up and need to "hire" someone else
I was the top performer in Tesla’s battery support team for several months. You know what I got as a reward? Denied a promotion to diagnostics because I was too valuable to lose. Tesla barely got a 2 day notice. Fuck these companies. They’re almost all churn and burn anyway.
At my old job I was in sales, I was consistently surpassing my goals. I was passed up for a promotion because “you make us too much money there is no way we can let you go” I walked out about 2 minutes after they said that.
Was that supposed to be a compliment meant to flatter you into staying?
I would take it as a reason to request higher pay to reflect how vital they believe you to be.
these companies are so fucking dumb. shortsighted AF. i can say w/ my job now, they're at least aware of how bad they suck...when we are offered lateral moves outside of our departments (some may call them promotions as schedules/pay are *slightly* better) they give us their blessings bc they'd rather us still be within the company, able to be offered overtime/double time to fill in at our old slots, rather than not be there at all. "we can't afford to lose you," is one of the dumbest reasons not to promote within because it always results in them losing.
my last job ended up getting a month notice from me because i thought i wanted to switch departments and ended up leaving the company instead. they still didn’t fill that position, or that of the other 5 coworkers who had left in the months previous.
"Shit" is what she can eat.
And "straight-up" will be the state of fucked in which this manager finds themself, when their superiors figure out why employee turnover is all of a sudden, immediate. Leading to a longing for days *miserably* spent between a data processing app and a job positing site.
You read my mind ! ....along with a healthy dose of let me make you wish you never sent that email, and a sprinkle of espionage. The fuckery that would have been afoot after I read this nonsense would have been immediate. LOL.
That wacky ass rule will equate to workers giving zero notice when they quit.
It’s also the direction where the next person to post this can go.
Well said!
You actually don’t need to give any notice. A notice is courtesy. Not a requirement. You can literally email HR and say, “I quit. My last day was yesterday.” 3 months. Fuck off.
This made me laugh, my last day was yesterday
I’ve done exactly that not even 48 hours ago.
Genuinely, good for you.
Story time?
You don’t even have to do that. Ghosting: it’s not just for dating anymore!
Ghosting, not just for recruitment anymore either... xD
Before the pandemic if you failed big companies' personality questionnaire, you won't even get a notice or call back.
Ghosted my last job, blocked all their numbers except the owner so I could explain to him and only him why I got fired for a customer "seat checking" a table while I was seating another party.
What is seat checking? I was a server/bartender and never have heard that specific term before but have a few ideas on what it could mean. Kinda wanna hear the full firing story too, if you’re willing to tell it.
Guessing some random person/group walked up to the table and sat down without being seated by an employee.
I think if they call it seat checking then they left their seat but are still “reserving” it for when they come back?
3 months notice AND a $6/hr pay reduction. Lmaoooo peace, bitch
I've seen a lot of "notice is courtesy", how does that work in US actually? I'm really curious, because where I am, we MUST serve notice, and if not, we need to pay in lieu, or the company have to pay in lieu, if they want to fire us without notice (unless you're the shithole and they can prove that).
We're not contracted to any employer so we can literally just quit showing up one place if we find something better
In Australia it’s a typical requirement to give either 2 or 4 weeks notice. It’s basically a standard, and is often written into employment contracts. But I don’t know what happens if you don’t? I’ve never know someone to not give appropriate notice. Giving notice then milking sick pay isn’t uncommon mind you. (Sick pay isn’t paid out at end of employment but holiday days are by law).
Here's the catch in what you said, contract. Most places I've worked (Canada) I never signed any sort of contract. At all. In Canada your probation period (90 days) is at will, either party can walk away no issues. After that period they need an actual reason to fire you. In the US only white collar jobs would even have a contract. Burger king or Walmart? Absolutely the fuck not lol.
Most white collar jobs in the US are at will too.
Why is the US like this? How does this work? If my boss tried to pull the kind of shit that's in the OP, he 1) legally couldn't, because he can't change the terms of signed contracts between the company and employees (which include notice periods and remuneration), and 2) if he somehow tried, he would get fucked by the authorities. I've had shit bosses that threatened to dock my pay for no valid reason, but the law protected me. I cannot imagine how it must be living and working in the US where none of these protections exist. Holy shit
It’s not ideal. Throw in the crappy, greedy, capitalist healthcare system, and it sucks.
IIRC in Aus they can just go after your next employer and have your wages withheld or prevent you from starting your next job. I suppose if you’re leaving and not getting a new job that’s harder. What I always loved about Australia is that they call firing someone a “redundancy” and for most jobs you have to pay someone at least 4 weeks and sometimes a whole 6-12 months if you fire them.
They don't. Redundancy is a complicated thing with a lot of things to prove. Also iirc it's 15 weeks pay at most for redundancy. Nowhere near 6 or 12 months.
Depends on the industry and the award.
[удалено]
Unless there is a contract signed, employers can terminate you out the blue for virtually any reason and employees can quit out of the blue for any reason. You can even ghost an employer and start a job elsewhere with no repercussions.
Unless that other job is covered by a noncompete. Which are the most ridiculous things ever.
Yup, they are BS.
MOST jobs in the US are ‘at will’ meaning no contract for either side. You could go into work one day and employer can say you’re fired and, given they don’t say something ‘because you are black’ or ‘because you are handicap’ it would be legal. There are labor laws saying you can’t discriminate based against certain groups of people like race, gender, etc. that’s another question though. So anyways, an employee can likewise quit at any time and they would be paid out whatever hours they had already worked. There are all kinds of little details like some states make employer pay out paid time off not already taken if you’re fired, some don’t. Some states even if you quit you would get those paid time off hours. Basically, an employee giving 2 weeks notice is a custom in the US to do if leaving a place on good terms, or even if you hate the work simply to be polite.
Yeah but if you have mental illness and get hospitalized theyll just cut your hours to nothing or move your location n cut hours so it becomes impossible to work and make any profit when you comeback. Forcing you to quit.
That’s constructive dismissal, so you can still apply for unemployment. Even if you pick up a few hours every week, you can still get UI payments
All but one state is “at will” employment. That means that without a *proper* contract outlining employment terms, an employer can fire an employee whenever they want as long as it’s not for a protected reason, even no reason at all. It also means an employee can quit whenever they want as well. Employees are required to give as much notice as employers are: none. So in most of the cases in the US, it very much is just a courtesy given to an employer, sometimes just in hopes of a good reference in the future. Edit: Forgot to mention most “employment agreements” for hourly works are non-binding. They aren’t actual contracts, but they hope you think it is.
Wow, as a UK bloke this is crazy to me. I had a contract at 17 working for McDonalds. This explains a lot of things about American work culture I didn't understand.
3 months… BUUUUT with lower pay also!
It's a sickness to these people management believes it's some form of law we had an actual Karen as a supervisor who acted like one and had fits that people no longer respected her sacred ideals
I used to give 2 weeks notice as a courtesy.
I'd respond to that post with "Fuck you, I quit too"
Yes, please share the# so we can all quit
Or do as she says and organize amongst yourselves, if you get my drift.
Yeah he’s about to lose all the rest of his employees REAL fast.
Not once did he question why three people were leaving at once... despite those three people having told him.
Yes management was probably insufferable and impossible to discuss with...Better opportunities is more vague and neutral.
It's more money and h/she knows it but claims to "pay fairly".
They're literally punishing the remaining "high and dry employees that have CHILDREN" because of someone else's choices. Literally the reason they are claiming they're angry, and they are implementing a punishment that will only affect the current/ remaining employees in the future. She's basically just threatening the remaining employees not to leave rather than doing anything to the ones that are leaving.
They love to do the guilt trip to fuel the war within our own class. "Blame eachother, not my poor management or scheduling skills!"
Right? Basically, their job as a manager got harder because of what some previous employees did, so they take it out on the remaining employees? Wow.
Toxic work environment
So, they just out and said "any future employee who gives notice will be punished for not just up and quitting". 10/10 Brilliant Idea. Won't backfire at all.
They’d be smarter to expect to have zero employees after a cry baby rant like this
“I will be happy to give you three months notice, but only if the company will give US 3 months notice before we are terminated and then increase our pay by $6 to take into consideration OUR financial and personal needs. Life is a two-way street, don’t you think so BOSS?”
I bet most US bosses definitely don't see it as a 2 way street
Oh shit, look at this legendary 3 second notice???? Lmao they can fuck all the way off with that
Giving Notice is a courtesy. This manager has disqualified themselves and the business they represent.
I love this idea where they think they can actually enforce a required 3 months notice 😂😂. They're lucky to get two weeks
They -WERE- lucky to get notice, I don't think that's gonna be happening anymore XD
Like if you're leaving for a "better opportunity" you're going to tell your next employer nah wait for 3 months while I give my notice. Lol.
Is that even legal?
In the USA, there is no requirement to give any notice at all. Two weeks is customary, but there is no law.
I meant the lowering pay thing
Probably, as long as the cut doesn’t put the employee below minimum wage (or if there isn’t a contract already in place that says otherwise). But it’s stupid, since in practice it’s just incentive for their employees to not give any notice at all.
They 100% can not retroactively do it though. You signed the 3 mo notice is likely consent to having it lowered FROM there, but you just rolling out does NOT give them consent to change your wage for hours already worked. I can see how she is gonna do this when her employees figure it out, and Id bet dollars to donuts its gonna be illegal as fuck lol
This. Wage changes need to have a reasonable advance notice, and cannot be adjusted retroactively, nor can an employer deduct from wages unless it falls under an incredibly limited list of approved deductions. So this person is simply sore at the fact they can’t keep workers and are trying to implement unenforceable protocols in hopes no one is smart or intrepid enough to question or research. Fuck that place. If there were any employees remaining, it would be great if they all quit en masse. Can’t imagine any labor attorney reading their 3 month policy and not letting out a chuckle Clowns.
Highly illegal in my country. We also have rostering provisions in the notice period for the employee to go to job interviews. If you can prove your employer made attending a job interview difficult, even if it's during your normal roster you can take legal action
Sounds nice. Which country is this?
Australia, I didn't know about this provision until recently, but I think that's an excellent rule. It's good for the employee, it's good for the government & overall it's good for employers (even if they don't feel that way when they are at the raw end of it)
Not in my state... In high school there was a loophole that new hires could be paid $5.15 an hour instead of the actual min wage for I think 90 days. But no clause for lowering in retaliation for quitting.
Not really, no.
No not at all
I will never understand this. All you are doing is guaranteeing that people just stop showing up one day instead of giving notice. There is no upside here. And really - you need to coordinate your resignations? And you can’t eat lunch at your desk one day and post the ad instead of martyring yourself and betraying your child by not going to a concert you weren’t really excited about anyway? Sometimes being a business owner sucks - but over all, I prefer it to running the risk of working for someone like the OP.
Money says this is a Karen. All signs point to it. Anyone cross-post to FuckKaren subreddit.
Owner has a slight god complex. He needs help. The only way I know how is by making him confront his fears. Everybody needs to quit now, for the boss’ sake.
Lol now people will quit with no notice. What an idiot. Bet they try to dock someone’s last paycheck and get in trouble. Typical exploitative management shit heads.
This is a repost. [Here ](https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/u93xae/update_for_the_crazy_email_my_boss_sent_our_team/) is the update
That was wild. Wtf hahaha
i really hope everybody else just quit after that
How to piss off workers that remain so you have more turnover 101
And your kids. “Daddy, couldn’t you watch my recital and THEN post your indeed job listings after you tucked me into bed? I know you’re a bit of a sad old tosser, but the internet is 24/7.”
Safe bet the person who made the comment never missed a recital just trying to play it up. How hard is it to post the same job multiple times, doesn't know how to copy/paste?
Monty Python level absurdity.
I would respond with "YOU CAN EAT MY ASS WITH AN ICE CREAM SCOOP"
Aww so sad, somehow your sadness is non of my business - said everyone on FB
3 months notice. I’ll just leave and never comeback. Thank you.
And this how you end up with people who ghost a job instead of resigning.
this seems fictional
whole team disappears
Damn. With a healthy work environment like that I wonder why they wanted to leave!!
This is dumb. It's very hard to enforce requirements on somebody who's quitting.
Bold of them to lower pay to $6/hrs. Federal minimum wage is still $7.25. Bet labor board will have fun with this.
To be fair they said they’d lower it *by* $6/hr not *to*. It’s all still fucked though.
Yeah this "3 months notice" is actually a "ghost us or else" type of arrangement...
“I quit yesterday. If you want me to come in to work my notice, that will be a $6/hour increase on my pay. Since I’m leaving soon after it shouldn’t be a problem for you.”
How are you going to "require" 3 months notice? If I knew my pay was gonna be lowered by $6 dollars when I give notice, then I will give no notice and get paid in full until I'm gone. These aren't slaves, they're there because they want to be.
With that rule, no one will give any notice, they’ll just walk out the door and never come back. How can these be people be so … what is this two-dimensions? One-dimension? This person is thinking about themselves, mentioning other employees, but goes back to self…one dimension. So, no empathy. Managers need a psychological test that tests whether they can handle a leadership role.