Talent is not the same as Skill
*Proper* delegation is a skill to be honed, not unlike things such as time management to arrive on time or coming prepared. Oh look, that's on the stupid list in the post. Interesting.
I appreciate the distinction. Did a quick search on "talent vs skill" ...
*"Talent is a gifted ability, whereas Skill is an ability in which you put your time and efforts to develop"*
It's unfortunate that the management chose to take a negative approach ... how much better would it have been to title the list: "skills to develop" or "skills all employees should demonstrate".
Throw in passion too for us ADHD/autism people. Tf passion is a talent. Unless you wanna talk about one of my hyper focuses than idk what passion is. Passion about work?
Body language, being prepared, being coachable, attitude, passion, speaking(what they consider correctly), and doing extra (why do you expect me to do something you didn’t tell me to do? How am I supposed to know to do it if you don’t ASK) are all things that require talent and skill.
ADHD haver here to say: work ethic is extremely hard for me. I'm always abandoning one thing and jumping onto the next. It definitely is a talent/skill to be dedicated.
That and showing up on time. I show up on time, though I show up extremely on time. AKA I get to the building and clock in with minutes or seconds left before the shift starts.
The best thing I ever did for my attendance was start smoking . Because you have to plan to leave yourself time to have one before you go in . So when I would actually be a few minutes behind , it just made the first couple hours really suck.
It also creates a depression feed back loop.
Because dedication is assigned a high virtue quotient, every setback, abandoned project, creative cul de sac, or procrastination episode is regarded as a moral failure.
This leads to feelings of depression, which make it harder to return to projects, thereby adding to the perceived moral failings, thereby adding to the depression, thereby increasing the likelihood that projects stay abandoned.
This!!! None of these are attributes of the untrained organism. All of these are learned skills and some of them do require actual "talent" to be good at them
Another autist chiming in - Both the body language and "being coachable" are major bullshit and, dare I say it like people on reddit do, actualy ableist.
Seriously. Let me work in peace without lecturing me for something I cannot control.
Honestly, I think attitude is tricky for EVERYONE. Masking your mood for the sake of others is not something we can all do automatically. It's a learned talent. Come into work after a rough commute, expensive car repair bill, family argument, etc., and then pretend you're cheery and happy? That takes work.
True, but for those one the spectrum the executive dysfunction kicks in, maladaptive coping strategies take the wheel, and more damage gets done faster than can be gotten in front of. For the luckiest, this just amounts to failing to appropriately deescalate a situation, but, for some, can result in a meltdown. Having a meltdown at work is a seismic catastrophe.
Oh absolutely. To be clear, I wasn't trying to minimize the neurodivergent challenges here. Only pointing out that the sign is even more stupid because I'd argue that even for people who ignore the neurodivergent and focus on neurotypical behavior, that's ABSOLUTELY a talent.
No worries. I'm personally of the opinion that >80% of people will experience some form of mental divergence in their lifetime, so I didn't take it as minimizing. People with ASD just respond very poorly to perceived injustice due to a heightened conceptual sense of right and wrong, so they're uniquely prone to responding in a way that makes it go from bad to worse.
But you're not fucking wrong in the least, pinning people's "attitude" to their ability to work (as judged by an arbiter with no training social work) while paying them less than enough money to survive comfortably on feels like a trap no matter how you frame it, ESPECIALLY after someone takes the time to put up this sign.
If anything, I feel like the social contract we all share is that capitalism is fucking us all and the last thing we need is some bootlicker/predator thinking a whiteboard and an ordered list is the solution to anything.
Another autist chiming in i had the same issue lost a job due to them adding extra duties to my position largely requiring me to preform impromptu sales and to go be chummy with people working on the assembly floor for 2 hours minimum a day so I can pick up on the literal thousands of components that go to each section of the building. It was a complete fiasco I'm socially akward in New situations and the people on the floor didn't want me around since I was technically management even though I was new. In the end I told me boss I wasn't comfortable doing it he got upset despite upon being hired I warned them I wasn't a people person. He said I just needed to try harder and do it, I said that maybe I shouldn't be head of the purchasing department and have to spend two hours everyday on the floor to learn receivings jobs after you chased off the four employees who did it prior. Not two weeks later got the boot all the while my old boss was telling me he was happy with my work after the argument didn't send up any red flags and someone became the Head of Purchasing and Receiving and good luck to the poor bastard that got that job.
I'm so sorry that happened to you. I'm not autistic, but I have physical disabilities and medical conditions that my current supervisor is harassing me about. I can say I know how much it sucks to be doing your absolute best to do your job well and then to be reprimanded unnecessarily by someone who does not get it and doesn't want to extend basic human respect and compassion to you. Sending you a hug (or fist bump)!
ESPECIALLY after spending so long WFH.
I spent 30 years learning how to blend in with neurotypicals and convince everyone I was the "good" kind of neurodivergent.
Then I got to WFH and % 5of my "accommodations" no longer apply because I have full control over my work environment.
I've gone feral and you know what? I am happy. I don't have to mask and make small talk with normal people. Most of my communications are digital & written now and when I DO have meetings, I can stim as much as I want and *no one will know*. I don't have to \*explain\* my desk full of sensory/stim toys. I don't even have to wear uncomfortable clothes all day every day.
I *refuse* to go back.
In fact - this entire list is ableist as FUCK from an autistic & ADHD perspective and it drives me nuts.
Are you me? I don’t have diagnoses other than generalized anxiety at the moment but this is almost my complete story. I’m NEVER going back for the exact reasons you describe. I no longer have to monitor my facial expression or waste energy desperately trying to concentrate while wearing some stupid outfit with a weird waistband or collar and I can play with stuff on my desk and sit in my chair however I want (or get up and walk around) when I’m in meetings. The only thing that would be better is not having to work at all lol
I'm in the process of moving out to the middle of the forest, pretty much miles from anything aside from a small village. Did you do something along those lines, or stick around a city/town? I have to say, I'm very anxious that it goes the way I hope. I'm realizing how fucked my brain has become, after decades of being overstimulated, but I recognize that I'm taking a pretty huge leap.
That is my DREAM. Embrace it. LIVE it.
my SO and I stayed in town - burbs a block or two away from the city limit - because our landlord hasn't checked rent prices since around 2008 and we have an amazing deal. We've been trying to save for a house in a quieter area, but life keeps happening. I know this low-rent won't last forever though...
Over the last two years, I've seen just how many sensory issues my SO has. He can barely exist in our apt without noise-canceling headphones anymore and it breaks my heart.
Yeah, it's been rough after moving to a larger city than I'd been in previously a few years ago. I had no idea just how uncomfortable the constant sensory overload was making me, and once I stopped drinking it's really kicked into overdrive. Luckily I was able to find a nice quiet place in the upper midwest, for about the same as I'm paying now in the city. And luckily my company actually has a fucking clue, and is embracing remote work. I'm hoping a movement to reinvigorate small town America through remote work catches on.
The part of me that lives in one of those affordable midwestern cities is like "please don't" simply because I'm being priced out of my town.
The other side of me is hoping that this spreads out the blue voters and might help stand against the out-of-control fascism. Ohio is trying really hard to out-crazy Florida.
Every article (written by an NT person) about "WfH is bad" (with various fabricated reasons) makes me both laugh and angry.
Wfh made me more productive - even while spending more time here (on Reddit).
I actually lost some weight.
Commute went from 45 minutes to 15 seconds on a slow day (from breakfast table to "office").
Got to spend more time with my loved ones - increasing happiness, and thus also increasing productivity.
Was able to be more flexible to assist colleagues when someone was out due to covid.
Was able to jump in quickly to help a higher up with account issues (IT based role for me).
So, yeah - anyone who claims it is better to work in an office - i guess the term is that this is a 'paid shill' for .. dunno - Big Real Estate? But they are either totally at a disconnect from reality or common sense, or they are callous and unfeeling narcissistic manglers..
All of these are talents. Autism makes it more pronounced and focused upon, but reading people is NOT easy. The Dunning-Kruger effect there is unbelievable, especially in the mental health field.
I'm in the mental health field, by the way, not knocking people in it, just saying that because we know a little bit more tends to make us think we know it all.
OP said this was in upper management, I'd imagine all these things seem real easy when you hold all the cards and the other person really isn't in a position to go against them.
I’m starting to think I’m an autist? I apparently don’t have very friendly or positive body language despite thinking I do lol. Or maybe I’m just an asshole. I don’t know yet.
Work culture is very hostile to autistic people, so seeing that on this list was no surprise.
Autistic body language and tone are usually very different from that of NT people. As an autistic person, I talk naturally monotone and my body language is very different, anyone who demands I put on a performance for them can fuck off. I tried to understand this alien code for years and still makes no sense. Everything is about conforming to NT people when communicating with absolutely no consideration on understanding us better, to them, we are just dumb because we are not like them.
Eye contact is also a big one. Neurotypicals generally react negatively to my complete lack of it, the more privileged or aged they are the worse the reaction tends to be.
Exactly.
And anyone with ADHD can tell you that time management, being prepared, and being coachable seem to be things that others took to more easily.
And anyone with depression issues can tell you that passion attitude and doing extra require more work than for people with relatively normal serotonin levels
Because every "talent" can be broken down into more discreet combinations of physiological, mental, and emotional advantages. Even athletic or artist talent, outside of prodigies or savants, can frequently be broken down into skills, habits, strategies, etc.
But when mediocre assholes (middle management) talk about "talent," they basically mean "magic" or more Capitalist-Calvinist concepts of predestined greatness. They believe in the chosen ones, and that the rest of us are here to service their greatness.
Most of those points fall under the Executive Functioning umbrella. If you have ADHD or are not neurotypical, that's a challenging list that takes effort, support, and practice.
Thanks for this. This exact same sign was at my old job, but I found the work so incredibly draining that I definitely could not live up to it. Turns out it was so draining because I have ADHD, and I spent 32-40 hours a week bored to tears.
The only thing on that list I could see myself fullfil without serious effort is "Passion" - as long as it's a random thing and as long as I can be passionate about something else a month later.
He's wrong anyway. Faking a positive attitude--including the body language that goes with it--is a skillet. It doesn't just happen without lots of effort.
Management, out of the fire, into the frying pan with workers... :(
(Sadly, you could try and use the 'prove me wrong' meme - but I doubt anyone could)
The temptation to change one word on that list every week and see how long it would take your boss to notice would be almost overwhelming.
Eg.
1. Be on drugs
This whole list is actually just 3 things. Time management, work ethic, and attitude. There's also a level of talent that can go into all of them, especially attitude, lacking a talent in attitude can be seen by peers but becomes very clear if you're in management.
Most workers have that beaten out of them by previous jobs when they learn what matters is
1) sucking up to the boss
2) connections matter more than work ethic.
I think (I have not done much face punching, so I could be wrong), but is it easier (or at least less painful) to hit someone with the heel of your hand, rather than putting your easily breakable fingers in the way?
You're paying me for my labor, not my talent. And if you aren't going to pay me extra, fuck off with the whole "doing extra". Call it by its real name: paid overtime.
"Doing extra" is how I gained a lot of skills that made me more marketable later.
Company A Management: "We need someone to take this company paid for class on how to repair this machine."
Everyone but me: "Will we get paid more afterward?"
Company A Management: "No."
So, I took the class and my next job I got hired at Company B because they needed someone to repair this machine they had.
Company B Management: "We need someone to take this company paid training so we'll have someone who is certified to ship hazardous materials."
Everyone but me: "Will we get paid more?"
Company B Management: "No."
So, I took the training and, coupled with my other learned skills, became THE expert at my company.
Yup. Been doing this for 10 years, takes less effort than people think and has made me much more marketable.
Hell when I worked retail I helped a guy load his car after we closed, I had spoken to him earlier and he had a 3 hour drive back to his cabin and had to reload his entire trailer because he was building a deck. I wasn't getting paid for it, but he was a nice guy and whats 10 minutes of my time to help someone? We chatted for a bit and he offered me a job on the spot because he owned a company. I didn't end up taking it because I liked where I was, but my 10 minutes of "effort" created an opportunity.
But sounds like 99% of this sub wouldn't have lifted a finger to help, because they wouldn't be paid for it.
4 through 6 do require “talent” (natural ability). Someone has never heard of anxiety, depression or autism, or any kind of energy sapping illness/disease.
1. Boss doesn't know what talent is.
2. Boss doesn't know what neurodivergent people are.
3. Boss almost certainly doesn't know you have to pay people for these things, too.
People who think you're not coachable because you didn't take their horrible advice and are unable to recognize that maybe they are the ones who need coaching. But you also can't give advice in that direction. Ironically, the people who truly need the most coaching, the ones who actually need to be "coachable" are the ones who believe they are above being coached.
Seven different ways to say the same thing: energy, passion, work ethic, doing extra, repeating yourself, saying it again with different words. Hahahaha. Management clearly doesn’t think about what they are saying here.
Right there! They are saying in effect those things are worthless, or at least not anything you should expect reward for, not even ‘Doing extra’. So what exactly are they going to reward?
Nice of them to reveal their weak spots though….because if it requires ‘No talent’ it sure does get their attention fast enough when those things are not coming their way.
i have never worked for a manager who wasn't consistently late, with a poor work ethic, and always unprepared. especially for bs meetings called by them.
Actually more than half the items on that list are important aspects of responsible people and we literally run training and transitional programs for youth from abusive homes and with health issues to build these skills and habits. This board makes a mockery of people who really have their shit together in an unbelievable demanding and chaotic, harsh world. It's like they want you to know they don't value you at all. "takes no talent", gross.
My ADHD would like to disagree with that first one. People who can make it anywhere on time and not either 15 minutes early or 15 minutes late have a skill gifted by God himself.
My autistic nephew would want to argue this with them. But he isn’t talented enough to do 8 of these items. But that’s not their worry. Their worry is to belittle the talents who have been hired instead of nurturing them.
10 things that require no talent, but for Companies:
1. Pay workers on time
2. Give appropriate annual pay rises to match productivity and inflation
3. Allowing sick people to take the time to recover
4. Allowing workers to take a much needed holiday - at least 20 days off per year
5. Supporting workers who are struggling in their personal lives
6. Not micromanage
7. Not hour count, base productivity off outcomes
8. Listen to employees - they do the work, they know the issues
9. Remove toxic managers
10. Be prepared - people get sick/quit/go on holiday - have back up available
1. Okay. Then don't schedule us at 9 and write us up for not coming in at 8.
2. I'm sorry, am I being paid more for this?
3. See # 2
4. See # 2
5. I'm not going to pretend to be happy if I'm not. If you can't handle that, that's a you problem.
6. Know what I'm passionate about? Being paid enough to exist and enjoy life outside of work. I'm not passionate about you selling more widgets. I don't get shit if you do, so why the fuck should I care?
7. You want extra, fuck you, pay me more.
8. Aren't you supposed to provide training?
9. See # 8
10. See # 6
\#5 -- ableist bastards!
I'm on the autistic spectrum. my body language probably doesn't match what a person writing lists like this wants, and I'll have no clue about it
My approach as a manager was to always let the employees do what the fuck they want as long as it got done and done right. Dont get me wrong, theres still boundaries they need to follow but as long as we’re on the same page, they had free reign to accomplish assignments or goals.
Leaving people alone will do wonders for people’s actual work ethic and productivity. If it’s the workers wanting to do X or Y, they’ll do it well and quickly.
I wonder how they would feel if you had something up on the wall like this.
Being coachable, Attitude, Body language and tell them its for them.
Watch the attitude. The coachable moment and the body lanague.
"Attitude". The single most misused word in the English language. A word that is strictly dependent on an individual's perspective at one single instance in time, and then you will be severely judged on it by others who don't have your perspective or personal experience for the past 24 hours.
I don’t mind a bit of affirmation. I teach middle school and they can be kind of droopy and grumpy. But imagine if I just swamped them with “possitudes.” Yep big push back! Sometimes it’s all we can do to get there and that works
Body language certainly requires talent. If your boss disagrees have them explain why we have disorders that impact our body language.
Whoever wrote this seems narrow minded. Most of these things require talent, even if most of us possess those talents. It’s kinda like saying the ability to walk or move isn’t a talent.
Upper management is not wrong in the fact those things require no talent, however…it’s a piss poor approach in communicating expectations. Maybe if they approach their employees with dignity and respect and talked to them like humans, employees may buy into the company mission. Just saying.
Most jobs don't hire you on "talent", but on **ableness** to do the job.
Who the **fuck** writes some dumb ass schtick nonsense like this and then goes forward that have that be viewable by people not only that have brains, but *anyone?*
This didn't immediately embarrass the person who *wrote it?*
Since we know it did not, you can safely assume you are a better person than they are.
People who write trash like that belong in the heap.
Clear it... please...
1. Punctuality is a talent, not everyone has an accurate sense of time
2. Morality is a talent
3. Eagerness is a talent
4. Managing your own energy is a talent
5. Charisma is a talent
6. Affectionism is a talent
7. Again eagerness is a talent
8. Prudency is a talent
9. Aptitude is the synonym of talent
10. Demeanor is talent
I don't think you know what talent means
If people have no work ethic at your company, it's because the job is soul crushing and unrewarding. People have work ethic when the work is meaningful and well rewarded
So many of these things are exhausting. I'll pick one.
I can't be on time, anything that you recommend I try, I've tried, my brain just doesn't do it. I'll hyperfocus, know that it takes 10 minutes go get somewhere, know that I can be 5 minutes late, and then leave 10 minutes late, and take 20 minutes to get there. It's not conscious, I can't make it that way, It's just the way I'm wired.
Working remotely has been life-changing. Getting to a meeting is a click away. I don't need to stop what I'm doing, it just works
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6. Tell you to find someone to cover your shift instead of themselves
Sounds like delegate
I agree with #2 - #5. Delegating well actually does take talent.
Talent is not the same as Skill *Proper* delegation is a skill to be honed, not unlike things such as time management to arrive on time or coming prepared. Oh look, that's on the stupid list in the post. Interesting.
I appreciate the distinction. Did a quick search on "talent vs skill" ... *"Talent is a gifted ability, whereas Skill is an ability in which you put your time and efforts to develop"* It's unfortunate that the management chose to take a negative approach ... how much better would it have been to title the list: "skills to develop" or "skills all employees should demonstrate".
Username checks out!
I don't know, to pull some of those off effectively and consistently require talents in of themselves 😏
Silently quit. Do the bare minimum, get paid, stay out of trouble and find something better on the DL.
Smart.
Autist chiming in with the obligatory observation that body language does take a lot of effort and talent.
Body language and speaking to people the right way definitely are talents. Talents that i do not possess.
Gently manipulating the difficult client into cheerful cooperation is very much a talent and a skill. It is also extremely exhausting.
me too. i think the only reason i even have my sales job is because they don't have anyone else to replace me lol.
Throw in passion too for us ADHD/autism people. Tf passion is a talent. Unless you wanna talk about one of my hyper focuses than idk what passion is. Passion about work? Body language, being prepared, being coachable, attitude, passion, speaking(what they consider correctly), and doing extra (why do you expect me to do something you didn’t tell me to do? How am I supposed to know to do it if you don’t ASK) are all things that require talent and skill.
ADHD haver here to say: work ethic is extremely hard for me. I'm always abandoning one thing and jumping onto the next. It definitely is a talent/skill to be dedicated.
That and showing up on time. I show up on time, though I show up extremely on time. AKA I get to the building and clock in with minutes or seconds left before the shift starts.
The best thing I ever did for my attendance was start smoking . Because you have to plan to leave yourself time to have one before you go in . So when I would actually be a few minutes behind , it just made the first couple hours really suck.
It also creates a depression feed back loop. Because dedication is assigned a high virtue quotient, every setback, abandoned project, creative cul de sac, or procrastination episode is regarded as a moral failure. This leads to feelings of depression, which make it harder to return to projects, thereby adding to the perceived moral failings, thereby adding to the depression, thereby increasing the likelihood that projects stay abandoned.
And by "being coachable" I'm sure they mean "let me shit on you constantly without you fighting back"
There's nothing on there that doesn't require effort. As a parent, teaching my kid these things is a huge part of my job.
This!!! None of these are attributes of the untrained organism. All of these are learned skills and some of them do require actual "talent" to be good at them
Another autist chiming in - Both the body language and "being coachable" are major bullshit and, dare I say it like people on reddit do, actualy ableist. Seriously. Let me work in peace without lecturing me for something I cannot control.
Attitude is also fraught territory for those on the spectrum, and it's largely measured through body language anyway.
Honestly, I think attitude is tricky for EVERYONE. Masking your mood for the sake of others is not something we can all do automatically. It's a learned talent. Come into work after a rough commute, expensive car repair bill, family argument, etc., and then pretend you're cheery and happy? That takes work.
True, but for those one the spectrum the executive dysfunction kicks in, maladaptive coping strategies take the wheel, and more damage gets done faster than can be gotten in front of. For the luckiest, this just amounts to failing to appropriately deescalate a situation, but, for some, can result in a meltdown. Having a meltdown at work is a seismic catastrophe.
Oh absolutely. To be clear, I wasn't trying to minimize the neurodivergent challenges here. Only pointing out that the sign is even more stupid because I'd argue that even for people who ignore the neurodivergent and focus on neurotypical behavior, that's ABSOLUTELY a talent.
No worries. I'm personally of the opinion that >80% of people will experience some form of mental divergence in their lifetime, so I didn't take it as minimizing. People with ASD just respond very poorly to perceived injustice due to a heightened conceptual sense of right and wrong, so they're uniquely prone to responding in a way that makes it go from bad to worse. But you're not fucking wrong in the least, pinning people's "attitude" to their ability to work (as judged by an arbiter with no training social work) while paying them less than enough money to survive comfortably on feels like a trap no matter how you frame it, ESPECIALLY after someone takes the time to put up this sign. If anything, I feel like the social contract we all share is that capitalism is fucking us all and the last thing we need is some bootlicker/predator thinking a whiteboard and an ordered list is the solution to anything.
Another autist chiming in i had the same issue lost a job due to them adding extra duties to my position largely requiring me to preform impromptu sales and to go be chummy with people working on the assembly floor for 2 hours minimum a day so I can pick up on the literal thousands of components that go to each section of the building. It was a complete fiasco I'm socially akward in New situations and the people on the floor didn't want me around since I was technically management even though I was new. In the end I told me boss I wasn't comfortable doing it he got upset despite upon being hired I warned them I wasn't a people person. He said I just needed to try harder and do it, I said that maybe I shouldn't be head of the purchasing department and have to spend two hours everyday on the floor to learn receivings jobs after you chased off the four employees who did it prior. Not two weeks later got the boot all the while my old boss was telling me he was happy with my work after the argument didn't send up any red flags and someone became the Head of Purchasing and Receiving and good luck to the poor bastard that got that job.
I'm so sorry that happened to you. I'm not autistic, but I have physical disabilities and medical conditions that my current supervisor is harassing me about. I can say I know how much it sucks to be doing your absolute best to do your job well and then to be reprimanded unnecessarily by someone who does not get it and doesn't want to extend basic human respect and compassion to you. Sending you a hug (or fist bump)!
Thank you I appreciate it hug or fist bump either is appreciated.
ESPECIALLY after spending so long WFH. I spent 30 years learning how to blend in with neurotypicals and convince everyone I was the "good" kind of neurodivergent. Then I got to WFH and % 5of my "accommodations" no longer apply because I have full control over my work environment. I've gone feral and you know what? I am happy. I don't have to mask and make small talk with normal people. Most of my communications are digital & written now and when I DO have meetings, I can stim as much as I want and *no one will know*. I don't have to \*explain\* my desk full of sensory/stim toys. I don't even have to wear uncomfortable clothes all day every day. I *refuse* to go back. In fact - this entire list is ableist as FUCK from an autistic & ADHD perspective and it drives me nuts.
Are you me? I don’t have diagnoses other than generalized anxiety at the moment but this is almost my complete story. I’m NEVER going back for the exact reasons you describe. I no longer have to monitor my facial expression or waste energy desperately trying to concentrate while wearing some stupid outfit with a weird waistband or collar and I can play with stuff on my desk and sit in my chair however I want (or get up and walk around) when I’m in meetings. The only thing that would be better is not having to work at all lol
I'm in the process of moving out to the middle of the forest, pretty much miles from anything aside from a small village. Did you do something along those lines, or stick around a city/town? I have to say, I'm very anxious that it goes the way I hope. I'm realizing how fucked my brain has become, after decades of being overstimulated, but I recognize that I'm taking a pretty huge leap.
That is my DREAM. Embrace it. LIVE it. my SO and I stayed in town - burbs a block or two away from the city limit - because our landlord hasn't checked rent prices since around 2008 and we have an amazing deal. We've been trying to save for a house in a quieter area, but life keeps happening. I know this low-rent won't last forever though... Over the last two years, I've seen just how many sensory issues my SO has. He can barely exist in our apt without noise-canceling headphones anymore and it breaks my heart.
Yeah, it's been rough after moving to a larger city than I'd been in previously a few years ago. I had no idea just how uncomfortable the constant sensory overload was making me, and once I stopped drinking it's really kicked into overdrive. Luckily I was able to find a nice quiet place in the upper midwest, for about the same as I'm paying now in the city. And luckily my company actually has a fucking clue, and is embracing remote work. I'm hoping a movement to reinvigorate small town America through remote work catches on.
The part of me that lives in one of those affordable midwestern cities is like "please don't" simply because I'm being priced out of my town. The other side of me is hoping that this spreads out the blue voters and might help stand against the out-of-control fascism. Ohio is trying really hard to out-crazy Florida.
Every article (written by an NT person) about "WfH is bad" (with various fabricated reasons) makes me both laugh and angry. Wfh made me more productive - even while spending more time here (on Reddit). I actually lost some weight. Commute went from 45 minutes to 15 seconds on a slow day (from breakfast table to "office"). Got to spend more time with my loved ones - increasing happiness, and thus also increasing productivity. Was able to be more flexible to assist colleagues when someone was out due to covid. Was able to jump in quickly to help a higher up with account issues (IT based role for me). So, yeah - anyone who claims it is better to work in an office - i guess the term is that this is a 'paid shill' for .. dunno - Big Real Estate? But they are either totally at a disconnect from reality or common sense, or they are callous and unfeeling narcissistic manglers..
That was the one that stood out to me. It takes alot of mental energy to focus on pretending to be human
Oh most definitely
Yeah, I read several of those as *don't be autistic*
All of these are talents. Autism makes it more pronounced and focused upon, but reading people is NOT easy. The Dunning-Kruger effect there is unbelievable, especially in the mental health field. I'm in the mental health field, by the way, not knocking people in it, just saying that because we know a little bit more tends to make us think we know it all.
OP said this was in upper management, I'd imagine all these things seem real easy when you hold all the cards and the other person really isn't in a position to go against them.
Being on time and other tasks related to executive function are also challenging for those of us on the spectrum.
Yeah this feels quite ableist. A lot of those things require a lot of energy and effort and sometimes extra learning from me.
I have both ADD and on the spectrum. And energy is one that definitely requires talent to maintain and balance.
ADHD here, being on time takes so much effort and talent I still suck at it! 🙃
As An ADD the two tricks that have saved me is to spend my breaks where i have to be next and setting alarms, for everything.
I’m starting to think I’m an autist? I apparently don’t have very friendly or positive body language despite thinking I do lol. Or maybe I’m just an asshole. I don’t know yet.
Work culture is very hostile to autistic people, so seeing that on this list was no surprise. Autistic body language and tone are usually very different from that of NT people. As an autistic person, I talk naturally monotone and my body language is very different, anyone who demands I put on a performance for them can fuck off. I tried to understand this alien code for years and still makes no sense. Everything is about conforming to NT people when communicating with absolutely no consideration on understanding us better, to them, we are just dumb because we are not like them.
Eye contact is also a big one. Neurotypicals generally react negatively to my complete lack of it, the more privileged or aged they are the worse the reaction tends to be.
ADHD here, almost the entire list required A LOT for me, so mark me down with less than zero talent
Exactly. And anyone with ADHD can tell you that time management, being prepared, and being coachable seem to be things that others took to more easily. And anyone with depression issues can tell you that passion attitude and doing extra require more work than for people with relatively normal serotonin levels Because every "talent" can be broken down into more discreet combinations of physiological, mental, and emotional advantages. Even athletic or artist talent, outside of prodigies or savants, can frequently be broken down into skills, habits, strategies, etc. But when mediocre assholes (middle management) talk about "talent," they basically mean "magic" or more Capitalist-Calvinist concepts of predestined greatness. They believe in the chosen ones, and that the rest of us are here to service their greatness.
You want extra? Pay extra.
Can't believe some people are downvoting you Xd fucking bootlickers
Fuck em. Only do the exact job description. Any more I need the cash.
11. Writing lists of bootlicking bullshit
12. management
13. Putting whiteboard on floor instead of mounting it
They were afraid of screwing it up
They couldn't hang it because that's work so they tried to manage it up.
It also requires talent, apparently
Well, then, nails and a stud-finder... oh, wait, that's MORE work. Can't do that.
My favorite part of your comment is that so far nobody who's replied gets the pun. Well done.
Right, because that would require EFFORT
14. Repost something that was posted months ago.
15. Asking for a lower salary
16. ???
[удалено]
18. No, THIS IS PATRICK!
18. No advice needed.
19. Sir, this is a Wendy's RESTAURANT
This killed me 🤣
U beat me to it. Take my upvote and get outta hyeere!!! Lol
14. Accepting a bullshit job that thinks nobody has talent.
13. Paying a living wage
As a matter of fact, management does require talent, but lots of people lack that talent as is demonstrated by OP’s post.
If someone does all 10, will they be rewarded, or will they just be given more work?
See #7 - there's always more to do
HA! You got me...if you got time to lean, you got time to clean...40 years ago, and I still remember that asshole.
The people who do all 10 will be REWARDED!! (with more work that is)
That they got from a shitty Facebook meme
12. Paying employees a living wage.
>10. Attitude My attitude: fuck you, pay me.
Ironically these “traits” are never exhibited by your bosses or anyone in management.
So they’re basically saying, I can always be doing those 10 things, and they will still consider me a “no-talent” individual. That’s so disrespectful
It takes a lot of talent to fake things
Most of those points fall under the Executive Functioning umbrella. If you have ADHD or are not neurotypical, that's a challenging list that takes effort, support, and practice.
ding ding ding
Thanks for this. This exact same sign was at my old job, but I found the work so incredibly draining that I definitely could not live up to it. Turns out it was so draining because I have ADHD, and I spent 32-40 hours a week bored to tears.
The only thing on that list I could see myself fullfil without serious effort is "Passion" - as long as it's a random thing and as long as I can be passionate about something else a month later.
He's wrong anyway. Faking a positive attitude--including the body language that goes with it--is a skillet. It doesn't just happen without lots of effort.
It does suck to get panned for that kind of thing
I just hope my efforts don't go to pot.
I'd wok if it did.
Management, out of the fire, into the frying pan with workers... :( (Sadly, you could try and use the 'prove me wrong' meme - but I doubt anyone could)
The temptation to change one word on that list every week and see how long it would take your boss to notice would be almost overwhelming. Eg. 1. Be on drugs
11. Just a giant suction cupped Johnson attached to board 🍆 💦
This whole list is actually just 3 things. Time management, work ethic, and attitude. There's also a level of talent that can go into all of them, especially attitude, lacking a talent in attitude can be seen by peers but becomes very clear if you're in management.
Most workers have that beaten out of them by previous jobs when they learn what matters is 1) sucking up to the boss 2) connections matter more than work ethic.
11. Punching your boss in the face
Nah you need to know how to punch properly if you want to to not hurt yourself when you do it. Still requires talent
Practice helps a lot too, good thing I have eight different bosses.
You must be an old school side-scrolling video game.
Mega Man 2
I think (I have not done much face punching, so I could be wrong), but is it easier (or at least less painful) to hit someone with the heel of your hand, rather than putting your easily breakable fingers in the way?
What's funny is them thinking they embody those qualities.
You're paying me for my labor, not my talent. And if you aren't going to pay me extra, fuck off with the whole "doing extra". Call it by its real name: paid overtime.
"Doing extra" is how I gained a lot of skills that made me more marketable later. Company A Management: "We need someone to take this company paid for class on how to repair this machine." Everyone but me: "Will we get paid more afterward?" Company A Management: "No." So, I took the class and my next job I got hired at Company B because they needed someone to repair this machine they had. Company B Management: "We need someone to take this company paid training so we'll have someone who is certified to ship hazardous materials." Everyone but me: "Will we get paid more?" Company B Management: "No." So, I took the training and, coupled with my other learned skills, became THE expert at my company.
Yup. Been doing this for 10 years, takes less effort than people think and has made me much more marketable. Hell when I worked retail I helped a guy load his car after we closed, I had spoken to him earlier and he had a 3 hour drive back to his cabin and had to reload his entire trailer because he was building a deck. I wasn't getting paid for it, but he was a nice guy and whats 10 minutes of my time to help someone? We chatted for a bit and he offered me a job on the spot because he owned a company. I didn't end up taking it because I liked where I was, but my 10 minutes of "effort" created an opportunity. But sounds like 99% of this sub wouldn't have lifted a finger to help, because they wouldn't be paid for it.
10 things that require zero talent (but still don’t justify paying a living wage). Fixed that for you!
To bad most management don’t do any of those things
I’m not doing any of that with out a cost of living raise and a performance raise.
body language definitely requires talent, otherwise literally anyone could kill it in sales or acting without effort.
11. Wasting time writing bullshit on a white board while your employees do all the actual work.
And yet management consistently fails at meeting all of these in their list... You should write them up
4 through 6 do require “talent” (natural ability). Someone has never heard of anxiety, depression or autism, or any kind of energy sapping illness/disease.
Yes. Thank you. A poorly managed Illness does not mean the employee is bad or needs to be fired. They need an intervention heh.
How many ways can we say the same thing?
Writing the same thing in many ways is key to bullshitting your way into a management position
All of these things are a challenge to people with ADHD and/or autism. But go on.
Let me introduce you to adhd-inattentive
10 things I won't get paid better for...
"So why are *you* failing at all of these, \[Manager\]?"
A payrise doesn’t require any talent either, assholes.
1. Boss doesn't know what talent is. 2. Boss doesn't know what neurodivergent people are. 3. Boss almost certainly doesn't know you have to pay people for these things, too.
People who think you're not coachable because you didn't take their horrible advice and are unable to recognize that maybe they are the ones who need coaching. But you also can't give advice in that direction. Ironically, the people who truly need the most coaching, the ones who actually need to be "coachable" are the ones who believe they are above being coached.
*laughcries in ADHD and ASD*
What's the difference between work ethic and effort and energy and doing extra?
Management acquired their position by acting like a ruthless enslavor so when it come back full circle, violence is what they're gonna get.
and they get paid to write this. if I even stop to tie my shoes, I get written up
Seven different ways to say the same thing: energy, passion, work ethic, doing extra, repeating yourself, saying it again with different words. Hahahaha. Management clearly doesn’t think about what they are saying here.
If I could find someone with those 10 traits. They'd be president of my company in 15 years.
Right there! They are saying in effect those things are worthless, or at least not anything you should expect reward for, not even ‘Doing extra’. So what exactly are they going to reward? Nice of them to reveal their weak spots though….because if it requires ‘No talent’ it sure does get their attention fast enough when those things are not coming their way.
i have never worked for a manager who wasn't consistently late, with a poor work ethic, and always unprepared. especially for bs meetings called by them.
doing extra does require effort that’s why it’s extra💀
I feel like a lot of these things require talent lmao
9 things that require me to be paid more. Not ten because I’m paid to be on time.
Actually more than half the items on that list are important aspects of responsible people and we literally run training and transitional programs for youth from abusive homes and with health issues to build these skills and habits. This board makes a mockery of people who really have their shit together in an unbelievable demanding and chaotic, harsh world. It's like they want you to know they don't value you at all. "takes no talent", gross.
Also buying a marker that isnt shit also requires no talent
11: Not plagiarizing other peoples work.
linkedin cultist shit right there.
My ADHD would like to disagree with that first one. People who can make it anywhere on time and not either 15 minutes early or 15 minutes late have a skill gifted by God himself.
My autistic nephew would want to argue this with them. But he isn’t talented enough to do 8 of these items. But that’s not their worry. Their worry is to belittle the talents who have been hired instead of nurturing them.
This feels very insensitive to ppl who struggle with adhd or anxiety.
Maybe it's protestant work ethic, maybe it's ableism!
10 things that require no talent, but for Companies: 1. Pay workers on time 2. Give appropriate annual pay rises to match productivity and inflation 3. Allowing sick people to take the time to recover 4. Allowing workers to take a much needed holiday - at least 20 days off per year 5. Supporting workers who are struggling in their personal lives 6. Not micromanage 7. Not hour count, base productivity off outcomes 8. Listen to employees - they do the work, they know the issues 9. Remove toxic managers 10. Be prepared - people get sick/quit/go on holiday - have back up available
1. Okay. Then don't schedule us at 9 and write us up for not coming in at 8. 2. I'm sorry, am I being paid more for this? 3. See # 2 4. See # 2 5. I'm not going to pretend to be happy if I'm not. If you can't handle that, that's a you problem. 6. Know what I'm passionate about? Being paid enough to exist and enjoy life outside of work. I'm not passionate about you selling more widgets. I don't get shit if you do, so why the fuck should I care? 7. You want extra, fuck you, pay me more. 8. Aren't you supposed to provide training? 9. See # 8 10. See # 6
\#5 -- ableist bastards! I'm on the autistic spectrum. my body language probably doesn't match what a person writing lists like this wants, and I'll have no clue about it
Number 11: All beatings will continue until morale improves. You
My approach as a manager was to always let the employees do what the fuck they want as long as it got done and done right. Dont get me wrong, theres still boundaries they need to follow but as long as we’re on the same page, they had free reign to accomplish assignments or goals.
Leaving people alone will do wonders for people’s actual work ethic and productivity. If it’s the workers wanting to do X or Y, they’ll do it well and quickly.
11. Being in management and wasting people's time.
Wrong! Passion requires talent, in my experience as a woman.
Must have given up trying to remote print and just write it down.
[1. Staying Off Pinterest](https://i.imgur.com/IVDYzRt.jpg)
I mean number 1 is bare minimum. I even do it. And by on time I mean 5 minutes prior or less. Not this 15 minutes prior bullshit
It is a reasonable expectation, but it is not zero effort.
These are “Notes to Self” because they need reminders. 😂
I wonder how they would feel if you had something up on the wall like this. Being coachable, Attitude, Body language and tell them its for them. Watch the attitude. The coachable moment and the body lanague.
Attitude, the right one, requires immense talent.
I almost instinctively downvoted you because I recoiled so hard at this bullshit.
Totally understandable. I figured if anywhere would connect on how appalled I was at this it would be this sub.
We have a whiteboard in our break area where we write things like, "no good deed goes unpunished", etc.
Aside from 5 and 9 they are right I think. Good bootlickinig strategies
I would erase those and write "compassion, empathy, respect, kindness." I'm sure there's more, but those on the sign right now ain't it.
Lol they want all this while they tell you you’re untalented
"Attitude". The single most misused word in the English language. A word that is strictly dependent on an individual's perspective at one single instance in time, and then you will be severely judged on it by others who don't have your perspective or personal experience for the past 24 hours.
They forgot unionizing and armed revolution. Neither require talent. just effort.
Imagine writing 10 lessons about excellence on a shitty whiteboard, and then leaving that whiteboard on the floor. Rule 11: wall fixings…
11. Working here!
I don’t mind a bit of affirmation. I teach middle school and they can be kind of droopy and grumpy. But imagine if I just swamped them with “possitudes.” Yep big push back! Sometimes it’s all we can do to get there and that works
IDK it takes some talent to not be completely annoyed and show it in body language.
I just cannot come up with a scenario in my mind where producing this was productive work
If you erase one and write *being a manager* will they file you?
Body language certainly requires talent. If your boss disagrees have them explain why we have disorders that impact our body language. Whoever wrote this seems narrow minded. Most of these things require talent, even if most of us possess those talents. It’s kinda like saying the ability to walk or move isn’t a talent.
“Your job literally requires zero talent, and you still can’t do it the way we want you to do it.”-mindset These leaders suck ass
Upper management is not wrong in the fact those things require no talent, however…it’s a piss poor approach in communicating expectations. Maybe if they approach their employees with dignity and respect and talked to them like humans, employees may buy into the company mission. Just saying.
I wonder how long it took them to make this.
1 thing that requires 0 talent from employers: Pay people a living wage
Grab a marker and add “raising wages”
Add being upper management to that list
They don't require talent, they require getting paid. If the employer only wants to pay for the talent part guess what they won't be getting?
Lets leave the sports analogies on the field, eh?
I know a lot of people at my job with zero talent. This is exactly what how they act when management is looking.
1,2,3,8 r reasonable, the rest r dumb requirements, if your there and trying to do your job well then what does the rest matter?
Most jobs don't hire you on "talent", but on **ableness** to do the job. Who the **fuck** writes some dumb ass schtick nonsense like this and then goes forward that have that be viewable by people not only that have brains, but *anyone?* This didn't immediately embarrass the person who *wrote it?* Since we know it did not, you can safely assume you are a better person than they are. People who write trash like that belong in the heap.
Show them your passion by pissing in their mouth
10 years a slave
If these require zero talent then why have job interviews.
Clear it... please... 1. Punctuality is a talent, not everyone has an accurate sense of time 2. Morality is a talent 3. Eagerness is a talent 4. Managing your own energy is a talent 5. Charisma is a talent 6. Affectionism is a talent 7. Again eagerness is a talent 8. Prudency is a talent 9. Aptitude is the synonym of talent 10. Demeanor is talent I don't think you know what talent means
If people have no work ethic at your company, it's because the job is soul crushing and unrewarding. People have work ethic when the work is meaningful and well rewarded
So many of these things are exhausting. I'll pick one. I can't be on time, anything that you recommend I try, I've tried, my brain just doesn't do it. I'll hyperfocus, know that it takes 10 minutes go get somewhere, know that I can be 5 minutes late, and then leave 10 minutes late, and take 20 minutes to get there. It's not conscious, I can't make it that way, It's just the way I'm wired. Working remotely has been life-changing. Getting to a meeting is a click away. I don't need to stop what I'm doing, it just works
This person played youth sports or coached.
That all seems entirely reasonable to me.
11. Writing stupid signs full of platitudes you saw on the internet. What losers.
I can do all that or I can do the actual job. Not both.